Browse content similar to 25/03/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Here: A warning that the closure of a hostel for vulnerable teenagers | 0:01:27 | 0:01:29 | |
will force some of them onto the streets. | 0:01:29 | 0:01:39 | |
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Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1830 seconds | 0:01:39 | 0:32:09 | |
And, how we're sitting on huge Hello, I'm John Hess. Our guests in | 0:32:10 | 0:32:12 | |
the East Midlands are the Conservative MP for Bosworth, David | 0:32:12 | 0:32:18 | |
Tredinnick and John Mann, the Labour MP for Bassetlaw. Coming up: | 0:32:18 | 0:32:22 | |
Is the price of spending cuts too high? A homeless charity tells us | 0:32:22 | 0:32:26 | |
it's being forced to close a hostel for vulnerable teenagers. It warns | 0:32:26 | 0:32:31 | |
more young people will end up sleeping rough. | 0:32:31 | 0:32:34 | |
Plus, our region is sitting on some of the biggest reserves of shale | 0:32:34 | 0:32:40 | |
gas in the country. The question is, should we exploit them? | 0:32:40 | 0:32:47 | |
First briefly, the Budget. David, can you give me an example | 0:32:47 | 0:32:51 | |
of how the Budget has helped businesses and people wanting to | 0:32:51 | 0:32:56 | |
get into work in your own constituency? We have just had this | 0:32:56 | 0:33:02 | |
huge enterprise zone just outside Hinckley announced, creating at | 0:33:02 | 0:33:08 | |
least 2000 new highly paid jobs, be an average of �40,000 in year in | 0:33:08 | 0:33:11 | |
salaries. Bring in the corporation tax rate down will help businesses | 0:33:11 | 0:33:17 | |
in the area, and also the top rate will stop people going abroad. | 0:33:17 | 0:33:21 | |
it a quick fix or long term? think it is part of a long-term | 0:33:21 | 0:33:24 | |
solution. When you have high tax rates people tried to avoid them. | 0:33:24 | 0:33:29 | |
This Chancellor has said he wants people to pay their taxes. We will | 0:33:29 | 0:33:33 | |
be paying taxes - petrol up more than three pence, it is great if | 0:33:33 | 0:33:38 | |
you are in business, to see record Petrel lovers. Pensioners getting | 0:33:38 | 0:33:42 | |
hit. Even if you want to go on holiday in a caravan in England. | 0:33:42 | 0:33:48 | |
You will be paying 20% VAT. This is nonsense. It does nothing for | 0:33:48 | 0:33:52 | |
business. A You are a member of the Treasury Select Committee. The one | 0:33:52 | 0:33:56 | |
thing everyone agrees on is that we need to get the economy going again. | 0:33:56 | 0:34:01 | |
Growth was predicted to be 2.5% and the last Budget, now it is | 0:34:01 | 0:34:04 | |
predicted to be under 1%. In other words, we are not growing the | 0:34:05 | 0:34:10 | |
economy. Yet the Independent Office for Budget Responsibility is | 0:34:10 | 0:34:18 | |
forecasting growth of 2% next year, 2.7% in 2014 - much higher than the | 0:34:18 | 0:34:20 | |
Eurozone. They always predict higher, and it when it comes to the | 0:34:20 | 0:34:24 | |
real year, this year, it is much lower. They also predict, by the | 0:34:24 | 0:34:28 | |
way, which -- that national debt is going to be going up every single | 0:34:28 | 0:34:36 | |
year. Not delivering, David, on that key issue of dealing with a | 0:34:36 | 0:34:40 | |
deficit reduction. Even during the boom years, a number of private | 0:34:40 | 0:34:44 | |
sector jobs in the West Midlands was declining. We have a | 0:34:44 | 0:34:48 | |
fundamental structural problems, and we have to deal with this | 0:34:48 | 0:34:52 | |
massive budget deficit that Labour have left us. This new budget that | 0:34:52 | 0:34:57 | |
we have just had makes it easier for people to take jobs, people in | 0:34:57 | 0:35:02 | |
the private sector. We have got help for younger people, and, by | 0:35:02 | 0:35:06 | |
reducing this debt burden we will, in the end, create the new jobs we | 0:35:06 | 0:35:10 | |
need for the benefit of the country. Yet the Chancellor has warned he | 0:35:10 | 0:35:14 | |
will cut another �10 billion off the welfare bill. Why should | 0:35:14 | 0:35:19 | |
vulnerable people in our region pay an even higher price for a crisis | 0:35:19 | 0:35:22 | |
that they say they are not responsible for and did not cause | 0:35:22 | 0:35:26 | |
in the first prize? We have passed a new bill through Parliament to | 0:35:26 | 0:35:29 | |
create a universal benefit, and stop some of the abuses that we | 0:35:29 | 0:35:32 | |
have had in the past. Some of the benefit was going to people who | 0:35:32 | 0:35:37 | |
should not have had it in the first prize. We want a much more targeted | 0:35:37 | 0:35:43 | |
benefits system. John Mann, what you say to David, where he said | 0:35:43 | 0:35:47 | |
earlier that lowering the top rate of tax, reducing corporation tax, | 0:35:47 | 0:35:51 | |
will attract more companies to Britain, and by implication more | 0:35:51 | 0:35:56 | |
companies to the East Midlands? any people benefiting are the | 0:35:56 | 0:35:58 | |
millionaires who are getting the vast amounts of their tax. That | 0:35:58 | 0:36:02 | |
does nothing for anyone. There is nothing in this for small | 0:36:02 | 0:36:06 | |
businesses. Petrol prices going up does nothing for small business, | 0:36:06 | 0:36:10 | |
and that is what the East Midlands needs. For the moment, thank you. | 0:36:10 | 0:36:13 | |
Next, spending cuts are taking an increasing toll, particularly on | 0:36:13 | 0:36:16 | |
local charities. Now Framework has told the Sunday Politics it's being | 0:36:16 | 0:36:18 | |
forced to close a hostel for vulnerable teenagers, as I've been | 0:36:18 | 0:36:24 | |
finding out. Heading to a hostel that won't be | 0:36:24 | 0:36:28 | |
here next Spring. By the time these daffodils have wilted, this shelter | 0:36:28 | 0:36:31 | |
for the homeless in Nottingham will be closed because of local council | 0:36:31 | 0:36:34 | |
spending cuts. 19-year-old Daniel Whitehead, who was homeless for | 0:36:34 | 0:36:43 | |
almost two years, is having to look for new accommodation again. How | 0:36:43 | 0:36:48 | |
valuable would you say this service is? With all the support and that, | 0:36:48 | 0:36:52 | |
it has been good for me and the people I have lived with that. It | 0:36:52 | 0:36:57 | |
is quite valuable, really. This is one of the flats run by the | 0:36:57 | 0:37:00 | |
Framework charity for the homeless. The room's been cleared because of | 0:37:00 | 0:37:03 | |
a funding cut of �250,000 by Labour-run Nottingham City Council. | 0:37:03 | 0:37:06 | |
The hostel offered 14 vulnerable young homeless people a roof over | 0:37:06 | 0:37:15 | |
their head. It shuts at the end of the month. It will mean that young, | 0:37:15 | 0:37:18 | |
homeless and vulnerable people who need support to establish the | 0:37:18 | 0:37:21 | |
skills that they need to live independently will no longer get | 0:37:21 | 0:37:25 | |
that support, and they will be left to fend for themselves. Neither | 0:37:25 | 0:37:27 | |
Nottingham City Council or the Labour politician in charge of | 0:37:27 | 0:37:30 | |
housing agreed to be interviewed about this. In a statement, the | 0:37:30 | 0:37:40 | |
0:37:40 | 0:37:57 | ||
The blame game is of little interest for Daniel. It is | 0:37:57 | 0:38:00 | |
important for all the people who are homeless, really. If it wasn't | 0:38:00 | 0:38:04 | |
there, where will people go? Government insists it's protected | 0:38:04 | 0:38:06 | |
its �6.5 billion Supporting People programme and expects councils to | 0:38:06 | 0:38:09 | |
do the same. That message hasn't been heard here. The hostel shuts | 0:38:09 | 0:38:19 | |
in just over a week. Can we cut through this blame game | 0:38:19 | 0:38:21 | |
here. Is the Government seriously suggesting that councils like | 0:38:22 | 0:38:24 | |
Nottingham are wilfully choosing to scrap funding for hostels like this | 0:38:24 | 0:38:32 | |
one when they could keep it open? Yes, that is the case. The money is | 0:38:32 | 0:38:36 | |
there, but they are not using it. It is not ring-fenced. So, there is | 0:38:37 | 0:38:41 | |
a degree of politics in this. It is very unwise. All of the homes we | 0:38:41 | 0:38:44 | |
have in Hinckley are open, so I don't know what this Labour- | 0:38:44 | 0:38:49 | |
controlled council are doing. are what, taking a local decision? | 0:38:49 | 0:38:53 | |
It is a local decision. There is money available for these projects, | 0:38:53 | 0:38:58 | |
but they are not caring to use it. A so, in effect, John Mann, David | 0:38:58 | 0:39:02 | |
Tredinnick is saying this is Nottingham City Council's joys. | 0:39:02 | 0:39:07 | |
Well, strangely, Conservative Nottingham County Council in my | 0:39:07 | 0:39:11 | |
area has also cut its Supporting People programme by a huge amount, | 0:39:11 | 0:39:15 | |
and what they say is the Government has forced them to do it. And that | 0:39:15 | 0:39:19 | |
is the case. What we have had is the Government cutting the | 0:39:19 | 0:39:23 | |
Supporting People budget across the country and saying to local- | 0:39:23 | 0:39:26 | |
authority is they have still got the responsibility for homelessness | 0:39:26 | 0:39:30 | |
and Supporting People, but we're not giving you any money to do it. | 0:39:30 | 0:39:36 | |
That is the dilemma of all councils of all parties, and the vulnerable, | 0:39:36 | 0:39:41 | |
including the would be and future home this... It is a scandal. There | 0:39:41 | 0:39:44 | |
is a danger of this happening in my area and other parts of | 0:39:44 | 0:39:49 | |
Nottinghamshire. You say it is a scandal, yet the Housing Minister | 0:39:49 | 0:39:55 | |
is saying Supporting People funding has been protected. He says it's up | 0:39:55 | 0:39:58 | |
to councils to invest in vulnerable teenagers like Daniel. And the | 0:39:58 | 0:40:02 | |
money is there - �6.5 billion nationally. | 0:40:02 | 0:40:11 | |
It has been precisely been cut. They say used for general money. | 0:40:11 | 0:40:14 | |
All councils with huge cut are having to balance out the different | 0:40:14 | 0:40:21 | |
priorities. We are seeing part of the country, including in my area, | 0:40:21 | 0:40:24 | |
problems with Supporting People, problems with the Budget, and | 0:40:24 | 0:40:30 | |
people like this potentially getting thrown out on the street. | 0:40:30 | 0:40:32 | |
Isn't this one Budget that should be protected for the most | 0:40:32 | 0:40:37 | |
vulnerable people in society? the money is there. It is not ring- | 0:40:37 | 0:40:41 | |
fenced. But I think it is important that councils do their utmost to | 0:40:41 | 0:40:47 | |
keep these homes open and support organisations that are providing | 0:40:47 | 0:40:51 | |
services for drug addicts, people who are on the streets... But the | 0:40:51 | 0:40:57 | |
Government has said they have cut the budget by 12%. There is a | 0:40:57 | 0:41:00 | |
rationalisation because of a big overspend generally in affairs in | 0:41:00 | 0:41:04 | |
the UK at the moment, but if we don't support these homeless | 0:41:04 | 0:41:10 | |
shelters and houses like that, these people often end up in police | 0:41:10 | 0:41:13 | |
stations or hospitals. We have to pick up a much larger built later | 0:41:13 | 0:41:19 | |
on. It is a very sensitive area. We have touched on deficit reduction | 0:41:19 | 0:41:24 | |
already. Is it realistic to expect any budget to be fully protected, | 0:41:24 | 0:41:28 | |
given the economic climate we are in? Of course not, but it is a | 0:41:28 | 0:41:32 | |
false economy to throw people out onto the street, to encourage drug- | 0:41:32 | 0:41:35 | |
taking and crime and alcoholism, which is precisely what will happen. | 0:41:35 | 0:41:41 | |
People need a home, and young people in pubs, but -- perhaps | 0:41:41 | 0:41:46 | |
because they had been thrown out of the family home for whatever reason, | 0:41:46 | 0:41:50 | |
they need to have somewhere to live or they will end up on drugs and | 0:41:50 | 0:41:54 | |
doing crime. I have to agree. We must support vulnerable people and | 0:41:54 | 0:41:59 | |
make sure they don't sleep rough and get into trouble. | 0:41:59 | 0:42:03 | |
Let's see if there's any agreement on our next issue. We can reveal | 0:42:03 | 0:42:06 | |
that the East Midlands is sitting on some of the biggest reserves of | 0:42:06 | 0:42:09 | |
shale gas in the country. A reason to celebrate, or should we be | 0:42:09 | 0:42:12 | |
worried about what might happen if we exploit them? | 0:42:12 | 0:42:15 | |
So, could the tranquil beauty of the Vale of Belvoir become one of | 0:42:15 | 0:42:19 | |
Britain's biggest gas fields. From here to the Derbyshire Peak | 0:42:19 | 0:42:24 | |
District is one of the country's biggest reserves of shale gas. This | 0:42:24 | 0:42:27 | |
is Melton Mowbray, celebrated for its pork pies, yet it could be | 0:42:27 | 0:42:30 | |
ingredients a mile underground that could give this town and many | 0:42:30 | 0:42:40 | |
0:42:40 | 0:42:43 | ||
others in the East Midlands rich pickings in a new dash for gas. | 0:42:43 | 0:42:46 | |
This geologist is inside a labyrinth of a national collection | 0:42:46 | 0:42:50 | |
of rock specimens at the British Geological Survey headquarters. He | 0:42:50 | 0:42:57 | |
is looking for box 14189. It contains ancient stones, drilled | 0:42:57 | 0:43:02 | |
just north of Derby in the Swinging 60s, when the any interest in gas | 0:43:02 | 0:43:07 | |
was jumping Jack Flash. This black line in the court is an old plant | 0:43:07 | 0:43:12 | |
stem, about 250 million years old, and it is the organic matter within | 0:43:12 | 0:43:17 | |
the start of material that will generate Matt -- gas. It looks | 0:43:17 | 0:43:21 | |
psychedelic, but this is a Geographic map with Melton Mowbray | 0:43:21 | 0:43:25 | |
in the bottom corner. But this is what begets the gas industry so | 0:43:25 | 0:43:29 | |
excited - this thick green belt represents the shale gas reserves | 0:43:29 | 0:43:35 | |
in this area alone. The reserves have been identified in three main | 0:43:35 | 0:43:45 | |
0:43:45 | 0:43:45 | ||
areas of the East Midlands. But, how is the gas extracted? The water | 0:43:45 | 0:43:50 | |
is pumped in at very high pressures. It will spread the rocker open. If | 0:43:50 | 0:43:53 | |
you imagine that this ball is sound, Sanders also pumped into the | 0:43:53 | 0:43:56 | |
borehole, it goes into the fractious, and that keeps the | 0:43:56 | 0:44:02 | |
Thatcher's open and creating a pressure gradient by which Gas can | 0:44:02 | 0:44:05 | |
flow from the rock into the borehole. It is called fracking. | 0:44:05 | 0:44:09 | |
That, together with new drilling technology, has opened up new | 0:44:09 | 0:44:14 | |
possibilities. But, it is controversial. In Blackpool, | 0:44:14 | 0:44:18 | |
fracking of the Lancashire coast created minor earth tremors. | 0:44:18 | 0:44:21 | |
Drilling was suspended pending a government safety review. In | 0:44:21 | 0:44:25 | |
America, critics claim fracking contaminates the water supply with | 0:44:25 | 0:44:33 | |
gas. This fireball in a bathroom basin became an internet sensation. | 0:44:33 | 0:44:37 | |
Former Nottingham South MP Alan Simpson is now sustainable energy | 0:44:37 | 0:44:41 | |
policy adviser for Friends of the Earth. The experience from America | 0:44:41 | 0:44:47 | |
is that if you give an untrammelled permission to race down that route, | 0:44:47 | 0:44:53 | |
you will end up with thousands of drilling sites, producing billions | 0:44:53 | 0:44:59 | |
of gallons of toxic waste that are just poured back onto the land. | 0:44:59 | 0:45:03 | |
Once those companies have milked the profits, the community is | 0:45:03 | 0:45:07 | |
affected and will pick up the legacies for generations to come. | 0:45:07 | 0:45:12 | |
The UK reserves, according to one industry expert, are the equivalent | 0:45:12 | 0:45:19 | |
of seven North Sea gas fields. This is the office of the Department for | 0:45:19 | 0:45:24 | |
an even here, officials admit they don't know the full extent of shale | 0:45:24 | 0:45:29 | |
gas in the UK. In a statement, the Energy Minister, Charles Hendry, | 0:45:29 | 0:45:32 | |
also says that they don't know how economically or environmentally | 0:45:32 | 0:45:38 | |
viable it will be to extract. At best, he says, it is years away. | 0:45:38 | 0:45:42 | |
But he goes on to say that if it comes good, we must be ready to | 0:45:42 | 0:45:47 | |
take full advantage of it. That may be the signal for a new dash for | 0:45:47 | 0:45:51 | |
gas that could transform the country's economy, but also our | 0:45:51 | 0:45:56 | |
countryside. This is a huge energy policy issue | 0:45:56 | 0:46:00 | |
we are talking about here. We are also told that the Government is | 0:46:00 | 0:46:03 | |
going to make an announcement pretty soon on whether to approve | 0:46:03 | 0:46:07 | |
new drilling applications. Your constituency seems to be sitting on | 0:46:07 | 0:46:15 | |
some of this shale gas. Should we had -- go-ahead and exploit them? | 0:46:15 | 0:46:20 | |
It would be a new name for people, the Gainsborough trough, and I | 0:46:20 | 0:46:23 | |
don't think many people have heard that term before. I have got an | 0:46:23 | 0:46:29 | |
open mind on whether this is usable or not. I have an open mind. I have | 0:46:29 | 0:46:32 | |
got a lot of fears about the potential for water pollution. In | 0:46:32 | 0:46:37 | |
my area, the water tables and linkage in, this is critical water | 0:46:37 | 0:46:42 | |
- this is water that we are using all the time. So, there are dangers | 0:46:42 | 0:46:46 | |
that. But think what is important is the public are engaged in the | 0:46:46 | 0:46:51 | |
debate. People in my area do not know that there is this possibility, | 0:46:51 | 0:46:54 | |
whether it is an opportunity or a threat, and they need to be able to | 0:46:54 | 0:46:58 | |
participate in that debate, rather than the Government are jumping | 0:46:58 | 0:47:01 | |
ahead without them knowing. That is why I welcome your reporting on it | 0:47:01 | 0:47:06 | |
today. David didn't it, is the Government likely to jump ahead on | 0:47:06 | 0:47:11 | |
such a key issue? Given all those pollution concerns as well. We have | 0:47:11 | 0:47:15 | |
to look at all energy sources, and I would sooner see this in | 0:47:15 | 0:47:18 | |
operation than these giant windmills on shore, which I think | 0:47:18 | 0:47:22 | |
are inefficient, and against which there has been quite a reaction. | 0:47:22 | 0:47:26 | |
The problem will be if we have communities that find methane gas, | 0:47:26 | 0:47:31 | |
out of the taps, as has happened in America. We need to have tougher | 0:47:31 | 0:47:34 | |
regulations than in the US, but we can't ignore eight times the | 0:47:35 | 0:47:38 | |
reserves of the North Sea if they are unsure. How do we get that | 0:47:38 | 0:47:42 | |
assurance? How do we assure those residents who might be living on | 0:47:42 | 0:47:47 | |
some of those huge reserves of shale gas? You either trial away | 0:47:47 | 0:47:55 | |
from people's homes, or you have tougher regulations. Sensible | 0:47:55 | 0:47:59 | |
regulations to reassure communities. We are in a wild now where energy | 0:47:59 | 0:48:03 | |
is at a premium. Prices have gone through the roof. We have to look | 0:48:03 | 0:48:06 | |
at all possible opportunities. have seen battle prices go through | 0:48:06 | 0:48:11 | |
the roof over the last week caused it. John Mann, you heard Alan | 0:48:12 | 0:48:15 | |
Simpson their who said that the toxic waste from drilling could | 0:48:15 | 0:48:20 | |
pose a huge environmental problem. The danger of water contamination | 0:48:20 | 0:48:25 | |
clearly is the problem with shale gas and specifically with fracking | 0:48:25 | 0:48:29 | |
- the process to get it. But we should bear in mind, there is a | 0:48:29 | 0:48:33 | |
range of other possibilities with energy in our area that is | 0:48:33 | 0:48:41 | |
underground. We are using grand tours -- ground sauce heat pumps to | 0:48:41 | 0:48:44 | |
draw heat to heat pensioners' homes already. It has been very | 0:48:45 | 0:48:48 | |
successful. We need to be careful that we don't jump for what the | 0:48:48 | 0:48:53 | |
energy companies say are the quick gains - bit games for them - and | 0:48:53 | 0:48:57 | |
not put investment in the things which are slowly but surely working | 0:48:57 | 0:49:00 | |
which are no risk to anyone, and are in fact free in terms of the | 0:49:00 | 0:49:07 | |
energy bills. David, the National shale gas reserves dwarf those, we | 0:49:07 | 0:49:12 | |
are told, of the North Sea. Surely there is going to be pressure on | 0:49:13 | 0:49:17 | |
ministers are to exploit them, and it is going to become irresistible? | 0:49:17 | 0:49:21 | |
We have to look at this massive resource. It does have quieted | 0:49:21 | 0:49:26 | |
toxic process, but there should be ways of taking it forward safely. | 0:49:26 | 0:49:30 | |
That is my concern. I don't think we can do everything from ground | 0:49:30 | 0:49:34 | |
source heating. I think it is valuable in his plays, but this is | 0:49:34 | 0:49:39 | |
a massive new source of power which the nation needs if it is to | 0:49:39 | 0:49:42 | |
develop its industries and get people into work, and give them | 0:49:42 | 0:49:46 | |
happy lives. John Mann, you have touched on it already, but how do | 0:49:46 | 0:49:51 | |
we have that much wider public debate? By informing people, by | 0:49:51 | 0:49:56 | |
allowing role -- local people to participate. Telling them the | 0:49:56 | 0:49:59 | |
options. People will then discover themselves the pros and cons. But | 0:49:59 | 0:50:04 | |
people need to know what is underground, what the Government is | 0:50:04 | 0:50:07 | |
tentatively thinking about, and then we can have that open debate. | 0:50:07 | 0:50:11 | |
That is what I would encourage. We can then make rational decisions | 0:50:11 | 0:50:16 | |
with local people. And the prospect of being self-sufficient in gas? | 0:50:16 | 0:50:20 | |
we can do that without any risk to local water supplies, I would be | 0:50:20 | 0:50:26 | |
for it. Yes, it is part of our energy package. There are | 0:50:26 | 0:50:29 | |
controversies in other areas, over nuclear power, but this is | 0:50:29 | 0:50:33 | |
something that must be considered. Thank you very much indeed. | 0:50:33 | 0:50:36 | |
Now it's time for our round-up of some of the other political stories | 0:50:36 | 0:50:46 | |
0:50:46 | 0:50:46 | ||
in the East Midlands this week with The Conservative MP for North West | 0:50:46 | 0:50:49 | |
Leicestershire, Andrew Bridgen, has called for an urgent debate on the | 0:50:49 | 0:50:53 | |
state of the construction industry. His constituency has some of the | 0:50:53 | 0:50:57 | |
largest brick factories in the country. | 0:50:57 | 0:51:00 | |
Tory Party Chairman, Baroness Varsi, didn't take kindly to a suggestion | 0:51:00 | 0:51:03 | |
that she was one of the reasons Roger Helmer has resigned as a | 0:51:03 | 0:51:10 | |
Member of the European Parliament. I feel that it is no surprise that | 0:51:10 | 0:51:15 | |
he has gone, and it may well be that his views really are more in | 0:51:15 | 0:51:18 | |
tune with the party that he has now chosen to join. | 0:51:18 | 0:51:21 | |
Derby councillors have approved a controversial application for a new | 0:51:21 | 0:51:25 | |
mosque in Normanton. It'll include a 21 metre high minaret. | 0:51:25 | 0:51:28 | |
Finally, plaudits from the Prime Minister for the work done by | 0:51:28 | 0:51:30 | |
Nottingham North Labour MP, Graham Allen, on early intervention to | 0:51:30 | 0:51:38 | |
help disadvantaged families. We are going to be setting up the early | 0:51:38 | 0:51:41 | |
intervention foundation which will be funded in order to make the | 0:51:41 | 0:51:44 | |
arguments that he has put very effectively, whichever side of the | 0:51:44 | 0:51:51 |