22/01/2017 Sunday Politics East Midlands


22/01/2017

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It's Sunday morning, and this is the Sunday Politics.

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Theresa May will be the first foreign leader to visit US

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President Donald Trump this week - she's promised to hold "very

:00:44.:00:45.

frank" conversations with the new and controversial

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Speaking of the 45th President of America,

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we'll be looking at what the Trump presidency could hold

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in store for Britain and the rest of the world.

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And with the Supreme Court expected to say that Parliament should

:01:06.:01:08.

have a vote before the Brexit process begins, we'll ask

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And in the East Midlands: what Labour will do next.

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What impact will leaving the single market have on businesses here?

:01:19.:01:20.

And a fairer funding formula that leaves

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And to talk about all of that and more, I'm joined by three

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journalists who, in an era of so-called fake news, can be

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relied upon for their accuracy, their impartiality -

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and their willingness to come to the studio

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It's Steve Richards, Julia Hartley-Brewer

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and Tom Newton Dunn, and during the programme they'll be

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tweeting as often as the 45th President of the USA in the middle

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So - the Prime Minister has been appearing on the BBC this morning.

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She was mostly talking about Donald Trump and Brexit,

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but she was also asked about a story on the front of this

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It's reported that an unarmed Trident missile test fired

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from the submarine HMS Vengeance near the Florida coast in June

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The paper says the incident took place weeks before a crucial Commons

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Well, let's have listen to Theresa May talking

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The issue that we were talking about in the House of Commons

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It was about whether or not we should renew Trident,

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whether we should look to the future and have a replacement Trident.

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That's what we were talking about in the House of Commons.

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That's what the House of Commons voted for.

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He doesn't want to defend our country with an independent

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There are tests that take place all the time, regularly,

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What we were talking about in that debate that took place...

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I'm not going to get an answer to this.

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Tom, it was clear this was going to come up this morning. It is on the

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front page of the Sunday Times. It would seem to me the Prime Minister

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wasn't properly briefed on how to reply. I think she probably was, but

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the Prime Minister we now have doesn't necessarily answer all

:03:46.:03:48.

questions in the straightest way. She didn't answer that one and all.

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Unlike previous ones? She made it quite clear she was briefed. You

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read between the Theresa May lines. By simply not answering Andrew Marr

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four times, it is obvious she knew, and that she knew before she went

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into the House of Commons and urged everyone to renew the ?40 billion

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replacement programme. Of course it is an embarrassment, but does it

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have political legs? I don't think so. She didn't mislead the Commons.

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If she wanted to close it down, the answer should have been, these are

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matters of national security. There's nothing more important in

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that than our nuclear deterrent. I'm not prepared to talk about testing.

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End of. But she didn't. Maybe you should be briefing her. That's a

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good answer. She is an interesting interviewee. She shows it when she

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is nervous. She was transparently uneasy answering those questions,

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and the fact she didn't answer it definitively suggests she did know

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and didn't want to say it, and she answered awkwardly. But how wider

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point, that the House of Commons voted for the renewal of Trident,

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suggests to me that in the broader sweep of things, this will not run,

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because if there was another vote, I would suggest she'd win it again.

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But it is an embarrassment and she handled it with a transparent

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awkwardness. She said that the tests go on all the time, but not of the

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missiles. Does it not show that when the Prime Minister leaves her

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comfort zone of Home Office affairs or related matters, she often

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struggles. We've seen it under questioning from Mr Corbyn even, and

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we saw it again today. Absolutely. Tests of various aspects of the

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missiles go on all the time, but there's only been five since 2000.

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What you described wouldn't have worked, because in previous tests

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they have always been very public about it. Look how well our missiles

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work! She may not have misled Parliament, but she may not have

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known about it. If she didn't know, does Michael Fallon still have a job

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on Monday? Should Parliament know about a test that doesn't work? Some

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would say absolutely not. Our deterrent is there to deter people

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from attacking us. If they know that we are hitting the United States by

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mistake rather than the Atlantic Ocean, then... There is such a thing

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as national security, and telling all the bad guys about where we are

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going wrong may not be a good idea. It was her first statement as Prime

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Minister to put her case for renewal, to have the vote on

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Trident, and in that context, it is significant not to say anything. If

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anyone knows where the missile landed, give us a call!

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So Donald Trump's inauguration day closed with him dancing

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to Frank Sinatra's My Way, and whatever your view on the 45th

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President of the United States he certainly did do it his way.

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Not for him the idealistic call for national unity -

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instead he used Friday's inaugural address to launch a blistering

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attack on the dark state of the nation and the political

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class, and to promise to take his uncompromising approach

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from the campaign trail to the White House.

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Here's Adam Fleming, with a reminder of how

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First, dropping by for a cup of tea and a slightly awkward exchange

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Then, friends, foes and predecessors watched

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I, Donald John Trump, do solemnly swear...

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The crowds seemed smaller than previous inaugurations,

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the speech tougher then any previous incoming president.

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From this day forth, it's going to be only America first.

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In the meantime, there were sporadic protests in Washington, DC.

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Opponents made their voices heard around the world too.

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The President, who'd criticised the work of

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the intelligence agencies, fitted in a visit to the CIA.

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There is nobody that feels stronger about the intelligence community

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And, back at the office, in the dark, a signature signalled

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the end of the Obama era and the dawn of Trump.

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So, as you heard there, President Trump used his

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inauguration to repeat his campaign promise to put "America first"

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in all his decisions, and offered some hints of what to expect

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He talked of in America in carnage, to be rebuilt by American hands and

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American Labour. President Trump has already started to dismantle key

:09:43.:09:46.

parts of the Obama Legacy, including the unwinding of the affordable care

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act, and the siding of the climate action plan to tackle global

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warning. Little to say about foreign policy, but promised to eradicate

:09:57.:10:01.

Islamic terrorism from the face of the Earth, insisting he would

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restore the US military to unquestioning dominance. He also

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said the US would develop a state missile defence system to deal with

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threats he sees from Iran and North Korea. In a statement that painted a

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bleak picture of the country he now runs, he said his would be a law and

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order Administration, and he would keep the innocents safe by building

:10:27.:10:31.

the border war with Mexico. One thing he didn't mention, for the

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first time ever, there is a Eurosceptic in the oval office, who

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is also an enthusiast for Brexit. We're joined now by Ted Malloch -

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he's a Trump supporter who's been tipped as the president's

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choice for US ambassador to the EU, and he's

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just flown back from Washington. And by James Rubin -

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he's a democrat who served Let's start with that last point I

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made in the voice over there. We now have a Eurosceptic in the oval

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office. He is pro-Brexit and not keen on further European Union

:11:09.:11:11.

integration. What are the implications of that? First of all,

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a renewal of the US- UK special relationship. You see the Prime

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Minister already going to build and rebuild this relationship. Already,

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the bust of Winston Churchill is back in the oval office.

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Interestingly, Martin Luther King's bust is also there, so there is an

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act of unity in that first movement of dusts. Donald Trump will be

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oriented between bilateral relationships and not multilateral

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or supernatural. Supranational full. What are the implications of someone

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in the White House now not believing in it? I think we are present in the

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unravelling of America's leadership of the West. There is now a thing

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called the west that America has led since the end of World War II,

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creating supranational - we just heard supernatural! These

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institutions were created. With American leadership, the world was

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at peace in Europe, and the world grew increasingly democratic and

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prosperous. Wars were averted that could be extremely costly. When

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something works in diplomacy, you don't really understand what the

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consequences could have been. I think we've got complacent. The new

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president is taking advantage of that. It is a terrible tragedy that

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so many in the West take for granted the successful leadership and

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institutions we have built. You could argue, as James Rubin has

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argued in some articles, that... Will Mr Trump's America be more

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involved in the world than the Obama won? Or will it continue the process

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with running shoes on that began with Mr Obama? President Obama

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stepped back from American leadership. He withdrew from the

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world. He had a horrendous eight years in office, and American powers

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have diminished everywhere in the world, not just in Europe. That

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power will reassert. The focus will be on America first, but there are

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foreign interests around the world... How does it reassert itself

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around the world? I think the institutions will be recreated. Some

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may be taken down. There could be some new ones. I think Nato itself,

:13:55.:14:00.

and certainly the Defence Secretary will have discussions with Donald

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Trump about how Nato can be reshaped, and maybe there will be

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more burden sharing. That is an important thing for him. You are

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tipped to be the US ambassador to Brussels, to the EU, and we are

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still waiting to hear if that will happen. Is it true to say that Mr

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Trump does not believe in EU integration? I think you made that

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clear in the speech. He talked about supranational. He does not believe

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in those kinds of organisations. He is investing himself in bilateral

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relationships, the first of which will be with the UK. So we have a

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president who does not believe in EU integration and has been highly

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critical of Nato. Do the people he has appointed to defend, Secretary

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of State, national security, do you think that will temper this

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anti-NATO wretched? Will he come round to a more pro-NATO situation?

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I think those of us who care about America's situation in the world

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will come in to miss President Obama a lot. I think the Secretary of

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State and the faculty of defence will limit the damage and will urge

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him not to take formal steps to unravel this most powerful and most

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successful alliance in history, the Nato alliance. But the damage is

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already being done. When you are the leader of the West, leadership means

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you are persuading, encouraging, bolstering your leadership and these

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institutions by the way you speak. Millions, if not hundreds of

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millions of people, have now heard the US say that what they care about

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is within their borders. What do you say to that? It is such

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an overstatement. The point is that Donald Trump is in a Jacksonian

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tradition of national populism. He is appealing to the people first.

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The other day, I was sitting below this page during the address, and he

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said, everyone sitting behind me as part of the problem. Everyone in

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front of me, the crowd and the crowd on television, is part of the

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solution, so we are giving the Government back to the people. That

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emphasis is going to change American life, including American

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International relations. It doesn't moving the leak back -- it doesn't

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mean we are moving out of Nato, it simply means we will put our

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national interests first. There were echoes of Andrew Jackson's

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inauguration address of 1820. That night, the Jacksonians trashed the

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White House, but Mr Trump's people didn't do that, so there is a

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difference there. He also said something else in the address - that

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protectionism would lead to prosperity. I would suggest there is

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no evidence for that in the post-war world. He talked about protecting

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the American worker, American jobs, the American economy. I actually

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think that Donald Trump will not turn out to be a protectionist. If

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you read the heart of the deal... This is referring to two Republican

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senators who introduce massive tariffs in the Hoover

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administration. Exactly. If you read The Art Of The Deal, you will see

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how Donald Trump deals with individuals and countries. There is

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a lot of bluster, positioning, and I think you already see this in

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bringing jobs by the United States. Things are going to change. Let's

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also deal with this proposition. China is the biggest loser of this

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election result. Let me say this: The first time in American history

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and American president has set forth his view of the world, and it is a

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mercantile view of the world, who makes more money, who gets more

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trade, it doesn't look at the shared values, leadership and defends the

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world needs. The art of the deal has no application to America's

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leadership of the world, that's what we're learning. You can be a great

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businessman and make great real estate deals - whether he did not is

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debatable - but it has nothing to do with inspiring shared values from

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the West. You saying China may lose, because he may pressure them to

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reduce their trade deficit with the US. They may or may not. We may both

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lose. Right now, his Secretary of State has said, and I think he will

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walk this back when he is brief, that they will prevent the Chinese

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from entering these islands in the South China Sea. If they were to do

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that, it would be a blockade, and there would be a shooting war

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between the United States and China, so US - China relations are the most

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important bilateral relationship of the United States, and they don't

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lend themselves to the bluff and bluster that may have worked when

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you are trying to get a big building on second Ave in Manhattan. Is China

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the biggest loser? I think the Chinese have a lot to lose. Gigi and

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Ping was in Davos this week -- Xi Jin Ping was in Davos.

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Is Germany the second biggest loser in the sense that I understand he

:20:02.:20:07.

hasn't agreed time to see Angela Merkel yet, also that those close to

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him believe that Germany is guilty of currency manipulation by adopting

:20:16.:20:18.

a weak your row instead of the strong Deutschmark, and that that is

:20:19.:20:22.

why they are running a huge balance of payments surplus with the United

:20:23.:20:28.

States. American - German relations may not be great. There is a point

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of view throughout Europe. You only have to talk to the southern

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Europeans about this question. It seems like the euro has been aligned

:20:38.:20:41.

to benefit Germany. Joe Stiglitz, the famous left of centre Democrat

:20:42.:20:47.

economist, made the same case in a recent book. In this case, I think

:20:48.:20:54.

Germany will be put under the spotlight. Angela Merkel has shown

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herself to be the most respected and the most successful leader in

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Europe. We who care about the West, who care about the shared values of

:21:05.:21:08.

the West, should pray and hope that she is re-elected. This isn't about

:21:09.:21:13.

dollars and cents. We're living in a time whether Russian leader has

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another country in Europe and for some inexplicable reason, the

:21:19.:21:24.

American president, who can use his insult diplomacy on everyone,

:21:25.:21:26.

including Mrs Merkel, the only person he can't seem to find

:21:27.:21:33.

anything to criticise about is Mr Putin. There are things more

:21:34.:21:37.

important than the actual details of your currency. There are things like

:21:38.:21:41.

preventing another war in Europe, preventing a war between the Chinese

:21:42.:21:44.

and the US. You talk about the Trident missile all morning, nuclear

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deterrence is extremely important. It doesn't lend itself to the bluff

:21:52.:21:56.

and bluster of a real estate deal. I understand all that, but the fact we

:21:57.:21:59.

are even talking about these things shows the new world we are moving

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into. I'd like to get you both to react to this. This is a man that

:22:05.:22:08.

ended the Bush Dynasty, a man that beat the Clinton machine. In his

:22:09.:22:16.

inauguration, not only did he not reach out to the Democrats, he

:22:17.:22:18.

didn't even mention the Republicans. These are changed days for us. They

:22:19.:22:25.

are, and change can be good or disastrous. I'm worried that it's

:22:26.:22:28.

easy in the world of diplomacy and in them -- for the leadership of the

:22:29.:22:35.

United States to break relationships and ruin alliances. These are things

:22:36.:22:39.

that were carefully nurtured. George Schultz, the American Secretary of

:22:40.:22:47.

State under Reagan talked about gardening, the slow, careful

:22:48.:22:50.

creation of a place with bilateral relationships that were blossoming

:22:51.:22:55.

and flowering multilateral relationships that take decades to

:22:56.:22:58.

create, and he will throw them away in a matter of days. The final

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word... I work for George Schultz. He was a Marine who stood up

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America, defended America, who would be in favour of many of the things

:23:09.:23:12.

that Donald Trump and the tramp Administration... Give him a call.

:23:13.:23:18.

His top aide macs that I've spoken to are appalled by Mr Trump's

:23:19.:23:22.

abdication of leadership. He is going to our radically -- he's going

:23:23.:23:30.

to eradicate extremist Islam from the face of the year. Is that

:23:31.:23:35.

realistic? I know people in the national security realm have worked

:23:36.:23:39.

on a plan. They say they will have such a plan in some detail within 90

:23:40.:23:45.

days. Lets hope they succeed. We have run out of time. As a issues.

:23:46.:23:51.

Thank you, both. -- fascinating issues.

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So Theresa May promised a big speech on Brexit, and this week -

:23:55.:23:57.

perhaps against expectation - she delivered, trying to answer

:23:58.:23:59.

claims that the government didn't have a plan with an explicit

:24:00.:24:02.

wish-list of what she hopes to achieve in negotiations with the EU.

:24:03.:24:05.

To her allies it was ambitious, bold, optimistic -

:24:06.:24:07.

to her opponents it was full of contradictions

:24:08.:24:09.

Here's Adam again, with a reminder of the speech and how

:24:10.:24:13.

There are speeches, and there are speeches.

:24:14.:24:18.

Like Theresa May's 12 principles for a Brexit deal leading

:24:19.:24:21.

to the UK fully out of the EU but still friendly in terms

:24:22.:24:24.

This agreement should allow for the freest possible trade

:24:25.:24:28.

in goods and services between Britain and the EU's member states.

:24:29.:24:31.

It should give British companies the maximum

:24:32.:24:36.

operate within European markets and let European businesses do

:24:37.:24:39.

She also said no deal would be better than the wrong deal,

:24:40.:24:47.

We want to test what people think about what she's just said.

:24:48.:25:03.

Do we have any of our future negotiating

:25:04.:25:06.

As the European Parliament voted for its new

:25:07.:25:10.

president, its chief negotiator sounded off.

:25:11.:25:18.

Saying, OK, if our European counterparts don't accept

:25:19.:25:20.

it, we're going to make from Britain a sort

:25:21.:25:23.

of free zone or tax haven, I

:25:24.:25:26.

The Prime Minister of Malta, the country that's assumed the EU's

:25:27.:25:32.

rotating presidency, spoke in sorrow and a bit of anger.

:25:33.:25:35.

We want a fair deal for the United Kingdom, but

:25:36.:25:39.

that deal necessarily needs to be inferior to membership.

:25:40.:25:49.

Next, let's hear from some enthusiastic

:25:50.:25:52.

leavers, like, I don't know, the Daily Mail?

:25:53.:25:57.

The paper lapped it up with this adoring front page.

:25:58.:26:00.

For Brexiteers, it was all manna from heaven.

:26:01.:26:04.

I think today means we are a big step closer to becoming

:26:05.:26:07.

an independent country again, with control of our own laws,

:26:08.:26:09.

I was chuckling at some of it, to be honest, because

:26:10.:26:16.

There were various phrases there which I've used myself again and

:26:17.:26:20.

Do we have any of those so-called Remoaners?

:26:21.:26:24.

There will, at the end of this deal process,

:26:25.:26:26.

so politicians get to vote on the stitch-up, but

:26:27.:26:30.

We take the view as Liberal Democrats that

:26:31.:26:33.

if this process started with democracy last June,

:26:34.:26:35.

We trusted the people with departure, we must trust them

:26:36.:26:39.

Do we have anyone from Labour, or are you all

:26:40.:26:46.

watching it in a small room somewhere?

:26:47.:26:48.

Throughout the speech, there seemed to be an implied threat that

:26:49.:26:55.

somewhere along the line, if all her optimism of a deal

:26:56.:26:58.

with the European Union didn't work, we would move

:26:59.:27:00.

into a low-tax, corporate taxation, bargain-basement economy on the

:27:01.:27:02.

I think she needs to be a bit clearer about what

:27:03.:27:06.

The Labour leader suggested he'd tell

:27:07.:27:13.

his MPs to vote in favour of starting a Brexit process if

:27:14.:27:16.

Parliament was given the choice, sparking a mini pre-revolt among

:27:17.:27:18.

Finally, do we have anyone from big business here?

:27:19.:27:24.

Of course, your all in Davos at the World Economic

:27:25.:27:33.

Clarity, first of all, really codified what many of us have been

:27:34.:27:43.

anticipating since the referendum result,

:27:44.:27:45.

particularly around the

:27:46.:27:46.

I think what we've also seen today is the Government's

:27:47.:27:50.

willingness to put a bit of edge into the negotiating dynamic, and I

:27:51.:27:53.

Trade negotiations are negotiations, and you have to lay out, and you

:27:54.:27:58.

have to be pretty tough to get what you want.

:27:59.:28:00.

Although some business people on the slopes speculated

:28:01.:28:03.

about moving some of their operations out of Brexit Britain.

:28:04.:28:05.

We saw there the instant reaction of Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn,

:28:06.:28:23.

but how will the party respond to the challenge posed by Brexit

:28:24.:28:26.

Well, I'm joined now by the Shadow Home Secretary, Diane Abbott.

:28:27.:28:30.

People know that Ukip and the Tories are for Brexit. The Lib Dems are

:28:31.:28:38.

four remain. What is Labour for? For respecting the result of the

:28:39.:28:43.

referendum. It was a 72% turnout, very high for an election of that

:28:44.:28:48.

nature, and we believe you have to respect that result. You couldn't

:28:49.:28:51.

have a situation where people like Tim Farron are saying to people,

:28:52.:28:55.

millions of people, sorry, you got it wrong, we in London no better.

:28:56.:28:59.

However, how the Tories go forward from here has to be subject to

:29:00.:29:06.

parliamentary scrutiny. Is it Shadow Cabinet policy to vote for the

:29:07.:29:11.

triggering of Article 50? Our policy is not to block Article 50. That is

:29:12.:29:15.

what the leader was saying this morning. So are you for it? Our

:29:16.:29:22.

policy is not to block it. You are talking about voting for it. We

:29:23.:29:27.

don't know what the Supreme Court is going to say, and we don't know what

:29:28.:29:32.

legislation Government will bring forward, and we don't know what

:29:33.:29:35.

amendment we will move, but we're clear that we will not vote to block

:29:36.:29:42.

it. OK, so you won't bow to stop it, but you could abstain? No, what we

:29:43.:29:50.

will do... Either you vote for or against all you abstain. There are

:29:51.:29:54.

too many unanswered questions. For instance, the position of EU

:29:55.:29:58.

migrants working and living in this country. You may not get the answer

:29:59.:30:02.

to that before Article 50 comes before the Commons, so what would

:30:03.:30:06.

you do then? We are giving to amend it. We can only tell you exactly how

:30:07.:30:11.

we will amend it when we understand what sort of legislation the

:30:12.:30:15.

Government is putting forward, and in the course of moving those

:30:16.:30:18.

amendments, we will ask the questions that the people of Britain

:30:19.:30:23.

whether they voted to leave remain want answered.

:30:24.:30:28.

When you come to a collective view, will there be a three line whip? I

:30:29.:30:36.

can't tell you, because we have not seen the government 's legislation.

:30:37.:30:41.

But when you see it, you will come to a collective view. Many regard

:30:42.:30:47.

this as extremely important. Will there be a three line whip on

:30:48.:30:52.

Labour's collective view? Because it is important, we shouldn't get ahead

:30:53.:30:58.

of ourselves. When we see what the Supreme Court says, and crucially,

:30:59.:31:02.

when we see what the government position is, you will hear what the

:31:03.:31:06.

whipping is. Will shadow ministers be able to defy any three line whip

:31:07.:31:13.

on this? That is not normally the case. But they did on an early vote

:31:14.:31:19.

that the government introduced on Article 50. Those who voted against

:31:20.:31:24.

it are still there. In the Blair years, you certainly couldn't defy a

:31:25.:31:29.

three line whip. We will see what happens going forward. I remember

:31:30.:31:35.

when the Tories were hopelessly divided over the EU. All these

:31:36.:31:38.

Maastricht votes and an list arguments. Now it is Labour. Just

:31:39.:31:45.

another symptom of Mr Corbyn's poor leadership. Not at all. Two thirds

:31:46.:31:57.

voted to leave, a third to remain. We are seeking to bring the country

:31:58.:32:02.

and the party together. We will do that by pointing out how disastrous

:32:03.:32:08.

a Tory Brexit would be. Meanwhile, around 80 Labour MPs will defy a

:32:09.:32:17.

three line whip. It's too early to say that. Will you publish what you

:32:18.:32:22.

believe the negotiating goal should be? We are clear on it. We think

:32:23.:32:27.

that the economy, jobs and living standards should be the priority.

:32:28.:32:33.

What Theresa May is saying is that holding her party together is her

:32:34.:32:39.

priority. She is putting party above country. Does Labour think we should

:32:40.:32:45.

remain members of the single market? Ideally, in terms of jobs and the

:32:46.:32:50.

economy, of course. Ritt -ish business thinks that as well. Is

:32:51.:32:55.

Labour policy that we should remain a member of the single market?

:32:56.:32:59.

Labour leaves that jobs and the economy comes first, and if they

:33:00.:33:03.

come first, you would want to remain part of the single market. But to

:33:04.:33:11.

remain a member? Jobs and the economy comes first, and to do that,

:33:12.:33:18.

ideally, guess. So with that, comes free movement of people, the

:33:19.:33:22.

jurisdiction of the European, and a multi-million never shipped thief.

:33:23.:33:28.

Is Labour prepared to pay that? Money is neither here nor there.

:33:29.:33:34.

Because the Tories will be asked to pay a lot of money... The EU has

:33:35.:33:43.

made it clear that you cannot have... I am asking for Labour's

:33:44.:33:50.

position. Our position is rooted in the reality, and the reality is that

:33:51.:33:55.

you cannot have the benefits of the member of the European Union,

:33:56.:33:59.

including being a member of the single market, without

:34:00.:34:02.

responsibility, including free movement of people. Free movement,

:34:03.:34:07.

is remaining under the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice. Is

:34:08.:34:15.

that the Labour position? You've said that Labour wants to remain a

:34:16.:34:20.

member of the single market. That is the price tag that comes with it.

:34:21.:34:24.

Does Labour agree with paying that price tag? We are not pre-empting

:34:25.:34:30.

negotiation. Our goals are protect jobs and the British economy. Is it

:34:31.:34:36.

Labour's position that we remain a member of the customs union? Well,

:34:37.:34:45.

if we don't, I don't see how Theresa May can keep our promises and has

:34:46.:34:55.

unfettered access... You said Labour's position was clear. It is!

:34:56.:35:04.

It is clear that Theresa May... I am not asking about Theresa May. Is it

:35:05.:35:09.

Labour's position to remain a member of the customs union? It is Labour's

:35:10.:35:15.

position to do what is right for British industry. Depending on how

:35:16.:35:19.

the negotiations go, it may prove that coming out of the customs

:35:20.:35:24.

union, as Theresa May has indicated she wants to do, could prove

:35:25.:35:30.

catastrophic, and could actually destroy some of her promises. You do

:35:31.:35:35.

accept that if we are member of the customs union, we cannot do our own

:35:36.:35:43.

free trade deals? What free trade deals are you talking about? The

:35:44.:35:49.

ones that Labour might want to do in the future. First, we have to

:35:50.:35:54.

protect British jobs and British industries. If you are talking about

:35:55.:35:58.

free trade deals with Donald Trump, the danger is that Theresa May will

:35:59.:36:03.

get drawn into a free-trade deal with America that will open up the

:36:04.:36:10.

NHS to American corporate... The cards are in Theresa May's hands. If

:36:11.:36:15.

she takes us out of the single market, if she takes us out of the

:36:16.:36:19.

customs union, we will have to deal with that. How big a crisis for

:36:20.:36:25.

Jeremy Corbyn will be if Labour loses both by-elections in February.

:36:26.:36:31.

I don't believe we will lose both. But if he did? I am not anticipating

:36:32.:36:40.

that. Is Labour lost two seats in a midterm of a Tory government, would

:36:41.:36:44.

that be business as usual? I'm not prepared to see us lose those seats,

:36:45.:36:48.

so I will not talk about something that will not happen. Thank you.

:36:49.:36:51.

You're watching the Sunday Politics.

:36:52.:36:52.

We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now

:36:53.:36:55.

Coming up here in 20 minutes, The Week Ahead,

:36:56.:36:58.

when we'll be talking to Business Minister Margot James

:36:59.:37:00.

about the government's new industrial strategy and that

:37:01.:37:03.

crucial Supreme Court ruling on Brexit.

:37:04.:37:06.

And in the East Midlands: Politics where you are.

:37:07.:37:20.

What impact will leaving the single market have on our region?

:37:21.:37:22.

Jobs at risk in some areas, but elsewhere, businesses

:37:23.:37:24.

We've most definitely improved since Brexit.

:37:25.:37:30.

We've had a 20% increase in orders, with recorded my staff in

:37:31.:37:34.

order that we can deal with the orders, and also we have bigger

:37:35.:37:38.

And it's meant to be a formula for fairer funding, but

:37:39.:37:44.

hundreds of schools across the region are set to lose tens of

:37:45.:37:46.

thousands of pounds, whilst others are set to gain.

:37:47.:37:50.

This is a double whammy for Nottingham's schools and

:37:51.:37:52.

They were already facing difficult times, now they are going

:37:53.:37:59.

My guests this week are Maggie Throup, who's the Conservative MP

:38:00.:38:04.

And Lilian Greenwood, the Labour MP for Nottingham South.

:38:05.:38:08.

First, though, the HS2 road show hit the

:38:09.:38:13.

Plans for the new high-speed route through the

:38:14.:38:17.

region have been on display at villages in Leicestershire, where

:38:18.:38:20.

local people were invited to look at the latest details.

:38:21.:38:23.

Meanwhile, the Transport Secretary launched the

:38:24.:38:29.

search for a company to build trains for the new route this week.

:38:30.:38:32.

Well, you can tell me, what might the organisers

:38:33.:38:37.

Because really not a lot has been decided about HS2 so far.

:38:38.:38:43.

We know that it's now coming to the region,

:38:44.:38:45.

which is really good news for local economy.

:38:46.:38:47.

Virtually, the route is decided, yes.

:38:48.:38:56.

My constituents will be affected and that I'm

:38:57.:39:00.

fighting for really good compensation for both

:39:01.:39:01.

the residents and businesses that are going to lose

:39:02.:39:04.

So, it's early days yet, but we do know

:39:05.:39:07.

it's going to be be a hub in Taunton and most of the route is finalised.

:39:08.:39:11.

There's certainly a lot of concern among those who near to the route

:39:12.:39:14.

Are you worried about the slow progress in this field?

:39:15.:39:23.

I mean, I think it a long process of taking forward a

:39:24.:39:26.

major infrastructure projects of this sort and part of the reason

:39:27.:39:29.

for that is the time it's taken to properly consult

:39:30.:39:32.

and there will be a long period of consultation to

:39:33.:39:34.

ensure that the fine detail is right to take on board the impact

:39:35.:39:37.

on the local area, on the local environment and quite rightly,

:39:38.:39:40.

Maggie and other people will have a part

:39:41.:39:43.

In terms of the contract, which we mentioned, 2.7

:39:44.:39:47.

billion, it's a juicy contract, I mean, one would hope Bombardier

:39:48.:39:59.

and associated firms would get a swing at that.

:40:00.:40:01.

I mean, the whole region is renowned for the rail industry.

:40:02.:40:07.

Whether it's the tracks or the rolling stock, so

:40:08.:40:09.

I think some of our local businesses are going to release either

:40:10.:40:12.

businesses boom as a result of HS2 and I want to

:40:13.:40:15.

encourage them all to be part of that tendering process

:40:16.:40:17.

businesses get a lot of those tenders.

:40:18.:40:20.

And, Lillian, is it important that Bombardier get this

:40:21.:40:23.

contact, given what may or may not be heading the future?

:40:24.:40:25.

It's hugely important for our East Midlands rail

:40:26.:40:27.

industry, which isn't of course just Bombardier.

:40:28.:40:29.

We've got the biggest cluster of rail engineering firms

:40:30.:40:31.

in the world here in the East Midlands.

:40:32.:40:39.

And what I'd like to know from the Government

:40:40.:40:42.

procurement process, are they going to be able to take

:40:43.:40:45.

into account the local economic and social impact

:40:46.:40:47.

Because we don't want what has happened to the

:40:48.:40:50.

Thameslink, where of course that contract was in place with Siemens

:40:51.:40:53.

rather than one of our domestic train builders.

:40:54.:40:55.

And that HS2 road show will be on trail next

:40:56.:40:59.

week and in Long Eaton, too, which might be interesting,

:41:00.:41:01.

given that the route cuts right through the town as we have heard.

:41:02.:41:04.

So, we could see a boost for train makers, but what of

:41:05.:41:07.

What does Theresa May's announcement that we will be leaving

:41:08.:41:12.

the single market mean for our region?

:41:13.:41:14.

There are reports of jobs under threat in some areas, but

:41:15.:41:17.

other companies are reporting that business has boomed following the

:41:18.:41:19.

Here's our political editor Tony Roe.

:41:20.:41:24.

Unemployment remains at an 11 year low.

:41:25.:41:34.

No comfort though for the 280 and the pizza factory in Nottingham,

:41:35.:41:37.

who this week learnt their jobs are to go.

:41:38.:41:39.

It's not clear, but they lost a massive Tesco order.

:41:40.:41:43.

The fall in the pound since the Brexit vote

:41:44.:41:52.

has raised the price of what the import.

:41:53.:41:54.

But for this company, Brexit is good news.

:41:55.:41:56.

A1 Flues from Ollerton, has had the best six months in the

:41:57.:41:59.

company cosmic history, with high profile projects like the shard and

:42:00.:42:02.

We've most definitely improved since Brexit.

:42:03.:42:05.

We've had a 20% increase in orders, we've recruited more staff

:42:06.:42:09.

in order to deal with the orders and also, the bigger orders are

:42:10.:42:12.

And the fall of the pound is good news for exports.

:42:13.:42:15.

We've got a lot more explort interest now.

:42:16.:42:17.

We've got an agent over in the Middle East, so

:42:18.:42:20.

Whether that's anything to do with Brexit,

:42:21.:42:23.

we are not 100% sure, but it

:42:24.:42:25.

As economies grow, our towns and cities

:42:26.:42:38.

Derby is now the marketplace for a aero-engines, trains and cars.

:42:39.:42:42.

This week in an interview with the Financial

:42:43.:42:44.

Times, the Toyota boss said the company, after Theresa May's

:42:45.:42:46.

speech, now has to consider how they can survive in the UK.

:42:47.:42:49.

How's that gone down in Derby, the city which

:42:50.:42:51.

benefits most from Toyota's presence?

:42:52.:42:52.

I think that these people, the likes of Toyota and that,

:42:53.:42:56.

they're probably looking for moving production over to Eastern Europe,

:42:57.:43:00.

When Toyota say things like they've said, does that worry you slightly?

:43:01.:43:07.

It does concern me, but I think there are going to

:43:08.:43:13.

be these symptoms and we are going to have to deal with that.

:43:14.:43:17.

There's going to be some peaks and troughs,

:43:18.:43:18.

but overall, I think we have to give it some time.

:43:19.:43:21.

I wonder if they are trying to find if they could

:43:22.:43:27.

have a hand-out like Nissan, because I am sure they will be

:43:28.:43:30.

persuaded to stop with a little sweetener, but will we be

:43:31.:43:33.

Perhaps that's why Toyota have said what they have.

:43:34.:43:37.

The unions are reassured by commitments to the UK

:43:38.:43:43.

from Toyota and Rolls-Royce, but have many more

:43:44.:43:45.

Rolls-Royce received a significant amount

:43:46.:43:48.

Again, they have committed themselves to the UK,

:43:49.:43:51.

which is good, but we have a question as the trade union that

:43:52.:44:00.

says, you rode your buss around saying you're going to give ?350

:44:01.:44:03.

million every day to the health service, you are going to give

:44:04.:44:06.

17,000 to every farmer and continue to make those payments and

:44:07.:44:09.

yet you don't want to be making all these other

:44:10.:44:11.

The Prime Minister has promised a bold,

:44:12.:44:15.

confident and an open Britain, but some Tory MPs have said if we

:44:16.:44:18.

abandon the single market, there will be economic consequences.

:44:19.:44:20.

The key to the future is going to be how

:44:21.:44:23.

we get access to that single market when we leave the EU.

:44:24.:44:27.

Tony, you been speaking obviously to the

:44:28.:44:34.

What is the feeling, do you think, across

:44:35.:44:37.

the region about this very vital issue of leaving the single market?

:44:38.:44:40.

I think the word that businesses, in particular, use more than any is

:44:41.:44:49.

They don't have that certainty at the moment about what's

:44:50.:44:52.

going to happen and we are just seeing really the effects of the

:44:53.:44:55.

referendum vote more than anything else

:44:56.:45:04.

We have had some figures this week from which show

:45:05.:45:10.

that after a record low, the number of insolvencies of businesses are

:45:11.:45:13.

starting to creep up again, in the East Midlands particularly in

:45:14.:45:16.

manufacturing in the last six months of last year.

:45:17.:45:18.

Maggie Throup, what's your reaction to the speech?

:45:19.:45:20.

It was perhaps harder edged and more pro-hard Brexit than some would

:45:21.:45:23.

for some clarity over the situation and that's what the Prime

:45:24.:45:30.

So many of my businesses that I've been speaking to since the

:45:31.:45:34.

speech were saying, "We have clarity.

:45:35.:45:35.

"We now know where we stand and we can move forward and we can

:45:36.:45:39.

"plan on the grounds that we will be leaving the single market."

:45:40.:45:42.

The single market is the single market for goods,

:45:43.:45:44.

services and the free movement of people.

:45:45.:45:46.

I think the referendum was quite clear that people were against

:45:47.:45:48.

the free movement of people across the European Borders.

:45:49.:45:50.

And that's the thing that the Prime Minister has

:45:51.:45:53.

So, does it seem to you in that speech that

:45:54.:45:59.

that she is putting immigration above the economy?

:46:00.:46:02.

Because that's what voters voted for it in the referendum.

:46:03.:46:05.

But actually being able to control our borders.

:46:06.:46:11.

She now is quite adamant that we will negotiate a

:46:12.:46:16.

free trade agreement with the EU and, let's face it, with countries

:46:17.:46:19.

The message was, we are open for business.

:46:20.:46:22.

Controlling immigration and controlling Borders as one and

:46:23.:46:24.

It's making sure that we have the people here to fill the gap

:46:25.:46:31.

in the skills that are there, but is also important that we look

:46:32.:46:34.

to see what the gaps are and try to work

:46:35.:46:38.

business and schools together so we can fill out the gaps, without

:46:39.:46:41.

Lilian Greenwood, that is absolutely right, we have to be able to control

:46:42.:46:53.

our borders and control who comes in and when?

:46:54.:46:55.

I think the real concern from Theresa May pot speech is the

:46:56.:46:57.

It's a rollback from the Conservatives.

:46:58.:47:01.

In the 2015 general election manifesto, they said yes to

:47:02.:47:03.

It's the biggest trading bloc and the world and if we

:47:04.:47:07.

are outside the single market and we are in successful

:47:08.:47:09.

in negotiating that kind of free trade arrangement

:47:10.:47:13.

with the EU, then we will face a huge tariffs on our goods and that

:47:14.:47:17.

could be hugely damaging, not just to our manufacturers, but other

:47:18.:47:20.

industries within the East Midlands that we rely on.

:47:21.:47:27.

But isn't the Labour Party really playing catch up on

:47:28.:47:29.

Your party has never really understood

:47:30.:47:38.

voters' concerns about immigration and would rather not talk about it

:47:39.:47:40.

I completely understand voters' concerns about the impact it

:47:41.:47:47.

potentially has on jobs and services and that's why it was a big mistake

:47:48.:47:50.

by the Conservatives to scrap the migration

:47:51.:47:52.

impact fund, but there are

:47:53.:47:53.

We see that certainly very clearly in Nottingham.

:47:54.:47:56.

One of our biggest export's higher education.

:47:57.:47:58.

If we are not able to bring in the brightest in the past,

:47:59.:48:01.

whether its students or staff, that could be an

:48:02.:48:03.

absolute disaster for Nottingham's economy.

:48:04.:48:04.

The education select committee took evidence last week

:48:05.:48:08.

around the impact of Brexit on the EU and the Vice Chancellor

:48:09.:48:10.

of Oxford Brookes University said that it

:48:11.:48:12.

would be an absolute disaster if we are not able to access

:48:13.:48:15.

the brightest and the best from across the EU.

:48:16.:48:17.

I don't think that is what the Prime Minister's saying, though.

:48:18.:48:20.

She's actually saying that we could control our borders, not to close

:48:21.:48:23.

I think there's a huge difference there.

:48:24.:48:27.

But we know that if we make it very difficult for

:48:28.:48:30.

people to come here and if you tighten up these

:48:31.:48:37.

visa immigration rules, it prevents students and

:48:38.:48:38.

We've seen that already happened when it comes

:48:39.:48:41.

It will have a huge impact if we want to keep the

:48:42.:48:45.

quality of our research universities.

:48:46.:48:46.

OK, we will have to leave it there for the moment.

:48:47.:48:49.

But I suppose an example of how it the

:48:50.:48:53.

politics and the economics all become intermingled, but this is a

:48:54.:48:55.

particularly interesting aspect in this region,

:48:56.:49:02.

because although voting heavily for Brexit in this region, some of

:49:03.:49:05.

our politicians here have been leading the campaign for a softer

:49:06.:49:08.

In the Commons this week two of our MPs were keen for the Prime

:49:09.:49:16.

Minister to consult more with Parliament.

:49:17.:49:17.

Before Article 50 is triggered, would she please consider

:49:18.:49:22.

at least publishing all those 12 objectives in a White Paper so that

:49:23.:49:25.

we can debate them here in this place on behalf of all our

:49:26.:49:28.

Could she clarify whether she anticipates this house

:49:29.:49:35.

having an opportunity to vote its approval for those

:49:36.:49:38.

policies earlier than two years away, when the whole

:49:39.:49:40.

Tony, as we were seeing, many of our MPs are among the most prominent

:49:41.:49:45.

campaigners for a so-called softer Brexit.

:49:46.:49:49.

So, what was their mood after Theresa May's speech?

:49:50.:49:53.

We saw Ken Clarke there and Ken Clarke, if

:49:54.:49:55.

there is any MP in East Midlands who's going to vote against Article

:49:56.:50:00.

He made it plain after the speech from Theresa May this week that he

:50:01.:50:06.

didn't think she'd said anything new at all.

:50:07.:50:08.

On the other hand, we have Nicky Morgan and Anna Soubry who

:50:09.:50:11.

are both very vocal in wanting to have access to the single market

:50:12.:50:14.

and free movement of labour, let's not forget.

:50:15.:50:17.

And they seem, after the speech, to soften their stance

:50:18.:50:20.

somewhat on to say that the 12 point plan had

:50:21.:50:22.

some positive points in the

:50:23.:50:26.

wanted to take those positive points away

:50:27.:50:29.

future and try to get that access to the single market.

:50:30.:50:33.

It's interesting, isn't it, Maggie, if we're talking

:50:34.:50:35.

about splits within the Labour Party on this, but there are certainly

:50:36.:50:38.

splits within the Conservative Party in terms of the soft Brexiteers and

:50:39.:50:41.

I think we have even stopped disagreeing now.

:50:42.:50:46.

My colleagues in the chamber during the week, obviously, they do

:50:47.:50:55.

like what the Prime Minister's saying.

:50:56.:50:58.

I think one of the messages from Theresa was actually building

:50:59.:51:01.

consensus and she seems to be doing that.

:51:02.:51:03.

Yeah, Anna Soubry did say that she didn't think

:51:04.:51:07.

it was a hard Brexit, what the Prime Minister was saying.

:51:08.:51:10.

Well, maybe more nuanced than some observers

:51:11.:51:11.

I mean, Ken Clarke is going to vote against triggering Article

:51:12.:51:15.

It looks like it and Ken has a lot of experience.

:51:16.:51:19.

I wouldn't want to say anything against Ken.

:51:20.:51:21.

He's a great politician and he has some

:51:22.:51:23.

great work and he really believes in what he's doing at the moment.

:51:24.:51:36.

OK, Lilian Greenwood, where do you stand on Article 50?

:51:37.:51:39.

Because it has been some confusion about whether Labour MPs

:51:40.:51:41.

are going to be whipped into triggering it, approvingly

:51:42.:51:43.

triggering of it and, well, are they going to be whipped?

:51:44.:51:46.

Well, I think all Labour MPs, you know, we saw the

:51:47.:51:50.

result of the referendum and we want to respect the choice

:51:51.:51:53.

of the British people, but equally, having seen

:51:54.:51:55.

what Theresa May has come out with, it's very concerning and I want to

:51:56.:52:10.

see the motion in what amendments are put down to it,

:52:11.:52:12.

that my constituents didn't vote for is to worse off.

:52:13.:52:16.

And while she may be aiming for a soft Brexit, she

:52:17.:52:18.

says she wants to have free trade with Europe,

:52:19.:52:20.

she wants to avoid some of the bureaucracy that would come

:52:21.:52:23.

from being outside the customs union, there is absolutely no

:52:24.:52:25.

guarantee that she's going to be able to negotiate those things.

:52:26.:52:28.

Can I just ask you, will you vote to trigger Article 50?

:52:29.:52:31.

Well, I'm going to wait and see with the motion says

:52:32.:52:34.

I'm very conscious of what my constituents think.

:52:35.:52:37.

I want to be talking to them and consulting with

:52:38.:52:39.

them and I'm very concerned about the future for the economy, for

:52:40.:52:42.

workers' rights, for environmental protections and how those might be

:52:43.:52:44.

thrown away, giving Theresa May's negotiating stance.

:52:45.:52:46.

And just briefly, Maggie, do you think there

:52:47.:52:48.

will be a timely vote or will it be a piecemeal vote early on and you

:52:49.:52:52.

won't get an actual vote on the deal as it is decided on?

:52:53.:52:55.

The Prime Minister in her speech said that

:52:56.:52:58.

there will be a vote in both houses of Parliament about the final deal.

:52:59.:53:01.

OK, for now, thank you very much indeed.

:53:02.:53:05.

Next, many schools in a region are counting

:53:06.:53:07.

Next, many schools in a region are counting the cost of a proposed

:53:08.:53:10.

The idea is to iron out historical differences, which

:53:11.:53:13.

have seen some areas get far more per pupil than others.

:53:14.:53:19.

The Government says that more half of the country's

:53:20.:53:21.

schools will see an increase, but in one of our cities, almost every

:53:22.:53:24.

Before school starts, a chance to get food for the brain.

:53:25.:53:31.

These breakfast clubs now operate at every primary school in

:53:32.:53:33.

You're allowed to see your friends and it's really nice to

:53:34.:53:44.

I like it, because it's fun and I get to talk

:53:45.:53:47.

to my friends and it gets me ready for the day.

:53:48.:53:50.

I can do different activities, like colouring, playing

:53:51.:53:52.

In Nottingham city, 85 out of 87 schools will be

:53:53.:53:55.

worse off because of the new funding formula.

:53:56.:54:02.

Here, they will have to save ?48,000 - the equivalent

:54:03.:54:05.

Extracurricular activities like these Breakfast club's

:54:06.:54:07.

When you're organising the school budget, you look at how you can

:54:08.:54:12.

organise that funding right across and making sure that you're

:54:13.:54:14.

providing services and opportunities for children.

:54:15.:54:19.

If we have to reduce the office numbers and the admin,

:54:20.:54:24.

actually, then we might need to pass that cost

:54:25.:54:26.

Whilst city schools seem to be the real losers from the funding

:54:27.:54:32.

formula, many headteachers in rural areas will have more money to play

:54:33.:54:34.

Although, in Nottinghamshire County, most schools will still have

:54:35.:54:38.

Unions say that when inflation is taken into

:54:39.:54:41.

account, the overwhelming majority are facing deep cuts.

:54:42.:54:43.

Hardly robbing from the rich to give to the poor.

:54:44.:54:45.

The problem is that there is money being diverted to some of the

:54:46.:54:48.

wealthiest parts of the country, in places like Buckinghamshire and

:54:49.:54:51.

Cambridgeshire, from both Nottingham city

:54:52.:54:52.

and Nottinghamshire County and

:54:53.:54:53.

Ministers insist funding for schools is at

:54:54.:55:05.

a record high and the new formula will end

:55:06.:55:07.

the postcode lottery of the

:55:08.:55:09.

Ultimately though, it's up to the schools themselves to make

:55:10.:55:12.

Now, Lilian Greenwood, the Government obviously would be in

:55:13.:55:15.

touch with the Department and in the adamant that

:55:16.:55:17.

overall, Nottingham and

:55:18.:55:19.

Nottinghamshire will see an increase in funding.

:55:20.:55:20.

0.3% in Nottingham and 1.8% for Nottinghamshire.

:55:21.:55:22.

Every single school in my constituency is going

:55:23.:55:26.

Not just as a result of the funding formula, which takes

:55:27.:55:30.

money away from Nottingham schools, but as a result of the flat funding,

:55:31.:55:32.

which means real-time cuts of 8% for schools.

:55:33.:55:35.

Every school practically across the country is a loser and

:55:36.:55:37.

Nottingham city schools are some of the worst hit.

:55:38.:55:40.

But overall, the DFE said Nottingham will still be one of

:55:41.:55:43.

the highest funded areas in the county, no doubt

:55:44.:55:45.

because there may be special issues, but that's the bear

:55:46.:55:48.

Well, I think if you went to any school in my

:55:49.:56:06.

constituency and said, you've got to make savings, you've got to cut

:56:07.:56:09.

further, they are going to have to cut into...

:56:10.:56:11.

If it's not teachers, to be teaching assistants or other

:56:12.:56:13.

It's the sort of extracurricular activities that we

:56:14.:56:16.

They are working hard to try to make sure

:56:17.:56:19.

that young people in my city get the best possible start

:56:20.:56:22.

and if they have fewer resources, that's going to be

:56:23.:56:25.

The truth is, the Government need to be more

:56:26.:56:28.

funding into education to ensure that we can really deliver on the

:56:29.:56:31.

sort of high-quality learning children need.

:56:32.:56:32.

Maggie Throup, why do some schools apparently have to take a

:56:33.:56:35.

cut in order to improve funding for others?

:56:36.:56:37.

We hear that Nottingham's cuts will give more money to schools

:56:38.:56:39.

in places like Buckinghamshire and Oxfordshire.

:56:40.:56:51.

I think what this is doing is getting rid of the

:56:52.:56:53.

Because at the moment, the inner city schools tend

:56:54.:56:56.

to get more funding in schools in rural areas.

:56:57.:56:59.

There are a lot of areas of deprivation in the rule

:57:00.:57:03.

economy as well, so you can't just have this postcode blanket approach.

:57:04.:57:06.

You need to have a look at how the money will actually follow

:57:07.:57:09.

the pupil and for me, that's the most important thing.

:57:10.:57:11.

Just talking about the Breakfast Club, the new proposed

:57:12.:57:14.

levy on the sugary drinks industry is actually going to...

:57:15.:57:16.

Some of that is going to go to more breakfast

:57:17.:57:18.

clubs, which I think is really important.

:57:19.:57:20.

I think the other thing as well, the proposals for the funding

:57:21.:57:23.

formula is still out to consultation.

:57:24.:57:24.

So people can contribute to that consultation and

:57:25.:57:26.

It's open until towards the end of March, so nothing is finalised yet.

:57:27.:57:34.

Well, that's a very good point and also, Lilian Greenwood, this

:57:35.:57:39.

You cannot blame the Government for trying to do

:57:40.:57:45.

something about the inequality that previously existed.

:57:46.:57:47.

I don't think it's wrong to look to have a

:57:48.:57:49.

fairer funding formula, but you can't do that

:57:50.:57:51.

without putting more money into the system.

:57:52.:57:53.

We know that schools are already struggling with

:57:54.:57:55.

pay rises, extra national insurance contributions, extra money to be

:57:56.:57:57.

They've not had any money from the Government

:57:58.:58:00.

to help them cope with those extra costs that they faced and therefore,

:58:01.:58:03.

it would mean cuts to the quality of education they are able to provide.

:58:04.:58:07.

And the question I asked Maggie is, you know,

:58:08.:58:09.

one of your schools is, I think it

:58:10.:58:13.

is the largest loser in the whole of Derbyshire.

:58:14.:58:15.

I don't know what you're going to say to them.

:58:16.:58:19.

Well, I think it's how you actually spend that

:58:20.:58:27.

The academy you mentioned has got a fantastic new headteacher.

:58:28.:58:36.

I know that the ethos she brings to the school

:58:37.:58:39.

It's the ethos of the school that's important.

:58:40.:58:42.

It's time now for a round-up of some of the other

:58:43.:58:48.

political stories from the East Midlands this week.

:58:49.:58:50.

Parents in Derby want the city's council to bring a

:58:51.:59:03.

long-running strike by school teaching assistants to an end.

:59:04.:59:05.

The ongoing dispute with the City Council

:59:06.:59:07.

over cuts in pay of up to

:59:08.:59:09.

?6,000 a year has seen them take action every day this week.

:59:10.:59:12.

Hospital managers say they are still not in a

:59:13.:59:14.

position to reopen Grantham's accident

:59:15.:59:15.

The department has been shut between 6:30pm and 9am since last

:59:16.:59:20.

The family of the former Leicester West

:59:21.:59:23.

MP Lord Janner has asked to be allowed to take part in the enquiry

:59:24.:59:26.

The Labour peer who died in 2015 is alleged to

:59:27.:59:30.

have abused youngsters over a 30 year period.

:59:31.:59:32.

His family have always strongly denied the claims.

:59:33.:59:33.

Nottingham is considering a bid to become the European capital of

:59:34.:59:36.

In the past, the title has brought an economic boost to cities

:59:37.:59:51.

The announcement on whether the City Council is applying will be

:59:52.:59:55.

And there is another busy week to come.

:59:56.:59:58.

That is the Sunday Politics in the East Midlands.

:59:59.:00:00.

My thanks to Maggie Throup and Lilian Greenwood.

:00:01.:00:02.

have to do this. Thank you to you both.

:00:03.:00:12.

What exactly is the government's industrial strategy?

:00:13.:00:22.

Will ministers lose their supreme court battle over Brexit, and,

:00:23.:00:26.

Well, tomorrow Theresa May is launching the government's

:00:27.:00:38.

industrial strategy - and to talk about that we're joined

:00:39.:00:42.

by the Business Minister, Margot James - welcome to the show.

:00:43.:00:49.

When you look at what has already been released in advance of the

:00:50.:00:57.

Prime Minister's statement, it was embargoed for last night, it's not

:00:58.:01:02.

really an industrial strategy, it's just another skills strategy, of

:01:03.:01:06.

which we have had about six since the war, and our skills training is

:01:07.:01:13.

among the worst in Western Europe? There will be plenty more to be

:01:14.:01:18.

announced tomorrow in what is really a discussion document in the

:01:19.:01:21.

preparation of an industrial strategy which we intend to launch

:01:22.:01:26.

properly later in the year. Let's look at skills. You are allocating

:01:27.:01:34.

117 of funding to establish institutes of technology. How many?

:01:35.:01:40.

The exact number is to be agreed, but the spend is there, and it will

:01:41.:01:46.

be on top of what we are doing to the university, technical

:01:47.:01:49.

colleges... How many were lit bio create? We don't know exactly, but

:01:50.:01:56.

we want to put them in areas where young people are performing under

:01:57.:01:59.

the national average. But if you don't know how many, what is the

:02:00.:02:07.

basis of 170 million? That is the amount the Treasury have released.

:02:08.:02:10.

The something that is very important, we are agreed we need to

:02:11.:02:15.

devote more resources to vocational training and get it on a par with

:02:16.:02:21.

academic qualifications. I looked on the website of my old university,

:02:22.:02:27.

the University of Glasgow, the Russell group universities. Its

:02:28.:02:32.

spending budget every year is over 600 million. That's one University.

:02:33.:02:40.

And yet you have a mere 170 million foreign unspecified number of

:02:41.:02:45.

institutes of technology. It hasn't got equality with the academics? You

:02:46.:02:50.

have to remember that just as you have quoted figures from Glasgow

:02:51.:02:54.

University there are further education colleges all over the

:02:55.:02:59.

country. The government is already spending on 16 to 19-year-olds. But

:03:00.:03:07.

also, we are going to be adding... This is new money that is all to the

:03:08.:03:12.

good, because we are already spending a lot. We have already

:03:13.:03:17.

created 2 million more apprentices since 2010. That many are not in

:03:18.:03:22.

what we would call the stem skills, and a lot come nowhere near what the

:03:23.:03:27.

Dutch, Germans and Austrians would have. I'm not clear how another 170

:03:28.:03:33.

million would do. You said it is more than skills. In what way is

:03:34.:03:37.

this industrial strategy different from what Mr Cameron and Mr Osborne

:03:38.:03:49.

did before? It's different because it is involving every single

:03:50.:03:51.

government department, and bringing together everything that government

:03:52.:03:53.

does in a bid to make Britain more competitive as it disengages from

:03:54.:03:56.

the European Union. That is what the last Labour government did. They

:03:57.:04:02.

will much more targeted interventions. Under the Labour

:04:03.:04:06.

government, the auto industry got some benefit. A few more sectors

:04:07.:04:11.

were broached under the coalition government. This is all about

:04:12.:04:16.

communities all over the country, some of whom have fallen behind in

:04:17.:04:20.

terms of wage growth and good jobs. The Prime Minister has already

:04:21.:04:26.

announced 2 billion as a research and development priority in specific

:04:27.:04:33.

technologies, robotics, artificial intelligence, medical technology,

:04:34.:04:37.

satellites... So you are doing what has been done before. There is

:04:38.:04:43.

nothing new about this. Wait until tomorrow, because there will be some

:04:44.:04:47.

new strands emerging. It is the beginning of the dialogue with

:04:48.:04:51.

industry and with workers, and the responses will be invited up until

:04:52.:04:57.

April. That will inform a wider strategy that goes beyond skills. I

:04:58.:05:03.

have moved on to beyond them. I'm slightly puzzled as to how the

:05:04.:05:08.

government knows where to invest in robotics, when it can't even provide

:05:09.:05:13.

the NHS with a decent IT system. Discuss. I have to say I find it

:05:14.:05:18.

bizarre that the government is making an announcement about an

:05:19.:05:21.

amount of money and don't know where it's going. This is typical of all

:05:22.:05:26.

governments over all political shoes, which is total disregard for

:05:27.:05:32.

technical education, so different from Germany, who actually invest in

:05:33.:05:40.

the technological side. Germany has a long history. We want to emulate

:05:41.:05:47.

some of the best of what German companies do. Siemens sponsor

:05:48.:05:51.

primary schools, for example. We want to get a dialogue on with

:05:52.:05:57.

business. We don't want to decide where this money is going. By the

:05:58.:06:02.

way, it was 4.7 billion that the government has agreed to invest in

:06:03.:06:08.

science and research, which is the most significant increase in

:06:09.:06:11.

decades. Can you remind us what happened in Northern Ireland, when

:06:12.:06:16.

the government invested money in state-of-the-art technology for

:06:17.:06:19.

energy? No one needs to be reminded of that, and that is not what we are

:06:20.:06:26.

doing. We are inviting business and industry to advise where that money

:06:27.:06:32.

is best spent. That's very different from government deciding that a

:06:33.:06:37.

particular technology is for the future. The government's chief

:06:38.:06:42.

scientific adviser has determined that we will invest a huge amount in

:06:43.:06:48.

battery technology, which should benefit the electric car industry,

:06:49.:06:53.

and... This is taxpayers' money. Who gets it? Ultimately, business will

:06:54.:06:59.

get it, but often only when there is a considerable amount of private

:07:00.:07:05.

sector finance also drawn in. But who is held to account? Various

:07:06.:07:13.

government departments at local authorities will hold this list to

:07:14.:07:17.

account. A lot of it is about releasing private capital as well.

:07:18.:07:24.

Thank you very much. This week, the Supreme Court, I think we know the

:07:25.:07:31.

ruling is coming on Tuesday. And the expectation is that the judges will

:07:32.:07:35.

say Parliament will have to vote to trigger. Is this all much ado about

:07:36.:07:40.

nothing? Parliament will vote to trigger, and the government will win

:07:41.:07:44.

in the Lords and the Commons by substantial majorities, and it will

:07:45.:07:48.

be triggered? Completely. We've known that. Parliament is voted.

:07:49.:07:53.

Everyone is pretty confident that the Supreme Court will uphold the

:07:54.:07:57.

High Court's decision and say it has to go to MPs. There will be a bit of

:07:58.:08:06.

toing and froing among MPs on amendments. You heard Diane Abbott's

:08:07.:08:12.

slightly car crash interview there. The Lib Dems may throw something in,

:08:13.:08:15.

but we will trigger Article 50 by the end of March. If it also says

:08:16.:08:23.

that the roll of Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast should be picked up,

:08:24.:08:28.

that could complicate matters. Absolutely. That could delay the

:08:29.:08:32.

planned triggering of Article 50 before the end of March. Not what

:08:33.:08:36.

they say about the Westminster Parliament, because it is clear that

:08:37.:08:41.

it was. I never understood the furore about that original judgment,

:08:42.:08:46.

because every MP made it clear they wouldn't block it. Even though Diane

:08:47.:08:51.

Abbott was evasive on several fronts, she said they wouldn't block

:08:52.:08:56.

it. You are right, if they give a vote, or give some authorisation for

:08:57.:09:00.

the Scottish Parliament and other devolved assemblies, that might

:09:01.:09:05.

delay the whole sequence. That is the only significant thing to watch

:09:06.:09:11.

out for. Watch out on Tuesday. Mrs May goes to Washington. It will be

:09:12.:09:16.

another movie in the making! I would suggest that she has a tricky line

:09:17.:09:21.

to follow. She has got to be seen to be taking advantage of the fact that

:09:22.:09:26.

there is a very pro-British, pro-Brexit president in the Oval

:09:27.:09:31.

Office, who I am told is prepared to expend political capital on this.

:09:32.:09:35.

But on the other hand, to make sure that she is not what we used to call

:09:36.:09:48.

Mr Blair, George Bush's poodle. It is very difficult, and who would not

:09:49.:09:52.

want to be a fly on the wall in that meeting! I can't think of anyone in

:09:53.:09:55.

the world who would despise Mr Trump more than Mrs May, and for him, he

:09:56.:10:00.

dislikes any woman who does not look like a supermodel, no disrespected

:10:01.:10:11.

Mrs May. Most of it is actually anti-EU, and I think we should

:10:12.:10:14.

capitalise it. Let's get the Queen to earn her money, roll out the red

:10:15.:10:20.

carpet, invite him to dinner, spend the night, what ever we need...

:10:21.:10:27.

Trump at Balmoral! Here is the issue, because the agenda is, as we

:10:28.:10:32.

heard from Ted Malloch earlier, that this is not an administration that

:10:33.:10:37.

has much time for the EU, EU integration or Germany. I think

:10:38.:10:40.

Germany will be the second biggest loser to begin with. They will not

:10:41.:10:46.

even give a date for Angela Merkel to meet the president. This is an

:10:47.:10:54.

opportunity for Mrs May... It is a huge. It could sideline talks of the

:10:55.:11:02.

punishment beating from Germany. The Trump presidency has completely

:11:03.:11:08.

changed the field on Brexit. Along came Donald Trump, and Theresa May

:11:09.:11:12.

has this incredible opportunity here. Not of her making, but she has

:11:13.:11:18.

played her cards well. To an officially be the EU emissary to

:11:19.:11:24.

Washington, to get some sort of broker going. That gives us huge

:11:25.:11:29.

extra leveraged in the Brexit negotiations. People around the

:11:30.:11:33.

world think Germany as a currency manipulator, that it is benefiting

:11:34.:11:37.

from an underpriced euro, hence the huge surplus it runs of America, and

:11:38.:11:41.

they think it is disgraceful that a country that runs a massive budget

:11:42.:11:47.

surplus spends only 1.2% of its GDP on defence, and America runs a

:11:48.:11:52.

massive deficit and needs to spend a lot more. He's going for Germany.

:11:53.:11:58.

And what a massive shift. I think Obama was quite open, in a farewell

:11:59.:12:03.

interview, that he felt closer to Merkel than any other European

:12:04.:12:08.

leader. And Jamie kind of reflected that in our discussion. Yes, that's

:12:09.:12:15.

very interesting discussion. I think she was the last person he spoke to

:12:16.:12:20.

in the White House, Obama. And now you are getting the onslaught from

:12:21.:12:26.

Trump. This Thatcher- Reagan imagery is dangerous, though. Blair was

:12:27.:12:31.

hypnotised by it and was too scared to criticise Bush, because he wanted

:12:32.:12:35.

to be seen in that light, and we know where that led. Cameron

:12:36.:12:41.

similarly with Obama, which presented him with problems, as

:12:42.:12:44.

Obama didn't regard him as his number one pin up in Europe. I would

:12:45.:12:51.

put a note of caution in there about the Thatcher - Reagan parallel.

:12:52.:12:56.

Everything Trump is doing now is different from before, so Mrs May

:12:57.:13:01.

should not have any of these previous relationships in her mind.

:13:02.:13:07.

That is not entirely true. Donald Trump aches to be the new Ronald

:13:08.:13:14.

Reagan. He may be impeached first! He sees her as the new Margaret

:13:15.:13:18.

Thatcher, and that may her leveraged with him. Thank you.

:13:19.:13:26.

We'll be back here at the same time next week, and you can catch up

:13:27.:13:31.

on all the latest political news on the Daily Politics,

:13:32.:13:33.

In the meantime, remember - if it's Sunday,

:13:34.:13:37.

It's just pain, but it doesn't feel like pain,

:13:38.:14:15.

it feels much more violent, dark and exciting.

:14:16.:14:19.

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