Special Spotlight

Hello and welcome to this Spotlight Special where our studio audience

have the chance to put their questions and voice their concerns

directly to our panel. Among them the politicians who take the

decisions that shape all our lives. On tonight's panel, Jeffrey

Donaldson - The DUP's Member of Parliament for Lagan Valley.

Declan Kearney - Sinn Fein's national chairperson and a long-

standing member of the party leadership and negotiating team.

He's been engaged in reaching out to Protestants, whether they like

it or not. The Dublin-based journalist and

author Dearbhail McDonald. Born in Newry, she's the legal editor for

the Irish Independent newspaper. Steve Hewlett is a former editor of

BBC Panorama, and among the many strings to his current bow, he

presents Radio Four's Media Show and is a columnist for The Guardian.

And the Strangford MLA David McNarry, who after a lifetime as an

Ulster Unionist, joined the UK Independence Party in October,

since when UKIP's fortunes have risen, but that is probably down to

other factors than David's membership. I must also said that

David has a very fine choice in l'Equipe this evening. Excellent! -

- in a neck where this evening. And that's our line-up for

tonight's Spotlight Special. And you at home have your part to

play. We want to know what you think about the burning issues of

the day. You can text your comments

throughout the programme to 81771. You can also phone and email us,

and you can tweet your comments to us at: #spotlightni. The details

are on your screen now. Calls cost up to 5p per minute from

most landlines. Calls from mobiles may cost considerably more. Texts

will be charged at your standard message rate. Let us turn now to a

work first question. It comes from a student. How can you justify the

Union flag not been flown in a UK capital city. This honestly we

first to the flying of the Union flag only been allowed on

designated days. Let us turn to Declan Coney first. It is the UK

capital city, so why can't you fly the flag of the UK? It is an issue

of equality. Belfast is a changing city. Last night there was further

change. I do not think we can reduce this issue to zero politics.

Almost half the population of Belfast are nationalist and

republican people. The decision made last night was the right one.

It was a decision for equality and we need to continue travelling in

that direction. I think it is lamentable to listen to the

comments from some politicians. I must ask what does that response to

fundamental issues of equality and mutual respect in our society and

the step forward that was taken last night say to nationalists and

republicans in Belfast? Belfast needs to be a city for all of its

citizens. He taught about zero-sum politics, but you would have liked

Nationalists and republicans did not get what they wanted last night.

They would have preferred it that the flag was not flown at all.

Unionist didn't get what they wanted either. We had a compromise.

That compromise is a compromise which is absurd daily in Stormont,

so let us take the Template from Stormont and applied to the

politics of City Hall in Belfast. Why not, or Jeffrey Donaldson?

most people in Belfast the real problems in Belfast are about

health, education, employment. is a big issue for you. We will

confronted with it, but in terms of priorities, this is not a priority

for most people out there and I were consultation in Belfast

revealed that the majority, an overwhelming majority of people who

responded to the consultation said they did not want to change the

status quo. Sinn Fein took about equality, but mutual respect means

you respect the traditions and identities on both sides of the

communities in Northern Ireland. Right now, Unionists are filled

that Sinn Fein are disrespected -- Unionists feel that Sinn Fein are

disrespect in them. We are part of the United Kingdom and Sinn Fein

should show some respect for and Britishness. While changes would

you make to accommodate nationalist aspirations. A nationalists have

the right to pursue their culture and identity. Northern Ireland is

part of the United Kingdom and that will not change. Therefore, the

Union flag ought to be respected. If I was living in Dublin, even if

I were a Unionist, I would respect the fact that the settled will of

the people in the republic is to have a separate state and I would

respect their flag. The flag of this country is the Union flag and

it should be given its place. would like to say very clearly that

there is a solution. There are 27 countries in the European Union. I

believe that every flag in the European Union should be flown

around City Hall and other countries that invest, when they

invest for jobs, I believe put them up as well and then everybody's

happy. The gentleman down here in the blue shirt. Respect for one

another and respect to one another's communities and

traditions, flying the Union flag over Belfast City Hall has nothing

to do with it. The vast majority of people here want to live in peace

and the flag flying over Belfast has nothing to do with it.

Politicians should move on. We have a shared future together. People

are saying just move on. I hope we she was that easy. For someone like

me who was in Stormont, the decision last night was paid back

politics. These people, this man beside Nina has an agenda that is

completely different from mine. I will live with that. Thank God I am

allowed to live with it today because it's not so long ago that

my life and many people like me's lives were in jeopardy because

people could not live alongside me. It is hurting a lot of people, last

night's decision and it will leave a lasting scar on how we develop or

move on, as this Gentleman says. I am not too sure that people

understand, people understood that when they decided that the way

forward was the Belfast Agreement that they left things behind them

because I understood as a Unionist that in agreeing to the Belfast

Agreement, Sinn Fein were agreeing to recognise the constitutional

position of Northern Ireland and that gives Northern Ireland and

entitlement to fly the Union flag in its City Hall, as a gentleman

said, it's a capital city. That is where it should be left. But he was

a democratic vote of the city council. It was a democratic vote

in the City Council aided and abetted by the one-party that has

this Ballers mandate. But these still a democratic vote. Gentlemen

in the front. The people who agreed to take the flak macro down were

all signatories in the Good Friday Agreement. -- take the flag down.

Gen to none in the red top. believe the violence last night was

an act of frustration based on the people who were carrying it forward.

The reality is that as long as they feel their political awareness is

being undermined, that will be the case. The real way they can change

that true democracy is to get out and vote. Unionist people in

Northern Ireland for the last 25 years have not voted and they

cannot expect to get their views seen and heard if they don't.

struck me, and I am a Catholic, was what people dislike was the level

of contrivance. There was a strong level of contrivance in the debate

and the response which resulted in the violence last night. Jeffrey,

this is not the priority for the majority of people in Belfast and I

agree with you. It is not to dismiss traditional culture. We are

going through a different and difficult process in terms of

equality. However, they cannot be equality in everything. I dislike

the fact that it was so contrived. So Steve, I hesitate to get you

involved, but you have made lots of programmes in Northern Ireland.

Well, not in the slightest, I made films in Northern Ireland when it

was a very different place. I haven't had a lot to do with

Northern Ireland since. I maintain an interest. I come here every now

and then, professionally, I got involved in the Good Friday

greement because I was at Panorama at the time. The thing that struck

me, I hate to say this company, because I am on foreign territory

here, the surprising thing will last night... Only according to

Declan. Sinn Fein voted for the Union jack to be flown on the top

of City Hall. When I was in Northern Ireland, they they would

have ripped it up, and happily shot anyone seen carrying it... Not Sinn

Fein, of course. The thing that stood out to me, there was the

Republican movement saying "yes, fly the Union jack on top of the

city Hall." That is a symbol of what is changing in Northern

Ireland. I look at this place with aur really because it it come so

far, such a very, very long way and I maybe wrong about this, I hope

I'm right, I maybe wrong, there are moments when the old thing twitches

and this is perhaps a bit of a twitch, I hope it is a twitch.

Lots more hands. The gentleman in the striped jumper.

The only reason why why Sinn Fein had the vote for designated days

because the Alliance Party didn't want the flag to come down. That

was the compromise. If Sinn Fein had the majority, or the

Republicans had the majority they would vote for the flag to come

down. Once upon a time, standing on

principle would have led to escalation. Maybe it was for

political end, or a cynical manoeuvre. I wouldn't under

estimate how the Unionist population feel today after the

shenanigans of last night's vote. I really fear this has put us back a

long way in what we're trying to do and what you alluded to we had

achieved. We have a lot to overcome. The gentleman in the red tie and

the gentleman at the front. It was contrived on Facebook and we

are small fish in a big pool. The whole world sees us and we

shouldn't be using social networking sites like that.

The gentleman in the red tie? to clarify, I don't think what the

gentleman said there is accurate. It wasn't a vote in favour of the

flag being flown on designated days. Councillor McVeigh made it clear,

it was a tactical vote. And the effect of the vote was to

have the flag flown on the designated number of days? It was

not a positive step. Noel, we struck a compromise and in

the interest of ensuring there is equality and inclusion for all

citizens in Belfast. Declan, I want to ask you a quick question. There

is another compromise now they flag the flag 365 days of the year on

the war memorial, would you accept that? I think that is a piece of

gratuitous... I am not going to take it any further than that.

You don't approve. It is important to make this point. It It

politicises it. Why didn't they suggest the flag being flown over

the Cenotaph... The Aliesance Party said they might support that. The

second question comes from Timothy Haslett. Does the panel think that

statutory regulation is necessary? Well, we know, I hope we know what

the Leveson Report is. It has been Cameron is not happy about the

legal under pinning of it and great shenanigans going on, again that

word in Westminster, but Steve, we brought you over for a reason, you

know, Leveson a good idea, a bad idea? Well, it was necessary. It

was necessary when David Cameron called it phone hacking, the

dreadful hacking of Milly Dowler's voicemail. It riched a pitch when

something had to happen and periodically it does. Is it

statstry regulation? Well, you could argue about that. What

Leveson could say, new tribunal, do what you are told. He didn't. He

said the press will regulate itself and the regulation of the press

will be validated by a body recognised in statute. What statute

does, it says here the principles and we are going to sit back and we

are going to validate the press's self regulator. A lot of people are

saying if you don't have the statutory back-up, you don't have

any come compulsion, there is no compulsion in the Leveson Report.

He doesn't ask the question what happens if the newspapers don't get

involved? He says the Government would have to consider statutory

regulation possibly by Ofcom. It is not statutory regulation of the

sort that perhaps it could have been. However, you are not out of

the woods yet because here is why - the body that validates the self

regulator is, he says, should be Ofcom. As the Minister for Culture

said, "I appoint the Chairman of Ofcom." the validating body, that

validates the regulator. What happens When the validating body

and the regulator falls out. Perhaps they fall out. How much

intrusion is justified by what level of public interest? If you

are exposing people strug smuggling or whatever, lots of intrusion is

justified. If you are looking into some celebrity's love life there is

a continuum. Supposing there is a rumpus. Somebody gets wrongly

accused of something. If you have a free press, these things will

happen. Pressure is on. Sort it out. The validating body, under

Leveson's proposals has the right to an ad hoc audit of the regulator

and the validating body is subject to public pressure and before you

know it, you have the application of public pressure for which read

political influence on the way the press is regulated. My personal

view is this proposal, the Leveson proposal, when you get into the

nuts and bolts of it is very hard, very, very hard to implement which

is why all the stuff you have seen on the news today, if the press is

able to come up with something that is Leveson compliant, my guess is

that is what will happen. Page 1718 of the Leveson Report

alludes to the Irish model. Just explain that to us and how that

worked? For those of you who have read Leveson... All of us. It could

be described as Leveson-light. We have had a form of self-regulation

in the form of Press Council and Press Ombudsman. That was given a a

statutory recognition and now the reports in the Republic of Ireland

can take into account whether a newspaper engaged with the Press

Council or not. It can be taken into into consideration. A lot of

people were cherned -- concerned about that, what I can say as a

working journalist, to date so far it has has worked. Unlike Leveson's

roe posal our press council can't impose fines. It is funded by the

newspaper industry. And the newspaper industry has a minority

on the Press Council. It is working because it was designed to ward

ward off two threats which was the threat of a privacy law and full

statutory regulation. Leveson goes further. We live as working

journalist and beyond that because it is an issue of civic society, we

live with the threat of full statutory regulation and a privacy

law. Where I felt Leveson fell down. It failed to acknowledge the force

of the criminal law. It is significant that for the kind of

offences that were highlighting in Leveson we are seeing the criminal

law, we are seeing prosecutions take place. The second reason why I

thought it was naive with the greatest respect to Lord Justice

Leveson, was in the shifting of the landscape of the media, I spent

three months in America this year as part of a fellowship look

looking at the future of the media in a digical age and and Leveson

seems dated because the real threat to people's privacy, when you look

at the mainstream press, we have strict regulation in the form of

contempt of court laws, our defamation Act has been a chilling

effect on our journalism... Twitter and the others blow it out of the

water? They do. It is in the mainstream media. You cannot ignore

the shift in media landscape where everyone is potentially a citizen

journalist. Sinn Fein, Declan, support

regulation by the DUP says is bizarre given that the Republican

newspaper has broken every rule and many rules that had not been

thought of in its history, how do you do you square that one? Well,

the DUP would say that. However, of course the newspaper observes the

highest standards of ethic and professional journalism... When it

said Margaret Thatcher was a murderer and it named members of

the security force who were ill- treating prisoners... Noel, you

will remember very well when the been and the media was an integral

part of our conflict and was responsible and some of the

audience may not be old enough to know or remember this when Sinn

Fein spokespersons were denied the right to speak for themselves, when

they were brought on to the television and on to the radio.

That was the Government law. That wasn't the BBC. If we want to have

a discussion about the free press then I think we need to remember

why Leveson sat and he was convened in inquiry because a little girl

Milly Dowler was murdered and her family's grief was invaded in the

most gratuitous of ways and I think Leveson has done... Leveson has

done some service. He called time on the fact that he will that

elements of the British press had lost the run of themselves over the

last 10 to 20 years. He has pointed in the direction of achieving a

balance by suggesting how regulation can be put in place,

whilst at the same time ensuring that we see a free unfettered press.

I would like to think that Leveson would act as a watershed, a

watershed where we will see the renewal of the British press and it

begins once more to shine a light where there is corruption, shine a

light on injustice and to do some service to us all by ensuring we

are better informed in relation to developing ideas and ensuring there

is better Government. The media needs to get back to its old credo.

The Leveson Inquiry should have gone into the privacy laws. And

people on the phone was brought together because of that little

girl tragic, yeah. People on the phones, they are growing all the

time. They are invading into free space. There are people out there

with scanners and they can listen into your or my phone call on the

mobile phone. Leveson didn't say about that.

Jeffrey Donaldson? We are not in favour of statutory regulation and

something akin to the model that operates in the Republic of Ireland

is a good starting point, but if it done work, we may need to look at

the the statutory leg lation. -- legislation. A lot of what happened

here is contrary to the law. When people say we need statutory

regulation, a lot of the journalist were breaking the law and we will

see some of them coming before the courts. I agree with Dearbhail,

there is a big issue around social media and the things that can be

said on social media, everything ranging from threats to defamatory

comments and where is the regulation there? And the other

issue that Leveson perhaps missed is media ownership. We talk about a

free press and I am all for a free press, but how free is a press when

half the press in the UK are owned by one man, one corporation, that

It will take some time to get this legislation established and we need

to have something in the meantime. We owe it to the families who had

been damaged and maligned by a gutter press. That is what happened

and it has been revealed. If it had not been revealed, it would

probably would still be going on. But I am concerned that what

happens in the meantime is that if we do have legislation, I want it

to be there as a threat. In other words saying to the media moguls,

let us see the colour of your money. That is effectively what David

Cameron has said. I am not sure he would be on the same timescale as

me. My timescale is we are going to regulate, we are not going to stop

the regulation ball rolling. We will keep it in tandem as to what

you are doing and if you default, we have something to hit you with.

If we don't have the legislation, then we are in panic stations.

hopefully the proposals will be ready by next week. Cameron doesn't

want to make this about legislation. This was theatre today. He wants to

be seen to say, this is your last chance. Get on with it all we will

legislate. But if it does get to the point of legislation, all his

original points will come in. The Press Council of Ireland, the

reason that functions is because it has underneath it the sword of

Damocles which is the prospect of invasions of privacy been made a

criminal offence. There were journalists going to prison if they

invade privacy. The idea you could have a law that would send you to

prison for doing it, if he got it wrong, it would not be acceptable,

especially in Britain. Dearbhail answer and that we have

to move on. We have to be careful what we wish for. Please don't

forget the good work that the press does. If you introduce legislation

that prevents the kind of investigative journalism that our

mast politicians expenses, etc, on those rare occasions where we do

cross the constitutional line, we do so in the belief that the public

interest is our shield and sword. That has to be the case. We have to

move on. The next question comes from a student from Londonderry.

The status of human rights, is it right in terms of the abortion

laws? The question is, up our women's fundamental human rights in

respect to abortion been negated. This debate has been on both sides

of the border. Jeffrey, what do you think? There's a clear majority in

Northern Ireland that is pro-life. It is clearly reflected. There was

an opinion poll in the Belfast Telegraph last week and only one in

four in Northern Ireland support pro-choice. It is not a question of

politicians trampling on people's rights. They reflect the settled

public will and the Northern Ireland that is pro-life. With a

great lack of clarity. Experts tell us they don't know whether or not

they can perform terminations or not. There is no legal clarity

around the common law in Northern Ireland. It has been clarified for

some time, it has been in and out of court... So why are we waiting

for guidelines? The medical profession have us for guidelines

in circumstances where medical abortions can take place under the

law. They were challenged in court twice and they are back again and

the Health Minister hopes to publish the guidelines once again.

But the guidelines they change the law. The law says there are only

exceptional circumstances where the life of the mother is at risk that

an abortion can take place. That is the settled position, and that

borders for it that in this part of the United Kingdom we do not have

the 1967 abortion Act. I then got that is not here. Does clarifying

the law automatically liberalise it? That is the fear, that if you

gave legal effect to the existing law it would be a Trojan course.

The statement by Geoffrey is a line peddled by the Irish government

when it was taken to the he the paean -- taken to the European

Court of Human Rights. The reality is there is synergy between the

North and South on this. But the problem is that even though

abortion is allowed in a limited circumstances, there is no clarity

for women and doctors to find out in what circumstances it can be

carried out. The great fear is I that soon suicide of a definition

of a woman's welfare, there will be a liberal abortion regime. Is there

a fading influence of the Church? The Church is still a pervasive

influence. There are people who describe themselves as pro-life

foot say they might be for a portion in the case of a rape. --

in the case of rape. I do wonder if the church influence has a place in

secular politics, but regardless of that, there is still a need to

clarify the law and I don't believe that Jeffrey is right. Young man in

the front row. How can we allow this situation to continue? We are

talking about young women... Not so young. Not so young indeed. People

have to get, for example, a ferry to Liverpool to have an abortion.

This has to stop. The death of that poor woman in Galway should not

have happened. How we can allow this to continue in a civilised

society is beyond me. Sinn Fein are accused of operating a forked

tongue in this with that given issues in the north and south.

is a deeply sensitive issue for Iris Society as a whole. I agreed

that we provide no service to the discussion by using labels or pro-

life or pro-choice. We cannot generalise an approach to the issue.

I know two situations are the same, nor do wiping that we can

criminalise women who have felt they had no alternative other than

to travel abroad for a termination. The women I know who have had to

make that decision, and it is a difficult decision to to make, but

did not want to be in a position. We need a second that discussion

and there is a need in the south to ensure that the legislation which

the Supreme Court ruling of 1992 called for is now an active to

create that certainty for women and medical practitioners. Your party

talks about wanting legislation in the republic... In the north, we

need greater definition. We need guidelines for the medical

practitioners. Dealers said to have to positions? Absolutely not. Sinn

Fein is opposed to abortion and the circumstances in society that give

rise to that, but we understand that when the life of a mother is

jeopardised, there needs to be the option provided to medical

professionals to intervene. This is a hard one. I am not a religious

person, but I absolutely see that this is an issue close to many

people's hearts. However, it seems to me that as soon as you describe

for human rights to an unborn child, at any point in the process, you

create a recipe for significant difficulties because once the

foetus becomes a human life, beholden of all human rights, then

it is quite hard to say you would allow abortion even to save the

mother's life, to be honest. How do you choose between two human lives

that have the same intrinsic value is virtually impossible. I am drawn

to a couple of things. I don't think it will be popular. There is

a logic to say that for human rights are a quiet at birth and not

at 40 weeks, 20 weeks, or whatever. At birth, be born child has for

human rights. Up to that point you have to approach these things with

sensitivity. I don't know anyone who isn't pro-life and the idea

that by allowing abortion, by allowing a more sympathetic

abortion law you open the floodgates to a deluge of abortions

that otherwise would not happen, instinctively I don't think that is

right. So I it advocates that women should have the right to choose.

Gentleman head with the scarf on. In the Indian culture, we don't

like to have any children aborted. My question is these medical

practitioners were unable to just the severity of a poor woman and

they let her die. There is an inquiry, so we can't say what

exactly happened. But her husband is asking for a public inquiry.

There are a lot of demonstrations in India at the moment. It is a hot

issue that has been swept under the carpet. What I find intolerable

about the case there Gentleman raised his here we had a foreign

national expecting a baby in the republic and told this is a

Catholic country and the law is that an abortion must never happen

here. To me, by a young woman didn't go into hospital wanting an

abortion, and I'd been she was treated abominably. It has left a

terrible lack of understanding in terms of, and I confess not knowing

to what extent does anyone's religion allow them to play God in

the way they did? And would anyone entering a hospital here in

Northern Ireland be told by anyone in that hospital, a surgeon or a

doctor, this is a Catholic country and abortion must not happen here.

I'm a legislator, that is my job and that is what I have been

elected to do. We have a lot at the moment and I am quite content with

it that when we approach these guidelines, I need to know, I need

to be more informed, to be honest, we need to be informed about the

questions a rising over mental health. Legislators in Northern

Ireland are in a difficult situation. I am a father and a

grandfather... You need clarity to sum up. I pink the population is

clarity. The next question comes from a solicitor. Does a border

poll lead to nothing more than a political strategy? People have

been saying they don't need a border poll because most Catholics

think they are better off where they are right now let us see what

Declan Kearney things about that Peter Robinson's comments fly in

the face of election. The majority of the Republican Nationalist

people are voting for parties which owe their allegiance to reunion

nigh quation -- reunification. 46% of Catholics were happy with

being in Northern Ireland and ds and different to voting on

traditional party lines? I prefer to live in the real world and to

deal with these issues in real-time and Jeffrey and others have

attempted to bring forward this myth ol gee. The fact of life is

that the nationalist and republican people of this part of Ireland are

looking for a united Ireland. The border poll is provided for in the

terms of the Good Friday agreement. Now if Peter Robinson or the DUP

have ne doubt over that -- any doubt over that, then let them not

fear the border poll. Let's Call the border people and let the

people make their mind up instead of relying on assertions or

interpretations by the DUP leadership.

Jeffrey, go for it. There is nothing to fear. Declan's job is to

convince Unionists that we should have a united Ireland. If last

night was aur attempt to -- your attempt to we are we are swayed

unionists, he have a long way to go, Declan.

APPLAUSE As for, I believe that the people

of Northern Ireland have a settled will about where we are right now

and frankly again I come back to this Noel, do you think in the

middle of the worst recession that what people need is a debate and

the politicians knocking their doors talking about constitutional

issues. In my constituency, the people could come to see me, rarely

if ever these days raise the constitutional issue.

Peter Robinson is is saying we don't need a poll because Catholics

know they are better off here? have no doubt. The Belfast

Agreement is clear, a border poll should be held if the Secretary of

State believes there is a shift in public png. There is no evidence,

bar none, that there has been any shift in in public opinion

favouring a united Ireland. Now, that's what the law says and if the

law says that, let's get on with the job of providing descent

Government for the people of Northern Ireland. Let's prove that

we have already agreed we can... Peter Robinson says he has achieved

that. I remember a myth if only us

Catholics had more babies that would be a solution for a united

Ireland. I think it is way too soon for a a border poll, if Sinn Fein

are serious about you know reaching out to other communities, there

will be a time and a place for that if the population shift demands. I

think the priority, we are in the early stages of a young peace

process. Our priorities should be working on that, building on that

and cementing it and reaching out to people to Protestants and to

others in our community. Again, getting back to this issue of

contrivance and this stoking in the background and looking for a

political fight and an argument that will bring people in from the

extremes into the mainstream. I grew up with that. I don't want

that anymore. I don't want it for my family, for my friends and I

think it is des picketable. -- despicable at this this point in

time. APPLAUSE

David McNarry? You have nearly said it all all as far as I'm concerned.

We will move on, then. Steve? just becauser wearing the same tie

as me. Bring it on and while we are at it, let's have a poll on Europe.

Let Northern Ireland... There we go. That's the one thing we want to get

out of. They are not taking Northern Ireland out of the United

Kingdom, but we want to take the United Kingdom out of Europe.

gentleman on the back row in the red tie. This point was raised last

week, Jeffrey. You think it is black and white, it is either a

poll for a united Ireland or staying in the United Kingdom.

Think outside the box and and what is wrong with having a discussion

on what it might be like if it was joint administration. There is no

point in sweeping it under the carpet. I think, will you not

engage for the people here? In the long tradition of politics in

Northern Ireland, if there is a border poll, vote early!

Very good, thank you. The next question which is from

Rupert a financial adviser from County Down. Where are you? Over

here. Corporation tax aviederam -- avoider Amazon predicted Cyber

Monday as its busiest day. How will this affect our high streets?

Amazon made �207 million and paid �1.8 million in tax. Google �2.5

billion and �Starbucks �3 billion in the last 13 years and �8.6

million paid in tax. Oh dear. Oh dear. But they are selling stuff

and how will it affect our high streets, David McNarry? Well, it is

affecting the high street, undoubtedly it is affecting the

high street. It is affecting the high street because that's how you

want to shop. That's how we want to shop. �465 million was meant to be

turned over this morning in a matter of hours by people going

online and placing their orders. I understand understand now that you

make the arrangements for collections. What is very important

is the impact that it is having here locally. In my constituency, I

have got Newtownards, too many shops boarded up. I go on to Comber

and too many shops shops boarded up and I go into saintfield and there

is too many shops boarded up. There is the competition from the

supermarkets. There is the competition as to what is value for

money? What is the he local economy and how do we put it together? We

are dabbling here and I'm going to criticise Sammy Wilson and I don't

often do that... What a devil you are tonight! I am going to

criticise him. This tie has gone to your head, Noel. I am going to

criticise him for dragging his feet on corporation tax. This country

needs corporation tax yesterday. Well, it is not his decision, of

course. Hang on a second.

We are not talking about corporation tax tonight.

Let's bring in Steve... I think we should be talking... You may think

that, but we are not going to because it is about the internet

and the high street and not about corporation tax.

But they are the ones that evaded corporation tax, Noel.

If all these big companies were paying more tax it would provide

more jobs in this country, would it not? Well, it would make the

pressure off the public finances whether that would produce more

jobs or a lower deficit. There are several things going on here,

aren't there? On one hand, you have transfer pricing on a significant

scale so that the profits all accumulate in the lowest tax

regimes because every time you buy a Starbucks coffee, the beans are

bought in Switzerland or have to be bought by the franchises and the

shops at prices which mean that in effect, the profitability of the

outlet is low, and the profitability of the coffee bean

supplier is low and of course, companies rig it for their own ends.

If companies are making significant amounts of money, in a particular

territory, as good citizens, they ought to go out of their way and

Starbucks are saying they will. They have to pay their dews, but it

is complicated because in some cases, I heard someone say this on

another TV programme, but it was a good point, you go to a cinema, you

pay your money to get in, now the people who have made the film own

the property, so how do you divide the take sntion well, -- takings?

Well, the people who made the film albeit they made it in America or

India, shouldn't get their cut. There is value in intellectual

property and that doesn't always sit in the place where the the

transaction is done. It is complicated. On the face of it,

there has been tax avoidance on a significant scale and it would

reduce the pressure. In terms of the high street, one point. What

shops have got to do is what newspapers have got to do is find a

way, fin ways to add value for their customers in the internet age

and merely supplying the goods probably doesn't do it.

The gentleman in the second row. There are two issues with this

really. One is the retailers aren't playing on a level playing field.

When Amazon are paying 3% VAT and everybody else is paying 20% that

needs to be sorted out. And until that is sorted out, nothing happens

and when that is done, then it won't be cheaper for these

companies to operate from abroad and maybe they will bring their

jobs to this country. The lady in front row? I wanted to say that

public service ins Northern Ireland at the moment are facing

unprecedented cuts. Families are struggling. They are really

struggling to cope and to manage their family finances. And it seems

immoral that large companies are getting away from contributing the

money they should be contributing fairly in tax to then fund the

public services. Jeffrey Donaldson, the high street

and Amazon and the other giants? There is no doubt the high streets

are suffering and Lisburn, for example, you can see the effects of

that and in defence of Sammy Wilson, he is introducing an extension to

the small business rate relief scheme. Small businesses don't pay

corporation tax, but they pay rates and they pay high rates in places

like Lisburn. This scheme will mean another 3,500 business will benefit

from significant rates relief. That is the kind of change that the

assembly can make in helping small business get through this recession.

It is tough. We need to do something about those who are

evading corporation tax. David, it is on the desk of the Prime

Minister. It is away from Sammy Wilson now.

Dearbhail? One of the reasons why people might not want to join or or

have a united Ireland, there are fears the Republic will fall off

the cliff if our corporation tax rate was changed. We have attracted

some of the biggest names including Google and Amazon and that's an

important part of the Ireland's economy and there are fears over

losing that. In In terms of what the high street can do, there are

similarities with the media and other industries. No sector in

society has been untouched by the creative destruction of the

internet. It revolutionised every aspect of our lives. There needs to

be greater investment in local communities, but if this is the

long-term change, it is something we have to adopt to rather than

crib and moan about. The internet has a a devastating

fact. We need to do something about jobs. The young lady in the back

row? Everybody is talking about what needs to be done for the high

street and fair enough, people will go for where they are getting the

best deal, but bar talking about corporation tax, what is being done

to attract shoppers back to the high street? Declan Kearney? This

evening in Dunloy 140 workers have received notification that they

have lost their jobs. That's the reality check for us all. The fact

is we are dealing with rip off economics. It was the rip off

economics that was pursued by the developers and the bankers and now

we are we are seeing it on the part of the big companies.

Those who make the most should pay the most. We need to see that type

of initiative and intervention being brought into play to foster

and to undepin the role of small and medium entier prices within our

community and the small and local shop Holders in our high streets.

We need to protect local business. We need to make sure that local

business flourishes, but we need to make sure that the people who are

making the most most start to pay the most as well.

The gentleman here in the tie? APPLAUSE

I would like to say Britain, the the Treasury has lifted �30 billion

in fuel tax. There is a lot of garages across Northern Ireland are

forming up and doing away with man and woman power. How is that going

to be addressed? I don't have time. Thank you, sir.

We must move on. The last question comes from a marketing consultant

Will any of the panel be following the Pope on Twitter? The Pope's

Newt site is up and running. He will not beat tweeting and to all

12th December. He already has a hundreds of thousands of followers.

Dearbhail, would you be a follower? The family. I think I was among the

first followers. It is intriguing, but it shows you the extent that

Vatican and others -- that the Vatican and others are going to in

terms of social medium. I haven't been following the Pope up until

now and it is highly unlikely I would take up the offer. I would be

interested to see what trouble he get into because it does appear to

me, you go on this Twitter and someone catches you out somewhere

along the line. What do you think, Geoffrey. -- Jeffrey? I suspect I

am with David on this. We follow Chelsea, by the way. I am more

interested in knowing who the next Chelsea manager will be. Maybe

following the Pope will give the divine intervention! Will he be it

a high-minded or will it be, it's Friday, a fish finger sandwiches

again? Declan? I think I will tweet over the Ulster championships.