02/03/2013 Plaid Cymru Conference

$:/STARTFEED. We will soon be coming to the end of the Sixsmith

rugby but in the end of six weeks we bring the four Welsh political

spring conferences. It is Plaid Cymru today, we have two hours of

the Conference for you between now and 4.00pm.

Now who, better to assist me this afternoon than the Welsh Affairs

Editor, who has had more conferences than I have had hot

dinners, Vaughan. We have four conferences coming up in the next

eight weeks but no election until 2015 and 2016. What on earth are

the politicians to be concentrating on? Well, no elections other than

Anglesey. Where there are local elections. That explains the

Conference in Beaumaris. It is going to be about mood music rather

than politics. We are a long way from the election, parties don't

want to turn themselves down, especially with the economy in an

uncertain state. So I think we can expect to see a lot of attacks from

the parties, and when we get to Labour, a lot of attacks on the

Westminster Government. That is where we are at. I think it is

about the mood musics, it is about positioning.

This Plaid Cymru Conference began yesterday, a speech from the leader,

Leanne Wood, we will be seeing that later on. Is it difficult for a

leader, do you think, when we have this vacuum if you like, what do

you put in the speech? Do you take the decisions as did the

Conservatives to last week to put the cards on the tables with

regards to powers on tax? Leanne Wood did not do that. We are not

expecting anything concrete from her? No. It is definitely about

underlining the changes she wants to introduce to the party. That she

has done. What you can expect is emphasis on the poverty. Plaid

Cymru think in the past they have been seen as a party with a bag of

chips on their shoulder. They don't want that anymore. Plus the focus

on the economy. Trying to get away from the image that visits in many

people's minds with the party that is obsessed with the constitution,

obsessed with the Welsh language and the Welsh culture. So, she will

be concentrating on bread and butter issues, the economy and

education. Yesterday, the main news beyond the

Plaid Cymru Conference, was a call from the Assembly presiding officer

to increase the numbers of assembly members, a constitutional matter,

if you will. There was not much talk of that at the Plaid Cymru

Conference? That is rare, they would normally trument that sort of

thing? That is delightful for them that is the contrast that they

wanted to draw. That they were talking about the economy while

someone else was trauking about the constitution of Wales. So they

don't want to come across as a single issue party or a pressure

group. We are back with you during the

afternoon, Vaughan. Now, the Conference as we said it began

yesterday. That is where we begin it makes sense, here is the speech

of the party leader, Leanne Wood. APPLAUSE

Conference, it was a pleasure to travel through Wales yesterday to

reach Ynys Mon, to cross the bridge, to reach the apex of our country

ready for this most auspicious day, stpfplt St David's Day, March the

1st. -- St And it is the area, Ynys Mon,

that is special to Wales. This is the country with the first

comprehensive school, where it was set up. A great symbol of the best

in our creative tradition. The first woman MP was Megan Lloyd-

George. The first branch of the Women's Institute. It is a fitting

place for the first woman leader of Plaid Cymru to pay a tribute to the

First Minister in the history of I want to say thank you to you, for

your tremendous service to Ynys Mon and to Wales for more than a

quarter of a century. In 1987 your victory as an MP will

be remembered as a ray of light in a dismal decade for Plaid Cymru. A

borough that gave the party heart and confidence for the years ahead

-- break through. In 1997 it was the telecanvasses

that eped us win the greatest prize for this nation. By winning the

referendum we gave birth to our democracy. It was in 1997 that we

won our dignity! The icing on the cake came in 2011 when Welsh public

opinion crystallised in favour of Wales.

Those referendum results here, will be your most precious legacy. In

2007 you took us into government. Let us be clear, that is the

ultimate goal of a political party like ours.

Your shining example in that government will continue to provide

us with the inspiration for the years ahead. So it is fitting that

here on your territory, I say, thank you, from me personally, and

on behalf of this party. (SPEAKS IN WELSH).

APPLAUSE Ynys Mon, it represents the

nation's northern most point. It is a perfect place to get a

perspective on where Wales has been and where we are heading.

Since the financial crash of 2007, a lot has changed. Yet we have a

Government in London ploughing ahead with its failed incompetent

policies of austerity. At the same time, we have a Welsh

Government in Cardiff, happy to carry on with a mentallity of

nothing to do with us, gov. Thinking of where we are, and where

we are going does not mean looking back and dwelling on the past,

although, of course it is vital to have an understanding of our

history. It is more important to look forward.

I'm lying, as we say! -- (SPEAKS IN WELSH). I say it is time for us to

chart our own course. We are Wales' only national party. Why? For one

simple reason: We want to build this country. We want to unlock our

people's potential. We want to build a path of human progress, not

in the abstract, not in the comfortable and the complacent

corridors of power but in the streets of every community, in the

villages and in the valleys where we live.

APPLAUSE Our communities are important to

Plaid Cymru. TRANSLATION: The campaign for 2016

starts now. Here, now, with us, with you.

Why do we want to win in 2016? Because a better Wales cannot wait

any longer. The problem in our communities in

Wales are deep-rooted, serious and ingrained.

We need to give our economy a boost and to create communities that are

fit to face current and future challenges.

We need to put all of our effort into job creation. With jobs comes

confidence. With confidence everything is possible.

As someone who was trying to learn Welsh, I understand how important

confidence is. The language is very important to me. I want to see a

Wales in the future become a nation. Where the Welsh language is one of

the languages spoken in the streets in all parts of Wales.

The Census brought us bad news. The figures show that the number of

Welsh speakers is in decline. We are losing some 2,000 Welsh

speakers every year. What is the Welsh Government doing about this?

Nothing. Just delaying.

It is only this week that Labour prevented the introduction of the

Welsh Language Standards. The language and the economy is

essential in all areas, such Assange ang.

-- Anglesey. Throughout the country, we must

provide opportunities for people to remain, stay, live and work in

their communities. We need to create a future for our

young people. They are the hope for our next generation.

And that is why I have insisted on the economy and job creation being

our number one priority since my election as Plaid Cymru leader a

year ago. For 30 years Wales has had a poor

deal from a succession of UK governments.

We have seen factories come and go, inward investment, peaks and

troughs and the gap between the rich and the poor has grown.

Broken dreams. Broken lives. Broken families.

It is time this finally stopped. It is time to put government back on

the side of the people. To have a government working to make sure

that the people have the basics, a decent home, with decent healthcare

within a reasonable travel distance. A job with decent pay. So that the

bills are affordable. It is not difficult. With people in work on

decent wages, they pay in to the tax pot. The more that goes into

that tax pot, the more and better quality and Social Services and

social protection we can afford. The austerity drive has failed.

Project ex-s for economic growth have failed. The efforts to

maintain the UK's triple-A credit status has failed. Attempts to cut

unemployment in Wales have failed. Failure has been the hallmark of

this discredited UK Government. And where is the opposition? It was

up to Plaid Cymru MPs to lead the charge on the bedroom tax this week

on the floor of the House of Commons. And it is a good job the

Tories in the Assembly have got their fingers on the pulse. Just

this week they popped up to promise tax cuts for the better off. Plaid

Cymru wants to see policies which help more businesses start up. How

will cutting taxes for those on the 40% tax rate help that? Tackling

business rates, better public procurement, these are the things

that would make a difference. Measures that would allow our

wealth creators to flourish. Measures that could be taken now,

if the Tories were really interested in helping business.

These are the priorities of Plaid Cymru and we will earn the right to

govern our country by presenting a responsible, competent and

business-friendly plan to boost the Welsh economy. We must make the

most of the resources that we have. And our most precious resource are

our people. The road to our future will be built by the people here.

If we as Welsh people don't build it, it won't be built. We know we

need better infrastructure, better communication links throughout our

country, take a look at rail. Why has it taken so throng electrify a

single mile of our -- so long to electrify a single mile of our rail

ways. Because the switch that needed to be flicked lay Ide until

London. We know we can't look to London for the answers. That has

been tried and it has failed. Friends, we have spent too long

waiting. That switch, or the spark to power up our nation, has to be

in our hands. We can achieve anything if we have the

determination to shape and craft for ourselves a future that is

better than the past. And we can. We must. We will create a future

We must. We will create a future that is better than the past.

APPLAUSE After all, what is this Welsh democracy for? If not the

possibility of doing things differently. We have worked hard

for our democracy. Let's use it. It is a capacity that the Wales of our

forefathers did not have. We have the chance to make the most of our

lives, to do the best we can do to be the best we can be. That was the

spirit that inspired the miners and quarry workers to build libraries

and universitys the length and breadth of Wales and inspired them

to provide scholarships four thousands, so those otherwise could

not, should have a better future. Our history will be what we make it.

And we can start today by imagining and believing in a different future.

I have led this party for almost a year. It's ban proud and

exhilarating experience and I am privileged to lead the only party

which puts Wales first each and What have I learned over this past

year? I have learned that the people the length and breadth of

Wales have an unquenchable hope a huge appetite for a different

course. And an acceptance that we cannot continue as we are. Our

country contains an enormous well spring of positive creative, almost

limitless social energy and I have been inspired by the people I have

met who want to make a difference for their world and for Wales. We

only need to look at our country's success in sport. We are punching

well above our weight on a world scale in a variety of sports from

cycling to rugby, football to taekwondo. I pay tribute to all of

those who made last weekend such a fantastic weekend of Welsh sport.

Well done to all of you for doing your nation proud. APPLAUSE. Welsh

sports women and men give us a lot to be proud of. But also a to

aspire to. They have shown us what can be achieved with confidence,

self-belief and the right opportunities. Tran late that for

our nation, for our economy w that right combination, there is no

reason why Wales can't be as or more successful than the score of

nations of roughly a similar size. As in team sports, if we all pull

together as a team, this nation can and will do great things. People

are calling out for a vision. Yes, there's scepticism, this a hardly

surprising, the old models of our economy, our politics, our

environment, are broken. People are looking for a new different. --

direction a new start, new leadership. I am determined that

they will find it here in the only party that this country of ours

rightly call its own, the party of For a vision to work, it must be

credible. It must set out where we want to go and set out the first

steps on the journey. Our vision is of an independent Wales.

Independent in spirit and in reality. Not dependent on handouts

from Brussels or London. A country fuelled not by charity, but by our

own success. The question is how do we get there from here? We live in

the present and it is in the present tense that we make

ourselves relevant to people's daily lives. Our first steps will

be outlined in our programme. And it is with the relevant programme

combined with the determination to fight for our communities that we

will make Anglesey proud again, when we win here in May. The work

of building the new Wales starts here and it starts now and there is

a lot of work to be done. This party has a raft of good policies

which are right for the time we are in. So right in fact that the Welsh

Government has had to adopt our ideas in the absence of their own.

Our plan to tackle the Council Tax benefit gap, our plan for a public

investment vehicle that we can build for Wales. Our plan to turn

around our national airport and for a conversation on the Webb language,

our plan for a science park here, these are all policies pushed by

the party of Wales, then adopted by the Welsh Government. We are

working hard, coming up with solutions that can be put in place

now to the problems that people face in their lives. And I'm

talking about these policies and discussing them in public meetings

that I'm holding with people up and down the land. Plaid Cymru intends

to talk to people in every single nook, Kuranyi and corner of Wales.

And the more we talk with people in our community and listen, the more

we get our policy and our programme right. I have set this party a big

challenge. Between now and 2016, I want us to have a million

conversations with the people of Wales. That is a two-way

conversation, where we listen and take note of what people say. And

during those conversations we will be positive, we will promote

optimism and we will promote hope. Our campaign for the 2016 Assembly

election has already begun. Our campaign will have the energy, the

excitement and the integrity to offer a real alternative. It will

be rooted in the participation of people in every city, in every town,

in every village and in every county. A campaign that will

restore people's faith in politics. Plaid Cymru, the party of Wales,

must win that election. We must win that election for the children of

Wales. One quarter of the children in this country are growing up poor.

When they grow up, one quarter of them will be unemployed. 40% of

them will leave primary school not able to read or write to the

standard expected for their age. Thousands will be in schools in the

quarter of all local education authorities that are currently in

special measures. We can do so much better than this, where is the

sense of urgency that we need in Welsh politics now? We can't afford

to wait any longer before we see improvements in standards in our

education system. There will be teenagers sitting their GCSEs this

summer who have sent the whole of their education under devolution.

There can be no excuses. Education is devolved in full. These young

people have watched as Wales in the past a watch word for educational

excellence, has slipped further and further behind, not just England,

but behind 36 other countries in reading, and 38 in maths. It is our

boys who are falling behind the furtherest. We must teach our boys

the basics, because unless we get the basics right, we won't get the

rest right. Plaid Cymru will implement a comprehensive literacy

and numeracy programme with early intervention to specifically target

boys, but aiming to make sure all children are performing to the best

standard for them by the age of 11. We want to see if we can utilise

willing volunteers, like retired teachers, and other professionals

in this work. We want to extend the principles of foundation phase to

offer a wider range of out of school and weekend activities,

which promote and support classroom-braced learning. And we

want to offer more vocational opportunities to young people. To

try a range of trades, before committing to an apprenticeship or

a college course. Making sure trades are taught alongside

business skills and or co-operative skills will help to train the next

generation to do the jobs that need doing. The Government's approach to

education has shown nothing less than a shocking dereliction of duty

and an absolute travesty. For Wales, a country where in the past great

store was placed on the value of education, it is extraordinary that

it has now become one of our greatest failures. The Welsh

education system has become the graveyard of ambition. When a child

fails their education, the consequences stay with them for

life. Ask anyone who didn't sit or didn't pass their 11-plus. But when

the education system fails our children, who takes responsibility?

To date, no one. Not one education minister has ever been sacked for

poor results. All too often failure is rewarded with promotion. My view

is that the time has passed where we in Wales can blame all and

sundry for our problems. Regardless of our history, we are where we are.

Let's make the most with what we have got. No more blaming others,

let's take the responsibility for Wales needs leadership. Wales needs

a leader with the energy as well as maintaining the energy that is

needed in fulfilling a country like ours. Our country needs to be doing

so much better. We need someone who will work every hour and leave no

stone unturned to make Wales a better place.

Someone who can see the future and is prepared to champion Wales at

every opportunity. Selling our strengths, not bemoong our

weaknesses. Wales needs real leadership. I pledge to you that

when I'm returned as First Minister in 2016, I will make sure that

standards in education are raised. APPLAUSE

A Plaid Cymru Government will work to provide opportunities for all to

reach their best potential. We will make sure that the brightest

children are able to excell. So far in the fourth assembly there have

been 59 task and set up groups set up by the Government. That is

almost as many reviews in the two years as in the whole of the

homeowner of devolution. Why so many reviews? When the few targets

that have been set have been so badly missed. 90% of UK GVA by 2010,

missed badly. 25% of people speaking Welsh by 2011, missed,

badly. Welsh ambulances arriving within

eight minutes of an incident in 65% of cases, missed, month after month

after month. Our Assembly is meant to fill the accountability gap. We

should not be caught in a one-party state of denial, immune to

criticism. Refusing to take responsibility. 59 task and finish

groups since May 2011 can only mean one thing, a Government devoid of

ideas. APPLAUSE

Well, I know the source of the problem and I have a simple

solution. It is time this Government was tasked and finished

off! APPLAUSE Plaid Cymru wants a Wales that

takes control of its own decisions. A Wales that has control over its

own affairs so that we can implement our comprehensive,

economic plan. As we stated in our evidence to the Silk Commission

this week, the Criminal Justice System, the police, broadcasting,

energy and one of our most precious resources, water should all be in

Welsh hands. (SPEAKS IN WELSH). APPLAUSE

Transfer these responsibilities now. No hesitation. No excuses. No

exception. No delay. Wales should not be prepared to trust the UK

Government with any powers. It is time now to do things differently,

for ourselves. It is time for Wales to have the tools to do the job of

turning around our economy. To anybody better shape for business,

the party of Wales wants a connected country. An improved trth

and IT network. We want to make yues of rail electrification. To

reduce rail travel times between bang -- Bangor and Cardiff. We need

better investment, to connect Wales to the world with our ports and

airports. High-speed broadband for all, not just the lucky few. I want

a country where people have opportunities to do well. Plaid

Cymru wants to see improvements in the skills of our people to build a

new, suss takenable manufacturing economy. To push green engineering

skills. That is why we have focused on apprenticeships in our budget

negotiations and why we proposed a Green Skills construction college.

We want to train people in Wales and innocent vise them to stay. I

want to see more of the Welsh pound invested in Welsh companies and

better local procurement to lock that money into the local

communities. To help create more opportunities for people to do well.

This is just a flavour of the policies Wales needs to succeed and

to flourish. We are an ancient country, with a

young democracy. Proud of its past, and deeply

frustrated by its. -- present. Fortunately, the old country has a

young party, whose members are brimming with ideas, with

enthusiasm, with hope and confidence for a future that is

better than the past. It is a future we have yet to shape.

The shape is up to us. Political parties are sometimes

blunt instruments. Far from perfect, but in a democracy political

parties are the only way we have so far invented to create policies to

improve our lives and the lives of our communities. We ask the people

of Wales not just to put their faith in us but to invest their

faith collecttively, together with our own. To become the co-creators,

co-protectors, co-builders of our country. I ask you to imagine, just

for a moment, suspend reality, picture in your mind a different

future. Can you visualise a successful Wales? A strong economy?

A public service infrastructure that people are not dependant upon

but one which enables them instead, to flourish? Can you imagine with

us a different future? Can you believe that achieving that

different, successful future is possible? Can you see it in your

own mind? Can you imagine what success might feel like? I know

it's possible. It is why I do what I do.

But we need more people in Wales to see this vision.

Come with us, the party of Wales. The only party that puts this

country first without fail. Join with Plaid Cymru on this

journey. Help us build our country up. If together enough of us want

that vision, we can make that future our own.

APPLAUSE Well, the standing ovation for the

party leader, that was Leanne Wood speaking. Vaughan, I think that the

last time Leanne Wood gave a speech in September it was very much to

people beyond the Conference Hall. That felt like she was talking to

people in the hall. Talking about what Plaid Cymru could do. How they

could get involved? You are right. Partly as she is geeing up people

for the elections when they take place. A lot of the members there,

are from Anglesey, she wants those people out pounding the streets

over the next couple of months, but interesting things there. By and

large if you listen to Leanne Wood in the Assembly Chamber, she tends

not to launch vitriolic attacks on the Government's record, but she

was vitriolic there. It is interesting there, while Plaid

Cymru is free to attack the Welsh situation on education and health,

they have to tread carefully, because there are other portfolios

which were held by Plaid Cymru ministers a few years ago. So they

are not able to have a go on transport, agriculture, language

and culture, that they would perhaps like to do. So they are

hamstringed still by the fact that they were in government with Labour

until recently. She referred to a one-party state in denial, but as

you alluded to it has not been a one-party state as played Plaid

were in there for the four years. I think that the time has past now.

They have made the break from Government. They see themselves as

the opposition, taking on the Government. She said that the 2016

election campaign started now. That is not great news for political

journalists but there was no detail as to what it may mean for Plaid

Cymru? But what is interesting is she started the koundown to 2016,

not to 2015. A straightforward amission that Plaid's attention

will be on the Westminster elections. One of the lessons that

they learned from the SNP is that they almost discount how they do in

Westminster elections, other than how it helps them in the next

Scottish elections how to raise a candidate, so on. It is obvious

that Plaid have adopted that strategy. Westminster is a

distraction, and the next general election is really the starter for

the battle that they consider really important, which is the 2016

Assembly elections. That is different from the other three

parties. Leanne Wood has laid her cards on

the table with that election. She is saying she will stand in a

constituency seat. Saying when she is returned as the First Minister.

It is all or nothing for her, this election? It is difficult for a

party leader if you don't have ambition people will say, well, you

know, why should we take you seriously? But if you raise

expectations or paint pictures that people think are unreasonable, you

can get laughed at. Remember Kirsty William' Project 30. The aim for

the Lib Dems to win 30 seats in the National Assembly. For Leanne Wood

there is good news. I understand from talking to someone, that the

Westminster Government, in charge of the Assembly voting system is to

announce shortly that they are getting rid of the rule that says

you cannot stand in the constituency and the regional lists

system. A rule that Labour brought in 2006. That is almost certainly

go to go. That means she can keep her word, stand in her constituency

and have her insurance policy of the list. So she may have sensed

that was on the way and that gave her comfort in making her original

announcement, who knows? But it looks as though she is off the hook

in terms of possibly losing a seat in the Assembly.

We will put that to her later. See if she is thinking of standing, I'm

sure he is will not tell us. I can hazard a guess. In terms of

the main focus of the speech. I was looking at the online pages it went

heavily on the education attack that she made on the waech

Government. That is a diversion -- on the waech Government that is a

diversion on the path which has very much been, let's grow the

economy, since she has taken the job? We are beginning to see the

emergence of a narrative from the opposition parties. Not just Plaid

but from the Liberal Democrats, and from the Conservatives. Of painting

Carwyn Jones' Government government as a do nothing government. That is

doing nothing to transform public services or the economy in Wales

that is a narrative that the opposition parties, they are not in

cahoots on it, I think that they reached the same conclusion,

individually, that this is where the Government could be vulnerable.

If they paint it as a Government that is content to sit back, that

is a bit lazy, that is a bit idle, that is where the Government could

be vulnerable. There is three years for them to

develop that narrative. Now, we have heard some of yesterday's

business. Today's business began with a speech from the party chair,

Helen Mary Jones. She said that Wales needed Leanne Wood as First

Minister. So it is our job as the party

members Conference to deliver that government and that leader for

Wales. Well, what must we do? For a start let's accept we can all do

something. Big or small it all makes a difference. St David

reminded us, after all, and I can think of no better place to have

spent St David's Day, he reminded us to remember the small things.

For our economy and for the communities there are things to do

now. We can use the local shops. It can take longer bus does not always

cost more. We can ask in the cafes and the restaurants where the food

comes from. To ask to volunteer in the community groups, in the

nurseries, in the sports club. In doing so, that people know when we

do that, when we make that contribution it is a reflection of

values at Welsh citizens and Plaid members. These are things to do to

help. Practical and small in the here and the now. Things that we

all do. But there is one thing that we must

do, that is to do whatever we can to win for Wales that Plaid Cymru

Government. We will all contribute in different ways. Lindsey Whittle,

it is nice to see her this morning, reminded us we cannot fight a bat

well an empty war chest. Can which give a little more? Can we raise a

little bit more cash? And some of us will stand for office. Think

about it. Could you be a councillor? An Assembly member? A

member of Parliament? A member of the European Parliament? We have a

wealth of talent in this party that I believe is sometimes underused.

We need a strong team of candidates of all levels. A team that reflects

the rich divert of all of the communities in Wales.

I would like you to think about it. Could you be a part of that team.

There is help and support if you want to give it a go.

And there is one thing, one thing that all of us must commit to do,

every single member of this party, we must play our part in making

sure that as a party we have those million conversations with our

fellow Welsh citizens. We must meet We need to listen, to challenge to

support. We need to build our confidence as a nation, to speak to

our fellow Welsh women's and men's imaginations, to allow them to

grasp our vision of that fair, prosperous nation that we all

deserve to be. Face to face, heart- to-heart, let's share our fears and

face them down. And let's share our hopes and make them real. It is

time for Wales. To have a government that is truly of the

people, by the people and for the people. And that can only be a

Plaid Cymru, the party of Wales, Government, led by Leanne Wood. Are

we ready to do all that we have to do, every single one of us to make

that happen? I believe we are. live to the conference for first

time. Our reporter James Williams is there. Afternoon. Good afternoon.

How are you? Very well. You have been a busy boy. I have seen you

all over the television. What have you been up to this weekend? Well,

of course things kicked off yesterday, we had the leader's

speech, Leanne Wood. She focused on the economy and the need for jobs,

but also a stinging attack on the Welsh Government's record on

education. A bit of positive and a bit of negative. Today, as you have

heard the chair of Plaid Cymru, Helen Mary Jones, kicking off the

day and calling for people to pull together and for people to get

things done. And a question and answer session with the new

leadership team that has been in place for a fortnight after a

special conference, Plaid Cymru, which formalised a new team at the

top. They were asked questions about the skesh referendum and the

Silk Commission and give them a chance for members to get their

teeth into the issues. -- Scottish referendum. I am joined by two of

the party's party members. What did you make of the speech by Leanne

Wood yesterday? Well, you know making a leader's speech is not the

easiest thing in the world. The expectation, as I know from many

years experience, is high. I think she delivered it well. She had the

right balance in that speech between saying what a Plaid Cymru

government would do and adrawing attention to the problems the

current government has over the economy and education. Well

balanced, but a very well delivered speech. Were you surprised by the

tone of the speech? Before we saw her extend an olive branch to the

Labour Party when she started, but a sing -- stinging attack on them

yesterday. Do you want to see more? No, the balance is between saying

what you would do if you were government, but drawing attention

to the problems with the economy and education. Right to draw

attention to that. When you say there was an attack. There was also

a real offer to have a new direction and saying when she

becomes First Minister, education will be a priority. That is right.

When she becomes First Minister. That is what she said. Very

ambitious? Yes, but you have got to be ambitious. You have to be

ambitious. That is why wept into government in youpbtd 7, because we

were ambitious and wanted to do things. You can do things in

coalition, but you do more if you have a Plaid Cymru First Minister.

If she fails to become First Minister, is that a slur on her

record? Not really. It depend -- depends, the circumstances change.

She is well established. It takes time to establish yourself as a

leader. I think that she's done well in a very short space of time.

You mentioned the need to focus on education and that is something

that will become a running theme, there wasn't much else in policy

detail. She told us that before that we weren't going to expect it.

But as we get closer to thaection l -- election you need some meat on

the bones. Yes, you're not going to do that so far from the election.

She has set up commissions to look at policy options. Remember, this a

important. One thing this current Government is short of is really

distinctive policy options. If you look at their programme for

Government, it is managerial in tone, where does the ambition. What

Leanne is saying is Plaid Cymru has to drive up the ambition for Wales.

Now turn Alun Ffred Jones. The party is using this conference as a

way of starting that campaign towards 2016 and we have had the

special conference. It is about gearing up for the election?

the word ambition for Wales is the key word. You have to be ambitious,

because we face a number of we call them challenges these days in

politics, in the field of education, in the health word and of course

with the economy in terms of getting jobs for young people and

also the variety of jobs the length and breadth of Wales. Some parts

are doing reasonably well. But we have to get the economy in such a

state that it offers proper work with well renumerated work for

young people in Wales. No party's likely to disadegree with the --

disagree with the need to improve the economy. What does Plaid Cymru

offer this a unique? This will come to the forewhen these commissions

report and they will put meat on the bones, because as we get closer

to the election, people will ask what are you going to do. But first

you have to be ambitious and there is a managerial tone about the

Labour Party, always has been in a sense. Rhodri Morgan used to admit

that policy was not their strength. That has come, chickens are coming

home to roost. 12 years after the first Assembly was set up and some

of these issues in education have to be laid at the feet of Labour

Party ministers and the Labour Government. We share some of that

responsibility in those areas, specially we had control over, but

the Labour Party have to answer how come they have ended up here after

what is in fact of course Labour Party governance since 1997 in

Wales and yet still we see these quite sizeable pockets where there

is huge underachievement. Plaid Cymru suffered a bad result in the

last elections, and Leanne Wood said she wants to be a First

Minister, that is a massive hurdle, how will the party go from that

result to a success in 2016? Because politics is volatile these

days. We have seen that all over the UK. Many of the old traditional

support is not there for any party. I know we all have our heartlands,

but in fact the position is volatile and if we, and it is a

huge challenge, I'm not playing it down, I don't think people will

will just switch to Plaid Cymru, because we say the right things. We

have to prove that we can lead and that we want to lead and that we

are ambitious for Wales and if you don't have that ambition and proper

policy, people won't vote fours. It is a huge challenge, but what else

are we there for? Plaid Cymru was set up to put Wales first and make

the best of our own position, our own values in Wales, to make it a

successful country, a confident country. Who wouldn't want that?

One final question, there is no coincidence that we are in Anglesey,

there are local elections in May. The party's made its pitch, making

Anglesey proud again. How will it do and before the last elections we

with told it was too early to use it as a record of Leanne's tenure,

is it fair to judge her now? this is a unique election, it is

like no other election since 1884. You have had a failing local

authority and commissioners have been brought in. It is a unique set

of circumstances. What I think people are expecting is for us to

make the council, make them feel proud of the council again. That is

the prime task and to have vision for the future, but to manage this

council well, the services there, the education, Social Services and

so on. I think that Plaid Cymru by standing as we are in all the wards

where we are in a position to do that. Thank you. Plaid Cymru are

the second party on Anglesey council. Those elections in May and

they have a tough job to lead that council after the elections. Thank

you. Eammon Jones described the election like no other election he

has seen. He gave us a brief explanation. Explain why this an

election and there wasn't last year. Anglesey has a particular problem

that goes back Deccan Mujahideen Kades. -- back decades. They have

council who stand as dth and then they get into various groups. The

trouble is there has been vicious personal rivalries between various

factions, this endless changing mix of groups. Commissioners were sent

in to run the council and the Welsh Goth decided we have got to norm

lies Anglesey politics and get the political parties to engage with

Anglesey. There are party representatives on Anglesey council,

but they're small in number. What has happened is they postponed the

elections from last year and reduced the number of councillors

and divided Anglesey, which was a jigsaw of single member wards into

a small number of larger wards. The Government believe it will make it

difficult for the independents to compete with the political party.

Particularly if you have more independents standing in a ward

than there are seats. That is what is happening and all the party are

piling in, the Conservatives, Labour, Plaid Cymru and the Liberal

Democrats, all aiming to field candidates, UKIP as well. Whether

it will work and Anglesey will change, who knows? Independence can

be tough people and won't be got rid of easily. The Welsh Government

decided to take action and they have done here, it seeps to have

paid off, or can we not tell it until the results of election?

sense, the election will be a referendum on whether it's worked.

Although to be fair, if you listen to what the commissioners are

saying, they are saying the atmosphere has improved, they have

been giving more responsibility back to the councillors. So in a

sense, they're saying the intervention has worked in the

short-term. The question is whether the culture has changed

sufficiently for the elections to produce the sort of council the

Welsh Government would like to Psy see. But having said that, there

are rumours that we could be approaching a local government

reorganisation and there could be a reemergence of at least a larger

Gwynedd that Anglesey and Gwynedd could be brought together. I am

sure that will go down well on Anglesey. Now we heard from Plaid

Cymru on the elections in May and we will hear from the other main

parties at their spring conferences. Now here is a flavour of what

they're saying about the Anglesey council election. At the moment, I

think the main priority for the Ide has to be the economy. It suffered

a lot of job losses. I think there is also need that if the renewable

projects that are in the Irish Sea, that the island's industry is able

to take advantage of the opportunities. So certainly there

is a big economic development job Yes, the candidates in Anglesey

will be fighting against a difficult backdrop, but the policy

has always about about the island. There is a strong feeling that they

need to get it right. The local authority has been badly performing

from the democratic point of view for a long period of time. A strong

group of Conservative candidates will have the opportunity to offer

the people of Anglesey different viewpoints on how to move forward.

I am confidence, we come from a very lose base. That has been part

of the problem. I think that the solution is better party politics

and policies. Instead of personalities. We have seen the

council implode through rows because of personalities. I think

that Labour can play a big part in this. For the first time, a

manifesto and a proper programme to include jobs, education and the

issues important to the people of Anglesey.

Let's go back to another of yesterday's speeches. This time

from the North Wales Regional Assembly assembly member, Llyr Huws

Gruffydd. He said that Wales needs to stand up for themselves.

We only have to look to see how they would rather hoist the white

flag than adopt a can-do attitude to deliver the services that we all

deserve. The decision to move the neonatal cots from North Wales a

England is not standing up for Wales, it is giving up on Wales. We

are told that the decision is made on the grounds of safety. How can a

service that means a 140-mile round trip for criticallically ill babies,

when there is a proven link between distance and mortality rates? How

can tb safer when the ten cots we have in North Wales will be reduced

to just six? And how is it safer when the nurses to cots ratio, that

we have of one nurse to every one cot in North Wales, become one

nurse to every two cots at Arrow Park. As for sustainability. We

know it will cost more and also to put a huge additional strain on a

creaking Ambulance Service. Not to mention once you shut down the

service in North Wales, Arrow Park will charge what they like as we

have no other option. Who is to say that in the years to,the NHS will

reconfigure and the services moved further away again? We have had an

unprecedented coming together of the British Medical Association,

the royal candle-lit vigil of midwives and Royal College of

Nursing to oppose the moves, the doctors, the clinicians and of

course the patients, but still they plough on and do so with the

shocking endorsement of the community health board in North

Wales. What they don't tell suss that they

have only tried twice to recruit in the last five years, and with the

threat to the future of those posts hanging over them, well, who in

their right mind would want to apply? We need to be more creative.

To show some of the vision and the ambition that Plaid Cymru

demonstrated in our debate on the very subject in the Assembly last

week. Rather than hoist the white flag. Why not develop a Centre of

Excellence, based on medical research here in North Wales. We

know that the clinicians can choose where to work. Many junior doctors

have ambitions and want a career path that is challenging and

fulfilling. Many want to carry out clinical trials, to be published to

advance their careers. Offering the opportunity to do so to do so here,

will make it more attractive to the area and attract investment from

research councils, industries and the life sciences. We have to do

more to encourage universities to form links with health boards for

conducting research and medical staff to be made aware of the

opportunities to participate in the research. Why not establish a Welsh

Journal of Medicine for the recording and the publication of

trial results? This could help stimulate our economy. Private

companies would view Wales as a location where research happens.

The SNP has made attractive funding and mainstreaming the health

service a key part of its economic strategy. They are seeking out the

experts, asking them to set up research teams in Scotland. One

example is the work of Professor Philip Coin. Working in the UK

higher education sector today. He has been the key ins fluens in

developing the College of Life Sciences in Dundee. From a

converted stable block with 11 scientists to what is today a

complex housing with 800 staff from 53 countries. His work has been the

catalyst for the economic generation of Dundee. He has

developed a strategy for attracting some of the best scientists to

Dundee. More than 1% of the world's most cited scientists in their

field are located there and he has been able to raise more than �35

million to ensure that world - class facilities and scientists are

the norm in Dundee. He has been able to attract Bayeux tech and

pharmaceutical companies to set up headquarters there, resulting in

more than 15% of the local economy derived from live sciences. Many

stream research would help address our staffing shortages. Consultants

build careers through carrying out and publishing research, that

research can mean access to more modern treatments and more modern

technologies. So it would help attract top clinicians, that

helping to attract post graduates, undergraduates, to allow us to

maintain many services, improve efficient outcomes and have a

knock-on effect on employment and the wider economy. About no, Carwyn

Jones, who spends his time telling us how the Westminster coalition is

decimating the NHS in England seems happy enough to have the sickest

and the youngest born in North Wales, sent into that failing

system. I tell you, I'm a member of Plaid Cymru, the party of Wales, I

am not happy for the party to settle for Wales as it is. I want

something essential to the future success of our nation. To build an

approach to economic, social, environmental and regenerative

policies to. Reconsider how to rebuild and strengthen the

communities. To ensure that the natural resources of our nation are

long -- are there with the talents of all of its people.

That was Llyr Huws Gruffydd's speech at the Conference. Vaughan,

let's major on what you were talking about at the start. Health

reorganisation. A big issue in North Wales. He is speaking on the

long-term, giving what one would imagine the Plaid Cymru view, but

there is a suggestion that not all agree with the level of opposition

that he seems to be stating there? There is broad cross-party support,

including Labour AMs for the disagreement for the protests

against some of the plans that have gone to past, but there are others

who are a little more caution, going along with the Carwyn Jones

line to censure that the decisions are taken on medical grounds, not

political. Plaid Cymru wants these decisions to be called in, to make

them a political decision. There are people within the party who

disagree but not many, one has to say.

And almost to take the decision out of the hands of the Community

Health Council. Carwyn Jones said to the BBC it was unreasonable for

people to expect that all health services are within Wales.

It seems that there is argument against that, in terms of the

decision to move from Arrow Park on the Wirral Wirral? Well, he did

seem to admit that Plaid had a point. The reconfiguration of

health services in England. He think it is is going to fail. Do

you want to put Welsh patients into the services? Of course lots of

Welsh patients use the English health service facilities.

Especially in areas like Powys, where many go over the bored tore

Shrewsbury and so on, but on the question of specialist services it

does seem that the Welsh Government is concerned about it and may well

call it in, but that is not certain yet. We leave it there for now. We

can now head to the Conference where the Plaid Cymru Parliamentary

leader, Elfyn Llwyd is speaking now. The Scottish referendum and the

local European and the general elections are fast-arofing. We --

approaching. We are here in Plaid in a strong position to face each

challenges head on, but it seems to me that conferences are not only a

time for battle cries but also a time to reflect on our present

position. The upcoming second reports of the

Silk Commission and indeed the results of the Scottish referendum,

whatever the outcome, will indicate a new era for devolution in Wales.

And the pending elections provide our party with the opportunity to

put forward our proposals to change our nation for the better. With a

few weeks before the people of Anglesey go to the polls I would

like to pay tribute to the candidates and the unsung heroes,

the organisers and campaigners who show conviction to go out in the

rainy days, to knock on doors and deliver leaf llts and inspire

confidence in us all, but now is a good period to take stock. Shortly

after the resounding "yes" result in the 2011 referendum, your

excellent local AM, Mr Jones, pronounced that this signalled the

beginning of the decade to deliver in Wales. So how far have we come

in the dawning years of this decayed as a nation? The referendum

signalled change but change we know has been slow, and it comes because

of a tired and uninspired Labour Government in Cardiff Bay. Time

after time, our group in Westminster witnessed Labour fail

in their duty, fail miserabley in the duty in the situation, in to

the people of Wales, to be successful here.

Labour could have helped to cut structure funds and the CAP, there

has been betrayal of the majority of members of the vulnerable of the

abSteyning on the Welfare Reform Bill, serving to demonstrate whose

priorities come first for the Labour Party in Wales.

It is not Carwyn Jones to who at the are an yaebl, like the liberals

before them, Labour are the latest party to turn their backs on the

people of Wales. As they are seemingly seduced by the prospect

of power in Westminster. Again like the liberals before them, they have

forgotten the needs and aspirations of people that seven them there and

to whom they are supposed to be answerable. Plaid is the only party

free from this insidious Westminster influence. A party that

will always put the interests of Wales and her people first. A party

from Wales. The party of Wales. That is why it is so important to

retain the strong voice in Westminster, for as long as the

current constitutional make-up of the UK remains in place.

I would like at this junction to take this opportunity to pay

tribute to my colleague, Jonathan Edwards and Hywel Williams for the

tireless work that they do for their constituents and for the

country of Wales. The fact that the Dafydds, as I say,

are fighting our corn in the Lord's, is that we have a double lock on

holding the UK Government to account on every stage of the bills

that affect Wales. The past year has been no less dramatic in

Westminster but we have secured some successes. The economy, of

course, remains the main game in town. With Jonathan Edwards leading

Plaid's criticism of the UK's policies and its shocking diregard

of the people of Wales. Our charge has always been that in the light

of the unbalanced way of which the UK economy functions. Wales would

be better served by having more economic levers at its disposal,

but we have been offered peanuts. 12 months of negotiating between

the UK and Welsh governments resulted in only a token transfer

of taxation powers from Westminster to Cardiff Bay. To happen at some

non-specific time in the future. We, however, used the Autumn

Statement as a platform for promoting real growth and to call

for job-creating levers to boost the Welsh economy as well as

increased investment in the infrastructure. Jonathan Edwards

challenged the Government's transport policies to get Wales

better connected with the UK and the European mainland, pushing for

money to Wales as part of HS2 and calling for the rail industry to be

taken back to public hoip where it belongs. Both heened -- he and

Hywel Williams called for the reelectrification are the railways.

Hywel Williams, championed the rights of people in receipts of

housing benefits, winter fuel allowance and disability allowance,

as well as Remploy factory workers and those set to lose out as a

result of the Government's ill- thought through changes to

Government past pensions. They will have a devastating impact on

thousands of individuals. This week we led an opposition day debate

with our friends from Scotland and the Green Party on the Bedroom Tax.

We secured a vote of 224, which is not bad for a group of three.

He had spoke on bills spanning the economy, constitutional changes,

legal issues, welfare reform and many other vital issues. He has

continuesed to champion the cause of vulnerable in society, including

those who face losing legal representation unjustly and

families of workers who have suffered from industrial diseases

following contamination at work. For my part, I I continue to sit on

the Justice Committee and have spoken against plan to widen the

use of secret courts, supported the welfare of children in court cases

and rejected the Home Office decision to short list North Wales

as a possible site for a superprison. Plaid Cymru has called

for a local prison to strengthen links between inmates and their

communities on leaving prison and to facilitate relatives' visiting

times. A 2,000-plus superprison is not what north Wales need and the

America experience has shown it does not work. The new stalking law

came spwoo force in November. Hence fort stalking is a named offence

and protection for victims will be central to the treatment they

receive from the justice system. The fact that Plaid played such a

central part in this rink I goes to show on a UK platform our group can

punch above its weight in Westminster. This is to a great

externt due to the dedication of our team, and our wonder of staff

at Westminster. And our researcher who joined the team, our press

officer and last, but not least our hard-work office manager who keeps

us all on track. Now, of course, is far from the first time that our

group has punched above its weight. This week marked ten years since

the illegal invasion of Iraq by UK forces. You will remember the Plaid

group was opposed to the incursion and along with our colleagues Adam

Pryce and Simon Thomas called for the impeachment of Tony Blair over

the so - called dodgy dossier. Ten years, 178 UK deaths, several

hundred thousand Iraqi deaths late eshes Tony Blair still refuses to

accept responsibility for those deaths, or to recognise that the

war was a failure. On this issue at least it gives me no pleasure at

all to have been proven right at the beginning. Closer to home the

silk inquiry will provide an opportunity to promote Welsh

interests, an opportunity which we must all utilise to the full extent.

Indeed, the difference between Plaid and the other parties came

out starkly in their contributions to the inquiry. For here again we

saw Plaid on the front foot and unionists behind. We should send

our submission to the Labour HQ, so they can announce it as their party

policy ten years later. The Silk Commission has published its first

report recommending the Welsh Assembly should be given borrowing

powers and greater control over taxation. We have been calling for

this for many years. And within a year the commission will publish

its second report and here too Plaid Cymru can lay claim to having

set the stage for where progress yir Welsh politic should be heading.

In our submission we have called for the devolution of justice

powers to Wales, setting up a justice system, including powers

over police, probation, youth justice and prisons. We have called

for the devolution of powers governing natural resources, water,

energy the crown estate, jop job centre plus, broadcasting and other

matters. We view the commission as an opportunity for Wales to be more

democratically accountable and in the drieg seat of its own destiny

and we believe the road that leads from Silk, yes, the Silk Road, will

propel us to the next stage. But Silk has tide Labour in knots. But

that is not hard. The Welsh Government has announced it

recognises the expediency of devolving justice powers to Wales.

As soon as Carwyn Jones announced this, he set obstacles, like a

closing time drunk, eesm time Labour takes a step fear ward, they

lunch back. They claim it would be impossible to afford devolving the

system, but where senior judges say differencely, Labour spots

impediments. But Plaid Cymru say sees potential. We have ambition

for Wales, they do not.Ing of, further devolution will be

accompanied with sufficient funding for the powers. That igs obvious.

But, the justice system in Scotland costs less per head than either

Wales or England. Devolution should not have to equate to an increase

in cost. Undoubtedly we are aware of the short comings in the

constitutional arrangements. Even after the 2011 referendum the

agreement is complicated. Establishing who is responsibility

is whose is nearly always an excruciateing process. Were we to

adopt the reserve powers model, which areas renon-responsibility of

Westminster could be set out and all of the powers allocated to the

National Assembly. That is why we will be pushing for a new

government of Wales Act to be published soon after 2014. By which

time the results of Scottish referendum will be known and what a

game changer that is likely to be. Our Scottish cousin have secured a

critical referendum which will have a profound impact on these island

islands. Make no mistake the tech tock yin -- tectonic plates are

shifting. We must be ready to adopt -- adapt to circumstances as they

present and strive for parity with our Celtic neighbours to ensure

that ours is a partnership of equals in this changing union. We

are already part of the way through the way to deliver change and

playing catch up with our policies is not good enough for Labour to be

doing. We know Plaid Cymru is the only party that can offer real

leadership for Wales to combat the indecision and the internal

divisions which have characterised Labour's recent time in office. In

the coming months and years u we must communicate that leadership to

the vetters. Here on the shores of Ynis Mon, we anticipate moment us

to changes and we can sense a surging tide. The political

landscape of the UK is changing and it is vital that Wales keeps pace

with that change. There is a well known Welsh saying that derive from

the fourth branch of this. In other words, he who is the head, must be

a bridge. We too must take on the role of leadership in Wales and

must forge the links and the alliances necessary to ensure our

great nation's success and aim to be the party of Government in 2016.

Let us face these elections with our heads held high, ready to

surmount any hurdles which may lie in our path. We often here of the

loss of the triple-A by George Osborne's bungling. But in Wales,

we have our own triple-A. We must turn our ambition, our aspirations

into achievements. Think of it, we have word class singers, actors,

fast developing Welsh democrat circumstances natural resours

second to none, human resources, by the way well done to those who won

last night. We have the largest youth festival in Europe. And

speaking of achievements, well done to Swansea on their fantastic

result last weekend. I would like to wish Cardiff City well in Nair

journey to the Premiership and my hope club Wrexham in a few week

time. -- in their journey. You noi, our rugby players are coming good

as usual. Showing sometimes that it is brawn as well as brains that you

want. But as you know, spirits here are high. Spirits across Wales are

high. We must capitalise on this confidence and we must ride the

tide in order to secure success for our children and the generations to

come in a fair and a prosperous Wales. APPLAUSE. Before head off to

James Williams at the conference, that wasn't the first time you have

heard that quote in a political context? No we always like to have

a bit of trifr ya. -- trivya. He who leads must be a bridge was

quoted by James Callaghan when he became First Minister. It was like

his verse of Margaret Thatcher's quoting St Francis. That is the

year I was born. Now off to someone born a few later, James Williams is

over in Beaumaris. What is your favourite quote from that book?

There is too many to pick. But thank you nor asking that. I will

pass to our guest. The speech was calling for parity with Scotland

after the referendum. I I suem it is something you agree with. Yes if

you look at the different devolution agreements we have,

there are simple questions to be asked about what powers are

reserved. And we have seen the UK and the Welsh Government

disagreeing on whether this or that has been devolved and whether they

have competence or we have competence and in its simplest form

there is a tidying up exercise to be done and adopting a reserve

powers model similar to Scotland, whereas everything is deed except

for certain areas. At the moment, certain areas are devolved and seem

are not. He called it a game- changer. And he said Wales needs to

get on the front foot and lead the debate. Yes. I'm not convinced

people have registered The impact of the referendum in Scotland.

Which ever way the result goes. If there is a yes vote for

independence, people will see a changed United Kingdom. If it is a

no vote, that progression will continue in Scotland and it will

have a real impact and we need to be ready and start that debate so

people know what the Plymouth kaigss will be and what the

potential -- what the implications will be. Leanne Wood talked about

saying look, if Scotland goes yes, it is only a matter of time before

Wales does? Yes, it is not just Scotland. Other nations are having

referendum on becoming independent or not. We are seeing transitional

period for European politics, which being a keen European and Wales is

part of Europe, we need to be part of that as well. But it is I think

a matter of time. If Scotland moves to yes, the vastly changed nature

of the United Kingdom means there will have to be a vastly changed

settlement between Wales and the rest of the UK. We have been joined

by two other guests. Jonathan Edwards, we heard we need parity

the Scotland and it is something the party would be keen to see. It

is something you agree with? that is the most powerful message

in Welsh politics, parity with Scotland. That is what carried the

yes campaign. We live in interest bg times. There are developments,

regardless of the result in the referendum. The fact that there is

a referendum happening changes the whole game. The focus moves from

the nationalist parties and justifies why we want a future

outside Britain, it focuses on the unionist party to justify high the

union should remain and it changes the hole debate. Does it sound

negative, parity with Scotland, you have to be more ambitious. Well

Scotland have more powers than Wales and that was enshriened in

the first referendum deal and where Scotland was ten gleers ago, we

tend to be -- year ago, we tend cob coming behind them. But we are a

nation of the same stature as Scotland. We think we should have

parity. The position of the unionist parties is that Wales is a

second class nation and Scotland is more of a nation than Wales. That

The Labour Party have stepped on your toes a bit and gone further

than you expect? We always welcome converts but once the submission

was in, we saw Labour MPs attacking the submission. It shows the rouge

rifts and divisions within the parties. There is no question. It

is a clear indication to Wales, that they want more powers devolved

to the Welsh Government. So that we can assume our own affairs. The

only party to drive that will be the Plaid Cymru.

And you are willing to, you are open to discussions on the issue of

devolution, even talking about boundary changes and possibly

passing that to the UK Government? Well I think that we are certainly

looking at a hung Parliament come the next general election. We have

outline lined there will be not a deal to keep a Tory government in

power, and as the Labour Party, unless they embrace a radical

agenda, we will not offer them support if they are in a position

to deal with the Liberal Democrats. Thank you very much.

Now we talk to Gill Evans. Europe being a hot topic.

UKIP have done well recently it seems on exercising the

Conservative Party, especially, where does Plaid stand in it? How

relevant are they in this debate? We have never been against a

referendum on Europe. We have never really had a debate about Wales in

Europe. We have supported that in the past. We feel that there is

nothing to fear from EU membership. In fact, tro the contrary. Welsh --

Wales benefits tremendously from the EU in terms of trade, with the

funding in terms of agriculture, with the jobs within our

communities. So we see our future clearly in Europe but Europe has to

be reformed. To be more democratic, more accountable. So we wanted to

campaign for more change but really we have to look at the Welsh

National interest. The fear is that is going to be lost in the whole UK

debate, whether the UK is in or out of Europe it is a different debate

in Wales. That is what we need to be putting across. Has it been

difficult to get Wales' voice heard in the debates? No, actually, it's

been a challenge but it's been possible to do that because of

course in terms of other countries and the other countries view Wales,

they see the problems that we have, what benefits we have from Europe,

what we can contribute to Europe. So I think that there is an

understanding of the important role of smaller countries. We don't get

that so much within the UK but certainly in a European context

Wales is a normal European nation. What we want is equality with the

other nations, of course, and the ability for Wales to be voting at

the table in Europe, rather than David Cameron for us.

Carwyn Jones, the Welsh First Minister said that the cuts to the

EU budgets in the next round is devastating for us, I assume that

you agree with it? How bad could it be? We have seen cuts coming to

Wales for years, how bad could it potentially be? Absolutely. I

oppose any cuts in the E ument budget. We get that money because

of levels of poverty in Wales. Because of the deprivation. That

will is caused, of course by years of UK mismanagement of our economy.

But we need the money to build our economy. Any cuts to that budget,

that money coming to Wales is devastating. 80% of our farmers

depend on the payments from Europe to keep their businesses going.

Any cuts will be bad news for the Welsh economy. That why in

Parliament, when we are voting in Parliament. Parliament must approve

the budget, then I'll be voting against that. I cannot vote for

cuts in money coming to Wales. You say that Wales benefits in

money from the European Union, and yet the St David's Day poll shows

that Welsh people are torn on whether they want to be a part of

the European Union, did it surprise you? No. A lot of the coverage we

get, the information that we get about Europe comes from the UK

level it is very negative. We have seen all of the attention giving to

UKIP, all of the scaremongering we have heard about Europe. What we

have to do is look at the real picture, the real facts in term ofs

-- in terms of Wales. I think that when people are gived a balanced

picture, what we benefit within Europe and what would happen

outside of Europe, I am confident that the vast majority of people

would see our future with Europe. Thank you very much.

Big topics being discussed here. Now back to you in the studio, carl.

-- Carl. Now, let's focus on what Elfyn Llwyd had to say.

We hear members of Plaid Cymru talking often, that they want what

Scotland has got. We want parity with Scotland,

whatever the result come the devolution referendum next year. If

that result is a "no" it damages Plaid Cymru, I suppose, as much as

it damages the SNP? Doesn't it? know that if it is a "no" there

will be a tranche of extra devolution to Scotland. The part of

the reason debt, that they will hand over powers, they are right,

that message of parity with Scotland plays well with the Welsh

voters. So it is a logical path for Plaid

to follow. Now, if there was a "yes" vote, the indications that is

the less likely option of the two, then, of course everything would be

up in the air in terms of the future relationship between England,

Wales and Northern Ireland. There would have to be serious head-

scratch being how that relationship would work. You know, parity for

Scotland then would be slightly out of the window. I don't think that

Plaid would be calling for immediate independence.

This idea of keeping up with the Mc Jones es, the Silk Commission, to

look at the powers that the Assembly should get, the deadline

for that passed yesterday. We had an outline of what Plaid Cymru were

calling for. No great surprises. We heard what Carwyn Jones wants for

the Welsh Government, nothing from Labour but we have from the other

two parties? What car wince Jones wail say is that the Welsh

Government's subsmigs a submission for the Labour Party.

There are some who would disagree with that? But they will say this

is a Labour government, that this is their submission. The really

important one we have not seen yet is the UK Government's submission.

Really what is going on in the Silk Commission is a balancing up of

what the UK Government is prepared to offer and what the Welsh

Government is prepared to ask for. It may be that the UK Government on

taxation in particular is going to offer more than the Welsh

Government has asked for it will be interesting to see then how the six

commission squares that circle. was interesting in the week we were

hearing about the Plaid's submission to the next phase of

Silk, the Conservatives laying out their reaction to the first party

in terms of taxation, so they are still to find out what Plaid are

going to do and what Labour are to do as well? Well, you heard a sort

of indicative policy in principle. That if the Assembly had powers to

vary the income tax, this is what they would do. In the

Conservative's case it was to cut the top rate in tax in Wales. If

the powers do come it is a long way away. What they are trying to say

is that this is the sort of thing that we would do, rather than make

a policy commitment. You could not make that policy commitment this

far out. I don't think that Plaid will make particular commitments

about that. They will say let's have commitments about things that

we already control, like the commercial business rates. We can

put that to the test now. We heard from her earlier nonthe speech

today, I'm lighted -- -- delighted to talk with the leader of Plaid

Cymru, Leanne Wood. Good afternoon. We were talking about what your

party would do in view of any taxation powers which were devolved

to the Assembly. We heard what the Conservatives were doing this week.

You alluded it to it in your speech. Can you give an idea, what you may

like to do, should the powers be desolved? I will not give a --

devolved? I will not give a commitment to do with tax rate in

power. We are far too far away from the situation it looks like it

could be another seven years before we have tax-raising powers. We have

no idea what the economy will look like at that point.

You are a left of centre politicians it may suggest that you

may favour tax cuts. Have you anything thank that you may have

been thinking about? You must have been chat being this over cups of

tea or pints at the conference conference? People have different

views. What is yours? We are not in a position when we are so far away

from the reality of having tax- raising powers to put figures on

this now. It, there is lots of work that we

can do for the economy now, here, today. Certainly that is what I

want Plaid Cymru to be focusing on. You said yesterday, it sent shivers

down our spine as political journalists that your campaign for

the 2016 elections starts now. That is a heck of a long campaign. Does

it mean you are ignoring the 2015 general election campaign? You will

not be taking an interest in that, then, will you? No. The 2016

campaign is our priority. The 2015 and the 2014 European elections are

steps on the way to that. We are going to be producing our

manifestos to are -- for both elections in due course and the

work we are understaking within the party will help towards those

election too. We see 2014 and 2015 as rungs on the ladder, if you like,

to 2016. You have made it clear in all three peaches you have give no-

one party leader that is three in a year. A few to write, that the

economy has been the priority for you. You have told us the

aspirations, more jobs, helping businesses to grow. When do we get

the meat on the bone? How do you propose to be able to do that?

we do have a long time yet before the 2016 elections. Does that mean

you don't know? I have Adam Price and others working on the Economy

Commission. They are producing papers. There is a paper due

shortly from them. There will be other contributions

through things like our Wickie manifesto. So a process to go

through before we put through the programme of government for 2016

but two-and-a-half years to put that through before the election. I

am not a -- going to rush. We have put things out on our policies on

public procurement. We can create lots of jobs by just getting that

right. So we will be continuing to put policies out there throughout

the course of the run-up to the next three elections but as I say,

we are not in any rush as 2016 is two-and-a-half years away.

I don't know if you are in a rush to choose which seat you may like

to contest in the 2016 election. You have said you will contest the

constituency seat. I know that perhaps members in the party are

considering their options. I'm sure you will not tell us which seat it

is but do you have which seat -- a seat in mind? Do you know which one

you want? I have a couple of options. There is more coming your

way on that. I am discussing things with party members and researching

pieces, so on, but I'm not in a position to make an announcement

yet. When I am, I am sure you will be the first to know, or one of the

first to know, Carl. That is good news. I will hold you to that. Are

you looking to win? We are looking at all aspects of the different

constituencies. There is a number of factors to weigh up. I am

weighing up all of those factors. The party has been re-jiing the way

it runs itself. Certainly you have created a leadership team, which

has brought in a number of people. They say, to help advise you. Are

they helping you to lead the party? Do you feel that your role as the

leader has been diluted as you have brought these people around you?

I don't feel that my role as a leader has been diluted at all N

fact it was pointed out to me after our recent Conference which changed

the constitution that I am now Plaid Cymru's most powerful leader

in the history of the party, apparently. No. I have a group of

people working with me on the leader's team. We work well

together. We work together, but there is no doubt who the leader is.

You have people around you within that leadership team. You alluded

to Adam Price eler. Is Adam Price someone who you would like to have

as part of the government if you are elected in First Minister.

Would you like him to be a minister in your Cabinet? Adam is a talented

politician. We are working together now on putting together a programme

of government. If he is an Assembly member after 2016, I'm fairly

confident that he will be in it, How confident are you that you will

standing for a seat in the first place? Can you ask me that again.

How confident are you that Adam Pryce will be contesting a seat to

get the Khaned -- guaranteed cabinet seat you have offered him.

That is a question you will need to put to Adam Pryce. Thank you for

joining us. That was Leanne Wood. Let's see what Vaughan made. I

thought you were going to chip in and ask some questions. Hadid you

make of the answers? -- What did you make of the answers. It was

interesting that she presents that team as being a strength. To an

extent that is true. The Plaid Cymru constitution was created in a

prev devolution age and it had a structure that was in some ways

more in common with with the charity or you know a federation of

male voice choirs, you had a president and a chairman and a

committee, the leadership team does politicise the constitution of

Plaid Cymru. In term of what seat she will stand in, we could play

guessing games. Well let's do that. I guess it has to be a southern

seat. Because if you're in the North Wales region, there is an

element of if you win a constituency seat you lose a list

seat. My instinct would be that they are probably looking at

Caerphilly, possibly a seat that Plaid Cymru has come close to

winning in the past. But the problem with those seats is they're

seats where Labour is on 50% plus. There is not any other votes to

squeeze. You have to convert people from Labour to Plaid. They may look

at somewhere where there are other parties' votes to squeeze, maybe

Cardiff West. I mean Cardiff West in ass my terms, not in Westminster

terms, in Assembly terms, Plaid do well there. Until the last local

elections they had the largest number of councillors and they

could put a tactical squeeze on the Liberal Democrat and Tory vote. How

Leanne Wood ho, presents herself as being to left of Labour, puts the

squeeze on the Conservative vote sh I'm not sure. She has promised us

an answer soon. The health service has been a key topic at the

conference and the party spokeswoman is Elin Jones and she

addressed the conference yesterday, talking about health reorganisation

in North Wales and ambulance waiting times across Wales.

decision by the health board to relocate neo-natal to Arrow Park on

the Wirral is extraordinary. For a Welsh Government to allow that

happen without calling in the decision would be an act of gross

negligence. How many times has Carwyn Jones criticised the changes

to the so-called NHS in England and they're now allowing one of their

health boards to decommission a service in Wales and to buy that

service from a foundation hospital in the English system. It is the

Welsh minister that gave the green light for these kinds of decisions

to be made by her health boards 18 months ago. The Welsh Government

has to call in the decision by Betsi Cadwaladr health board to

relocate the service to the Wirral. Otherwise they will have failed to

stand up for Wales and allowed them to be rolled ore and tickled by a

Tory health minister that. Would be Jeremy Hunt by the way and there is

no greater punishment on anyone than to be tickled by Jeremy Hunt.

I wouldn't wish that even on Carwyn Jones. There is no doubt there is a

real crisis within the NHS. There is most definitely a lamb lack of

political leadership and direction. When you couple this with the lack

of resources and you can almost see the fear in the managers' eyes.

Early in her term of office, I put it to Lesley Griffiths that she

could become an Ed wee sna Hart command and control time of

minister or a Brian gibbons, leave it to them Soo see what kind of

mess we get into mfrplt she is most definitely of the Brian Gibbons

school. Her response to the ambulance funning crisis in the

autumn of last year was to set up a revie. That is the eighth review

into the ambulance service in about the same number of years. And the

ambulance service is stretched from day-to-day. We had the ambulance

response statistics this week. The response times in one area are

worse than any other part of Wales. Only 47.2% of ambulances were at

the scene of an emergency call within eight minutes. Fewer than

one in two of the ambulances within the target time. In the Betsi

Cadwaladr area as a hole the figure was 64%. People in the area are

badly served and if greater centralisation occurs, then

ambulance response times can only get worse. By the way, the

ambulance times in enies Monday are worse than the rest of Wales and

the times for the whole of Wales are worse than come par tifr times

in England and Scotland. Yet Lesley Griffivities is prepared to pay a

higher salary to the ambulance trust chair here in Wales than is

paid to chairs in England or in Scotland. The people of Wales

deserve better from a Welsh Labour government. It is time we had a

government working for if every part of Wales. Where there will be

little time difference in waiting for an ambulance in different areas

and where v Iry part of Wales is important and public services are

accessible to everyone in Wales. If you ask me, it is time we once

again had a government for the whole of Wales. It is time we had a

one Wales government and this time led by a Plaid Cymru First Minister.

That was Elin Jones speaking yesterday I think. But we will go

back live to the conference and James has the Plaid Parliamentary

leader keeping him company. Thank you. My final guest is the

Parliamentary leader. Your message parity with Scotland? Yes, it is

important that we are ready for changes that are going to happen in

the coming 20 months. Because which ever way the Scottish referendum

goes, it is going to be a major game-changer. We have to be

thinking of the new model in term of parity for all of the countries

within the United Kingdom. I think it is common-sense, but we can't

leave it until after the results of the referendum and we need to think

carefully and think forward. And what is wrong with having parity?

Parity with our friends in England and Scotland, and Northern Ireland.

Why not? You're a small team of MPs in Westminster, three of you, how

much of a challenge is it going to be to get your voice heard and get

the arguments across? We have never been greater than four. When I

started first in 1992, devolution was a minority game. No one was

interested. Alex Salmond and one or two others were making the case,

but nobody else. Now, it is central to everything we do. Every bill

that comes before the House of Commons has to state whether it is

an England bill, an England only bill or England and Wales. So it is

central to everything that we do. I hope that we have played our parts

in getting to this particular point now. How are you going to get

support on this issue. Jonathan Edwards, your fellow MP, said they

may be able to strike a deal on boundary changes with the

Conservative half of the Government. Is that something you could

countenance. It is not something I am considering. What will you

offer? I am not sure whether you will need anything. What you need

to do first is see what Silk come up and when we have the reports, we

will consider that vairfully and move forward from there. What I do

know is we shall be pressing for a new government of Wales bill in

2014. I think it is going to come. What I don't want is for that to be

kicked into the long grass. Having gone through the costly albeit

welcome and professional way in which the commission have dealt

with everything, we need to act now. Part of the discussions with right

thinking people across the spectrum and it is not just ours who are

keen on going further down the devolution road. There are others

in all the major parties, even in Westminster who consider that to be

appropriate. Thank you. The store stalls are pack up and it is the

end of Plaid Cymru's spring conference. Wack to 06789 Sorry for

the interference -- back to you. Sorry for the interference. The

signal is clear in the office. Vaughan James paints a picture of

the conference pack up. How do we assess it? Two days where not so

much of a stall for the party to set out. Just a keep them ticking

along with a nod to the election on Anglesey? Yes, I think this was a

conference that was all about consolidating around the message

they have been pushing. Plaid Cymru's autumn conference is the

more important of the two. This spring one is in some ways a rally

for the troops. It has gone reasonably well. Leanne Wood f you