Special Spotlight

Hello, and welcome to Spotlight Special. As ever, we have invited

an impressive panel of movers and shakers to discuss the issues of

the day with our studio audience. Arlene Foster is the Minister for

enterprise, trade and investment at Stormont and a DUP MLA for

Fermanagh and south Tyrone. Raymond McCartney is an MLA, Mike Nesbitt

is his party's economy spokesman and a former Victims Commissioner.

Conall McDevitt lost out to his fellow South Belfast MLA by a

narrow head in last weekend's SDLP leadership race. Is his party's

spokesman on policing and education and finally, David McWilliams is a

Dublin-based economist, broadcaster and best-selling author whose views

on the demise of the Celtic tiger and the crisis in the eurozone area

are widely sought in Ireland and beyond. That's our line-up for

tonight's Spotlight Special. APPLAUSE.

Now, as always, tonight's questions have been chosen by members of our

audience but you can also have your say at home. You can text your

comments throughout the programme. You can also phone and e-mail us

and you can tweet comments to us. The details are on the screen.

Calls cost up to 5p per minute from most landlines, calls from mobiles

may cost more. Our first question is from Karl, who is a student from

Belfast. Given the situation in Europe and Ireland what's more

likely, a united Ireland or united Europe? OK, off the back, of course,

of financial turmoil in Europe and news this evening that the Italian

Prime Minister, Silvio Berlusconi, is to resign once he gets a package

for tackling the Italian situation agreed in the parliament. Arlene

Foster, that really has just happened very recently, within the

last few hours. What about the wider situation, and implications

for us on this island. United Ireland or Europe? I don't think

either is going to happen any time soon, I don't think either are

going to happen, because the united Europe ideal came about through the

federalism issue and I am glad to say that the UK stayed out of the

eurozone. There are many here who wanted the kufplt to go into the

eurozone, we have the stability of sterling at present. What you are

seeing across the eurozone are countries strugglingling with the

Sovereign debt their countries have and we should be concerned about

that here in in Northern Ireland because it will have an impact on

us here whether Greece defaults, whether the Italians default,

because there are a lot of companies who are - a lot of banks

that have invested in those countries and that will have an

impact on us here in Northern Ireland. A lot of our companies do

business with those countries as well and that will have an impact

in relation to our export strategy which I have been pushing very

strongly, as well. Aren't we all being dragged into the middle, into

the European centre, if not politically, certainly

economically? Under the control, effectively of Germany? Well, I

think it's very interesting to see what our Prime Minister was saying

today about Germany and the fact that the Germans are standing back

from the eurozone bail-out and very much a need for Germany to get

involved in that eurozone bail-out, to take responsibility. Because

Germany is the main player in all of those interests right across

Europe, whether it's Greece or Italy. But you are right t will

have an impact in Northern Ireland, but we should be glad we are not in

the eurozone, we will be affected by everything going on there and

that's to the second part of the question in relation to the chill

wind we have been feeling in Northern Ireland, in respect of

what's happened in the Republic of Ireland, be that from our small

businesses feeling very sore about not being able to export and get,

as you know, it's our closest export destination, and one that we

have been feeling sore about because a lot of those small

companies haven't been able to export or indeed haven't been paid

by companies in the Republic of Ireland and it is a huge difficulty

for us, never mind the access to finance and the banking

difficulties as well which David will want to touch on, I am sure.

want to hear from Conall McDevitt. United Ireland, Europe? We know how

we will get a united Ireland, because there is going to be

referendum and if the people vote they'll have it. The real issue

around Europe is there's never been a greater need for Europe to unite,

for Governments to unite in a common purpose, to lay down a new

law across Europe, whether it's inside the eurozone or whether it's

on the fringes of the eurozone like the British pound is and this is

all it is, on the fringes and that new law needs to be this: It needs

to be that never again will we allow governments, national

governments or a union like the European Union to be run through

the back door by corrupt bankers. Because that is what has us where

we are. What has us where we are is not a failure for once of politics,

it's a failure of desperately bad and greedy banking. A financial

system that corrupted itself and brought, as of tonight, at least

three governments down, possibly more. Surely it's a political

failure, managed badly by politicians across Europe. We have

lost two Prime Minister this is week alone in Greece and now Italy.

You can't say it's not a political failure, it is. Let me be honest,

the regulatory system failed, of course it did, and the UK

Government had this light touch regulation in London to attract the

world's biggest banks and it failed Europe. The UK Government's light

touch regulation didn't just fail the UK, it failed the whole of the

European Union but the real corruption at the heart of this is

outside of Government, it's in the back offices of money trading and

other types of trading and it isn't until governments unite and resolve

to change the rules of the game so as we can unite Europe around its

people, rather than around banks that we won't come out of this mess.

David McWilliams? Three issues going on. There's an economic

problem, a debt problem, and a leadership problem. The economic

problem is there's no growth in Europe. Growth slowed down. Once

growth slows down all bets are off. Because you can't pay your debt.

Consequently then off growth problem, plus a debt problem and

that's typically fixed by political leadership, but what you have with

respect to Germany and France and the rest of Europe is no political

leadership. So you take those together, you then have people like

Papandreou saying if we have no leadership in Europe why don't we

go to people in Greece and the elite in Europe, France and Germany,

show their true colours last Thursday by saying no way will we

go to the people most affected by these decisions. So, for many

people, both let's say in the Republic of Ireland and other

European members, who was an unusual move last Thursday because

what it did do for the first time is Sarkozy and Merkel said if you

want an opinion on this Greece, the opinion has to be are you going to

be in the euro or not? Rather than defuse the situation, they actually

amplified the situation. Now, what the politicians don't want people

to know is that at every single phase of this European crisis,

every rescue package is actually a bail-out of private, professional

investors by taxpayers, the vast majority of whom never took out the

loans in the first place. APPLAUSE. The minute you are afraid of

democracy, the people, it freaks out others. For example, the

financial markets who say hold on a second f they're not prepared to go

to the people, what we are going to have is yet another shunting on of

the debt to somebody else. Does that all mean, very briefly, that

we are moving towards greater European Union? Whether we like it

or don't like it, is that an inevitability? There's no appetite

in Europe, popular appetite, for greater fiscal integration. We have

had four plebicites in years. Netherlands, France, Ireland all

voted against further integration. There is a sense and disconnect

between the top of Europe and the people and there is a sense on most

people that they don't want further integration and that's before the

crisis. Think about how Germany would vote if asked do you want to

write an open cheque indefinitely for Italy, Greece, Spain, Portugal,

the Republic of Ireland? It's not going to happen. What does it mean

for people in Northern Ireland, in terms of where they should be

looking at the moment? Those want to look towards London, hitch their

wagon to the Bank of England and to the Treasury in London. There are

are others who say we should be looking at Dublin. That would take

a serious doze of of nose-holding for a lot of people. I like that

expression! Of all the things that Gordon Brown did, and he did many

stupid things, one of the deliverest things was to do a

classic Whitehall ruse on the euro. Put up five tests and - he played

for time, he did the sensible thing, let's figure out how this works out.

What he has been vindicated in is that the first crisis, major crisis

of the euro, has not been handled well. I believe that Britain is

better outside it. OK. Mike Nesbitt, you are your party's economy

spokesman. I believe it's moving in a different direction to what we

are trying to do in Northern Ireland, it's a clash what we do is

he Assembly is legislate, and enable people to be different and

diverse. Europe seems to want to homogenise everybody and I don't

think the people of Europe want it any more, if they did. If you came

down to my constituency, you wouldn't find a single fisherman

who was grateful for what Europe does for the fishing industry.

Would you be pushed to find a single farmer and we have some of

the best farmland in the whole of Europe Europe who is grateful to

the European Union and we get something like �300 million a year

out of Europe for single farm payments. We also get a lot of

money for cohesion. We have had three peace programmes worth

hundreds of millions of euros. Yet, the appreciation of Europe isn't

there, so there is a fundamental issue and perhaps Europe would do

better to do a little less, better. Do you separate out the political

unity or what David referred to as fiscal unity, they're not terribly

closely linked? People used to look at Europe and say they were linked

and it was Germany, France, Spain, Italy who were all pulling in the

same direction and it is now abundantly clear they are not.

Let's go back to the question, it's about what is more likely here, a

The opportunity for Europe uniting is diminishing by the day. What has

been thrown up his around economic sovereignty. The sovereign

governments are being undermined by events outside their control. It is

important that that issue is raised. Who has the right to choose the

political leadership? That should be one of the issues that we

address. The people should be sovereign. They should decide.

you think that that either of government is weakened because they

had to take money from the UK government? They are weakened

because in a time of austerity they are going to bail out other

countries. Instead of pumping the money back into the economy the am

now going to give it to other countries. A quick word? Regarding

the bailout from Britain, the problem for Britain was that one of

the banks have a high exposure and the calculation was it was better

to make a down-payment on that and hopefully get it back than write it

all off. It was good business for the Treasury. I want to get some

views from the audience. Let us go to the person who asked the

question. Some people are washing rather than seeing what is more

likely. It shows there is a clear divide in Northern Irish politics.

Thank you. Of the two options, I'd do not think either will happen. In

Northern Ireland we need to create jobs so that we can control our own

destiny. Two quick comment. There are 27 countries in the European

Union. All countries in this heat union it should Shea goods - back

trade goods with all other countries. This is why the European

Union is in crisis. All the countries are not working together.

Thank you. My cousin has lived in Greece for many years. They say

that prices have gone up ever since the joined Europe. Next question.

Can we afford to give 60 million to encourage prison officers to

retire? That package was announced today. Some people think it is

attractive. The idea is to get people to take voluntary redundancy.

Raymond McCartney - �60 million, can we afford it? It is something

which we have to do. It is well known that there is a need for

reform. It is well accepted across northern Ireland that the cost of

other prisons is too high. This will ensure that we have a prison

service fit for the 21st century. For too long the emphasis on our

prisons was around security. For too long there was no

rehabilitation processes. We find that many people who leave our

prisons are reoffending. In the long term a you are laying down the

foundations. There will be long- term gains. You see �60 million is

worth paying if it achieves what you see needs to be achieved?

real terms that is the price that needs to be paid. Some people may

feel that is too generous and there is an idea at around that. But the

package is necessary if we are going to reform the system. That

reform is necessary. What if enough prison officers do not volunteer to

leave under this package? It is wrong to report the size what may

happen. There are a number of months for prison staff to take up

the offer. If the offer is not taken up then we find ourselves in

another place. Reduce support compulsory redundancies? We need to

change the culture of our prisons. If the ball on to the process does

not work then we find ourselves in a new situation. OK. The members of

the Prison Service did suffer a lot in the last 29 years. There are

many members of the Prison Service today who are facing threats and a

fat to move homes. If the scheme is to work it has to be unattractive

scheme. Initial proposals were not attractive. We believe that this is

moving in the right direction. We believe that a voluntary scheme is

the right way. We would not support a compulsory scheme. We believe

that people must want to move on. We do not want to be in a situation,

a situation that we found within the police, and that is the

situation of being short staffed. It is important that we have the

staff. You were not short staffed. There was not their experience

there. You are saying no compulsory redundancies? It has to be

attractive to facilitate officers to move. A lot of teachers who have

been made redundant this year will look at this package and wonder.

is not the same. We all agree that reform is needed. But this seems to

be building the lily. This is a political deal. A lot of people

will wonder if that is fair. Do you not think that there is a

recognition that these officers have lived under for the last 14

years? This is 2011. Do you not accept that there are still person

under threat in the prison service today? I never said that there were

not people. We have to approach all these decisions with fairness and

equity. That is what we're doing. If you are facing cutbacks,

teachers are losing their jobs, they will not get this deal. We

will take a close look at this. I am not comfortable sitting here

looking at a very enhanced package for one small section of the public

service when other sections of the public service are not getting this

deal. David but Williams, it is also an economic question, because

the question is can we afford to give �60 million? Money is involved.

Sometimes when you come to Belfast to do not expect that answers you

get. The Sinn Fein spokesperson was saying it is a good thing to

eradicate the memory of the Prison Board. Arlene said something

similar. They are on the same side for different reasons. I am not

sure if you can afford it, but when I look at the rest of the UK and

the austerity that is being imposed there, it would seem to be that to

give special service to one particular group is at odds with

what is happening to the rest of you. Teachers were not targeted by

the IRA. The ought school bus driver was targeted by the IRA. --

the occasional school bus driver. A friend of mine had a very bad

stroke over 10 years ago and that has never been recognised as

following riots duty in the Maze prison. As we make this transition

we should be as generous as possible to those who put

themselves in harm's way. Is this a generous? It is less expensive than

the Patten proposals. I feel sorry for prison -- for police officers

who will look enviously at this deal. What we have not yet seen his

that some of the people who take this deal will only be 50 years old.

One of the things that the police deal recognised was the need for

rehabilitation and retraining. I would like to see that extended to

prison officers. That would entail education and a mental help. This

is the 24th anniversary of the Enniskillen bombing. You cannot

just airbrushed this. For too long there was an emphasis on security

policy. Why? Because of the IRA. The reason I said there was an

emphasis on security is because the we are prisons were run, their debt

ratios were the highest. But you were responsible for it.

recognise why there was a security issue in prisons. That has now

moved on. We cannot perpetuate that situation. An independent report

has accepted that. If we do not change this we are wasting money

every day of the week. I want to go back to Declan who also had an

economic emphasis on his question. What do you make of the answers?

There are a number of points. There is a projection for the next 10

years. Projections can go anywhere. The last projection was that the

economy was doing well and good for we are now. 60 million could be

better spent on a dementia unit. We have no money for suicide awareness.

Schools are being closed. This is an issue that has to be tackled and

it will cost money. There is nothing to say that the prisoners

who come out will not reoffend. This idea that every prison officer

will be dead wrong -- dead on. There is a discrepancy between the

private sector and the public sector. Thousands of people in the

private sector are losing their jobs and there is no enhancement

for those people. All we are hearing about his exceptional

circumstances. Every unique family that loses a job is in exceptional

circumstances. Is that there be to treat it? I feel sorry for all the

prison officers that died and were injured. At �60 million is very

high. It is small compared to what was paid for the policing issue.

would pay for a hospital. You do not be it is acceptable question

mark I do not. We will leave it there. Now to our next question.

straightforward question. Does storm and need an opposition?

of as are probably wondering what Stormont is for these days. We have

still not seen any decent legislation after six months. I

lost their head with this today! What I worry about is the fact that

there seems to be not enough accountability. There seems to be

not enough power with the people. The time has come, because when we

next go to elect an Assembly, the time has come to have an honest

debate about a system that is capable of being accountable. We

can talk about that in the years ahead. But I do think we are

reaching the point where we need to get more and to storm it than just

stability. In order to get more out of storeman than just stability, to

get it to work for the people, it will need to be better held to

Your new partier leader -- party leader said that the regime at the

moment, which is headed up by Sinn Fein and the DUP is like Afghan

warLords dividing up the spoils, was he right, is it as bad as that?

A lot of us inside the Assembly really do feel that this is a two-

party Government with another three parties being put in there to make

the two big ones lock good. If I could finish by the reality of life

at Stormont. We don't have seven years into devolution a strategy to

tackle sectarianism. The answer is opposition. Not necessarily, we

have the system we have, Mark, that's the system the people voted

for when they voted in the Good Friday Agreement F we are going to

change the system to be fair to us all we need to agree to change it

all of us, what I am saying is I am not afraid of having an honest

debate about getting a better system than the one we have today

but we are not going to run away from our responsibilities and our

duty and our opportunity to represent our people around that

table. Might that new system involved you and the Ulster

Unionists and maybe the Alliance Party forming an official

opposition? It Might involve me and other people forming the Government

and it might be a more accountable Government and one capable of

agreeing a programme before it sits down. You would need to win an

awful lot more seats. Not one like this one which six months in

doesn't have a programme for Government. Mike Nesbitt? I don't

want to be in opposition, I don't want to the Ulster Unionists to be

in opposition, the principle is good. 13 years ago the aim of the

Good Friday Agreement was to be inclusive, to get everybody

exclusively into the political process and to do that you had to

build an exceedingly big political cake. And that, I believe has

worked 13 years on. The institutions are pretty stable. But

they have yet to really deliver, particularly on the big ticket

issues like the sports stadium, like the reform of public

administration. So, if it's all stable and it's mature, the logical

next step is to say we will go from mandatory coalition to volume

Torrey -- voluntary coalition with opposition T works in just about

every country in the world, why not for stphus why are we so better

than everybody else we want to do it differently? So, that's an

interesting thought, Arlene, is it? You know, I am sitting here

listening to the Ulster Unionist party and the SDLP who gave us

mandatory coalition in - these were the two guys that created the

system. In actual fact, the DUP had to take these guys to court to get

Ministerial papers back in 2001, so it's very interesting listening to

these two guys who when it was working for them, when they were

the two largest parties they were happy with it, they were OK with it.

Now they're the two smaller parties, hold on a second, we are not that

happy with it. You know, the DUP's been asking for reform of the

system since 1998. We asked for reform in 1998, at the time of the

Belfast Agreement. We wanted more accountability in the Belfast

Agreement. It's why we went to the Leeds Castle talks, it's why we

went to the St Andrews agreement and brought about accountability

through the system of Government here and can I say, there are far

too many Government departments as a result of the Belfast Agreement,

there are too many MLAs as a result of the agreement. Let's get it

sorted out, let's get a smaller Government for Northern Ireland

because we need a smaller Government for Northern Ireland and

the people want a smaller Government for Northern Ireland. I

am not disagreeing but I am saying the hypocrisy of you two talking

about... Hypocrisy from the DUP... I don't know what you are laughing

about. The question asked does Stormont need an opposition, well I

think that's the question for those who want to form opposition. But as

the system is designed, then it doesn't appear to be any place for

opposition, if people want to go into opposition that's their choice,

but it's interesting in the first number of years and Arlene has said

this, there was never any talk of need for opposition or encouraging

parties to go into opposition. The only thing that's changed in the

intervening years is that the SDLP and the Ulster Unionists are no

longer... It's because of the way you are operating the system.

what happened Mark, and this has been exposed, at a time when this

was designed, the SDLP and the Ulster Unionists thought they they

would be the lead parties. The people have decided that the DUP

and Sinn Fein are now the lead parties and these two parties just

don't seem to want to accept it. What they do is they carp from the

sides F they want to go into opposition, the opportunity is

there. What else changed? Do you not remember those years ago the

DUP said they would never, never, speak to you? Revert to type, type

- revert to type, Mike. Final point from Raymond, then David. The need

for for an opposition is the choice and desire of the parties. If the

two parties, or any party want to go into opposition they can do it.

The only thing that's changed up to March 2007 is the fact that the two

parties on my right and left are no longer in control and they felt

felt when they designed the agreement that this would put them

at the centre for ever, the people have decided differently. David?

Obviously, a little bit of a spectator here in this regard T

seems to me that from the question that was asked that the system has

been quite successful, but not successful enough. Quite successful

in bringing stable institutions, but not successful enough in going

to the next phase, you know, to answer your question, every

parliamentary democracy needs an opposition and a functioning

opposition and an opposition that works and is a viable alternative,

that's the nature of the beast. But Northern Ireland seems to me it

still is a special case, that if you are saying we have got this far,

but maybe to go to a voluntary coalition basis is a step too far

that in fact the stability isn't as stable as we think. So, to come

back to think it's a sign of success, but on the other hand,

it's a sign that things aren't successful enough. OK. Thank you.

Let's hear from Mark. I think it does need an opposition, we are

talking about delivery and efficiency and I think

accountability was another thing, I think Stormont opposition would

deliver that. Thank you very much. The gentleman there. You have got

the UUP and SDLP talking about the evolution of the St Andrews

agreement. Should the priority not be to implement the agreement first

and ensure there's an Irish language act introduced? Slightly

off the subject, but thank you. I want to stay with the audience.

don't think we need opposition, I think we need co-operation and if

we had we had co-operation maybe Northern Ireland would benefit.

APPLAUSE. You would like to see the parties involved in the Government

working more closely together? We have a set-up where we can co-

operate and now all of a sudden you want an opposition. Co-operate

together and we might all benefit. OK. Thank you. I feel what we need

from the DUP and Sinn Fein also is not so much - they've been given

this power, but could you please exercise the power with a degree of

dignity and not lecture to us. Arlene, you are sitting lecturing

tonight. More dignity in the part you have been given would go down

fantastically. In what fashion? You are talking about the electorate of

Northern Ireland who returned... The point about the hypocrisy, I

think the hypocrisy of the DUP for all those years, I am sure Mike

Nesbitt can give me exact years, that you were outside of the

process, now that you are at the centre everything must revolve

around you. It's stomach-wrenching at times. A quick response. I have

seen this position, I have a unique position because I have seen it

from both sides, I was in the Ulster Unionist party, I have been

in the DUP. The The Ulster Unionist party Minister comes to meetings

with us, at our choice, at our choice every time there's an

executive meeting the Ulster Unionist Minister comes to our

discussions. Do you not think that's inclusive of us? Yet there's

no acknowledgement of that at all. No acknowledgement. That's because

the Ulster Unionist want to make party political points in relation

to the issue. Sinn Fein, DUP, the two largest parties. What are they

frightened of in an opposition? Thank you very much indeed. Thank

you for the question. Next question is from Kathy who is a PR manager

from Belfast. I would like to ask the panel in the present economic

climate do the panel feel that spending a million to bring the

music awards to Belfast was justified? We will hear from Arlene

in a moment or two. Arlene is involved in tourism in Northern

Ireland, and has responsibility for that and various organisations

within her department were a part of that. Let's hear from David

McWilliams. I don't know where you were at the weekend? My perspective

was framed by my 11-year-old daughter who when she heard I was

going to Belfast thought I was meeting lady Gaga. She was meant to

be on the panel! I think it is money very well spent actually. I

think that what it does to the pwrapb of Belfast -- of Belfast, to

project the brand out to a very, very wide audience, executed by MTV,

probably one of the most commercially savvy television

operations in the world, does untold positives that you can't

quantify. Countries like Ireland, where it's north or south, we have

to deal in the world of soft power. That's the power of persuasion, the

power of changing people's minds, the power of brand, the power of

perceptions. What sort of place is that? Now, for Northern Ireland to

have catapulted from the Northern Ireland, the image was 20 years ago

- actually the image didn't change for a long time, to being a place

where, not only does the awards happen, but all these people are

happy to come, I believe will reap a rich dividend for you in the same

way as Dublin over the years changed its image. We got enormous

amounts of tourism in, enormous amounts of different types of

industries in and all this very soft, but very explicit changing in

the image of Northern Ireland and Belfast is an enormous positive

that you cannot quantify. So worth the money? Absolutely. I think it's

worth the money at two levels, for all the reasons David said in terms

of repositioning Belfast and this region in the world's eye and

that's very, very important. It's also, frankly, worth it just

because it lifted the mood in the city. I know a lot of people down

at the Snow Patrol gig, 15,000 there, waking up on Monday morning

with no job to go to, it's not a great life for them at the moment

but it's bet they are week because of the memory of having had that.

If we can follow through, and I do want to pay tribute to the tourist

board and to the work in this regard, it's been good, if we can

follow through and get a lot of sustainable tourism coming in

behind the investment that was made around MTV, maybe some of those

people will get a job next summer. The tourist board very involved,

the council very involved. Have you put a figure on what was spent by

Northern Ireland PLC in actually making the event happen? Well, it

was, the tourist board and Belfast City Council partnered and put in I

think over �1 million into making it all happen, but the estimates

are that �10million will have come into the city and indeed the region

because there are a lot of the stars and executives were staying

outside of Belfast, just over that period of the weekend. I think the

legacy of the MTV ap Awards is more important for Belfast and and

Northern Ireland and we are dealing with the view that some people

across the world have of Belfast and Northern Ireland. We are

dealing with safety and security issues. Isn't it marvellous there

were only seven arrests in the city of Belfast over the weekend, and

that's what you normally have probably over a weekend in Belfast

and there were over 20,000 people in the city and I was very proud of

Belfast. I was proud of Northern Ireland, the way in which we were

able to project ourselves across the world and I think the benefits

of it will really - some of them will be intangible but they'll

encourage people to come to Northern Ireland and to Belfast and

it's a really great start to 2012, which is our year of opportunity,

our year of tourism, our year of getting people to come into

Northern Ireland. Raymond? I agree, I think it was worth the money. I

think even the way it was presented even by the local media and you are

to be congratulated, the commentary and running, because sometimes you

can look at this from a distan and think it's a music awards, what's

all the fuss? But it was interesting part of the commentary,

people from other cities, Dublin, Madrid, who had hosted the

festivals, were part of the local commentary and they said the long

lasting effect effect it had, not just the �10million that was in

Belfast, but the longer selling of a city to a worldwide audience. In

2013 Derry is going to be the City of Culture f I thought today the

tourist board or anybody else could spend �1 million and get out over

the course of a year what Belfast got over... It would cost more than

a million! When you spend a million what you can achieve, so we will

eventually will have to spend more. We need more infrastructure,

Belfast has the infrastructure. But I am trying to say is sometimes �1

million is a lot of money in austere circumstances but if it has

a lasting impact and creates more jobs you have to see it as wise

spending. The numbers stack up as far as you are concerned?

A lot of people realise there is a lot more to it if they're going to

do it to our standards. In terms of the spend, I cannot remember that

the figure, but I think for every �1 we give them, they can generate

�4 for the local economy, so I will support anything that generates

wealth. On the softer side, rather than hard economic factors, is

there a civilisation that has not prospered without a strong

foundation in their acts, creativity, writing? Are you would

hate to think that we would forget the importance of that even in the

austere times. What are your thoughts? It is all very positive.

We feel positive about the weekend. I hope that we do reap the benefits

and it is not just short lived. I hope it is about more than that and

we do get jobs from it and we have more people coming to Belfast.

Thank you. Gentleman with classes. Belfast City Council and the

Tourist Board have to be commended, however although it is great to

spend that money to recruit more money, why not get our politicians

who promise that they would speak to the banks to get them at to lend

appropriately, to recreate the construction industry in this

country? It is appropriate to say this. We want to crawl the tourism

industry so that it can provide jobs for people here in Northern

Ireland. It is the 4th fastest growing industry across the UK.

There are great opportunities in and around tourism. Tourism is a

bright light shining in Northern Ireland and we should be very proud

of it. Wild horses would not have tried me into Belfast to listen to

any of that music, but I share all the views that have been expressed

about how well Northern Ireland that. I would like to congratulate

everybody who was involved. Not for you, but well done! Thank you. Next

question. Is it right that every year we use the symbol of the poppy

as a political football? Raymond McCartney let me go to you first.

There have been issues relating to English football teams over the

weekend regarding this. What do you think of the question? I'd do not

think a poppy should be used as a political symbol. People have a

right to wear a poppy. I have no problem as an Irish republican with

people doing that. Some people opt out of wearing a poppy and that is

not a political statement. But you would like it not to become a

perennial political issue? Absolutely. People have the right

to wear a poppy and honour their dead in the right they see fit.

Those that way it should not see it as a political statement. Enure he

thinks the poppy is a political statement has a problem. Anyone who

thinks that not wearing a poppy is a political statement also has a

problem. We need to respect the right of people to choose to

identify themselves or not with the act of remembrance. I appalled that.

What has gone on with it the English soccer team, I am finding

very difficult to computer. Just for the benefit of those who may

not know, the English team wanted to wear the poppy with their

friendly match against Spain, but FIFA said that religious and

commercial and political emblems cannot be worn in international

matches. There are many states that have different emblems. Would you

have supported the right of the England player to wear it?

course. If every player wanted to wear it. I would rather not have it

on my shirt. But we need to get really serious about dealing with

the past. That is a bigger debate. That is what we need to focus our

attention on. David? One of the biggest issues in the south over

the last 20 years has been the gradual recognition of the tens of

thousands of soldiers from southern Ireland who fought in World War One

and Two were airbrushed bit of history because it was expedient to

do so. The history I learned that in secondary school was that the

First World War was broadly fought by English people. Then people

would talk about relatives that had also fought in that war. In the

last 20 years there has been an important reassessment. But the

problem is that the winner write history. If there were no right

history then the history is jaundiced. If the history is

jaundiced then nobody knows what the truth is. Over the last 10

years their recognition of the Irish battalions, far more

southerners died in World War One than northerners, these are facts,

and it is only now that we are beginning to appreciate that.

Nobody mentions it. I wear a poppy. I am proud to wear a poppy to say

thank you. It is a small gesture. I do notice people who do not wear

poppies at this time of year. I wonder why. Particularly as we're

coming to a new realisation. When I see what has happened over the last

few years, the president of Ireland and the Queen met recently. That

was a spirit of generosity. You might not buy into it but that is a

spirit of generosity. Is that not what the people of Northern Ireland

lead at the moment to get us through these hard times? A spirit

of generosity. This is the 24th anniversary of the Enniskillen

bombing. It is a painful time. I want to recognise that tonight. It

is important that I do that. I welcome the comet that have been

made tonight. The poppy is not a political or religious symbol. I

may that because I want to remember. Others do not. That is entirely up

to them. I have to say that remembering the soldiers currently

in Afghanistan and being in solidarity with them. There is a

new spirit of leadership that was given by her Majesty the Queen when

they looked at remembrance. The passage of time has allowed in the

Republic of Ireland the recognition of the Irish who fought in World

War One. Maybe it will take us some time to deal with those issues. A

lot of those issues are still very raw. If you look at Enniskillen and

the fact that their inquiry team is working with those people at the

moment and there are still issues being addressed, that shows that

there are sensitive issues. People in Enniskillen will wear the poppy

with pride. I will be via on Friday and on Sunday to remember not just

the world wars but also what happened in Enniskillen. And now

look a comment from a questionnaire. There were people of all colours

and creeds who fought and continued to fight in the armed forces for

freedom and democracy and it is a shame that anybody would abuse or

sully the memory of these people. The lady behind you.

politicians need to take a reality pill. The poppy has been used as a

political symbol. It has been used as a political symbol for many

years. For a Sinn Fein person to say that he now has no problems

with that is to deny the truth and not to look at what has happened in

the past. The only have to look at the society we live in. It is now

actually more divided than it has ever been with people being in

their sectarian areas. There is a lot of evidence about that. What is

needed is not to be nice to one another but to actually deal with

their shoes. Yes, we are acknowledging that national sport

in World War One, but we are a long way from dealing with that issue

and many others. It is unfair of the politicians to sit here and say

there is no politics in the poppy. But do we not stack with respect? I

personally do not we're a poppy because nobody in my family was on

the Western Front. They were all in the abbey at that time. That is my

family history. But I know that we have to start getting some respect

into the debate. Whether the poppy has been used in the past, and

there are many symbols, we are island of symbolism, we need to

allow them now to be worn by people who genuinely want to wear them

with respect in that way. The big challenge we are now facing up to

is the challenge of dealing with our past. You're new leader

yesterday said he would not wear a poppy because he said that the

British Legion has introduced a sense of appeals and to the poppy.

What does that mean? I was not aware that that is what my new

leader said. I think you should very carefully check what he said.

That is not a fair quote. What chances as is the fact that we do

not face up to the need to deal with the past. That is what we need

to put their energy into. As you say, there is a bigger debate for

another night. I believe that one there. Thank you very much. Next

question please. Do you believe that Jesus would be at the same

poll's protest and what would he do? Very quick answers please. This

is to do with their Occupy my bed at St Paul's and elsewhere. I would

not presume to guess what Jesus would do. But he would not be happy

with the state of the world, including the state of the Assembly

in Northern Ireland where people are paying -- people are being paid

a lot of money for not doing very much. It is difficult to second-

guess Jesus. I suspect he would be there articulating his views.

he be disappointed that it does become a political hot potato for

the management of the cathedral? am not going to second-guess that.

The question is genuine. I think he would be via raising their issues.

As the only applicant on the panel I have been watching very carefully

what the Archbishop of Canterbury has been saying. It is not a simple

issue of just siding with one or the other. Jesus gave a parable of

the two talents. He told people to invest the two talents and to make

more out of it. I do find it bizarre that people are now taking

up positions out Saeed St Anne's Cathedral. The reason they're

outside St Paul's Cathedral is because of its proximity to the

City of London. But I can understand people being outside St

Anne's Cathedral. It is perhaps just in solidarity with the

protesters. Some people come woman heaving and leave their pens there.

I do not understand that either. There are a lot of issues

surrounding this. I am saying it is much more complex than people would

have you believe. It is a difficult issue for the Church. When they got

involved at issues such as this in the 1980s they found themselves

coming down very firmly on one side of an argument and got into a whole

political debate. There is a much wider debate that he's to be had

about the role of wealth creation. We all want to see more wealth

creation and the UK, but also in relation to ethics and morals.

think he would be there. Protesting? Protesting. APPLAUSE

And his antecedents would also be there.

You say that as a former banker. a former investment banker.

have seen the light? I have seen the light! There is an enormous

issue of morality at play. You have a country like the UK where the

latest figures show that chief executives are paid multiples of

the little Gary's salaries. That is not the way that proper economics

works. Proper economics is about giving everybody a chance. Final

thoughts. The Christianity that I believe in is one that is based on

social justice and solidarity. If those protests are up anything,

they should be about social justice and solidarity. Whether it is just

one person standing up for what is right against a corrupt system,

that is the sort of thing Jesus would have wanted. Interesting to

hear your thoughts on that. Final thought from the questioner.

believe he would be there. I think he would be teaching the protesters

to pray for the Government to help the government changed and bring

prosperity across the land like teaching people to help build an

economic society again. Thank you. Fine to everyone. That is what we