13/10/2016 Question Time


13/10/2016

David Dimbleby presents topical debate from the RAF Museum in London. On the panel are Damian Green MP, Emily Thornberry MP, Alex Salmond MP, Amol Rajan and Isabel Oakeshott.


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Transcript


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This week we are in the shadow of a Second World War Lancaster

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Conservative Work and Pensions Secretary, Damian Green.

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Labour's Shadow Foreign Secretary, Emily Thornberry.

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The former Leader of the SNP and First Minister of

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The Daily Mail's political editor at large, Isabel Oakeshott.

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And the editor of the Independent, which stopped printing to go online

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As ever, you can join the debate on Facebook,

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Your can make your comments on what you hear around this table and by

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this audience. Our first question from Mr Hambro? Did the British

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public give Theresa May a blank cheque to force through which ever

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Brexit she likes? Alex Salmond? I don't think that would be would or

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should be the case. There's going to be a majority in the House of

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Commons to invehicle Article 50, the article to withdraw from the

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European Union. I think there's going to be a vote. I suspect, a

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very close vote forced on the House of Commonses as to what kind of

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Brexit the Prime Minister now has in mind. She told us for some weeks

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that Brexit means Brexit, but never told us what Brexit meant. You can

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have a variety of withdrawals from the European Union. You could be

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like Norway, in the single market, out with the customs union, but not

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a member of the European Union. You can be like Turkey, which is

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actually not a member of the European Union, not in the single

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market, but within a customs union. Which of these has she been offered

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by the Brexit vote or lick her finger and hold it up to the air?

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She has to tell us and get the Brexiteers to agree with each other.

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Then they can come to the House of Commons to say this is the type of

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Brexit that we want to see. We will find out if it's a hard Brexit, a

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soft Brexit or a dog's breakfast! Damian Green. Donald tusk say the

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only alternative to hard Brexit is no Brexit. When people voted on June

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23rd they were voting for some form of more control. So the plan the

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Government has got is that we should certainly take control of our

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borders. That we should have our laws made by our own Parliament

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rather than have to go through the European Court of Justies.

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Crucially, that we need the best deal for businesses both in goods

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and services that trade in Europe. Now, that's a clear plan. What the

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details will be will obviously have to be negotiated with the 27 other

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European countries. No sensible person has ever gone into a

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negotiation saying every last detail is going to be put on the table at

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the start. So I think the idea to have all the details out there would

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be disked a van tailingious to this country. If there are people who

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regret the result and want to use procedures to obstruct it. I was on

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the board of the In campaign. No-one campaigned harder than I did to keep

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us in. I'm democrat. The British people voted to get out and I think

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we should respect that referendum result.

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APPLAUSE. Not saying that Parliament shouldn't respect the democratic

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result, of course not. Don't you think that There should at least

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be... Not reveal your entire hand before negotiation, come to

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Parliament, the people's representatives, and be held

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accountable? I think it's in the Government's interest and the whole

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country to be held accountable rather than getting some kind of

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blank cheque? Briefly? Well, briefly, this week in Parliament

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alone we've had about seven-and-a-half hours debate on

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this. A two hour statement from David Davis. A Labour opposition day

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debate yesterday. Yesterday five-and-a-half hours. That will be

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repeated week after week. Parliament will have a huge say in this

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negotiation. The Government has just set up a new cross-party Select

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Committee to investigate this, Chaired by a Labour MP with

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representatives of all countries in the United Kingdom on it. Parliament

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will obviously have a huge say in this. The woman there. Then Emily

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Thornberry. Whatever kind of Brexit Theresa May is going to choose, what

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we need really is an end to this uncertainty that is destabilising

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the economy at the moment, fluctuating the pound and affecting

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businesses, big and small. We have seen fr Unilever down to the small

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businesses that I run, a small architecture firm, that my clients

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are nervous. They're not wanting to put on the line all of their savings

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when you don't know what will happen. Are you saying she should

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have made up her mind what kind of solution she is going to go for?

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Would that be enough. She has to negotiate with the rest of the EU,

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hasn't she? There are a few opportunities we have to put forward

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this plan and she's... With Labour's vote this week to spell it out

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before she enters into the realm of discussing with the EU. Emily

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Thornberry. APPLAUSE. Does Theresa May have a

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blank cheque, absolutely not. Absolutely not. The fact of the

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matter is, that of course we get our instructions from the British public

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and the British public have said they want us to leave the European

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Union. But one thing that wasn't clear from that referendum, and the

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so-called debate around it, was what our continuing relationship with

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Europe was going to be because we arary not going to go sailing off

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into the North Sea and having nothing to do with our European

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neighbours with whom we export 45% of good and services at the moment.

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We need a continuing relationship. They have had many months since the

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referendum. Theresa May did not stood on a platform. Didn't have a

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manifesto in terms of what kind of leader she was going to be. We go

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into Tory party conference. We get different versions. Theresa May

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playing to the right-wingers. Liam Fox, lord knows what his version of

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Brexit will be. We have the Chancellor of the Exchequer and his

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department clearly totally with jitters about it. They are all

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saying different things. The Japanese companies who invest a

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great deal in our country and are major investors. The Japanese

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government, they are so pee lie. They wrote a letter, made it public,

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they asked a series of questions, quite right to, what are you going

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to do? What is your continuing trade relationship with Europe going to

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be? What will be the migration policy? What will you do with

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regional funding? There are so many questions... 170 questions. 170

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questions. I have them, too. One question a day. You expect them to

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answer all these? Of course. If they don't answer our questions now,

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right, I can tell you one thing, the 27 partners that we have in Europe,

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they will be asking all these questions when they arrive in

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Brussels on the 31st March. They will want to know what our position

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is. When the Tories say - we have to keep our cards close to our chest,

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excuse me, what cards? You can't even agree amongst ourselves what

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game you are playing. It's not right and not democratic for them to think

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they can go into a locked room, have a bust up amongst themselves and

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decide what is best for me, my children and my grandchildren. Thank

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you. APPLAUSE. Isabel Oakeshott.

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This 170 questions put by Labour is an absolute absurdity. I had the

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displeasure of hearing Emily Thornberry on the radio yesterday

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unable to answer even one question about her party's immigration

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policy. To get back to the issue about hard or soft Brexit. I would

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like to get rid of this term "hard Brexit." It is designed to

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intimidate. It's a continuation of Project Fear. Let's think about what

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"soft Brexit is" it's sell-out Brexit. Hard Brexit is real Brexit.

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It's what people voted for which is control over our borders. Oh, no.

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APPLAUSE. All right. Amol Rajan, do you remember the question. The

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question was, has the British public given Theresa May a blank cheque. I

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will come back to this... I haven't enough time to get into that. Let's

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not go there. I agree with Isabel Oakeshott that the idea of hard and

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soft Brexit is complete and utter nonsense. It's a dangerous type of

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language. What we are talking about is a single market. On the single

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market the question is - is Britain going to remain part of the single

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market We don't know. When Article 50 is triggered you enter a two year

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negotiation. In that negotiation, over two years, I can't see why 27

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countries each of which has a veto, can't see why any of them have any

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incentive to let us remain part of the single market. They would think

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- Britain has to pay a price for coming out. Theresa May said it in

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her conference speech that Britain's relationship won't be anything like

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what it was. I take it to mean we will be leaving the single market.

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It's really about respecting the will of the people which is to say,

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if people want control of migration you have to leave the single market.

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That is the fact. That, as far as I can see, that is the trade off made

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on June 23rd. Britain might become poorer but we get control of

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immigration. How do you know that? Damian Green said it was about

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wanting more control, simply, how do you know? I don't know. I interpret

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from general polls. Poll that is have been recorded for years that

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people want low migration. I have two questions that a lot of people

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would want answered which I don't know the answer to, despite being

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someone who follows politics closely. If there was a vote in

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Parliament it wouldn't be binding it's not legislation, I can't see

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why the Government wouldn't just ignore it? I don't know why that

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matters. The other thing is, if you are starting a negotiation which

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lasts for two years, how can you ask a Government to lay out all of its

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negotiating position and the things on which it's flexible. You can't do

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that... Sgls can you ask no questions at all of the Prime

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Minister? I don't understand how it would work to say to the Government

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come forward... When David Cameron went off to Europe before the

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referendum and fixed the problems of Europe, he went entirely as a

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representative of the Tory party going into a general election. The

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people in Europe saw him coming and thought - he's not speaking on

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behalf of the whole of Britain, he is speaking on behalf of Torrancies.

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They were wrong. We thought they weren't going to win the election.

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They did. In order for them to strengthen their hand what they

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should be doing is am coulding to the British parliament. We should be

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able to have a debate. We ought to have an exchange of ideas and come

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to at least some form - We did that yesterday. I will come to that.

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Don't come to that. Five-and-a-half hours we were sitting in parliament.

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Did we get anything from the Tories at all in terms of what their plans

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were? Absolutely not. I will stop you. Everybody else has to have a

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say. Damian Green said there will be lots of discussion but he didn't say

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whether there will be a vote. You can talk endlessly and find out

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nothing. Is there going to be a vote. There the reason there has to

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be a vote. At some stage to withdraw from the European Union there has to

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be an Act passed. They should have a note now. If they can't get a

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majority for the negotiating terms, how on earth would they get a

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majority after they finished the negotiations. That is why they

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should bring the terms to parliament now, have a vote and let's see...

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The assumption that we are trading our membership of the single market

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for ability to control our borders and gaining our sovereignty is a

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strange one because I think it's a positive case for leaving the single

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market we are leaving a world of regulation and entering a world of

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markets which seem to be creating trade deals with far greater

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success. All right. APPLAUSE.

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The man at the back. Thank you. You say you had a clear plan on

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negotiating Brexit. Theresa May said she wants maximum control of the

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borders and maximum possible access to the single market. But you can't

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have both. I need to know, how is that a plan It's not an unreasonable

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position to want it. It's a perfectly sensible opening position

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that we accept. I said that in my first answer. You said, Alex, there

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will have to be a vote on an Act. Absolutely. That's what the Prime

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Minister promised this week. There will be a repeal Act in the next...

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Talk about a strategy it has nothing to do with it. It's of the European

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Union... No. Let me finish. It's about repealing the existing

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legislation. That is precisely what the legislation is. Parliament will

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debate that and vote on it. Is that the same thing... Downing Street

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said there would be a vote on a final deal. Is that what you are

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talking about or something different No. No, that's another vote. It

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pullsous out of the European Union Act. The woman there. Damian Green

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opened by saying people clearly want more control, but how do they know

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what people want? The question on the ballot paper is, do you want to

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remain or leave the European Union? They seem to be... The one thing

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they seem to be hijacking the voice of the Leave voters for their own

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ends. When you voted. I won't ask you how you voted. Did you know what

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you were voting for? Yes. Perhaps I will ask how you voted. I voted to

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remain. Are you suggesting that the vast pa yort of people who voted to

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leave, 17.4 million people didn't know what they were voting for or

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why? No, I'm suggesting... Because most YES! Oh, right. That is

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fascinating that you think so many people, ordinary voters, are so

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stupid. APPLAUSE. What they think is voters

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were lied to by the No campaign, that is what they think. You don't

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think they were lied to by the Yes campaign. People voted for many

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different reasons, I know many Leave voters who did not vote to kerb

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immigration they voted for more sovereignty. So a hard Brexit does

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not serve their vote. You will get sovereignty. You. I agree with Emily

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Thornberry, I'd like to make the point, are we going to allow a woman

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exercise an executive power because she's a Prime Minister who doesn't

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have a democratic mandate of her own and who is refusing to call a

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general election for all of us to test the credibility of her

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Premiership? You, in the second row? We almost

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need to get back to the point where we are talking about the card on the

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table and anyone that negotiates don't put their cards on the table

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publicly or even in Parliament, I would say, I would say everyone

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needs to come up with a plan and an idea, put that forward and maybe

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then a general election or some sort of vote, not a referendum, could be

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then given. OK. Any Leave voters? What do you feel about the way that

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it's being handled now, the man in the white and grey? It's been

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handled in the correct way I think. Correct way? Yes. Do you know what

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you voted for? Absolutely. What anoise me is when Mr Salmond and Mrs

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Thornberry tell us things, it's almost like project fear again. Stop

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belittling us, we know what we voted for. What did you vote for? To take

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sovereignty of our laws, to get rid of the single markets regulation and

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to take back control of immigration. Now, I know that hasn't been put in

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black-and-white and we don't have a definitive plan, but there were

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freaky aspects we voted for, so stop telling us we didn't know what we

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voted for, because we did. APPLAUSE.

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Some people, perhaps not yourself, believe that the National Health

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Service was going to get an extra ?350 million a week. We have seen no

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sign of it. Anybody else who voted Brexit? You, Sir? There were three

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Holy Grails of what leave means, taking back control of immigration,

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laws and money. None of that can be achieved in the single markets.

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David Cameron, George Osborne, everyone has a consensus, leave

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means leave, remain means means remain in. I don't know why the

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"bemoaners" believe we should leave by the back door. It's ridiculous.

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Do you agree? It's difficult for me to interpret what Leave voters

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wanted. But you are in the Government, you have to interpret

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it? That's what we are doing. Broadly speaking, that is the

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message we get from the Leave vote and, broadly speaking, as I've said

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a couple of times, that's what we are looking to. The question of

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trying to achieve the maximum control of immigration and also the

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maximum advantage for British companies trading in Europe, yes

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that's exactly what we are trying to do and it will be a negotiation so

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we can't lay out the details now, but it does seem not unreasonable,

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as an opening position to say, we'll do what the British people have

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wanted and also what is to the maximum economic advantage for the

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future prosperity of this country. All right. Emily, you said, we have

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to negotiate but then we need to consult the public again on whether

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or not the deal is a reflection of what they thought they were voting

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for. If you talk to that gentleman there who voted out, there is no

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need to consult him again and no need to consult him there, it was

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over 17 million who voted out. You are saying they don't believe they

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knew what they were voting for. Let me ask it this way, how many people

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voted to take their next door neighbour's job away because... That

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is ludicrous. That is ludicrous. Because the truth is, is that the

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Government ought to have first of all it's primary responsibility, the

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safety of its people, and the secondary responsibility is to make

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sure we have a decent economy so people keep their jobs. People

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who've only just got their heads above water, if this economy goes

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south, people who're just making ends meet will be the ones who'll

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suffer most. It won't be Liam Fox's family who'll suffer, it will be

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ordinary families suffer. So you issued the challenge, how many of

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you voted to take your neighbour's jobs away? Hands up. No hands up. I

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mean that is ludicrous. I'll tell you what, Emily, the job of the

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opposition is not to talk total nonsense. Yeah.

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APPLAUSE. You, Sir? Would Emily Thornberry

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please provide the terms that Labour would agree to and would you provide

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the answers to the 170 questions that you'd like to receive?

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I think that if we were able... We haven't got time for the 170. Try

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one? I would be quite happy to be the Foreign Secretary and for us to

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be in Government and for us to have What you would like to do... We'd

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like to have Whitehall at our disposal but we do not. We are the

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opposition, it's our obligation at a time like this, at a time of grave

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constitutional, economic and political crisis for us to be asking

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questions and for the Government to be doing its utmost to answer them.

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Uncertainty has to end. For the sake of all of us. It isn't just the sake

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of us, the CBI, the Japanese, the chair of the Treasury Select

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Committee. You have said that, yes. Well, you know. Can I put things a

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different way from Emily. I spent two referendums, the Scottish one

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and the European one deprecating project fear. During the referendum

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campaign I was arguing for Corp remain but on this programme I

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attacked George Osborne for the way he was presenting the Remain

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argument because I didn't think people were going to be bullied out

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of the vote, nor should they have been. But the fact is, if it is a

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hard Brexit, if we go out with the single market with no provisions in

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place for the trade, then we will lose jobs. The Prime Minister is the

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first Lord of the Treasury, the Treasury forecast says that. Now

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either she should sack the civil servants who're forecasting and get

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other ones or perhaps she should sack the Chancellor or both,

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whatever, she can't have her cake and eat it in that sense. However,

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the Scottish Parliament had a forecast produced that out with the

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single market, there would be 80,000 jobs lost in Scotland. Now, that's

:22:50.:22:56.

people not in the Treasury. That can be changed if there are other

:22:57.:23:00.

arrangements made. But unless we know what the arrangements are, then

:23:01.:23:04.

we face the hard Brexit possibility and the job losses. That is the

:23:05.:23:10.

outcome. The man in the checked shirt. You, please? We were offered

:23:11.:23:20.

a bindery choice, to Leave or Remain, we weren't offered to stay

:23:21.:23:25.

in the single market but remain like Norway. To do that would respect the

:23:26.:23:29.

referendum because we weren't offered that choice. It would

:23:30.:23:32.

maintain the best things about the European Union and deal with many

:23:33.:23:38.

people's concerns, avoid the economic catastrophe about the hard

:23:39.:23:42.

Brexit. Extraordinary that the Government has ruled that out of the

:23:43.:23:46.

question. You, Sir, in the front? Moving on

:23:47.:23:52.

from the nitty-gritty, either hard or soft Brexit, the result that was

:23:53.:23:57.

quite close has showed that Britain is very divided in terms of opinion

:23:58.:24:01.

on either side and also, I think that in the Daily Mail and the Daily

:24:02.:24:04.

Express this week, the headlines and the kind of Daily Mail or Daily

:24:05.:24:12.

Express comment damning Ramoaners as you put it, I mean I disagree with

:24:13.:24:17.

that by the way, but the very fact that you have put that in vitriolic

:24:18.:24:24.

language to 48% of Britain does not help reverse the divisions in

:24:25.:24:28.

British society. Isabel, let me ask you a question. If you were Prime

:24:29.:24:34.

Minister and you're faced with 48% saying Remain, what account of them

:24:35.:24:37.

would you take if you were Theresa May? Well, that is obviously a very

:24:38.:24:42.

legitimate question but I need to come back to... What is the

:24:43.:24:47.

legitimate answer? In this country we have a Parliamentary democracy

:24:48.:24:51.

that goes by a first-past-the-post system so in the referendum the

:24:52.:24:54.

majority of the people voted out, that has to be respected. To come

:24:55.:25:00.

back to you on your issue with the Daily Mail editorial. When we talked

:25:01.:25:06.

about Ramoaners, it's not ordinary people voting to remain, it's the

:25:07.:25:10.

politicians, Anna Soubry, Nicky Morgan, the politicians, by the way

:25:11.:25:15.

the majority of whose own constituents voted out. Ed Miliband

:25:16.:25:19.

the same, the majority of his voted out and yet they are telling us it's

:25:20.:25:25.

doom, it's going to be Amageddon and we are not respecting the will of

:25:26.:25:30.

the people and are trying to argue for another referendum dumb because

:25:31.:25:34.

they didn't like the answer. What do you make of your colleagues who've

:25:35.:25:39.

been named by the Daily Mail as the moaners? Democratic politicians are

:25:40.:25:46.

have the right and duty to say what they think and newspapers shouldn't

:25:47.:25:50.

complain about that. The point about it was 52-48 is a good one and the

:25:51.:25:54.

answer to what is the job of the Government is, precisely to bring

:25:55.:25:58.

the country together by producing the best deal possible and Emily was

:25:59.:26:03.

right. Let me rescue emmy. He was right to talk about the... I don't

:26:04.:26:09.

think she needs rescuing. The economic issue is very, very

:26:10.:26:11.

important. We have got a tremendously strong economy. We have

:26:12.:26:16.

been the fastest growing big economy for years, we've got more jobs than

:26:17.:26:20.

we've had for ten years, more women in work than ever before and

:26:21.:26:24.

preserving that by keeping Britain as a prosperous outward looking

:26:25.:26:27.

global trading nation both with Europe and the rest of the world is

:26:28.:26:30.

absolutely at the heart of what the Government is trying to do and that

:26:31.:26:35.

will preserve our prosperity for the future. The second lady that spoke

:26:36.:26:41.

was a small business owner. I've got to tell you two things that

:26:42.:26:43.

everybody here needs to understand. We have got two and a bit years for

:26:44.:26:47.

this. This is going on for a long time. You are shaking your head

:26:48.:26:51.

because you want certainty. We are not going to have anything like

:26:52.:26:57.

certainty for a long time. 27 other countries have a veto. Even if you

:26:58.:27:01.

think you have certainty, in the final minute, someone can pull a

:27:02.:27:05.

rabbit out of the hat so get used to it, basically. Sorry, we'd better

:27:06.:27:08.

move on because we are half way through the programme on that one

:27:09.:27:12.

topic. Do you want very briefly to speak? You have had your hand up a

:27:13.:27:19.

long time? I take issue with people saying that people that voted out

:27:20.:27:23.

were stupid because we are not. I've done informed research and based my

:27:24.:27:26.

decision on that. Absolutely.

:27:27.:27:30.

APPLAUSE. And what did you vote for when you

:27:31.:27:35.

voted? I voted to leave. For what though? To leave the single market

:27:36.:27:38.

because there is a bigger world out there that we can trade with. There

:27:39.:27:41.

is so much more opportunities than in Europe and there is no growth in

:27:42.:27:45.

Europe. And did you vote to take your neighbour's job away? Come on,

:27:46.:27:51.

ridiculous question. I vote to take Emily's job away.

:27:52.:27:52.

APPLAUSE. We're in Hartlepool next week

:27:53.:28:05.

and Gloucester the following week. Come and speak your mind,

:28:06.:28:07.

I'll give the details at the end. Next question from Daniel Chambers,

:28:08.:28:29.

please? Have the latest Donald Trump revelations made him unfit to be

:28:30.:28:35.

President? I don't think we needed the latest revelations to know that

:28:36.:28:40.

he was unfit. He's a psychopath. He is narcissistic. He can't relate to

:28:41.:28:45.

people. If you watch him wandering around that debate, it's an

:28:46.:28:50.

amazingly weird psychological experience but actually I almost

:28:51.:28:54.

began to feel pity for the man. He's an extreme loner, he doesn't have

:28:55.:28:58.

any friends, he's lived a sad, lonely life and he's got a ludicrous

:28:59.:29:05.

bunch. Of policies which means he probably won't get elected. There's

:29:06.:29:09.

still a bit of time before he could get elected. Imagine Vladimir Putin

:29:10.:29:13.

is planning an October surprise, he'd like him to get in, so I

:29:14.:29:17.

wouldn't be surprised if he hijacks the election in some way. There is a

:29:18.:29:22.

huge phenomenon which we neglect in the US. There is a lot of people who

:29:23.:29:27.

say that they don't know are actually going to vote for Trump.

:29:28.:29:30.

The two big questions are, if Trump is such a psychopath and lying,

:29:31.:29:36.

racist, sexist bully, why isn't Hillary way ahead and I'm not saying

:29:37.:29:40.

that because I think she's a terrible candidate, I think it

:29:41.:29:42.

speaks to the fact that America is very divided. If Trump loses, you've

:29:43.:29:49.

still got a massive problem, 60 million people who expressed a vote

:29:50.:29:53.

for him and feel that they are being completely neglected. The way to

:29:54.:30:00.

understand Trump, it's like King Leah, on the heath going completely

:30:01.:30:07.

mad and says, we should do such things, of which I know not yet.

:30:08.:30:13.

Like the Dylan Thomas he roar, he's raging.

:30:14.:30:18.

-- hero, he's raging. Isabelle Oakeshott? I found his

:30:19.:30:23.

comments on women absolutely repel lieutenant and I think they probably

:30:24.:30:29.

do disqualify him for the presidency -- repellant. What worries me is

:30:30.:30:36.

that, why has he got as far as he has? The reason is that people who

:30:37.:30:42.

back Trump in America are not looking for a messiah, they are not

:30:43.:30:46.

looking to vote for the Pope, they are looking for a battering ram,

:30:47.:30:50.

looking for something that crashes the establishment and it's a kind

:30:51.:30:56.

of, the way I see it, a kind of howl of protest against the sanitisation

:30:57.:31:00.

of political debate. People like the fact that he is prepared to go into

:31:01.:31:08.

debates that others wouldn't have. On immigration, he's throwing it all

:31:09.:31:12.

out there, being dangerous and provocative. It's deeply worrying

:31:13.:31:15.

but you have to look at what got him there in the first place.

:31:16.:31:19.

Emily Thornberry. Well, as a British politician, it's... We have to be

:31:20.:31:27.

very careful about telling American's how to vote - No, you

:31:28.:31:33.

don't. What we could do perhaps is rely, quote Her Majesty when she

:31:34.:31:35.

said before the Scottish referendum, "we would hope that they would think

:31:36.:31:40.

very carefully about it." Let me answer it, instead of answering as a

:31:41.:31:44.

British politician. Let me answer it as a woman. As a woman I thought his

:31:45.:31:50.

comments were completely disgusting and totally offensive and of course

:31:51.:31:53.

he shouldn't be American president. All right. The woman in the second

:31:54.:31:59.

row. How do you think our relationship with the States will

:32:00.:32:03.

change if he does become president? I think it's very difficult to know

:32:04.:32:07.

exactly what he's going to do in terms of his policies. I think he

:32:08.:32:11.

has thrived on getting as much attention as he can by saying

:32:12.:32:15.

outrageous things. I think that the difficulty that we have in relation

:32:16.:32:20.

to his attitude to women is that that is deeply ingrained. The idea

:32:21.:32:24.

that somebody could be president of America and have the attitude he

:32:25.:32:28.

does to half the population is completely inappropriate. Alex

:32:29.:32:31.

Salmond, do you share the view you heard around this table about why he

:32:32.:32:36.

got the Republican nomination, why he's not, sort of, already left the

:32:37.:32:43.

scene? He's riding an anti--establishment wave. Thus far

:32:44.:32:48.

he has been compared to King Lear and Her Majesty, the Queen. And

:32:49.:32:54.

Dillon Thomas' father as well. The best description I have read about

:32:55.:33:00.

Trump is an article in the FT which said that only drunks and sociopaths

:33:01.:33:05.

tweet at 3.00am in the morning. Loner. Trump is a teetotaller.

:33:06.:33:14.

That's, basically, what he is. I mean, all this stuff about the

:33:15.:33:19.

Muslims and Mexicans, I mean that was for the campaign. That was to

:33:20.:33:33.

get the Republican nomination. He's a sociopath, a demagogue. The he's

:33:34.:33:36.

not fit to be president for all of these reasons. He thinks you are a

:33:37.:33:40.

has been and totally irrelevant, which is what he said about you? I

:33:41.:33:45.

say you should judge people by your enemies. I'm proud to call Donald

:33:46.:33:48.

Trump one of my enemies. The woman there. Seeing as Trump is such a

:33:49.:33:55.

ridiculous psychopath, why are we letting someone from Britain who has

:33:56.:34:00.

appeared on a number of official stages and has affected a lot of

:34:01.:34:05.

people, Nigel Farage, who has led - well, hasn't led, has been a

:34:06.:34:08.

prominent figure in a campaign to leave the EU, why are we letting him

:34:09.:34:12.

appear on a stage with Donald Trump and coach Donald Trump? Why is there

:34:13.:34:20.

like no... We are nota dictatorship. Since Nigel Farage did that, Trump

:34:21.:34:24.

has been sinking like a stone. Farage might be our secret weapon!

:34:25.:34:31.

The guy with the jacket and glasses. You are starting to Chair the

:34:32.:34:36.

programme. He says you are in favour of Trump? I'm fed of politicians

:34:37.:34:42.

attacking Donald Trump calling him sexist. Hillary Clinton leaked

:34:43.:34:49.

emails, you calling him unfit is, quite frankly, ridiculous. I like

:34:50.:34:54.

him, he's nice. He will make America great again. He's the change

:34:55.:34:56.

candidate. He wants to improve things for

:34:57.:35:00.

African-Americans in the inner city areas. Hillary Clinton has done

:35:01.:35:03.

nothing as Secretary of State she's an appalling woman. Quite frankly,

:35:04.:35:09.

she is not fit. You at the back there. At least Hillary Clinton has

:35:10.:35:15.

held office, she was quite an effective Secretary of State. What

:35:16.:35:21.

has Trump done? He's got no political experience at all despite

:35:22.:35:25.

all the other faults he's got. Damian Green, is he unfit to be

:35:26.:35:30.

president? It's a seriously bad idea for Government ministers in another

:35:31.:35:36.

country to try and advise democratic friendly countries... I'm asking

:35:37.:35:41.

whether you think he is unfit. You are are not advising the American

:35:42.:35:49.

electorate. You don't need fob pomp pos about it? I will comment on the

:35:50.:35:55.

words. Partly because I think Isabel Oakeshott and Emily said as a woman

:35:56.:35:58.

she found those words he sado fencive. Can I say as a man I found

:35:59.:36:03.

them really offensive as well. APPLAUSE. -- pompous. We will go on

:36:04.:36:14.

to another question. Gabrielle Baigel. When playing games with my

:36:15.:36:22.

nieces and nef you nephews we sometimes need to make it the best

:36:23.:36:25.

of three if they're losing. How many Scottish referendums are we going to

:36:26.:36:31.

need? I will come to you in a moment, Damian Green? We have had a

:36:32.:36:36.

referendum in Scotland. The Scottish people very sensibly decided they

:36:37.:36:40.

were better off inside the United Kingdom. I think that's good for

:36:41.:36:43.

everyone else in the UK and certainly good for Scotland. All the

:36:44.:36:47.

leaders of the SNP at the time, including Alex, said this was a once

:36:48.:36:51.

in a generation, once-in-a-lifetime vote. They now seem to be changing

:36:52.:36:56.

their mind on that. I have great faith in the common sense of the

:36:57.:37:01.

Scottish people. They rejected separation when oil was $100 a

:37:02.:37:04.

barrel. They have twice as much reason to do it now oil is $50 a

:37:05.:37:09.

barrel. Frankly, you have to ask yourself - why is the SNP doing this

:37:10.:37:14.

now? This is a piece of Blueser to distract from the fact they are

:37:15.:37:18.

doing their day job, running the Scottish Government, very badly.

:37:19.:37:23.

School standards are falling in Scotland, there are fewer deprived

:37:24.:37:27.

children go to university in Scotland than they do in England and

:37:28.:37:32.

Wales. People are waiting longer for help from the police because of the

:37:33.:37:35.

Scottish Government. They are trying to distract the Scottish people from

:37:36.:37:38.

the recognition that actually as a Government they're very, very poor.

:37:39.:37:47.

APPLAUSE. What Nicola Sturgeon, the First Minister said today was, she

:37:48.:37:51.

is determined Scotland will have the ability to reconsider the question

:37:52.:37:55.

of independence. If she comes out saying we want another referendum,

:37:56.:37:58.

would the Westminster Government, the British Government agree to it?

:37:59.:38:02.

We haven't got anywhere fear. That's a process point. I'm saying they

:38:03.:38:05.

shouldn't. I don't think the Scottish people would. You I don't

:38:06.:38:08.

think there should be another referendum. Damian Green was reading

:38:09.:38:14.

from his Central Office brief about what he thinks of Scottish education

:38:15.:38:18.

and health service. Nicola Sturgeon was re-elected First Minister of

:38:19.:38:21.

Scotland m May this year with 47% of the vote. Now, that is a mandate

:38:22.:38:27.

that the Conservative Party could only dream about. You have a leader

:38:28.:38:31.

who has not been elected. Your previous leader got 37% of the vote.

:38:32.:38:34.

In that manifesto that she was elected on in May of this year,

:38:35.:38:39.

contained the words "that if there is a significant and material

:38:40.:38:43.

changing in circumstances, like Scotland being dragged out of the

:38:44.:38:48.

European Union against the wishes of the Scottish people, then the

:38:49.:38:50.

Scottish Parliament should have the right to hold another referendum. "

:38:51.:38:56.

On that manifesto she was re-elected First Minister with 47% of the vote.

:38:57.:39:01.

Now, that is an unimpeachable man daylight to say what Nicola Sturgeon

:39:02.:39:05.

said today. Will there be a referendum, in your view? I think

:39:06.:39:09.

what will happen is as follows. I think Nicola will put forward to the

:39:10.:39:13.

Prime Minister, Theresa May, representing interests of Scotland.

:39:14.:39:18.

A plan where by Scotland can retain its European connections in trade. A

:39:19.:39:22.

plan to defend European citizens in Scotland so they are not treated as

:39:23.:39:26.

bargaining chips or cards to be played. Their rights are respected.

:39:27.:39:33.

A plan to defend the social and employments rights of Scottish

:39:34.:39:36.

workers. That is the plan will go forward to Theresa May. The ball

:39:37.:39:40.

will be in her court to accommodate that within her Brexit negotiations.

:39:41.:39:44.

If she says yes to that, I think that will be Nicola discharging her

:39:45.:39:48.

mandate. If she says no I think there will be another referendum

:39:49.:39:51.

within two years. Which she will lose again? I don't think Nicola

:39:52.:39:57.

will be holding it... She wouldn't beholding it... Unless she thought

:39:58.:40:00.

she was going to win it. I think that's absolutely right. I started

:40:01.:40:07.

the referendum campaign in 2012 at 27% of the vote. We ended up at 45%.

:40:08.:40:13.

Now, I don't think Nicola Sturgeon is going to have too many

:40:14.:40:17.

compunctions starting on 48% of the vote, which is where the latest poll

:40:18.:40:21.

shows it. You win referendums in terms of the arguments you put

:40:22.:40:25.

forward and the movement of people. If you put forward a case which

:40:26.:40:30.

appeals to people's hopes for the future. That addresses the

:40:31.:40:33.

questions, then you can win a referendum. The woman in the front

:40:34.:40:36.

there. The argument that Damian put forward, she has no mandate for it,

:40:37.:40:42.

is absolutely and utterly ridiculous and ignores the results of the

:40:43.:40:46.

Scottish elections. If you think about the EU referendum, 48% of the

:40:47.:40:50.

people decided to stay, so in two or three years time if we don't get the

:40:51.:40:54.

deals or conditions we want there should be another referendum as to

:40:55.:40:59.

whether we should rejoin the EU There should be a referendum when a

:41:00.:41:01.

parliament votes for a referendum when it decides to put it to the

:41:02.:41:05.

people. If the Scottish Parliament, it would have to be the SNP and the

:41:06.:41:10.

Green Party, combine to have the majority - Is Brexit then no means

:41:11.:41:15.

no? They can put the matter to the people in the referendum. If a

:41:16.:41:18.

parliament votes for it, the people have a right to decide. I think we

:41:19.:41:23.

have the point. I'm amazing you are going on and boosting about this 47%

:41:24.:41:29.

which is apparently great for you, but when it's 52% for out that's not

:41:30.:41:33.

good enough. And, by the way... No the referendum... Alex, let her

:41:34.:41:41.

speak. I'm also amazed that Alex wants another referendum. The

:41:42.:41:44.

economic case for Scottish independence has been absolutely

:41:45.:41:53.

shredded. Scotland is more of economic basket case than Greece at

:41:54.:41:56.

the moment. How would you pay your Welfare Bill without us This lady

:41:57.:42:01.

was complaining about Project Fear. Project Reality is what we have

:42:02.:42:04.

here. That's what you need to listen to. OK. If Scotland wasn't a viable

:42:05.:42:13.

extremely prosperous country with amazing natural human resources the

:42:14.:42:16.

Treasury and the Conservative Party wouldn't be anxious to hold on to

:42:17.:42:21.

us, I can tell you that. You asked how many referendums do we need, the

:42:22.:42:24.

answer is as many as Alex Salmond and the SNP say they want. It seems

:42:25.:42:28.

that losing that referendum was the best thing that happened to the SNP.

:42:29.:42:32.

They may have preferred to have won and have an independent Scotland

:42:33.:42:35.

they have a foothold in Westminster. They have such a deeply entrenched

:42:36.:42:41.

in Scotland in Scotland that Labour have collapsed in Scotland another

:42:42.:42:44.

referendum is inevitable. I was surprised that Nicola Sturgeon

:42:45.:42:46.

announced there would be a referendum today. I thought the

:42:47.:42:52.

polls shouldn't there hadn't been a great up tick in independence, 38%.

:42:53.:42:56.

I thought it would take a bit more time. I think eventually you will

:42:57.:43:00.

win your life-long dream of an independent Scotland and a broken

:43:01.:43:04.

United Kingdom will be fulfilled. The forces pulling Scotland away,

:43:05.:43:08.

social, political, demographic from the rest of the country, the rest of

:43:09.:43:13.

England, are so strong and cannot be tolerated. Whether he gets the

:43:14.:43:18.

referendum or not, it might be ten years, but eventually Scotland is

:43:19.:43:22.

leaving, we better get used to it. You sir. Scotland have no plan for

:43:23.:43:28.

the currency, and no guarantee of being able to reenter the EU. You

:43:29.:43:33.

need a deficit down to 3% of GDP. You can ask the same question, you

:43:34.:43:38.

will get the same answer. You in the front. The prospect of the country

:43:39.:43:44.

being broken up with Scottish potential independence, does the

:43:45.:43:47.

panel think that referendums should be put to the English, the Welsh and

:43:48.:43:51.

the northernish Irish as to whether they want the United Kingdom to

:43:52.:43:56.

disintergrate? Serious implications if Scotland leaves the Union? Emily

:43:57.:44:01.

Thornberry? I want us to be United Kingdom. I think that we are a great

:44:02.:44:06.

country when we are united. I don't want us to splinter off. I think we

:44:07.:44:11.

are who we are because we stick together. And, I would do everything

:44:12.:44:15.

I can to to keep our country together. All right. I will move on.

:44:16.:44:21.

We only have 10 minutes left. Rebecca Reece, your question. Is the

:44:22.:44:27.

current Parliamentary Labour Party an effective opposition to the

:44:28.:44:31.

Government? Are they an effective opposition? No, it the short answer.

:44:32.:44:35.

In the last week it's changed. I have respect for Emily, she's in

:44:36.:44:38.

what she has done with these 170 questions. It's the first time under

:44:39.:44:42.

Jeremy Corbyn it looked like Labour is doing what it is meant to do.

:44:43.:44:46.

Labour has so many problems it's ridiculous. Your question may be

:44:47.:44:52.

motivated by a poll this week. In England where most marginal seats

:44:53.:44:57.

are, Labour is 25% behind. Over 65s, the most people likely to vote, 48%

:44:58.:45:01.

behind. No-one to the left of Tony Blair has won an election in Britain

:45:02.:45:06.

since 1976, right. If at the last election the problem was a left-wing

:45:07.:45:11.

leader who wasn't trusted with the economy,, having a more left-wing

:45:12.:45:14.

leader who is less trusted on the economy isn't necessarily going to

:45:15.:45:20.

get Labour elected. I believe that despite being in parliament since

:45:21.:45:24.

1983 and Emily has been in parliament 11 years this Labour

:45:25.:45:27.

movement and momentum don't believe in parliament. John McDonnell was

:45:28.:45:33.

asked if he achieved social change. He said three ways, on the streets,

:45:34.:45:35.

trade unions and there is parliament. He said don't expect

:45:36.:45:38.

change from parliament to come any time soon. If you think about it,

:45:39.:45:43.

the thing about Labour, what is interesting, they refer to David

:45:44.:45:48.

Miliband, lost under Ed Miliband and governed by Ralf Miliband. Who you

:45:49.:45:53.

guys may know. Wrote a back in 1969 calledkm parliamentary Socialism. I

:45:54.:46:01.

read it so you don't have to. If you want to achieve socialism you do it

:46:02.:46:05.

true the streets. Part of the reason Jeremy Corbyn is relaxed that 182 of

:46:06.:46:11.

his MPs say they have no confidence in him is because he doesn't care

:46:12.:46:16.

about achieving power. That is the main driving reason why they are no

:46:17.:46:19.

good in opposition right now. The question wasn't, can they become

:46:20.:46:32.

a Government, the question was, are they an effective opposition?

:46:33.:46:36.

Emily's provided opposition this week, she's been on Channel 4 and...

:46:37.:46:40.

I'll come to Emily in a moment. Alex Salmond? Labour haven't been an

:46:41.:46:44.

effective opposition and that's self-evident from the last year, but

:46:45.:46:49.

I rather agree. I think the Europeanish eye is going to put

:46:50.:46:52.

enormous pressure on the Government and we'll find out if Theresa May

:46:53.:46:58.

leads an effective Government. I'm not so sure about the idea that

:46:59.:47:06.

Jeremy Corbyn's so left-wing that people wouldn't respond to it. I

:47:07.:47:08.

mean, I don't think Jeremy's politics have been the problem, it's

:47:09.:47:14.

been the competence. It's been the lack of ability to lead in

:47:15.:47:19.

Parliament and if that can be changed I'm not certain that Labour

:47:20.:47:23.

couldn't provide a much, much better show than they are having. In terms

:47:24.:47:28.

of balance on politics, the SNP won 56 out of the 59 Westminster seats

:47:29.:47:32.

in Scotland, the Tory party won one and Labour won one. Now, when I

:47:33.:47:37.

started out in politics, I didn't think I'd ever see a situation when

:47:38.:47:40.

the Labour Party won just the wound seat in Scotland but you should

:47:41.:47:45.

perhaps think about this Damian, that Ukip have one seat in the UK

:47:46.:47:49.

and we are in a situation in Scotland where the party with one

:47:50.:47:52.

seat, the Tory party, actually is running the country on major

:47:53.:47:55.

decisions, so people should think about how they would feel if Ukip

:47:56.:47:58.

were currently in Government with one seat and then you will

:47:59.:48:02.

understand where Scotland is going. You in the front? We have all

:48:03.:48:07.

unanimously agreed that the Labour Party is riddled with divisions,

:48:08.:48:10.

does the panel think there is a possibility of a split? A split in

:48:11.:48:17.

the Labour Party? Emily Thornberry? The Labour Party is a coalition on

:48:18.:48:24.

the left, just like Please don't say... Coalition on the right. We

:48:25.:48:30.

have huge divisions. Oh. The next time we hear a Labour politician...

:48:31.:48:34.

Can I get a word in edgeways, please. Tell her to stop talking,

:48:35.:48:38.

it's nonsense, you have got nothing in common with them. Let her answer.

:48:39.:48:42.

We have tuitions and the Tories have divisions and unlike the Tories who

:48:43.:48:45.

fight their battles in closed rooms, we fight in the press. You can see

:48:46.:48:50.

we fight in the press. With we supposed to be impressed by that? .

:48:51.:48:54.

It's not impressive and it has to stop because actually you know what

:48:55.:48:59.

unites us is so much more than what divides us. This's untry. We are a

:49:00.:49:04.

divided country. It's important we hold this Government to account.

:49:05.:49:09.

It's outrageous the way in which they have not had regional economic

:49:10.:49:13.

policies and way they have not been investing in some of the poorer

:49:14.:49:16.

communities up and down this country and they have essentially turned

:49:17.:49:20.

their back on them. We are a divided country in terms of those who're

:49:21.:49:24.

doing badly out of this Government, they're doing much worse. We looked

:49:25.:49:28.

today at the results in the Health Service and what is happening there

:49:29.:49:32.

and the way in which on all the stats, the Health Service is in a

:49:33.:49:36.

much worse place... What has this to do with you being an effective

:49:37.:49:39.

opposition? APPLAUSE.

:49:40.:49:42.

OK, so one of the things that one has to do as an opposition is point

:49:43.:49:47.

these things out, despite the barracking from the Daily Mail or

:49:48.:49:49.

anywhere else, and we have to be true to what it is we stand up for

:49:50.:49:54.

and we have to make clear there is an alternative because there is one

:49:55.:49:57.

and Labour can be that. What, as I say, we have some differences, of

:49:58.:50:01.

course we do, but I'll tell you what, it's nothing compared to the

:50:02.:50:04.

differences you are about to see when it comes to Brexit and the

:50:05.:50:09.

party. No, there are arguments that we have, but what we have to do at

:50:10.:50:13.

this stage is pull together and remember what it is that we have in

:50:14.:50:18.

common and we can be and we must be an effective opposition to this

:50:19.:50:26.

appalling... Enough, enough. The man in charge of Brexit, your Brexit

:50:27.:50:30.

Shadow secretary, himself said you can't offer effective opposition

:50:31.:50:34.

without a change of leader, so how can you offer that? Can I just say,

:50:35.:50:40.

I mean Jeremy has the advantage of being a good and decent man. And he

:50:41.:50:43.

is a good and decent man. APPLAUSE.

:50:44.:50:48.

And what we need to do is, the Labour Party is a collective

:50:49.:50:52.

endeavour, it's not one person, we are in fact the largest political

:50:53.:50:58.

party in Western Europe. We are now nearly 600,000-strong. We are a very

:50:59.:51:03.

large and Democratic Party and we need to make sure that the

:51:04.:51:07.

Parliamentary Labour Party steps up, pulls together and actually puts

:51:08.:51:10.

forward the arguments because there are a huge number of arguments and

:51:11.:51:14.

there is an alternative and we need to get on with our job.

:51:15.:51:19.

APPLAUSE. OK, let's hear from someone about

:51:20.:51:24.

whether they think Labour is an effective opposition? You? Jeremy

:51:25.:51:29.

Corbyn talks about loyalty and I'm sorry, but over the 30 years of his

:51:30.:51:34.

career, he's shown complete disloyalty to Labour because he

:51:35.:51:42.

voted against the whip 500 times was it, so where is this professionalism

:51:43.:51:48.

and loyalty that we are meant to show to Corbyn? You? I want all the

:51:49.:51:53.

parties to care more about what's going to be happening in Europe and

:51:54.:51:58.

our relationship with Europe whatever the relationship, rather

:51:59.:52:01.

than this in-fighting between parties because so many more

:52:02.:52:04.

important issues are at stake. They need to spend time and energy

:52:05.:52:09.

sorting that problem out than fighting and other referendums.

:52:10.:52:15.

Rebecca, what do you think? You asked the question? As a member of

:52:16.:52:19.

the Labour Party, I feel quite let down by the Parliamentary Labour

:52:20.:52:24.

Party and I think large parts of the public should as well because the

:52:25.:52:28.

resignations by the Shadow Cabinet after Brexit real hi allowed the

:52:29.:52:32.

Conservative Party to hide their own internal divisions and they've got

:52:33.:52:35.

their own huge divisions over Brexit but all that's being shown are

:52:36.:52:37.

Labour's divisions. APPLAUSE.

:52:38.:52:43.

Damian Green? I was in opposition when the Tory party was in a bad

:52:44.:52:47.

place in the early years of this century. Nothing is like the despair

:52:48.:52:54.

on the Labour benches now. Trust me, Labour's in a much worse place. I

:52:55.:53:00.

want to pick up one point, part of the sort of Labour Hymnsheet that

:53:01.:53:04.

the Tories are much more divided than we are. It's demonstrably not

:53:05.:53:10.

true. People on either side of the referendum are now sitting on

:53:11.:53:12.

Cabinet. I'm in Cabinet with Liam Fox and David Davis and we are

:53:13.:53:17.

arguing a future about how we can get the best from the Brexit vote.

:53:18.:53:23.

You can't agree. We will agree. The point is, we are sitting in Cabinet

:53:24.:53:27.

together. Your Shadow Cabinet won't have it because they won't serve in

:53:28.:53:33.

it. Hilary Benn, Yvette Cooper, Chuka Umunna. You have got people

:53:34.:53:37.

that have been Kimmed out? We've got nobody... Nicky Morgan. Nobody who

:53:38.:53:44.

was asked to serve who refused. They just kicked them out. How many

:53:45.:53:50.

people did you sack? Ten? Emily, apart from you, most of the talented

:53:51.:53:56.

Labour politicians in Britain are refusing to serve in Jeremy

:53:57.:54:01.

Corbyn's... Boris Johnson was there ready and Michael Gove popped up and

:54:02.:54:05.

said I'm not backing him any more, he's unfit. Boris is... I'm in the

:54:06.:54:08.

Cabinet. APPLAUSE.

:54:09.:54:14.

ALL SPEAK AT ONCE. Michael Gove isn't in the Cabinet.

:54:15.:54:19.

We have a united Cabinet that represents all views. Most of the

:54:20.:54:24.

talented Labour politicians won't even serve under Jeremy Corbyn and

:54:25.:54:28.

unless and until you get talented people on board, I'm afraid you will

:54:29.:54:30.

continue to be facing the opposition.

:54:31.:54:36.

You with the spectacles on? Given the influence that momentum appears

:54:37.:54:41.

to have within the Labour Party, has too much momentum been generated so

:54:42.:54:45.

that it's now out of control? Isabelle Oakeshott? Emmy goes on

:54:46.:54:50.

about Jeremy being a good, decent man. My question is, is he

:54:51.:54:57.

honourable? Is it honourable to remain leader when you can't read

:54:58.:55:03.

your own Parliamentary party. If you can't head your own party, you

:55:04.:55:07.

cannot be an effective opposition. The honourable thing would have been

:55:08.:55:10.

for him to quit a very long time ago.

:55:11.:55:15.

APPLAUSE. Can you pick up on his point about

:55:16.:55:22.

Momentum? Just to repeat the question. Given the influence that

:55:23.:55:28.

Momentum appears to have, is it now that too much momentum has been

:55:29.:55:31.

generated so that it's now out of control? Absolutely because Momentum

:55:32.:55:35.

doesn't represent the views of the majority of Labour MPs and the

:55:36.:55:39.

result is that those Labour MPs are totally out of sync with the party

:55:40.:55:43.

members and cannot provide an effect I opposition and that is untenable

:55:44.:55:50.

-- effective opposition. The Labour MPs should be more in tune with the

:55:51.:55:55.

Labour membership. You are applauding, are you a Momentum

:55:56.:55:59.

supporter, Sir? Can you explain? Yes. Jeremy's just received his

:56:00.:56:07.

second landslide victory. Coming back to what Isabelle says, yes, 192

:56:08.:56:14.

MPs resigned. He's just been voted in by 300,000 people to be leader of

:56:15.:56:20.

the party. That is a mandate. And coming back to what the lady said a

:56:21.:56:26.

minute ago about disloyalty and him voting against the whip, he voted

:56:27.:56:31.

against PFI, he voted against student tuition fees, he voted

:56:32.:56:35.

against the Iraq war. On every one of those if you go back through

:56:36.:56:40.

history, the that joort, if not all, he's been on the right side of

:56:41.:56:48.

history -- the majority. Sorry I interrupted you earlier.

:56:49.:56:54.

It's just not true to say that what unites you is greater than what

:56:55.:56:57.

divides you. It's not true. A lot of people who call themselves Labour

:56:58.:56:59.

moderates came into politics because they want to save the reformed

:57:00.:57:07.

capital it. . Jeremy Corbyn wants to replace... People have been miscast

:57:08.:57:13.

in the media. It's completely in a different place politically to the

:57:14.:57:16.

Parliamentary Labour Party. You have interrupted me, I'm interrupting you

:57:17.:57:19.

because you are just talking nonsense here. Of course people

:57:20.:57:24.

stand for Parliament who're a part of the Parliamentary democracy we

:57:25.:57:28.

believe in a form of capitalism which is ameliorated by having an

:57:29.:57:33.

economy which is a mixed economy. We believe in the state, we believe in

:57:34.:57:37.

making sure that we have a strong country but we look after the poor

:57:38.:57:41.

and the weak and, of course, we are a united country. That is what pulls

:57:42.:57:47.

us together. The united party you meant, not a united country? We lead

:57:48.:57:53.

a united country around a party. I have to stop you there. Our hour is

:57:54.:57:55.

up. We're in Hartlepool next week

:57:56.:58:01.

with former Greek finance minster Yanis Varoufakis,

:58:02.:58:03.

the man who once owned the Daily Telegraph Conrad Black

:58:04.:58:06.

and Ken Clarke for the Tories. The following week

:58:07.:58:10.

we'll be in Gloucester. Come and join us, Hartlepool

:58:11.:58:14.

or Gloucester, go to our website, If you are listening tonight

:58:15.:58:17.

on Radio 5Live, the debate goes My thanks to all our panel here and

:58:18.:58:33.

to all of you who came to this superb museum at the Royal Air Force

:58:34.:58:38.

in Hendon. Until next week on Question Time, good night.

:58:39.:58:49.

David Dimbleby presents topical debate from the RAF Museum in London. On the panel are Conservative work and pensions secretary Damian Green MP, Labour's shadow foreign secretary Emily Thornberry MP, former SNP leader Alex Salmond MP, editor-at-large of the Independent Amol Rajan and the Daily Mail's political-editor-at-large Isabel Oakeshott.


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