Browse content similar to 01/12/2015. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Tonight on Spotlight... | 0:00:02 | 0:00:04 | |
A pensioner scammed out of £180,000. | 0:00:04 | 0:00:08 | |
I just felt devastated, completely, | 0:00:09 | 0:00:12 | |
because I knew all the money was gone. | 0:00:12 | 0:00:15 | |
Scams cost Northern Ireland an estimated £100 million every year. | 0:00:16 | 0:00:22 | |
I think that is a major epidemic in the United Kingdom. | 0:00:22 | 0:00:26 | |
Yet the authorities don't seem capable of stopping it. | 0:00:26 | 0:00:30 | |
Money is moved, and it is dissipated and dispersed many times over | 0:00:30 | 0:00:35 | |
through multiple bank accounts which eventually become untraceable. | 0:00:35 | 0:00:39 | |
'We follow the letters trail to Holland.' | 0:00:39 | 0:00:42 | |
Hi. I'm from the BBC. | 0:00:42 | 0:00:44 | |
This is Elizabeth. She's a 75-year-old widow, | 0:01:12 | 0:01:16 | |
and she's lost her life savings. | 0:01:16 | 0:01:18 | |
She's been conned out of £180,000 by scammers. | 0:01:20 | 0:01:25 | |
These letters started to come, you know, from different places, | 0:01:27 | 0:01:32 | |
the Netherlands... | 0:01:32 | 0:01:34 | |
I thought, "Well, it's international, and it must be OK." | 0:01:34 | 0:01:37 | |
Elizabeth - we're not using her full name - | 0:01:43 | 0:01:46 | |
first fell victim to a mail scam. | 0:01:46 | 0:01:49 | |
Here's how it works. | 0:01:51 | 0:01:53 | |
You receive a letter like this one | 0:01:53 | 0:01:55 | |
which appears to guarantee you a cash sum of £20,000. | 0:01:55 | 0:01:59 | |
It could be as much as a quarter of a million pounds | 0:01:59 | 0:02:02 | |
or, in this one, £3 million. | 0:02:02 | 0:02:05 | |
It's all yours for £25, | 0:02:05 | 0:02:06 | |
which you're invited to send in a pre-addressed envelope provided. | 0:02:06 | 0:02:11 | |
This envelope's addressed to a PO box in Holland. | 0:02:11 | 0:02:14 | |
So, of course... | 0:02:17 | 0:02:20 | |
temptation got in the way. | 0:02:20 | 0:02:21 | |
-And were you paying money to these people? -Yes, I was. | 0:02:21 | 0:02:23 | |
-At every stage? -I couldn't afford to. | 0:02:23 | 0:02:27 | |
But I did do quite a few now, to tell you the truth. | 0:02:27 | 0:02:29 | |
How much money were they asking you to give them? | 0:02:29 | 0:02:32 | |
Some was £20, some was £25. | 0:02:32 | 0:02:36 | |
In return for these payments, | 0:02:36 | 0:02:38 | |
she was led to believe she had already won large cash prizes. | 0:02:38 | 0:02:43 | |
Police call this an advance-payment fraud, | 0:02:43 | 0:02:46 | |
and anyone who pays it is being scammed. | 0:02:46 | 0:02:49 | |
How much do you think you were spending in a week? | 0:02:51 | 0:02:56 | |
How much were you sending away? | 0:02:56 | 0:02:58 | |
Well, I keep enough for the petrol for the car | 0:02:58 | 0:03:01 | |
and some for my food for myself, but the rest I spent on... | 0:03:01 | 0:03:07 | |
..on that there. | 0:03:09 | 0:03:11 | |
Well, it's just like being hypnotised. | 0:03:11 | 0:03:13 | |
You're going to win and you're going to win this big amount of money | 0:03:13 | 0:03:17 | |
and you'll be able to buy what you want when you get it. | 0:03:17 | 0:03:20 | |
And what Elizabeth wanted to buy was a new house. | 0:03:21 | 0:03:25 | |
The letter scams began after her husband died. | 0:03:25 | 0:03:29 | |
She felt isolated and depressed, | 0:03:29 | 0:03:31 | |
both factors that can make people vulnerable to scams. | 0:03:31 | 0:03:35 | |
Anyone can fall victim to a scam. | 0:03:39 | 0:03:43 | |
If you've got something to lose, | 0:03:43 | 0:03:45 | |
there is someone out there who's trying to take it off you. | 0:03:45 | 0:03:49 | |
Professor Stephen Lea from Exeter University has never met | 0:03:49 | 0:03:53 | |
Elizabeth, but he has studied the psychology of scam victims | 0:03:53 | 0:03:58 | |
and scammers. | 0:03:58 | 0:04:00 | |
Certainly, they detect that someone's kind of lonely | 0:04:00 | 0:04:04 | |
and looking for activity, then they'll play on that. | 0:04:04 | 0:04:08 | |
Often, the excitement is financial. | 0:04:08 | 0:04:11 | |
You know, they're dangling a very large financial reward out there. | 0:04:11 | 0:04:16 | |
The volume of letters grew rapidly. | 0:04:17 | 0:04:20 | |
Elizabeth was becoming busier and busier, filling in forms | 0:04:20 | 0:04:25 | |
and posting off cash. | 0:04:25 | 0:04:27 | |
When she exhausted her pension, she started to use her savings. | 0:04:27 | 0:04:32 | |
I'd bring an envelope in, | 0:04:38 | 0:04:39 | |
and one by one, she'd do the cheques for me. | 0:04:39 | 0:04:44 | |
-So did she write the cheques? -No, no. | 0:04:45 | 0:04:49 | |
It was printed out on the printing machine or the computer thing. | 0:04:49 | 0:04:53 | |
She got my book and then she printed out the cheque. | 0:04:53 | 0:04:57 | |
And then you put them into the envelopes? | 0:04:59 | 0:05:01 | |
Yes, and went and posted them. | 0:05:01 | 0:05:02 | |
Elizabeth's books from the Progressive Building Society | 0:05:09 | 0:05:12 | |
tell their own story. You can see how the scams took over her life. | 0:05:12 | 0:05:17 | |
In the years before, there were virtually no | 0:05:17 | 0:05:20 | |
withdrawals from her account. | 0:05:20 | 0:05:22 | |
But that would soon change. | 0:05:22 | 0:05:24 | |
On one day in March last year, her building society issued 24 cheques. | 0:05:26 | 0:05:32 | |
Two days later, 21 cheques. | 0:05:34 | 0:05:37 | |
The next day, another 21 cheques. | 0:05:38 | 0:05:41 | |
In just a few months, she'd spent £42,000. | 0:05:43 | 0:05:48 | |
And she's far from being the only victim. | 0:05:48 | 0:05:51 | |
Now it's time for Money Box, with Paul Lewis. | 0:05:53 | 0:05:56 | |
Hello. In today's programme, beware of this man. | 0:05:56 | 0:05:59 | |
On the BBC's personal finance programme, | 0:06:06 | 0:06:08 | |
the lead story is on the latest scam. | 0:06:08 | 0:06:11 | |
Like most scammers, he's very convincing. | 0:06:11 | 0:06:15 | |
Presenter Paul Lewis says they are hearing about ever-increasing | 0:06:20 | 0:06:24 | |
numbers of scams. | 0:06:24 | 0:06:26 | |
It's one of the fastest-growing crimes, | 0:06:26 | 0:06:28 | |
and I suspect one reason is people realise they can make far | 0:06:28 | 0:06:32 | |
more money far more safely sitting in their bedroom defrauding | 0:06:32 | 0:06:36 | |
people than going out committing violent or burglary-type offences, | 0:06:36 | 0:06:42 | |
and I think that is a major epidemic in the United Kingdom. | 0:06:42 | 0:06:47 | |
Scams cost the UK economy £3.5 billion a year, | 0:06:47 | 0:06:53 | |
and in Northern Ireland they're growing all the time. | 0:06:53 | 0:06:56 | |
The estimated cost here is £100 million every year. | 0:06:56 | 0:07:01 | |
We discovered a scam operating within Northern Ireland | 0:07:03 | 0:07:07 | |
and we went in and we seized the post. | 0:07:07 | 0:07:10 | |
Now, there was over 22,000 letters. | 0:07:10 | 0:07:12 | |
When we opened those letters, there was over £300,000. | 0:07:12 | 0:07:16 | |
Now, that was just a couple of weeks' post gone off to one scam. | 0:07:16 | 0:07:20 | |
'Trading Standards is the body responsible | 0:07:21 | 0:07:24 | |
'for helping local scam victims. | 0:07:24 | 0:07:27 | |
'Beverley Burns has the job of trying to keep on top of the problem. | 0:07:27 | 0:07:31 | |
'It's not just the elderly and the vulnerable who are taken in.' | 0:07:31 | 0:07:35 | |
Retired teachers, university professors, accountants, nurses. | 0:07:35 | 0:07:40 | |
I have to say, it's people from every single walk of life. | 0:07:40 | 0:07:43 | |
And the amounts lost by people in Northern Ireland | 0:07:45 | 0:07:47 | |
to scammers are astonishing. | 0:07:47 | 0:07:51 | |
We know of four people who've lost even more than Elizabeth. | 0:07:51 | 0:07:55 | |
One person was conned out of £1 million, | 0:07:55 | 0:07:58 | |
two others half a million pounds each. | 0:07:58 | 0:08:00 | |
The criminal gangs share details of their victims, | 0:08:01 | 0:08:04 | |
putting them on what they call a "suckers list". | 0:08:04 | 0:08:07 | |
As soon as you've been defrauded, you go on the suckers list, | 0:08:09 | 0:08:12 | |
because they think once you've been defrauded, you might think, "Well, | 0:08:12 | 0:08:16 | |
"I'll go with this, because I might get some money back," and, secondly, | 0:08:16 | 0:08:20 | |
having been conned once, | 0:08:20 | 0:08:21 | |
you're probably gullible enough to be conned again. | 0:08:21 | 0:08:25 | |
A consequence of being on the suckers list is that criminals will | 0:08:25 | 0:08:29 | |
keep targeting victims, | 0:08:29 | 0:08:31 | |
and they have an imaginative range of scams. | 0:08:31 | 0:08:35 | |
And that's what happened to Elizabeth. | 0:08:35 | 0:08:37 | |
Only this time, it was in a relentless campaign of phone calls. | 0:08:37 | 0:08:42 | |
Hello? | 0:08:42 | 0:08:43 | |
And in the second scam, the amounts she was giving them got higher | 0:08:43 | 0:08:47 | |
and higher. | 0:08:47 | 0:08:49 | |
£5,000? | 0:08:49 | 0:08:51 | |
The criminals had convinced her she was owed a large | 0:08:51 | 0:08:54 | |
sum of money from an old mortgage. | 0:08:54 | 0:08:56 | |
I'm owed how much? | 0:08:56 | 0:08:58 | |
But first, they asked her to send them money to release the cash. | 0:08:58 | 0:09:03 | |
Erm, well, what mortgage are you talking about? | 0:09:03 | 0:09:06 | |
The phone-call scam started last September. | 0:09:06 | 0:09:10 | |
The scammer said he was called David and used the name of a real lawyer. | 0:09:10 | 0:09:15 | |
He said he was a judge working on behalf of what | 0:09:15 | 0:09:17 | |
he described as the Ministry of Justice. | 0:09:17 | 0:09:21 | |
One of the very well-known persuasive techniques | 0:09:21 | 0:09:25 | |
that legitimate and illegitimate marketers - | 0:09:25 | 0:09:28 | |
if we can put it that way - | 0:09:28 | 0:09:30 | |
use is to try and surround themselves with authority. | 0:09:30 | 0:09:34 | |
The man, it was a sort of an Indian, sort of Pakistani accent, | 0:09:34 | 0:09:40 | |
but the English was quite good. | 0:09:40 | 0:09:41 | |
'I thought, "Well, £5,000 would be great."' | 0:09:41 | 0:09:44 | |
The man calling himself David was persistent | 0:09:44 | 0:09:47 | |
and demanding on the phone. | 0:09:47 | 0:09:50 | |
Elizabeth was soon wrapped up in his world. | 0:09:52 | 0:09:56 | |
This is one of the persuasive techniques | 0:09:56 | 0:09:59 | |
that we know that scammers use, | 0:09:59 | 0:10:01 | |
of trying to get you committed to a project, | 0:10:01 | 0:10:04 | |
and when you look at the kinds of language they use, | 0:10:04 | 0:10:08 | |
they start talking about "our joint project" to try | 0:10:08 | 0:10:11 | |
and give you ownership of it | 0:10:11 | 0:10:15 | |
so that you'll feel responsible for it and feel you ought to keep it up. | 0:10:15 | 0:10:21 | |
She was persuaded to withdraw large sums of cash | 0:10:23 | 0:10:28 | |
and sent it to David, the man she believed to be a judge. | 0:10:28 | 0:10:32 | |
She sent it using money transfer systems | 0:10:34 | 0:10:36 | |
that operate anywhere in the world. | 0:10:36 | 0:10:39 | |
I went to the money shop, filled in the form, | 0:10:40 | 0:10:45 | |
and it went through on the computer, whatever they do. | 0:10:45 | 0:10:48 | |
Soon, she was sending as much as £2,000 in a morning. | 0:10:52 | 0:10:56 | |
Her scammer would ring her with instructions. | 0:10:57 | 0:11:00 | |
She followed them all in the belief that he would one day | 0:11:00 | 0:11:04 | |
pay up the money he'd told her she was owed. | 0:11:04 | 0:11:06 | |
PHONE RINGS | 0:11:06 | 0:11:08 | |
Hello? David? | 0:11:08 | 0:11:09 | |
'He would phone me on a mobile number...' | 0:11:11 | 0:11:15 | |
to ask me had I done the transaction, and I would say I had. | 0:11:15 | 0:11:18 | |
Then he would want the number on the bottom of the form. | 0:11:18 | 0:11:22 | |
Once they had the serial number, | 0:11:22 | 0:11:24 | |
criminals on the other side of the world could retrieve the money. | 0:11:24 | 0:11:29 | |
'That's the number I would tell him.' | 0:11:29 | 0:11:31 | |
And he said, "That's OK." | 0:11:31 | 0:11:34 | |
So that money went through to them. | 0:11:34 | 0:11:37 | |
OK, thanks very much. Bye. | 0:11:37 | 0:11:39 | |
'But there was no end to his determination | 0:11:40 | 0:11:43 | |
'to extract every penny he could. | 0:11:43 | 0:11:47 | |
'He kept her interest by promising to visit | 0:11:47 | 0:11:49 | |
'and personally deliver £90,000. | 0:11:49 | 0:11:52 | |
'But on the day he was due, he said she first had to send £4,000 to | 0:11:52 | 0:11:58 | |
'cover the costs for him and an assistant.' | 0:11:58 | 0:12:01 | |
I says, "Well, why not leave your assistant at home | 0:12:01 | 0:12:04 | |
"and come yourself, cos it'd be cheaper for me?" | 0:12:04 | 0:12:06 | |
He says he couldn't do that, seeing the amount of money was so big. | 0:12:06 | 0:12:11 | |
'But that, too, was a lie.' | 0:12:11 | 0:12:13 | |
-So you paid the money. -Yes. -And what happened after that, that day? | 0:12:13 | 0:12:17 | |
-He didn't turn up. -He didn't turn up. -No. No, didn't turn up. | 0:12:17 | 0:12:20 | |
The situation becomes a sort of enclosed world which people | 0:12:22 | 0:12:28 | |
then believe in, and when you stand outside it, | 0:12:28 | 0:12:33 | |
when you come to stand outside it and you realise what happened, | 0:12:33 | 0:12:36 | |
you almost wonder, "How could I have believed that?" | 0:12:36 | 0:12:40 | |
But when you're inside it, it seems entirely persuasive. | 0:12:40 | 0:12:45 | |
And, of course, that's what the scammers are trying to do. | 0:12:45 | 0:12:49 | |
Why do you need to deliver it? | 0:12:51 | 0:12:52 | |
Elizabeth's pursuit of the money she had been told was hers by right | 0:12:52 | 0:12:57 | |
had left her broke and exhausted. | 0:12:57 | 0:13:00 | |
You owe me a lot of money. I need that money. | 0:13:01 | 0:13:03 | |
'The guy says, "Look,' | 0:13:05 | 0:13:07 | |
"there's no more money left. I can't send you any more." | 0:13:07 | 0:13:12 | |
Well, I thought to myself, "Well, you've had it, | 0:13:12 | 0:13:15 | |
"the money's all done, and that's it." | 0:13:15 | 0:13:18 | |
In just seven weeks, Elizabeth paid out £103,000 | 0:13:21 | 0:13:27 | |
from her bank account to a man she believed was her friend. | 0:13:27 | 0:13:31 | |
All she had left was £440. | 0:13:33 | 0:13:37 | |
It must have come as a bit of a shock, then, | 0:13:39 | 0:13:42 | |
when you learnt what was happening. | 0:13:42 | 0:13:45 | |
It did. A big shock. And I felt I'd been so stupid, as well... | 0:13:45 | 0:13:50 | |
..that I should have cottoned on, like, that... | 0:13:52 | 0:13:54 | |
..that the whole thing was a fraud, really, | 0:13:56 | 0:13:58 | |
because I had said to that first man there, I says, | 0:13:58 | 0:14:04 | |
"That there's a fraud that you're doing to me." | 0:14:04 | 0:14:08 | |
"That's a scam." He says, "It's not, it's real." | 0:14:08 | 0:14:11 | |
When did you first realise that... | 0:14:11 | 0:14:15 | |
that you'd been involved in scams? | 0:14:15 | 0:14:18 | |
Well... | 0:14:19 | 0:14:20 | |
..when the police came to the house | 0:14:22 | 0:14:24 | |
and told me that this is all a scam, you know, | 0:14:24 | 0:14:26 | |
different things like that, and... | 0:14:26 | 0:14:28 | |
I just felt devastated, completely, because... | 0:14:28 | 0:14:32 | |
I knew all the money was gone. | 0:14:32 | 0:14:34 | |
But even when she was broke, there was no end to the scammers' greed | 0:14:37 | 0:14:42 | |
and cruelty. They persuaded Elizabeth to borrow £14,000. | 0:14:42 | 0:14:48 | |
A year on, and she's still paying that off. | 0:14:48 | 0:14:51 | |
But there was worse to come. | 0:14:52 | 0:14:54 | |
They then made her part of their criminal enterprise by getting | 0:14:54 | 0:14:58 | |
Elizabeth to open a new bank account. | 0:14:58 | 0:15:01 | |
And this time, they did lodge some money. | 0:15:03 | 0:15:07 | |
They paid £5,000 directly into the account. | 0:15:07 | 0:15:10 | |
He convinced me they could help me, | 0:15:13 | 0:15:16 | |
so he said he'd lodge money into my account | 0:15:16 | 0:15:19 | |
and then I could withdraw it. | 0:15:19 | 0:15:21 | |
But they had an ulterior motive. | 0:15:21 | 0:15:23 | |
It looked as if I had a healthy enough balance. | 0:15:24 | 0:15:27 | |
At one time, you get the statement, it said you had £5,000 in it. | 0:15:27 | 0:15:32 | |
No sooner had she got some money in her account | 0:15:32 | 0:15:36 | |
than she was asked to move it on again. | 0:15:36 | 0:15:38 | |
Then he'd ask me to draw maybe out of that 5,000, | 0:15:40 | 0:15:43 | |
he asked me to withdraw 2,000 maybe today | 0:15:43 | 0:15:46 | |
and another 2,000 maybe tomorrow. | 0:15:46 | 0:15:49 | |
So that's the way it went. | 0:15:49 | 0:15:51 | |
She didn't know it, but Elizabeth had started working for the criminals. | 0:15:52 | 0:15:58 | |
The money lodged in her account had been scammed from other people, | 0:15:58 | 0:16:03 | |
and a police force in England | 0:16:03 | 0:16:05 | |
started to investigate her for money laundering. | 0:16:05 | 0:16:08 | |
You'd never...even thought you were involved in anything like that? | 0:16:10 | 0:16:13 | |
No, no, sure, I never... | 0:16:13 | 0:16:15 | |
I hear tell of it, but you never thought, y'know, that they | 0:16:15 | 0:16:19 | |
used you for laundering money, of all things. | 0:16:19 | 0:16:22 | |
-I didn't know it. -A bit of a shock? | 0:16:23 | 0:16:25 | |
It was, that I'd been used, connected with crime. But... | 0:16:25 | 0:16:31 | |
It was a shock... | 0:16:31 | 0:16:33 | |
to tell you the truth. | 0:16:33 | 0:16:35 | |
The scams lasted for nearly a year. | 0:16:37 | 0:16:40 | |
When she finally stopped talking to the scammers, | 0:16:40 | 0:16:43 | |
on one day alone she had 26 missed calls. | 0:16:43 | 0:16:47 | |
Elizabeth kept notes on her callers and their telephone numbers. | 0:16:47 | 0:16:52 | |
We searched for the numbers online | 0:16:52 | 0:16:54 | |
and discovered they'd been used in identical scams, | 0:16:54 | 0:16:59 | |
even down to the same detail about a man called | 0:16:59 | 0:17:01 | |
David at the Ministry of Justice. | 0:17:01 | 0:17:04 | |
Meanwhile, at Elizabeth's branch of the Ulster Bank, | 0:17:05 | 0:17:09 | |
her spending had started to cause concern. | 0:17:09 | 0:17:13 | |
'Well, there was a lady.' | 0:17:13 | 0:17:16 | |
She asked me into her office one day. | 0:17:16 | 0:17:18 | |
And she said, | 0:17:19 | 0:17:21 | |
"You're coming in here very often to withdraw large amounts of money." | 0:17:21 | 0:17:26 | |
I said, "Yes." | 0:17:26 | 0:17:28 | |
And I told her I was doing repairs to the house, which I wasn't. | 0:17:30 | 0:17:36 | |
In all, bank staff took Elizabeth aside on five occasions. | 0:17:36 | 0:17:40 | |
The Ulster Bank would say that they did intervene | 0:17:43 | 0:17:47 | |
and that they did ask you about what you were doing with your money | 0:17:47 | 0:17:50 | |
and that you basically said it was your money, | 0:17:50 | 0:17:53 | |
you could do with it as you pleased. | 0:17:53 | 0:17:55 | |
Do you accept that you did tell the bank...? | 0:17:55 | 0:17:59 | |
Well, I just can't remember for sure, but I must have had. | 0:17:59 | 0:18:03 | |
I must have had when they say so. | 0:18:03 | 0:18:05 | |
You said you were going to get house repairs, | 0:18:05 | 0:18:07 | |
-but that wasn't strictly true. -No, it wasn't. | 0:18:07 | 0:18:09 | |
-It wasn't strictly true. -What do you think the bank should have done? | 0:18:09 | 0:18:13 | |
Well, I think they could've froze my account and just said, | 0:18:15 | 0:18:18 | |
"Look, we know that you're not telling the truth." | 0:18:18 | 0:18:20 | |
So I feel that they could have stopped me earlier. | 0:18:20 | 0:18:23 | |
'Elizabeth's money had gone by the time her family found out | 0:18:25 | 0:18:29 | |
'what had been going on. | 0:18:29 | 0:18:31 | |
'According to the rules, where someone has given away their money | 0:18:33 | 0:18:36 | |
'voluntarily, the banks don't have to pay compensation.' | 0:18:36 | 0:18:40 | |
If the customer says, "Look, leave me alone, it's my money, | 0:18:40 | 0:18:43 | |
"I can do what I like with it," | 0:18:43 | 0:18:45 | |
then really the bank is in a very difficult position. | 0:18:45 | 0:18:48 | |
Even if the customer's elderly, in their 70s, | 0:18:48 | 0:18:50 | |
they still have a perfect right to make decisions | 0:18:50 | 0:18:53 | |
and to spend it as they see fit! | 0:18:53 | 0:18:55 | |
'But for the people who have lost out to scammers, | 0:19:01 | 0:19:05 | |
'there's little hope of any type of investigation. | 0:19:05 | 0:19:09 | |
'To cope with the growth in fraud crime, | 0:19:09 | 0:19:11 | |
'the Government has established ActionFraud in the City of London. | 0:19:11 | 0:19:16 | |
'If a scam is reported, | 0:19:16 | 0:19:17 | |
'the details will go to ActionFraud to be analysed. | 0:19:17 | 0:19:21 | |
'But the harsh reality for Elizabeth | 0:19:26 | 0:19:28 | |
'is ActionFraud told her in writing there was nothing they could do. | 0:19:28 | 0:19:33 | |
'And that's not unusual.' | 0:19:44 | 0:19:47 | |
When you look around to try and find someone to take | 0:19:47 | 0:19:49 | |
responsibility as to how you fight fraud, | 0:19:49 | 0:19:53 | |
it's difficult to find someone who'll put their hands up | 0:19:53 | 0:19:55 | |
and say, "Yes, we're the people to come to." | 0:19:55 | 0:19:57 | |
I do think - and it's one of the most common complaints that I get - | 0:19:57 | 0:20:02 | |
that people who have been defrauded or potentially defrauded say, | 0:20:02 | 0:20:06 | |
"Well, we reported all this, and no-one seems interested." | 0:20:06 | 0:20:09 | |
And that is the position we have. | 0:20:09 | 0:20:11 | |
We have this huge crime, two million people defrauded every year, | 0:20:11 | 0:20:15 | |
and it is not really being tackled effectively at a national level. | 0:20:15 | 0:20:19 | |
'Successful prosecutions into this sort of crime are rare. | 0:20:21 | 0:20:25 | |
'And here's why. | 0:20:25 | 0:20:27 | |
'Scamming is a global business. | 0:20:27 | 0:20:29 | |
'The criminals behind marketing scams | 0:20:29 | 0:20:32 | |
'spread their work across the world, | 0:20:32 | 0:20:34 | |
'so no-one police force is responsible.' | 0:20:34 | 0:20:37 | |
The plan will be devised in one country, | 0:20:38 | 0:20:42 | |
the scam letters printed in another. | 0:20:42 | 0:20:45 | |
The victims are picked off the suckers list and targeted elsewhere. | 0:20:45 | 0:20:50 | |
They send off cash to yet another country. | 0:20:50 | 0:20:53 | |
It's delivered to PO boxes, where mail companies process the letters. | 0:20:53 | 0:20:59 | |
But the big question is, once it's delivered, | 0:21:02 | 0:21:05 | |
where then does the money finally end up? | 0:21:05 | 0:21:07 | |
'We understand that most of Elizabeth's money | 0:21:09 | 0:21:12 | |
'from the phone scams ended up in the hands | 0:21:12 | 0:21:15 | |
'of organised criminals in Thailand. | 0:21:15 | 0:21:18 | |
'But it's clear once your money leaves Northern Ireland, | 0:21:18 | 0:21:21 | |
'there's little the police can do.' | 0:21:21 | 0:21:24 | |
We will follow the money trail, but very often, nearly invariably, | 0:21:24 | 0:21:29 | |
that money is moved and it is dissipated and dispersed | 0:21:29 | 0:21:32 | |
many times over, through multiple bank accounts, | 0:21:32 | 0:21:35 | |
which eventually become untraceable. | 0:21:35 | 0:21:38 | |
And they do find themselves very often | 0:21:38 | 0:21:41 | |
certainly at least across Europe, and into Asia and the Middle East. | 0:21:41 | 0:21:47 | |
The PSNI investigation into Elizabeth's case is now closed. | 0:21:47 | 0:21:51 | |
So the banks, ActionFraud and the PSNI weren't able to help her. | 0:21:56 | 0:22:01 | |
The Financial Ombudsman investigated her case | 0:22:01 | 0:22:04 | |
and ruled that the Ulster Bank was under no obligation to refund her. | 0:22:04 | 0:22:09 | |
But the Progressive Building Society was told to refund the 96 cheques. | 0:22:09 | 0:22:15 | |
So out of the £180,000 she's lost, | 0:22:15 | 0:22:19 | |
she's recovered just a few thousand pounds in compensation. | 0:22:19 | 0:22:23 | |
'Elizabeth's money is all gone, | 0:22:28 | 0:22:31 | |
'but a year on, the scammers haven't gone away. | 0:22:31 | 0:22:34 | |
'They still keep in touch. | 0:22:41 | 0:22:43 | |
'We asked Elizabeth to keep hold of some of the scam letters | 0:22:45 | 0:22:49 | |
'she's still getting. | 0:22:49 | 0:22:51 | |
'The scale of the deliveries is startling... | 0:22:51 | 0:22:53 | |
'..and most of this in just a few weeks. | 0:22:55 | 0:22:58 | |
'We asked Royal Mail | 0:23:03 | 0:23:04 | |
'why they don't simply stop delivering unsolicited mail.' | 0:23:04 | 0:23:08 | |
One thing that Royal Mail cannot do under any circumstances | 0:23:10 | 0:23:13 | |
is open people's mail. | 0:23:13 | 0:23:15 | |
The outside of an envelope may give us some concern. | 0:23:15 | 0:23:17 | |
It's the content that will actually tell us | 0:23:17 | 0:23:20 | |
whether there's a scam taking place or not. | 0:23:20 | 0:23:21 | |
So mail has to be delivered. | 0:23:21 | 0:23:23 | |
Now, we've sorted out all of these letters into the countries | 0:23:26 | 0:23:31 | |
of origin, and we find that there are 15 countries where scamming letters | 0:23:31 | 0:23:35 | |
are being sent into Northern Ireland. | 0:23:35 | 0:23:37 | |
Philippines, Samoa, the United States, Romania, Fiji - | 0:23:38 | 0:23:42 | |
but the biggest number originate in Holland. | 0:23:42 | 0:23:46 | |
We know every single one of these letters | 0:23:48 | 0:23:50 | |
requesting an advance payment fee is an attempt to defraud. | 0:23:50 | 0:23:54 | |
MUSIC: Eye Level by the Simon Park Orchestra | 0:23:56 | 0:23:59 | |
'With no organisation appearing to investigate the scams, | 0:24:11 | 0:24:15 | |
'we wanted to see where Elizabeth was being asked in recent months | 0:24:15 | 0:24:18 | |
'to send her money. | 0:24:18 | 0:24:20 | |
'I'm getting help from a former detective. | 0:24:24 | 0:24:28 | |
'Cees Schep spent 35 years in fraud investigation | 0:24:28 | 0:24:32 | |
'and now works for a fraud help desk that promotes prevention. | 0:24:32 | 0:24:36 | |
'We want to visit the PO box addresses on the envelopes. | 0:24:42 | 0:24:46 | |
'We eventually track one down to a retail | 0:24:50 | 0:24:53 | |
'park on the outskirts of Utrecht.' | 0:24:53 | 0:24:55 | |
Yeah. | 0:24:59 | 0:25:01 | |
This is Postbox 1225. | 0:25:01 | 0:25:03 | |
It's on the white envelope here. | 0:25:05 | 0:25:08 | |
'We found out this PO box is registered to a company | 0:25:08 | 0:25:11 | |
'called Trend Services, owned by this man.' | 0:25:11 | 0:25:15 | |
Mijn naam is Erik Dekker. | 0:25:15 | 0:25:17 | |
Erik Dekker's company, Trends, does printing and packaging. | 0:25:17 | 0:25:21 | |
It also provides mail delivery and collection services for people | 0:25:21 | 0:25:25 | |
who prefer the convenience or secrecy of this type of service. | 0:25:25 | 0:25:28 | |
This is one of the postbox numbers | 0:25:30 | 0:25:33 | |
that's registered to Mr Erik Dekker's company, Trends. | 0:25:33 | 0:25:37 | |
He's got a number of others at different post offices in this area, | 0:25:38 | 0:25:42 | |
but this is number 1225. | 0:25:42 | 0:25:44 | |
It's one of an estimated 114 PO boxes registered to his company. | 0:25:46 | 0:25:52 | |
When we opened the recent mail sent to Elizabeth, | 0:25:52 | 0:25:55 | |
we found that 59 of the letters | 0:25:55 | 0:25:57 | |
had return envelopes addressed to his postboxes. | 0:25:57 | 0:26:01 | |
There's no evidence that Mr Dekker knows anything about the content | 0:26:02 | 0:26:06 | |
of the envelopes that are being delivered to his postboxes - | 0:26:06 | 0:26:09 | |
but he does presumably know who he's collecting this mail for. | 0:26:09 | 0:26:14 | |
We wanted to ask Mr Dekker what happens to the envelopes | 0:26:14 | 0:26:17 | |
after he's taken delivery of them. | 0:26:17 | 0:26:20 | |
'We e-mailed him to say we'd like to talk about direct mail from Ireland. | 0:26:20 | 0:26:24 | |
'He replied to say he didn't want to speak to us, | 0:26:24 | 0:26:26 | |
'so we decided to visit his offices | 0:26:26 | 0:26:29 | |
'to see if that provided any clues | 0:26:29 | 0:26:31 | |
'and to see if we could change his mind.' | 0:26:31 | 0:26:34 | |
Hi. I'm from the BBC. | 0:26:35 | 0:26:37 | |
Erm, well, it's about mail that comes through his company from Ireland. | 0:26:40 | 0:26:45 | |
Yes, he doesn't want to speak to me, I understand that, | 0:26:50 | 0:26:52 | |
but I'm explaining to you that I have information about mail | 0:26:52 | 0:26:55 | |
that comes through these post office box numbers | 0:26:55 | 0:26:58 | |
that are registered to this company and it comes from Ireland. | 0:26:58 | 0:27:01 | |
I wanted to ask him a few words about that. | 0:27:01 | 0:27:03 | |
-All right? -HE SIGHS | 0:27:07 | 0:27:09 | |
-Goodbye. -OK. Thank you. | 0:27:09 | 0:27:11 | |
So... | 0:27:12 | 0:27:13 | |
clearly... | 0:27:13 | 0:27:15 | |
the people inside this company don't want to talk. | 0:27:15 | 0:27:18 | |
And in fact, that lady has underlined the fact that the director | 0:27:18 | 0:27:21 | |
we've tried to get in touch with, Mr Erik Dekker, | 0:27:21 | 0:27:24 | |
doesn't want to talk to us, either. | 0:27:24 | 0:27:26 | |
It was clear our presence was no longer welcome. | 0:27:30 | 0:27:33 | |
We don't know what happens to the money posted in the scam letters | 0:27:37 | 0:27:41 | |
or what Mr Dekker knows about the people whose mail | 0:27:41 | 0:27:45 | |
his company is collecting, but he wasn't interested in helping us. | 0:27:45 | 0:27:49 | |
In a statement, Mr Dekker said, | 0:27:50 | 0:27:52 | |
"It's a mystery to me why you approached me in this matter." | 0:27:52 | 0:27:56 | |
But the question remains, once it's delivered, | 0:27:58 | 0:28:01 | |
where does the money finally end up? | 0:28:01 | 0:28:04 | |
It seems the Dutch police aren't investigating that question, | 0:28:05 | 0:28:09 | |
as there have been no complaints from police in the UK. | 0:28:09 | 0:28:13 | |
For now, what happened to her money remains a mystery. | 0:28:17 | 0:28:21 | |
For Elizabeth, life goes on. | 0:28:21 | 0:28:24 | |
I was used as if I was hypnotised, | 0:28:24 | 0:28:27 | |
thinking I was going to get money back along with the money I'd spent | 0:28:27 | 0:28:31 | |
and didn't get anything, not even a penny. | 0:28:31 | 0:28:35 | |
She's paid a high price for her involvement with scammers. | 0:28:35 | 0:28:39 | |
I'd just like to warn others, anybody else that's elderly and... | 0:28:40 | 0:28:45 | |
..you think you know it all, but you don't, | 0:28:48 | 0:28:51 | |
just to warn them, and not to happen to them, | 0:28:51 | 0:28:54 | |
because it's happened to me. | 0:28:54 | 0:28:56 | |
And it's completely devastating. | 0:28:56 | 0:28:59 | |
It does affect your health, as well. | 0:28:59 | 0:29:01 | |
How do you plan to get over this, then? How will you recover from it? | 0:29:03 | 0:29:06 | |
Well, I just plan to live one day at a time, | 0:29:06 | 0:29:10 | |
be active and take an interest in outside stuff rather than... | 0:29:10 | 0:29:15 | |
..the money. | 0:29:18 | 0:29:20 | |
Presumably you've got friends and family to help you. | 0:29:22 | 0:29:25 | |
You need good friends and family to help you, yes. | 0:29:25 | 0:29:29 | |
But you feel you've let everybody down. | 0:29:29 | 0:29:32 |