Browse content similar to 06/11/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Good evening. David Black was buried today. His republican | :00:26. | :00:30. | |
killers were described at the funeral as murderous thugs and | :00:30. | :00:36. | |
bloodthirsty criminals. In tonight's programme, we reflect on | :00:36. | :00:39. | |
the killing of a special hero who was looking forward to retirement | :00:40. | :00:49. | |
:00:50. | :00:51. | ||
after a life a service as a police officer. | :00:51. | :00:55. | |
Somebody needs to tell me this strategy because I can't see it, | :00:55. | :01:00. | |
and if I can't, how can other people? And we hear how the pain of | :01:00. | :01:06. | |
losing and the of one to violence never goes away. You don't get used | :01:06. | :01:10. | |
to it. You live with the constant loss and devastation of what that | :01:10. | :01:16. | |
is all about, and loneliness. Black was a loving father and | :01:16. | :01:23. | |
husband devoted to his elderly parents. He was a hard-working but | :01:23. | :01:27. | |
easy-going man. Bruijn in Hollywood looks back on the life and the | :01:27. | :01:37. | |
:01:37. | :01:38. | ||
His friends all agree that David Black was a man with a great sense | :01:38. | :01:43. | |
of humour, always smiling and ready with a joke. He liked to travel, | :01:43. | :01:45. | |
enjoyed rugby and bowling, and was looking forward to spending more | :01:45. | :01:50. | |
time with his family. There was the prospect of retirement next year | :01:50. | :01:59. | |
after a lifetime in the prison At his funeral today in Cookstown, | :01:59. | :02:09. | |
:02:09. | :02:13. | ||
son Kyle paid tribute to the father All that he did was for money, my | :02:13. | :02:18. | |
brother and myself. To give us the best start in life that he possibly | :02:18. | :02:26. | |
could. What a role-model. He had all the characteristics of a | :02:27. | :02:36. | |
perfect daddy. David Black had been a prison officer for three decades, | :02:36. | :02:40. | |
his career stretching back to some of the worst times of the Troubles. | :02:40. | :02:43. | |
In recent years, he had been based at Maghaberry Prison, just over ten | :02:43. | :02:47. | |
miles away from here. At half seven last Thursday morning, as he was | :02:47. | :02:51. | |
driving to work along this stretch of the M1 close to Lurgan, his | :02:51. | :02:55. | |
killers struck. The shooting has caused deep upset | :02:55. | :03:01. | |
in David Black's home town. community are behind the family and | :03:01. | :03:06. | |
are very surprised and shocked at this time that we are going back to | :03:06. | :03:11. | |
the Troubles. We thought it was over. It is not what we want. | :03:11. | :03:17. | |
shocked to be fair. I do know the family. It was a shock because we | :03:17. | :03:21. | |
thought those days was over and gone and that everything had moved | :03:21. | :03:27. | |
on. A lot of people are disgusted. I know his wife. She was a district | :03:27. | :03:32. | |
nurse for my mum and she was a lovely woman. Life is hard enough | :03:32. | :03:37. | |
without your loved one and father and husband been wiped away on his | :03:37. | :03:43. | |
way to work. David Black had grown up in the Cookstown area. According | :03:43. | :03:46. | |
to the Prison Service, his work at Maghaberry would not have brought | :03:46. | :03:49. | |
him into close, direct contact with dissident republicans. As such, he | :03:49. | :03:52. | |
may not even have considered himself a potential target. Was he | :03:53. | :03:58. | |
concerned about his security? never mentioned it. He went about | :03:58. | :04:04. | |
talking to people, anybody that he met, both himself and his wife, who | :04:04. | :04:10. | |
is very well thought of. The whole family are well thought of in the | :04:10. | :04:14. | |
Cookstown area. David just went about talking to people as normal. | :04:14. | :04:18. | |
Praise for David Black has come from some unlikely sources. This | :04:18. | :04:20. | |
former INLA prisoner recalls the kindness Mr Black showed to him | :04:21. | :04:27. | |
while he was inside. No, I don't believe he would ever suspect that | :04:27. | :04:32. | |
he would be a target. I don't think he ever thought anybody would hate | :04:32. | :04:39. | |
him that way. I don't think he would have thought that he had done | :04:39. | :04:44. | |
anything on republicans to have hurt him, I have never heard about | :04:44. | :04:51. | |
it from any republican that I know. But these men on not republican. | :04:51. | :04:55. | |
What is the feeling among republicans that you know about his | :04:55. | :05:02. | |
death? Anger, pure anger, anger, hatred. To claim to do this in our | :05:02. | :05:08. | |
name. Stop. David Black's family has stated | :05:08. | :05:11. | |
that there should be no retaliation for the murder of the man whose | :05:11. | :05:16. | |
killing has shattered their lives. While his funeral was taking place | :05:16. | :05:22. | |
in Cookstown, a vigil in his memory was being held at Belfast City Hall. | :05:23. | :05:24. | |
Hundreds of people attended, including leading figures from | :05:25. | :05:31. | |
loyalism. It is a tragedy. People are definitely trying to take us | :05:31. | :05:39. | |
back to the dark old days and the unfortunate thing... We pray that | :05:39. | :05:43. | |
the authorities deal with him. Don't get drawn into this what ever | :05:43. | :05:45. | |
you do. His killers succeeded in murdering | :05:45. | :05:48. | |
David Black, but they failed to extinguish the positive impact he | :05:48. | :05:56. | |
had on other people's lives. He was a family man, he enjoyed a joke. He | :05:56. | :06:01. | |
always had a smile on his face. I think that is the lasting memory | :06:01. | :06:10. | |
that I will have of him. Kate Carroll has some idea of what the | :06:10. | :06:16. | |
Blacks are suffering now. Her husband was murdered at as he | :06:16. | :06:21. | |
answered a call in Craigavon in 2009. You said that this tragedy | :06:21. | :06:28. | |
has brought your own immediate tragedy back in every detail. | :06:29. | :06:32. | |
remembered the day the police came to the door to tell me what | :06:32. | :06:42. | |
:06:42. | :06:43. | ||
happened. I had heard the news from a friend of mine, and I could see | :06:43. | :06:46. | |
all the peoples at there, I was sat in disbelief wondering what had | :06:46. | :06:51. | |
happened, how could it have happened, particularly in a time of | :06:51. | :06:57. | |
peace. It is not fair at the end of the day that the man wore a uniform | :06:57. | :07:06. | |
and because he wore a uniform, the dehumanised him, to shoot him. I | :07:06. | :07:10. | |
know what that lady is going through and it is so hard. So it | :07:10. | :07:17. | |
very, very hard. And the pain does not ever go away. No. You learn to | :07:17. | :07:22. | |
live with it but it never goes away. When things like this happen, it | :07:22. | :07:26. | |
stirs up all the feelings and they all come back. Because you know | :07:26. | :07:32. | |
what is given to happen. You know how those people will feel, what it | :07:32. | :07:38. | |
has done to the families, the devastation. You must have hoped | :07:38. | :07:42. | |
that theirs will be the last death. I did with Steve. I thought that | :07:43. | :07:49. | |
would be it, it was a one-off and it would never happen again, but | :07:49. | :07:54. | |
unfortunately it has happened again and it is devastating news. | :07:54. | :08:00. | |
your son, a grown man, has taken it particularly hard. He suffers from | :08:00. | :08:05. | |
depression. He has never been the same. It has had a tragic effect on | :08:05. | :08:10. | |
him and even on my granddaughters. She comes to my house and she wants | :08:11. | :08:20. | |
:08:21. | :08:22. | ||
to know where grand pas has gone and why he left. My some's life is | :08:22. | :08:28. | |
in tatters. Two men were convicted for his murder. Is that good for | :08:28. | :08:34. | |
you? It was but at the end of the day, there are more about there. It | :08:34. | :08:40. | |
has not taken it away. It has less and the pain because I know they | :08:40. | :08:48. | |
are in sight. -- inside. But there are more. What message would you | :08:48. | :08:55. | |
give? It hasn't helped, what you have done to Steve, it hasn't | :08:55. | :09:01. | |
helped what you have done in any way. The message I give to them is, | :09:01. | :09:07. | |
for goodness sake, listen to your Peers, realise that men have gone | :09:07. | :09:13. | |
to the moon, we can get messages around the world in five seconds | :09:13. | :09:17. | |
where it used to be five days. Can we not take our message on board | :09:18. | :09:25. | |
that people have lives to live, that people are doing a job? They | :09:25. | :09:28. | |
are not targets and it is inhumane to shoot and kill people for no | :09:28. | :09:34. | |
reason. We will be talking to the justice minister in a few minutes. | :09:34. | :09:39. | |
What do you say? I would ask him to look at the Sanson -- sentencing | :09:39. | :09:45. | |
tariffs and prisons. Try to make life a deterrent, do something that | :09:45. | :09:49. | |
would be a deterrent to those people, that would stop them from | :09:49. | :09:55. | |
hurting anybody else. I know you have left messages for the Black | :09:55. | :10:01. | |
family. What message would you give them tonight? To be strong. Not let | :10:01. | :10:05. | |
this turn you better. Take something positive act of the | :10:05. | :10:09. | |
negativity and move your life on as well as you possibly can. And as | :10:09. | :10:14. | |
you are doing with the Steve Carroll Foundation. Exactly. We are | :10:15. | :10:20. | |
trying to raise awareness for young Peace builders, to give children a | :10:20. | :10:25. | |
way forward, give them a more productive something to do in life | :10:25. | :10:30. | |
other than drugs and drink and getting entrenched in all of this | :10:30. | :10:37. | |
madness. Thank you very much indeed. The last murder of the prison | :10:37. | :10:41. | |
officer was almost 20 years ago but prison staff and their families | :10:41. | :10:47. | |
have continued to live closely guarded lives. This report on what | :10:47. | :10:54. | |
it is like to live always looking over your shoulder. | :10:54. | :10:56. | |
From behind these gates, paramilitaries continue to play | :10:56. | :11:03. | |
power games with government. Prisons and politics have always | :11:03. | :11:06. | |
been able to rock each other. Last Thursday, Northern Ireland was | :11:06. | :11:15. | |
reminded of that in the most brutal way. Since the closure of the Maze, | :11:15. | :11:18. | |
loyalist and republican terrorists have been housed in Maghaberry. The | :11:18. | :11:21. | |
prison officers' job is to keep them under lock and key, and they | :11:21. | :11:25. | |
know that for that, they know their lives are at risk. One prison | :11:25. | :11:28. | |
officer who doesn't want to be identified says staff anticipated | :11:28. | :11:38. | |
:11:38. | :11:40. | ||
This attack on David, I think there is obviously shock and surprise | :11:40. | :11:46. | |
that it happened. Unfortunately David, has lost his life because of | :11:46. | :11:53. | |
these cowards. Staff have been aware for a number of months, 12 or | :11:53. | :11:59. | |
18 months, that an attack is likely. The killing follows the murders two | :11:59. | :12:05. | |
years ago of soldiers at Massereene and a police officer in Craigavon. | :12:05. | :12:10. | |
Another PSNI member was killed in a Omagh last year. Dissident | :12:10. | :12:15. | |
republicans want copy the tactics of their predecessors. If you want | :12:15. | :12:19. | |
to be the IRA, you do all the things they did, you shoot police | :12:19. | :12:23. | |
officers, members of the security forces, police officers, they are | :12:23. | :12:29. | |
trying to be the IRA. David Black's murder is a reminder of the | :12:29. | :12:32. | |
sacrifice that prison officers have paid in the past, sacrifices that | :12:32. | :12:41. | |
Finlay Spratt do not have not been recognised. There was a. It work | :12:41. | :12:45. | |
about 10 prison officers were killed in my year. It that time, | :12:45. | :12:51. | |
prison officers in my view would be cannon fodder. News of this latest | :12:51. | :12:55. | |
murder has brought back acute and painful memories for her Beryl | :12:55. | :13:01. | |
Quigley. Her first husband was murdered by the IRA in 1984. At the | :13:01. | :13:05. | |
time, he was assistant governor of the Maze prison. It was a Tuesday | :13:05. | :13:11. | |
morning. He was dressed in his best new suit. We said our goodbyes, we | :13:11. | :13:17. | |
had hugs and kisses and myself and our little doctor, three and a half, | :13:17. | :13:21. | |
we are escorted him out to the car and they were still chatting as he | :13:21. | :13:27. | |
walked to the driver's door. They were on him in a matter of seconds | :13:27. | :13:32. | |
and the first gunman, he probably ended all of his gun into him, shot | :13:32. | :13:36. | |
him in their head and into his heart through his wallet. I had his | :13:36. | :13:40. | |
wallet with the bullet mark on it. The price paid by prison officers | :13:40. | :13:46. | |
reflects the fact that prisons have often been a key battleground in | :13:46. | :13:50. | |
the Republicans so-called armed struggle. Behind these walls, I | :13:50. | :13:54. | |
knew power-struggle has been ongoing between prisoners and the | :13:54. | :13:57. | |
authorities. Over 30 dissident Republican inmates have been on a | :13:58. | :14:02. | |
dirty protest and have been taking part on on of hunger strikes. They | :14:02. | :14:06. | |
have been asking for an end to strip searching and demanding the | :14:06. | :14:10. | |
introduction of new body scanning machines. They're asking for | :14:10. | :14:15. | |
greater freedom of movement. Prison protests can get more sympathy than | :14:15. | :14:19. | |
the armed campaign especially if you can present at the prisoners as | :14:19. | :14:25. | |
it being badly treated. The protests of that sort only really | :14:25. | :14:30. | |
stop when prisoners get control of the wings. That is exactly what | :14:30. | :14:35. | |
paramilitary prisoners are appeared to have in the 1980s and 1990s. | :14:35. | :14:40. | |
reality is that officers working in the houses in the Maze were message | :14:40. | :14:45. | |
boys for the paramilitaries. These people want to get back to the same | :14:45. | :14:48. | |
situation where prison officers are the message boys and they are in | :14:48. | :14:54. | |
charge. To some officers at least, it seems as though the dissidents | :14:54. | :14:59. | |
tactics are working today. They want more. I think because they are | :14:59. | :15:06. | |
not getting more, they are slowly but surely turning the ante up and | :15:06. | :15:11. | |
a member of staff are -- staff has paid the ultimate price. A another | :15:11. | :15:16. | |
officer says the prisoners are wearing down morale. Be seen to be | :15:16. | :15:20. | |
bending over for them. It is bending over and the staff have to | :15:20. | :15:25. | |
take the consequences. They are expected to work with the walls | :15:25. | :15:31. | |
smeared, pace under the doors... You get it in-your-face if you open | :15:31. | :15:37. | |
the door. Tension between a prison staff and inmates is highly, with | :15:37. | :15:41. | |
both serving and retiring officers worried about their security. Tommy | :15:41. | :15:46. | |
is one of those leaving soon. The day after day the Black's murder he | :15:46. | :15:51. | |
received a letter saying that he will have to hand back his gun when | :15:51. | :15:55. | |
he goes. How will be left without a weapon and have to apply for a | :15:55. | :16:00. | |
personal weapon and it will take between his 6 R eight weeks. Prison | :16:00. | :16:05. | |
officer market lives with his gun at his side and an attempt on his | :16:05. | :16:10. | |
life has left him feeling he needs it more than ever. The sad thing is | :16:10. | :16:15. | |
it you're gonna becomes part of you, it is not normal, but we are not in | :16:15. | :16:19. | |
a normal society as prison officers. For everyone connected with the | :16:19. | :16:23. | |
Prison Service, the latest murder has intensified an enduring sense | :16:23. | :16:29. | |
of suffering. You are left with all this grief, all this loss, you do | :16:29. | :16:36. | |
not the used to it, you'd love with the constant loss and devastation | :16:36. | :16:41. | |
and loneliness. That loss was inflicted by a previous generation | :16:41. | :16:45. | |
that has left murder behind, Beryl wants dissident republicans to do | :16:45. | :16:50. | |
the same. You need to sit down and top. Surely that is a better way | :16:50. | :16:55. | |
forward than trying to start something all over again at that | :16:55. | :17:01. | |
did not achieve an awful lot it been as much as killing does under- | :17:01. | :17:04. | |
achiever. The question is will the dissident republicans who murdered | :17:04. | :17:10. | |
David Black ever believe that? The Justice Minister David Ford | :17:10. | :17:14. | |
joins me now. You were at the funeral today, do believe his | :17:14. | :17:20. | |
murder was part of this campaign at Maghaberry? Let me say first of all, | :17:20. | :17:23. | |
because I have just come from the funeral, that the first thing we | :17:23. | :17:27. | |
should do is express our sympathy to the family and his colleagues. | :17:27. | :17:32. | |
What we heard of him today amplified what I heard last week, | :17:32. | :17:36. | |
of the fine prison officer he was, the care he had for those he had to | :17:36. | :17:43. | |
look after, and what he was as a family man. He was spoken about in | :17:43. | :17:47. | |
good terms by the prisoners as well. They were prisoners to be there | :17:47. | :17:51. | |
when I was there last Friday morning. Let me ask you again, do | :17:51. | :17:55. | |
you think his murder is part of the campaign at Maghaberry? I am not | :17:55. | :18:00. | |
sure whether those who murdered him needed any excuse about what is | :18:00. | :18:04. | |
happening in the prison. It seems that some of them are wedded to a | :18:04. | :18:08. | |
struggle rather than any potential outcome. They know it will not make | :18:08. | :18:12. | |
any difference other than to cause a grief and worry to families like | :18:12. | :18:16. | |
the black family. We know that they have the capacity to carry out | :18:16. | :18:19. | |
these random acts of great thoughtlessness, great | :18:19. | :18:23. | |
heartlessness, but it will not make any difference. It will not make | :18:23. | :18:27. | |
any difference to the political situation or to the peace process | :18:27. | :18:31. | |
were to the running of prisons. do you respond to what the prison | :18:31. | :18:35. | |
officer said in the films at, that concessions are being made and they | :18:35. | :18:38. | |
feel they are bending over backwards for the prisoners and the | :18:38. | :18:44. | |
staff have to take the strain of that? I do not except about | :18:44. | :18:47. | |
concessions are being made. The staff who have to deal with the | :18:48. | :18:52. | |
dissident Republican prisoners have an extraordinarily difficult job to | :18:52. | :18:57. | |
do which is being done with extreme professionalism and they are up | :18:57. | :19:01. | |
holding the higher standards and there is no doubt that that is | :19:01. | :19:04. | |
wearing to them but I do not accept that concessions are being made. | :19:04. | :19:09. | |
There was an agreement made in August, 2010 as to how it would be | :19:09. | :19:14. | |
managed, that has been broken, broken by a Republican prisoners... | :19:14. | :19:20. | |
They say that you Brocket. In it is on the Prison Service website. It | :19:20. | :19:25. | |
has been broken up by those who have threatened and now murdered a | :19:25. | :19:34. | |
prison officer. They believe it has been relied upon by her office. | :19:34. | :19:37. | |
Caral Ni Chuilin is wrong. It has been upheld by the Prison Service. | :19:37. | :19:42. | |
Some of the work that we are doing a round of the technological | :19:42. | :19:45. | |
alternative to for a body searching goes beyond the agreement. It is | :19:45. | :19:49. | |
trying to make a better situation for both staff and prisoners. I do | :19:49. | :19:52. | |
not accept that there is anything we have failed on but it it's | :19:53. | :19:56. | |
absolutely clear that those who have threatened and now killed a | :19:56. | :20:00. | |
prison officer have breached the agreement. It is about strip | :20:00. | :20:03. | |
searching and freedom of movement, do you believe that if agreement | :20:03. | :20:08. | |
was reached, there would be another issue brought up in the pursuit of | :20:08. | :20:12. | |
this wider cost? You heard it suggested on that clip that there | :20:12. | :20:16. | |
will be those who will be looking for more no matter what they get. | :20:16. | :20:21. | |
Full-body searching is carried out the same on every prisoner in | :20:21. | :20:24. | |
Maghaberry prison, whether they are separated or mainstream prisoners, | :20:24. | :20:29. | |
and that is the same that applies in the Gilligan and hidebound word | :20:29. | :20:33. | |
and every prison in England, Wales and Scotland as well. We are not | :20:33. | :20:38. | |
treating Republican prisoners was, we are treating them enshrined | :20:38. | :20:42. | |
implement a humane regime and better for our prison staff. What | :20:42. | :20:46. | |
about this issue of prison officers having to surrender their personal | :20:46. | :20:52. | |
protection weapons even before they have left the service? They feel it | :20:52. | :20:56. | |
very much at risk. No one is asked to surrender their weapons before | :20:56. | :21:00. | |
they leave the service. The particular issue is that normal | :21:00. | :21:05. | |
processes have been taking between 60 eight weeks. In the context | :21:05. | :21:08. | |
where individuals are leaving and having to hand back their weapon | :21:08. | :21:12. | |
are applying for a personal weapon in retirement, that normally has | :21:12. | :21:16. | |
been done within the normal timescale for retirement. Because | :21:16. | :21:19. | |
the voluntary early retirement scheme is moving quicker, we have | :21:19. | :21:22. | |
an agreement between the Department of Justice and the Prison Service | :21:23. | :21:26. | |
and the police service that they will expedite this application so | :21:26. | :21:29. | |
that they should be achieved within a approximately three weeks, in | :21:30. | :21:35. | |
other words less than that time in retirement. A new offer them more | :21:35. | :21:39. | |
protection? The security of prison officers and police officers is | :21:39. | :21:43. | |
under constant review. I have had a number of discussions with the | :21:43. | :21:47. | |
chief Constable as to what we can do to enhance the protection for | :21:47. | :21:51. | |
prison officers, but we have to recognise that we are dealing with | :21:51. | :21:55. | |
a small group of ruthless people who are determined to carry out | :21:55. | :21:58. | |
operations like they carried out last week. They have had a degree | :21:58. | :22:02. | |
of success because of their ruthlessness, but what we are doing | :22:02. | :22:05. | |
is insuring the best possible protection for all those who work | :22:05. | :22:10. | |
in the justice system. Thank you. In recent years, dissident ranks | :22:10. | :22:14. | |
have been strengthened by the defection of more Provisional IRA | :22:14. | :22:18. | |
members. The security services and thus did have thwarted many attacks | :22:18. | :22:22. | |
but the experienced ex IRA figures were held responsible for the | :22:22. | :22:26. | |
killing of two soldiers, two police officers and now a prison officer. | :22:26. | :22:33. | |
Is there a strategy behind the violence. David Black's murder | :22:33. | :22:38. | |
clearly took a degree of planning. It is believed he had been followed | :22:38. | :22:42. | |
by the killers from his home near Cookstown. At the same time, there | :22:42. | :22:46. | |
was a hoax alert at Sprissler us, possibly and aversion the tactic to | :22:46. | :22:53. | |
take that police away from the M1 - - Sprucefield. There is little | :22:53. | :22:56. | |
evidence that dissident republicans are putting as much thought into | :22:56. | :23:05. | |
their final destination. They are flat earth fanatics, living in the | :23:05. | :23:09. | |
dark Ages, spewing out hatred from every pore. The reality is that | :23:09. | :23:15. | |
they have not been able to mount any credible sustainable campaign. | :23:15. | :23:20. | |
The dissidents have shown they can kill people, but beyond that, what | :23:20. | :23:25. | |
they actually trying to achieve? Where in short to do they think | :23:25. | :23:33. | |
they are going? We know where they have come from? The Omagh bombing | :23:33. | :23:37. | |
was supposed to be the death of dissident report the -- support. | :23:37. | :23:42. | |
Since that atrocity, militant republicans opposed to the Good | :23:42. | :23:48. | |
Friday Agreement have regrouped and reorganised. Earlier this year, | :23:48. | :23:52. | |
Henry McDonald was taking over the border to be given a statement, | :23:52. | :23:56. | |
announcing that three dissident groups had merged to form one | :23:56. | :24:02. | |
organisation. He says that the men he met display to forensic | :24:02. | :24:05. | |
awareness. My personal impression was that these people were quite | :24:05. | :24:10. | |
well organised. They had fought out a plan, how they would deliver the | :24:10. | :24:14. | |
statement with the least possible risk to them. I had to leave my | :24:14. | :24:19. | |
mobile phone, my notebook, I took a page and a pencil, and searched -- | :24:20. | :24:23. | |
I was searched and I had to copy a statement it verbatim with my | :24:23. | :24:30. | |
pencil and paper. The original statement was then burnt. It was | :24:30. | :24:35. | |
all very professional, cold, co- ordinated and well organised and | :24:35. | :24:39. | |
clearly indicating that they were fearing it surveillance the whole | :24:39. | :24:43. | |
way. So more observers say that dissidents have tightened up | :24:43. | :24:47. | |
internal security to reduce their biggest problem, the team | :24:47. | :24:53. | |
infiltration by the intelligence agencies. Some believe that day the | :24:53. | :24:57. | |
Black's murder showed they are able to give intelligence agencies the | :24:57. | :25:03. | |
slip. The Garda Siochana seemed to me by more on top of human | :25:04. | :25:09. | |
intelligence, the infiltration of these organisations by informers. | :25:09. | :25:12. | |
The PSNI are suffering from an intelligence gap. The intelligence | :25:12. | :25:15. | |
picture will never be complete. There is the opportunity of | :25:15. | :25:18. | |
something like this happening and it has happened and probably will | :25:18. | :25:24. | |
happen again. Do not underestimate how good the security services have | :25:25. | :25:28. | |
been. They have been very up there in terms of the profile and they | :25:28. | :25:35. | |
have actually, I am sure we do not know the half of what goes on. | :25:35. | :25:40. | |
car used by David Black's killers was abandoned in Lurgan but | :25:40. | :25:43. | |
security services have told Spotlight they believed the murder | :25:43. | :25:47. | |
was carried out by dissidents from East Tyrone who are mainly former | :25:47. | :25:52. | |
Provisional IRA members. According to experts, they used to support | :25:52. | :25:58. | |
Sinn Fein. In the initial peace process phase, some members felt | :25:58. | :26:03. | |
the initiative of which Mr Adams and Mr McGuinness should be given a | :26:03. | :26:05. | |
chance who in recent years have felt that the project is not | :26:05. | :26:09. | |
working in the way they were promised, that the progress towards | :26:09. | :26:13. | |
Republican goals had not been as cast are substantial as they like. | :26:13. | :26:17. | |
My big concern is the experience of the Provisional IRA coming back | :26:17. | :26:21. | |
into it configures and that is borne out by the number of types of | :26:21. | :26:25. | |
incidents that were happening. It is really another take on 15 or 20 | :26:25. | :26:30. | |
years ago. The government says there has been a 20% drop in the | :26:30. | :26:35. | |
number of attacks this year, but there is evidence that the addition | :26:35. | :26:40. | |
of former Provisionals has made the dissidents more deadly. Last month, | :26:40. | :26:44. | |
by new and dangerous type of explosive device was found in the | :26:44. | :26:50. | |
Ardoyne in north Belfast. This is the same kind of device. It is | :26:50. | :26:54. | |
packed with Semtex and returns a compact Kohn of copper into a | :26:54. | :27:03. | |
modern jet. One American peers armour-plating. It is a serious | :27:03. | :27:09. | |
advance on anything the Provisional IRA used. While in their ability to | :27:09. | :27:14. | |
kill it may have been enhanced, mainstream republicans argue that | :27:14. | :27:21. | |
dissidence fall far short of being any kind of political force. Shone | :27:21. | :27:26. | |
Mary was once an IRA leader, seen here in 1988 at the funeral of one | :27:26. | :27:30. | |
of three IRA members who was killed in Gibraltar. Now a senior figure | :27:30. | :27:37. | |
in Sinn Fein, he says at the level of dissident support is minimal. | :27:37. | :27:42. | |
am a community acted that the -- activists and I do not to take -- | :27:42. | :27:49. | |
detect any support. If you look at their operational profile, of the | :27:49. | :27:53. | |
not indicate to me that they have mass support either. Looking at all | :27:53. | :27:57. | |
those sort of parameters, I do not see detect any support for their | :27:57. | :28:07. | |
:28:07. | :28:09. | ||
campaign. In nationalist areas, the graffiti on the wall is reminiscent | :28:09. | :28:13. | |
of the 1980s, Against the dissidents a visible presence, but | :28:13. | :28:17. | |
one we asked their political representatives in the Newry, | :28:17. | :28:20. | |
Lurgan and here in Belfast to top on camera, they all decline the | :28:20. | :28:28. | |
offer. Before the murder of David Black, Spotlight did put the | :28:28. | :28:32. | |
question of political strategy to a leading member of the dissident 32 | :28:32. | :28:35. | |
County Sovreignty Movement. Do dissident republicans have a | :28:35. | :28:45. | |
:28:45. | :28:46. | ||
political strategy? Dissident republicans, they believe in truth, | :28:46. | :28:53. | |
justice, sovereignty, it is a noble aspiration. High that is achieved, | :28:53. | :28:58. | |
unfortunately, is in hands of those who occupy part of Ireland. It will | :28:58. | :29:02. | |
be a long and hard road for Republicans, it has been going on | :29:02. | :29:08. | |
for 800 years and I do not think anyone is under any illusion that | :29:08. | :29:12. | |
it will be a short haul. dissidents are trying to use the | :29:12. | :29:18. | |
prisons issue as a way of building support, but he argues they will | :29:18. | :29:22. | |
fail because they do not have the same kind of political strategy | :29:22. | :29:27. | |
that underpinned the Provisional IRA's campaign. What do you think | :29:27. | :29:31. | |
their strategy is? A I cannot to attack any. Some of them would have | :29:31. | :29:35. | |
been former friends of mine, but there have been fall-outs over | :29:35. | :29:38. | |
policy and the direction that the Republican movement is moving in. | :29:38. | :29:43. | |
That is their choice. I would like them to tell me, some of his been | :29:43. | :29:46. | |
active in Republican politics for 40 years, what is there a strategy | :29:46. | :29:50. | |
of how they're going to achieve it, Republican objectives, because I | :29:50. | :29:56. | |
cannot see it and I cannot see it, how can other people see it? Visit | :29:56. | :30:01. | |
their Ian to keep a terrorist campaign it ticking over, hoping it | :30:01. | :30:06. | |
will Sunday reignite and bring it to a united Ireland? What they do | :30:06. | :30:09. | |
have is a way of keeping the flame burning, I would suggest that they | :30:09. | :30:13. | |
will be able to carry on some form of low-level campaign into the | :30:13. | :30:17. | |
future, but I do not think the conditions by their politically and | :30:17. | :30:26. | |
in terms of attitudes in the nationalist community. We should | :30:26. | :30:29. | |
probably get used to trying to manage it rather than see that will | :30:29. | :30:35. | |
go away. Deadly and death to any persuasion, the dissidents | :30:35. | :30:40. | |
campaigner look set to carry on as a constant legal danger. With no | :30:40. | :30:50. | |
:30:50. | :31:17. | ||
exit in sight. Are we are joined by Both of those children spoke over | :31:18. | :31:23. | |
the coffin of their father this afternoon. He was a public servant, | :31:23. | :31:28. | |
like a primary school teacher and a nurse is, and he was doing a job | :31:28. | :31:33. | |
for all of us in the public arena, so the answer lies in the community. | :31:33. | :31:38. | |
The community will respond. Somebody knows he provided the safe | :31:38. | :31:43. | |
house. Somebody knows who provided the gun. Somebody knows whether | :31:43. | :31:48. | |
people went after they burnt out the car. As community we have to | :31:48. | :31:55. | |
choose, do we stand on the side of the David Blacks? His murder was | :31:55. | :32:00. | |
unjustified and unjustifiable. The 29 other murders of prison officers | :32:00. | :32:05. | |
were equally unjustified and unjustifiable. This community will | :32:05. | :32:10. | |
choose life over death. Everybody I spoke to, from all different | :32:10. | :32:20. | |
:32:20. | :32:20. | ||
sections of the community... They will support public servants to a | :32:21. | :32:30. | |
:32:31. | :32:31. | ||
brave and courageous and do an important job. Shaun Murray it was | :32:31. | :32:37. | |
saying he has former friends who are now members and that must be | :32:37. | :32:46. | |
true for many republicans. As you said, Mark McGuinness, myself and | :32:46. | :32:52. | |
many of my colleagues have said over the years that we are very | :32:52. | :32:57. | |
keen to support the police. We have given our full support to policing | :32:57. | :33:03. | |
and that remains our decision. We have also said, and we are | :33:03. | :33:08. | |
repeating it, that policing needs to win in the community. Other | :33:08. | :33:12. | |
senior police officers will tell you they are getting unprecedented | :33:12. | :33:17. | |
levels of support from republicans in the community and that is a good | :33:17. | :33:24. | |
thing. The police need to continue building the confidence of the | :33:24. | :33:28. | |
republican community. Your community knows more about these | :33:28. | :33:33. | |
people than the PSNI das? That remains to be seen. I could tell | :33:33. | :33:38. | |
you people who have walked away from me as a friend because of what | :33:38. | :33:45. | |
could be a policy issue. Most of it seems quite personal. I have to say. | :33:45. | :33:50. | |
A lot of it is quite petty but some of it is policy based and that is | :33:50. | :33:56. | |
fair enough. People are entitled to not support Sinn Fein's political | :33:56. | :34:00. | |
analysis of the situation. If people are engaged in activities | :34:00. | :34:04. | |
like this, they shouldn't be and if anybody knows anything, they should | :34:04. | :34:10. | |
report it to the relevant authority. I say this publicly, the police | :34:10. | :34:13. | |
tell us they are getting unprecedented levels of co- | :34:13. | :34:22. | |
operation felt I do not accept that the PSNI and other organisations... | :34:22. | :34:30. | |
I have no doubt that organisations are well penetrated by the PSNI and | :34:30. | :34:34. | |
other security organisations, so I suggest the police and other people | :34:34. | :34:39. | |
know a lot more about what is going on in these organisations than the | :34:39. | :34:44. | |
people on the street. Kate Campbell said tougher sentencing and a | :34:44. | :34:54. | |
:34:54. | :35:00. | ||
tougher regime in prison could prevent this? -- Kate Carroll. | :35:00. | :35:03. | |
people are determined on doing these reckless murders, nothing | :35:03. | :35:09. | |
will prevent them and deter them. do not accept that. These issues | :35:09. | :35:14. | |
went around when they murdered 29 people and two unborn children in | :35:14. | :35:19. | |
Omagh, and Massereene. This is not about whether a prisoner has access | :35:19. | :35:24. | |
to Sky TV. I have comes from people in my own constituency this morning | :35:24. | :35:28. | |
who cannot afford their telephone bill, pensioners who are making a | :35:28. | :35:35. | |
choice tonight... If so would a stricter regime worked or not? | :35:35. | :35:43. | |
is not an issue of prisoner who has access to Sky TV and heating when | :35:43. | :35:48. | |
people on the outside did not have any of those luxuries. What needs | :35:48. | :35:51. | |
to happen is prison officers need to have the full support of the | :35:51. | :35:58. | |
community. I think they do have that. Secondly, where prison | :35:58. | :36:03. | |
officers are under threat, their cameras and security equipment must | :36:03. | :36:13. | |
be at the highest level possible. They need a regime to ensure the | :36:13. | :36:17. | |
utmost security. I am not sure this is anything to do with whether you | :36:17. | :36:22. | |
have access to Sky TV in prison. This is about people who have | :36:22. | :36:27. | |
murdered an innocent public servant and the community will respond. | :36:27. | :36:31. | |
What can the republican community do to make these people go away and | :36:31. | :36:38. | |
stop what they are doing? It has given a very clear message. | :36:38. | :36:40. | |
Whenever any individuals who appeared to be associated with some | :36:41. | :36:45. | |
of this business have put themselves forward to be elected, | :36:45. | :36:49. | |
they have been rejected. I welcome people putting themselves forward | :36:49. | :36:53. | |
but they should take the message to the people giving them. We all work | :36:53. | :36:57. | |
on the ground and in communities. I know there is very little support | :36:57. | :37:02. | |
for this kind of activity. People have already made their choices. | :37:02. | :37:06. | |
They are still killing. A small number of people continued that | :37:06. | :37:10. | |
because over the last number of years we have had the formations | :37:10. | :37:15. | |
and amalgamations and more factions coming together and nuclides. It | :37:15. | :37:20. | |
has not made a bit of difference to their effectiveness. I would urge | :37:20. | :37:24. | |
people who have integrity and to may be associated with them to | :37:24. | :37:28. | |
think again because they are not going to support -- win the support | :37:28. | :37:33. | |
of the republican community. They will never reclaim the IRA. People | :37:33. | :37:38. | |
may not like me saying this but some people respected what the IRA | :37:38. | :37:43. | |
did over many years, and that is not applicable today. There is no | :37:43. | :37:47. | |
support nor respect for what they are doing at this moment in time. I | :37:47. | :37:51. | |
would urge them to desist with bat and join the rest of us republicans | :37:51. | :38:01. | |
:38:01. | :38:02. | ||
trying to deliver. Do you agree that it will be a long haul? I am | :38:02. | :38:06. | |
not sure but it is clear that a small group of people can carry on | :38:06. | :38:10. | |
criminal activity for some time. What we have is an exceptionally | :38:10. | :38:15. | |
good police effort against them. We have strong cross-border | :38:15. | :38:19. | |
corporations, full and increasing public support in every part of | :38:19. | :38:23. | |
Northern Ireland, so the ingredients are there to | :38:23. | :38:26. | |
demonstrate what this community wants and to stand up against them | :38:26. | :38:31. | |
but nonetheless, this kind of criminal activity can continue. | :38:31. | :38:37. | |
party has been very strong about sectarianism, do you think that | :38:37. | :38:41. | |
contributes to an atmosphere to allow dissident activity? The best | :38:41. | :38:45. | |
thing we can do is to ensure the good work we do to get that is | :38:45. | :38:49. | |
carried on to great effect. We have good Corporation on the economy. It | :38:49. | :38:56. | |
has been less good in other areas. This is a message to us. It is sad | :38:56. | :38:58. | |
when we are coming together in condemnation rather than in working | :38:58. | :39:03. | |
even better together than we are already doing. Do you believe that | :39:03. | :39:07. | |
the example set instalment can be seen to be an encouragement to | :39:07. | :39:11. | |
people who say it there is no settlement here? We are working | :39:11. | :39:17. | |
hard. Next week I will be the First Minister and Deputy First Minister | :39:17. | :39:23. | |
in China trying to attract jobs in Northern Ireland. Tourism is always | :39:23. | :39:29. | |
wrong. -- terrorism is always wrong. It is our job in government to show | :39:29. | :39:34. | |
a way forward. The that means genuine trust and genuine respect. | :39:34. | :39:38. | |
Do you feel that is there between the two beat power blogs | :39:38. | :39:46. | |
instalment? Many think it is not. - - but two biggest power blocks him | :39:46. | :39:51. | |
at Stormont? Many innocent people lost their lives. 29 prison | :39:51. | :39:55. | |
officers, those murders were equally wrong. Northern Ireland has | :39:55. | :40:00. | |
chosen a new way forward. It has elected politicians to take them | :40:00. | :40:05. | |
forward. We will work hard on the economy and to deliver a genuine | :40:05. | :40:11. | |
link. The First Minister is working very hard on a genuinely a should | :40:11. | :40:16. | |
future together. That is the only way forward. We can still have the | :40:16. | :40:19. | |
Sinn Fein chairman telling Peter Robinson it is time he got with the | :40:19. | :40:25. | |
programme. We are doing a lot of good work, clearly. But we are not | :40:25. | :40:29. | |
doing enough clearly. The parties are working together, yes, and | :40:30. | :40:35. | |
doing as best we can but we need to do an awful lot more. My party and | :40:35. | :40:39. | |
other parties, we need to tackle disadvantage and alienated young | :40:39. | :40:44. | |
people and working-class people, with their in at the village every | :40:44. | :40:50. | |
yet... Let me finish my point. We need to deliver better on the | :40:50. | :40:55. | |
economy to the best of our beliefs. David needs to provide a humane | :40:55. | :40:59. | |
Prison Service which keeps people in custody, works with young people | :40:59. | :41:04. | |
to get them out of custody a better person and that will not reoffend | :41:04. | :41:08. | |
and burgle again and attacked a senior citizen again, and people | :41:08. | :41:15. | |
politically, in a political Oriented activism needs to be | :41:15. | :41:19. | |
treated in a humane way and properly. Anybody in custody for an | :41:19. | :41:25. | |
offence need to be treated in a humane way, it is simple. I agree. | :41:25. | :41:30. | |
The legacy of David Black, what we heard today is testimony to his | :41:30. | :41:34. |