The Saltire and the Union Spotlight


The Saltire and the Union

Mandy McAuley explores the issues around Scottish independence, travelling to Scotland to comprehend the consequences for Northern Ireland.


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Transcript


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June. Also we have the Clipper round-the-world yacht race at the

:00:01.:00:07.

end of June. In the next few months, we have events all the time.

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Thank you very much. The square is well worth checking out so maybe we

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will see you here some time. Time now for a look at what the

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Time now for a look at what the weather has planned for the next

:00:18.:00:23.

few days. Here's Barra Best. Winds are quite high at the moment

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and they will stay high overnight and into tomorrow. Generally it is

:00:28.:00:33.

a largely dry night, but there will be some damp weather continuing to

:00:33.:00:37.

be blown in from the north. Temperatures will stay at around

:00:37.:00:43.

five or six degrees. No frost to worry about. It will be a cold

:00:43.:00:47.

start tomorrow. But nothing will change. It will stay cloudy and we

:00:47.:00:52.

hold on to the winds. Very little in the way of brighter weather

:00:52.:00:57.

first thing, but maybe the odd glimmer. For the north coast, here,

:00:57.:01:03.

we hold on to some patchy rain. That continues through the day. The

:01:03.:01:10.

picture across Ireland is the sunny spells are at their best in

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Scotland and central England. May be some brightness through the rest

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of the coast. Some pictures tomorrow between nine and 10

:01:17.:01:23.

degrees. -- temperatures. For us, our temperatures are between eight

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and nine degrees. In the south-east we may get the odd 10 degrees. Not

:01:29.:01:34.

too bad. A few degrees above average. Although there will be a

:01:34.:01:37.

lot of cloud, it will be bright at time. We will see some doubt

:01:37.:01:41.

whether from the north coast. On Thursday we introduce another front.

:01:41.:01:46.

It is going to bring some rain. Temperatures will be up to nine or

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10 degrees. Improving as we did to 10 degrees. Improving as we did to

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the end of the week but by the weekend the temperatures begin to

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fall again. That's it for now. You can also

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keep up to date with the news online and follow this programme on

:01:58.:02:08.
:02:08.:02:31.

Facebook and Twitter. From BBC Two politicians, one unionist and

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:02:41.:02:41.

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 87 seconds

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one republican Our future, our resources, and our success, should

:04:08.:04:12.

be in our own hands. I passionately believe we are stronger together,

:04:13.:04:19.

rather than breaking apart. Frankly, I'm sad we are even having this

:04:19.:04:23.

debate. Peter Robinson and I have a castle in Belfast. I'm sure we

:04:23.:04:26.

would be prepared to make it available for peace discussions

:04:26.:04:31.

between the British government and Scotland! To many uenss here it's

:04:31.:04:36.

no laughing matter am some fear the fight for Scottish independence

:04:36.:04:41.

will achieve what republican terrorism has not. I see those

:04:41.:04:45.

proposals as a bigger threat to the union of the United Kingdom than

:04:45.:04:51.

the IRA is at present. Scottish nationalists say that is an

:04:51.:04:56.

Australian UN fair analogy. Terrible comment to make. Misjudged.

:04:56.:05:04.

Comparing the SNP a political party, totterries acts of mindless

:05:04.:05:07.

thuggery. The Scottish referendum could herald the biggest shake-up

:05:07.:05:12.

to the United Kingdom in three centuries. The implications for

:05:12.:05:17.

Northern Ireland are potentially huge. Could Scottish independence

:05:17.:05:22.

re-start the conflict in Northern Ireland, as some claim? If the

:05:22.:05:25.

Scottish nationalists were to succeed, it could possibly re-

:05:25.:05:28.

ignite the difficulties that we have just managed to overcome.

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Tonight, on Spotlight, we are in Scotland. We have brought with us

:05:33.:05:38.

two politicians, one unionist and one republican some unionists fear

:05:38.:05:41.

that Scottish independence could destroy the union. We ask, what it

:05:41.:05:45.

could mean for Northern Ireland and its position within the United

:05:45.:05:55.
:05:55.:05:58.

Our journey bins at a Burns Night supper in County Londonderry. This

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celebration in Tobermore Orange Hall, is one of the biggest social

:06:02.:06:11.

events in the local Calder. Since the plantation of the early 1600s,

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Ulster Scots have had deep religious, social and cultural ties

:06:14.:06:18.

with their fellow Scots, 20 miles across the Irish Sea. For many in

:06:18.:06:22.

the unionist community, those links are as strong today. Here there is

:06:22.:06:26.

great affection for the people of Scotland, who are regarded as

:06:26.:06:34.

kinsfolk. They have come to toast the haggis and to celebrate their

:06:34.:06:44.
:06:44.:06:44.

Scottish culture through poetry, music and dance. I'll cut you up...

:06:44.:06:47.

Alex Salmond's talk of Scottish independence and the possible

:06:47.:06:51.

break-up of the union draw as raw and deeply emotional response here.

:06:51.:06:55.

I think it's disgraceful because we've come through two world wars

:06:55.:07:00.

and the nation all fought together. You look at how many people have

:07:00.:07:03.

lost their relatives in wars and that, he is going to succeed where

:07:03.:07:08.

the Germans failed by breaking up the union. If cot land do break

:07:08.:07:12.

away from the UK it will let the English and Welsh people see that

:07:12.:07:17.

the people that's with him, the people that want to be there will

:07:17.:07:21.

only strengthen what they have. It would let England see who their

:07:21.:07:26.

friends are and where their loyalties lie. If Scotland was to

:07:26.:07:29.

get their independence, Wales could follow suit.we would have the

:07:29.:07:33.

scenario of a united Ireland, does the North need to be in the United

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Kingdom? I think it would be drastic for Northern Ireland.

:07:40.:07:48.

People here clearly cherish their relationship with Scotland. One man,

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who has fought to uphold that relationship around the globe, is

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Ulster unionist Lord Laird. From Artnagarvan in County Tyrone, he is

:07:58.:08:02.

passionate about everything Scottish. The former Head of the

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Ulster Scots Agency, he is the most high-profile proponent of Ulster

:08:07.:08:12.

Scots as a language. We decided to take Lord Laird on a trip to find

:08:12.:08:14.

out more about Scottish independence and what the outcome

:08:14.:08:20.

of the referendum could mean for Northern Ireland. Accompanying him,

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Barry McEldulff person, a republican from Tyrone. The Sinn

:08:27.:08:30.

Fein MLA is passionate about the gaelic tradition and is well-known

:08:30.:08:38.

as a champion of the GAA and the Irish language. John Laird set out

:08:38.:08:42.

on his journey on the very clear views on the way forward for

:08:42.:08:45.

Scotland. I would be opposed to independence. I'm opposed to any

:08:45.:08:49.

form of nationalism. I think nationalism is narrow and small.

:08:49.:08:53.

It's lacks self confidence. Barry McEldulff began the trip with very

:08:53.:08:59.

different, but firmly held opinions on Scottish independence. Well,

:08:59.:09:02.

Sinn Fein genuinely believes in the concept of national self

:09:02.:09:05.

determination for Ireland, principally, and, of course, for

:09:05.:09:08.

Scotland. It would be wrong of us to be prescriptive to the Scottish

:09:08.:09:18.
:09:18.:09:34.

Scotland is potentially on the cusp of momentous change. There is an

:09:34.:09:37.

enormous sense of expectation here, as people prepare for months of

:09:37.:09:41.

debate and ultimately a decision which could strike at the very

:09:41.:09:46.

heart of the UK's constitution and reverberate across British finance,

:09:46.:09:53.

industry and the military. The Robert the Bruce monument at

:09:53.:09:59.

Bannockburn, which commemorates a great Scottish victory over the

:09:59.:10:03.

English. Today, Scottish nationalists want to hold their

:10:03.:10:11.

referendum in 2014, the 700th anniversary of that battle.

:10:11.:10:16.

Scottish victory here was overwhelming. There was almost

:10:16.:10:20.

annihilation of the English noblt elite. They were actually the main

:10:20.:10:26.

victims of the Scottish pikemen. It took a very large number of years

:10:26.:10:31.

after 1314 for English forces, as it were, to restore their

:10:31.:10:37.

credibility. I don't think that the romantic or historical significance

:10:37.:10:41.

of 1314 will play all that great a part. It will certainly give a kind

:10:41.:10:46.

of lustre. The Scottish people are not daft. They will be looking very

:10:46.:10:50.

carefully indeed at all the arguments. The arguments will be

:10:50.:10:53.

essentially based on politics, aspirational attitudes in Scotland

:10:53.:10:59.

and, above all, of course, the likely future of the economy.

:10:59.:11:03.

Barry McEldulff there are clear parallels with the famous Irish

:11:03.:11:09.

victory over the English in County Tyrone. For me this is like the

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battle of the Yellowford at Benburb in 1598 when Huw O'Neill vanquished

:11:19.:11:22.

English forces at Yellowford? I like history. I love history and

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the past, I don't want to live in. It you could pick up stuff out of

:11:26.:11:31.

history and Tuesday for your own use. With respect to Irish

:11:31.:11:36.

Republican and Scottish nationalist you can pick these things. The

:11:37.:11:41.

unionists can pick the same thing and interpret it another way. You

:11:41.:11:49.

pick them when it suits you. Peace. I will be the umpire here. This

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might surprise your listeners and viewers in Ireland. In the 19th

:11:55.:11:58.

century Bruce and Wallace were regarded by the unionists as heroes.

:11:59.:12:03.

The argument was that both of them in their different wayes had

:12:03.:12:07.

preserved the independence the of Scotland. A very interesting point.

:12:07.:12:12.

Can you see how you interpret history to suit yourselves. You are

:12:12.:12:16.

a walking contradiction yourself. The papers are reporting a surge

:12:16.:12:20.

for support in independence, 20 points up, they say, on previous

:12:20.:12:30.
:12:30.:12:31.

polls. One small survey. It's headline news. We have two-and-a-

:12:31.:12:35.

half years until the poll. A lot of people will come to common sense,

:12:35.:12:39.

who will pay for all sorts of things. If Scotland gets

:12:39.:12:42.

independence. 51% would not frighten me at all. It's

:12:42.:12:47.

interesting in that we are in the middle of an economic recession.

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51% are, you know, stating their position for independence. Earlier

:12:56.:13:00.

this month, the Scottish National Party leader said his goal is

:13:00.:13:04.

political independence. The Queen, would remain Head of State. Alex

:13:04.:13:10.

Salmond wants to ask the Scottish people one question. Do you agree

:13:10.:13:13.

that Scotland should be an independent country? Even the

:13:13.:13:16.

wording of the question on the ballot paper has caused a huge row.

:13:16.:13:22.

David Cameron says the SNP is posing a loaded and coercive

:13:22.:13:26.

question. David Cameron is insisting on a "straight-forward

:13:26.:13:30.

yes or no question on independence". If Scottish people do vote for

:13:30.:13:36.

independence, what will the impact be on Northern Ireland? The more I

:13:36.:13:40.

heard of this word "independence" I have a notion in my head that

:13:40.:13:47.

Tyrone could pull it off. Who would be the Head of State. We took our

:13:47.:13:52.

politicians to meet constitutional expert, Christine Bell, originally

:13:52.:13:54.

from Northern Ireland, now based here at Edinburgh University.

:13:54.:13:57.

Christine has reassuring news for John Laird. The Good Friday

:13:57.:14:00.

agreement safeguards Northern Ireland's position within the union,

:14:00.:14:03.

irrespective of the outcome of a Scottish referendum. I think in

:14:03.:14:05.

terms of the immediate constitutional status of Northern

:14:05.:14:10.

Ireland, if we are looking at constitutional... You know, would

:14:10.:14:13.

you Northern Ireland be propelled into a united Ireland. It doesn't

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affect that at all. The Belfast Agreement anticipated it. Unlike

:14:17.:14:20.

the Scot land Act, the Northern Ireland Act makes provision for a

:14:20.:14:24.

referendum. It's clear that the conditions for a ref aren't there

:14:24.:14:29.

at the minute. Behind the headline figures, recent polls indicate a

:14:29.:14:32.

definite increase in support for independence. That support is still

:14:32.:14:36.

a long way from being a majority. What is more significant is the

:14:36.:14:40.

rise in the number of English people who want a Parliament of

:14:40.:14:47.

their own. Have you learnt anything new? One thing that struck me today.

:14:47.:14:51.

There is a rising sense of Englishness, a sense of England on

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the part of English people. You know, I wonder, from a union point

:14:55.:15:01.

of view, you know, is that, is that auguring, sort of, a psychological

:15:01.:15:05.

break-up? In that a notion of Britishness is dissipating and

:15:05.:15:09.

Scottishness and Englishness is on the rise? I'm not a player in this

:15:09.:15:12.

referendum. I'm a spectator because I'm going to allow the Scottish

:15:12.:15:17.

people to determine their own affairs. You're a player. You want

:15:17.:15:20.

to get actively involved in this campaign. I think you might learn

:15:20.:15:30.

from spectating this. OK. It could be the Republic of Ireland crease

:15:30.:15:36.

ceasing to be a republic and coming back into the UK. Can we agree to

:15:36.:15:42.

disagree? We can always agree to disagree. Dinner in Edinburgh for

:15:42.:15:45.

our two politicians, some people from Northern Ireland, who now live

:15:45.:15:49.

and work here. We wanted to know what they think about Scottish

:15:49.:15:55.

independence and what it means for Northern Ireland. Lord Laird is

:15:55.:15:58.

immediately challenged on what Scottish independence could mean

:15:58.:16:03.

for the future of Ulster unionism. I'm sick, sore and tired of every

:16:03.:16:09.

morning getting up having to say, how do we defend the union today. I

:16:09.:16:14.

do not wish to be a unionist. I wish to be a politician. But I'm

:16:14.:16:19.

forced to be a unionist because I perceive people working against us.

:16:19.:16:23.

I perceive we have no other way... We don't have an existence, we

:16:23.:16:27.

don't have an existence unless we can keep Northern Ireland as part

:16:27.:16:31.

of the United Kingdom. That is the way we analyse things today.

:16:31.:16:36.

Scotland is outside that. Scotland is outside that, how do you feel?

:16:36.:16:40.

Hold on. My big fear about skos Scottish nationalism and Scottish

:16:40.:16:44.

independence is that it might go down what I regard as Irish

:16:44.:16:49.

Nationalism. The one thing I learnt is that it's a melting pot. It's a

:16:49.:16:53.

big melting pot. I'm not clear in my own mind exactly how to handle,

:16:53.:17:00.

accept that we will help to fight the nationalists in some shape,

:17:00.:17:04.

sense or form. Pauline Goldsmith is an actress, originally from Belfast.

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She comes from a background. She has lived in Scotland for 16 years

:17:08.:17:12.

and says Irish and Scottish nationalism are very different.

:17:13.:17:19.

Independence in Scotland its very diverse. Its international looking

:17:19.:17:26.

it's not based on one religion. It's very mixed. Fundamentally, it

:17:26.:17:30.

has at its heart social justice and equality. That, I think, is what

:17:30.:17:36.

attracts people to independence who are not necessarily nationalists.

:17:36.:17:41.

Business man, Paul Nelson, is from a unionist background in Lisburn.

:17:41.:17:48.

He describes himself as an Ulster Scot. He settled in Glasgow 25

:17:48.:17:55.

years ago. I do think the Scottish independence will do more to damage

:17:55.:17:58.

the United Kingdom that that the -- than the IRA ever did is correct.

:17:58.:18:02.

There is no union after. That the IRA's objective in that respect

:18:02.:18:07.

would have gone. However, there would still be, presumably, a union

:18:07.:18:14.

between Northern Ireland and England? I think it puts it under

:18:14.:18:16.

tremendous pressure. Northern Ireland is an irrelevance for

:18:16.:18:23.

England. Journalist and author, Neil Mackay, is from a mixed

:18:23.:18:28.

religious background in Antrim. think Euniceism will find itself in

:18:28.:18:33.

a very difficult bind. Let's say in the hypothetical world that

:18:33.:18:38.

Scotland went independence, what is unionism? There is no union. What

:18:38.:18:45.

is going to happen to the DUP and the UUP? How do you define your

:18:45.:18:49.

ideological territory? What territory do you sit on? The union

:18:49.:18:54.

is not just with Scotland it is the rest of the United Kingdom. What it

:18:54.:19:00.

if the arch English person goes, we don't care if we lose Scotland.

:19:00.:19:07.

What about that much more problematic country? Our two

:19:07.:19:11.

politicians meet Humza Yousaf a rising star in the SNP. One of the

:19:11.:19:14.

faiszs of the referendum campaign, he has already been tipped as a

:19:14.:19:18.

future leader of his party. He describes himself as a Scottish

:19:18.:19:23.

Pakistani and says his party's brand of nationalism is all

:19:23.:19:31.

inclusive. What are you going to get through independence in terms

:19:31.:19:37.

of freedom and new law that is you can't get right now? What our

:19:37.:19:43.

independence is about is about independence to grow jobs. To

:19:43.:19:48.

create jobs. It's the independence to grow the economy. Independence

:19:48.:19:56.

not to send our sons and daughters to fight in illegal wars. It is the

:19:56.:20:01.

independence to create a welfare system that is just and that it

:20:01.:20:07.

doesn't punish the disabled. Who is going to pay for all this? We more

:20:07.:20:12.

than pay our own way. What are the implications of Scottish

:20:12.:20:17.

independence to your mind for example the north of Ireland. Do

:20:17.:20:21.

you think there are consequences or knock-on affects for us in terms of

:20:21.:20:26.

the future? That is a fair question to ask. There will be implications

:20:26.:20:31.

for the whole of the rest of the UK. Possibly wider as well. The English

:20:31.:20:35.

people want an English Parliament. Want an English representation.

:20:35.:20:39.

That has gone up massively and swelled in the last couple of

:20:39.:20:44.

months. It is their sporting ties that lead to some animated debate.

:20:44.:20:50.

I'm a glory hunter at heart, apart from Celtic football club, who I

:20:50.:20:56.

have supported all my life. know what the definition of an

:20:56.:21:01.

atheist is? What is that? Someone who goes from a Rangers Celtic

:21:01.:21:07.

match to watch the football. I wanted to ask Humza Yousaf what he

:21:07.:21:12.

made of the Ulster unionist leader's warning that the battle

:21:13.:21:17.

for Scottish independence could do more damage to the union than the

:21:17.:21:27.
:21:27.:21:30.

IRA? I think it's a terrible comment to make. For the last 77 to

:21:30.:21:38.

compare a political party to the terrorist acts of mindless thuggery.

:21:38.:21:41.

It was felt that Scottish independence could re-ignite the

:21:41.:21:47.

conflict in Northern Ireland? is a very inflammatory statement to

:21:47.:21:52.

make. What is his reaction to Peter Robinson's call to unionists to

:21:52.:21:55.

campaign against Scottish independence? I would almost pay

:21:55.:21:58.

for their bus fare and train fare to come over. Every time unionists

:21:58.:22:03.

from Westminster or from outside of Scotland tries to interfere in the

:22:03.:22:11.

democratic will of the Scottish people, it backfires immensely.

:22:11.:22:15.

fears that they would not win a referendum on full independence

:22:15.:22:19.

have led them to offer the public the possibility of an extra

:22:19.:22:25.

question on the ballot paper. An option known as devolution max.

:22:25.:22:29.

That would increase the Scottish Parliament's powers, but falls just

:22:29.:22:35.

short of complete independence. It's a measure that finds support

:22:35.:22:40.

among many Scottish politicianes who want to stay inside the union.

:22:40.:22:45.

Politicians like former First Minister heny McLeish. I'm not

:22:45.:22:48.

looking for a compromise, bau better alternative which keeps

:22:48.:22:53.

Scotland within the union. Hopefully, a different union. It

:22:53.:23:02.

allows Scottish -- Scotland to have more financial powers. Devo max?

:23:02.:23:06.

It's home rule within the union. If you want to keep the union, be more

:23:06.:23:12.

sensitive to what parts of the union want. Alex Salmond wants --

:23:12.:23:20.

once painted a picture of Ireland Scotland and Iceland as arc of

:23:20.:23:23.

prosperity. Ireland and Iceland are now bust. Where does that leave

:23:23.:23:31.

Scotland? Could it stand on it is own financially. We put that

:23:31.:23:35.

question to Bill Jamieson? Executive edit Orthor of the

:23:35.:23:43.

Scotsman. There is a set of facts as the nationalists see. It in

:23:43.:23:48.

other words a Scotland that was accumulating North Sea oil reserves

:23:48.:23:53.

would be a very viable country and would not have any problem raising

:23:53.:24:00.

money on the international money markets. Another truth is, that an

:24:00.:24:06.

independent Scotland would not be able to survive. It wouldn't have a

:24:06.:24:11.

terrorism A rating. Could an independent Scotland maintain its

:24:11.:24:14.

current commitments to welfare spending and social benefits, and

:24:14.:24:20.

the unionists say, no, it cannot be depon. After much debate our dinner

:24:20.:24:25.

guests greed that ultimately money will decide Scotland's future. Paul

:24:25.:24:31.

Nelson does 90% of his trade in England and Wales. Is there

:24:31.:24:34.

business confidence in the notion of Scottish independence across

:24:34.:24:42.

business, would you say? Across business, I think, it's pretty

:24:42.:24:45.

solidly against Scottish independence. There are a few big

:24:45.:24:50.

main the hitters. To develop develop money we need open borders

:24:50.:24:57.

and less borders. We don't need more. Pauline Goldsmith gold says

:24:57.:25:00.

Scots must not allow the Republic of Ireland's experience frighten

:25:00.:25:04.

them away from independence. idea is that we would have more

:25:04.:25:07.

control and accountability of our politicians and our banks and the

:25:07.:25:12.

society we have if we had independence. If the union did

:25:13.:25:19.

break up, who would decide who gets what and how much? How do you

:25:20.:25:27.

untangle oil. In a divorce, who gets the art and the gold? Who gets

:25:27.:25:34.

the cat? It it -- it is bigger than a cat, it's North Sea oil.

:25:34.:25:38.

visiting is causing a stir. Some of our interest in the Scots is

:25:38.:25:41.

mirrored by their interest in us. On day three, our two politicians

:25:41.:25:47.

are being filmed by a BBC Scotland Newsnight crew. I'm from a Scottish

:25:47.:25:50.

background myself. I do not like the idea of Scots going into

:25:50.:25:54.

something that could end up in a narrow sectarian, narrow little

:25:54.:25:59.

state. Not dissimilar to that of the Irish Republic. Our two

:25:59.:26:03.

politicians are invited on to Call Kaye, one of Scotland's biggest

:26:03.:26:09.

radio talk shows. Let me know your thoughts this morning. Should we,

:26:09.:26:14.

in Scotland, care what impact independence should it ever come to

:26:14.:26:21.

pass, have on our neighbours, in Northern Ireland. The problem you

:26:21.:26:27.

have with nationalism. I have to speak about Irish Nationalism is

:26:27.:26:30.

that to prove itself it had to be different from everybody else.

:26:30.:26:36.

Therefore, polished up symbols and things and ideas which would be

:26:36.:26:41.

anathema to us from a non- nationalist viewpoint. Lord Laird

:26:41.:26:45.

ends up bearing the brunt of most of the callers anger, all deeply

:26:45.:26:50.

irritated by his former leader's suggestion that independence could

:26:50.:26:55.

re-ignite the conflict in Northern Ireland. These are just

:26:55.:26:57.

scaremongering stories that are being put around to try and

:26:57.:27:02.

frighten people into backing off from what is every nation's destiny,

:27:02.:27:06.

the right to control its own borders, to control its own

:27:06.:27:10.

economics, to do everything that is good for its own people and then to

:27:10.:27:16.

turn its attention to the world. have Stephen in Ayrshire. Morning.

:27:16.:27:21.

Good morning. I have listened with great interest. I have to say the

:27:21.:27:25.

unionist gentleman, from Ireland, he really has not got a grasp on

:27:25.:27:31.

the reality. Why should everything be controlled by London? He says he

:27:32.:27:35.

fears that Scotland would become rather narrow in the nationalism.

:27:35.:27:40.

The reality is we are a European nation. We are European now.

:27:40.:27:44.

terms of Ireland, are you excited by the fact that this debate is

:27:44.:27:49.

going on in Scotland? Are you hopeful that it might kind of re-

:27:49.:27:53.

ignite a different kind of fire, a nationalist fire in Ireland?

:27:53.:27:57.

would be keen not to express a partisan opinion on the internal

:27:57.:28:01.

debate within Scotland. It is, apparently, having an unsettling

:28:01.:28:05.

effect on unionism. Remember, I'm somebody that is opposed to the

:28:05.:28:10.

union. I suppose, it's interesting when John, John Laird would say

:28:10.:28:15.

things like, "I'm a unionist" if Scotland achieved its independence,

:28:15.:28:24.

who would the union be with? At the end of the day, it's a disappearing

:28:24.:28:29.

union. You got some stick on Call Kaye. Did you see her facial

:28:29.:28:35.

expresses when they were ringing in, "what planet does he live on?".

:28:35.:28:38.

What they were doing was listening carefully to what I said and taking

:28:38.:28:43.

in every word as if it was a gem or a pearl. Yeah, yeah. I think that

:28:43.:28:48.

is very interesting. It's a very important point. I was glad to meet

:28:48.:28:52.

Kaye, she is a big personality in broadcasting in Scotland.

:28:52.:28:58.

didn't know her surname. Her surname was Adams. You thautd --

:28:58.:29:03.

thought thats with a Scottish name. Easy to remember. Alphabetically it

:29:03.:29:06.

was always top of the ballot paper. For Scots the question of

:29:06.:29:13.

independence is a battle between head and heart. The long tradition

:29:13.:29:19.

of Scottish regularments in the British Army, pitted against modern

:29:19.:29:23.

fears of nuclear bases in Scotland. The desire to march into a new

:29:23.:29:31.

progress if future, lined up against the security of the past.

:29:31.:29:35.

All very difficult issues, but for Scottish Conservatives, the kaisz

:29:35.:29:40.

for the union is overwhelming. think there is a very strong

:29:40.:29:44.

argument both for the head and the heart for Scotland to remain part

:29:44.:29:48.

of the United Kingdom. If you look at Scottish soldiers wearing a

:29:48.:29:53.

Mandy McAuley uncovers the big talking points in the Scottish independence debate. She travels to Scotland with a unionist and a republican - and asks what the consequences for Northern Ireland could be.


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