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Saturday's parade to celebrate the centenary of the Ulster Covenant. A | :00:17. | :00:27. | |
march like no other, packed with pageantry. And police. 190 bands | :00:27. | :00:36. | |
and 20,000 people. It's around a third to 50% bigger than the 12th. | :00:36. | :00:39. | |
There were fears of trouble. But a collective sigh of relief when it | :00:39. | :00:43. | |
passed off without a major incident. At what cost, though? Tonight we | :00:43. | :00:47. | |
reveal the bill for this year's marching season. �6 million is far | :00:47. | :00:56. | |
too much money to spend on this area. At the heart of another tense | :00:56. | :00:58. | |
summer was a dispute over the behaviour of the Young Conway | :00:58. | :01:01. | |
Volunteers outside St Patrick's Catholic church in Belfast. We hear | :01:01. | :01:10. | |
exclusively from the band. Our band did nothing wrong. To the Catholic | :01:11. | :01:20. | |
:01:21. | :01:22. | ||
community, it was an insult. disrespect is intended by any of | :01:22. | :01:26. | |
the marchers. People say they do not want to make this a contentious | :01:26. | :01:36. | |
:01:36. | :01:39. | ||
route. It was a summer in which the Parades Commission, the body set up | :01:39. | :01:42. | |
to deal with contentious marches, left both sides angry. With less | :01:42. | :01:45. | |
than a year to go before the Commission has to be replaced, is | :01:45. | :01:48. | |
Northern Ireland any closer to finally sorting out the problem of | :01:48. | :01:51. | |
parades? The Parades Commission is not the way to solve this. In fact | :01:51. | :02:01. | |
:02:01. | :02:14. | ||
there may not be a way to solve it. Thousands of people, united in | :02:14. | :02:18. | |
Belfast in the spirit of a century old pledge. They were celebrating | :02:19. | :02:22. | |
the Ulster Covenant. Pledging themselves to Britain as the men | :02:22. | :02:27. | |
and women of Ulster. And pledging to stay British. For Ulster's | :02:27. | :02:36. | |
Unionists, it's a birthright. years after all the troubles, the | :02:36. | :02:40. | |
IRA campaigns and internal tussles and differences between London and | :02:40. | :02:45. | |
Dublin, the fact they are still in the United Kingdom, they want to | :02:45. | :02:50. | |
celebrate that loudly and proudly. It was a big day for John Aughey. | :02:50. | :03:00. | |
:03:00. | :03:03. | ||
Parading is in his blood. This one was as big as it gets. I am looking | :03:03. | :03:09. | |
forward to celebrating my heritage. It is probably bigger than Twelfth | :03:09. | :03:12. | |
of July in terms of the size of the parade. This is the hundredth | :03:12. | :03:21. | |
anniversary, let's hope there is a 100 anniversary. It's not just an | :03:21. | :03:24. | |
idea, or a folk memory for John. His family have a deep-rooted | :03:24. | :03:28. | |
connection with the Covenant. They have lived it. My two grandfathers | :03:28. | :03:31. | |
both signed the Covenant, but they both signed it for the same reason, | :03:31. | :03:36. | |
to reaffirm our position within the United Kingdom. I consider myself | :03:37. | :03:41. | |
to be following in the family tradition. My son, my daughter and | :03:41. | :03:50. | |
grandson are in the parade today. Let's hope the tradition continues. | :03:50. | :03:53. | |
The Covenant was about defiance. Defiance of a Bill that would | :03:53. | :03:55. | |
release Ireland from british control. Ulster's unionists, led by | :03:55. | :04:01. | |
Lord Carson, drew up a pledge rejecting it in the strongest terms. | :04:01. | :04:08. | |
What it means has not changed from grandfather to grandson. There are | :04:08. | :04:12. | |
serious and many pressures put on the people of Northern Ireland to | :04:12. | :04:16. | |
weaken that opinion. It is important for us to show the rest | :04:16. | :04:25. | |
of the world that we are just as determined now. But not everyone | :04:25. | :04:29. | |
was celebrating. The residents of Carrick Hill protested in front of | :04:29. | :04:31. | |
St Patrick's Church in north Belfast, as John and several | :04:31. | :04:34. | |
hundred other Orangemen passed by. While all the bands abided by the | :04:34. | :04:44. | |
:04:44. | :04:49. | ||
Commission ruling to play hymns, some played more loudly than others. | :04:49. | :04:53. | |
So a more exuberant but the process seemed to be more respectful than | :04:53. | :04:58. | |
before. Sometimes it can be interpreted by members of the | :04:58. | :05:03. | |
community as insulting. The majority went well. Some loyalist | :05:03. | :05:05. | |
protesters outside a Catholic church in East Belfast vented their | :05:05. | :05:08. | |
anger at parade restrictions by encouraging bands to play louder | :05:08. | :05:18. | |
:05:18. | :05:20. | ||
and sing banned songs. And when a bandsman was photographed urinating | :05:20. | :05:28. | |
near the church, the Orange Order apologised. The behaviour, what he | :05:28. | :05:32. | |
had done, anyway in public it should not happen, but particularly | :05:32. | :05:36. | |
at a place of worship, it was wrong. While the day passed without | :05:36. | :05:39. | |
serious incident, the failure to secure agreements in the weeks | :05:39. | :05:44. | |
leading up to it revealed deep divisions between both sides. | :05:44. | :05:47. | |
Saturday's Covenant parade was a relatively quiet end to a marching | :05:47. | :05:50. | |
season that lasted a month longer than in previous years. But the | :05:50. | :05:58. | |
parading problems thrown up by the summer remain unresolved. At the | :05:58. | :06:00. | |
heart of the controversy is the future of the Parades Commission. | :06:01. | :06:03. | |
We've looked back over the disputes to piece together why there were | :06:04. | :06:08. | |
problems and to examine the Parades Commission's determinations. | :06:08. | :06:11. | |
Rioting in Ardoyne in north Belfast on the Twelfth, a day that tested | :06:11. | :06:15. | |
the police to their limits. It wasn't supposed to be like this. | :06:15. | :06:25. | |
:06:25. | :06:26. | ||
And it would end in a serious attack. The Orange Order's march | :06:27. | :06:30. | |
had had restrictions placed on it by the Parades Commission. In an | :06:30. | :06:32. | |
attempt to prevent confrontation, they said the Orange marchers had | :06:32. | :06:36. | |
to return past nationalist Ardoyne much earlier than normal. By 4 | :06:36. | :06:46. | |
:06:46. | :06:47. | ||
o'clock. Much to the irritation of the loyalist and unionist community. | :06:47. | :06:52. | |
It caused great distress in the way the unions family was. A | :06:52. | :06:56. | |
reprehensible decision -- Unionist family. It literally forced the | :06:56. | :07:02. | |
loyal orders to return by 4pm. same day, Republicans also wanted | :07:02. | :07:05. | |
to march in Ardoyne. Two separate protests were planned. The | :07:05. | :07:08. | |
organiser of one says their aim was clear, to challenge the Parades | :07:08. | :07:18. | |
:07:18. | :07:22. | ||
Commission. We were challenging them. We say who has primacy? | :07:22. | :07:24. | |
effort to accommodate all sides, the parades commission allowed the | :07:24. | :07:28. | |
two republican protests AND a loyalist one - to go ahead, as well | :07:28. | :07:32. | |
as the Orange parade. It led to a Of republicans and loyalists cheek | :07:32. | :07:41. | |
by jowl in the middle of the road. The police were caught in the | :07:42. | :07:50. | |
middle. How close did it come to the wire to getting out of control? | :07:50. | :07:56. | |
There was a period of five full ten minutes undoubtedly and it was | :07:56. | :08:05. | |
incredibly difficult. -- I had to make sure nobody got hurt. I after | :08:05. | :08:11. | |
a day of tension and violence, the commission was criticised. Except | :08:11. | :08:15. | |
it was a challenging position for the police on the day and whatever | :08:15. | :08:19. | |
decisions were taken, there would have been problematic issues. | :08:20. | :08:24. | |
rioting worsened as the night went on and things turned more sinister | :08:24. | :08:34. | |
:08:34. | :08:37. | ||
as a dissident republican gunman shot at police, firing 17 rounds. | :08:37. | :08:44. | |
The day after the 12th, a video emerged showing a loyalist marching | :08:44. | :08:48. | |
band stopping to play what many regard the sectarian tune outside | :08:48. | :08:58. | |
:08:58. | :09:03. | ||
St Patrick's church. There was fury within the nationalist community. | :09:03. | :09:06. | |
The band responsible has not talked publicly about its actions, until | :09:06. | :09:10. | |
now. One of the band members spoke exclusively to us. I do not believe | :09:10. | :09:16. | |
the band did anything wrong on the day. What we did on Twelfth of July, | :09:16. | :09:24. | |
we did throughout the day, on the entirety of the route. It is just | :09:24. | :09:30. | |
what we do. The band in no way, as I see it, did anything wrong on the | :09:31. | :09:37. | |
day. He was one of those who stopped outside St Patrick's. He | :09:37. | :09:44. | |
feels the actions of the band have been exaggerated. There is nowhere | :09:44. | :09:50. | |
else in the world he would see the media taking the story of a band | :09:50. | :09:55. | |
playing outside a church. Over the top of 17 shots being fired at | :09:56. | :10:00. | |
police officers. It was not the act of playing that caused such offence, | :10:00. | :10:08. | |
it was the choice of music. tune we played was Sloop John B. We | :10:08. | :10:13. | |
cannot be held responsible for what people perceived to be. My honest | :10:13. | :10:18. | |
opinion if people think it was sectarian, surely they have a | :10:18. | :10:23. | |
mindset that is sectarian. Many say it is sectarian because it also | :10:23. | :10:29. | |
goes by the name of the Famine Song, a standard of Glasgow Rangers | :10:29. | :10:38. | |
supporters. We played tunes set out before we walk. In our eyes, it was | :10:38. | :10:45. | |
a genuine song. And if people perceived it as the Famine Song, if | :10:45. | :10:52. | |
somebody... If somebody felt hat, from what the band did, the band, | :10:52. | :10:58. | |
by all means, will apologise and has apologised. We did not set out | :10:58. | :11:08. | |
:11:08. | :11:08. | ||
that day to cause anybody upset. It was a day of exuberance. We do what | :11:08. | :11:14. | |
we do every Twelfth of July. Act is little comfort to the priest | :11:14. | :11:19. | |
at St Patrick's, who was abroad when he heard about their actions. | :11:19. | :11:27. | |
I sent a text message and e-mail to say -- I received, it said to check | :11:27. | :11:32. | |
the website and I was quite shocked by it. My response was, what is | :11:32. | :11:39. | |
going on? And why are we being focused? Why are we being singled | :11:39. | :11:44. | |
out for this particular behaviour? Father Sheehan quickly found out | :11:44. | :11:50. | |
how upset parishioners were. They were horrified and insulted. They | :11:50. | :11:55. | |
felt belittled. They felt that nothing had changed in decades. | :11:55. | :12:04. | |
That day felt they were second- class citizens. And if we were | :12:04. | :12:10. | |
insulted by it, tough. She shortly after the video emerged, the band | :12:10. | :12:14. | |
apologised for any offence and said that members did not realise they | :12:14. | :12:20. | |
were outside a church. Some people would say they did not deliberately | :12:20. | :12:26. | |
do that and I am trying to be open to that. To the Catholic community, | :12:26. | :12:31. | |
it was an insult. Many others would say it was not intended as an | :12:31. | :12:36. | |
insult, but to stand outside the church and to do that, it is an | :12:36. | :12:44. | |
The YCV band's actions could not be ignored. They'd broken the Parades | :12:44. | :12:47. | |
Commission's code of conduct. And the body had to be seen to act. | :12:47. | :12:53. | |
Once more, how it acted made it the target of trenchant criticism. It | :12:53. | :12:56. | |
decided to place restrictions on an entire set of bands marching past | :12:56. | :13:03. | |
St Patrick's, on a Royal Black Preceptory Parade in late August. | :13:03. | :13:07. | |
They were only to play a single drumbeat - and the YCV band weren't | :13:07. | :13:13. | |
to walk past at all. Mervyn Gibson, chaplain to the Royal Black | :13:13. | :13:15. | |
Preceptory and an Orange Order spokesman, claims the Parades | :13:15. | :13:21. | |
Commission was acting in a vengeful way. You just cannot come out of | :13:21. | :13:24. | |
the blue, ban an organisation, a whole parade, from playing music at | :13:24. | :13:28. | |
a particular time. For no particular reason other than spite. | :13:28. | :13:31. | |
The marching fraternity was incensed, and decided it had had | :13:31. | :13:35. | |
enough. I think it was a case that people were asked would they | :13:35. | :13:38. | |
support a breaking of a determination if that was the case. | :13:38. | :13:42. | |
And I believe there was support for that decision. Unionist politicians | :13:42. | :13:46. | |
were prepared to lend them support. On the eve of the march an open | :13:46. | :13:48. | |
letter was written Owen Paterson, then Secretary of State, calling | :13:48. | :13:56. | |
the Parades Commission's decision "monstrous". I think it was | :13:56. | :14:00. | |
unhelpful. I think whenever I saw that letter produced, publicised, | :14:00. | :14:03. | |
the morning of the parade, I mean it was quite obvious that it was | :14:03. | :14:09. | |
not going to have a helpful effect. It was signed by a many unionist | :14:09. | :14:11. | |
politicians - including First Minister Peter Robinson, who was | :14:11. | :14:16. | |
abroad on holiday. When you've got someone who is supposed to be | :14:16. | :14:19. | |
leading an administration signing a letter which in practise encouraged | :14:19. | :14:21. | |
people to breach a determination which the Parades Commission had | :14:21. | :14:28. | |
established. I mean that is the opposite of political leadership, | :14:28. | :14:34. | |
that is running in behind the extremists. On the day of the | :14:34. | :14:36. | |
parade, bands openly flouted the Parades Commission's ruling - | :14:36. | :14:41. | |
playing loudly and proudly as they passed the Church. Father Sheehan | :14:41. | :14:47. | |
could only look on. The next thing I heard was the bands striking up | :14:47. | :14:52. | |
but becoming louder. And I was shocked because I couldn't believe | :14:52. | :14:56. | |
it and I thought maybe it was just a one off thing. Then the next band | :14:56. | :15:00. | |
struck up and the third band and the fourth and at that stage i | :15:00. | :15:07. | |
thought this is just crazy. And I couldn't understand why it was | :15:07. | :15:11. | |
happening. I had never ever witnessed anything of such anger | :15:11. | :15:19. | |
and eh would appear to be venom and sectarian hatred as I did then. I | :15:19. | :15:23. | |
was shocked by it, I was horrified by it. I was still shaking after it. | :15:23. | :15:29. | |
I know that. It's up to the police to uphold Parades Commission | :15:29. | :15:35. | |
determinations. But the police chose not to block the bands and | :15:35. | :15:40. | |
instead stood back, shouting warnings. You have an option you | :15:40. | :15:43. | |
can enforce at the time or but enforcement at the time stopping | :15:43. | :15:46. | |
that parade will lead seven thousand people to go where? I am | :15:46. | :15:49. | |
absolutely certain that the judgement that we exercised on the | :15:49. | :15:52. | |
25th was a right judgement in terms of both communities in North | :15:52. | :15:56. | |
Belfast. The Parades Commission had been openly defied. Peter Osborne | :15:56. | :16:00. | |
denies that it had been fatally undermined. The vast majority of | :16:00. | :16:04. | |
determinations are adhered to. Where they are not adhered to, | :16:04. | :16:07. | |
first of all the police gather evidence Secondly it's the sort of | :16:07. | :16:10. | |
issue we would take into account for future determinations if | :16:10. | :16:17. | |
necessary. More than 30 bands broke the Parades Commission | :16:17. | :16:25. | |
determination. They were criticised by some Protestant clergy, but DUP | :16:25. | :16:27. | |
minister Nelson McCausland sympathised with them. There is an | :16:27. | :16:29. | |
anger, there is a resentment within the unionist community and | :16:29. | :16:37. | |
therefore something such as this was almost inevitable. To be able | :16:37. | :16:40. | |
to say look, this is completely wrong, or you have to support the | :16:40. | :16:43. | |
law - that's what the role of a senior politician should be. Not | :16:43. | :16:46. | |
coming along and saying, look the Parades Commission, it shouldn't be | :16:46. | :16:51. | |
there, we shouldn't talk to them and we deplore their determinations. | :16:51. | :16:57. | |
I mean that just gives an open door to people who are going to riot. | :16:57. | :17:00. | |
What happened on the 25th was genuinely a protest against the | :17:00. | :17:07. | |
parade commission's decision. I wouldn't see it as law breaking. | :17:07. | :17:12. | |
was law breaking. You say it was law breaking, I am saying it was a | :17:12. | :17:16. | |
protest, something, a line in the sand had to be drew, it had to be | :17:16. | :17:21. | |
done. Determinations can be protested against, but when they're | :17:21. | :17:26. | |
flouted, the law is broken. there is a bad law there that | :17:26. | :17:29. | |
doesn't show equality and is enacted against the institution, I | :17:29. | :17:31. | |
think there will be peaceful protests against that until it is | :17:31. | :17:38. | |
changed. For the police, the legacy of these events was mounting | :17:38. | :17:45. | |
tension among loyalists, convinced they were being persecuted. It was | :17:45. | :17:47. | |
almost like a pressure cooker effect within the wider community | :17:48. | :17:57. | |
:17:58. | :17:59. | ||
in. One week on from the bands' act of defiance, a republican parade | :17:59. | :18:03. | |
made its way past Clifton Street - without any restrictions. It was to | :18:03. | :18:05. | |
spark sustained rioting involving hundreds of waiting Loyalists. Once | :18:05. | :18:10. | |
again, the police were in the middle. That was three days of some | :18:10. | :18:13. | |
of the most intense rioting we have seen in Northern Ireland over the | :18:13. | :18:17. | |
course of a number of years to the most intense barrage of missiles | :18:17. | :18:20. | |
that led to over sixty of them being injured over the course of | :18:20. | :18:23. | |
that three days It led Will Kerr to publicly criticise the leadership | :18:23. | :18:28. | |
of politicians. But what was frustrating for the police service | :18:28. | :18:30. | |
at the beginning of September was the continuant political focus on | :18:30. | :18:33. | |
blaming the other side there's no such thing in a mature civic | :18:33. | :18:36. | |
society in 2012 as righteous anger that justifies the intensity and | :18:36. | :18:39. | |
the level of violence that we saw between the 2nd and 4th of | :18:39. | :18:45. | |
September in Carlise Circus. Unionist politicians, who'd been | :18:45. | :18:47. | |
happy to rail against the Parades Commission before the violence, | :18:47. | :18:51. | |
were then criticised for not coming out to condemn it. The DUP's Nigel | :18:51. | :18:57. | |
Dodds says that's grossly unfair. The DUP have a clear record of | :18:57. | :18:59. | |
condemning violence and we condemn violence absolutely, and Peter | :18:59. | :19:02. | |
Robinson and I visited the Lower Shankill and spoke to local | :19:02. | :19:09. | |
residents. This attempt to turn it round that somehow Unionist | :19:09. | :19:15. | |
politicians were slow to condemn violence that is absolute nonsense. | :19:15. | :19:18. | |
After three days of disorder, the First Minister publicly condemned | :19:18. | :19:20. | |
the rioting I think very consistently I've condemned anyone | :19:20. | :19:23. | |
who's involved in violence and breaking the law, that's a role | :19:23. | :19:25. | |
that you would expect any first minister, indeed it's consistently | :19:25. | :19:28. | |
been my position. I think there are undoubtedly very high tensions in | :19:28. | :19:38. | |
:19:38. | :19:46. | ||
north Belfast and indeed other My role is to ensure that we don't | :19:46. | :19:56. | |
:19:56. | :19:57. | ||
add to those difficulties by things that are said and done. Perhaps if | :19:57. | :20:01. | |
everyone took as step back and said a lot less, we might be in a much | :20:01. | :20:06. | |
better position to resolve these issues. But they will only be | :20:06. | :20:08. | |
resolved on the basis of mutual respect. But some commentators | :20:08. | :20:11. | |
believe unionist politicians were too slow with their condemnation. | :20:11. | :20:13. | |
think it was hugely damaging because it looked like they were | :20:14. | :20:16. | |
running away. It looked like they recognised they had got it wrong. | :20:17. | :20:20. | |
It was one of the biggest, I think, own goals that Unionism and Orange | :20:20. | :20:23. | |
have scored in the past two or three years. With the landmark | :20:23. | :20:25. | |
Covenant Centenary Parade just weeks away, the loyal orders tried | :20:26. | :20:30. | |
to build bridges. All eyes, including the Parades Commission, | :20:30. | :20:34. | |
were on them. So there was an apology for offences caused to the | :20:34. | :20:36. | |
church. And the Orange Order offered to meet the St Patrick's | :20:36. | :20:40. | |
parishioners. The Orange Order was hoping the talks it had offered | :20:40. | :20:43. | |
might lead to a deal to ease tensions in the area. With a summer | :20:43. | :20:46. | |
of trouble behind them, but one of their biggest events ahead, they | :20:46. | :20:50. | |
wanted to avoid restrictions from the Parades Commission. Father | :20:50. | :20:52. | |
Sheehan and a handful of parishioners agreed to meet with | :20:53. | :21:02. | |
:21:03. | :21:03. | ||
them. I had never been involved in anything like this in my life. I am | :21:03. | :21:06. | |
not a negotiator, I am not trained in anything like that. I just | :21:06. | :21:10. | |
jumped in with two feet. And it was always my firm hope that if orange | :21:10. | :21:13. | |
and residents met that they would have found a common ground which | :21:13. | :21:18. | |
would have been clearly evident to both. The meeting with parishioners | :21:18. | :21:21. | |
was seen as a big development. But there was no meeting with residents | :21:21. | :21:27. | |
of the area. The Orange Order had for years blocked talks with | :21:27. | :21:30. | |
residents groups, but revealed that as far back as March it had dropped | :21:30. | :21:33. | |
that ban. We decided that we just couldn't sit back and allow the | :21:33. | :21:42. | |
parades commission to continue eh what they were doing. So we said | :21:42. | :21:45. | |
what we do need to do is to move things forward ourselves as an | :21:45. | :21:48. | |
organisation? But the talks didn't work - they ground to a halt over | :21:48. | :21:51. | |
the issue of whether the Order would talk to residents of nearby | :21:51. | :21:54. | |
Carrick Hill. I could not understand why that wouldn't happen. | :21:54. | :21:57. | |
And my hope was that that would happen. The Orange Order however | :21:57. | :22:01. | |
considered it a success. I think we have seen that we can engage and do | :22:01. | :22:07. | |
engage. And even engage at every parade of many people. This time we | :22:07. | :22:11. | |
actually engaged at a place where there had been contention and at a | :22:11. | :22:14. | |
place where there had been hurt caused. And I believe we engaged in | :22:14. | :22:17. | |
a way that was genuine. In a way that lead to mutual understanding, | :22:17. | :22:21. | |
and I believe lead to a resolution of that particular issue. There had | :22:22. | :22:24. | |
been engagement, but there hadn't been a solution. Once again it was | :22:25. | :22:27. | |
back to the Parades Commission to make a decision. The Parades | :22:27. | :22:30. | |
Commission said that only hymns were to be played outside churches, | :22:30. | :22:36. | |
and played with respect. That was flouted by some. Leaders from all | :22:36. | :22:38. | |
sides though have praised the relative calm of the Covenant | :22:38. | :22:45. | |
celebration. The question is after a summer of violence and protest | :22:45. | :22:51. | |
around parades - at what cost was this Centenary success bought? | :22:51. | :22:54. | |
Policing disorder arising from this summer's parading has cost the PSNI | :22:54. | :22:59. | |
considerably. Exact figures will be presented to the Policing Board on | :22:59. | :23:09. | |
:23:09. | :23:09. | ||
Thursday. But we can reveal that the cost is already up on last year, | :23:09. | :23:11. | |
without taking into account the loyalist rioting in September or | :23:11. | :23:14. | |
Saturday's parade. The total for this year's marching season will be | :23:14. | :23:22. | |
over �6.5 million. That's up around �800,000 from last year. �6 million | :23:22. | :23:25. | |
is �6 million, which a police service can't spend on things that | :23:25. | :23:28. | |
matter more to local communities for the real, rest of the year. �6 | :23:28. | :23:33. | |
million is far too much money to spend on this area. Will Kerr has a | :23:33. | :23:37. | |
strong view about how those costs should be met in the future. | :23:37. | :23:40. | |
would say quite legitimately I think that people should take | :23:40. | :23:43. | |
responsibility and share a burden of the costs whenever the platform | :23:43. | :23:46. | |
of an event leads to associated disorder we would welcome a debate | :23:46. | :23:56. | |
:23:56. | :23:56. | ||
about where that cost would lie. Politicians here also have to | :23:56. | :24:00. | |
grapple with their failure, so far, to sort out the issue of parading. | :24:00. | :24:04. | |
It all comes down to the question of what will replace the Parades | :24:04. | :24:08. | |
Commission. Alistair Graham was on the very first Parades Commission | :24:08. | :24:12. | |
in 1998. It was his commission that first dealt with the annual problem | :24:12. | :24:18. | |
of Drumcree. I thought it would be an issue for a long period of time. | :24:18. | :24:21. | |
I didn't think the Parades Commission would still be in | :24:21. | :24:23. | |
existence, taking week to week, month to month decisions about | :24:23. | :24:28. | |
parades in Northern Ireland. I have genuinely been staggered by the | :24:28. | :24:31. | |
degree and the progress that has been made in political decision | :24:31. | :24:35. | |
making in Northern Ireland. But unfortunately we haven't made the | :24:35. | :24:42. | |
same progress in dealing with parades. Back in 2010, the DUP and | :24:42. | :24:50. | |
Sinn Fein thought they had it cracked. They came up with | :24:50. | :24:54. | |
proposals that would have created a new panel to rule on parades. But | :24:54. | :24:56. | |
the Orange Order voted not to support it, effectively killing the | :24:56. | :24:59. | |
plan off. There was elements within the institution that didn't want | :24:59. | :25:02. | |
that. Some I believe for political reasons, some for genuine reasons | :25:02. | :25:05. | |
that they were against them. I was involved in producing them, so yes, | :25:05. | :25:08. | |
I think they should have adopted them. But it is a democratic | :25:08. | :25:11. | |
organisation and they rejected them, albeit by a very small minority, | :25:11. | :25:13. | |
but that is democracy. That rejection called into question the | :25:13. | :25:16. | |
DUP's ability to deliver on parading. What the DUP should have | :25:16. | :25:19. | |
done was went ahead with it because the Orange order were represented | :25:19. | :25:22. | |
in all of that. They showed a weakness of leadership by not | :25:22. | :25:25. | |
seeing that through It also meant that the current Parades | :25:25. | :25:27. | |
Commission's life had to be extended until next year. Nigel | :25:27. | :25:30. | |
Dodds says there's still time to find a replacement. It's important | :25:30. | :25:33. | |
that people buy into and have confidence in a regime they have to | :25:33. | :25:36. | |
operate under and that applies to any walk of life so far as | :25:36. | :25:41. | |
government is concerned. No, I would've preferred that we had | :25:41. | :25:44. | |
moved forward on the basis of proposals that are out there but | :25:44. | :25:48. | |
we're not precious or signed up that it has to be these 2010 | :25:48. | :25:51. | |
proposals, this is set in concrete, far from it, we want to move this | :25:51. | :25:55. | |
forward. Under the 2010 proposals, oversight of parading would have | :25:55. | :26:01. | |
been devolved to the office of first and deputy first ministers. | :26:01. | :26:11. | |
:26:11. | :26:12. | ||
Alistair Graham says that's a bad Well I would be strongly against | :26:12. | :26:17. | |
that. I think to put this toxic issue of parades into the heart of | :26:17. | :26:24. | |
the political process would be a high risk strategy indeed. | :26:24. | :26:27. | |
solution many seek is for residents and marchers to come to agreements | :26:27. | :26:31. | |
on parading. The Orange Order meeting with Church parishioners | :26:31. | :26:34. | |
this summer shows that they think there's mileage in the idea, if | :26:34. | :26:39. | |
only to bypass the Commission. It's also led to increasing calls for | :26:39. | :26:47. | |
the Order to meet with Sinn Fein. have no doubt that they see the | :26:47. | :26:51. | |
orange will see the way ahead is to talk to Sinn Fein, is to talk to | :26:51. | :26:54. | |
residents groups. And then get more marches and more permission to | :26:54. | :27:02. | |
march as a result of that than refusing to speak. I think it will | :27:02. | :27:05. | |
eventually happen. Some people in the institution will never want it | :27:05. | :27:09. | |
to happen which is fair enough and i respect that view. I think it | :27:09. | :27:12. | |
will happen, but it won't happen when people are being enforced into | :27:12. | :27:15. | |
it or bullied in, or people think they are politically point scoring. | :27:15. | :27:18. | |
To do that the Orange Order will have to bring its members and | :27:18. | :27:21. | |
supporters with it. That will be a difficult sell to people like | :27:21. | :27:24. | |
bandsman Paul Shaw. If they're seen to be meeting republicans and | :27:24. | :27:27. | |
meeting Sinn Fein then it will tear the Order apart. I mean they will | :27:27. | :27:33. | |
lose all support from within itself, they are going against the grain. | :27:33. | :27:36. | |
If they have a policy and a principle set out, then they should | :27:36. | :27:40. | |
stand by it. If communities can't agree, most accept that decisions | :27:40. | :27:45. | |
from above are needed - basically what we have at present. So in many | :27:45. | :27:47. | |
ways we're at stalemate. The Parades Commission is certainly | :27:47. | :27:53. | |
unloved, but no-one yet has a better solution. We understand and | :27:53. | :27:56. | |
have always understood somebody has to arbitrate when there is dispute | :27:56. | :27:59. | |
around parades. We would prefer that not to reach that stage but | :27:59. | :28:03. | |
there is some parades will reach that stage. All we want is a body | :28:03. | :28:06. | |
in there that will deal with us all fairly. That is certainly not the | :28:06. | :28:09. | |
case with this Parades Commission. And hasn't been in the past. | :28:09. | :28:12. | |
Whether the critical decisions around parading remain with the | :28:12. | :28:14. | |
Commission or move to Stormont, the process will remain deeply tainted | :28:14. | :28:22. | |
by suspicion. It is a total disgrace the way we are being boxed | :28:22. | :28:27. | |
up and put in to cold storage. I mean it would suit everybody all | :28:27. | :28:36. | |
right for the Protestant people just to disappear. Nationalists | :28:37. | :28:40. | |
also face a decade of events that may likely be as contentious as the | :28:40. | :28:43. | |
Covenant celebrations. Yet they, too, have their problems, and will | :28:43. | :28:45. | |
be looking over their shoulder at hard-liners emboldened through this | :28:45. | :28:48. | |
summer's protest at parades. reality is I don't think there is a | :28:48. | :28:51. | |
solution to the parading commission, where you continue to have a turf | :28:51. | :28:55. | |
war, and there will always be a turf war in parts of Northern | :28:55. | :28:57. | |
Ireland. And nobody, whether it's the Assembly, whether it's the | :28:57. | :28:59. | |
Parades Commission, whether it's another entirely invented | :28:59. | :29:01. | |
organisation, I don't think anyone can resolve the bottom problem, | :29:02. | :29:08. | |
which is that one side really doesn't like the other. That mutual | :29:08. | :29:12. | |
animosity will always find an outlet in problem parades. A | :29:12. | :29:14. | |
century after the Ulster Convenant, Northern Ireland has worked through | :29:14. | :29:18. |