03/09/2014 Scotland 2014

Tonight, the family of a 20-year-old Glasgow

woman who has joined the jihad in Syria say they feel betrayed.

Aqsa Mahmood disappeared from her Glasgow home in November.

Today her parents said they were horrified to discover that she had

travelled to Syria to marry an Islamic State fighter.

The Labour MP Douglas Alexander gives us his take on whether there

will be better off if they vote no. And have you read any

of the political leaflets coming Do you think they are just full

of bluff bluster and lies? Wait until you see what

politicians used to push The parents of Aqsa Mahmood appeared

in public today to say they were horrified when they learned she had

become what they called a bedroom radical. Their daughter is believed

to have made comments on social media calling on people in Britain

to repeat terrorist atrocities seen in Woolwich, Texas and Boston. They

said she had all the chances and freedoms in life and that if this

could happen to their family it could happen to anyone. Julie

Peacock was at the family's press Her mother 's anguish was plain to

see. They cannot believe that they're bright, loving daughter Aqsa

could become radicalised and join the terrorist group IS in Syria.

Their lawyer made a statement. Aqsa was always a very sweet,

peaceful and intelligent child who was inquisitive about everything. We

had high hopes for her and would have loved her to become a doctor

and save lives. Brought up in a home they described

as happy and full of affection, they had no why did that in her bedroom

she was posting tweets that celebrated terrorist attacks.

Ices are killing in the name of our religion and claiming to defend the

weak. -- IS. But in helping them, she is helping those committing

genocide. The parents had just as many

questions to ask themselves. There is no smoking gun, no family

member or fundamentalist preacher who can be blamed for her

radicalisation. We have spent months as King ourselves the question

whether we could have done better and we still -- asking ourselves

whether she we could have done better and there is no easy answer.

The one thing that everyone agrees on is that radicalisation is an

international problem that crosses all borders. So what is the best way

to tackle it? One think tank thinks that the UK's intelligence service

plays and crucial role in stopping people from being radicalised.

They have traffic on the ground in Syria, seeing who is sending

messages to who. They will very soon have a comprehensive understanding

of how that traffic is operating. For Scotland to have access to that

is critical in the fight against terrorism.

But with terrorist groups using social media to reach a bigger

audience than ever before, nations are facing a changing battle ground

and countries cannot rely on their might to solve the problem.

I think that it has shown is that for all the economic wealth, the

powers have natural bowl -- have little power to manage this. We also

need to pay attention to matters of integration. Engaging with the wider

community. That is a difficult issue, because we have been talking

about this since 9/11. There has been a lot of debate and

international energy channelled into working out what the best way

forward is. I am afraid that I do not think that we are closer to

finding an answer to that. But with extremist groups still

drawing any young British recruits, finding an answer is as pressing as

ever. With me in the studio, the solicitor

representing Aqsa - Aamer Anwar. The parents have been racking their

brains to try and work out how she was indoctrinated. What can any

parent to do? They could have done nothing. She

was offered all the chances in life. She was given the best

education that money could buy. She was known as a quiet and

intelligence girl. She was -- they did not notice the radicalisation.

They became increasingly concerned over the last few months, and it was

Syria that seem to be the tipping point. She was angry and

frustrated, as many young people and people in the Muslim community are,

people in Scotland as well. That is the single issue that they can see

as responsible for her radicalisation.

So if other parents or teachers noticed someone getting more and

more angry and thought that they were getting radicalised, who can

they talk to? I think that they need to talk to

the individual first, especially if they are a child or young person.

There is a concern that with the present political climate, the mass

hysteria that meets these cases, that there is a climate of fear.

Young people who have questions are scared to ask them. Families are

scared to approach the parities, because they are scared that their

doors will be hit down and they will be dragged out by counterterrorist

authorities. The best way is intelligence in the community, and

those bridges were unfortunately destroyed. That is what the security

services do not have a solution. If you go to the authorities and

arrests are made, then trust is destroyed. If you do not go to them

and then they are unable to take action, then you see what has

happened to Aqsa Mahmood. Everyone in the community says that

if you suspect that your child or a member of your family is going to go

abroad to join at jihadist group, then of course. People are asking if

Aqsa Mahmood might be prosecuted if she returns. She may well be

prosecuted, it is up to the prosecution services to decide that.

But what she will face here is much better than being blown up in Syria.

Both sides in the referendum campaign say they want a fairer,

more equal society - but what's the best way to achieve it? In an

independent Scotland or by staying within the UK? In the first of two

authored films looking at working people and social justice, Better

Together's Douglas Alexander gives his own personal view, and explains

why he believes standing together is the best way to tackle inequality.

This is Renfrewshire, the community that I grew up with and represent in

Parliament. We boast a proud industrial history. It is also one

of the many areas across the United Kingdom where people are suffering

because of conservative economic policies.

Three generations of my family. They took the house from me.

When we get into office, we will abolish the bedroom tax 's.

There are welfare sanctions. I wish that things would change.

We need change, but in my view it does not mean that we have to change

our passports. The Nationalists, their purpose and

politics is to set up a separate state. For me, for millions of

others across Scotland, our first priority is to tackle poverty and

inequality and look after working people.

It was the fight against inequality and social justice that brought me

into politics. It is finally over. The power

production in Scotland has ceased. I was only a teenager when the car

plant closed, and it was not just here. They're with the shipyards in

the North of England, the coal mines in the West valleys. People were

suffering across the UK. Now the plant is a retail park. But when it

closed, I saw the parents of my classmates out of work and

struggling. It was that revulsion at mass employment that inspired me to

join the Labour Party. 30 years on, I still think that

solidarity is the best means by which to achieve social justice --

much social justice. The Labour Party has understood that

unity is strength. It is nonsense for the Nationalists to suggest that

everyone south of the border is a posterity believing Tory. -- at

cutting costs. You worked in the credit union. What

has that experience taught you? The work I do, the advantages of

spreading financial risk. I can see what happens on a daily basis,

particularly with people who have the most to lose from the risks of

independence. These are people who do not have the financial

wherewithal to move their money offshore. I want to make sure that

people with the least in Scotland are protected. That is what we have

got right now. Alison's experience shows us how

standing together can help us manage our risk. But I believe that staying

within the United Kingdom is also a choice that reflects our values. I

have come to meet a Church of Scotland minister and a Chief

Executive of an anti-poverty charity. For him, the message of

nothing by neighbour should not end at the border. -- of loving your

neighbour. The same experience is felt not just

in Scotland, but in Wales and Ireland and England. What would we

be saying to those people if we said that we are better than being fairer

than pencil we walked away? What have your experiences with the

poor taught to? What would you say about walking away from the United

Kingdom? The extraordinary thing that I have

heard is that we would be richer by walking away. We would be making our

neighbours poorer, therefore. I do not think that those are good

values. Sport is one area where people have

often stood against each other rather than side-by-side. This man

spent four decades as a football commentator.

I was way up here at the top. He is passionate about Scotland, but

believes that we should stand together with working people across

the United Kingdom, like those that he met as a young man in England.

I realise that I was bonding with these Englishmen with different

accents from me, even more so than some of my colleagues north of the

border. I thought to myself, this shows that the values I have got

were not parochial values. They work universal values. They could be

replicated anywhere in the United Kingdom.

What does that mean as you look ahead to the choice that the Scots

face on the 18th? I have wept for Scotland. I have had

to watch them being beaten, I have had triumphs, but I have been

disappointed sometimes. I am voting for my heart as well as my head. I

have empathy with everyone that I have met outside of Scotland who

thinks the way that I think. It is that working class feeling

that the yes campaign would have us give up. We do not have do turn our

backs on our neighbours. My politics is about working class

people standing together for fairness and equality. On the 18th

of September, I will be voting for a principled solidarity that shares

the risks and saying no thanks to walking away from our friends,

families and colleagues across these islands.

Douglas joins me now in the studio, with Humza Yousaf, Minister for

We have heard what Douglas has to say, so I will come to you first. If

Scotland would be a richer country, he says that this would make our

neighbours poorer, and that are not good social values?

We have heard about solidarity with Scott 's -- Scotland, or Leeds, all

Wales. But I will stand in solid are T with people -- Solidarity trade

with people across the world. It does not matter to be part of the

UK, to have a social justice agenda, abolishing the bedroom tax

or tax credits or winter fuel allowance. The sad thing about what

Douglas is talking about, we have one opportunity to do that. He would

rather risk a Labour government that is wanting to cut costs, or a Tory

government, rather than taking the costs in his own hands. If they were

elected by the Scottish people, they would be able to act in favour of

the Scottish people here. Dew shares so many ideals. You want

to abolish the bedroom tax. Why don't you want to see them happen in

Scotland sooner? If you want to get away from this territory, he would

not want an extra ?6 billion of cuts in she, which is what would be

necessary to deal with the large deficit. He did his best, but if

Scotland vote yes in September, we will be walking away not just from

the ideal of solidarity, but the practice of solidarity, because we

share risks, rewards and practices. We have a welfare system based not

on nationality, but needs. We have built this together, the health

services, and established a minimum wage. If we were instead to see more

competition for the war wages, lower terms and conditions and taxes, the

first redistribution of policy in the Scottish Government, is actually

an immediate 3p tax cut for the richest corporations, and it would

be against the interests of working people. That is true. You are

talking about cutting corporation tax, not putting the top level of

income tax up. It is only cutting tax for the big corporations. I just

gave you three examples. We would stop the abolition of disability

living allowance is, which will affect 100,000 disabled people. Hold

on. I didn't interrupt you. Afford me that same courtesy. That is three

things we would do. Douglas talks about sharing resources. Before I

came here, I was less than a mile down the road and the road a

government venue where there is a food bank. But we asked the tens of

thousands of people queueing at food bags whether they feel the social

justice? -- food bags. What redistribution of taxes to you

propose in an independent Scotland? Of course these policies would help

the social fabric of society. Politics is about our priorities,

which is to spend money on social services. You have to tell us where

that money will come from. Other any redistribution of taxes in that

plane? We are choosing to spend that money on things like protecting the

NHS. That tells you where you are spending it, not one where it is

coming from. We don't want to spend money on a renewed Trident. Politics

are one thing. It is the priorities of where you choose his own money,

and we want to spend it on the nuclear -- on the fabric of this

country, not nuclear weapons. The mac Alex Salmond has spent that

money on the cost of establishing a separate state, and Nicola Sturgeon

has a ready spend that money twice in relation to childcare. That is

not a compelling argument. Secondly, there is one redistribution policy

in the White Paper, which is a immediate tax cut on the richest

corporations of 3p. We support a bank deposit bonus. Take it from the

richer banks and use it to provide a compulsory job for the young people

in my committee. It is opposed by the Scottish National Party. Young

people with independents will have the greatest opportunity. The EU

gives a constitutional guarantee. Why would you get a anchor pots-mac

bonus to find it? -- bank are pots-mac bonus. We have already

given a commitment to abolish the bedroom tax. The money raised in

Scotland should be spent in Scotland, it should be spent on

pensions and the disabled. It was a bed chance but by choice that we

could lift 100,000 Scottish children out of poverty. We want a top rate

of tax of 15p for those earning more than ?100,000 a year. Why would you

oppose that? The SNP held a debate, which were absent from, when it came

to the abolition of that tax. When Gordon Brown abolished tax, you were

absent. I can't take lectures from Douglas Alexander. Yes or no? Do you

support this tax? We said we would explore all tax options in 2016. It

makes sense to look at where the finances are on the Dave

independents and make sure we spend that money raised in Scotland on the

poorest in Scotland. -- on the day of independence. We will have to

leave it there. We will hear from Jim Sillars next week.

How many election leaflets have you had through the door from Better

Do you carefully consider the points they put forward, or does another

barrage of claim and counter-claim send it straight to the recycling?

Before the internet age, leaflets were an important source

These leaflets they have appeared through your letterbox. They are

designed to help you make up your bite with facts. However, there are

facts agreed to yes, and according to Better Together. -- make up your

mind. I have come here to see if I can find anyone who is able to

unscramble these facts. Have you had these through your door? I have had

both types of literature through my door. What you think? Will I find it

confusing. I haven't really read them. I don't know who is telling

the truth. The information Alex Salmond has given in these leaflets,

as far as I'm concerned, is not factual. Because they present as

facts? But so do the other side. To use the these facts are right? I

don't believe anything the Yes campaign say. It doesn't matter what

they put through the door, you won't change your mind? I'm still voting

yes. I'm afraid I've put them in the recycling bin. Most people didn't

have recycling bins when these leaflets were put through letter

boxes ahead of the referendum on whether Scotland should have its own

assembly. Leaflets are an established four of political

campaigning, but how have they changed over the years? If

politicians today are accused of scaremongering, take a look at this.

Warning! This referendum is dangerous! Here is another one. The

menace of separation. And on the other side, if Scotland says no, we

will never be taken seriously again. Scotland will be universally

ridiculed, a laughing stock. Since the invention of the printing press,

leaflets have been used to get political messages across. But have

they lost their relevance since the invention of social media? I found

this one was printed on my father pots-mac printing company. In 1979,

multicoloured renting was considered extravagant. -- multicoloured

printing. This would've been a standard layout for the technology

of the time. The other one with the full-colour images, the time and

cost involved at that point in time would have been astronomical. So

that was a much more expensive and bigger printing budget? Ethnically.

It may have paid off. Scotland did not go to semi. -- absolutely. --

Scotland did not get its assembly. Have you made up your mind? No.

Maybe you should read these? Maybe I should. Maybe I will. Ultimately,

today pots-mac points are remarkably similar to those on the hysterical

leaflets. But nobody has told us his facts are more factual than the

others. Joining us to talk to the rest of today pots-mac news

Now joining us to talk through the days news, Labour blogger

and solicitor Ian Smart, and Green Yes campaigner Sarah Beattie-Smith.

the Prime Minister was asked why he was running away from the debate.

Earlier, the Prime Minister gave a commitment on Scottish television to

take part in a programme with undecided voters before the

referendum. Will he be doing that, or running away just as he ran away

from the First Minister in a debate? On the television programme, I

offered them a date, and format, but they seem to run away themselves,

which is a great beauty. STV say that the possibility of a referendum

debate is still possible. They tweeted today that it is still a

possibility. There is an argument over editorial the Prime Minister

wants to have an interview where they're asking questions, or just

undecided voters. For Better Together, it is not helpful that

David Cameron can never quite get it right on Scotland. This is about the

the format of a television programme. There is always

negotiation between politicians and TV programmes about the format. The

BBC debate nearly happened because Alex Salmond was not happy with the

original format. Any people think the BBC gave into easily. We can't

comment on that obviously. These things happen. Whether this happens

with David Cameron, one thing I think is important is there is an

assumption that there are no Tories in Scotland. There are more than you

think, and they are going to vote in the polls. On this occasion, a

common cause might not be such a bad thing. Will it help Better Together

if David Cameron will appear on the programme? I figure will be a huge

boost to the Yes campaign. We heard him to the CBI conference, preaching

to the already converted, but he won't speak to undecided voters, and

particularly not to yes voters. He won't debate with Alex Salmond.

Nicola Sturgeon... He is a bit of a control freak. He wants to come in

on his own platform and run the show. I think it is important for

media standards that STV hold its own on this, and they maintain that

editorial neutrality. Whenever he comes to Scotland, you can see the

yes polls go up. He is welcome to come back any time. One former Prime

Minister we haven't seen dive into the referendum campaign is Tony

Blair. He made every appearance when he won four and the rest of the

year. He has established a large

charitable foundation and spent a lot of time doing charitable work.

Does that not count as being a global philanthropist? I could

figure of others who may be more worthy. I do wonder whether... I

didn't even know Gigi was still being published. It is a hugely

successful publicity stunt for them. Is he under fairly vilified? He may

well do a lot of charity work, but so do a lot of millionaires. For the

man who took this to a war in Iraq and is apparently a Middle East

peace envoy, and we have seen what is going on Gaza, the man who

carried on Thatcher pots-mac legacy, he looks the same as every other

party in Westminster. For him to be awarded as a philanthropist is

beyond irony. It is almost shameful. Thank you both very much for coming

in to join us. That is it from us. Thank you for watching the

programme. I will be back at the same time tomorrow night. Join me

then. Have a good night. Goodbye.