Browse content similar to The Whistleblower and the Watchdog. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
This man's resignation plunged the office of Al Hutchinson into crisis. | 0:00:07 | 0:00:11 | |
The strength and integrity of the office has weakened. | 0:00:11 | 0:00:16 | |
Tonne on Spotlight, new evidence of failings in the body yet-up to hold | 0:00:16 | 0:00:19 | |
police to account. There was informers involved and | 0:00:19 | 0:00:25 | |
they should have been obliged to tell me exactly what they found. | 0:00:25 | 0:00:30 | |
The intelligence branch of the PSNI given the all clear in the | 0:00:30 | 0:00:35 | |
unmasking and subsequent death of Denis Donaldson. But was key | 0:00:35 | 0:00:42 | |
evidence overlooked? How Can you close a case and find | 0:00:42 | 0:00:46 | |
no evidence of police misconduct? Well, you seem to be rising new | 0:00:46 | 0:00:52 | |
facts. Al Hutchinson is a former Royal ka in aidy mounty -- Canadian | 0:00:52 | 0:00:58 | |
mowny. He stands accused of failing to pursue allegation that that | 0:00:58 | 0:01:02 | |
Special Branch officers and agents broke the law. | 0:01:02 | 0:01:12 | |
0:01:12 | 0:01:37 | ||
Murder, the loss of life, some The office of the Police Ombudsman | 0:01:37 | 0:01:41 | |
has been a critical part of Northern Ireland's new future for | 0:01:41 | 0:01:46 | |
policing. After ten years at the heart of police reform, Sam Pollock | 0:01:46 | 0:01:53 | |
leaves work for the last time. With his resignation, the ombudsman's | 0:01:53 | 0:01:56 | |
Chief Executive, sent shockwaves through the organisation set-up to | 0:01:56 | 0:02:06 | |
0:02:06 | 0:02:08 | ||
hold police to account. He has refused to speak about why | 0:02:09 | 0:02:16 | |
he left his �90,000 a year job until now. It was a statement on my | 0:02:16 | 0:02:21 | |
part that I couldn't do anymore. I basically lost confidence in the | 0:02:21 | 0:02:25 | |
direction of the office and the independence of the office in | 0:02:25 | 0:02:33 | |
relation to very serious matters. The prospective of the police mind | 0:02:33 | 0:02:39 | |
became upper most. His departure led to two officials reports that | 0:02:39 | 0:02:41 | |
found a lack of leadership and a loss of independence. Criticism | 0:02:41 | 0:02:47 | |
that led to the suspension of historical investigations, the | 0:02:47 | 0:02:52 | |
ombudsman's most controversial area of work and forced Al Hutchinson to | 0:02:52 | 0:02:58 | |
announce he will retire next June. I decided to leave because the | 0:02:58 | 0:03:02 | |
office was being damaged by the attacks on me. | 0:03:02 | 0:03:05 | |
Snoot difficult issues need to be addressed and and they are issues | 0:03:05 | 0:03:11 | |
of transparency. They are issues of truthfulness about some very bad | 0:03:11 | 0:03:15 | |
stories and matters which no matter how much we don't want to face them, | 0:03:15 | 0:03:20 | |
need to be faced. I can assure everybody that we do | 0:03:20 | 0:03:25 | |
deliver independent, impartial evidence based reports and whether | 0:03:25 | 0:03:28 | |
that is perceived by the public or not is a matter of debate. | 0:03:28 | 0:03:34 | |
. Disciplined by the ombudsman as internal rows became bitter, Sam | 0:03:34 | 0:03:39 | |
Pollock has become an unlikely whistle-blower, after a career in | 0:03:39 | 0:03:43 | |
the Criminal Justice System spanning 40 years, service that was | 0:03:43 | 0:03:50 | |
rewarded with an OBE six years ago. My resignation was not in a fit of | 0:03:50 | 0:03:53 | |
pique or anything like that. I did not want to be associated with | 0:03:53 | 0:03:57 | |
something that I believed was not act in the public interest. I think | 0:03:57 | 0:04:04 | |
he has done the office a service. His resignation from such a highly | 0:04:04 | 0:04:08 | |
paid post in such circumstances speaks for itself. It was the act | 0:04:08 | 0:04:12 | |
of a man of integrity. Sam Pollock Accused the watchdog he | 0:04:12 | 0:04:22 | |
0:04:22 | 0:04:24 | ||
worked for, of turning a blind eye of serious wrongdoing to the police. | 0:04:24 | 0:04:27 | |
Some of the ombudsman's investigators and senior officials | 0:04:27 | 0:04:31 | |
claimed they have been kept in the dark and that reports have been | 0:04:31 | 0:04:40 | |
changed to reduce criticism of the police. But this isn't just Sam | 0:04:40 | 0:04:45 | |
Pollock's story. I spent weeks investigating cases that go to the | 0:04:45 | 0:04:49 | |
heart of his criticisms. I have taught the families of victims who | 0:04:49 | 0:04:54 | |
share his views and found that this is not simply about a failure to | 0:04:54 | 0:04:58 | |
probe the RUC's past. I have discovered shortcomings in | 0:04:58 | 0:05:04 | |
oversight of the PSNI. Obviously not at this stage. | 0:05:04 | 0:05:09 | |
For 20 years, senior Sinn Fein member, Denis Donaldson led a | 0:05:09 | 0:05:14 | |
secret life as an informer for MI5, the RUC and the PSNI. | 0:05:14 | 0:05:24 | |
Then he was exposed as an agent and shot dead at a remote cottage in | 0:05:24 | 0:05:29 | |
Donegal. Three years after he was killed, the Real IRA said they were | 0:05:29 | 0:05:34 | |
responsible, but his family pointed an accusing finger at the police. | 0:05:34 | 0:05:38 | |
They claim officers, who knew about Denis Donaldson's secret role, may | 0:05:38 | 0:05:45 | |
have exposed him as an agent and contributed to his death. They | 0:05:45 | 0:05:51 | |
complained to the Police Ombudsman and say he failed to conduct a | 0:05:51 | 0:05:53 | |
proper investigation into their claims. | 0:05:53 | 0:05:56 | |
Are you aware of the nature of the complaint made by the family of | 0:05:56 | 0:06:00 | |
Denis Donaldson? I am because representative of the family did | 0:06:00 | 0:06:02 | |
speak to me. Do you have a view on how their | 0:06:03 | 0:06:07 | |
complaint was treated by the office? I have no doubt that the | 0:06:07 | 0:06:14 | |
family are quite right to be just to feel frustrated or agitated | 0:06:14 | 0:06:20 | |
about how the matter was dealt W Denis Donaldson's family believe a | 0:06:20 | 0:06:24 | |
Special Branch agent handler, Lenny, may have the answers. It was a | 0:06:24 | 0:06:31 | |
phone call from Lenny that sent Denis Donaldson fleeing to this | 0:06:31 | 0:06:40 | |
cottage to dony from his home in Belfast.. All these events | 0:06:40 | 0:06:45 | |
initiated with Denis being expositioned or forced into a a | 0:06:45 | 0:06:50 | |
position where he admit his role as an agent. He was force nood that | 0:06:50 | 0:06:54 | |
position by bun of the intelligence -- one of the intelligence agencies | 0:06:54 | 0:07:04 | |
0:07:04 | 0:07:04 | ||
that recruited him. Nuala O'Loan now sits in the House | 0:07:04 | 0:07:10 | |
of Lords. But in 2007, she was coming to the end of her seven year | 0:07:10 | 0:07:14 | |
term as Police Ombudsman. The Donaldson family brought their | 0:07:14 | 0:07:20 | |
concerns to her. I think I would have described it | 0:07:21 | 0:07:26 | |
as grave and exceptional. A man who had been in a very significant | 0:07:26 | 0:07:29 | |
position was murdered in questionable circumstances, I would | 0:07:29 | 0:07:32 | |
have regarded it as significant, but more than that, I don't think I | 0:07:32 | 0:07:36 | |
can say. After Nuala O'Loan left office, the | 0:07:36 | 0:07:39 | |
Donaldson's complaint was redrafted and sent back to them, but they | 0:07:39 | 0:07:44 | |
refused to sign it. The case case appeared to stall. A letter from | 0:07:44 | 0:07:47 | |
the ombudsman said if the complaint wasn't signed, the matter would be | 0:07:47 | 0:07:52 | |
closed and no further investigation would take place. The family didn't | 0:07:52 | 0:07:57 | |
respond. They say they didn't want an investigation conducted under | 0:07:57 | 0:08:01 | |
the new terms. The investigation was being closed, | 0:08:01 | 0:08:06 | |
it was dead and buried they took the ombudsman's correspondance at | 0:08:06 | 0:08:09 | |
face value. Other a year later, another letter | 0:08:09 | 0:08:12 | |
arrived, even though the investigation had been declared | 0:08:12 | 0:08:16 | |
closed, the family was told the ombudsman had gone on to conduct | 0:08:17 | 0:08:22 | |
significant inquiries with the PSNI. The letter said no police | 0:08:22 | 0:08:26 | |
misconduct has been identified and that this office has concluded the | 0:08:26 | 0:08:31 | |
investigation and now considers the matter to be closed. | 0:08:31 | 0:08:35 | |
But I have established that the case was closed without | 0:08:35 | 0:08:39 | |
investigators speaking to the Special Branch handler known as | 0:08:39 | 0:08:44 | |
Lenny. It is an issue that goes to the heart of complaints about the | 0:08:44 | 0:08:49 | |
office of the ombudsman, that is reluctant to investigate | 0:08:49 | 0:08:52 | |
allegations involving informants and their handlers. | 0:08:52 | 0:08:57 | |
It can't be said to be an effective investigation because Lenny is the | 0:08:57 | 0:09:03 | |
person at the centre of all this who has serious questions to ask. | 0:09:03 | 0:09:07 | |
It beggars belief that the person in respect of hom the complaint -- | 0:09:07 | 0:09:10 | |
whom the complaint was directed wasn't even spoken to. | 0:09:10 | 0:09:16 | |
Would you accept that it would would not be possible to conduct a | 0:09:16 | 0:09:19 | |
proper investigation without speaking to the Special Branch | 0:09:19 | 0:09:25 | |
handler? I am not across the file and the detail. I will look at it, | 0:09:25 | 0:09:30 | |
but I really don't have the detail. The ombudsman's investigators were | 0:09:30 | 0:09:34 | |
unaware of a potentially vital piece of information about Denis | 0:09:34 | 0:09:38 | |
Donaldson's life as an informer. Something Irish police removed from | 0:09:38 | 0:09:43 | |
cottage as part of their investigation and have refused to | 0:09:43 | 0:09:49 | |
return to the family. When Gardai set-up a meeting with the family in | 0:09:49 | 0:09:56 | |
July of 2006, to facilitate the return of personal effects and | 0:09:56 | 0:10:02 | |
property that Denis had, Denis's widow noticed that missing was a | 0:10:02 | 0:10:08 | |
jotter or a notebook in which Denis was writing issues in relation to | 0:10:08 | 0:10:12 | |
his life. Denis was writing a journal. | 0:10:12 | 0:10:16 | |
Gardai took away the jotter or journal after the murder. Denis | 0:10:16 | 0:10:20 | |
Donaldson's family wants to read it. They believe it may provide clues | 0:10:20 | 0:10:25 | |
about why he was killed and by whom. They were told it would be given | 0:10:25 | 0:10:31 | |
back, but later informed that for security reasons the jotter cannot | 0:10:31 | 0:10:35 | |
be returned. Is it the family's belief that the | 0:10:35 | 0:10:39 | |
journal may have contained details of his life as an informant? Well, | 0:10:39 | 0:10:43 | |
all the family know is that this material was going to be provided | 0:10:43 | 0:10:49 | |
and returned to them. They then seen about face in terms of the | 0:10:49 | 0:10:54 | |
Gardai decision to disclose that material which effectively would | 0:10:54 | 0:10:57 | |
have been the last writings of this man before he was killed. | 0:10:57 | 0:11:02 | |
I know nothing about a journal. I take it this is what the family are | 0:11:02 | 0:11:06 | |
saying and the Gardai have that information. We would have to | 0:11:06 | 0:11:10 | |
liaise with them. REPORTER: How can you close a case | 0:11:10 | 0:11:17 | |
and find no police misconduct if you don't know the answers to those | 0:11:17 | 0:11:22 | |
questions? Well, if there are new facts that need to come to us then | 0:11:22 | 0:11:23 | |
certainly the family can bring them forward. | 0:11:23 | 0:11:28 | |
So you will be looking at the case again? Well, it again it goes with | 0:11:28 | 0:11:35 | |
the 128 or 19 that are in the list -- 129 that are on the list. | 0:11:35 | 0:11:40 | |
The case is back on Al Hutchinson's list because the Hutchinson family | 0:11:40 | 0:11:44 | |
brought the matter to the Chief Constable. The PSNI asked the | 0:11:44 | 0:11:47 | |
ombudsman to re-open the investigation. The delay in the | 0:11:47 | 0:11:51 | |
case has probably closed down one line of inquiry. We understand the | 0:11:51 | 0:11:56 | |
handler known as Lenny has retired from the PSNI, meaning that under | 0:11:56 | 0:12:04 | |
current legislation, he is no longer obliged to speak to the | 0:12:04 | 0:12:08 | |
ombudsman's investigators. It was the dark corners of intelligence | 0:12:08 | 0:12:13 | |
and the use of informers that became a battleground inside the | 0:12:13 | 0:12:20 | |
ombudsman's office. I sensed in the end a dilemma or a conflict in | 0:12:20 | 0:12:24 | |
terms of dealing with the whole issue of informants. It is a | 0:12:24 | 0:12:33 | |
difficult matter. It is a sensitive matter. But short of that, a family | 0:12:33 | 0:12:43 | |
0:12:43 | 0:12:45 | ||
who is maybe been living for years or decades with grief, not knowing | 0:12:45 | 0:12:50 | |
basic information with regard to the death and loss, they have a | 0:12:50 | 0:12:58 | |
right to know as much as possible. To speak about the involvement of | 0:12:58 | 0:13:05 | |
an an informant directly or indirectly in murder and the loss | 0:13:05 | 0:13:10 | |
of life, some atrocities, you cannot fudge that. | 0:13:10 | 0:13:15 | |
And the office should not and never should step back from exposing that. | 0:13:15 | 0:13:21 | |
But I found evidence that they did just that. The first time the | 0:13:21 | 0:13:25 | |
ombudsman investigated the murder of a police officer his report | 0:13:25 | 0:13:33 | |
withheld a key piece of information. In October 1988, RUC officer John | 0:13:33 | 0:13:36 | |
Larmour was off duty and looking after his brother's ice cream | 0:13:36 | 0:13:46 | |
0:13:46 | 0:13:46 | ||
parlour when two gunmen walked in just before closing time. | 0:13:47 | 0:13:54 | |
No one has ever been charged with the murder. | 0:13:54 | 0:14:01 | |
Gavin Larmour was 13 when his father was killed. Years later, he | 0:14:01 | 0:14:04 | |
complained to the ombudsman about the police investigation into the | 0:14:04 | 0:14:09 | |
murder. The ombudsman found that Special Branch had not told | 0:14:09 | 0:14:12 | |
detectives everything they knew, but the ombudsman didn't tell him | 0:14:12 | 0:14:19 | |
why the information was held back. Legislation prevents Sam Pollock | 0:14:19 | 0:14:24 | |
from talking about specific cases, but he understands Gavin Larmour's | 0:14:24 | 0:14:30 | |
anger. I cannot say anything more that I | 0:14:30 | 0:14:39 | |
can understand why Gavin felt let down or felt the way he did with | 0:14:39 | 0:14:44 | |
regard to reporting on the death of his father. | 0:14:44 | 0:14:48 | |
REPORTER: You can understand his frustration? I can understand his | 0:14:48 | 0:14:51 | |
frustration. Three-and-a-half years ago, the | 0:14:51 | 0:14:54 | |
ombudsman released a two page report on the murder saying the | 0:14:54 | 0:14:57 | |
investigation was hampered by Special Branch. | 0:14:57 | 0:15:01 | |
It was information that was not passed on post the killing that | 0:15:01 | 0:15:04 | |
could have assisted the investigation. The more important | 0:15:04 | 0:15:09 | |
question is exactly what is that intelligence? Who does it | 0:15:09 | 0:15:16 | |
implicate? Who handled it and why did they choose not to disseminate | 0:15:16 | 0:15:21 | |
that down wards to the investigation team? | 0:15:21 | 0:15:27 | |
REPORTER: Why was it not pass on to detectives -- passed on to | 0:15:27 | 0:15:30 | |
detectives? Well, that is part of the new allegation that came up | 0:15:30 | 0:15:36 | |
that is currently going to be investigated once we restart | 0:15:36 | 0:15:40 | |
historic investigations. Al Hutchinson insists that Gavin | 0:15:40 | 0:15:45 | |
Larmour has only only recently made the allegation that Special Branch | 0:15:45 | 0:15:52 | |
was was protecting an informer. But I've learned that it is something | 0:15:52 | 0:15:58 | |
the ombudsman's office has known about for sometime. | 0:15:58 | 0:16:04 | |
In 2008, two weeks before the report and John Larmour's murder | 0:16:04 | 0:16:08 | |
was published, a senior officer warned that the office was | 0:16:08 | 0:16:12 | |
vulnerable if the Larmour report did not acknowledge that | 0:16:12 | 0:16:16 | |
information was withheld from detectives in order to to protect a | 0:16:16 | 0:16:24 | |
source. If there is any evidence or any | 0:16:24 | 0:16:29 | |
indication of that whatsoever, they should have been obliged in their | 0:16:29 | 0:16:33 | |
reply to me to tell me what they found. | 0:16:33 | 0:16:36 | |
The John Larmour murder investigation brought to light a | 0:16:36 | 0:16:40 | |
familiar story. Intelligence withheld from detectives who could | 0:16:40 | 0:16:45 | |
have used it. That's what gave RUC Special Branch a reputation as a | 0:16:45 | 0:16:50 | |
force within a force. Some of the ombudsman's investigators now | 0:16:50 | 0:16:55 | |
believe the same problem exists within their office. | 0:16:55 | 0:17:00 | |
In 2008, Al Hutchinson and this man, senior Director of Investigations | 0:17:00 | 0:17:05 | |
Jim Coupland, commission add review of how sensitive intelligence was | 0:17:05 | 0:17:10 | |
controlled in the ombudsman's office. It was set-up in response | 0:17:10 | 0:17:16 | |
to PSNI concerns. Jim Coupland brought in four police figures from | 0:17:16 | 0:17:21 | |
Great Britain to conduct the review. There are 17 recommendations were | 0:17:21 | 0:17:26 | |
only seen by Mr Coupland and Al Hutchinson. But the effect of the | 0:17:26 | 0:17:32 | |
review was to introduce a filter known as the confidential unit | 0:17:32 | 0:17:38 | |
between police intelligence and ombudsman investigators. | 0:17:38 | 0:17:43 | |
It is create ago firewall. -- it is create ago firewall. That did | 0:17:43 | 0:17:49 | |
concern me. Because one of the very strong vitisms we made -- | 0:17:49 | 0:17:55 | |
criticisms we made of the PSNI or previously the RUC was that | 0:17:55 | 0:17:59 | |
investigators were not getting all the information they needed or | 0:17:59 | 0:18:05 | |
should have had from what was previously Special Branch. Although | 0:18:05 | 0:18:10 | |
it is not a term I would use much, but the old term of the, "Force | 0:18:10 | 0:18:16 | |
within the force" had real significance. The review seemed to | 0:18:16 | 0:18:20 | |
almost replicate what we criticised the police for which was we had a | 0:18:20 | 0:18:24 | |
unit within a unit. We had an office within an office. | 0:18:24 | 0:18:33 | |
No, I don't agree. I don't think that's an appropriate analogy. All | 0:18:33 | 0:18:36 | |
we did was tighten up the information and the loose handling | 0:18:36 | 0:18:41 | |
of it and I don't agree with Sam as he said that as restricted | 0:18:41 | 0:18:46 | |
information, necessary information, to the to the investigators. | 0:18:46 | 0:18:50 | |
Six months ago, Al Hutchinson called in criminal justice | 0:18:50 | 0:18:55 | |
inspector Michael Maguire to investigate Sam Pollock's concerns. | 0:18:55 | 0:18:59 | |
He criticised the intelligence review for focusing entirely on the | 0:18:59 | 0:19:03 | |
needs of the police and MI5 while apparently giving no regard to the | 0:19:03 | 0:19:08 | |
needs of civilian oversight. One of the core functions of the | 0:19:08 | 0:19:12 | |
ombudsman's office. Proper mechanism for handling material, I | 0:19:12 | 0:19:17 | |
don't have a problem with. What I did have a concern with was the | 0:19:17 | 0:19:22 | |
absence of civilians within the ombudsman's office, non police in | 0:19:22 | 0:19:27 | |
contributing to that review. We had as we moved forward, the beginnings | 0:19:27 | 0:19:32 | |
of serious mistrust within the organisation over the way in which | 0:19:32 | 0:19:36 | |
confidential information and sensitive material was handled. | 0:19:36 | 0:19:40 | |
Was it a mistake not to have any civilian input into the review of | 0:19:40 | 0:19:43 | |
the intelligence function within your office? No, it was not a | 0:19:43 | 0:19:47 | |
mistake. It was not set-up for that. Trying to distinguish the two areas, | 0:19:47 | 0:19:50 | |
the product that comes out of there has to be balanced against the | 0:19:50 | 0:19:53 | |
public's right for information versus the right to protect the | 0:19:53 | 0:20:03 | |
life of informants and information. By May last year, the ombudsman's | 0:20:03 | 0:20:08 | |
office was deeply divided over the handling of intelligence. | 0:20:08 | 0:20:11 | |
Particularly about how much to reveal when informers were involved. | 0:20:11 | 0:20:16 | |
That became apparent here on this estate in Derry. | 0:20:16 | 0:20:20 | |
Here, three families became caught between the IRA's attempt to kill | 0:20:21 | 0:20:27 | |
police officers and the RUC's suspected attempt to protect a mole | 0:20:27 | 0:20:30 | |
inside the provisionals and here the ombudsman is alleged to have | 0:20:30 | 0:20:38 | |
stepped back from highlighting a terrible failure to protect life. | 0:20:38 | 0:20:44 | |
It was a flat roof building at that time with a balcony on it and this | 0:20:44 | 0:20:54 | |
0:20:54 | 0:20:55 | ||
would have been our house originally. On the 3 sst the 31st | 0:20:55 | 0:20:59 | |
August 1988, my father was killed in an explosion at our home. | 0:20:59 | 0:21:05 | |
Father of six, Eugene Dalton was caught in a trap meant for police. | 0:21:05 | 0:21:09 | |
The IRA kidnapped the man who lived in the flat above Eugene Dalton's | 0:21:09 | 0:21:14 | |
home. They planted a bomb inside attached to the door. | 0:21:14 | 0:21:21 | |
The IRA then made several attempts to lure police into the trap. A car | 0:21:21 | 0:21:25 | |
used in a rocket attack on an RUC station was left outside the flat | 0:21:25 | 0:21:30 | |
and a trail of blood was left leading to the door. | 0:21:30 | 0:21:38 | |
Police were told about the car, but didn't go to the flat. Two days | 0:21:38 | 0:21:43 | |
later, a chip shop was robbed, ID belonging to the man who lived in | 0:21:43 | 0:21:48 | |
the flat was dropped by the robbers. Again, police did not go to the | 0:21:48 | 0:21:54 | |
flat. That's because what is known as an out of bounds order had been | 0:21:54 | 0:21:58 | |
issued telling police to stay away from the streets around the bomb. | 0:21:58 | 0:22:04 | |
No such warning was given to the public. | 0:22:04 | 0:22:08 | |
The bomb had been in place six days when Eugene Dalton and two friends | 0:22:08 | 0:22:12 | |
went to look for their missing neighbour. The bomb was triggered | 0:22:12 | 0:22:18 | |
when Eugene opened the door. Eugene Dalton and Sheila Lewis were killed | 0:22:18 | 0:22:22 | |
immediately. Gerard Curran died later in hospital. The Daltons | 0:22:22 | 0:22:25 | |
acknowledged that the IRA was responsible for killing their | 0:22:25 | 0:22:30 | |
father, but in 2005, they complained to the Police Ombudsman | 0:22:30 | 0:22:36 | |
alleging that police could have prevented the deaths. | 0:22:36 | 0:22:40 | |
In 2008, ombudsman investigators briefed the Daltons about their | 0:22:40 | 0:22:44 | |
findings. They indicated that an informer told police about an | 0:22:44 | 0:22:48 | |
attack, a warning they had never made its way to residents of the | 0:22:48 | 0:22:50 | |
estate. What did the investigators tell | 0:22:50 | 0:22:56 | |
you? Well, they told us that they had had discovered that there was | 0:22:56 | 0:22:59 | |
an exclusion put into that area. That the police and the soldiers | 0:22:59 | 0:23:04 | |
were told not to go near that area. Did investigators say that because | 0:23:04 | 0:23:08 | |
of an out of bounds order, that proved the bliss knew where the | 0:23:08 | 0:23:12 | |
bomb -- police knew with the bomb was? Yes, that did prove that the | 0:23:12 | 0:23:17 | |
police did know where the bomb was. Well, it was never going to be a | 0:23:17 | 0:23:20 | |
happy outcome because at the end of the day, nothing is going to bring | 0:23:20 | 0:23:25 | |
my daddy back. It made us feel better that we had been found to be | 0:23:25 | 0:23:30 | |
right. That the police were wrong. One of the of the investigators did | 0:23:30 | 0:23:35 | |
say in a discussion after the meeting, "This will not be easy | 0:23:35 | 0:23:39 | |
reading for the police.". wouldn't have been easy read read | 0:23:39 | 0:23:46 | |
if it had been published. Last year, a draft ombudsman's report upheld | 0:23:46 | 0:23:49 | |
the Dalton's chief complaints, including the allegation that | 0:23:49 | 0:23:53 | |
police knew a bomb was in place but did not act because they were | 0:23:53 | 0:23:56 | |
protecting an informer. The draft had taken almost five years to | 0:23:56 | 0:24:02 | |
produce, but it was then rewritten over one weekend, reversing each of | 0:24:02 | 0:24:08 | |
the findings. It suddenly became much easier reading for the police. | 0:24:08 | 0:24:12 | |
Days after the rewrite, Al Hutchinson, Jim Coupland, and two | 0:24:13 | 0:24:18 | |
other senior directors met the dal tans and -- Daltons and read out | 0:24:18 | 0:24:23 | |
the revised conclusions. We feel that the delegation who | 0:24:23 | 0:24:30 | |
came from Belfast, came to basically sell us a pup. I think | 0:24:30 | 0:24:37 | |
those changes were made to remove or minimise the impact of the fact | 0:24:37 | 0:24:45 | |
that the RUC, Special Branch, knew about that bomb. | 0:24:45 | 0:24:49 | |
I'm in no doubt from within the office that that there were | 0:24:49 | 0:24:54 | |
concerns about the changing of that report. The redrafts led to less | 0:24:54 | 0:24:57 | |
criticism of the police? There was no deliberate lowering of criticism | 0:24:57 | 0:25:01 | |
of the police. That is not an issue. Well, reports are changed | 0:25:01 | 0:25:04 | |
throughout the process, but they are only changed this response to | 0:25:04 | 0:25:07 | |
evidence or evaluation of that evidence and certainly observed | 0:25:07 | 0:25:11 | |
they are changed. They are changed both ways to favour the police, to | 0:25:11 | 0:25:15 | |
criticise the police, it depends on the evidence. It is always evidence | 0:25:15 | 0:25:18 | |
based. The the impact of the changes in | 0:25:18 | 0:25:22 | |
that report were to make it less critical of the police and change | 0:25:22 | 0:25:25 | |
the clunetionz given to families and the representatives. We weren't | 0:25:25 | 0:25:29 | |
clear as to why changes were made because there was no clear evidence | 0:25:29 | 0:25:34 | |
as to why or what new evidence had come to light. | 0:25:34 | 0:25:39 | |
He couldn't find any paper trail. It looks like he didn't ask anybody | 0:25:39 | 0:25:43 | |
involved in the process for any explanations. If he had, they would | 0:25:43 | 0:25:45 | |
have provided him. Is there a paper trail? Well, no, | 0:25:45 | 0:25:51 | |
there isn't. That appears to be the issue with that particular file. | 0:25:51 | 0:25:54 | |
go to the Police Ombudsman and them accept the case, it was like | 0:25:54 | 0:25:58 | |
brilliant, we're going to get the answers we need and then last year | 0:25:58 | 0:26:03 | |
when they came down in May with the story and read us that report, we | 0:26:03 | 0:26:10 | |
were just gutted. We just felt, it was a real hard blow. We felt let | 0:26:10 | 0:26:15 | |
down. Really let down. | 0:26:15 | 0:26:20 | |
Because they were set-up to give us answers and they just gave us more | 0:26:20 | 0:26:24 | |
questions. Those questions have multiplied | 0:26:24 | 0:26:29 | |
because the ombudsman's office was divided over how to carry the | 0:26:29 | 0:26:34 | |
investigation forward. The Dalton family was told investigators | 0:26:34 | 0:26:38 | |
received legal advice that former RUC officers could be arrested and | 0:26:38 | 0:26:42 | |
questioned about allegations that they had broken the law by failing | 0:26:42 | 0:26:47 | |
to act. That step would have outraged | 0:26:47 | 0:26:52 | |
retired officers. But it didn't happen. Investigators were directed | 0:26:52 | 0:26:55 | |
to treat retired officers as witnesses and not suspects. | 0:26:55 | 0:27:03 | |
Did you arrest any retired officers for questioning? The answer is no. | 0:27:03 | 0:27:09 | |
And did you consider doing so? we'll leave that to the final | 0:27:09 | 0:27:16 | |
report. I think that all avenues of inquiry should have been available | 0:27:16 | 0:27:24 | |
to the investigating officers. I feel that any confidence that we in | 0:27:24 | 0:27:30 | |
the ombudsman's office has gone. When you think of the spirit in | 0:27:30 | 0:27:33 | |
which the ombudsman's office was set-up and that spirit no longer | 0:27:33 | 0:27:39 | |
exists within the ombudsman's office as far as I see. | 0:27:39 | 0:27:42 | |
Baroness Nuala O'Loan is well acquainted with the issue of | 0:27:42 | 0:27:47 | |
retired officers. She felt some of her investigations were stymied | 0:27:47 | 0:27:51 | |
because former officers would not co-operate even as witnesses. When | 0:27:51 | 0:27:57 | |
her term as Police Ombudsman expired in 2007, she left behind a | 0:27:57 | 0:28:02 | |
legally required review with 26 recommendations for strengthening | 0:28:02 | 0:28:07 | |
the powers of the ombudsman. One of the recommendations you made | 0:28:07 | 0:28:12 | |
you could compel retired officers to come to interview? We should be | 0:28:12 | 0:28:19 | |
able to do that because they are a big resource in terms of the Police | 0:28:19 | 0:28:22 | |
Service of Northern Ireland. Whilst they understand there were many | 0:28:22 | 0:28:28 | |
cases for them a long time ago, it was nfrl very important that we got | 0:28:28 | 0:28:35 | |
the co-operation and in some cases they were non co-operative. | 0:28:35 | 0:28:40 | |
Her proposal was opposed by retired officers, but when Al Hutchinson | 0:28:40 | 0:28:44 | |
became Police Ombudsman, he accepted 19 of Nuala O'Loan's 26 | 0:28:44 | 0:28:47 | |
recommendations including the measure to compel former officers | 0:28:47 | 0:28:52 | |
to speak to investigators. As discussions about the proposals | 0:28:52 | 0:28:57 | |
dragged on for almost two years, Mr Hutchinson delegated the work to | 0:28:57 | 0:29:04 | |
Jim Coupland and another official. In October 2009, Mr Cope land | 0:29:04 | 0:29:07 | |
signed a memo with the Northern Ireland Office spelling out the | 0:29:07 | 0:29:11 | |
original 26 proposals, but the memo told the minister that Al | 0:29:11 | 0:29:15 | |
Hutchinson was accepting just four. There was one problem - he didn't | 0:29:15 | 0:29:20 | |
know. It was presented as an agreed document between the Northern | 0:29:20 | 0:29:24 | |
Ireland Office and between your office and it was signed off | 0:29:24 | 0:29:32 | |
between the Director of NIO and an official. I didn't know about it | 0:29:32 | 0:29:35 | |
and that was brought to our attention about December 2009. | 0:29:35 | 0:29:41 | |
Well, when I saw the actual document in December 2009, I would | 0:29:41 | 0:29:51 | |
0:29:51 | 0:29:52 | ||
say that that was the beginning of my loss of confidence in what was | 0:29:52 | 0:30:00 | |
going on behind the scenes. The information presented to the | 0:30:00 | 0:30:05 | |
minister would suggest that those recommendations had the full force, | 0:30:05 | 0:30:11 | |
the full support, of the Police Ombudsman, myself and our staff and | 0:30:11 | 0:30:16 | |
that was fundamentally untrue. In fact, it only had the support of | 0:30:16 | 0:30:22 | |
one member of staff, the senior director and I found that amazing. | 0:30:22 | 0:30:26 | |
I was quite shocked. It would appear that Jim Coupland | 0:30:26 | 0:30:31 | |
was in the driving seat, rather than you? I am ultimately | 0:30:31 | 0:30:35 | |
responsible for that. If you are saying that Jim Coupland bears | 0:30:35 | 0:30:37 | |
responsibility for that, no he doesn't. | 0:30:37 | 0:30:43 | |
Were you surprised that 22 of your 26 recommendations were rejected? | 0:30:43 | 0:30:47 | |
find it very odd. The power to compel retired | 0:30:47 | 0:30:50 | |
officers was among the 22 recommendations Jim Coupland said | 0:30:50 | 0:30:56 | |
the ombudsman had rejected. That proposal has been put back on the | 0:30:56 | 0:31:00 | |
table by Al Hutchinson. It is all going forward in the next five year | 0:31:00 | 0:31:05 | |
review. It is a rather mute point and by the end of October that will | 0:31:05 | 0:31:07 | |
be back to the Minister for Consulting. | 0:31:07 | 0:31:13 | |
The Northern Ireland Office said its officials acted in good faith | 0:31:13 | 0:31:16 | |
thinking the ombudsman was aware of changes to the review, but Sam | 0:31:16 | 0:31:22 | |
Pollock believes the work of Nuala O'Loan made them determined to | 0:31:22 | 0:31:25 | |
stall greater power going to the ombudsman. | 0:31:25 | 0:31:30 | |
I do believe the strategy behind what happened over the five year | 0:31:30 | 0:31:39 | |
review was wholy in the hands of the Northern Ireland Office and no | 0:31:39 | 0:31:44 | |
one else. There seemed to be some view at that level that the wings | 0:31:44 | 0:31:49 | |
of the office had to be clipped or that the office couldn't continue | 0:31:49 | 0:31:58 | |
to act in such a strong fashion and therefore, the recommendations were | 0:31:58 | 0:32:05 | |
kicked into touch. In 2007, Nuala O'Loan published a | 0:32:05 | 0:32:13 | |
controversial report into the activities of a UVF informer, | 0:32:13 | 0:32:16 | |
titled Operation Ballast, the report said he been protected and | 0:32:16 | 0:32:20 | |
paid by Special Branch while leading the gang involved in more | 0:32:20 | 0:32:23 | |
than ten murders. Senior police officers from the time told me that | 0:32:23 | 0:32:28 | |
intelligence agencies were deeply alarmed because the revelations | 0:32:28 | 0:32:33 | |
exposed the work of an active informer. | 0:32:33 | 0:32:38 | |
It was the kind of case that Al Hutchinson has described as toxic | 0:32:38 | 0:32:43 | |
for the ombudsman's office. Now all of the historic cases, | 0:32:43 | 0:32:47 | |
during my time and before mip time, have -- my time have all generated | 0:32:47 | 0:32:51 | |
controversy. The police are either upset or the families are upset, it | 0:32:51 | 0:32:55 | |
is hard to be in the middle, but the salvation and the way to go, of | 0:32:55 | 0:33:00 | |
course, is evidence based. If we can evidence a fact then we should | 0:33:00 | 0:33:03 | |
report it against the police or against the family. | 0:33:03 | 0:33:08 | |
But cases like Operation Ballast bridge the past and the present. | 0:33:08 | 0:33:13 | |
The RUC and the PSNI. I have learned of a similar case involving | 0:33:13 | 0:33:18 | |
an IRA informer that could turn out to be just as significant. It has | 0:33:18 | 0:33:25 | |
been with Al Hutchinson for four years. In 2007, former Chief | 0:33:25 | 0:33:29 | |
Constable, Sir Hugh Orde sent the ombudsman details of this case for | 0:33:29 | 0:33:34 | |
investigation. Jim Coupland decided there were no resources available | 0:33:34 | 0:33:40 | |
to pursue the case. Sam Pollock was astonished. | 0:33:40 | 0:33:46 | |
There is nothing more important really than a referral from a Chief | 0:33:46 | 0:33:54 | |
Constable. And it beggars belief that such a matter could have been | 0:33:54 | 0:34:03 | |
shelved or relegated or just not dealt with. I don't accept that the | 0:34:04 | 0:34:09 | |
resources would be an issue. That shocked me. I was surprised that | 0:34:09 | 0:34:13 | |
the decision not to investigate it further was taken on the basis of a | 0:34:13 | 0:34:18 | |
lack of resources. There is other criteria and that should have been | 0:34:18 | 0:34:22 | |
factored into the decision making. On the list of of priorities where | 0:34:22 | 0:34:26 | |
does a Chief Constable referral sit? Oh, it would sit very high. It | 0:34:26 | 0:34:30 | |
would sit very high. Because what you are looking at is the | 0:34:30 | 0:34:34 | |
seriousness of the issue and the other things are that the | 0:34:34 | 0:34:38 | |
legislation says the Police Ombudsman should investigate, so | 0:34:38 | 0:34:42 | |
you simply must investigate. It just goes without saying. It has to | 0:34:42 | 0:34:45 | |
be done. In a statement to pot light Sir | 0:34:45 | 0:34:55 | |
0:34:55 | 0:35:02 | ||
Hugh Orde -- Spotlight Sir Hugh Well, resources are always an issue. | 0:35:02 | 0:35:08 | |
If I recall, that's a case that spanned history and current, the | 0:35:08 | 0:35:14 | |
troubles and again, resources are key to this, that's why I need more | 0:35:14 | 0:35:16 | |
resources, the devolved administration has to deliver. | 0:35:16 | 0:35:21 | |
Your former former Chief Executive, Sam Pollock, said it beggars belief | 0:35:21 | 0:35:26 | |
that such a referralal was not investigated immediately. Well, I | 0:35:26 | 0:35:31 | |
haven't heard Sam say that before, so I'm not sure what his comment is | 0:35:31 | 0:35:35 | |
with respect. We asked Nuala O'Loan about this and she said if | 0:35:35 | 0:35:38 | |
necessary, you suspend investigations into other cases, | 0:35:38 | 0:35:42 | |
you prioritise and you free up resources. Well, with respect, nul | 0:35:42 | 0:35:47 | |
la is not here. Somebody has to make those decisions and the | 0:35:47 | 0:35:51 | |
decision was taken and anything is open to review. | 0:35:51 | 0:35:59 | |
Did you ask for more resources for this referralal? No, we didn't. We | 0:35:59 | 0:36:04 | |
asked for more money to deal with all the historic cases. Well, | 0:36:04 | 0:36:08 | |
sitting with 128 cases which one do you want me to deal with? | 0:36:08 | 0:36:12 | |
business tute inside the om -- dispute inside the ombudsman's | 0:36:13 | 0:36:18 | |
office descend nood a bitter mess. Senior Director of Investigations | 0:36:18 | 0:36:23 | |
ux Jim Coupland took a complaint against Sam Pollock who was given a | 0:36:23 | 0:36:29 | |
written warning. He resigned the same day. Jim Coupland went on sick | 0:36:29 | 0:36:34 | |
leave for over a year. He faced disciplinary proceedings after he | 0:36:34 | 0:36:39 | |
admitted lying to an investigator. We asked Jim Coupland to take part | 0:36:39 | 0:36:45 | |
in this programme, but he declined saying he would like to engage with | 0:36:45 | 0:36:49 | |
the issues we raised, but he said medical reasons and legislation | 0:36:49 | 0:36:56 | |
prevented him from doing so. Tonight, the crisis in the | 0:36:56 | 0:36:59 | |
ombudsman's office is far from being resolved. Al Hutchinson is | 0:36:59 | 0:37:04 | |
due to leave next June and his two most senior officials have gone. I | 0:37:04 | 0:37:09 | |
have learned that just last week, Jim Coupland followed Sam Pollock | 0:37:09 | 0:37:17 | |
by handing in his resignation, but the ombudsman insists he can fix | 0:37:17 | 0:37:21 | |
things. I urged Mr Hutchinson to fix what | 0:37:21 | 0:37:28 | |
was wrong and to fix it quickly. I had urged the minister to support | 0:37:28 | 0:37:32 | |
the Police Ombudsman in ensuring that it was fixed quickly in the | 0:37:32 | 0:37:35 | |
interests of Northern Ireland and in the interests of the police | 0:37:35 | 0:37:45 | |
0:37:45 | 0:37:45 | ||
service and in the interests of the office. Now I feel let down by so | 0:37:45 | 0:37:50 | |
much of what has happened. I would have to say on a personal level and | 0:37:50 | 0:37:57 | |
on a professional level I think he should resign. | 0:37:57 | 0:38:02 | |
And resign with immediate effect? Yes. | 0:38:02 | 0:38:07 | |
Well, those are Sam's words. I disagree with them and I am | 0:38:07 | 0:38:16 | |
disappointed to hear that. He left the office of his own own violition | 0:38:16 | 0:38:19 | |
and I'm going to stay to see this through. Whoever sits in this chair | 0:38:19 | 0:38:27 | |
is going to be subject to all of this, Nuala was before me. I am now. | 0:38:27 | 0:38:32 | |
The next one will be. So the toxic legacy of the past, because | 0:38:32 | 0:38:35 | |
politically it has been unresolved, is damaging for the office. | 0:38:35 | 0:38:39 | |
When Al Hutchinson leaves, the first and Deputy First Ministers | 0:38:39 | 0:38:44 |