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For people from ethnic minority backgrounds | 0:00:03 | 0:00:09 | |
this has been a long, uncomfortable summer. | 0:00:09 | 0:00:11 | |
In the last five months, there have been more racial offences | 0:00:11 | 0:00:13 | |
in Northern Ireland than there were for the whole of last year. | 0:00:13 | 0:00:16 | |
Racial attacks aren?t just increasing. | 0:00:16 | 0:00:18 | |
They are rocketing to levels that are taking the authorities | 0:00:18 | 0:00:20 | |
by surprise. | 0:00:20 | 0:00:23 | |
No matter how you look at these figures they are deeply | 0:00:23 | 0:00:26 | |
worrying, there is a deep sense of intolerance throughout | 0:00:26 | 0:00:28 | |
the city that has to be addressed. | 0:00:28 | 0:00:30 | |
Some victims have been high-profile. | 0:00:30 | 0:00:38 | |
I am only human. When people make comments like that, | 0:00:38 | 0:00:40 | |
of course it?s offensive, it hurts. | 0:00:40 | 0:00:41 | |
Others have been thrust into the media glare. | 0:00:41 | 0:00:43 | |
But can they expect justice? | 0:00:43 | 0:00:46 | |
Tonight on Spotlight, we investigate why it is that against a huge rise | 0:00:46 | 0:00:49 | |
in racist offences, we don?t appear to be punishing perpetrators for the | 0:00:49 | 0:00:52 | |
racist elements of their crimes. | 0:00:52 | 0:00:59 | |
There is not a single racist attack where the sentence was increased | 0:00:59 | 0:01:02 | |
that you can give me an example of. | 0:01:02 | 0:01:04 | |
Well, I think that, we certainly have one example. | 0:01:04 | 0:01:06 | |
One though. | 0:01:06 | 0:01:09 | |
Yes. | 0:01:09 | 0:01:12 | |
The Belfast Mela. | 0:01:24 | 0:01:27 | |
Over the last few years it?s become a celebration of a new diversity | 0:01:27 | 0:01:30 | |
in Northern Ireland. | 0:01:30 | 0:01:32 | |
Today, 25,000 people have turned out to celebrate the many cultures | 0:01:32 | 0:01:35 | |
that now call this place home. | 0:01:35 | 0:01:40 | |
Its founder and organiser is Nisha Tandon, | 0:01:40 | 0:01:43 | |
This is a very different image of Belfast than we?ve seen over | 0:01:43 | 0:01:47 | |
the summer where we?ve seen some pretty high profile racist attacks. | 0:01:47 | 0:01:53 | |
Yes, that?s right, and it just makes your heart break | 0:01:53 | 0:01:55 | |
when you see that there are some positive things going on today and | 0:01:55 | 0:01:58 | |
there are just these small elements who try to not sort of embrace any | 0:01:58 | 0:02:03 | |
other culture living beside them. | 0:02:03 | 0:02:07 | |
Over the last four months, the number of racist incidents recorded | 0:02:07 | 0:02:10 | |
by police has increased massively. | 0:02:10 | 0:02:13 | |
And Nisha Tandon recently said she would consider leaving | 0:02:13 | 0:02:16 | |
Northern Ireland because of a growing climate of racism. | 0:02:16 | 0:02:20 | |
Have you had any racial incidents happen to you? | 0:02:20 | 0:02:24 | |
Recently there was an incident and that was I was carrying these two | 0:02:24 | 0:02:29 | |
bags to go home and there were these two young people who just said you | 0:02:29 | 0:02:33 | |
need to go home and I said, listen, I am going home and he said, but | 0:02:33 | 0:02:37 | |
that?s a long flight and I said, it?s not a long flight, | 0:02:37 | 0:02:40 | |
it?s just round the corner. | 0:02:40 | 0:02:48 | |
How did you feel when these two young men... You have | 0:02:48 | 0:02:51 | |
been living in Northern Ireland for longer than they have been alive, | 0:02:51 | 0:02:54 | |
and they?re telling you to go home. | 0:02:54 | 0:02:55 | |
How does that make you feel? | 0:02:55 | 0:02:58 | |
I just feel they need to be taught, they need to be given that... | 0:02:58 | 0:03:06 | |
If you are black, brown, yellow, it doesn?t really make any difference. | 0:03:06 | 0:03:08 | |
But to some people, it clearly does. | 0:03:08 | 0:03:12 | |
These are the statistics for this summer given to us by the police. | 0:03:12 | 0:03:15 | |
And they show that in the last five months alone there have been more | 0:03:15 | 0:03:18 | |
racist offences recorded in Northern Ireland than over | 0:03:18 | 0:03:21 | |
the whole of the previous year. | 0:03:21 | 0:03:23 | |
A lot more. | 0:03:23 | 0:03:26 | |
You went to a hostel. | 0:03:26 | 0:03:27 | |
A hostel, yeah. | 0:03:27 | 0:03:28 | |
Because the police couldn?t guarantee | 0:03:28 | 0:03:34 | |
your safety in East Belfast. | 0:03:34 | 0:03:35 | |
Yeah. | 0:03:35 | 0:03:37 | |
Since April there have been 431 racial offences recorded by | 0:03:37 | 0:03:39 | |
the police across Northern Ireland. | 0:03:39 | 0:03:41 | |
Over the whole of the previous year there were 263. | 0:03:41 | 0:03:43 | |
That?s already an increase of 64% on last year. | 0:03:43 | 0:03:47 | |
And when you look at what?s happening in certain parts | 0:03:47 | 0:03:50 | |
of Belfast, the picture is even more worrying. | 0:03:50 | 0:03:53 | |
And much of the rise across Northern Ireland seems to be driven by what?s | 0:03:53 | 0:03:57 | |
happening in parts of the capital. | 0:03:57 | 0:04:00 | |
The new hotspot for racial offences is north Belfast, where this summer | 0:04:00 | 0:04:04 | |
there has been a staggering 276% rise in racially-motivated offences | 0:04:04 | 0:04:09 | |
recorded by the police. | 0:04:09 | 0:04:13 | |
East Belfast has traditionally been seen as a problem area | 0:04:13 | 0:04:17 | |
for race attacks, and there has been an increase there | 0:04:17 | 0:04:19 | |
of 134% since last year. | 0:04:19 | 0:04:23 | |
And this isn?t just a problem in loyalist areas. | 0:04:23 | 0:04:27 | |
West Belfast has also seen a big jump in racial offences, of 110%. | 0:04:27 | 0:04:32 | |
South Belfast saw the smallest increase, but it was | 0:04:32 | 0:04:36 | |
still significant, at 24%. | 0:04:36 | 0:04:39 | |
Assistant Chief Constable Will Kerr is in charge of the police operation | 0:04:39 | 0:04:42 | |
to clamp down on racist incidents. | 0:04:42 | 0:04:47 | |
No matter how you look at these figures they are deeply | 0:04:47 | 0:04:50 | |
worrying, there is a deep sense of intolerance throughout | 0:04:50 | 0:04:52 | |
the city that has to be addressed. | 0:04:52 | 0:04:53 | |
And what is behind this? | 0:04:53 | 0:04:55 | |
Some communities perceive there is a loss of single identity. | 0:04:55 | 0:04:57 | |
Some a displacement of political or social concerns | 0:04:57 | 0:04:59 | |
particularly housing. | 0:04:59 | 0:05:03 | |
Some is just about thuggery and control of a local area. | 0:05:03 | 0:05:06 | |
The summer got off to a tempestuous start. | 0:05:07 | 0:05:10 | |
Pastor James McConnell of the Whitewell metropolitan | 0:05:10 | 0:05:15 | |
Tabernacle made a highly controversial speech about Islam. | 0:05:15 | 0:05:18 | |
Islam is heathen. | 0:05:18 | 0:05:21 | |
Islam is Satanic. | 0:05:21 | 0:05:24 | |
Islam is a doctrine spawned in hell. | 0:05:24 | 0:05:28 | |
Amidst the criticism, the First Minister Peter Robinson | 0:05:28 | 0:05:31 | |
decided to defend Pastor McConnell. | 0:05:31 | 0:05:36 | |
I wouldn?t trust Muslims who are bombing and shooting. | 0:05:36 | 0:05:38 | |
However, there are many of the normal daily | 0:05:38 | 0:05:42 | |
activities of life that I would have no difficulty in trusting a Muslim | 0:05:42 | 0:05:45 | |
to do, to go down to the shop for me, to give me the right change. | 0:05:45 | 0:05:49 | |
Both Pastor McConnell and Peter Robinson later clarified their | 0:05:49 | 0:05:51 | |
comments, and apologised to Muslims. | 0:05:51 | 0:05:56 | |
But to Alliance MLA Anna Lo, the damage had been done. | 0:05:56 | 0:05:59 | |
She threatened to leave Northern Ireland because she felt | 0:05:59 | 0:06:03 | |
the lack of political leadership on hate crime, which she herself | 0:06:03 | 0:06:07 | |
was experiencing, made it a cold house for ethnic minorities. | 0:06:07 | 0:06:12 | |
I do feel vulnerable, walking on the street, because I | 0:06:12 | 0:06:18 | |
know ethnic minorities... I know that ethnic minorities have | 0:06:18 | 0:06:23 | |
been attacked and I know that when I feel vulnerable that when I walk on | 0:06:23 | 0:06:26 | |
the street that I may be attacked. | 0:06:26 | 0:06:30 | |
For Anna Lo, the defence of Pastor McConnell | 0:06:30 | 0:06:32 | |
by high-profile political leaders gave a disturbing insight into | 0:06:32 | 0:06:35 | |
public life in Northern Ireland. | 0:06:35 | 0:06:39 | |
For Peter Robinson to come out in defence | 0:06:50 | 0:06:52 | |
of the preacher McConnell, that would not have happened in | 0:06:52 | 0:06:54 | |
other political parties in the UK. | 0:06:54 | 0:06:56 | |
Anybody who is associated with his comments, I think would have seen | 0:06:56 | 0:07:00 | |
a public outcry, or their own party disowning them and they would be out | 0:07:00 | 0:07:08 | |
of politics. | 0:07:08 | 0:07:11 | |
In early June there was another high-profile incident. | 0:07:11 | 0:07:12 | |
A Nigerian man, Michael Abiona, was prevented from moving | 0:07:12 | 0:07:18 | |
into a housing executive bungalow in Glenluce Drive in East Belfast | 0:07:18 | 0:07:20 | |
by a group of protestors who stood outside with banners calling | 0:07:20 | 0:07:23 | |
for local houses for local people. | 0:07:23 | 0:07:27 | |
Michael Abiona believes that the incident was racist. | 0:07:27 | 0:07:31 | |
Actions speak louder than words. | 0:07:31 | 0:07:34 | |
So if it had been a white man that had gone in I am quite sure | 0:07:34 | 0:07:38 | |
they would not have done that. | 0:07:38 | 0:07:39 | |
The case prompted another intervention by Peter Robinson. | 0:07:39 | 0:07:42 | |
This time he said that he believed that the case wasn?t necessarily | 0:07:42 | 0:07:45 | |
racist, but more likely a local housing dispute. | 0:07:45 | 0:07:52 | |
The First Minister has his own opinion, it was the way he felt, but | 0:07:52 | 0:07:55 | |
I believe the majority who either listen or hear about the story | 0:07:55 | 0:08:04 | |
didn?t feel the way he felt. | 0:08:04 | 0:08:07 | |
Once again, Peter Robinson went on to | 0:08:07 | 0:08:09 | |
clarify his remarks, acknowledging that what happened was being treated | 0:08:09 | 0:08:11 | |
as a hate incident by the PSNI. | 0:08:11 | 0:08:13 | |
I think the police will judge whether it was intimidation or | 0:08:13 | 0:08:16 | |
whether it was peaceful protest. | 0:08:16 | 0:08:18 | |
Dr Robbie McVeigh has written two major reports into racism | 0:08:18 | 0:08:20 | |
in Northern Ireland. | 0:08:20 | 0:08:23 | |
He feels that the First Minister?s interventions showed a lack of | 0:08:23 | 0:08:26 | |
understanding of how victims feel. | 0:08:26 | 0:08:30 | |
The bottom line should be that he should be listening to how difficult | 0:08:30 | 0:08:36 | |
it is to be a black and minority ethnic person in this country | 0:08:36 | 0:08:39 | |
and responding to that, rather than deciding that he can make a decision | 0:08:39 | 0:08:43 | |
around whether what a minister says or local resident says is racist, | 0:08:43 | 0:08:46 | |
that?s the wrong way to do it. | 0:08:46 | 0:08:47 | |
We asked Peter Robinson for an interview for this programme. | 0:08:47 | 0:08:49 | |
He declined. | 0:08:49 | 0:08:52 | |
So did the deputy First Minister, Martin McGuinness. | 0:08:52 | 0:08:55 | |
They did send us a joint statement, which said, we unreservedly condemn | 0:08:55 | 0:08:58 | |
race hate crimes and all forms of intimidation. | 0:08:58 | 0:09:03 | |
It is in all our interests that people from | 0:09:03 | 0:09:08 | |
minority ethnic backgrounds have a sense of belonging and know that | 0:09:08 | 0:09:10 | |
their place in society is valued. | 0:09:10 | 0:09:12 | |
By working together we can ensure all people | 0:09:12 | 0:09:15 | |
in our community are treated fairly and show we welcome the diversity | 0:09:15 | 0:09:19 | |
which enhances all our lives. | 0:09:19 | 0:09:23 | |
The big question posed by a summer of spiralling race hate | 0:09:23 | 0:09:28 | |
incidents, is how prepared we are in Northern Ireland to support | 0:09:28 | 0:09:30 | |
the victims of those incidents. | 0:09:30 | 0:09:32 | |
And not just politically. | 0:09:32 | 0:09:35 | |
There are also major questions over how our criminal justice system | 0:09:35 | 0:09:39 | |
processes offences which victims believe to be racially-motivated. | 0:09:39 | 0:09:46 | |
It?s early morning near Royal Avenue in the heart of the city. | 0:09:50 | 0:09:53 | |
This is Musa Gulusen. | 0:09:53 | 0:09:56 | |
And this is his daily ritual. | 0:09:56 | 0:09:58 | |
Every morning Musa sets up his stall where he sells everything | 0:09:58 | 0:10:01 | |
from loom bands to leather belts. | 0:10:01 | 0:10:10 | |
You build this every morning. | 0:10:10 | 0:10:19 | |
Every morning, this is my job. | 0:10:19 | 0:10:24 | |
So do you have a license to operate here? | 0:10:24 | 0:10:30 | |
Yeah, I have a license and every month I pay ?188. | 0:10:30 | 0:10:38 | |
And how long have you had a stall on Royal Avenue? | 0:10:38 | 0:10:40 | |
About 20 years. | 0:10:40 | 0:10:42 | |
Musa says the vast majority of people he interacts with on a daily | 0:10:42 | 0:10:45 | |
basis, from customers to passers-by, are pleasant and supportive of him. | 0:10:45 | 0:10:47 | |
But not everyone. | 0:10:47 | 0:10:48 | |
Say, on an average day, do you have people saying racist things to you? | 0:10:48 | 0:10:52 | |
Every day to be honest with you, every day, a couple of times. | 0:10:52 | 0:10:55 | |
Every day. | 0:10:55 | 0:10:55 | |
And what do you mean, people saying things. | 0:10:55 | 0:11:00 | |
People say like Taxi and walk away but I am laughing, I am laughing. | 0:11:00 | 0:11:04 | |
And sometimes it gets more serious than name calling. | 0:11:04 | 0:11:14 | |
On the 11th June this year, Musa was attacked and robbed. | 0:11:14 | 0:11:17 | |
The initial attack happened here at his stall in full view | 0:11:17 | 0:11:20 | |
of horrified shoppers. | 0:11:20 | 0:11:22 | |
Musa says the attackers allegedly stole ?120 and left him | 0:11:22 | 0:11:24 | |
with bruises and a broken wrist. | 0:11:24 | 0:11:26 | |
And they broke your arm? | 0:11:26 | 0:11:28 | |
Broke my arms, yes. | 0:11:28 | 0:11:30 | |
I see you have still got the...? | 0:11:30 | 0:11:32 | |
Yup. | 0:11:32 | 0:11:34 | |
Obviously that is very serious, has it ever happened before? | 0:11:34 | 0:11:36 | |
Once before yes, about three years ago, | 0:11:36 | 0:11:38 | |
it is the physical attacks and again Christmas time, not last Christmas, | 0:11:38 | 0:11:41 | |
last Christmas before again. | 0:11:41 | 0:11:49 | |
I mean, Musa, that is starting to sound like it's | 0:11:49 | 0:11:51 | |
happening on a regular basis. | 0:11:51 | 0:11:54 | |
I know, but that is just eejit people. | 0:11:54 | 0:11:56 | |
Why do you believe that it was a racial attack? | 0:11:56 | 0:11:59 | |
Because they called me straight to my face, "Taxi bustard". | 0:11:59 | 0:12:04 | |
I don't know him, he doesn't know me. | 0:12:04 | 0:12:06 | |
The police are currently investigating Musa's case. | 0:12:06 | 0:12:10 | |
We made two arrests at the time and obviously | 0:12:10 | 0:12:12 | |
as with all these cases, we have got to gather the evidence, present it | 0:12:12 | 0:12:15 | |
to the Public Prosecution Service. | 0:12:15 | 0:12:18 | |
It will be up to the Public Prosecution Service to decide | 0:12:18 | 0:12:21 | |
if there is enough evidence in Musa's case to prove that it was | 0:12:21 | 0:12:24 | |
in fact a racially motivated crime. | 0:12:24 | 0:12:27 | |
And even if Musa thinks it is, that doesn't mean the criminal justice | 0:12:27 | 0:12:30 | |
system will deal with it that way. | 0:12:30 | 0:12:33 | |
Barra McGrory is the Director of Public Prosecutions. | 0:12:33 | 0:12:35 | |
He says that proving any particular attack is in fact racist, | 0:12:35 | 0:12:38 | |
is not easy. | 0:12:38 | 0:12:42 | |
It's difficult to identify the race element formally | 0:12:42 | 0:12:44 | |
in court because that must be proved to the criminal standard | 0:12:44 | 0:12:47 | |
beyond all reasonable doubt. | 0:12:47 | 0:12:51 | |
That's what the law says, now that brings a significant number | 0:12:51 | 0:12:53 | |
of difficulties. | 0:12:53 | 0:12:56 | |
Jolena Flett has been working with people | 0:12:56 | 0:12:58 | |
from ethnic minority backgrounds in Northern Ireland for a decade. | 0:12:58 | 0:13:01 | |
In that time she's seen many crimes that victims believe to be racist go | 0:13:01 | 0:13:05 | |
through the court system only for the racist element to be dropped. | 0:13:05 | 0:13:11 | |
So we have had cases where people will be the victim of | 0:13:11 | 0:13:14 | |
the racist crime, that they believe has been racially motivated. | 0:13:14 | 0:13:18 | |
If it goes to the courts, it will often be prosecuted | 0:13:18 | 0:13:20 | |
as maybe an assault but without a racial element because that | 0:13:20 | 0:13:23 | |
conviction is easier to secure. | 0:13:23 | 0:13:28 | |
There is no easy opportunity to identify | 0:13:28 | 0:13:30 | |
the race element formally in court. | 0:13:30 | 0:13:32 | |
Surely therefore that is a broken system? | 0:13:32 | 0:13:36 | |
Well it's the law, it's the way it is framed and certainly the policy | 0:13:36 | 0:13:39 | |
makers and law makers on these issues may want to revisit this. | 0:13:39 | 0:13:43 | |
For ethnic minorities living in Northern Ireland, | 0:13:43 | 0:13:45 | |
it's not a new complaint. | 0:13:45 | 0:13:49 | |
In fact, its ten years since one major case | 0:13:49 | 0:13:51 | |
where race was first alleged to be a factor, and then dropped. | 0:13:51 | 0:13:56 | |
Brij Sharma was a popular businessman who ran a shop | 0:13:56 | 0:13:58 | |
on a peaceline in North Belfast. | 0:13:58 | 0:14:02 | |
He had come to Northern Ireland when he was 10 years old. | 0:14:02 | 0:14:06 | |
I consider myself to be Northern Irish. | 0:14:06 | 0:14:08 | |
When it comes to asking me where my home is, this is my home. | 0:14:08 | 0:14:11 | |
The BBC had interviewed him about his life on the front line | 0:14:11 | 0:14:14 | |
of a divided society, when he described how at times, he | 0:14:14 | 0:14:17 | |
would be subjected to racist abuse. | 0:14:17 | 0:14:21 | |
Getting abuse from the ones that you grew up with, especially the ones | 0:14:21 | 0:14:25 | |
you know, that's very hurtful. | 0:14:25 | 0:14:28 | |
In May 2004 Brij Sharma was attacked. | 0:14:28 | 0:14:32 | |
Police witness statements from the time spoke of racial abuse | 0:14:32 | 0:14:34 | |
being hurled during the incident. | 0:14:34 | 0:14:37 | |
Brij Sharma was killed in the attack. | 0:14:37 | 0:14:44 | |
Today, his brother Bharat is the chairman of the | 0:14:44 | 0:14:46 | |
Indian Community centre in Belfast. | 0:14:46 | 0:14:50 | |
He believes that what happened was racially motivated. | 0:14:50 | 0:14:54 | |
Now, at the time and still you are convinced that this was | 0:14:54 | 0:14:57 | |
a racially motivated attack? | 0:14:57 | 0:14:59 | |
Definitely, without a doubt. | 0:14:59 | 0:15:02 | |
But that's not what the criminal justice system said | 0:15:02 | 0:15:06 | |
Yes, but part of the criminal justice system, the PSNI had made | 0:15:06 | 0:15:10 | |
the case and prepared the file for the culprits on a murder | 0:15:10 | 0:15:19 | |
charge, racially motivated murder. | 0:15:19 | 0:15:23 | |
So the police said there was a racial element? | 0:15:23 | 0:15:26 | |
But Brij Sharma had had a previous disagreement with one | 0:15:26 | 0:15:29 | |
of his attackers. | 0:15:29 | 0:15:31 | |
And that was the reason given in court that the case wasn't | 0:15:31 | 0:15:34 | |
prosecuted as a racist incident. | 0:15:34 | 0:15:36 | |
Bharat Sharma feels the racial element was swept under the carpet. | 0:15:36 | 0:15:40 | |
Why are you so confident that it was a racial incident? | 0:15:40 | 0:15:49 | |
The police had told us that there were lots of statements | 0:15:49 | 0:15:51 | |
from the witnesses. These brothers had only one motive. | 0:15:51 | 0:15:56 | |
They, in their shouting and abusing they had said, "we wanted | 0:15:56 | 0:15:58 | |
to teach this Taxi a lesson". | 0:15:58 | 0:16:02 | |
Bharat Sharma now feels like his brother's death could have | 0:16:02 | 0:16:05 | |
been a crucial moment for the prosecution of race-hate | 0:16:05 | 0:16:07 | |
crime in Northern Ireland. | 0:16:07 | 0:16:10 | |
So you felt this could be a watershed moment here in | 0:16:10 | 0:16:12 | |
Northern Ireland for race crime? | 0:16:12 | 0:16:14 | |
Yes. | 0:16:14 | 0:16:16 | |
Especially with the person losing their life. | 0:16:16 | 0:16:19 | |
And we felt so strongly, equally on par to Stephen Lawrence's case. | 0:16:19 | 0:16:28 | |
Stephen Lawrence was murdered in London in 1993 in a racist attack | 0:16:28 | 0:16:32 | |
that was to send shockwaves through the criminal justice system. | 0:16:32 | 0:16:39 | |
A major report, by Sir William MacPherson into the | 0:16:39 | 0:16:41 | |
killing said that the metropolitan police force had mishandled the case | 0:16:41 | 0:16:44 | |
because Stephen Lawrence was black. | 0:16:44 | 0:16:47 | |
The McPherson report led to reforms of the Metropolitan Police, | 0:16:47 | 0:16:50 | |
and the Criminal Justice System in England and Wales. | 0:16:50 | 0:16:55 | |
That's precisely what should have been done here. | 0:16:55 | 0:16:57 | |
It wasn't done. | 0:16:57 | 0:16:59 | |
I would argue that we are still in pre McPherson situation. | 0:16:59 | 0:17:02 | |
We still haven't looked at McPherson and thought what we should do | 0:17:02 | 0:17:05 | |
and change about criminal justice and race in northern Ireland. | 0:17:05 | 0:17:09 | |
In 1998 legislation was introduced in England and Wales | 0:17:09 | 0:17:12 | |
which brought in a new kind of crime - racially-aggravated offences. | 0:17:12 | 0:17:18 | |
Those offences don't exist in Northern Ireland. | 0:17:18 | 0:17:22 | |
But there is legislation which allows perpetrators of crimes | 0:17:22 | 0:17:24 | |
to get a longer sentence if there's a racial element involved. | 0:17:24 | 0:17:29 | |
So, how many times have judges in Northern Ireland actually done that? | 0:17:29 | 0:17:34 | |
Now you might think that information would be easily available. | 0:17:34 | 0:17:37 | |
But it isn't - the Public prosecution Service hadn't published | 0:17:37 | 0:17:40 | |
that information for over two years. | 0:17:40 | 0:17:46 | |
We were finally given the latest statistics from the Public | 0:17:46 | 0:17:49 | |
Prosecution Service an hour and a half before our interview with them. | 0:17:49 | 0:17:53 | |
But there was still a big blind spot in the information. | 0:17:53 | 0:17:57 | |
It told us how many people had been brought to court | 0:17:57 | 0:18:00 | |
for racial offences ? but not how many of them had been convicted. | 0:18:00 | 0:18:10 | |
I have been through these statistics over the last couple of hours, | 0:18:10 | 0:18:15 | |
and I still can't find figures about how many convictions received | 0:18:15 | 0:18:18 | |
enhanced sentences because the crime was racially aggravated. | 0:18:18 | 0:18:21 | |
Yes and you will have difficulty finding that information for this | 0:18:21 | 0:18:23 | |
reason, is that, while the law allows for the prosecution service | 0:18:23 | 0:18:29 | |
to seek an enhanced sentence on the basis of aggravation by hostility to | 0:18:29 | 0:18:35 | |
race, it doesn't require the court to | 0:18:35 | 0:18:37 | |
record which element of the sentence has been increased because of that. | 0:18:37 | 0:18:43 | |
In England and Wales it's easy to work out the conviction rate | 0:18:43 | 0:18:46 | |
for racially-aggravated crimes that make it to court ? the most recent | 0:18:46 | 0:18:49 | |
figures say it's 73%. | 0:18:49 | 0:18:53 | |
But in Northern Ireland, the system doesn't tell us how many times the | 0:18:53 | 0:18:56 | |
racist element has been punished. | 0:18:56 | 0:18:59 | |
So how do we know if it's happening at all? | 0:18:59 | 0:19:02 | |
There is not a single racist attack aggravated by racial hostility where | 0:19:02 | 0:19:06 | |
the sentence was increased that you can give me an example of? | 0:19:06 | 0:19:09 | |
I think... | 0:19:09 | 0:19:10 | |
We certainly have one example where the judge very clearly set out. | 0:19:10 | 0:19:15 | |
One, though. | 0:19:15 | 0:19:17 | |
Yes, when the judge very clearly set out, but that's because, | 0:19:17 | 0:19:20 | |
that's the only case in which the judge identified the element | 0:19:20 | 0:19:23 | |
of the sentence which was increased because of the racial hostility. | 0:19:23 | 0:19:29 | |
The PPS later provided us with details of that one case, | 0:19:29 | 0:19:32 | |
in which a judge said she was giving a higher sentence | 0:19:32 | 0:19:35 | |
for a racially-aggravated crime. | 0:19:35 | 0:19:39 | |
And it turns out it involved a familiar face ? Musa. | 0:19:39 | 0:19:44 | |
On one of the occasions when he was previously attacked, | 0:19:44 | 0:19:46 | |
the offender was given an increased sentence by the judge | 0:19:46 | 0:19:48 | |
because of the racial element. | 0:19:48 | 0:19:52 | |
But it's the only time the PPS can point to where it has happened. | 0:19:52 | 0:19:58 | |
It's clear that in Musa's case, he believes that what happened to | 0:19:58 | 0:20:01 | |
him this time was also a racist attack ? and it's crucial to him | 0:20:01 | 0:20:04 | |
that the system believes it too. | 0:20:04 | 0:20:08 | |
What would you think if this if this crime was processed | 0:20:08 | 0:20:11 | |
as just a regular assault and the charge was not racist? | 0:20:11 | 0:20:29 | |
Yes, I know, I hear that, he was right on the street and he | 0:20:29 | 0:20:32 | |
called me "dirty Taxi bustard". | 0:20:32 | 0:20:33 | |
You know what I mean? | 0:20:33 | 0:20:34 | |
So you know it was a racist hate crime? | 0:20:34 | 0:20:37 | |
Yes, I believe this time. | 0:20:37 | 0:20:38 | |
The criminal justice system is so important to people | 0:20:38 | 0:20:40 | |
of ethnic minorities, and especially people who have been | 0:20:40 | 0:20:42 | |
victims of racist attacks. | 0:20:42 | 0:20:43 | |
It's crucial to them, that they feel these attacks are not | 0:20:43 | 0:20:46 | |
just being dealt with in terms of people receiving some sort | 0:20:46 | 0:20:48 | |
of conviction, but being seen for what they are, racist attacks. | 0:20:48 | 0:20:51 | |
At the moment, we just don't know if that's happening, there is no | 0:20:51 | 0:20:54 | |
evidence that that's happening. | 0:20:54 | 0:20:56 | |
Yes, but we have given you as much material as we have available to us. | 0:20:56 | 0:21:02 | |
The police have to provide us as prosecutors with the evidence. | 0:21:02 | 0:21:04 | |
if we have the evidence, we will prosecute it on that basis. | 0:21:04 | 0:21:14 | |
I can't do any better than that. But why is it possible in England | 0:21:14 | 0:21:17 | |
and Wales and not here to keep that racial element in the case? | 0:21:17 | 0:21:20 | |
I think in part because they are probably ten years | 0:21:20 | 0:21:23 | |
ahead of the curve in terms of practice, in terms of... | 0:21:23 | 0:21:25 | |
Or we are ten years behind. | 0:21:25 | 0:21:27 | |
Ten years behind, exactly, it is a matter of perspective. | 0:21:27 | 0:21:29 | |
And we probably are and that is why we are working hard | 0:21:29 | 0:21:32 | |
with the PPS to try and make sure that we can accelerate or look | 0:21:32 | 0:21:35 | |
at the legislative framework. | 0:21:35 | 0:21:36 | |
Because this is a matter for legislators, for investigators | 0:21:36 | 0:21:38 | |
and for prosecutors together. | 0:21:38 | 0:21:45 | |
After the murder of Stephen Lawrence, the McPherson Report said | 0:21:45 | 0:21:48 | |
that some parts of the criminal justice system in England and Wales | 0:21:48 | 0:21:51 | |
were institutionally racist. | 0:21:51 | 0:21:56 | |
The report defined institutional racism | 0:21:56 | 0:21:57 | |
as the collective failure to provide appropriate or professional support | 0:21:57 | 0:22:02 | |
to a community on the basis of its culture, colour or ethnic origin. | 0:22:02 | 0:22:08 | |
So could that apply in Northern Ireland to a system that | 0:22:08 | 0:22:10 | |
isn't able to count how many racist attacks result in convictions with | 0:22:10 | 0:22:13 | |
longer prison sentences? | 0:22:13 | 0:22:17 | |
The term institutional racism has been used in England | 0:22:17 | 0:22:19 | |
about organisations where there is a collective failure to support one | 0:22:19 | 0:22:22 | |
particular community, or one group. | 0:22:22 | 0:22:25 | |
Do you think that the Public Prosecution Service, | 0:22:25 | 0:22:27 | |
under that definition here is institutionally racist? | 0:22:27 | 0:22:31 | |
Absolutely. | 0:22:31 | 0:22:33 | |
If you look at the number of convictions, it would suggest that | 0:22:33 | 0:22:36 | |
there really is no problem with race hate here at all, because there is | 0:22:36 | 0:22:40 | |
almost nobody in prison serving time for being involved in it and of | 0:22:40 | 0:22:43 | |
course we know that isn't the case. | 0:22:43 | 0:22:44 | |
We have been told by some people from ethnic minority groups that | 0:22:44 | 0:22:47 | |
they feel the PPS, because it's not collecting this data properly, | 0:22:47 | 0:22:50 | |
is institutionally racist. | 0:22:50 | 0:22:54 | |
I have to say, I am shocked to hear words like that. | 0:22:54 | 0:22:57 | |
Because nobody has ever suggested that I have heard | 0:22:57 | 0:23:00 | |
before that the PPS has failed in its duty to minority races | 0:23:00 | 0:23:03 | |
within our society, or that we are not contributing in a significant | 0:23:03 | 0:23:06 | |
way, so I would reject it. | 0:23:06 | 0:23:17 | |
In some places ? such as our computer screens ? identifying | 0:23:17 | 0:23:20 | |
vicious racism isn't difficult. | 0:23:20 | 0:23:25 | |
The explosion in racial offences in Northern Ireland has been | 0:23:25 | 0:23:27 | |
accompanied by a rise in online racism. | 0:23:27 | 0:23:31 | |
Social media sites like Facebook and twitter have hosted some vicious | 0:23:31 | 0:23:35 | |
and vitriolic racial abuse written by people in Northern Ireland over | 0:23:35 | 0:23:38 | |
the past few months. | 0:23:38 | 0:23:40 | |
Much of it has been directed at one person in particular. | 0:23:40 | 0:23:44 | |
Alliance MLA Anna Lo. | 0:23:44 | 0:23:50 | |
As we all know, a lot of abuse came online on Facebook, | 0:23:50 | 0:23:53 | |
and we have some of those comments. | 0:23:53 | 0:23:57 | |
I assume you don't mind if we look at some of them, is that ok? | 0:23:57 | 0:24:00 | |
Not a problem. | 0:24:00 | 0:24:01 | |
These are some of the comments written about Anna Lo. | 0:24:01 | 0:24:04 | |
They are shocking and difficult to read, we feel it's important to show | 0:24:04 | 0:24:07 | |
some of them in order to reveal the nature of the abuse. | 0:24:07 | 0:24:14 | |
I know people have said that, oh, as a politician you should be thick | 0:24:14 | 0:24:17 | |
skinned, it's part and parcel of life as a politician to get abuse. | 0:24:17 | 0:24:23 | |
But there is not a politician anywhere | 0:24:23 | 0:24:24 | |
in the UK or Ireland who would be expected to put up with this? | 0:24:24 | 0:24:28 | |
No, no, no. | 0:24:28 | 0:24:30 | |
So how did it affect you personally? | 0:24:30 | 0:24:33 | |
Well it's very hurtful, very hurtful when people make such | 0:24:33 | 0:24:35 | |
abusive comments about your background, about your ethnic | 0:24:35 | 0:24:37 | |
origin about your appearance. | 0:24:37 | 0:24:43 | |
Absolutely it hurts and I am only human. | 0:24:43 | 0:24:49 | |
The Alliance party reported a number of the comments to the police. | 0:24:49 | 0:24:53 | |
So far, five people have been dealt with. | 0:24:53 | 0:24:56 | |
But no one was convicted ? all they received was a police caution. | 0:24:56 | 0:25:02 | |
Certainly in the case of Anna Lo and others we were so keen to prosecute. | 0:25:02 | 0:25:06 | |
To have an official sanction to make sure that people knew that | 0:25:06 | 0:25:08 | |
you couldn't get away with this without a police sanction. | 0:25:08 | 0:25:11 | |
But why were some of these people, I mean why were these people only | 0:25:11 | 0:25:14 | |
cautioned? | 0:25:14 | 0:25:15 | |
Surely there should have been a bigger sanction than that. | 0:25:15 | 0:25:18 | |
I mean they get off, don't they? | 0:25:18 | 0:25:20 | |
Well don't forget that is a matter for the Public Prosecution Service. | 0:25:20 | 0:25:23 | |
We packet the evidence, we gather the evidence, | 0:25:23 | 0:25:24 | |
we present it to the PPS and the PPS make a decision and sanction. | 0:25:24 | 0:25:28 | |
Surely in a case like this, it's in the public interest to have | 0:25:28 | 0:25:31 | |
some people receive deterrent sentences and prosecutions, | 0:25:31 | 0:25:33 | |
which will make everyone think I am not doing that again. | 0:25:33 | 0:25:38 | |
cautions, Anna Lo believes that cautions are not enough. | 0:25:38 | 0:25:42 | |
Well I do not want to go into the specifics of that case, | 0:25:42 | 0:25:46 | |
but that would not have been my understanding of the situation | 0:25:46 | 0:25:48 | |
whenever we looked at it. | 0:25:48 | 0:25:54 | |
But Anna Lo was clear when we spoke to her that the sanctions | 0:25:54 | 0:25:57 | |
didn't appear to match the crime. | 0:25:57 | 0:26:01 | |
If the criminal justice system had come down very hard on one or two or | 0:26:01 | 0:26:05 | |
more people who had written on this page, would that have been | 0:26:05 | 0:26:08 | |
helpful to you and to other people? | 0:26:08 | 0:26:09 | |
I think so. | 0:26:09 | 0:26:12 | |
Partly it's justice, we want justice. | 0:26:12 | 0:26:16 | |
You know, we don't want to be abused and see | 0:26:16 | 0:26:18 | |
no action done, yes, we want that to be a deterrent to let people see | 0:26:18 | 0:26:22 | |
that they will face consequences. | 0:26:22 | 0:26:26 | |
If people are just receiving cautions, it will seem to many | 0:26:26 | 0:26:28 | |
people like a slap on the wrist. | 0:26:28 | 0:26:31 | |
Yes, yes, and that should not have happened. | 0:26:31 | 0:26:34 | |
The point about really vicious on line racism, though, is that it has | 0:26:34 | 0:26:37 | |
a wider social impact, doesn't it? | 0:26:37 | 0:26:39 | |
It does. | 0:26:39 | 0:26:40 | |
It lowers the tone and it makes other people who read | 0:26:40 | 0:26:43 | |
it think, well, this is acceptable. | 0:26:43 | 0:26:45 | |
So at some point isn't there an argument that we give someone | 0:26:45 | 0:26:47 | |
more than a police caution? | 0:26:47 | 0:26:50 | |
Absolutely. | 0:26:50 | 0:26:51 | |
So why haven't we done it so far? | 0:26:51 | 0:26:54 | |
You are focussing on one case, in which a number of diversionary | 0:26:54 | 0:26:58 | |
decisions were taken in the context of that case, which i can't talk | 0:26:58 | 0:27:02 | |
about, because it's not complete, so with the greatest of respect, Declan | 0:27:02 | 0:27:05 | |
this organisation takes race crime very seriously and prosecutes in | 0:27:05 | 0:27:07 | |
court, the vast majority of cases. | 0:27:07 | 0:27:14 | |
But for the victims of racist attacks, it's not prosecutions | 0:27:14 | 0:27:16 | |
that matter, but convictions. | 0:27:16 | 0:27:19 | |
And in particular, higher sentences for | 0:27:19 | 0:27:21 | |
the perpetrators of racist attacks. | 0:27:21 | 0:27:25 | |
The killer, Brij Sharma, was given a 17-month prison sentence | 0:27:25 | 0:27:30 | |
for manslaughter. | 0:27:30 | 0:27:31 | |
His brother and accomplice, who was also present, was sentenced | 0:27:31 | 0:27:34 | |
to 100 hours community service. | 0:27:34 | 0:27:40 | |
It brought home the message to every Indian person living here in | 0:27:40 | 0:27:49 | |
Northern Ireland - it is a question mark ? how important is their | 0:27:49 | 0:27:51 | |
contribution, their life in Northern | 0:27:51 | 0:27:53 | |
Ireland....to Northern Ireland. | 0:27:53 | 0:27:54 | |
The PPS told us that ten years on, they are meticulous about recording | 0:27:54 | 0:28:07 | |
cases which go to court as being racially motivated, and enter that | 0:28:07 | 0:28:10 | |
element on their computerised file about the offence. | 0:28:10 | 0:28:12 | |
They say since May 2013, they have recorded 124 cases as having | 0:28:12 | 0:28:15 | |
a racially-aggravated element. | 0:28:15 | 0:28:15 | |
You identifying it, on your computer system is not justice in the eyes | 0:28:15 | 0:28:19 | |
of a race hate victim, they want to see a conviction which takes into | 0:28:19 | 0:28:22 | |
account the racial element and they tell us they are never seeing it. | 0:28:22 | 0:28:28 | |
I appreciate that, and I have great sympathy for those | 0:28:28 | 0:28:30 | |
people from those communities which are being targeted in this way. | 0:28:30 | 0:28:34 | |
And all of us in this society, we all have to play our part | 0:28:34 | 0:28:38 | |
in identifying the underlying causes of this. | 0:28:38 | 0:28:41 | |
And in eeking out the evidence which will help us bring in new | 0:28:41 | 0:28:45 | |
measures to tackle this, obviously increasing cancer in our society. | 0:28:45 | 0:28:56 | |
Dealing with racism isn't just the job of the courts. | 0:28:56 | 0:28:59 | |
But they do have a crucial role to play in making | 0:28:59 | 0:29:02 | |
the perpetrators of racist attacks pay the price for their crimes. | 0:29:02 | 0:29:07 | |
Victims of those attacks need to know that justice is not just being | 0:29:07 | 0:29:10 | |
done, but being seen to be done. | 0:29:10 | 0:29:13 | |
But right now in Northern Ireland, it seems that too many victims | 0:29:13 | 0:29:16 | |
simply aren't seeing it. | 0:29:16 | 0:29:22 | |
Did the 1966 World Cup | 0:29:37 | 0:29:38 | |
mark the birth of modern football? | 0:29:38 | 0:29:41 | |
Would we starve without bees? | 0:29:41 | 0:29:43 | |
Why do Buddhists meditate? | 0:29:43 | 0:29:46 | |
Is rocket science easier than you think? | 0:29:46 | 0:29:48 | |
Well, BBC iWonder is full of great questions | 0:29:48 | 0:29:53 | |
for curious people like us. They just keep on coming. | 0:29:53 | 0:29:57 | |
Luckily, they have the answers as well. | 0:29:57 | 0:29:59 |