Browse content similar to 12/05/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Welcome to you, whether you're watching or listening, | :00:00. | :00:21. | |
Conservative Secretary of State for Scotland, | :00:22. | :00:29. | |
and the party's only MP north of the border, David Mundell. | :00:30. | :00:32. | |
The Scottish Government's Minister for Europe, Humza Yousaf of the SNP. | :00:33. | :00:37. | |
Labour's leader in Scotland, Kezia Dugdale. | :00:38. | :00:41. | |
The former Deputy Leader of the SNP, now campaigning to leave | :00:42. | :00:45. | |
And the editor of MoneyWeek magazine, Merryn Somerset-Webb. | :00:46. | :01:05. | |
Before we take our first question, don't forget Facebook, Twitter, | :01:06. | :01:09. | |
or text 83981 to comment on what's said here. | :01:10. | :01:23. | |
Our first question from Lewis Keller, please? Does the recent | :01:24. | :01:31. | |
election result show that Scotland isn't as left-wing as we thought? | :01:32. | :01:35. | |
The recent election result last week in Scotland where the SNP came first | :01:36. | :01:40. | |
but the Conservatives moved into second place and Labour was | :01:41. | :01:45. | |
trounced. Hamza Yousaf? No, I don't think that's why the Conservatives | :01:46. | :01:50. | |
had the election that they did. First of all, it's worth mentioning | :01:51. | :01:56. | |
that the SNP very much as the left of centre party won the election not | :01:57. | :02:04. | |
marginally. Why do you call yourself left of centre party? That is | :02:05. | :02:07. | |
because we are. You are going to put taxes up? No. What is there left to | :02:08. | :02:14. | |
be done? Abolition of university fees, for example. Scrapping | :02:15. | :02:19. | |
prescription charges sothat people don't have to pay prescriptions, so | :02:20. | :02:23. | |
there is not a tax on the ill. For example, we didn't give a tax cut to | :02:24. | :02:29. | |
the highest earners. The question I want to address is, and I imagine | :02:30. | :02:33. | |
where you question comes from, why did the Conservative Party do bad. | :02:34. | :02:39. | |
The fact the Labour Party did so poorly wasn't because they weren't | :02:40. | :02:44. | |
left-wing enough, it was because people still felt betrayed | :02:45. | :02:48. | |
post-referendum. The Labour Party in their blind hatred of the SNP and of | :02:49. | :02:53. | |
independence joined shoulder-to-shoulder with a | :02:54. | :02:57. | |
Conservative Party that brought forward the most broughtal, | :02:58. | :03:00. | |
horrendous cuts to the disabled, most vulnerable in our society. For | :03:01. | :03:05. | |
that, they are absolutely punished last Thursday and will continue to | :03:06. | :03:10. | |
be. So the Conservative vote went up? Yes. So the Conservative vote | :03:11. | :03:15. | |
went up. Why are the Tories getting votes if what you say is true, they | :03:16. | :03:22. | |
didn't Tom to you, but they went to the Tories? Ruth Davidson ran an | :03:23. | :03:30. | |
effective campaign. -- didn't come to you. It's abundantly true that | :03:31. | :03:36. | |
it's more tocks tick become a Labour supporter in Scotland than it is to | :03:37. | :03:39. | |
become a Tory and I never thought I would see the day. David Mundell, | :03:40. | :03:43. | |
why do you think what happened happened? It's very clear that | :03:44. | :03:46. | |
people in Scotland wanted an effective on ziingts in the Scottish | :03:47. | :03:52. | |
Parliament. Labour had had nine years to demonstrate how they would | :03:53. | :03:56. | |
carry out the role of opposition and frankly they never laid a glove on | :03:57. | :04:05. | |
the SNP during that period. So it wasn't because they were | :04:06. | :04:09. | |
Conservative? They wanted to say no to having a second referendum. | :04:10. | :04:17. | |
APPLAUSE. And people who voted Conservative | :04:18. | :04:21. | |
here in the north-east, across Scotland, that's what they achieved. | :04:22. | :04:27. | |
Voting Conservative denied the SNP a majority, their number of MSPs is | :04:28. | :04:32. | |
down, the vote was down. 400,000 it was down from the general election | :04:33. | :04:36. | |
to the Scottish Parliament election. People voting Conservative got a | :04:37. | :04:41. | |
strong opposition, made sure the SNP didn't have a majority and hopefully | :04:42. | :04:45. | |
we have stopped that second referendum. OK. Lewis Keller, do you | :04:46. | :04:51. | |
think this is a see change in politics when you ask the question | :04:52. | :04:54. | |
about Scotland not being as left-wing? I wouldn't call it a see | :04:55. | :04:59. | |
change although there is a misconception about Scotland being a | :05:00. | :05:01. | |
lot more left-wing than the rest of the UK. That's what a lot of the | :05:02. | :05:05. | |
argument is about for Scottish independence. When you look at the | :05:06. | :05:09. | |
argument for the election campaign right there, it's about tax, the two | :05:10. | :05:14. | |
parties said they wouldn't increase tax, the Tories and SNP did the | :05:15. | :05:18. | |
best, and the SNP have been calling to get the tax powers for so long | :05:19. | :05:24. | |
and now they've got them they refuse to put taxes up and we have seen | :05:25. | :05:29. | |
cuts. On balance, it doesn't really look like we have a left from centre | :05:30. | :05:33. | |
consensus in Scotland, looks like we have a centre right opposition to a | :05:34. | :05:36. | |
centre right Government. APPLAUSE. | :05:37. | :05:44. | |
And are you a Labour man yourself? I didn't vote Labour this time. You | :05:45. | :05:48. | |
didn't vote Labour? No. Dare I ask how you did vote? I voted Green on | :05:49. | :05:59. | |
the regional list. Can I start by saying I take exception to Humza | :06:00. | :06:06. | |
saying my party is fuelled by hey tremendous. I disagreed with that | :06:07. | :06:11. | |
when you refused to ask the richest to pay for tax so we can protect | :06:12. | :06:17. | |
Public Services. What happened last week is that my | :06:18. | :06:21. | |
party were sorely defeated and the people of Scotland spoke and send us | :06:22. | :06:25. | |
a strong message that they wanted to make sure that they opposed a second | :06:26. | :06:29. | |
referendum and those arguments around the constitution came to the | :06:30. | :06:32. | |
foreagain. I thought that campaign on trying toving Mo on from the | :06:33. | :06:36. | |
referendum arguments of the past, I believed that Scotland wanted to | :06:37. | :06:39. | |
move forward, whether we are yes or no, we wanted to talk about our | :06:40. | :06:52. | |
future -- trying to move on. It wasn't your tax promises to raise | :06:53. | :06:58. | |
income tax that did this? I don't think so. I studied the polls, it | :06:59. | :07:02. | |
showed the Tory party was in trouble on the front-page. When you looked | :07:03. | :07:06. | |
at the second page, it was overwhelming support for Labour's | :07:07. | :07:10. | |
policies on tax. The idea of asking the richest 1% to pay more tax, we | :07:11. | :07:14. | |
could protect our public service. The message didn't really win people | :07:15. | :07:19. | |
over? I agree, that is to my great regret, but there were 500,000 | :07:20. | :07:24. | |
people who voted Labour, proud to campaign to stop the cuts to invest | :07:25. | :07:29. | |
in Scotland's future and it's new duty to speak up for them. I'm | :07:30. | :07:36. | |
interested by the tax thing. Does it make you wonder whether Labour in | :07:37. | :07:39. | |
the UK as a whole at the next general election ought to be | :07:40. | :07:44. | |
promising to raise tax, or from your rather harsh lesson here, that they | :07:45. | :07:47. | |
shouldn't? I don't accept our manifesto was rejected. I think the | :07:48. | :07:51. | |
arguments around tax have been well received around the country. I'll be | :07:52. | :07:56. | |
the first leader who doesn't rip up the manifesto immediately after an | :07:57. | :08:02. | |
election manifesto defeat. So you have a manifesto rejected. I do. | :08:03. | :08:08. | |
Look, it was a terrible election for my party. 100 years. 1910 or | :08:09. | :08:15. | |
something when Labour did as badly? I lost a third of my colleagues. It | :08:16. | :08:21. | |
wasn't a bad night for my party. The people of Scotland also sent Nicola | :08:22. | :08:24. | |
Sturgeon a message saying they wanted her to be First Minister, to | :08:25. | :08:28. | |
carry on, but she wasn't to have it her own way and Hamza, a little bit | :08:29. | :08:33. | |
of humility on your part would go a long way in that regard. | :08:34. | :08:36. | |
APPLAUSE. You, Sir, at the front, there? Why, | :08:37. | :08:44. | |
after the referendum, do the SNP threaten another referendum? Your | :08:45. | :08:47. | |
record in Government isn't particularly good. Why don't you | :08:48. | :08:52. | |
concentrate in proving the economic condition in Scotland? Especially in | :08:53. | :08:58. | |
Aberdeen with the oil and gas industry in 2 crisis it's in? There | :08:59. | :09:02. | |
are more jobs to be lost in this city and it's a very valuable | :09:03. | :09:09. | |
business to the Scottish Government. You think they aren't focussing on | :09:10. | :09:14. | |
the right things you mean, the SNP Frankly, it's a diversion from their | :09:15. | :09:17. | |
incompetence to govern, they want another reference Dutch. They | :09:18. | :09:21. | |
usually say it's not our fault, it's Westminster, don't blame me. | :09:22. | :09:29. | |
Just wait for the microphone, please? So We are waiting for the UK | :09:30. | :09:34. | |
Government to clear their energy bill. Yes. So we've got oil and gas | :09:35. | :09:41. | |
authority floating around there that we don't have any kind of clear | :09:42. | :09:44. | |
response from the UK Government on the crisis in the North Sea and also | :09:45. | :09:49. | |
the cancelling of the obligation to renewables. OK. So there isn't a | :09:50. | :09:56. | |
dove tailed UK policy on this. This gentleman here's blaming the SNP, | :09:57. | :10:00. | |
it's the UK Government. APPLAUSE. | :10:01. | :10:06. | |
Hold on a second, David. The woman at the back, second row from the | :10:07. | :10:11. | |
back, yes? Just talking about how left-wing Scotland is, I think it's | :10:12. | :10:16. | |
important not to forget that the Green Party increased their vote and | :10:17. | :10:19. | |
the number of seats they had in Scotland so the left-wing vote did | :10:20. | :10:23. | |
increase in that area. OK. APPLAUSE. | :10:24. | :10:34. | |
We do have social attitude studies going back for years which show us | :10:35. | :10:39. | |
that Scotland is Conservative with a small C as the rest of the country | :10:40. | :10:45. | |
when it comes to welfare, taxation et cetera, they respond in the same | :10:46. | :10:50. | |
way as the UK. To suggest that Scotland is more to the left than | :10:51. | :10:53. | |
the UK is generally wrong and if you look back, you know when the Tories | :10:54. | :10:59. | |
weren't so toxic in Scotland as there's the now not again. Even in | :11:00. | :11:03. | |
Thatcher's day when everyone pretends they could haven't hated | :11:04. | :11:08. | |
any more more but she was pulling 31, 28, 24%, numbers that weren't | :11:09. | :11:12. | |
that awsmt that is a big part of it, that Scotland is not as left-wing as | :11:13. | :11:16. | |
it likes to think it is which is a very strange dynamic for a political | :11:17. | :11:20. | |
environment. But the other reason I think that the Tories did so well in | :11:21. | :11:23. | |
this election is because Scotland really, really does need a strong | :11:24. | :11:27. | |
opposition. It needs one very, very badly. | :11:28. | :11:34. | |
APPLAUSE. Out occurred to me that if I were | :11:35. | :11:38. | |
Nicola Sturgeon, I would cast my second vote for the Tories because a | :11:39. | :11:42. | |
good Government has got to have a strong opposition and what we've | :11:43. | :11:45. | |
begun to see in Scotland over the last few years is bills going | :11:46. | :11:48. | |
through, laws coming through that are, whether you agree with their | :11:49. | :11:51. | |
premise or not, they're bad laws because they are not being watched | :11:52. | :11:57. | |
properly. Why do you think Kezia couldn't have done that job? I don't | :11:58. | :12:04. | |
know, but the fact is she didn't. It's the named person thing which | :12:05. | :12:08. | |
English viewers may not know much about. The opposition could have | :12:09. | :12:13. | |
been stopped in their tracks and said, this is rubbish, it won't | :12:14. | :12:17. | |
work. It would be hard to implement. As we don't have a revising chamber, | :12:18. | :12:21. | |
it needs a strong opposition. Scotland is more Conservative than | :12:22. | :12:27. | |
it thinks and Scotland understands how important it is in a democracy. | :12:28. | :12:32. | |
It wasn't Labour's message that was the problem, it was the fact we | :12:33. | :12:35. | |
didn't trust Labour politicians any more, we didn't feel they were being | :12:36. | :12:40. | |
honest. It was as if they just changed policy completely. What are | :12:41. | :12:45. | |
you thinking of? It's just they didn't seem to be as anti-austerity | :12:46. | :12:49. | |
as they were, because it was a popular view that they took on that | :12:50. | :12:54. | |
stance. I see. The man in the blue shirt? I think there's been a lot of | :12:55. | :12:59. | |
talk within the mainstream media about how much the Conservatives | :13:00. | :13:03. | |
have done so well. In reality, they've only got 22% of the vote. | :13:04. | :13:10. | |
Also, 11% of the electorate. There needs to be a lot more | :13:11. | :13:13. | |
congratulations for what the SNP have done in getting the three terms | :13:14. | :13:20. | |
again. So much massive bias from the BBC and I don't want to make too | :13:21. | :13:24. | |
much of an issue about that there, but there's not been spoken much | :13:25. | :13:28. | |
about how much the SNP have done. Obsessing about Labour and Tory do | :13:29. | :13:33. | |
you think? People have been obsessing about that and not | :13:34. | :13:37. | |
bothering about the SNP Maybe, yes, but there should be more | :13:38. | :13:41. | |
congratulations I think. Jim Sillars will give some applause then? The | :13:42. | :13:49. | |
election result was nearly 47% for the SNP and 22% for thetories. I | :13:50. | :13:54. | |
certainly say Ruth Davidson fought a very good election. She had the | :13:55. | :14:01. | |
no-vote bringing her to only 22%. If you analysed in the central belt the | :14:02. | :14:08. | |
SNP went up on their vote under the majorities time after time after | :14:09. | :14:12. | |
time. In fact, in Glasgow, the only seat that did not happen was because | :14:13. | :14:18. | |
Patrick Harvie who is left-wing for the Greens came second. What's | :14:19. | :14:23. | |
happened in Scotland this time is what the electoral system was | :14:24. | :14:27. | |
designed to make sure happen, that is a party doesn't get an overall | :14:28. | :14:33. | |
majority. Last time when we got an overall majority in the SNP, it was | :14:34. | :14:38. | |
a very unusual circumstance. We had the total collapse of the Liberals | :14:39. | :14:42. | |
and the slide beginning in the Labour Party. That has not happened | :14:43. | :14:47. | |
this time and in fact Scotland's gone back to the Scotland I knew | :14:48. | :14:55. | |
before devolution which is the borders were non-Labour, non-SNP, | :14:56. | :14:59. | |
the north-east tended to be Tory, the Highlands was a mixture and the | :15:00. | :15:03. | |
central belt from Dundee right across to north air Ayrshire was on | :15:04. | :15:09. | |
the left of Scottish politics. Now it's perfectly possible to be | :15:10. | :15:14. | |
someone like me to be socially Conservative but ideologically on | :15:15. | :15:17. | |
the left. I think that's the case with a great many people in | :15:18. | :15:23. | |
Scotland. Anybody who thinks that somehow or other we have had a great | :15:24. | :15:27. | |
Tory victory, go and look at the results. | :15:28. | :15:28. | |
APPLAUSE. . | :15:29. | :15:34. | |
I have looked at the results and half a million people voted | :15:35. | :15:41. | |
Conservative. More people voted Conservative in the Scottish | :15:42. | :15:44. | |
parliament elections than in the UK general election last year. In terms | :15:45. | :15:49. | |
of the SNP, the vote was down 400,000 votes. The SNP could not | :15:50. | :15:53. | |
turn out supporters to back Nicola Sturgeon and return a majority | :15:54. | :15:57. | |
government in the Scottish Parliament. And I think that was | :15:58. | :16:02. | |
partly due to the lack of excitement created in the campaign, but it was | :16:03. | :16:08. | |
also due to the fact that SNP government has not delivered on | :16:09. | :16:12. | |
domestic issues, and people do understand that. We have had caught | :16:13. | :16:17. | |
of an hour on this and we only have four of those in the programme. -- | :16:18. | :16:23. | |
quarter of an hour. What do you mean by socially Conservative? People | :16:24. | :16:32. | |
don't like a lot of change. We tend to believe that family life is a | :16:33. | :16:36. | |
very, very good thing. A number of people were very unhappy, I wasn't, | :16:37. | :16:42. | |
about same-sex marriage and things like that. So you will find, I am | :16:43. | :16:47. | |
talking about the central belt, which I know best, that people are, | :16:48. | :16:53. | |
in a sense, that way socially Conservative, don't like much | :16:54. | :16:57. | |
change, really don't like some of the liberalisation that is taking | :16:58. | :17:01. | |
place. But ideological E, and that is the key issue, they are on the | :17:02. | :17:08. | |
left wing. I am going to move on even though there are hands up. | :17:09. | :17:14. | |
We're in Walsall next week and Ipswich the following week. | :17:15. | :17:16. | |
If you want to join our audience, apply through our website, | :17:17. | :17:19. | |
A question from Christopher Cromer. Was Iain Duncan Smith right when he | :17:20. | :17:40. | |
stated that the European Union favours the haves over the have | :17:41. | :17:46. | |
nots? Iain Duncan Smith said that the EU favours the haves over the | :17:47. | :17:50. | |
have-nots. Jim Sillars. You were speaking, but why don't you start on | :17:51. | :17:59. | |
this one? I actually don't agree with that at all. I am for Brexit, | :18:00. | :18:04. | |
but I will not accuse the EU of being in favour of the haves in | :18:05. | :18:08. | |
stead of the have-nots. I think, in their pursuit of the project of the | :18:09. | :18:13. | |
United States of Europe, and using the eurozone as a major step towards | :18:14. | :18:21. | |
that, they have been very, very unfair to lots of people in Greece, | :18:22. | :18:26. | |
Portugal, Spain and Italy. APPLAUSE | :18:27. | :18:32. | |
And in that sense he may be right. But I don't think that was a | :18:33. | :18:38. | |
deliberate policy. I do not think they said, we will screw the Greek | :18:39. | :18:45. | |
folk. That is a consequence of them pursuing a particular project. Well, | :18:46. | :18:50. | |
that is Iain Duncan Smith taken care of! Merryn, do you think he was | :18:51. | :18:57. | |
right to make this point? Yes, I think there are lots of ways in | :18:58. | :19:00. | |
which the EU favours the haves over the have-nots. I hope it is not a | :19:01. | :19:05. | |
deliberate policy but it certainly favours large companies over very | :19:06. | :19:08. | |
small companies and this matters enormously when it comes to growth | :19:09. | :19:12. | |
and competition. It favours people who can manage vast amounts of | :19:13. | :19:15. | |
regulation, people who can spend a lot of money on lobbying. It favours | :19:16. | :19:20. | |
people who can make large systems work for them, and that tends to be | :19:21. | :19:24. | |
big companies, not small companies. Over the last couple of decades we | :19:25. | :19:28. | |
have seen the rise of the giant company and the huge amount of | :19:29. | :19:33. | |
company that the giant company has, and supranational organisations like | :19:34. | :19:38. | |
the EU are supportive of that. So in that sense, it is true. I would also | :19:39. | :19:42. | |
say that the euro has been a terrible thing for the have-nots. | :19:43. | :19:49. | |
The eurozone has destroyed economies of peripheral nations, and what is | :19:50. | :19:54. | |
now happening is something economists call internal | :19:55. | :19:56. | |
devaluation, which is that countries around the edges have to push down | :19:57. | :20:01. | |
wages and pushed down living standards until they become | :20:02. | :20:03. | |
competitive with richer countries. This is terrible. This is an | :20:04. | :20:08. | |
appalling way to treat countries in a currency union. Do you believe the | :20:09. | :20:14. | |
number of immigrants that come in under EU regulations has pushed down | :20:15. | :20:20. | |
wages for people already living in Britain? In the UK? Yes, if that | :20:21. | :20:25. | |
were Iain Duncan Smith was driving at? There is not enough evidence to | :20:26. | :20:32. | |
say absolutely but I think it probably is true to a degree. If you | :20:33. | :20:35. | |
have a large number of people coming into Labour market looking for work, | :20:36. | :20:39. | |
it is obvious on a basic supply and demand argument, that the price of | :20:40. | :20:44. | |
the things should come down. So it makes sense to think that has been | :20:45. | :20:47. | |
one of the things pushing down wages in the UK. One more thing on that is | :20:48. | :20:52. | |
that it is not just that. One thing that keeps wages low is our welfare | :20:53. | :20:57. | |
system, our tax credit system, so you can't blame migration completely | :20:58. | :21:02. | |
when we have a welfare setup that appears to be designed to keep wages | :21:03. | :21:06. | |
low at the same time. That was a competent in answer to a simple | :21:07. | :21:13. | |
question, sorry. I would have some concerns over Iain Duncan Smith | :21:14. | :21:16. | |
using social justice in general as an argument. | :21:17. | :21:17. | |
APPLAUSE It would imply there is something | :21:18. | :21:26. | |
going on in the background, given that in the last couple of weeks it | :21:27. | :21:30. | |
has been reported that he and Chris Grayling have been reported to | :21:31. | :21:33. | |
Police Scotland by the black Triangle campaign for covering up a | :21:34. | :21:38. | |
report into the coroner 's report into the prevention of future deaths | :21:39. | :21:43. | |
Jude to the work capability assessment, done three years before | :21:44. | :21:45. | |
the one that made headlines last year. So the idea that Iain Duncan | :21:46. | :21:51. | |
Smith can be making an argument based on social justice, when he has | :21:52. | :21:59. | |
managed to spin the disability benefit cuts as beneficial somehow | :22:00. | :22:03. | |
to disabled people so well, it concerns me that there is something | :22:04. | :22:06. | |
else going on there. APPLAUSE | :22:07. | :22:10. | |
The lady in the front row is right, Iain Duncan Smith has a cheek to be | :22:11. | :22:17. | |
trying to pretend to stand up for the have-nots. It takes the biscuit, | :22:18. | :22:22. | |
in that sense. I think there is a particularly socialist case for why | :22:23. | :22:26. | |
we should stay in the European Union. It has brought a lot of | :22:27. | :22:29. | |
workers rights, protections and freedoms. We do not compete with | :22:30. | :22:34. | |
other European nations on equality and the terms and conditions of | :22:35. | :22:38. | |
jobs. It is a good way to grow the economy. But much of this debate so | :22:39. | :22:43. | |
far has been very rational, focused on economic arguments, which are | :22:44. | :22:47. | |
given is I am proud to make. But I think we should revisit the idea of | :22:48. | :22:50. | |
Europe and be more emotional about why being part of the European Union | :22:51. | :22:56. | |
is a good thing. We share this union with 27 nations around the idea of | :22:57. | :23:00. | |
cooperating, we share the freedom and prosperity that comes from that | :23:01. | :23:04. | |
union. We should protect it and I intend to campaign with every sinew | :23:05. | :23:06. | |
to do that. APPLAUSE | :23:07. | :23:09. | |
Iain Duncan Smith says that EU migration causes downward pressure | :23:10. | :23:18. | |
on wages. Do you believe that? I don't accept that. I think it fuels | :23:19. | :23:23. | |
the negative sentiment that has dominated this referendum campaign | :23:24. | :23:27. | |
too much, like the dog whistles on immigration we keep hearing. Do you | :23:28. | :23:32. | |
think he is right? I don't agree with him on this. He is passionately | :23:33. | :23:37. | |
in favour of leaving the EU and will play a significant part in the | :23:38. | :23:41. | |
campaign. But what the EU delivers for Scotland and Britain is jobs. It | :23:42. | :23:51. | |
delivers work. 330,000 people here in Scotland have jobs partially | :23:52. | :23:54. | |
dependent on membership of the EU. And it is those people that we need | :23:55. | :23:57. | |
to speak up for during this campaign. The EU is a positive for | :23:58. | :24:06. | |
Scotland. Iain Duncan Smith, like so many of the people that are in the | :24:07. | :24:10. | |
vote to leave campaign has not set out for us exactly what it would | :24:11. | :24:18. | |
mean to be out with the EU. In fact, different people in the campaign set | :24:19. | :24:22. | |
out very different visions. We cannot take that leap in the dark | :24:23. | :24:26. | |
unless we know what it is that is being proposed. I will go to the | :24:27. | :24:35. | |
audience. Where shall we go? The man over there on the left. You were | :24:36. | :24:42. | |
talking about how the EU is more beneficial for big companies over | :24:43. | :24:49. | |
small companies. My argument against that is that if we were outside the | :24:50. | :24:54. | |
EU, like Norway, we would still have to conform to the regulations and | :24:55. | :24:57. | |
guidelines that go with making goods, for example. The Norwegian | :24:58. | :25:03. | |
fish market still have to conform to EU guidelines. That will damage | :25:04. | :25:08. | |
small British companies over bigger companies because of the costs of | :25:09. | :25:12. | |
conforming to those guidelines. Wouldn't fishermen do better | :25:13. | :25:20. | |
outside? The fishing quotas is just a travesty. I think they are | :25:21. | :25:25. | |
necessary, but that is neither here nor there. The man in the checked | :25:26. | :25:30. | |
shirt. What is going to happen is exactly what Merryn was saying. | :25:31. | :25:33. | |
Barack Obama came over a few weeks ago and said what is going to happen | :25:34. | :25:38. | |
to Europe. That is that there is going to be this trade organisation | :25:39. | :25:44. | |
treaty which will come in, and that is exactly what it does. It is going | :25:45. | :25:52. | |
to allow corporate, basically management of Europe, and you will | :25:53. | :25:57. | |
get the same system. It is an American introduced system whereby | :25:58. | :26:01. | |
they basically run the show. What is your plan, to leave or stay? Leaves, | :26:02. | :26:04. | |
absolutely. APPLAUSE | :26:05. | :26:10. | |
How would you deal with the United States? Blow them up, or something. | :26:11. | :26:21. | |
Not entirely constructive! The woman in pink at the back. The issue with | :26:22. | :26:28. | |
this campaign is that you get one argument and there is a way is a | :26:29. | :26:31. | |
counterargument. That is what makes it so difficult to make these | :26:32. | :26:35. | |
decisions. For example, we were talking about wages going down. That | :26:36. | :26:41. | |
is true but the counterargument is that it becomes more competitive, | :26:42. | :26:45. | |
there are more people who are providing services. And for the | :26:46. | :26:48. | |
consumer it becomes more competitive. My personal view, it is | :26:49. | :26:53. | |
a storm in a teacup. It does not make much difference whether we stay | :26:54. | :26:58. | |
in all we leave. There is an art and four and against. You make a | :26:59. | :27:01. | |
decision, we go for it, and it will be fine either way. So will you toss | :27:02. | :27:09. | |
a coin to decide? Why not? What are you going to do? In general, I think | :27:10. | :27:15. | |
it is better to be in something than out, so I would vote to stay in. | :27:16. | :27:23. | |
You, sir. I have been a fisherman for 30 years and I hardly think | :27:24. | :27:26. | |
anyone on the panel has enough time in the day make to me change my mind | :27:27. | :27:31. | |
to vote to stay in the union when we have been discriminated for the last | :27:32. | :27:33. | |
40 years. APPLAUSE | :27:34. | :27:39. | |
And if the UK voted out, what with the consequence be? We would be in | :27:40. | :27:47. | |
power of our own destiny, making choices to benefit Scotland or the | :27:48. | :27:53. | |
United Kingdom. In 2002, there were 525 white fish boats in Scotland. | :27:54. | :27:59. | |
Today, there are 125, and yet the European Union give grants to Spain | :28:00. | :28:04. | |
to build a fleet that in 2022 will be able to fish within 50 yards of | :28:05. | :28:09. | |
the beach outside that front door. You want to stay in, despite that? I | :28:10. | :28:18. | |
will address that. I have plenty of problems and issues with the Common | :28:19. | :28:20. | |
Fisheries Policy, just as much as you. But let me say this. The | :28:21. | :28:25. | |
problem with the UK Government negotiating on our behalf, if they | :28:26. | :28:30. | |
are not negotiating well, my suggestion would be to get someone | :28:31. | :28:33. | |
else to do it and change the Prime Minister and the government as | :28:34. | :28:38. | |
opposed to coming out of Europe. But the SNP want to stay in Europe. | :28:39. | :28:41. | |
Successive UK governments have done this. I will quote the exact words. | :28:42. | :28:51. | |
Scottish fishing, by the UK Government, was seen as expendable. | :28:52. | :28:55. | |
That is utterly atrocious. If you did not have the European Union and | :28:56. | :28:59. | |
every country was going alone, yes, within quotas, but managing their | :29:00. | :29:03. | |
own quotas, I am not convinced you would have a fishing industry to | :29:04. | :29:07. | |
pass on to the next generation. Let me try to address the issue... Hang | :29:08. | :29:14. | |
on, do you agree? No, I don't agree. Even in an independent Scotland, you | :29:15. | :29:18. | |
would maybe have 30 representatives of Europe in a parliament of 170, so | :29:19. | :29:22. | |
how would you get your view across? APPLAUSE | :29:23. | :29:28. | |
We are in Aberdeen, we have a fishing port, stick with that point. | :29:29. | :29:36. | |
One of the advantages of Brexit is that when the UK comes out, | :29:37. | :29:42. | |
responsibility for fisheries and agriculture goes to the parliament | :29:43. | :29:48. | |
at Holyrood. That means for the first time since we joined the EU, | :29:49. | :29:53. | |
we would have our own fisheries policy in relation to our own | :29:54. | :29:55. | |
resources and our own fleet. I want to come on to Christopher's | :29:56. | :30:09. | |
original question. The lady in the front said as well, this is the man, | :30:10. | :30:12. | |
Iain Duncan Smith, the ark ticket of the disability cuts, the man | :30:13. | :30:16. | |
responsible for the proliferation of food banks, to think he's suddenly | :30:17. | :30:23. | |
lecturing us on the haves and have notes is like Trump lectures us on | :30:24. | :30:29. | |
xenophobia. Although I'm from the remain campaign and will continue to | :30:30. | :30:34. | |
advocate for that, the campaign has been utterly depressing. The tone of | :30:35. | :30:37. | |
the campaign has been awful. On both sides? Yes, from both sides but | :30:38. | :30:41. | |
particularly actually from the Prime Minister and George Osborne who | :30:42. | :30:47. | |
advocate for remain, it's been hyperboll I believe, apocalyptic | :30:48. | :30:50. | |
nonsense, it's the resurrection of project fear. It will drive more | :30:51. | :30:55. | |
people towards the exit door and it's an insult frankly to every | :30:56. | :31:01. | |
voter in the country. What have you and the SNP doing, instead of run | :31:02. | :31:04. | |
ago positive campaign you are always lecturing us about, you have started | :31:05. | :31:09. | |
to talk about another referendum on Scottish independence in the context | :31:10. | :31:15. | |
of the EU. This is a referendum about whether Scotland remains in | :31:16. | :31:18. | |
the EU, it's not another referendum on whether Scotland leaves the UK, | :31:19. | :31:22. | |
and that's all you seem to want to talk about. So if there is, if | :31:23. | :31:26. | |
you've got a positive case and I believe there is a very strong | :31:27. | :31:30. | |
positive case to make for Scotland staying in the EU, start talking | :31:31. | :31:35. | |
about it and stop talking about another independence referendum. | :31:36. | :31:41. | |
APPLAUSE. Let me come back briefly. Since | :31:42. | :31:45. | |
David started talking on this programme, he's mentioned | :31:46. | :31:48. | |
independence four times, I've mentioned it see row times. This is | :31:49. | :31:56. | |
a man, for somebody who says he hates independence, he talks an | :31:57. | :32:01. | |
awful lot about it. I've never said I hated independence. I said I don't | :32:02. | :32:06. | |
agree... You said stop talking about it and all you've done is talk about | :32:07. | :32:15. | |
it. There is going to be a campaign started for independence. People | :32:16. | :32:18. | |
watching this from outside Scotland will hear that the remain campaign | :32:19. | :32:25. | |
is bitterly divided. Sounds crazy. You are saying they are screwing it | :32:26. | :32:29. | |
up? I want the SNP to come forward and campaign positively for Scotland | :32:30. | :32:34. | |
to remain in the EU. They say that's what they want, I don't understand | :32:35. | :32:38. | |
why they can't just get on and do it. Merryn? This is fascinating, | :32:39. | :32:44. | |
takings back to the Scottish referendum and the inability of both | :32:45. | :32:49. | |
sides to be able to work together. We saw nit the No Campaign where | :32:50. | :32:54. | |
they weren't able to articulate a common vision for the future because | :32:55. | :32:57. | |
they couldn't agree what it should be. We are seeing it with the | :32:58. | :33:02. | |
European referendum with people on the remain and leave side, they | :33:03. | :33:07. | |
can't articulate a proper vision for their futures because they don't | :33:08. | :33:09. | |
agree on what it is that they want the EEving U to be so they are | :33:10. | :33:14. | |
unable to come up with a vision, just a lot of apocalyptic visions | :33:15. | :33:20. | |
which are generally nonsense. So do you agree with the woman at the back | :33:21. | :33:25. | |
who said that in the end it's so finely balanced? I absolutely do, | :33:26. | :33:29. | |
from an economic point of view I would say it doesn't make any | :33:30. | :33:32. | |
difference either way, absolutely not a jot. So unemployment will | :33:33. | :33:44. | |
rise? All the forecasts from the OECD, the Bank of England and the | :33:45. | :33:51. | |
IMF, they go back 20 years. You will remember what economists were | :33:52. | :33:56. | |
forecasting 20 years ago, whoops, they weren't forecasting deflation, | :33:57. | :34:01. | |
a financial crisis or interest rates being so low for so many years. So | :34:02. | :34:06. | |
forecasting beyond a couple of years is nonsensical. A small bit of | :34:07. | :34:13. | |
volatility for a couple of years. Let's hear from one or two people, | :34:14. | :34:17. | |
then you Sir in the middle? Two points. First point being, why | :34:18. | :34:27. | |
should countries without a fishing fleet tell us thousand do our | :34:28. | :34:32. | |
fishing? With weeks to go now, when's project fear going to kick | :34:33. | :34:36. | |
in? Project fear which you think has not kicked in? Not yet. But you | :34:37. | :34:43. | |
think it will come do you? Yes. OK. The woman on the gangway? Are we | :34:44. | :34:51. | |
such a small country that we can't go and trade with other countries, | :34:52. | :34:56. | |
that we can only trade with Europe, that we can't trade with the rest of | :34:57. | :35:02. | |
the world? Is everybody going to up sticks and leave if we decide to | :35:03. | :35:05. | |
leave Europe? I don't think so. APPLAUSE. | :35:06. | :35:11. | |
You, Sir? You with the pink tie on? I have a concern that if in fact we | :35:12. | :35:16. | |
vote to leave the European Union, Britain leaves the European Union, | :35:17. | :35:22. | |
it could lead to the collapse of the European Union itself. A number of | :35:23. | :35:25. | |
folk have said this would be the case. Nigel Lawson said when asked | :35:26. | :35:30. | |
about this, that it would be no bad thing. I think that would be | :35:31. | :35:35. | |
absolutely disastrous if that were the effect. The other thing is, if | :35:36. | :35:41. | |
in fact that happened or we voted to leave the European Union, and then | :35:42. | :35:46. | |
Scotland had a vote for independence again and the European Union | :35:47. | :35:50. | |
collapsed and Scotland all on its own, where does that leave Scotland | :35:51. | :35:54. | |
then? OK. APPLAUSE. | :35:55. | :35:58. | |
Hands are still up, but we should move on because we've got a lot more | :35:59. | :36:04. | |
questions. Let's just take a break and turn to a completely different | :36:05. | :36:09. | |
point. Zoe Pearson makes it. Zoe, please? Was the BBC right to | :36:10. | :36:14. | |
broadcast the Queen's comment about the Chinese, or is the Queen | :36:15. | :36:17. | |
entitled to have a private conversation? The Queen overheard at | :36:18. | :36:23. | |
the garden party saying the Chinese were very rude to the British | :36:24. | :36:26. | |
Ambassador. Should that have been broadcast? We don't need to spend a | :36:27. | :36:35. | |
long time on this. David Mundell. It came about because Buckingham Palace | :36:36. | :36:39. | |
released a tape on which that material was present. So it was | :36:40. | :36:43. | |
deliberate you mean? I very much doubt that. But I think the Queen is | :36:44. | :36:48. | |
entitled to have a private conversation, we are all entitled to | :36:49. | :36:53. | |
have private conversations. I don't think that it was news worthy in the | :36:54. | :37:01. | |
way that that it got the level of attention and therefore I wouldn't | :37:02. | :37:06. | |
have seen it as a headline news item or a lead item on BBC Online. I | :37:07. | :37:13. | |
think the Queen is entitled to her views and opinions and they should | :37:14. | :37:19. | |
be kept private. Jim Sillars? I think they were quite right to | :37:20. | :37:23. | |
broadcast it. Why shouldn't we know what the Queen thinks about various | :37:24. | :37:31. | |
subjects? Do you think she thinks for Brexit as was reported by the | :37:32. | :37:34. | |
Sun a while back, is that why you say this? No, that's not the reason | :37:35. | :37:42. | |
at all. Why should we say - well I'm a Republican, so just registering | :37:43. | :37:47. | |
that with you. I don't see why we shouldn't know what the head of | :37:48. | :37:53. | |
state says on a number of occasions. If she thought the Chinese or the | :37:54. | :38:01. | |
organisers from China were very rude, I find it quite interesting to | :38:02. | :38:05. | |
know that and it's also important to transmit to the Chinese as well. We | :38:06. | :38:11. | |
are in a diplomatic circle. If you come to the United Kingdom, and if | :38:12. | :38:20. | |
you remember the conduct of some of the Chinese heavies during the | :38:21. | :38:27. | |
Chinese President's official visit, was actually quite outrageous from | :38:28. | :38:34. | |
our British point of view. They stopped people from demonstrating | :38:35. | :38:43. | |
for example. When we go to China, we don't tell you to overturn your | :38:44. | :38:46. | |
Government, for example. Sometimes it's very good for the diplomatic | :38:47. | :38:50. | |
tongue to actually make a mistake and let the public hear. | :38:51. | :38:52. | |
OK. APPLAUSE. | :38:53. | :38:56. | |
What do you think? I think it was probably broadcast basically because | :38:57. | :39:05. | |
the Queen very rarely makes faux pas like that. I don't think however it | :39:06. | :39:09. | |
really was headline news. Kezia Dugdale? Imagine what Prince | :39:10. | :39:14. | |
Philip said? ! LAUGHTER. | :39:15. | :39:21. | |
Look, the Queen is 90, she's had 60 years doing the job that she does, | :39:22. | :39:29. | |
immaculate public service, she's entitled to say exactly what she | :39:30. | :39:33. | |
likes. It was probably news and we were probably right to hear it and I | :39:34. | :39:39. | |
say good on her. Hamza? You are a Republican or Monarchist? It had to | :39:40. | :39:47. | |
be a surprise. For the purpose of independence, we said we'd keep the | :39:48. | :39:50. | |
Queen as the head of state. What I would say about Kezia, I would | :39:51. | :39:55. | |
agree. In some respects, we've all got the older relative that probably | :39:56. | :39:59. | |
says things they shouldn't. I don't think the Queen should be punished | :40:00. | :40:07. | |
or we should be too harsh on her for saying that. If you aren't willing | :40:08. | :40:13. | |
to say something in public, then saying it in private around cameras | :40:14. | :40:17. | |
is probably not a wise idea. People get quite annoyed if people say one | :40:18. | :40:21. | |
thing in public and say a very, very different thing in private. Be | :40:22. | :40:23. | |
prepared to say it in public. The Prime Minister's been caught out on | :40:24. | :40:27. | |
that making remarks about countries that are fantastically corrupt but | :40:28. | :40:32. | |
forgetting that sometimes their own country is fantastically corrupt. | :40:33. | :40:35. | |
APPLAUSE. Merryn? Oh, the Queen. What do you | :40:36. | :40:43. | |
mean "oh, the Queen". I'm not sure I wanted to know what she thought | :40:44. | :40:48. | |
about anything. Are you a Republican? I don't mind either way. | :40:49. | :40:55. | |
I like having a monarchy. I love that she said that. I loved hearing | :40:56. | :41:04. | |
her talk properly and now when I see her shake hands at garden parties I | :41:05. | :41:11. | |
know she's talking gossip. I'm desperate to lip read. I don't know | :41:12. | :41:17. | |
whether any of you caught this but a famous man who lived a long time in | :41:18. | :41:21. | |
Hong Kong who was on Newsnight last night, he said, what people don't | :41:22. | :41:26. | |
understand about this is, when you speak Chinese, it's a very rude | :41:27. | :41:30. | |
language compared with English and he gave the example that when he | :41:31. | :41:35. | |
leaves in the hotel a message for an early morning call, instead of | :41:36. | :41:39. | |
saying hello good morning it's your morning call, you pick up the | :41:40. | :41:45. | |
telephone and they said "get out! ". You should try coming to Glasgow! | :41:46. | :41:52. | |
OK. I want to take this question from Jason Bapty, please? | :41:53. | :41:59. | |
Is the named person scheme unacceptable intrusion by the state | :42:00. | :42:01. | |
into family life? I think this is a fascinating | :42:02. | :42:04. | |
topic... APPLAUSE. | :42:05. | :42:10. | |
It's a... For English and Welsh viewers, I should explain that this | :42:11. | :42:17. | |
is an SNP scheme that by law every family will have to name somebody | :42:18. | :42:22. | |
outside the family to look after, offer advice or support when asked, | :42:23. | :42:29. | |
about every child. So you have a child, outside Scotland people don't | :42:30. | :42:33. | |
know this, so you have a child and godparents and all of that, but you | :42:34. | :42:37. | |
have to name a schoolteacher or somebody who acts as a... No, you | :42:38. | :42:41. | |
don't name them. You don't even name them? The state gives you one. | :42:42. | :42:47. | |
I didn't know that. Stranger and stranger. | :42:48. | :42:55. | |
APPLAUSE. And the named person, I quote from | :42:56. | :42:58. | |
the Scottish Government website "only offers advice or support when | :42:59. | :43:03. | |
asked or when well-being needs are identified". What's this about? | :43:04. | :43:10. | |
Well, I mean, you're not right actually in some of what you said. | :43:11. | :43:17. | |
The advice is only provided when or if a child or indeed a parent needs | :43:18. | :43:21. | |
it for the well-being of the child. This is not a state guardianship | :43:22. | :43:30. | |
scheme. Some of the high -ly and misconceptions are not only vacuous | :43:31. | :43:38. | |
but put children's lives in danger. I had two foster nephews until | :43:39. | :43:42. | |
recently. The children were passed from pillar to post, to pillar to | :43:43. | :43:47. | |
post. The named person's scheme already exists in many parts of the | :43:48. | :43:52. | |
country and has run successfully across many parts of the country. | :43:53. | :44:01. | |
The Labour Party supported us because of the elections... That's | :44:02. | :44:05. | |
not true. We had position and support of other left of centre | :44:06. | :44:09. | |
parties like the Green Party on this. It's a simple scheme. If a | :44:10. | :44:14. | |
child feels they need to talk to somebody, if a parent feels they | :44:15. | :44:18. | |
need to talk to somebody, instead of speaking to five or ten different | :44:19. | :44:21. | |
agencies about the issues they are having, they have one point of | :44:22. | :44:30. | |
contact. Hold on a second... So in effect you are saying that | :44:31. | :44:36. | |
every child born in Scotland will have until presumably they are 18 or | :44:37. | :44:40. | |
whatever a social worker attached to them? | :44:41. | :44:45. | |
It could be a teacher, health adviser. A social worker? Somebody | :44:46. | :44:54. | |
outside the family who is supposed to oversee their well-being. I think | :44:55. | :44:59. | |
it is a state Guardian, and I think the SNP described it as a head | :45:00. | :45:03. | |
gardener, which seemed extraordinary. We have lots of | :45:04. | :45:07. | |
gardeners and lots of plants but we need a head gardener to oversee the | :45:08. | :45:13. | |
well-being. This is distressing for parents, when you think, who is in | :45:14. | :45:19. | |
charge of children in my house. It is not in charge. Anybody who is a | :45:20. | :45:24. | |
good parent, and the vast majority are exceptional, those who come from | :45:25. | :45:28. | |
a loving household will not... So why do I have to have a named person | :45:29. | :45:34. | |
if I am a good parent? You might be a good parent but... I was thinking | :45:35. | :45:39. | |
about this the other day when I was driving in Italy. I got stopped and | :45:40. | :45:44. | |
thought I had done something wrong. It was purely random because in lots | :45:45. | :45:47. | |
of countries it is OK to stop a person even if they have done | :45:48. | :45:52. | |
nothing. In the UK, if you stop a car, they have to have shown some | :45:53. | :45:55. | |
sign of doing something wrong, you need Ariz and to stop them. The | :45:56. | :46:00. | |
named person's policy, in my view, goes on to the Italian side where | :46:01. | :46:04. | |
there can be a random stop, an assumption that you might have done | :46:05. | :46:07. | |
something when there is no sign that you have. There are people watching | :46:08. | :46:12. | |
you to make sure that you are supervising your child. Nobody is | :46:13. | :46:22. | |
watching you. Hang on. We will explore this around the panel. They | :46:23. | :46:26. | |
are not looking at whether your child eats or drinks... Weight. The | :46:27. | :46:32. | |
woman there. I just don't understand. When we have a shortage | :46:33. | :46:38. | |
in teachers in this country, so many people exporting the trade they | :46:39. | :46:42. | |
learn here to countries like Dubai and Singapore, how are you going to | :46:43. | :46:47. | |
be able to fund this? We have not got the infrastructure sorted out, | :46:48. | :46:53. | |
so when you start putting more power in the hands of teachers, you are | :46:54. | :46:57. | |
actually reducing the role of social workers. I can see quite quickly | :46:58. | :47:01. | |
that what will happen is we are going to reduce how much help we get | :47:02. | :47:06. | |
from the welfare state in Scotland at the expense of Scottish children. | :47:07. | :47:11. | |
That is a problem. We need to look at that before we start looking at | :47:12. | :47:19. | |
finding Guardian ships. Are you in favour in principle of a named | :47:20. | :47:23. | |
person to protect a child's interests? The problem with the idea | :47:24. | :47:27. | |
is that when you start saying that every child needs looking after, you | :47:28. | :47:32. | |
are reducing the role of the parent or the foster parent, or these other | :47:33. | :47:35. | |
people. APPLAUSE | :47:36. | :47:40. | |
When you reduce their role, what you are doing is making it impossible to | :47:41. | :47:48. | |
say where the fault lies. You are creating more red tape, meaning more | :47:49. | :47:52. | |
children will fall between the cracks, especially if you are | :47:53. | :47:56. | |
looking at rural communities, like the Highlands. If you have to travel | :47:57. | :48:00. | |
ages to get to school, if you are at college and your place is cut, where | :48:01. | :48:06. | |
do you go for support? Kezia Dugdale. I was the Labour education | :48:07. | :48:11. | |
spokesperson when this bill was passed, and I supported it. I still | :48:12. | :48:17. | |
support the principle of the named person and my reason is because | :48:18. | :48:21. | |
charity after charity came and explained to me that this was | :48:22. | :48:26. | |
absolutely critical, not to protect the most vulnerable children in | :48:27. | :48:29. | |
society but those kids who maybe every other day come to school | :48:30. | :48:33. | |
hungry, or dirty, or having had a sleepless night. Nobody is tying | :48:34. | :48:37. | |
that together and understanding what that child might need. My problem | :48:38. | :48:43. | |
with the SNP position is that they have utterly failed to explain the | :48:44. | :48:46. | |
policy to the people of Scotland, which is why I have argued that we | :48:47. | :48:50. | |
should ask the children's commissioner who in principle | :48:51. | :48:53. | |
support the named person, to spend time running a campaign explaining | :48:54. | :48:57. | |
what it is about and why it would benefit thousands of children across | :48:58. | :49:02. | |
the country. You represent that as a flip-flop. Not at all. It is about | :49:03. | :49:06. | |
understanding what we are trying to do. People have lost faith in this | :49:07. | :49:11. | |
policy edit has to be rebuilt. David Mundell. This policy will be the | :49:12. | :49:19. | |
test of whether Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP are listening to the people | :49:20. | :49:23. | |
of Scotland. People want this policy withdrawn. It was bad legislation. | :49:24. | :49:28. | |
APPLAUSE What is bad about it? It was put | :49:29. | :49:37. | |
through by a majority SNP government with an ineffective Labour | :49:38. | :49:42. | |
opposition. The bad thing is that it applies to every child. It does not | :49:43. | :49:46. | |
focus the resources on the most vulnerable. It applies to every | :49:47. | :49:54. | |
single child. Why did the Tories abstain? I think people watching in | :49:55. | :49:58. | |
other parts of the UK will find it incredible that every child in | :49:59. | :50:04. | |
Scotland is to have a named person, regardless of any assessment of | :50:05. | :50:08. | |
their vulnerability. We have made it clear, our position, during the | :50:09. | :50:15. | |
election. It became clear that people in Scotland do not support | :50:16. | :50:18. | |
this approach and it is time for Nicola Sturgeon to withdraw this | :50:19. | :50:29. | |
policy. Jim Sillars. The named person is part of a large act of 103 | :50:30. | :50:40. | |
sections, and five schedules. It illustrates where the problem lies | :50:41. | :50:43. | |
in Holyrood. I will come to the named person in a moment. Let's | :50:44. | :50:50. | |
stick with that for the moment. I don't believe a nine to five | :50:51. | :50:54. | |
Holyrood parliament can properly legislate on issues like this. For | :50:55. | :51:03. | |
example, well-being. Well-being has several meanings, depending upon | :51:04. | :51:05. | |
family circumstances and the rest of it. It would not have passed | :51:06. | :51:12. | |
Westminster, let me tell you, on this basis, where the line by line | :51:13. | :51:18. | |
and clause by clause is examined. This is a well-meaning act, but if | :51:19. | :51:21. | |
you look at the sections that actually deal with the named person, | :51:22. | :51:25. | |
there is ambiguity all over the place. My advice to my colleagues in | :51:26. | :51:31. | |
the SNP would be to take away this section of the act and is discussed | :51:32. | :51:35. | |
with the other parties in Parliament. Everyone wants to look | :51:36. | :51:40. | |
after children. Discuss how this can be amended to meet the anxieties of | :51:41. | :51:46. | |
parents but ensure that those children who need looked after | :51:47. | :51:52. | |
actually get looked after. OK. APPLAUSE | :51:53. | :51:56. | |
Briefly, you don't think by its nature it is intrusive for it to | :51:57. | :52:03. | |
apply to everybody? Yes, I think if I were a parent I would think it | :52:04. | :52:08. | |
intrusive. Stephen Hall. We need this question, please. With job | :52:09. | :52:15. | |
losses in the oil and gas industry being significantly greater than in | :52:16. | :52:18. | |
the UK steel industry, why hasn't it been given the same level of media | :52:19. | :52:22. | |
coverage and political support? APPLAUSE | :52:23. | :52:36. | |
Employment in oil has obviously dropped, the price of oil has | :52:37. | :52:42. | |
dropped. David Mundell, there is a lot of government action around | :52:43. | :52:47. | |
steel, why not around oil? There is a lot of government action around | :52:48. | :52:51. | |
oil as well. The Prime Minister was in Aberdeen earlier in the year, | :52:52. | :52:55. | |
listening to what the oil industry had to say in relation to how the | :52:56. | :53:03. | |
job situation could be helped. And in the Budget, we saw major tax, | :53:04. | :53:09. | |
major tax changes. We saw looking at how we can take forward the | :53:10. | :53:13. | |
decommissioning process, contrary to what one of the participants said | :53:14. | :53:17. | |
earlier. We now have the legislation through which created the oil and | :53:18. | :53:23. | |
gas authority, which will look, importantly, at how costs can be | :53:24. | :53:26. | |
reduced within the industry, how we can get more collaboration. This | :53:27. | :53:32. | |
matter, and because we have seen some argy-bargy on the panel, this | :53:33. | :53:36. | |
is one area where the UK and Scottish governments have worked | :53:37. | :53:41. | |
very closely together will stop and one of the outcomes was announcing | :53:42. | :53:45. | |
the ?250 million Aberdeen city deal which will see money go into the | :53:46. | :53:51. | |
harbour, which will see a technology centre in Aberdeen, four example. So | :53:52. | :53:54. | |
we are very possessed of the urgency of this matter. Aberdeen has been a | :53:55. | :54:00. | |
lifeblood of the UK and Scotland for far too long. For decades we have | :54:01. | :54:08. | |
oversupplied the country with money. The thing is, Aberdeen's economy is | :54:09. | :54:16. | |
?82 billion a year, against Glasgow, Edinburgh and Dundee altogether | :54:17. | :54:19. | |
don't come near it. The taxes that come out of this part of the world, | :54:20. | :54:23. | |
no money comes back. APPLAUSE | :54:24. | :54:31. | |
I am sorry had to rush you. The Labour Party supported the case for | :54:32. | :54:40. | |
tax cuts for North Sea oil and gas but you can only offer tax cuts when | :54:41. | :54:43. | |
companies are making a profit and many companies in the North Sea are | :54:44. | :54:47. | |
not just now, which is why the Labour Party was advocating using | :54:48. | :54:50. | |
public money to almost nationalise key pipelines and protect them. That | :54:51. | :54:57. | |
is the kind of thing we need to do to protect North Sea oil and gas for | :54:58. | :55:00. | |
the short, medium and long-term, so that price rises can grow again. One | :55:01. | :55:08. | |
thing you can't do is assume the oil price will rise again and make | :55:09. | :55:12. | |
everything OK. The oil industry is declining, the price of oil may stay | :55:13. | :55:17. | |
low for many decades. It might go up to $60, it might go back down to | :55:18. | :55:24. | |
$30. You can't rely on this. What really needs to be done in Scotland | :55:25. | :55:28. | |
is to find other ways to boost the economy. This is where the SNP has | :55:29. | :55:32. | |
fallen down over the last eight years. The Scottish economy has | :55:33. | :55:37. | |
barely grown since 2008 while the UK economy has grown significantly. | :55:38. | :55:43. | |
Focusing on oil is a mistake because it is a declining industry that will | :55:44. | :55:47. | |
end at some point. You cannot call it a mistake when it is the | :55:48. | :55:52. | |
lifeblood of Aberdeen. You cannot fix it, you have to replace the | :55:53. | :55:55. | |
jobs. Perhaps eventually the SNP will opt looking at the -- start | :55:56. | :56:00. | |
looking at the scientific evidence and look at fracking again, because | :56:01. | :56:04. | |
that is where an awful lot of jobs in the oil industry can conceivably | :56:05. | :56:11. | |
be replaced. There are still very substantial fields in the North sea. | :56:12. | :56:18. | |
BP boasted that one would last for the next 40 years. It might sound in | :56:19. | :56:26. | |
modest, but I came here in 1977 and suggested that 50p of every barrel | :56:27. | :56:31. | |
should actually go to an investment fund in the north-east of Scotland, | :56:32. | :56:36. | |
so that... APPLAUSE | :56:37. | :56:39. | |
So that if problems arose there was capital to be employed to make sure | :56:40. | :56:45. | |
that that was partly overcome. I was laughed at them. I would suggest to | :56:46. | :56:52. | |
folk in Aberdeen and Grampian, you want to start arguing that case | :56:53. | :56:58. | |
again. Hamza Yusuf. I agree with a lot of what the panel and audience | :56:59. | :57:02. | |
have been saying. We will step up and that is why the First Minister | :57:03. | :57:06. | |
immediately put together an energy task force. The task force will not | :57:07. | :57:11. | |
do anything, which is why we had to put money in and work with the UK | :57:12. | :57:15. | |
Government and other partners. But I agree with the gentleman in the | :57:16. | :57:19. | |
audience that Aberdeen has been used as a cash cow by successive UK | :57:20. | :57:23. | |
governments, and it is about time the UK Government gave back to | :57:24. | :57:28. | |
Aberdeen. And let me say to Merryn, that despite the differences and | :57:29. | :57:31. | |
difficulties that people in Aberdeen have, and we will support and put as | :57:32. | :57:36. | |
much finance as we can to support people, rushing to fracking is | :57:37. | :57:40. | |
certainly not the answer. It is certainly not rushing. Apologies to | :57:41. | :57:45. | |
those who have their hands up. We're in Wallsall next week, | :57:46. | :57:49. | |
with Yvette Cooper for Labour, Amber Rudd for the Tories | :57:50. | :57:53. | |
and the broadcaster We'll be in Ipswich | :57:54. | :57:56. | |
the following week. To join the audience, Walsall | :57:57. | :58:00. | |
or Ipswich, go to our website, I have lost the telephone number. | :58:01. | :58:03. | |
Here we are. We're in Wallsall next week, | :58:04. | :58:32. | |
with Yvette Cooper for Labour, Amber Rudd for the Tories | :58:33. | :58:34. | |
and the broadcaster We'll be in Ipswich | :58:35. | :58:36. | |
the following week. The debate continues on Radio 5 Live | :58:37. | :58:49. | |
until the early hours of the morning so you can follow the arguments | :58:50. | :58:54. | |
there. As far as we are concerned in Aberdeen, I hope you had a good | :58:55. | :58:57. | |
evening. Thank you, and on till next Thursday, thank you to our panel as | :58:58. | :59:00. | |
well, and good night. | :59:01. | :59:04. |