10/11/2013 Sunday Politics East Midlands

Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. Ed Miliband's on

the war path over pay day loans, your energy bill and what he calls

the bedroom tax. His spinners say he's resurgent though the polls

don't show it. We'll be talking to his right hand woman, Labour's

Deputy Leader, Harriet Harman. From resurgent to insurgent. Nigel Farage

won an award this week for being a political insurgent. We'll be

talking to the UKIP leader. And Harriet hates, hates, hates page

three. She wants rid of it. But what do you think? We sent Adam out with

some balls. Stay. It is good fun for And in the East Midlands, the

council leader planning 800 job cuts joins us

It is free choice. In London, the row over the super sewer rumbles on.

And with me, fresh from their success at yesterday's Star Wars

auditions, Darth Vader. Obi Wan Kenobi and R2D2. Congratulations on

your new jobs. We'll miss you. Nick Watt, Helen Lewis and Janan Ganesh.

First, the talks with Iran in Geneva. They ended last night

without agreement despite hopes of a breakthrough. America and its allies

didn't think Iran was prepared to go far enough to freeze its nuclear

programme. But some progress has been made and there's to be another

meeting in ten days' time, though at a lower level. The Foreign

Secretary, William Hague, had this to say a little earlier. On the

question of, or will it happen in the next few weeks? There is a good

chance of that. We will be trying again on 20th, 21st of November and

negotiators will be trying again. We will keep an enormous amount of

energy and persistence behind solving this. Will that be a deal

which will please everyone? No, it will not. Compromises will need to

be made. I had discussions with Israeli ministers yesterday and put

the case for the kind of deal we are looking

the case for the kind of deal we are interests of the whole world,

including interests of the whole world,

the world, to reach a diplomatic agreement we can be confident in in

this issue. This otherwise will threaten the world with nuclear

proliferation and conflict in the future. The interesting thing about

this is that it seems future. The interesting thing about

prepared to go far enough over the Iraq heavy water plutonium reactor

it is building. The people who took the toughest line - the French.

France has always had a pretty tough line on Iran. They see it as a

disruptive influence in Lebanon I am reasonably optimistic a deal will

be done later this month when the talks reconvene. Western economic

sanctions have had such an impact on Iran domestic league. They have

pushed inflation up to 40%. Dashes-macro domestically. The new

president had a campaign pledge saying, I will deal with sanctions.

I actually think, by the end of this year, we will see progress in these

talks. Should we be optimistic? The next round of talks will be at

official level. The place to watch will be Israel. The language which

has been coming out of there is still incredibly angry, incredibly

defensive. They do not want a deal at all. Presumably John Kerry has to

go away and tried to get Israel to be quiet about it, even if they

cannot be happy about it. They cannot agree to a deal which allows

the Iraq reactor with plutonium heavy water. You do not need that

with a peaceful nuclear power programme will stop that is why the

Israelis are so nervous. If there is an international deal, Israel could

still bomb that but it would be impossible. The French tactics are

interesting. It says the French blocked it in part because they are

trying to carry favour with Israel but also the Gulf Arab states, who

are really nervous about and Iranians nuclear capability. Who is

that? Saudi Arabia. Newsnight had a story saying that Pakistan is

prepared to provide them with nuclear weapons. You are right about

Saudi Arabia. They are much more against this deal than Israel. Who

is Herman van Rompuy's favourite MEP? It is probably not Nigel

Farage. He plummeted to the bottom of the EU president's Christmas card

list after comparing him to a bank clerk with the charisma of a damp

rag. And he's been at it again this week. Have a look. Today is November

the 5th, a big celebration festival day in England. That was an attempt

to blow up the Houses of Parliament with dynamite and destroy the

Constitution. You have taken the Dahl, technocratic approach to all

of these things. What you and your colleagues save time and again you

talk about initiatives and what you are going to do about unemployment.

The reality is nothing in this union is getting better. The accounts have

not been signed off for 18 years. I am now told it is 19 and you are

doing your best to tone down any criticism. Whatever growth figures

you may have, they are anaemic. Youth unemployment in the

Mediterranean is over 50% in several states. You will notice there is a

rise in opposition dashed real opposition. Much of it ugly

opposition, not stuff that I would want to link hands with. And Nigel

Farage joins me now. Let me put to you what the editor of the Sun had

to say. He says, UKIP will peak at the European election and then it

will begin to get marginalised as we get closer to 2015 because there is

now that clear blue water between Labour and the Tories. What do you

say to that? There may be layered blue water on energy pricing but on

Eastern Europe, there is no difference at all. When Ed Miliband

offers the referendum to match Cameron, even that argument on

Europe will be gone. The one thing that will keep UKIP strong, heading

towards 2015, is if people think in some constituencies we can win. I

cannot sit here right now and say that will be the case. If we get

over the hurdle of the European elections clearly, I think there

will be grounds to say that UKIP can win seats in Westminster. You are

going to run? Without a shadow of a doubt. I do not know which

constituency. The welcome I got in Edinburgh was not that friendly

Edinburgh is not everything in Scotland. I think we have a

realistic chance of winning those elections. If we do that, we will

have the momentum behind us. You might be the biggest party after the

May elections. The National front is likely to do very well in France as

well. They have won the crucial by-election in the South of France.

Have you talked about joining full season in Parliament? The leader has

tried to take the movement into a different direction than her father.

The man she beat, to become leader, actually attended the BNP

conference. The problem she has with her party and we have with her party

is that anti-Semitism is too deep and we will not be doing a deal with

the French national government. You can guarantee you will not be

joining such groups. I can guarantee that. Let's move on to Europe. Let's

accept that the pro-Europeans exaggerate the loss of jobs that

would follow the departure of Britain from the UK. Is there no

risk of jobs whatsoever? No risk whatsoever. There is no risk at all.

There have been some weak and lazy arguments put around about this We

will go on doing business - go on doing trade with Europe. We will

have increased opportunities to do trade deals with the rest of the

world and they will create jobs The head of Nissan, the head of Hitachi

and CBI many other voices in British business, when they all expressed

concern about the potential loss of jobs and incoming investment, we

should just ignore them. With Nissan, the BBC News is making this

a huge story. The boss did not say what was reported. He said there was

a potential danger to his future investment. They have already made

the investments. They have built the plant in Sunderland, which they say

is operating well. We should be careful of what bosses of big

businesses say. This man said they may have two leaves Sunderland if we

did not join the euro. I do not take that seriously. As for the CBI, they

wanted us to join the euro and now they do not. Even within the CBI,

there is a significant minority saying, we do not agree with what

the CBI director-general is saying. The former boss of the organisation

is saying we need a referendum and we need a referendum soon. It

depends on the renegotiation. There is not the uniformity. What we are

beginning to see in the world, is, manufacturing and small businesses

are a lot more voices saying, the costs of membership outweigh any

potential benefit. If you look at the polls, if Mr Cameron does

repatriate some powers and he joins with Labour, the Lib Dems, the

Nationalists in Scotland and Wales, most of business, all of the unions

to say we should stay in, you are going to lose, aren't you? In 1 75,

the circumstances were exactly the same. Mr Wilson promised a

renegotiation and he got very little. The establishment gathered

around him and they voted for us to stay in. I do not think that will

happen now. The scales have fallen. We do not want to be governed by

Herman Van Rompuy and these people. These people are Eurosceptic but

they do not seem to feel strongly enough about it that they are going

to defy all the major parties they vote for, companies that employ

them, unions they are members of. I am absolutely confident there will

be a lot voices in business saying, we need to take this opportunity to

break free, give ourselves a chance of a low regulation lowball trader.

-- global trade. In 1970 53 small publications said to vote yes. I am

not contemplating losing. The most important thing is to get the

referendum. If UKIP is not strong, there will not be a referendum.

Earlier in the year, your party issued a leaflet about the remaining

sample parents being able to come to this country. The EU will allow 29

million Bulgarians and remaining is to come to the UK. That is

technically correct but we both know that is not the case. It is an open

door to these people. Why take the risk? By make out there are 29

million people? I stand by that verdict. It is an open door. 29

million are not going to come. They can if they want. Also 29 million

people from France can come. After these countries have joined, we will

do another leaflet saying that Mr Cameron wants to open the door to 70

million people from Turkey. That is scaremongering. I would not say

that. We have a million young British workers between 16 and 4

without work. A lot of them want work and we do not need another

massive oversupply in the unskilled labour market. Why did you have such

a bad time on question Time this week? The folk that did not buy your

anti-immigration stick. Do you think that group of people in the room was

representative of the voters of Boston? What would make you think it

was unrepresentative? When the county council elections took place

this year in Boston, of the seven seats, UKIP won five and almost won

the other two. I don't think that audience reflected that, but that

doesn't matter. How an audience is put together, how a panel is put

together, on one programme, it doesn't mean much at all. It shows

that your anti-immigrant measure doesn't fly as easily as you hoped

it would? The opinion polls which will be launched on Monday that we

are conducting and nearing completion, they show two things.

Firstly, an astonishing number of people who think it's irresponsible

and wrong to open the doer to Romania and Bulgaria, secondly and

crucially, a number of people whose vote in the European elections and

subsequent general elections may be determined by the immigration

issues. This does matter. It would be the perfect run group the

European elections in May for you if a lot of Bulgarians and remainians

flooded in. You would like that to happen? I think it will happen.

Whether I like it or not, it will happen. You think it will be good

for you, it will stir things up If you say to people in poor countries,

you can come here, get a job, have a safety net of a benefits system

claim child allowance for your kids in Bucharest, people will come You

are ready with the arguments already? You will be disappointed if

only ten turn up? Whether lots come or not we should. Taking the risk

and yes, we are going to make it a major issue in the European

election. Let's leave it there. Thank you very much, Nigel Farage.

The summer of 2013 was not good for Ed Miliband, with questions over his

leadership, low ratings and complaints about no policies. He

bounced back with a vengeance at the Labour Conference in September,

delivering a speech which this week won the spectator political speech

of the year aword. In that speech he focussed on the cost-of-living and

promised a temporary freeze on energy prices. Even said this. The

next election isn't just going to be about policy. It's going to be about

how we lead and the character we show. I've got a message for the

Tories today. If they want to have a debate, about leadership and

character, be my guest And if you want to know the difference between

me and David Cameron, here is an easy way to remember it. When it was

Murdoch v the McCanns, he took the side of Murdoch. When it was the

tobacco lobby versus the cancer charities, he took the side of the

tobacco lobby. When the millionaires wanted a tax cut as people pay the

bedroom tax, he took the side of the millionaires. A come to think of it,

here is an easier way to remember it. David Cameron was a Prime

Minister who introduced the bedroom tax. I'll be the Prime Minister who

repeals the bedroom tax There we go, that will go down with the party

faithful on Tuesday. There will be a debate on the bedroom tax. Labour's

Deputy Leader, Harriet Harman, joints me now. Let's begin with the

bedroom tax or bedroom subsidy. Nearly 11% of people who've come off

Housing Benefits all together after their spare room subsidy was

stopped, isn't that proof that reform was necessary? No. I think

that the whole way that the bet room tax has been attempted to be

justified is completely wrong. What it's said is that it will actually

help take people off the waiting lists by putting them into homes

that have been vacated by people who've downsized by being

incentivised by the bedroom tax so basically if you are a council

tenant or Housing Association tenant in a property with spare bedrooms,

then because the penalty is imposed, you will move to a smaller property.

That is the justification for it. But actually, something like 96 of

the people who're going to be hit by the bedroom tax, there isn't a

smaller property for them to move into. I understand that. Therefore

they are, like the people in my constituency, if they have got one

spare bedroom, they are hit by 700 a year extra to pay and that is

completely unfair As a consequence of people losing the subsidy for

their spare room, they have decided to go out and get work and not

depend on Housing Benefit at all? 11% of them. What's wrong with that?

Well, they are going to review the way 2 the bedroom tax is working.

What is wrong with that? But that's not working. That's the result of

Freedom of Information, 141 councils provided the figures, 25,000 who've

come off benefits, of the 233,0 0 affected, it's about 11%. These

people were clearly able to get a job was having the Housing Benefit

in the first place? But of course the people who're on the benefits

who're not in work are always looking for work and many of them

will find work which is a good thing, but for those who don't find

work, or who find work where it s low-paid and need help with their

rent, it's wrong to penalise them on the basis of the fact that their

family might have grown up and moved away and so you have either got to

move out of your home, away from your family and your neighbourhood,

or you've got to stay where you are and, despite the fact that you are

low-paid or unemployed, you have got to find an extra ?700 a year because

of your rent. So it's very unfair The Government that was

commissioning independent research on the impact of this work change

and welfare policy, particularly on the impact on the most vulnerable,

some of which you have been talking about there, shouldn't they have

waited until you have got the independent research, that

independent investigation before determining your policy? No. In

fact, the Government should have waited until they'd have done their

independent research before they bought into effect something and

imposed it on people in a way which is really unfair. They could have

known. Why didn't you wait? What they could have done is, they could

have asked councils, are people going to be able to Manifest into

smaller homes if we impose the bedroom tax and the answer from

councils and Housing Associations would have been no, they can't move

into smaller homes because which haven't got them there. They should

have done the evaluation before they introduced the policy. We are

absolutely clear and you can see the evidence, people are falling into

rent arrears. Many people, it's a terrifying thing to find that you

can't pay your rent, and some of the people go to payday loan companies

to get loans to pay their rent. It is very, very unfair. The

justification for it, which is people will move, is completely

bogus. There aren't places for them to go. On the wider issue of welfare

reform, a call for the TUC showed that voters support the Government's

welfare reforms, including a majority of Labour voters. Why are

you so out of touch on welfare issues, even with your own

supporters? Nobody wants to see people who could be in a job

actually living at the taxpayers' expense. That's why we have said

that we'll introduce a compulsory jobs guarantee, so that if you are a

young person who's been unemployed for a year, you will have to take a

job absolutely have to take a job, and if you have been unemployed as

somebody over 25, there'll be a compulsory thing after two years of

unemployment. So if you have been on welfare two years? So the main issue

about the welfare bill actually is people who're in retirement who need

support. We have said for the richest pensioners, they shouldn't

have to pay their winter fuel allowance. My point wasn't abouts

the sub stance, it's about how you don't reflect public opinion --

substance. The Parliamentary aid said the political backlog of

benefits and social security is "not yet one that we have won. Labour

must accept that they are not convincing on these matters,". Well,

redo have to convince people and explain the policies we have got and

the view we take. So, for example, for pensioners, who're well off we

are saying they don't need the Winter Fuel Payment that. 's me

saying to you and us saying to people in this country, we do think

that there should be that tightening. For young people, who've

been unemployed, they should be offered jobs but they've got to take

them. So yes, we have to make our case. OK. The energy freeze which we

showed there, on the speech, as popular. The living wage proseles

have been going down well as well. Why is Labour's lead oaf the

Conservatives being cut to 6% in the latest polls? Ed Miliband's own

personal approval rating's gotten worse. Why is that? I'm not going to

disdues ins and outs of weekly opinion polls with you or anybody

else because I'm not a political commentator, but let me say to you

the facts of what's happened since Ed Miliband's been leader of the

Labour Party. We have got 1,950 New Labour councillors, all of those...

But you're... All those who've won their seats against the

Conservatives or the Liberal Democrats and no, Andrew you don't

always get that in opposition. In 1997 after Tony Blair was elected,

the Tories carried on losing council seats. Exceptional circumstances and

these days Mr Blair was 25% ahead in the polls. You were six. The economy

grew at an annual rate of 3% in the third quarter just gone. Everybody,

private and public forecasters now saying that Britain in this coming

year will grow faster than France, Italy, Spain, even Germany will grow

faster. Your poll ratings are average when the economy was

flatlining, what happens to them when the economy starts to grow

Well, I've just said to you, I'm not a political commentator or a pundit

on opinion polls. We are putting policies forward and we are holding

the Government to account for what they are doing and we think that

what they did opt economy pulled the plugs from the economy, delayed the

recovery, made it stagnate and we have had three years lost growth. I

understand that, but it's now starting to grow. Indeed. If you are

no political commentator, let me ask you this, you anticipated the

growth, so you switched your line to no growth to this is growth and

living standards are rising. If the economy does grow up towards 3% next

year, I would suggest that living standards probably will start to

rise with that amount of growth What do you do then? We have not

switched our line because the economy started to grow. All the way

along, we said the economy will recover, but it's been delayed and

we have had stagnation for far too long because of the economic

policies. We have been absolutely right to understand the concerns

people have and recognise that they are struggling with the

cost-of-living. Sure. And we are right to do that. What kind of

living standards stuck to rise next year? -- start to rise next year. I

hope they will. For 40 months of David Cameron's Prime Ministership,

for 39 of those, wages have risen slower than prices, so people are

worse off. I understand that. You will know that the broader

measurement, real household disposable income doesn't show that

decline because it takes everything into account. Going around the

country, people feel it. They say where's the recovery for me. Living

standards now start to rise? If that happens, what is your next line

There is a set of arguments about living standards, the National

Health Service, about the problems that there is in A, which caused

-- are caused by the organisation. I can put forward other lines. All

right. Let me ask you one other question If no newspapers have

signed up to the Government-backed Labour-backed Royal Charter on press

regular lace by 2015 and it looks like the way things are going none

will have, if you are in power, will a Labour Government legislate to

make them? They don't have to sign up to the Royal Charter, that's not

the system. What the Royal Charter does is create a recogniser and

basically says it's for the newspapers to set up their own

regulator. They are doing that. My question is... Let me finish. If

they decide to have nothing to do with the Royal Charter that was

decided in Miliband's office in the wee small hours, will you pass

legislation to make them? The newspapers are currently setting up

what they call... I know that, Harriet Harman. Just let me finish.

OK. Because the newspapers are setting up the independent Press

Standards Organisation. Right. If it is independent, as they say it is,

then the recogniser will simply say, we recognise that this is

independent and the whole point is that, in the past when there's been

skaen deals a tend press have really turned people's lives upside down

and the press have said OK we'll sort things out, leave it to us

then they have sorted things out but a few years later they have slipped

back, all this recogniser will do is check it once every three years and

say yes, you have got an independent system and it's remained independent

and therefore that is the guarantee things won't slip back. Very

interesting. Thank you for that That's really interesting that if

they get their act right, you won't force the alternative on them. We

want the system as set forward by Leveson which is not statute and

direct regulation. I want to stick with the press because I want to

ask, is this a British institution or an out-of-date image for a by

gone age. The Sun's Page 3 has been dividing the nation since it first

appeared way back in 1970. That s 43 years ago. Harriet Harman's called

for it to be removed, so we sent Adam out to ask whether the topless

photographs should stay or go. We have asked people if page three

should stay or go. Page three. What do you think? Nothing wrong with it

at all. I think it is cheap and exploits women. It is a family

newspaper. Should it stay or go Go. I will look like the bad guy. It

should go. You have changed your mind. It is free choice. Girls do

not have to be photographed. Old men get the paper just for that. Know

when your age does that? Not really. Dashes-macro know what your age

Page three girls, should they stay or go? I am not bothered. There are

other ways of getting noticed. Page three of the Sun newspaper every

day, there is a woman with no top on. We got rid of that about 40

years ago in Australia. I am not in favour of censorship. It has been

long enough. It can stay there. What is wrong with it? We want to

encourage children to read the newspapers. I do not want my

children to look at that. It is degrading. Do you think we will see

the day when they get rid of it Yes, I do. I am wondering if I can

turn this into some kind of a shelter. It is tipping it down. I

think the council should do something about their car parks

Mother nature, the human body. It should stay. Is some people like it,

that is fine. I have nothing against it. You know what has surprised me,

lots of women saying it should stay. Maybe they are seeing it as

empowering. As I have a baby daughter in there, I am happy to see

it go. Imagine my grandad opening up his paper and they're being my bats!

It should go. There is nothing wrong with it. He wants it to go. What

about people who think that page three should be banned? Idiots. Do

you know a girl called Lacey, aged 22, from Bedford? Good luck to her.

I do not know her as a person that I have heard she is nice. What about

her decision to be on page three? Nothing to lose. Do you think she

has made Bedford proud? That is not hard. What have we learned? More

people want page three to stay down for it to go. Most people do not

really seem to care, do they? You have heard a range of views. I am

not arguing it should be banned I have not argued for it to be banned

but I have disapproved of it since the 1970s. You do not think it

should be banned? I do not think there should be dictating content

but I do think, if you arrive from outer space in this country in

21st-century Britain, and asked yourself what was the role of women

in society... To stand in their knickers and nothing else, I think

women have more to aspire to than to be able to take their clothes off in

public. The sun no longer has the circulation, or the political

importance, that it had in the 1980s when page three was at its height.

Aren't people just voting with their feet anyway? The market is sorting

this out. Half the number of people buy it now than they did 20 years

ago. Until the time the sun does not have page three any more, I am

entitled to my view that it is outdated and wrong. I am happy to

establish that you do not want to ban it. What should happen? Should

people boycott the paper? I have never implied or said it should be

banned. I have always been forthright. Should people boycott

the paper? I have not called for a boycott. The women's movement, of

which I am part, and this is not about politicians censoring the

press. I am part of the movement which says women can do better than

taking off their clothes and being in their knickers in the newspapers.

Why don't you do something about it? I am doing something about it by

saying it is outdated. I am not doing anything more about it. Should

people buy the paper as long as there is a page three? Would you

like to say to viewers, as long as page three is in the sand, you

should not buy it? Dashes-macro be Son. I am saying, wake up to what

the role of women in society should be, which is more than page three.

If they changed it in Australia, which is where Rupert Murdoch came

from, why can they not change it in this country? You're watching the

Sunday Politics. Coming up in just over 20 minutes... I'll be talking

to man leading In the East Midlands, thousands of

council staff are under threat of redundancy. We'll be hearing from

the leader of Nottinghamshire County Council where 800 jobs are going.

And we're also calling in a few of our police and crime commissioners

for further questioning. One year on, have the Police and

Crime Commissioner is made the impact that was hoped. We have come

to Derbyshire to find out. Hello, I'm Marie Ashby, and joining

me in the studio this week is Michael Mullaney, a Liberal Democrat

Councillor for Hinckley and Bosworth, and the parliamentary

candidate for Bosworth, and Paddy Tipping, a former Labour MP and now

the Police and Crime Commissioner for Nottinghamshire. Paddy, can you

believe it, it has been a year! It has been a year and it has been

good. I have done a lot, there is a lot more to do. Are you glad you

took it on? It is a great job and I working with good people, police and

public. It is a big job. It is, it is a budget of ?200 million. The

budget is reducing, we will talk about that in a moment. Michael, you

are trying to be an MP, how is that going? Going well. I'm talking to

people in Hinckley and buzzwords. Things are going well locally in the

campaign. `` Hinckley and Boswells. Last week, we told you the budget

proposals from Nottinghamshire County Council would be grim. Now we

have the full details. The council says government cuts have left it

with a funding gap of ?154 million over the next three years. Its

proposals include scrapping 800 jobs and cutting back on services like

Trading Standards and highways maintenance. It is also planning to

end a grant to the Nottingham Playhouse of ?93,000 a year.

In addition, council tax would rise by 1.99%...the highest the council

can go without triggering a referendum over its plans. The

Labour`run council says government cuts have left it with no choice,

but the Conservative opposition says there is an alternative. If they had

down as we propose to do, which is proposed `` which is propose ``

which is contract at the private sector. Give people the opportunity

to save their jobs and increase their responsibilities and maybe

look for fresh fields by being an expanding company. They have chosen

not to do that. So at least 800 post will go. It will probably be 1800

people under notice of redundancy and very uncertain about their

future. If they really cared, they could have done it differently.

We are joined by Alan Rhodes, the Labour MP, and Kay Cutts says you

could have avoided this. She is wrong. They left us with a deficit

which we are having to clear up. The government moved the goalposts and

created a problem for million pounds hole which we have to fill. We will

have to make some extremely difficult decisions. I am very angry

about being in this situation. I am also very sorry for the decisions we

are having to take and that people will lose their jobs as a result. It

sounds that `` it sounds as if you are blaming everybody else. We are

not. But when we came into office we inherited a ?130 million mess and

the goalposts were moved a few months later. We now have to clear

it up. We here it is 800 jobs, some of which are part`time. How many

people are really at risk as Mac Kay Cutts says it could be as many as

1800 people. That is scaremongering. There are about 750 actual jobs.

There are 50 posts already vacant. I have been 0

There are 50 posts already vacant. I have been made redundant and it is

not pleasant. It is regrettable that we are in this situation. It

certainly is. It is because of conservative financial incompetence.

We have had no support from central government. Michael Mullaney, you

supporter of the Liberal Democrats, did Labour have to make cuts so

fast? I can't speak for the council which I run, 0

fast? I can't speak for the council which I run, Hinckley and Boswells,

we have not had to make any redundancies and we still have one

of the top ten lowest council taxes in the country. How have they

managed that? By effective management of the council. In some

services are done at county council level. So if we are talking from a

county perspective, we have in Leicester, a conservative run

authority which is proposing cutbacks. We as Liberal Democrats

are set alternatives. There was money in the reserves at Leicester

county council, which is in the bank for a rainy day, civil goodness sake

use it. Alan is saying that the coalition is to blame for this.

There are lots of alternatives which we have proposed. Spend some of that

?99 million. There are still a lot of money spent on glossy magazines,

they could cut back back. There was money spent on middlemen, the

council pays a private company to cut the grass which pays a small

amount of money to another contractor. By cutting out the

middleman in that, they could save money. There were lots of other

ways. They can stop; taking place. Paddy, in things like trading

standards, that impinges on things in your remit. Are you worried?

Yes, I am worried. Trading standards officers have been talking to us.

They have been talking about the reductions. They are talking about

emergency planning, we are all talking with the fire service etc.

We are talking about best use of buildings, CCTV. You have been

talking about these cuts. We are talking about ?50 million a year

over three years. But we are told your annual budget is ?600 million a

year. It doesn't sound that much when you spell it out like that. It

is. It is a lot of money. We are delivering services across the

county to some of the most vulnerable people in

Nottinghamshire. It is a big budget but we have a lot of services to do.

On this issue reserves, we have explained many times that we are

required by statute to carry a percentage of reserves. There are

very few reserves that are unaccounted for. Can't you dip into

those? Not for revenue purposes, only for capital purposes. But we

have to keep a level of reserves in place. Actually, the comparison

between the borough council and the county council is apples and pears.

The pressure on Borough councils is much less. Realistically, do you see

yourselves getting this budget through? It is a consultation at the

moment. We are listening to people and hearing what they tell us. We

are very pleased that we have a lot of respondents. We will take

responsible military and get the budget through. Lots of people very

worried at the moment. Yes, and I have a great deal of sympathy. It is

regrettable that we find ourselves in this situation. Alan Rhodes,

thank you very much. This time a year ago, election fever

was sweeping the country. Queues formed from early in the morning as

people waited to vote for the new Police and Crime Commissioners.

Well, as you know, it was nothing like that! Elected with just 15% of

the vote, they've now been in office for a year, so what difference have

they made? John Hess has spent a day with the Derbyshire Police Chief, to

find out. It is a year since the police and

crime commissioners were elected on the lowest turnout in election

history. We have come to Derbyshire to meet Alan Charles, the PCC here

to find out if this new role is having an impact. This commissioner

wants to make an impact. Today in the Derbyshire market town of

Ripley, the focus was on cutting anti`social behaviour. The

commissioner has a plan. To curb the sale of high`strength blues. It is

an idea first tested in Ipswich. They managed to get independent

retailers to remove anything above 6.5% from the shelves. If we can

roll that out to Derbyshire towns and Derby city, it will have an

impact on local people. If we can get a locally elected official to

get `` to take initiatives, it will be a good thing. One year into

office, Alan Charles believes that on the streets and public meetings,

people are becoming more aware of his public role. To find out from my

perspective what is important to people about policing and also that

they know why I'm here and what I can do. The Derbyshire force has

3000 officers and staff, a budget, set by the Commissioner, of 140

month million pounds. Do I. `` do I contest the budget? Yes, of course I

do. This labour commissioner warns of rising crime caused by the

coalition's welfare reforms. The Home Secretary is saying that crime

is falling even though we have had budget cuts. It is not. What we find

in deprived areas is that crime is starting to go up. Crime is going up

and Derby compared to what it was last year and that follows years of

falling crime. Meet the apprentice. The Derbyshire falls as 12 of them,

getting appearance `` getting experience of a job which the

Commissioner is turning to keep in the public eye. If there are

efficiencies to be found, I want to find those and reinvest those into

the public. The next elections are in 2016. At safeguarding communities

is his immediate priority. We've got another police chief in

the studio to join Paddy Tipping from Nottinghamshire, Alan Hardwick

is the independent PCC for Lincolnshire. Allen, one year on,

what difference have you made in Lincolnshire? The best thing about

the job is that I can get out and about of the office `` out of the

office and meet the people that I serve. What difference have I made?

Our police force numbers have gone up. They were going to go down. I

have close the funding gap of ?3.5 million. No jobs will be lost more

than will they be lost on my watch. We are trying all floors of new

developments in technology. Body worn cameras, portable

fingerprinting... A long list of success? Yes. It sounds arrogant,

but I'm doing a job on behalf of the people of Lincolnshire and I take it

seriously. As was said earlier, I enjoy it. One of your key pledges

was to get money back to Lincolnshire which and had been

taken away by the government. And he been successful? No, I haven't. Do

you feel you have let Lincolnshire down? No. All I can do is do my best

on behalf of the people that I serve. 0

on behalf of the people that I serve. I have spoken personally to

the Home Secretary. Basically, it is a case of the government having

their own problems. I would like to say leave Lincolnshire alone because

we make the best use of the money from the government. We are the most

cost`effective force in the country. If every four 's was run

like ours, we would save ?1 billion. I have told the government that and

got no reply. Michael Mullaney, the the Liberal Democrats were sceptical

about policing crime commissioners. It sounds as if it is working. The

big problem was politicisation of the police force. In Leicestershire,

we have a conservative Police Commissioner. We didn't stand

because we didn't believe in the political involvement in the police

force. So he has not won you over with his successors? There with the

costs, the cost of running those elections in which only one in seven

people budget. ?75 million, that money could have been spent putting

more police on the street. Let's hear what Paddy thinks about what

differences he has made. As you have successors to? I said we would

recruit an 0 successors to? I said we would

recruit an extra 150 police officers. We have recruited them.

They are hitting the streets plus 100 PCSO 's. I said we would reduce

anti`social behaviour by 50%. We are working with councils to do that.

Domestic violence has been a big a few assume you're putting extra

resources in there. Women can begin to feel, and their children, a bit

safer. All well and good, but what about this week, tweeting about

dogs. Is that really important, when crime is still there? We have police

dogs working hard, and apprehending people, . No one would argue that

they do a good job of? But we look after police officers in retirement,

what about the dogs? Is this about the popular vote? It is right that

police officers should take these dogs home in retirement and they do

it out of their own pocket. They should have their vets' fees paid. I

think we should treat animals and people with respect. Seems

reasonable? Yes, of course. But the police commissioners, where they

were launched, there was this big Guha that there would be `` there

was this big noise that they would be people that prevented them defy

with. But most people don't know who they are. `` there was this big

noise that they would be people that we could identify with. They have

not made the impact. One person in a big county like Leicestershire can't

make the impact. The local PCC of Leicestershire, Sir Clive Loader,

said he was too busy to come. He signed up to a part`time job.

Perhaps he is saying that because he was not a politician. Do you have

sympathy with that? I do have sympathy. I worked 70 hours a week.

But he must realise was a full`time job! I did this with my eyes open.

Lincolnshire crime has gone down by 14%. The latest figures I have is

that it has gone down another 2.5% `` 2.7%. That is a success, isn't

it. As for being invisible, that is nonsense. If we were invisible,

people would not bother with what we say or do. I am approached every

single day by the media asked if I have a comment to make. They would

not ask a nobody to comment. As for the whole thing being in nonsense, I

disagree. Does the name of your party give the game away? You all

about democracy. Yes, but policing should not be a matter for

elections. It should not be politicised. It is dangerous to have

one person at the top with too much power. You can have tensions between

police commissioners and chief constables. You certainly can. It is

a recipe for instability. What we want is local police, people being

able to contact their local beat officers. We have the police

commissioners in the studio. We will be talking about that in a second.

A BBC poll has found that many people don't even know they have a

Police and Crime Commissioner, let alone who 0

Police and Crime Commissioner, let alone who it is. But how well`known

are our police chiefs in the East Midlands? Des Coleman has been

making inquiries. Four faces that you should

recognise. Let's see if people in Derby know him. No, you must be a

politician. The face looks familiar but... The name escapes me. Is he a

Labour 0 but... The name escapes me. Is he a

Labour councillor? Not quite. I'm in Castle Donington in Leicestershire.

Let's see if people know who Sir Clive Loader is? Do you know this

man? Know. What if I said his name was Sir Clive Loader? Still means

nothing. Do you know this gentleman? Know. No. Tell the camera. No. In

Nottingham, let's see if people know who Paddy is. Do you recognise this

man? No, Lewis E? Paddy Tipping, Nottingham policing crime

Commissioner. `` who is he? Do you know this man if I showed you this

picture? Paddy Tipping. We love you! He is the chief of the police, isn't

he? Surely people would know this man, used a beer TV presenter `` he

used to be a TV presenter. You know this gentleman? Know. Do you know

this man? Alan Hardwick. He is policing crime Commissioner. Before

you, she knows him! Well done. You got two each. But 50%

of the people near me. You can't be too impressed. That's not a

scientific survey. 70% of people knew about the police authorities.

70% no about policing crime commissioners. That is a tenfold

increase. That is based on what you are telling me, but what we found on

the streets was not bad. Recognition is important. The whole point of the

job... But how will people know to come to you if they don't know who

you are? I would think that most people in Lincolnshire would know

who I was although I am. How do you get the message across? I spent all

week meeting the people 0 get the message across? I spent all

week meeting the people that Weise serve. I have done 135 engagements

with the public over the past year and the amount of work that has come

into my office is double the amount that come into the `` that came into

the police authority's. We are one year in. So you are saying they are

warming to you? It feels as if they are setting me on fire! So you have

had an impact, they have had an impact, people are turning up to the

meetings. The populations are about a million, when you're talking about

the people who go, it is tiny portion. The reality is we could say

this money and users on front line policeman we don't want to get up

political. Time for a round`up of some of the

other political stories in the East Midlands this week ` here's John

Hess with 60 seconds. Married people in the East Midlands

could save up to ?200 a year thanks to a new tax break. That's according

to Loughborough Conservative MP Nicky Morgan. She says 345,000

people here could benefit from the married couples' allowance. But they

will have to wait for a while. `` they will have to stay married for a

while. The measure won't come in for 18 months.

There was support at Westminster from both sides for miners who have

lost their concessionary fuel after the collapse of UK Coal. Mansfield's

Alan Neill wants the government to step in. In a lot of people say this

is a benefit, it is a negotiated arrangement. The government is now

considering ways of helping former miners who have lost out.

And the Conservatives have announced their candidate for Newark at the

next general election. Sitting MP Patrick Mercer resigned the

Conservative whip after lobbying allegations. Robert Jenrick, a

director of Christie's auction house, is the new candidate.

That's the Sunday Politics in the East Midlands, thanks to Paddy

Tipping and Michael Mullaney. Now back to

more equipment so they can see cyclists. Back to you, Andrew.

We learned this week that no more warships will be built at

Portsmouth, the home of the Royal Navy since the days of the Mary Rose

and Francis Drake. But has the city been sacrificed to save jobs on the

Clyde in Scotland? Is England the loser in an effort to keep the

United Kingdom intact? Let's speak to Eddie Bone, he leads the campaign

for an English Parliament. Is England the loser in this attempt to

doubt, Andrew. We would look at it from the campaign for the English

Parliament that the British governance is bribing the Scots to

stay with the union at the cost of English jobs. What is the best

outcome for England when Scotland votes in the referendum next year?

We have got to have an English parliament. What I mean by that is

an endless governor and with a first minister speaking on behalf of the

people of England. -- and English government. If Scotland votes for

independence, that is the union coming to an end. It will be

dissolved legally. England would be going to negotiating table without

true representation. The union continues but it continues without

Scotland. I want to come back to my... That is the constitutional

position. You may not agree with me but that is the constitutional

position. Do you want Scotland to vote for independence next year We

want a fair deal with equality for England. If that can be maintained

or England can have a fair deal within the union, that is brilliant.

Let's have a federal system are all the nations are treated equally If

that cannot happen and Scotland decides to stay, if Scotland goes,

it is an independent England, isn't it? If Scotland votes to leave the

union, what is left of the United Kingdom would be so dominated by

England at Westminster would, in effect, Beale English Parliament,

wouldn't it? I do not agree with you. I think that is a British, deny

list approach. The act of union was a fusion with the King of England to

the King of Scotland. That would come to an end. The Welsh are very

concerned. They are a very small nation. If you have a botched

British come English Parliament the Welsh would be in a very vulnerable

situation. They would not be listened to. Also a situation with

Northern Ireland. There are voices in Northern Ireland talking about

trying to reunite Northern Ireland. It would be a very volatile

situation. Would you prefer England to become an independent nation

separate from what was left of the UK, which would be Wales and

Northern Ireland? Would you like to see England have a seat in the UN? I

want their representation for the people of England. English jobs were

sacrificed because the British government wanted Scotland to

remain... You have answered that very quickly. I am -- very clearly.

Would you want England, without Northern Ireland and Wales to become

a separate nation state? If that is what it takes for people of England

to have their representation - representation that looks at

policies of the NHS, education very different from Wales and Northern

Ireland - then so be it. Independence will need to be the way

forward. We have a small window of opportunity that the federal system

might still work. D1 indenting have a system like Scotland? -- do you

want England to have a system like Scotland? What we need to do now is

implement the process is to get their representation for England. I

would urge your viewers to join our campaign because it is the only way

to protect jobs in England, protect the NHS, protect education.

Otherwise we will see the people in England continually penalised by the

British government is trying desperately to save the union by

giving more to Scotland and Wales. Nice to talk to you. Helen, on this

business of the Clyde versus Portsmouth, it would have been

pretty inconceivable of the British government that believes in the

union to have allowed the Clyde to close. That would have been a

disaster. It would have been. It's dumped Nicola Sturgeon. Hang on a

minute, if there was Scottish independence, England were not allow

its warships to be built in a foreign country. She was unable to

admit there were any downsides to Scottish independence. It would be

dangerous for Scotland to talk about this. You have a Lib Dem and a

Conservative MP with reasonable majorities. They will find that a

killer on their doorstep in the next election. There are no results in

this for Mr Cameron. He has one MP and he will be lucky to have two.

And the South of England, I know Portsmouth is quite an industrial

area, but the South of England is overall Tory territory. He has

backed the Clyde where there are no Tory votes. The Tory problem in

Scotland is crucial. The trend to look out for is the rise of English

nationalism within the Conservative Party. They have the word Unionist

in their official title. If, in election after election, they failed

to win a significant presence in Scotland, and they are failing to

win a majority in Westminster because of that, it is not hard to

imagine that in ten years time that would be a party which has more

autonomy. One person we know who does not sign up to that. David

Cameron is a romantic Unionist at heart he may say that are not any

vote in Scotland but he want to keep the union together. With the Clyde,

you saw a rival together of economic and political interests. It is

economic or the case the greatest shipbuilding capability in the

United Kingdom is in the Clyde. It is politically very helpful for this

government to say to people in Scotland, look at the benefits of

being in the United Kingdom and under their breath, or in the case

of Alistair Carmichael to a camera, look what might go if you leave

That came together very conveniently to the government. Now, how do you

like your politicians? Squeaky clean with an impeccable past? Or are you

happy for them to have a few skeletons in the closet? Well, last

week the Toronto Mayor Rob Ford admitted smoking crack cocaine. He

said he took the drug about a year ago whilst in a drunken stupor. So,

what impact do confessions have on a political career? In a moment, we'll

hear what our panel has to say, but first, take a look at this. Yes I

have smoked crack cocaine. Am I an addict? No. Have I tried it?

Probably one of my drunken stupor is, about a year ago. I have used

drugs in the past. I have used class a drugs in the past. About 30 years

ago at university, I did smoke cannabis. I took cannabis is a few

times at university and it was wrong. Have you snorted cocaine I

tried to but unsuccessfully years ago. I sneezed. The people around

you who took cocaine, they went .. Is it better to confess or the that

get you into even more hot water? It is absolutely better. The confession

by Jacqui Smith was without glamour. Finding a Labour politician who once

smoked cannabis 25 years ago... I do not think it makes you think that

she cannot be a serious politician. Politicians should brace thing about

them which everyone knows. In the case of Ed Miliband, he should not

deny being geeky. That would reek of in authenticity. The Tory MP meant

to be regarded as a rising star turns out he was claiming to heat

his horses stables at the expense of the tax payer. He had made a

generous claim for energy bills in his constituency home. He went

through the papers and found he had been using it to heat the stables

and he laid it all out and did the right thing. He was completely

honest. Is that the end of it? It will still haunt in because energy

is such a big issue. He was right to be honest about it. Helen was

saying, absolutely, you need to be honest about your past. Harriet

Harman said she smoked pot at university. If you have smoked pot,

you can have a front line career. If you have taken class a drugs, you

cannot have a front line career There is the politician confessing

and the remarkable willingness of the public to forgive. It is

enlightened and progressive to forgive a politician for an affair

or taking soft drugs at university. To smoke crack cocaine and demand be

mad of following the Mayor of Toronto does astonishes me. There

was an example in America a few years ago. It was crack cocaine He

was elected having confessed to smoking crack cocaine. I draw the

line around class a drugs. We will put the team on to investigate him.

Help to Bible come back into the headlines again. Mr Cameron will

surroundings by the people who are benefiting from buying their homes

on this scheme in the same way that this is that you used to visit those

who had bought their council houses. It will become hugely politicised.

The Bank of England thinks that unemployment will drop late 201 ,

early 2015. They will put interest rates up. Those with 95% mortgages

will have two find an extra ?40 a month to pay them off. I would not

be surprised if David Cameron is setting up himself with this

trouble. They will not want to raise interest rates. Mark Carney was very

careful to give himself three get out clauses. If unemployment hits a

certain level, Key has three measures which have to be fulfilled

before he goes ahead and raises interest rates. As a Tory

strategist, would you rather go into the election with low and implement

or low interest rates? I think they would stick to low interest rates.

-- low unemployment. It is not just panellists who are raising questions

about it, it is senior figures people in senior economic positions.

They are saying the scheme is fine at the moment. David Cameron will be

surrounded by people who have taken mortgages out at low levels and it

is all fine right now but if interest rates go up, it will not be

cosy. That's all folks. The Daily Politics is back tomorrow on BBC Two

at midday. I'll be back next Sunday at the normal time of 11am.

Remember, if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.