Browse content similar to 24/11/2015. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Tonight, Freddie Scappaticci, | 0:00:18 | 0:00:19 | |
the British agent at the heart of the IRA, | 0:00:19 | 0:00:22 | |
is finally under investigation. | 0:00:22 | 0:00:25 | |
Why did it take so long? | 0:00:25 | 0:00:26 | |
It's unacceptable. | 0:00:27 | 0:00:29 | |
Clearly unacceptable. | 0:00:29 | 0:00:31 | |
I am Freddie Scappaticci. | 0:00:31 | 0:00:34 | |
In June, Freddie Scappaticci tried to stop Spotlight | 0:00:34 | 0:00:37 | |
broadcasting these 2003 pictures. | 0:00:37 | 0:00:40 | |
He took the BBC to court, but lost. | 0:00:40 | 0:00:43 | |
I'm telling you, I am not guilty of any of these allegations. | 0:00:43 | 0:00:46 | |
Back then, we reported on a special Police Ombudsman investigation. | 0:00:51 | 0:00:56 | |
Now, the Director of Public Prosecutions has intervened. | 0:00:56 | 0:01:00 | |
I have requested the Chief Constable | 0:01:00 | 0:01:03 | |
to investigate a range of potential offences, | 0:01:03 | 0:01:07 | |
which relate to the alleged activities | 0:01:07 | 0:01:10 | |
of an agent commonly known as Stakeknife. | 0:01:10 | 0:01:14 | |
It will also include an investigation | 0:01:14 | 0:01:18 | |
of any potential criminal activity that may have been carried out | 0:01:18 | 0:01:23 | |
by security service | 0:01:23 | 0:01:25 | |
and intelligence personnel. | 0:01:25 | 0:01:27 | |
We told you that Scappaticci was suspected of a role in 24 murders. | 0:01:31 | 0:01:36 | |
But the police say they now intend to examine many more killings. | 0:01:36 | 0:01:39 | |
There are other cases that I will want to ensure | 0:01:41 | 0:01:45 | |
the investigative body that looks at this takes into account. | 0:01:45 | 0:01:48 | |
We were told it could be as many as 40 killings, maybe more. | 0:01:48 | 0:01:53 | |
Yeah, that is a possibility. We could be touching on 50. | 0:01:53 | 0:01:57 | |
Well...that is astonishing. | 0:01:59 | 0:02:01 | |
Well, it is, but, I mean, it depends how you set the parameters. | 0:02:01 | 0:02:05 | |
You've just said we are looking at as many as 50 killings, 50 murders. | 0:02:05 | 0:02:09 | |
Why wasn't this investigated before? | 0:02:09 | 0:02:12 | |
Well, that is a good question. | 0:02:12 | 0:02:13 | |
It was clear to me that an investigation | 0:02:16 | 0:02:18 | |
of a much broader scale was required, and required urgently. | 0:02:18 | 0:02:25 | |
Because this matter has lain virtually untouched | 0:02:25 | 0:02:29 | |
by investigative hands now for at least 12 years. | 0:02:29 | 0:02:34 | |
Given the nature of the allegations that were made, | 0:02:34 | 0:02:37 | |
given the seriousness and volume of incidents that we're talking about, | 0:02:37 | 0:02:43 | |
I do think it is unacceptable that we are sitting here in 2015 | 0:02:43 | 0:02:47 | |
having this conversation. | 0:02:47 | 0:02:48 | |
Why? Why this delay? | 0:02:48 | 0:02:50 | |
I wish we could explain the delay, | 0:02:50 | 0:02:53 | |
but it is an unconscionable delay, given the weight of the allegations | 0:02:53 | 0:02:58 | |
which are contained within this report. | 0:02:58 | 0:03:01 | |
12 years ago, former IRA man Freddie Scappaticci | 0:03:18 | 0:03:21 | |
was publicly linked to multiple murders. | 0:03:21 | 0:03:24 | |
He was also identified as a top army agent - Stakeknife. | 0:03:27 | 0:03:31 | |
He is now at the centre of one of the biggest murder investigations | 0:03:34 | 0:03:37 | |
the State has ever seen. | 0:03:37 | 0:03:38 | |
And the intelligence services are also in the frame. | 0:03:40 | 0:03:43 | |
This just isn't about who pulled the trigger. | 0:03:44 | 0:03:47 | |
There are very serious allegations about who was pulling strings. | 0:03:47 | 0:03:50 | |
Freddie Scappaticci, the British Army's golden egg. | 0:03:52 | 0:03:56 | |
The informant who hunted down IRA informants. | 0:03:56 | 0:04:00 | |
Central to the controversy about Stakeknife | 0:04:02 | 0:04:06 | |
is that he was a British state agent who was involved, allegedly, | 0:04:06 | 0:04:11 | |
in the murder of other British state agents. | 0:04:11 | 0:04:14 | |
Clearly, those allegations form the basis of our investigation. | 0:04:14 | 0:04:20 | |
That a British state agent was involved | 0:04:20 | 0:04:22 | |
in the murder and killing of other British state agents? | 0:04:22 | 0:04:24 | |
-Yes. -That is part of...? -That is part of our investigation. | 0:04:24 | 0:04:28 | |
Tonight, the story of Frank Hegarty, | 0:04:29 | 0:04:31 | |
a British Army informant whose death is alleged to have been overseen | 0:04:31 | 0:04:35 | |
by another Army agent, Freddie Scappaticci. | 0:04:35 | 0:04:38 | |
Loving family man. | 0:04:43 | 0:04:44 | |
Dedicated father. | 0:04:47 | 0:04:48 | |
We were his life. | 0:04:51 | 0:04:53 | |
But it turns out he had another life as well. | 0:04:53 | 0:04:55 | |
Ryan Hegarty was five years old when his father was murdered by the IRA. | 0:04:59 | 0:05:04 | |
This is the first time he has spoken publicly about his dad's killing. | 0:05:05 | 0:05:09 | |
It has haunted me my entire life. | 0:05:11 | 0:05:13 | |
Ryan has had a troubled past, with convictions for assault. | 0:05:16 | 0:05:19 | |
He was into greyhounds, racing greyhounds, coursing. | 0:05:27 | 0:05:31 | |
-So dogs was your dad's life? -It was a major part of his life. | 0:05:33 | 0:05:37 | |
-You went racing with him one night. -Yes, I did. | 0:05:37 | 0:05:40 | |
I can vaguely mind going up to Lifford, which is in Donegal. | 0:05:40 | 0:05:44 | |
I went there, like. | 0:05:44 | 0:05:45 | |
I can mind been taken there, like. I definitely mind that, like. | 0:05:45 | 0:05:48 | |
Frank Hegarty was an active Republican in Derry | 0:05:58 | 0:06:01 | |
from the start of the Troubles. | 0:06:01 | 0:06:03 | |
January 1974. | 0:06:08 | 0:06:10 | |
Two Catholic civilian workers are killed in a bomb attack | 0:06:12 | 0:06:15 | |
outside Londonderry's Ebrington Barracks. | 0:06:15 | 0:06:18 | |
Five years later, | 0:06:21 | 0:06:22 | |
military intelligence cast its net and hauls in Frank Hegarty. | 0:06:22 | 0:06:27 | |
They met him...on the roads... | 0:06:30 | 0:06:33 | |
..when he walked his greyhounds and stuff. | 0:06:35 | 0:06:37 | |
They said that he was responsible for planting a bomb | 0:06:39 | 0:06:45 | |
over at Ebrington Barracks, and two civilians were killed. | 0:06:45 | 0:06:48 | |
And if he cooperated with them or worked for them, | 0:06:50 | 0:06:53 | |
then he would be granted immunity from prosecution. | 0:06:53 | 0:06:57 | |
So that's how I think they recruited him. | 0:06:57 | 0:07:00 | |
That was taken in 1978 in West Belfast. | 0:07:03 | 0:07:07 | |
That's just inside... | 0:07:07 | 0:07:09 | |
'Patrick Mercer did nine tours of Northern Ireland | 0:07:09 | 0:07:11 | |
'as a British Army officer, | 0:07:11 | 0:07:14 | |
'sometimes, in an intelligence role. | 0:07:14 | 0:07:16 | |
'He knows how informants were recruited.' | 0:07:16 | 0:07:19 | |
They would be arrested, | 0:07:20 | 0:07:22 | |
often on a minor charge, | 0:07:22 | 0:07:25 | |
a motoring offence, tax evasion. | 0:07:25 | 0:07:27 | |
It would be put to them, "Look, we know, we absolutely know | 0:07:27 | 0:07:30 | |
"that you shot a policeman six months ago. | 0:07:30 | 0:07:33 | |
"Now, would you like 10 years in Long Kesh, | 0:07:33 | 0:07:35 | |
"would you like 20 years in Long Kesh, | 0:07:35 | 0:07:37 | |
"or on the other hand, would you like to become an informer?" | 0:07:37 | 0:07:40 | |
And, of course, there are benefits to being an informer | 0:07:40 | 0:07:43 | |
in terms of pay, in terms of the fact | 0:07:43 | 0:07:45 | |
that we guarantee we won't kill you. | 0:07:45 | 0:07:47 | |
Guarantee as best we could. | 0:07:49 | 0:07:51 | |
So it was a mixture of fear and greed. | 0:07:51 | 0:07:53 | |
But Frank Hegarty wasn't recruited by the police or the regular army. | 0:07:59 | 0:08:04 | |
He was working with a secretive army intelligence group | 0:08:04 | 0:08:07 | |
called the Force Research Unit, or FRU. | 0:08:07 | 0:08:10 | |
This is the very same organisation that ran IRA man Freddie Scappaticci. | 0:08:12 | 0:08:18 | |
Patrick Mercer worked alongside it. | 0:08:19 | 0:08:21 | |
Did they see themselves as being a force apart? | 0:08:23 | 0:08:26 | |
Well, they certainly saw themselves as being special troops. | 0:08:26 | 0:08:30 | |
They were used in a highly specialised fashion | 0:08:30 | 0:08:32 | |
and were extremely effective. | 0:08:32 | 0:08:34 | |
The Force Research Unit was centred at Thiepval Barracks in Lisburn. | 0:08:42 | 0:08:47 | |
From there, it ran agents such as Frank Hegarty | 0:08:47 | 0:08:50 | |
and Freddie Scappaticci, and many dozens of others too. | 0:08:50 | 0:08:54 | |
But the ethics of how to run these agents | 0:08:55 | 0:08:57 | |
was never going to be clear-cut. | 0:08:57 | 0:09:00 | |
If you allowed the agent to continue carrying on their operations, | 0:09:04 | 0:09:09 | |
then you were stuck in the position of what they were doing, | 0:09:09 | 0:09:13 | |
probably endangered the lives of policemen, soldiers | 0:09:13 | 0:09:15 | |
or other civilians. | 0:09:15 | 0:09:17 | |
On the other hand, if they didn't allow them to run, | 0:09:17 | 0:09:19 | |
you weren't going to get the intelligence that you wanted. | 0:09:19 | 0:09:21 | |
There were no... | 0:09:21 | 0:09:23 | |
There were no firm rules. | 0:09:23 | 0:09:25 | |
It wasn't the sort of thing | 0:09:25 | 0:09:26 | |
about which rules could be rigidly applied. | 0:09:26 | 0:09:29 | |
In the 1980s, successive Conservative governments | 0:09:33 | 0:09:36 | |
were asked, but declined, to bring in proper guidelines | 0:09:36 | 0:09:40 | |
on handling informers. | 0:09:40 | 0:09:41 | |
Recent enquiries suggest this explains, at least in part, | 0:09:43 | 0:09:47 | |
why some informants appeared to get away with murder. | 0:09:47 | 0:09:51 | |
Informants like, it is alleged, Freddie Scappaticci. | 0:09:55 | 0:09:59 | |
The Belfast man was an IRA veteran, twice interned in the 1970s. | 0:10:01 | 0:10:06 | |
He was in the same cage in Long Kesh, cage five. | 0:10:09 | 0:10:14 | |
He was a small, burly fellow. | 0:10:14 | 0:10:18 | |
Very tough, very self-assured, | 0:10:18 | 0:10:21 | |
and very quick to throw a punch in an argument. | 0:10:21 | 0:10:23 | |
In the late 1970s, when the IRA's Northern Command | 0:10:27 | 0:10:31 | |
set up its own dedicated internal security team, | 0:10:31 | 0:10:34 | |
Scappaticci joined it. | 0:10:34 | 0:10:36 | |
It was known as the Nutting Squad, | 0:10:38 | 0:10:41 | |
for shooting its victims through the head. | 0:10:41 | 0:10:44 | |
But Freddie Scappaticci's speciality wasn't killing people. | 0:10:49 | 0:10:53 | |
It was breaking them. | 0:10:53 | 0:10:55 | |
Former senior members of the IRA | 0:10:55 | 0:10:56 | |
have told me that he was the interrogator. | 0:10:56 | 0:11:00 | |
That was his job. | 0:11:00 | 0:11:01 | |
He had another job with the British Army, | 0:11:04 | 0:11:07 | |
where he was known as Stakeknife. | 0:11:07 | 0:11:10 | |
It was S-T-E-A-K K-N-I-F-E, | 0:11:12 | 0:11:15 | |
in other words, the instrument that you used | 0:11:15 | 0:11:17 | |
-for cutting a piece of steak. -How do you know that? | 0:11:17 | 0:11:19 | |
Because I saw that printed on several documents - | 0:11:19 | 0:11:21 | |
that the information had come from Agent Steak Knife. | 0:11:21 | 0:11:24 | |
You had came across Agent Steak Knife in your time...? | 0:11:24 | 0:11:27 | |
I saw the code word used. I never met the man. | 0:11:27 | 0:11:29 | |
Steak Knife was thought to be a very high-grade agent | 0:11:29 | 0:11:33 | |
who was producing very reliable intelligence. | 0:11:33 | 0:11:37 | |
I was never personally involved with Steak Knife, | 0:11:37 | 0:11:39 | |
but his reputation preceded him. | 0:11:39 | 0:11:41 | |
If Stakeknife, Freddie Scappaticci, was a star recruit | 0:11:44 | 0:11:47 | |
for military intelligence, then Frank Hegarty wasn't far behind. | 0:11:47 | 0:11:52 | |
By the mid-1980s, the Derry man was a key figure | 0:11:52 | 0:11:54 | |
in the IRA's efforts to procure and hide weapons, | 0:11:54 | 0:11:58 | |
part of its Quartermaster staff. | 0:11:58 | 0:12:01 | |
And because he was also a British Army agent, | 0:12:01 | 0:12:03 | |
the Security Forces would potentially have known | 0:12:03 | 0:12:06 | |
where many of those weapons ended up. | 0:12:06 | 0:12:08 | |
Intelligence experts say most informants have a best-by date. | 0:12:10 | 0:12:15 | |
And we now know Frank Hegarty's time was running out. | 0:12:15 | 0:12:19 | |
August 1985. | 0:12:23 | 0:12:25 | |
This boat, the Casamara, sails to Ireland | 0:12:26 | 0:12:29 | |
with a large shipment of weapons for the IRA. | 0:12:29 | 0:12:33 | |
It is the first of four such shipments, | 0:12:33 | 0:12:36 | |
all from Libya. | 0:12:36 | 0:12:37 | |
Some of the weapons are hidden in three arms dumps | 0:12:40 | 0:12:44 | |
in Sligo and Roscommon, south of the border. | 0:12:44 | 0:12:46 | |
Frank Hegarty, as part of the Quartermaster Team, is involved. | 0:12:48 | 0:12:51 | |
Just months later, Margaret Thatcher signs the Anglo-Irish agreement | 0:12:57 | 0:13:01 | |
with the Taoiseach, Garret FitzGerald. | 0:13:01 | 0:13:05 | |
We are both resolved to take every step | 0:13:05 | 0:13:07 | |
to end violence in Northern Ireland. | 0:13:07 | 0:13:10 | |
It marks a seismic shift in relations between the two islands. | 0:13:12 | 0:13:17 | |
But at the heart of the deal, from the British perspective, | 0:13:17 | 0:13:20 | |
is the promise of increased cooperation | 0:13:20 | 0:13:22 | |
in the battle against the IRA. | 0:13:22 | 0:13:24 | |
Two months later, Sunday morning, January 26th 1986, | 0:13:35 | 0:13:40 | |
Frank Hegarty is spirited out of Derry by his handlers. | 0:13:40 | 0:13:44 | |
Frank Hegarty was at the centre of a game of political chess, | 0:13:45 | 0:13:49 | |
and it seems in this game, | 0:13:49 | 0:13:51 | |
he was the pawn that was required to be sacrificed. | 0:13:51 | 0:13:54 | |
His information had been shared with the Dublin authorities. | 0:13:59 | 0:14:04 | |
The arms dumps were raided that same day. | 0:14:04 | 0:14:07 | |
-NEWS REPORTER: -More than 140 rifles and handguns were seized - | 0:14:11 | 0:14:15 | |
a serious blow to the IRA's terrorist campaign. | 0:14:15 | 0:14:18 | |
It is one of the biggest arms finds ever made in the Republic | 0:14:18 | 0:14:22 | |
and is the first major success for the Special Police Task Force | 0:14:22 | 0:14:26 | |
sent to border areas as a result of the Anglo-Irish Agreement. | 0:14:26 | 0:14:29 | |
The two governments celebrated the security success, | 0:14:31 | 0:14:35 | |
but Ryan Hegarty sees it differently. | 0:14:35 | 0:14:38 | |
My father was sacrificed to keep the Anglo-Irish Agreement alive. | 0:14:40 | 0:14:45 | |
-How do you work that out? -How do I work that out? | 0:14:48 | 0:14:50 | |
Because it would have proved to everybody... | 0:14:50 | 0:14:53 | |
..the public, that the authorities were getting tough on the IRA | 0:14:55 | 0:15:00 | |
with these weapons seizures. | 0:15:00 | 0:15:02 | |
In Derry, the IRA only took hours to work out who had betrayed them. | 0:15:04 | 0:15:10 | |
They kidnapped Frank Hegarty's family - | 0:15:10 | 0:15:13 | |
an insurance policy. | 0:15:13 | 0:15:15 | |
We were taken to Ballyshannon and held for ten days. | 0:15:22 | 0:15:26 | |
I just think they were holding us there | 0:15:26 | 0:15:27 | |
as some kind of bargaining chip. | 0:15:27 | 0:15:29 | |
-A bargaining chip? -Yes. | 0:15:29 | 0:15:31 | |
I think...they were afraid. | 0:15:32 | 0:15:36 | |
If he had went supergrass | 0:15:36 | 0:15:39 | |
or went into the witness box and talked, | 0:15:39 | 0:15:42 | |
a lot of people in high places | 0:15:42 | 0:15:43 | |
would have been...would have been or had gotten nervous, | 0:15:43 | 0:15:47 | |
so by taking us down there and holding us there, | 0:15:47 | 0:15:52 | |
that is what I believe what the IRA was up to. | 0:15:52 | 0:15:55 | |
The family were released unharmed. | 0:16:00 | 0:16:02 | |
Seven weeks later, Ryan's mother was flown to London to meet Frank. | 0:16:08 | 0:16:13 | |
British intelligence officers were there too. | 0:16:13 | 0:16:16 | |
They said to my mother... | 0:16:17 | 0:16:20 | |
They offered my mother over £100,000 | 0:16:20 | 0:16:23 | |
if she would go off with my father. | 0:16:23 | 0:16:25 | |
And she says she refused, | 0:16:27 | 0:16:29 | |
because she knew if she took the money, | 0:16:29 | 0:16:32 | |
she was never getting back to Derry again. | 0:16:32 | 0:16:34 | |
That was it. It was over. | 0:16:34 | 0:16:36 | |
Her life here was over, finished. | 0:16:36 | 0:16:39 | |
We'd have been looking over our shoulders | 0:16:39 | 0:16:41 | |
for the rest of our lives. | 0:16:41 | 0:16:43 | |
So what did she do? | 0:16:46 | 0:16:48 | |
She walked out on my father. | 0:16:49 | 0:16:52 | |
Did she make the right decision? | 0:16:52 | 0:16:54 | |
As a mother, yes. | 0:16:54 | 0:16:56 | |
My mother was thinking about us. | 0:16:56 | 0:16:58 | |
April 1986. | 0:17:06 | 0:17:09 | |
Frank Hegarty returns to Derry. | 0:17:09 | 0:17:12 | |
His family have long insisted | 0:17:12 | 0:17:15 | |
that Republican leader Martin McGuinness | 0:17:15 | 0:17:17 | |
persuaded him to come back, assuring him he would be safe. | 0:17:17 | 0:17:23 | |
He came back for my mother, he came back for me | 0:17:23 | 0:17:25 | |
and he came back for my sister, cos he missed us, | 0:17:25 | 0:17:29 | |
which any father would. | 0:17:29 | 0:17:30 | |
Was he foolish to come back? | 0:17:30 | 0:17:32 | |
Very. | 0:17:32 | 0:17:33 | |
Frank Hegarty spent the next three weeks | 0:17:38 | 0:17:41 | |
hiding in a room in his mother's home. | 0:17:41 | 0:17:43 | |
'Ryan saw him just the once - | 0:18:07 | 0:18:10 | |
'a planned trip to an ancient fort in nearby Donegal, | 0:18:10 | 0:18:13 | |
'Grianan Ailigh.' | 0:18:13 | 0:18:15 | |
-It's an impressive place. -It is. It's lovely. | 0:18:15 | 0:18:19 | |
But it's very sad for me. | 0:18:19 | 0:18:20 | |
It's where you last saw your dad. | 0:18:20 | 0:18:22 | |
I remember it well. | 0:18:23 | 0:18:25 | |
We walked around, we just walked round there. | 0:18:27 | 0:18:31 | |
He took my hand and we just walked around it. | 0:18:31 | 0:18:33 | |
I can remember it, because I mind the clothes that I was wearing. | 0:18:35 | 0:18:39 | |
-He was in disguise. -In disguise? | 0:18:40 | 0:18:42 | |
Yeah. Cos he didn't usually wear... | 0:18:42 | 0:18:46 | |
-..sunglasses. -So he had sunglasses on? | 0:18:48 | 0:18:51 | |
And he had a flat cap on him and a brown leather coat. | 0:18:51 | 0:18:55 | |
I think he was happy that he saw us. | 0:19:00 | 0:19:03 | |
He was happy. | 0:19:03 | 0:19:05 | |
The following day, | 0:19:11 | 0:19:12 | |
Frank Hegarty met with the IRA | 0:19:12 | 0:19:14 | |
at a hotel car park in Buncrana, County Donegal. | 0:19:14 | 0:19:18 | |
He was taken away and not seen by his family again. | 0:19:19 | 0:19:22 | |
He could have stayed in England. | 0:19:25 | 0:19:27 | |
He could have stayed where he was, but he came down here to... | 0:19:27 | 0:19:31 | |
He came down here and faced them. | 0:19:31 | 0:19:33 | |
He faced them. | 0:19:33 | 0:19:36 | |
That's being very brave, in my eyes. | 0:19:36 | 0:19:39 | |
The army agent was going to his death and may well have known it. | 0:19:44 | 0:19:48 | |
What he didn't know was that another army agent | 0:19:50 | 0:19:53 | |
was almost certainly waiting to interrogate him - | 0:19:53 | 0:19:56 | |
Freddie Scappaticci. | 0:19:56 | 0:19:58 | |
Ryan says it was a rendezvous with death. | 0:19:59 | 0:20:02 | |
Three days later, Frank Hegarty was found dead on the border, | 0:20:14 | 0:20:19 | |
shot four times in the head. | 0:20:19 | 0:20:22 | |
Ryan believes military intelligence could have saved him | 0:20:22 | 0:20:26 | |
but chose not to. | 0:20:26 | 0:20:27 | |
They washed their hands of my father, I believe. | 0:20:29 | 0:20:32 | |
But what of Freddie Scappaticci's role? | 0:20:38 | 0:20:40 | |
The man accused of overseeing multiple murders | 0:20:41 | 0:20:45 | |
was secretly recorded explaining how and why Frank Hegarty was killed. | 0:20:45 | 0:20:50 | |
'We played the recording to Ryan | 0:20:53 | 0:20:55 | |
'and clearly heard a man asking Freddie Scappaticci | 0:20:55 | 0:20:59 | |
'about his father.' | 0:20:59 | 0:21:00 | |
It gets to the stage where he starts to talk about your dad. | 0:21:03 | 0:21:07 | |
Freddie Scappaticci was then asked | 0:21:26 | 0:21:28 | |
how he knew about Frank Hegarty's death. | 0:21:28 | 0:21:31 | |
As far as Ryan is concerned, | 0:21:40 | 0:21:42 | |
this is evidence that Freddie Scappaticci | 0:21:42 | 0:21:45 | |
was instrumental in his father's murder, | 0:21:45 | 0:21:48 | |
and whatever he knew, so did his handlers. | 0:21:48 | 0:21:51 | |
When my father went to meet the IRA, | 0:21:53 | 0:21:56 | |
Freddie Scappaticci would have had informed, | 0:21:56 | 0:22:00 | |
or would have had the information, his handlers... | 0:22:00 | 0:22:03 | |
What the procedure was, | 0:22:05 | 0:22:08 | |
where they were going to take my father, | 0:22:08 | 0:22:11 | |
who was all there... | 0:22:11 | 0:22:13 | |
..and what was going to happen to him. | 0:22:14 | 0:22:17 | |
They would have known everything. | 0:22:17 | 0:22:19 | |
Key members of the Force Research Unit | 0:22:23 | 0:22:26 | |
would later receive a slew of promotions | 0:22:26 | 0:22:29 | |
and a raft of Queen's medals. | 0:22:29 | 0:22:31 | |
But the unit was also coming in for scrutiny. | 0:22:36 | 0:22:39 | |
In 1989, a senior English policeman, Sir John Stevens, | 0:22:40 | 0:22:45 | |
began investigating allegations of collusion. | 0:22:45 | 0:22:48 | |
Remarkably, at first, | 0:22:48 | 0:22:50 | |
the British Army lied to his investigators, | 0:22:50 | 0:22:54 | |
claiming they didn't run any informants - none. | 0:22:54 | 0:22:57 | |
In 2003, Sir John Stevens completed his third inquiry, | 0:23:01 | 0:23:06 | |
concluding, in fact, that there was widespread collusion | 0:23:06 | 0:23:09 | |
between loyalists and the security forces. | 0:23:09 | 0:23:12 | |
This was when, for the first time, | 0:23:12 | 0:23:15 | |
he confirmed that Stakeknife was on his radar. | 0:23:15 | 0:23:19 | |
In relation to the so-called Agent Stakeknife - | 0:23:19 | 0:23:22 | |
yes, we are investigating those matters. | 0:23:22 | 0:23:24 | |
Soon after, Freddie Scappaticci was outed as Stakeknife. | 0:23:27 | 0:23:32 | |
But unlike many other alleged informers, | 0:23:32 | 0:23:35 | |
he was given the benefit of the doubt by senior Republicans. | 0:23:35 | 0:23:39 | |
What we are dealing with is unsourced, | 0:23:39 | 0:23:41 | |
unsubstantiated accusations and let me repeat again, | 0:23:41 | 0:23:44 | |
large sections of the media, unprecedented | 0:23:44 | 0:23:47 | |
in this case, named the person and followed up these accusations | 0:23:47 | 0:23:51 | |
as if they were fact, | 0:23:51 | 0:23:53 | |
yet no proof has been brought forward. | 0:23:53 | 0:23:55 | |
Behind the scenes, | 0:23:58 | 0:23:59 | |
Sir John Stevens geared up for another major investigation - | 0:23:59 | 0:24:03 | |
Stevens 4. | 0:24:03 | 0:24:05 | |
That investigation's going ahead, | 0:24:05 | 0:24:06 | |
we're getting together the documentation, | 0:24:06 | 0:24:09 | |
we've got a team of 28 officers working on that | 0:24:09 | 0:24:11 | |
and in due course, we'll be reporting | 0:24:11 | 0:24:13 | |
to the Director of Prosecutions. | 0:24:13 | 0:24:15 | |
But that's not what happened - no paperwork ever reached the DPP. | 0:24:16 | 0:24:20 | |
Instead, the investigation ended, | 0:24:20 | 0:24:23 | |
all the paperwork and files on 25 cases | 0:24:23 | 0:24:26 | |
were sent on to the newly formed Historical Inquiries Team. | 0:24:26 | 0:24:30 | |
Over the next years, the HIT sent on | 0:24:30 | 0:24:32 | |
18 cases to the Police Ombudsman for investigation | 0:24:32 | 0:24:36 | |
but the ombudsman can only investigate the police - | 0:24:36 | 0:24:39 | |
no-one else. | 0:24:39 | 0:24:40 | |
Michael Maguire believed more was at stake. | 0:24:43 | 0:24:47 | |
There were other agencies involved, | 0:24:47 | 0:24:49 | |
so by looking exclusively at the police, | 0:24:49 | 0:24:51 | |
that was only a partial picture | 0:24:51 | 0:24:53 | |
which is why we began to take a broader view | 0:24:53 | 0:24:56 | |
of what was happening. | 0:24:56 | 0:24:57 | |
His office had spent two years reviewing Stakeknife. | 0:24:59 | 0:25:02 | |
The final report put a spotlight on the intelligence services | 0:25:04 | 0:25:07 | |
and their agent. | 0:25:07 | 0:25:09 | |
The allegations that we're dealing with aren't just about the police, | 0:25:11 | 0:25:14 | |
which is solely within my remit, | 0:25:14 | 0:25:16 | |
but potentially involving other agencies as well | 0:25:16 | 0:25:18 | |
and indeed individuals who actively participated in murder. | 0:25:18 | 0:25:22 | |
It raises very serious questions about the nature | 0:25:22 | 0:25:24 | |
of the relationship with people | 0:25:24 | 0:25:26 | |
who are alleged to be informers - | 0:25:26 | 0:25:27 | |
whether those individuals are protected from justice | 0:25:27 | 0:25:30 | |
as a consequence for being an informant. | 0:25:30 | 0:25:32 | |
Finally, on June 18th last, | 0:25:34 | 0:25:36 | |
the Director of Public Prosecutions was called in and shown the report. | 0:25:36 | 0:25:41 | |
I was profoundly shocked about the sheer scale | 0:25:43 | 0:25:47 | |
of the criminal...alleged criminal conduct of the agent. | 0:25:47 | 0:25:54 | |
That in itself raises some significant questions | 0:25:54 | 0:25:58 | |
about where the...responsibility for the criminal conduct lies, | 0:25:58 | 0:26:03 | |
beyond the agent's personal responsibility. | 0:26:03 | 0:26:07 | |
-It also... -What do you mean by that? | 0:26:08 | 0:26:11 | |
Well, the... | 0:26:11 | 0:26:14 | |
These individuals don't work on their own. They... | 0:26:14 | 0:26:17 | |
They are...people who are permitted | 0:26:17 | 0:26:23 | |
to act in the way they act | 0:26:23 | 0:26:25 | |
by those who manage them within the security services, | 0:26:25 | 0:26:32 | |
and military intelligence. | 0:26:32 | 0:26:35 | |
So, it raised questions as to where the ultimate accountability lay | 0:26:35 | 0:26:43 | |
for the apparent criminal conduct of the agent. | 0:26:43 | 0:26:47 | |
'The DPP says that this should all have been dealt with years ago.' | 0:26:49 | 0:26:54 | |
Should the police have pushed this investigation back in 2003? | 0:26:54 | 0:26:58 | |
This investigation should have been taken forward | 0:26:58 | 0:27:03 | |
thoroughly and expeditiously as soon as the information became known | 0:27:03 | 0:27:08 | |
to those whose statutory responsibility it was | 0:27:08 | 0:27:11 | |
to carry out investigations. | 0:27:11 | 0:27:13 | |
-That's the police. -That's the police. | 0:27:13 | 0:27:15 | |
Sir Hugh Orde was the Chief Constable then. | 0:27:21 | 0:27:24 | |
He told us that the current Chief Constable could speak for him. | 0:27:24 | 0:27:28 | |
Shouldn't a comprehensive investigation have begun | 0:27:30 | 0:27:32 | |
much earlier than this? | 0:27:32 | 0:27:33 | |
You're talking about as many as 50 killings. | 0:27:33 | 0:27:36 | |
I have said many times I'm not going to try to defend the indefensible, | 0:27:36 | 0:27:40 | |
but it would also be wrong to say there has been no investigation | 0:27:40 | 0:27:43 | |
or that people have not acted with integrity around this. | 0:27:43 | 0:27:46 | |
There has been no comprehensive investigation into Stakeknife | 0:27:46 | 0:27:50 | |
since those allegations were first become known generally - | 0:27:50 | 0:27:53 | |
to the police and to the public, indeed, back in 2003. | 0:27:53 | 0:27:56 | |
There have been individual investigations | 0:27:56 | 0:27:59 | |
where the person known as Stakeknife has been a suspect | 0:27:59 | 0:28:01 | |
that have been thoroughly investigated. | 0:28:01 | 0:28:03 | |
I'm not trying to say that the job was done | 0:28:03 | 0:28:06 | |
and that this is a misunderstanding - | 0:28:06 | 0:28:08 | |
the Police Ombudsman, the Director and I share a concern about this. | 0:28:08 | 0:28:12 | |
The Chief Constable says | 0:28:15 | 0:28:16 | |
the investigation will span the years 1978 to 1995. | 0:28:16 | 0:28:22 | |
The problem I have at the minute, this is so big, | 0:28:24 | 0:28:27 | |
it's so vast-ranging, | 0:28:27 | 0:28:28 | |
it's a time period of about 17 years - | 0:28:28 | 0:28:31 | |
everyone is fixated on the individual | 0:28:31 | 0:28:34 | |
known as the agent Stakeknife, | 0:28:34 | 0:28:37 | |
and I'm quite sure he will be the subject of investigative rigour, | 0:28:37 | 0:28:40 | |
but actually there will be other suspects in all of this, | 0:28:40 | 0:28:43 | |
and there will be implications for other people in all of this. | 0:28:43 | 0:28:46 | |
All this will take resources - money - which is in short supply. | 0:28:48 | 0:28:52 | |
-Do you have the resources to do such an investigation right now? -No. | 0:28:54 | 0:28:58 | |
Or anything like the resources? | 0:28:58 | 0:28:59 | |
No. | 0:28:59 | 0:29:00 | |
The Secretary of State doesn't seem enthusiastic to help. | 0:29:04 | 0:29:08 | |
She told Spotlight funding was a matter for the PSNI. | 0:29:09 | 0:29:12 | |
But after years of silence, | 0:29:18 | 0:29:20 | |
the relatives of Scappaticci's victims have found their voice. | 0:29:20 | 0:29:25 | |
People like Frank Mulhern, whose son was shot dead in 1993. | 0:29:26 | 0:29:30 | |
The PSNI here have had long enough to investigate this, | 0:29:32 | 0:29:35 | |
and they haven't done a thing. | 0:29:35 | 0:29:36 | |
So it needs to be an independent police force. | 0:29:36 | 0:29:40 | |
It seems the families are pushing at an open door. | 0:29:41 | 0:29:44 | |
I accept - and realistic - that it is unlikely that the PSNI | 0:29:45 | 0:29:49 | |
would garner the confidence and the support | 0:29:49 | 0:29:51 | |
from families of those who have lost their lives | 0:29:51 | 0:29:54 | |
to do this investigation at this point in time. | 0:29:54 | 0:29:58 | |
So, if that's the case, we need to look at other options, | 0:29:58 | 0:30:00 | |
and those are things I need to talk to the Northern Ireland Office | 0:30:00 | 0:30:04 | |
and the Department of Justice about. | 0:30:04 | 0:30:05 | |
Sources have told the BBC | 0:30:09 | 0:30:11 | |
that one option may see as many as 50 detectives | 0:30:11 | 0:30:14 | |
drafted in from across the UK. | 0:30:14 | 0:30:17 | |
The investigation could run for five years. | 0:30:17 | 0:30:20 | |
The Ministry of Defence has told us that collusion in murder | 0:30:25 | 0:30:29 | |
never was and never can be acceptable. | 0:30:29 | 0:30:32 | |
Any such allegations should be investigated. | 0:30:32 | 0:30:35 | |
We put a number of questions to Martin McGuinness. | 0:30:39 | 0:30:42 | |
Today, he told us that he had absolutely no role | 0:30:42 | 0:30:45 | |
in the death of Frank Hegarty. | 0:30:45 | 0:30:47 | |
It's almost 30 years | 0:30:57 | 0:30:59 | |
since Frank Hegarty was driven along this same road outside Castlederg, | 0:30:59 | 0:31:05 | |
skirting the Tyrone-Donegal border. | 0:31:05 | 0:31:08 | |
It's pretty isolated. | 0:31:11 | 0:31:12 | |
His last moments on this...this earth. | 0:31:14 | 0:31:18 | |
-You haven't been here before... -Never, this is my first time. | 0:31:35 | 0:31:38 | |
..but still, you're able to point out the spot. | 0:31:38 | 0:31:41 | |
Oh, aye. Definitely. I seen it on the TV. | 0:31:41 | 0:31:44 | |
Where the British Intelligence | 0:31:46 | 0:31:49 | |
dug his grave, | 0:31:49 | 0:31:51 | |
and the IRA put him into it. | 0:31:51 | 0:31:52 | |
If the allegations surrounding Stakeknife are true, | 0:32:05 | 0:32:09 | |
it suggests the State was associated with murder | 0:32:09 | 0:32:13 | |
on an industrial scale. | 0:32:13 | 0:32:15 | |
As every day passes, | 0:32:21 | 0:32:23 | |
the failure of the State to get to the bottom of these allegations | 0:32:23 | 0:32:27 | |
becomes more glaring. | 0:32:27 | 0:32:29 | |
Truth, if it comes, will come dropping slow. | 0:32:31 | 0:32:35 |