10/11/2013 Sunday Politics East Midlands


Andrew Neil and Marie Ashby with the latest political news. With deputy Labour leader Harriet Harman, UKIP leader Nigel Farage, and a look at calls to remove the Sun's Page 3.

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Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. Ed Miliband's on


the war path over pay day loans, your energy bill and what he calls


the bedroom tax. His spinners say he's resurgent though the polls


don't show it. We'll be talking to his right hand woman, Labour's


Deputy Leader, Harriet Harman. From resurgent to insurgent. Nigel Farage


won an award this week for being a political insurgent. We'll be


talking to the UKIP leader. And Harriet hates, hates, hates page


three. She wants rid of it. But what do you think? We sent Adam out with


some balls. Stay. It is good fun for And in the East Midlands, the


council leader planning 800 job cuts joins us


It is free choice. In London, the row over the super sewer rumbles on.


And with me, fresh from their success at yesterday's Star Wars


auditions, Darth Vader. Obi Wan Kenobi and R2D2. Congratulations on


your new jobs. We'll miss you. Nick Watt, Helen Lewis and Janan Ganesh.


First, the talks with Iran in Geneva. They ended last night


without agreement despite hopes of a breakthrough. America and its allies


didn't think Iran was prepared to go far enough to freeze its nuclear


programme. But some progress has been made and there's to be another


meeting in ten days' time, though at a lower level. The Foreign


Secretary, William Hague, had this to say a little earlier. On the


question of, or will it happen in the next few weeks? There is a good


chance of that. We will be trying again on 20th, 21st of November and


negotiators will be trying again. We will keep an enormous amount of


energy and persistence behind solving this. Will that be a deal


which will please everyone? No, it will not. Compromises will need to


be made. I had discussions with Israeli ministers yesterday and put


the case for the kind of deal we are looking


the case for the kind of deal we are interests of the whole world,


including interests of the whole world,


the world, to reach a diplomatic agreement we can be confident in in


this issue. This otherwise will threaten the world with nuclear


proliferation and conflict in the future. The interesting thing about


this is that it seems future. The interesting thing about


prepared to go far enough over the Iraq heavy water plutonium reactor


it is building. The people who took the toughest line - the French.


France has always had a pretty tough line on Iran. They see it as a


disruptive influence in Lebanon I am reasonably optimistic a deal will


be done later this month when the talks reconvene. Western economic


sanctions have had such an impact on Iran domestic league. They have


pushed inflation up to 40%. Dashes-macro domestically. The new


president had a campaign pledge saying, I will deal with sanctions.


I actually think, by the end of this year, we will see progress in these


talks. Should we be optimistic? The next round of talks will be at


official level. The place to watch will be Israel. The language which


has been coming out of there is still incredibly angry, incredibly


defensive. They do not want a deal at all. Presumably John Kerry has to


go away and tried to get Israel to be quiet about it, even if they


cannot be happy about it. They cannot agree to a deal which allows


the Iraq reactor with plutonium heavy water. You do not need that


with a peaceful nuclear power programme will stop that is why the


Israelis are so nervous. If there is an international deal, Israel could


still bomb that but it would be impossible. The French tactics are


interesting. It says the French blocked it in part because they are


trying to carry favour with Israel but also the Gulf Arab states, who


are really nervous about and Iranians nuclear capability. Who is


that? Saudi Arabia. Newsnight had a story saying that Pakistan is


prepared to provide them with nuclear weapons. You are right about


Saudi Arabia. They are much more against this deal than Israel. Who


is Herman van Rompuy's favourite MEP? It is probably not Nigel


Farage. He plummeted to the bottom of the EU president's Christmas card


list after comparing him to a bank clerk with the charisma of a damp


rag. And he's been at it again this week. Have a look. Today is November


the 5th, a big celebration festival day in England. That was an attempt


to blow up the Houses of Parliament with dynamite and destroy the


Constitution. You have taken the Dahl, technocratic approach to all


of these things. What you and your colleagues save time and again you


talk about initiatives and what you are going to do about unemployment.


The reality is nothing in this union is getting better. The accounts have


not been signed off for 18 years. I am now told it is 19 and you are


doing your best to tone down any criticism. Whatever growth figures


you may have, they are anaemic. Youth unemployment in the


Mediterranean is over 50% in several states. You will notice there is a


rise in opposition dashed real opposition. Much of it ugly


opposition, not stuff that I would want to link hands with. And Nigel


Farage joins me now. Let me put to you what the editor of the Sun had


to say. He says, UKIP will peak at the European election and then it


will begin to get marginalised as we get closer to 2015 because there is


now that clear blue water between Labour and the Tories. What do you


say to that? There may be layered blue water on energy pricing but on


Eastern Europe, there is no difference at all. When Ed Miliband


offers the referendum to match Cameron, even that argument on


Europe will be gone. The one thing that will keep UKIP strong, heading


towards 2015, is if people think in some constituencies we can win. I


cannot sit here right now and say that will be the case. If we get


over the hurdle of the European elections clearly, I think there


will be grounds to say that UKIP can win seats in Westminster. You are


going to run? Without a shadow of a doubt. I do not know which


constituency. The welcome I got in Edinburgh was not that friendly


Edinburgh is not everything in Scotland. I think we have a


realistic chance of winning those elections. If we do that, we will


have the momentum behind us. You might be the biggest party after the


May elections. The National front is likely to do very well in France as


well. They have won the crucial by-election in the South of France.


Have you talked about joining full season in Parliament? The leader has


tried to take the movement into a different direction than her father.


The man she beat, to become leader, actually attended the BNP


conference. The problem she has with her party and we have with her party


is that anti-Semitism is too deep and we will not be doing a deal with


the French national government. You can guarantee you will not be


joining such groups. I can guarantee that. Let's move on to Europe. Let's


accept that the pro-Europeans exaggerate the loss of jobs that


would follow the departure of Britain from the UK. Is there no


risk of jobs whatsoever? No risk whatsoever. There is no risk at all.


There have been some weak and lazy arguments put around about this We


will go on doing business - go on doing trade with Europe. We will


have increased opportunities to do trade deals with the rest of the


world and they will create jobs The head of Nissan, the head of Hitachi


and CBI many other voices in British business, when they all expressed


concern about the potential loss of jobs and incoming investment, we


should just ignore them. With Nissan, the BBC News is making this


a huge story. The boss did not say what was reported. He said there was


a potential danger to his future investment. They have already made


the investments. They have built the plant in Sunderland, which they say


is operating well. We should be careful of what bosses of big


businesses say. This man said they may have two leaves Sunderland if we


did not join the euro. I do not take that seriously. As for the CBI, they


wanted us to join the euro and now they do not. Even within the CBI,


there is a significant minority saying, we do not agree with what


the CBI director-general is saying. The former boss of the organisation


is saying we need a referendum and we need a referendum soon. It


depends on the renegotiation. There is not the uniformity. What we are


beginning to see in the world, is, manufacturing and small businesses


are a lot more voices saying, the costs of membership outweigh any


potential benefit. If you look at the polls, if Mr Cameron does


repatriate some powers and he joins with Labour, the Lib Dems, the


Nationalists in Scotland and Wales, most of business, all of the unions


to say we should stay in, you are going to lose, aren't you? In 1 75,


the circumstances were exactly the same. Mr Wilson promised a


renegotiation and he got very little. The establishment gathered


around him and they voted for us to stay in. I do not think that will


happen now. The scales have fallen. We do not want to be governed by


Herman Van Rompuy and these people. These people are Eurosceptic but


they do not seem to feel strongly enough about it that they are going


to defy all the major parties they vote for, companies that employ


them, unions they are members of. I am absolutely confident there will


be a lot voices in business saying, we need to take this opportunity to


break free, give ourselves a chance of a low regulation lowball trader.


-- global trade. In 1970 53 small publications said to vote yes. I am


not contemplating losing. The most important thing is to get the


referendum. If UKIP is not strong, there will not be a referendum.


Earlier in the year, your party issued a leaflet about the remaining


sample parents being able to come to this country. The EU will allow 29


million Bulgarians and remaining is to come to the UK. That is


technically correct but we both know that is not the case. It is an open


door to these people. Why take the risk? By make out there are 29


million people? I stand by that verdict. It is an open door. 29


million are not going to come. They can if they want. Also 29 million


people from France can come. After these countries have joined, we will


do another leaflet saying that Mr Cameron wants to open the door to 70


million people from Turkey. That is scaremongering. I would not say


that. We have a million young British workers between 16 and 4


without work. A lot of them want work and we do not need another


massive oversupply in the unskilled labour market. Why did you have such


a bad time on question Time this week? The folk that did not buy your


anti-immigration stick. Do you think that group of people in the room was


representative of the voters of Boston? What would make you think it


was unrepresentative? When the county council elections took place


this year in Boston, of the seven seats, UKIP won five and almost won


the other two. I don't think that audience reflected that, but that


doesn't matter. How an audience is put together, how a panel is put


together, on one programme, it doesn't mean much at all. It shows


that your anti-immigrant measure doesn't fly as easily as you hoped


it would? The opinion polls which will be launched on Monday that we


are conducting and nearing completion, they show two things.


Firstly, an astonishing number of people who think it's irresponsible


and wrong to open the doer to Romania and Bulgaria, secondly and


crucially, a number of people whose vote in the European elections and


subsequent general elections may be determined by the immigration


issues. This does matter. It would be the perfect run group the


European elections in May for you if a lot of Bulgarians and remainians


flooded in. You would like that to happen? I think it will happen.


Whether I like it or not, it will happen. You think it will be good


for you, it will stir things up If you say to people in poor countries,


you can come here, get a job, have a safety net of a benefits system


claim child allowance for your kids in Bucharest, people will come You


are ready with the arguments already? You will be disappointed if


only ten turn up? Whether lots come or not we should. Taking the risk


and yes, we are going to make it a major issue in the European


election. Let's leave it there. Thank you very much, Nigel Farage.


The summer of 2013 was not good for Ed Miliband, with questions over his


leadership, low ratings and complaints about no policies. He


bounced back with a vengeance at the Labour Conference in September,


delivering a speech which this week won the spectator political speech


of the year aword. In that speech he focussed on the cost-of-living and


promised a temporary freeze on energy prices. Even said this. The


next election isn't just going to be about policy. It's going to be about


how we lead and the character we show. I've got a message for the


Tories today. If they want to have a debate, about leadership and


character, be my guest And if you want to know the difference between


me and David Cameron, here is an easy way to remember it. When it was


Murdoch v the McCanns, he took the side of Murdoch. When it was the


tobacco lobby versus the cancer charities, he took the side of the


tobacco lobby. When the millionaires wanted a tax cut as people pay the


bedroom tax, he took the side of the millionaires. A come to think of it,


here is an easier way to remember it. David Cameron was a Prime


Minister who introduced the bedroom tax. I'll be the Prime Minister who


repeals the bedroom tax There we go, that will go down with the party


faithful on Tuesday. There will be a debate on the bedroom tax. Labour's


Deputy Leader, Harriet Harman, joints me now. Let's begin with the


bedroom tax or bedroom subsidy. Nearly 11% of people who've come off


Housing Benefits all together after their spare room subsidy was


stopped, isn't that proof that reform was necessary? No. I think


that the whole way that the bet room tax has been attempted to be


justified is completely wrong. What it's said is that it will actually


help take people off the waiting lists by putting them into homes


that have been vacated by people who've downsized by being


incentivised by the bedroom tax so basically if you are a council


tenant or Housing Association tenant in a property with spare bedrooms,


then because the penalty is imposed, you will move to a smaller property.


That is the justification for it. But actually, something like 96 of


the people who're going to be hit by the bedroom tax, there isn't a


smaller property for them to move into. I understand that. Therefore


they are, like the people in my constituency, if they have got one


spare bedroom, they are hit by 700 a year extra to pay and that is


completely unfair As a consequence of people losing the subsidy for


their spare room, they have decided to go out and get work and not


depend on Housing Benefit at all? 11% of them. What's wrong with that?


Well, they are going to review the way 2 the bedroom tax is working.


What is wrong with that? But that's not working. That's the result of


Freedom of Information, 141 councils provided the figures, 25,000 who've


come off benefits, of the 233,0 0 affected, it's about 11%. These


people were clearly able to get a job was having the Housing Benefit


in the first place? But of course the people who're on the benefits


who're not in work are always looking for work and many of them


will find work which is a good thing, but for those who don't find


work, or who find work where it s low-paid and need help with their


rent, it's wrong to penalise them on the basis of the fact that their


family might have grown up and moved away and so you have either got to


move out of your home, away from your family and your neighbourhood,


or you've got to stay where you are and, despite the fact that you are


low-paid or unemployed, you have got to find an extra ?700 a year because


of your rent. So it's very unfair The Government that was


commissioning independent research on the impact of this work change


and welfare policy, particularly on the impact on the most vulnerable,


some of which you have been talking about there, shouldn't they have


waited until you have got the independent research, that


independent investigation before determining your policy? No. In


fact, the Government should have waited until they'd have done their


independent research before they bought into effect something and


imposed it on people in a way which is really unfair. They could have


known. Why didn't you wait? What they could have done is, they could


have asked councils, are people going to be able to Manifest into


smaller homes if we impose the bedroom tax and the answer from


councils and Housing Associations would have been no, they can't move


into smaller homes because which haven't got them there. They should


have done the evaluation before they introduced the policy. We are


absolutely clear and you can see the evidence, people are falling into


rent arrears. Many people, it's a terrifying thing to find that you


can't pay your rent, and some of the people go to payday loan companies


to get loans to pay their rent. It is very, very unfair. The


justification for it, which is people will move, is completely


bogus. There aren't places for them to go. On the wider issue of welfare


reform, a call for the TUC showed that voters support the Government's


welfare reforms, including a majority of Labour voters. Why are


you so out of touch on welfare issues, even with your own


supporters? Nobody wants to see people who could be in a job


actually living at the taxpayers' expense. That's why we have said


that we'll introduce a compulsory jobs guarantee, so that if you are a


young person who's been unemployed for a year, you will have to take a


job absolutely have to take a job, and if you have been unemployed as


somebody over 25, there'll be a compulsory thing after two years of


unemployment. So if you have been on welfare two years? So the main issue


about the welfare bill actually is people who're in retirement who need


support. We have said for the richest pensioners, they shouldn't


have to pay their winter fuel allowance. My point wasn't abouts


the sub stance, it's about how you don't reflect public opinion --


substance. The Parliamentary aid said the political backlog of


benefits and social security is "not yet one that we have won. Labour


must accept that they are not convincing on these matters,". Well,


redo have to convince people and explain the policies we have got and


the view we take. So, for example, for pensioners, who're well off we


are saying they don't need the Winter Fuel Payment that. 's me


saying to you and us saying to people in this country, we do think


that there should be that tightening. For young people, who've


been unemployed, they should be offered jobs but they've got to take


them. So yes, we have to make our case. OK. The energy freeze which we


showed there, on the speech, as popular. The living wage proseles


have been going down well as well. Why is Labour's lead oaf the


Conservatives being cut to 6% in the latest polls? Ed Miliband's own


personal approval rating's gotten worse. Why is that? I'm not going to


disdues ins and outs of weekly opinion polls with you or anybody


else because I'm not a political commentator, but let me say to you


the facts of what's happened since Ed Miliband's been leader of the


Labour Party. We have got 1,950 New Labour councillors, all of those...


But you're... All those who've won their seats against the


Conservatives or the Liberal Democrats and no, Andrew you don't


always get that in opposition. In 1997 after Tony Blair was elected,


the Tories carried on losing council seats. Exceptional circumstances and


these days Mr Blair was 25% ahead in the polls. You were six. The economy


grew at an annual rate of 3% in the third quarter just gone. Everybody,


private and public forecasters now saying that Britain in this coming


year will grow faster than France, Italy, Spain, even Germany will grow


faster. Your poll ratings are average when the economy was


flatlining, what happens to them when the economy starts to grow


Well, I've just said to you, I'm not a political commentator or a pundit


on opinion polls. We are putting policies forward and we are holding


the Government to account for what they are doing and we think that


what they did opt economy pulled the plugs from the economy, delayed the


recovery, made it stagnate and we have had three years lost growth. I


understand that, but it's now starting to grow. Indeed. If you are


no political commentator, let me ask you this, you anticipated the


growth, so you switched your line to no growth to this is growth and


living standards are rising. If the economy does grow up towards 3% next


year, I would suggest that living standards probably will start to


rise with that amount of growth What do you do then? We have not


switched our line because the economy started to grow. All the way


along, we said the economy will recover, but it's been delayed and


we have had stagnation for far too long because of the economic


policies. We have been absolutely right to understand the concerns


people have and recognise that they are struggling with the


cost-of-living. Sure. And we are right to do that. What kind of


living standards stuck to rise next year? -- start to rise next year. I


hope they will. For 40 months of David Cameron's Prime Ministership,


for 39 of those, wages have risen slower than prices, so people are


worse off. I understand that. You will know that the broader


measurement, real household disposable income doesn't show that


decline because it takes everything into account. Going around the


country, people feel it. They say where's the recovery for me. Living


standards now start to rise? If that happens, what is your next line


There is a set of arguments about living standards, the National


Health Service, about the problems that there is in A, which caused


-- are caused by the organisation. I can put forward other lines. All


right. Let me ask you one other question If no newspapers have


signed up to the Government-backed Labour-backed Royal Charter on press


regular lace by 2015 and it looks like the way things are going none


will have, if you are in power, will a Labour Government legislate to


make them? They don't have to sign up to the Royal Charter, that's not


the system. What the Royal Charter does is create a recogniser and


basically says it's for the newspapers to set up their own


regulator. They are doing that. My question is... Let me finish. If


they decide to have nothing to do with the Royal Charter that was


decided in Miliband's office in the wee small hours, will you pass


legislation to make them? The newspapers are currently setting up


what they call... I know that, Harriet Harman. Just let me finish.


OK. Because the newspapers are setting up the independent Press


Standards Organisation. Right. If it is independent, as they say it is,


then the recogniser will simply say, we recognise that this is


independent and the whole point is that, in the past when there's been


skaen deals a tend press have really turned people's lives upside down


and the press have said OK we'll sort things out, leave it to us


then they have sorted things out but a few years later they have slipped


back, all this recogniser will do is check it once every three years and


say yes, you have got an independent system and it's remained independent


and therefore that is the guarantee things won't slip back. Very


interesting. Thank you for that That's really interesting that if


they get their act right, you won't force the alternative on them. We


want the system as set forward by Leveson which is not statute and


direct regulation. I want to stick with the press because I want to


ask, is this a British institution or an out-of-date image for a by


gone age. The Sun's Page 3 has been dividing the nation since it first


appeared way back in 1970. That s 43 years ago. Harriet Harman's called


for it to be removed, so we sent Adam out to ask whether the topless


photographs should stay or go. We have asked people if page three


should stay or go. Page three. What do you think? Nothing wrong with it


at all. I think it is cheap and exploits women. It is a family


newspaper. Should it stay or go Go. I will look like the bad guy. It


should go. You have changed your mind. It is free choice. Girls do


not have to be photographed. Old men get the paper just for that. Know


when your age does that? Not really. Dashes-macro know what your age


Page three girls, should they stay or go? I am not bothered. There are


other ways of getting noticed. Page three of the Sun newspaper every


day, there is a woman with no top on. We got rid of that about 40


years ago in Australia. I am not in favour of censorship. It has been


long enough. It can stay there. What is wrong with it? We want to


encourage children to read the newspapers. I do not want my


children to look at that. It is degrading. Do you think we will see


the day when they get rid of it Yes, I do. I am wondering if I can


turn this into some kind of a shelter. It is tipping it down. I


think the council should do something about their car parks


Mother nature, the human body. It should stay. Is some people like it,


that is fine. I have nothing against it. You know what has surprised me,


lots of women saying it should stay. Maybe they are seeing it as


empowering. As I have a baby daughter in there, I am happy to see


it go. Imagine my grandad opening up his paper and they're being my bats!


It should go. There is nothing wrong with it. He wants it to go. What


about people who think that page three should be banned? Idiots. Do


you know a girl called Lacey, aged 22, from Bedford? Good luck to her.


I do not know her as a person that I have heard she is nice. What about


her decision to be on page three? Nothing to lose. Do you think she


has made Bedford proud? That is not hard. What have we learned? More


people want page three to stay down for it to go. Most people do not


really seem to care, do they? You have heard a range of views. I am


not arguing it should be banned I have not argued for it to be banned


but I have disapproved of it since the 1970s. You do not think it


should be banned? I do not think there should be dictating content


but I do think, if you arrive from outer space in this country in


21st-century Britain, and asked yourself what was the role of women


in society... To stand in their knickers and nothing else, I think


women have more to aspire to than to be able to take their clothes off in


public. The sun no longer has the circulation, or the political


importance, that it had in the 1980s when page three was at its height.


Aren't people just voting with their feet anyway? The market is sorting


this out. Half the number of people buy it now than they did 20 years


ago. Until the time the sun does not have page three any more, I am


entitled to my view that it is outdated and wrong. I am happy to


establish that you do not want to ban it. What should happen? Should


people boycott the paper? I have never implied or said it should be


banned. I have always been forthright. Should people boycott


the paper? I have not called for a boycott. The women's movement, of


which I am part, and this is not about politicians censoring the


press. I am part of the movement which says women can do better than


taking off their clothes and being in their knickers in the newspapers.


Why don't you do something about it? I am doing something about it by


saying it is outdated. I am not doing anything more about it. Should


people buy the paper as long as there is a page three? Would you


like to say to viewers, as long as page three is in the sand, you


should not buy it? Dashes-macro be Son. I am saying, wake up to what


the role of women in society should be, which is more than page three.


If they changed it in Australia, which is where Rupert Murdoch came


from, why can they not change it in this country? You're watching the


Sunday Politics. Coming up in just over 20 minutes... I'll be talking


to man leading In the East Midlands, thousands of


council staff are under threat of redundancy. We'll be hearing from


the leader of Nottinghamshire County Council where 800 jobs are going.


And we're also calling in a few of our police and crime commissioners


for further questioning. One year on, have the Police and


Crime Commissioner is made the impact that was hoped. We have come


to Derbyshire to find out. Hello, I'm Marie Ashby, and joining


me in the studio this week is Michael Mullaney, a Liberal Democrat


Councillor for Hinckley and Bosworth, and the parliamentary


candidate for Bosworth, and Paddy Tipping, a former Labour MP and now


the Police and Crime Commissioner for Nottinghamshire. Paddy, can you


believe it, it has been a year! It has been a year and it has been


good. I have done a lot, there is a lot more to do. Are you glad you


took it on? It is a great job and I working with good people, police and


public. It is a big job. It is, it is a budget of ?200 million. The


budget is reducing, we will talk about that in a moment. Michael, you


are trying to be an MP, how is that going? Going well. I'm talking to


people in Hinckley and buzzwords. Things are going well locally in the


campaign. `` Hinckley and Boswells. Last week, we told you the budget


proposals from Nottinghamshire County Council would be grim. Now we


have the full details. The council says government cuts have left it


with a funding gap of ?154 million over the next three years. Its


proposals include scrapping 800 jobs and cutting back on services like


Trading Standards and highways maintenance. It is also planning to


end a grant to the Nottingham Playhouse of ?93,000 a year.


In addition, council tax would rise by 1.99%...the highest the council


can go without triggering a referendum over its plans. The


Labour`run council says government cuts have left it with no choice,


but the Conservative opposition says there is an alternative. If they had


down as we propose to do, which is proposed `` which is propose ``


which is contract at the private sector. Give people the opportunity


to save their jobs and increase their responsibilities and maybe


look for fresh fields by being an expanding company. They have chosen


not to do that. So at least 800 post will go. It will probably be 1800


people under notice of redundancy and very uncertain about their


future. If they really cared, they could have done it differently.


We are joined by Alan Rhodes, the Labour MP, and Kay Cutts says you


could have avoided this. She is wrong. They left us with a deficit


which we are having to clear up. The government moved the goalposts and


created a problem for million pounds hole which we have to fill. We will


have to make some extremely difficult decisions. I am very angry


about being in this situation. I am also very sorry for the decisions we


are having to take and that people will lose their jobs as a result. It


sounds that `` it sounds as if you are blaming everybody else. We are


not. But when we came into office we inherited a ?130 million mess and


the goalposts were moved a few months later. We now have to clear


it up. We here it is 800 jobs, some of which are part`time. How many


people are really at risk as Mac Kay Cutts says it could be as many as


1800 people. That is scaremongering. There are about 750 actual jobs.


There are 50 posts already vacant. I have been 0


There are 50 posts already vacant. I have been made redundant and it is


not pleasant. It is regrettable that we are in this situation. It


certainly is. It is because of conservative financial incompetence.


We have had no support from central government. Michael Mullaney, you


supporter of the Liberal Democrats, did Labour have to make cuts so


fast? I can't speak for the council which I run, 0


fast? I can't speak for the council which I run, Hinckley and Boswells,


we have not had to make any redundancies and we still have one


of the top ten lowest council taxes in the country. How have they


managed that? By effective management of the council. In some


services are done at county council level. So if we are talking from a


county perspective, we have in Leicester, a conservative run


authority which is proposing cutbacks. We as Liberal Democrats


are set alternatives. There was money in the reserves at Leicester


county council, which is in the bank for a rainy day, civil goodness sake


use it. Alan is saying that the coalition is to blame for this.


There are lots of alternatives which we have proposed. Spend some of that


?99 million. There are still a lot of money spent on glossy magazines,


they could cut back back. There was money spent on middlemen, the


council pays a private company to cut the grass which pays a small


amount of money to another contractor. By cutting out the


middleman in that, they could save money. There were lots of other


ways. They can stop; taking place. Paddy, in things like trading


standards, that impinges on things in your remit. Are you worried?


Yes, I am worried. Trading standards officers have been talking to us.


They have been talking about the reductions. They are talking about


emergency planning, we are all talking with the fire service etc.


We are talking about best use of buildings, CCTV. You have been


talking about these cuts. We are talking about ?50 million a year


over three years. But we are told your annual budget is ?600 million a


year. It doesn't sound that much when you spell it out like that. It


is. It is a lot of money. We are delivering services across the


county to some of the most vulnerable people in


Nottinghamshire. It is a big budget but we have a lot of services to do.


On this issue reserves, we have explained many times that we are


required by statute to carry a percentage of reserves. There are


very few reserves that are unaccounted for. Can't you dip into


those? Not for revenue purposes, only for capital purposes. But we


have to keep a level of reserves in place. Actually, the comparison


between the borough council and the county council is apples and pears.


The pressure on Borough councils is much less. Realistically, do you see


yourselves getting this budget through? It is a consultation at the


moment. We are listening to people and hearing what they tell us. We


are very pleased that we have a lot of respondents. We will take


responsible military and get the budget through. Lots of people very


worried at the moment. Yes, and I have a great deal of sympathy. It is


regrettable that we find ourselves in this situation. Alan Rhodes,


thank you very much. This time a year ago, election fever


was sweeping the country. Queues formed from early in the morning as


people waited to vote for the new Police and Crime Commissioners.


Well, as you know, it was nothing like that! Elected with just 15% of


the vote, they've now been in office for a year, so what difference have


they made? John Hess has spent a day with the Derbyshire Police Chief, to


find out. It is a year since the police and


crime commissioners were elected on the lowest turnout in election


history. We have come to Derbyshire to meet Alan Charles, the PCC here


to find out if this new role is having an impact. This commissioner


wants to make an impact. Today in the Derbyshire market town of


Ripley, the focus was on cutting anti`social behaviour. The


commissioner has a plan. To curb the sale of high`strength blues. It is


an idea first tested in Ipswich. They managed to get independent


retailers to remove anything above 6.5% from the shelves. If we can


roll that out to Derbyshire towns and Derby city, it will have an


impact on local people. If we can get a locally elected official to


get `` to take initiatives, it will be a good thing. One year into


office, Alan Charles believes that on the streets and public meetings,


people are becoming more aware of his public role. To find out from my


perspective what is important to people about policing and also that


they know why I'm here and what I can do. The Derbyshire force has


3000 officers and staff, a budget, set by the Commissioner, of 140


month million pounds. Do I. `` do I contest the budget? Yes, of course I


do. This labour commissioner warns of rising crime caused by the


coalition's welfare reforms. The Home Secretary is saying that crime


is falling even though we have had budget cuts. It is not. What we find


in deprived areas is that crime is starting to go up. Crime is going up


and Derby compared to what it was last year and that follows years of


falling crime. Meet the apprentice. The Derbyshire falls as 12 of them,


getting appearance `` getting experience of a job which the


Commissioner is turning to keep in the public eye. If there are


efficiencies to be found, I want to find those and reinvest those into


the public. The next elections are in 2016. At safeguarding communities


is his immediate priority. We've got another police chief in


the studio to join Paddy Tipping from Nottinghamshire, Alan Hardwick


is the independent PCC for Lincolnshire. Allen, one year on,


what difference have you made in Lincolnshire? The best thing about


the job is that I can get out and about of the office `` out of the


office and meet the people that I serve. What difference have I made?


Our police force numbers have gone up. They were going to go down. I


have close the funding gap of ?3.5 million. No jobs will be lost more


than will they be lost on my watch. We are trying all floors of new


developments in technology. Body worn cameras, portable


fingerprinting... A long list of success? Yes. It sounds arrogant,


but I'm doing a job on behalf of the people of Lincolnshire and I take it


seriously. As was said earlier, I enjoy it. One of your key pledges


was to get money back to Lincolnshire which and had been


taken away by the government. And he been successful? No, I haven't. Do


you feel you have let Lincolnshire down? No. All I can do is do my best


on behalf of the people that I serve. 0


on behalf of the people that I serve. I have spoken personally to


the Home Secretary. Basically, it is a case of the government having


their own problems. I would like to say leave Lincolnshire alone because


we make the best use of the money from the government. We are the most


cost`effective force in the country. If every four 's was run


like ours, we would save ?1 billion. I have told the government that and


got no reply. Michael Mullaney, the the Liberal Democrats were sceptical


about policing crime commissioners. It sounds as if it is working. The


big problem was politicisation of the police force. In Leicestershire,


we have a conservative Police Commissioner. We didn't stand


because we didn't believe in the political involvement in the police


force. So he has not won you over with his successors? There with the


costs, the cost of running those elections in which only one in seven


people budget. ?75 million, that money could have been spent putting


more police on the street. Let's hear what Paddy thinks about what


differences he has made. As you have successors to? I said we would


recruit an 0 successors to? I said we would


recruit an extra 150 police officers. We have recruited them.


They are hitting the streets plus 100 PCSO 's. I said we would reduce


anti`social behaviour by 50%. We are working with councils to do that.


Domestic violence has been a big a few assume you're putting extra


resources in there. Women can begin to feel, and their children, a bit


safer. All well and good, but what about this week, tweeting about


dogs. Is that really important, when crime is still there? We have police


dogs working hard, and apprehending people, . No one would argue that


they do a good job of? But we look after police officers in retirement,


what about the dogs? Is this about the popular vote? It is right that


police officers should take these dogs home in retirement and they do


it out of their own pocket. They should have their vets' fees paid. I


think we should treat animals and people with respect. Seems


reasonable? Yes, of course. But the police commissioners, where they


were launched, there was this big Guha that there would be `` there


was this big noise that they would be people that prevented them defy


with. But most people don't know who they are. `` there was this big


noise that they would be people that we could identify with. They have


not made the impact. One person in a big county like Leicestershire can't


make the impact. The local PCC of Leicestershire, Sir Clive Loader,


said he was too busy to come. He signed up to a part`time job.


Perhaps he is saying that because he was not a politician. Do you have


sympathy with that? I do have sympathy. I worked 70 hours a week.


But he must realise was a full`time job! I did this with my eyes open.


Lincolnshire crime has gone down by 14%. The latest figures I have is


that it has gone down another 2.5% `` 2.7%. That is a success, isn't


it. As for being invisible, that is nonsense. If we were invisible,


people would not bother with what we say or do. I am approached every


single day by the media asked if I have a comment to make. They would


not ask a nobody to comment. As for the whole thing being in nonsense, I


disagree. Does the name of your party give the game away? You all


about democracy. Yes, but policing should not be a matter for


elections. It should not be politicised. It is dangerous to have


one person at the top with too much power. You can have tensions between


police commissioners and chief constables. You certainly can. It is


a recipe for instability. What we want is local police, people being


able to contact their local beat officers. We have the police


commissioners in the studio. We will be talking about that in a second.


A BBC poll has found that many people don't even know they have a


Police and Crime Commissioner, let alone who 0


Police and Crime Commissioner, let alone who it is. But how well`known


are our police chiefs in the East Midlands? Des Coleman has been


making inquiries. Four faces that you should


recognise. Let's see if people in Derby know him. No, you must be a


politician. The face looks familiar but... The name escapes me. Is he a


Labour 0 but... The name escapes me. Is he a


Labour councillor? Not quite. I'm in Castle Donington in Leicestershire.


Let's see if people know who Sir Clive Loader is? Do you know this


man? Know. What if I said his name was Sir Clive Loader? Still means


nothing. Do you know this gentleman? Know. No. Tell the camera. No. In


Nottingham, let's see if people know who Paddy is. Do you recognise this


man? No, Lewis E? Paddy Tipping, Nottingham policing crime


Commissioner. `` who is he? Do you know this man if I showed you this


picture? Paddy Tipping. We love you! He is the chief of the police, isn't


he? Surely people would know this man, used a beer TV presenter `` he


used to be a TV presenter. You know this gentleman? Know. Do you know


this man? Alan Hardwick. He is policing crime Commissioner. Before


you, she knows him! Well done. You got two each. But 50%


of the people near me. You can't be too impressed. That's not a


scientific survey. 70% of people knew about the police authorities.


70% no about policing crime commissioners. That is a tenfold


increase. That is based on what you are telling me, but what we found on


the streets was not bad. Recognition is important. The whole point of the


job... But how will people know to come to you if they don't know who


you are? I would think that most people in Lincolnshire would know


who I was although I am. How do you get the message across? I spent all


week meeting the people 0 get the message across? I spent all


week meeting the people that Weise serve. I have done 135 engagements


with the public over the past year and the amount of work that has come


into my office is double the amount that come into the `` that came into


the police authority's. We are one year in. So you are saying they are


warming to you? It feels as if they are setting me on fire! So you have


had an impact, they have had an impact, people are turning up to the


meetings. The populations are about a million, when you're talking about


the people who go, it is tiny portion. The reality is we could say


this money and users on front line policeman we don't want to get up


political. Time for a round`up of some of the


other political stories in the East Midlands this week ` here's John


Hess with 60 seconds. Married people in the East Midlands


could save up to ?200 a year thanks to a new tax break. That's according


to Loughborough Conservative MP Nicky Morgan. She says 345,000


people here could benefit from the married couples' allowance. But they


will have to wait for a while. `` they will have to stay married for a


while. The measure won't come in for 18 months.


There was support at Westminster from both sides for miners who have


lost their concessionary fuel after the collapse of UK Coal. Mansfield's


Alan Neill wants the government to step in. In a lot of people say this


is a benefit, it is a negotiated arrangement. The government is now


considering ways of helping former miners who have lost out.


And the Conservatives have announced their candidate for Newark at the


next general election. Sitting MP Patrick Mercer resigned the


Conservative whip after lobbying allegations. Robert Jenrick, a


director of Christie's auction house, is the new candidate.


That's the Sunday Politics in the East Midlands, thanks to Paddy


Tipping and Michael Mullaney. Now back to


more equipment so they can see cyclists. Back to you, Andrew.


We learned this week that no more warships will be built at


Portsmouth, the home of the Royal Navy since the days of the Mary Rose


and Francis Drake. But has the city been sacrificed to save jobs on the


Clyde in Scotland? Is England the loser in an effort to keep the


United Kingdom intact? Let's speak to Eddie Bone, he leads the campaign


for an English Parliament. Is England the loser in this attempt to


doubt, Andrew. We would look at it from the campaign for the English


Parliament that the British governance is bribing the Scots to


stay with the union at the cost of English jobs. What is the best


outcome for England when Scotland votes in the referendum next year?


We have got to have an English parliament. What I mean by that is


an endless governor and with a first minister speaking on behalf of the


people of England. -- and English government. If Scotland votes for


independence, that is the union coming to an end. It will be


dissolved legally. England would be going to negotiating table without


true representation. The union continues but it continues without


Scotland. I want to come back to my... That is the constitutional


position. You may not agree with me but that is the constitutional


position. Do you want Scotland to vote for independence next year We


want a fair deal with equality for England. If that can be maintained


or England can have a fair deal within the union, that is brilliant.


Let's have a federal system are all the nations are treated equally If


that cannot happen and Scotland decides to stay, if Scotland goes,


it is an independent England, isn't it? If Scotland votes to leave the


union, what is left of the United Kingdom would be so dominated by


England at Westminster would, in effect, Beale English Parliament,


wouldn't it? I do not agree with you. I think that is a British, deny


list approach. The act of union was a fusion with the King of England to


the King of Scotland. That would come to an end. The Welsh are very


concerned. They are a very small nation. If you have a botched


British come English Parliament the Welsh would be in a very vulnerable


situation. They would not be listened to. Also a situation with


Northern Ireland. There are voices in Northern Ireland talking about


trying to reunite Northern Ireland. It would be a very volatile


situation. Would you prefer England to become an independent nation


separate from what was left of the UK, which would be Wales and


Northern Ireland? Would you like to see England have a seat in the UN? I


want their representation for the people of England. English jobs were


sacrificed because the British government wanted Scotland to


remain... You have answered that very quickly. I am -- very clearly.


Would you want England, without Northern Ireland and Wales to become


a separate nation state? If that is what it takes for people of England


to have their representation - representation that looks at


policies of the NHS, education very different from Wales and Northern


Ireland - then so be it. Independence will need to be the way


forward. We have a small window of opportunity that the federal system


might still work. D1 indenting have a system like Scotland? -- do you


want England to have a system like Scotland? What we need to do now is


implement the process is to get their representation for England. I


would urge your viewers to join our campaign because it is the only way


to protect jobs in England, protect the NHS, protect education.


Otherwise we will see the people in England continually penalised by the


British government is trying desperately to save the union by


giving more to Scotland and Wales. Nice to talk to you. Helen, on this


business of the Clyde versus Portsmouth, it would have been


pretty inconceivable of the British government that believes in the


union to have allowed the Clyde to close. That would have been a


disaster. It would have been. It's dumped Nicola Sturgeon. Hang on a


minute, if there was Scottish independence, England were not allow


its warships to be built in a foreign country. She was unable to


admit there were any downsides to Scottish independence. It would be


dangerous for Scotland to talk about this. You have a Lib Dem and a


Conservative MP with reasonable majorities. They will find that a


killer on their doorstep in the next election. There are no results in


this for Mr Cameron. He has one MP and he will be lucky to have two.


And the South of England, I know Portsmouth is quite an industrial


area, but the South of England is overall Tory territory. He has


backed the Clyde where there are no Tory votes. The Tory problem in


Scotland is crucial. The trend to look out for is the rise of English


nationalism within the Conservative Party. They have the word Unionist


in their official title. If, in election after election, they failed


to win a significant presence in Scotland, and they are failing to


win a majority in Westminster because of that, it is not hard to


imagine that in ten years time that would be a party which has more


autonomy. One person we know who does not sign up to that. David


Cameron is a romantic Unionist at heart he may say that are not any


vote in Scotland but he want to keep the union together. With the Clyde,


you saw a rival together of economic and political interests. It is


economic or the case the greatest shipbuilding capability in the


United Kingdom is in the Clyde. It is politically very helpful for this


government to say to people in Scotland, look at the benefits of


being in the United Kingdom and under their breath, or in the case


of Alistair Carmichael to a camera, look what might go if you leave


That came together very conveniently to the government. Now, how do you


like your politicians? Squeaky clean with an impeccable past? Or are you


happy for them to have a few skeletons in the closet? Well, last


week the Toronto Mayor Rob Ford admitted smoking crack cocaine. He


said he took the drug about a year ago whilst in a drunken stupor. So,


what impact do confessions have on a political career? In a moment, we'll


hear what our panel has to say, but first, take a look at this. Yes I


have smoked crack cocaine. Am I an addict? No. Have I tried it?


Probably one of my drunken stupor is, about a year ago. I have used


drugs in the past. I have used class a drugs in the past. About 30 years


ago at university, I did smoke cannabis. I took cannabis is a few


times at university and it was wrong. Have you snorted cocaine I


tried to but unsuccessfully years ago. I sneezed. The people around


you who took cocaine, they went .. Is it better to confess or the that


get you into even more hot water? It is absolutely better. The confession


by Jacqui Smith was without glamour. Finding a Labour politician who once


smoked cannabis 25 years ago... I do not think it makes you think that


she cannot be a serious politician. Politicians should brace thing about


them which everyone knows. In the case of Ed Miliband, he should not


deny being geeky. That would reek of in authenticity. The Tory MP meant


to be regarded as a rising star turns out he was claiming to heat


his horses stables at the expense of the tax payer. He had made a


generous claim for energy bills in his constituency home. He went


through the papers and found he had been using it to heat the stables


and he laid it all out and did the right thing. He was completely


honest. Is that the end of it? It will still haunt in because energy


is such a big issue. He was right to be honest about it. Helen was


saying, absolutely, you need to be honest about your past. Harriet


Harman said she smoked pot at university. If you have smoked pot,


you can have a front line career. If you have taken class a drugs, you


cannot have a front line career There is the politician confessing


and the remarkable willingness of the public to forgive. It is


enlightened and progressive to forgive a politician for an affair


or taking soft drugs at university. To smoke crack cocaine and demand be


mad of following the Mayor of Toronto does astonishes me. There


was an example in America a few years ago. It was crack cocaine He


was elected having confessed to smoking crack cocaine. I draw the


line around class a drugs. We will put the team on to investigate him.


Help to Bible come back into the headlines again. Mr Cameron will


surroundings by the people who are benefiting from buying their homes


on this scheme in the same way that this is that you used to visit those


who had bought their council houses. It will become hugely politicised.


The Bank of England thinks that unemployment will drop late 201 ,


early 2015. They will put interest rates up. Those with 95% mortgages


will have two find an extra ?40 a month to pay them off. I would not


be surprised if David Cameron is setting up himself with this


trouble. They will not want to raise interest rates. Mark Carney was very


careful to give himself three get out clauses. If unemployment hits a


certain level, Key has three measures which have to be fulfilled


before he goes ahead and raises interest rates. As a Tory


strategist, would you rather go into the election with low and implement


or low interest rates? I think they would stick to low interest rates.


-- low unemployment. It is not just panellists who are raising questions


about it, it is senior figures people in senior economic positions.


They are saying the scheme is fine at the moment. David Cameron will be


surrounded by people who have taken mortgages out at low levels and it


is all fine right now but if interest rates go up, it will not be


cosy. That's all folks. The Daily Politics is back tomorrow on BBC Two


at midday. I'll be back next Sunday at the normal time of 11am.


Remember, if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.


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