East Belfast Riots Spotlight

Hello and welcome to the programme. Just one week after violence

erupted on the streets of East Belfast, the Irish President

visited the area today. She said the trouble had broken heart, but

could not break the local community. We will be discussing the

repercussions of the violence were political and church leaders later.

But first, a look at precisely what happened and why.

And aerial view of some of the worst rioting in East Belfast in

many years. These exclusive pictures not seen until now were

taken from a police helicopter as the violence unfolded. But exactly

what happened and how did this mayhem start? We have pieced

together a detailed breakdown of two consecutive nights of trouble

to understand what went on on the streets of Belfast just over a week

ago. East Belfast is predominantly Unionist, but also home to Short

Strand. There is an interface. The first sign of violence came at 6

o'clock when a republican received a phone call from a Republican

intermediary warning tensions were high. UVF men were being brought

into the area and when gathering at local bars. Around 8:45pm, groups

of UVF men appeared from here. They converged on this road and were

dressed in black, wearing gloves and masks. They were ready to

attack. A police patrol spotted 8,100 strong crowd and called for

back-up. There was some significant disorder. The first attacks were

launched at these homes. At exactly the same time, another group

attacked the area from a different street. Police were able to bring

some of the trouble under control by 10 o'clock, but it escalated in

other areas. Homes in this pub has done area were attacked. There were

500 people on each side of the divide. For the next 3.5 hours, the

Briot raged. Five shots were fired from the loyalist side, some

ricochet in of police Land Rovers. After midnight fire also came from

Short Strand. A man was shot on the loyalist side and a short time

later a 16-year-old was hit as well. But police managed to hold the line

and the crowd dispersed at 2:30am. One of the worst nights of rioting

in recent years had ended. The next day, police were asked to clear-up

some of the confusion. They could not have been more categorical. The

UVF started an orchestrated the violence. The police say they did a

see it coming. Tensions were high in that area and we had extra

patrols, but we did not know it was coming to this scale. The first we

knew of it was mast and bluffed men -- men up wearing masks and gloves

gathering on the street corner. This man says they used to be

communication with Belfast UVF, but it has broken down. East Belfast

was exemplary in terms of to make a name for themselves.

there is evidence the UVF has been making their presence felt on the

streets of east Belfast. We have had murals painted sending out a

war message. There are a number of the UVF flags been displayed, and

you have the leader of that organisation who sees himself as a

law unto themselves. The second night of disorder, the UVF stepped

back and watched as local youth carried on the violence they had

started. It got beyond the reach and control of those who were

potentially organising that. It was also clear there was no visible

sign that night of more mature heads seeking to constrain the

situation. I think the beginning of this was organised. After that it

took a life of its own. violence led to republicans firing

shots and brought rioters onto the streets in the middle of the margin

season. The repercussions were potentially huge. Reluctant to

leave the stage, reinforcements were bussed into Short Strand to

defend the area by hand. Republicans had to go into Short

Strand to shore up the area. They wanted to give reassurance. People

would use a situation like that as a pretext to enter the area. The

genie is out of the bottle. aerial footage has revealed crowds

making petrol bombs. At one point let -- loyalists end a laser at the

helicopter. They also climbed on rooftops to throw their missiles.

On the second night of trouble, a press photographer was injured when

shots were fired. Police say they came from dissidents. The situation

was one of chaos. He at the centre for community mediation in north

Belfast, of representatives of what was the IRA and what is the UPA,

and Red Hand Commando net. -- what is the UVF. I said, or we are where

we are. We do we go from here? deal was done to end the violence.

People from both sides had work to restore calm. But why did it all

start? Some loyalists feel that the peace process has passed them by.

There were riots eight months ago because there is believed that

historical crime team is one-sided. -- that the historical crime team

is one-sided. There are genuine grievances out there. They need to

be addressed. The with the tried to talk to the leader of the UVF in

Belfast, but he did not want to talk to us. But they have been

talking recently to this local clergyman. Has the UVF said to you

why it has happened? It happened because they felt that their

community is continually under attack. Some solutions could be

resolved. Unfortunately, they were not. Tensions at the interface had

estimated at the weekend before the rioting. But whatever the exact

reason, it East Belfast UVF decided to attack the Short Strand last

week, and that was with beat backing of the UVF Shankill Road

command. It is a coming together of the UVF in East Belfast and

Shankill Road. In fact, last Tuesday, the East Belfast UVF

leader was joined by the overall leader of the UVF, its so called

Brigadier. But his appearance raises further questions about the

UVF commitment to peace. It 2007, they have released a statement. The

brigade staff talked about moving into a non military role.

Everything that has happened in East Belfast speaks and axe in

But the violence may have suited the leadership. It was said that

there may be some thinking within the UVF, if we caused some noise,

if we caused a bit of violence, if we show we are still out there,

some of these things will back off, the Supergrass trial will back off,

that is what you get if you come after us. The UVF's politically --

volatility has been a matter of concern. We have learned that pipe

bomb attacks on two homes in republican west Belfast last

November have also been blamed on a UVF unit. Leading Republicans have

tackled the leadership about this. We gave them the benefit of the

doubt and hope they will raise their mark and deal with those

situations. They need to deal with it as soon as possible. The UVF's

actions are a real concern for the Stormont executive to. Last

Thursday, Peter Robinson met a UVF delegation including the East

Belfast commander. The First Minister said last week's violence

has bomb-maker -- damaged Northern Ireland's reputation

internationally. His senior civil servant has been appointed to

report back on the issues behind it. And the police, often in the middle

of committee division, are also stressing the need for a local

solution at the Short Strand interface itself. Policing the

symptoms is a short-term fix, they have got to be a longer term,

sustainable relationship between these communities. How we do that

is principally with communities being supported by other agencies

but it is in communities's hands as well. Switching the violence on is

always easier than switching it off and with a precedent having been

set last week, there is now fear of more trouble and other interfaces

throughout the marching season. Sustained rioting for two nights,

gunmen back on the streets, houses wrecked, thousands of pounds worth

of damage caused and the police admit there was a gap in their

intelligence -- intelligence. Mr Ford, they may have been a failure

of police intelligence last week but there is no doubt on the police

is part that the UVF was responsible for turning the tap on.

Why can the authorities go into East Belfast and arrest the people

responsible before they do it again? That is a job for the police,

not the Department of Justice. The police have got to work with

evidence and intelligence which enables them to take action. There

was a build-up of tension with flag flying before we got to the stage.

They have got to be questions as to how the agencies as a whole address

problems like that. I'm concerned there was this intelligence gap?

All this was happening. With the benefit of hindsight, we know what

it led to. They say they did not expect 100 men to come up wearing

masks and surgical gloves and do to get the intelligence to deal

with this in advance. We have got to make sure the police have the

best possible intelligence and one of the key is the community

contacts they depend upon. depend on public confidence for

police to work properly. Policing did not get to grips with what

happened on Monday and Tuesday of last week. The individuals

responsible, far from being arrested and held to account, some

of them were correct -- invited to Stormont Castle to meet senior

politicians. I recognise that in the past people have been persuaded

away from violence because of cheerleaders or committee leaders.

I think that is very different from people in Parliament. -- church

leaders or community leaders. I think the real issues that need to

be addressed are around committee confidence. There are issues around

robust policing. I am going to take an awful lot of convincing that

senior politicians speaking to those implementing violence is the

way to go forward. Did those senior politicians who met with those UVF

leaders from east Belfast make a miscalculation in your view?

don't know who was at the meeting, I was no part of it. I took part in

a more constructive meeting this afternoon looking at how we deal

with difficulties around interface in arrears and other hard to reach

areas, looking at constructive ways around engagement. That is what I

think government should be doing. You are saying you are

uncomfortable about it, the First Minister was at the meeting, it

took place at Stormont Castle, which is the heart of Northern

Ireland government. I took part in other things which are my

responsibility to look at community safety issues last week to see how

we address those community safety issues. Partially by physical

structures but very much by committee action. The Minister of

Justice has responsibility to support the justice agencies,

particularly the police and see... Other people have got to take on

their responsibilities because a large amount of the committee

Richens issue is down to the First Minister. We do not have the IMC to

monitor ceasefires. What is the status of the ceasefire? You heard

what Allister thinly said. The firm belief that it was the East Belfast

UDF started that off and the message has got to be clear. The

message has got to be clear, the UVF claimed they were disbanding,

the UVF has got to go away. There is role for individuals in

community life, if they want to take part in a democratic process.

There is no role for opposition's lack the UVF. At that you for

coming to join us. What has it been like on the frontline of the

trouble? Mandy Macaulay has been talking to... She has been hearing

the human cost from people on both For years, residents on but the

size of the East Belfast interface have lived with the threat of

violence but days ago one woman, a Catholic resident of the Short

Strand, too frightened to be identified, looked out of her

window and was frozen with fear, horrified by what she saw. I looked

out of the window and got Taoiseach of my life. What did you see?

hundreds of men, Crone, older men, with balaclavas on, black

balaclavas, and black coats, and wearing surgical gloves. I actually

crawled down the stairs to get to the phone to phone the police. I

thought I was going to be killed. I thought I was going to be killed

for. And then, minutes later, I was Justin at a panic. It was just

horrendous. -- just in utter panic. She was not the only one who was

terrified. Earlier, this woman's children were playing outside the

House when missiles started exploding around them. I'd just

grab them up. I did not realise what was going on. They saw me

panicking and then they were squealing. The older two were very

nervous. They have not been out because they are afraid. Across the

peace line, Protestant residents say last week's violence was a

response to months of attacks on the committee by young nationalists,

a tax which they claim have been ignored by police. One woman says

her son who is in a wheelchair and a disabled friend were attacked on

the other side of the divide on the Sunday before trouble broke out.

There is not a week goes by, there are threats, there are metal bars,

there are broken bottles, he has never been able to use his garden,

and on Sunday there was the final straw. Him and his friend, he's in

a wheelchair, his friend came up for a nice weekend in Belfast, and

was walking to try to get into their home and they were hit with

bricks. There is not a week has gone by when we have not phone the

police and they are not taking any heed. But there are those who are

convinced that the UVF has taken advantage of this discontent to

stir up trouble for its own against. One of those believes it is his

Christian duty to speak out about the orchestration of last week's

violence who is a Church of Ireland minister who has worked in East

Belfast for more than a decade. They did not physically track

hundreds of men and women and young people onto the streets, but they

created an environment that they knew, and everybody else knew,

would result in hundreds of people going on to the streets. On the

back of that, they attempted to be seen as part of the answer, a big

part of the answer to the problem. And solving the problem. He is not

alone in that belief. In the loyalist heartland, the UVF has a

strong presence. Pastor Jack McKee is based there. He says it is now

in the financial and political interests of some paramilitaries to

open at sectarian divisions. There are people who were content to

stare at tensions so that they will commend as the cavalry in order to

bring a solution to the issue and be seen as the good guys. My

interpretation of what happened in East Belfast were that there were

those who were hell-bent on putting on a show. The presence of

organised groups of adults working together in a disciplined fashion

shows how orchestrated the arts -- orchestrated the violence was. You

are saying on some level paramilitaries brought hundreds of

young men on to the streets to terrorise people so that they could

then be seen to be solving the problem? The paramilitaries

certainly had a hand in creating the problem and encouraging the

situation. Three days later, discussions have taken place, talks

have happened, and the streets are clear tonight. There is nobody out

on the streets of east Belfast this evening. Why couldn't those talks

have happened a week ago? Or a fortnight ago? In order to prevent

the situation. And yet loyalist community workers would say, we

have been in meeting after meeting in recent days to try and solve

this problem. I would have a question for them and it would go

something like this, why didn't you attempt to solve this problem

before it happened? He is not saying they were not genuine

grievances but rather that there was a deliberate decision by

paramilitaries to escalate the situation. A young man we were

encouraging to come away from the riots, not to stay there any longer,

and he whispered to myself and to another person, "I can't go here. I

have got to stay. I will be in trouble, I can't leave, I have got

to stay". Obviously, he was afraid. He was afraid to leave and felt he

had to stay there. This Presbyterian minister was also on

the streets on Tuesday night when adult men were replaced by

teenagers on the front line. These are young people living in inner

East Belfast who rightly or wrongly believe they are defending their

location. They are young people who have become engaged in all the

activities of these last couple of nights, brick throwing and chanting

and all manner of things. Young people like to be in at the heart

of everything. They like to say they have been there and some of

them will have been bruised, battered or even shop are wearing

those badges as on it. I have been on the front line, I have been

engaged, without thinking what they have been doing. One reason why the

UVF may have decided to escalate the violence is money. Some

committee workers have told us that what they believe they UVF wants is

a greater share of government funding, in particular, another �4

million contested space programme. Part of this money remains to be

distributed by the Office of the Deputy First Ministers and other

bodies. Spotlight has been told that in last week's meeting between

loyalists and Peter Robinson, money was not discussed, but elements of

the voluntary sector remain deeply worried. Those we have spoken to

fear that some of the money earmarked for the loyalist

communities will end up in the hands of paramilitaries already

trying to muscle in on government funding and jobs. They say that

across Northern Ireland, paramilitaries are attempting to

seize control of The areas in order to squeeze up community

organisations who have been at the coalface of some of the most

deprived loyalist areas for decades. Some have been intimidated. They

say it would put themselves and their colleagues in danger if they

appeared on camera. Solving the problem, they are putting

themselves as the ones who are worthy of public funding and public

support. Public funding is just trying up at the moment and public

funding, which plots of organisations, not necessarily

connected to any church, very good organisations, are being run by

ordinary working-class women and men in East Belfast, will not have

access to is that world has access In March the Executive set out

plans to tackle poverty with funding of �80 million. They are

looking for what they feel are their just rewards and a slice of

whatever funding is available from government. There is �80 million

that should be divided between Unionist and nationalist

communities. There are those who want to make sure they get their

share of that particular pie. man believes that decisions being

made by government should be about protecting the peace process.

should want the peace process to work, at any price. And what is

that price? If we can buy off pad - - paramilitaries. If that can be

done, then the groups can be drawn into the centre. Whatever it costs

to keep them there, is what it will cost. The reality is it is not

working. Within local communities, paramilitaries still control those

communities. Back in East Belfast, those on the peace line are still

coming to terms with the events of last week. We have this trouble

every couple of months. Those men who came out the other night, they

protected the ones in the area, children are getting involved now.

The we are just surviving at the moment. We are not living, we are

existing. -- we are just surviving at the moment. We just sit there.

You cannot relax. You cannot even read the paper because you have no

concentration. We have no life at the minute, no life what the

weather. Joining me now in the studio Sammy Douglas, Mr Kelly and

Drove run Gibson and restaurant McCrea. -- Reverend Gibson and

reverent McCrea. Deer it except the claim in that film that the

violence was switched on by the UVF in Belfast on Monday? I do not.

There has been a build up over many months of this more attacks. They

have been managed for years. Someone took their eye off the ball

and nothing justified what happened on Monday. So at 100 men -- so, 100

men wearing masks and rioting. Sadly, everyone took their eye off

the ball. Is there a much simpler explanation than the one you put

forward? Obviously there was a leader. It did not happen in a

vacuum. It is clear that the UVF and the paramilitaries were in the

middle of the rioting that was taking place. Young people were

afraid to come away from the riots. Some did, but others were afraid to

be removed by youth workers who went down to try and encourage

children away from the scene. you are clear that the tap was

turned on and then off, in both cases by UVF leaders in East

Belfast? I am clear about ordinary people in East Belfast who are

hesitant to speak out against the paramilitary world. The taxi man

who drove me here this evening asked what might take on it was? He

said that he would not want those people coming to his door. Earlier

this evening, a man who works and the communities said to me, David,

watch yourself. They will not like what you are saying. So what do you

say to Mervyn Gibson about his understanding of the situation? Do

you think he is ignoring the elephant in the brain? Do you think

the paramilitaries want to move into areas like East Belfast to

access of funding? Do you say he is not accepting it, or he is not

aware of it? I am not disagreeing with Mervyn that there was not a

build up to miss -- this. What I am saying is East Belfast has a strong

paramilitary Belfast. The majority of people, certainly in East

Belfast and the people I connect with on a day-to-day basis do not

want to be hold their community in fear. Who has the power to take

kids out on the streets like that for their own ends? I was at a

community meeting and it was said that it is all about funding.

you saying you don't hear that at all? I am not. I do hear people say

that. All I can do is talk to the local people and see what they

believe. It depends on who you listen to. Paramilitaries are part

of our communities. Same with Republican key amenities. Does that

mean assisting them to access public funds to become community

workers, what does it mean standing up and saying, go away. You're part

of the problem and not the solution. I don't see it as them and us.

Paramilitaries are part of the community. Well, paramilitary

backgrounds are different from paramilitary presence. If I saw

anyone trying to muscle in, I would be the first one to cry out against

it. There is a new ones between the ministers regarding their take on

what is happening. Is there anything positive about what is

going on in East Belfast? Then need to go away and they need the help.

I was at the meeting at Stormont Castle. The paramilitaries said

they were under pressure from local communities, and the PSNI will tell

you there have been attacks on both communities. There has been a

build-up to this over the past few months. But at those meetings it

was clear as a bell. They said, it is not about money. They said it

was about safety. What were they promise that the meeting to turn

the violence off? We said we would speak to the police and other

agencies to ensure that people's houses would be fixed up. The PSNI

would have a presence on the ground and we would work together to

ensure that violence didn't happen. They is an irony in that. Those

people who wanted safety and were promised safety at that meeting

were responsible, at least in a fairly significant way, for the

violence that happened on Monday and Tuesday night. Their people's

on the ground were throwing fireworks, petrol bombs and firing

guns. The UVF were involved. Houses on both sides were attacked and

there was violence from both sides. The balance out of control. As

Shaun Murray said, none of us envisaged what happened. It took us

all by shock, to be honest. heard from Shaun Murray in that

film saying that republicans were quick to bring guns out as well. He

spoke about a vacuum. If the situation goes unchecked there will

be a vacuum and the danger is it will be filled by dissident

republicans. How concerned a you about that? On the one hand they

are saying the reasons behind this riot is money. There have been

attacks on both sides leading up to with though. There has been a

change in East Belfast. The palate news 3 -- the pan and -- the

paramilitary murals were taken away and the UVF have started putting

them back up again. They have had an influence, particularly in the

marching season. Do you think it is about a group of paramilitary

leaders wanting at cut off the money -- a cut of the money? I'd do

not think they should get any money. -- I do not think they should get

any money. I it would be very worried, and let me make this clear,

at the worst possible times I have argued there should be talks with

people, but it the talk instalment is to give money to UVF, it is not

the way to go. Are you concerned that too many people are too quick

to understand and be empathetic with the people who rioted last

week? I want the paramilitary world to move away from their past.

say they won that as well. -- they want that as well. Well, they will

not move away from their past if they hold their communities in fear.

It will not win the admiration and respect of the local community.

They put up flags, murals. Do you think paramilitary leaders are

Bernie Friday voices -- bona fide voices for the communities they

claim to represent? Not if they hold their communities in fear. If

they are going to be community workers, do exactly that. Stop

holding people in fear. You cannot have both. You cannot be a

paramilitary and a community representative. People need to