10/11/2015 Scotland 2015

Police Scotland comes under yet more pressure,

this time on its inadequate call-handling system.

On tonight's programme: A damning report in the wake of the M9 crash

deaths concludes that oversight of the new police call-handling

I'll be asking the Justice Secretary who should be held to account.

And, should tenant farmers facing eviction be given

An investigation into failures with Police Scotland's

new national call-handling system has found a series of weaknesses.

The police inspectorate raised concern about staffing levels

at call centres, and said some workers

had been put under high levels of pressure.

The report came after police took three days to investigate

Andrew Black reports. led to the deaths of two people.

everyone expects our emergency services to be there for us in times

of need. But, what happens when the system fails? The system failed John

Yuill and Lamara Bell. In July, they were in a car crash on the M9.

Police did not investigate a report about the incident, for three days.

John Yuill was found dead at the scene, and Lamara Bell later died in

hospital. Today, report by the police Inspectorate criticised the

roll-out of Police Scotland's new call handling system. The brother of

Lamara Bell said he hoped action would now be taken. I just want to

see that there is change and that this can never happen again. It is

good that this report has come out and has said that there are problems

and things that need to be done, and hopefully, these will get put into

place and we will start seeing changes. Today's report said that

staffing levels at Bilston Glen, where the call regarding the M9

crash was received were insufficient. They found examples of

call handlers being put under pressure to end calls quickly. And

it said there were questions over the stability of the call centre

computer systems. What we found in terms of the call handling in

particular was pressure from Police Scotland to meet deadlines and

productivity to make sure that calls were answered quickly. We made a

number of recommendations in the report to Police Scotland and the

Scottish police authority to improve the way that they manage change. For

the organisation representing rank and file police officers, the

findings in the report came as little surprise. We have been saying

for some time that the drive to save money has resulted in a degrading of

service and that has been shown to be the case today. Meanwhile, Police

Scotland said it would now take action. Today's report recognises

that there have been challenges and issues for us and that we have made

progress in meeting those challenges. We will go on to

implement all of the recommendations in the report from HMICS. A separate

inquiry when a police investigations and review commissioner specifically

into the M9 crash which claimed two lives is ongoing.

Shortly before we came on air Michael Matheson

the Justice Secretary came into the studio.

This report lays bare the way the new national call handling system

was rolled out, too fast, too few staff. Who is accountable for that?

The purpose behind this particular report was to provide us with

assurance around the way police, and was taking forward the call handling

arrangements put in place with the reform of call handling throughout

Scotland. Clearly, there was a problem with call handling. Whose

responsibility is that? The report highlights that from about October,

November last year, to March, April of this year, there were challenges

around with how they work coping with additional calls coming in as a

result of the closure of sterling and claim bosses call centres. And

the levels of staffing dealing with that additional workload coming into

those particular call centres. That is something that you were warned

about it in March. Willie Rennie was warning about problems with the

Bilston Glen call centre saying that they were struggling to cope, back

then. Why didn't you address that? Towards the end of March, we raised

it with the Chief Constable and Deputy Chief Constable, the policy

and also the Assistant Chief Constable about the issues round

call handling matters. They try to identify exactly what the problems

were, to then take action in order to address them. As the report

highlights, as a result of those actions we improve the situation and

stabilise the way that they were dealing with calls. Dealing with

them much more effectively. When these concerns were raised by Willie

Rennie, Police Scotland denied that there were any problems. You must be

pretty cross that you were misled by the police on that. One of the

things the report highlights is aware that information has been

excavated through Police Scotland and they have identified problems.

That is something that Police Scotland need to address as part of

the 30 recommendations in this report, to have better management

and quality assurance of the way in which they take forward this type of

reform within the service. That is why it is essential that these

recommendations are fully implemented to make sure that the

issues identified by HMICS in this report are not repeated in any

measures Police Scotland are taking forward with their call handling

system. You seem to have been misled by police Scotland after Lamara Bell

and John Yuill were found after the crash because they suggested that

they had been no systemic failure, but we know now from this report

that systemic failures were rife. It is important to recognise that the

HMICS report doesn't look into the particular circumstances around the

M9 report. We can see what the problems were, with call handling.

That is being investigated by the police investigations and review

commissioner and it is limited what I can say about that because it is

being investigated by the Crown Office. The report identifies

improvements Police Scotland have put in place to deal with calls that

come into the command and control centres, and alongside that to

provide assurances about the way that Police Scotland is dealing with

these calls as a result of the audit which HMICS has taken. It gives us a

level of assurance around how the police are dealing with these calls.

We need to make sure that the recommendations are fully

implemented, to make sure that we have a further reassuring is we need

before any further training is implemented in future. If Stephen

Howes had not been resigned already, wouldn't you be calling for his

resignation? There are lessons to be learned for Police Scotland in how

they manage this area of reform. Would you be calling him to account

on this? Stephen Howes has stepped down as Chief Constable and we

should accept that. He will finish up at the end of this month. It was

on his watch. We need to make sure that the oversight and the way in

which there is external oversight of these types of changes, are much

more robust, so the role that the Scottish police authority has in

making sure that they are analysing and looking at these issues

critically, that is why the Scottish police authority has said it will

provide a gateway review mechanism for these types of reforms to make

sure that there was external input and validation of that before any

changes take place in future. Now, do the Scottish Government's

plans for land reform go far enough? Campaigners gathered at Holyrood

today to demand more protection It comes

as one farmer faces eviction in two weeks time after more than 20

years farming land in East Lothian. It has been this way for centuries.

And, through generations. Landowners leasing acres to tenant farmers who

make their living from the land. Over the years, legislation has

sought to offer protection to tenant farmers but a series of cases lately

have brought the issue to light again. And restored art farms 500

acres in East Lothian. He has been here since 1993. Investing and

growing his business. He thought it would secure a long-term future, but

at the end of this month, he, his wife and children will have to

leave. It is totally devastating. We have spent 22 years here. Building

the place up and making it a home. This chap -- it is just absolutely

gutting to have to leave. He believed legislation brought in in

2003 would give them security of tenure, but two years ago, the law

was made ineffective and his landlord wants the land back. The

trust has said that it would like to farm the land in hand itself and

that is their prerogative. It is their land, it is their prerogative.

They entered into the Tennessee with the rain free will and that is their

decision. Several other farmers now face eviction because of this

defective law. You have sons who have returned home in the

expectation that there was security for them, that they could plan as a

family for the future, so you now have sons with businesses with their

fathers, and some of them have moved onto the next generation, so there

is a profound human aspect to this position, whereby they as families

do not know what the future holds for them. Today, land reform

campaigners gather that Parliament, calling on the government to step

in. We should address this as a matter of urgency given that the

date is approaching fast, to see how we can help him because we don't

want that, and that is why we want to do all we can to help him. Land

reform is on the difficult -- political agenda, with a bill going

through Parliament at the moment, but many here today think that it

will not go far enough. The campaign here today don't think that the

government's new land reform proposals are radical and if and

they say that more needs to be done to protect them in farmers in huge,

so that situations like Andrew's can't happen again. We need

something like a restricted right to buy for tenant farmers, Abbot like

crofters got, and it might apply to only 100 acres, but it means that

the cottage or House that they are living in is something that they

could own and the farms, things close to the House, things that they

can own, and perhaps raise money against. Back on the farm in East

Lothian, the sheep still need tending. And restored art can only

hope for some compensation so that he can start again. The trust says

that it is willing to discuss that with him and are willing to be

flexible on when he can leave the farm cottage.

I'm joined now by David Johnstone, chairman of Scottish Land

and Estates Scotland, the body representing

And, in Inverness is Angus McCall, chairman of the Scottish Tenant

What do you think should happen in the case of Andrew Stoddart? He is

in a difficult position. Legally he has to be out of the farm by the

28th of November. The Government has said it will assist others are

stepping in to give him a hand. We need to make sure that if he cannot

stay in the farm he is able to relocate somewhere else. He must get

the compensation due to him for all of the investment in the farm. At

the end of the day this is due to a mistake made by the Government back

in 2003. He will be due some sort of compensation by the Government. This

defective legislation has caused a bit of a mess. What do you think of

the response of the Scottish Government? So far it has been slow.

We have known since 2013 that they will have two sort out the problems

regarding these tenancies. They were encouraged to enter into mediation

which has been slow to happen. It has gathered pace in recent weeks

but not enough was done early enough to prevent the situation we are in

now. This raises broader issues about the

right to buy for example. Should tenant farmers have the right to buy

the land that they work? The question of a right to buy has been

on the political horizon for the last 15 years. In many circumstances

there is a very compelling case by tenants should be able to buy their

farms to give them security and collateral against which to borrow.

And in many cases, particularly where you have a collection of

tenants, and a landlord who has not of the pathetic, there is every

reason why there should be some conditional right to buy. When you

see somebody being pushed off their land, the land they have worked for

20 years, I do comfortable with that? Do you think that is

appropriate? What we have here is the need for a vibrant tenancy

sector. We need more land to come into the tenanted sector. If we are

going to encourage more landlords to release land to that sector they

have two be confident that they are going to be honoured for the full

length of that Agreement. An Agreement in place for a fixed

period of time, 15 years, is now looked as a vehicle, that will not

encourage more people to go into the market. The mess over the previous

defective legislation is not going to encourage the Scottish Government

to be more radical land reform plans now, is it? Having been around in

2003 when the act went to, there was not the same amount of scrutiny with

the legislation as is happening at the moment. I am confident that all

the legislation proposed in the current Bill is fully up to speed as

far as compliance with ECHR. There is also concern about the property

rights of landowners. But it must not be forgotten that they are not

the only people that have rights and tenant farmers have property rights

as well because they have well established interest in the land.

Any legislation has got to be a balance of rights between the two

groups of people. I would be confident that the current Bill will

be compliant. This is one of the reasons why it is being criticised

for not being very radical because the Government are seeing it as a

stepping stone to further land reform down the road and they do not

want to get it wrong. Scotland's economy is going

through a bumpy patch. Yesterday we learned

of a slight improvement in output from private firms,

but growth is still very weak and What's new about this is that

the Scottish economy appears to be diverging from the rest of Britain,

and not in a good way. Here's our business

and economy editor, Douglas Fraser. In the past couple of decades of

Scotland has come a long way to catching up with the rest of the UK.

The north side dividers for the English. Growth, income, employment

levels, Scotland was as good as the UK average and in some ways the best

performer outside of London and the south-east. In recent months however

an appointment in Scotland is above the UK average, job creation side of

the border has been stronger. Growth is lagging far behind the rest of

the country. The freezer of Al and Institute reduced its forecast from

2.5% to less than 2%. If it were not for certain projects we could

already be in recession. More private firms reported in eyes but

last month. But that fill the month before. Manufacturing continues to

contract. Another survey of manufacturers emphasised that

problem. That said that there is deep pessimism. A lot is to do with

the price of oil which has stayed low longer than was expected. Others

who find energy prices lower should have more money in their pockets but

they seemed reluctant to spend it. How much of the problems in the oil

and gas sector to blame for the wider problems in the Scottish

economy? If you are looking at the

divergences between Scotland and the rest of the UK that is probably the

best explain because it is a bigger part of the Scottish economy. It is

distinctive about the Scottish economy. Yes, there are jobs and

east of England dependent on oil and gas but Scotland has the

concentration near. A lot of the countries operating -- lot of

companies operating in that sector will to hold onto trained staff back

in January when the place of a barrel hit $45. There was an

expectation that by now the place would have come up. These are global

forces at work and that has not worked out that we. The place

remains very low. Demand is low from Asia and China in particular. Saying

that that is going to be a sustained period of low prices, the North Sea

is an expensive place to work. Companies are now having to shed

workers and slash costs and investment.

Should cheaper energy not boost other parts of the economy? Yes.

Other parts of the UK, those that use energy and paper energy, that

includes households, filling up the petrol tank, businesses that rely on

oil, the plastics industry, you would have thought there would be

more profitability, more cash left over, but in Scotland that money is

not feeding through to spending, to business

invest, they do not see the demand summer particularly for

manufacturers. And householders may be paying down debt or saving

money. You mentioned that manufacturing is

deep in pessimism. Why is that? Trade is the main reason. For the

whole of Britain, not just in Scotland, the pound sterling is very

strong against the euro. Very tough to sell into European markets and

beyond. Also we are vulnerable to those trying to sell them to our

markets. Manufacturing is particularly exposed to that. The

critical mass across the guest of Europe, services

critical mass across the guest of is not broke, why fix it? The head

of Robert Gordon University said they were accountable to no one. Is

it not time that university balls were made accountable like any other

organisation? They are accountable at the moment. That is the role of

university courts. There are two issues. There is an issue of

governance. Maybe it is time in some university situations where they

make up of the governance is slightly different. But that is

singularly different than having ministers controlling the strings

behind the scenes. I agree, it is important for democracy that

universities are totally independent. And, yes, they are

accountable to the students. The students can voice their opinions. A

number of universities in Scotland have staff on the university courts.

You need that inputs but you do not need Government behind the scenes

making their desires known. It looks like a U-turn. Nicola

Sturgeon has said repeatedly she wants to be judged on how

Government's record and education. Is this a good thing for her or a

bit embarrassing? That is a difficult one. It is a good thing to

recognise that people object to this policy, this meddling. The very fact

that the Government tried to almost sneak it in under the radar and hope

that no one would pick up on it meant that two people in the street

it's means nothing. But is that a good thing? Rituals they are either

listening they have been caught out. Let us move to Westminster.

The SNP has threatened to block Sunday trading laws. That prompted a

heated exchange on the daily politics between the SNP and Lord

Digby Jones. We are not bringing forward

protections for people. That is an excuse. An excuse to protect the

poorest people. In the Midlands of England would you take exception to

him coming up to Edinburgh to tell you what to do with your shops. I

take exception... Answer the question. Tax credit cats will

affect hundreds of thousands of people in Scotland. What do you make

of the SNP position on this? It is a tricky one. I am not surprised that

Digby Jones responded in immunity did. If I was living in England I

would be feeling the same and feeling very pleased about it. But I

remember when the original Sunday trading laws came in. And I was

living in England at the time. And at that time shop workers were

guaranteed that they were going to get double-time, they were going to

get one and a half times before working at a weekend. That was

completely eroded. It has been eroded. Scottish workers are much

better rewarded. The are getting paid for working those anti-social

hours. I have got sympathy both sides. Taking a stand for one of the

most vulnerable of our employment sectors is actually a good thing.

But if I was living south of the border maybe I would say things

slightly differently. Is it a tenuous justification for the SNP to

read into this when actually it could be argued that does not affect

Scotland? We know what the politics are. The self denying ordinance of

not putting in legislation that only affects legislation in England and

Wales was abandoned during the fox hunting debate earlier this year.

They have got 56 MPs. They want to show they have got muscle in holding

the Tory Government's feet to the fire. That is the politics. It is a

win -win situation for the SNP in many ways. What was said about shop

workers, we just conditions, people in retail, their wages are not

great. There is a fair if it becomes a normal trading day, Sunday, across

the UK, retailers will adjust wage rates to suit. Do you think this

Scottish voters will be impressed by the stance that the SNP has taken? I

would like to think that they were but I am sure there is going to be

huge division of opinion. Do not forget that the conservative lobby

that is going to vote against that, that has been missed by the media.

That is all for tonight. Goodbye.