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Hello and welcome to Spotlight's Special's European election debate. | :00:16. | :00:33. | |
Our studio audience will have the qhans chance to put questions to the | :00:34. | :00:39. | |
candidates. Our audience is made up of grass-roots political supporters | :00:40. | :00:42. | |
of the ten parties in the race with a sprinkling of people who haven't | :00:43. | :00:46. | |
made up their minds yet. You can follow us on Twitter. And we begin | :00:47. | :00:51. | |
by allowing the candidates to set out their stalls individually. Each | :00:52. | :00:57. | |
will have one minute to sell their wares, I shall interrupt them at the | :00:58. | :01:05. | |
60 second mark. At the end of our debate, the candidates will have | :01:06. | :01:11. | |
another chance to set out their debate. I invite, the Sinn Fein | :01:12. | :01:25. | |
candidate, to come to the podium. Ireland's place is in Europe, but | :01:26. | :01:30. | |
not part of the cosy, Conservative consensus in Europe. I was the only | :01:31. | :01:37. | |
MEP who voted against the cuts, cuts to farmers, rural dwellers, cuts for | :01:38. | :01:44. | |
businesses, cuts for SMEs, we need to draw down funding for small | :01:45. | :01:50. | |
businesses through the competitive programme. We need to access the # | :01:51. | :02:03. | |
80 billion. Sinn Fein has an alternative vision. Getting people | :02:04. | :02:11. | |
back to work. Those in work. Supporting those out of work. We | :02:12. | :02:14. | |
advance the peace process and we work to halt immigration. Sinn Fein | :02:15. | :02:19. | |
is standing in every constituency in Ireland. If you want a strong, Sinn | :02:20. | :02:26. | |
Fein voice then vote for us. APPLAUSE | :02:27. | :02:33. | |
The candidates are appearing in the order deck tated by their first | :02:34. | :02:37. | |
preference votes in the 2009 election. So next up, it is the | :02:38. | :02:41. | |
DUP's Diane Dodds. APPLAUSE | :02:42. | :02:50. | |
Good evening. Since I was elected to the European Parliament five years | :02:51. | :02:55. | |
ago, I have been standing up for Northern Ireland. Statistics show | :02:56. | :02:59. | |
that I'm the most active MEP in Northern Ireland. I'm proud that | :03:00. | :03:03. | |
I've been able to help churches and communities. Access over 6 6 million | :03:04. | :03:11. | |
of funding. That's make ago real difference to people's lives. This | :03:12. | :03:15. | |
election is primarily about who can get the best deal for Northern | :03:16. | :03:19. | |
Ireland. If elected, I will continue to work to get the most from Europe | :03:20. | :03:25. | |
for our farmers, our fishermen, our businesses and our communities. To | :03:26. | :03:29. | |
succeed, Northern Ireland needs its strongest voice in Europe. At this | :03:30. | :03:35. | |
election, I don't want to see unionism split and divided. The DUP | :03:36. | :03:41. | |
is the best party to make sure our voice is heard. On Thursday, I'm | :03:42. | :03:46. | |
asking you to vote Diane Dodds number one and transfer to other | :03:47. | :03:49. | |
Unionists. Your minute is up. Perfectly on | :03:50. | :03:54. | |
time. Thank you. APPLAUSE | :03:55. | :04:05. | |
Next up, the Ulster Unionist Party's Jim Nicholson. | :04:06. | :04:09. | |
APPLAUSE Thank you, Noel. Europe needs to get | :04:10. | :04:14. | |
real. The last few years have been difficult for Northern Ireland and | :04:15. | :04:19. | |
confidence in the European Union is at an all time low. In this election | :04:20. | :04:26. | |
people want to know who is best to defend and represent Northern | :04:27. | :04:30. | |
Ireland in Europe. You need someone with a record of delivery, you need | :04:31. | :04:35. | |
someone who has driven reform in Europe and you need someone with | :04:36. | :04:43. | |
experience. I am your MEP and I have delivered ?2 billion in peace | :04:44. | :04:47. | |
funding. I am your MEP who has campaigned for less Europe, but | :04:48. | :04:51. | |
better Europe. I am your MEP with the influence and the clout and the | :04:52. | :04:54. | |
experience to get the best deal for Northern Ireland. So I look to our | :04:55. | :04:59. | |
future and I'm confident, confident that we can reform Europe and I'm | :05:00. | :05:03. | |
confident that I am the right man for the job. Thank you. | :05:04. | :05:10. | |
APPLAUSE Our next candidate is the SDLP's, | :05:11. | :05:16. | |
Alex Attwood. APPLAUSE | :05:17. | :05:22. | |
Good evening all. I have been four months on the campaign trail | :05:23. | :05:28. | |
listening and learning, but it was a hustings event. 5017 and | :05:29. | :05:32. | |
18-year-olds that captured why I'm running. When they we polled 49 of | :05:33. | :05:38. | |
the 50 said they were for the European Union. They're right, | :05:39. | :05:41. | |
whatever our concerns, withdrawal would be folly. Our farmers, our | :05:42. | :05:46. | |
exporters and our businesses would lose out. But when polled about | :05:47. | :05:50. | |
where their long-term future might be, they said that it would be for | :05:51. | :05:54. | |
30% of them outside Northern Ireland. So after all their country | :05:55. | :06:00. | |
suffered, and all our people have endured, that's what the current | :06:01. | :06:03. | |
generation says and that should not be what the generation of the future | :06:04. | :06:08. | |
says. So I ask of you three things. We need strength again in Europe. We | :06:09. | :06:13. | |
need people and politicians who are tough, decisive and get things done | :06:14. | :06:17. | |
and we need to take Northern Ireland in a hopeful and bold direction. If | :06:18. | :06:22. | |
you vote on Thursday... Thank you very much indeed. | :06:23. | :06:29. | |
APPLAUSE And now it is the turn of the TUV's | :06:30. | :06:36. | |
Jim Allister. APPLAUSE | :06:37. | :06:39. | |
Good evening. In this election you have a three-fold opportunity to | :06:40. | :06:45. | |
make things better. First, you can improve your representation in | :06:46. | :06:49. | |
Brussels. Secondly, you have a golden opportunity to pass your | :06:50. | :06:56. | |
verdict on the dismal performance of Stormont where log jam and deadlock | :06:57. | :07:00. | |
is causing it not to deliver for you. And then very importantly, at | :07:01. | :07:07. | |
last, you have the opportunity to be heard on the constant pandering to | :07:08. | :07:15. | |
IRA and Sinn Fein. The on-the-run scandal exposed the skullduggery at | :07:16. | :07:21. | |
the heart of the peace process. Now, we've discovered that on more than | :07:22. | :07:28. | |
300 occasions, royal prerogative of mercy was offered to terrorists who | :07:29. | :07:33. | |
showed no mercy to their innocent victims. If you want to be heard in | :07:34. | :07:39. | |
these issues, vote TUV. Jim Allister, thank you very much | :07:40. | :07:40. | |
indeed. APPLAUSE | :07:41. | :07:51. | |
Now, the Alliance Party's, Anna Lo. APPLAUSE | :07:52. | :08:01. | |
Good evening. Northern Ireland is changing. We've become more open and | :08:02. | :08:05. | |
diverse. There are many opportunities for us. But mup of our | :08:06. | :08:12. | |
politics is divisive and inward looking. Change happens when people | :08:13. | :08:20. | |
step forward. Now is the time to show Europe the new phase of -- new | :08:21. | :08:24. | |
face of Northern Ireland. I have always been passionately pro-Europe. | :08:25. | :08:30. | |
It makes economic sense to be part of a single market of 500 million | :08:31. | :08:38. | |
customers. The EU has done a lot more than just about funding. As | :08:39. | :08:44. | |
chair of the Environment Committee, I have seen directives that helped | :08:45. | :08:50. | |
us protect our environment. As the founding chair of the all-party | :08:51. | :08:55. | |
group in Stormont on human trafficking I have seen at first | :08:56. | :08:59. | |
hand how member states working together can... Your minute is up. | :09:00. | :09:02. | |
Thank you very much indeed. APPLAUSE | :09:03. | :09:11. | |
Weren't they all well-behaved so far in the programme? Let's go to our | :09:12. | :09:13. | |
first question from the studio audience. It comes from ruth Maxwell | :09:14. | :09:19. | |
a chef in Belfast. Ruth. Has the free movement of people from across | :09:20. | :09:24. | |
been good or bad for Northern Ireland? Well, imbrayings, of course | :09:25. | :09:32. | |
-- immigration, of course has been a Ic. | :09:33. | :09:35. | |
The Government wants if capped at 100,000 by 2015. Let's go to Martina | :09:36. | :09:45. | |
Anderson. Has it been good for Northern Ireland or not? I think | :09:46. | :09:48. | |
that the whole discussion around immigration is being learned by the | :09:49. | :09:54. | |
UKIP agenda and the free movement of people across Europe is something | :09:55. | :09:58. | |
that is crucially important to the European Union. When you consider | :09:59. | :10:03. | |
the amount of our young people in this island alone and in many people | :10:04. | :10:08. | |
who have left and gone elsewhere, and the contributions that they | :10:09. | :10:13. | |
make, I would say that those households and almost 500,000 people | :10:14. | :10:19. | |
have left since the banking crisis. We know their sons and daughters | :10:20. | :10:24. | |
make a net contribution to the place wherever they have resided. And | :10:25. | :10:33. | |
other EU countries? There are thousands, thousands across England, | :10:34. | :10:37. | |
Scotland and Wales who reside in the EU countries. Particularly Spain. So | :10:38. | :10:43. | |
there are many people who go to the EU and there are other people from | :10:44. | :10:48. | |
the EU who come here. And it benefits us? They make a net | :10:49. | :10:53. | |
contribution to our economy. Jim Allister? One of the things that the | :10:54. | :10:59. | |
denotes an independent nation is the right to control their own borders | :11:00. | :11:02. | |
and the right to set their own policies on such vital matters as I | :11:03. | :11:05. | |
will gration. Sadly, one of the consequences of EU membership is | :11:06. | :11:09. | |
that that has been stripped away from us and our sovereignty in that | :11:10. | :11:15. | |
regard has been removed and we're at the mercy of open house immigration | :11:16. | :11:19. | |
from across the EU. Has that been good? In some places, we have had | :11:20. | :11:23. | |
some good, hard-working individuals who have come to make a life for | :11:24. | :11:27. | |
themselves. In other cases, we've had benefit tourists who are sending | :11:28. | :11:35. | |
back money to the rest of Europe. Child benefit being paid to the rest | :11:36. | :11:38. | |
of Europe. We have to get to a situation where this nation, the | :11:39. | :11:43. | |
United Kingdom, controls its own borders and another consequence of | :11:44. | :11:47. | |
the open house... On balance, you say it has been a little bit good | :11:48. | :11:51. | |
and a little bit bad. Would you say it is a positive thing for Northern | :11:52. | :11:55. | |
Ireland It is a bad thing this nation lost control over its own | :11:56. | :11:58. | |
borders. That's not really the question. Has it been a benefit to | :11:59. | :12:04. | |
Northern Ireland? No. It has not. One of the consequences has been to | :12:05. | :12:09. | |
drive down wages. It created a low page economy and I meet people | :12:10. | :12:14. | |
constantly struggling on the minimum wage, who just cannot find enough | :12:15. | :12:18. | |
hours to work to try and make ends meet. And one of the consequences of | :12:19. | :12:26. | |
floodgate immigration is that it has driven down - it made us into a l | :12:27. | :12:31. | |
pay economy. I think overall, it is a negative and fundamentally, this | :12:32. | :12:36. | |
nation should control its own borders. Anna Lo. Thank you. I came | :12:37. | :12:42. | |
here in 1974 when very few people wanted to come here to Northern | :12:43. | :12:45. | |
Ireland, because of the troubles. Immigration is good for any | :12:46. | :12:51. | |
countries. It brings diversity and it brings new skills and new ideas. | :12:52. | :12:55. | |
At the height of the economic boom here, with the construction industry | :12:56. | :13:01. | |
thriving, with the lack of workers, we went out to Poland to recruit | :13:02. | :13:07. | |
people. We ended up with 60,000 Polish people working here in the | :13:08. | :13:12. | |
construction sites and when the market fell about two-thirds of them | :13:13. | :13:17. | |
left. Do the low wage workers force down wages as Jim Allister suggests? | :13:18. | :13:26. | |
They are here to divide skills and we do not have enough of, like | :13:27. | :13:29. | |
plumbers and electricians and carpenters. When the market | :13:30. | :13:34. | |
collapsed, they went back and we have about 20,000 so this is a | :13:35. | :13:39. | |
matter of supply and demand. A lot of people come here for jobs that we | :13:40. | :13:45. | |
cannot fill. What we do not have the skills. -- or we do not. The recent | :13:46. | :13:52. | |
example would be a very big project here, we required 60,000 people for | :13:53. | :13:58. | |
an oil rig and we could only field, I think, 40%. 60%, we had to go to | :13:59. | :14:11. | |
Scotland and other parts in the EU. Diane Dodds? There is no doubt that | :14:12. | :14:18. | |
the European Union needs to be fundamentally reformed so that we | :14:19. | :14:23. | |
can once again have control over our own borders. We have said that we | :14:24. | :14:30. | |
want this as the key plank of the renegotiation that has been | :14:31. | :14:37. | |
promised. Before the referendum. Having said that, Northern Ireland | :14:38. | :14:42. | |
is a welcoming place and there are many people who have come here to | :14:43. | :14:49. | |
live among us and to make a positive contribution to society and that is | :14:50. | :14:52. | |
to be welcomed. You want to pick and choose? Every nation state needs to | :14:53. | :14:59. | |
be able to control its own borders, that is a fundamental of any | :15:00. | :15:04. | |
sovereign state but what we would like to see is immigration policy | :15:05. | :15:10. | |
more directed at economic need and that is a fundamental building block | :15:11. | :15:15. | |
of where economic policy should be. Let me also say, we are a welcoming | :15:16. | :15:22. | |
people and those people who have come to live among us and make a | :15:23. | :15:28. | |
positive contribution to assimilate into society are very welcome and | :15:29. | :15:32. | |
the DUP has members from the Polish community. We have translated our | :15:33. | :15:38. | |
election literature into as many as seven different languages. We want | :15:39. | :15:43. | |
to see people here, we do not want to see the racist attacks that we | :15:44. | :15:48. | |
have seen in recent days. Racism is wrong and the bears no part in | :15:49. | :15:54. | |
society and we should not confuse the issue of immigration with the | :15:55. | :16:00. | |
wrongful attacks on people because of either their collar or ethnicity. | :16:01. | :16:09. | |
-- collar. It takes a long time for the leader of your party to condemn | :16:10. | :16:20. | |
these incidents. -- colour. I would repudiate that absolutely, we say | :16:21. | :16:28. | |
very clearly from the top of our party to the bottom and the members | :16:29. | :16:33. | |
of the party, racism is wrong. Fundamentally wrong in society. We | :16:34. | :16:42. | |
condemn it at all levels and we want those people who constructed those | :16:43. | :16:48. | |
attacks to be dealt with by the law of the land, that is where any | :16:49. | :16:55. | |
Democratic party stands. If you try to close borders, do you not send a | :16:56. | :16:59. | |
message that migrants are not welcome? Which can lead to some of | :17:00. | :17:04. | |
those attacks? There is a danger of that. I believe in the freedom of | :17:05. | :17:11. | |
being able to work but not the freedom of movement to claim and we | :17:12. | :17:22. | |
do need in the negotiations, that this will change. And that is an | :17:23. | :17:29. | |
area whereby I certainly want sensible immigration policy and that | :17:30. | :17:31. | |
is what the Ulster Unionist Party once. -- wants. When Tony Blair | :17:32. | :17:42. | |
negotiated these border deals after 2005, they actually signed up to | :17:43. | :17:48. | |
this. I think our own government needs to make sure that they have | :17:49. | :17:52. | |
got it right and they get their own policy right. They are seeking to | :17:53. | :17:58. | |
limit this to 100,000 died 2015. And that is to be welcomed. -- by 2015. | :17:59. | :18:08. | |
Many people have left our own shores and have gone far away too many | :18:09. | :18:12. | |
places throughout this world. If you look at Australia and the United | :18:13. | :18:15. | |
States and New Zealand and many people here also work in Europe. | :18:16. | :18:22. | |
Alex Attwood, the latest figures show we had more people leaving | :18:23. | :18:26. | |
Northern Ireland and coming here by about 2000 so in that sense, | :18:27. | :18:31. | |
referring back to the question, has this policy been a good thing for | :18:32. | :18:35. | |
Northern Ireland? , make one comment, Jim said that immigration | :18:36. | :18:44. | |
had an overall negative. -- can I make. It is a positive for society. | :18:45. | :18:50. | |
That immigrants come here and work here. My children go to a school | :18:51. | :18:56. | |
that has mixed faith, has mixed social economic background and has a | :18:57. | :19:03. | |
mixed ethnic background and they are all the better for it. And myself | :19:04. | :19:12. | |
and my wife are better for that. Remember, Jim Nicholson touched upon | :19:13. | :19:17. | |
this, if we deny the immigrant and the stranger in our own country, we | :19:18. | :19:23. | |
deny ourselves because so many of us currently and over the generations | :19:24. | :19:28. | |
have been immigrants and strangers in other countries. If we deny them | :19:29. | :19:34. | |
here, we deny the very nature of being from this part of the world. | :19:35. | :19:39. | |
And let us recognise that when immigrants come here, the evidence | :19:40. | :19:44. | |
is they have little or no impact on unemployment, the evidence is that | :19:45. | :19:49. | |
they contribute more in taxes and pensions and benefits and let us | :19:50. | :19:57. | |
recognise that 1.4 million of people from Britain and Northern Ireland | :19:58. | :20:03. | |
live in the European Union. Letters have no language about this being a | :20:04. | :20:09. | |
negative when it is conclusively a benefit to society in terms of | :20:10. | :20:17. | |
adversity and the economy. -- diversity. There is such diverse | :20:18. | :20:24. | |
views from the panel and I take the point on board that it is important | :20:25. | :20:30. | |
that we do have control over the borders but at the same time, I | :20:31. | :20:34. | |
agree with Diane Dodds that these racist attacks that are happening in | :20:35. | :20:43. | |
East Belfast need to stop. Is it not true that whenever people raise this | :20:44. | :20:52. | |
issue of immigration, that it is a certain type of immigration were | :20:53. | :20:56. | |
talking about? They are quite comfortable with people coming here | :20:57. | :21:00. | |
from America or Australia or countries like that, but whenever | :21:01. | :21:07. | |
they are from somewhere else or possibly people of colour, that is | :21:08. | :21:12. | |
when they get problems. That is when we get these questions. At the end | :21:13. | :21:19. | |
of the day, you are talking about inherent racism. I do not think it | :21:20. | :21:26. | |
is racist to fundamentally hold the line that it is London and not | :21:27. | :21:31. | |
Brussels who should set immigration policy and that is all that I ask, | :21:32. | :21:37. | |
that our nation sets its own policy. And it is a consequence of being | :21:38. | :21:42. | |
within the EU that we cannot do that and I think that things are far | :21:43. | :21:46. | |
better settled knowing the needs of individual nations by individual | :21:47. | :21:51. | |
nations settling their own policies. That is not the point that he made. | :21:52. | :21:58. | |
You said that in your view, these were the concluding remarks, but it | :21:59. | :22:05. | |
was overall a negative in reply to the question about immigration into | :22:06. | :22:11. | |
Northern Ireland. But our own government cannot decide our own | :22:12. | :22:14. | |
policy. That is overwhelmingly negative. You went further than that | :22:15. | :22:23. | |
and do not rewrite that. In direct response to the question, it is | :22:24. | :22:30. | |
important that we condemn racism, it is fundamentally wrong. It is | :22:31. | :22:33. | |
fundamentally wrong. You have said that. However, we should not shy | :22:34. | :22:41. | |
away from talking about a policy issue which affects us as a | :22:42. | :22:47. | |
sovereign state. We need to talk about these issues but we need to | :22:48. | :22:55. | |
talk about this in a dignified way. Mr Allister, you are clearly racist, | :22:56. | :23:00. | |
that is the image you are portraying. You said you would like | :23:01. | :23:10. | |
London to make the decisions. Clearly, you would be opposed to the | :23:11. | :23:16. | |
decisions London would want to make so I would be careful about using | :23:17. | :23:22. | |
London as an example. London is the only government we have that works | :23:23. | :23:27. | |
in Northern Ireland. Why is it parochial party going to make any | :23:28. | :23:32. | |
headway if you admit decisions, from London? London is not voting on | :23:33. | :23:40. | |
Thursday. With the exception of Sinn Fein, who can make headway in the | :23:41. | :23:44. | |
Republic of Ireland, the rest of these parochial parties will make no | :23:45. | :23:53. | |
headway at all. Through the chair. I was going to make the point that | :23:54. | :23:59. | |
within the area of the rest of Europe, they have a massive problem | :24:00. | :24:03. | |
with border control because there is no border control within mainland EU | :24:04. | :24:08. | |
and it is only the UK and the Republic of Ireland who are not part | :24:09. | :24:15. | |
of this because we have water between us and it is different. They | :24:16. | :24:19. | |
have massive problems, especially in the South of Spain, speaking to | :24:20. | :24:24. | |
Spanish and French members and Greek members, and you have seen it on | :24:25. | :24:28. | |
television, people try to get in on those boats. They have a massive | :24:29. | :24:33. | |
bubble. It is a massive problem for the EU, not just us. -- problem. I | :24:34. | :24:44. | |
think at the heart of some of these comments we have had, particularly | :24:45. | :24:47. | |
from the Unionist candidates, is that they do not want to be in | :24:48. | :24:51. | |
Europe. And it strikes me as somewhat strange that they are | :24:52. | :24:56. | |
putting themselves forward. There is only one party which says that, that | :24:57. | :25:07. | |
is unfair. Over the campaign... Allow me to finish. Over the | :25:08. | :25:21. | |
campaign... Like IRA bombers going across the border to avoid being | :25:22. | :25:30. | |
arrested. Martina? Taking statistics about what has happened in the past | :25:31. | :25:34. | |
is not going to get us very far in this. And we could both do that. But | :25:35. | :25:38. | |
we will return to that if there is such a question. In relation to the | :25:39. | :25:50. | |
issue of immigration, it is quite clear that the number of people that | :25:51. | :25:55. | |
we have leaving the North, making a contribution, and the number of | :25:56. | :25:58. | |
people leaving Ireland making a contribution, they are contributors | :25:59. | :26:04. | |
so when we look at that free movement within Europe, along with | :26:05. | :26:07. | |
the other contributions that we benefit from with being in Europe, I | :26:08. | :26:13. | |
think they go hand in hand. And I think that is the kind of | :26:14. | :26:16. | |
conversation we need to have. One more comment. As Mr Allister brought | :26:17. | :26:26. | |
up issues of the past... We will talk about that later... I would | :26:27. | :26:34. | |
like to say to Mr Allister, I am beginning to wonder, maybe I should | :26:35. | :26:38. | |
vote for you! Because I would prefer to see you shipped off to Europe! | :26:39. | :26:54. | |
Let us move on! Jonathan, who is a machine operator from Belfast. Given | :26:55. | :26:59. | |
the recent comments made by the Catholic church suggesting that | :27:00. | :27:01. | |
Catholics should vote for parties opposed to gay marriage and | :27:02. | :27:05. | |
abortion, should religion stay out of politics? Bishop Noel Treanor | :27:06. | :27:11. | |
made that pastoral reflection saying voters should act with informed | :27:12. | :27:15. | |
conscience and he said that same-sex marriage and abortion were moral | :27:16. | :27:20. | |
absolutes. I suppose that Martina Anderson, he is saying, Roman | :27:21. | :27:28. | |
Catholic voters should vote for the SDLP, who are resolutely pro-life? | :27:29. | :27:36. | |
This is an opportunity for myself, given that insinuation, to put the | :27:37. | :27:44. | |
party position clearly. Tell us. I can back my claim. If you listen to | :27:45. | :27:51. | |
me. Sinn Fein is against the extension of the 19 six to seven act | :27:52. | :27:59. | |
and has voted so in the Assembly. We are consistent in our approach in | :28:00. | :28:01. | |
the Assembly and in Dublin and in Europe. We do not have any policy of | :28:02. | :28:09. | |
pro-choice but under the circumstances, when any woman's life | :28:10. | :28:18. | |
is at risk, as was the case with the lady, if she had been my sister, I | :28:19. | :28:25. | |
can figure no situation, where the part or the girl should have the | :28:26. | :28:31. | |
right to choose. That is against the policy of the church? You talked | :28:32. | :28:36. | |
about that issue and spoke about gay marriage. You see, as legislators, | :28:37. | :28:44. | |
our responsibility is to develop and advance civil affairs. And we need | :28:45. | :28:49. | |
to do so by treating people equally before the law. It is up to the | :28:50. | :28:56. | |
church to define and decide who is married within their own grounds. | :28:57. | :29:00. | |
And if they will acknowledge whether a couple is married. But when, in | :29:01. | :29:06. | |
terms of equal marriage, giving a couple access to equal rights before | :29:07. | :29:11. | |
the law, that is what we have to do. And we have to separate church and | :29:12. | :29:17. | |
state. Are you saying to the church butt out? I'm saying to the church | :29:18. | :29:22. | |
that we have got a responsibility as legislators to advance civil affairs | :29:23. | :29:26. | |
and the church has a responsibility to do what it does. But the church | :29:27. | :29:31. | |
should also look at the fact that it has the position for instance on | :29:32. | :29:43. | |
contraceptives. I know a lot of people. I have a lot of friends | :29:44. | :29:51. | |
within the LGA community and I will stand up for their rights that they | :29:52. | :29:55. | |
should be getting access to equal marriage before the law. Diane | :29:56. | :29:59. | |
Dodds... APPLAUSE | :30:00. | :30:04. | |
Of course, the church has every right to make its position known and | :30:05. | :30:10. | |
to contribute to the public debate in our community. I, as an MEP... | :30:11. | :30:17. | |
Does that mean they can say you should not vote for candidate A | :30:18. | :30:23. | |
because candidate A doesn't agree with church teaching? They are | :30:24. | :30:32. | |
saying you should examine what each andidate stands for. As, assen MEP, | :30:33. | :30:40. | |
I -- I as an MEP, I meet lobby groups from all over the spectrum, I | :30:41. | :30:45. | |
meet all kinds of people who come to me and they contribute to the public | :30:46. | :30:49. | |
debate on the issues of concern to them. So of course, the church has | :30:50. | :30:53. | |
the right to actually contribute to the public debate. Not just the | :30:54. | :30:57. | |
Catholic Church, any of our churches and our communities right across | :30:58. | :31:00. | |
Northern Ireland. That is very important. And then, people have the | :31:01. | :31:05. | |
right to question candidates on their record and to make up their | :31:06. | :31:10. | |
mind based on their record as to how they will actually vote. When I am | :31:11. | :31:15. | |
looking at these issues, I stand on a record of being pro-life and | :31:16. | :31:22. | |
pro-marriage. That is a fundamental for me. I have been consistent in my | :31:23. | :31:27. | |
voting record, in the European Parliament, on all of those issues. | :31:28. | :31:31. | |
I am not like Sinn Fein that takes a different stance in Europe, compared | :31:32. | :31:34. | |
to the stance that they actually take here in Northern Ireland... | :31:35. | :31:39. | |
That's not true. Martina Anderson voted to keep a report within the | :31:40. | :31:45. | |
Parliament that actually wanted abortion to be treated as a | :31:46. | :31:49. | |
fundamental Human Right. That is fact. Do you want to answer that? | :31:50. | :31:58. | |
You must let her answer that. The report was not voted on. The report | :31:59. | :32:02. | |
is the report that Diane is referring to and the good things in | :32:03. | :32:14. | |
the Stella Report, female genital mutilation. On these issues, I | :32:15. | :32:17. | |
wanted to put Sinn Fein's position on the record as if I had of got the | :32:18. | :32:21. | |
opportunity to vote which none of us did, I would have put it on the | :32:22. | :32:25. | |
record that Sinn Fein did not support what was in that report | :32:26. | :32:31. | |
about abortion. We would not have supported that. That is clear. Let | :32:32. | :32:38. | |
us be absolutely clear what happened in the European Parliament. The | :32:39. | :32:41. | |
report was brought before the Parliament. I voted to have the | :32:42. | :32:45. | |
report taken back. Sinn Fein voted to keep the report. That's not in | :32:46. | :32:57. | |
voting in support. That's a different emphasis. The church and | :32:58. | :33:01. | |
its influence on politics? Well, I remember a conversation Noel, on one | :33:02. | :33:06. | |
of the quieter days in the Haass process with Richard Haass where I | :33:07. | :33:09. | |
said to him in my view the most interesting person in the world in | :33:10. | :33:14. | |
the last 20 years wag Pope Francis and Haass replied that he agreed. So | :33:15. | :33:20. | |
I think we are in this very fertile moment potentially around churches | :33:21. | :33:24. | |
including the Catholic Church where they can show leadership in the | :33:25. | :33:29. | |
world in a way that images the Catholic Church and the Christian | :33:30. | :33:32. | |
faith at the service of the poor. That's a very powerful thing. I | :33:33. | :33:38. | |
think... Same-sex marriage and abortion are not issues of economic | :33:39. | :33:43. | |
levels. It is very important that the church takes leadership | :33:44. | :33:48. | |
positions even if I, as a person, of faith and coming from the Catholic | :33:49. | :33:54. | |
tradition, and the tradition that Bishop Noel Trainor is from, even on | :33:55. | :33:58. | |
the issue of equal marriage, I differ with him. So that's why the | :33:59. | :34:04. | |
SDLP on three occasions in the Assembly voted in favour of equal | :34:05. | :34:08. | |
marriage. But recognising that this is an issue of conscious, our | :34:09. | :34:14. | |
morals, our values, for even our members, we have tid Said to our | :34:15. | :34:17. | |
people f it is a matter of conscience then you don't have to | :34:18. | :34:21. | |
vote in favour of the policy of the party in terms of equal marriage. I | :34:22. | :34:26. | |
believe that policy in terms of building an inclusive and respectful | :34:27. | :34:31. | |
society, one that they are crying out for, I think that is the right | :34:32. | :34:35. | |
approach and when to comes to abortion, the SDLP policy has been | :34:36. | :34:39. | |
since the day and the hour the party was formed is to be opposed to | :34:40. | :34:44. | |
abortion and like other parties, not to see the introduction of the 67 | :34:45. | :34:53. | |
Abortion Act introduced into our circumstances in Northern Ireland. | :34:54. | :34:56. | |
Jim Allister? Jim Nicholson? Most of them are | :34:57. | :35:06. | |
conscience issues as far as the party is concerned and we have | :35:07. | :35:10. | |
members within the party with differing points of view, and I | :35:11. | :35:14. | |
don't believe it is an issue for Europe. I don't think it is the | :35:15. | :35:17. | |
responsibility of Europe and it should come down to regions within | :35:18. | :35:22. | |
the memb states so they can make their own decisions and it is the | :35:23. | :35:26. | |
right of any church... But to make an issue which is recognised in one | :35:27. | :35:31. | |
country, recognised by all countries. If you got married in | :35:32. | :35:36. | |
Spain, a same-sex marriage in Spain, that you would have to be recognised | :35:37. | :35:39. | |
by the Government of the United Kingdom? Well, this is one of the | :35:40. | :35:41. | |
difficulties in Europe quite frankly where they want to make one suit fit | :35:42. | :35:46. | |
everybody and it doesn't work because different people have | :35:47. | :35:49. | |
different traditions, different backgrounds and different beliefs, | :35:50. | :35:54. | |
but on this issue I have to say on abortion, I have to say, I think | :35:55. | :35:59. | |
probably there is maybe too many men give their view on this and I would | :36:00. | :36:03. | |
hate to have to be the one to decide between the life of a female and the | :36:04. | :36:11. | |
unborn child if there was danger. But you are a legislator, you are | :36:12. | :36:16. | |
paid. Yes, we are paid. But that is a very, very difficult decision to | :36:17. | :36:20. | |
have to take and if I had to take it... The bishop? He can speak for | :36:21. | :36:28. | |
himself. I'm not going to criticise Catholic... The Bishop of Cork spoke | :36:29. | :36:38. | |
out about this, he is looking forward to seeing same-sex marriage | :36:39. | :36:41. | |
recognised in the church? On gay marriage, I am not in favour and I | :36:42. | :36:49. | |
would not be in favour on abortion to extend the present Abortion Act. | :36:50. | :36:55. | |
Should churches get involved? It is right the church should have a view | :36:56. | :37:00. | |
on moral issues. I don't think churches should seek to tell any | :37:01. | :37:03. | |
individual how to vote, but it is legitimate for him to set out the | :37:04. | :37:08. | |
church position on moral issues. The same thing though, isn't it? No, it | :37:09. | :37:15. | |
is not. You are saying don't vote for anyone who doesn't agree with | :37:16. | :37:24. | |
us? Fundamentally, I am unashamedly pro-life, against abortion on | :37:25. | :37:32. | |
demand. I unashamedly protraditional marriage and against sex marriage. | :37:33. | :37:36. | |
There is no Human Right anywhere in the European Convention on Human | :37:37. | :37:39. | |
Rights in relation to same-sex marriage. It is, of course, a per | :37:40. | :37:44. | |
version of marriage and I remember being in the European Parliament | :37:45. | :37:51. | |
when Bairbre de B did vote for a report demanding abortion on demand | :37:52. | :37:57. | |
and Sinn Fein do play fast and loose with this issue. In Brussels they | :37:58. | :38:03. | |
are openly overtly pro-abortion. In Stormont, because they know it | :38:04. | :38:07. | |
wouldn't play too well, they try and tone down... | :38:08. | :38:12. | |
APPLAUSE You are saying that's not true? It | :38:13. | :38:21. | |
is not true. We will leave at that. Anna Lo. I have always said that | :38:22. | :38:24. | |
politicians should leave their bible at the door when they come into | :38:25. | :38:26. | |
Stormont. APPLAUSE | :38:27. | :38:36. | |
Think -- I think it is a politician mixing religion with politics. For | :38:37. | :38:44. | |
example our ban on blood donation by the DUP Health Minister. That is out | :38:45. | :38:49. | |
of line what rest of the UK -- with the rest of the UK. In terms of | :38:50. | :38:54. | |
abortion, our party, the Alliance Party has no set policy on this. It | :38:55. | :38:57. | |
is a matter of conscience, but I'm one of the only two politicians here | :38:58. | :39:04. | |
in Northern Ireland who support pro-choice. I believe and this is | :39:05. | :39:09. | |
coming from my experience of working as a community worker, and a social | :39:10. | :39:14. | |
worker for many years, working with women, with families, and women when | :39:15. | :39:20. | |
they are faced with a crisis pregnancy and I think she has the | :39:21. | :39:25. | |
right, she must have the right to decide what to do with her own body. | :39:26. | :39:30. | |
The question being, Anna Lo, it is not about politicians bringing their | :39:31. | :39:34. | |
religion into Parliament, it is about churchmen bringing their moral | :39:35. | :39:44. | |
precepts into politics? But this is church dictating to us. Do they have | :39:45. | :39:55. | |
the right to do that? In terms of same-sex marriage, the Alliance | :39:56. | :40:01. | |
Party has a strong policy in support of same-sex marriage. I believe... | :40:02. | :40:07. | |
APPLAUSE I believe if a couple, whether it is | :40:08. | :40:08. | |
two men, two women, I believe if a couple, whether it is | :40:09. | :40:16. | |
want to spend the rest of their lives together... What about a man | :40:17. | :40:17. | |
and two women, do you support that as well? I'll not ask that question. | :40:18. | :40:27. | |
Jonathan, what do you think? I still think that some parties or maybe the | :40:28. | :40:31. | |
individual members of the parties let their religion dictate the | :40:32. | :40:35. | |
policies and agendas rather than what would be for the benefit of | :40:36. | :40:41. | |
society as a whole. Let's move on to our third question. It is from Clive | :40:42. | :41:00. | |
Henderson who is from Irvinestown? If UK left the EU what would happen | :41:01. | :41:09. | |
the single farm payments? Jim Allister, I better put that to you, | :41:10. | :41:14. | |
would the Government replace that money? That vast amount of money is | :41:15. | :41:19. | |
a return of some of our own money because we pay in ?17 billion every | :41:20. | :41:29. | |
year into Brussels. We get back less than half so the net cost is ?23.6 | :41:30. | :41:38. | |
million per day. ?1 million for every hour. So what we're getting | :41:39. | :41:47. | |
back from Europe a portion of our own money. If we weren't in the EU, | :41:48. | :41:54. | |
we would have ?17 billion to spend on our own farmers and our own | :41:55. | :41:59. | |
fishermen. We know the Health Service is in bad condition and the | :42:00. | :42:03. | |
welfare budget is costing millions and people are getting older and | :42:04. | :42:08. | |
they need more pensions? The Common Agricultural Policy doesn't just | :42:09. | :42:11. | |
apply to Northern Ireland, it applies across the United Kingdom, | :42:12. | :42:18. | |
the requirement of the agriculture and agri food industry particularly | :42:19. | :42:22. | |
at a time when world food production needs to rise, when there is a | :42:23. | :42:27. | |
rising population, it is perhaps the one industry that has great growth | :42:28. | :42:30. | |
opportunities. Any Government in its right mind would want to encourage | :42:31. | :42:35. | |
it, to grow it, because it can be our greatest exporter. I have | :42:36. | :42:39. | |
confident that any Government that wanted to have a competitive | :42:40. | :42:44. | |
industry in agriculture and I think all would, would recognise the | :42:45. | :42:48. | |
necessity of sustaining and supporting that industry. Would | :42:49. | :42:53. | |
there not be some Governments who would say if this industry can't | :42:54. | :42:57. | |
stand on its own two feet, let's give it up? I think the reality is | :42:58. | :43:03. | |
when you have an industry so central to food, as food production, which | :43:04. | :43:08. | |
is what keeps us all alive then no Government in it's right mind is | :43:09. | :43:12. | |
ever going to turn its back on that industry. And this nonsense that we | :43:13. | :43:21. | |
must cravely cling to Brussels and say, "Oh, we're so grateful that for | :43:22. | :43:27. | |
every ?20 we give you, you give us back ?10. How grateful we are." We | :43:28. | :43:39. | |
must really get over that attitude. APPLAUSE | :43:40. | :43:41. | |
This is an issue that goes to the heart of what the future is going to | :43:42. | :43:46. | |
be. If you look at the situation in the agricultural industry and you | :43:47. | :43:49. | |
have to realise that the farmers in Northern Ireland are simply, but the | :43:50. | :43:54. | |
first link in the food chain that is one of the most progressive, | :43:55. | :44:01. | |
creating jobs, and wealth and stability in Northern Ireland. It is | :44:02. | :44:04. | |
the one area that stood firm against that economic downturn. So I can | :44:05. | :44:09. | |
tell you one thing - before I would ever agree to leaving Europe, I | :44:10. | :44:14. | |
would not only want that renegotiation to take place between | :44:15. | :44:18. | |
London and Brussels, but I would want a negotiation between Belfast | :44:19. | :44:24. | |
and London to guarantee to me that the money that this ?17 million that | :44:25. | :44:28. | |
Jim talks about, would actually, we would get a portion of that for the | :44:29. | :44:34. | |
agricultural industry. So you don't have the confidence that he would | :44:35. | :44:38. | |
has that that would be automatic? Well, I have seen a lot of | :44:39. | :44:41. | |
governments come and go and I have never seen one want to send us extra | :44:42. | :44:48. | |
money. As far as I am concerned... They send us 10 approximately 0 | :44:49. | :44:55. | |
billion a year, but they would have to send us more. The single farm | :44:56. | :45:00. | |
payment is more than 52% of every farm income in Northern Ireland. | :45:01. | :45:08. | |
That is what is needed to sustain that and can you imagine where this | :45:09. | :45:13. | |
country would be every lost jobs through farming and the food | :45:14. | :45:18. | |
industry that. There. And we have this challenge with the reform and | :45:19. | :45:23. | |
the biggest danger that we face is not from Brussels, and the CMP, it | :45:24. | :45:30. | |
is because Stormont cannot make up their mind about what to do before | :45:31. | :45:34. | |
August on high that Bonnie will be distributed. -- how that money. As | :45:35. | :45:42. | |
someone who has spent 25 years as a mEP, I have never once politicised | :45:43. | :45:49. | |
agriculture and it is a shame to those parties who have and if they | :45:50. | :45:54. | |
destroy this business, they will be held responsible by the people of | :45:55. | :45:58. | |
Northern Ireland. He is pointing the finger at you, Martina Anderson? I | :45:59. | :46:04. | |
would like to respond to the question because the couple and | :46:05. | :46:12. | |
farming is the exclusive competency of Europe sold you would not get | :46:13. | :46:16. | |
that replaced by any other government. -- so you would not. | :46:17. | :46:23. | |
That is where farmers have real concern in regards to the common | :46:24. | :46:26. | |
agricultural policy. This is about such a referendum and it is decided | :46:27. | :46:33. | |
that Britain should leave, we are of the opinion, as I said in my | :46:34. | :46:37. | |
opening, that the place of Ireland is in Europe and that is one of the | :46:38. | :46:41. | |
reasons that we look at this, we look at funding for cap and funding | :46:42. | :46:47. | |
for structural business and I would say to all of those groups, farmers | :46:48. | :46:53. | |
big and small, do not listen to the nonsense you will hear about us | :46:54. | :46:56. | |
being better out of Europe because there is no mission that the British | :46:57. | :47:02. | |
government will replace that funding for you here. It is actually Sinn | :47:03. | :47:15. | |
Fein? Politicising the single farm payment. Trying to even it out? That | :47:16. | :47:23. | |
is seen by some as taking money away from the most reductive farmers. | :47:24. | :47:29. | |
There are thousands of farmers in severely disadvantaged areas and | :47:30. | :47:32. | |
they are getting below the average payment. Because they are producing | :47:33. | :47:39. | |
below. This is about the rights for those farmers. People who produce | :47:40. | :47:46. | |
more should not get more subsidy? This is an income support model, not | :47:47. | :47:51. | |
for production. What would get better production is growth and that | :47:52. | :48:00. | |
is with the Minister, sitting in the Executive and the DUP blocked that. | :48:01. | :48:04. | |
That is what we need to look at if we're going for the growth strategy | :48:05. | :48:08. | |
and that is what we're going to do to enhance production. You are | :48:09. | :48:16. | |
blocking progress? I am glad to see I be culture at the top of the | :48:17. | :48:20. | |
agenda. The single farm payment is important to farmers, it is a | :48:21. | :48:27. | |
lifeline. -- agriculture. As the farmer's friend, the DUP has stood | :48:28. | :48:33. | |
up for farmers over and over again in Europe and in Stormont. We will | :48:34. | :48:41. | |
ensure that, no matter what happens in any renegotiation, we will ensure | :48:42. | :48:47. | |
that there is direct support. I want to say that even the most advanced | :48:48. | :48:51. | |
economy, free-market economy, in the world, the USA, supports farmers and | :48:52. | :48:58. | |
it is absolutely vital that we categorically state that no matter | :48:59. | :49:04. | |
what we do, support for farmers is absolutely important. And did you | :49:05. | :49:11. | |
block that growth strategy? It is important because Northern Ireland | :49:12. | :49:16. | |
agriculture is important to the economy, 52% of all manufacturing | :49:17. | :49:20. | |
sales are from this sector. It is absolutely vital to grow this sector | :49:21. | :49:27. | |
and we continue to support sustainable farming. The DUP stands | :49:28. | :49:34. | |
up for these farmers and that is why in December, when my colleague, | :49:35. | :49:39. | |
Simon Hamilton, to the Sinn Fein minister to court, we ensured there | :49:40. | :49:46. | |
was an extra 137 macro and euros in the pot for the single farm payment. | :49:47. | :49:53. | |
-- 137 macro. We are standing up for farmers. -- ?137 million. Growing | :49:54. | :50:09. | |
for growth is the agreed road map between the industry and the | :50:10. | :50:12. | |
government to take Northern Ireland farming into the future. Mike | :50:13. | :50:17. | |
Holding, Arlene Foster, is already delivering on this. What we need to | :50:18. | :50:26. | |
do... The DUP has blocked it. Through the chair. Anna Lo? Just to | :50:27. | :50:36. | |
follow up about that the buckle in December of two different ministers | :50:37. | :50:39. | |
going to court because they could not agree on how to spend both lots | :50:40. | :50:45. | |
of money. One part is for single farm payments by their partner that | :50:46. | :50:49. | |
can be transferred. To help with protecting the environment. -- but | :50:50. | :51:02. | |
part of that. Simon Hamilton scuppered that amount of money. We | :51:03. | :51:07. | |
had flexibility to move from the single farm payment to that | :51:08. | :51:12. | |
agri-food scheme, to help with infrastructure and new developments | :51:13. | :51:17. | |
and research. This is a movement happening in other countries? In | :51:18. | :51:22. | |
other parts of the UK, England, 90% transfer. 14% from Scotland, 12% | :51:23. | :51:31. | |
from Wales. We are getting into too much detail! I want you to respond | :51:32. | :51:37. | |
to the question, do you think that this money would come to farmers if | :51:38. | :51:45. | |
we left the EU? Absolutely not. It is crazy to think that. The same | :51:46. | :51:51. | |
Alliance Party wanted us to join the euro. That shows us the value of | :51:52. | :52:00. | |
their judgement. The last, from Jim Allister is strange, on one hand... | :52:01. | :52:07. | |
You also wanted us to join the EU! Do not trust London when it comes to | :52:08. | :52:14. | |
on the run prisoners but trust them with agriculture payments. You | :52:15. | :52:19. | |
cannot have this both ways. What would happen if there was withdrawal | :52:20. | :52:25. | |
from the European Union for the farmers? You can draw a conclusion | :52:26. | :52:29. | |
about what Londoners saying, too many welfare claimants, sink | :52:30. | :52:34. | |
awesome. That is what they would say here. -- sink or swim. There can be | :52:35. | :52:43. | |
no doubt, why? Many reasons but not least because the profile of the | :52:44. | :52:45. | |
farming industry here is very different from what it is in many | :52:46. | :52:50. | |
parts of Britain because we have 25,000 farmers here and they farm a | :52:51. | :52:56. | |
greater percentage of the land and so on. Jim Allister is also wrong. | :52:57. | :53:02. | |
He is a encounter. He measures what is paid over to Europe and what | :53:03. | :53:07. | |
comes back in European payments. It happens to be our own money. What he | :53:08. | :53:13. | |
completely ignores is what the CBI says and what it says is that the | :53:14. | :53:20. | |
GDP boost to Britain and Northern Ireland from membership of the | :53:21. | :53:25. | |
European Union, to use their word, towards the membership fee. Why? -- | :53:26. | :53:33. | |
dwarfs. When you look at these export opportunities here and in | :53:34. | :53:39. | |
Britain into the EU, the average benefit to any citizen in these | :53:40. | :53:44. | |
parts of the world is over ?1200 every year. And the average net | :53:45. | :53:50. | |
payment by those citizens into the European Treasury is... Lady in the | :53:51. | :53:58. | |
front row? It is great to see that even the -- even if you disagree, | :53:59. | :54:03. | |
you support farmers. I am involved in the anti-fracking campaign and | :54:04. | :54:07. | |
farmers in Australia and America and Canada are crying out for help to | :54:08. | :54:13. | |
keep fracking away from farmland. I am hoping you will stand with us. We | :54:14. | :54:19. | |
will have no special lobbying! What are your views? I would not be sure | :54:20. | :54:26. | |
that the government would back the farming sector as well as it is at | :54:27. | :54:30. | |
present because of the income from the single farm payment and that | :54:31. | :54:34. | |
needs to be in place if you want cheap, safe food. Question number | :54:35. | :54:40. | |
four, from Gareth Brown, a public affairs manager from Randalstown. | :54:41. | :54:45. | |
Does the panel believe that the membership of the EU is important | :54:46. | :54:49. | |
for Northern Ireland and germs of dealing with difficult issues of the | :54:50. | :54:52. | |
past? And if so, could be explained by? -- could they explain why. Money | :54:53. | :55:06. | |
that was supposed to reconcile communities and contribute to shared | :55:07. | :55:10. | |
society, Alex Attwood? The answer is yes. Europe helps in so many ways, | :55:11. | :55:16. | |
some of which we do not recognise. Through the piece money, over the | :55:17. | :55:22. | |
last number of years. And there will be another in place by the end of | :55:23. | :55:27. | |
this year and into next year. We need to speed up the process because | :55:28. | :55:31. | |
lots of organisations are in jeopardy. -- peace. It also helps | :55:32. | :55:41. | |
because they have created a rights -based approach to society and | :55:42. | :55:45. | |
public policy. If there is anything we can learn from those years of | :55:46. | :55:50. | |
terror and conflict in the society, it is that when we deny rights, you | :55:51. | :55:57. | |
create instability. Therefore, this approach in the European Union and | :55:58. | :56:01. | |
across Europe generally, not least with the European Convention, is a | :56:02. | :56:05. | |
mechanism to inform us about how we should conduct politics and society | :56:06. | :56:12. | |
in the future and also, Europe has demonstrated and the world has | :56:13. | :56:16. | |
demonstrated that through international justice mechanisms, | :56:17. | :56:19. | |
you should not deny citizens and countries the rights of justice for | :56:20. | :56:24. | |
those who have suffered at the hands of those who have been involved in | :56:25. | :56:28. | |
conflict. If you look at this across the funding mechanism, justice and | :56:29. | :56:34. | |
that rights -based approach, Europe has much to teach us but, | :56:35. | :56:37. | |
critically, we must learn from that by having an approach to the past | :56:38. | :56:42. | |
and stealing without immediately. Anna Lo? We have not been able to | :56:43. | :56:50. | |
agree amongst ourselves and the EU would, I am sure, you have us a hand | :56:51. | :56:58. | |
and help us. The peace money came since 1995 and we have got 2 billion | :56:59. | :57:05. | |
euros out of this. I would hope in the next round, we would have 140 | :57:06. | :57:10. | |
million going towards building a shared future. Specifically, | :57:11. | :57:17. | |
building community relations, having more shared spaces and shared | :57:18. | :57:20. | |
housing and integrated education for all of us to learn to live and go up | :57:21. | :57:32. | |
with our children to learn together. I think that Europe has done a lot | :57:33. | :57:37. | |
in keeping the peace since the last world war, World War II. And it has | :57:38. | :57:43. | |
helped in breaking down barriers between member states as well. I | :57:44. | :57:48. | |
think we can learn a lot from them but we can contribute a lot also, in | :57:49. | :57:53. | |
the Assembly there is great recognition that we have done well | :57:54. | :58:00. | |
in the peace process. We can have opportunities with other member | :58:01. | :58:06. | |
states to share learning. And we have received so much political | :58:07. | :58:09. | |
support and money from people and I think there is a moral obligation | :58:10. | :58:13. | |
for us to share that experience with others as well. And it is ?2 billion | :58:14. | :58:24. | |
since 1995. European money would have gone to support the Maze prison | :58:25. | :58:32. | |
project? What has happened to that? It has been redistributed and | :58:33. | :58:36. | |
firstly, can I say that peace funding... Let me... It has been | :58:37. | :58:42. | |
redistributed to a range of projects, one of which is the shared | :58:43. | :58:48. | |
site at the leisure centre in Newtownabbey, over ?4 million. | :58:49. | :58:52. | |
Communities will access and benefit from that. I am very happy to have | :58:53. | :58:57. | |
helped the council and communities are to actually access that. That is | :58:58. | :59:05. | |
a very important issue. Piece money has been important for Northern | :59:06. | :59:11. | |
Ireland. -- peace. The part will be around ?240 million. And I have | :59:12. | :59:16. | |
clearly said that I would like to see funding directed at young people | :59:17. | :59:22. | |
and those who are in danger of being drawn back into violence and I would | :59:23. | :59:25. | |
like us to really direct that, in giving young people a stake in | :59:26. | :59:30. | |
society and the future in Northern Ireland going forward. Yes, funding | :59:31. | :59:35. | |
has been important for Northern Ireland. Can the EU make peace in | :59:36. | :59:41. | |
Northern Ireland? No, fundamentally, peace in Northern Ireland will be | :59:42. | :59:47. | |
made here. And that will be based on truth and justice. And I do a lot of | :59:48. | :59:51. | |
work with the innocent victims of terrorism, both in the European | :59:52. | :59:55. | |
Parliament and in Northern Ireland, and they tell me that going forward, | :59:56. | :00:03. | |
we need to see truth and justice. And the prospect of justice for each | :00:04. | :00:08. | |
and every one of them as they go forward. And that is where it is | :00:09. | :00:12. | |
important. We can start this process. We can start it. I actually | :00:13. | :00:20. | |
looking at some of the issues that are important to give victims. One | :00:21. | :00:23. | |
of the issues that Israeli important is the issue of a definition of | :00:24. | :00:29. | |
victim. You know, we have... As you say jurp can't help us with -- | :00:30. | :00:34. | |
Europe can't help us with that? We need a definition of a victim that | :00:35. | :00:37. | |
excludes the perpetrators of violence and I invite those parties | :00:38. | :00:44. | |
here, particularly the SDLP to join with us. | :00:45. | :00:48. | |
APPLAUSE What is your party's view on peace | :00:49. | :00:54. | |
money being used to redevelop the Mazi site and what -- Maze and what | :00:55. | :01:04. | |
are your feelings on a shrine to terrorism being built there? The | :01:05. | :01:09. | |
lady there? The only comment I have to make is to the parties regarding | :01:10. | :01:12. | |
funding coming out of Europe. It seems to be directed at innovative | :01:13. | :01:17. | |
projects which seem to have a time limit. There is a lot of good work | :01:18. | :01:19. | |
going on within the communities at present time for all sorts of | :01:20. | :01:25. | |
issues, be it victims, or whatever, with this money coming to us, | :01:26. | :01:32. | |
hopefully in 2014/2015, can the MEPs give us any guarantees that there | :01:33. | :01:37. | |
could be funding to sustain current projects because the projects we | :01:38. | :01:44. | |
have seem to die at a specific time? Jim Allister, it wasn't Europe's | :01:45. | :01:52. | |
fault Jim Allister that the Maze project collapsed. President Barroso | :01:53. | :01:58. | |
said he was impressed by Northern Ireland for developing a centre for | :01:59. | :02:06. | |
conflict resolution The Maze project typified the folly to go down that | :02:07. | :02:13. | |
road and what stopped the waste of ?20 million on the Maze project was | :02:14. | :02:20. | |
not the mighty DUP, what stopped the waste of that money was an uprising | :02:21. | :02:27. | |
of innocent victims who saw... APPLAUSE | :02:28. | :02:30. | |
Who saw that project for what it was, a glorification of the | :02:31. | :02:36. | |
victim-makers and sadly for five years, Mrs Dodds in Brussels never | :02:37. | :02:41. | |
spoke out about the Maze project, she stuck with the party line to | :02:42. | :02:47. | |
deliver the Sinn Fein agenda at the Maze and it took the innocent | :02:48. | :02:53. | |
victims to force the DUP U-turn on the Maze and I'm glad this party | :02:54. | :02:59. | |
played some small part in doing it. Martina Anderson? Our peace process | :03:00. | :03:03. | |
shines like a beacon light and gives a lot of hope to a lot of areas that | :03:04. | :03:12. | |
are trying to emerge from conflict. And Europe supports the Good Friday | :03:13. | :03:16. | |
agreement. And I think it is crucially important that we look at | :03:17. | :03:19. | |
the opportunities that the peace funding has brought here. 22,000 | :03:20. | :03:28. | |
projects. 900,000 participants and as you have mentioned, there has | :03:29. | :03:33. | |
been sterling work which has been done in communities across the two | :03:34. | :03:38. | |
traditions here in the north and in the border corridors. I think we | :03:39. | :03:44. | |
need to look at the opportunities that we have to give something to | :03:45. | :03:50. | |
Europe in terms of hope and also for us to be able to get from Europe, | :03:51. | :03:55. | |
not just in terms of funding, but the peace centre in the Kerb would | :03:56. | :04:03. | |
have been -- Kesh would have been such a statement beyond Ireland to | :04:04. | :04:08. | |
peek who were trying to -- people who were trying to emerge from | :04:09. | :04:13. | |
conflict. Conflict is a terrible thing. It is how we are able to get | :04:14. | :04:17. | |
out of it and we were able to use that funding for that benefit. | :04:18. | :04:27. | |
APPLAUSE Can I go now? Yes, please. I was | :04:28. | :04:38. | |
involved in this from Peace One. On many occasion, there has been plenty | :04:39. | :04:42. | |
troubles on the way and it is far from perfect, but it did make a | :04:43. | :04:46. | |
valuable contribution in the early years to the two communities in | :04:47. | :04:51. | |
Northern Ireland. And I have to say, you know, many people say to me in | :04:52. | :04:59. | |
Brussels, that was 1994 when Ian Paisley and John Hume and I went | :05:00. | :05:09. | |
through the door. 20 years ago since that first peace one was formed. | :05:10. | :05:17. | |
Many people I know in Brussels say to me, "Jim, how long does it take | :05:18. | :05:19. | |
you to make peace in Northern Ireland?" We know the many problems | :05:20. | :05:25. | |
we have here, but Europe has been very good in that it has tried to | :05:26. | :05:33. | |
always stay above on many, many occasions the differences and the | :05:34. | :05:36. | |
disagreements that we have. But I have to say, where I agree with Jim, | :05:37. | :05:41. | |
because Jim was the MEP at the when he and I were locked out of any | :05:42. | :05:45. | |
discussions taking place at that time. We were not part of and for | :05:46. | :05:48. | |
the first time in all the time thave been an MEP that we were not part or | :05:49. | :05:55. | |
contributing to the Barroso taskforce. Even though we told them | :05:56. | :06:00. | |
that wouldn't happen... We're going to have to take a couple of | :06:01. | :06:02. | |
questions from the floor and then we've got to move on. We have no | :06:03. | :06:10. | |
time left. The January Ja gentleman in the black shirt. I'm assuming Jim | :06:11. | :06:16. | |
and Diane are talking about victim makers and terrorism and talking | :06:17. | :06:27. | |
about a collusion and terrorism. I would like to ask the panel what | :06:28. | :06:31. | |
have you and your party done to oppose the IRA shrine at the Maze? | :06:32. | :06:42. | |
Can I answer on two points? No, too many. The DUP said there will be no | :06:43. | :06:46. | |
shrine at the Maze and there will be no shrine at the Maze. It is off the | :06:47. | :06:52. | |
table. Can I say? We're not a one-man band. I don't have to speak | :06:53. | :06:56. | |
on everything... One last question. Time is running out for us. Jim, you | :06:57. | :07:04. | |
are the one-man band. APPLAUSE | :07:05. | :07:09. | |
Chris Jordan. If elected, what will you miss most while in Brussels? | :07:10. | :07:16. | |
Anna, what would you miss? What would I miss here? I wouldn't | :07:17. | :07:21. | |
miss the bickering that's been going on all night. What would I miss? I | :07:22. | :07:26. | |
would miss the nice people here. I would miss the hospitalality and the | :07:27. | :07:32. | |
warmth. My sister is over from Hong Kong and she couldn't get over... | :07:33. | :07:40. | |
How nice we are? Yes. I would miss my wife, my family and my two girls, | :07:41. | :07:43. | |
they are seven and five. I've missed a bit of their lives so far. It | :07:44. | :07:50. | |
won't be easy to miss a bit more. I will miss the people of Northern | :07:51. | :07:54. | |
Ireland on the days I'm over there because the strength and the | :07:55. | :07:56. | |
character and the capacity and the innovation... Flattery! Jim | :07:57. | :08:06. | |
Nicholson, you have practically forgotten Northern Ireland you have | :08:07. | :08:11. | |
been gone so long. Even for you Noel, that's pretty low! I can say a | :08:12. | :08:18. | |
lot of things. I do apologise? Not at all. It goes with the territory. | :08:19. | :08:22. | |
Probably the thing I mist the most is a good plate of Irish stew. | :08:23. | :08:28. | |
Martina Anderson, you have had two years out there, what have -- what | :08:29. | :08:36. | |
do you miss? I miss my mother. My hother has at zim -- mother has | :08:37. | :08:41. | |
Alzheimer's of the there is nothing that brightens up my day when I come | :08:42. | :08:45. | |
back from Europe particularly a journey from Strasbourg and walking | :08:46. | :08:54. | |
in to see my mummy. Jim Allister, what did you miss most? Being apart | :08:55. | :08:59. | |
from family is a sacrifice that everyone makes. Politically, would I | :09:00. | :09:04. | |
miss being a thorn in the flesh of Sinn Fein, DUP in Stormont? Well, | :09:05. | :09:08. | |
happily, well happily I would have someone to be that northern and I -- | :09:09. | :09:13. | |
thorn and I would have a bigger mandate from across the province to | :09:14. | :09:20. | |
add to that thorn. Diane? Well, I would miss the people of Northern | :09:21. | :09:23. | |
Ireland. It is a privilege to represent Northern Ireland in the | :09:24. | :09:26. | |
European Parliament, but most of all, you know, you miss your family | :09:27. | :09:31. | |
and that's very significant and of course, nothing beats coming home to | :09:32. | :09:42. | |
a slice of Wheatan bread. I will give you 40 seconds to sum-up what | :09:43. | :09:48. | |
we have heard today. Who knows, we might find our debate changed views. | :09:49. | :09:54. | |
Martina Anderson. Well, if you are against austerity and want | :09:55. | :09:56. | |
leadership and you want someone that's going to stand up for you, | :09:57. | :09:59. | |
you want someone who is going to stand up against cuts and make sure | :10:00. | :10:05. | |
that we get and maximise the opportunities in Europe. If you want | :10:06. | :10:10. | |
team Sinn Fein, then you should vote for Sinn Fein councillors and myself | :10:11. | :10:14. | |
throughout Ireland and particularly here in the north. | :10:15. | :10:22. | |
Diane Dodds? APPLAUSE | :10:23. | :10:24. | |
This Thursday I'm asking you for a mandate to continue to represent | :10:25. | :10:29. | |
Northern Ireland in Europe. While the Unionist candidates agree on | :10:30. | :10:33. | |
many issues, the reality is that only one, the DUP, has the ability | :10:34. | :10:39. | |
to deliver. While some others just carp and criticise and have nothing | :10:40. | :10:43. | |
positive to offer, we are the party that stands up for Northern Ireland. | :10:44. | :10:52. | |
Division weakens Unionism. Splits votes mean lost power and influence. | :10:53. | :10:56. | |
I want to get the best deal for Northern Ireland and that's why on | :10:57. | :10:59. | |
Thursday, I'm asking you to vote to strengthen unionism and our voice in | :11:00. | :11:03. | |
the European Parliament. So I'm asking you to vote number one, DUP | :11:04. | :11:10. | |
and then transfer. Thank you very much indeed. Jim Nicholson? Thank | :11:11. | :11:17. | |
you, Noel. Can I thank the audience? I began this debate by saying Europe | :11:18. | :11:22. | |
needs to get real. And from what we've been saying, there is no doubt | :11:23. | :11:27. | |
about that and we have seen here tonight that it is obvious to all of | :11:28. | :11:30. | |
us that some of the candidates also need a reality check as well. We | :11:31. | :11:37. | |
must not take local differences we have witnessed here to Europe | :11:38. | :11:41. | |
because they will not understand our argument. I will not politicise | :11:42. | :11:49. | |
agriculture. I will stop the EU's to destroy o jobs and I will not lead | :11:50. | :11:52. | |
Northern Ireland over a cliff edge. I will continue to do what I have | :11:53. | :11:57. | |
done for 25 years and that's to proudly work on behalf of everyone | :11:58. | :12:00. | |
in Northern Ireland. Thank you very much indeed. Alex Attwood? Well, | :12:01. | :12:08. | |
thank you Noel and I thank the audience. I think this debate, I | :12:09. | :12:11. | |
think the politics of the last number of months and years | :12:12. | :12:17. | |
demonstrates that we have to move Northern Ireland in a hopeful and | :12:18. | :12:21. | |
bold direction. That we cannot continue to let people down. As I | :12:22. | :12:27. | |
said earlier, all of that happens or doesn't happen if people vote or | :12:28. | :12:32. | |
they do not vote. I have said all along in this election campaign that | :12:33. | :12:37. | |
this is no ordinary election and a poll and the papers are now saying | :12:38. | :12:43. | |
that there can be no ordinary outcome. That's powerful your votes | :12:44. | :12:49. | |
tonight are. That's why I ask you to vote for me. | :12:50. | :12:53. | |
Jim Allister. Over the years many unionist and democrats in Northern | :12:54. | :12:56. | |
Ireland feel they have been robbed of things that matter to them. We've | :12:57. | :13:00. | |
reached the stage where you can't even vote a party out of Government. | :13:01. | :13:04. | |
You are not allowed to change your Government and you are in the | :13:05. | :13:07. | |
allowed to have an opposition. Well, the one thing that can't be taken | :13:08. | :13:11. | |
from you is your vote. That is your secret weapon. So come out on | :13:12. | :13:17. | |
Thursday. Let's shake things up. Let's vote TUV to make a difference | :13:18. | :13:22. | |
on all these issues. Do not be distracted by the self serving | :13:23. | :13:27. | |
nonsense about splitting the vote. You cannot split a vote in a PR | :13:28. | :13:35. | |
election providing you use your transfers within the unionist family | :13:36. | :13:39. | |
and that's what everyone should do. Anna Lo? Yes, on Thursday you have | :13:40. | :13:45. | |
the opportunity to step forward, to make changes. If you don't want the | :13:46. | :13:52. | |
us and them old politics, you vote for the Alliance Party. We work for | :13:53. | :13:59. | |
everyone. We can present a new modern progressive and inclusive | :14:00. | :14:05. | |
image of Northern Ireland to Europe, to the world. I am ambitious for | :14:06. | :14:11. | |
Northern Ireland. I am ambitious, I will be very active in Europe to | :14:12. | :14:16. | |
work for everyone. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you very | :14:17. | :14:19. | |
much indeed. There are four other candidates running in the European | :14:20. | :14:25. | |
election. Ross Brown of the Green Party, ma Tina McKenzie. There will | :14:26. | :14:32. | |
be a report on their response on Talk Back tomorrow and on BBC | :14:33. | :14:36. | |
Newsline on BBC One. A full list of candidates is on the BBC's election | :14:37. | :14:42. | |
website. The result of the euro polls should be known on Monday | :14:43. | :14:47. | |
afternoon. May the best teams win. Thank you to our candidates and to | :14:48. | :14:50. | |
our studio audience and to you at home for watching. Goodbye. | :14:51. | :14:54. | |
APPLAUSE with candidates standing in our 11 | :14:55. | :15:17. | |
new council districts, and it's time for you to choose who will be | :15:18. | :15:22. | |
our representatives in Europe. BBC News NI will bring you | :15:23. | :15:26. | |
the results as they come in, with live coverage | :15:27. | :15:29. | |
from all the count centres. We'll have reaction, | :15:30. | :15:31. | |
expert analysis, and, of course, a chance for you | :15:32. | :15:34. | |
to have your say across TV, | :15:35. | :15:38. |