Browse content similar to 19/01/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. Nick Clegg says | :00:37. | :00:44. | |
Chris Rennard must apologise. "What for?", say his friends. We'll ask | :00:45. | :00:49. | |
senior Lib Dem minister Danny Alexander whose side he's on. | :00:50. | :00:54. | |
What about the voters? What do they make of the Lib Dems? We hear the | :00:55. | :00:57. | |
views of a Sunday Politics focus group. | :00:58. | :01:08. | |
In the East Midlands, how much would you want to allow smacking where you | :01:09. | :01:20. | |
MP. And we'll get the verdict on Portsmouth MP Penny Mordaunt's | :01:21. | :01:23. | |
plunge from the highboard from who else but the Minister for | :01:24. | :01:24. | |
Portsmouth. And with me, as always, the best and | :01:25. | :01:28. | |
the brightest political panel in the business: and in London, Boris | :01:29. | :01:33. | |
Johnson has pledged to recruit more volunteers. Nick Watt, Helen Lewis | :01:34. | :01:36. | |
and Janan Ganesh, who'll be tweeting throughout the programme. | :01:37. | :01:48. | |
First this morning, Nick Clegg is considering a fresh investigation | :01:49. | :01:50. | |
into the behaviour of the party s former chief executive, Lord | :01:51. | :01:59. | |
Rennard. Last week, a lawyer appointed by the party decided that | :02:00. | :02:02. | |
no action could be taken against him, but that women who had accused | :02:03. | :02:05. | |
the Lib Dem peer of inappropriate behaviour "were broadly credible". | :02:06. | :02:08. | |
More than 100 party activists are demanding an apology. Chris Rennard | :02:09. | :02:18. | |
say he's nothing to apologise for and the party whip must be returned | :02:19. | :02:22. | |
to him. Helen, this is not going away. It is turning into a crisis | :02:23. | :02:27. | |
for the Lib Dems? They have only got seven female MPs. There is no female | :02:28. | :02:35. | |
Cabinet Minister. There is a reasonable chance that after the | :02:36. | :02:39. | |
next election there might in no female Liberal Democrat MPs at all. | :02:40. | :02:42. | |
A scandal like this will not encourage women into the party. Have | :02:43. | :02:48. | |
they made a complete mess of it You feel for Nick Clegg, because he | :02:49. | :02:51. | |
launched an utterly rigorous process. He called in a QC. The QC | :02:52. | :02:58. | |
looked at it and decided that the evidence did not meet the burden of | :02:59. | :03:04. | |
proof in a criminal trial. But clearly he felt that the evidence | :03:05. | :03:07. | |
from these women was very credible and serious. He said it was broadly | :03:08. | :03:16. | |
credible. Clearly it was serious. Rennard is being advised by Lord | :03:17. | :03:20. | |
Carlisle, fellow Liberal Democrat peer, who is giving purely legal | :03:21. | :03:24. | |
advice. He is saying it has not reached that edge-mac, so do not | :03:25. | :03:30. | |
apologise. This is a political issue, so the agony continues. Nick | :03:31. | :03:35. | |
Clegg was hoping to keep the party whip withdrawn. But they did not | :03:36. | :03:40. | |
launch an enquiry, the Webster enquired it was not an enquiry, it | :03:41. | :03:46. | |
was a legal opinion. You're right, it was an internal opinion. The Lib | :03:47. | :03:51. | |
Dems distinguished themselves from the other two parties not with | :03:52. | :03:56. | |
policy, but with ethics. They presented themselves as being | :03:57. | :04:00. | |
cleaner, and in possession of more Robert Jay than Labour and the | :04:01. | :04:03. | |
Conservatives. That will be harder to do now. -- more probity. There | :04:04. | :04:18. | |
are a Lib Dem peers that are more relaxed about taking him back and | :04:19. | :04:22. | |
letting him pick up the party whip. That is the problem. There is a | :04:23. | :04:28. | |
generational issue. The older Lib Dems in the House of Lords, the kind | :04:29. | :04:31. | |
of thing, he did not do anything that wrong. The younger activists | :04:32. | :04:36. | |
and those outside the House of Lords, they think it is a pollen. | :04:37. | :04:42. | |
Yes, there is definitely a sort of what you are complaining about sort | :04:43. | :04:47. | |
of thing. That is symptomatic of a cultural difference. The report last | :04:48. | :04:54. | |
year found that they tried to manage the allegations. They did not do | :04:55. | :04:58. | |
what any company would do if there was an allegation of sexual | :04:59. | :05:02. | |
harassment. If there had not in the by-election in Eastleigh, this story | :05:03. | :05:07. | |
may not have got the attention it did. Channel four news are the one | :05:08. | :05:13. | |
that really drove this. Without their reporting, this might not have | :05:14. | :05:17. | |
come out. It is not going to go away, because the issue of whether | :05:18. | :05:20. | |
he gets the party whip back will come week. -- will come up this | :05:21. | :05:29. | |
week. So it's not been a great week for | :05:30. | :05:33. | |
the Liberal Democrats and none of this will help public perceptions of | :05:34. | :05:36. | |
a party already struggling in the polls. In a moment, I'll be talking | :05:37. | :05:39. | |
to the second most senior Liberal Democrat in the land, Danny | :05:40. | :05:42. | |
Alexander. First, Adam Fleming went to Glasgow to find out what voters | :05:43. | :05:45. | |
there made of the party. Let's put the Lib Dems under the | :05:46. | :05:48. | |
microscope in Glasgow. We have recruited some Glaswegians who have | :05:49. | :05:51. | |
voted for them, and some who have not. Hello, John. Let's get started. | :05:52. | :05:56. | |
I will be watching them through the one-way mirror, along with the | :05:57. | :05:58. | |
former Liberal Democrat MP John Barrett. Let's get to the heart of | :05:59. | :06:02. | |
the matter straightaway. If the Lib Dems were a biscuit, what would they | :06:03. | :06:05. | |
be? Tunnock's Teacake. Hard on the outside but soft in the middle. They | :06:06. | :06:12. | |
give in. There is no strength of character there. They just give in | :06:13. | :06:19. | |
to whoever. Ouch. Rich Tea. A bit bland and boring. Melts and crumbles | :06:20. | :06:29. | |
under any sort of heat and pressure. Morrison's own brand of biscuit not | :06:30. | :06:32. | |
top of the range like Marks Spencer or Sainsbury's or Waitrose. | :06:33. | :06:35. | |
A custard cream, sandwiched between David Cameron and the Tories. I | :06:36. | :06:45. | |
think they were concerned that they had one exterior, but something else | :06:46. | :06:48. | |
was really inside. They did not find it too definitive, too clear, too | :06:49. | :06:52. | |
concise, too tasty, too appealing. Which means? It is a worry. If that | :06:53. | :07:01. | |
is their gut reaction, literally, let's find out what is behind it. | :07:02. | :07:06. | |
The context of them being stuck between a rock and a hard place for | :07:07. | :07:10. | |
them as a party, I feel slightly sorry for them. I think people who | :07:11. | :07:17. | |
voted for them will think they are victims as well, being sold down the | :07:18. | :07:22. | |
river by going to the coalition I think the ones, particularly student | :07:23. | :07:25. | |
fees, that was an important one to a lot of people. People felt cheated. | :07:26. | :07:32. | |
I agree. Just going back on that, so publicly and openly, it makes you | :07:33. | :07:35. | |
think, well, what do they stand for? It is trust. Harsh. But our group is | :07:36. | :07:44. | |
feeling quite upbeat about the state of the economy. What have the Lib | :07:45. | :07:48. | |
Dems contributed to that? I am not quite sure. It is George Osborne, a | :07:49. | :07:54. | |
Conservative, who is the Chancellor, so it is mostly down to him. The | :07:55. | :08:00. | |
Liberal Democrats are mostly on their coat tails, if you know what I | :08:01. | :08:04. | |
mean. Have the Lib Dems done anything, anyone? I think the | :08:05. | :08:08. | |
Liberal Democrats were responsible for increasing the tax allowance, | :08:09. | :08:12. | |
?10,000 for next year. I think they have played a major role in that. | :08:13. | :08:16. | |
Yes. I am glad somebody noticed that. We will have helped everyone | :08:17. | :08:24. | |
who is receiving a salary, and it is interesting that nobody has | :08:25. | :08:32. | |
mentioned that. Now, let's talk about personalities. Everyone knows | :08:33. | :08:41. | |
him, but what about say, this guy? Alexander. Danny, they got it | :08:42. | :08:45. | |
straightaway. I actually quite like him. I think he talks very clearly | :08:46. | :08:49. | |
and it is easy to understand what he says. Fellow redhead Charles Kennedy | :08:50. | :08:56. | |
is popular as well. He is very charismatic and it is through him | :08:57. | :08:59. | |
that I voted Liberal the last few times. But who is this? I recognise | :09:00. | :09:07. | |
him but I cannot tell you his name. That is the party's leader in | :09:08. | :09:09. | |
Scotland, Willie Rennie, and the party's role in the upcoming | :09:10. | :09:12. | |
referendum on independence draws a blank as well. It does not feel like | :09:13. | :09:16. | |
they have featured, it is SNP and Labour and Conservative. They are | :09:17. | :09:34. | |
last in a four horse race. We have been talking about the biggest issue | :09:35. | :09:37. | |
in Scottish politics, independence and the referendum and the Lib Dems | :09:38. | :09:40. | |
are nowhere. They are not mentioned and they seem to think it is all | :09:41. | :09:44. | |
about Labour and the SNP. The Lib Dems are part of the Better Together | :09:45. | :09:47. | |
campaign and we are being drowned out among that. Looking to the | :09:48. | :09:50. | |
future, what messages do voters have for the Lib Dems? Get a backbone. Do | :09:51. | :09:56. | |
not go back on your policies or your word. Be strong and decisive. If you | :09:57. | :10:02. | |
will pardon the expression, man up. DIY, do it yourself. Do not award | :10:03. | :10:09. | |
bankers and other people for failure. Stand up. Be your own | :10:10. | :10:17. | |
person, party. If that focus group represented the whole country, what | :10:18. | :10:20. | |
would the result for the Lib Dems be at 2015 in the election? If they get | :10:21. | :10:26. | |
the message across between now and then, the result could be OK. If | :10:27. | :10:31. | |
they do not get the message across, the result could be disaster. Maybe | :10:32. | :10:35. | |
they would do a lot better on their own. I do not think you are seeing | :10:36. | :10:41. | |
the true Lib Dems because they are in the coalition. They maybe deserve | :10:42. | :10:45. | |
another chance. Crucially for the Lib Dems, that means there is some | :10:46. | :10:49. | |
hope, but there is also plenty of anger, some disappoint, and a bit of | :10:50. | :10:58. | |
bafflement as well. And watching that with me, senior | :10:59. | :11:01. | |
Liberal Democrat and Chief Secretary to the Treasury Danny Alexander | :11:02. | :11:06. | |
Welcome to the programme. One of the things that comes through from the | :11:07. | :11:11. | |
focus group is that if there is any credit around for the economic | :11:12. | :11:15. | |
recovery, it is the Tories that are getting it, and you are not? What | :11:16. | :11:20. | |
can you do about that? The first thing to say is that the economy | :11:21. | :11:25. | |
would not be recovering if it was not for the Liberal Democrats. If it | :11:26. | :11:29. | |
was not for our decision right beginning in 2010 to form a strong, | :11:30. | :11:33. | |
stable coalition government that to deal with the problems, we would | :11:34. | :11:37. | |
still be in the mess that Labour left us with. Why are you not | :11:38. | :11:43. | |
getting the credit? That was one focus group. It was interesting to | :11:44. | :11:50. | |
hear opinions. We have to work very hard to get across the message that | :11:51. | :11:54. | |
the economy would not be recovering without the Liberal Democrats. | :11:55. | :11:58. | |
People would not be seeing the largest income tax cuts for a | :11:59. | :12:00. | |
generation without the Liberal Democrats. The ?10,000 threshold | :12:01. | :12:07. | |
that one of the people referred to is coming into peoples pay packets | :12:08. | :12:10. | |
this year. Lots of people recognise that. There was the one person in | :12:11. | :12:20. | |
the focus groups. This is your measure of success, raising the | :12:21. | :12:23. | |
people at which people pay income tax. But most of the voters do not | :12:24. | :12:27. | |
even give you credit for that. The role that we haven't British | :12:28. | :12:32. | |
politics as a party, is that we are the only party that can be trusted | :12:33. | :12:36. | |
to deliver a fair society and a strong economy. People know they | :12:37. | :12:42. | |
cannot trust the Labour Party. We saw it again from Ed Miliband this | :12:43. | :12:46. | |
morning. You cannot trust the Labour Party with the nation's finances. It | :12:47. | :12:55. | |
may well be your policy, the income tax threshold, but it is the Tories | :12:56. | :13:00. | |
that are getting the credit? I do not think that is true. I have spent | :13:01. | :13:05. | |
lots of time meeting photos and lots of people recognise that if it was | :13:06. | :13:08. | |
not for the Liberal Democrats, people would not be seeing those tax | :13:09. | :13:13. | |
cuts. We are helping disadvantaged children in schools. It is right | :13:14. | :13:18. | |
that we have to work very hard between now and polling day to do | :13:19. | :13:22. | |
several things, to make sure that we secure the recovery, there can be no | :13:23. | :13:27. | |
complacency. The economic recovery is in its early stages and we need | :13:28. | :13:31. | |
to make sure it is sustainable. We need to make sure the benefits of | :13:32. | :13:35. | |
the recovery are shared out people who have made sacrifices, people on | :13:36. | :13:40. | |
low pay, people who have seen their savings are eroded. The Tories have | :13:41. | :13:47. | |
now hijacked another Lib Dem policy, another big hike in the | :13:48. | :13:50. | |
minimum wage. You spoke about the need to make sure that people on low | :13:51. | :13:55. | |
pay benefit from the recovery, a big hike in the minimum wage. Did the | :13:56. | :14:00. | |
Chancellor consulting on this? We have been talking about it for some | :14:01. | :14:06. | |
time. Vince Cable asked the low pay commission for advice on this. Why | :14:07. | :14:11. | |
did Vince Cable not make this announcement, why was it the | :14:12. | :14:16. | |
Chancellor? Let me say a few other things about this. If we are going | :14:17. | :14:20. | |
to secure the recovery, this year we have to make sure that businesses | :14:21. | :14:24. | |
start investing. We have got to get Roddick typically rising. An | :14:25. | :14:28. | |
increase in the minimum wage is something that needs to follow that. | :14:29. | :14:34. | |
We will not do it unless the low pay commission adviser as it is | :14:35. | :14:36. | |
important for the economy at this stage. Did you know the Chancellor | :14:37. | :14:42. | |
was coming out with that statement? I did not know he was going to say | :14:43. | :14:45. | |
something on that particular day. We have worked together on it in the | :14:46. | :14:51. | |
tragedy to see what the economic impact would be, and to emphasise | :14:52. | :14:57. | |
that it is the commission, which has credibility with business, trade | :14:58. | :15:02. | |
unions and government. It must not be a politically motivated increase. | :15:03. | :15:07. | |
So you did not know, and Vince Cable, and it is properly a matter | :15:08. | :15:11. | |
for him as the Business Secretary, he did not make the announcement? I | :15:12. | :15:20. | |
don't think that's right. I don t clear every word I say with him I | :15:21. | :15:25. | |
don't expect him to do the same to me. The Lib Dems have told us before | :15:26. | :15:34. | |
it was the Treasury that was blocking this from happening. We | :15:35. | :15:40. | |
were going to ask the low pay commission to advise us on bringing | :15:41. | :15:45. | |
the minimum wage back up. During the financial crisis, wages have been | :15:46. | :15:50. | |
lower-than-expected but it's also right, we shouldn't act in a hasty | :15:51. | :15:59. | |
way, we should listen to what the commission has to say, and if they | :16:00. | :16:04. | |
don't recommend an increase we have to make sure economic conditions are | :16:05. | :16:09. | |
there to get it right. Not only are the Tories getting credit for that, | :16:10. | :16:13. | |
our Scottish voters group showed that people have still not forgiven | :16:14. | :16:19. | |
you for ratting on tuition fees and that was a broken promise that | :16:20. | :16:23. | |
didn't even apply to the people in Scotland, where there are no tuition | :16:24. | :16:29. | |
fees! Nick Clegg has been very clear about the issues that that brought | :16:30. | :16:37. | |
up. If you look at our manifesto, the University of London said we | :16:38. | :16:42. | |
delivered about 70% of our policies in the manifesto. They haven't | :16:43. | :16:47. | |
forgiven you for the big one. The big promise we made was to cut | :16:48. | :16:56. | |
income tax the millions of people. That is a policy which is putting | :16:57. | :17:02. | |
money back into the pockets of working people. It is only possible | :17:03. | :17:07. | |
because we are delivering our economic plan in government with the | :17:08. | :17:11. | |
Conservatives. Now we have to make sure, through tax cuts, through | :17:12. | :17:18. | |
looking at issues like the minimum wage and other groups who have made | :17:19. | :17:21. | |
sacrifices, make sure that benefit is shared. I am not going to agree | :17:22. | :17:28. | |
to anything which undermines the confidence of businesses to invest | :17:29. | :17:31. | |
in this country over the next 1 months. Speaking of Scotland, the | :17:32. | :17:40. | |
Lib Dems, why do they now look largely irrelevant in the battle for | :17:41. | :17:44. | |
the union? Not one of our focus group even knew who your Scottish | :17:45. | :17:51. | |
leader is. I don't accept that. I have spent a lot of time with | :17:52. | :17:57. | |
Alistair Carmichael and others, we are all making the case every day. | :17:58. | :18:04. | |
If Scotland votes to be independent, it will be in a much worse financial | :18:05. | :18:09. | |
position within the European Union. Scotland will be contributing to the | :18:10. | :18:16. | |
rebate for the UK, rather than benefiting from it. It has been a | :18:17. | :18:21. | |
disaster for your Scottish based to have joined a coalition with the | :18:22. | :18:25. | |
Tories. It may have been the right thing to do, you say it is in the | :18:26. | :18:29. | |
national interest, but Scottish Lib Dems did not expect to be in a | :18:30. | :18:36. | |
coalition with the Tories. By the way I think it is also in the | :18:37. | :18:39. | |
national interests and the interests of the people for Scotland, cutting | :18:40. | :18:46. | |
the income tax of Scottish people, stabilising the economy. We are now | :18:47. | :18:52. | |
seeing good growth. But you are in meltdown. I don't accept that. We | :18:53. | :18:59. | |
will see what happens in the 20 5 election. I think we have a record | :19:00. | :19:05. | |
to be proud of, we have played a very important role in clearing up | :19:06. | :19:09. | |
the mess Labour made in the economy, of making sure the | :19:10. | :19:12. | |
Coalition government tackles the problems in this country, but does | :19:13. | :19:19. | |
so in a fair way. I think the biggest risks to the economic | :19:20. | :19:23. | |
recovery over the next few years is either a majority Labour government | :19:24. | :19:27. | |
or a majority Conservative government. Labour you cannot trust | :19:28. | :19:32. | |
with the finances, the Tories want us to play chicken with the European | :19:33. | :19:36. | |
Union which would truly be a disaster to investment in this | :19:37. | :19:40. | |
country. You announced this week that if Scotland votes to leave the | :19:41. | :19:45. | |
UK, it would be the British Treasury that would guarantee all British | :19:46. | :19:51. | |
government debt. There wouldn't be a negotiation, but the backstop would | :19:52. | :19:54. | |
be that even if they didn't take anything, we would still guarantee | :19:55. | :19:59. | |
the debt. What was happening in the markets that you needed to calm them | :20:00. | :20:04. | |
down? We were getting quite a few questions from the people we rely on | :20:05. | :20:10. | |
to lend us money. We are still borrowing billions of pounds every | :20:11. | :20:15. | |
month as a country. Those people were asking us to clarify this | :20:16. | :20:26. | |
point. It was becoming a serious concern? It wasn't reflected in the | :20:27. | :20:32. | |
guilty yields. I follow the bond market quite carefully and there was | :20:33. | :20:38. | |
no sign this was having an impact. That's why the right thing to do was | :20:39. | :20:44. | |
to clarify this point now, rather than the concerns being reflected in | :20:45. | :20:49. | |
what you imply, and I think it is a bad idea for Scotland to vote for | :20:50. | :20:52. | |
separation but it would be wrong to allow for the fact that question is | :20:53. | :20:57. | |
on the table to cost taxpayers in the UK more money and higher | :20:58. | :21:00. | |
interest payments simply because Alex Salmond has put that question | :21:01. | :21:05. | |
on the table. That's why I think it was the right thing to do. There | :21:06. | :21:10. | |
were a lot of calls from the focus group that you need to be different. | :21:11. | :21:16. | |
Nick Clegg has embarked on this aggressive differentiation. Where | :21:17. | :21:20. | |
you can be different is the bankers' bonuses. What conceivable | :21:21. | :21:25. | |
reason could there be for anybody at RBS getting a bonus twice in their | :21:26. | :21:33. | |
salary? We have not been approached by RBS in terms of those votes. I | :21:34. | :21:39. | |
would be sceptical about an approach from RBS if it can. It shows what we | :21:40. | :21:45. | |
have presided over as a party in government, massive reductions. . | :21:46. | :21:53. | |
I'm not asking you about that, I'm asking what conceivable case there | :21:54. | :22:03. | |
can be for a bank that has failed to sell its branches even though | :22:04. | :22:06. | |
ordered by the Government, still has 38 billion of toxic debt on its | :22:07. | :22:12. | |
balance sheet, I ask again what possible reason should they get | :22:13. | :22:17. | |
twice salary as a bonus? Your right to say RBS is in a very different | :22:18. | :22:26. | |
position to other banks, it is mostly owned by the state. RBS | :22:27. | :22:31. | |
hasn't put a case to us but they might do so I would like to look at | :22:32. | :22:36. | |
what they would say, but I would be sceptical as to whether a case could | :22:37. | :22:39. | |
be made given some of the things you said, but also the fact that it is a | :22:40. | :22:43. | |
bank that has benefited from the taxpayer standing behind it. Now RBS | :22:44. | :22:51. | |
has to focus more on domestic retail. Let me turn to Chris | :22:52. | :22:56. | |
Rennard, ten women have accused him of sexual harassment. He denies | :22:57. | :23:02. | |
every case. Who do you believe? We have been through a process on this | :23:03. | :23:08. | |
as a party. A report has been issued on this. I agree with Alistair | :23:09. | :23:17. | |
Webster on this, he has made clear that while he cannot prove what | :23:18. | :23:21. | |
happened to a criminal standard that there is clear there has been | :23:22. | :23:25. | |
considerable distress and harm caused. I agree with him about that | :23:26. | :23:31. | |
and that's why it is necessary for Chris Rennard to apologise as he has | :23:32. | :23:40. | |
been asked to do. If he refuses to apologise, should he be denied the | :23:41. | :23:45. | |
Lib Dem whip in the Lords? I don't think he should be readmitted to the | :23:46. | :23:49. | |
Liberal Democrat group in the House of Lords until such time as the | :23:50. | :23:54. | |
disciplinary process, including the apology, has been done properly We | :23:55. | :23:59. | |
are very democratic party, it is a matter for our group in the House of | :24:00. | :24:03. | |
Lords in due course to make that judgement. Party HQ has had a lot of | :24:04. | :24:09. | |
complaints from party members about the fact no apology has been made. | :24:10. | :24:13. | |
The appropriate committee would need to look at that and decide what | :24:14. | :24:17. | |
action needs to be taken because these are very serious matters. We | :24:18. | :24:24. | |
as a party have learned a lot, taken a long, hard look at ourselves, to | :24:25. | :24:29. | |
change the way we work. The apology does need to be made. We are told | :24:30. | :24:36. | |
that Lord Newby, the Chief Whip of the Liberal Democrats in the House | :24:37. | :24:40. | |
of Lords, we are told he has shaken hands with Chris Rennard and | :24:41. | :24:45. | |
welcomed him back. That decision has not been taken yet. I think Lord | :24:46. | :24:53. | |
Newby would share my view on this. Have you shaken his hand and | :24:54. | :25:00. | |
welcomed him back? No, I haven't. Does Nick Clegg have the power to | :25:01. | :25:07. | |
deny Chris Rennard as the whip? I am making it clear that a lack of | :25:08. | :25:12. | |
apology is totally unacceptable and therefore we have to take steps if | :25:13. | :25:17. | |
that is not forthcoming. His view and my view is that Lord Rennard | :25:18. | :25:22. | |
should not be readmitted to the House of Lords if that is not | :25:23. | :25:29. | |
forthcoming. In our party, our group in the House of Lords has two in the | :25:30. | :25:37. | |
end take a view for itself. And they can override Nick Clegg's view? I | :25:38. | :25:44. | |
hope that when they look at this... Do they have the power to override | :25:45. | :25:51. | |
Nick Clegg? They have the power to decide who should be the whip. The | :25:52. | :26:00. | |
failure to follow up the simple human demand for an apology for the | :26:01. | :26:07. | |
stress that has been caused is totally unacceptable. Your party is | :26:08. | :26:18. | |
totally down lighted on this -- divided on this. Here is what Lord | :26:19. | :26:28. | |
Carlile had to say. A total nonsense, hyperbole. It is a | :26:29. | :26:34. | |
ridiculous statement to make and we have seen Alistair Webster, the QC | :26:35. | :26:39. | |
who did this investigation, comment on that himself this morning. He has | :26:40. | :26:43. | |
followed the process the party laid down in its rules, which sets the | :26:44. | :26:47. | |
standard for the investigation which asked him to report on the evidence | :26:48. | :26:53. | |
he has found, but he also has a duty of confidentiality and | :26:54. | :27:00. | |
responsibility under the data protection legislation as well. Here | :27:01. | :27:05. | |
is what your activists have said in a letter to the Guardian. This shows | :27:06. | :27:17. | |
there are strong opinions, but why should Chris Rennard apologise for | :27:18. | :27:22. | |
something he denies, unproven allegations, on an unpublished | :27:23. | :27:27. | |
report that Chris Rennard has not been allowed to read? He should | :27:28. | :27:31. | |
apologise because he wants to continue to be a member of the | :27:32. | :27:34. | |
Liberal Democrats and this is the recommendation that has been made by | :27:35. | :27:41. | |
the internal disciplinary process. Webster himself said this was not an | :27:42. | :27:47. | |
inquiry, it is an opinion. If Chris Rennard apologises on this basis, he | :27:48. | :27:52. | |
opens himself to civil lawsuits He says he is not going to do it. As a | :27:53. | :27:59. | |
Liberal Democrat you join the party because you believe in its values, | :28:00. | :28:04. | |
you abide by its rules. One of those rules is that we have a process if | :28:05. | :28:10. | |
there are disciplinary allegations. The committee of the party supported | :28:11. | :28:16. | |
Webster's recommendations, one of which was that an apology should be | :28:17. | :28:19. | |
made because he clearly found distress had been caused. Will there | :28:20. | :28:27. | |
now be a proper inquiry? I don't think any of these legalistic | :28:28. | :28:37. | |
things, I don't think he can have it both ways. Will there be a proper | :28:38. | :28:44. | |
inquiry? Alistair Webster did do a proper inquiry. There was a proper | :28:45. | :28:48. | |
report into what happened at the time and we have learned a lot from | :28:49. | :28:52. | |
this is a party, and the most important thing now is that Chris | :28:53. | :28:58. | |
Rennard apologises. You have made that clear. What kind of biscuits | :28:59. | :29:09. | |
are you? Are you a Tunnocks? Soft on the inside? It is good of you to be | :29:10. | :29:16. | |
advertising a Scottish product. We just wondered if you weren't tough | :29:17. | :29:21. | |
enough to take on Ed Balls. Thank you. More than tough enough is the | :29:22. | :29:39. | |
answer to that. Generally governments are a bit | :29:40. | :29:43. | |
rubbish at IT projects. They tend to run way over budget and never quite | :29:44. | :29:46. | |
achieve what they promised. So the revelations of a former spy that the | :29:47. | :29:49. | |
US and British security agencies were in fact astonishingly efficient | :29:50. | :29:52. | |
at eavesdropping on the digital communications of their citizens | :29:53. | :29:55. | |
came as a bit shock. But just how worried should we be about their | :29:56. | :29:57. | |
clandestine activity? In his latest revelation, former US | :29:58. | :29:59. | |
by Edward Snowden has claimed that America's National Security Agency | :30:00. | :30:01. | |
operates a secret database called Dishfire. It collect 200 million | :30:02. | :30:07. | |
mobile phone messages every day from around the world, accessed, he says, | :30:08. | :30:13. | |
why British and American spies. This week, the president has outlined a | :30:14. | :30:17. | |
series of surveillance reforms, including Ning to the storage of the | :30:18. | :30:21. | |
phone call information of millions of Americans, and no Morse -- and no | :30:22. | :30:28. | |
more spying on allies like Angela Merkel. Critics say that the British | :30:29. | :30:38. | |
intelligence agencies have refused to acknowledge even the need for a | :30:39. | :30:42. | |
debate on the issue. The Foreign Secretary William six says that we | :30:43. | :30:45. | |
have a very strong system of checks and balances. -- William Hague. ?? | :30:46. | :30:53. | |
new line Nick Pickles is director of the pressure group Big Brother | :30:54. | :30:56. | |
Watch. The Labour MP Hazel Blears in on Parliament's Intelligence And | :30:57. | :30:59. | |
Security Committee. They're here to go head to head. | :31:00. | :31:10. | |
Welcome to both of you. Hazel Blears, let me come to you first. | :31:11. | :31:15. | |
President Obama has made some major changes as a result of what we have | :31:16. | :31:18. | |
learned that the NSA in America was up to. But British politicians seem | :31:19. | :31:24. | |
to, they are not up for this kind of thing, they are hoping it will go | :31:25. | :31:29. | |
away? It is not going away and that is why my committee, the | :31:30. | :31:34. | |
Intelligence And Security Committee, has decided to launch an enquiry | :31:35. | :31:37. | |
into whether the legal framework is up-to-date. We have had massive | :31:38. | :31:45. | |
technological change. We have had a call for evidence. Some of the | :31:46. | :31:50. | |
sessions will be open so that people can see what the evidence is. | :31:51. | :31:54. | |
Obviously some of the information will have to be classified, but on | :31:55. | :31:59. | |
the committee, there is a real commitment to say, there is a big | :32:00. | :32:03. | |
debate going on, let's see if the system is as Rob asked as we can | :32:04. | :32:07. | |
make it. The big question is oversight and the call for evidence | :32:08. | :32:10. | |
that the committee has issued is not mention oversight. It is ten years | :32:11. | :32:15. | |
since the Foreign Affairs Committee said that the committee should be a | :32:16. | :32:22. | |
fully elected committee chosen by Parliament and not the Prime | :32:23. | :32:29. | |
Minister. It has changed, actually. The Prime Minister nominates people | :32:30. | :32:34. | |
and the house gets to him -- gets to approve. In America, they have a | :32:35. | :32:42. | |
separation of power, the president does not nominate Kennedy. | :32:43. | :32:50. | |
Basically, Hazel Blears, you're an establishment lackey? I do not think | :32:51. | :32:55. | |
so. Most of the people on the committee have some experience of | :32:56. | :32:59. | |
intelligence and these issues. In this country, we have robust | :33:00. | :33:03. | |
scrutiny, compared to some of her European neighbours. We have | :33:04. | :33:07. | |
Parliamentary scrutiny, the interception commissioners, and | :33:08. | :33:13. | |
ministers have to sign the warrants. But there may be room for | :33:14. | :33:16. | |
improvement, which is why we are having the enquiry. Do not forget, | :33:17. | :33:23. | |
President Obama said that the agency should not have the ability to | :33:24. | :33:27. | |
collect data, he wanted to put more safeguards in. That is essential for | :33:28. | :33:31. | |
the work of the agencies. If you cannot see the data, you cannot take | :33:32. | :33:35. | |
the connections and see the patterns. Some people never talk | :33:36. | :33:40. | |
about the threat from terrorism, it is all about travesty. There are | :33:41. | :33:45. | |
several thousand people in this country, as we are talking, who are | :33:46. | :33:50. | |
actively planning to do a country harm. When this debate started in | :33:51. | :33:55. | |
the US, the NSA head stood up and said there are 54 plots that have | :33:56. | :33:59. | |
been detected by this capability that has detected and that in bulk. | :34:00. | :34:06. | |
Now the head of the NSA has admitted that the number is actually zero. It | :34:07. | :34:12. | |
is not the intelligence committee in the US that did the work to reduce | :34:13. | :34:18. | |
that number, it was a Judiciary Committee. The fact that we have two | :34:19. | :34:22. | |
different bodies doing this in this country, it means that you do not | :34:23. | :34:29. | |
get the correct view. How can people have confidence in a body when if | :34:30. | :34:32. | |
you go around Europe, for example, or the world, we are not at the end | :34:33. | :34:38. | |
not requiring judges to not sign warrants? I do not accept that the | :34:39. | :34:43. | |
committee failed on that range of issues. You look at the reports on | :34:44. | :34:49. | |
7/7. Two reports by the committee get to the heart of it. If you look | :34:50. | :34:54. | |
at that terrorist attack on our country, people will say, why did | :34:55. | :34:59. | |
you not have them on the radar? The agencies are between a rock and a | :35:00. | :35:05. | |
hard race. They have got to be subject to oversight, but beanie | :35:06. | :35:10. | |
capability. Did you know about Dishfire? We go to GCHQ on a regular | :35:11. | :35:16. | |
basis and I know about the capabilities that we have got. Some | :35:17. | :35:22. | |
of the names of these programmes, we would not necessarily know. But did | :35:23. | :35:29. | |
you know that GCHQ had the capability to use Dishfire, or to | :35:30. | :35:34. | |
get Dishfire material from the NSA? I knew and my committee knew that we | :35:35. | :35:39. | |
had the capability to collect data, and these days, people do not write | :35:40. | :35:43. | |
letters, they do not use landline telephones, they use the Internet | :35:44. | :35:49. | |
and text in, so it is important that the agencies are able to keep up | :35:50. | :35:52. | |
with that take the logical change. What should happen? The proper legal | :35:53. | :36:00. | |
framework should include, if a company is cooperating, as Google | :36:01. | :36:04. | |
and Facebook do, it should be illegal for GCHQ to hack into them. | :36:05. | :36:10. | |
In the US, Lundberg estimate that this has driven a 35mm and hole in | :36:11. | :36:15. | |
the US economy because people do not trust but there are systems are | :36:16. | :36:19. | |
secure. We need to know that GCHQ are not trying to use a different | :36:20. | :36:24. | |
door into the system, whether by hacking or foreign intelligence. We | :36:25. | :36:28. | |
need judicial oversight with judges and not politicians signing off. The | :36:29. | :36:36. | |
final 30 seconds to you. As a result of the changes in the Justice and | :36:37. | :36:40. | |
Security act, the committee is accountable to Parliament and not | :36:41. | :36:44. | |
the Prime Minister. Those changes are taking place, and I am up for | :36:45. | :36:48. | |
the debate if we need more change or not. But I want British agencies to | :36:49. | :36:53. | |
have more power to protect the people in this country. Thank you to | :36:54. | :36:58. | |
both of you. It's coming up to 11:40. You're watching the Sunday | :36:59. | :37:01. | |
Politics. Coming up in just over 20 minutes, we'll get the verdict of | :37:02. | :37:04. | |
the Minister for Portsmouth on that dive from the Portsmouth MP. Ouch! | :37:05. | :37:29. | |
In the East Midlands, the educational crisis in our region. We | :37:30. | :37:42. | |
are in a `` inside one school to find out about the special measures. | :37:43. | :37:47. | |
People ask me what school I went to. They'd apply, was this `` that the | :37:48. | :37:58. | |
school that was in the news? How much money would you want to allow | :37:59. | :38:03. | |
fracking New Year all? Would you hold out for ?1 million? `` near | :38:04. | :38:13. | |
your home. I am joined by Pauline Latham and Graham Allen. Welcome to | :38:14. | :38:17. | |
you both. Pauline, you have been raising a topic, MPs are reluctant | :38:18. | :38:24. | |
to go there, relationships. You were talking about a debate regarding | :38:25. | :38:37. | |
Relate. They are well`known for dealing with families with | :38:38. | :38:41. | |
Asperger's syndrome. They also deal with, not just men and women, they | :38:42. | :38:47. | |
deal with all sorts of relationships, the councils, to | :38:48. | :38:55. | |
councils want to cut the funding. It will cost more money for social | :38:56. | :38:59. | |
services and schools if they do that. But do they have a choice? You | :39:00. | :39:06. | |
are imposing these huge cuts so they have to make these cuts elsewhere. | :39:07. | :39:11. | |
The government has put in ?30 million towards relationship | :39:12. | :39:14. | |
counselling and what we want them to do is to do things locally. So that | :39:15. | :39:20. | |
services are not cut. We are asking them to prioritise this because it | :39:21. | :39:25. | |
will save them money in the long`term. In these difficult times, | :39:26. | :39:30. | |
it is advice and support that Relate offer, is a top priority? It is a | :39:31. | :39:38. | |
priority. We need to protect those services. Unfortunately, if we take | :39:39. | :39:42. | |
a council like Derby or Nottingham, we are losing half of the government | :39:43. | :39:48. | |
grants coming from the Department of communities in government in five | :39:49. | :39:52. | |
years. If you were to lose half of your grant or your funding or any | :39:53. | :39:57. | |
viewer to do that, you would realise that a lot has to go. This is a | :39:58. | :40:02. | |
priority and social services will have to pick up the problems if | :40:03. | :40:07. | |
Relate do not do their job. It will cost the council is more in the long | :40:08. | :40:12. | |
run. Onto another troubled relationship, that between teachers | :40:13. | :40:18. | |
and Ofsted. Six of Nottingham's 14 secondary schools are in special | :40:19. | :40:22. | |
measures after an Ofsted bullets at the end of last year. With the | :40:23. | :40:27. | |
problems at the Al`Madina school in Derby, many teachers say there is a | :40:28. | :40:31. | |
sense of crisis in the system. One school that field the inspection | :40:32. | :40:38. | |
said it is already back contract. `` that field. `` that failed. | :40:39. | :40:51. | |
Its schools inspected by Ofsted in one week, the majority declared | :40:52. | :40:56. | |
inadequate and put in special measures. What is it like being put | :40:57. | :41:00. | |
in the spotlight, being told you're still is not very good, especially | :41:01. | :41:06. | |
when the GCSE exams are a few months ago `` away? People ask me what | :41:07. | :41:12. | |
school I went in. When I replied they say, was that the school that | :41:13. | :41:19. | |
was in the news? I say yes. We see Will we ever boost our reputation? | :41:20. | :41:26. | |
We do not want to hit the bottom already. It was quite low but now I | :41:27. | :41:36. | |
am pleased with the Euro Levantine. It has improved a lot. `` year 11 | :41:37. | :41:44. | |
team. The timetable has been rewritten each year to put more | :41:45. | :41:48. | |
focus on those about to set their exams. The commitment to students | :41:49. | :41:54. | |
has always been there but now we are able to focus that commitment and | :41:55. | :41:58. | |
make sure that the kids have got the best chance to achieve the best | :41:59. | :42:04. | |
results they can. There is more choice available now. I will, it was | :42:05. | :42:11. | |
result. The Ofsted swoop in Nottingham was described as | :42:12. | :42:18. | |
destructive by some. For these leaders here it served the | :42:19. | :42:21. | |
weaknesses they knew that existed at the school. It was our assessment of | :42:22. | :42:28. | |
systems that led us to decide that we needed to change the way the | :42:29. | :42:35. | |
school was chained `` functioning fundamentally. Were you surprised? | :42:36. | :42:46. | |
No. We found the process to be positive. It is no secret that | :42:47. | :42:50. | |
Nottingham's schools lag behind the regional averages. While this one | :42:51. | :42:55. | |
except the Ofsted Berdych, elsewhere there is concern. The inspector's | :42:56. | :43:06. | |
these may be advancing free schools. Five out of the six failing schools | :43:07. | :43:10. | |
are in your constituency. What is the latest you have heard? The way | :43:11. | :43:14. | |
that Ofsted came and was discouraging both to teachers and | :43:15. | :43:18. | |
pupils. They need to know they are doing a good job but need to do | :43:19. | :43:23. | |
better. So two things, one there will be a challenge board set up to | :43:24. | :43:27. | |
help us deal with the media problems and help school leadership to go | :43:28. | :43:33. | |
through. But what I am concerned about is that we tackle the | :43:34. | :43:37. | |
long`term problems. Ofsted have been in my constituency now for the last | :43:38. | :43:41. | |
20 years and they are not having a strategic view. What we need to do | :43:42. | :43:45. | |
is improve the supply, the wrong material, so that children arrive at | :43:46. | :43:50. | |
primary school ready and they arrive at secondary school ready there. | :43:51. | :43:54. | |
Teachers are told us they think there is a political move here to | :43:55. | :44:00. | |
pave the way for more free schools. It may or may not be true. What is | :44:01. | :44:05. | |
important is that we try and tackle these long`term problems. Otherwise | :44:06. | :44:09. | |
we will keep hurting our head against a brick while every single | :44:10. | :44:13. | |
year. Above all we need to help those babies and children be ready | :44:14. | :44:17. | |
for school on that first aired `` first day. The Ofsted report have | :44:18. | :44:26. | |
also mentioned that some children do not arrive ready. We need Ofsted and | :44:27. | :44:30. | |
the Department of education to say that. I have been to see Michael | :44:31. | :44:36. | |
Gove and the chief of Ofsted to make sure they get this message. Ofsted | :44:37. | :44:46. | |
were in the primary schools last year. Have they turned it around in | :44:47. | :44:51. | |
Derby? There is more features on the schools and they have not been | :44:52. | :44:59. | |
allowed to slap and carry on. `` ball`carriers. `` focus. If they do | :45:00. | :45:16. | |
not do that, it will not improve. It does not look good that these two | :45:17. | :45:20. | |
cities have such problems in education. Some of these schools are | :45:21. | :45:27. | |
not local academy `` authority schools. I would hope the Pauline | :45:28. | :45:32. | |
would agree with me that it is pointless and having a 1% or 2% | :45:33. | :45:38. | |
increase in schools, we need to address the fundamentals. You went | :45:39. | :45:42. | |
to London to try and address some of the issues with Michael Gove. A few | :45:43. | :45:49. | |
months later, the teachers that you had taken with you, they found out | :45:50. | :45:54. | |
that their schools were in special measures. I will not make any | :45:55. | :45:59. | |
personal criticisms of Michael Gove, what is vital is that politicians | :46:00. | :46:03. | |
and Ofsted don't have the short`term view of what we want to do for this | :46:04. | :46:07. | |
year or next year, but really help us get the wrong material sorted | :46:08. | :46:11. | |
out. That way all kids will attain and to better at school, which is | :46:12. | :46:17. | |
what we all want. We did ask Michael Gove to speak to us, but he was | :46:18. | :46:27. | |
unavailable for interview. We had another official who said they would | :46:28. | :46:32. | |
speak to us. Are you telling me that parents | :46:33. | :46:36. | |
would want us to work together to improve things for the children? One | :46:37. | :46:40. | |
of the things that I know since we have doing `` doneness, everyone is | :46:41. | :46:47. | |
talking about education. I would want my children to be at schools | :46:48. | :46:52. | |
that were good schools that were meeting their needs. So, parents, | :46:53. | :46:57. | |
good. We have children voting with their feet in Nottingham. We have | :46:58. | :47:02. | |
the lowest attendance and secondary schools almost across the country, | :47:03. | :47:07. | |
so is going wrong. We need to get children in school succeeding, | :47:08. | :47:11. | |
enjoying what is happening and coming out with things that matter | :47:12. | :47:15. | |
to them. At the moment to many of them are not coming. Let's get them | :47:16. | :47:21. | |
into school, let's get them succeeding. Perhaps it is the | :47:22. | :47:24. | |
culture of the city that is the problem here. Is it an attitude of | :47:25. | :47:30. | |
low attainment? From the reports from the schools that have failed, | :47:31. | :47:33. | |
there is a consistent message that talks about low expectations. I | :47:34. | :47:40. | |
think it is easy to say that. I think there are low expectations. | :47:41. | :47:44. | |
But that is not for one minute to say they are not huge challenges | :47:45. | :47:49. | |
here. Yes, I know there are other cities like Liverpool that to face | :47:50. | :47:53. | |
similar challenges. The challenges are not unique but that is not to | :47:54. | :47:58. | |
underestimate them. So no quick answers here, but yes, there is a | :47:59. | :48:04. | |
culture. There has been a culture, it is embedded in some places which | :48:05. | :48:08. | |
size these young people won't achieve any more. That is rubbish, | :48:09. | :48:16. | |
they will. `` which say that these. Maybe it is the parents who are to | :48:17. | :48:20. | |
blame here not the children? No, I think what we need to do is work | :48:21. | :48:26. | |
together. But what we have not got yet... Some of the children are | :48:27. | :48:30. | |
being sent to school in nappies by the parents. They were children who | :48:31. | :48:36. | |
were not raised properly, there is an intergenerational cycle. We need | :48:37. | :48:40. | |
to work on the long`term. What I did not hear from Ofsted was what I've | :48:41. | :48:44. | |
reports to the board in Nottingham was that there should be a ten year | :48:45. | :48:49. | |
plan so we help parents and babies before they even get to school, so | :48:50. | :48:56. | |
they can achieve when we `` they get there. Ofsted seem to be willing the | :48:57. | :49:01. | |
ends but not on the means. Let's get that strategy. They are there to | :49:02. | :49:06. | |
inspect, not to set their plans and targets for the schools. We need | :49:07. | :49:10. | |
some answers as well saying they are not good. It is their heads that | :49:11. | :49:15. | |
need to do that strategic view of the tenuous. The parents need to | :49:16. | :49:19. | |
have high expectations of the schools and of their own children. | :49:20. | :49:23. | |
But if you do not get children into school, you cannot educate them. One | :49:24. | :49:28. | |
of the problems here in this area seems to be getting children into | :49:29. | :49:32. | |
school. Graham is right, it is about early years and focusing them. Do | :49:33. | :49:36. | |
you think the parents are to blame? They are. They have not been | :49:37. | :49:41. | |
inherited properly and we need to cycle `` in that cycle. `` parented. | :49:42. | :49:49. | |
We need a strategic view that they want to go for it and improve | :49:50. | :49:55. | |
education for everybody. We have six secondary schools in Nottingham | :49:56. | :50:00. | |
failing. That was a miscalculation about blitzing people. If you want | :50:01. | :50:04. | |
people to be sensible and rational and have good behaviour, you have to | :50:05. | :50:08. | |
start with Ofsted. Maybe Ofsted should be in measured `` special | :50:09. | :50:14. | |
measures. It has pointed out the problems but we need Ofsted and the | :50:15. | :50:18. | |
Department of education to work locally to improve standards. When | :50:19. | :50:23. | |
the Prime Minister decided to become a `` to make a major speech on | :50:24. | :50:28. | |
fracking, he came to our area to make it. Looking at the map of areas | :50:29. | :50:35. | |
under consideration, it shows that most of the East Midlands is under | :50:36. | :50:40. | |
consideration. You can see it concentrates at the moment on the | :50:41. | :50:44. | |
north of the region. Any fracking would first have to get planning | :50:45. | :50:48. | |
permission and our councils report that so far they have had no | :50:49. | :50:52. | |
applications. In the meantime the government is trying to get support | :50:53. | :50:56. | |
with an offer to compensate communities and individuals who | :50:57. | :50:59. | |
suffer. The point I would make having been to see yesterday, on | :51:00. | :51:05. | |
Monday, the oil platforms that are already there on the | :51:06. | :51:08. | |
Nottinghamshire, Lincolnshire border, it is worth making the point | :51:09. | :51:12. | |
that those went ahead without the sort of community benefit is that we | :51:13. | :51:16. | |
are promising the shale. ?100,000 when he well is dug. 1% of revenues | :51:17. | :51:26. | |
which could be seven to ?10 million for a well. And 100% retention of | :51:27. | :51:34. | |
business rates for a set of Wells for a local authority. Is it a | :51:35. | :51:40. | |
tempting offer? Des Coleman has followed the Prime Minister to find | :51:41. | :51:43. | |
out if the people in one area I tempted by the money. | :51:44. | :51:48. | |
This is Worksop high Street. David Cameron was up the street saying | :51:49. | :51:54. | |
that people would get a share from the profits from fracking. Is that | :51:55. | :52:00. | |
enough for the people here? I think it is too dangerous. It can affect | :52:01. | :52:05. | |
the water supply, it can cause earthquakes in various areas. I am | :52:06. | :52:10. | |
not happy with it at all. I need definite proof that we are | :52:11. | :52:14. | |
guaranteed it will not cause any ill effects to the environment. David | :52:15. | :52:17. | |
Cameron says some of the profits may go to the people are some of the | :52:18. | :52:21. | |
local councils. Can we always believe what politicians say? Can | :52:22. | :52:27. | |
we? Really? I think fracking is a good idea if it takes us away from | :52:28. | :52:33. | |
coal. We need the energy, then why not. My concern was that in France | :52:34. | :52:39. | |
it has been banned, but it is a French company I have heard is | :52:40. | :52:43. | |
coming over to the UK to do it here. I was concerned it is not all right | :52:44. | :52:47. | |
for the French but it is all right for the English. It is a load of | :52:48. | :52:52. | |
rubbish. I do not think politicians do for ordinary people. It would be | :52:53. | :52:59. | |
a miracle if it works here. If the pollution or whatever they are using | :53:00. | :53:04. | |
for the fracking gets into the water system, we don't know the long`term | :53:05. | :53:09. | |
solution or the long`term problems we may have. What about the | :53:10. | :53:14. | |
financial benefits that David Cameron is offering? I think it is a | :53:15. | :53:18. | |
little bit of blackmail. Plenty of interesting views there. We are | :53:19. | :53:23. | |
joined by a Green party councillor in Nottinghamshire. Wellcome. A lot | :53:24. | :53:31. | |
of people there we heard very cautious really about fracking, | :53:32. | :53:35. | |
especially in the places that they live in. What are your concerns | :53:36. | :53:41. | |
particularly? We have huge concerns about the environmental risks. | :53:42. | :53:45. | |
Fracking requires a large amount of water. It is about half 1 million | :53:46. | :53:49. | |
tonnes per fracked of which 50% of the water is completely lost and | :53:50. | :53:54. | |
nobody knows where it actually ends up in there is a risk of polluting | :53:55. | :54:02. | |
our aquifers. The water that reads services has got chemicals additives | :54:03. | :54:08. | |
in it. `` resurfaces. We do not know what to do with it or who will be | :54:09. | :54:14. | |
paying for that polluted water. There are some risks are about | :54:15. | :54:18. | |
earthquakes as we have seen in Blackpool. House prices have fallen | :54:19. | :54:23. | |
significantly since then. Obviously the industry would despite some of | :54:24. | :54:28. | |
the points you have made. `` dispute. The industry could say we | :54:29. | :54:34. | |
are sitting on billions perhaps billions of pounds worth of gas. | :54:35. | :54:39. | |
Those are estimates and in the States we have seen those estimates | :54:40. | :54:45. | |
were hugely overestimated by 42% and there is far less than they are. | :54:46. | :54:50. | |
Nobody has gone down there and seen how much there actually is. So you | :54:51. | :54:57. | |
are saying you the `` were right to be cautious? That is right. David | :54:58. | :55:02. | |
Cameron says that these are incentives that communities will | :55:03. | :55:07. | |
find hard to turn down? There is a lot of profit to be made via the | :55:08. | :55:15. | |
companies, it should be invested in the local communities. `` made by | :55:16. | :55:22. | |
the companies. Politicians are not flavour of the month and nobody | :55:23. | :55:26. | |
believes we do anything. The proof will be in... Whether we give it and | :55:27. | :55:34. | |
we get it will be shown. They will be able to say whether it is | :55:35. | :55:38. | |
actually happening. Where you stand on, Graham? Were David Cameron went | :55:39. | :55:44. | |
to visit is a few miles away from where my dad was a minor and we | :55:45. | :55:49. | |
missed a trick in Mrs Thatcher and others closing the pets. We have the | :55:50. | :55:53. | |
technology to burn coal cleanly but that chance is gone. My view is this | :55:54. | :56:05. | |
is a non`proven industry. Couldn't the money from fracking help to | :56:06. | :56:08. | |
regenerate the area is your talking about? Are we missing something | :56:09. | :56:16. | |
there? This is ridiculous. We are facing an energy crisis. Sooner or | :56:17. | :56:19. | |
later we will run out of fossil fuels so we need to invest now in | :56:20. | :56:25. | |
insulating homes. But fracking could be one of the anger `` and that? For | :56:26. | :56:33. | |
years now we in the Green party have been saying we need to start with | :56:34. | :56:37. | |
renewables. It is not happening enough. We did not know about this | :56:38. | :56:44. | |
gas 20 years ago. Let's use that now and invest in the future when we | :56:45. | :56:50. | |
know that will run out. What they do in America they do we out in the | :56:51. | :56:54. | |
plains, there is virtually no people out there. We now and I'm `` in our | :56:55. | :57:02. | |
region where we extract coal there is subsidised. They are looking | :57:03. | :57:08. | |
around the non`dash`mac Nottinghamshire`literature border. | :57:09. | :57:13. | |
We are talking about the majority of the East Midlands. You are saying we | :57:14. | :57:20. | |
are not, Pauline? There is nothing in Northamptonshire. There is not in | :57:21. | :57:28. | |
Lincolnshire. It is concentrated at the border at the moment and we will | :57:29. | :57:34. | |
have to see how that pans out. You seem to be saying it will be much | :57:35. | :57:38. | |
more widespread. It is the majority of Nottinghamshire. Something else I | :57:39. | :57:45. | |
would like to add here, we are facing a huge environmental crisis. | :57:46. | :57:51. | |
Burning further fossil fuels is actually contributing to this. We | :57:52. | :57:55. | |
must change because as we have just seen this winter with all the | :57:56. | :57:59. | |
floods, the big freeze in the States, this costs as a lot of money | :58:00. | :58:03. | |
and human lives. So burning further coal or gas, is not the answer. The | :58:04. | :58:12. | |
councils have not had any applications in and they have not | :58:13. | :58:16. | |
sign anything off. We will have to leave that there. This has not been | :58:17. | :58:21. | |
proven, not reducing conservation. With a round`up of other news, here | :58:22. | :58:26. | |
is our political editor the 60 seconds. | :58:27. | :58:36. | |
Lester's Sikh community is calling for an independent enquiry into | :58:37. | :58:39. | |
claims that the British military helped plan the assault in the | :58:40. | :58:48. | |
Golden Temple in Amritsar. People are being asked to write to their | :58:49. | :58:54. | |
local MPs over the issue. British Gas are being asked about a scheme | :58:55. | :59:09. | |
that they have pulled out of to help people reduce gas costs. | :59:10. | :59:13. | |
British Gas says government changes means a cannot fund the scheme. | :59:14. | :59:20. | |
Finally, a mouse. Yes, Pauline Latham's offers in the Commons has | :59:21. | :59:28. | |
been invested `` infested by mice. Where their traps in the question? | :59:29. | :59:39. | |
Really? Where are all these most coming from and what are you doing | :59:40. | :59:43. | |
about it? I do not know where they have come from. After Christmas we | :59:44. | :59:50. | |
saw three on the desk. The whole lot was covered... Did you leave | :59:51. | :59:58. | |
inspired out? No. I did not want to touch anything. `` a mince pie. I | :59:59. | :00:13. | |
have seen a lot of mice in the House of Commons but when I want to see a | :00:14. | :00:18. | |
rat, I have to go into the chamber. I knew you would say something like | :00:19. | :00:20. | |
that. houses being built by the mayor. | :00:21. | :00:31. | |
Andrew, back to you. Welcome back. Now she made quite a splash last | :00:32. | :00:37. | |
night. I am talking, of course, of the Portsmouth North MP, Penny | :00:38. | :00:41. | |
Mordaunt. If you missed her first appearance in ITV's celebrity diving | :00:42. | :00:44. | |
competition show, here she is in action. | :00:45. | :00:59. | |
APPLAUSE Here is a lady who is more used to | :01:00. | :01:16. | |
campaigning for votes than diving for them. She created far too much | :01:17. | :01:22. | |
rotation. Hard work has gone into the start of this dive to try and | :01:23. | :01:34. | |
control it. That looked painful Now the Portsmouth North MP got voted | :01:35. | :01:37. | |
off the show last night but what about the verdict that really | :01:38. | :01:40. | |
matters? The newly appointed Minister for Portsmouth, Michael | :01:41. | :01:42. | |
Fallon, is here. Welcome to the programme. I would give her ten out | :01:43. | :01:49. | |
of ten for bravery. I was cheering her on. She was doing this for a | :01:50. | :01:53. | |
local charity, raising money for the local swimming pool. She was a good | :01:54. | :02:01. | |
sport. As Minister for Portsmouth, can we expect to see you in your | :02:02. | :02:04. | |
swimming trunks for the next series? I do not think I have the | :02:05. | :02:09. | |
spare time at the moment. But there is a big challenge in Portsmouth. | :02:10. | :02:14. | |
Penny Mordaunt and the other local MPs there have been remorseless in | :02:15. | :02:20. | |
asking ministers to help the city. They are losing jobs. There is a | :02:21. | :02:27. | |
goblin Trinity -- there is a big opportunity to create jobs. Should | :02:28. | :02:33. | |
she have been on a celebrity television show of their role these | :02:34. | :02:37. | |
problems in Portsmouth? This was in her spare time and it is raising | :02:38. | :02:43. | |
money for a good cause. I do not think we should eat two sniffy about | :02:44. | :02:50. | |
it. Did I not see you dressed up on Thursday night, doing your | :02:51. | :02:56. | |
programme? This is my job. This is not her job. It was in her spare | :02:57. | :03:04. | |
time, she was raising money for a local charity. Your Minister for | :03:05. | :03:11. | |
Portsmouth. Are we going to have a minister for every town? Are we | :03:12. | :03:15. | |
going to have a minister for Chipping Sodbury? Chipping Sodbury | :03:16. | :03:18. | |
does not have the issues that Portsmouth have -- that Portsmouth | :03:19. | :03:26. | |
has. There are jobs at risk in shipbuilding. The government puts in | :03:27. | :03:31. | |
a lot of money through the regional growth fund, some ?20 million. There | :03:32. | :03:36. | |
are range of government funding streams going into Portsmouth. My | :03:37. | :03:41. | |
job is to make sure that is properly coordinated. I need to make sure | :03:42. | :03:46. | |
that Portsmouth seizes this opportunity to develop a more | :03:47. | :03:49. | |
broadly -based marine and maritime economy. To make sure a marginal | :03:50. | :03:53. | |
seat stays Tory at the next election? There are marginal seats | :03:54. | :03:59. | |
everywhere. There is a Liberal Democrat marginal the -- seat. Vince | :04:00. | :04:09. | |
Cable and I have been working together for the issues that | :04:10. | :04:12. | |
Portsmouth is facing. We work on these things together. But I have | :04:13. | :04:18. | |
the very specific job of making sure that the effort on the ground is | :04:19. | :04:22. | |
coordinated. So Vince Cable is not the Minister for Portsmouth? I have | :04:23. | :04:27. | |
been there recently, so has Vince Cable. So there are two ministers | :04:28. | :04:34. | |
for Portsmouth? Just a minute. I am making sure that the effort is | :04:35. | :04:39. | |
properly coordinated on the ground. I am determined to turn this | :04:40. | :04:42. | |
challenging time into a proper opportunity. Should we be to Paul | :04:43. | :04:49. | |
faced about this? No, good honour. How much money would be have to pay | :04:50. | :04:54. | |
you to get into a swimming costume? Bid is not enough money in the BBC | :04:55. | :05:00. | |
covers. Good on her. It took seven years to get a leg there's an MP. | :05:01. | :05:06. | |
She should be a minister. It is a pity she has the spare time to do | :05:07. | :05:11. | |
this. She is very talented. It is interesting about the Minister for | :05:12. | :05:16. | |
Portsmouth, up in the north-east they must be sad that they do not | :05:17. | :05:22. | |
have any marginal seats. Nick Brown as David Cameron last July, can we | :05:23. | :05:26. | |
have a minister for the north-east, and the Prime Minister is said no? | :05:27. | :05:31. | |
Does this mean that Portsmouth is more deprived economic late than the | :05:32. | :05:39. | |
north-east? No, it means it is a marginal seat. | :05:40. | :05:41. | |
The Labour Leader Ed Miliband was on the Andrew Marr programme this | :05:42. | :05:44. | |
morning and he outlined plans under a Labour government for an annual | :05:45. | :05:47. | |
competition audit. Here is what he had to say. The next Labour | :05:48. | :05:49. | |
government will have an annual competition at it, not just done by | :05:50. | :05:53. | |
the regulatory body. Alongside them will be the citizens advice bureau, | :05:54. | :05:58. | |
setting the agenda for the future, setting the agenda for how we can | :05:59. | :06:01. | |
ensure that competition will benefit consumers and businesses. I want to | :06:02. | :06:07. | |
see Labour going into the next election as the party of | :06:08. | :06:09. | |
competition, the party of the consumer, the party of hard-pressed | :06:10. | :06:15. | |
working families who are struggling. They need somebody to deal with | :06:16. | :06:18. | |
those issues and that is what the next Labour government will do. I | :06:19. | :06:23. | |
thought you were meant to be the party of competition? We are the | :06:24. | :06:29. | |
party of competition. This is the party that has given us some of | :06:30. | :06:34. | |
these problems. We have an annual competition review in the energy | :06:35. | :06:36. | |
sector. We have already tackling banking. What is interesting about | :06:37. | :06:43. | |
his proposal is it is the smaller ones who are less sure about this, | :06:44. | :06:46. | |
the smaller banks who think that this could inhibit the growth. It is | :06:47. | :06:51. | |
the smaller energy companies who think that through interfering with | :06:52. | :06:54. | |
the market, through his price freeze, that he will hinder | :06:55. | :07:00. | |
competition. We spoke about this before. It is a clever pitch that Ed | :07:01. | :07:07. | |
Miliband is making. Under the guise of token markets and claiming to be | :07:08. | :07:12. | |
the party of competition, he is creating the reason for state | :07:13. | :07:18. | |
intervention? -- broken markets Exactly, and it is state | :07:19. | :07:22. | |
intervention that does not work There is a proud tradition in | :07:23. | :07:29. | |
government of smashing open cartels. Teddy Roosevelt did it nearly a | :07:30. | :07:34. | |
century ago. The problem is, in those situations it was clear and | :07:35. | :07:37. | |
obvious that the consumers were suffering. I am not sure it is | :07:38. | :07:44. | |
entirely obvious in this country. In the banking sector we have free | :07:45. | :07:48. | |
current accounts in the high street. That is not true in all Western | :07:49. | :07:53. | |
countries. In the energy sector our bills are not outlandish they high. | :07:54. | :07:56. | |
It is when we take taxes into account the become unaffordable He | :07:57. | :08:03. | |
has to make the case that consumers are suffering as a result of these | :08:04. | :08:08. | |
monopolies. Ed Miliband would say it is not about state intervention but | :08:09. | :08:13. | |
about making markets work. The piece that was written by his intellectual | :08:14. | :08:17. | |
Duryea about the significance and the importance of Teddy Roosevelt. | :08:18. | :08:21. | |
He was the Republican president in the yearly -- in the early years of | :08:22. | :08:27. | |
the last century. He wanted markets to work. There is an interesting | :08:28. | :08:35. | |
debate on Twitter this morning. Tim Montgomerie is saying, why are we, | :08:36. | :08:40. | |
the Conservative Party, not seen as the party of Teddy Roosevelt? We are | :08:41. | :08:50. | |
seen as the party of business. There are smaller energy companies | :08:51. | :08:54. | |
competing against the big six. In banking, we have seen smaller | :08:55. | :08:59. | |
companies coming. It was the Labour government that created the big six | :09:00. | :09:04. | |
energy companies. I think Teddy Roosevelt also invaded Cuba and the | :09:05. | :09:09. | |
Philippines. That could give us a clue as to Ed Miliband's foreign | :09:10. | :09:14. | |
policy. Nigel Farage has promised to purge the party of its more extreme | :09:15. | :09:18. | |
candidates ahead of the European Council elections in May. But that | :09:19. | :09:23. | |
may not be going so well. Listen to this. The latest in this process is | :09:24. | :09:32. | |
these homosexual laws. And Thomas I shall manage. I believe that the | :09:33. | :09:39. | |
Prime Minister, who was warned that disasters would follow a three went | :09:40. | :09:45. | |
in this direction, he has persisted, and I believe that this is largely a | :09:46. | :09:50. | |
repercussion from this godlessness that he has persisted in. The | :09:51. | :09:56. | |
instructions I have got from now on, or is just not to answer in, and not | :09:57. | :10:01. | |
to give interviews such as this one. So you are ignoring them? I am not | :10:02. | :10:07. | |
ignoring them. But you are talking to me? You are the last one I shall | :10:08. | :10:12. | |
be speaking to. I think it is too late. Who would have thought it It | :10:13. | :10:18. | |
is not global warming that is causing the floods, it is gay | :10:19. | :10:24. | |
marriage? That explains it. Last year David Cameron offered a coded | :10:25. | :10:28. | |
retraction of his statement that UKIP is full of fruit cakes. I think | :10:29. | :10:32. | |
he will be tempted to retract the retraction. It is a warning to lots | :10:33. | :10:38. | |
of Tories who think that their best interests are served by flirting | :10:39. | :10:45. | |
with lace -- with UKIP. Nigel Farage is a very plausible guy, but several | :10:46. | :10:49. | |
layers down, there are people who are very different. Nigel Farage is | :10:50. | :10:55. | |
saying that he's going to clear the party out of what Mr Cameron called | :10:56. | :11:00. | |
the fruitcakes. If he is true to his word, Mr Sylvester's days in the | :11:01. | :11:05. | |
party should they numbered. If Nigel Farage falls under the bus, what is | :11:06. | :11:15. | |
left of place -- what is left of UKIP? People say that they like UKIP | :11:16. | :11:20. | |
because unlike other politicians, they speak their mind. But as it | :11:21. | :11:26. | |
turns into more of a proper organisation, people speaking their | :11:27. | :11:32. | |
mind will be less acceptable. The European elections are always a | :11:33. | :11:36. | |
protest vote. People are not happy with the elite. You will get people | :11:37. | :11:40. | |
saying utterly ridiculous things like that man in Henley-on-Thames. | :11:41. | :11:46. | |
But this is a chance to vote against the entire political establishment. | :11:47. | :11:49. | |
I am not sure that comments like that will make much of a difference. | :11:50. | :11:58. | |
There are lots of arguments about climate change. That was certainly a | :11:59. | :12:03. | |
new one! They are the only big protest party at the moment. Protest | :12:04. | :12:07. | |
party is obviously hoovered up lots of votes. We have got to be clear in | :12:08. | :12:13. | |
European message that we are the only party that can reform Europe | :12:14. | :12:17. | |
and give people a proper choice the first referendum in over 40 years. | :12:18. | :12:23. | |
Mr Sylvester used to be a conservative. You're probably glad | :12:24. | :12:27. | |
to see the back of him? David Cameron is right, there are probably | :12:28. | :12:33. | |
a few fruitcakes around there. I think that mainstream conservatives | :12:34. | :12:36. | |
will understand that this is the only party that can secure European | :12:37. | :12:42. | |
reform and give people the choice they have been arguing for. Whatever | :12:43. | :12:46. | |
happens in the European elections, it is a protest vote. We have almost | :12:47. | :12:52. | |
run out of time. We will see this week of Chris Rennard gets the party | :12:53. | :12:55. | |
whip act. There is a battle brewing between Danny Alexander and the | :12:56. | :13:01. | |
common side of the Liberal Democrats and the House of Lords. If he turns | :13:02. | :13:06. | |
up on Monday and asks to be let in, I they going to make a big scene at | :13:07. | :13:14. | |
the gate of Parliament? And the issue will stay in the papers? Yes, | :13:15. | :13:20. | |
they are clearly nervous that Lord Rennard might be tempted to mount a | :13:21. | :13:28. | |
legal bid. That is all for today. Thanks to all my guests. The Daily | :13:29. | :13:32. | |
Politics is back on Monday at midday on BBC Two. And I will be here again | :13:33. | :13:37. | |
next week. Remember if it is Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics. | :13:38. | :13:39. |