Dissidents and the Drugs War Spotlight


Dissidents and the Drugs War

Stephen Dempster investigates the murder of Real IRA leader Alan Ryan and the consequences unfolding on both sides of the border.


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Transcript


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Dissident republicans are killing people they claim are drug dealers,

:00:06.:00:12.

so what has that got to do with their war? You struggle to find the

:00:12.:00:16.

actual struggle in what they are doing. And what happens when the

:00:16.:00:22.

drug dealer hits back? If you shoot one drug dealer, 10 others pop up.

:00:22.:00:28.

These things escalators go beyond control. These organised gangs are

:00:28.:00:38.
:00:38.:00:59.

armed to the teeth and they are An afternoon last month in north

:00:59.:01:07.

Dublin. The Real IRA leader Alan Ryan is openly strolling with

:01:07.:01:17.
:01:17.:01:28.

friends in the area he has built His murder is an astonishing

:01:28.:01:38.

challenge to the Real IRA by Dublin's drug gangs. And they had

:01:38.:01:43.

dared to kill the most senior Real IRA figure in the city. While there

:01:43.:01:46.

may be a perception in Northern Ireland that organised crime gangs

:01:46.:01:51.

would never take on members he of the IRA, that does not exist south

:01:51.:01:55.

of the border. A lot of the criminal groups are manned by young

:01:55.:02:00.

men who live chaotic lives, are very well armed, and would think

:02:00.:02:07.

nothing of going off and murdering more republicans if they have do.

:02:07.:02:10.

Drug dealers control the city, not the public call the police, and

:02:10.:02:14.

they think they are in pitched well and they have taken out the biggest

:02:14.:02:20.

achieve. -- that they are Alan Ryan was allegedly arming and

:02:20.:02:24.

killing drug dealers in Northern Ireland. His murder has been viewed

:02:24.:02:28.

by the Real IRA as an act of war. The dissident groups initial

:02:28.:02:32.

response was a Major show of strength at the funeral, which

:02:32.:02:36.

shocked the Republic establishment. Were new have a 1,000 people

:02:36.:02:41.

marching through a suburb in north Dublin led by an IRA colour party,

:02:41.:02:44.

that took the government by surprise, that is not something

:02:44.:02:50.

that is seen. You might have 50 dissidents in the country, but I

:02:50.:02:55.

think that page truth to that life. There is a more serious problem

:02:55.:02:59.

developing south of the border than anyone would like to admit or had

:02:59.:03:06.

realised. They weren't all republicans, they weren't all

:03:06.:03:09.

dissidence, but the vast majority were there because they saw what he

:03:09.:03:15.

was doing in relation to the drugs issue. The dissidents have tried to

:03:15.:03:19.

get national support by a killing alleged drug dealers. Last week

:03:19.:03:25.

they also blamed for murdering a small-time dealer Danny McCain in

:03:25.:03:29.

north Belfast. People in the street say they heard about half a dozen

:03:29.:03:32.

shops and a car speeding off. They are building on a strategy first

:03:32.:03:39.

used by the Provisional IRA nearly 20 years ago. What you see the

:03:39.:03:44.

dissidents do is Borough pages from the Book of the IRA. That is

:03:44.:03:48.

sending messages from criminals and the community, but also sending a

:03:48.:03:51.

message but they are here to protect you. But with the murder of

:03:51.:03:55.

Alan Ryan, the dissidents face something that the Provisional IRA

:03:55.:03:59.

didn't, dealers to fight back. So have the Real IRA miscalculated in

:03:59.:04:04.

taking on the drug gangs? In trying to use this issue to build support

:04:04.:04:08.

are they getting sucked into a battle that can never be one?

:04:08.:04:13.

Tonight on Spotlight we assess the deadly confrontation and we ask

:04:13.:04:18.

what is happening within dissident republicanism north and south?

:04:18.:04:22.

gloves are off. There are no boundaries, no limits and the Real

:04:22.:04:27.

IRA with the death of Alan Ryan realise this will be a serious

:04:27.:04:35.

battle and whoever blinks first will be gone. So why and how did

:04:35.:04:39.

the Real IRA get themselves so wrapped up in the volatile Dublin

:04:39.:04:44.

drugs scene? Surprisingly, part of the story can be traced back here,

:04:44.:04:50.

a sleepy corner of County Down. For decades, Dublin has wrestled with a

:04:50.:04:53.

growing and exceptionally violent criminal underworld. One that has

:04:53.:05:01.

produced a series of crime bosses, men like David Lindsay. Nicknamed

:05:01.:05:05.

Baby face by the tabloid press, he and an associate disappeared in

:05:05.:05:13.

July 2008. 10 months later, they go unexpectedly arrived at a bungalow,

:05:13.:05:17.

informing the unsuspected owners that the properties had to be

:05:17.:05:21.

searched. The house had been rented out, and underneath a floor inside,

:05:21.:05:26.

police found traces of blood and DNA belonging to David Lindsay and

:05:26.:05:30.

his friend. David Lindsay and his associate had disappeared off the

:05:30.:05:33.

streets of the republic. But the belief is that they died violently,

:05:33.:05:39.

here, in a remote part of Northern Ireland. Their bodies have never

:05:39.:05:46.

been found. To this day, the PSNI refused to discuss the case. If you

:05:46.:05:54.

think the Dublin drug war stops at the border, think again. There is

:05:54.:05:59.

no limits today in the savagery and lends these people will go, which

:05:59.:06:04.

has reached depths of depravity that we had not even imagined.

:06:04.:06:10.

Lindsay is believed to have been murdered by this man, Michael Kelly,

:06:10.:06:17.

also known as the Panda. The killing helped make Killick --

:06:17.:06:21.

Kelly a Major figure in the Dublin underworld. But he was murdered as

:06:21.:06:28.

well, allegedly by a Real IRA gang led by Alan Ryan. The killing was

:06:28.:06:32.

the dissident statement of intent, that they would now be controlling

:06:32.:06:40.

the crime scene in the city. Crime Correspondent Alan Sherry has

:06:40.:06:45.

brought me to the streets were Alan Ryan's gang was based, close to

:06:45.:06:49.

where they reportedly killed Kelly. How did that take Alan Ryan to

:06:49.:06:54.

another level? That marked him out as the main player on the scene in

:06:54.:06:57.

that gangland. There was no doubt that these people were not to be

:06:57.:07:02.

messed with. In the Dublin crime scene, extreme violence appears to

:07:02.:07:08.

pay. Gangland killings on the rise. Gerry O'Carroll investigated over

:07:08.:07:14.

80 murders. He was the inspiration for the character in this movie

:07:14.:07:20.

about Dublin's original crime boss. He was known as the general. A

:07:21.:07:24.

retired detective thinks the film romanticised his relationship with

:07:24.:07:29.

Cahill, but he considers it a classic. They think I know your

:07:29.:07:37.

wiles and ways, but it can only end one way, Martin, keep on like this.

:07:37.:07:42.

Before he was murdered by the Provisional IRA, K Hill predicted

:07:42.:07:47.

this new generation of extremely violent gangs -- Cahill. He said in

:07:47.:07:54.

his inimitable Dublin accent, if you think I'm bad, wait and see

:07:54.:07:59.

what's coming behind me. And his words have become chillingly

:07:59.:08:05.

fulfilled, because the modern breed of gangsters that run the drugs

:08:05.:08:12.

scene in this country are literally beyond comparison. These are

:08:12.:08:17.

psychopaths, often on cocaine, up to the eyeballs, believing

:08:17.:08:24.

themselves to be invincible. They have displayed a viciousness and

:08:24.:08:31.

ruthlessness and a savagery that is unparalleled, and makes other old

:08:31.:08:35.

time gangsters look like Sunday- school boys. The brutal gang

:08:35.:08:41.

warfare has taken innocent lives. Apprentice plumber Anthony Campbell

:08:41.:08:44.

was working in a house that, unknown to him, was occupied by a

:08:44.:08:50.

Major drug dealer. He was fixing a radiator when two gunmen walked in.

:08:50.:08:55.

They obviously went in with faces on, and because Anthony would have

:08:55.:09:00.

been able to identify them, he just was shot. He was shot through the

:09:00.:09:05.

hand he raised in self-defence. was 20, not even a man. Still

:09:05.:09:10.

finding himself. Out doing an honest day's living. Alan Ryan

:09:10.:09:16.

would impose himself on this chaotic drugs war. He grew up on

:09:16.:09:19.

Dublin's north side, and from a younger age was schooled in

:09:19.:09:23.

militant republicanism. As a teenager around the time of the

:09:23.:09:28.

Good Friday Agreement, he joined the Real IRA. He first came to

:09:28.:09:34.

public attention in 1999. He was one of six men arrested at a Real

:09:34.:09:39.

IRA underground training camp in County Meath. He was jailed for

:09:39.:09:48.

four years also up he had been in jail in Port Laoise, and he'd

:09:48.:09:51.

obviously become staunchly republican in jail, if not

:09:51.:09:56.

beforehand. The when he came out he got involved in running doors on

:09:56.:10:03.

the pubs and bit by bit they were taking on small-scale drug dealers.

:10:03.:10:07.

As well as starting to flex his muscles in Dublin, Ryan also became

:10:07.:10:12.

an important figure in the Real IRA as a whole. It would be fair to say,

:10:12.:10:19.

as far as we know, who -- she was a Major figure in the Real IRA. This

:10:19.:10:23.

was a Major figure engaged in activities that were contrary to

:10:23.:10:27.

the well-being of most people on this island that were intent on

:10:27.:10:32.

bringing us back to the bad old days. According to journalist,

:10:32.:10:36.

Ryan's Dublin unit acted as a fundraiser and supplier for fellow

:10:36.:10:41.

dissidents in the north. Dating back to the Provisional IRA, Dublin

:10:41.:10:45.

republicans would provide logistical support to IRA units

:10:45.:10:48.

north of the border, and Alan Ryan would have provided something

:10:48.:10:54.

similar. What they do is generate money, provide stolen cars and

:10:54.:10:58.

provide guns whenever they can. They need the money for the

:10:58.:11:01.

organisation. Dublin seems to be, from what they can tell, is where

:11:01.:11:05.

the main and out of money is coming from for the organisation, so it

:11:05.:11:08.

seems that Alan was given a licence to do what he needed to do to raise

:11:08.:11:12.

the money. If you are sending up the cash, you need to tackle the

:11:12.:11:17.

drugs gangs, you have our backing. Much of the money Alan Ryan raised

:11:17.:11:21.

went overboard into Northern Ireland to the Real IRA's most

:11:21.:11:26.

significant stronghold. We have come to Londonderry to follow that

:11:26.:11:32.

money trail. Spotlight has learned that included Ryan fronting an

:11:32.:11:41.

operation smuggling cigarettes But his frequent visits to the city

:11:41.:11:43.

were about more than this. Because Derry is where he would meet up

:11:43.:11:48.

with hardline republican associates. Ryan's friends claim he was a

:11:48.:11:51.

militant republican, but not involved in organised crime.

:11:51.:12:01.
:12:01.:12:06.

That prominent spokesman for the 32 County sovereignty Movement has one

:12:06.:12:13.

The Alan Ryan I knew was a genuine, committed Republican, very kind and

:12:14.:12:16.

very generous person. He was a socialist and cared about his

:12:16.:12:20.

community and Alan had a social conscience. That's right, yes, Alan

:12:20.:12:22.

a member of the 32 County Sovereignty Movement, he would have

:12:22.:12:25.

attended meetings, Sovereignty meetings, he would have been a

:12:25.:12:30.

familiar face on protests, pickets and similar activities. You are

:12:30.:12:34.

saying you knew him as a political person, the person that the media

:12:34.:12:37.

has talked about is someone that they would say was a crime boss.

:12:37.:12:44.

Definitely not, no. That couldn't be further from the truth. He was

:12:44.:12:47.

the leader eventually of the real IRA in Dublin, so he wasn't a choir

:12:48.:12:56.

boy. There is a difference between not being a choir boy and being a

:12:56.:13:02.

crime boss. Alan wasn't a criminal, Alan Moss and a gangster. Allen may

:13:02.:13:07.

have been portrayed as such by certain tabloid newspapers. The

:13:07.:13:11.

reality is that there is not one shred of evidence to support these

:13:11.:13:15.

accusations. There was no doubt in my mind that these were accusations

:13:15.:13:19.

that were being fed to sections of the media by the Free State

:13:19.:13:26.

Establishment. It was in Derry that the Real IRA's campaign against

:13:26.:13:29.

drugs first came to prominence. It was here that we learned the

:13:29.:13:32.

dissident groups relationship with the drugs scene may be more complex

:13:32.:13:38.

than it first appears. A short drive outside the city. What

:13:38.:13:42.

happened at this location became a major embarrassment for the Real

:13:42.:13:49.

IRA. From the outside this House looks like any other, but inside

:13:49.:13:53.

the police found a cannabis factory with an estimated street value of

:13:54.:13:58.

half a million euro. In January 2010 the house have been filled

:13:58.:14:02.

with quiet -- with cannabis plants and going equipment. The difficult

:14:02.:14:06.

for the Real IRA was that this house was owned by one of the most

:14:06.:14:11.

senior members. The dissidents now had a drugs problem. The house

:14:11.:14:15.

belonged to this man, Seamus McGreevy, one of the Real IRA's

:14:16.:14:20.

most senior figures. After the discovery, Seamus McGreevy was

:14:20.:14:25.

found dead, believed to have killed himself. It was now imperative for

:14:25.:14:29.

the dissident group that they distance themselves from the Drug

:14:29.:14:33.

House and the implication they may have been involved. They did so in

:14:33.:14:39.

the most brutal fashion. The house was being looked after by Kieran

:14:39.:14:44.

Doherty, an ex Real IRA member from Derry. On a February night in 2010,

:14:44.:14:52.

he was found shot dead outside the city. Q and uncle, Vincent Coyle,

:14:52.:14:57.

has brought me to the place where his nephew was killed. Kieran was

:14:57.:15:02.

once a close friend of Alan Ryan. But it's the family's belief that

:15:02.:15:07.

the murder involve the Dublin Real IRA, setting out an air crusade

:15:07.:15:12.

against drugs. This is such a beautiful quiet spot, Vincent, yet

:15:12.:15:18.

something terrible happened here. This is one of the most picturesque

:15:18.:15:26.

places in the city. What actually happened to Kieran that night? On

:15:26.:15:32.

the night that he left the house. He left to meet friends that he

:15:32.:15:36.

travelled from the Republic to meet them. It's a belief that Kieran was

:15:36.:15:39.

brought to the spot naked. The police believe that there was no

:15:39.:15:45.

struggle on the night. They believe that he knew the people he was with.

:15:45.:15:50.

Q&A be believed he would be kneecapped. Instead, they kept him

:15:50.:15:54.

going to the last minutes and shot him twice to their head. When he

:15:54.:15:59.

lay on the ground, once more to the heart. His like this body lay on

:15:59.:16:07.

the ground while his blood ran down this hill. Why is it that you're

:16:07.:16:11.

connecting Alan Ryan's debt to Kieran step? It's the belief of the

:16:11.:16:15.

family that Alan Ryan would have known about Kieran's debt and would

:16:15.:16:18.

have known the background to his death. The fact that he was a

:16:18.:16:24.

member of the Real IRA, that Kieran was an ex-member and its that many

:16:24.:16:29.

years in prison with Alan Ryan. He would have had to know the

:16:29.:16:34.

circumstances under which Kieran died. Last week, the police

:16:34.:16:38.

detective investigating Kieran's murder revealed he had tried but

:16:38.:16:42.

failed to extradite someone from what he referred to as another

:16:42.:16:47.

jurisdiction. Spotlight has learnt that this man was in fact the

:16:47.:16:51.

senior Real IRA member in Dublin, and close associate of Alan Ryan.

:16:51.:16:55.

The Real IRA have officially said that Kieran Dougherty was murdered

:16:55.:17:00.

for involvement in drugs. But the Dougherty family has always

:17:00.:17:03.

rejected this, amid suggestions Kieran was made the scapegoat for

:17:03.:17:08.

the Donegal drugs house. The link between two Real IRA figures and a

:17:08.:17:12.

drugs factory was deeply suspicious. It led to speculation the

:17:12.:17:16.

organisation was more closely involved in the drugs trade than it

:17:16.:17:21.

cared to admit. But they insist it does not deal in drugs. A I think

:17:21.:17:25.

the death of Kieran Dougherty was very tragic, particularly for his

:17:25.:17:30.

family. It seems to be that drugs again are at the centre of this and

:17:30.:17:36.

the young man lost his life I feel it is a very tragic situation. It

:17:36.:17:43.

would say that the republican stance is consistent against drugs.

:17:43.:17:49.

Would you agreed with killing drug dealers? Well, how to deal with

:17:49.:17:53.

drug dealers? Drug dealers aren't the type of people who you can sit

:17:53.:17:58.

down and written with. Q and Dougherty's murder brought the Real

:17:58.:18:05.

IRA very publicly into line with another group in Derry, Republican

:18:05.:18:10.

Action Against Drugs, set up solely to target dealers. Spotlight

:18:10.:18:14.

witnessed the beginnings of this merger in June. During a PSNI

:18:14.:18:21.

search by officers investigating republicans against -- Republican

:18:21.:18:27.

Action Against drugs, dissident republicans turned out in support,

:18:27.:18:31.

including Gary Donnelly of the 32 County Sovereignty Movement. Then

:18:31.:18:41.
:18:41.:18:45.

this happened. BOMB GHOST, all. Around the corner, at PSNI vehicle

:18:45.:18:50.

was hit by a blast bomb. This was the first moment to its

:18:50.:18:55.

organisation first to a De Wet Barry -- in their weaponry on

:18:56.:19:01.

police officers. It was also the first signal they were a line with

:19:01.:19:05.

the Real IRA. In July, a statement issued announcing a new

:19:05.:19:12.

organisation, calling themselves the IRA. The Real IRA was very keen

:19:12.:19:16.

to lose their own name and identity. They are publicly associated with

:19:16.:19:22.

the murder of 29 people and unborn twins at home in 1988. They never

:19:22.:19:26.

recovered after that. So there were quite keen on amalgamating with

:19:26.:19:33.

another gripping. It's an old thread dressed up and a new name.

:19:33.:19:36.

You have a coalition, so it is there any mystery is there any

:19:36.:19:39.

secret about what this new coalition and balls? No, there's

:19:40.:19:44.

not. These people, to borrow a phrase that was used many years ago,

:19:44.:19:51.

these people are the same people in different balaclavas. Despite did

:19:51.:19:54.

edition of rap, people still continue to refer to the gripping

:19:54.:19:57.

as the Real IRA. But the organisation has also been

:19:57.:20:01.

strengthened further by the addition of independent dissidents,

:20:01.:20:04.

including those believed to have murdered Constable Ronan Kerr last

:20:04.:20:10.

year in a coma. The so republican grouping had a lot of technical

:20:10.:20:14.

expertise in terms of producing bombs and avoiding detection from

:20:14.:20:19.

the security services. That is what makes a very dangerous.

:20:19.:20:22.

operation there was exposed in Dublin demonstrated just how

:20:22.:20:28.

dangerous and ambitious the new group can be. Former Garda

:20:28.:20:34.

inspector Gerry O'Carroll has from the to the place where Gardai

:20:34.:20:37.

uncovered a wheels -- a Real IRA surveillance plot designed to

:20:37.:20:42.

collect intelligence and police officers. A my right here is guard

:20:42.:20:48.

headquarters, were specialised police units are based. It was on a

:20:48.:20:54.

building but the Real IRA surveillance team were based here

:20:54.:21:00.

at Blaha Court Hotel. Last month, Gardai discovered dissidents had

:21:00.:21:04.

set up recording and photographic equipment there without the hotel's

:21:04.:21:09.

knowledge and were spying on Dublin's top police teams.

:21:09.:21:13.

close quite extraordinary. But these gangsters would have the

:21:13.:21:20.

audacity to coming here to a building opposite Garda

:21:20.:21:26.

headquarters, a building that is used by many officers for

:21:26.:21:33.

socialising. It has serious, serious and sinister implications

:21:34.:21:37.

for the safety and security of the state and for the safety and

:21:37.:21:42.

security of the personnel in this building. What does it say about

:21:42.:21:47.

the intent and capabilities of the dissidents? It shows what they're

:21:47.:21:51.

capable of doing. But these people are as serious, serious threat now

:21:51.:21:58.

under threat is growing. The menace of the Real IRA grows by the day.

:21:58.:22:03.

It is a keeper Billy Kirby been directed more towards a drugs war

:22:03.:22:09.

than a so-called armed struggle in Northern Ireland? And, if so, why?

:22:09.:22:13.

We has also done -- we have spoken the dissident republicans who

:22:13.:22:17.

recognise the right across roads. At a time when they are we

:22:17.:22:21.

organising, they are in danger of getting sucked into a prolonged its

:22:21.:22:26.

drug war. So why have the Real IRA got themselves embroiled in a war

:22:26.:22:30.

that drug dealers in Dublin? Mon me. The traditional ways of raising

:22:30.:22:34.

money for the paramilitaries with bank robberies, post-office

:22:34.:22:42.

robberies, kidnappings, although the last number of years, the tiger

:22:42.:22:46.

kidnappings were a serious problem. That's no longer a cash cow. That's

:22:46.:22:53.

no longer feasible. Are people in the Gardai here are more effective.

:22:53.:23:01.

So, the path of least resistance has been drug money. They know that

:23:01.:23:06.

the drug dealers and the drug kingpins in this city are making

:23:06.:23:12.

vast, vast, vast amounts of money. The know that he could take get a

:23:12.:23:15.

percentage of it, it'll be enough to finance the organisation, to

:23:15.:23:21.

supply them that guns, ammunition and logistics. So a duty sources

:23:21.:23:26.

also claimed that the Real IRA are taxing drug-dealers. Publicly

:23:26.:23:30.

opposed to drugs, but privately raising funds by pocketing drugs

:23:30.:23:37.

profits. I am not going to travel into areas and intelligence. But

:23:37.:23:41.

certainly an number of the subversive organisations that

:23:41.:23:44.

travel under particular banners, there was no doubt that on

:23:44.:23:47.

occasions they make a pretence of being opposed to the use of drugs

:23:47.:23:51.

and to the drug gangs, while simultaneously trying to raise

:23:51.:23:57.

funding derived from the illegal sale of drugs. The thing that

:23:57.:24:03.

dissident world, you have people who may be involved in a struggle,

:24:03.:24:07.

as they describe it. It is about Brits out and uniting Ireland. But

:24:07.:24:11.

you have other people in that will to are involved in crime and their

:24:11.:24:13.

participation in those organisations is a cover for what

:24:14.:24:19.

they really up to. So, they may target drug dealers, shoot them,

:24:19.:24:23.

but within a world there are people who are drug dealers and to also

:24:23.:24:26.

involved in drugs crime. This against denied this, but whatever

:24:26.:24:31.

the reason for the drugs battle, it is getting more intense. And Dublin

:24:31.:24:35.

is braced for the reprisals that the Real IRA have promised in

:24:36.:24:41.

response Alan Ryan's killing. this could drag on for years. Kind

:24:41.:24:45.

of what has happened now, I think the Real IRA are certainly going to

:24:45.:24:49.

have to retaliate to show that they have the strength to take them on

:24:49.:24:52.

and whether that means taking on the people who did it, which am

:24:52.:24:56.

sure they will, but there will probably go after regular drug

:24:56.:25:01.

dealers and say any drug dealers are a Jew -- are a legitimate

:25:01.:25:06.

target night because they have taken on the Real IRA and if anyone

:25:06.:25:11.

operating in North Dublin in drugs I would be worried. The question is,

:25:11.:25:15.

can the Real IRA gain more support by confronting the dealers, or have

:25:15.:25:19.

they got right into drugs were they can win? I believe the Real IRA had

:25:19.:25:23.

it not more than they can chew. They have totally underestimated

:25:23.:25:27.

the will and the actual firepower and the strength of the double that

:25:27.:25:33.

-- of the Dublin organised crime has now reached in the city. These

:25:33.:25:38.

organised gangs are absolutely armed to the teeth and they are

:25:38.:25:42.

ferocious in their reprisals. can should want to a dealer and you

:25:42.:25:46.

get 10 others pop up. It makes no impact whatsoever. Do what it does

:25:46.:25:50.

course is that the associate to the person that you have just murdered

:25:50.:25:55.

will suddenly start targeting you. History has shown in the past 10

:25:55.:25:58.

years out of the border then went criminal gangs were feuding with

:25:58.:26:02.

anyone, it actually doesn't stop. These things escalate a double

:26:03.:26:07.

control. I am not sure that the dissident paramilitaries, for all

:26:07.:26:10.

their bluster, want to get into that sort of long running feud with

:26:10.:26:15.

criminal groups in Dublin, because they are as well on this them.

:26:15.:26:19.

even so, the dissident republican war on drugs now seems to be

:26:19.:26:24.

spreading. When gunmen shot Danny McKie last Thursday night on the

:26:24.:26:26.

outskirts of North Belfast, dissident republicans were linked

:26:26.:26:33.

to the murder. Danny McKay was a low-level drug dealer, and if you

:26:33.:26:37.

have but low-level figure being taken out in what has been

:26:37.:26:39.

described as a high-level assassination. The people but the

:26:39.:26:44.

police are looking at as possibly being involved and that shooting,

:26:44.:26:47.

spanned both criminal and the dissident world. And that is the

:26:48.:26:52.

coup -- that is that confusion, that criss-crossing of lines, and

:26:52.:26:57.

that collusion in that world in which these people move.

:26:57.:27:00.

dissident groups are populated by both militant republicans and

:27:00.:27:04.

organised criminals. Bill which should be strands is more likely to

:27:04.:27:08.

take control of the future direction of an organisation like

:27:08.:27:15.

the Real IRA? It is impossible to forecast what is likely to happen.

:27:16.:27:21.

I think this combined dissident IRA organisation could go one of two

:27:21.:27:31.
:27:31.:27:31.

ways. It could try and replicate a Provisional IRA tight organisation,

:27:31.:27:40.

which is what they want. There is as much or unequal the chance that

:27:41.:27:46.

you going to see that grouping and the other groups mutating into a

:27:46.:27:49.

kind of large-scale criminal operation. I think there were

:27:49.:27:53.

people of both types within that organisation now and it is very

:27:53.:27:59.

difficult to see who will come to the fore. You struggle to find the

:27:59.:28:03.

armed struggle in what they're doing. You struggle to find their

:28:03.:28:07.

confrontation with the British state. Yes, they have targeted

:28:07.:28:15.

police officers and, yes, but is a real threat. But those looking at

:28:15.:28:19.

them can see the crossroads. There are people who are there for what

:28:19.:28:22.

they were term as it calls and there are people there for self-

:28:22.:28:27.

interest. The question that people ask about all of these things is

:28:27.:28:35.

when a lookalike? When does that friction become an internal feud

:28:35.:28:39.

between does to her about fighting a war and those who are interested

:28:40.:28:43.

in crime? The sudden tragic reality is that there must be some

:28:43.:28:49.

possibility that some individual in the future of will lose their lives

:28:49.:28:52.

in similar events. I would hope that is not the case. There was

:28:52.:28:56.

little point in appealing to these people to desist from this type of

:28:56.:29:00.

conduct because, from bitter experience on the silent, we know

:29:00.:29:10.
:29:10.:29:10.

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