What about Dublin? Spotlight

The Irish State is being asked to explain its role in the Troubles.

We certainly feel that the Irish Government could have done a lot

more to stop the campaign of genocide that was happening in

Fermanagh, Tyrone, South Armagh and Londonderry as well. Unionists

return to this and try to claim that if it wasn't for the Irish

Government there wouldn't have been the IRA campaign. I think it is

what-about-ery. There is no memory whatever of collusion between the

Irish State, passive or active, and the IRA. My party was totally,

totally against the use of violence in achieving their political aims.

Totally, 100%, 101%. Next time I'm in Dublin I certainly will be

talking about these matters. issue of the Irish State's attitude

and actions have also been thrown centre stage by a tribunal in

Dublin investigating allegations that Gardai colluded with the IRA.

Will Ireland answer a unionist call to apologise for... The British

Army suffered its biggest loss of life in the Troubles when two bombs

were detonated here in the North, from across the water in the south.

Throughout the Troubles, questions were raised about the Irish State's

role. As unionists complained the republic provided a sanctionary for

on the run terrorists. As politicians contest the past, the

history of the Troubles can appear an exercise in what-about-ery. To

the next generation the question, what about allegations of Irish

State collusion with the IRA, may come to appear it no more than the

obvious rejoineder to cries of what about British collusion with

It was as a result of political negotiations at Weston Park over a

decade ago that a number of inquiries into alleged British and

Irish collusion were set up. In Dublin, one of those inquiries, led

by judge Peter Smithwick has been examining claims of gardai

collusion in the IRA murder two of police officers. Chief

Superintendent Harry Breen and Border Superintendent Bob Buchanan

were travelling back across the border after a meeting with their

Irish gardai counterparts in Dundalk on March 20, 1989. They

were ambushed by a gang of IRA gunmen. What is this? Reverse,

They were the two most senior policemen murdered during the

Troubles. I was meant to the in the car. Harry and I were going down

that morning. Alan Mains was Harry Breen's staff officer, but his

place on the trip to Dundalk was taken instead by Bob Buchanan.

Officers Breen and Buchanan went to Dundalk to discuss a possible

operation against Thomas Slab Murphy, who they identified as IRA

chief in South Armagh. Harry Breen had been worried about travelling

there because he suspected some guards had links to the IRA. He had

a lot of reservations about it. You know, I think it was more to do

with the fact that it was Murphy and he did mention his concerns,

clearly to me, at the time, about the fact that people were on, in

Harry's opinion, were on the pay roll of Slab Murphy from the

Guardian. Harry Breen also knew he was among the IRA's top targets,

after he appeared in the media following the SAS SAS ambush at

Loughall in which eight IRA men had been killed.

NEWSREEL: The weapons are very high-powered. It's evident that not

only did the terrorists intend to destroy the station, but also to

kill any of the ok ue paints in the -- occupants in the station. It was

a serious set back to the RUC. was a significant blow with

especially Harry. He would have had tremendous knowledge as a Constable

in Crossmaglen, right through to being a Chief Superintendent for

the division. There was probably nothing that he didn't know in

terms of personalities within the Provisional IRA. The question has

always been, how did the IRA know that two policemen were on the road

that day? Specifically, was there a leak from Dundalk Gardai Station?

Harry Breen's staff arranged the 34509ing in Dundalk by phone only

hours before took place at 2.0 Peter Mandelson --2.00pm. On the

day itself between 9.00 am and 10.15 am several phone calls

occurred. Firming up the arrangements. Just over an hour

after these calls, around 11.30 am. It's understood that British Army

listening devices in South Armagh picked up a rush of IRA

communications. Was this the start of the preparation for the IRA

attack? If it was, how did the IRA know to get ready when only a

handful of people in Newry and Dundalk police stations say they

knew about the meeting? The officers' car couldn't have been

spotted before, this because they didn't leave Newry until after

1.30pm. The question the tribunal is obviously addressing very

directly is, whether or not the Provisional IRA had information

beyond 10.10/10.15 am that the men were coming? Expert witnesses have

said that to spot the officers' carat 1.30pm and mount the huge

operation just after 3.30pm would surely have been impossible. The

IRA was either already covering the roads or tipped off about the trip

Journalists Chris Ryder, says republican terrorists viewed the

South as a hiding place from security forces in Northern Ireland.

Dundalk at one stage was known as Gundalk. Many people who left

Northern Ireland to avoid justice went on the run and stayed on the

run in the Republic of Ireland. They generally felt that it was a

safe haven. It is a view shared by General Sir John Wilsey, a former

head of the British Army in Northern Ireland. A successful

terrorist organisation must have a safe border behind which to shelter.

You must have a population or a community or an area or a base

which is protected and safe. This man, known as Kevin Fulton,

appeared before the Tribunal and said he was a former British Army

agent. He infill straited the IRA's South Down unit. The engineering

and the bomb make woog have been 99% based in the south. Had you no

RUC or covert army units running around. You made bombs and they

went all over Northern Ireland. They would have gone up as far ace

as Derry/Londonderry, Belfast, North Down, South Down, they went

everywhere, Cookstown. Kevin Fulton is significant because he has given

key evidence to the Smithwick Tribunal claiming he was present

when a Dundalk guard passed information to the IRA. That

evidence was privotal to the inquiry being set up into the

deaths of Breen and Buchanan. But it is also highly controversial.

The Tribunal has heard Kevin Fulton described as "an intelligence

nuisance", and "a compulsive liar" likely to provide false information.

The triebuen hall has though heard that Fulton provided good

intelligence on many occasions. Whether or not Smithwick ultimately

believes his story, what this inquiry has done is shine a light

on the role of the Irish State and Border security was a major point

of contention between Britain and Ireland. The bombing at Narrow

Water in August 179 brought it into sharp focus. 18 soldiers were

killed outside Warrenpoint when the IRA detonated two bombs from across

the border, a short distance away. They were in the south. So they

were unmolested. They knew they were completely untouched. We could

do nothing about it. Prime Minister, Margaret Thatcher, immediately flew

to Northern Ireland and began to pressure the Irish for tougher

security. As part of the negotiations for the Anglo Irish

Agreement in 1985, better security co-operation led to increased

staffing at Dundalk Gardai station. Recently leaked American government

cables reveal that Thatcher felt Dublin was still dragging it is

feet on security by 1987. She even offered British funding to train

Irish police and army in anti- terror tactics. An offer that Irish

Justice Minister Gerry Collins says was turned down. It was our

responsibility to fulfill or our constitutional obligations. That we

did. About We understand that Judge Smithwick has been searching

through Thatcher's and Fitzgerald briefing papers for a gardai leak.

Rumours about a Dundalk mole were rife. The Tribunal heard that an

RUC Special Branch document from that year named a particular guard.

The INLA had a big funeral here. These rumours became known in

Dundalk itself, says Dan Prenty, who was a Detective Inspector in

the town during the 80s, but no-one investigated. It was going on for a

long time. Really, it was not much notice was taken of it, to be

honest about it. It was never as seenious -- serious enough for a

major investigation to be carried out into it. A former Monaghan

Chief Superintendent, Tom Curran, told Smithwick that in 197 Bob

Buchanan actually asked him to raise concern at Gardai HQ. He said

he went to Assistant Commissioner Eugene Crowley and told him that

the RUC was concerned that a guard was associating with the IRA. He

claimed that Crowley barely looked up from the flies he was reading as

sur ran told Smithwick "in a very short time I got the opinion he

didn't want to hear it, so I left". Curran also told the Tribunal that

Bob Buchanan named the man Owen Corrigan as the guard who links to

the IRA. Owen Corrigan was unavailable for this programme. But

he is seen here speaking to Spotlight? South Armagh has been

part of the Troubles. A unique part of the subversive activity on the

border. In a statement before he died Crowley said he had never

heard anything about Corrigan. Owen Corrigan is the same guard Kevin

Fulton told Smithwick he witnessed passing information to the IRA.

Owen Corrigan has strenuously denied all allegations against him.

His solicitor points out that he has successfully sued over such

allegations in the past. His record has been defended by fellow

officers. He has been commended for fighting terrorism, including

handing over INLA man, Dominic McGlinchey, to the RUC. His

solicitor has evidence to show he was on sick leave at the time Kevin

Fulton says he was passing information to the IRA. Two further

guards from Dundalk station have come under suspicion too. They also

dispute the allegations. The Irish authorities appear to have done

very little to investigate a leak. It was only after the Breen and

Buchanan murders that they launched an internal investigation. Before

that began, just hours after the killings, the RUC and the guards

dismissed all claims of a leak. reject any suggestion of that kind.

I can say now that categorically the evidence which we have firmly

confirms to us that was no mole. Can you indicate... No, not at this

time. How could both men have been so sure there was no mole just

hours after the murders? A former senior Special Branch officers, and

an ex-kept deputy Constable, have told Spotlight, in their experience,

they could not have made this call so soon. I think that they had to

do that for reassurance reasons, Sir John Hermon would have been

mindful of the fact that he could have triggered off a response or

retaliation by loyalist elements. Indeed, created a situation where

the RUC rank and file would refuse to co-operate with the Gardai.

Irish Justice Minister Gerry Collins and Eugene Crowley met and

Crowley sent a senior guard to investigate in Dundalk. Before he

had even reached Dundalk Gardai station Eugene Crowley had given a

statement to say there was no mole in Dundalk Gardai station am, how

could Crowley do that? I can't answer that. If Commissioner Eugene

Crowley said that, that was the belief he had at the time. Would

you think it was strange to make a statement before you had the facts

to hand and the report to hand? Again, I can't answer that it was

an internal police decision. Smithwick has heard evidence that

suggests the gardai investigation was limited in scope. Many officers

on the morning shift on the day of the murders were not even

questioned. None of those officers were searched down and interviewed.

That, to me, would have been one of the most important lines of inquiry.

Extraordinarily, the tribunal also heard evidence that the officers

who carried outlet investigation were never ordered to investigate a

leak, but instead were merely told to establish officers' movements at

Dundalk Gardai Station on the day of the murders. So how then cot

final report to Eugene Crowley, one month later, confidently state in

its conclusion, "there is no leak in Dundalk Gardai Station"? For

some it suggests that the inquiry was window dressing which allowed

Gardai to say they had investigated. But any suggestion of the State

avoiding the issue of a leak is hotly contestant. Do you think

there would be reluctance in the Irish State to fully investigate

the issue because of the potential political ramifications? No, none

what so ever. The sort of innuendo in that question is that such might

have existed. It did not exist. The government is bona fide and beyond

question. In January 1990 a special Gardai task force planned to raid

the home of IRA quartermaster, Michael McKevitt looking for a

false passport. The night before the raid, Dundalk guards were told

of the operation. An ex-guard, Dan Prenty, has told Smithwick that

shortly after a phone call was made to Warren McKevitt. So is this

definitive evidence that someone in the Dundalk guards was tipping off

the IRA less than a year after the Breen and Buchanan murders.

McKevitt has denied receiving such a call. Smithwick has heard his

phone was tapped, so the question is is, is there a tape of this

alleged tip-off and where is it? Smithwick also located Gardai

intelligence documents containing claims that the IRA had friends in

Dundalk's police force. Yet it seems there was still no action

taken. But this idea of a soft approach is strongly rejected by

ex-Dundalk detective Dan Prenty. The film taps into the belief that

there were some rotten Apples in the guards. Is this there any truth

in it? Sean oh Callaghan is a former IRA commander and police

informer. He was invited to give evidence to Smithwick but declined.

He claims the guards were not as tough on on the IRA as they could

have been. I remember one occasion being arrested and this gardai

detective, who had just known he me for years, there was a young gardai

detective, literally new. He walks in and he says to this garda

detective. He says, "you sit there, Sean is going to sit there. You ask

some questions and Sean will educate you". He walked off

laughing. But any idea of a soft approach is strongly rejected by

ex-Dundalk detective Dan Prenty. Were you as a guard ever directed

to go easy on the IRA? Never. That was never policy at all. Never. The

guards at all times always at every chance confronted the IRA But Sean

oh Callaghan alleges son-in-law guards were sympathetic to the IRA.

He was aware of a senior IRA man, now a politician, who was handling

a gardai contact in the mid 0's. That contact was paid �5,000, which

I knew, for the IRA, was a huge amount of money for the IRA to pay

in those circumstances. I was the OC of the IRA Southern Command, but

I wasn't handling this. Or I wasn't allowed to hand this. This was

being handled a pay grade above me, if you like. But it wasn't just the

guards who were an issue for the British Government. General will si,

who had seven tours on duet tkwri in Northern Ireland said he was

frustrated that he never once was able to speak one-to-one with his

Irish army counterparts. We were not to have any dealings with the

British Army. Which, as far as Dublin was concerned, was an alien

army, an occupying army. Dublin didn't want to have any dealings

with us. What difference would co- operation with Irish arm have made?

It could have brought the troubles to a halt, I would have thought.

Kevin Myers was a Dublin journalist working in Belfast during the

Troubles who later wrote an article which made allegations of Gardai

collusion that played a part in the creation of the Smithwick Tribunal.

Fianna Fail government ministers actively encouraged the formation

of the Provisional IRA. Actively fed money, government money, to the

IRA. They helped to arm the IRA. They gave moral support to the IRA.

They were sympathetic to the cause of a united Ireland. That was

official Irish policy. Now the Irish State couldn't engage in a

war with Britain to do that. There were elements there who said, let

the IRA do the dirty work. former Fianna Fail Justice Minister

finds this view offensive. My party was totally, totally against the

use of violence in achieving their political aims. Totally 100%, 101%.

Brian Feeney argues the plot by some Irish government ministers to

arm the IRA in the 70s did not have the backing of the state. That was

not the Irish government. There were a couple of individuals. There

is no doubt there were individuals, particularly in Fianna Fail who did

want to send guns to the North. The Irish Government stamped on the

plot and threw out the people who were involved and put them on trial.

He also says that unionist claims the Irish State turned a blind eye

or allowed the IRA to do its dirty work are "laughable". This is a

familiar unionist myth that the Irish State was very worried about

the role of the IRA and the prospect at certain times of IRA

destabilising the Irish State. Historically, it was extradition

which was the major source of contention between the British and

Irish. A point which Jack Lynch felt the heat over after Narrow

Water. It was the the failure of the government to extradite known

IRA terrorist to the North. Any excuse was found not to do this.

Until the mid 80s Irish law meant IRA members could escape

extradition to the North to face terrorist charges by saying

political motivation. extradition laws were difficult. In

the 1980s, 30 years ago now, they wouldn't extradite people who had

escaped from jail in the North because people who had escaped from

prison in the Big Escape were badly beaten by prison soldiers and

prison wardens. When they were brought back again so they weren't

extradited because of danger of injury. Evelyn Glenholmes ended not

in extradition but in farce. Figures reveal that 113 extradition

requests for terrorist related offences made to the republic

between 1973 and 1997, only eelgt were granted. Dan Prenty says it

was not the fault of the guards, but it was the fault of the courts

and the State. Every one that came to Dundalk were executed and the

person taken before the district court. I felt bad about the fact I

had executed the warrants, taken to court and no no progress to report.

Gerry Collins seems reluctant to get into this thorny issue? Were we

any different from any other country at the time? I know the

French you couldn't extradite a fly out of France.. Leave that question

for someone else. OK? The Dublin Government is now await Smithwick's

findings. The hearings will run until at least Easter and a final

report is expected later this year. With the clock ticking, the Breen

family solicitor says the tribunal may set up a videolink in Northern

Ireland to encourage witnesses who have yet to come forward. Of those,

of whom I know, there would be four Ministry of Defence witnesses which

would include, for example, a soldier who was present on the

ground at the relevant periods of time. Getting to the truth though

is a long and difficult process. The Secretary of State is currently

holding talks with the Stormont political parties in an effort to

find a process to deal with the legacy of the Troubles. In recent

months, like the Irish government, he too has been made fully aware

that the past remains a toxic issue. I was so angry with the Prime

Minister that I actually -- called a halt to the meeting. Days after

David Cameron told the family of Pat Finucane they would not get a

full public inquiry. Enda Kenny said he would raise their case in

London, Europe and Washington. response from the Irish government

has been non-co-operation in terms of meeting to discuss these issues.

Enda Kenny and his government can't have it both ways. He can't travel

around the world saying, I want to know the truth, I want a public

inquiry. In the Finucane case and at the same time deny hundreds of

people the right to question the Irish government on their role.

Danny Kennedy says he's tried for nearly nine months to get a full

meeting with the Taoiseach but only managed to get a chat at a North-

South Ministerial Council meeting in Armagh. I presented Enda Kenny

with a dossier detailing the murders of 159 members of the

forces or individuals at the hands of South Armagh republicans wo who

had operated from his jurisdiction. They have to stand up and say it

was wrong and they have to apologise. Spotlight has also the

Taoiseach and the Tanaiste and the Foreign Minister to talk about

these issues. No-one at Leinster House was available for interview.

It was the same response from the Gardai. For some, chasing down

either government is a game of sectarian what-about-ery. I think

in both cases you have a political agenda going on there. When

republicans seek apologies from the British government what they are

out to show is that it was all the British government fault. And on

the unionist side there is also a political agenda to try and

demonstrate that it wasn't an insurrection it was some outside

force that destabilised Northern Ireland which was a great wee place

before 69. For Jeffrey Donaldson and other unionists this is not

what-about-ery, but a demand for parity for unionist concerns and

he's adamant that they -- there can be no greed mechanism for dealing

with the past until this issue is addressed. They they want to be

included in the future they have to be accountable for the past.