18/10/2012 Question Time


18/10/2012

David Dimbleby chairs Question Time from Easterhouse in Glasgow. Panellists include Nicola Sturgeon MSP, Ruth Davidson MSP and Margaret Curran MP.


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Good evening. Tonight's Question Time comes from Easterhouse in

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And a big welcome to our audience and our panel, the Deputy First

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Minister of Scotland, Nicola Sturgeon. Labour's shadow Scottish

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Secretary down at Westminster, Margaret Curran. The leader of the

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Scottish Conservative Party, Ruth Davidson. The Scottish editor of

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the Daily Telegraph, Alan Cochrane. And the trade union leader, Mark

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Serwotka. APPLAUSE

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Right, our first question tonight from Stephen Barri. Why isn't the

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Government doing more about rising gas and electricity prices.

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Mark Serwotka. Well, that's a very good question and the fact they are

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not doing more I think tells us clearly how they are out-of-touch

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with the every day pressures that working men and women and people up

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and down the country and particularly here in Scotland are

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actually facing. And because some advisor has whispered this to David

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Cameron he appears off the hoof to announce that he wants to legislate

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that everybody has to get the lowest tariff and it is clear the

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Government are in disarray and the reality there is no good

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legislating for the lowest tariffs if the tariffs aren't low. I looked

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at the statistics here and saw that the profits made by Scottish Power

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and by British Gas are absolutely Astra nomical and when the prices

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of goes goes up, we're asked to pay more. When the wholesale price of

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gas goes down, we still pay more. This tells us the companies are

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making making billions of pounds worth of profits and they are going

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into their profits and to the shareholders and the poor consumer

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who has very little choice, who has to have gas and electricity are the

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one who is get above inflation rises. The current rises are four

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times the level of what the average pay rise is. And therefore, the

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Government, I think, need to accept that profits should not be made at

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times like this. I think there is a massive case to be made for

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nationalising the utilities and ensuring that the public owns the

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gas and electricity supply and so then we can feel the benefits

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rather than us constantly fork out while the rich get richer and we

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suffer more. APPLAUSE

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Ruth Davidson, perhaps you could clarify what you think the Prime

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Minister was saying on behalf of the Conservative Party and as

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indeed as Prime Minister, we will be legislating so energy companies

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have to give the lowest tariff to their customers and he repeated it

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tonight and Mark says it is hog wash. Do you think it is hog wash,

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or does he mean it? As he said again today, yes, there is going to

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be legislation brought forward in order to do what this gentleman has

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asked us to do. To make sure we get a better deal for people who are

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seeing their power and their gas go up. The Prime Minister has acted on

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this already. He held an energy summit with the big six this year.

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He introduced a situation where people had to be told of better

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tariffs if they didn't exist. Now he said that's not enough, we need

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to go further. And why do you think he he hadn't

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told his Energy Minister or anybody else, today, they were over the

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shop on it? I think what you have seen is the normal function of

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Government which is we have seen a problem, we have identified a

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problem. We are looking to legislate in order to rectify that

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problem and we will bring forward details as we go forward. We are on

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the side of hard-working householders who condition afford

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their gas and electricity bill. There will be an Energy Bill and

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the details will be explained in the House of Commons and this will

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help people who are really struggling and this is because the

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Government is on the side of people who are who are struggling with gas

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and electricity bills. Margaret Curran, it sounds good.

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It is the normal shambles. We have the West Coast Main Line and the

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Budget and now the energy shambles. I was in the House of Commons when

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the Prime Minister made his announcement of enforcing companies

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to give people the lowest tariff. The next day, within 24 hours, it

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had unravelled. His Energy Minister didn't know what he was talking

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about when he was required to go to the House of Commons today, he

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wouldn't confirm what the Prime Minister said. Today, we are

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getting an announcement after announcement. We really have to

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understand what families are going through here. We have got falling

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wages and it has become one of the biggest pressures on your household

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income. He said in the House of Commons that you had 13 years to do

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this and didn't do it under Labour and he clicks his fingers and has

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done it? Nothing has happened since his energy summit last year. What

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we announced at our conference is what you need to do, is change the

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energy market. We would want to abolish Ofgem. You need to have

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more control of the energy companies. You particularly have to

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stop the six big companies operating in the way they do. You

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need to open the books and get more transparency and Labour is sure if

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they won't bring down the prices, we will force them to bring down

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their prices when they are making excessive profits.

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Labour said they would do what this Government is going to do for every

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household for the over 75s. To say it can't be done is not true. This

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Government is going to bring forward legislation, not just for

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over 75 households, but for all households because they recognise a

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problem. The woman in the striped T-shirt.

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It is ironic to see Ruth and Margaret arguing over this.

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Successive Tory and Labour governments allowed it to get to a

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stage where people are in fuel poverty, who are choosing whether

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or not they heat their house or they have food on their table. Now,

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this is is been allowed to go for successive periods since

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privatisation with no regulation. The Labour Party had 13 years like

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you said and they did nothing during that time. It is rich now

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you have no opportunity to lead the Government that you are criticising

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the Tories who haven't gone far enough and are being reactionary,

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but both I think you have to hang your heads in shame that it has

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come to this position. APPLAUSE

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Alan Cochrane. I think that there is no doubt that this has shot to

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the top of the Government's list of priorities and there is a panic at

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Westminster I suspect at Number Ten. What there is also is chaos and

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disorder about how they are going to do this. It is remarkable that

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Ed Davey didn't know a single thing about this announcement by the

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Prime Minister. He said it twice. But what Cameron, I think we should

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give him credit, I know the previous speaker wouldn't give him

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credit. Give him credit. He understands the problem that only

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10% of people switch from one energy company to another to get

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lower tariffs. So he is trying to get the companies, force the

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companies, Mark is right, they have been behaving badly. There is six

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of them. They follow follow each other in sequence, putting their

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prices up. What he is trying to do is get them on the lower tariff and

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Labour's suggestion that the companies will then increase their

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tariffs, I dare them to do that. They wouldn't get away with it.

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The man in the blue shirt up there in the third row.

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It seems to me this is another example where profit is brought in

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to a deregular rated -- deregulated environment. What shocks me is when

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people are surprised when companies bringing profit will be looking to

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make money out of it and making the most money that they can.

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Do you think what the Prime Minister announced is an

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improvement on a smoke screen? is likely to have little effect in

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reality. I think it will be another fob.

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Nicola Sturgeon. The drebg answer to Stephen's --

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direct answer to Stephen's question, the Government should be doing more

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to tackle rising energy prices. This is a really serious issue for

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every 5% increase in energy prices another 46,000 people in Scotland

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are pushed into fuel poverty. In energy rich Scotland, that's a

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scandal and it is time that something was done about it.

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Frankly the way that David Cameron has behaved in the past 24 hours

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does nothing and is an appalling way to treat families and

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individuals who are struggling to pay their gas and electricity bills.

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I think people are just fed up with tough talk on this. What they want

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is some meaningful action. Why do you not think this is meaningful

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action if he does achieve it? has no idea how to achieve it. Ed

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Miliband in 2008 when he was Energy Minister said it was time to get

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tough with the energy companies. He failed to do anything about it.

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Ofgem, almost a year ago, published proposals that haven't been

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implemented. The Energy Bill that David Cameron talks about today,

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was published in May it didn't contain a thing about consumer

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protection. People are sick of hearing people talk tough. It is

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time for action. That's what people want and I think David Cameron

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should just get on with it and do something that can be delivered.

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APPLAUSE That's what he is doing.

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He said something yesterday that fell apart before the words were

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out of his mouth. He says tonne, "I'm sticking to my guns, but I

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can't tell you any of the detail of how it will be done. That will have

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to wait." People can be forgiven for thinking that he is making it

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up as he goes along. It is not good enough when people are struggling

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to pay their bills. The woman in pink.

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What I think is shocking is that the London School of Economics has

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estimated that 27,000 people in this country die through excess,

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winter deaths every year. If a wee dog froze to death there would be a

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public outcry. I agree with Mark, I think that the fuel companies

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should be in public ownership. What I think is really sad, in 1982, I

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became involved in the community campaign at Easterhouse to find a

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long-term solution to dampness, fuel poverty and the associated

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health problems. And in 1992, the people in this community zem

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community demonstrated. They reduced the heating bills to �5 a

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week. How much has it changed in

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Easterhouse? The capacity of people to heat their houses. Is it getting

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worse? It is worse. It is worse.

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It is worse because now, it used to be people regarded as fuel poverty

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when they paid 10 percent of their income. Now the working poor, the

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the unemployed are having to pay 35% of their income on fuel.

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Margaret Curran, do you agree with the point? Yes, and that's

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significant work that Kathy and many people have done in housous

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and it is -- Easterhouse and it is to be respected. There is

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significant improvements in Easterhouse particularly around the

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insulation, you can reduce people's housing bills through good

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insulation and through good housing investment. Some of that has been

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done and the budget is getting cut back. Nonetheless, there is a real

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issue about energy prices and I'm not denying that and the Government

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will not come forward with anything that seems to be effective. What we

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need to do, has a tougher regulation in the energy market and

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we need to understand the pace of increased prices has been enormous

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and they have to take effective action and really make the six

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companies behave and bring wholesale prices when they go up

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and they don't pass on when they come down and they need to be made

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to do that. I will take a brief point from you.

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I want to say the problem goes beyond the prices though. You talk

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about the rate of increase of salaries compared to the increase

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of the price of fuel. I haven't seen a salary increase in over four

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years now and I work in social care. Our salaries have been frozen for

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this hole period of time and -- whole period of time and the last

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time there was any talk, there was talk of it being frozen for the

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next five years. How are we meant to compete with rising prices when

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our salaries aren't improving either?

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APPLAUSE We have got more questions to go

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through. You can join in Tonight's You can follow the Question Time

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account and our Twitter panellist is on our Twitter website.

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If you prefer to text us, push the Red Button to see what other

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texters are saying. If you want to text your comments:

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A question from Michelle. Do you believe Scotland would be

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better off as an independent nation? Would Scotland be better

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off as an independent nation? A referendum in two years time on

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this issue. There is two years to talk about it and we have ten

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minutes to talk about it tonight! I will be voting no in the

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referendum... APPLAUSE

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It's an historic moment. I think the partnership that we have across

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the nations of the United Kingdom works well and works effectively. I

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think it can grow and develop. We live in a changing world with

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climate change, with global economic circumstances changing,

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with terrorism. I think the time is not to build walls around us, but

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it's actually to work together, to pull together, not break apart. I

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would challenge the SNP on what vision of independence they have.

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Sometimes the core argument I think you will hear Nicola Sturgeon say

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later is that we need Scotland to be independent so that we can have

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full control of economic levers. It's a funny vision of independence

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that we are getting because exactly what will that control be? It looks

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like our interest rates, you know, that our mortgages will be set by

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the Bank of England which will be effectively a foreign power, you

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know. Even our chief economic adviser is beginning to say they

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are making this up as they go along, John Kaye and Alex Salmond used to

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quote a great deal. They are using a model, a fiscal model which is

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the core of the problems in the eurozone. Why would we want to

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borrow that now? I don't know. It doesn't stack up. It doesn't make

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seasons. Why would we make our biggest competitor? I think the

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partnership is the union works well. We can make Scotland a strong

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country. Devolution has worked. But one thing that be kill devolution

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is if we vote for independence. I want devolution to continue. It's

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even independence or it's devolution and I think that's going

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to be the best deal for Scotland. APPLAUSE

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Nicola Sturgeon? Well, yes I believe Scotland would be better

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off as an independent country. Just to balance that up, I'll be voting

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yes in the referendum. APPLAUSE

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BOOS The rest of the UK will always be strong. I'm the granddaughter of

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an Englishwoman and I don't think it does anybody any faves to sew

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the seeds of division that people like Margaret Curran create. What?!

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Three reasons. Three big reasons why we'd be better off independent.

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Firstly, it's better and makes more sense that the big decisions about

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the future of our country are taken by the people who live here. If you

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asked anybody in another country do you thinker you are better off

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independent, they would look at you as if they were daft because they

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take their independence for granted. Secondly, we'd be better off

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financially. If you look at the last independent figures that are

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available where �1.7 billion is the figure we have for being better off

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in the UK, �500 for every person in Scotland. Thirdly and lastly, I

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think it would p right for us to be able to decide for ourselves how to

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invest Scotland's resources to protect the kinds of things that

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Margaret's party now want to get rid of. Rubbish. Rubbish. Free

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education, free welfare instead of spending money on Trident weapons

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of mass destruction. That's why I think Scotland would be better off

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as a proud independent country. it wouldn't be independent. How can

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you have control of your economic levers if interest rates are set.

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We have fiscal control in order to grow our economy to make sure that

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instead of watching the Tories dismantle our welfare state, we can

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invest in the things that matter to us. That's the value of

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independence. The mab man in the checked shirt -? Let's get to the

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nub of the matter, what model of an independent Scotland is it going to

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be based on? Austerity? The Keltic Tigheer in Ireland which destroyed

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the Irish economy which the SNP not so long ago were backing. Alex

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Salmond was very much a pro-Celtic Tiger. Will it be a race to the

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bottom. Based on lowering wages? Based on slice up the Health

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Service? Based on keeping the energy companies and railway

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companies in the hands of big business? Or will it be based on a

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socialist model based on the ordinary needs of people wanting,

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based on the leaves. What is your view? Socialist model. It's got to

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be based on bringing levers of the economy up. To answer Michelle's

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question. Scotland could be an independent country but not

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necessarily better as an independent country in my view.

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There's no doubt that Scotland - there is nothing wrong with the

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idea of an independent Scotland. It could be independent, no doubt

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about that. Economically, Scotland could survive. Perhaps almost

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certainly not as well as it survived now, but I do think in

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answer to the guy in the checked shirt, that's your name now, the

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model is, keep the Queen, stay in the Commonwealth, keep the pound,

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let the City of London decide your economic policy. That is not the

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idea of independence that Nicola's activists will be demanding

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tomorrow and Saturday at the conference in Perth. The man with

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spectacles, another checked shirt? It would be to Nicola in that if

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you take other independent countries, like say Ireland and

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Iceland, Alex Salmond was saying how wonderfully they were doing

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then. If we look now, both of them have gone bust and need massive

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bail outs. If that's the future for Scotland which unfortunately I

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think it will be, that will not be a reason to vote yes in a

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referendum but sorry I can't think of any other reason why I would.

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APPLAUSE The woman in the front?

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referendum is two years away. In the peen time, Alex Salmond's got

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legal advice which has been paid for by the Scottish Government

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which is paid by me as a taxpayer. Why is he refusing to divulge what

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legal advice that is. Which legal advice - joining the Europe -

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European Union? Yes, what's he got to hide? Just for viewers outside

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Scotland, it's said that the SNP took advice on whether they would

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be automobile to join the EU. What was that advice?

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ministerial code that binds all ministers, not just in Scotland but

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across the UK and this is a point thatlen agrees with, says that

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ministers are not allowed to disclose A whether they've got

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legal advice and the content of it. If Alex Salmond was to answer that

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question, Margaret's colleagues in the Scottish Parliament would be

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making complaints about it for breaching the ministerial code.

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That's what it was about. Does anybody seriously think that oil

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rich Scotland, fishing rich Scotland, renewable energy rich

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Scotland would not be welcomeded by the European Union with open arms?

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Have you asked them? The former Director General of the

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commission... Have you asked Barroso what he thinks? Scotland

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would inherit the treaty rights and obligations. ALL SPEAK AT ONCE

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Ruth Davidson? We know the SNP haven't asked the European Union

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because we have written to the European Commission and they said

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you have never asked them in 13 years for them to tell us what it

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is. The point this lady raises is about information that you have

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sought and received, about whether Scotland would be an accession

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state - this is important for everyone - it meens we'd have to be

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part of the Schengen agreement and use the euro. We'd have border

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controls. It affects what our tax would be if we were in competition

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with people in England. The chairman offal European Commission,

0:22:000:22:03

Jose Manuel Barroso, has said it's likely we'd have to be and you are

0:22:030:22:05

spending thousands keeping that information from the Scottish

0:22:050:22:09

people despite the fact that the independent Freedom of Information

0:22:090:22:13

commissioner has said that you should divulge it. The ministerial

0:22:130:22:16

code says that you shouldn't divulge information that's given by

0:22:160:22:20

legal representatives unless there is an exceptional case. Now, the

0:22:200:22:23

Freedom of Information commissioner, I'm telling you that it's in

0:22:230:22:26

Scotland's national interests for you to tell people is an

0:22:260:22:30

exceptional case and the reason you ought to tell people is because you

0:22:300:22:36

don't want the answer to come out. -- the reason you don't want to

0:22:360:22:42

tell people is you don't want the answer to come out. Can you answer

0:22:420:22:45

the question, do you think Scotland would be better off? We have the

0:22:450:22:49

safety and security of being part of a G7 nation, of being part of

0:22:490:22:56

NATO, the best military alliance in the world. We also have autonomy in

0:22:560:22:59

decision-making on education, health and justice. For those

0:22:590:23:02

reasons, I think we in Scotland have the best of both worlds. I

0:23:020:23:05

think if we look at some of the figures that Nicola's been banding

0:23:050:23:10

around in the last few days, she's been talking up a lot about

0:23:100:23:16

Scotland contributing 9.6% in taxes but receiving 9.3% in spending and

0:23:160:23:24

suggesting that creates a 2.7% overfill. It doesn't. 9.6% in taxes

0:23:240:23:31

is 53.1 billion, 9.3% in spending is 63.8 billion. Scotland's less in

0:23:310:23:35

debt than the rest of the UK. Scotland receives �10 billion a

0:23:350:23:40

year more than it's contributing. Not many people in Scotland can

0:23:400:23:44

trust Ruth Davidson's figures. A couple of weeks ago, she said only

0:23:440:23:50

10% in Scotland contributed anything. Even Mitt Romney only

0:23:500:23:55

managed to write off... ALL SPEAK AT ONCE

0:23:550:23:59

You spent time trying to knock the figure down...

0:23:590:24:05

Can I plead with you, panellists, please. Please, please, don't have

0:24:050:24:09

arguments that are arcane to most of the United Kingdom, they will be

0:24:090:24:19
0:24:190:24:19

understood in Glasgow. Try and stick... As someone who failed O-

0:24:190:24:23

level maths, I don't understand the figures but I'm an emotional Brit

0:24:230:24:27

and the emotion in this argument is going to be as important as any of

0:24:270:24:30

the figures these two are throwing at each other. I've got four kids.

0:24:300:24:35

Two live in England, two live in Scotland. I do not want them to be

0:24:350:24:39

foreigners to each other. Now, no matter what Nicola...

0:24:390:24:44

APPLAUSE No matter what Nicola says, that

0:24:440:24:50

will be the outcome of an independence. Mark? Skew I'm Welsh,

0:24:500:24:54

I live in London and my father was a Polish immigrant, so in that

0:24:540:24:58

sense I'm looking in and I start from taking the view this is a

0:24:580:25:01

matter for the Scottish people, it's a good thing that there's a

0:25:010:25:05

referendum. It's ground-breaking and we should applaud the fact that

0:25:050:25:11

16-year-olds will get a vote and I hope the rest of the UK do it. In

0:25:110:25:15

that sense, I ask myself this question - my union has 30,000

0:25:150:25:20

members in Scotland. Wa we are dog is, we are having a debate, a

0:25:200:25:24

really thorough debate about what we think the effects will be on

0:25:240:25:27

jobs, the economy, the type of society the people live in, and we

0:25:270:25:34

will come to a considered view. Now, my opinion is that it's two years

0:25:340:25:38

to referendum. What this debate deserves is something much, much

0:25:380:25:42

more fundamental than just is it the Union Jack or the Scottish flag,

0:25:420:25:46

are we foreigners or not, it's about this question - whether you

0:25:460:25:51

are independent or in the UK, if you have a party in power that

0:25:510:25:55

supports privatisation, is neoliberal, who is in Hock to the

0:25:550:25:59

bankers, rather than caring about the people, then frankly, both

0:25:590:26:03

options are dreadful. APPLAUSE If this debate was about

0:26:030:26:09

an equal society, a redistribution of wealth, nationalising our

0:26:090:26:12

resources, keeping free prescriptions and no tuition fees,

0:26:120:26:17

those are the issues that working people must demand are on the

0:26:170:26:25

agenda. In that sense, I just want to say this - I think it's shameful

0:26:250:26:30

that Labour have abandoned politics and told people that the question

0:26:300:26:34

of the union transcends everything else. When Alistair Darling does

0:26:340:26:37

that on national TV, if you take him at his word, he's actually

0:26:370:26:41

saying, better to be in the union run by the most right-wing

0:26:410:26:48

Government this country's had for decades and suffer. Margaret

0:26:480:26:53

Curran? Do you want to answer that? Mark's wrong, that's not what

0:26:530:26:59

Alistair Darling is saying at all. Believe me, you won't get a more

0:26:590:27:02

fervent dedicated campaigner than the thoir Government. I feel very

0:27:030:27:07

strongly and passionately about that, but I won't buy an argument

0:27:070:27:11

that says somehow the best way to get out of the Tories is somehow to

0:27:110:27:16

pull out of Britain because that's not the answer. This is a lifetime

0:27:160:27:21

decision and we might well live to regret it. Nicola Sturgeon agreed

0:27:210:27:26

with Mark Serwotka, "Hear, hear" she said when nationalising

0:27:260:27:31

resources. Everything's free for Scotland. This SNP hypocrisy has to

0:27:310:27:35

come to an end. They are hiding behind the political choices they

0:27:350:27:38

are making, there are very serious consequences about what they are

0:27:380:27:42

saying to Scotland and doing to Scotland at the moment. There is a

0:27:420:27:48

fantastic college around the corner, there's a waiting list for that,

0:27:490:27:53

10,000 kids. Huge unemployment, higher in Scotland than the rest of

0:27:530:27:59

the UK. So let's not let the SNP fool you. Leave aside what they are

0:27:590:28:03

doing in office. On the principle of independence. There is no

0:28:030:28:07

guarantee that the SNP would remain in Government. The way you talk,

0:28:070:28:12

you were suggesting you would give up on Labour overtaking in power in

0:28:120:28:16

an independent Scotland. Well then, let's leave the SNP's policies as

0:28:160:28:19

they are at the moment. We are talking about independence and

0:28:190:28:25

there'll be another election after that. It's about their vision of

0:28:250:28:27

independence and they're conning people. You have made the point.

0:28:270:28:31

The woman in yellow? For those on the panel who don't support full

0:28:310:28:34

independence, would you keep the devolution system as it is now or

0:28:340:28:39

would you support devo max? What is your view about that? I would

0:28:390:28:44

support devo max. Increase in powers. Alan, would you support

0:28:440:28:49

that? No, Dee vo minus would be my option.

0:28:490:28:55

I think that we have a Parliament with a huge panoply of powers and

0:28:550:28:59

an incredible array of powers. Some work, a lot of them don't. We are

0:28:590:29:03

about to get another load of pow, through the Scotland Act passed

0:29:030:29:08

this year coming into force in 2015 or 2016. The idea that we need to

0:29:080:29:12

add to those before we've even worked out how the next lot are

0:29:120:29:17

going to work is nuts. Let's have a serious, considered debate about

0:29:170:29:22

what we need to do, but for goodness' sake, let's not dash into

0:29:220:29:26

handing over a load of powers now. The woman at the back on the left?

0:29:260:29:31

If Scotland became independent, would there not be a better chance

0:29:310:29:36

Ngog on a nation on our own than what we have been putting up with

0:29:360:29:41

for the last 1900 centuries. Who is against it? We have had two or

0:29:410:29:43

three speakers for independence. Who is against the idea of

0:29:430:29:49

independence? You, Sir, with the spectacles on Who will pay off

0:29:490:29:52

Scotland's part of the national debt? Where would you get the money

0:29:520:29:56

from? You would have to add taxes. It's a figment of people's

0:29:560:30:01

imagination that independence is great. Oil is reputed to have run

0:30:010:30:07

out by about 2020, where are you going to get the money from? If you

0:30:070:30:12

are willing to pay �7.45 I think it is, the same as Norway, to buy a

0:30:120:30:22
0:30:220:30:23

pint of beer, then vote for And the man up there in the right

0:30:230:30:27

in the second row, you sir. I would like to ask Nicola Sturgeon

0:30:270:30:31

why the SNP have taken 70 years to tell us how they are going to make

0:30:310:30:35

independence work. They still haven't told us actually, but I

0:30:350:30:38

would like to ask the unionist contingent, have they considered

0:30:390:30:41

when independence comes, they are going to have a plan too and what

0:30:410:30:49

are those plans? Can I pile in? As I am not in the unionist contingent.

0:30:500:30:53

I think that what the questions have brought out and what you have

0:30:530:30:57

got to demand of these politicians here in Scotland is that the debate

0:30:570:31:01

becomes about what type of Scotland will it be? Will it be a strong

0:31:010:31:05

welfare State? Will it be more equality? Will it be one that

0:31:050:31:10

challenges the markets and not let markets dictate everything to us?

0:31:100:31:14

If I lived in Scotland and that debate showed me that independence

0:31:140:31:18

with a Government that was actually about equality and fairness, I

0:31:190:31:22

would vote for it. I don't understand your point. You are

0:31:220:31:25

saying a country can become independent only if it goes on

0:31:250:31:30

getting the kind of Government that you want. It It doesn't sound

0:31:300:31:36

democratic. It sounds very undemocratic? What I am saying

0:31:360:31:40

David, if I lived in Scotland, I would demand this debate became

0:31:400:31:44

about the issues that matter to people and the problem is with

0:31:440:31:49

Labour, I can't think of a worse time historically for the Scottish

0:31:490:31:53

Labour Party to march right wards, talk about giving up universal

0:31:530:31:57

benefits, talk about cuts when you should be speaking for hundreds of

0:31:570:32:03

thousands of people... We are. We are. No, we are. That's what we are

0:32:030:32:13
0:32:130:32:14

doing. I mean... Mark said the same about

0:32:140:32:17

Tony Blair's Government. There is no more important argument

0:32:170:32:21

than who we are. That's the decision we are going to make, who

0:32:210:32:26

we are, are we Brits, are we Scots and Brits? It is who we are. There

0:32:260:32:30

is no more important important argument than that.

0:32:300:32:36

What type of society? It is who we are? You are only getting half the

0:32:360:32:40

story from your London house. All you hear about is free

0:32:400:32:45

prescriptions in Scotland, you don't hear about the 2,500 fewer

0:32:450:32:50

nurse and midwives, you don't hear about the fact that people on

0:32:500:32:56

�150,000 are getting free drugs. This is the way the Government is

0:32:560:33:01

run in Scotland. Are you saying that that ins... I don't think

0:33:010:33:06

Nicola likes to take responsibility. When you keep going on about what

0:33:060:33:13

is going on now? What I am saying look at the areas where we can have

0:33:130:33:19

a debate. There is a debate that isn't to do with the constitution.

0:33:190:33:22

Yes, it is important. Yes, it is a fight that's going to go on for two

0:33:220:33:26

years. No, I don't take votes for granted in Scotland and I will go

0:33:260:33:29

door to door to promote the United Kingdom. There are other things

0:33:290:33:31

that people care about and things like the Health Service are

0:33:310:33:34

important now David and they are things we have to discuss now and

0:33:340:33:38

make choices. We are talking about the referendum

0:33:380:33:41

and whether Scotland would be better off. We have two years to

0:33:410:33:45

debate this and tonight we will move on to another question! We

0:33:450:33:49

have one from Joanna Tracey. Joanna Tracey. The UK Drug Policy

0:33:490:33:53

Commission wants to relax penalties for drug possession. How would this

0:33:530:33:59

affect society and drug use? This was the proposal this week for

0:33:590:34:04

relaxing penalties for easing up on the use of the law against the use

0:34:040:34:07

of drugs. How would it effect society and drug use? Nicola

0:34:070:34:12

Sturgeon are you in favour of what was announced by the Drug Policy

0:34:120:34:15

Commission? I am not in favour of relaxing penalties. I am in favour

0:34:150:34:20

in doing everything we can through education, through treatment, to

0:34:200:34:26

tackle drug use and get fewer people using drugs and those who

0:34:260:34:31

are, make sure they get treatment they need. Drug misuse is a problem

0:34:310:34:35

in Scotland as it is in every part of the UK. We do see drug use

0:34:350:34:38

figures amongst the general adult population coming down amongst

0:34:390:34:43

young people, it is at record low levels in Scotland. We see waiting

0:34:430:34:46

times for access to treatment shorter than they have been before

0:34:460:34:51

so we are making progress and what we need to do is continue with

0:34:510:34:54

those efforts rather than relax the law. That's my view and what I

0:34:540:34:57

think this Government and other governments in the UK should

0:34:570:35:00

continue to do. The UK Drug Policy Commission which

0:35:000:35:06

is a charity, a Government organisation, says that just say no

0:35:060:35:11

campaigns had little or no impact. Longer jail terms on suppliers have

0:35:110:35:19

no impact. Current prohibition is simplistic and all the rest of it?

0:35:190:35:25

I don't agree that saying you don't think the law should be relaxed

0:35:250:35:30

equates to advocating a just say no policy. I am not advocating that. I

0:35:300:35:33

think we should do as much as we can to educate young people about

0:35:330:35:38

the zaingers of drugs -- dangers of drugs when people develop drug

0:35:380:35:41

problems we have a responsibility to make sure they get the treatment

0:35:410:35:45

and rehabilitation they need. These are the things we need to focus on.

0:35:450:35:48

We are focusing on them in Scotland. There is more work still to do. It

0:35:480:35:53

is an area where we have had a fair degree of political consensus in

0:35:530:35:57

Scotland and I hope that can continue because it is too an

0:35:570:36:00

important issue to divide along party lines.

0:36:000:36:05

Do you agree the current position of prohibition of drugs is

0:36:050:36:12

simplistic, Alan Cochrane? probably is simplistic and I agree

0:36:120:36:16

with everything that that Nicola Sturgeon said and I would keep the

0:36:160:36:22

criminal sanctions in place. Especially in terms of alongside

0:36:220:36:28

the criminal sanctionsI would do and this is where Nicola is right,

0:36:280:36:32

there has got to be a different approach than dumping people on to

0:36:320:36:38

methadone. We have got to get more rehabilitation and treatment.

0:36:380:36:41

APPLAUSE The woman in black. Yes. Should

0:36:410:36:46

Scotland or the UK not consider the system that they use in Holland

0:36:460:36:50

which is they set-up clinics and encourage drug addicts to go there

0:36:500:36:56

and they are given heroine three times a day by a nurse and it is

0:36:560:37:00

prescribed and it removes the criminality element of it? Keep

0:37:000:37:03

that point for the moment. The person there.

0:37:030:37:08

I have got real issues with what you are saying, Alan. You would

0:37:080:37:18

keep the criminalisation of drugs. Who does it help to does a heroine

0:37:180:37:26

addict into prison? That person is taking part in criminal activity to

0:37:260:37:30

fund their heroine habit, they may have a family. Who does it help to

0:37:300:37:37

put them into prison? Why don't we have a better system for helping

0:37:370:37:41

cure their addiction? Russell Bran was in the houses of Parliament

0:37:410:37:45

ages ago talking about a system of healthcare that helped him with his

0:37:450:37:49

addiction. Why aren't we moving towards his care rather than

0:37:500:37:55

criminalisation? Ruth Davidson. First of all, I have

0:37:550:37:58

to say I think that particularly when it comes to dealers rather

0:37:580:38:02

than individual users there is a need for them to be removed from

0:38:020:38:04

the communities they blight in Scotland and the criminal sanctions

0:38:050:38:09

is the only way you can put people this prison to take them out of

0:38:090:38:14

those communities. I agree with Nicola and a lot of work was done

0:38:140:38:17

to bring forward a new national drugs policy for Scotland which the

0:38:170:38:23

SNP managed to implement and it centred very much on abstinence and

0:38:230:38:25

rehabilitation and it is about helping people who have identified

0:38:250:38:28

themselves as wanting to make those improvements in their life, trying

0:38:280:38:32

to find a way forward. Now, I am not saying that's working perfectly

0:38:320:38:35

on the grown, but I have to give credit where credit is due and

0:38:350:38:38

there has been a real will by the Scottish Government to make this

0:38:380:38:42

happen. We have supported them in the past and I hope Nicola Sturgeon

0:38:420:38:46

would acknowledge that. Do you want to see an end to the

0:38:460:38:50

war on cannabis as the Drug Policy Commission said? You are talking

0:38:500:38:55

about harder drugs, aren't you? am. Particularly in my area of

0:38:550:38:58

Glasgow that I represent, the harder drugs are the real real

0:38:580:39:02

problem drugs for us Arparticularly when we are talking about areas of

0:39:020:39:06

methadone and heroine. My issue is the number of people people in

0:39:060:39:11

Scotland who have been on methadone for decades and have never been put

0:39:110:39:17

on a reducing dose. Mental health adone is about weaning people off

0:39:170:39:24

the drug. For people to go back to have lives that aren't aotic that's

0:39:240:39:27

what -- chaotic, that's what we have to do and that the services

0:39:270:39:32

are there to support these people. The man in green.

0:39:320:39:35

You should get young people involved in health related

0:39:350:39:38

activities and I don't see how you can achieve this when you have

0:39:380:39:41

young people my age that want to use a football park and are having

0:39:410:39:51
0:39:510:39:53

to pay prices at �33 an hour for a game of football.

0:39:530:39:55

APPLAUSE You have to pay �33 an hour here in

0:39:550:39:58

Easterhouse? Yes. To play football? Yes, for an hour

0:39:580:40:03

in the park. Margaret Curran is my That's one of the points that we

0:40:030:40:07

have been making about, we like to think we have got everything

0:40:070:40:11

perfect in Scotland, but if you freeze the council tax, there is a

0:40:110:40:19

cost for those facilities, you can't provide those facilities.

0:40:190:40:25

It is a harsh reality of life. If you life in a world of finite

0:40:250:40:30

resources, it is about what you penalise. The principle of the

0:40:300:40:34

point that you are making is right. You need to have wider facilities

0:40:350:40:39

for young people. In this part of the world, of course, the community

0:40:390:40:43

is so strong and we see it significantly. Can I pick up the

0:40:430:40:49

point about cannabis? Ruth is about the serious drug use. We see people

0:40:490:40:55

making so much money out of the poverty of other people and the

0:40:550:40:58

health, and the exploitation of other people, it is unacceptable

0:40:580:41:02

and there has been a lot of action about trying to make sure that we

0:41:020:41:08

deal with people who are illegally dealing drugs and who make enormous

0:41:080:41:11

resources out of it. When I looked at that report and we have had a

0:41:110:41:15

debate about cannabis for some some years in Scotland and I remember

0:41:150:41:18

this argument coming forward in the Scottish Parliament where they were

0:41:180:41:22

saying we should soften the sanction ins cannabis and we

0:41:220:41:26

shouldn't be so hard because of the pattern around cannabis is

0:41:260:41:31

different to the pattern of use around heroine. We discovered that

0:41:320:41:35

cannabis used changed and it became a serious drug and now we know

0:41:350:41:39

there is a link between serious cannabis use and for example, very

0:41:390:41:43

significant mental health problems. We have to be careful that we don't

0:41:430:41:47

just say that you can wipe away problems - indeed, with alcohol as

0:41:470:41:50

well. You want to come back.

0:41:500:41:55

You are saying it is a hard fact of life that we should pay �33... You

0:41:550:42:01

see if that park is lying empty and people are going down to use it

0:42:010:42:11

then why are we not allowed access to it if no one is using that park?

0:42:110:42:14

APPLAUSE Yes. I just want to say that just

0:42:140:42:18

to show the other side. It seems to be hug the drug users ethos in here

0:42:180:42:22

just now. We have got people up there saying about the clinics

0:42:220:42:28

where you go and get get your methadone. Can anyone pop up? If

0:42:280:42:33

you have not used methadone before, could I go and say maybe I want

0:42:330:42:39

some? Who is going to pay for this? It might help in terms of Hel care

0:42:390:42:42

costs, -- healthcare costs, if you start pushing out it is OK, surely

0:42:420:42:47

you will promote more use of these drugs. In answer to the guy about

0:42:470:42:50

the football pitch, it is surprising there is not pieces of

0:42:500:42:53

land to play on and maybe it is the type of people that frequent these

0:42:530:43:00

areas that make them less desirable. OK. The woman in the second row

0:43:000:43:03

from the back. I worked in addiction for seven

0:43:030:43:09

years and the problem is that methadone is readily given out and

0:43:090:43:14

the whole programme was about, they would be put on to a methadone

0:43:140:43:19

programme and tested week in and week out to make sure they weren't

0:43:190:43:23

using illicit drugs. Because of the drugs in the social services, these

0:43:230:43:26

tests don't go as well as they should do and it is a case, it is

0:43:260:43:31

like a cattle market where they come in and go out. They give a

0:43:310:43:41

dirty urine, it is OK, we will put your Met drone up. -- Met methadone

0:43:410:43:45

up. They are not addregs the problem -- addregs the problem of

0:43:450:43:49

what the addiction is. Mark Serwotka? This was a serious

0:43:490:43:54

report and what it raised were questions we have to really soul

0:43:540:43:58

search over. It was making the point about alcohol deaths. Smoking

0:43:580:44:03

related deaths, about the focus on drugs which can mean people being

0:44:030:44:06

criminalised for personal possession of small amounts. I

0:44:060:44:10

think these are questions for people people to raise, not because

0:44:100:44:15

they are soft on drugs, but we have to ask ourselves how much resources

0:44:150:44:21

are being used? What are the effect on people. Drugs blight or

0:44:210:44:23

communities. Dealers should be criminalised and taken off our

0:44:230:44:30

streets, but if if somebody is caught with a tiny amount of

0:44:300:44:36

cannabis for personal use, should they be criminalised? That's a

0:44:360:44:41

debate we have to have. The report, to say all all drugs are the same,

0:44:410:44:45

when they are not, they have the same effect and we have got to be

0:44:450:44:50

tough on it. You end up losing the war on drugs. Scotland it more more

0:44:500:44:55

drug deaths than any other part of the UK. We have got to target what

0:44:550:44:59

we do. We have got to understand the victims who live in the

0:44:590:45:02

communities who are blighted by crime as addicts seek to feed their

0:45:020:45:06

habit, but we have got to say the dealers must be dealt with, but if

0:45:060:45:11

someone is addicted and in despair, putting them in jail for having

0:45:110:45:14

personal possession is not differentiating and we clearly

0:45:140:45:17

should differentiate and try and get to the heart of the problem and

0:45:170:45:27
0:45:270:45:30

Mark is right and so is Joanna, but the problem is, they go to jail and

0:45:300:45:34

get more drugs. That's the problem as much as anything else, there's

0:45:340:45:37

more drugs in jail than there is anywhere else. The woman in the

0:45:370:45:41

back row? I also work in social care and most of the young people I

0:45:410:45:44

work with use cannabis to self- medicate because they have been so

0:45:440:45:47

damaged, not only by their experiences, but unfortunately by

0:45:470:45:52

the care system itself which is in crisis. So I don't think we need a

0:45:520:45:57

war Onchans by, I think we need a war on cuts in social care.

0:45:570:46:04

APPLAUSE It leaves these young children

0:46:040:46:07

feeling like they have no other choice.

0:46:070:46:14

The man in the checked shirt on the left. So many checked shirts here.

0:46:140:46:18

You criminalise cannabis, but there are so many people I know already

0:46:180:46:28
0:46:280:46:29

use it and criminalising it doesn't make it work. It shows an increase

0:46:290:46:37

in mental illness. Most of my friends use it. That's not how it

0:46:370:46:42

is in my experience. So you would ease up Onchans by? Yes, because we

0:46:420:46:45

have bigger problems with harder drugs. I'm not a cannabis user but

0:46:450:46:52

I have got a lot of friends do use it recreationally. You in the front

0:46:520:46:57

row? Why are you laughing?! Question is, can you really trust

0:46:570:47:03

the Government with a drugs policy when they file their independent

0:47:030:47:09

advisers who have an opinion they don't agree with -- fire their

0:47:090:47:12

independent advisers. We have to ask why people continue to use

0:47:120:47:16

drugs and want to have them. Part of that is because of the economic

0:47:160:47:19

tragedy we have had for so long in Scotland. We need a Government now

0:47:190:47:22

that is going to create wealth instead of debt, teaching people

0:47:230:47:26

about a Financial Future that will inspire them to do more and then

0:47:260:47:31

you actually give them a dream and a hope that can take them away from

0:47:310:47:37

drugs. That is why decades of socialism has been destroyed in

0:47:370:47:40

Scotland. We need a Government that will help people to take charge of

0:47:400:47:45

their lives and make businesses work, create real employment that

0:47:450:47:52

is sustainable and it will bring Scotland up to be a tiger economy.

0:47:520:47:58

The man in the second row from the back, there? You, Sir? Is it not

0:47:580:48:03

the case if you did legalise drugs, it would be easier for the

0:48:030:48:07

Government to control it, for people to come to the clins, they

0:48:070:48:12

would set up, it would avoid the funding it does to crime, you could

0:48:120:48:15

maybe reduce prostitution because I imagine most of them are drug users,

0:48:150:48:20

so you could take that away, and the crime element. Surely that's

0:48:200:48:27

worth looking at. People are always going to take drugs, let's be real.

0:48:270:48:32

Time for one more question and then it's a thing that raised eyebrows

0:48:320:48:35

throughout the UK when it was announced because it was a

0:48:350:48:40

contentious point in this proposal for the referendum on independence.

0:48:400:48:45

Neil McUntire, please? Considering 16 and 17-year-olds are not

0:48:450:48:50

responsible enough to buy fireworks, why are we letting them have a vote

0:48:500:48:54

on independence? APPLAUSE

0:48:540:49:01

Is that so, that 16 and 17-year- olds can't buy fireworks? Yes, it's

0:49:010:49:04

18. Ruth Davidson? I don't believe that 16 and 17-year-olds should

0:49:050:49:08

have the vote at the upcoming referendum. The Scottish

0:49:080:49:11

Conservative Party already voting against it if Nicola brings it to

0:49:110:49:15

the Scottish Parliament. Why was it agreed by David Cameron? I think he

0:49:150:49:20

didn't want to set a new precedent by see saying that it could not

0:49:200:49:24

happen because what is the agreed precedent is that the legislature

0:49:240:49:27

that's setting a referendum is in control of the franchise. It's up

0:49:270:49:31

to Nicola and the SNP who've promised every 16 and 17-year-old

0:49:310:49:36

the vote to make that happen if she can. I was in a meeting with Alex

0:49:360:49:40

Salmond much earlier this year where he had special advisers and

0:49:410:49:44

civil servants saying how difficult that was going to be for many

0:49:440:49:48

people, so there may be thousands of 16 and 17-year-olds who've been

0:49:480:49:52

promised a vote and won't get it. I don't believe that is the right age

0:49:520:49:55

of consent. I believe the Electoral Commission's looked at this. They

0:49:550:49:59

looked at it in 2004, they thought the franchise was about right at 18.

0:49:590:50:02

The only major countries in the world that vote at 16 are Iran and

0:50:020:50:06

Brazil. For me, the franchise and the mandate that the SNP have for

0:50:070:50:09

this referendum is the mandate they won from the Scottish Parliamentry

0:50:090:50:12

elections, the people that vote in the referendum should be the people

0:50:120:50:18

that voted in the Scottish Parliamentry election. Do you agree

0:50:180:50:22

with that? I would like to know what the SNP have in particular to

0:50:220:50:26

offer to 16 and 17-year-olds and why they choose after the general

0:50:260:50:34

election to change it down. What is it 16 and 17-year-olds are going to

0:50:340:50:39

get. What are they going to get from you or what what are you going

0:50:390:50:43

to give to them? What will make a difference? I take a really simple

0:50:430:50:47

view of this and it's not a view based on party advantage. We have

0:50:470:50:51

seen polls recently. I don't agree with them, but we have seen polls

0:50:510:50:55

saying 16 and 17-year-olds wouldn't vote for independence and you see

0:50:550:50:59

polls saying the opposite. I would allow 16 and 17-year-olds to vote

0:50:590:51:03

not just in the referendum but in every election. Why, because if you

0:51:030:51:07

are able to get married, if you can have children, if you can register

0:51:070:51:13

to join the Army, then why on earth shouldn't you get a say over who

0:51:130:51:16

governs your country and why shouldn't you get a say over

0:51:160:51:19

whether your country would be independent or not. You have to get

0:51:190:51:24

your parents' permission to get married. Not in Scotland. Not in

0:51:240:51:31

Scotland. What about alcohol and buying it at the age of 21. If you

0:51:310:51:34

are not old enough to buy alcohol at 20, why are you old enough to

0:51:340:51:39

vote and get married? There's good reasons why you don't allow people

0:51:390:51:44

to buy and drink alcohol at 16 because their bodies are not yet...

0:51:440:51:49

You wanted to raise it to 21? was a good argument. If you look at

0:51:490:51:54

some of the communes I represent, alcohol and the antisocial

0:51:540:52:02

behaviour caused by alcohol was causing misery. Margaret Curran?

0:52:020:52:09

I could break this discussion up, slightly, I must say that, there

0:52:090:52:13

are many representations about this throughout Scotland and throughout

0:52:130:52:16

my constituency and I've been very impressed at the arguments put

0:52:160:52:19

forward by that particular group of young people and I've now come to

0:52:190:52:22

the view, I think 16 and 17-year- olds should vote. If you can join

0:52:220:52:25

the Army and represent your country there, then I think it's reasonable

0:52:250:52:31

for you to get some say in your country's future. I do agree with

0:52:310:52:35

that. On the referendum? Or in Parliamentary elections? Two big

0:52:350:52:39

questions, it's nonsense I think to say to young people in Scotland

0:52:390:52:42

that somehow you can vote in the referendum but not in the European

0:52:420:52:46

elections or the general elections, so it should be consistent. What

0:52:470:52:55

Nicola has to come the terms with, the SNP have been proposing this

0:52:550:53:01

for four or five years, I hope we are not going to get to a situation

0:53:010:53:04

in the referendum where some 16 and 17-year-olds will vote and some

0:53:040:53:07

won't because that would be absurd. Get your act together and make sure

0:53:070:53:11

it's fair and consistent. The man with the tie, yes? Could the

0:53:110:53:16

inclusion of 16 and 17-year-olds within the franchise for this

0:53:160:53:19

referendum lead to the politicalisation of Scottish

0:53:190:53:29
0:53:290:53:30

classrooms? Alan Cochrane? I don't think there's anything wrong with

0:53:300:53:34

kids in the classroom discussing politics. There's not enough

0:53:340:53:39

discussion of politics in our schools. There's far too many kids

0:53:390:53:43

don't understand and are not taught enough about the party's political

0:53:430:53:46

system. There are far too many kids in Scotland think Holyrood's the

0:53:460:53:56
0:53:560:53:59

only Parliament we've got, for goodness sake. (Inaudible)

0:53:590:54:02

Let's examine this logically. You can get married, join the Army, you

0:54:020:54:06

can have sex, but critically, you can pay tax. Now, I remember the

0:54:060:54:11

old slogan about taxation and representation and it seems to me

0:54:110:54:16

that if people can pay tax and do all those things, it's ludicrous to

0:54:160:54:20

say you cannot have any say in electing your representatives or in

0:54:200:54:30

the future of your country. You can pay tax at 14 or 12? You are not

0:54:300:54:34

going to. Of course you can, film stars, act tors. You said let's

0:54:340:54:39

look at it as a matter of principle. There are a lot of 16-year-olds

0:54:390:54:42

who're apprentices who pay tax, a lot of 16-year-olds who're

0:54:420:54:47

participating and paying their way, and to say to them that you can

0:54:470:54:53

have no say in your society, frankly I think that's not only

0:54:530:54:55

patronising but completely unfair. What I would say to people watching

0:54:550:54:59

this programme outside of Scotland is, the one thing we should say is

0:54:590:55:02

Scotland is leading the way on this question and we should have votes

0:55:020:55:06

for 16-year-olds throughout the whole of the UK in elections and in

0:55:060:55:10

referendums and I tell you what, if young people had a vote, maybe we

0:55:100:55:16

wouldn't have the Tories giving us record youth unemployment, slashing

0:55:160:55:19

public spending and treating young people in the most appalling way.

0:55:190:55:24

If they had a vote, maybe you would treat them with a bit more respect.

0:55:240:55:31

The man on the left? The woman on the left? We've had a few people

0:55:310:55:36

mention devo max and talking about the parameters of the referendum, I

0:55:360:55:39

do believe 16 and 17-year-olds should be allowed to vote as well,

0:55:390:55:42

but I also believe the referendum should appropriately reflect the

0:55:420:55:47

consultation that's going on. I've taken part in a number of

0:55:470:55:49

consultations on what should be involved in the referendum and

0:55:490:55:52

what's strongly coming through is that people would like to see a

0:55:520:55:56

third question on the ballot for Dee mow max and I think that

0:55:560:55:59

power's been taken away from us by Alex Salmond and David Cameron.

0:55:590:56:04

The woman there in yellow? I work with 16 and 17-year-olds and I want

0:56:040:56:07

to make the point that I think a lot of them are far more mature and

0:56:070:56:15

far more responsible than a lot of the adults that I know. A lot of 16

0:56:150:56:19

and 17-year-olds applauding. I don't know, perhaps they are all

0:56:190:56:24

18! The man in the white shirt? Three of your panellists have

0:56:240:56:27

mentioned the fact that you can register for the Army at 16, but

0:56:270:56:31

no-one's actually said you are not allowed to fight on frontline

0:56:310:56:35

service until you are 18. True, true. Who hasn't had a Hans to

0:56:350:56:40

speak? There are many who have. Have you spoken before, Sir?

0:56:400:56:45

Have a go? The idea that 16 and 17- year-olds are allowed to vote is

0:56:450:56:49

seen as the SNP trying to gerrymander the election in their

0:56:490:56:54

favour. I don't think it will matter. The Prime Minister allowed

0:56:540:56:57

it. There's too many anomalies with independence. The people are not

0:56:570:57:03

going to have it. No matter what they do, one question will kill it

0:57:030:57:08

stone dead if independence is defeated in two years' time, I

0:57:080:57:12

think Nicola knows that. You lost me on whether you are in favour of

0:57:120:57:15

16-year-olds having that say? don't have a particularly strong

0:57:150:57:21

view on that, I just wanted to say that. That was the idea. I can see

0:57:210:57:24

both sides. Thank you very much indeed. You bring us to the end of

0:57:240:57:28

our hour here. We are going to be in Slough next week. We have the

0:57:280:57:33

Business Secretary, Vince Cable, among others. The week after that,

0:57:330:57:36

just ahead of the American presidential election, we are going

0:57:360:57:44

to be in Central London. We have Jerry Springer, the Opera and David

0:57:440:57:47

Miliband, first appearance since you know what on the panel. So if

0:57:470:57:51

you want to come to either of those programmes, you have either got

0:57:510:57:55

Vince Cable or David Miliband or Jerry Springer, just apply on the

0:57:550:58:03

website. The address is on the screen. Or you can ring us. Thank

0:58:030:58:08

David Dimbleby presents Question Time from Easterhouse in Glasgow. Panellists include Deputy First Minister of Scotland Nicola Sturgeon MSP, leader of the Scottish Conservative Party Ruth Davidson MSP, Shadow Scottish Secretary Margaret Curran MP, Daily Telegraph Scottish Editor Alan Cochrane and Mark Serwotka, General Secretary of the PCS trade union.


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