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Dafydd Elis-Thomas has said his goodbye to Plaid Cymru. Leanne Wood | :00:07. | :00:11. | |
shook hands on a deal with Labour. A sign of things to come? Welcome to | :00:12. | :00:14. | |
conference live. Good morning and welcome to our | :00:15. | :00:29. | |
programme from the Plaid Cymru conference. It's been quite a week | :00:30. | :00:33. | |
for the party. The resignation of an AM, deal with Labour to pass the | :00:34. | :00:38. | |
budget and is talk of a coalition. Plenty to occupy the minds of | :00:39. | :00:42. | |
delegates avidin langue Colin. If you want to join the debate, we are | :00:43. | :00:49. | |
on Twitter. And there to guide us through the proceedings, our Welsh | :00:50. | :00:54. | |
affairs editor Vaughan Roderick. Let's take things in chronological | :00:55. | :00:58. | |
order. The resignation of Lord Dafydd Elis-Thomas. A lot of people | :00:59. | :01:04. | |
saw this coming. Is it a blow for Plaid Cymru or will they be glad to | :01:05. | :01:08. | |
see the back of him? Elements of both. Someone in Plaid Cymru said to | :01:09. | :01:14. | |
me this is the first time the years we won't have Dafydd Elis-Thomas | :01:15. | :01:18. | |
seeing anything embarrassing on the Thursday before conference so that | :01:19. | :01:21. | |
is an element of relief I think because he has been a thorn in the | :01:22. | :01:26. | |
leadership's side for a long time. But there is genuine anger, people | :01:27. | :01:32. | |
feel he used the party and was happy to let the party paid for his | :01:33. | :01:36. | |
leaflets, distributed leaflets, that he let down his local party in a | :01:37. | :01:42. | |
pretty shabby way. People say this might be understandable, two years | :01:43. | :01:48. | |
into an assembly term of three years in but six months looks like he used | :01:49. | :01:52. | |
Plaid Cymru as a flag of convenience in the 70 elections. Then followed | :01:53. | :01:57. | |
the budget deal with Labour. Hailed by Plaid Cymru as the best budget | :01:58. | :02:03. | |
deal for an opposition party since the formation of the assembly. How | :02:04. | :02:09. | |
significant a deal is this? If you look at these deals, there are | :02:10. | :02:17. | |
things people on the Labour side would like to do anyway. It's not a | :02:18. | :02:21. | |
case of them forcing Labour to do something they are opposed to. | :02:22. | :02:26. | |
Probably what they would say is for the first half at least of this | :02:27. | :02:31. | |
assembly term with all the questions surrounding Brexit Wales needs | :02:32. | :02:36. | |
stability and having an agreement with Plaid Cymru and Labour over the | :02:37. | :02:40. | |
budget ensures that stability. It leaves Dafydd Elis-Thomas a bit | :02:41. | :02:44. | |
lonely. He may have thought that by leaving Plaid Cymru he would become | :02:45. | :02:48. | |
the government's 31st vote. It appears to me the government is not | :02:49. | :02:52. | |
interested in dealing with Dafydd Elis-Thomas. They want to continue | :02:53. | :02:57. | |
dealing with Plaid Cymru. Then this talk or non-talk of a coalition with | :02:58. | :03:01. | |
Labour. As a Leanne Wood been flip-flopping on this? Either that | :03:02. | :03:09. | |
or loose lipped. I was not at the briefings were she is reported to | :03:10. | :03:15. | |
have said that the coalition with Labour was under consideration. But | :03:16. | :03:18. | |
my colleagues were and all of them were clear about what she said. It | :03:19. | :03:27. | |
does appear that she opened the door to a bug of speculation that was | :03:28. | :03:33. | |
pretty pointless at this stage since no one expect there to be a | :03:34. | :03:36. | |
coalition formed at this stage of the assembly. They might be one | :03:37. | :03:39. | |
further down the track that no one is thinking now that there will be a | :03:40. | :03:45. | |
coalition. We can put some flesh on the bones of those topics over the | :03:46. | :03:49. | |
course of the next couple of hours. Let's head over to London and our | :03:50. | :03:54. | |
reporter has been talking to as many people as she can. Good morning. | :03:55. | :04:01. | |
Good morning. It has been a challenging week for Plaid Cymru. It | :04:02. | :04:10. | |
has indeed. Welcome to langue Colin were Plaid Cymru's members are | :04:11. | :04:15. | |
gathering for this conference. Yes a challenging week as he said. Just | :04:16. | :04:18. | |
over a week now since Dafydd Elis-Thomas made that decision to | :04:19. | :04:25. | |
leave the party. It was not unexpected may be in terms of the | :04:26. | :04:29. | |
big picture but the timing perhaps was a bit unexpected. Definitely a | :04:30. | :04:33. | |
sense here that people want to move on from that and I have asked some | :04:34. | :04:39. | |
people about it and people just want to focus on what is being discussed | :04:40. | :04:49. | |
here. Also, that talk of coalition. Again, nothing they want to talk | :04:50. | :04:53. | |
about explicitly but there is that tension about where Plaid Cymru | :04:54. | :04:57. | |
positions itself and the extent to which it props up Labour and to what | :04:58. | :05:03. | |
extent it opposes. The morale is pretty good. They have not had the | :05:04. | :05:06. | |
major divisions we have seen with other parties. But when they are | :05:07. | :05:14. | |
talking about Europe the main thing they are talking about is Brexit and | :05:15. | :05:18. | |
how Wales and the Welsh Government should position itself on that. They | :05:19. | :05:24. | |
wanted Wales to stay in the European Union and they think there are big | :05:25. | :05:29. | |
dangers in Brexit for Wales. Would we be right in thinking that Brexit | :05:30. | :05:32. | |
will be the dominating theme in this conference? Definitely. That is true | :05:33. | :05:39. | |
of any political discussion at the moment. Yesterday we heard from the | :05:40. | :05:43. | |
party's of spokesman Rhun ap Iorwerth talking about wrecks it and | :05:44. | :05:48. | |
how the Welsh Government needs to make a stronger case for Wales | :05:49. | :05:52. | |
staying and Britain staying within the single market and the importance | :05:53. | :05:57. | |
of that for the Welsh economy. Hywel Williams also said the harder Brexit | :05:58. | :06:06. | |
position was and patriotic. The feeling that they need to put | :06:07. | :06:10. | |
pressure on the Welsh Government. There are questions about Plaid | :06:11. | :06:14. | |
Cymru's stands on this. Is what they are proposing, staying on the single | :06:15. | :06:17. | |
market and the continuation of free movement of people as part of that | :06:18. | :06:20. | |
so maintaining levels of immigration, is that in the spirit | :06:21. | :06:26. | |
of how people voted? Thank you and there will be plenty more during the | :06:27. | :06:35. | |
course of this morning. The conference started yesterday and | :06:36. | :06:40. | |
Beth Al Lewis made reference to it. One of the main speeches was that of | :06:41. | :06:47. | |
the Shadow Health Secretary. We will hear a lot about Brexit in the lead | :06:48. | :06:51. | |
is a speech this afternoon which will be live here on BBC Two Wales. | :06:52. | :06:55. | |
It also featured heavily in the contribution from the Assembly | :06:56. | :07:03. | |
Member from Anglesey. The internationalist ever that takes | :07:04. | :07:08. | |
place year lag in each year is a great symbol of something that is | :07:09. | :07:15. | |
very important to me and to Wales. That is Welsh international is. | :07:16. | :07:22. | |
Wales welcoming the world and celebrating diversity by inviting | :07:23. | :07:27. | |
the world here and generating global links and associations and | :07:28. | :07:32. | |
relationships in doing so. The world coming together in the context of a | :07:33. | :07:42. | |
Welsh setting. It's interesting to note that the first National | :07:43. | :07:48. | |
Eisteddfod took place in London at Primrose Hill. It was back then in | :07:49. | :07:55. | |
1792 that that the voices of Welsh poets and Welsh singers filled the | :07:56. | :08:02. | |
air. It's time that London and the Westminster government heard another | :08:03. | :08:08. | |
Welsh voice, a united voice uniting those who voted to leave as well as | :08:09. | :08:16. | |
those that voted to remain in June's referendum. A voice saying to the UK | :08:17. | :08:19. | |
Government deliver annex it that works for Wales as well as it | :08:20. | :08:26. | |
possibly can. Yes Wales voted to leave but I don't think Wales wants | :08:27. | :08:29. | |
to take leave of its senses when it comes to our economic future. There | :08:30. | :08:43. | |
is much uncertainty about the future. Uncertainty about what lies | :08:44. | :08:53. | |
ahead. The Austrian American author business finger Peter Drucker said | :08:54. | :08:55. | |
the best way to predict the future is to create it and it's a very | :08:56. | :09:02. | |
relevant message at a time when so many people, especially young | :09:03. | :09:05. | |
people, feel that their future has been taken away from them. We have | :09:06. | :09:11. | |
to give them that future and let's be clear about the future we wish to | :09:12. | :09:19. | |
create for our country. This is a very famous hall in Welsh political | :09:20. | :09:24. | |
history. I hope you realise that. It was in this hall that a certain | :09:25. | :09:29. | |
former Secretary of State for Wales made a mess of the Welsh and love | :09:30. | :09:37. | |
them. -- national anthem. John Redwood knows he made a fool of | :09:38. | :09:42. | |
himself that day. I am sure he regrets every now and then that he | :09:43. | :09:45. | |
just stand there quietly and respectfully. He has been the butt | :09:46. | :09:50. | |
of many jokes over that particular afternoon here at the National | :09:51. | :09:57. | |
Eisteddfod pavilion. But Wales, don't roll over and let him and the | :09:58. | :10:05. | |
hard Brexit is have the last laugh when it comes to the future of our | :10:06. | :10:08. | |
country. We all need to work together on this. So Welsh | :10:09. | :10:19. | |
Government has to commit more energy to fighting Wales' corner but at the | :10:20. | :10:26. | |
same time we have to ensure that the eyes and taken off the ball in terms | :10:27. | :10:30. | |
of the rest of the work of government. Worked like delivering | :10:31. | :10:35. | |
the kind of NHS that we as patients and the staff working hard within it | :10:36. | :10:41. | |
know it could be. We have many of the right ingredients already. A | :10:42. | :10:45. | |
committed and skilled workforce. But we have a shortage of some of those | :10:46. | :10:50. | |
vital ingredients into many areas and we also have in the Welsh Labour | :10:51. | :10:55. | |
government a shortage of real strategy for a new approach to | :10:56. | :11:01. | |
delivering better health care. Plaid Cymru's input I think into this | :11:02. | :11:04. | |
week's budget announcement has demonstrated that in some areas what | :11:05. | :11:11. | |
Labour regarded as impossible or fantasy politics is not. Those who | :11:12. | :11:16. | |
criticised us for having an overambitious health policy that | :11:17. | :11:20. | |
could not be afforded in times of austerities should reflect on some | :11:21. | :11:25. | |
of what has been achieved through this just one set of budget | :11:26. | :11:29. | |
negotiations in terms of carefully targeted investment. But make no | :11:30. | :11:35. | |
mistake, we will continue to scrutinise the performance of labour | :11:36. | :11:40. | |
in running the NHS, record that is let's be honest poor. What we have | :11:41. | :11:46. | |
done with this one budget deal is to help remove some of the cant afford | :11:47. | :11:51. | |
it excuses. We have directed much needed investment towards mental | :11:52. | :11:55. | |
health. We have provided the tools for bringing down waiting times for | :11:56. | :12:00. | |
diagnostic tests which should have a knock-on effect on wider waiting | :12:01. | :12:07. | |
times for treatment. But the day-to-day responsibility for | :12:08. | :12:08. | |
improving performance remains with Labour. I would like to see an end | :12:09. | :12:17. | |
to the excuses offered by Labour on health. It always seems to be | :12:18. | :12:24. | |
somebody else's fault why we have long waiting times or waste services | :12:25. | :12:28. | |
are difficult to access. It's the fault of the UK Government for | :12:29. | :12:32. | |
cutting the budget, it's the fault of Wales 's reviving heavy industry | :12:33. | :12:38. | |
which left us with an ill population, it's the fault of the | :12:39. | :12:42. | |
patients for going to a any rather than waiting for the nonexistent out | :12:43. | :12:47. | |
of hours service. It's the fault of the media for reducing morale. It's | :12:48. | :12:53. | |
our fault for being too negative. Let's instead in the spirit of | :12:54. | :12:57. | |
positivity urged government to look for innovation, develop our own | :12:58. | :13:03. | |
innovation. It's Plaid Cymru working with campaigns like a right to live | :13:04. | :13:08. | |
that forced the government into rethinking the unfair process for | :13:09. | :13:11. | |
individual funding requests for treatment. I am proud of that. Let's | :13:12. | :13:20. | |
not say cant. This Scottish but -- government had their budgets cut as | :13:21. | :13:27. | |
well. They are also looking after population dealing with the legacy | :13:28. | :13:30. | |
of heavy industry and poverty but we are the ones being left behind. I | :13:31. | :13:39. | |
don't want a system where a man in his 80s speaks to me about his | :13:40. | :13:43. | |
despair at the fact that his wife has been on a hospital ward because | :13:44. | :13:49. | |
of a simple infection for five months because there is no dementia | :13:50. | :13:53. | |
care package available for her. I don't want the system where patients | :13:54. | :13:58. | |
see their local surgery closed because there aren't enough doctors | :13:59. | :14:02. | |
to work there. I don't want a system where pressures on staff and | :14:03. | :14:06. | |
patients wait weeks when it occurred and should be days for cancer | :14:07. | :14:11. | |
diagnosis, sometimes with devastating consequences. I am not | :14:12. | :14:18. | |
into the game of whether our system is better or worse than England. We | :14:19. | :14:25. | |
can learn from them and they can learn from us. We can all learn from | :14:26. | :14:34. | |
much further afield. I simply want the Welsh NHS to be the best it can | :14:35. | :14:39. | |
be. Our people and dedicated staff deserve no less. | :14:40. | :15:00. | |
There are bits of what motivated people to vote no in June are things | :15:01. | :15:10. | |
I understand completely. It was the desire to blame something for all | :15:11. | :15:16. | |
the social and financial ills that have hit the poorest hardest. The | :15:17. | :15:22. | |
desire to punish politicians for giving the impression that we have | :15:23. | :15:28. | |
not been listening. And the challenge for Plaid Cymru is to | :15:29. | :15:37. | |
renew that faith and trust. Neither we nor any other party can avoid the | :15:38. | :15:43. | |
blame. Politicians are all seem as the same thing but Plaid Cymru is a | :15:44. | :15:49. | |
party that is rooted in the communities of Wales. Therefore we | :15:50. | :15:52. | |
are in a strong situation to regain that respect and faith. If we work | :15:53. | :16:06. | |
hard we can show that we are ready to act and that is why I am very | :16:07. | :16:12. | |
proud to be working with a team of counsellors, active members and | :16:13. | :16:18. | |
working for a very special aim, to get the best out of our communities | :16:19. | :16:26. | |
and to get the best for our nation. And the result of the election | :16:27. | :16:31. | |
showed in May that people are very keen to trust in us when we show | :16:32. | :16:37. | |
that we are willing to work for them and for that trust. | :16:38. | :16:45. | |
So, to close. We are an old nation, but the new Wales is still young. | :16:46. | :16:57. | |
Ours is an ancient plant, but this new Wales is still in its infancy. | :16:58. | :17:04. | |
-- an ancient land. The recently crowned nor Baulch -- know about | :17:05. | :17:10. | |
Laurie said he who is not busy being born is busy dying. I will close | :17:11. | :17:17. | |
with these words. A new Wales holds so much potential for its people and | :17:18. | :17:23. | |
its communities must not be allowed to falter. And the challengers put | :17:24. | :17:27. | |
on our way are merely there to be overcome. Thank you very much. | :17:28. | :17:37. | |
APPLAUSE. That was Rhun Ap Iorwerth from the | :17:38. | :17:41. | |
state of the future for the Welsh NHS. Despite a favourable settlement | :17:42. | :17:46. | |
this week, different councils face very different challenges. One | :17:47. | :17:50. | |
particular example came to the fore this week as the leader of | :17:51. | :17:55. | |
Ceredigion Council Alan up Quinn was forced to apologise for swearing in | :17:56. | :18:01. | |
a BBC interview Waleed defending the way her council went about finding | :18:02. | :18:05. | |
savings. She spoke yesterday of her experiences working in a rural area. | :18:06. | :18:12. | |
When we look over the developments, I am struck by how much more | :18:13. | :18:17. | |
difficult it is by now to cope with continuous cuts, and over the last | :18:18. | :18:22. | |
four years, the rural areas of Wales have suffered much deeper cuts than | :18:23. | :18:31. | |
the more urban districts, and I can assure you that fair funding for | :18:32. | :18:37. | |
communities has been top of the agenda when discussing it with the | :18:38. | :18:42. | |
new Cabinet Secretary who came to visit me recently. We have to thank | :18:43. | :18:51. | |
Adam Price in particular for his hand in the behind-the-scenes | :18:52. | :18:56. | |
discussions concerning local Government for 2017-2018. It is not | :18:57. | :19:02. | |
half enough, of course, but the financial pot isn't anywhere near | :19:03. | :19:06. | |
enough, either. This needs far more investment, otherwise we will lose | :19:07. | :19:10. | |
critical services that are so essential for our people on the | :19:11. | :19:15. | |
ground. Social services are just as important as health. One is | :19:16. | :19:22. | |
dependent on the other. If health fails, then the social services have | :19:23. | :19:26. | |
to pick up the pieces, and without sufficient funding, they cannot do | :19:27. | :19:32. | |
so. But thankfully, some additional money has come to light. But in | :19:33. | :19:38. | |
truth, the what is continuing to get smaller and smaller. There is a lot | :19:39. | :19:44. | |
of work to do in that field. Since my first report in May 2012 the | :19:45. | :19:52. | |
budget of Ceredigion has decreased by ?34 million. That is 26% of the | :19:53. | :20:00. | |
budget gone. That has meant reducing the workforce significantly, and | :20:01. | :20:03. | |
that is not the end, either. The cost of employment has risen by ?10 | :20:04. | :20:12. | |
million, but we can see that the greatest number of cuts have come | :20:13. | :20:16. | |
through reshaping our services across the council. And what is | :20:17. | :20:22. | |
becoming more and more obvious, the cuts are now hitting our services on | :20:23. | :20:27. | |
the ground, and hitting the county's economy, as well. As with other | :20:28. | :20:33. | |
every other county. Thanks to George Osborne and here's austerity budget | :20:34. | :20:39. | |
and the coalition Government of the Tories and Lib Dems which Ceredigion | :20:40. | :20:44. | |
refuse to acknowledge, the Lib Dems refused to take responsibility for | :20:45. | :20:49. | |
the cuts. There is a strong argument by this party that following such a | :20:50. | :20:54. | |
policy not only damages core services but also, even worse, | :20:55. | :20:58. | |
weakens the entire economy. But there is some light through the | :20:59. | :21:05. | |
darkness. We will wait for the statement, but up until now, the | :21:06. | :21:17. | |
Brexit breakfast trio, we await with bated breath what they come out | :21:18. | :21:23. | |
with... But we can at least take pride in the fact that Ceredigion | :21:24. | :21:28. | |
voted to Remain, but on the other hand the farms in Ceredigion are in | :21:29. | :21:38. | |
danger of losing ?44 million of grant money unless London fills the | :21:39. | :21:42. | |
void. We will wait and see about that. That is enough good news for | :21:43. | :21:51. | |
now! I'll rephrase that, that's the end of the bad news. And now for the | :21:52. | :21:57. | |
good news. One thing that really encouraged me during the year was | :21:58. | :22:00. | |
the way communities across the county opened their hearts after | :22:01. | :22:06. | |
hearing about the poor people trying to escape from the atrocities in | :22:07. | :22:13. | |
Syria. Collecting money and goods was fantastic. The people of | :22:14. | :22:18. | |
Ceredigion reacted with their usual generosity, and working together, | :22:19. | :22:23. | |
under the local services board, they responded to the current crisis and | :22:24. | :22:27. | |
offered homes to the refugees within the county. By now, it's a small | :22:28. | :22:34. | |
number, 11 have been welcome to Aberystwyth and another seven | :22:35. | :22:38. | |
arriving next month. Others have settled very well, and the children | :22:39. | :22:44. | |
are in schools and taking part in activities in the community. Some | :22:45. | :22:53. | |
have already got jobs. We hope to take far more over the next few | :22:54. | :22:56. | |
years over the five years of the programme, said thank you everybody | :22:57. | :23:01. | |
who took part and helped. It is good to see that the message has also | :23:02. | :23:06. | |
spread across Wales. But in light of the financial situation, taking hard | :23:07. | :23:13. | |
decisions has been part of what we had to do. It wasn't going to be | :23:14. | :23:18. | |
easy, and we had to pull together for the sake of our residents. Elen | :23:19. | :23:25. | |
Ap Gwynn the leader of Ceredigion Council. The uplift in funding for | :23:26. | :23:29. | |
some of the councils in Wales came about as a consequence of that deal | :23:30. | :23:34. | |
between Labour and Plaid in the Assembly this week. Talking at the | :23:35. | :23:39. | |
Assembly, one of the new intake is Neil McAvoy, the regional Member for | :23:40. | :23:44. | |
South Wales West, and he is on stage at the moment. They don't know what | :23:45. | :23:49. | |
they are. Is it right wing red Tory Blairite party, or is it, read | :23:50. | :23:57. | |
Corbyn's UK nationalists? I don't know. -- is it comrades Corbyn's UK | :23:58. | :24:03. | |
nationalists? Where were the biggest swings in May, Blaenau Gwent, | :24:04. | :24:07. | |
Rhondda, Cardiff West, or from Labour to Plaid All Labour's | :24:08. | :24:14. | |
so-called heartlands. These are Wales's heartlands and we are The | :24:15. | :24:17. | |
Party of Wales. APPLAUSE. | :24:18. | :24:26. | |
The strategic aim, therefore, of Plaid needs to be simple. We will | :24:27. | :24:32. | |
replace the Labour Party as the Government of Wales. | :24:33. | :24:37. | |
APPLAUSE. I've been busy since being elected, | :24:38. | :24:47. | |
spending most of my time out of the Senedd, knocking on doors, speaking | :24:48. | :24:51. | |
to people, fighting injustices and getting results for my constituents. | :24:52. | :24:56. | |
I was in Barry on Thursday with residents and Plaid activists | :24:57. | :25:00. | |
fighting yet another incinerator. I have also been busy shining a light | :25:01. | :25:07. | |
on the lobbyists. Now, the Labour Party and their First Minister | :25:08. | :25:10. | |
opposes regulating their friends in the lobbying industry. Now, does | :25:11. | :25:18. | |
cash for access existing Cardiff Bay? Of course it does. -- exist in | :25:19. | :25:26. | |
Cardiff Bay. And guess what, Labour ministers refused to disclose their | :25:27. | :25:32. | |
diaries. They refuse to let the public know who they are meeting. | :25:33. | :25:37. | |
And why. And that is a recipe for corruption. On Wednesday, I held a | :25:38. | :25:46. | |
short debate in the Senedd debates to call for a register of lobbyists. | :25:47. | :25:52. | |
I will keep campaigning until we get one. We need to protect our party | :25:53. | :25:57. | |
and our watchdog democracy from corporate interests. APPLAUSE. | :25:58. | :26:05. | |
APPLAUSE Lobbyists sell their services to the highest bidder. | :26:06. | :26:11. | |
People like the British soft drinks Association, who will do whatever it | :26:12. | :26:15. | |
takes to stop legislation which would reduce the amount of sugar | :26:16. | :26:21. | |
children consume. Or the billing companies who want to destroy our | :26:22. | :26:26. | |
green lungs in our capital city -- building companies, and who refuse | :26:27. | :26:29. | |
to build north of Pontypridd in my constituency. We need to bring | :26:30. | :26:34. | |
lobbying out into the open, and the public has the right to know who is | :26:35. | :26:38. | |
being paid what to influence what decision. With a ?16 billion budget, | :26:39. | :26:46. | |
Wales needs transparency, and regulation should be introduced | :26:47. | :26:50. | |
without delay. I hope our whole party is able to fully get behind | :26:51. | :26:57. | |
our Clean-up Cardiff Bay campaign because this party also needs to | :26:58. | :27:02. | |
look at its relationship with commercial lobbyists. It is fair to | :27:03. | :27:06. | |
say that I have had a few run ins with the First Minister over the | :27:07. | :27:10. | |
local development plan in Cardiff, and for those who don't know, Labour | :27:11. | :27:14. | |
took over the council in 2012 stating that they did not want to | :27:15. | :27:20. | |
build on our green fields. Some of them even produced leaflets with | :27:21. | :27:24. | |
children standing in fields under threat, holding up Labour signs, and | :27:25. | :27:30. | |
accused us of being liars. Of course, as I knew they would, within | :27:31. | :27:34. | |
months of being elected, Labour and announced plans to build tens of | :27:35. | :27:40. | |
thousands of houses in the countryside surrounding Cardiff. | :27:41. | :27:43. | |
Those same fields where they stood so cynically with those children | :27:44. | :27:47. | |
will be bulldozed to make way for the new, sprawling suburbs that they | :27:48. | :27:50. | |
assured us they have no intention of building. Traffic is already | :27:51. | :27:56. | |
terrible comic queues go on for miles every day. Whilst politicians | :27:57. | :28:03. | |
talk in the Assembly about reducing air pollution, the political | :28:04. | :28:05. | |
decisions they make will ensure the lungs of our families will be filled | :28:06. | :28:10. | |
with poisonous fumes, and virtually no extra public transport is being | :28:11. | :28:15. | |
provided. Every consultation they have ever had shows that people | :28:16. | :28:21. | |
don't want this. We have helped local referenda with thousands | :28:22. | :28:30. | |
voting, 98% opposed the concrete and the carmageddon, yet Labour refused | :28:31. | :28:34. | |
to listen. But this isn't happening in the whole of Cardiff. In the rich | :28:35. | :28:39. | |
northern suburbs, Labour started a campaign for a green belt, so it is | :28:40. | :28:42. | |
green belt for the wealthier areas but Green destruction for Fairwater | :28:43. | :28:49. | |
and Ely. Where are the Corbyn supporters challenging this? Here is | :28:50. | :28:54. | |
an example of environmental vandalism being inflicted on | :28:55. | :28:57. | |
disadvantaged communities to make huge profits for housing developers, | :28:58. | :29:02. | |
employing lobbyists by the way. Where is the so-called champion of | :29:03. | :29:07. | |
the environment. Labour appointed well-being and future generations | :29:08. | :29:13. | |
Commissioner Sophie how. In the Senedd, the only response I get to | :29:14. | :29:17. | |
my questions from the First Minister on the LDP is outright rudeness. He | :29:18. | :29:22. | |
told me I live in a land of fantasy, called me a coward, says my | :29:23. | :29:26. | |
statements in the Senedd not worthy of response. He is the one living in | :29:27. | :29:32. | |
a fantasyland. He will not admit that he stated on the record to a | :29:33. | :29:38. | |
journalist his party would implement the LDP, meaning tens of thousands | :29:39. | :29:42. | |
of houses built on Cardiff's greenfield sites. And this has been | :29:43. | :29:47. | |
confirmed by the journalist, even though Carwyn Jones still denies it. | :29:48. | :29:53. | |
But his Government press office is slightly confused, because they say | :29:54. | :29:57. | |
he did say it, but as leader of the Labour Party and Potter 's First | :29:58. | :30:01. | |
Minister. Now, you couldn't make it up, could you? You know, Carwyn | :30:02. | :30:06. | |
Jones might not think my statements in the Senedd are worthy of | :30:07. | :30:10. | |
response, but he will get his response in May when Labour are | :30:11. | :30:13. | |
thrown out of city Government in Cardiff. | :30:14. | :30:14. | |
APPLAUSE. . Now, the thing is, this isn't just | :30:15. | :30:26. | |
happening in Cardiff. We have Wrexham, they have tried to do it in | :30:27. | :30:31. | |
Caerphilly, Plaid Cymru activists including the unstoppable Lindsay | :30:32. | :30:35. | |
Whittle got the plans thrown out. APPLAUSE. | :30:36. | :30:43. | |
Now, our communities are not here to be steam-rollered by some planning | :30:44. | :30:48. | |
Inspectorate in Birmingham. They don't care about our history, our | :30:49. | :30:53. | |
culture, our way of life. They have no concern that the quiet rural | :30:54. | :30:58. | |
villages of Saint flagons and others are about to be part of a massive | :30:59. | :31:03. | |
housing estate all built on green fields, and the housing developers | :31:04. | :31:06. | |
certainly don't care about our way of life. The new developments, | :31:07. | :31:11. | |
church lands, Cardiff Point, with a knee at the end for no apparent | :31:12. | :31:16. | |
reason, this is Cardiff, the capital of Wales, we are not some corporate | :31:17. | :31:21. | |
cash cow. We are the largest collection of Welsh people living | :31:22. | :31:24. | |
together they have ever been in history, and our capital city must | :31:25. | :31:26. | |
reflect this. A Cardiff Plaid Cymru councillor | :31:27. | :31:44. | |
will use section 68 and will vote to tell the Welsh assembly to revoke | :31:45. | :31:48. | |
Cardiff's unwanted local development plan because we will protect our | :31:49. | :31:59. | |
city after May's election. This is easily the worst Welsh Government in | :32:00. | :32:04. | |
history. The evidence is all around us. Just a few weeks ago I was | :32:05. | :32:07. | |
exposing Labour's incompetence in the media, they sold to shops in | :32:08. | :32:14. | |
Pontypridd and lost ?1 million. ?1 million just gone on to shops. How | :32:15. | :32:19. | |
many play centres is that? How many doctors or nurses? This land in | :32:20. | :32:25. | |
Rhoose which was sold by the Welsh Government for ?3 million and the | :32:26. | :32:29. | |
person who bought it then sold the land for ?10.5 million. Another ?7.5 | :32:30. | :32:40. | |
million loss. But the real jewel in Labour's incompetence was the | :32:41. | :32:49. | |
Lisvane land deal. Land was sold for just ?1.8 million when it was worth | :32:50. | :32:59. | |
over ?40 million. Labour lost ?39 million of our money on one land | :33:00. | :33:08. | |
deal. When ?39 million is lost like that somebody should be going to | :33:09. | :33:13. | |
jail. At the very least somebody should lose their job. But nothing | :33:14. | :33:20. | |
in Cardiff Bay, it's just another day at the office for this dodgy | :33:21. | :33:25. | |
Welsh Labour. Business support as well is being squandered. A business | :33:26. | :33:32. | |
next to Edwina Hart was like former constituency where the money was | :33:33. | :33:38. | |
signed off by Edwina Hart. Did she declare an interest? Of course not. | :33:39. | :33:45. | |
?3.4 million loss on a company which was described as having a weak | :33:46. | :33:49. | |
business case. That doesn't stop Labour. Whistle-blowers are coming | :33:50. | :33:57. | |
to me all the time and the stories I hear amount to a scandal. Who needs | :33:58. | :34:03. | |
a strong business plan when a nod and a wink and knowing the right | :34:04. | :34:09. | |
Labour people is all that really matters? This was not what we signed | :34:10. | :34:17. | |
up for. Devolution was meant to be about Wales being governed better | :34:18. | :34:22. | |
for the people of Wales not some red Tory aristocrats. There are people | :34:23. | :34:30. | |
think this Welsh Labour government is so bad that we need to go into | :34:31. | :34:37. | |
coalition with them. Let me tell you, Labour want coalition. They | :34:38. | :34:43. | |
would love a coalition and there is a small minority and Plaid Cymru | :34:44. | :34:47. | |
will think that we have to take one for the team. To do what is right | :34:48. | :34:55. | |
for Wales. The simple truth is that what is right for Wales is ending | :34:56. | :35:07. | |
Labour rule. We need to spend the next four and a half years grinding | :35:08. | :35:11. | |
them down, challenging them at every opportunity. The way to move Wales | :35:12. | :35:16. | |
forward is by moving Labour out of the way. If our contact with Labour | :35:17. | :35:29. | |
is so good let's have a vote on it. Labour vote against bringing in an | :35:30. | :35:33. | |
autism act and that should have been game over. We should have nothing to | :35:34. | :35:41. | |
do with that. The public once robust opposition and that is what we | :35:42. | :35:49. | |
should give them. When we challenged Labour to be first blister our | :35:50. | :35:51. | |
support went up in the opinion polls. But we backed down and our | :35:52. | :35:58. | |
level of support dropped. We need to take a serious look at ourselves | :35:59. | :36:04. | |
because it may we had an unpopular Conservative government, a Liberal | :36:05. | :36:08. | |
Democrat party which had imploded, a CORBA night Labour Party in free | :36:09. | :36:13. | |
fall yet we only had good results in a handful of seats. If we go into | :36:14. | :36:18. | |
coalition with Labour we will lose support and we will never have the | :36:19. | :36:30. | |
power to really change Wales. We are not a pressure group. We don't exist | :36:31. | :36:36. | |
to movement he around in Labour's budget. We need to take over the | :36:37. | :36:42. | |
reins of power in this country. We needed Plaid Cymru government and a | :36:43. | :36:47. | |
Plaid Cymru First Minister in charge of the thousands of Welsh civil | :36:48. | :36:51. | |
servants who will implement our manifesto. Our Welsh democracy needs | :36:52. | :37:05. | |
recognisable difference. We need clear green water between a corrupt, | :37:06. | :37:13. | |
stagnant Welsh Labour and as the party of Wales. Wales needs a real | :37:14. | :37:24. | |
opposition and that can only come from us. Thank you. | :37:25. | :37:33. | |
That was Neil McEvoy the Assembly Member for South Wales Central and | :37:34. | :37:39. | |
little doubt as to which side of the feds he is sitting on when talk of a | :37:40. | :37:43. | |
coalition with Labour comes up. Let's step out of the conference | :37:44. | :37:47. | |
hall and join our reporter who has some guests. I am joined by Sian | :37:48. | :38:00. | |
Gwenllian and Mabon ap Gwynfor. Let's get your reaction to what you | :38:01. | :38:05. | |
heard from Neil McEvoy. Very strong words about Welsh Labour. About the | :38:06. | :38:13. | |
prospect of a coalition and the corporation going on between Labour | :38:14. | :38:16. | |
and Plaid Cymru. What do you make of what he had to say? He is a | :38:17. | :38:20. | |
passionate politician who is doing fantastic work in Cardiff and is | :38:21. | :38:27. | |
actually leading a very strong local election campaign in the city of | :38:28. | :38:33. | |
Cardiff. Should we view this in the context of Plaid Cymru against | :38:34. | :38:38. | |
Labour in local elections? He has got a strong point of view. I don't | :38:39. | :38:48. | |
share most of it. I think Plaid Cymru can be in opposition and can | :38:49. | :38:54. | |
be constructive as well as being pointing out what's wrong. We need | :38:55. | :39:03. | |
in our team different points of view coming through and Neal is a very | :39:04. | :39:10. | |
valuable member of our team. I think we can work with Labour on some | :39:11. | :39:15. | |
things, for example I've got a Welsh language in my portfolio and I work | :39:16. | :39:18. | |
with the Minister Alun Davies to move forward some aspects. But if I | :39:19. | :39:25. | |
think things are progressing quickly enough or targets are not being sent | :39:26. | :39:28. | |
for strategies are not being followed through I will be the first | :39:29. | :39:34. | |
one to start criticising as well. So we need that too edged approach. | :39:35. | :39:39. | |
Neil McEvoy suggested there should be a vote on the agreement that is | :39:40. | :39:44. | |
between Labour and Plaid Cymru and gave rise to the budget agreement | :39:45. | :39:48. | |
for example. What are you make of that? I would not like to see a | :39:49. | :39:56. | |
vote. As a member of Plaid Cymru we delegate powers to our Assembly | :39:57. | :40:00. | |
Members and our elected representatives to go into | :40:01. | :40:05. | |
discussions with other parties in the assembly so that they can strike | :40:06. | :40:09. | |
the best deal. We stood by our manifesto and we hope and we are | :40:10. | :40:13. | |
happy this time that Plaid Cymru has managed to secure the best deal | :40:14. | :40:21. | |
possible for the people of Wales. Neil McEvoy said Plaid Cymru should | :40:22. | :40:24. | |
have absolutely nothing to do with them. You would not go that far? I | :40:25. | :40:30. | |
wouldn't. People have different views. That is what politics is | :40:31. | :40:37. | |
about. To my mind this is an issue which is contrived by the press and | :40:38. | :40:44. | |
the media. We are talking about it now because it has been ongoing for | :40:45. | :40:50. | |
the last 24 hours. His opposition to cooperation with Labour is no | :40:51. | :40:55. | |
secret. He has been talking about it prolonged time. He is a former | :40:56. | :40:59. | |
Labour councillor and has very strong views about the Labour Party. | :41:00. | :41:03. | |
Hasn't he picked up by the problem here. You provide opposition but | :41:04. | :41:08. | |
other times you are working with them. Wade is Plaid Cymru really | :41:09. | :41:13. | |
stand? Is it compromising your profile? The main problem is that | :41:14. | :41:18. | |
Plaid Cymru is not in government. If we were in government we would be | :41:19. | :41:22. | |
setting the agenda and delivering and moving Wales forward. We are not | :41:23. | :41:27. | |
in that addition unfortunately. We are building on that and the local | :41:28. | :41:30. | |
elections are going to be really important that a stepping stone. You | :41:31. | :41:36. | |
don't have to be propping up Labour? We're not propping up Labour. We are | :41:37. | :41:40. | |
providing effective opposition and we are moving our agenda onwards. | :41:41. | :41:46. | |
The budget has shown that clearly. Our priorities are coming through in | :41:47. | :41:50. | |
that budget and that is through negotiating and talking. If we see a | :41:51. | :41:55. | |
few months down the line that some of those budget proposals are not | :41:56. | :42:05. | |
being delivered we will be the first to be criticising heavily as well. | :42:06. | :42:08. | |
It is a matter of keeping that balance I think, being constructive | :42:09. | :42:13. | |
and working together where we can but also providing that scrutiny and | :42:14. | :42:18. | |
that level of criticism that really needs to happen. The Labour | :42:19. | :42:24. | |
government are not delivering or showing the leadership they should | :42:25. | :42:27. | |
be and it's up to us to point that out. Could it be confusing for the | :42:28. | :42:34. | |
electorate to see Plaid Cymru and Labour hailing a budget deal one day | :42:35. | :42:39. | |
and then the following day you are having a go at them over Europe? I | :42:40. | :42:44. | |
don't think the electorate are that stupid. They know this is party | :42:45. | :42:52. | |
politics. What I'm concerned about is the electorate will look at this | :42:53. | :42:55. | |
and say why are we talking here today about this issue when the most | :42:56. | :43:01. | |
important issue facing Wales is how we're going to deal with Brexit. | :43:02. | :43:06. | |
What is Wales' role going to be in the discussions with the EU? What | :43:07. | :43:11. | |
will our role be within the discussions? Theresa May has said | :43:12. | :43:18. | |
we're not going to get their voice. That is what we're looking at here | :43:19. | :43:22. | |
this weekend. That is our focus. What role can Plaid Cymru play in | :43:23. | :43:27. | |
securing that Wales is represented and we get the best deal. I will ask | :43:28. | :43:33. | |
you quickly about negotiations about Brexit. Isn't it a problem view that | :43:34. | :43:42. | |
your influences marginal on this? It depends on you feeding into the | :43:43. | :43:47. | |
Welsh Government's position and then them feeding into Theresa May's | :43:48. | :43:54. | |
position. I see what you are saying because we're not in government and | :43:55. | :43:57. | |
we need to be in government. If we were in government we would be much | :43:58. | :44:02. | |
stronger than Labour is now in presenting the Welsh point of view | :44:03. | :44:07. | |
and we would be arguing the case for membership of the single market | :44:08. | :44:13. | |
because that is what is best for Wales and the economy of Wales. We | :44:14. | :44:17. | |
are not having that leadership from Labour. We're not sure where they | :44:18. | :44:22. | |
stand. I am really worried the Welsh voices being lost in all these | :44:23. | :44:26. | |
negotiations at the moment. Thank you very much for your time. Back to | :44:27. | :44:34. | |
the studio. Isn't it be us from what we heard earlier from Neil McEvoy | :44:35. | :44:38. | |
and from the guests there that like Camry is finding it very difficult | :44:39. | :44:43. | |
to decide where the dividing line is for an opposition party. Yes and I | :44:44. | :44:47. | |
think they found themselves in a difficult position and to be blunt | :44:48. | :44:51. | |
about it there are two opposing camps. What you have at the moment | :44:52. | :44:59. | |
is a not very comfortable compromise between those two camps. They are | :45:00. | :45:04. | |
not going to coalition felt so they are keeping people like Neil McEvoy | :45:05. | :45:08. | |
onside and they are making deals with Labour keeping people like Sian | :45:09. | :45:12. | |
Gwenllian onside. But that tension is there and it's going to continue. | :45:13. | :45:21. | |
Caxton 's stage -- at some stage the party will have to choose once and | :45:22. | :45:25. | |
for all whether they are going to go into coalition or whether they are | :45:26. | :45:29. | |
going to go into full opposition mode. It is not time critical that | :45:30. | :45:35. | |
decision. But sooner rather than later? If you keep having these | :45:36. | :45:42. | |
arguments surfacing in public they may say this is something we have to | :45:43. | :45:46. | |
resolve. But Plaid Cymru would need to look at the issue. If you're | :45:47. | :45:54. | |
going to break that deal with Labour it has to be over something. You can | :45:55. | :45:58. | |
say we have changed our minds. There has to be an issue on which they | :45:59. | :46:02. | |
break with Labour and think if they were looking for the issue would be | :46:03. | :46:06. | |
somewhere around the government's stance on Brexit. | :46:07. | :46:11. | |
There is a substantial difference between what Plaid Cymru thinks | :46:12. | :46:19. | |
about Brexit and what Carwyn Jones thinks. Ultimately it will be the | :46:20. | :46:24. | |
Assembly group's decision but for Leanne Wood to show leadership on | :46:25. | :46:27. | |
this matter. Do we know where she stands on this? Well, I think the | :46:28. | :46:34. | |
signals Leanne Wood has sent out have been a little confusing, to be | :46:35. | :46:41. | |
honest. As a leader, she is trying to straddle both sides. The | :46:42. | :46:45. | |
difficulty is that straddling both sides can often look like sitting on | :46:46. | :46:49. | |
the fence. She has been trying to send out signals that may be a | :46:50. | :46:54. | |
little muddled. It is something the party is going to resolve and one of | :46:55. | :46:59. | |
the big challenges for her as party leader. And the dynamic in the | :47:00. | :47:04. | |
Assembly, although we heard there is an accusation levelled, we have an | :47:05. | :47:07. | |
obsession with this question, the dynamic in the Assembly, the | :47:08. | :47:12. | |
numbers, makes it a very live issue, doesn't it? Absolutely. We had an | :47:13. | :47:20. | |
Assembly issue is the -- and Assembly election where Labour | :47:21. | :47:26. | |
managed to make of the majority with the sole Liberal Democrat Kirsty | :47:27. | :47:31. | |
Williams. You now have a couple of floating independent members in the | :47:32. | :47:35. | |
sense of Dafydd Elis-Thomas and the Ukip Member floating, so the maths | :47:36. | :47:41. | |
are there for Labour to do day-to-day deals that they would | :47:42. | :47:44. | |
rather have a running deal with Plaid. The question is, how long | :47:45. | :47:49. | |
will Plaid be able to put up with that. It may be the question that is | :47:50. | :47:55. | |
ultimately resolved by a leadership contest within Plaid It is not clear | :47:56. | :48:00. | |
to me whether Leanne Wood intends to leave Plaid Cymru right the way | :48:01. | :48:04. | |
through this Assembly into the next Assembly election when maybe she | :48:05. | :48:09. | |
would look a little shop soiled, little old and tired compared to a | :48:10. | :48:15. | |
new, fresh, Labour leader, because we expect Carwyn Jones to stand | :48:16. | :48:19. | |
down. It might be resolved by the leadership contest. For the time | :48:20. | :48:24. | |
being, thank you. The newest Member of applied Westminster group, Liz | :48:25. | :48:36. | |
Sabha- Roberts made a speech yesterday. I would like to begin my | :48:37. | :48:43. | |
speech with a word of tribute to the families of Aberfan. I know that | :48:44. | :48:49. | |
event has been burnt into the memories of everyone who was old | :48:50. | :48:52. | |
enough to understand what happened on that dreadful day. For younger | :48:53. | :48:58. | |
people, what remains in the memory, and to me, what stays in my mind, | :48:59. | :49:04. | |
who doesn't remember the event, what is burnt on my mind is the second of | :49:05. | :49:17. | |
understanding the shock of how the families of Aberfan were dealt with. | :49:18. | :49:22. | |
We need to remember that. The treatment they got. And for all | :49:23. | :49:29. | |
first, the dignity of those families is something we recall. Let us learn | :49:30. | :49:36. | |
the lessons of Aberfan in our politics, in our dealings with each | :49:37. | :49:42. | |
other. And what John Humphrys said in his report this morning, in | :49:43. | :49:49. | |
closing his report. "We Need to hold onto this." Always, always, we must | :49:50. | :49:58. | |
challenge authority. APPLAUSE. | :49:59. | :50:10. | |
. When I started planning this speech, it was quite obvious to me | :50:11. | :50:19. | |
that as the parliamentary leader would give you a report, I then | :50:20. | :50:25. | |
would concentrate on the occasional other issue, but that's what the | :50:26. | :50:33. | |
plan was. But, in the meantime, of course, my former colleague Dafydd | :50:34. | :50:41. | |
Elis-Thomas said he was going to leave Plaid and be an independent | :50:42. | :50:47. | |
Member. He did that before the constituency committee on Friday. | :50:48. | :50:52. | |
And I would like to note that each and every one of them who was there, | :50:53. | :50:58. | |
members with years, decades, some of them, five decades in the case of | :50:59. | :51:04. | |
some of them, of activity and loyalty towards the members and the | :51:05. | :51:12. | |
party, and enthusiasm towards Dafydd . There was a feeling of shock and | :51:13. | :51:19. | |
disappointment and sadness. The constituency committee appeal to | :51:20. | :51:24. | |
Dafydd Elis-Thomas's conscience. -- appealed. It is only a matter of | :51:25. | :51:36. | |
natural justice. It's a matter of constitutional principle. That is, | :51:37. | :51:46. | |
no one should be a judge in his own case, and that's all I have to say | :51:47. | :51:49. | |
on the matter. APPLAUSE. | :51:50. | :52:05. | |
And, of course, there is such a thing as campaigning and looking | :52:06. | :52:11. | |
back on former days, and aren't we looking forward to a prosperous | :52:12. | :52:21. | |
future for Wales? In Pwllheli in Dwyfor Meirionydd, Plaid Cymru was | :52:22. | :52:28. | |
established. And this year we had the biggest political shock in the | :52:29. | :52:32. | |
British state with the vote to leave the European Union. It was only | :52:33. | :52:37. | |
gradually that the effect of this decision has reached us, only barely | :52:38. | :52:45. | |
four months after the referendum. But the raw emotion of the | :52:46. | :52:57. | |
referendum is still with us and it's important to recognise the | :52:58. | :53:00. | |
importance of this. Didn't we see that regeneration in Scotland two | :53:01. | :53:06. | |
years ago? Of course, although politics can sometimes be a matter | :53:07. | :53:11. | |
of dry constitutional arguing over the dry bones of legislation, it is | :53:12. | :53:19. | |
also a matter of passion. We need to flesh out those dry bones, to bring | :53:20. | :53:25. | |
politics alive. It is through their emotions that people awake, and the | :53:26. | :53:31. | |
Brexit referendum was an emotional time. There were public meetings. | :53:32. | :53:39. | |
This was a time of awakening. It is so much easier to be afraid of | :53:40. | :53:45. | |
something, and Plaid Cymru, our party, must be aware and face that | :53:46. | :53:54. | |
fear in people. I am pleased to say that the troubles of the Brexit | :53:55. | :53:59. | |
referendum have opened the eyes of a group of young people, that there is | :54:00. | :54:04. | |
a younger generation awakening to the need to awaken and become | :54:05. | :54:16. | |
active. They are asking new questions, they are bringing new | :54:17. | :54:24. | |
leaders, there are branches of Plaid Ifanc coming forward. These are the | :54:25. | :54:31. | |
new people of Wales, and we welcome everyone of you, Plaid Ifanc, to our | :54:32. | :54:35. | |
ranks. APPLAUSE. | :54:36. | :54:41. | |
And of course, your parliamentary team, we are back in London after | :54:42. | :54:46. | |
the summer, a new team with a new team of workers. And I want to pay | :54:47. | :54:52. | |
tribute to them, as well. We have said goodbye to Elen Haf Roberts, | :54:53. | :55:01. | |
and I must say, and I can get away with this because I was a new MP, | :55:02. | :55:07. | |
they have really supported me. As a totally new and clueless MP. | :55:08. | :55:11. | |
Fighting a campaign is one thing, believe me, being an MP is something | :55:12. | :55:16. | |
else. And it was so good to have these people behind me. I have a | :55:17. | :55:27. | |
feeling that there was slight disappointment about losing the | :55:28. | :55:31. | |
gravitas of Elfyn Llwyd. He more than anyone helped me deal with the | :55:32. | :55:41. | |
bonkers protocol of Westminster. One Elin, to a great disappointment, has | :55:42. | :55:49. | |
left Westminster to join the team at Cardiff, and of course she will be | :55:50. | :55:57. | |
very welcome there. It is important to have support in Cardiff, as in | :55:58. | :56:01. | |
London. I am pleased now to have a new and excellent team in | :56:02. | :56:09. | |
Westminster. Last year, Osian Lewis came to us, and we have had new | :56:10. | :56:15. | |
members over the summer. We have a new employed officer for a year | :56:16. | :56:22. | |
through the speakers scheme, and Elizabeth Calmeros has joined us for | :56:23. | :56:31. | |
a term. Harry Fletcher, the expert on victim 's rights, is a Member of | :56:32. | :56:37. | |
the team, and he brings years of experience. I welcome each and every | :56:38. | :56:42. | |
one to the committee. I hope some are in the hall, and thank you, | :56:43. | :56:50. | |
thank you all of you. APPLAUSE. And if I go along that angle, I want | :56:51. | :56:55. | |
to thank everyone, but I must thank the people in the office. In order | :56:56. | :57:03. | |
to include everyone. I wouldn't be here if it wasn't true, I couldn't | :57:04. | :57:12. | |
go without your help in the office, that is certain. Of course much of | :57:13. | :57:18. | |
our work in recent months has involved the ongoing saga of | :57:19. | :57:22. | |
scuttling over semantics, grudging consent, missed opportunities and | :57:23. | :57:26. | |
barefaced rollback of powers that is the Wales Bill. Three years after | :57:27. | :57:32. | |
the Silk Commission recommendations, the UK Government finally published | :57:33. | :57:36. | |
its response in the Wales Bill, the fourth piece of primary legislation | :57:37. | :57:40. | |
in 18 years. Disappointingly but hardly surprisingly, the Bill was, | :57:41. | :57:46. | |
and remains, a long way from the practical consensus achieved by | :57:47. | :57:51. | |
Silk. Given that Paul Silke strove to gain consensus across all four | :57:52. | :57:55. | |
parties recommended it was only reasonable to accept expect the | :57:56. | :58:00. | |
Government to accept the report in its entirety. But the Saint Davids | :58:01. | :58:09. | |
Day process, insufficient to be named agreement, tour Silk apart, | :58:10. | :58:12. | |
cherry picking items which fitted the Tory agenda which didn't scare | :58:13. | :58:18. | |
Tory horses and departmental interests than discarded the rest | :58:19. | :58:22. | |
regardless of the needs of Wales. It was once again up to Plaid Cymru to | :58:23. | :58:26. | |
defend our country's interest in the Commons on the Lords. The Plaid | :58:27. | :58:31. | |
Cymru group, I am proud to say, was seen by most commentators to be by | :58:32. | :58:35. | |
far the most effective party in the debates on the Bill, to all effects | :58:36. | :58:39. | |
and purposes, we were the official opposition from Wales. Senedd Hywel | :58:40. | :58:50. | |
Jonathan and I said submitted a number of amendments alongside | :58:51. | :58:54. | |
silent and sometimes empty Labour benches. We forced votes in key | :58:55. | :58:58. | |
areas for Wales such as much resources, policing and the legal | :58:59. | :59:02. | |
jurisdiction, and why we secured the odd victory in some of the overly | :59:03. | :59:05. | |
restrictive drafting, our amendments to bring Wales into line with the | :59:06. | :59:10. | |
Commission's recommendations on the Scotland Act was stubbornly opposed | :59:11. | :59:17. | |
by the Tories. There were also largely ignored by Lebanon once | :59:18. | :59:20. | |
again refused to support our amendments. In the case of the | :59:21. | :59:25. | |
amendment proposing a compromise, distinctly legal jurisdiction, we | :59:26. | :59:29. | |
used exactly the same words as those in the alternative Wales Bill | :59:30. | :59:32. | |
provided by the label Welsh Government. To no avail. Somewhere | :59:33. | :59:37. | |
between so-called Welsh Labour and London Labour, there was a policy | :59:38. | :59:42. | |
somersault, a backward flip. Or perhaps it was Welsh Labour bowing | :59:43. | :59:46. | |
to their Westminster masters. Although the Bill as it stands does | :59:47. | :59:50. | |
indeed devolve some powers, which of course had to be welcomed, powers | :59:51. | :59:55. | |
such as fracking, electoral matters and somewhat as regards energy, it | :59:56. | :00:00. | |
also pulls powers back to Westminster. The Parliamentary team | :00:01. | :00:04. | |
will continue to work on the Bill as it progresses through the House of | :00:05. | :00:07. | |
Lords before it is handed to be Assembly team won the Westminster | :00:08. | :00:10. | |
Government seeks Assembly consent. And I would like to draw to a close | :00:11. | :00:16. | |
by assuring you today that your team in London will not under any | :00:17. | :00:21. | |
circumstances allow Westminster to silence Wales and carry out another | :00:22. | :00:26. | |
at Whitehall power grab. We will work diligently to empower our | :00:27. | :00:32. | |
Parliament, our nation and our people with a leave as we need, | :00:33. | :00:39. | |
leave as we once had, to forge our own future. We will argue over | :00:40. | :00:44. | |
obscure and arcane issues of jurisdiction and constitution, | :00:45. | :00:50. | |
minutiae spawned by the most anorak to political obsessives, and we will | :00:51. | :00:55. | |
do that to build up of body politic for the nation of Wales. But we will | :00:56. | :01:01. | |
never, never accept Westminster sophistry that undermines the | :01:02. | :01:04. | |
direction of our nation's travel to independence. Thank you very much. | :01:05. | :01:11. | |
From one sitting MP to a former MP who now sits in the assembly. We can | :01:12. | :01:17. | |
join Adam Price who is joining us live from London. I remember we had | :01:18. | :01:25. | |
quite a heated debate in our spring conference on this programme when | :01:26. | :01:29. | |
you promised there would be a political earthquake but it didn't | :01:30. | :01:31. | |
quite happen apart from some ground moving in the Rhondda. The | :01:32. | :01:39. | |
earthquake we did have was an unwelcome one, the referendum vote | :01:40. | :01:45. | |
which unfortunately has unleashed this tsunami of uncertainty we are | :01:46. | :01:51. | |
living through at the moment. That is something that all of us in Wales | :01:52. | :01:56. | |
are concerned about and that is why we need the kind of political | :01:57. | :02:00. | |
leadership that sadly we are still lacking at the moment in Cardiff | :02:01. | :02:03. | |
Bay. You deflected that question very well! One of the previous | :02:04. | :02:11. | |
speakers on stage this morning, Neil McEvoy, said your party needs to | :02:12. | :02:16. | |
take a serious look at yourself and he was making reference to the flux | :02:17. | :02:20. | |
of the other parties were in at the time of the assembly election. | :02:21. | :02:24. | |
Therefore you should have done much better than you did. I think Neil | :02:25. | :02:33. | |
McEvoy was referring to some of the areas where we did very well with it | :02:34. | :02:37. | |
was a huge swing from Labour to Plaid Cymru and he was making the | :02:38. | :02:42. | |
point that actually if we were able to repeat those successes in the | :02:43. | :02:47. | |
Rhondda, the near success we had in Blaenau Gwent and in Cardiff West, | :02:48. | :02:52. | |
that shows the platform is they and the appetite is there actually for | :02:53. | :02:56. | |
Plaid Cymru doing well at a national level which means that we can secure | :02:57. | :03:01. | |
the kind of earthquake that I was hoping for at the 2021 elections | :03:02. | :03:07. | |
when finally can get government that is led by a different party. On what | :03:08. | :03:15. | |
you call the unwelcome earthquake, you were on the wrong side of the | :03:16. | :03:20. | |
argument in June. Are you not on the wrong side of the argument this | :03:21. | :03:24. | |
time? You are calling the something which the Welsh people voted against | :03:25. | :03:27. | |
which is membership of the single market. I don't remember seeing that | :03:28. | :03:37. | |
on the ballot. It is a very small ballot vapour and in the small print | :03:38. | :03:42. | |
which might not have appeared on the ballot paper, people are wise enough | :03:43. | :03:47. | |
to know what they were voting for and membership of the single market | :03:48. | :03:52. | |
would have been one of those things. I don't think so. It is very | :03:53. | :03:58. | |
important we are clear about this. The problem we are now dealing with | :03:59. | :04:03. | |
was it was never spelt out what kind of Brexit was going to flow from | :04:04. | :04:11. | |
that decision. I don't believe that every single one of the 52% that | :04:12. | :04:18. | |
voted for Brexit were voting for a hard Brexit. You will have people on | :04:19. | :04:24. | |
the spectrum and some of them who voted to leave would have done so on | :04:25. | :04:29. | |
the basis of staying within the single market which is an option of | :04:30. | :04:32. | |
course. In terms of the Welsh economy, as we know we are one of | :04:33. | :04:38. | |
the most export intensive parts of the UK and the soul leaving the | :04:39. | :04:42. | |
single market is going to have a bigger impact upon jobs and | :04:43. | :04:46. | |
prosperity in Wales than most other parts of the UK. Obviously it is | :04:47. | :04:51. | |
something that is deeply concerning and speaking to businesses in line | :04:52. | :04:55. | |
ball in over the last few days they are deeply worried about the impact | :04:56. | :05:00. | |
and this is not some kind of abstract academic abating point, | :05:01. | :05:06. | |
this is going to affect people's livelihoods and we are right to say | :05:07. | :05:09. | |
we will not accept a hard Brexit being imposed upon us without | :05:10. | :05:15. | |
democratic accountability because it's not the kind of option Wales | :05:16. | :05:21. | |
deserves. What were people voting on then? If they were not voting on | :05:22. | :05:25. | |
leaving the single market -- market or controlling immigration, what was | :05:26. | :05:29. | |
the point of having the referendum in the first place? The referendum | :05:30. | :05:36. | |
was to leave the European Union. The political union. That decision is | :05:37. | :05:43. | |
done. That is clear. The question of what happens next, we have a range | :05:44. | :05:53. | |
of options and there are extreme Brexit here is calling for the | :05:54. | :05:57. | |
hardest possible Brexit. That was never presented as the only shown on | :05:58. | :06:06. | |
the table. They were many people arguing for a Brexit vote which said | :06:07. | :06:09. | |
don't worry we can stay inside the single market and have the best of | :06:10. | :06:13. | |
both worlds. This is the Boris Johnson line, wanting his cake and | :06:14. | :06:20. | |
eating it. This was part of the many falsehoods and lies unfortunately | :06:21. | :06:23. | |
that were at the heart of that campaign. It's not now acceptable to | :06:24. | :06:31. | |
say when we said you could come out of the EU but stay in the single | :06:32. | :06:37. | |
market we didn't mean it. When you are campaigning during the | :06:38. | :06:42. | |
referendum and knocking on doors, were people saying to you we want to | :06:43. | :06:51. | |
control immigration? I had many conversations during the referendum | :06:52. | :06:55. | |
campaign and I think to be honest with you migration came up on two or | :06:56. | :07:04. | |
three occasions. Only two people mentioned controlling immigration | :07:05. | :07:11. | |
during the campaign? Yes, in my case, that was not part of the | :07:12. | :07:15. | |
conversations I was having. It did come up during the assembly | :07:16. | :07:17. | |
campaign. They were more conversations on it then but during | :07:18. | :07:21. | |
the referendum campaign the conversations I had focused more on | :07:22. | :07:30. | |
the economy. I have a constituency which is a big agricultural sector | :07:31. | :07:33. | |
so it tended to focus on questions about the impact for example on our | :07:34. | :07:38. | |
farming sector and what it would mean in terms of access to the | :07:39. | :07:41. | |
single market. Maybe conversations in other parts of Wales and the | :07:42. | :07:45. | |
different profile but in my case it focused very much on the economic | :07:46. | :07:50. | |
impact. Can we turn to the talk that has been this week about a | :07:51. | :07:56. | |
coalition. Leanne Wood has said the party is genuinely torn on the | :07:57. | :07:59. | |
matter. Would I be right in thinking that you are one of the Plaid Cymru | :08:00. | :08:03. | |
Assembly Members who would be in favour of a coalition? I am already | :08:04. | :08:11. | |
on the record and my opinion changed after the Brexit vote because I feel | :08:12. | :08:16. | |
as if we are entering into one of the most uncertain chapters in our | :08:17. | :08:22. | |
history and I felt as a result of that we needed a united front if you | :08:23. | :08:30. | |
like in Wales in order for us to steer the ship through these | :08:31. | :08:33. | |
difficult times. I am in a minority though. I might be a name and I | :08:34. | :08:40. | |
accept that as a Democrat. You make your case within a party. How many | :08:41. | :08:57. | |
other members would be in favour? I am not going to do a roll call. But | :08:58. | :09:06. | |
you would not be the only one would you? I'm not going through a roll | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
call of members. There is a minority view within Plaid Cymru that would | :09:12. | :09:16. | |
like to strengthen and deepen the cooperation. There are some within | :09:17. | :09:22. | |
the party will think we should break the compact and moving to a more | :09:23. | :09:26. | |
conventional out and out opposition role. With the majority of our | :09:27. | :09:29. | |
members and supporters are at the moment is someone in the middle | :09:30. | :09:34. | |
which says we can being sponsored opposition, a constructive | :09:35. | :09:37. | |
opposition and we saw that through the combat with the deal on the | :09:38. | :09:41. | |
budget, that we should be holding the government to account. In areas | :09:42. | :09:45. | |
where we are working for the best interests of Wales the majority of | :09:46. | :09:49. | |
members and supporters feel we have got the balance right at the moment. | :09:50. | :09:53. | |
We are a Democratic party and this is a debate and discussion which | :09:54. | :09:58. | |
will continue and it will be the membership that will decide. That is | :09:59. | :10:02. | |
one of the great things about Plaid Cymru. It is a bottom-up grassroots | :10:03. | :10:08. | |
party. It will be the members who decide are we getting the balance | :10:09. | :10:11. | |
right in terms of holding the government to account and on the | :10:12. | :10:18. | |
other hand making sure we're Wales' national interest requires that we | :10:19. | :10:23. | |
do work together with other parties to secure the best you for Wales. On | :10:24. | :10:27. | |
the budget deal, hailed by you as the best ever secured by an | :10:28. | :10:32. | |
opposition party since the beginning of devolution, it is less than 1% of | :10:33. | :10:41. | |
the total budget. It is 0.79% of everything that the Welsh Government | :10:42. | :10:44. | |
spends. Is that the height of your ambition? Only about two or 3% of a | :10:45. | :10:54. | |
budget changes in any year. Most of the expenditure stays at the | :10:55. | :11:01. | |
existing level. Influences minimal isn't it? In that perspective it was | :11:02. | :11:07. | |
about a third of the changes made in this budget. It is not just me | :11:08. | :11:13. | |
saying it was the biggest 11, that is in -- an objective fact. If you | :11:14. | :11:20. | |
think betting ?20 million extra for mental health is irrelevant, talk to | :11:21. | :11:27. | |
people like I do, my constituents, who suffer with mental health | :11:28. | :11:30. | |
problems. The gap problems in terms of Child and adolescent mental | :11:31. | :11:36. | |
health. This is the core of what democratic politics should be about. | :11:37. | :11:42. | |
Responding to people's needs. Using the power and influence you have to | :11:43. | :11:48. | |
make life better for the citizens of Wales. I am proud of the deal we | :11:49. | :11:54. | |
secured. We started to close the funding gap in and colleges in Wales | :11:55. | :11:59. | |
can pay to England. A ?76 million funding gap and we have got a ?30 | :12:00. | :12:05. | |
million increase which is a major step forward in reinvesting in our | :12:06. | :12:09. | |
knowledge base. That is the kind of thing I went into politics for. It | :12:10. | :12:14. | |
is what my country should be all about. Using the levers we have to | :12:15. | :12:18. | |
make life better for the citizens of our country. Adam Price, thank you. | :12:19. | :12:26. | |
The future of steel-making in Wales has been at the forefront of | :12:27. | :12:28. | |
politicians mind for some months. The Tata steel site is in the region | :12:29. | :12:36. | |
represented by Bethan Jenkins and she shared the debate on | :12:37. | :12:41. | |
strengthening the industry. This year has been a tempestuous one for | :12:42. | :12:45. | |
Welsh industry. But since the closure of the last of our minds | :12:46. | :12:51. | |
have we faced times like this. First, the real threat of the | :12:52. | :12:54. | |
closure of the Tata steel works in my own constituency. It has been | :12:55. | :12:59. | |
estimated that our steel industry and supplied the pens on it | :13:00. | :13:05. | |
employers many as 18,000 people in Wales. This would represent a huge | :13:06. | :13:10. | |
loss to Wales. Perhaps when our economy would find it hard to | :13:11. | :13:13. | |
recover from and certainly one that would devastate towns like Port | :13:14. | :13:20. | |
Talbot, Llanelli and Shotton. Of course we have not got to that point | :13:21. | :13:23. | |
yet and we will not, we will fight it. Plaid Cymru's track record is | :13:24. | :13:30. | |
supporting our industry and we need to intensify our support | :13:31. | :13:32. | |
across-the-board. Then there is Brexit. We have been told that with | :13:33. | :13:39. | |
huge amounts of trade going to Europe how will this affect our | :13:40. | :13:43. | |
export earnings? Will it lead to job losses or will the weak pound offset | :13:44. | :13:49. | |
any of those expected losses? And could we find markets elsewhere in | :13:50. | :13:53. | |
the world? Here to discuss all of that with me are three experts in | :13:54. | :13:56. | |
their own right. Firstly we have Adam Price who is the party's shadow | :13:57. | :14:04. | |
finance and economy spokesperson. Adam spent time between parliaments | :14:05. | :14:08. | |
in the field of innovation so he can provide you with well experienced | :14:09. | :14:13. | |
knowledge in this field. As can Nigel Copner on the right of me. | :14:14. | :14:18. | |
Many of you will know Nigel from his heroic efforts in nearly capturing | :14:19. | :14:23. | |
Blaenau Gwent four Plaid Cymru in May's assembly elections. Next time. | :14:24. | :14:32. | |
He is also the founder member of research and innovation centre. The | :14:33. | :14:40. | |
chair of electronics at the University of South Wales and has | :14:41. | :14:44. | |
worked in Silicon Valley. And lastly we have Scott Pansy who is a | :14:45. | :14:52. | |
fourth-generation steelworker. As a shop steward he can also bring his | :14:53. | :14:57. | |
union if as well as a view from inside the industry. If you could | :14:58. | :15:05. | |
all please welcome our guests. I am going to start with Nigel. We are | :15:06. | :15:11. | |
all talking about Brexit but we can not talk about it. What is Brexit | :15:12. | :15:21. | |
mean for Welsh industry? We were all taken by surprise with the result. | :15:22. | :15:26. | |
We are concerned about the convergence funding loss which is | :15:27. | :15:30. | |
half a billion a year to Wales. Although that money might not have | :15:31. | :15:33. | |
been spent in the best way to encourage businesses it was there. | :15:34. | :15:40. | |
We are also aware that Wales exports about 30 billion a year, 35% to | :15:41. | :15:48. | |
Europe. Is that going to be jeopardised? Do we go for a soft or | :15:49. | :15:54. | |
hard Brexit? I refer you back to the great depression when Hoover brought | :15:55. | :16:00. | |
in a tariff and created a trade war and the tariffs escalated as a | :16:01. | :16:03. | |
result the recession turned into a great depression. | :16:04. | :16:09. | |
There is no doubt we need trade agreements within the single market | :16:10. | :16:17. | |
after Brexit. It is widely recognised, with all the concerns we | :16:18. | :16:23. | |
have around Brexit, one of the key issues for the economy going forward | :16:24. | :16:28. | |
is the uncertainty. It is the lack of confidence. That overrides most | :16:29. | :16:34. | |
things. And I think it is absolutely essential that Plaid takes a lead to | :16:35. | :16:40. | |
ensure we have the courage, a coherent plan, and create certainty | :16:41. | :16:44. | |
in the transitioning, moving out of Europe. That is absolutely | :16:45. | :16:48. | |
essential, and within that I obviously support the soft Brexit | :16:49. | :16:51. | |
route and being part of the single market. Thank you, Adam. Obviously, | :16:52. | :17:01. | |
we are a very export intensive economy. We are almost unique in | :17:02. | :17:11. | |
having such an incredibly large trade surplus in goods at a time, of | :17:12. | :17:17. | |
course, when the UK as a whole has a massive trade deficit and has done | :17:18. | :17:21. | |
over many decades. We are still positive exporters, which | :17:22. | :17:29. | |
contributes about 10% to our overall GPA. So having a hit on that would | :17:30. | :17:36. | |
have an immediate effect in terms of Welsh prosperity. We must protect | :17:37. | :17:41. | |
that position, which is why being inside the single market is -- is of | :17:42. | :17:45. | |
such vital strategic importance to Welsh industry. In practical terms, | :17:46. | :17:50. | |
if we are outside the customs union, then you face tariffs and everything | :17:51. | :17:55. | |
else, and by the way, you are in the WTO then, which is actually a far | :17:56. | :18:00. | |
more -- far more likely to challenge things like subsidies. People think | :18:01. | :18:04. | |
if you are outside the EU you don't have state aid problems. The World | :18:05. | :18:09. | |
Trade Organisation has state aid rules which are much more stringent | :18:10. | :18:13. | |
than those in the EU. The EU have been able to carve out of position | :18:14. | :18:17. | |
in relation to those, and if you are not in the single market, what | :18:18. | :18:22. | |
happens, practically, as an exporter, your goods will arrive at | :18:23. | :18:26. | |
the borders of the European Union, and because they do not conform to | :18:27. | :18:32. | |
the regulations and standards, whether a piece of electronics | :18:33. | :18:40. | |
Raqqa, etc, than they will be held back for two or three weeks possibly | :18:41. | :18:43. | |
while they are sent off to be tested. Every batch would have to be | :18:44. | :18:48. | |
tested by the National standards Institute of the country in | :18:49. | :18:52. | |
question, and does Nigel will know, we live in a world of just in time | :18:53. | :18:58. | |
logistics. When you are involved in these very, very intricate | :18:59. | :19:03. | |
international global supply chains, actually having something waiting in | :19:04. | :19:06. | |
some port in the Netherlands for three weeks, you are not going to | :19:07. | :19:12. | |
get that contract again. If you are an intermediate supplier, as a small | :19:13. | :19:16. | |
manufacturing firm, you can forget it. Why would the original equipment | :19:17. | :19:22. | |
Manufacturer by themselves that kind of headache? And all the customs | :19:23. | :19:26. | |
papers of course would have to be done on top of that. It will be a | :19:27. | :19:31. | |
massive headache to every export business in Wales, and we would take | :19:32. | :19:34. | |
a massive hit on our prosperity, which is why we have two insist that | :19:35. | :19:39. | |
Wales remains within the single market. And if the deal is being | :19:40. | :19:43. | |
offered to Scotland and Northern Ireland as has been suggested, maybe | :19:44. | :19:48. | |
we need to create a Celtic union, where, if England wants to be | :19:49. | :19:52. | |
outside the single market, than I am a Democrat, that is a choice they | :19:53. | :19:58. | |
make, and certainly if there is an opportunity for us to bring me on | :19:59. | :20:01. | |
side we should take it as well -- bring Theresa May on side. This is | :20:02. | :20:10. | |
Adam's Way! Moving to Scott. What does Brexit mean for us? It has | :20:11. | :20:17. | |
added more uncertainty to an already difficult situation for us. Did many | :20:18. | :20:21. | |
steelworkers vote for Brexit, your colleagues? That was a worrying | :20:22. | :20:26. | |
thing, we had Government and trade unions advising us all to vote | :20:27. | :20:32. | |
Remain, but surprisingly, a lot of steel workers voted out. They have | :20:33. | :20:38. | |
their own reasons, but some of them still regret their decision, but it | :20:39. | :20:43. | |
is adding uncertainty to us. What was alarming to me was, the | :20:44. | :20:49. | |
prestigious product we produce is for Nissan in nota motives. That is | :20:50. | :20:56. | |
what we are proud of and where our profit margins. 62% in Sunderland | :20:57. | :21:01. | |
voted to Leave but 8000 work in the Nissan plant. Nissan have said if we | :21:02. | :21:05. | |
are not in the single market they would look to leave Britain which | :21:06. | :21:08. | |
would have a knock-on effect for steel, but that is an example of | :21:09. | :21:12. | |
manufacturing as a whole. These companies, once we are not in the | :21:13. | :21:15. | |
single market they will not think twice, they will be gone. This is | :21:16. | :21:19. | |
really worrying from the steel point of view, but for the UK and Wales, | :21:20. | :21:25. | |
we are in real trouble there. Also from steel, a large present about -- | :21:26. | :21:30. | |
percentage of the steel we produce is exported to Europe so we use the | :21:31. | :21:33. | |
single market and could lose all those orders. Again it is adding | :21:34. | :21:40. | |
more uncertainty. We don't know what the future holds, but I agree, I | :21:41. | :21:46. | |
think we need to stay in the single market. That was Bethan Jenkins and | :21:47. | :21:51. | |
others on the future of the steel industry here in Wales. Our | :21:52. | :21:55. | |
political editor Nick Servini if our eyes and ears at the conference. | :21:56. | :22:00. | |
Good morning, Nick. Pretty strong words this morning both ways on this | :22:01. | :22:04. | |
possibility of a coalition between Plaid and Labour. There have been, | :22:05. | :22:11. | |
and I think it will be an interesting day today. Fair to say, | :22:12. | :22:16. | |
slightly muted atmosphere here so far. A range of factors, probably a | :22:17. | :22:22. | |
reflection of uncertainty surrounding Brexit, also probably | :22:23. | :22:24. | |
reflecting on the fact that we haven't heard from Leanne Wood yet. | :22:25. | :22:28. | |
This time last year at this stage of the conference we had had a speech | :22:29. | :22:32. | |
from Leanne Wood in Aberystwyth and Nicola Sturgeon here addressing | :22:33. | :22:36. | |
Plaid Cymru. None of that yet, we will have Leanne Wood this | :22:37. | :22:43. | |
afternoon. She didn't want to clash with the Aberfan commemorations | :22:44. | :22:45. | |
yesterday, understandably I suppose. A lot of action here today and you | :22:46. | :22:54. | |
are right, it kicked off with Neal McEvoy, an Assembly Member who | :22:55. | :22:56. | |
brings something different to the party, there is no one quite like | :22:57. | :23:00. | |
Neal McEvoy in Plaid Cymru are possibly ever has been in the past, | :23:01. | :23:05. | |
and with regards to the issue of the coalition, let me give you a very | :23:06. | :23:10. | |
flavour of some of the things he said. He talks about a small | :23:11. | :23:14. | |
minority within Plaid Cymru interested in going into coalition | :23:15. | :23:19. | |
with Labour, and quotes "They would take one for the team." But he is | :23:20. | :23:24. | |
very much on the opposite side of the fence on this, saying they | :23:25. | :23:31. | |
should grade them down, challenge Labour, so at the moment we have | :23:32. | :23:38. | |
this situation where the party is in opposition, abrasively so, | :23:39. | :23:40. | |
aggressive in its criticism, but at the same time striking deals with | :23:41. | :23:44. | |
Labour and as we saw a couple of days ago, the biggest budget deal | :23:45. | :23:48. | |
the party has ever done with Labour, but Neil McEvoy is the view that | :23:49. | :23:52. | |
Plaid should have nothing to do with Labour, and they are not, in his | :23:53. | :23:57. | |
words, "A pressure group designed to move Labour money around the system | :23:58. | :24:04. | |
so fundamental reappraisal of where the current situation is. So the | :24:05. | :24:10. | |
question is, is he representative? No doubt you are talking about it | :24:11. | :24:14. | |
already and will lead out throughout the day, how representative he is of | :24:15. | :24:20. | |
. If you look at conference, in terms of the motions going across | :24:21. | :24:27. | |
before, there aren't a huge stage of motions at the moment pushing | :24:28. | :24:30. | |
towards coalitions and there aren't a huge swathe of motions in the Neil | :24:31. | :24:35. | |
McEvoy direction, either. Wanting to roll back and have nothing to do | :24:36. | :24:38. | |
with Labour. Which would suggest maybe Leanne Wood's position at the | :24:39. | :24:44. | |
moment, and the current leadership, is broadly reflective of where the | :24:45. | :24:50. | |
party years. But of course that could change. Primarily, I think, | :24:51. | :24:54. | |
because of Brexit, and that really is what everyone is talking about. | :24:55. | :24:59. | |
And on Brexit I'm sure Leanne Wood will flush them of these ideas out | :25:00. | :25:05. | |
this afternoon -- flesh out. Key to Plaid 's stances maintaining | :25:06. | :25:12. | |
membership of the single market and also the Welsh Government or Wales | :25:13. | :25:15. | |
having a representative at the top table when it comes to negotiations. | :25:16. | :25:23. | |
The survey would suggest no on both accounts, no says, or no membership | :25:24. | :25:31. | |
of the single market, and no reputation for Wales on the top | :25:32. | :25:35. | |
table. Do they have a plan B? That is right, it is very difficult. I | :25:36. | :25:42. | |
think the call to be on the top table, to some extent, expected. The | :25:43. | :25:47. | |
other call is that a real fight for the constitutional side of things | :25:48. | :25:51. | |
with the fear of a power grab, with the powers that come from Brussels, | :25:52. | :25:55. | |
when they go to Westminster, do they go to Cardiff or not? And of course | :25:56. | :25:59. | |
the single market and membership of it. Sian Gwenllian this morning, AM | :26:00. | :26:11. | |
for Arfon, was talking about the difference between Plaid and Labour | :26:12. | :26:15. | |
on this. It is one of the most divisive issues in terms of the post | :26:16. | :26:20. | |
Brexit responds in Welsh politics at the moment, so Carwyn Jones's | :26:21. | :26:23. | |
fundamental premise, and I think he is similar to Theresia me on this, | :26:24. | :26:31. | |
Wales 52% Leave, if it tells us anything, it is a message from the | :26:32. | :26:35. | |
public to politicians that something needs to be done about immigration. | :26:36. | :26:40. | |
That of course sends you down a route which means continued | :26:41. | :26:43. | |
membership of the single market looks very difficult. And so, Plaid | :26:44. | :26:49. | |
are, and I have heard it so many times yesterday, speech after | :26:50. | :26:55. | |
speech, Rhun Ap Iorwerth, Hywel Williams, staking this claim of | :26:56. | :27:01. | |
membership of the single market, it is a fundamental belief for Plaid in | :27:02. | :27:05. | |
the way they will approach these negotiations, but of course it does | :27:06. | :27:09. | |
mean giving up control on immigration, so then, inevitably, | :27:10. | :27:13. | |
you ask the question, are they in denial, Abe in touch with the | :27:14. | :27:18. | |
reality of the majority of people in Wales who surely, when they voted to | :27:19. | :27:22. | |
leave the EU, did so knowing full well that it would entail leaving | :27:23. | :27:28. | |
the single market as well? And what Leanne Wood has been saying, and no | :27:29. | :27:32. | |
doubt will reflect in his speech later, was that that there was all | :27:33. | :27:38. | |
kinds of reasons people voted to Leave, paddling pools in your local | :27:39. | :27:43. | |
area, disillusionment with politics and immigration as well, but to | :27:44. | :27:47. | |
somehow pick out immigration as the main area that needs to be dealt | :27:48. | :27:51. | |
with is, in her assessment of it, the wrong thing to do, so as a | :27:52. | :27:56. | |
result, retaining single market membership is still doable. The | :27:57. | :28:02. | |
problem she will have is, this idea that immigration is equivalent to | :28:03. | :28:05. | |
issues like austerity and other concerns, when she knows, and you | :28:06. | :28:11. | |
and I were out with cameras in the referendum campaign, so many people | :28:12. | :28:15. | |
in Wales were talking about concerns about immigration. Nick, thank you, | :28:16. | :28:18. | |
you have teed up our next contributor very neatly, because... | :28:19. | :28:26. | |
I thought we were going to talking about Brexit. We will go elsewhere. | :28:27. | :28:32. | |
Plaid Cymru happened the first time two police and crime commissioners, | :28:33. | :28:37. | |
Arfon Jones in North Wales, and in his speech yesterday he outlined his | :28:38. | :28:43. | |
priorities. TRANSLATION: Reducing reoffending is one of the main areas | :28:44. | :28:47. | |
of policing, and in order to do that, we must work in partnership to | :28:48. | :28:53. | |
prevent crime. One of the pioneering projects in this respect is a | :28:54. | :29:00. | |
project to help children where their parents are imprisoned. Resettlement | :29:01. | :29:04. | |
of prisoners back in the community, and preventing reoffending, it | :29:05. | :29:09. | |
depends very much on the help offered to children and families. If | :29:10. | :29:17. | |
they can re-establish relationships, they are less likely to offend | :29:18. | :29:22. | |
again. There is another good reason for helping the children of | :29:23. | :29:29. | |
prisoners. 65% of children with a father in prison go on to offend | :29:30. | :29:34. | |
themselves. Children with a parent in prison are also twice as likely | :29:35. | :29:39. | |
as other children to have mental health problems. And also, they are | :29:40. | :29:44. | |
less likely to do well in school, and more likely to be excluded. | :29:45. | :29:50. | |
There is an opportunity to break this vicious circle, and we shall | :29:51. | :29:59. | |
seek to ensure that services are available to break this. One of the | :30:00. | :30:03. | |
best example of this is what is going on in Parc Prison in Bridgend. | :30:04. | :30:12. | |
In conclusion, policing is changing all the time. Technology changes | :30:13. | :30:17. | |
mean we can respond quickly and rapidly, but it also means they run | :30:18. | :30:21. | |
new sorts of crime, cyber crime and so on. Things have changed so much | :30:22. | :30:25. | |
that the likelihood of suffering from online crime is more than I | :30:26. | :30:35. | |
would call traditional crime. I believe strongly that policing must | :30:36. | :30:44. | |
move with the times, and we must therefore move with the times in | :30:45. | :30:49. | |
technology to enable our front-line staff. People want to see police | :30:50. | :30:53. | |
officers in the community. This gives them more confidence, although | :30:54. | :30:57. | |
of course, there is a lot of work to be done in technology as well. In a | :30:58. | :31:03. | |
time of cuts, we must all use our time wisely, well and effectively, | :31:04. | :31:08. | |
without forgetting the things that are really important to our | :31:09. | :31:10. | |
communities. Thank you for listening. | :31:11. | :31:16. | |
Everybody else is talking about Brexit so let's talk about it for a | :31:17. | :31:24. | |
few minutes. On the Plaid Cymru wish list it seems as though little of it | :31:25. | :31:28. | |
will be delivered by the UK Government. Membership of the single | :31:29. | :31:33. | |
market and a seat at the top table. How problematic is that? I think you | :31:34. | :31:38. | |
have to go back one step before that to realise why Plaid Cymru is taking | :31:39. | :31:44. | |
the stands it is. Regardless of the economic arguments the point is the | :31:45. | :31:51. | |
party asked to accept the result of the referendum but they are also | :31:52. | :31:55. | |
representing their supporters and if you look at the academic work that | :31:56. | :31:59. | |
has been done since the referendum what you'll find is that Plaid Cymru | :32:00. | :32:03. | |
voters were overwhelmingly in favour of remaining in the UK -- in the EU. | :32:04. | :32:17. | |
So they are representing if you like the remain constituency in Wales and | :32:18. | :32:22. | |
are looking for the minimum possible Brexit because that is what this | :32:23. | :32:26. | |
borders on. Carwyn Jones on the other hand is dealing with a | :32:27. | :32:30. | |
situation where yes the majority of Labour voters vote to remain but | :32:31. | :32:36. | |
there was also a substantial minority particularly in traditional | :32:37. | :32:38. | |
Labour strongholds who voted to leave and that is why his stance has | :32:39. | :32:42. | |
been driven by a different political set of questions. So Plaid Cymru | :32:43. | :32:47. | |
pitching themselves as the party for the remain as, not only depending on | :32:48. | :32:53. | |
their own voters to stay loyal to them but also trying to entice | :32:54. | :32:56. | |
people from outside the party in because of the stands they are | :32:57. | :33:02. | |
taking? That's right but again when needs to take a bit of care because | :33:03. | :33:08. | |
despite the polls and the academic work shows that Plaid Cymru voters | :33:09. | :33:12. | |
were in favour of remain you have to look at some of the places where | :33:13. | :33:15. | |
Plaid Cymru did very well like the Rhondda and Blaenau Gwent in the | :33:16. | :33:19. | |
assembly elections aren't those areas voted overwhelmingly to leave. | :33:20. | :33:25. | |
So it's not quite as straightforward as it appeals -- appears from the | :33:26. | :33:33. | |
research. Plaid Cymru are not in the sort of quandary that the | :33:34. | :33:36. | |
Conservatives or Labour Ardennes where they have a large minority of | :33:37. | :33:39. | |
their voters that they need to appease. And to what extent is | :33:40. | :33:46. | |
Leanne Wood's hand that much weaker than that of Nicola Sturgeon bearing | :33:47. | :33:54. | |
in mind the result in Wales was very different to the one in Scotland. | :33:55. | :33:58. | |
Leanne Wood's and is incredibly weak. Nicola Sturgeon is the First | :33:59. | :34:03. | |
Minister and is running the government and she is running the | :34:04. | :34:07. | |
government of the country which voted to remain. So there is no | :34:08. | :34:13. | |
comparison between that and a leader of a party that is not in government | :34:14. | :34:18. | |
who is trying to influence a Welsh Government which does not have a | :34:19. | :34:22. | |
very strong hand anyway because of the way Wales voted in the | :34:23. | :34:26. | |
referendum. She is in a weak position but Plaid Cymru would say | :34:27. | :34:29. | |
we can't sing nothing about this, we have to see what we think. The | :34:30. | :34:32. | |
accusation levelled at them is that they are shedding their ears to the | :34:33. | :34:38. | |
concerns of people on the doorstep about free movement of people. We | :34:39. | :34:43. | |
heard Adam Price said he only had two conversations about the matter | :34:44. | :34:48. | |
during the referendum campaign. You can say they were shutting very as | :34:49. | :34:52. | |
and there is an element of that but on the other hand it was 52 against | :34:53. | :35:03. | |
48 and you can't assume that all 52 voted that way because of | :35:04. | :35:10. | |
immigration. That is not the case. So there is wriggle room for the | :35:11. | :35:15. | |
party but there is a question come next May when we have local | :35:16. | :35:19. | |
elections of how this sort of stance will go down in places that Plaid | :35:20. | :35:23. | |
Cymru controlled the past like Rhondda Cynon Taff and Caerphilly. | :35:24. | :35:27. | |
It will be interesting to see the Ukip fills some of the space Plaid | :35:28. | :35:33. | |
Cymru took in those areas. We have heard from one council leader and | :35:34. | :35:36. | |
there is another one on stage now, the leader of Gwynedd cancel. -- | :35:37. | :35:42. | |
cancel. The period has been rich for | :35:43. | :35:59. | |
Gwynedd, four Plaid Cymru and for Wales. And I believe that experience | :36:00. | :36:06. | |
from this period of government that it holds us to consider. The first | :36:07. | :36:12. | |
thing to stresses that the ambition of all political parties at whatever | :36:13. | :36:19. | |
level is to be in government. That in order to implement a programme of | :36:20. | :36:23. | |
policies which will create a better world for our citizens. We make a | :36:24. | :36:29. | |
difference by leading and winning power and acting. Being in | :36:30. | :36:36. | |
opposition can be comfortable in short -- I am sure. And a nice place | :36:37. | :36:46. | |
to be but in Gwynedd we have never decided that this is our aim. We | :36:47. | :36:51. | |
want to be in power. It has not been easy. But government should not be | :36:52. | :37:03. | |
easy. It means being brave, being enterprising, being creative, | :37:04. | :37:06. | |
smashing old systems and building new ones. Discussing politics and | :37:07. | :37:13. | |
ideas is completely meaningless unless it leads to a programme of | :37:14. | :37:20. | |
action in government. And governing for the majority. Not a minority. A | :37:21. | :37:28. | |
discourse with the whole population, speaking with everyone not just the | :37:29. | :37:33. | |
selected few. Not campaigning for the benefits of any elite but | :37:34. | :37:40. | |
creating a context where everyone can be included and fulfil their | :37:41. | :37:46. | |
potential. The danger with political parties always is for them to speak | :37:47. | :37:54. | |
with ourselves and ourselves only. To build a consensus around the | :37:55. | :37:59. | |
truth that we create campaigning and creating policies that comfort us | :38:00. | :38:05. | |
that the reality of life can be quite different. Our intention is to | :38:06. | :38:13. | |
recognise the contribution of everyone and create a Gwynedd for | :38:14. | :38:18. | |
tomorrow, a Gwynedd which recognises the traditions of yesterday but | :38:19. | :38:21. | |
which is out also in order to create the new Gwynedd. To continue to | :38:22. | :38:28. | |
develop and step forward confidently we need to reinvent ourselves | :38:29. | :38:34. | |
continually, to challenge ourselves, to question ourselves and to create | :38:35. | :38:44. | |
new traditions. We must look at the mirror of Gwynedd that we are | :38:45. | :38:50. | |
seeking to create. Just and fair for everyone regardless. We define | :38:51. | :38:57. | |
ourselves as a Plaid Cymru council in Gwynedd according to what we are | :38:58. | :39:03. | |
in favour not what we are against, what we seek to build in Gwynedd. We | :39:04. | :39:13. | |
don't want a fort in the West but a lighthouse for the whole of Wales. | :39:14. | :39:19. | |
Gwynedd today is a collection of communities which is a microcosm of | :39:20. | :39:23. | |
the rest of Wales. Communities in needs, and the pressure, but | :39:24. | :39:26. | |
communities are full of opportunity to create hope we must not satisfied | :39:27. | :39:33. | |
ourselves with recreating the past but show the possibilities of a new | :39:34. | :39:38. | |
world. Conservatism is not the basis for our future but enterprise and | :39:39. | :39:48. | |
confidence and all this with our basic belief in justice. That is why | :39:49. | :39:54. | |
we have pushed the boundaries of the Welsh language in Gwynedd in order | :39:55. | :39:58. | |
to create a sustainable future for it. Since its establishment about | :39:59. | :40:05. | |
6000 children and young people have been through our pioneering language | :40:06. | :40:11. | |
centres creating new Welsh speakers. Yes, 6000. That is the third largest | :40:12. | :40:20. | |
town in Gwynedd by now. The first centre was established in the 1980s | :40:21. | :40:25. | |
and since then they have made a key contribution to ensuring that | :40:26. | :40:27. | |
children and young people who don't speak Welsh have an opportunity to | :40:28. | :40:33. | |
embrace the language. And with the challenge of promoting the use of | :40:34. | :40:36. | |
Welsh amongst young children and young people in our schools the | :40:37. | :40:41. | |
Gwynedd schools language charter was established. This is a scheme which | :40:42. | :40:46. | |
gives ownership of the use of the language socially with the children | :40:47. | :40:50. | |
and the young people themselves forming it. Creating a context which | :40:51. | :40:56. | |
showed an of all backgrounds can feel confident in speaking. Welsh | :40:57. | :41:03. | |
will succeed as we create a positive and hopeful context for it. Where | :41:04. | :41:12. | |
everyone can be a champion whatever his or her skills audibility. | :41:13. | :41:19. | |
Indeed, some of the non-Welsh speakers are some of the best | :41:20. | :41:23. | |
champions as they support their children in becoming bilingual. His | :41:24. | :41:31. | |
-- the history of Welsh and D would be very different word of the | :41:32. | :41:34. | |
contribution of our schools, governors, teachers appearance and | :41:35. | :41:41. | |
children. We have to thank them all but we need to be thankful also that | :41:42. | :41:45. | |
we have had the opportunity to implement progressive policies, | :41:46. | :41:51. | |
policies that some other councils in Wales are now emanating. Gwynedd has | :41:52. | :42:00. | |
adopted the language as the mainland which of administration, as a major | :42:01. | :42:04. | |
employer we have an opportunity to focus on this. The Welsh line with | :42:05. | :42:14. | |
will become alive as we use it in all situations. This is how to | :42:15. | :42:19. | |
create a natural community for the Welshman which with the positive | :42:20. | :42:24. | |
support for workforce at all levels across the council. And it's not a | :42:25. | :42:31. | |
matter of making the mainland and institution but rather a recognition | :42:32. | :42:38. | |
that our workforce of 6000 live in our communities and make a key | :42:39. | :42:41. | |
contribution to the future of the county. Ensuring advantageous fact | :42:42. | :42:47. | |
is for the language within the Council has an influence on the | :42:48. | :42:50. | |
status of the language in our towns and villages. It creates confidence | :42:51. | :42:59. | |
and expectations. We say to the rest of the public sector in the county | :43:00. | :43:06. | |
to follow our example and implement policies to promote the language in | :43:07. | :43:11. | |
all aspects of the institutions. Gwynedd cancel can achieve much but | :43:12. | :43:16. | |
we can achieve even more in partnership with the rest of the | :43:17. | :43:20. | |
public sector locally and similarly with the rest of the councillors of | :43:21. | :43:26. | |
Wales. Our message is that we can make a difference, we can be | :43:27. | :43:31. | |
champions for the Welsh and which, you can create hope for the Welsh | :43:32. | :43:37. | |
and which. It is possible to create a change for the better and if the | :43:38. | :43:42. | |
Welsh language is to continue as the mainland which of our communities as | :43:43. | :43:46. | |
well as in the council certainly the challenge facing us is to ensure | :43:47. | :43:54. | |
infrastructure for the language and create those social conditions that | :43:55. | :43:57. | |
we need in order for the language to prosper and ensure a supply of | :43:58. | :44:03. | |
affordable housing, varied good quality jobs to promote a vibrant | :44:04. | :44:12. | |
social life. The leader of Gwynedd cancel their talking live on stage. | :44:13. | :44:15. | |
Let's head out of the conference hall for a minute. Let's see who our | :44:16. | :44:26. | |
reporter is chatting to. I am joined by two more familiar faces from | :44:27. | :44:29. | |
Plaid Cymru, Jill Evans a member of the European Parliament and the | :44:30. | :44:34. | |
Griffith the Assembly Member and spokesman on education. Let's talk | :44:35. | :44:40. | |
about the party's stance on wrecks it. Let's have a personal take from | :44:41. | :44:46. | |
you on what it's been like being a member of the European Parliament | :44:47. | :44:49. | |
from the UK and appeared yet since the referendum. In the sense that I | :44:50. | :44:54. | |
am still there representing the people of Wales and will be until | :44:55. | :45:02. | |
the day the UK leaves the EU, the whole focus of my work has not | :45:03. | :45:05. | |
changed which is to get the best possible deal for the people of | :45:06. | :45:11. | |
Wales from the EU. But the whole context has changed. Within the | :45:12. | :45:18. | |
Parliament certainly there is a lot of goodwill and a lot of support and | :45:19. | :45:21. | |
people are very sad that Wales will be leaving. There is certainly no | :45:22. | :45:27. | |
animosity. Do you feel marginalised? Not that the moment. I think people | :45:28. | :45:34. | |
want to still include Wales and summary people have said to me that | :45:35. | :45:38. | |
Europe won't be the same without Wales. The value our input, not just | :45:39. | :45:45. | |
what Wales has got out of Europe but also what we have contributed. I | :45:46. | :45:50. | |
think sadness is the overwhelming feeling. | :45:51. | :46:00. | |
In terms of the Brexit negotiations you are clear that you would like | :46:01. | :46:06. | |
the Welsh Government to make the argument to stay as a Member of the | :46:07. | :46:12. | |
single market. Tied up with that is continued free movement of people. | :46:13. | :46:15. | |
Is that your interpretation, would that remain at the same level of | :46:16. | :46:21. | |
movement of people around the single market? I can't see a situation | :46:22. | :46:25. | |
where full membership of that market wouldn't would be allowed -- would | :46:26. | :46:33. | |
be allowed without allowing other aspects and you can't have your cake | :46:34. | :46:38. | |
and eat it. That is the analogy. I feel passionately in terms of | :46:39. | :46:43. | |
education particularly, we have 5500 EU students in Wales accounting for | :46:44. | :46:48. | |
nearly 7500 full-time equivalent jobs in Wales so not only on a | :46:49. | :46:54. | |
cultural level in terms of academic contribution, but economically as | :46:55. | :46:57. | |
well, let's think about the 7500 jobs in Wales because of those EU | :46:58. | :47:03. | |
students. So you say maintaining the same levels of EU immigration would | :47:04. | :47:06. | |
be a good thing, but doesn't that go against what people voted on from | :47:07. | :47:13. | |
Wales in the referendum on leaving the EU? I think the reasons people | :47:14. | :47:18. | |
voted are very complex, but there is no doubt that the free movement of | :47:19. | :47:24. | |
people as benefited Wales. But people were concerned about | :47:25. | :47:28. | |
immigration, weren't they? People are concerned about immigration, but | :47:29. | :47:34. | |
I don't think we had a real debate about the problems there are in | :47:35. | :47:38. | |
Wales, and there are many problems, of course, there are very poor | :47:39. | :47:43. | |
communities in Wales, and they feel disenfranchised, and they were | :47:44. | :47:47. | |
making a protest against the establishment. But the solution to | :47:48. | :47:53. | |
those problems is not in restricting free movement or even necessarily | :47:54. | :47:59. | |
concerned with Europe. You might be accused, really, if ignoring the | :48:00. | :48:03. | |
message given by the Welsh people here on immigration. You are saying | :48:04. | :48:09. | |
you know better, that those concerns shouldn't be addressed. I am not | :48:10. | :48:12. | |
saying we know better. I am saying if you look at the statistics and | :48:13. | :48:19. | |
the facts, immigrants make net contribution to the tax take in this | :48:20. | :48:24. | |
country so off we are seriously need to understand the implications to | :48:25. | :48:26. | |
close our borders the way some people would like us to do. I am not | :48:27. | :48:32. | |
willing to do that because I believe it would have a huge impact, not | :48:33. | :48:36. | |
just economically but the way we provide many services in this | :48:37. | :48:40. | |
country. So it wasn't on the ballot paper and neither was leaving the | :48:41. | :48:45. | |
single market, by the way. So let's not jump to conclusions. I | :48:46. | :48:48. | |
understand there are concerns but I would also say, look beyond the | :48:49. | :48:52. | |
headlines on the sound bites, because there are real issues at | :48:53. | :48:56. | |
stake. Can I ask you both briefly about an issue that has been | :48:57. | :49:03. | |
discussed on the main stage this morning, that of coalition and your | :49:04. | :49:05. | |
relationship with Labour. Neil McEvoy doesn't want cooperation at | :49:06. | :49:15. | |
the moment or coalition, Llyr Gruffydd, where do you stand? At the | :49:16. | :49:19. | |
moment I am happy with the arrangement we have. We need an open | :49:20. | :49:22. | |
mind because a lot is changing very quickly politically in this country | :49:23. | :49:25. | |
at the moment so we mustn't rule it out, but if you look at what we | :49:26. | :49:29. | |
managed to deliver at the moment, more than any opposition since | :49:30. | :49:33. | |
devolution, we will do all rights. Jill Evans, would you be happy to | :49:34. | :49:37. | |
see coalition if that's what circumstances demanded? Our main | :49:38. | :49:42. | |
duty as The Party of Wales is to assure that in these really | :49:43. | :49:45. | |
uncertain times we get the best possible deal for Wales, the people, | :49:46. | :49:50. | |
the communities of Wales and the future, and so we always have to | :49:51. | :49:54. | |
look at that and how best we deliver that. Jill Evans, Llyr Gruffydd, | :49:55. | :49:59. | |
thank you very much. Back to you. Thank you, Bethan. Plenty more in | :50:00. | :50:05. | |
our programme this afternoon. Brexit and speculation over a snapped UK | :50:06. | :50:12. | |
general election were themes for the Arfon MP Hywel Williams who spoke | :50:13. | :50:19. | |
yesterday. The Tories are always talking about patriotism and the | :50:20. | :50:23. | |
values that are above all that, but there is nothing patriotic or | :50:24. | :50:27. | |
virtuous about the way they behave. And I will say this in a language | :50:28. | :50:33. | |
they will understand. Despite all their fine words, it is unpatriotic | :50:34. | :50:38. | |
for the Tories to undermine jobs, economic growth, equality and fair | :50:39. | :50:41. | |
treatment, and the future life chances of the people of these | :50:42. | :50:46. | |
islands, through their xenophobic rhetoric and there are professional | :50:47. | :50:51. | |
pursuits of a hard Brexit. Then they divisive nationalists. Brexit means | :50:52. | :50:58. | |
Brexit, says the Prime Minister. We will secure the best deal possible. | :50:59. | :51:04. | |
One slogan as meaningless as next. Last night, she said that until we | :51:05. | :51:09. | |
leave, Britain will remain at the heart of the EU. All the more | :51:10. | :51:14. | |
effectively to tear it out, I suppose. In fact, with Scotland, | :51:15. | :51:19. | |
unsurprisingly, heading for a UK exit anyway, the Tory position now | :51:20. | :51:24. | |
seems to be for dumping the single market, and making our own trade | :51:25. | :51:30. | |
deals. Well, what about Wales and our ?5 billion trade surplus? How | :51:31. | :51:33. | |
many hundreds of deals, and with whom first? With Wales's | :51:34. | :51:40. | |
international markets or a cosy setup for the City of London? How | :51:41. | :51:47. | |
long will this take? The thing-mac- Canada trade deal negotiation went | :51:48. | :51:51. | |
on for seven years, now scuppered by the Belgian region of one linear -- | :51:52. | :51:57. | |
be you- Canada trade deal. But the Tories reckon they can secure a new | :51:58. | :52:05. | |
deal in just two years. Conference, this is a regime of crisis. The | :52:06. | :52:11. | |
pound plummeting, inflation looming, income static, employment uncertain, | :52:12. | :52:17. | |
productivity low, investment withheld, and the very integrity of | :52:18. | :52:21. | |
the United Kingdom in peril, and in all of this, the Tories are | :52:22. | :52:24. | |
untroubled by their friends in the elite media. At the other end of the | :52:25. | :52:31. | |
scale, let's just look at the simple, possibly real, example. Say | :52:32. | :52:37. | |
you are a farmer and you want to buy a new tractor. Farm payments will | :52:38. | :52:41. | |
cover you until 2020, but you reasonably need to look ahead beyond | :52:42. | :52:47. | |
2020. Will there be money after 2020? Will it be paid per hectare or | :52:48. | :52:52. | |
per animal? Will Wales get a share based on the start of the work -- | :52:53. | :52:55. | |
size of the Welsh farming economy, that is the need for Miller, or on | :52:56. | :53:02. | |
the Barnett formula, around 5% based on population? Who will decide, | :53:03. | :53:12. | |
London or Cardiff? Will the Welsh family farm be treated on the same | :53:13. | :53:15. | |
basis as the vast agribusinesses of East Anglia? Now, Dubai that | :53:16. | :53:17. | |
tractor? And if you don't, what does that mean for the tractor seller and | :53:18. | :53:22. | |
the tractor maker, and the steelmakers from Port Talbot we | :53:23. | :53:25. | |
heard from this morning, and the engine plant and everybody else? Not | :53:26. | :53:30. | |
so simple example after all, but there are no answers. Mrs may has | :53:31. | :53:35. | |
said she doesn't intend to give us a running commentary. Is that because | :53:36. | :53:40. | |
she has a cunning plan but isn't telling, or is it because they are | :53:41. | :53:46. | |
completely clueless? I'll let you answer. Now, last year, -- lustre, I | :53:47. | :53:52. | |
want to talk about activism and a possible snap election next year. | :53:53. | :53:56. | |
Mrs me has said there won't be won. We take our word. We have to plan, I | :53:57. | :54:05. | |
think. Can I tell you I have great affection for Llangollen and the | :54:06. | :54:09. | |
Clwyd South can sit constituency. I first stood here in 1999. In the | :54:10. | :54:15. | |
last century! Persuaded to put my name forward by an old friend. He | :54:16. | :54:21. | |
was very canny to phone me up and say, we came fourth last time, you | :54:22. | :54:27. | |
won't have to do anything. I was selected. After driving through the | :54:28. | :54:31. | |
rain from Kana from and spectacularly hitting a wall just up | :54:32. | :54:38. | |
the road from here on returning, the very next Saturday, nine months | :54:39. | :54:41. | |
before the election I was here again, that this time, hitting the | :54:42. | :54:47. | |
doors. In the car park of the Wild Pheasant I met my new agent, the | :54:48. | :54:52. | |
late and much missed councillor Barrie Price. Barry, I asked, where | :54:53. | :54:59. | |
is everyone else? Well, he said, only the two of us. There are more, | :55:00. | :55:04. | |
only it's just, well... We didn't expect you to start quite so soon. | :55:05. | :55:10. | |
They did come out every following Saturday, and on weekdays as well, | :55:11. | :55:15. | |
determined to make this our first general election, something special | :55:16. | :55:21. | |
include South, and they succeeded. Thanks to them. OK, we did come | :55:22. | :55:28. | |
second, but with a swing of 18.9% to Plaid, and we gave Labour the fright | :55:29. | :55:34. | |
of its life. Barry always reckoned that with another couple of weeks we | :55:35. | :55:40. | |
would have won it. And at the count, with Labour seats falling into our | :55:41. | :55:44. | |
hands across our country, I had the exhilarating pleasure of saying, the | :55:45. | :55:52. | |
fair wind of the West is blowing through Wales Today, to the delight | :55:53. | :55:56. | |
of our people and a good few of the counting staff, and to the dismay of | :55:57. | :56:03. | |
Labour. So, what's the point of this little story? Well, it is in the | :56:04. | :56:09. | |
spirit and in the optimism of 1999, and even better, that we must now | :56:10. | :56:18. | |
adopt a plan, must adopt our work and make all that planning and work | :56:19. | :56:22. | |
our own. But we have to get on with it. Now, if we had to win. And when | :56:23. | :56:30. | |
we must for Wales. We will win throughout Wales if we turn two | :56:31. | :56:34. | |
activists here, four activists there, and four into eight and 18 to | :56:35. | :56:41. | |
16, and do it now, getting onto it, working Street by street. Theresa | :56:42. | :56:45. | |
May will perhaps call a snap election next spring. With a | :56:46. | :56:50. | |
sweeping majority in England, and damaging hard Brexit. She will | :56:51. | :56:54. | |
certainly find Labour still at each other's throats. There is no going | :56:55. | :57:01. | |
back for them. But we will be ready. Ready to fight for Wales, ready to | :57:02. | :57:06. | |
win for Wales. Friends, there is a huge challenge ahead of us, but | :57:07. | :57:17. | |
here, in the territory of, we will meet the challenge and together we | :57:18. | :57:19. | |
will go forward stronger. APPLAUSE The MP Hywel on the | :57:20. | :57:28. | |
prospect of an early general election. | :57:29. | :57:33. | |
Final word on our programme of the day, there has been quite a fight | :57:34. | :57:37. | |
for Leanne Wood for one reason or another this week. How important is | :57:38. | :57:41. | |
it an afternoon for her speaking live to conference delegates this | :57:42. | :57:45. | |
afternoon? I think it is a big challenge for her. As we said at the | :57:46. | :57:48. | |
beginning of the programme, reflected throughout the programme, | :57:49. | :57:53. | |
there are two big issues, the Brexit issue, on which it is clear the | :57:54. | :57:59. | |
party is united in a maximum Remain position if I can put it that way. | :58:00. | :58:04. | |
So she will have to explain that to people watching at home, people who | :58:05. | :58:13. | |
will be saying, hang on, Wales voted to leave. Then she has that thorny | :58:14. | :58:16. | |
issue of coalition. We just heard is Dyfed Edwards talking about the | :58:17. | :58:20. | |
importance of Government, local Government, saying you can be | :58:21. | :58:24. | |
comfortable in opposition but you cannot do anything in opposition. I | :58:25. | :58:29. | |
think it was a clear response to what Neil McEvoy said just now. So | :58:30. | :58:36. | |
it is alive argument. Vaughan thank you very much. Vaughan will be back | :58:37. | :58:39. | |
this afternoon. We will be back at 2pm this afternoon when we will hear | :58:40. | :58:43. | |
live from the Plaid Cymru leader Leanne Wood. I hope you can join us | :58:44. | :58:47. | |
then. Thanks for your company for the past couple of hours. Until this | :58:48. | :58:51. | |
afternoon, goodbye from us all. | :58:52. | :58:56. |