Browse content similar to 05/02/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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This programme contains scenes of Good evening. Unionists and | :00:25. | :00:29. | |
loyalists can relax - the union is safe and supported by a lot of | :00:29. | :00:33. | |
Catholics. Those are the indications thrown up by a special | :00:33. | :00:35. | |
spotlight poll which asked people how they would vote in the | :00:35. | :00:39. | |
referendum. The last few weeks have been among the most turbulent odd | :00:39. | :00:42. | |
that our recent history with protests about the Union flag | :00:42. | :00:46. | |
bringing violence and world attention back to our streets. | :00:46. | :00:48. | |
Loyalists believe their identity and culture are under attack and | :00:48. | :00:53. | |
that the other side is winning. But our poll shows most Unionists think | :00:53. | :00:58. | |
the protest should stop. We will discuss the findings in detail with | :00:58. | :01:03. | |
our political editor Mark Devenport and political parties. What began | :01:03. | :01:06. | |
with the Council vote to limit the flying over the Union flag over | :01:06. | :01:11. | |
Belfast City Hall from 365 to just 18 designated days has spiralled | :01:11. | :01:14. | |
into disorder that has brought city centre businesses to their knees. | :01:14. | :01:18. | |
Steven Dempster assesses the fall- out. | :01:18. | :01:24. | |
This is the image Belfast's Lord Mayor is keen to show off. A | :01:24. | :01:28. | |
celebration of Chinese New Year, sending out the message that | :01:28. | :01:33. | |
Belfast is a diversity, will bring -- welcoming all its people. But it | :01:33. | :01:38. | |
weeks ago, there was a very different mood at City Hall. In | :01:38. | :01:43. | |
December they came to proclaim their loyalty to their flag. But | :01:43. | :01:51. | |
expressions of identity turned nasty. Trouble began after a vote | :01:51. | :01:55. | |
at Belfast City Council to limit the flying of the Union flag over | :01:55. | :02:00. | |
City Hall to 18 days. This council should adopt the practice of flying | :02:00. | :02:08. | |
the Union flag, designated days. The outpouring of anger has lasted | :02:09. | :02:12. | |
two months. Across Northern Ireland, loyalists occupied the streets with | :02:12. | :02:17. | |
daily protests and sporadic rioting. The bill for policing and lost | :02:17. | :02:22. | |
business is over �20 million. Businesses in the City say they | :02:22. | :02:28. | |
have been hit very hard. While Belfast is trying to recover, this | :02:28. | :02:33. | |
restaurant in the Cathedral Quarter says trade is still down around 50%. | :02:33. | :02:37. | |
A during the week it is really quiet. People are going home. We | :02:37. | :02:44. | |
are not getting a reputable teatime early bird trade. Larry Mawhinney | :02:45. | :02:49. | |
says he is on the brink of calling in the bank. You can only sustain | :02:49. | :02:53. | |
yourself for so long. You still have your brakes and rent to pay, | :02:53. | :03:02. | |
your wages... -- York rates and rent to pay. At some point, it will | :03:02. | :03:09. | |
be breaking point. It is difficult to see a way out. While the | :03:09. | :03:13. | |
protests have been scaled down and the tactics changed, the anger over | :03:13. | :03:21. | |
flags has not gone away. In the heart of east Belfast, the Office | :03:21. | :03:28. | |
of Alliance MP Naomi Long is still the focus for most of that rage. | :03:28. | :03:32. | |
has been quite volatile. Staff have been subjected to verbal abuse by | :03:32. | :03:37. | |
some of the protesters. There have been attempts to film and | :03:37. | :03:41. | |
photograph staff. We have had members of staff followed to their | :03:41. | :03:45. | |
cars and people shouting at them. It has been an unpleasant and quite | :03:45. | :03:51. | |
difficult experience. Alliance voted with Sinn Fein and the SDLP | :03:51. | :03:58. | |
to reduce the number of days the Union flag flies over City all. And | :03:58. | :04:01. | |
or offers was burned out in Carrickfergus. Councillors' homes | :04:01. | :04:06. | |
were attacked and party members threatened. In all, Naomi Long has | :04:06. | :04:13. | |
received three death threats. at home in bed. The police came to | :04:13. | :04:17. | |
our front door and they told me that they had received a call to | :04:17. | :04:21. | |
say that if I returned to my constituency office, or if I | :04:21. | :04:27. | |
remained at my home, I would be shot. So why exactly did all this | :04:27. | :04:31. | |
trouble begin? It is a long-term republican objective to remove | :04:31. | :04:34. | |
British plants and emblems everywhere and Sinn Fein and the | :04:34. | :04:39. | |
SDLP called for the Union flag to be taken down permanently from City | :04:39. | :04:44. | |
Hall. When or refused to back this plan and opted for a compromise of | :04:44. | :04:49. | |
designated days, Unionists were squaring up for a fight. It was on | :04:49. | :04:55. | |
Peter Robinson's mind at his party's conference last November. | :04:55. | :04:59. | |
Just in case there is anybody from the Alliance party in Belfast here, | :04:59. | :05:06. | |
can we see those flags? Unionist councillors mounted a leaflet | :05:06. | :05:10. | |
campaign urging people to complain to the Alliance Party offices in | :05:10. | :05:15. | |
east Belfast and to Naomi Long. She claims the leaflet was inflammatory | :05:15. | :05:22. | |
and made her a target for loyalist anger. The DUP denies this. Naomi | :05:22. | :05:25. | |
Long and the Alliance Party are trying to distract attention away | :05:25. | :05:28. | |
from their culpability. The Alliance Party have brought about | :05:28. | :05:33. | |
this situation along with the SDLP and Sinn Fein. Know a land of | :05:33. | :05:38. | |
wriggling will get them off the hook. -- no amount. This | :05:38. | :05:41. | |
journalists are just there was a bigger political game behind the | :05:41. | :05:46. | |
leaflet. The UUP and the DUP decided when the flag that was | :05:46. | :05:50. | |
coming and bass or they could not win it how they could play this. | :05:50. | :05:56. | |
The way they played it was to blame it Alliance for the defeat that | :05:56. | :06:02. | |
they were about to suffer. But why did the leaflet focus on Naomi Long | :06:02. | :06:07. | |
and east Belfast in particular? The answer may lie in the fact that in | :06:07. | :06:12. | |
2010, she took the Westminster seat from Peter Robinson. They were also | :06:12. | :06:16. | |
mindful of the growth of Alliance in Belfast so they distributed a | :06:16. | :06:23. | |
leaflet saying that this party is not part of the Union and they are | :06:23. | :06:27. | |
against the Union flag and that was a way of connecting with working- | :06:27. | :06:32. | |
class freedom. Naomi Long is not a councillor and can see no other | :06:32. | :06:35. | |
reason why the leaflet drag her into the dispute. This was less | :06:35. | :06:39. | |
about the flag at City Hall and more about Westminster. I have not | :06:39. | :06:42. | |
really had a convincing denial or rebuttal of that from anyone who | :06:42. | :06:50. | |
was involved and a leaflet. -- Int the leaflet. It is about the flag | :06:50. | :06:54. | |
flying in the City Hall. It is entirely a matter for Naomi Long to | :06:54. | :06:58. | |
put forward her record at the next election like every other | :06:58. | :07:01. | |
politician and we needed to the people to decide who gets elected. | :07:01. | :07:05. | |
Loyalist who voted for Naomi Long next time have vowed to unseat her | :07:05. | :07:10. | |
in two years. Meanwhile, the police continued to protect her office 24 | :07:10. | :07:16. | |
hours a day. The MP is under personal and political pressure but | :07:16. | :07:22. | |
says she will not be deterred from doing her job. I do not see any of | :07:22. | :07:27. | |
the constituency as a no-go area. I grew up in it in east Belfast in a | :07:27. | :07:30. | |
loyalist working-class community and for me, it is not about no-go | :07:30. | :07:35. | |
areas. It is about how I go in those areas. It is about when I go | :07:35. | :07:41. | |
in those areas. Obviously I have to be thoughtful and mind. It has | :07:41. | :07:45. | |
greater difficulties that, there is no doubt. While we know the Union | :07:45. | :07:48. | |
flag will fly again tomorrow over the City Hall to mark the Queen's | :07:48. | :07:52. | |
accession, the flag row continues and with the marching season just | :07:52. | :07:57. | |
weeks away, nobody yet knows where this will end. | :07:57. | :08:02. | |
That is how we got to where we are today. We asked our interviewees | :08:02. | :08:08. | |
and respondent in this poll - 1046 of them - about the flag dispute. | :08:08. | :08:12. | |
Mark Devenport is with me to look at them and analyse them. Good | :08:12. | :08:18. | |
evening. Good evening. We asked our respondents which of these options | :08:18. | :08:22. | |
in relation to the Union flag at Belfast City Hall do you most | :08:22. | :08:30. | |
support? As you can see, we gave the option to our interviewees the | :08:30. | :08:34. | |
same kind of options that based city councillors before they came | :08:34. | :08:38. | |
to that decision in early December. You whipping by looking at the | :08:38. | :08:42. | |
response we got that Belfast City Council got it about right because | :08:42. | :08:46. | |
the most popular option was the 18 designated days compromise, | :08:46. | :08:51. | |
favoured by 44% of the people we talked to, compared to about 35% | :08:51. | :08:55. | |
favouring retaining the flag all year round. 10% were looking for | :08:55. | :09:00. | |
the flag never to fly. You may say what is the big deal if they pick | :09:01. | :09:04. | |
the most popular option? Why was there such a kickback on the | :09:04. | :09:10. | |
streets? It was not popular with everyone. We analysed what our | :09:10. | :09:16. | |
Unionist interviewees said and this is what we found. The flying of the | :09:16. | :09:19. | |
flag really polarises Unionists and nationalists because Unionists very | :09:19. | :09:24. | |
strongly were sticking to the 365 days a year option. Just less than | :09:24. | :09:29. | |
a quarter were opting instead for the designated days compromise | :09:29. | :09:34. | |
which Alliance and the nationalist councillors ended up voting for. | :09:34. | :09:39. | |
we might expect a mirror image of that but we do not get quite a | :09:39. | :09:43. | |
mirror image when we look at what nationalists think. Very little | :09:43. | :09:48. | |
support for retaining the flag all year round. Quite significant | :09:48. | :09:51. | |
support for the 18 designated days compromise. The interesting thing | :09:52. | :09:55. | |
was that the nationalist parties set about initially calling for the | :09:55. | :09:58. | |
flag to come down altogether, which is the practice in some other | :09:58. | :10:02. | |
councils that are not have a flag. Only a 5th of their supporters | :10:02. | :10:06. | |
actually opted for that. Nationalist voters appeared to | :10:06. | :10:10. | |
regard the designated days compromise as the way forward. | :10:10. | :10:16. | |
vote itself sparked protests that very evening, which lasted for a | :10:16. | :10:23. | |
couple of months. We asked when the flag protests began, to what extent | :10:23. | :10:27. | |
to go interviewees agree or disagree? There is significant | :10:27. | :10:30. | |
support for the right to protest and in the actual question that was | :10:30. | :10:34. | |
asked of the interviewees, it did talk about whether people were | :10:34. | :10:37. | |
right to protest. That is the only way I can explain the fact that | :10:37. | :10:41. | |
there is greater support for the protests taking place in their | :10:41. | :10:44. | |
early December than there was for keeping the flag all year round. | :10:44. | :10:51. | |
Some people may be did not favour keeping the flag but thought that | :10:51. | :10:54. | |
people had a right to protest out on the streets if they oppose the | :10:54. | :11:01. | |
policy. We are not talking about violence but just protests. Let's | :11:01. | :11:11. | |
:11:11. | :11:13. | ||
break that down. What tedious say? -- what did Unionists say? Strong | :11:13. | :11:17. | |
support given the fact that they favoured keeping the flag 365 days | :11:17. | :11:22. | |
in the first place. It is not as loyalists because they would be a | :11:22. | :11:27. | |
small section of this Unionist lot of interviewees. So that is right | :11:27. | :11:34. | |
across Unionists. 83% support in all the Unionist parties. They are | :11:34. | :11:39. | |
being asked at the end of January but about their views when it all | :11:39. | :11:43. | |
kicked off. They are saying they sympathise with it when it kicked | :11:43. | :11:48. | |
off in December but then there is a shift in opinion. The next question | :11:48. | :11:54. | |
- do you think the protests should now stop or continue? | :11:54. | :12:00. | |
interviews were carried out in late January. By this stage, a lot of | :12:00. | :12:04. | |
people had seen the violence that was barred by the protests and | :12:04. | :12:07. | |
there had been a call by Unionists in east Belfast backed by loyalist | :12:07. | :12:13. | |
paramilitaries for the violence to end. The majority of Unionists, 54%, | :12:13. | :12:16. | |
think that the protest should stop. But still a significant proportion | :12:16. | :12:20. | |
of Unionists, even at this late stage, think that the protest | :12:20. | :12:25. | |
should continue. I think it is food for thought for the Unionist | :12:25. | :12:33. | |
parties have called for this to end. Let's see how that have fits into | :12:33. | :12:37. | |
the overall population in our sample response. In terms of the | :12:38. | :12:41. | |
general populace, by the end of January you can take it that they | :12:41. | :12:44. | |
were pretty much that up with what had been happening over the cause | :12:44. | :12:47. | |
of those few weeks because you are adding nationalists and others into | :12:47. | :12:51. | |
the equation and you have a very strong majority. More than three- | :12:51. | :12:55. | |
quarters of those we talked to said it was time to call it a day as far | :12:55. | :12:58. | |
as the protests were concerned and the reasons they gave way of | :12:58. | :13:03. | |
violence, damage to business, traffic disruption and so on. | :13:03. | :13:06. | |
the results emerge in the course of the programme, we are keen to hear | :13:06. | :13:12. | |
what you think. You can textiles on 81771. You can phone and e-mail us | :13:12. | :13:16. | |
and put us on #SpotlightNI. Calls cost five pence per minute from | :13:16. | :13:20. | |
most landlines. Calls from mobiles may cost considerably more and | :13:20. | :13:25. | |
texts will be charged at your standard message rate. It is fair | :13:25. | :13:28. | |
to say that as long as Northern Ireland has more Protestants and | :13:28. | :13:31. | |
Catholics it will stay part of the UK but does the narrowing gap | :13:31. | :13:35. | |
between them in the latest census mean a united Ireland could be | :13:35. | :13:40. | |
coming into view? Sinn Fein thinks so and that is why they are | :13:40. | :13:48. | |
pressing for the border question to be put to the vote. | :13:48. | :13:53. | |
Sinn Fein launched their campaign for Border poll. Gerry Adams police | :13:53. | :14:03. | |
:14:03. | :14:04. | ||
people are increasingly embracing their national -- Irish identity. | :14:04. | :14:07. | |
the mood is shifting towards thoughts of a united Ireland? The | :14:07. | :14:13. | |
Good Friday agreement allows for a referendum. If Westminster believes | :14:13. | :14:17. | |
there may be a majority in Northern Ireland who want to end partition. | :14:17. | :14:24. | |
So far, the response to Mr Adams has been blunt. My feeling is that | :14:24. | :14:28. | |
the conditions which require a border poll are not present in | :14:28. | :14:38. | |
:14:38. | :14:49. | ||
Northern Ireland and we have no For Sinn Fein, however, this is | :14:49. | :14:52. | |
simply a delay en route to the longer-term target of a poll by | :14:52. | :14:55. | |
2020. Because while republicans never saw the Good Friday Agreement | :14:55. | :14:58. | |
as a final settlement. This is part of the British state temporarily or | :14:58. | :15:01. | |
permanently bore only conditionally for as long as a majority of the | :15:01. | :15:07. | |
people want that to be so. This was not from a shin. -- Sinn Fein point | :15:07. | :15:12. | |
of view, a settlement. It was an agreement on a journey, and the | :15:12. | :15:22. | |
core of it, it is a Road Map towards democracy and equality. | :15:22. | :15:25. | |
future direction of Northern Ireland, be it sticking with the | :15:25. | :15:28. | |
Union or move to Irish unity, has traditionally been predicted by a | :15:28. | :15:32. | |
sectarian headcount. It's been assumed that Protestants are all | :15:32. | :15:34. | |
unionists, Catholics are all nationalists, and as long as | :15:35. | :15:42. | |
Protestants are the majority, the Union will remain. That has er been | :15:42. | :15:44. | |
a pretty crude way of trying to work out what the current levels of | :15:44. | :15:47. | |
support are for a united Ireland, or for northern ireland remaining | :15:47. | :15:55. | |
within the UK. I think in recent years er there has been certainly | :15:55. | :15:57. | |
considerable evidence that there's also this emerging other category, | :15:57. | :16:02. | |
people who say that they're Northern Irish. A sign of this | :16:02. | :16:05. | |
change came in the recent Census figures which revealed 1 in 5 now | :16:05. | :16:08. | |
say they are primarily Northern Irish, rather than British or Irish. | :16:08. | :16:11. | |
It suggests they don't conform to type and their votes are up for | :16:11. | :16:14. | |
grabs and it has opened-up a new battleground between unionism and | :16:14. | :16:20. | |
nationalism. The phrase Northern Irish, I suppose, is, in some ways, | :16:20. | :16:26. | |
very ambiguous. And both sides sort of try to claim them as either for | :16:27. | :16:30. | |
a united Ireland or for the United Kingdom. In truth I think people | :16:30. | :16:37. | |
don't really know how those people would vote in a border poll. | :16:37. | :16:40. | |
this new landscape, Sinn Fein argue the Census indicates the pieces of | :16:40. | :16:45. | |
their plan are coming together. unionists are relaxed about calling | :16:45. | :16:50. | |
themselves Irish, albeit Northern Irish. The question is, can | :16:50. | :16:52. | |
republicans convince these people to share their goal of a united | :16:52. | :16:58. | |
Ireland? Sinn Fein has a huge challenge to persuade unionists | :16:58. | :17:01. | |
that their future is best in an all-Ireland context. I don't | :17:01. | :17:04. | |
minimise that for one second. But I think there are lots of indications | :17:04. | :17:13. | |
that people out there are at least up for those arguments. So are | :17:13. | :17:22. | |
unionists up for the debate? After Gerry Adams called for a poll, the | :17:22. | :17:25. | |
DUP surprisingly said they were considering it. I think the DUP | :17:25. | :17:35. | |
:17:35. | :17:40. | ||
floated this idea seemingly intentionally. Arlene Foster quite | :17:40. | :17:43. | |
deliberately said that the DUP could be persuaded to call Sinn | :17:43. | :17:47. | |
Fein's bluff on this but I think that there has been considerable | :17:47. | :17:49. | |
rowing back since then and there's certainly very little indication | :17:49. | :17:52. | |
that the DUP are serious about this. But with tensions already high over | :17:52. | :17:55. | |
the flag, there are those who would see the calling of a border poll as | :17:56. | :18:02. | |
likely to further destabilise unionism. It would really, I | :18:02. | :18:05. | |
suppose, send people back to the trenches in many ways and that | :18:05. | :18:08. | |
would be a huge decision to take, particularly at a time when Peter | :18:08. | :18:11. | |
Robinson has been making much of the fact that Northern Ireland's | :18:11. | :18:14. | |
position is settled, we're secure within the union. Publicly at least, | :18:14. | :18:18. | |
the DUP is bullish. Republicans asking for a border poll makes | :18:18. | :18:21. | |
turkeys voting for Christmas look like a carefully considered | :18:21. | :18:26. | |
strategy. But are the DUP right to make their own assumption, that | :18:26. | :18:29. | |
there is a significant block of Catholics, who don't vote unionist | :18:29. | :18:32. | |
in elections, but would actually back the Union? Richard Doherty is | :18:32. | :18:37. | |
a practising Catholic, from Londonderry, who is also pro-Union. | :18:37. | :18:43. | |
His father was a British soldier and he was in the RUC Reserve. | :18:43. | :18:46. | |
Being a Catholic never excluded me from being pro-Union. I think | :18:46. | :18:55. | |
there's a large number of people like that. I think a large number | :18:55. | :18:58. | |
of Catholics would say they feel they're better off socially and | :18:58. | :19:05. | |
economically within the union. are talking about British identity? | :19:05. | :19:11. | |
It is a British again today, what remains is still under seas. Pretty | :19:11. | :19:15. | |
she might be but he has never voted for a unionist Party. So does that | :19:15. | :19:20. | |
mean Gerry Adams could at least engage, on the idea of a united | :19:20. | :19:25. | |
Ireland? There is not anything Gerry Adams could say that would | :19:25. | :19:32. | |
convince me that a united Ireland would work, particularly with in a | :19:32. | :19:39. | |
position of power. A representative is this you? As the census showed, | :19:39. | :19:43. | |
the new Northern Ireland is embracing Malta poor and mixed | :19:43. | :19:46. | |
identities of people no longer designate themselves as either | :19:46. | :19:56. | |
:19:56. | :20:00. | ||
We come to the most interesting part of the opinion poll. We asked | :20:00. | :20:08. | |
This has been pored over by the politicians and the British and | :20:08. | :20:15. | |
Irish governments. And those surveys tell us : that the | :20:15. | :20:17. | |
Abdulaziz bin Nasser al Saud would vote if there was a referendum | :20:17. | :20:27. | |
:20:27. | :20:31. | ||
This is similar wording as was used in the 1973 border poll. The same | :20:31. | :20:37. | |
number there who would not vote. This is an opinion poll and not a | :20:37. | :20:41. | |
referendum, so there is that Cav the art, and there is a margin for | :20:41. | :20:47. | |
error in this exercise, but it is a pretty big lead. Gerry Adams talks | :20:47. | :20:51. | |
about the Good Friday Agreement being an agreement on the long | :20:51. | :20:54. | |
journey, will it will be a long journey of these figures are born | :20:54. | :21:02. | |
at it. We will look at the committed voters and look at that | :21:02. | :21:09. | |
throws up. As we will see as we move through the results, there are | :21:09. | :21:13. | |
more people on the Catholic side of the divide who are telling us in | :21:13. | :21:17. | |
any case that they will not vote rather than on the Protestant side, | :21:17. | :21:23. | |
and that is why, when you take out the non-voters, you get a hardening | :21:23. | :21:33. | |
:21:33. | :21:33. | ||
of that majority, almost 80%. the similar to other recent surveys. | :21:33. | :21:42. | |
73 opted to remain in the UK, over a united Ireland, so it is in line | :21:43. | :21:50. | |
with that. The big one, what did Catholics say in response to this | :21:50. | :21:57. | |
question? Stephen Dempster was talking to one or Catholic, and he | :21:57. | :22:02. | |
is not unique in holding that you Foster 38% of the cat books said | :22:02. | :22:06. | |
that there was an opinion poll tomorrow they would have -- boat to | :22:06. | :22:11. | |
remain part of the UK. Whilst that is not a majority, it is larger | :22:11. | :22:18. | |
than the proportion, 35%, who voted for a united Ireland. So that towns | :22:18. | :22:22. | |
some of the traditional assumptions on their head because it is a | :22:22. | :22:28. | |
larger section of the Catholic population voting for the status | :22:28. | :22:38. | |
:22:38. | :22:42. | ||
And a larger percentage there, 18%, saying that they would not a boat. | :22:42. | :22:48. | |
And we have these people who, in the senses, described themselves as | :22:48. | :22:55. | |
Northern Irish. We asked how they would boat. When the census come | :22:55. | :23:00. | |
out, I took calls from politicians who said they were talking about | :23:00. | :23:07. | |
being Irish. In answer to this question, we found a large | :23:07. | :23:14. | |
proportion voting to remain in the UK. Again, quite a strong | :23:14. | :23:19. | |
proportion in terms of not voting. This new category of the Northern | :23:19. | :23:24. | |
Irish, seemed to be comfortable with the Northern Ireland, but | :23:25. | :23:28. | |
comfortable to retain the constitutional status quo. Lots of | :23:28. | :23:33. | |
fascinating stuff there, thank you very much for your analysis. Don't | :23:33. | :23:42. | |
forget, you can contact us by text, you can Collis or you can use | :23:42. | :23:51. | |
Twitter. We have a collection of political representatives gather. | :23:51. | :23:55. | |
Jerry can be, your Road Map is going nowhere - you should join the | :23:55. | :24:01. | |
Alliance Party. I will not be doing that any time soon. He said during | :24:01. | :24:04. | |
the conversation that this is an opinion poll and not a referendum. | :24:04. | :24:10. | |
The last thing it was tried out scientifically we were up front and | :24:10. | :24:13. | |
the reports -- an approach that you want an Irish republican people | :24:13. | :24:17. | |
vote for us in huge numbers. If you want to be signed to forget about | :24:17. | :24:25. | |
it, go to the last election. Peter Robinson has talked about turkeys | :24:25. | :24:30. | |
at Christmas, well, then, let's have it, let's bring the referendum | :24:30. | :24:35. | |
and put that to the test. The argument during the referendum or | :24:35. | :24:39. | |
during the election is an entirely different process to sitting here | :24:39. | :24:45. | |
after doing an opinion poll. election is also different from a | :24:45. | :24:54. | |
referendum. In fact, 22% of Sinn Fein respondents said they would | :24:54. | :25:00. | |
vote to stay in the United Kingdom. Well, I do not believe that. You do | :25:00. | :25:04. | |
not think that because Sinn Fein is now a party with a wider appeal, | :25:04. | :25:10. | |
there are people who are not married to the core Republican | :25:10. | :25:15. | |
beliefs? We will try to convince people that a united Ireland is the | :25:15. | :25:20. | |
best place for them. I am a republican. I believe it is the | :25:20. | :25:24. | |
best place for Unionists, republicans and nationalists. That | :25:24. | :25:31. | |
is a debate that we have started and will continue. We're up to that | :25:31. | :25:36. | |
discussion and to put that to the test. And, in the end, that has the | :25:36. | :25:45. | |
final Test. We have a couple of indicators, our opinion poll and a | :25:45. | :25:47. | |
lifetime so be, both showing similar opinion, that people are | :25:47. | :25:53. | |
not crying out for a border poll, and if they are, lots of them are | :25:53. | :26:02. | |
going to say, let's stay where we before elections, it is quite a | :26:02. | :26:05. | |
consistent fact, that we set before elections and underestimate the | :26:05. | :26:09. | |
Sinn Fein Board, over the last number of elections going back | :26:09. | :26:16. | |
years. -- Sinn Fein vote. We're up for the challenge. The conversation | :26:16. | :26:21. | |
has started. It is a huge challenge, to convince a section of Unionists | :26:21. | :26:25. | |
that a united Ireland is the place to go, but that there is the | :26:25. | :26:29. | |
discussion we are having and at least that discussion is being had. | :26:29. | :26:35. | |
We're up for the challenge. Let's put it to the vote. There has been | :26:35. | :26:40. | |
some dithering within the Ulster Unionist Party about this. We just | :26:40. | :26:46. | |
say that now you should have one? - - de Democratic Unionists party. | :26:46. | :26:51. | |
said that Sinn Fein can talk about an opinion poll, but if we had a | :26:51. | :26:54. | |
border poll tomorrow the greater number would vote to stay within | :26:54. | :26:59. | |
the United Kingdom. Gerry Kelly can talk about Sinn Fein been | :26:59. | :27:04. | |
underestimated in elections. You are right about that. It is not an | :27:04. | :27:09. | |
election. It is a referendum. And people would be very clear about | :27:09. | :27:13. | |
their economic and social benefits of being in the United Kingdom. | :27:13. | :27:17. | |
That is why people said clearly that he wanted to stay in the | :27:17. | :27:22. | |
United Kingdom. They are not convinced by the vision of the | :27:22. | :27:26. | |
Democratic Unionist Party. Less than 1% of Catholics would vote for | :27:26. | :27:30. | |
them. That was a challenge for us. We want to reach out to Catholics | :27:30. | :27:34. | |
were happy with in the United Kingdom. That was the context of my | :27:34. | :27:40. | |
party leader's speech back in November. Our flag protests the way | :27:40. | :27:50. | |
:27:50. | :28:02. | ||
to convince Catholics to join The combined decision of the | :28:02. | :28:05. | |
party's who have very serious crisis Trust and sells... Clearly, | :28:05. | :28:11. | |
the victory that was proclaimed by the leader of the Alliance Party on | :28:11. | :28:14. | |
the night of this vote is a hollow victory because in terms of | :28:14. | :28:20. | |
electoral terms, all the aggro on there were within the Unionist | :28:20. | :28:24. | |
community. Most people think the compromise is the right answer. | :28:24. | :28:29. | |
This has come at a very high price. This has upset political relations. | :28:29. | :28:33. | |
It has affected community relations and it has been a recipe for | :28:33. | :28:37. | |
disaster. I am afraid to the Alliance Party are absolutely | :28:37. | :28:44. | |
nowhere. 38% of Catholic say they want to stay in the UK. The kind of | :28:44. | :28:50. | |
scenes we have seen as a result of this protests are likely to make | :28:50. | :28:54. | |
them say they want out. It is counter-productive. The people who | :28:54. | :29:01. | |
have most to lose as a result of this poll, followed on by the | :29:01. | :29:04. | |
recent census and lifestyle studies, clearly on the leadership of Sinn | :29:04. | :29:11. | |
Fein. Their strategy has gone. It is in tatters. There is no prospect | :29:11. | :29:16. | |
of a united Ireland, there is no support... But whereas the | :29:16. | :29:21. | |
generosity from the Unionist community? 23% of Sinn Fein's own | :29:21. | :29:26. | |
supporters do not believe it is achievable. But why is there not | :29:26. | :29:30. | |
more generosity of spirit? Are you have this vast number of Catholics | :29:30. | :29:35. | |
who wish to stay part of the UK and you are scaring them off. Why have | :29:35. | :29:38. | |
you and other Unionist leaders not be able to convince your own people | :29:38. | :29:43. | |
that actually, the union is safe? believe we are reaching out. | :29:43. | :29:47. | |
while there are figures coming up which show that you are not. On a | :29:47. | :29:51. | |
Northern Ireland basis, we are able to reach out and particularly to | :29:51. | :29:56. | |
the Unionist Party. None of a Catholic respondents would vote for | :29:56. | :30:02. | |
the UUP. Centrist and moderate Unionist opinion... And not one. | :30:02. | :30:08. | |
How can you say that? Will provide the necessary leadership that will | :30:08. | :30:14. | |
link all of the people. It will bring people into the real issues - | :30:14. | :30:19. | |
the issues of jobs, the economy and health and education and that is | :30:19. | :30:25. | |
whether prosperity is. That is the underlying secret and necessity for | :30:25. | :30:31. | |
the executive half. Alex Attwood, did you represent the 30% of | :30:31. | :30:36. | |
Catholics who wish to stay in the UK? Are they all convertible, | :30:36. | :30:38. | |
middle-class Catholics who are looking to their economic benefits | :30:38. | :30:44. | |
and wish to stay where they are? I had been sitting here 20 or 30 | :30:44. | :30:49. | |
years ago, he would have said to me it was a pipe dream to persuade | :30:49. | :30:51. | |
people to join a partnership government if that is what we have | :30:51. | :30:56. | |
today. You would have said it was a pipe dream that we would have | :30:56. | :31:02. | |
brought about the policing we have now. While they may be a snapshot | :31:02. | :31:06. | |
in this poll, the challenge to all of us is to convince others about | :31:06. | :31:11. | |
the best way forward and we have demonstrated unambiguously and | :31:11. | :31:14. | |
overwhelmingly that when you apply yourselves and work up the | :31:14. | :31:18. | |
arguments, you can change how people think. And now you have | :31:18. | :31:24. | |
changed it, do people think it is not so bad here and we should stay? | :31:24. | :31:32. | |
Aboard a poll, if it were to happen - I think it should happen... We | :31:32. | :31:36. | |
have a period of time to bring about the situation... Or what | :31:36. | :31:42. | |
would you tell them? Catholics look to the south and see economic | :31:42. | :31:52. | |
:31:52. | :31:58. | ||
distress the stock they feel more How would I do it? I would | :31:58. | :31:59. | |
accelerate the process of national acceleration and healing so that | :31:59. | :32:02. | |
the legacy of the past will be dealt with and the truth of the | :32:02. | :32:07. | |
past will be dealt with. I would accelerate and built up economic | :32:07. | :32:17. | |
:32:17. | :32:24. | ||
opportunity so that people will five years. -- differently than we | :32:24. | :32:34. | |
:32:34. | :32:38. | ||
opportunities here in the north. Let me finish. In that way, you can | :32:38. | :32:40. | |
change how people see our politics. We will not go back to the flag- | :32:40. | :32:46. | |
waving... You are not only have to convince the overwhelming territory | :32:46. | :32:53. | |
of the dubious population -- majority of the Unionist population | :32:53. | :33:00. | |
but the Catholics as well. If they said 20 or 30 years ago... Your | :33:00. | :33:05. | |
campaign has been unsuccessful. SDLP argument prevailed in terms of | :33:05. | :33:12. | |
power sharing. The SDLP argument prevailed in terms of... People | :33:12. | :33:16. | |
want to stay in the UK. Stephen, one of the commentators said that | :33:17. | :33:21. | |
there was a fear that even the thought of proposing a border poll | :33:21. | :33:25. | |
would send people back to the trenches but the evidence of this | :33:25. | :33:29. | |
poll - and it is only a poll - shows that people would not go back | :33:29. | :33:34. | |
to the trenches. There is a very clear message coming across from | :33:35. | :33:39. | |
the poll as a whole. People are concerned about tensions around | :33:39. | :33:44. | |
flags both before and after the vote. They also see a border poll | :33:44. | :33:47. | |
has not been terribly relevant our situation at present and that may | :33:47. | :33:53. | |
well send the book to the trenches. But the vast majority of people are | :33:53. | :33:58. | |
focused on making Northern Ireland work and building a shared future, | :33:58. | :34:01. | |
addressing the quality considerations. If we are an | :34:01. | :34:04. | |
outward-looking society we can have a positive relationship with the | :34:04. | :34:08. | |
rest of the UK and a relationship with the rest of Ireland, the | :34:08. | :34:12. | |
European Union and the rest of the world. All those opportunities are | :34:12. | :34:19. | |
on our doorstep but the real danger of what has happened over the past | :34:19. | :34:22. | |
six months - the entire political system has risked tipping back into | :34:22. | :34:27. | |
the old politics of the past. We have a real challenge and close to | :34:27. | :34:30. | |
make over the coming weeks. Are we going to continue on the road of | :34:30. | :34:34. | |
the good work of the political peace process of the past decade? | :34:34. | :34:38. | |
I'll be going to press on and address a shared future? Of we | :34:38. | :34:43. | |
going to focus on the economy? The issue of whether we are going to be | :34:43. | :34:51. | |
in the UK becomes less relevant because Northern Ireland works. | :34:51. | :34:55. | |
have had plenty to say. The notion of a shared future - huge damage | :34:55. | :35:00. | |
was done by the Alliance Party and their participation in City Hall. | :35:00. | :35:05. | |
What happened at Belfast City Hall was a compromise. The nationalist | :35:05. | :35:12. | |
parties backed a compromise. Danny Kennedy... Let me speak, please. | :35:12. | :35:15. | |
64% of nationalists thought that the designated days was a good | :35:15. | :35:19. | |
solution. If Unionists had played this right, they would have | :35:19. | :35:23. | |
recognised that for the first time, and nationalist parties poll to be | :35:23. | :35:27. | |
voted for the flag flying from Belfast City Hall and we have the | :35:27. | :35:31. | |
same outcome that is standard policy elsewhere in the UK. How | :35:31. | :35:38. | |
that is a threat to British identity is utterly beyond me. | :35:38. | :35:41. | |
Unionists have failed to convince their own people that actually | :35:41. | :35:45. | |
things are going their way. Can we talk about consensual politics | :35:45. | :35:49. | |
because there has been a lot said about it tonight? Consensual | :35:49. | :35:53. | |
politics was working and we all were moving forward in Northern | :35:53. | :35:57. | |
Ireland for what we saw at City Hall was a move away from | :35:57. | :36:03. | |
consensual politics. The SDLP and the Alliance Party moved into a | :36:03. | :36:08. | |
majority position and then they were not talking about jobs, | :36:08. | :36:12. | |
education or economic benefits for Belfast. They were removing the | :36:12. | :36:17. | |
flag of the nation from the capital city of Northern Ireland. The same | :36:17. | :36:22. | |
as the rest of the UK. It is no different. You can shout at me if | :36:22. | :36:25. | |
you want but it is not the same as the rest of the country. If you | :36:25. | :36:30. | |
lived in the west of Northern Ireland, as I do, there is no | :36:30. | :36:35. | |
designated days. Would you call for designated days for the flying of | :36:35. | :36:43. | |
the Union flag? Yes. I welcome that an thank you for it. Things like | :36:43. | :36:52. | |
the flags are not helping. When the Unionists were in charge, they did | :36:52. | :36:55. | |
not allow the Irish nurse of the people. All this debate centres | :36:55. | :37:02. | |
around Britishness. It centres around identity generally. And it | :37:02. | :37:06. | |
centres around Britishness. point I am making is it should. It | :37:06. | :37:11. | |
is disrespectful to Irish. If you are going to City Hall, as we said | :37:11. | :37:17. | |
today, over 95% of all the paraphernalia and emblems... Were | :37:17. | :37:21. | |
we are in a British city. It does not matter. We are in his city | :37:21. | :37:30. | |
which is supposed to be shared... Consensus is gone. Gerry, 38% of | :37:30. | :37:35. | |
the people in this poll are quite happy with that. Let me say this | :37:35. | :37:42. | |
because Arlene has been putting the perspectives of her party. We | :37:42. | :37:48. | |
Onneley in a 50-50 situation. The City Hall and the councillors are | :37:48. | :37:53. | |
supposed to represent that shared city. That shared city is almost | :37:53. | :38:00. | |
half Irish and therefore, Irish... In that is lazy sectarianism. It is | :38:00. | :38:08. | |
not. The first Republican mayor of Belfast in many years did not | :38:08. | :38:11. | |
trying take anything else but he put up a try colour. He wanted to | :38:11. | :38:19. | |
show that it was a shared city. Demanding that it remains 95% | :38:19. | :38:24. | |
British is not consensual. The removal of the flag from City Hall | :38:24. | :38:27. | |
is not the only issue where there is a lack of consensual politics. | :38:27. | :38:31. | |
We have, within the last two weeks of the executive, the beating of a | :38:31. | :38:38. | |
national crime agency by Sinn Fein. If you want to go into that | :38:38. | :38:43. | |
argument... I do not think we do because it is not about identity. | :38:43. | :38:52. | |
Why are you afraid... After signing up to the Good Friday agreement, | :38:52. | :38:58. | |
why are you afraid of the accountability being put on... At I | :38:58. | :39:02. | |
am not going to pursue this argument. Danny, I am not going to | :39:02. | :39:08. | |
pursue that argument. Danny! I am not pursuing that argument - it is | :39:08. | :39:14. | |
a different argument. I think this is the fundamental issue of | :39:14. | :39:18. | |
political leadership in the North at the moment. It is a challenge to | :39:18. | :39:22. | |
Unionism and I have to say it is a challenge to me and democratic | :39:22. | :39:26. | |
nationalism and it is simply this. The new order of politics that has | :39:26. | :39:29. | |
come through the various agreements since the Good Friday Agreement | :39:29. | :39:36. | |
means that we have to say to our people - Unionists to the Unionist | :39:36. | :39:40. | |
community and nationalists to the nationalists - that Northern | :39:40. | :39:43. | |
Ireland will look and feel different. Listen to this! It | :39:43. | :39:48. | |
sounds exactly the same for the last 40 years. That is why I am | :39:48. | :39:52. | |
making this point. The new order of politics means that things will | :39:52. | :39:55. | |
look and feel different but in looking and feeling different, it | :39:55. | :40:05. | |
does not mean that people have lost all won. -- lost fog won. Danny | :40:05. | :40:10. | |
Kennedy, please keep quiet! This is the crucial point and that is why | :40:10. | :40:15. | |
Abbott aspic of stubbornness and for a moment. -- I would ask people | :40:15. | :40:22. | |
to stop and listen. Things are going to be different but that does | :40:22. | :40:31. | |
not mean that Unionists have lost the national identity or | :40:31. | :40:35. | |
political... Where is the opportunity? The facts of the | :40:35. | :40:40. | |
survey, the facts of the census and the facts of previous studies | :40:40. | :40:46. | |
confirm that Northern Ireland's constitutional position is secure | :40:46. | :40:50. | |
and settled within the UK and that is not a threat and should not be | :40:50. | :40:57. | |
considered as a threat to nationalists who have to live there. | :40:57. | :41:03. | |
Accept a dollar credit vote in City Hall. The consequence of Danny's | :41:03. | :41:08. | |
assertion of the Unionist confidence has to be not to tell | :41:08. | :41:12. | |
people that when the flying of the flag is changed to designated days | :41:13. | :41:16. | |
that somehow you have lost your identity, some power you have lost | :41:16. | :41:20. | |
out, somehow your worst fears have been confirmed. That was the moment | :41:20. | :41:25. | |
of bad leadership. Let's regroup and show good leadership. This is | :41:25. | :41:31. | |
the point, Arlene. From my point of view, and as this survey shows, the | :41:31. | :41:37. | |
democratic nationalism accepts that the politics of accommodation may | :41:37. | :41:41. | |
mean that the Union flag flies not in a way that I would necessarily | :41:41. | :41:47. | |
opt for in the first instance but in the wake of the designated | :41:47. | :41:50. | |
days... It shows that we are prepared to respect your identity, | :41:51. | :41:55. | |
accommodate it and not in any way raised it. Although you did want to | :41:55. | :42:05. | |
:42:05. | :42:17. | ||
It was quite clear that when Sinn Fein were in majorities in cases in | :42:17. | :42:26. | |
the West, then the flag went. We're not going to be ludicrous... | :42:26. | :42:31. | |
you're arguing they are and which they could easily have put up... | :42:31. | :42:36. | |
Gerry Kelly will let me finish. The reality is this. If Jenny says that | :42:36. | :42:43. | |
he accepts that Belfast Agreement he must and -- accept the principle | :42:43. | :42:47. | |
of consent that Northern Ireland will remain within the United | :42:47. | :42:55. | |
Kingdom unturned -- until such times as we can leave it. I am | :42:55. | :43:01. | |
challenging him to do to say, I challenge him to say in the west of | :43:01. | :43:05. | |
the province they should recognise Unionism on designated days. | :43:05. | :43:12. | |
Gentlemen, we are going to move on Forest's second. We have another | :43:12. | :43:17. | |
issue to address. There is a feeling of disaffection and | :43:17. | :43:21. | |
loyalism that they are losing out to the other side so how is that | :43:21. | :43:31. | |
:43:31. | :43:36. | ||
reflected in the opinion poll? We But as Stephen Dempster found out, | :43:36. | :43:41. | |
once again, below the surface, opinion is even more deeply divided. | :43:41. | :43:44. | |
The Malone Road, South Belfast. Once the preserve of the unionist | :43:44. | :43:47. | |
middle classes, but as the emergence of St Bride's Church | :43:47. | :43:53. | |
suggests, increasingly home to the Catholic middle class too. And it | :43:53. | :43:58. | |
is places like this thatcould be preserving the Union. According to | :43:58. | :44:00. | |
the Spotlight poll, affluent catholics, like the people who | :44:00. | :44:04. | |
worship here, are more likely to vote to stay in the UK than they | :44:04. | :44:07. | |
are to choose a united Ireland. They are one important reason why | :44:07. | :44:14. | |
the poll suggests such a big margin in favour of staying in the Union. | :44:15. | :44:17. | |
And that's probably related to another finding of the poll - | :44:17. | :44:19. | |
middle class Catholics overwhelmingly think the current | :44:19. | :44:25. | |
political settlement is fair to both sides. But that view isn't | :44:25. | :44:31. | |
shared on this side of town. Rush hour in east Belfast, last month, | :44:31. | :44:36. | |
and the streets are eerily quiet. Protesters have gathered to block | :44:36. | :44:40. | |
the Albertbridge Road, a main route in and out of the city. Among them | :44:40. | :44:48. | |
are local mothers Julie Ann Workman and Sharon Kirkwood. We felt the | :44:48. | :44:51. | |
need to come out on the street because nobody was listening to us, | :44:51. | :44:55. | |
and we thought the best way to get people to listen to us was to come | :44:55. | :44:58. | |
out on to the street. We don't want our culture trampled on, we don't | :44:58. | :45:02. | |
want our culture disappearing $YELLOW The taking down of the flag | :45:02. | :45:06. | |
was the last straw. It's not just about one issue, there is a lot of | :45:06. | :45:09. | |
issues. It's Sinn Fein-IRA, they are just eroding our identity, | :45:09. | :45:14. | |
taking our communities down brick by brick. Sharon and Julie Anne | :45:14. | :45:16. | |
believe the political process is weighted against their community on | :45:16. | :45:18. | |
things like parading and historical enquiries. But how representative | :45:18. | :45:23. | |
are they? Is this disquiet among hardline loyalists or something | :45:23. | :45:33. | |
:45:33. | :45:36. | ||
On that question over whether people think the political system | :45:36. | :45:39. | |
favours one community or another, over half of unionists feel it's | :45:39. | :45:41. | |
imbalanced in favour or nationalists. And that view is | :45:41. | :45:43. | |
strongest among the unionist lower middle and working class what | :45:43. | :45:48. | |
pollsters call groups C2 and DE. This sense of unfairness may be | :45:48. | :45:50. | |
more perception than reality, according to Professor Richard | :45:50. | :45:57. | |
English. He says the Union is secure but loyalists feel | :45:57. | :46:02. | |
threatened by the success of republicanism. Some sections of the | :46:02. | :46:05. | |
loyalist working class simply feel disadvantaged. Feel that they are | :46:05. | :46:09. | |
second class citizens. They look over the sectarian fence and see | :46:09. | :46:11. | |
Sinn Fein being very well oiled and well heeled. Well funded and very | :46:11. | :46:14. | |
professional. And they feel a certain envy towards that in terms | :46:14. | :46:18. | |
of not having that kind of representation themselves. | :46:18. | :46:21. | |
Dissatisfaction with the unionist leadership has also been voiced | :46:21. | :46:26. | |
throughout the flag protests. Nobody has no trust in them and to | :46:26. | :46:29. | |
be honest with you nobody believes a word comes out of their mouth, | :46:29. | :46:32. | |
because we are just pushed aside, pushed aside More specifically, | :46:32. | :46:38. | |
they blame the DUP. Everybody has lost faith in them and let me tell | :46:38. | :46:41. | |
you, my family all through the years voted DUP, my grandmother, my | :46:41. | :46:44. | |
granda, my mother, my father, but now we know what they are, they | :46:44. | :46:50. | |
don't get our votes, and they never, ever will get our votes again. | :46:50. | :46:53. | |
the DUP argue they are taking a lead on voicing unionists concerns | :46:53. | :46:57. | |
on issues like the flying of the flag and are confident of their | :46:57. | :47:03. | |
electoral support. We have met a range of people who say we have | :47:03. | :47:06. | |
been DUP voters all our lives and we will never vote for the DUP | :47:06. | :47:13. | |
again. Well, I heard that too. And election, and I have heard it | :47:13. | :47:15. | |
before previous elections. And we don't take anything for granted or | :47:15. | :47:18. | |
are not complacent in any way shape or form. But we need to be careful | :47:18. | :47:28. | |
here. The fact of the matter is, that overwhelmingly the vast | :47:28. | :47:31. | |
majority of unionists who voted in Belfast where we have 16 | :47:31. | :47:34. | |
councillors. Is that the vast majority of the unionist people in | :47:34. | :47:37. | |
all areas did vote for the DUP, and do support the DUP. But if some | :47:37. | :47:40. | |
loyalists and unionists reject the DUP's leadership, who will provide | :47:40. | :47:42. | |
them with a voice? Already divisions have emerged within the | :47:42. | :47:45. | |
new Ulster People's Forum, led by Willie Frazer and Jamie Bryson. | :47:45. | :47:52. | |
will no longer be driven into the corner by certain politicians. | :47:53. | :47:56. | |
is too early to judge if a loyalist political grouping will prosper on | :47:56. | :47:58. | |
the back of the protests. But journalist Brian Rowan believes the | :47:59. | :48:03. | |
number of people on the street shouldnot be overplayed. I think we | :48:03. | :48:06. | |
need a context and we need a perspective. This is not a people | :48:06. | :48:16. | |
:48:16. | :48:17. | ||
being on that scale of the 70s when you had the Ulster Workers Council | :48:17. | :48:20. | |
strike, the 80s after the Anglo- Irish agreement or the 90s and all | :48:20. | :48:28. | |
of the fallout that was associated with Drumcree. However, the | :48:28. | :48:30. | |
Spotlight poll, which suggests 45 per cent of unionists still support | :48:30. | :48:33. | |
the protests, eight weeks after they started, may concern the DUP. | :48:33. | :48:36. | |
And Brian Rowan says both the DUP and UUP leaderships have a PR | :48:36. | :48:39. | |
problem when they are targets for loyalist criticism. Have you seen | :48:39. | :48:45. | |
them walk the streets of east Belfast,? You know that, that they | :48:45. | :48:48. | |
would be as much a target as, as Martin McGuiness or Gerry Adams | :48:48. | :48:51. | |
would be if they walked the Newtownards road. Do you accept | :48:51. | :48:54. | |
though that Peter Robinson is unwelcome among a section of his | :48:54. | :48:58. | |
own community in east Belfast? look, there are always people who | :48:58. | :49:00. | |
are opposed to certain politicians. There will be people opposed to | :49:00. | :49:05. | |
every politician who has ever got elected. But under the DUP | :49:05. | :49:12. | |
leadership unionism/loyalism is demoralised. Why? No, I don't | :49:12. | :49:15. | |
accept that at all. I don't accept that. Some people will say that, | :49:15. | :49:19. | |
and some people will try to say that because some of them have | :49:19. | :49:21. | |
their own vested political interests. They are not weakening | :49:21. | :49:27. | |
the DUP, they are weakening the Union. And First Minister Peter | :49:27. | :49:30. | |
Robinson's dilemma seems clear, 46% of the general population think | :49:30. | :49:35. | |
he's handled the controversy badly, according to our poll. But what's | :49:35. | :49:38. | |
even more worrying for Peter Robinson, is that more DUP | :49:38. | :49:40. | |
supporters think he's handled the flags controversy badly, than | :49:40. | :49:50. | |
:49:50. | :49:51. | ||
well.37% say he's done badly, to But Richard English predicts the | :49:51. | :49:54. | |
issues within Loyalist communities could be a problem for decades to | :49:54. | :50:00. | |
come and he says Peter Robinson and the DUP have a dilemma. I think | :50:00. | :50:03. | |
this is a difficult situation for Mr Robinson because there is the | :50:03. | :50:10. | |
question of his own electoral support. Because on the one hand he | :50:10. | :50:13. | |
wants to make sure that he looks like the most credible Unionist | :50:13. | :50:16. | |
leader who can bring delivery of good to his own community. There is | :50:16. | :50:19. | |
also the question of how he looks as somebody who is not just the | :50:19. | :50:22. | |
leader of one party, but is effectively the prime minister of | :50:22. | :50:25. | |
Northern Ireland. The Spotlight survey asked about the performance | :50:25. | :50:30. | |
of several politicians during the flags crisis. No one fared | :50:30. | :50:34. | |
particularly well. Naomi Long, Alliance deputy leader, got the | :50:34. | :50:36. | |
highest positive rating. 30% of the population think she's handled | :50:36. | :50:46. | |
:50:46. | :50:47. | ||
things well. But 33% think she's done badly. But she needs unionist | :50:47. | :50:50. | |
votes to hang on to her Westminster seat, and 59% of unionists think | :50:50. | :50:53. | |
she's handled the flags controversy badly. The worst rating of any of | :50:53. | :51:03. | |
:51:03. | :51:06. | ||
the politicians we asked about. But if people think this means it will | :51:06. | :51:10. | |
be easy for the DUP in East Belfast, they should also consider that 45 | :51:10. | :51:13. | |
per cent of unionists still support the flag protests and, as our poll | :51:13. | :51:15. | |
suggests, a very significant percentage of unionists think the | :51:15. | :51:18. | |
current political settlement - agreed by the DUP - is unfair. And | :51:18. | :51:21. | |
nowhere will those views be more stridently expressed than by the | :51:21. | :51:26. | |
loyalist working classes. More food for thought. Do you accept the | :51:26. | :51:31. | |
Alliance has lost the East Belfast seat? The innings in the penis say | :51:31. | :51:38. | |
that it has been badly handled. Naomi Long has handled the | :51:38. | :51:43. | |
situation great dignity and integrity. Not according to 59% of | :51:43. | :51:49. | |
Unionists. Pensions have been inflamed. Accusations have been | :51:49. | :51:55. | |
laid against us, pensions have been whipped up by other parties. -- | :51:55. | :52:04. | |
tensions. The message is that we won the seat last time round, and | :52:04. | :52:10. | |
how we will seek to retain the seat. Naomi Long will work for everyone | :52:10. | :52:17. | |
in that constituency. The office is under 24 hour police protection. | :52:17. | :52:21. | |
And we still have constituents wishing to engage with us because | :52:21. | :52:27. | |
of the record of hard work on the ground in dealing with everyone. | :52:27. | :52:30. | |
How would you seek to get those Unionists back on board? | :52:30. | :52:35. | |
addressing bread-and-butter issues, issues a round jobs, training, | :52:35. | :52:39. | |
educational under-achievement, in East Belfast, that have to be | :52:39. | :52:44. | |
addressed. Things that aren't close to my heart as minister for | :52:44. | :52:49. | |
employment and that Naomi Long cares very much about as well which | :52:49. | :52:55. | |
are of relevance to the entire community. 37% of DUP voters say | :52:55. | :53:00. | |
that Peter Robinson has handled the flags issue badly. There is a | :53:00. | :53:04. | |
section of our community who does not feel part of the peace process. | :53:04. | :53:08. | |
Professor Richard English got it right - it is about perception | :53:08. | :53:13. | |
against reality. When you look at the amateur investment going into | :53:13. | :53:17. | |
east Belfast, looking at the investment bodies constituency, | :53:17. | :53:21. | |
east Belfast gets more money spent on it than any other constituency | :53:21. | :53:26. | |
in Northern Ireland. If you look at their unemployment figures and I | :53:26. | :53:31. | |
have heard people say that it is higher than might east Belfast, it | :53:31. | :53:38. | |
is 5.4%, and the average is 7.8%. There is a job of work from a | :53:38. | :53:43. | |
unionist forum point of view. We are engaged on that. I spent two | :53:43. | :53:49. | |
evenings last week engaged on that form. But there were Gate weeks of | :53:49. | :53:53. | |
rioting. P Bull have the right to protest and we have seen that very | :53:53. | :53:59. | |
clearly coming through. Why did it take you this crisis to sit down | :53:59. | :54:02. | |
with the working-class people of East Belfast and say that actually, | :54:02. | :54:07. | |
you are not doing too badly. have constituency offices right | :54:07. | :54:12. | |
across Northern Ireland, and we are there to serve the people. Actually, | :54:12. | :54:17. | |
if you look at Sinn Fein and working-class nationalist areas, | :54:17. | :54:22. | |
they have a considerable Disconnect From politics. It is not just about | :54:22. | :54:26. | |
Unionist disconnection, it is nationalists as well. But they are | :54:27. | :54:31. | |
not out on the streets writing. They still have that this affection | :54:31. | :54:36. | |
and I think we should look at. Gerry Kelly, is it good for you | :54:36. | :54:40. | |
that there was this disarray, because it helps your argument that | :54:40. | :54:44. | |
Northern Ireland is not workable even though we have opinion polls | :54:44. | :54:49. | |
showing that many nationalists think that it is workable. Witney | :54:49. | :54:56. | |
repeat something you said earlier on which struck me.-let me. That | :54:56. | :55:00. | |
nothing has changed. We have a power-sharing government. We're | :55:00. | :55:07. | |
moving ahead. We're going to try to bring in direct investment. We're | :55:07. | :55:13. | |
making an effort in the economic downturn, to do all of that. The | :55:13. | :55:17. | |
difficulty is that we are discussing things like flags, when | :55:17. | :55:23. | |
the other work is still going on at the same time. You pushed it. | :55:23. | :55:30. | |
be clear about this. Let's nail this. This was over the East | :55:30. | :55:36. | |
Belfast seat. They were out there against Naomi along. She was not | :55:36. | :55:44. | |
even in the City Hall and the Alliance have got it right. Let me | :55:44. | :55:47. | |
bring in Danny Kennedy. Is it not true that the leaders of Unionism | :55:47. | :55:54. | |
have lost their flock, 42% think Mike Nesbitt has handled it badly. | :55:54. | :55:57. | |
The DUP would butte rightly concerned about your overall | :55:57. | :56:07. | |
:56:07. | :56:08. | ||
ratings. Int -- would be rightly concerned. I have to say that Mike | :56:08. | :56:12. | |
Nesbitt's approval ratings are on a par with Peter Robinson's. There is | :56:12. | :56:16. | |
a challenge within Unionism to give leadership and we are attempting to | :56:16. | :56:20. | |
do that, and that is why we're engaged and involved in the | :56:20. | :56:28. | |
Unionist forum. It has been a very good sounding board, let me say, | :56:28. | :56:36. | |
for Unionist representatives and politicians. Engage with the whole | :56:36. | :56:45. | |
community, don't just talk about your cells. Let me bring in Alex. | :56:45. | :56:52. | |
If you step back, this is where we are. We need to consolidate | :56:52. | :56:56. | |
stability of devolution and consolidate against terror. We're | :56:56. | :57:01. | |
not living up to the full ambitions and values of agreement politics. | :57:01. | :57:06. | |
And unless we do, we're going to have a season of like disputes, | :57:06. | :57:11. | |
parades disputes, and other disputes. It is time to take stock | :57:11. | :57:15. | |
and move on, but to move on to the full purpose of the Good Friday | :57:15. | :57:20. | |
Agreement. You were calling for flax to be completely taken away | :57:20. | :57:27. | |
from city hall. And democratic nationalism work it through. In | :57:27. | :57:32. | |
order to demonstrate the politics of accommodation. The Alliance | :57:32. | :57:38. | |
Party work boot room. In the past, of nationalism and Republican has | :57:38. | :57:43. | |
some have said we accept that the politics of accommodation... | :57:43. | :57:49. | |
Sinn Fein and SDLP had been in the majority in Belfast City Hall, with | :57:49. | :57:57. | |
it have been flown on designated days? Please answer that question. | :57:57. | :58:03. | |
I will were fruit. Are we going to work on the politics of | :58:03. | :58:08. | |
accommodation... If you had been in the majority there would have been | :58:08. | :58:12. | |
no flag flying over City all. Is that true or not? It is not true. | :58:12. | :58:18. | |
The politics of accommodation would have prevailed. Look what happened | :58:18. | :58:23. | |
in Newry when republicans and nationalists combined to name a | :58:23. | :58:27. | |
children's park... Thank you very much for watching. We must leave it | :58:27. | :58:31. |