Browse content similar to 06/07/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Up to a million public sector workers will strike this week. | :00:35. | :00:41. | |
It's one of the biggest walk-outs since 201 . | :00:42. | :00:43. | |
The country's top trade unionist Frances O'Grady and | :00:44. | :00:46. | |
Tory Business Minister Matt Hancock go head-to-head. | :00:47. | :00:51. | |
The Tour de France seems to have cheered him up - just as well | :00:52. | :00:55. | |
for the Deputy Prime Minister hasn't got much else to smile about. | :00:56. | :00:58. | |
Nick Clegg joins me live from Sheffield to discuss the | :00:59. | :01:01. | |
Just over ten weeks until Scotland determines its future. | :01:02. | :01:07. | |
The man leading the campaign AGAINST independence, Alistair Darling, | :01:08. | :01:11. | |
joins me from Edinburgh. In the East Midlands: | :01:12. | :01:15. | |
The plans to give more power to Nottingham, Derby and Leicester | :01:16. | :01:31. | |
And with me throughout the show three top-flight political | :01:32. | :01:34. | |
journalists always ahead of the peleton - Nick Watt, | :01:35. | :01:37. | |
They'll be tweeting faster than Tour de France cyclists can pedal. | :01:38. | :01:52. | |
The news is dominated this morning by stories swirling | :01:53. | :01:54. | |
around allegations of an historic Westminster paedophile ring. | :01:55. | :01:57. | |
Concern has grown because of the disappearance of a dossier | :01:58. | :02:00. | |
handed over to the Home Office in 1983, along with over 100 official | :02:01. | :02:02. | |
files related to it and possibly containing details of historic child | :02:03. | :02:04. | |
Labour is calling for a public inquiry led by a child protection | :02:05. | :02:10. | |
But speaking earlier on The Andrew Marr Show this morning | :02:11. | :02:15. | |
the Education Secretary Michael Gove ruled that out. | :02:16. | :02:20. | |
The most important thing that we need to do is ensure that the due | :02:21. | :02:26. | |
process of law pursues those who may be guilty of individual crimes and | :02:27. | :02:30. | |
we also learn lessons about what may or may not have gone wrong in the | :02:31. | :02:34. | |
past, but it is also important to emphasise that many of the | :02:35. | :02:37. | |
allegations that are being made are historic. And what we do now in | :02:38. | :02:42. | |
order to keep children safer is better and stronger than was the | :02:43. | :02:46. | |
case when 20 or 30 years ago. Without getting into a boring | :02:47. | :02:50. | |
tit-for-tat, public inquiry, "yes" or "no"? No. Helen, can the | :02:51. | :02:55. | |
Government go on resisting calls for a full-scale inquiry? It is very | :02:56. | :02:59. | |
hard. There are cynical and non-cynical reasons for calling for | :03:00. | :03:03. | |
an inquiry. The cynical one allows you to say I can't comment on this. | :03:04. | :03:07. | |
The non-cynical is it manages to get people to air allegations in a way | :03:08. | :03:12. | |
that is safe. What we saw at the Leveson Inquiry was helpful, people | :03:13. | :03:16. | |
who felt they had been shut out from justice getting a chance to tell | :03:17. | :03:20. | |
their side of the story. A public inquiry in this case is a good idea. | :03:21. | :03:23. | |
Labour have called for a lot of public inquiries. A list was made in | :03:24. | :03:28. | |
2012 of how many they called for. Not only Savile, but the West Coast | :03:29. | :03:34. | |
Main Line and breast implants. On this particular issue, the people | :03:35. | :03:37. | |
don't trust the politicians, they don't trust the police either | :03:38. | :03:40. | |
because they may have been complicit in a cover-up. They may not trust | :03:41. | :03:45. | |
the Home Office who we are told some of their officials were mentioned in | :03:46. | :03:50. | |
the dossier? That is what David Cameron is hanging on to. This is a | :03:51. | :03:54. | |
matter now because they are alleged criminal activity, it is for the | :03:55. | :03:57. | |
police to investigate. In that big piece in the Sunday Times, Tim | :03:58. | :04:03. | |
Shipman reports one of the people making the allegations lives in the | :04:04. | :04:04. | |
United States making the allegations lives in the | :04:05. | :04:07. | |
been out to the United States to interview him. The Prime Minister | :04:08. | :04:09. | |
would say that is how serious the police are taking it. The problem | :04:10. | :04:10. | |
for the Prime Minister - he police are taking it. The problem | :04:11. | :04:17. | |
allergic to big public inquiry. His finest moment was his response to | :04:18. | :04:21. | |
the Bloody Sunday inquiry shortly after he became Prime | :04:22. | :04:21. | |
inrequest -- that inquiry took 2 years to report. The problem is the | :04:22. | :04:35. | |
dossier has gone missing, the files have gone missing, more allegations | :04:36. | :04:41. | |
keep coming out either directly or indirectly. It doesn't look like it | :04:42. | :04:43. | |
is going to go away? The fact the dossiers are missing means it is | :04:44. | :04:51. | |
inappropriate for the Home Office to be investigating this. There is | :04:52. | :04:55. | |
inappropriate for the Home Office to a police investigation. If after | :04:56. | :04:55. | |
that, there are questions unanswered which can only be answered by | :04:56. | :05:02. | |
that, there are questions unanswered public inquiry, or which require | :05:03. | :05:03. | |
resources that can only be commanded by a public inquiry, I could see the | :05:04. | :05:06. | |
case for going down that road. I fear that sometimes in this country | :05:07. | :05:12. | |
we invest almost supernatural powers in what a public inquiry can do I | :05:13. | :05:16. | |
wonder whether there is another example of a country that goes | :05:17. | :05:20. | |
through this stale ritual every few years of a scandal emerging, the | :05:21. | :05:24. | |
opposition calling for an inquiry, the Government saying no and then | :05:25. | :05:27. | |
holding the line or giving in. I don't know what we think this | :05:28. | :05:31. | |
inquiries can do. It comes back to your point, Helen, you should be | :05:32. | :05:36. | |
careful what you call an inquiry on so it doesn't devalue the concept. | :05:37. | :05:42. | |
On Thursday up to a million public sector workers - including teachers, | :05:43. | :05:44. | |
firemen and council workers - will go on strike. | :05:45. | :05:46. | |
Their unions have differing gripes but the fact they're all striking | :05:47. | :05:48. | |
on the same day is designed to send a strong message to the government. | :05:49. | :05:51. | |
As the economy picks up again they're demanding an end | :05:52. | :05:53. | |
Growth has returned strongly to the UK economy | :05:54. | :05:59. | |
and unemployment is at its lowest level for more than five years. | :06:00. | :06:02. | |
So why is there still talk of austerity | :06:03. | :06:05. | |
The deficit is coming down but much more slowly than the government | :06:06. | :06:10. | |
And accumulated deficits - the national debt - | :06:11. | :06:17. | |
The UK is now in hock to the tune of ?1.3 trillion - and rising. | :06:18. | :06:26. | |
In fact, we're only 40% of the way through George Osborne's planned | :06:27. | :06:29. | |
austerity, with the chancellor now saying he won't manage to balance | :06:30. | :06:32. | |
Unions are now rebelling against tight pay controls. | :06:33. | :06:38. | |
Since 2010, average public sector pay, which goes to about 1 in 5 | :06:39. | :06:42. | |
Over the same period, prices increased by 16% - | :06:43. | :06:50. | |
meaning the average public sector worker saw their pay squeezed | :06:51. | :06:53. | |
Going head-to-head on the public sector strikes and austerity - | :06:54. | :07:01. | |
the general secretary of the TUC Frances O'Grady, and Conservative | :07:02. | :07:04. | |
We have seen it, public sector pay squeezed by 9% under the Coalition | :07:05. | :07:23. | |
Government. Isn't it time to take your foot off the brake a bit? I | :07:24. | :07:29. | |
don't think it is the right time to let go of the public finances at | :07:30. | :07:34. | |
all. We were always clear that this is what's called a structural | :07:35. | :07:38. | |
deficit, it doesn't go away just because the growth is returning and | :07:39. | :07:43. | |
the economy is coming back. We have protected and are protecting the | :07:44. | :07:47. | |
lowest paid public sector workers who weren't part of the pay freeze | :07:48. | :07:54. | |
and now pay going up by 1%. These are difficult decisions. We have had | :07:55. | :07:59. | |
that discussion many times. They are necessary in order to keep that plan | :08:00. | :08:04. | |
on track and as we can see in the wider economy, it is working. | :08:05. | :08:07. | |
People's living standards will have to continue to fall if you are in | :08:08. | :08:12. | |
the public sector? We need to keep public spending under control and | :08:13. | :08:16. | |
pay restraint is one of the main ways of being able... The answer is | :08:17. | :08:20. | |
yes? The answer is this is necessary. The answer is yes, this | :08:21. | :08:23. | |
is necessary. It isn't because we want to. We have to. This strike | :08:24. | :08:26. | |
isn't going to change the Government's mind, is it? It does | :08:27. | :08:29. | |
seem like the Government isn't listening. We have had years... They | :08:30. | :08:32. | |
are listening, they just don't agree. Ordinary people, including | :08:33. | :08:36. | |
those in the public sector, are finding it really tough. What really | :08:37. | :08:41. | |
sticks in the throat is the idea that money can be found to give tax | :08:42. | :08:45. | |
cuts to billionaires, to millionaires and to big | :08:46. | :08:51. | |
corporations. But it can't be found to help 500,000 workers in local | :08:52. | :08:57. | |
government, dinner ladies, school meal workers, lollipop men and women | :08:58. | :09:00. | |
who are earning less than the living wage. What do you say to that? We | :09:01. | :09:04. | |
have protected those who are the least well-paid in the public | :09:05. | :09:08. | |
sector. But this is about a long-term... How can you? Hold on. | :09:09. | :09:12. | |
You have said you have protected them. This involves ordinary people, | :09:13. | :09:16. | |
many watching this programme, they have had a 1% pay rise in some cases | :09:17. | :09:24. | |
since 2010. The average gas bill is up 57%, electric bill up 22%, food | :09:25. | :09:29. | |
costs up 16%, running a car 11% in what way have you protected people | :09:30. | :09:35. | |
from spending they have to make Firstly, you read out the average | :09:36. | :09:40. | |
increases in public sector pay. That has had the biggest impact at the | :09:41. | :09:44. | |
top end and those at the bottom end have been best protected, as best we | :09:45. | :09:49. | |
could. Of course, we have also taken two million people out of income tax | :09:50. | :09:53. | |
and increased the income tax threshold which has a big positive | :09:54. | :09:57. | |
impact. We have frozen and then cut fuel duty, which would have been 20 | :09:58. | :10:01. | |
pence higher. I wanted to take on this point about priorities. We have | :10:02. | :10:05. | |
got to make sure that we get the economy going at the same time and | :10:06. | :10:10. | |
we raised more money from those at the top than we did before 2010 | :10:11. | :10:15. | |
partly because we have encouraged them to invest. And this is a really | :10:16. | :10:20. | |
important balance of making sure we get the books back in order, we have | :10:21. | :10:25. | |
stability for family finances and we get the economy going. Why not | :10:26. | :10:29. | |
spread the living wage? We know you could pay for that pay increase | :10:30. | :10:33. | |
itself if you spread the living wage through the private sector and | :10:34. | :10:37. | |
guarantee... The living wage being above the minimum wage? Absolutely. | :10:38. | :10:43. | |
?7.65 in the rest of the country, ?8.80 in London. What is the answer? | :10:44. | :10:52. | |
I'm a fan of the minimum wage. But not for public sector workers. Being | :10:53. | :10:59. | |
able to pay low-paid workers as much as possible within the constraints | :11:00. | :11:02. | |
of the public finances is something I have pushed very hard. The | :11:03. | :11:05. | |
evidence we can increase the minimum wage has to be balanced which the | :11:06. | :11:10. | |
Low Pay Commission do with the impact on the number of jobs... Even | :11:11. | :11:18. | |
after a pay freeze for quite a while among public sector workers, they | :11:19. | :11:23. | |
are still paid 15% on average more than those in the private sector? | :11:24. | :11:32. | |
That is not true. It is, according to the ONS figures. I read that | :11:33. | :11:36. | |
report this morning. If you look at the whole package, what they are | :11:37. | :11:40. | |
saying is public service workers are worse off. Average earnings in the | :11:41. | :11:49. | |
public sector are ?16.28 an hour compared to ?14.16 private. You are | :11:50. | :11:55. | |
comparing apples and pears. It's the kind of jobs and the size of the | :11:56. | :11:58. | |
workplace that people work in. They are still overall on average better | :11:59. | :12:03. | |
off? Lower paid workers tend to be better off because unions negotiate | :12:04. | :12:09. | |
better deals for lower paid workers. They are more unionised in the pry | :12:10. | :12:17. | |
private sector. The public sector is worse off. This is a political | :12:18. | :12:22. | |
strike, isn't it? There is a whole disparate range of reasons. The | :12:23. | :12:24. | |
strike is saying that you are against this Government, that is | :12:25. | :12:29. | |
what this is about? I this I what firefighters, local government | :12:30. | :12:33. | |
workers and health workers who are protesting, too, alongside teachers | :12:34. | :12:37. | |
are saying is that this Government is not listening, it is out of | :12:38. | :12:41. | |
touch, people can't carry on having cuts in their living standards | :12:42. | :12:45. | |
depending on benefits. When will the public sector worker ever get a real | :12:46. | :12:50. | |
increase in their pay under a Conservative Government? Well, we | :12:51. | :12:56. | |
certainly hope to have the books balanced by 2018. Not before then? | :12:57. | :13:00. | |
2018 is when we hope to be able to be in surplus. It is testament. . | :13:01. | :13:06. | |
So, no real pay increase for public sector workers before 2018? | :13:07. | :13:15. | |
Interestingly, this isn't just about the Conservatives and the Lib Dems, | :13:16. | :13:19. | |
the Labour Party leadership have said it is a test of their | :13:20. | :13:23. | |
credibility that they support the squeeze on public sector pay. I look | :13:24. | :13:26. | |
forward to them, they ought to come out and say very clearly that these | :13:27. | :13:29. | |
strikes are wrong and they are against the strikes and stop taking | :13:30. | :13:33. | |
union money. It is a democratic right. Hold on. They are - they | :13:34. | :13:38. | |
think the policy of pay restraint is necessary. Alright. On this point | :13:39. | :13:46. | |
about democracy... Ask yourself why so many ordinary decent public | :13:47. | :13:52. | |
service workers are so fed up. They have seen so many billions of pounds | :13:53. | :13:59. | |
wasted through outsourcing to organisations like G4 S. In Unite | :14:00. | :14:09. | |
and UNISON the turnout in this vote was under 20%. Alright. OK. One | :14:10. | :14:16. | |
final question... Hold on. You said millions and millions voted on | :14:17. | :14:19. | |
this... I want to ask you this question. Is the story in the Mail | :14:20. | :14:24. | |
on Sunday today that Mr Cameron s planning a big crackdown on the | :14:25. | :14:29. | |
unions over balloting, is that true? Well, strikes like this... I know | :14:30. | :14:35. | |
the cases, is it true you are going to dhang the law? Strikes like this | :14:36. | :14:38. | |
make that argument stronger. The Conservative Party is in Government | :14:39. | :14:43. | |
on the basis of 23% of the electorate... We have run out of | :14:44. | :14:45. | |
time. Thank you very much. "Should Scotland be | :14:46. | :14:49. | |
an independent country?" That's the question the people of | :14:50. | :14:52. | |
Scotland will answer in a referendum If the polls are to be believed | :14:53. | :14:53. | |
the voters will answer "no". But in 2011 - ten weeks before | :14:54. | :14:57. | |
the Holyrood elections - the polls told us that Labour was going to win | :14:58. | :14:59. | |
and look what happened there - a Alistair Darling is leading | :15:00. | :15:02. | |
the campaign against independnence. is one that puts the matter of | :15:03. | :15:24. | |
independence to bed for a generation. In numerical terms, what | :15:25. | :15:31. | |
would that be? We need a decisive result in September, I think we will | :15:32. | :15:35. | |
get that provided we get our arguments across in the next couple | :15:36. | :15:40. | |
of months. What would it be in figures? I am not going to put a | :15:41. | :15:45. | |
number on it. People will look at it and say, OK, you have had two and a | :15:46. | :15:51. | |
half years of debate and Scotland has now decided. The polls may be | :15:52. | :15:57. | |
encouraging at the moment but I am not complacent, there is still a | :15:58. | :16:01. | |
long way to go. Speculating... If you don't want to answer that, that | :16:02. | :16:07. | |
is fair enough. Your side claims that a vote for independence is a | :16:08. | :16:12. | |
vote for massive uncertainty but if it is a no vote there is lots of | :16:13. | :16:17. | |
uncertainty too. All of the Westminster parties are promising | :16:18. | :16:21. | |
devolution but there is no timetable, no certainty. Yes, there | :16:22. | :16:28. | |
is. For the first time I can remember, all three parties are more | :16:29. | :16:34. | |
or less on the same page in terms of additional powers, we already have | :16:35. | :16:40. | |
powers in terms of policing and transport, now more powers are | :16:41. | :16:45. | |
planned in relation to tax and welfare. But you are all saying | :16:46. | :16:52. | |
different things. Between 2009 and 2012, the three parties have | :16:53. | :16:56. | |
slightly different proposals but they came together and there was an | :16:57. | :17:01. | |
agreed series of reforms in relation to tax which are now on the statute | :17:02. | :17:08. | |
book. If you go back to the devolutionary settlement in 199 , | :17:09. | :17:13. | |
people unified around a single proposition so there is history here | :17:14. | :17:18. | |
and these three parties have delivered and they will deliver in | :17:19. | :17:21. | |
the event of people saying we will stay part of the UK. If Scotland | :17:22. | :17:28. | |
vote no to independence, when will Scotland get these extra powers I | :17:29. | :17:32. | |
would imagine that in the general election all three parties will have | :17:33. | :17:36. | |
something in their manifesto and you would expect to see legislation in | :17:37. | :17:41. | |
the session of Parliament that follows that. Imagining is not | :17:42. | :17:45. | |
certainty. Because the three parties have said this is what they will do, | :17:46. | :17:51. | |
and it is important having said that they stick to it. If you look in the | :17:52. | :17:56. | |
past when the Nationalists said the same thing, when they cast doubt | :17:57. | :18:02. | |
over what would happen in 2012, we delivered. The only party that | :18:03. | :18:07. | |
walked out of both of these discussions were the Nationalists | :18:08. | :18:10. | |
because they are not interested in more powers, they want a complete | :18:11. | :18:15. | |
break. You cannot say that if Edinburgh gets more devolution that | :18:16. | :18:20. | |
wouldn't mean fewer Scottish MPs in Westminster, can you? Nobody has any | :18:21. | :18:27. | |
plans to reduce the number of MPs. If you step back from this moment, | :18:28. | :18:33. | |
what people have been asked to do in September is to vote on the future | :18:34. | :18:37. | |
of their country, Scotland, and whether we should be part of the UK. | :18:38. | :18:42. | |
When I say part of the UK, full members of the UK with | :18:43. | :18:46. | |
representation in the House of Commons and the institutions that | :18:47. | :18:50. | |
affect our lives. This is a critically important vote. We want | :18:51. | :18:57. | |
to see more decentralisation of power to Scotland, and to local | :18:58. | :19:01. | |
authorities within Scotland, but we don't want a complete break with the | :19:02. | :19:06. | |
uncertainties, the risks and the downright disadvantages that would | :19:07. | :19:11. | |
throw Scotland's away if we were to make that break. The economic | :19:12. | :19:20. | |
arguments are dominating people s thinking, the polls show, that is | :19:21. | :19:38. | |
what is dominating at the moment. You cannot guarantee continued | :19:39. | :19:42. | |
membership of the European Union given all the talk now about an | :19:43. | :19:49. | |
in-out UK referendum. Firstly I don't think anyone has ever argued | :19:50. | :19:54. | |
Scotland wouldn't get back in. The big question is the terms and | :19:55. | :19:58. | |
conditions we would have to meet and we are applying to get into | :19:59. | :20:02. | |
something that is established, it wouldn't be a negotiation. What we | :20:03. | :20:08. | |
have said is there is no way Europe would let Scotland keep the rebate | :20:09. | :20:13. | |
which Scotland has, there would be big questions over whether we have | :20:14. | :20:20. | |
to join the euro, and other terms and conditions. The European Union | :20:21. | :20:24. | |
does not act with any great speed, on average it takes eight and a half | :20:25. | :20:30. | |
years to get into Europe. I don t want that uncertainty or the | :20:31. | :20:34. | |
disadvantages that would come Scotland's away that come with | :20:35. | :20:40. | |
losing clout in the European Union. The second point you asked me about | :20:41. | :20:47. | |
is in relation to the UK's membership of the European Union, | :20:48. | :20:51. | |
and if you look at polls, the majority of people still want to | :20:52. | :21:01. | |
stay in the UK. Frankly, a lot of people on my side didn't make the | :21:02. | :21:06. | |
argument against independence for a long time, we have been doing that | :21:07. | :21:12. | |
over the last two and a half years and we are making progress and that | :21:13. | :21:17. | |
is why I can say I think we will win provided we continue to get our | :21:18. | :21:20. | |
arguments across. Similarly with the European Union, the case needs to be | :21:21. | :21:25. | |
made because it is a powerful case. Isn't it true that the Nationalists | :21:26. | :21:32. | |
win either way? They win if it is a yes vote, and they win if it is a no | :21:33. | :21:41. | |
vote. They wanted devolution max so they win either way. There is a | :21:42. | :21:47. | |
world of difference between devolution and further devolution | :21:48. | :21:52. | |
where you remain part of the UK There is a world of difference | :21:53. | :21:57. | |
between that and making a break where Scotland becomes a foreign | :21:58. | :22:02. | |
country to the rest of the UK. You lose that security and those | :22:03. | :22:07. | |
opportunities. You lose the same currency, the opportunity with | :22:08. | :22:16. | |
pensions and so on. They are entitled to argue this case with | :22:17. | :22:21. | |
passion, they want a break, but the two things are worlds apart. Gordon | :22:22. | :22:27. | |
Brown said that the no campaign was too negative, have you adjusted to | :22:28. | :22:31. | |
take that criticism into account? Ever since I launched this campaign | :22:32. | :22:36. | |
over two years ago I said we would make a strong powerful case for | :22:37. | :22:42. | |
remaining part of the UK. Look at our research, where we have had | :22:43. | :22:48. | |
warnings from people to say that if we do well with research in Scotland | :22:49. | :22:52. | |
we get more than our population share of the grand and we gain from | :22:53. | :22:58. | |
that. There is a positive case but equally nobody will stop me from | :22:59. | :23:02. | |
saying to the Nationalists, look at the assertions you make which are | :23:03. | :23:06. | |
collapsing like skittles at the moment. Their assertions don't stand | :23:07. | :23:11. | |
up. They assert that somehow milk and honey will be flowing. It is | :23:12. | :23:17. | |
perfectly healthy within a referendum campaign to say that what | :23:18. | :23:22. | |
you are saying simply isn't true. You have been negative, we all know | :23:23. | :23:38. | |
about the so-called Cyber Nats book you compared Alex Salmond to the | :23:39. | :23:48. | |
leader of North Korea. On! The context was that Alex Salmond was | :23:49. | :23:53. | |
being asked why it was that UKIP had additional seat and he appeared to | :23:54. | :23:58. | |
blame television being been doing from another country, from BBC South | :23:59. | :24:05. | |
of the border. If you cannot have humour in a debate, heaven help us. | :24:06. | :24:13. | |
I think it is important in this debate that people from outside | :24:14. | :24:18. | |
politics should be allowed to have their say whatever side they are on | :24:19. | :24:23. | |
because that will make for a far better, healthier debate. Nobody | :24:24. | :24:28. | |
should be put in a state of fear and alarm by worrying about what will | :24:29. | :24:33. | |
happen if they stand up. Despite the nastiness, more and more people are | :24:34. | :24:38. | |
making a stand. We have run out of time. Thank you. | :24:39. | :24:46. | |
I will be talking to the SNP's hippity leader, Nicola Sturgeon | :24:47. | :24:53. | |
next week on Sunday Politics. Scotland: For Richer or Poorer will | :24:54. | :24:58. | |
be on BBC Two at 9pm tomorrow. Disastrous results in the European | :24:59. | :25:03. | |
elections, it is fair to say the Lib Dems are down in the doldrums. In a | :25:04. | :25:08. | |
moment I will be speaking to Nick Clegg, but first Emily has been | :25:09. | :25:18. | |
asking what Lib Dems would say to the Prime -- Deputy Prime Minister | :25:19. | :25:32. | |
on Call Clegg. Our phone in this week is the challenges facing the | :25:33. | :25:36. | |
Liberal Democrats. They are rock bottom in the polls and have dire | :25:37. | :25:41. | |
results in the local and European elections so what can the party do | :25:42. | :25:46. | |
to turn things around? Get in touch, we are going straight to line | :25:47. | :25:51. | |
one and Gareth. How much is a problem of that loss of local | :25:52. | :25:56. | |
support? It is a massive problem because those are the building | :25:57. | :26:00. | |
blocks of our success. The councillors who gets the case work | :26:01. | :26:06. | |
done are also the people who go out and deliver the leaflets and knock | :26:07. | :26:12. | |
on doors. Interesting, and it is not just local support the party has | :26:13. | :26:17. | |
lost, is it? In the next general election there are some big-name | :26:18. | :26:22. | |
Liberal Democrat MPs standing down like Malcolm Bruce and Ming | :26:23. | :26:31. | |
Campbell, how much of a problem will that be? That is a real challenge | :26:32. | :26:37. | |
and we have some of our brightest and best reaching an age of maturity | :26:38. | :26:42. | |
at the same moment so that is quite an additional test in what will be a | :26:43. | :26:47. | |
difficult election anyway. So how does the party need to position | :26:48. | :26:52. | |
itself to win back support? Let s go to Chris online free, has the party | :26:53. | :26:58. | |
got its strategy right? There is always a danger of appearing to be a | :26:59. | :27:07. | |
party that merely dilutes Labour or dilutes the Conservatives. We have a | :27:08. | :27:10. | |
of is serious, positive messages and we need to get those across in the | :27:11. | :27:14. | |
next election because if we don t people will vote for the Tories | :27:15. | :27:20. | |
Nick, what do you think of the party's message at the moment? I | :27:21. | :27:26. | |
have had a look at early draft of our manifesto and there is some good | :27:27. | :27:31. | |
stuff in there but the authors are probably too interested in what may | :27:32. | :27:36. | |
think we have achieved in the last five years and not really focusing | :27:37. | :27:41. | |
on what the voters will want to be hearing about the next five years. | :27:42. | :28:10. | |
Perhaps they should get out more and test some of these messages on the | :28:11. | :28:13. | |
doorstep. So you want to see the top ranks of the party on the doorstep. | :28:14. | :28:17. | |
Gareth online one also wants to make a point about the manifesto. There | :28:18. | :28:21. | |
is clearly a problem somewhere near the top and there are some people | :28:22. | :28:26. | |
who seem to be obsessed with power for power's sake, and happy with a | :28:27. | :28:30. | |
timid offer but the Liberal Democrats want to change things We | :28:31. | :28:35. | |
are running out of time so let's try to squeeze one more call in. What | :28:36. | :28:40. | |
are your thoughts on the long-term future of the party? I think serious | :28:41. | :28:44. | |
long-term danger is that the party could be relegated to the fringes of | :28:45. | :28:50. | |
the UK and no longer being a national party. We have gone back | :28:51. | :28:53. | |
decades if that happens because for many years we have been represented | :28:54. | :28:57. | |
in every part of the country at some level and we have got to rescue | :28:58. | :29:00. | |
ourselves from that. Some interesting views but we are going | :29:01. | :29:04. | |
to have to wait until the general election next year to find out how | :29:05. | :29:09. | |
well the Lib Dems face up to these challenges. Thanks for listening, we | :29:10. | :29:13. | |
are going to finish with an old classic now. | :29:14. | :29:16. | |
# I'm sorry, I'm sorry... #. Nick Clegg, welcome to the | :29:17. | :29:18. | |
programme. I want to come onto your situation in a minute but as you | :29:19. | :29:23. | |
will have seen in the papers, there is mounting concern over and | :29:24. | :29:25. | |
historic Westminster paedophile ring, and files relating to it | :29:26. | :29:27. | |
mysteriously disappearing. Why are you against a full public enquiry | :29:28. | :29:31. | |
into this? I wouldn't rule anything out. I think we should do anything | :29:32. | :29:41. | |
it takes to uncover this and achieve justice. | :29:42. | :29:56. | |
delivered, even all these many years later. How do you do it? There is an | :29:57. | :30:01. | |
inquiry in the Home Office about what's happened to these documents, | :30:02. | :30:05. | |
serious questions need to be asked about what happened in the Home | :30:06. | :30:09. | |
Office and those questions need to be answered. There are inquiries in | :30:10. | :30:13. | |
the BBC, in the NHS and most importantly of all the police are | :30:14. | :30:17. | |
looking into the places where this abuse was alleged to have taken | :30:18. | :30:23. | |
place. All I would say is, let's make sure that justice is delivered, | :30:24. | :30:28. | |
truth is uncovered and I think that the way to do that, as we have seen, | :30:29. | :30:33. | |
is by allowing the police to get on with their work. You say that, but | :30:34. | :30:37. | |
there are only seven police involved in this inquiry. There are 195 | :30:38. | :30:41. | |
involved in the hacking investigations. We can both agree | :30:42. | :30:45. | |
that child abuse is more important and serious than hacking. The Home | :30:46. | :30:50. | |
Office, there are reports that Home Office officials may have been | :30:51. | :30:53. | |
mentioned in the dossier, people don't trust people to investigate | :30:54. | :31:00. | |
themselves, Mr Clegg? No, I accept that we need to make sure that and | :31:01. | :31:03. | |
the police need to make sure that the police investigations are | :31:04. | :31:07. | |
thorough, well resourced. I can t think of anything more horrendous, I | :31:08. | :31:13. | |
can't, than powerful people organising themselves and worse | :31:14. | :31:15. | |
still, this is what is alleged, covering up for each other to abuse | :31:16. | :31:19. | |
the most vulnerable people in society's care - children. But at | :31:20. | :31:24. | |
the end of the day, the only way you can get people in the dock, the only | :31:25. | :31:29. | |
way you can get people charged, is by allowing the prosecuting | :31:30. | :31:32. | |
authorities and the police to do their job. I have an open mind about | :31:33. | :31:37. | |
what other inquiries take place A number of other inquiries are taking | :31:38. | :31:41. | |
place. I assume any additional inquiries wouldn't be able to second | :31:42. | :31:44. | |
guess or look into the matters which the police are looking into already. | :31:45. | :31:48. | |
All I would say is that people who have information, who want to | :31:49. | :31:51. | |
provide information which they think is relevant to this, please get in | :31:52. | :31:54. | |
touch with the police. Alright. Let's come on to our own inquiry | :31:55. | :32:00. | |
into the state of the Lib Dems. You have attempted to distance yourself | :32:01. | :32:04. | |
and the party from the Tories, but still stay in Government - it is | :32:05. | :32:08. | |
called aggressive differentiation. Why isn't it working? It's not | :32:09. | :32:13. | |
called aggressive differentiation. It is called "coalition". It is two | :32:14. | :32:19. | |
parties who retain different identities, different values, have | :32:20. | :32:22. | |
different aspirations for the future. But during this Parliament | :32:23. | :32:26. | |
have come together because we were facing a unique national emergency | :32:27. | :32:30. | |
back in 2010, the economy was teetering on the edge of a | :32:31. | :32:34. | |
precipice. I'm immensely proud, notwithstanding our political | :32:35. | :32:37. | |
challenges, which are real, I'm immensely proud that the Liberal | :32:38. | :32:39. | |
Democrats, we stepped up to the plate, held our nerve and without | :32:40. | :32:42. | |
the Liberal Democrats, there wouldn't now be that economic | :32:43. | :32:46. | |
recovery which is helping many people across the country. Why | :32:47. | :32:49. | |
aren't you getting any credit for it? Well, we won't get credit if we | :32:50. | :32:56. | |
spend all our time staring at our navals. If it wasn't for the Liberal | :32:57. | :33:00. | |
Democrats, there wouldn't be more jobs now available to people. They | :33:01. | :33:05. | |
don't believe you, they are giving the Tories the credit for the | :33:06. | :33:13. | |
recovery? Well, you might assert that, we will assert and I will | :33:14. | :33:17. | |
shout it from the rooftops that if we had not created the stability by | :33:18. | :33:22. | |
forming this Coalition Government and then hard-wired into the | :33:23. | :33:26. | |
Government's plans, not only the gory job of fixing the public | :33:27. | :33:29. | |
finances, but doing so much more fairly than would have been the | :33:30. | :33:32. | |
case, if the Conservatives had been in Government on their own, they | :33:33. | :33:35. | |
wouldn't have delivered these tax cuts. They wouldn't have delivered | :33:36. | :33:40. | |
the triple lock guarantee for pensions or the pupil premium. OK. | :33:41. | :33:47. | |
Why are you 8% in the polls? Well, because I think where we get our | :33:48. | :33:53. | |
message across - and I am here in my own constituency - this is a | :33:54. | :34:03. | |
constituency where I am a campaigning MP - we can dispel a lot | :34:04. | :34:08. | |
of the information and say we have done a decent thing by going into | :34:09. | :34:12. | |
Government and we have delivered big changes, big reforms which you can | :34:13. | :34:16. | |
touch and see in your school, in your pensions, in your taxes and | :34:17. | :34:22. | |
then people do support us and, in our areas of strength, we were | :34:23. | :34:26. | |
winning against both the Conservative and Labour parties It | :34:27. | :34:29. | |
is a big effort. Of course, there are lots of people from both left | :34:30. | :34:33. | |
and right who want to shout us down and want to vilify our role in | :34:34. | :34:37. | |
Government. What we also need to do - and Nick Harvey was quite right - | :34:38. | :34:42. | |
having been proud of our record of delivery, we also need to set out in | :34:43. | :34:47. | |
our manifesto as we are and as we will our promise of more, of more | :34:48. | :34:53. | |
support in schools. So why is it then... Why is it then that a Lib | :34:54. | :35:00. | |
Dem MP in our own film says you are in danger of no longer becoming a | :35:01. | :35:04. | |
National Party. That could be the Clegg legacy, you cease to be a | :35:05. | :35:11. | |
National Party? I'm a practical man. I believe passionately in what we | :35:12. | :35:14. | |
have done in politics. I am so proud of my party. I don't spend that much | :35:15. | :35:18. | |
time speculating that the end might be nigh. There is no point in doing | :35:19. | :35:22. | |
that. Let's get out there, which is what I do in my own constituency, in | :35:23. | :35:28. | |
challenges circumstances and say we are proud of what we have done, we | :35:29. | :35:31. | |
have done a good thing for the country, we have delivered more | :35:32. | :35:33. | |
Liberal Democrat policies than the party has ever dreamed delivering | :35:34. | :35:38. | |
before. We have a programme of change, of reform, of liberal | :35:39. | :35:42. | |
reform, which is very exciting. Just over the last few weeks, I have been | :35:43. | :35:46. | |
setting out our plans to provide more help to carers, to make sure | :35:47. | :35:50. | |
teachers in every classroom are properly qualified, that all kids in | :35:51. | :35:55. | |
school are being taught a proper core curriculum. That parts company | :35:56. | :36:00. | |
from the ideological rigidities with which the Conservatives deal with | :36:01. | :36:03. | |
education policy. Those are thing which speak to many of the values | :36:04. | :36:09. | |
that people who support us... Alright. When Mike Storey gets out | :36:10. | :36:15. | |
and about, he told this programme two weeks' ago that he finds that | :36:16. | :36:22. | |
you "are toxic on the doorstep" Look, as everybody knows, being the | :36:23. | :36:27. | |
leader of a party, which for the first time in its history goes into | :36:28. | :36:30. | |
Government, which is already a controversial thing to do because | :36:31. | :36:35. | |
you are governing with our enemies, the Conservatives, and on top of | :36:36. | :36:39. | |
that, doing all the difficult and unpopular things to fix the broken | :36:40. | :36:42. | |
economy which was left to us by Labour, of course as leader of that | :36:43. | :36:46. | |
party I get a lot of incoming fire from right and left. The right say | :36:47. | :36:50. | |
that I'm stopping the Conservatives doing what they want. There is a | :36:51. | :36:53. | |
good reason for that. They didn t win the election. The left say that | :36:54. | :36:58. | |
somehow we have lost our soul when we haven't. That happens day in day | :36:59. | :37:02. | |
out. Of course that will have some effect. My answer to that is not to | :37:03. | :37:06. | |
buckle to those criticisms, those misplaced Chris -- criticisms from | :37:07. | :37:14. | |
left and right, but to stand up proudly. Is it your intention to | :37:15. | :37:20. | |
fight the next election against an in-out referendum on Europe? Yes. | :37:21. | :37:26. | |
Unless there is major treaty change? Our position hasn't waivered, it | :37:27. | :37:31. | |
won't waiver, we are not going to flip-flop on the issue of the | :37:32. | :37:34. | |
referendum like the Conservatives did. We want an in-out referendum. | :37:35. | :37:38. | |
With ve legislated for the trigger when that will happen, when in u | :37:39. | :37:41. | |
powers are transferred to the European Union. That is what we have | :37:42. | :37:45. | |
said for years. We legislated for that... So no change? No change | :37:46. | :37:52. | |
Alright. We are expecting a reshuffle shortly. Will you keep | :37:53. | :37:54. | |
Vince Cable as Business Secretary to the election? I'm immensely proud of | :37:55. | :38:02. | |
what Vince has done. Yes, I intend to make sure that Vince continues to | :38:03. | :38:08. | |
serve in the Government in his present capacity Look what he has | :38:09. | :38:11. | |
done on apprenticeships, he's done more than many people for many years | :38:12. | :38:15. | |
to make sure we build-up manufacturing, the north here, not | :38:16. | :38:18. | |
just the south. I'm proud of what he's done. We have talked about some | :38:19. | :38:24. | |
heavy things. We know you have got into kickboxing. Is there any danger | :38:25. | :38:28. | |
of you becoming a mammal - you know what I mean - a middle-aged man in | :38:29. | :38:33. | |
Lycra! Will the Tour de France influence you? Absolutely no risk of | :38:34. | :38:44. | |
that whatsoever having seen the Tour de France start yesterday near | :38:45. | :38:49. | |
Leeds. I have the yellow Yorkshire sign on my pullover. I will see them | :38:50. | :38:54. | |
later whisk through my constituency. I will not try to emulate them. I'm | :38:55. | :38:58. | |
sure that is to the relief of a grateful nation. Thank you. | :38:59. | :39:01. | |
It's just gone 11.35, you're watching the Sunday Politics. | :39:02. | :39:04. | |
We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland who leave us now | :39:05. | :39:08. | |
for Sunday Politics Scotland. Coming up here in 20 minutes, | :39:09. | :39:10. | |
the Week In the East Midlands, | :39:11. | :39:18. | |
the courts order a council to hand regeneration money back | :39:19. | :39:21. | |
because it didn't allow European They are penalising the people | :39:22. | :39:23. | |
of Mansfield. Because it is them who have to pay | :39:24. | :39:28. | |
the money back Building up a head of steam, | :39:29. | :39:31. | |
is it time for our big city councils to get back | :39:32. | :39:36. | |
some of those big economic powers? My guests this week, a newcomer to | :39:37. | :39:40. | |
the studio, the region's newest MP, Robert Jenrick, who won New`rk | :39:41. | :39:44. | |
for the Conservatives in thd recent by election, and a veteran guest, | :39:45. | :39:47. | |
and just as welcome, Chris Leslie, Shadow Treasury spokesman | :39:48. | :39:52. | |
and Labour's Nottingham East MP Well, it's been an up and | :39:53. | :39:56. | |
down week for our Labour MPs. Three of them have been chosen to | :39:57. | :39:59. | |
take a leading role So good news for Leicester South's, | :40:00. | :40:02. | |
Jonathan Ashworth, Ashfield's Gloria De Piero, and from Derbyshire, | :40:03. | :40:07. | |
Chesterfield's Toby Perkins. But there was also a demotion for | :40:08. | :40:12. | |
Dennis Skinner, the Bolsover MP who was voted off Labour's ruling group, | :40:13. | :40:15. | |
the National Executive Commhttee. We never like to miss | :40:16. | :40:20. | |
a chance to show the Beast of Bolsover in action, so ldt's see | :40:21. | :40:23. | |
what the NEC will be missing. Why doesn't he have a public inquiry | :40:24. | :40:27. | |
and get this matter settled and make sure that the people of Bolsover are | :40:28. | :40:31. | |
able to leave their complaint at At this government and this | :40:32. | :40:36. | |
little squirt of a minister. Thousands of blind people are having | :40:37. | :40:44. | |
to march through the sheets of London to hang onto | :40:45. | :40:52. | |
their Disability Living Allowance. What a savage indictment of this | :40:53. | :40:56. | |
lousy rotten Tory government. Such passion, and of course | :40:57. | :41:03. | |
his interventions during thd State In a Skinner style, | :41:04. | :41:10. | |
how could you deprive I feel like I should be jabbing | :41:11. | :41:27. | |
my finger at you. Dennis is fantastic | :41:28. | :41:35. | |
and is a legend in his own right. He manages to communicate | :41:36. | :41:39. | |
and articulate what is wrong with the government and the attitude | :41:40. | :41:43. | |
of the Conservatives over ddcades, but ultimately it was an eldction | :41:44. | :41:48. | |
among Labour members of Parliament. I did, | :41:49. | :41:51. | |
but he did not have the numbers At the end | :41:52. | :41:56. | |
of the day it was an election. I am actually a bit sad to lose him, | :41:57. | :41:58. | |
but Dennis would acknowledge it is | :41:59. | :42:02. | |
a democracy and he would st`nd He will continue to be making sure | :42:03. | :42:06. | |
that ministers fear him Robert, I do not suppose yot are | :42:07. | :42:12. | |
a Skinner fan, are you? I have been at the receiving end | :42:13. | :42:17. | |
of Dennis Skinner. I have only been at the House | :42:18. | :42:19. | |
of Commons for three weeks. When I was sworn in, | :42:20. | :42:22. | |
he was the one who shouted out, He is a character | :42:23. | :42:25. | |
and he is great for the the`tre All those three Labour MPs we were | :42:26. | :42:33. | |
hearing about, the deputy organisers for the | :42:34. | :42:38. | |
election, are East Midlands MPs Does that mean what happens here | :42:39. | :42:41. | |
will influence Labour's approach My view is that the East Midlands | :42:42. | :42:45. | |
is really going to be critical. It is the heart of the country | :42:46. | :42:50. | |
and we need to convince as opposition that the people | :42:51. | :42:54. | |
of East Midlands should support It is about keeping our finger | :42:55. | :42:57. | |
on the pulse, listening to what the peopld of the | :42:58. | :43:03. | |
East Midlands have to say, `nd my colleagues involved in the campaign | :43:04. | :43:06. | |
will be well placed to do that. It sounds as if they are pl`nning a | :43:07. | :43:10. | |
strong attack on the East Mhdlands. There are undoubtedly a lot of key | :43:11. | :43:13. | |
seats here in the East Midl`nds We have a number of seats wd want to | :43:14. | :43:18. | |
defend and some we want to take like Nottingham South, | :43:19. | :43:22. | |
a stone's throw from the sttdio The good news is the East Mhdlands | :43:23. | :43:24. | |
is an area that is growing faster than anywhere else in the British | :43:25. | :43:28. | |
economy. My own constituency has had | :43:29. | :43:30. | |
8000 new jobs since 2010. If you want to look anywherd | :43:31. | :43:35. | |
in the country for good news stories coming out of the government, | :43:36. | :43:38. | |
it is the East Midlands. I would perhaps say that evdn | :43:39. | :43:41. | |
though some of the statistics on the economy, at last, ard | :43:42. | :43:48. | |
starting to recover, most pdople, in my constituency in Nottingham, | :43:49. | :43:52. | |
are not feeling the benefit yet There are other issues they are | :43:53. | :43:57. | |
going to be voting on as well and the quality of public sdrvices, | :43:58. | :44:00. | |
what the government are doing to the NHS, is going to come vdry much | :44:01. | :44:04. | |
to the fore. We are in the last year | :44:05. | :44:08. | |
before the general election and Dennis Skinner as much as anybody | :44:09. | :44:11. | |
else will be making sure we hold You only have to look four weeks ago | :44:12. | :44:14. | |
to the Newark by`election to see the Labour vote dropping 5% in a | :44:15. | :44:20. | |
seat that ordinarily any opposition seeking to win a government in a | :44:21. | :44:25. | |
year's time would be hoping to win. We won the first by`election | :44:26. | :44:30. | |
for the Conservatives in 20 years. In the East Midlands people | :44:31. | :44:39. | |
feel it is getting better. Of course it is not as good | :44:40. | :44:48. | |
as we want it to You have just won that by`election | :44:49. | :44:50. | |
and it is time to press on. I was given a pass | :44:51. | :44:55. | |
when I joined the House of Commons which says 05/15 on it so every day | :44:56. | :45:03. | |
I work I know that time is short in politics and we are not going to | :45:04. | :45:08. | |
take anything for granted. It is not hard to imagine what | :45:09. | :45:12. | |
Dennis Skinner would have m`de of the story that has emergdd | :45:13. | :45:15. | |
from Mansfield this week. The District Council there has | :45:16. | :45:17. | |
been told it's got to hand back The cash was part of a grant | :45:18. | :45:20. | |
from Brussels to help to pax for an office development | :45:21. | :45:26. | |
and improvement works at But the government says it broke EU | :45:27. | :45:28. | |
rules by not tendering This week the council lost ` High | :45:29. | :45:34. | |
Court case against the decision The council says it's going to | :45:35. | :45:40. | |
appeal against the decision But one former councillor | :45:41. | :45:43. | |
and local businessman criticised Mansfield not being a wealthy town | :45:44. | :45:48. | |
and having to pay back ?150,000 for something that is not rdally | :45:49. | :45:56. | |
anything wrong plus all the court Looking to what happened in December | :45:57. | :45:59. | |
when the European money was channelled | :46:00. | :46:07. | |
through, they signed it all off I do not know why nobody is | :46:08. | :46:12. | |
getting onto them and finding out. Instead we are having to pax | :46:13. | :46:15. | |
the money so it is a double whammy. I suppose the French governlent | :46:16. | :46:18. | |
would look after their own first. I suppose | :46:19. | :46:21. | |
the German government would. I am bothered about people | :46:22. | :46:22. | |
in this area. We need the money | :46:23. | :46:26. | |
and need to get the facilithes right and I think the council do ` proper | :46:27. | :46:29. | |
job and it is not their fault. It is penalising the people | :46:30. | :46:34. | |
of Mansfield because it is them who have to pay the money back | :46:35. | :46:39. | |
and where is it going to cole from? Well, we're joined by Margot Parker, | :46:40. | :46:43. | |
a UKIP MEP for the East Midlands, and Margot this seems | :46:44. | :46:50. | |
an extraordinary situation, the council having to give back | :46:51. | :46:52. | |
regeneration money. You see the heavy hand of Etropean | :46:53. | :46:56. | |
legislation. It takes over from what would be | :46:57. | :47:03. | |
perhaps a common`sense approach It would be right to be abld to get | :47:04. | :47:08. | |
contracts to local companies but of course they broke the spirit of the | :47:09. | :47:18. | |
agreement which was basically you I don't know if there was | :47:19. | :47:21. | |
a political motivation behind that at the time that was awarded, but | :47:22. | :47:28. | |
there will be many more likd this. The businessman we saw said that | :47:29. | :47:32. | |
the grant was handled by thd old Presumably if they got it wrong | :47:33. | :47:40. | |
with that one as he claims they Maybe, but I do not think this is | :47:41. | :47:48. | |
a European issue. It is typical of UKIP to make | :47:49. | :47:55. | |
this out to be a European issue The reason it is not a European | :47:56. | :47:58. | |
question... Let me explain why, this was | :47:59. | :48:01. | |
a contract which was only offered to a limited number of contractors | :48:02. | :48:06. | |
when it should have been offered to all contractors whether thex were | :48:07. | :48:09. | |
from wherever in the countrx. Small businesses should havd | :48:10. | :48:13. | |
been able to bid for that. That should not have been on a small | :48:14. | :48:16. | |
number of approved contractors. It is about making sure we have | :48:17. | :48:24. | |
competition so the price for the taxpayer is as low `s | :48:25. | :48:27. | |
possible and that was the problem. Do not be blinded by this | :48:28. | :48:31. | |
because it has the word EU. This case against Mansfield District | :48:32. | :48:37. | |
Council was brought by the Department for Communithes and | :48:38. | :48:43. | |
Local Government, your government. It is a European issue whatdver | :48:44. | :48:49. | |
Chris would like to say. We would be fined by the EU | :48:50. | :48:52. | |
unless we take action on thhs. There is a very strong case | :48:53. | :48:58. | |
that this is the kind of arda This is something the Conservative | :48:59. | :49:01. | |
government wants to include in its renegotiation | :49:02. | :49:10. | |
before the referendum... The court heard that Europe has no | :49:11. | :49:17. | |
interest in this, no one has actually made anx | :49:18. | :49:19. | |
complaint, so this is the government No, the government is being forced | :49:20. | :49:23. | |
to take a European regulation If we do not do this | :49:24. | :49:30. | |
it will be fined. What does it look like taking money | :49:31. | :49:34. | |
from councils on behalf of Durope? It is the kind of area that when the | :49:35. | :49:37. | |
Prime Minister goes to Europe after the general election, if he has the | :49:38. | :49:44. | |
mandate to go there, renegotiate and He is not going to | :49:45. | :49:47. | |
renegotiate anything. Mansfield District Council said it | :49:48. | :49:55. | |
did not want to comment bec`use it did not want to jeopardise `ny | :49:56. | :49:58. | |
appeal but issued a statement saying they follow rigorous procedtres and | :49:59. | :50:01. | |
all funding regulations are adhered to and added there was never any | :50:02. | :50:04. | |
attention not to comply with Lots of public bodies procure | :50:05. | :50:07. | |
for contracts. They want to spend money | :50:08. | :50:17. | |
on the local area. You should be allowing comp`nies to | :50:18. | :50:19. | |
compete so it is the best v`lue The fact we have so many politicians | :50:20. | :50:23. | |
pursuing their own agenda, laking out it is the evil hand of the EU, | :50:24. | :50:29. | |
this was a British government suing Will you be raising this | :50:30. | :50:35. | |
in Brussels? What do you feel about | :50:36. | :50:48. | |
the government's role in thhs? We want to see local jobs | :50:49. | :50:57. | |
and local businesses to be `ble to I do not want to see | :50:58. | :51:01. | |
a company coming from Germany I want smaller companies | :51:02. | :51:05. | |
to be able to do that. A company from another part | :51:06. | :51:10. | |
of Nottinghamshire, say, that was excluded because it was | :51:11. | :51:12. | |
an approved number of firms. I believe in open competition but I | :51:13. | :51:16. | |
do not believe Europe should have this overarching effect | :51:17. | :51:24. | |
when it tells people how thdy must This is about competition | :51:25. | :51:27. | |
and the British rule should be The rules are being enforced | :51:28. | :51:36. | |
on the British government bx Europe, The only way we can change this is | :51:37. | :51:42. | |
if the government can renegotiate This council said there was never | :51:43. | :51:48. | |
any intention not to comply with the procurement process but how | :51:49. | :51:58. | |
many more councils could end up in the same situation, paying back | :51:59. | :52:02. | |
money because of the same problem? As long as all local authorhties do | :52:03. | :52:07. | |
the right thing when they h`ve They should be saying to all the | :52:08. | :52:12. | |
companies in the area you c`n bid. It doesn't matter if it is local, | :52:13. | :52:18. | |
national, European. We want all countries to make sure | :52:19. | :52:23. | |
that when it is public monex being spent that everybody can have | :52:24. | :52:27. | |
a chance to get the best value Let's not get sidetracked | :52:28. | :52:30. | |
because you have an obsession She should see what is | :52:31. | :52:36. | |
at the reality of the case. I do not need you to remind me | :52:37. | :52:46. | |
of the difficulties. I represented a trade assochation | :52:47. | :52:49. | |
and because of that I saw wd had no influence in Europe and I knew that | :52:50. | :52:54. | |
small businesses had no voice Mansfield District Council light be | :52:55. | :52:58. | |
glad of a few extra powers, but details emerged this wedk | :52:59. | :53:08. | |
of plans to give even more dconomic Nottingham, Derby and Leicester | :53:09. | :53:11. | |
could soon get greater freedom to run their own affairs, whoever wins | :53:12. | :53:15. | |
the next general election. This is a replica of a sewer | :53:16. | :53:22. | |
that was built by a Leicestdr Those eminent town hall Victorians | :53:23. | :53:26. | |
were also building reservoirs providing gas | :53:27. | :53:32. | |
and electricity supplies. Some places even set up | :53:33. | :53:34. | |
their own banks. They had the power | :53:35. | :53:36. | |
and the clout to get Leicester's current boss is envious | :53:37. | :53:39. | |
of the power his city's Victorian The pumping station is | :53:40. | :53:46. | |
a permanent reminder of that. They had the full range | :53:47. | :53:53. | |
of powers open to them. Today central government constantly | :53:54. | :53:57. | |
feels the need to interfere. But are these images prompthng | :53:58. | :54:01. | |
today's politicians to give Giving power to local peopld | :54:02. | :54:05. | |
to make local decisions. City regions offering England's | :54:06. | :54:13. | |
cities new economic powers that will Mayors and council leaders | :54:14. | :54:19. | |
and cities need the power to be able to ensure that their cities have | :54:20. | :54:25. | |
the infrastructure in place, the services, the roads, the sewers the | :54:26. | :54:30. | |
things that enable people to know that cities are | :54:31. | :54:35. | |
the places to come and to invest. There's a touch of flower power | :54:36. | :54:39. | |
outside the offices of the council. This Leicester suburban borough does | :54:40. | :54:43. | |
not welcome the prospect of being Its leader, a Liberal Democrat, | :54:44. | :54:47. | |
is a city regions sceptic. It sounds like a good thing unless | :54:48. | :54:55. | |
you are in a borough or a dhstrict What would happen if somebody was in | :54:56. | :54:59. | |
charge without a democratic mandate? They would impose it where they | :55:00. | :55:08. | |
thought it was appropriate. So it would be the city acthng | :55:09. | :55:11. | |
as a Big Brother? Is this one of those big political | :55:12. | :55:14. | |
ideas that is going to boom and bust in but simply fade away | :55:15. | :55:21. | |
after the next general election Charting the rise and fall of | :55:22. | :55:26. | |
political ideas is Alistair Jones. Enhanced powers for big cithes, | :55:27. | :55:32. | |
why is it back on the agend`? Labour started up in the 1970s but | :55:33. | :55:37. | |
Thatcher took it much furthdr much faster and in many respects took | :55:38. | :55:42. | |
away a lot of the powers of local authorities leaving them with very | :55:43. | :55:45. | |
little other than monitoring service provision rather than being | :55:46. | :55:49. | |
a true service provider. This woman hopes to be elected | :55:50. | :55:53. | |
the first Conservative MP I think the City Deal could | :55:54. | :55:56. | |
develop those projects. She welcomes the coalition's | :55:57. | :56:03. | |
City Deal initiative. That is giving cities | :56:04. | :56:06. | |
like Nottingham targeted funding It is different from Labour's city | :56:07. | :56:08. | |
regions policy which she fe`rs would The City Deal in Nottingham has | :56:09. | :56:15. | |
?25 million and Nottingham was allowed to spend some of th`t money | :56:16. | :56:22. | |
upfront unlike many other chties. Could City Deal really deliver | :56:23. | :56:27. | |
the power it has promised whthout giving our cities back | :56:28. | :56:30. | |
their political muscle? We need to have a wide rangd | :56:31. | :56:33. | |
of financial measures where we can raise the money that is needed | :56:34. | :56:38. | |
at a local level and be accountable Is local taxation the price | :56:39. | :56:41. | |
of big`city power? That particular flower may | :56:42. | :56:48. | |
take some time to bed down. What we have to do is get ott | :56:49. | :56:53. | |
of the habit of seeing Whitdhall and Westminster holding onto all | :56:54. | :57:01. | |
of these powers. We have seen more centralis`tion in | :57:02. | :57:04. | |
recent years when local authorities Road schemes, skills investlent that | :57:05. | :57:12. | |
needs to take place, help whth regeneration, those are the sorts | :57:13. | :57:20. | |
of decisions we have to try... What does it mean in cities like | :57:21. | :57:22. | |
Nottingham, Leicester and Ddrby We used to have | :57:23. | :57:28. | |
a regional development agency We are left with these conftsed | :57:29. | :57:31. | |
bodies, the Local Enterprisd Partnerships, a lot of acronyms | :57:32. | :57:36. | |
and they do not have any resources, they do not have as strong | :57:37. | :57:41. | |
coordination as they should do. If Whitehall trusted those | :57:42. | :57:45. | |
local leaders people would It has to be about trusting | :57:46. | :57:48. | |
local decision`making. Why should there be all those powers | :57:49. | :57:55. | |
for the London leadership btt for It is very important in this | :57:56. | :58:03. | |
government that we move wealth and jobs, opportunities, outside | :58:04. | :58:13. | |
of London and the south`east. Are you going to give more | :58:14. | :58:15. | |
powers to the cities? You have seen that | :58:16. | :58:18. | |
from this government, major projects like HS2, now the | :58:19. | :58:19. | |
Chancellor is talking about HS3 There was a conference in Lhverpool | :58:20. | :58:22. | |
were Nottingham was represented and they were looking at wh`t great | :58:23. | :58:30. | |
cities can do to get more Three out of four jobs created | :58:31. | :58:33. | |
since 2010 have been in the regions outside of London | :58:34. | :58:41. | |
and the south`east. Giving more power to cities in the | :58:42. | :58:44. | |
East Midlands would mean giving more I do not think it is | :58:45. | :58:49. | |
about party politics. The key thing is how can yot | :58:50. | :58:55. | |
make great cities good placds to That is what the government is all | :58:56. | :58:59. | |
about, we are trying to boost the The economy is the fastest`growing | :59:00. | :59:04. | |
part of the British economy. The Labour plans are | :59:05. | :59:11. | |
rehashing old plans. What I would be concerned | :59:12. | :59:16. | |
about is giving Labour politicians the powers to raise more taxes | :59:17. | :59:21. | |
which puts at risk everything that has been worked on by the British | :59:22. | :59:25. | |
public, by the government, Do not hand back the keys to | :59:26. | :59:28. | |
the people who wrecked the British We are getting | :59:29. | :59:32. | |
the election slogans out early. Are councils up to | :59:33. | :59:40. | |
handling more power? We have to trust local people to | :59:41. | :59:44. | |
pick the leaders to do They used to talk about loc`lism and | :59:45. | :59:46. | |
offered all sorts on that btt we have still got local areas having to | :59:47. | :59:52. | |
go with a begging bowl to Whitehall. It should not be for the Ch`ncellor | :59:53. | :59:59. | |
We should have more local leadership. | :00:00. | :00:05. | |
Some places have chosen to had them and some have not. | :00:06. | :00:16. | |
In Nottingham, how the council has run its tram | :00:17. | :00:19. | |
We do not want to impose maxors on different parts | :00:20. | :00:28. | |
of the country which is why we have been committed to doing refdrendums | :00:29. | :00:31. | |
and in Nottingham there seels to be difference of opinion. | :00:32. | :00:34. | |
People just outside of the city are not that kedn to be | :00:35. | :00:38. | |
You are centralising crime and health. | :00:39. | :00:47. | |
Time for a round`up of the other political storhes. | :00:48. | :00:58. | |
Tempers are still running hhgh at the Erewash borough council. | :00:59. | :01:01. | |
Last week tempers broke out after a council meeting. | :01:02. | :01:07. | |
The Labour opposition now s`ys the council is simply out | :01:08. | :01:09. | |
The ruling Tories have dismhssed the claims as ridiculous | :01:10. | :01:14. | |
and accused Labour of running a dirty tricks c`mpaign. | :01:15. | :01:18. | |
Derbyshire's Conservative MPs have stepped up their lobby of the | :01:19. | :01:21. | |
government to get the new skills academy for HS2 built in Derby. | :01:22. | :01:26. | |
The city is on a shortlist for the academy | :01:27. | :01:28. | |
The MPs have written to the Minister for Schools and Enterprise | :01:29. | :01:33. | |
emphasising Derby's long heritage in train making. | :01:34. | :01:38. | |
Library users have until tomorrow to have their voice | :01:39. | :01:40. | |
The County Council has been consulted | :01:41. | :01:44. | |
on plans to hand over 36 libraries over to local communities to run. | :01:45. | :01:50. | |
The council has warned that some libraries may close. | :01:51. | :01:53. | |
The change could save an estimated ?100,000 a year. | :01:54. | :02:02. | |
That's the Sunday Politics here in the East Midlands. | :02:03. | :02:04. | |
Thanks to Chris Leslie and Robert Jenrick | :02:05. | :02:07. | |
progress in London was being made before that started. I wish we had | :02:08. | :02:17. | |
longer for that. It is all over to you. | :02:18. | :02:20. | |
What will Thursday's mass public sector strike achieve? | :02:21. | :02:22. | |
Has David Cameron's anti-Juncker attacks clawed back support | :02:23. | :02:25. | |
And is Alan Johnson really thinking about challenging Ed Miliband | :02:26. | :02:29. | |
We will start with the strikes, Matt Hancock was hardline in the | :02:30. | :02:49. | |
head-to-head that he did with the TUC. I guess that the Tory internal | :02:50. | :02:54. | |
polling and focus groups must be telling them that there are votes in | :02:55. | :02:58. | |
taking a tough line? There is that and there is the fact that they are | :02:59. | :03:07. | |
now much more confident on any economic policy two or three years | :03:08. | :03:12. | |
ago. They shied away from it because the economy was shrinking, there was | :03:13. | :03:16. | |
still a danger that public sector job losses would lead to higher | :03:17. | :03:20. | |
unemployment overall. Now, the economy is growing, they have a good | :03:21. | :03:25. | |
story to sell about employment so they are much more bolshy and brazen | :03:26. | :03:30. | |
than they were two or three years ago. They know that it always causes | :03:31. | :03:35. | |
problems for Labour. Labour is naturally sympathetic to the public | :03:36. | :03:40. | |
sector workers, pay being squeezed, they are striking to make an issue | :03:41. | :03:45. | |
of it. And yet they can't quite come out and give the unions 100% Labour | :03:46. | :03:50. | |
support? Exactly. You saw Tristram Hunt on the Marr Show this morning | :03:51. | :03:54. | |
squirming to support the idea of strikes, but not this particular | :03:55. | :03:57. | |
strike. It was always the question that gets asked to Labour - who | :03:58. | :04:01. | |
funds you? That is a real problem. The bit that gets me is they trail | :04:02. | :04:05. | |
this ef are I time there is a - every time there is a strike, this | :04:06. | :04:10. | |
idea of cutting it to ballots and local election turnout was a third. | :04:11. | :04:14. | |
Boris Johnson was elected Mayor of London with 38% turnout. We need to | :04:15. | :04:18. | |
talk about-turnout across our democracy. That is an easy rebuttal | :04:19. | :04:27. | |
for Labour to make. Matt Hancock was hardline about changing the strike | :04:28. | :04:30. | |
law. When you asked him the question, if you are not going to | :04:31. | :04:34. | |
stabilise the public finances till 2018, does this mean the pay freeze | :04:35. | :04:39. | |
or no real term pay increase in the public sector will increase till | :04:40. | :04:43. | |
2018, h e was inner vous on that one. -- he was nervous on that one. | :04:44. | :04:49. | |
This strike is different to those strikes that took place in 2010 At | :04:50. | :04:54. | |
that time, the TUC and the Labour Leadership thought there was going | :04:55. | :04:58. | |
to be a great movement out there, not a kind of 1926 movement, but a | :04:59. | :05:03. | |
great movement out there. This time round, I think the climate is | :05:04. | :05:10. | |
different. Ed Miliband talking about wage increases being outstripped by | :05:11. | :05:14. | |
inflation and people not seeing the recovery coming through into their | :05:15. | :05:17. | |
pay packets. Slightly more tricky territory for the Tories. If The | :05:18. | :05:25. | |
Labour machine cannot make something out of Matt Hancock telling this | :05:26. | :05:31. | |
programme there will be no increase in pay for workers in the public | :05:32. | :05:36. | |
sector till 2018, they have a problem? They do have a problem | :05:37. | :05:39. | |
They have to say always that they would not just turn the money taps | :05:40. | :05:43. | |
on. That is the dance that you are locked in all the time. Can we all | :05:44. | :05:47. | |
agree that Alan Johnson is not going to stand against Ed Miliband this | :05:48. | :05:55. | |
side of the election? Some politicians are cynical enough. I | :05:56. | :05:59. | |
don't think Alan Johnson is one Do we agree? There is nothing in it for | :06:00. | :06:04. | |
Labour and certainly not for Alan Johnson. No way. It is the last | :06:05. | :06:09. | |
thing he would want to do. There are some desperate members going around | :06:10. | :06:14. | |
trying to find a stalking horse Alan Johnson will not be their man. | :06:15. | :06:17. | |
He has more important things to do on a Thursday night on BBC One! | :06:18. | :06:23. | |
Isn't it something about the febrile state of the Labour Party that | :06:24. | :06:27. | |
Labour, some Labour backbenchers or in the Shadow Cabinet, can float the | :06:28. | :06:32. | |
idea of this nonsense? If there was a time to do it, maybe it was in the | :06:33. | :06:36. | |
middle of the Parliament. With ten months left, you are stuck with the | :06:37. | :06:40. | |
leader you chose in 2010. I remember them failing to understand this in | :06:41. | :06:47. | |
January of 2010 when there was that last push against Gordon Brown. Five | :06:48. | :06:51. | |
months before an election, they were trying to do something. The deputy | :06:52. | :07:03. | |
Leader of the Labour Party had something to do with it. There is | :07:04. | :07:07. | |
deep unease about Ed Miliband. There are problems but Alan Johnson is not | :07:08. | :07:17. | |
the man. I think there is no chance of it! | :07:18. | :07:20. | |
If the most recent polls are to be believed, David Cameron appears to | :07:21. | :07:22. | |
have enjoyed a 'Juncker bounce' - clawing back some support from UKIP | :07:23. | :07:26. | |
after he very publicly opposed the appointment of Jean-Claude Juncker | :07:27. | :07:29. | |
to the post of EU Commission president. Last week Nigel Farage | :07:30. | :07:32. | |
took his newly enlarged UKIP contingent to Strasbourg | :07:33. | :07:35. | |
for the first session of the new European Parliament. | :07:36. | :07:48. | |
These two gentlemen have nothing to say today. It was the usual dull, | :07:49. | :07:57. | |
looking back to a model invented 50 years ago and we are the ones that | :07:58. | :08:01. | |
want democracy, we are the ones that want nation state, we are the ones | :08:02. | :08:05. | |
that want a global future for our countries, not to be trapped inside | :08:06. | :08:13. | |
this museum. Thank you. I can see we will be covering more of the | :08:14. | :08:14. | |
European Parliament at last! It's rumoured he's likely to stand | :08:15. | :08:21. | |
in the next general election in the Kent constituency of Thanet South, | :08:22. | :08:24. | |
currently held by the Conservatives. Last week the Conservatives selected | :08:25. | :08:26. | |
their candidate for the seat - Craig McKinlay - | :08:27. | :08:29. | |
a former deputy leader of UKIP. Did you get the short straw, you | :08:30. | :08:40. | |
have got a seat that Nigel Farage is probably going to fight? Not in the | :08:41. | :08:43. | |
slightest. It is a seat that I know well. It is a seat that there's | :08:44. | :08:49. | |
obvious euro scepticism there and my qualities are right for that seat. | :08:50. | :08:53. | |
UKIP got some very good... What are your qualities? Deep-seated | :08:54. | :08:59. | |
conservatism, I was a founder of UKIP, I wrote the script back in | :09:00. | :09:03. | |
1992. My heart is Conservative values. They are best put out to the | :09:04. | :09:11. | |
public by me in South Thanet. It would be ridiculous if Nigel chose | :09:12. | :09:16. | |
that seat. We need a building block of people like myself to form a | :09:17. | :09:19. | |
Government if we are going to have that referendum that is long | :09:20. | :09:22. | |
overdue. I don't think he's got the luxury of losing somebody who is | :09:23. | :09:27. | |
very similar in views to him. He would be best look looking | :09:28. | :09:31. | |
elsewhere. You wouldn't like him to stand in your seat, would you? It | :09:32. | :09:34. | |
would seem to make very little sense. People would say what is UKIP | :09:35. | :09:39. | |
all about if it's fighting people who have got a similar view to them? | :09:40. | :09:44. | |
We do need to build a majority Government for the Conservatives | :09:45. | :09:47. | |
next year because only us are offering that clear in-out | :09:48. | :09:51. | |
referendum. I want to be one of those building blocks that is part | :09:52. | :09:55. | |
of that renegotiation that we will put to public in a referendum. | :09:56. | :10:00. | |
Sounds to me like if the choice is between you and Nigel Farage next | :10:01. | :10:11. | |
May in Thanet South, it is Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee? Not at all The | :10:12. | :10:15. | |
danger to this country is another Labour Government. That is one of | :10:16. | :10:19. | |
the main reasons that I left UKIP in 2005 because that last five years of | :10:20. | :10:23. | |
the Labour Government was the most dangerous to the fundamentals of | :10:24. | :10:27. | |
Britain that we have ever seen. I'm happy with the Conservatives. I have | :10:28. | :10:37. | |
full Conservative values. I am a Euro-sceptic. Thank you for joining | :10:38. | :10:44. | |
us. The Westminster bubble yet again, which has a herd mentality, a | :10:45. | :10:52. | |
bubble with a herd mentality, it got it wrong yet again. Mr Cameron's | :10:53. | :10:58. | |
isolated, he is useless at diplomacy, all of which may be true, | :10:59. | :11:03. | |
but the British people liked it and his backbenchers liked it? True | :11:04. | :11:07. | |
Although some of us would say it is possible... You are speaking for the | :11:08. | :11:11. | |
bubble? I'm speaking for my segment of the bubble. Some of us argued | :11:12. | :11:15. | |
that he got it wrong diplomatically and it would be wrong politically. | :11:16. | :11:27. | |
It will be the passage of time. We saw UKIP decline between the 20 4 | :11:28. | :11:33. | |
European elections and the 2005 General. You would expect something | :11:34. | :11:38. | |
similar to happen this time round. The question is how far low do they | :11:39. | :11:42. | |
fall? They are still registering 12-15% in the opinion polls. They | :11:43. | :11:47. | |
are. When Mr Cameron wielded his veto which again the Westminster | :11:48. | :11:51. | |
bubble said it's terrible, it is embarrassing, he overtook Labour in | :11:52. | :11:55. | |
the polls for a while doing that. He's had a Juncker bounce. If you | :11:56. | :12:00. | |
were a strategist, would you not conclude the more Euro-sceptic I am, | :12:01. | :12:04. | |
the better it is for me in the polls? In the short-term, yes. This | :12:05. | :12:15. | |
is the short-term thinking we are supposed to despise. The electricion | :12:16. | :12:20. | |
is very clever for a different - the selection is very clever for a | :12:21. | :12:23. | |
different reason. It is this anti-London feeling in Thanet South. | :12:24. | :12:28. | |
He is a councillor, he grew up in the constituency. He is a chartered | :12:29. | :12:31. | |
accountant. He is somebody who can be seen to be a champion of local | :12:32. | :12:36. | |
people. If they had parachuted in a special adviser, they would be in | :12:37. | :12:39. | |
real trouble. He wants to get out... This is the third representative of | :12:40. | :12:43. | |
the bubble? He wants to get out of the European Union which David | :12:44. | :12:46. | |
Cameron doesn't want to do. It was interesting for that statement to | :12:47. | :12:51. | |
MPs on Monday, there were mild Euro-sceptics who said, "I can't | :12:52. | :12:55. | |
take this." The Speaker said can the baying mob, the Conservative MPs, | :12:56. | :13:01. | |
quieten down, please. Ben Bradshaw, the former Minister made it, he | :13:02. | :13:06. | |
said, "I'm reminded when the leader of the Labour Party before Harold | :13:07. | :13:13. | |
Wilson made that famous Euro-sceptic speech and Mrs Gaitskell said | :13:14. | :13:17. | |
darling, the wrong people are cheering." That is the challenge. | :13:18. | :13:20. | |
Thank you, bubbles! The Daily Politics is back | :13:21. | :13:23. | |
at its usual Noon time every day And I'll be back here on BBC One | :13:24. | :13:27. | |
next Sunday at 11pm for the last Sunday Politics of the summer - I'll | :13:28. | :13:32. | |
be talking to Scotland's Deputy Remember, if it's Sunday, | :13:33. | :13:37. | |
it's the Sunday Politics. | :13:38. | :13:45. |