Browse content similar to 29/01/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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David Cameron thinks they're a good idea, so why does Derby's Chief | :01:19. | :01:25. | |
Constable think that commissioners should come with a health warning? | :01:26. | :01:35. | |
:01:36. | :01:36. | ||
Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2020 seconds | :01:36. | :35:16. | |
Hello, I'm Marie Ashby. The East Midlands is clearly the place to be | :35:16. | :35:20. | |
after that massive Lottery win. Later we'll be asking if elected | :35:20. | :35:23. | |
police commissioners could be too much of a gamble. Why a | :35:24. | :35:26. | |
Conservative city council leader insists they should come with a | :35:26. | :35:33. | |
health warning. And a warm welcome to our guests | :35:33. | :35:36. | |
this week. The Labour MP for Bassetlaw, John Mann and Andrew | :35:36. | :35:40. | |
Bridgen, the Conservative MP in North-West Leicestershire. Both | :35:40. | :35:43. | |
have a reputation for tough talking, so this should be interesting. | :35:43. | :35:46. | |
Before we get down to it, the story everyone's been talking about. The | :35:46. | :35:49. | |
Mansfield couple just down the road from you, John, who've won �40 | :35:49. | :35:58. | |
million on the Lottery. To make matters worse, they look so nice! | :35:58. | :36:06. | |
What would you do with that kind of money, �40 million? I would try to | :36:06. | :36:13. | |
go up town and get a bit of a break with my wife. A tiny proportion of | :36:13. | :36:17. | |
that would assist. The you might be right. What about you, Andrew? | :36:17. | :36:23. | |
design and a marginal -- it is an unimaginable amount of money. I am | :36:23. | :36:29. | |
really pleased for them. In our society if you worked and earned | :36:29. | :36:32. | |
�40 million through your own endeavours, you would pay 50% of it | :36:32. | :36:38. | |
intact but if you win it just by pure luck, you get away with a tax- | :36:38. | :36:41. | |
free. I don't know what message we are sending out. I don't think that | :36:41. | :36:45. | |
is a worry they have. Would you handed back to the Exchequer? | :36:45. | :36:49. | |
would give a lot to charity. Onto more serious stuff. You've | :36:49. | :36:51. | |
been critical of Ed Miliband's leadership of the Labour Party | :36:51. | :36:54. | |
recently, John. Anything to do with the fact that you're sponsored as | :36:54. | :37:01. | |
an MP by the GMB union? constituency receives lots of money | :37:01. | :37:07. | |
from individuals, businessman and from unions and if any out there | :37:07. | :37:12. | |
wants to give more, as long as they are honest, I am sure my party | :37:12. | :37:16. | |
would want to take it. You are on record saying that you need a | :37:16. | :37:19. | |
coherent deficit reduction plan, you sound like he has not got a | :37:20. | :37:25. | |
plan. He has got one but it is not coherent enough. That is why he is | :37:25. | :37:28. | |
lagging in the opinion polls. I think we need something coherent. I | :37:28. | :37:33. | |
don't think it is fully coherent yet and I am willing to assist him. | :37:33. | :37:38. | |
I put down some bills on what could be cut from public spending, 27 | :37:39. | :37:42. | |
girls and if he is wise he will adopt them. And if the Tory liberal | :37:42. | :37:47. | |
coalition is wise, they will pinch a few of my ideas. At untrue, on | :37:47. | :37:52. | |
union sponsorship, nothing wrong with unions sponsoring MPs -- | :37:52. | :37:55. | |
Andrew, on union sponsorship. think there is a subtle difference. | :37:55. | :38:03. | |
Only 10% of the population are in the unions. The Labour Party has | :38:03. | :38:11. | |
been in the pockets of the unions for a long time.A member of two | :38:11. | :38:16. | |
unions, Unite and GMB and a liaison officer for the unions with the | :38:16. | :38:21. | |
Labour Party. I run a small business as well, business people | :38:21. | :38:26. | |
and trade unions assist in getting the re-elected. And if that was | :38:26. | :38:30. | |
happening that would be fine, but it is not. As a General Secretary | :38:30. | :38:35. | |
said, the unions have input to policy making at every single level. | :38:35. | :38:41. | |
That is why you have not got a single deficit reduction plan. His | :38:41. | :38:47. | |
the union members had a greater say, what union members would be saying. | :38:47. | :38:51. | |
It would be similar to me. A does not make sense to cut the police. | :38:51. | :38:54. | |
Cuts can be made that could go a lot further but we should be | :38:54. | :38:58. | |
spelling them out. That is precisely why I have put 27 built | :38:58. | :39:02. | |
into Parliament on what could be cut without affecting people in | :39:02. | :39:08. | |
this area. -- 27 bells. Debt hit one trillion pounds last week. What | :39:08. | :39:11. | |
level of national debt do you think we should live to our children and | :39:11. | :39:16. | |
grandchildren? I think we should be doing President Obama is now doing | :39:16. | :39:20. | |
in America, where the economy is growing, stimulate the economy by | :39:20. | :39:24. | |
creating more businesses, making sure people have got money to spend | :39:24. | :39:28. | |
and ensuring that our children have jobs. People with jobs pay taxes | :39:28. | :39:34. | |
and that is... The Labour line is we will still try to borrow our way | :39:34. | :39:39. | |
out of a debt crisis? If it is good enough for Obama... I am not sure | :39:39. | :39:43. | |
you should be advising Ed Miliband. I didn't think he would be a green | :39:43. | :39:47. | |
of this. Let's move on. Before we move onto another | :39:47. | :39:49. | |
controversial area, police commissioners, let's see if there's | :39:49. | :39:52. | |
something we can get you to agree on. This week, Derbyshire Chief | :39:52. | :39:55. | |
Fire Officer, Sean Frayne, called for it to be compulsory for all new | :39:55. | :39:58. | |
homes to be fitted with fire sprinklers. It follows the deaths | :39:58. | :40:01. | |
of four children in a blaze at their home near Ashbourne. And it | :40:01. | :40:06. | |
probably started because there was no fire guard in the living room. | :40:06. | :40:07. | |
The Inside Out programme demonstrated the dramatic | :40:07. | :40:11. | |
difference sprinklers can make. The room on the left had them, the one | :40:11. | :40:21. | |
:40:21. | :40:21. | ||
And when you see what difference sprinklers make, surely it is a no- | :40:21. | :40:26. | |
brainer. All new homes should have them fitted? Homes of a certain | :40:26. | :40:29. | |
size with a certain number of have intense have compulsory sprinklers | :40:29. | :40:39. | |
at the moment. -- a certain number of inhabitants. I would maintain | :40:39. | :40:44. | |
that most fires are probably in older houses with defective wiring. | :40:44. | :40:48. | |
It will not address that problem at all. It is a very long term | :40:48. | :40:52. | |
solution. But it would have helped in this particular case. How old | :40:52. | :40:56. | |
was the House? And give it is not maintained, will they maintain the | :40:56. | :41:06. | |
:41:06. | :41:07. | ||
sprinklers? De year a grey with -- do you agree with the Derbyshire | :41:07. | :41:14. | |
Fire Commission that all new houses should have sprinklers? People are | :41:14. | :41:18. | |
putting their lives on the line, it could make a huge difference and | :41:18. | :41:21. | |
would certainly save lives and it is certainly worth considering. | :41:21. | :41:25. | |
are not talking about a huge amount of money, Andrew, we are talking | :41:25. | :41:29. | |
about �1,500 and �2,000. If that will save lives? That is for new | :41:29. | :41:34. | |
houses and how many new houses are we building's a couple of 1,000 a | :41:34. | :41:41. | |
year. It will take a long time to filter through. they cannot be used | :41:41. | :41:45. | |
as an excuse to cut back on fire services. The risk is old houses. | :41:45. | :41:51. | |
That is not what the Fire Service says, there has not been a single | :41:51. | :41:55. | |
death in a house with sprinklers they did. How many have got | :41:55. | :41:59. | |
sprinklers fitted? I do not know. The cost will come down because the | :41:59. | :42:03. | |
fire risk is an insurance risk so if this is done in a big scale, it | :42:03. | :42:09. | |
could well be self-funding. local councils can do it themselves. | :42:09. | :42:13. | |
In it was worth it in every new building, there would be economies | :42:13. | :42:18. | |
of scale that of sound like a good idea to move. You would get local | :42:18. | :42:22. | |
authorities looking at this? should do. We will look at it. | :42:22. | :42:25. | |
Next, they're already compulsory and by the end of this year we'll | :42:25. | :42:28. | |
all have one. I'm talking elected police commissioners. But as our | :42:28. | :42:30. | |
political editor, John Hess, reports, the very idea is already | :42:30. | :42:34. | |
causing tensions within the coalition and Labour ranks. | :42:34. | :42:38. | |
Here's a job opportunity you won't find in the papers. Salary, just | :42:38. | :42:43. | |
over �75,000. Job secured for four years and the option of a further | :42:43. | :42:51. | |
four years. And the perks? For starters, your own police force. | :42:51. | :42:54. | |
The job is Police and Crime Commissioner. There'll be one for | :42:54. | :42:57. | |
each county force in England and Wales. They won't replace chief | :42:57. | :42:59. | |
constables, they'll still retain day-to-day operational | :42:59. | :43:01. | |
responsibilities but the commissioner - directly elected by | :43:01. | :43:04. | |
local voters - will shape force strategy, budgets and ask those | :43:04. | :43:14. | |
:43:14. | :43:20. | ||
It's one of David Cameron's big ideas. I want there to be police | :43:20. | :43:23. | |
commissioners so when they do a good job calling the police to | :43:23. | :43:26. | |
account and are fighting crime in the way local people want, they get | :43:26. | :43:30. | |
re-elected and if they do a bad job, they will get thrown out. But this | :43:31. | :43:39. | |
senior East Midlands Tory isn't convinced. Community | :43:40. | :43:46. | |
representatives soon to be replaced by a commissioner. He will services | :43:46. | :43:54. | |
a manifesto. -- He or she will say, "this is the manifesto I was | :43:54. | :43:57. | |
elected on as Chief Constable", now you will now deliver these things. | :43:57. | :44:07. | |
:44:07. | :44:08. | ||
It's going to up the ante. And the person in charge of police | :44:08. | :44:12. | |
operating for accounting. It's back on the political beat for Paddy | :44:12. | :44:14. | |
Tipping. He's a former Labour MP embracing the Conservatives' big | :44:14. | :44:19. | |
idea of elected police commissioners. He's planning to run | :44:19. | :44:24. | |
in November's election for the Nottinghamshire job. There is a | :44:24. | :44:28. | |
police authority with a lot of people but it's got no real focus. | :44:28. | :44:31. | |
There's a difference between a police authority making policy and | :44:31. | :44:33. | |
police commissioner who's directly elected and more accountable to | :44:33. | :44:43. | |
:44:43. | :44:47. | ||
local people. I am out and about already, I am talking to people. | :44:47. | :44:51. | |
What they want his neighbourhood policing, crime to go down. | :44:51. | :44:54. | |
Nottinghamshire Police have made improvement but there's a lot to do. | :44:54. | :44:59. | |
By and it is that a political edge that worries the Police Federation. | :44:59. | :45:03. | |
With an elected commissioner, he will have temptations to meddle | :45:03. | :45:09. | |
with operational concern. But is a concern. It is. You have then a | :45:09. | :45:11. | |
political interference and control over policing and we are supposed | :45:11. | :45:17. | |
to be independent. That could lead to a serious bust up. The potential | :45:17. | :45:21. | |
is that you have one individual elected on commitments that are | :45:21. | :45:26. | |
inevitably going to be about operational policing matters. | :45:26. | :45:29. | |
When of course operational policing matters are the responsibility of | :45:29. | :45:33. | |
the Chief Constable. The potential there is for a level of conflict | :45:33. | :45:36. | |
which not be good for local police to. Greater scrutiny and | :45:37. | :45:41. | |
accountability. The police face a new investigator. The commission is | :45:41. | :45:45. | |
on their case. Let's round up the political week | :45:45. | :45:54. | |
in the East Midlands in 60 Seconds Paddy Tipping thinks it is a good | :45:54. | :45:59. | |
idea. What a bad idea, what a waste of money. Politicians sticking | :45:59. | :46:04. | |
their nosed into matters. Is that how you see it? Total waste of time. | :46:04. | :46:08. | |
We do not need more politicians, this is more politicians. We do not | :46:08. | :46:12. | |
need them sticking their nose into the running of the police, it is a | :46:12. | :46:16. | |
terrible idea, a total waste of money. The waste of time, waste of | :46:16. | :46:22. | |
money, Andrew? You said plenty of ex-Labour politicians interested in | :46:22. | :46:29. | |
the position. There is not a national solution to crime, | :46:29. | :46:35. | |
problems in different areas from different areas and it allows for | :46:35. | :46:38. | |
localisation of priorities and resources to address local issues. | :46:38. | :46:42. | |
We talked about the cost and it is claimed that bringing the system in | :46:42. | :46:48. | |
could cost �100 million. Not at all. At the same time, police forces are | :46:48. | :46:52. | |
having to lose hundreds of officers. The election will cost about �50 | :46:52. | :46:56. | |
million nationally every four years which is 0.1% of the police budget | :46:56. | :47:00. | |
and that will not be borne by local constabularies or councils, it will | :47:00. | :47:04. | |
be paid for by government. We will not have to save much on efficiency | :47:04. | :47:08. | |
to save that much. And the commissioner will be replacing the | :47:08. | :47:11. | |
police authorities so there is a cost there. He is making it sound | :47:11. | :47:16. | |
easy. The figures we were given is something like 100 million as well | :47:16. | :47:19. | |
which would employ something like 1,000 extra police officers across | :47:19. | :47:23. | |
the country. We have just seen the figures for the amount of stuff we | :47:23. | :47:28. | |
have lost, 6,000 already. Estimated to lose another 16,000 nationally. | :47:28. | :47:32. | |
We are saying this is not necessarily the right time to do it, | :47:32. | :47:35. | |
let's spend the money on actual police officer numbers to maintain | :47:35. | :47:42. | |
the games we have made in crime numbers. Is this a price worth | :47:42. | :47:50. | |
paying? You already have the democratic accountability. Police | :47:50. | :47:56. | |
authorities have worked well and they represent the Spectrum's of | :47:56. | :48:02. | |
politics. Their work without lay members on there. You will still | :48:02. | :48:05. | |
have that player with these new police and Crown Commissioners | :48:05. | :48:11. | |
because they will set up police and crime panels beneath them -- crime | :48:11. | :48:14. | |
commissioners. The money that Andrew is suggesting that could be | :48:14. | :48:18. | |
saved will not be saved because they are still there, you are | :48:18. | :48:21. | |
adding an extra layer of bureaucracy. Do you need that when | :48:21. | :48:27. | |
you're trying to fight crime and crime is going up? Police and crime | :48:27. | :48:30. | |
commissioners will have set out their manifestos set in their | :48:30. | :48:33. | |
budget for the area and also their priorities and that will be | :48:33. | :48:36. | |
endorsed by the people. But his local democracy working. You are | :48:36. | :48:40. | |
not just worried about the time involved and the money, you are | :48:40. | :48:44. | |
worried also that the commissioners may medal in the general policy. | :48:44. | :48:49. | |
Andrew has alluded to, they will have an agenda and what about that | :48:49. | :48:53. | |
happens to be when they are elected, it could be with a low turnout | :48:53. | :49:00. | |
could be a single issue. There's real dangers for the rest of the | :49:00. | :49:06. | |
county which could have funding and policing withdrawn on the back of | :49:06. | :49:11. | |
whatever small minority has voted the commissioner in. A low turnout | :49:11. | :49:18. | |
would not be good, I would agree. Philip Hicks and in our film was a | :49:18. | :49:22. | |
word that he would end up politicising the police. It will go | :49:22. | :49:27. | |
the other way. It pulled not be controlled by Whitehall, it will be | :49:27. | :49:32. | |
controlled by the local people -- it will not be controlled by | :49:32. | :49:37. | |
Whitehall. Focusing hard on the big issues, something police | :49:37. | :49:42. | |
authorities failed to do. There will always be somebody who wants | :49:42. | :49:47. | |
the job. You seen their merit in it was Mark I don't think anyone in my | :49:47. | :49:52. | |
area wants to see money spent on elected politician rather than that | :49:52. | :49:57. | |
money be spent on extra police that we have lost from the area. Just | :49:57. | :50:03. | |
the cost in Bassetlaw is the equivalent of four police officers. | :50:03. | :50:06. | |
Nobody in Bassetlaw would rather have this ridiculous election and | :50:06. | :50:09. | |
all the wasted money and bureaucracy rather than the four | :50:09. | :50:13. | |
police officers. That goes across the whole of the country. It is a | :50:13. | :50:22. | |
gimmick, a bad gimmick. Sorry to interrupt, John, but we already | :50:22. | :50:29. | |
have one of the most accountable police forces. We are accountable | :50:29. | :50:33. | |
to HMRC, the Independent Police Complaints Commission. And the | :50:33. | :50:38. | |
police authorities that are already set up. And we have Freedom of | :50:38. | :50:44. | |
Information Act request that we are accountable to the public. We are | :50:44. | :50:48. | |
open to the public and to introduce an Americanised model would have | :50:48. | :50:52. | |
some real dangers. Do not get me wrong, we will work with whoever | :50:52. | :50:56. | |
the Government appoints because it is the Government's decision. | :50:56. | :51:02. | |
would have to. It is for politicians to decide and we will | :51:02. | :51:06. | |
work with whatever. -- you would have to. You do not want another | :51:06. | :51:11. | |
layer? With the consent of the people, what better way of getting | :51:11. | :51:15. | |
that and having locally elected police commissioners elected by the | :51:15. | :51:21. | |
people they are there to serve? is purely a gimmick. We do not want | :51:21. | :51:24. | |
politicians meddling with the police. We do not want money taken | :51:24. | :51:29. | |
away from the police and wasted in this way. We can hold the police | :51:29. | :51:33. | |
accountable at as it is. You what an efficient police service serving | :51:33. | :51:36. | |
our communities and this distract from eight and takes resources away | :51:37. | :51:41. | |
from it. Do you think people watching will think this is bad | :51:41. | :51:46. | |
timing? Women need to fight crime, you are talking about spending this | :51:46. | :51:53. | |
money which we cannot afford? not a huge amount, it is 0.1%. | :51:53. | :51:57. | |
1,000 police officers across the country, but is the size of a small | :51:57. | :52:07. | |
:52:07. | :52:11. | ||
shire force. That is a huge amount. This is the fact that the Labour | :52:11. | :52:16. | |
Party run their country into a huge debt... More members see that as | :52:16. | :52:20. | |
losing their jobs, jobs going in order to pay for a couple of | :52:20. | :52:25. | |
politicians to be put in their place. That... 1,000 police | :52:25. | :52:28. | |
officers would be on the streets keeping this country safer if we | :52:28. | :52:32. | |
did not use this money. Also a bigger thing that the commissioner | :52:32. | :52:39. | |
has also got, the power to divert money into other community schemes. | :52:39. | :52:43. | |
If he is elected on manifesto for a particular electorate, there's a | :52:43. | :52:48. | |
huge temptation to spend that money in that group. If there is a danger | :52:48. | :52:52. | |
that he would have too much power, is that the case? The there will be | :52:52. | :52:57. | |
checks and balances. What will they be? An inspector from the Police | :52:57. | :53:02. | |
Inspectorate will be making sure the force is still compliance with | :53:02. | :53:07. | |
rules. You are talking about accountability to the local people | :53:07. | :53:12. | |
and he will want to do a good job if they want to get re-elected. If | :53:12. | :53:16. | |
people wanted, they will fight for efficiency savings and there is | :53:16. | :53:21. | |
huge scope for that. A police commissioner will not do that. The | :53:21. | :53:25. | |
only power they will have will be meddling. And they will just a | :53:25. | :53:33. | |
waste more money. What we needed more police out there, not more | :53:33. | :53:37. | |
politicians. Frankly, give that choice in a referendum to people. | :53:37. | :53:44. | |
Do you want more politicians or policemen? We will have to leave it | :53:44. | :53:54. | |
:53:54. | :53:58. | ||
there. Let's round up with 60 The Lord Mayor of Leicester, may be | :53:58. | :54:02. | |
suspended over claims he got senior officers to cancel his parking | :54:02. | :54:07. | |
tickets. He maintains they were wrongly issued to him in the first | :54:07. | :54:10. | |
place. Watch this space! It is a subject which has generated | :54:10. | :54:16. | |
a lot of heat on our programme. Now East Midland lawyers have found | :54:16. | :54:20. | |
their latest legal challenge against government plans to reduce | :54:20. | :54:25. | |
solar panel subsidies for. The Policy Research Unit, Centre | :54:25. | :54:28. | |
for cities says Nottingham is bottom of the league in the UK when | :54:28. | :54:34. | |
it comes to creating jobs in the private sector. At the top, East | :54:34. | :54:38. | |
Crawley in East Sussex. It costs the county's police force | :54:38. | :54:42. | |
is nearly �1 million. The last time the English Defence League marched | :54:42. | :54:46. | |
through Leicester. The far-right group is planning another march | :54:46. | :54:52. | |
next month. This time, the police want pubs and shops to ban the sale | :54:52. | :55:00. |