19/05/2013 Sunday Politics East Midlands

Downing Street is at war with Fleet Street this morning. The coach of

the touring party. This is the end to save some -- hundreds of jobs and

thousands of pensions in the coal industry. Europe, in or out? Do you

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2148 seconds

In the East Midlands. So, do you want a referendum on Europe? What's

your opinion? I'm out, straight away. We are in, we should stay in.

We should make the best of it. Uncertainty about the last deep

curve line brings concerns over the pension payout for thousands of

miners. Hello, I'm Marie Ashby. Joining me

this week the Conservative MP for Sherwood, Mark Spencer, and Labour's

MP for Gedling, Vernon Coaker. First let's take a look at some

extraordinary goings on in Lincolnshire with the county's

Police and Crime Commissioner, Alan Hardwick. He was giving evidence to

a Parliamentary Committee on PCCs this week and had an uncomfortable

time with Keith Vaz, the chair of the Home Affairs Select Committee.

He was quizzed over his decision to suspend Lincolnshire's Chief

Constable, a decision that was then overturned by the High Court.

Do you now regret suspending him? The situation was that I was

convinced that I had made the right decision, and I remain convinced

that I made the right decision. a judge has described the decisions

that you took as perverse and irrational. I accept it entirely,

that criticism. The point that was discussed at the judicial review was

a very narrow point about interpretation of a particular set

of circumstances. My interpretation went one way, the judge 's

interpretation went another way. I still maintain that might

interpretation was correct. -- that my interpretation was correct.

it difficult for you, as the commissioner, to be working with the

chief constable whom you believe should not be in post? No, it is not

difficult for me. We are both professionals, we have a very good

relationship. It has cost the taxpayer �50,000 in respect of your

High Court case. Who will pay the costs that comes? -- who will pay

the costs? That'll come from my office.

And as if that wasn't enough, the Chairman of the Police and Crime

Panel, Ray Wootten, resigned from his post on Thursday. Quite an

interesting time in Lincolnshire with the PCC having to work with a

chief constable he wanted to suspend. Awkward. At least we know

about it. In the past, with police authorities, some of these frictions

and decisions were hidden away and we didn't know but at least we know

about it now. We might not like it, and we might be able to get rid of

him when it comes around to elections away. There was no

accountability before. Before, people who were put onto

authorities, they didn't have a say on to sat on those authorities, and

now we can hold them to account. this a sign that the PCC experiment

is not working? This is what people warned might happen. This has been

farcical. People scratching their heads in the world and. One of the

things we raised when the bill was going through Parliament to set up

PCCs was this business of checks and balances, how do you hold them to

account? It is very well saying it is transparent and you can do

something about it, but not the four years. And it has cost �50,000

already. Four years is the right period. You need time to establish

yourself and deliver your programme. He is costing the taxpayer in his

county already. He has made the wrong decision and I don't support

him in that decision and I think the Electric should get rid of him that

the next opportunity. -- the electric electorate.

It's a story we'll be watching in the coming weeks. And here's another

one. The fate of hundreds of jobs and thousands of pensions in the

East Midlands hangs in the balance this weekend as UK Coal fights for

survival. The company's hit financial problems after it was

forced to close the Daw Mill Colliery in Warwickshire, because of

an underground fire. As our Political Editor John Hess reports,

it has big implications for our region.

This is Sherwood Forest Notts. It is one of the last handful deep

combines left in Britain. It is profitable and there are still huge

reserves of underground. It is -- it's very future is in doubt because

of one of the worst underground fires at a similar mind is 70 miles

south of here. Daw Mill Colliery in North Warwickshire. It's been forced

to shut. Several hundred miners have been laid off. Given it was the most

ferocious fire in 30 years of UK mining, we've had no option to close

that mind permanently. Uncertainty over the future of UK Coal,

Britain's largest coal producer, has knock-on effects outdoors B. The

outcome will remain -- will affect the workforce and the pensions of

thousands of miners who used to work here. Alan Bell's worked it as a

fitter since he left school. He fears losing thousands from his

works pension. Definitely. Have you worked out how much? 30 grand.

That's a big hit. As far as retirement goes, it is a no-no.

Andrew McKenzie transferred here from Daw Mill Colliery. We are angry

but if you want a job, you've got to take cuts in, one way or another.

Clearly, employees long-term benefits, and do they have a job,

are we going to secure that, clearly a pension is a big part of that

benefit. That is not lost on us and we're working with lots of

departments in government to safeguard that. Those talks with

ministers include the possibility of Daw Mill Colliery and the pension

scheme being taken over by the government. Nottinghamshire miners

leader is pressing coalition ministers for an early decision.

Drop uncertainty, pension uncertainty means a lot more from

government and local MPs to do more communicating, try to get the

assistance and not just talk. Britain's 1,000 mines were

nationalised by the post-war Labour government, there were 47 collieries

in Nottinghamshire alone. Call employs 700,000 men. And now? The

most important point is we safeguard 2000 jobs and look after our

creditors to make sure we have a viable mining business. Where that

ends up, we don't know, but we're working very hard to get there.

There has been mining him for 90 years but will Nottinghamshire's

remaining pit see out its centenary? Mark Spencer, you are heavily

involved in this, what are you doing and what can you do? I am being a

bit selfish about it because this one is more important than Daw Mill

Colliery. I'm trying to make sure that the jobs there are safe, and I

hope that the fire at Daw Mill Colliery doesn't drag it down with

it. We have been fairly well supported with the ministers. They

are working with UK Coal to get to the right point and make sure those

jobs are protected. So it is about meetings at the moment? It is about

trying to get to the position where we can secure those jobs but also

remember there is the redundancies to sort out at Daw Mill Colliery and

make sure people are well looked after. What about nationalisation?

You've got to remember it falls on the taxpayer. If it all goes wrong,

the coal authority picks up the mess. If the pensions goes wrong,

the government is pretty well motivated to sort this out. It needs

UK Coal and the unions to come to an agreement. So, definitely not

nationalisation? I think thoughts be stands up on its own. It makes a

profit. It is very well run. There's no need to nationalise it. Some of

these miners and pensions may be from your constituency, so what are

you doing? I think all of us have the purpose of working together to

try to get a solution to this because it impacts right across the

whole of the region and across the constituents. I think the crucial

thing as Mark was saying is to try to ensure that Daw Mill Colliery

doesn't act as a toxic mix of the rest of UK Coal. What the government

are trying to do is see if they can pull out Daw Mill Colliery from the

UK Coal operation so it doesn't impact on the other service

operations it has gone. So it is quite a big deal because it is also

about pensions and it is the pension impact that has a massive impact

across the region and the government may well need to look at how it

deals with that and it also needs to get the agreement of the pension

regulator so it is quite complicated. But we've got to find a

way of dealing with Daw Mill Colliery. What reassurances can you

give to these people at this stage you are worried about their

pensions? Everybody has the right motivation, everybody wants it to 60

and it is a question of the government, the unions and UK Coal

working together to achieve the same aim. At the moment, there is a bit

of difference as to how to get there. And a bit of friction between

the UK Coal and the union over redundancy. I hope we can find some

common ground and find a way forward. What sort of role can you

play in that? It is putting pressure on ministers said they understand

the issue and they know what we want to achieve. And to make sure they

are focusing on getting to the right point. They have to realise how big

a deal this is for the region. say that, but what is the future of

the coal? It is a dirty fuel. look at coal in the traditional

sense of mining coal, but if you look at the Carbon capture schemes

we are all trying to take forward, the clean coal technology, there is

a future for coal. A significant part of our energy needs is

dependent on deep mining, as well as imports. Does it really matter?We

can see the impact on the energy market. What we need is to maintain

as much of the current industry as we can and part of that is dealing

with the issue at Daw Mill Colliery. To be fair to the government, whom I

am a critic of most of the time, they understand that. We need to try

to find a way of all of us working together to come up with a solution

that protects jobs, protects the remains of the industry and the

pensions of the people. So, will UK Coal survived, Mark? It will in some

format. Clearly, it won't have three pits, three deep mines. I would like

to see Daw Mill Colliery separated. And I would like to see it generate

profits for their workers and staff. Our political editor has got a blog

on this, too, and you can go to it online.

Well, the big issue in Parliament this week was the vote on not having

a vote. More than 100 MPs signed up to an amendment to the Queen's

Speech regretting the fact that it didn't contain a bill for a

referendum on Europe. A good chunk of our MPs supported it. In a

moment, Des Coleman will be hearing your views, but first here's our

round up of the MPs who did sign up. Almost half of our Conservative MPs

voted for the amendment. They think? The question of Europe

divides the country. Should we have a vote to stay in or come out? I am

in Derby to find out your opinion. I've got John with me. What's your

opinion? We should have a vote to come out straight away. We are part

of Europe and we should be very positive about it. Should we have a

vote? I don't think we should. There's a huge amount of right-wing

stuff around at the moment. People think that if we come out of

Europe, it is an easy answer. isn't. Would you like a vote on

whether to stay in Europe? I would opt to come out. Guys, what your

thoughts? I think we should go to a vote because the advantages of

staying in Europe are weighed down by the disadvantages. We are losing

our industry. Look at bombarding a, they nearly went bust because we

gave away a massive contract with French company because the

government wanted the cheapest option. So they could have gone

bust, Derby could have lost one of its biggest employers, the whole

city would have been in turmoil. If people aren't happy in the EU, we

should have a referendum. Should we stay in or out? I believe we should

stay on but it is also rhetoric coming from MPs to say we should

vote when we don't have referendums for every other thing. So, do you

want to vote on Europe? I don't think we should. I think we are in,

we should stay in and we should do like the rest of the Europeans,

which is make the best of it. Bill Newton Dunn, East Midlands MEP

for the Liberal Democrats, has joined us. People very informed on

Europe in Derby, what do you think about that? It is very interesting,

a variety of opinions, but basically I think there is a great lack of

information across the country. At Westminster, they never talk about

Europe except in disparaging terms, and they should talk about good

things. We had a referendum in 1975, it is time, I think, the public were

given a full-scale debate to learn the facts again. When?There is

going to be a new EU treaty coming along because there are changes to

the banking union, and other things. So, there is going to be a treaty

which will trigger, as the legislation passed last year, saying

that if there is a proposal for moving powers to Brussels, there

must be a referendum, so there will be one. You are one of the people

who voted for this amendment, why? It was before I was at primary

school last time we had a say on Europe and we need to have that

debate. I think those people who think we should stay in will have

the opportunity to make those arguments and those people who want

to come out will also have the opportunity for their arguments.

That is all put across in a box. is it so important to do it now?

don't need to do it when the relationship is stable, but Europe

is moving in a direction that some of us are uncomfortable with and

once the dust has settled, and we can see the direction Europe is

staying in, we can choose whether or not to be part of it or come out of

it. The Tory party have panicked in the wake of UKIP and people like

Mark and many others are thinking, oh, my goodness, I need to save my

seat and I need to demonstrate how sceptic I am. The director of the

CBI said that all of this distraction was undermining jobs and

growth, and I agree with him. Jobs and growth is the centre of

excellence, which the City of London is put at risk, it is the influence

we have in the world, because of Europe. We shouldn't panic and

placate UKIP. It is panicking. are the only party that is united

over Europe. We absolutely all agree we should have a referendum. The

whole party agrees with that. If you look at the other night, the

Conservative Party was in one lobby and the parties were split. That is

something that has happened for the first time in my life. What do you

have to say about that, Bill? never seen a more divided party and

they've been divided about Europe for years. Face facts. You could

make that document about major argument, but pretty much the whole

of the Conservative Party thinks we should have a referendum and we

should move to that referendum as quickly as possible. Should we be in

Europe? We should look at what Europe is before we make our mind

up. But do you think we should be in Europe? In a referendum today, given

the relationship we have, I would vote to come out. Once that

relationship has changed, that is a different argument, and once the

dust has settled, I'll be able to make my mind up. You'd vote to come

out of Europe, that would be detrimental for British jobs. It

would be detrimental to the interests of this country, and I

would vote yes. As somebody said in one of the interviews, let's engage

with the debate. It is interesting you have said you would vote no.

That is today. If we could change the relationship and get a positive

out of Europe, that is a different argument. We can drag some of those

powers back. I think it's stupid. David Cameron made a huge mistake

offering a referendum in four years time. It has put a blight over

Britain. Multinationals are saying, we will not risk investing in

Britain for four years until we know what the situation is. We don't want

a referendum now. When was a new treaty proposed, that is the moment

because France and the Netherlands will also have a referendum. People

in the East Midlands would like to know what the EU has done for us

here before they make that decision. They have done an enormous amount. I

publish a newsletter in print and online. I can tell people happily, a

long list of good stuff. If we have a new treaty, what is the difference

between the plight of the new treaty coming and the blight of a possible

referendum? I don't understand the difference in the argument. It is

quite simple. A new treaty involves referendums in various countries,

Germany, France, and so on. It is a moment when all of Europe will be

deciding and we will not be disadvantaged. Back to the benefits

in East Midlands, tell me. Peace, free trade, free movement, leadfree

petrol, fighting ISA drain -- acid rain. All sorts of things. This is

European legislation. Written has a part of it in shaping it. If we were

outside, we would have no say. -- Britain has a part of shaping it.

continue trading in our neighbours. Without any say in the rules!

also trade with all the other nations, and we can have lots of the

benefits. All those countries are subject to trade agreements but the

EU makes the trade agreements. Whilst the Tory party was panicking

because of UKIP, the Prime Minister was in Washington talking to

President Obama. He was talking to the president, negotiating a trade

deal between the United States and the EU. At the same time, we had the

Tory party, which I find it incredible you say is united,

because most people 's analysis is they are completely not united on

this. Your party, too, to be honest. There was a few people. The Labour

Party is remarkably united. There were a few people who took a

different view. There were 114 Tory MPs... Lets see who devised and

splits when that private members bill comes to the floor. Thank you

for joining us. Now here's John with our regular

round up of some of the other political stories in the East

Midlands this week in 60 seconds. Leicester could become a friendlier

place to cyclists after the City Council bid for more than �6 million

of government money. It wants the cash to pay for more than six

kilometres of traffic free cycle tracks. HS2 is in the news again.

The government is considering extending a tunnel under East

Midlands Airport to bypass the site of a proposed freight depot which

could create several thousand jobs. Well, the National Audit Office said

it has reservations about government's claims of the economic

benefits of HS2. The ruling Labour group on double check out council is

already making waves. The council's Chief Executive is to leave by the

end of June. The council's new leader has refused to comment on the

move. And research by the University of Nottingham has found that the

current parliament could be the most rebellious since the war. It's

calculated rebellions have fallen slightly this year but they are

still well ahead of the average number of backbench revolts.

Politicians revolting? You are so rebellious, why? The intake has come

from a different place. Has that Whaley made a difference? Because

you've got other jobs? I understand it is my job to represent shield in

Westminster -- Sherwood. If that means disagreeing with the

government, so be it. I am not revolting. I stand up for my

constituents. I stood for the Labour Party, I am proud to stand for them.

I have the Labour whip in Parliament and I do that and represent the

interests of gelding as well. Gedling. It certainly makes politics