10/09/2011 Plaid Cymru Conference

Good morning and welcome to live coverage of the Plaid Cymru

conference in Llandudno. The leader has made his final speech, the race

Yes, a warm welcome to Venue Cymru, the last day of the Plaid Cymru

conference. It has been a mixed year, from the euphoria of the yes

vote in that referendum in March to just two months later, the party's

worst-ever performance in Assembly elections. Does the party needed

new direction? Stay with us for the next two hours. We will be watching

them all. Our political editor, Bethan powers. Is there a feeling

of a new chapter here? There is. You find quite often with these

conferences, you expect them to be very downbeat. But it has not been

like that. It is a party with a fight on its hand. But the seam up

for the fight. This is an opportunity for those who want to

see change, they are pushing for it. You see it on the conference floor.

You do not often see that at any conference, let alone Plaid Cymru

conferences. It is all about to be given a good shake, but they seem

to think that is no bad thing. let us go to the hall, and our team

there, John Stephenson will be guiding us through events within

the conference hall. As you say, there is a wind of change blowing

through the party, a new leader, a policy review. They hope these

amendments will form the basis of future success. Also with us, Mark

Hannaby who is down in the foyer, talking to delegates. The people in

the hall had just had the leadership candidates saying that

Plaid Cymru needs to broaden its appeal, extend its reach, be more

attractive to people if it is to move forward. I will catch up with

some delegates to hear how the party hopes to do that. We will be

back at mark shortly. We will hear that speech by Elin Jones as well.

Betsan Powys, the race has begun, but yesterday, quite an emotional

and personal speech? I thought he looked hugely relieved. You never

used to allow us to film in the morning of the speech, but

yesterday, he was quite different, he was quite relaxed. I thought it

was a look of relief. But his messages were very clear. We will

be -- we have to broaden our appeal, learn from mistakes. Do not rush

back into the heartlands. You number one aim has to be to get

back into Government. Do not turn into a party that goes back to

being what is regarded as a bit of a national movement, a pressure

group, a religious sect is the way he put it. We are a constitutional

political party and the aim of such a party has to be to govern, to be

in Government. Not everyone agrees, though. They have been Motion's

never to go into coalitions again. Everyone believed that any moment

now, she may be declared a candidate to succeed Ieuan Wyn

Jones. We are constitutional political party but politics in

Wales is about more than institutions and elections, it is

about campaigning. A message that was when they received in the hall.

We can argue, who would argue against that? But what does it

actually mean? What we have seen us lots of votes on logistical issues,

let us what to say we will not going to collision with the Tories,

let us vote is say we will not pay our licence fees because we are

concerned about the future of broadcasting and Wales. We have

seen party officials standing around and looking nervous. The one

on nuclear energy this morning, certainly they looked very nervous.

We will hear that nuclear debate as well, it was quite lively. In terms

of the runners, we will hear from Elin Jones, anybody else? Daffyd

Elis-Thomas is in the race. He has not sat behind a desk or a podium

and said, right, here I am and I am now a candidate. It does not work

like that in his case. But from now on, we mentioned him, as we do Elin

Jones, she is standing. Simon Thomas, I have had more than one

person say Simon Thomas and Elin Jones together. Quite a few people

talking about names who have only been in the Assembly for a bit

longer. But the big name all the time is Adam price. His effect on

this race, is he going to come back one day and stand? Definitely there

in the background. Thank you very much for now. We will speak to you

later. Throughout the morning, we will hear from most of those names.

Let us start with the speech of one of them, the former minister from

rural affairs, Elin Jones, who addressed the conference a few

hours to go. Good morning, conference.

Tomorrow, I'm sure we will all remember the evil attack ten years

ago on the United States, including the incredible demolition of the

two towers, the needless murder of ordinary people, going about their

everyday lives. And the beginning of that decade of needless wars

with thousands more losing their lives. In the weeks following the

9/11, the United States and the UK started to bomb Afghanistan. Plaid

Cymru stated their opposition to the bombing. The first elected

party in the country -- countries of Britain to do so. When the

political opinion was going in one direction on the, Plaid Cymru

showed the independence of mind to question the short-sighted military

response. I remember listening to the discussion that led to the

decision to opponents. A slight nervousness. Which when we decided

to go so contrary to the unanimous flow of opinion, there was fierce

opposition to play Cymru, but ten years afterwards, who was right to

question? We were. I remember how proud I was and that time of the

independence that was shown. This party as an interest beyond Wales.

Justice for people across the world is important to us and some of the

best powers of his party have dealt with issues that are far beyond the

boundaries. I was also pleased to listen this year on the floor of

the House of Commons giving support for military intervention in that -

- Libya. We are not a selfish and inward-looking party. We are a

reflection of a country and the people who have long taken an

interest in the welfare of people of countries are -- across the

world. We want the same freedom and they say justice for people in all

parts of the world. But there are other people who can fight foreign

causes. We are the only ones to fight for the cause of Wales and

even that the establishment of a democratic Parliament, the case of

Wales continues and the need for Plaid Cymru is as strong as ever.

Occasionally, I hear a long- standing member nostalgically

comment, this is not the same party I joined 40 years ago. No, it is

not. And thank God it is not! 40 years ago, when the Welsh nation

had women scantily-clad on the front page, proclaiming their

never-ending love for Plaid Cymru, that was 40 years ago, or when in

Kheredine de UN, there were more election posters than votes for

Plaid Cymru. -- Kheredine t M. Nor is it the same party I joined 20

years ago, when meat had made a major breakthrough and moved to

four elected members and the prospect of an elected Parliament

for Wales seemed a faraway dream. This party has changed and is

continuing to change, because Wales is changing. That is what we want,

we are the ones who do not want the status quo, we want change. So we

must embrace change ourselves. But there are so many changes in Plaid

Cymru. Our branding, are messaging, our name, are ways of working. Our

core beliefs have stayed the same. We want our country to be a free

and democratic nation and we want our people to have justice and

prosperity. Free, fair and flourishing. That was the aim 40

years ago and remains so today. Only a suggests kindly that we are

closer to realising our ambitions today. But they did talk to one

Plaid Cymru member earlier this week who was also a Christian, he

told me he believed into things, Heaven and independence. He did not

believe however that he would see either! I did not tell him that of

the two, he is more likely to see heaven and independence. Because

however, independence for our nation is not achieved by two Plaid

Cymru members saying it often enough or wishing for it hard

enough and then, hey presto, it happens. Independence is not forced

on the people of Wales by Plaid Cymru. It is denied the people of

Wales by the British Unionist Party. Sometimes, the people of Wales may

opt for the status quo, but sometimes they will decide they are

not well served by that status quo and opt for change. Other countries

are doing so. Wales has played some impressive football against two

other countries this week, Montenegro and England. Montenegro

hosted their own referendum in 2006 in favour of an independent state.

It has a national Parliament, is a member of the UN and a candidate

country for EU membership. England has no national Parliament, nor is

it a member of the EU or the UN. -- it could be said that Wales is more

The constitutional imbalance of the UK is unsustainable and a possible

Yes vote for Scottish independence will change the UK irrevocably.

There needs to be a constitutional and fiscal debate within the four

countries of the UK and more especially, between the four

countries of the UK. We need to consider options on how the four

countries can work together and work separately in the 21st century.

This should always be a close working relationship between those

four countries, whatever the constitutional settlement. The free

movement of people and trade, common currency and according to

Alex Salmond,, monarchy. It is not one glorious step to independence,

otherwise it would be a hell of a big step. We cannot just jump to

the final chapter, because the people of Wales are still reading

the book. To aim for our country's independence, and this is the last

time I will use the word in the speech, because by now I am sure

someone has started a word count of how many times I have mentioned it,

but to aim for independence is simple and straightforward. But it

We need to work to ensure more powers are transferred from

Westminster to Ensenda. Control of our police, broadcasting and

natural resources. Powers on responsibility must go hand in hand.

We are not obsessed with powers for Power's sake. We believe there is a

historical and the national legitimacy to Wales, but we also

believe that Wales would be better served by decisions affecting the

people of Wales being taken by people in Wales. Decisions close to

the people and while accountable to the people and more reflective of

the people. There is no doubt, and while I consider if there is any

doubt on not, I will have a drink of water. I have considered it and

there is no doubt. There is no doubt. That bit was not grit -- was

not scripted, by the way. There is no doubt that the number one

priority for Wales is the economy. There is change occurring in the

world economy. The bastions of the old economic order are all swaying

on precipices. What was seen as solid heavyweights are no longer

viewed as such. In wares, our businesses and communities stand

powerless in this uncertain world. The government has rejected a

fiscal stimulus to invigorate growth. The Welsh government is

equally resisting our call for a capital investment fund to

stimulate the economy. We went to see Welsh businesses flourish and

our economy grow. We need to be listening to the views of

businesses and need to champion their cause. But we also need more

government, fiscal and economic levers in Wales. After all, who

would do a better job in charge of our economic prospects? Danny

Alexander or Adam Price? As we aspire to further constitutional

reform and greater prosperity, what of Plaid Cymru itself? Rose needs a

healthy Plaid Cymru. Without the ambition, and to drive and has of

Plaid Cymru, nothing is achieved for this country. Sometimes, others

will have to live a change, but no other political party will seek all

drive changed. There are any ambition is power for Power's sake,

not power for changes sake. Elektra success for Plaid Cymru is crucial

in building Wales and to delivering change. We have stagnated of late.

At times we have failed to motivate ourselves but more importantly, we

have failed to motivate others to believe that we deserve to be more

than somebody else's afterthought. We have invested great

responsibility on Eurfyl ap Gwilym to shape our future and I look

forward to his work. One thing is clear. As a party and as

individuals and elected members within his party, we need to reach

out and listen to what more people in Wales. We know that so many

people are patriotic in Wales. We need to open our doors in wares to

more people, even if some of them are challenging to our comfort

zones. We need to have the debate with more people. Not only should

we be addressing the peace rally or the Language Valley or the picket

line or the farmers' union meeting, we need to be addressing the Ladies

Circle, the chambers of Trade and others. If people are ambitious for

themselves and their community, then Plaid Cymru is for them. Plaid

Cymru favours no language, no race, no place of birth. There is a place

in Plaid Cymru for the Welsh language activist, the Swansea

plumber or, as long as their cause is Wales. There is a place for the

soldier and the pacifist, as long as they cause is in Wales. Probably,

the most persuasive power I have seen on a doorstep canvassing was a

powerful mix of an ex soldier and a pacifist. The voters had no chance

with them on their doorstep. As Plaid Cymru members, we must resist

the just speaking to each other or to those fringe groups that will

seek our support to advance their cause, we have a cause of our own,

a country to create. As a few 1000 Plaid Cymru members, we cannot do

it alone, we need the majority of people to join in and become

involved, to make their cause Wales. Sometimes, we will advance the

cause of Wales from outside government and sometimes from

within government, but I have no doubt that it is best advanced from

within government, by the that is local government or Welsh

government. We achieved so much for the cause of the ways in the One

Wales government and we should never play that down. In that

government, this current Plaid Cymru leader became the Deputy

First Minister of Wales. The next Plaid Cymru leader must become the

First Minister. We cannot allow it Wales to become a one-party Labour

state. We cannot have 20 years of Carwyn Jones. We have had less than

two years and I am bored already. What is more worrying, I think

Carwyn Jones is thought also. And no wonder he needed a trip to break

his boredom to New Zealand. If he did something, he would not find

his role so monotonous. A man with such little ambition for Wales and

in the words of a not so famous Swansea poet, ambition is critical.

I can just picture him now, leaning heavily on the plastic the podium,

answering first Minister's Questions in the Assembly and

saying, no, thank you very much, I do not want to see broadcasting

devolved to Wales, I would much rather have that might -- nice Tory

responsible for switching cuts to the BBC and decimating S4C. This

their powers are not too sure what they are, so I will not ask for any.

But if they are offered, maybe we will see. It depends whether

Scotland get them and what Northern Ireland want. I may, I may be

bothered to ask for power was over a large gay energy prop jets, but

not too much, or -- large-scale energy projects. I believe that the

big wind farms in the valleys to that very nice Liberal Democrat MP.

I would not want my ministers to have to take difficult decisions.

But is much easier to let someone else to side and then I will stand

up for Wales. With a poster, and then I will stand up for Wales with

a big poster of meat, Carwyn Jones, standing up for Wales, behind me,

just to make the point. That is what he would say, not me. This is

what this Labour government is, it is a sham. They are my words. Their

mandate is to supposedly stand up for Wales, but they have neither

the power to do that and all the ambition to seek that power away

from those condemns who hold power. They have no programme of

government, only a legislative programme. Some of which is

commendable, other parts of which are questionable. They expect a law

to enforce local neighbouring authorities to appoint staff gently.

Five years in front of us of Carwyn Jones sitting down for Wales. Along

with four more years of the wreaking havoc on Wales. Where will

we be by 2016? We deserve much better. We have not been served

well by a century of Westminster government. We have been denied

proper investment to generate our economy and we are repeatedly

refused settlement for our services. We can be a so much more than the

poor, sick man of Europe. We cannot allow Labour to keep us there.

Other countries have climbed the prosperity ladder with the right

combination of tools for the job and political will. Our schools can

be better, our businesses can flourish, we can achieve far

greater energy and food self- sufficiency. Our people can live

healthier, their lives. We need to Plaid Cymru more than ever. It is

our responsibility, it is our responsibility not to let Wales

Elin Jones addressing the conference earlier this morning.

She joins us now. Along with party president Gil Evans. Think you for

joining us. I know the conference hall is waiting for your speech. We

will get through this very quickly. Elin Jones, playing independence

and bingo. How many times did you mention it? I was hoping someone

else would make the word count. What I said to the conference, it

is not a matter of how many times a Plaid Cymru member says the word

independence, it does not happen overnight. It is the people and

will decide on the future conference of Wales, it is not

Plaid Cymru who makes them decide that. But you know that people are

looking at the independence debate cheer this weekend. Whether you are

more out and out about it or not. You went out of your way to address

the issue. Do you think you failed to do that in recent years? I think

it is important that Plaid Cymru does not hide from the people of

Wales that are long-term ambition is for the people to decide that we

want to be an independent state because we think that dependency on

a Westminster government has not served as well. Independence could

serve as better. But does not happen overnight. We need to build

wares and we need a stronger obstructions, institutions in boats

and a stronger economy. We went, as Plaid Cymru, to work on that and to

work with the businesses on that. Is this the next leader of your

party? The nominations have not opened yet so obviously Elin Jones

is one of the candidates and I am sure we have a very interesting

time ahead. Did you like what she said? Yes. She is absolutely right.

She has summed up completely what the current position of the party

years. We do need to start looking at what independence will really

meal. -- Amin. For people outside Plaid Cymru who do not agree, they

will have no choice other than to look at what the implications are.

Events in Scotland will set the UK agenda for the next five years. We

have to look at where we fit into this whole pattern and make sure

that we are not left behind, as Scotland rose ahead towards

independence. We have to look at the facts and figures.

mentioned that a friend was on his bus pass and probably will not see

independence. In terms of a timescale, can you set when a tall

or was it a distant dream for the party and taking the people of

Wales along it, they will set the pace? It is the people of Wales

that set the pace. Plaid Cymru understand that. I think Plaid

Cymru needs to have the debate more honestly. You have not been honest

about it? I think what we need to do, we focus very clearly on

getting a legislative parliament and we have succeeded in doing that.

We voted unanimously throughout wears and it was great to see if

such strength and feeling towards a legislative parliament in Wales.

But we believe there are other powers that be to be devolved to

Wales, power was on a policing and broadcasting and control over our

natural resources. But there is such a lot for us to do to keep it

building our nation. We are ambitious foreign nation and we

went to be a fully fledged a nation in the world, not to put up

barriers, to break down barriers. To give Wales a voice and a

platform in the world. We have new nations having that advice. Monte

Negro only became a nation of five years ago. In order to influence,

you have to be in power. At what price? There is a debate going on

here this weekend about whether or not we should re-enter a coalition

with Carwyn Jones. You clearly do not want to give an your

impersonation of Carwyn Jones. Jill Evans, if the opportunity came,

would you urge the party to get back into power? Again, it is a

decision made by the members at the time. In principle? I think what we

need to do now is clearly established Plaid Cymru identity

and really have a clear message for the people of Wales. I think that

is something we are going to be talking about in the review in the

coming few months. From the conversations I have had with

members, what is clear is that there is absolute unity within the

party. People know where we want to go. We need to develop the ideas,

policies. We need to present our options to the people more clearly

than we have done. We need to take every opportunity to influence the

debate, to influence the constitution. In the Assembly, we

are looking to form a government Elin Jones, how will you be

different from the other candidates? What is your unique

selling point? A one Plaid Cymru to communicate all the people of Wales,

we are party that is ambitious for Wales and we want to see Wales as a

stronger nation. But all candidates say that. But to an extent, that is

what is great about the contest within the party, we do have unity

of purpose. It is just a matter of who you fancy? Significantly, any

other leadership contest, we are on the same political party. It is a

new period for our party and our country. How would you be different

to Ieuan Wyn Jones? We have worked well together as assembly members

and I was impressed by his chum of leadership. We have achieved so

much over the last ten years, more especially in Wales. If he has

achieved anything, he has shown the people of Wales that as a leader of

Plaid Cymru, he has been willing to put the interests of Wales before

his own personal, political interests, because she is the man

who decided not to become the First Minister of Wales when he had the

opportunity in 2007. He decided to become the Deputy First Minister in

a Labour an Plaid Cymru coalition to further the cause of wills and

to allow a referendum to make the Parliament for Wales this year.

That is his legacy. It is a new period, an exciting period for the

party. We have a new leader, a new Parliament, are assembly now has

parliamentary powers. I feel a real excitement from the members in the

conference. We are looking ahead. Thank you both very much. Jill

Evans, Elin Jones, thank you very much. We will hear from some other

candidates later. Let us go down to the foyer, to mark.

I am joined by two people who are very well placed to answer this

question of whether party goes from here, Hywel Williams and Helen Mary

Jones. I want to pick up, of your ideas, this notion that if you lock

out the Conservatives and say Plaid Cymru will not deal with the

Conservatives in a mess of the gunmen, that might help you are

literally? That is my cue, be debated at in conference yesterday

and took the decision we will revisit the issue when we have a

chance to look a more death on the way that has impacted, how much it

helps. I believe that while Labour can say in certain communities in

the valleys, but not just in the Valleys, if you vote for Plaid

Cymru, you risk -- having the Budget in wells run by Tories, we

are very clear that is why we lost this season we did not do well

anywhere across the south this time. I think the way to deal with that

is to rule out a coalition. If we do not rule out a coalition, Bebo

have to find another way of dealing with a problem. It will continue to

come back to us. -- we will have to find. What do you make of that,

Howell Williams? If you let the coalition, it might help you in

some seats, but it will give you problem when you are in negotiation

with Labour. We are party with many talented people, and we have a lot

to offer, as Carwyn Jones is finding out to his cost. That is

what we bring to the table, a lot of our own creative ideas and

vision for Wales. Thinking back to last time, it was very powerful in

Plaid Cymru's hand that Labour new you might have gone into coalition

with the Conservatives and the Lib Dems. It certainly was. We are in a

different situation now, we have a very dangerous, right wing

Conservative Government in London that people are very frightened off.

I worry about us constantly saying we will negotiate with whoever, I

want to beat Labour and the Conservatives in the ballot box. We

have to be confident enough to say, -- not to say, we will come second

or third. We need to beat them and do what the SNP has done and put

Labour out of Government in Wales and out through the front door.

While Labour can say a few bob for Plaid Cymru, you could get the

Tories, that will be a difficult thing to do. -- if you vote.

coalition question is one for every party of Wales. Ask the Liberals

what they think of their coalition and London. And ask what the right

wing Tories think of their marriage to the Lib Dems. But we are at the

Plaid Cymru Conference and you had your leader says it was imperative

you get back into Government. In the real-world, you are more likely

to getting by a coalition. Quite possibly, but Labour should no

ambition is to getting through the front door. By beating them. And in

the medium term, we have a prospect of doing that. If you look at the

agendas and ideas at this conference, you would not be

surprised to learn that we want to be in Government. Every political

party wants that, of course. Moving on from that notion of coalition,

some women on at the election last year. -- something went wrong.

is what the review is four and one of the positive things in the

months after May and leading up to the conference is the way members

have really engaged with the process of looking at what we need

to do next. We did not get our message is as sharp as we could

have done. The business of if you vote for Plaid Cymru, you could end

up with Tories in Government, that was a major factor. That is what

the new process is all about. One thing that is clear is that our

great strength as a party is our Grassmoor -- grassroots members.

One thing I need to do is re- energised those members and ensure

they feel it is their party, the decision has not made by a few

people in one room, but the way for it is decided by all of us together,

which is why I am standing as a lecturer for cheer. Some people

forget I won seats of Labour in the general election and we did that by

having lots of people at on the doorstep. We are local party and

the National Party, that is what we'd want to develop. Thank-you

both very much. Enjoy the conference.

One of the most hotly-contested debates in any Plaid Cymru

conference is the one about nuclear power. It happened this morning and

the party's official stance on the subject is to opposed the building

of any new power stations in Wales. Quite a tricky subject for the

party's leader, Ieuan Wyn Jones, who is also the AM for Anglesey.

This is how it went. In March this year, in the

aftermath of the earth quake and ceramic, -- ceramic, the people of

Japan it is the devastating accident. This happened just as the

industry was about so that the 25th anniversary of the Chernobyl

disaster and what they wanted to proclaim as a safe age of nuclear

power. But it all went wrong again. Saturday kilometre exclusion zone

was set up immediately, 170,000 people were evacuated from the area.

We do not yet know the full effects of the disaster, and we probably

never will. But we do know that the environment, health and food were

damaged and contaminated. I went to Chernobyl in 2006 to see for myself

what the after effects were and it was horrific. Miles and miles of

countryside that can never, ever be inhabited again. Houses left where

people had had to flee from the effects of radiation. We know that

in Wales, there is still over 300 farms and a movement restrictions

because of contamination. We had some discussion last year in

conference on nuclear power. And I know that there are many people who

have come round to the idea that nuclear was a better option than

coal in relation to climate change. But I know also that most of those

people have changed their minds again, because no nuclear power

station is zero risk, and when it goes wrong, it goes badly wrong. We

oppose nuclear power because it is dangerous, expensive and not carbon

free and we know the problems of waste. This motion calls for

investment in renewable energy. If you look at the current situation

on a European level, five times as much public funding is given to

nuclear research as to renewables and energy efficiency. In 2007-2013,

5 billion will go on nuclear and on renewables. Over half the UK budget

is spent on nuclear. That is actually less than 4% of the UK

energy needs. It is the same -- at the same amount of investment was

put into renewables, we would have a different picture and that is

where we need to create jobs. If you look around the world now,

China has suspended all building work on 25 reactors they were

building. Switzerland has stopped. India and South Korea have banned

nuclear power. Germany has shut down seven plants that were built

before 1980 and they are carrying out safety checks on the others.

Italy has announced a two-year ban on nuclear power after a referendum

and the people voted they did not want it. Fukushima was supposed to

be one of the safest stations earmarked that most safety-

conscious countries in the world, but to turn into a disaster. And if

you look at the facts, there are many serious incidents in all types

of nuclear power station and all reactor designs, all over the world,

every year. We do not hear about them, but it is happening. Among

the is for certain, these accidents, these incidents cannot be foreseen.

Plaid Cymru has sent out mixed messages on nuclear-power, people

are confused as to where we stand. But our policy, as the motion says,

has stayed the same. We oppose all new nuclear power stations and we

must say that now, loud and clear, that is what I won this conference

to do so that people understand clearly where Plaid Cymru stands on

this issue. What I want -- what are what this conference to do. So

please, support the motion and reject amendments to, 3 and 4. --

two, 3 and 4. Davide Ellis Thomas was be for the amendment. May I say

and are extremely disappointed that I have to come to the stage to

propose comments in favour of the amendments. And I am disappointed,

I will explain why in a moment. I will tell you one thing right at

the beginning. You can agree with every word that Gill says and vote

for every one of the amendments. You can agree with everything she

says and still vote in favour of the amendments, because the last

thing any of those amendments has done is try to change policy. Let

us look at some of them. Some of them are factual amendments.

Amendment one. Which states that in looking at the potential of ways, -

- ways, and they must say I was rather surprised to hear her say

she wanted to vote against amendment four. It is factually

correct say that the Government of the UK will hold an inspection of

nuclear installation. As far as amendment one is concerned, I think

everyone is in favour of that, with men than four, that is a factual

matter of simple fact. May we return then to amendment two.

Because that is probably the core of this discussion today. We must

accept this quite clearly this morning. There is at terribly

difficult situation, this situation is different from any other

constituency, apart from the one which has had a nuclear power

station. It is a difficult situation for us. It is a difficult

and serious situation because the economy of the island has been

weakened serious they during this last session. There are literally

hundreds of votes that have been lost in Holyhead and the

surrounding area. The only thing we say here is that however much we

hope the Government of Wales can make a decision concerning nuclear

power, however much we as a party say we object and that is the

official party policy, we are not the ones who decide whether there

will be a nuclear power station or not, and the UK Government has

already said that there will be no transfer to make decisions on such

issues by the Welsh Government. It is the London Government that the

sides. I know we do not like it, but that is the fact, the simple

Take it that they too intense to carry on, do we then say that at

the London government is going to build a nuclear power station, but

we are not going to fight in favour of local jobs? We're not going to

fight in favour of investment and a local economy care was mad we do

not want to see a company locally getting worked to build the

station? Is that what we are going to stay? If you reject the men

Elfyn Llwyd, that is what you're saying. We're just asking

conference to give us fair play. Of the London government decides to

carry on, let us say it is the people of the North West who can

benefit from that investment. Meyer say one of the saying? I apologise

for having to say this, but there are confused messages. There are no

confused messages. We are not asking Plaid Cymru to change its

policy, that is not the intention of this amendment. The intention of

this amendment is 12 this conference to allow the area to

benefit economically from a decision over which they have no

control. Let me tell you, in 1960, at that period, when the power

station was first built, we had this strong idea that we needed to

maximise local employment from the press and station. I do not want to

see that happen ever again. I want control over any new development

that happens in my constituency. Let me also say, in conclusion,

this perhaps is a more controversial point. With the men

and two, except, I hope, that conference is with us here, --

amendment two. I hope we do not have to adopt do that again. Let us

now except that is the situation. I accept that you need to consider

very carefully amend and three. What are the original management

says is, it the confirms that the Tote some objection of Plaid Cymru

to the consideration of any nuclear power station. That is our policy.

What the motion and goes on to say is that that conference calls,

firstly, for Plaid Cymru at all levels to officially oppose new

nuclear projects. But that puts me in an indigenous position. I would

ask you, please accept that that is Plaid Cymru's policy. I do not want

to change that policy. That was me personally, as the leader of Plaid

Cymru and as the local number in an impossible situation. I asked you,

therefore, please can Sidhu that very carefully. Except this is a

difficult situation. -- please consider that very carefully. But

there is no intention to change the policy. But please supporters to

insure the people of Anglesey have put the work, if the decision goes

the other way. I speak as the chair of the

Environment and sustainability committee of the National Assembly.

I and my colleague, Lord and wiggly and later Ieuan Wyn Jones and later

Elfyn Llwyd, except responsibility for the workers of the energy

industry and the nuclear industry specifically. You, therefore, are

asking me to break the promise of a lifetime, but I gave to the workers

of the nuclear industry, engineers, Crossman, many -- many of them from

old quarrying families, who have had three generations of workers,

or quality work, and employment. I am not willing to do that. I have a

responsibility as a former member of the union that I represented. I

have a responsibility to that union and I intend to stick to my

responsibility. It's -- it is very sad to have to note that this is

one of the few motions discussing any industry that higher have ever

seen it before the annual conference of Plaid Cymru that does

not mention a word about those Welsh people who wore a working

today in that industry and their future. There are over 600 people

in work will be working in 216, 25 miles to the south of year. Three

quarters of those people have the same postcode. If you do not living

at the North and it did not know where Llandudno is, that is the

North Wales postcode. They are local people. Some are contract

does, but they are local people. We have a responsibility towards the

�80 million expenditure that comes into the economy of the wider

airier. The same is true for the case of the the power station. By

support every word of that Ieuan Wyn Jones has said, but it is more

strange than that to me. One of the things I was asked to do within the

last year was to open the nuclear storage of medium strength. Because

we have to take the responsibility for the nuclear waste that we have

created in the territory of Wales. It is incorrect to say that there

will not be a nuclear waste in other places in Wales because we

have to take responsibility. As an environmentalist who supports the

Centre for alternative Technology since it has been established, I

know I have to take responsibility for the nuclear industry as it has

had developed in Wales. I would ask this party to do the same. One word,

in conclusion, are you do not approve of the people who'll speak

about nuclear accidents as if they were or something that we, who were

responsible for the nuclear energy, do not worry about. I read every

word that has been written by the nuclear inspectorate so far about

what happened in Japan. What happened then it had nothing to do

about nuclear, it was caused by a tsunami. I do not think we will

have a tsunami here. We must be realistic about this. I am

disappointed that a party, to me, which is a green and a red party,

does not have any concerns so far in this debate, seems to have no

concern about the people working in the nuclear industry.

The conclusion of that debate, a very narrow road -- vote. The party

voted in favour of maintaining their current stance on nuclear

power, which is to oppose the building of any new nuclear

stations, but to allow the development of existing ones.

Crucially, it is in Ieuan Wyn Jones's own backyard. I am joined

by Simon Thomas AM and Eurfyl ap Gwilym. We have heard from several

candidates this morning. By you going for it? I am talking to

people about what sort of leadership the party should have

been the next period. And what kind of leadership I could bring, if I

were to stand, and I would be a different sort of leader. I am

talking to people and gauging their opinion. It is a long period to go.

You are an experienced member of parliament. You are quite a young

for AM. You are quick off the block to go for the leadership. It would

be. But we need to think about to be the leader for the next five

years. For the next Assembly elections. We should be looking at

the hall leadership issue for the next 10 years. I am talking about

the sort of the leadership we should be showing to the country as

a whole. I think we need to go to the next generation. Several people

might declare themselves. You might be one of them. Give as a flavour

of of what the sinus -- Simon Thomas manifesto would be. I will

give a submission to the review and I will contribute. A you are going

to go for it. There are several things we need to be clear about.

The first is that the party has to lead Wales as a hall. They have to

appear to a wider range of people. A lot of people have broken the ice

with Socceroos, but they are not returning voters. -- Plaid Cymru.

We need to communicate with them in both Welsh and English. We need to

use a new methods of communication. It is not about the message, it is

about the delivery of the message. The message is not going to appeal

to everyone. Not everyone supports us. Of course not. But a large

number of people in Wales, as has been shown in Scotland, would

support as and would be happy to vote Plaid Cymru if they felt

company. Would he get your third? Time will tell. I am keeping an

open mind. I'm looking forward. We will have a series of candidates.

We will have a vigorous campaign. I were trying keep an open mind on

this. And then we will all reach a judgement. You are carrying out a

complete review of the party, the structures, the strategies, the

policy. Where are you one that? have just got going. I have done

some work behind the scenes. We have got the team together. I have

got a very strong team of five. They will have teams working for

them. We're into the prices and a working intensively. We aim to get

the report out by the end of the year. Everything on the table?

Everything up for grabs? When you say everything on the table,

everything up for grabs, we have always had some consistent policies

and values in his party and we will continue to have those. This review

will not be changing policy. We will be looking at things like

structure, as Simon said, had to extend a campaign? How do we reach

out more to the people of Wales? I think of so, there is a little bit

of a feeling that given the time we were in government in need and

should -- in the National Assembly, we tended to read -- neglect the

party of the country. We need to the look at that. I am enthusiastic

about looking at the way we develop policy. I think we have got weak

recently. We need to strengthen that. That feeds into engaging the

membership and the people of Wales at large. Alsop political education

process. We are engaging in a vigorous debate about the formation

of policy. That is how you fire up people in all are interested in

policy. -- politics. We have had tremendous progress in Wales.

wonder whether the message needs to change because the events have

changed. The referendum, what is happening in Scotland. Does Plaid

Cymru have to renew its message? think we have been a little bit too

apologetic and defensive about a constitutional aims. I know what

was in the men of their -- manifest on page 16, that is not very

sensible. Throw at Ieuan Wyn Jones's leadership, you could argue

that he did not Trumper that. He did not mention it in his speech

yesterday. He thinks that scares people. Does that need to change?

It is interesting. If you look now at a Welsh opinion, as mentioned by

opinion polls, for what it is worth, and it is worth something, the

majority of people favour borrowing powers. They would like to see

taxation powers in Wales, they would like to see the devolution of

the justice system here in Wales. In a way, the people of Wales are

getting a little bit ahead of us in terms of the steps to be taken to

self- government. We need to map out much more clearly the steps,

the options at each stage, then invite the people of Wales to take

the journey with us. Some will only come so far, some were not want

come any further, that is the minority, a lot of people will come

with us. Crucially we have always led the debate in Wales, or even

when we did not have any MPs. The other parties come behind us.

People say they are putting the tanks on a warlord, that is great,

we have got a very wide lawn. We have plenty more space to attract

people. You have got the Welsh a fine of the other parties. It is a

horrible word. In a way, they are on your territory. A potential

leader would be, OK, do we go and become a more nationalistic. Would

that be the option? It is an option, but I do not think it is the

realistic option for Plaid Cymru. The pack -- the fact that the are

the past these have become more Welsh in their policy making, the

direction, backed, they are still Unionist parties based in London.

This to run from London. The Welsh Labour Party does not exist as a

legal constitutional entity. It is a brand, that is all. Carwyn

Jones's message is very different from Ed Miliband. We have to be

very clear about an hour message. They have to be very clear about

our constitutional aims, but we have to be open to people who just

want to come with as part of the People will vote for the SNP

because they are the best Government. We have are the only

Government who has delivered on every item. That is very much

missing from what Cameron and Labour are doing. The people of

Wales gave you that of a shock, so if you are to get back into

Government, it is crucial to have an influence, where do you stand on

collision? That has been a debate here, whether power, it doesn't

matter at what price, his power the ultimate thing? I do not think

anyone in Plaid Cymru would say we would go into coalition to seek

power at any price, but when you go into coalition, and it is the heart

of -- the art of politics is the art of compromise, when we joined a

political party, we do not agree with everything that party stands

for. We compromised because we think overall, we get more power by

working through a party machine, but we accept party policy. Carwyn

Jones's Government, a majority, at a majority, it gets in trouble, the

Tories, too, the Lib Dems, what about a coalition? What about

reinvigorating the rainbow coalition? The one who wrote the

papers -- for one who wrote papers on the Rainbow Coalition, I would

be cool about that. It is practical to have two parties in coalition,

three would be more difficult. The Lib Dems would be extremely

different. But what about the Tories? I think you should never

say never in politics. The concerning thing is I would say, or

for the first 12 years of the National Assembly, there have been

two periods where the Government of the day appears to have some sense

of direction and purpose, the first was when it was in collision with

the Liberals, less so than when they were in collision with us. Now

you get the impression of a rather feeble Government, which is very

sad. Now or never for the Tories? You never show your cards. The

Tories represent a strong standing of public opinion in Wells. They

are power bloc. -- in Wales. Our job is not to get involved in the

fight between that Labour and the Tories. Power job is to promote

Wales and Plaid Cymru and to use those powers for the best of Wales.

Ten minutes on live television and you did not declare, when will you

declare? We do not even open the nominations until January. Well

done to Elin Jones, but I think this is a marathon. Thank you very

much. It is back to mark now, who I think despite the rain has ventured

outside. We stepped out into the fresh air but not the fresh rain. I

am joined by two people who will shed some light on the future of

the party, the treasure, Daffyd Trystan,. Leicester were that

election. We heard about what might have gone wrong. As the treasurer,

was money have factor in that campaign, but delivering what he

wanted to? It was a factor, and when you compared what the

resources of our friends in Scotland were, the SNP spent over

�1 million, Plaid Cymru spent about �150,000 on the election. There is

a challenge for the party to take funding more seriously. The point

to make his that Plaid is unique in that context because each of the

party's does not have the kind of resources that parties in Scotland

have. A few years ago,... Plaid Cymru did have a period of having a

bit more cash, as that now run out? What we now find is that people are

very generous in their bequests and thankfully, bequests are something

you should not rely on or predict. There are those who are very

generous and the money to Plaid Cymru and it is a critical part of

building towards the next election. So, money had run fatter but

Nicholas, that was not all that went wrong will stop what did you

think was the problem with that last campaign? We hoped for better

results. Our main disappointment is be feel that Wells has missed the

opportunity to advance in terms of constitutionally and in terms of

looking at the various issues of raising standards in Wales that we

were looking at during the election. But in terms of our campaign, we

did not take credit enough when it went well. Are ministers were

looking to make changes... Was stopped you? We were distracted him

to... We were exhausted from the referendum campaign. Perhaps that

is where our focus should have been. There is a silver lining, because

the issues that a Labour wells Government is now talking about,

not really labour issues in the sense that there are issues that

are on the agenda and we have really changed the political

terrain. When Plaid Cymru resolves the issue is that we have at the

moment, we will move into a stronger position, where we can

actually change things and make an advantage. One of the issues was

nuclear power. Sorted out for us. Where does the party stand?

party policy is quite clear, we are against nuclear-power, we remain

opposed to nuclear power. There are obviously occasion when the West as

the Government will choose to do things in Wales that we oppose, and

at that point we have to make every opportunity that is afforded to us

to influence the lives of people in an area around, say, Anglesey.

it is something you party leaders are depending upon. It is clearly

going to happen, it is part of the UK Government's policy. The big

challenge is tackling the issue of climate change and developing our

renewable sector. We have had many debates about renewables and that

is what we in Plaid Cymru had gone to be working on. Look Nicholas,

quickly, or you police that vote went the way it did? It was a

really close vote, I was pleased that the debate was held and I hope

we keep having get into that country -- Plaid Cymru as the UK

Government's policy unfolds. As a party, I think we would like to see

the UK Government make a bigger commitment to renewable energy,

which is the energy of the future and to make that their priority.

Thank you very much for your time. This time yesterday, Ieuan Wyn

Jones was preparing to make his final speech to conference as party

leader. He will be standing down in the spring after 11 years at the

helm. It was personal and emotional at times.

As this is my last conference speech as leader of the party, I

want to cast mine I over the past few years. But this is not going to

be a history lesson, although I hope there will be one or two

lessons that the party will remember as we face the next period

in our journey as a party and has a proud nation. Let us begin by

remembering one thing about everything. -- above everything.

This party was formed because Wales needed a party that was prepared to

put the interests of Wales pub off all else. In our long and proud

history, the party has faced enormous challenges, we have

witnessed differing fortunes, depending on our electoral cycle.

Yet, even in the scenes of our greatest triumphs, as well as her

worst moments, we have not forgotten that central mission,

which is to put the interests of Wales first. I am sure we can all

remember occasions when they put the interests of Wales even before

the interests of our own party. That is what defines us in the

politics of modern Wales, because no other party has ever been

prepared to do that. No other party will put the interests of Wales

before their own interests. For them, political calculations or

political advantage weighs heavily with them. It does not with us. And

yet, the paradox is this - Wales needs a strong, firm and resolute

Plaid Cymru to make sure that Wales moves to the next stage of our

national journey. In the past, London has listened when Plaid was

strong and seen as an electoral threat. If you lose some of the

Cabinet papers of the 1960s and 1960s - I 1970s, you will see that.

The British state did make concessions to Wales when Plaid was

winning were increasing its share of the vote. That was true until

1997. Then of course, the political dynamic changed. There is now a

feeling that because Wales has its Assembly, Whitehall can ignore

Wales. That is a phenomenon which applies whichever party is in power

at the other end of the M4. It was true for Scotland as well. Now that

Wales has its Assembly and Scotland has its Parliament, we can forget

about them to the North and to the West. But it was only true for

Scotland until the SNP became the largest party. There is a lesson

for us there in Wales. It is no longer good enough for Plaid to be

making small advances here and there, winning the odd seat now and

then. For Wales to succeed now, Plaid has to be in Government in

Wales. To put it another way... To put it in another way, Wales cannot

succeed if Plaid is content to be in permanent opposition. Does

Whitehall treat Wales and Scotland the same in 2011? A course it does

not. Why? Because Scotland has a majority SNP Government. Wells has

a minority Labour Government. -- Wales. What has been happening

since made? Who has been making the running for extra powers for their

nation? Who insisted that on Llanelli meeting that the

Chancellor of Exchequer to get more fiscal autonomy for the nation two

who has been demanding greater self determination for the nation? Was

at Alex Salmond, or was it Carwyn Jones? That is not a rhetorical

question, there is an answer to it, it is Alex Salmond. Of course it is.

Labour in Government went into the election, but Labour in Wales went

to the Government after the 2011 Election, seemingly afraid of their

own shadow. Constantly looking over their shoulder, wondering if they

are upsetting their bosses. What is the deal for Scotland? The Calman

Commission has delivered boring -- borrowing powers of nearly �3

billion. It has more powers to set income tax rates, more powers to

levy used-car and specific taxes. All in all, the Scottish Parliament

will be responsible for one-third of the money it spends. Alex

Salmond did not stop there. He has called for even more powers for

Scotland. More powers to borrow money, control for corporation tax

and money from the fossil fuel levy. Wales has no powers to raise a

single penny of the money we spend. So we have already - and we are

already miles behind Scotland. That is what the SNP Government had

secured and called for, what does Labour ask for Wales? Well, they

won the introduction of the Barnett formula, some foreign powers and

powers over some very small taxes, which someone called Mickey Mouse

taxes, which will raise only 2% of the money that will Spence. The

reason for that is Ed Balls will not allow Carwyn Jones to call for

reform of the Barnett formula. So there we have it. Scotland,

powering ahead, and nation on the march, in top gear, the SNP

Government setting the pace. And Wales, lagging behind with no

ambition, in reverse gear, going nowhere under a Labour Government.

APPLAUSE. We actually said in the general

election, that Wales would standstill under Labour. We were

wrong. Wales is going back under Labour. We are losing ground. We

are in the first year. At a time when people are facing

unprecedented cuts in public spending, it is time to stand up

for Wales. At a time when people are losing their benefits, at a

time when people with disabilities are being denied their benefits, it

is a time to stand up for Wales. At a time when people are losing their

housing benefit, and more people are becoming homeless, it is time

to stand up for Wales. Do you remember who used that slogan in

the election? It was a Labour slogan. It is not a case of Labour

standing up for Wales, they are standing aside. It is Plaid's role

to be the Government of Wales, we would never stand aside because we

would stand up for the people of I'm not saying we should rush into

government immediately. A party, from time to time, will need some

occasions to reflect, renew, reinvigorate. I'm sure we will need

time to reflect on the 2011 election, not rush into hasty

conclusions. And allow the commission to look at things and

bring forward its recommendations by the end of the year. But when

the time is right, we should never turned down for the call to the

lead and one nation. It is our duty and Plaid Cymru should always step

up to the plate. Being in government demands discipline. It

can be intensely frustrating. At times it involves making difficult

decisions. He had to make tough choices. But it is our

responsibility to lead Wales. We have seen what happens when Labour

is left to do it alone. Wales has already started on a long journey

to be a more self riffle -- self- reliant, more mature nation. The

train has left the station. It has even called to North Wales. There

is no going back now. Labour would try to take us down some sidings,

but they were hit the buffers. Plaid Cymru has to lead to get

Wales back on track. It will not always be in the sea journey. At

times it will be a bumpy ride. We will have to stop sometimes for

refuelling. But getting back into the driver's seat, we must. One

Wales was the beginning, not the I have no hesitation in saying

today, it is the best government Wales have had since 1999. We did

good things. I will tell you something, the mistake we made into

-- in 2011 was not telling people what we did in government. We

should have told people what we achieved. Wales is a better place

because of that government and Plaid Cymru is responsible for that.

We must be able to sell ourselves better, not be afraid to claim the

credit for the things we did. However, striding to be a party of

government, becoming the biggest party in Wales, means that we have

to accept certain challenges. We cannot run after every hair or

follow every hand. We need to persuade more people than ever

before. Not only can Plaid Cymru be trusted to govern Wales, but we are

ready to do so. That does not mean we give up campaigning of speak out

on issues, but it means we have to reach out to people who have never

voted for as in the past or may never have voted for us more than

once or twice. We must make Plaid Cymru a comfortable home for the

majority of the people of Wales. Whatever language they speak,

wherever they come from, whatever their background. Wales needs as

more than ever. We did good things in one of Wales, but there is more

still to do. Education in Wales needs to be sorted out. Levels of

literacy and numeracy are a scandal. The health service needs firm

direction. Tackling the causes of ill health as well as healing the

sick. Making sure cancer and stroke patients received her the vital

treatment. And making palliative care the best it can be. Making

sure the economy continues on a path of economic renewal. Making

sure that our young people are given the skills they need to meet

the challenges of 21st century Wales. Wales journey as a nation

has taken some mighty leaps ahead in recent times. It is about extra

powers, but it is also about that rather indefinable thing called

confidence. I believe that the people of Wales now have the

confidence to go to the next stage on that journey. History teaches us

that Nation marked on freedom has to be based on the support of his

own people, but also on the willingness of its leaders to take

calculated risks. In the past, it is true that Wales has been held

back as a result of that indefinable thing called a lack of

self-confidence or lack of self- belief. I have lost count of the

number of people who told me that Wales would never vote Yes in 20th

March 11. They kept telling me, Wales was still not ready for it.

They will never vote yes. That is what they keep telling me. They

lacked the essential self belief that is necessary to win a

referendum. I understand why people were nervous about it. I tell you,

it took more than a little courage to take that step. But I knew that

the people of Wales were ready to take that step. Any leader needs to

be able to take decisions like that. And Wales, I believe, is ready to

take further steps. The timing has to be right, but nothing will be

gained by being timid or an ambitious. We need to be bold, to

set out clearly our ambitions for Wales, to make sure Wales has the

resources to bring greater prosperity to our people. My time

as a leader is coming to an end. Candidates to become the next

leader are beginning to declare themselves. Any more today, I

wonder? It has been a great honour to have been president and party

leader for the past 11 years. The party has only had eight leaders in

its history. To be one of them is a rare privilege. As always, of

course, a new leader will open a new chapter in at the party's

history. A new face. A voice giving voice to our hopes and aspirations

for a better Wales. Wales needs Plaid Cymru more than ever. We need

to give our next leader all have the support needed to make Plaid

Cymru the natural party to go than Wales. As I take my leave of the

leadership stage in the spring of next year, I pledge my support to

the next leader. And to the party I have been a member of for 46 years.

Then she very much for your support. Thank you for the privilege of

leading the party and as I leave the stage, I am confident that the

party has taken in Wales further on its journey to freedom. We have a

long way yet to go. As the old saying goes, it has been a great

beginning. The best is yet to come. That was Ieuan Wyn Jones addressing

the conference for the last time as party leader yesterday. Of all the

conference speeches he has given, he said that was the easiest to

write and the one he enjoyed most. We will hear from somebody who

knows Ieuan Wyn Jones very well shortly. First, let's go down to

the fire. I am a joined by the Johnathan Edwards ands the

executive of Plaid Cymru. It could be said that Plaid Cymru found it

difficult to land punches on Labour. Since then, you have had a long

period of reflection which is still ongoing and two were not going to

have a new leader in place until March next year. Is that too long?

I'm quite relaxed about the process that has been outlined by the party

hierarchy. We have had a major strategic victory last year. Be

secured victory in the referendum. That was a massive step forward. It

has been a very successful year. After every election, every

repartee what -- reflects on what has happened. Pier in the midst of

a very long cycle. It is four years until the next general election. It

is right that we take time to reflect on what we have achieved,

where we go next and following the end of that revering period, we

will look towards the person who will leaders will the next few

years. Does that period make it more difficult? Obviously, every

day you were trying to land but a pensions, but there is a period of

uncertainty. Would it have been better if Ieuan Wyn Jones had gone

immediately after that election? do not think so. This process is

part of the constant ongoing process. The party is looking at it

pulses, its direction. It is something we have to do as a

political party. Things change on a day-to-day basis. There is the more

they focus on this because of the result of the election, but Ieuan

Wyn Jones is the lead at the moment. He is respected and experience. He

will carry on putting the government of Wales to count until

the steps down. I think there is up too much focus on the timescale.

The Duke of the matter, we have a strong team in the Assembly. They

will continue doing their job but the government to account. It you

feel that might be done more effectively under different

circumstances? We know the Welsh government is having great

difficulty with education, with local government. Two councils thus

far have been taken over to some extent by the government. Another

man, Pembrokeshire, is under inquiry. You feel you are missing a

trick because you are having these internal wranglings? Off from it.

We are landing punches day, but at Westminster and Assembly level. The

are showing the lethargy of the heart of the current government,

the lack of ambition that the Labour Party have a for Wales. They

are back to a unitary status. They are seeing any a concession to the

devolved government as a concession to nationalism. Where are you going

in terms of repairing whatever was wrong with the election? They know

you have got this process which has not yet concluded, but looking at

the leader's speech yesterday, there was a lot about the problems

of recent decades. Not a lot about the next step forward. What was

wrong that this to be put right? What was wrong within the party? It

is a case of bodies in the last election, people did not vote for

us. But bizarrely, you lost it, having achieved something of

supporters have sought for for a long time. The bet is the measure

of success for Plaid Cymru. Paddy you measure success? It is a -- is

it about collective psyche those or was it about the march towards

freedom and independence for Wales? That is how we measure success.

think the key thing when you go to the National Assembly elections is

that the definition of success and failure are defined by very small

margins. We are talking about a couple of hundred more boats, then

we would have had a few more seats. We won the referendum and we got 11

seats. It has been a very good year. Be heard Elin Jones talk about a

need for Plaid Cymru to broaden its support. How will you do that? How

well you reach out to new communities? We have got to go out

and talked people make sure they understand the messages we are

trying to put over. We need people to understand what the party is

about. I do not think anyone is kidding themselves that the party

is not a free drink for Wales and getting the right projects in place

for the people of Wales. We need to convince people that Plaid Cymru is

the best party to achieve that. There is a huge appetite for

greater political economy in Wales. We are the only party that will

deliver that. Unionist parties are all entrenching back. The people of

Wales should come with us on the exciting journey ahead. The next

stages of the journey will be very interesting to observe. I am joined

now abide the brand new chief executive of the party, Rhuanedd

Richards. Welcome. It is your first week in the job. What a week!

Straight into the deep end. It is a 9 in at the Plaid Cymru house. It

has done amazingly well. I could not have pot-pourri beat -- for a

better conference. People are very enthusiastic but the future. They

are ready to learn the lessons of the pass. This is putting us in

good stead as we prepare for that reveal by Eurfyl ap Gwilym and his

team. It has gone very well, you say, but there is a division on a

lot of things. You've got a very divided party on nuclear. You have

got a divided party are -- party and had trumpeting independence.

You could say that up almost any a party on the first issue. Almost

every party has various opinions on the nuclear industry. It is

different about a party is that we are willing to have those debates

openly. You can follow what is going on. Not everything. Most

things. Other than internal matters. I think that is quite healthy. It

is a healthy position to be in. We're very proud of that tradition.

We hear the speech from Ieuan Wyn Jones. You have worked very closely

with him as his special adviser. Have you got a lump in the throat

when you listen to that question a kid was a very emotional day for

Ieuan Wyn Jones and for the party. Ieuan Wyn Jones has led his party

during the most successful time in There are no other party leader who

can say, I delivered a law-making Parliament for Wales. He has also

delivered recently the worst election result we have ever had.

Just to reflect on that, there was commitment to halt the referendum,

throughout the period they were saying it should not happen. He

stuck by his guns. -- moment to have the referendum. Of course

there are lessons to learn. He is absolutely right. That is what we

need to learn as we move forward. The issues Griffiths, what are the

lessons to be learned? -- Llyr Huws Gruffydd. I was glad that Elin

Jones has decided to throw her hat into the ring but I'm looking

forward to hearing the names come forward. In terms of the direction

of the party, for example, she mentioned independence I do not

know how many times, Ieuan Wyn Jones did not mention it at all.

She is going for it in terms of independence. With that suit you?

Absolutely, it is the fundamental reason that Plaid Cymru is in

existence so why do up in we need to shy away from that and I think

Elin Jones is putting her cards on the table. What she did say is the

focus needs to be on the Welsh economy. We have an economic

argument that needs to be had in Wales and I am looking forward to

that. In terms of the leadership contest, you are no good to comment

on policy, but in terms of the timescale, fill us in on what is

good to happen... I am in fact a returning officer in that election!

I can tell you that about the timetable. I will be writing to

branches and members in the next few weeks, telling them about the

election, and informing them that nominations will be opening early

in 2012 and will close probably at the end of January, and the

election will be held in March, which will allow hustings period

through fabric. It is an exciting process. I hope we can make this as

inclusive a process as possible, transparent, an opportunity to

bring new members on board, perhaps all members who have left the party

as well, Plaid supporters who would play a role in shaping the future

of the party. On the point mark was making about the time it is ticking

for asked to have that transition, I think it is right that we take

our time, because you would not have the debate if it was a knee-

jerk that happen within weeks of the election and we have a proud

tradition in having leaders who were there are a number of years.

We're not going to pick his successor very quickly, because

this is an appointment that will be hopefully a long-term one. But it

is already, they it will be another six months. To my money to be

focusing on attacking the Government Ingle the Tory party

provides the official opposition to Wales, Plaid Cymru will provide the

official opposition to the last Government. That work continues and

it is important. Someone said in Welsh nation it is a crisis, I do

not think it is a crisis, it is a critical juncture. Let us enjoy it

this opportunity to talk about who we are, our past, our future, where

we had been, where we are going, watch our hopes and aspirations are

for the people of Wales and paint a picture of the journey we would

like to travel on. One thing that is coming through clearly in this

conference, there is a steely determination coming forward, we

have been stirred into action by the Assembly results. Looking back

again briefly, you were there at the heart of the last Government if

you like deluding one Wales. Ieuan Wyn Jones said yesterday we failed

as a party to really celebrate her successes. Why was that German all

sorts of reasons for that. -- why was that? All sorts of reason for

that. We were focused on getting that campaign run. Some of us were

out of the streets. That may be a factor. Maybe we did miss an

opportunity, when they think of the fact that we avoided and number of

hospital closures, downgrading of services, thanks to Plaid Cymru's

efforts. The lesson for the future perhaps his we need to be a lot

more confident in talking about those successes. There was also,

people were saying,,... Perhaps that played on people's confidence.

One problem is that you spend too much time attacking Labour rather

than focusing on what you see as your successes. It is possible and

it is easy to see that now in the cold light of day. But from the

reaction I get on the street, it is now that the penny is dropping,

because people contrast the energy and sense of Purpose with the drift

and lethargy that we have now with his Welsh Labour administration.

Over time, time has been kinder to Plaid Cymru. So, all guns on the

last Government, there will not be another coalition with Labour,?

is not for me to decide. But will be a decision for the party

membership. If the situation arises, but at the moment that is not an

option. The focus of the party is about rebuilding itself. It could

be an option quite soon. Or the Rainbow could be reignited. The

coalition with the Lib Dems and the Tories. Where do you stand on

Mackem we will not go cap in hand to anyone. If Labour came to last.

-- ready HE STAMMERS? At them on, I do not sense the

stomach for another... In a way,, you have take this into his lap, he

said never say never. It could be a more sensible action. There are

those here who put motions saying, no never would the Conservatives

and not for this Labour Government either. Many be clear, as Chief

Executive of his party, I do not want us playing second fiddle to

anyone. Along to see this party leading Wales to a brighter future

and becoming the party of Government and that is what I will

focus on over the next few months. You have no doubt prepared speeches,

you are giving a speech later on, how would you feel about that,

being leader? This is my first political speech. It is nerve-

racking. And looking forward to it. We are all looking forward to it.

Do you rehearse in the mirror? he does not. I have rehearsed it

you can decide this afternoon. long is it? Probably about 15

minutes. Thank you for joining us. Now, the conference is going for

lunch so let us look back of one of the debate yesterday. This is what

the party had to debate about postgraduate funding.

A conference initiatives over the past decade have led to an increase

the number of wells school-leavers continue to higher education. In

Wales, there are 100 and the 7,000 students studying in our

universities and higher education institutions. Postgraduate study

however, especially in economics and finance, is almost exclusively

reserved for foreign students. I have recently graduated with over

�25,000 of debt and have been forced to take out a career

development loan from the retail banking sector to fund my

postgraduate studies. I have also taken to gap years and will be

working part-time throughout my course. It is no surprise that most

graduates cannot bear the burden of continuing to add to the debt and

are eager to enter the world will work as soon as possible. This is a

great detriment well civil society. There must come and provide funding

at present for... -- there will scum and provide funding a prison

for... -- there were asked Government at present provide

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 147 seconds

And employing capitalist principles on our education system, a policy

inspired by Labour, and capitalised on by the Tories, it resisted by

the Lib Dem puppets. Plaid Cymru the only voice for a fully funded

higher education and now it is the time for our party to lead the

campaign and protect the ambitions of students and the invaluable work

they produce for Wales. Hello. This last year, I had been

studying for a maths degree and history. -- Masters degree. It is a

subject and passionate about and I want to continue my research past

graduation. Luckily, I was one of the few who received part funding

for my fees, even though I time has been a constant struggle to keep my

head above water in the face of debt and financial worries. I am by

no means alone in this. Sadly, I often found myself asking why on

earth I bothered. Living on a pittance and working up to 25 hours

a week to get by a, which had the impact on the amount of time

available for my university work, which was the reason I was there.

It should not be this hard. Postgraduate study should not be

the preserve of the rich. Students from all backgrounds should have an

equal opportunity to study the subjects they laugh. This is why

our urge you to support this motion. -- I urge you. The debate yesterday

on postgraduate funding and apologies if you lost us briefly

their due to technical difficulties. We are now back with our political

editor. That was yesterday's debate, but they have been debating a

motion on independence this morning. The wording used to be full

national status within the European Union and the argument this morning

was people are not entirely clear what that means. This is in the

constitution of the party. constitution, are we going to

change that? Independence, just carry very easily. You just come

out and use it. It is a movement towards saying things bluntly, not

hiding, not allowing others to point a finger at you and count how

many times you use the Independent's word. As Elin Jones

did many times this morning. She is pro independence. I do not think it

fundament -- fundamentally does not mean anything difference that but,

no longer talks about full national To what extent using what is

happening here is being driven by the influence of Scotland? Is that

the party pre-empting independence? Partly. Due to what is happening in

Scotland and the language of politics in Scotland, why would

Plaid Cymru be talking about full national state as if it does not

mean anything different? If there is a not a subtlety and there which

is different, I am sure that as in Scotland, you were now allowed to

talk about independence. They do not want to be hostages to fortune.

Are green, white to we used this word? Then it does not matter.

We're right there, we are saying it. Elin Jones' line will be, we cannot

leave towards this. She would like to, but it is not one glorious

stuff, it would be one hell of a stack. The people of Wales are

clearly not ready for it, but let's tell them where we would like to go.

It is an open, Clear, part of the debate so that when things are

being debated in Scotland, Plaid Cymru are very clear about what

they want for Wales. What you say about the mood of the party? It is

it -- is it a party with a mission or still licking its wounds? I do

not think it is. Quite often you go to conferences where things have

gone badly and expect everybody to be downbeat, then they turn out not

to be because they have done that bit, they have realised fairly

quickly that it is not attractive to have a party licking its wounds.

You have to appear to be up for the pie -- fight but be prepared to

deal with those wins. I think you very much heard from the new chief

executive or turn what is going to be. They talked about that steely

determination. Have become works -- make that work, or for the good of

Plaid Cymru. There are rows done some sticky issues. She can talk

about having your kick and eating it as far as that push, pull

between political parties is concerned, but it is not easy to

deliver on that. Are you packing your bags now I'm going to the Lib

Dem cracked conference? Yes. Who have you got with you now?

I have got a man who knows this part of the world very well. It is

Gareth Jones. He is the current share of Plaid Cymru. You what

seeking re-election today. A I am indeed. Some members think I have

had done a good job. I have been standing in for the last year also.

What went wrong at the election? do not think... I think the main

thing that went wrong is that we took it for granted that people

realise the amount of success that the One Wales government have had

and the contribution that the Plaid Cymru members of that government

made to make sure that programme was one that really did move Wales

forward. I do not think we blow our own trumpets loud enough. I think

perhaps that is why we put our resources possibly into the

referendum. The had a great success with that. Perhaps we laid back too

much and did not go for it in the election. We possibly took people

too much for granted and did not make them more aware of the

successes that we had. The Duke concur with that? Certainly. It is

all about the ups and downs of politics. I have seen it personally.

I lost out the first term here and then regained the seat under the

name as it was then in that third term. Sold Barrar apse and downs,

but it is all about engaging with people, as we queued from Elin

Jones earlier. It is all about getting the message about what the

party is standing for. We are engaging in that issue currently.

Once you get that message over, you have to mix it with people and be

realistic. You have to knock-on doors. You have to engage. You have

to talk with people and convince them that Wales could be a better

place. That is the simple message. But to what you have to work out

what your messages and one of the main contenders for your next

leader, Elin Jones, has made it clear that her message is very much

independence. But the word which some people seemed embarrassed

about for many years. They are not embarrassed about it now. At the

same time, she said she wants to extend your reach. Can you do that?

The three core principles of on has been a Welsh language and

sustainability of the Welsh language. The social justice aspect

of it and self government. How you interpret self- government, nobody

in the party would shy away from that. At the end product is

independence, so be it. We are really engaged in promoting the

self- government of Wales. Make no mistake about that. There will be

various discussions and arguments about that. Given the complexity,

is it a difficult thing to sell? you listen to what Elin Jones said,

she said it has got to be the will of the Welsh people if they want to

go that far. We have got be clear that that is our aim and we have

got to explain to the Welsh people what it would mean in terms of

building Wales, a better Wales. Being responsible for our own lives

and not expecting somebody the other side down in London to tell

us what is best for us. I think the people of Wales know what is best

for them. I think the message we have got to take to them is to

explain more fully what exactly that means. It means being

confident that we are able to run our own affairs are better than

that they can on our behalf in London. Very briefly, is that bus

down on a piecemeal basis? It could well be, but it is about the shift

from being looked upon as a very dependent countries. We cannot do

without the other countries of the UK. There are some who think that,

but the fact is, Wales is becoming a dependent nation. We are seeking

to become independent of non- dependant all interdependent

countries. Thank you very much. We will see where this debate goes.

is going to one of the party's elder statesman, Perhaps the

party's eldest statesman. Dafydd Elis-Thomas. I am not even 65 yet.

You could be the new leader. That is possible. You are going for it?

Yes. I have accepted nomination -- nomination by our constituency

party. The clear thing for any one is to have support from our home

base. I have had indications from report across Wales in his

conference. Nothing has happened since it has changed my mind. I

have been Presiding Officer for 12 years. I have developed the Welsh

constitution. By will not talk about my track record. We do know

it. Elin Jones has made her speech earlier on the programme. We have

huge her manifesto. How were your stiffer from hers? In one sense,

right do not think it is for the reader to have a manifesto, I think

it is for the reader to indicate to the party what direction he or she

would want to take the party and then for the party to see how it

responds to that. I do not have a shopping list, but I think it is

important that we should be heading for One Wales two. I have got some

very clear of detectives. Sustainability is a new

independence. That means that sustainability has to affect the

way we judge everything we do as a society. By am sitting here with

those wonderful wind turbines at my back and that is the future. So it

is not by the constitution for you, it is about getting back into bed

with Labour? I'm not going into bed with anyone. I'll go to bed with my

wife. I am very happy there. He won one of the rare people who are

trumpeting and calling for a return to a coalition with Labour. I am

not trumpeting. In that sense, went to Jamaica institution will be. I

know you cannot have a government in power safely for five years that

can achieve things and we need to achieve things, including

sustainability. This cannot be achieved unless there is a clear

working majority. You cannot get complex legislation without a

proper working majority. That is what the government needs and that

is what I would offer to the government. Clearly, the party

would then have to consider whether the One Wales two is something the

party could agree on. So if Carwyn Jones came knocking, would you go?

I would make it known in my informal discussions which I have

with people in government that I would be amenable to do this. I am

making overtures on live TV. What more do you want? You one knocking

his already. Not everyone in the party would join you. If they are

not prepared to do that, they are in the wrong game. Politics is

about responsibility. So surely, the party of Wales, Plaid Cymru,

which has talking about governing Wales, should take its

responsibility in government. This is a duty laid upon us. What would

be a price? What would Carwyn Jones have to give you? I think that the

it is not a price, but the obvious things are effective green polity

is -- policies. That means tackling fuel poverty much more successfully.

Renewable energy is a key issue. I have been very concerned about what

happened and what has been happening to Jane Davidson's green

policies. It is quite a low price. You can hear him delivering that.

These are important issues. I do not think of it in terms of prize.

What I'm looking for is a programme of government which would be

negotiated to co-operate over a period of four years. That is the

sensible way to operate. You, perhaps, would not initiate a

debate on the constitution. The candidates might do so. Where to

stand on independence would? I am a bit of a philosopher. Therefore, I

believe that that there is no such thing in the 21st century as

independents, personally. Everyone is interdependent. I just issued