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It's Sunday morning, and this is the Sunday Politics.
Theresa May will be the first foreign leader to visit US
President Donald Trump this week - she's promised to hold "very
frank" conversations with the new and controversial
Speaking of the 45th President of America,
we'll be looking at what the Trump presidency could hold
in store for Britain and the rest of the world.
And with the Supreme Court expected to say that Parliament should
have a vote before the Brexit process begins, we'll ask
And in the East Midlands: what Labour will do next.
What impact will leaving the single market have on businesses here?
And a fairer funding formula that leaves
And to talk about all of that and more, I'm joined by three
journalists who, in an era of so-called fake news, can be
relied upon for their accuracy, their impartiality -
and their willingness to come to the studio
It's Steve Richards, Julia Hartley-Brewer
and Tom Newton Dunn, and during the programme they'll be
tweeting as often as the 45th President of the USA in the middle
So - the Prime Minister has been appearing on the BBC this morning.
She was mostly talking about Donald Trump and Brexit,
but she was also asked about a story on the front of this
It's reported that an unarmed Trident missile test fired
from the submarine HMS Vengeance near the Florida coast in June
The paper says the incident took place weeks before a crucial Commons
Well, let's have listen to Theresa May talking
The issue that we were talking about in the House of Commons
It was about whether or not we should renew Trident,
whether we should look to the future and have a replacement Trident.
That's what we were talking about in the House of Commons.
That's what the House of Commons voted for.
He doesn't want to defend our country with an independent
There are tests that take place all the time, regularly,
What we were talking about in that debate that took place...
I'm not going to get an answer to this.
Tom, it was clear this was going to come up this morning. It is on the
front page of the Sunday Times. It would seem to me the Prime Minister
wasn't properly briefed on how to reply. I think she probably was, but
the Prime Minister we now have doesn't necessarily answer all
questions in the straightest way. She didn't answer that one and all.
Unlike previous ones? She made it quite clear she was briefed. You
read between the Theresa May lines. By simply not answering Andrew Marr
four times, it is obvious she knew, and that she knew before she went
into the House of Commons and urged everyone to renew the ?40 billion
replacement programme. Of course it is an embarrassment, but does it
have political legs? I don't think so. She didn't mislead the Commons.
If she wanted to close it down, the answer should have been, these are
matters of national security. There's nothing more important in
that than our nuclear deterrent. I'm not prepared to talk about testing.
End of. But she didn't. Maybe you should be briefing her. That's a
good answer. She is an interesting interviewee. She shows it when she
is nervous. She was transparently uneasy answering those questions,
and the fact she didn't answer it definitively suggests she did know
and didn't want to say it, and she answered awkwardly. But how wider
point, that the House of Commons voted for the renewal of Trident,
suggests to me that in the broader sweep of things, this will not run,
because if there was another vote, I would suggest she'd win it again.
But it is an embarrassment and she handled it with a transparent
awkwardness. She said that the tests go on all the time, but not of the
missiles. Does it not show that when the Prime Minister leaves her
comfort zone of Home Office affairs or related matters, she often
struggles. We've seen it under questioning from Mr Corbyn even, and
we saw it again today. Absolutely. Tests of various aspects of the
missiles go on all the time, but there's only been five since 2000.
What you described wouldn't have worked, because in previous tests
they have always been very public about it. Look how well our missiles
work! She may not have misled Parliament, but she may not have
known about it. If she didn't know, does Michael Fallon still have a job
on Monday? Should Parliament know about a test that doesn't work? Some
would say absolutely not. Our deterrent is there to deter people
from attacking us. If they know that we are hitting the United States by
mistake rather than the Atlantic Ocean, then... There is such a thing
as national security, and telling all the bad guys about where we are
going wrong may not be a good idea. It was her first statement as Prime
Minister to put her case for renewal, to have the vote on
Trident, and in that context, it is significant not to say anything. If
anyone knows where the missile landed, give us a call!
So Donald Trump's inauguration day closed with him dancing
to Frank Sinatra's My Way, and whatever your view on the 45th
President of the United States he certainly did do it his way.
Not for him the idealistic call for national unity -
instead he used Friday's inaugural address to launch a blistering
attack on the dark state of the nation and the political
class, and to promise to take his uncompromising approach
from the campaign trail to the White House.
Here's Adam Fleming, with a reminder of how
First, dropping by for a cup of tea and a slightly awkward exchange
Then, friends, foes and predecessors watched
I, Donald John Trump, do solemnly swear...
The crowds seemed smaller than previous inaugurations,
the speech tougher then any previous incoming president.
From this day forth, it's going to be only America first.
In the meantime, there were sporadic protests in Washington, DC.
Opponents made their voices heard around the world too.
The President, who'd criticised the work of
the intelligence agencies, fitted in a visit to the CIA.
There is nobody that feels stronger about the intelligence community
And, back at the office, in the dark, a signature signalled
the end of the Obama era and the dawn of Trump.
So, as you heard there, President Trump used his
inauguration to repeat his campaign promise to put "America first"
in all his decisions, and offered some hints of what to expect
He talked of in America in carnage, to be rebuilt by American hands and
American Labour. President Trump has already started to dismantle key
parts of the Obama Legacy, including the unwinding of the affordable care
act, and the siding of the climate action plan to tackle global
warning. Little to say about foreign policy, but promised to eradicate
Islamic terrorism from the face of the Earth, insisting he would
restore the US military to unquestioning dominance. He also
said the US would develop a state missile defence system to deal with
threats he sees from Iran and North Korea. In a statement that painted a
bleak picture of the country he now runs, he said his would be a law and
order Administration, and he would keep the innocents safe by building
the border war with Mexico. One thing he didn't mention, for the
first time ever, there is a Eurosceptic in the oval office, who
is also an enthusiast for Brexit. We're joined now by Ted Malloch -
he's a Trump supporter who's been tipped as the president's
choice for US ambassador to the EU, and he's
just flown back from Washington. And by James Rubin -
he's a democrat who served Let's start with that last point I
made in the voice over there. We now have a Eurosceptic in the oval
office. He is pro-Brexit and not keen on further European Union
integration. What are the implications of that? First of all,
a renewal of the US- UK special relationship. You see the Prime
Minister already going to build and rebuild this relationship. Already,
the bust of Winston Churchill is back in the oval office.
Interestingly, Martin Luther King's bust is also there, so there is an
act of unity in that first movement of dusts. Donald Trump will be
oriented between bilateral relationships and not multilateral
or supernatural. Supranational full. What are the implications of someone
in the White House now not believing in it? I think we are present in the
unravelling of America's leadership of the West. There is now a thing
called the west that America has led since the end of World War II,
creating supranational - we just heard supernatural! These
institutions were created. With American leadership, the world was
at peace in Europe, and the world grew increasingly democratic and
prosperous. Wars were averted that could be extremely costly. When
something works in diplomacy, you don't really understand what the
consequences could have been. I think we've got complacent. The new
president is taking advantage of that. It is a terrible tragedy that
so many in the West take for granted the successful leadership and
institutions we have built. You could argue, as James Rubin has
argued in some articles, that... Will Mr Trump's America be more
involved in the world than the Obama won? Or will it continue the process
with running shoes on that began with Mr Obama? President Obama
stepped back from American leadership. He withdrew from the
world. He had a horrendous eight years in office, and American powers
have diminished everywhere in the world, not just in Europe. That
power will reassert. The focus will be on America first, but there are
foreign interests around the world... How does it reassert itself
around the world? I think the institutions will be recreated. Some
may be taken down. There could be some new ones. I think Nato itself,
and certainly the Defence Secretary will have discussions with Donald
Trump about how Nato can be reshaped, and maybe there will be
more burden sharing. That is an important thing for him. You are
tipped to be the US ambassador to Brussels, to the EU, and we are
still waiting to hear if that will happen. Is it true to say that Mr
Trump does not believe in EU integration? I think you made that
clear in the speech. He talked about supranational. He does not believe
in those kinds of organisations. He is investing himself in bilateral
relationships, the first of which will be with the UK. So we have a
president who does not believe in EU integration and has been highly
critical of Nato. Do the people he has appointed to defend, Secretary
of State, national security, do you think that will temper this
anti-NATO wretched? Will he come round to a more pro-NATO situation?
I think those of us who care about America's situation in the world
will come in to miss President Obama a lot. I think the Secretary of
State and the faculty of defence will limit the damage and will urge
him not to take formal steps to unravel this most powerful and most
successful alliance in history, the Nato alliance. But the damage is
already being done. When you are the leader of the West, leadership means
you are persuading, encouraging, bolstering your leadership and these
institutions by the way you speak. Millions, if not hundreds of
millions of people, have now heard the US say that what they care about
is within their borders. What do you say to that? It is such
an overstatement. The point is that Donald Trump is in a Jacksonian
tradition of national populism. He is appealing to the people first.
The other day, I was sitting below this page during the address, and he
said, everyone sitting behind me as part of the problem. Everyone in
front of me, the crowd and the crowd on television, is part of the
solution, so we are giving the Government back to the people. That
emphasis is going to change American life, including American
International relations. It doesn't moving the leak back -- it doesn't
mean we are moving out of Nato, it simply means we will put our
national interests first. There were echoes of Andrew Jackson's
inauguration address of 1820. That night, the Jacksonians trashed the
White House, but Mr Trump's people didn't do that, so there is a
difference there. He also said something else in the address - that
protectionism would lead to prosperity. I would suggest there is
no evidence for that in the post-war world. He talked about protecting
the American worker, American jobs, the American economy. I actually
think that Donald Trump will not turn out to be a protectionist. If
you read the heart of the deal... This is referring to two Republican
senators who introduce massive tariffs in the Hoover
administration. Exactly. If you read The Art Of The Deal, you will see
how Donald Trump deals with individuals and countries. There is
a lot of bluster, positioning, and I think you already see this in
bringing jobs by the United States. Things are going to change. Let's
also deal with this proposition. China is the biggest loser of this
election result. Let me say this: The first time in American history
and American president has set forth his view of the world, and it is a
mercantile view of the world, who makes more money, who gets more
trade, it doesn't look at the shared values, leadership and defends the
world needs. The art of the deal has no application to America's
leadership of the world, that's what we're learning. You can be a great
businessman and make great real estate deals - whether he did not is
debatable - but it has nothing to do with inspiring shared values from
the West. You saying China may lose, because he may pressure them to
reduce their trade deficit with the US. They may or may not. We may both
lose. Right now, his Secretary of State has said, and I think he will
walk this back when he is brief, that they will prevent the Chinese
from entering these islands in the South China Sea. If they were to do
that, it would be a blockade, and there would be a shooting war
between the United States and China, so US - China relations are the most
important bilateral relationship of the United States, and they don't
lend themselves to the bluff and bluster that may have worked when
you are trying to get a big building on second Ave in Manhattan. Is China
the biggest loser? I think the Chinese have a lot to lose. Gigi and
Ping was in Davos this week -- Xi Jin Ping was in Davos.
Is Germany the second biggest loser in the sense that I understand he
hasn't agreed time to see Angela Merkel yet, also that those close to
him believe that Germany is guilty of currency manipulation by adopting
a weak your row instead of the strong Deutschmark, and that that is
why they are running a huge balance of payments surplus with the United
States. American - German relations may not be great. There is a point
of view throughout Europe. You only have to talk to the southern
Europeans about this question. It seems like the euro has been aligned
to benefit Germany. Joe Stiglitz, the famous left of centre Democrat
economist, made the same case in a recent book. In this case, I think
Germany will be put under the spotlight. Angela Merkel has shown
herself to be the most respected and the most successful leader in
Europe. We who care about the West, who care about the shared values of
the West, should pray and hope that she is re-elected. This isn't about
dollars and cents. We're living in a time whether Russian leader has
another country in Europe and for some inexplicable reason, the
American president, who can use his insult diplomacy on everyone,
including Mrs Merkel, the only person he can't seem to find
anything to criticise about is Mr Putin. There are things more
important than the actual details of your currency. There are things like
preventing another war in Europe, preventing a war between the Chinese
and the US. You talk about the Trident missile all morning, nuclear
deterrence is extremely important. It doesn't lend itself to the bluff
and bluster of a real estate deal. I understand all that, but the fact we
are even talking about these things shows the new world we are moving
into. I'd like to get you both to react to this. This is a man that
ended the Bush Dynasty, a man that beat the Clinton machine. In his
inauguration, not only did he not reach out to the Democrats, he
didn't even mention the Republicans. These are changed days for us. They
are, and change can be good or disastrous. I'm worried that it's
easy in the world of diplomacy and in them -- for the leadership of the
United States to break relationships and ruin alliances. These are things
that were carefully nurtured. George Schultz, the American Secretary of
State under Reagan talked about gardening, the slow, careful
creation of a place with bilateral relationships that were blossoming
and flowering multilateral relationships that take decades to
create, and he will throw them away in a matter of days. The final
word... I work for George Schultz. He was a Marine who stood up
America, defended America, who would be in favour of many of the things
that Donald Trump and the tramp Administration... Give him a call.
His top aide macs that I've spoken to are appalled by Mr Trump's
abdication of leadership. He is going to our radically -- he's going
to eradicate extremist Islam from the face of the year. Is that
realistic? I know people in the national security realm have worked
on a plan. They say they will have such a plan in some detail within 90
days. Lets hope they succeed. We have run out of time. As a issues.
Thank you, both. -- fascinating issues.
So Theresa May promised a big speech on Brexit, and this week -
perhaps against expectation - she delivered, trying to answer
claims that the government didn't have a plan with an explicit
wish-list of what she hopes to achieve in negotiations with the EU.
To her allies it was ambitious, bold, optimistic -
to her opponents it was full of contradictions
Here's Adam again, with a reminder of the speech and how
There are speeches, and there are speeches.
Like Theresa May's 12 principles for a Brexit deal leading
to the UK fully out of the EU but still friendly in terms
This agreement should allow for the freest possible trade
in goods and services between Britain and the EU's member states.
It should give British companies the maximum
operate within European markets and let European businesses do
She also said no deal would be better than the wrong deal,
We want to test what people think about what she's just said.
Do we have any of our future negotiating
As the European Parliament voted for its new
president, its chief negotiator sounded off.
Saying, OK, if our European counterparts don't accept
it, we're going to make from Britain a sort
of free zone or tax haven, I
The Prime Minister of Malta, the country that's assumed the EU's
rotating presidency, spoke in sorrow and a bit of anger.
We want a fair deal for the United Kingdom, but
that deal necessarily needs to be inferior to membership.
Next, let's hear from some enthusiastic
leavers, like, I don't know, the Daily Mail?
The paper lapped it up with this adoring front page.
For Brexiteers, it was all manna from heaven.
I think today means we are a big step closer to becoming
an independent country again, with control of our own laws,
I was chuckling at some of it, to be honest, because
There were various phrases there which I've used myself again and
Do we have any of those so-called Remoaners?
There will, at the end of this deal process,
so politicians get to vote on the stitch-up, but
We take the view as Liberal Democrats that
if this process started with democracy last June,
We trusted the people with departure, we must trust them
Do we have anyone from Labour, or are you all
watching it in a small room somewhere?
Throughout the speech, there seemed to be an implied threat that
somewhere along the line, if all her optimism of a deal
with the European Union didn't work, we would move
into a low-tax, corporate taxation, bargain-basement economy on the
I think she needs to be a bit clearer about what
The Labour leader suggested he'd tell
his MPs to vote in favour of starting a Brexit process if
Parliament was given the choice, sparking a mini pre-revolt among
Finally, do we have anyone from big business here?
Of course, your all in Davos at the World Economic
Clarity, first of all, really codified what many of us have been
anticipating since the referendum result,
particularly around the
I think what we've also seen today is the Government's
willingness to put a bit of edge into the negotiating dynamic, and I
Trade negotiations are negotiations, and you have to lay out, and you
have to be pretty tough to get what you want.
Although some business people on the slopes speculated
about moving some of their operations out of Brexit Britain.
We saw there the instant reaction of Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn,
but how will the party respond to the challenge posed by Brexit
Well, I'm joined now by the Shadow Home Secretary, Diane Abbott.
People know that Ukip and the Tories are for Brexit. The Lib Dems are
four remain. What is Labour for? For respecting the result of the
referendum. It was a 72% turnout, very high for an election of that
nature, and we believe you have to respect that result. You couldn't
have a situation where people like Tim Farron are saying to people,
millions of people, sorry, you got it wrong, we in London no better.
However, how the Tories go forward from here has to be subject to
parliamentary scrutiny. Is it Shadow Cabinet policy to vote for the
triggering of Article 50? Our policy is not to block Article 50. That is
what the leader was saying this morning. So are you for it? Our
policy is not to block it. You are talking about voting for it. We
don't know what the Supreme Court is going to say, and we don't know what
legislation Government will bring forward, and we don't know what
amendment we will move, but we're clear that we will not vote to block
it. OK, so you won't bow to stop it, but you could abstain? No, what we
will do... Either you vote for or against all you abstain. There are
too many unanswered questions. For instance, the position of EU
migrants working and living in this country. You may not get the answer
to that before Article 50 comes before the Commons, so what would
you do then? We are giving to amend it. We can only tell you exactly how
we will amend it when we understand what sort of legislation the
Government is putting forward, and in the course of moving those
amendments, we will ask the questions that the people of Britain
whether they voted to leave remain want answered.
When you come to a collective view, will there be a three line whip? I
can't tell you, because we have not seen the government 's legislation.
But when you see it, you will come to a collective view. Many regard
this as extremely important. Will there be a three line whip on
Labour's collective view? Because it is important, we shouldn't get ahead
of ourselves. When we see what the Supreme Court says, and crucially,
when we see what the government position is, you will hear what the
whipping is. Will shadow ministers be able to defy any three line whip
on this? That is not normally the case. But they did on an early vote
that the government introduced on Article 50. Those who voted against
it are still there. In the Blair years, you certainly couldn't defy a
three line whip. We will see what happens going forward. I remember
when the Tories were hopelessly divided over the EU. All these
Maastricht votes and an list arguments. Now it is Labour. Just
another symptom of Mr Corbyn's poor leadership. Not at all. Two thirds
voted to leave, a third to remain. We are seeking to bring the country
and the party together. We will do that by pointing out how disastrous
a Tory Brexit would be. Meanwhile, around 80 Labour MPs will defy a
three line whip. It's too early to say that. Will you publish what you
believe the negotiating goal should be? We are clear on it. We think
that the economy, jobs and living standards should be the priority.
What Theresa May is saying is that holding her party together is her
priority. She is putting party above country. Does Labour think we should
remain members of the single market? Ideally, in terms of jobs and the
economy, of course. Ritt -ish business thinks that as well. Is
Labour policy that we should remain a member of the single market?
Labour leaves that jobs and the economy comes first, and if they
come first, you would want to remain part of the single market. But to
remain a member? Jobs and the economy comes first, and to do that,
ideally, guess. So with that, comes free movement of people, the
jurisdiction of the European, and a multi-million never shipped thief.
Is Labour prepared to pay that? Money is neither here nor there.
Because the Tories will be asked to pay a lot of money... The EU has
made it clear that you cannot have... I am asking for Labour's
position. Our position is rooted in the reality, and the reality is that
you cannot have the benefits of the member of the European Union,
including being a member of the single market, without
responsibility, including free movement of people. Free movement,
is remaining under the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice. Is
that the Labour position? You've said that Labour wants to remain a
member of the single market. That is the price tag that comes with it.
Does Labour agree with paying that price tag? We are not pre-empting
negotiation. Our goals are protect jobs and the British economy. Is it
Labour's position that we remain a member of the customs union? Well,
if we don't, I don't see how Theresa May can keep our promises and has
unfettered access... You said Labour's position was clear. It is!
It is clear that Theresa May... I am not asking about Theresa May. Is it
Labour's position to remain a member of the customs union? It is Labour's
position to do what is right for British industry. Depending on how
the negotiations go, it may prove that coming out of the customs
union, as Theresa May has indicated she wants to do, could prove
catastrophic, and could actually destroy some of her promises. You do
accept that if we are member of the customs union, we cannot do our own
free trade deals? What free trade deals are you talking about? The
ones that Labour might want to do in the future. First, we have to
protect British jobs and British industries. If you are talking about
free trade deals with Donald Trump, the danger is that Theresa May will
get drawn into a free-trade deal with America that will open up the
NHS to American corporate... The cards are in Theresa May's hands. If
she takes us out of the single market, if she takes us out of the
customs union, we will have to deal with that. How big a crisis for
Jeremy Corbyn will be if Labour loses both by-elections in February.
I don't believe we will lose both. But if he did? I am not anticipating
that. Is Labour lost two seats in a midterm of a Tory government, would
that be business as usual? I'm not prepared to see us lose those seats,
so I will not talk about something that will not happen. Thank you.
You're watching the Sunday Politics.
We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now
Coming up here in 20 minutes, The Week Ahead,
when we'll be talking to Business Minister Margot James
about the government's new industrial strategy and that
crucial Supreme Court ruling on Brexit.
And in the East Midlands: Politics where you are.
What impact will leaving the single market have on our region?
Jobs at risk in some areas, but elsewhere, businesses
We've most definitely improved since Brexit.
We've had a 20% increase in orders, with recorded my staff in
order that we can deal with the orders, and also we have bigger
And it's meant to be a formula for fairer funding, but
hundreds of schools across the region are set to lose tens of
thousands of pounds, whilst others are set to gain.
This is a double whammy for Nottingham's schools and
They were already facing difficult times, now they are going
My guests this week are Maggie Throup, who's the Conservative MP
And Lilian Greenwood, the Labour MP for Nottingham South.
First, though, the HS2 road show hit the
Plans for the new high-speed route through the
region have been on display at villages in Leicestershire, where
local people were invited to look at the latest details.
Meanwhile, the Transport Secretary launched the
search for a company to build trains for the new route this week.
Well, you can tell me, what might the organisers
Because really not a lot has been decided about HS2 so far.
We know that it's now coming to the region,
which is really good news for local economy.
Virtually, the route is decided, yes.
My constituents will be affected and that I'm
fighting for really good compensation for both
the residents and businesses that are going to lose
So, it's early days yet, but we do know
it's going to be be a hub in Taunton and most of the route is finalised.
There's certainly a lot of concern among those who near to the route
Are you worried about the slow progress in this field?
I mean, I think it a long process of taking forward a
major infrastructure projects of this sort and part of the reason
for that is the time it's taken to properly consult
and there will be a long period of consultation to
ensure that the fine detail is right to take on board the impact
on the local area, on the local environment and quite rightly,
Maggie and other people will have a part
In terms of the contract, which we mentioned, 2.7
billion, it's a juicy contract, I mean, one would hope Bombardier
and associated firms would get a swing at that.
I mean, the whole region is renowned for the rail industry.
Whether it's the tracks or the rolling stock, so
I think some of our local businesses are going to release either
businesses boom as a result of HS2 and I want to
encourage them all to be part of that tendering process
businesses get a lot of those tenders.
And, Lillian, is it important that Bombardier get this
contact, given what may or may not be heading the future?
It's hugely important for our East Midlands rail
industry, which isn't of course just Bombardier.
We've got the biggest cluster of rail engineering firms
in the world here in the East Midlands.
And what I'd like to know from the Government
procurement process, are they going to be able to take
into account the local economic and social impact
Because we don't want what has happened to the
Thameslink, where of course that contract was in place with Siemens
rather than one of our domestic train builders.
And that HS2 road show will be on trail next
week and in Long Eaton, too, which might be interesting,
given that the route cuts right through the town as we have heard.
So, we could see a boost for train makers, but what of
What does Theresa May's announcement that we will be leaving
the single market mean for our region?
There are reports of jobs under threat in some areas, but
other companies are reporting that business has boomed following the
Here's our political editor Tony Roe.
Unemployment remains at an 11 year low.
No comfort though for the 280 and the pizza factory in Nottingham,
who this week learnt their jobs are to go.
It's not clear, but they lost a massive Tesco order.
The fall in the pound since the Brexit vote
has raised the price of what the import.
But for this company, Brexit is good news.
A1 Flues from Ollerton, has had the best six months in the
company cosmic history, with high profile projects like the shard and
We've most definitely improved since Brexit.
We've had a 20% increase in orders, we've recruited more staff
in order to deal with the orders and also, the bigger orders are
And the fall of the pound is good news for exports.
We've got a lot more explort interest now.
We've got an agent over in the Middle East, so
Whether that's anything to do with Brexit,
we are not 100% sure, but it
As economies grow, our towns and cities
Derby is now the marketplace for a aero-engines, trains and cars.
This week in an interview with the Financial
Times, the Toyota boss said the company, after Theresa May's
speech, now has to consider how they can survive in the UK.
How's that gone down in Derby, the city which
benefits most from Toyota's presence?
I think that these people, the likes of Toyota and that,
they're probably looking for moving production over to Eastern Europe,
When Toyota say things like they've said, does that worry you slightly?
It does concern me, but I think there are going to
be these symptoms and we are going to have to deal with that.
There's going to be some peaks and troughs,
but overall, I think we have to give it some time.
I wonder if they are trying to find if they could
have a hand-out like Nissan, because I am sure they will be
persuaded to stop with a little sweetener, but will we be
Perhaps that's why Toyota have said what they have.
The unions are reassured by commitments to the UK
from Toyota and Rolls-Royce, but have many more
Rolls-Royce received a significant amount
Again, they have committed themselves to the UK,
which is good, but we have a question as the trade union that
says, you rode your buss around saying you're going to give ?350
million every day to the health service, you are going to give
17,000 to every farmer and continue to make those payments and
yet you don't want to be making all these other
The Prime Minister has promised a bold,
confident and an open Britain, but some Tory MPs have said if we
abandon the single market, there will be economic consequences.
The key to the future is going to be how
we get access to that single market when we leave the EU.
Tony, you been speaking obviously to the
What is the feeling, do you think, across
the region about this very vital issue of leaving the single market?
I think the word that businesses, in particular, use more than any is
They don't have that certainty at the moment about what's
going to happen and we are just seeing really the effects of the
referendum vote more than anything else
We have had some figures this week from which show
that after a record low, the number of insolvencies of businesses are
starting to creep up again, in the East Midlands particularly in
manufacturing in the last six months of last year.
Maggie Throup, what's your reaction to the speech?
It was perhaps harder edged and more pro-hard Brexit than some would
for some clarity over the situation and that's what the Prime
So many of my businesses that I've been speaking to since the
speech were saying, "We have clarity.
"We now know where we stand and we can move forward and we can
"plan on the grounds that we will be leaving the single market."
The single market is the single market for goods,
services and the free movement of people.
I think the referendum was quite clear that people were against
the free movement of people across the European Borders.
And that's the thing that the Prime Minister has
So, does it seem to you in that speech that
that she is putting immigration above the economy?
Because that's what voters voted for it in the referendum.
But actually being able to control our borders.
She now is quite adamant that we will negotiate a
free trade agreement with the EU and, let's face it, with countries
The message was, we are open for business.
Controlling immigration and controlling Borders as one and
It's making sure that we have the people here to fill the gap
in the skills that are there, but is also important that we look
to see what the gaps are and try to work
business and schools together so we can fill out the gaps, without
Lilian Greenwood, that is absolutely right, we have to be able to control
our borders and control who comes in and when?
I think the real concern from Theresa May pot speech is the
It's a rollback from the Conservatives.
In the 2015 general election manifesto, they said yes to
It's the biggest trading bloc and the world and if we
are outside the single market and we are in successful
in negotiating that kind of free trade arrangement
with the EU, then we will face a huge tariffs on our goods and that
could be hugely damaging, not just to our manufacturers, but other
industries within the East Midlands that we rely on.
But isn't the Labour Party really playing catch up on
Your party has never really understood
voters' concerns about immigration and would rather not talk about it
I completely understand voters' concerns about the impact it
potentially has on jobs and services and that's why it was a big mistake
by the Conservatives to scrap the migration
impact fund, but there are
We see that certainly very clearly in Nottingham.
One of our biggest export's higher education.
If we are not able to bring in the brightest in the past,
whether its students or staff, that could be an
absolute disaster for Nottingham's economy.
The education select committee took evidence last week
around the impact of Brexit on the EU and the Vice Chancellor
of Oxford Brookes University said that it
would be an absolute disaster if we are not able to access
the brightest and the best from across the EU.
I don't think that is what the Prime Minister's saying, though.
She's actually saying that we could control our borders, not to close
I think there's a huge difference there.
But we know that if we make it very difficult for
people to come here and if you tighten up these
visa immigration rules, it prevents students and
We've seen that already happened when it comes
It will have a huge impact if we want to keep the
quality of our research universities.
OK, we will have to leave it there for the moment.
But I suppose an example of how it the
politics and the economics all become intermingled, but this is a
particularly interesting aspect in this region,
because although voting heavily for Brexit in this region, some of
our politicians here have been leading the campaign for a softer
In the Commons this week two of our MPs were keen for the Prime
Minister to consult more with Parliament.
Before Article 50 is triggered, would she please consider
at least publishing all those 12 objectives in a White Paper so that
we can debate them here in this place on behalf of all our
Could she clarify whether she anticipates this house
having an opportunity to vote its approval for those
policies earlier than two years away, when the whole
Tony, as we were seeing, many of our MPs are among the most prominent
campaigners for a so-called softer Brexit.
So, what was their mood after Theresa May's speech?
We saw Ken Clarke there and Ken Clarke, if
there is any MP in East Midlands who's going to vote against Article
He made it plain after the speech from Theresa May this week that he
didn't think she'd said anything new at all.
On the other hand, we have Nicky Morgan and Anna Soubry who
are both very vocal in wanting to have access to the single market
and free movement of labour, let's not forget.
And they seem, after the speech, to soften their stance
somewhat on to say that the 12 point plan had
some positive points in the
wanted to take those positive points away
future and try to get that access to the single market.
It's interesting, isn't it, Maggie, if we're talking
about splits within the Labour Party on this, but there are certainly
splits within the Conservative Party in terms of the soft Brexiteers and
I think we have even stopped disagreeing now.
My colleagues in the chamber during the week, obviously, they do
like what the Prime Minister's saying.
I think one of the messages from Theresa was actually building
consensus and she seems to be doing that.
Yeah, Anna Soubry did say that she didn't think
it was a hard Brexit, what the Prime Minister was saying.
Well, maybe more nuanced than some observers
I mean, Ken Clarke is going to vote against triggering Article
It looks like it and Ken has a lot of experience.
I wouldn't want to say anything against Ken.
He's a great politician and he has some
great work and he really believes in what he's doing at the moment.
OK, Lilian Greenwood, where do you stand on Article 50?
Because it has been some confusion about whether Labour MPs
are going to be whipped into triggering it, approvingly
triggering of it and, well, are they going to be whipped?
Well, I think all Labour MPs, you know, we saw the
result of the referendum and we want to respect the choice
of the British people, but equally, having seen
what Theresa May has come out with, it's very concerning and I want to
see the motion in what amendments are put down to it,
that my constituents didn't vote for is to worse off.
And while she may be aiming for a soft Brexit, she
says she wants to have free trade with Europe,
she wants to avoid some of the bureaucracy that would come
from being outside the customs union, there is absolutely no
guarantee that she's going to be able to negotiate those things.
Can I just ask you, will you vote to trigger Article 50?
Well, I'm going to wait and see with the motion says
I'm very conscious of what my constituents think.
I want to be talking to them and consulting with
them and I'm very concerned about the future for the economy, for
workers' rights, for environmental protections and how those might be
thrown away, giving Theresa May's negotiating stance.
And just briefly, Maggie, do you think there
will be a timely vote or will it be a piecemeal vote early on and you
won't get an actual vote on the deal as it is decided on?
The Prime Minister in her speech said that
there will be a vote in both houses of Parliament about the final deal.
OK, for now, thank you very much indeed.
Next, many schools in a region are counting
Next, many schools in a region are counting the cost of a proposed
The idea is to iron out historical differences, which
have seen some areas get far more per pupil than others.
The Government says that more half of the country's
schools will see an increase, but in one of our cities, almost every
Before school starts, a chance to get food for the brain.
These breakfast clubs now operate at every primary school in
You're allowed to see your friends and it's really nice to
I like it, because it's fun and I get to talk
to my friends and it gets me ready for the day.
I can do different activities, like colouring, playing
In Nottingham city, 85 out of 87 schools will be
worse off because of the new funding formula.
Here, they will have to save ?48,000 - the equivalent
Extracurricular activities like these Breakfast club's
When you're organising the school budget, you look at how you can
organise that funding right across and making sure that you're
providing services and opportunities for children.
If we have to reduce the office numbers and the admin,
actually, then we might need to pass that cost
Whilst city schools seem to be the real losers from the funding
formula, many headteachers in rural areas will have more money to play
Although, in Nottinghamshire County, most schools will still have
Unions say that when inflation is taken into
account, the overwhelming majority are facing deep cuts.
Hardly robbing from the rich to give to the poor.
The problem is that there is money being diverted to some of the
wealthiest parts of the country, in places like Buckinghamshire and
Cambridgeshire, from both Nottingham city
and Nottinghamshire County and
Ministers insist funding for schools is at
a record high and the new formula will end
the postcode lottery of the
Ultimately though, it's up to the schools themselves to make
Now, Lilian Greenwood, the Government obviously would be in
touch with the Department and in the adamant that
overall, Nottingham and
Nottinghamshire will see an increase in funding.
0.3% in Nottingham and 1.8% for Nottinghamshire.
Every single school in my constituency is going
Not just as a result of the funding formula, which takes
money away from Nottingham schools, but as a result of the flat funding,
which means real-time cuts of 8% for schools.
Every school practically across the country is a loser and
Nottingham city schools are some of the worst hit.
But overall, the DFE said Nottingham will still be one of
the highest funded areas in the county, no doubt
because there may be special issues, but that's the bear
Well, I think if you went to any school in my
constituency and said, you've got to make savings, you've got to cut
further, they are going to have to cut into...
If it's not teachers, to be teaching assistants or other
It's the sort of extracurricular activities that we
They are working hard to try to make sure
that young people in my city get the best possible start
and if they have fewer resources, that's going to be
The truth is, the Government need to be more
funding into education to ensure that we can really deliver on the
sort of high-quality learning children need.
Maggie Throup, why do some schools apparently have to take a
cut in order to improve funding for others?
We hear that Nottingham's cuts will give more money to schools
in places like Buckinghamshire and Oxfordshire.
I think what this is doing is getting rid of the
Because at the moment, the inner city schools tend
to get more funding in schools in rural areas.
There are a lot of areas of deprivation in the rule
economy as well, so you can't just have this postcode blanket approach.
You need to have a look at how the money will actually follow
the pupil and for me, that's the most important thing.
Just talking about the Breakfast Club, the new proposed
levy on the sugary drinks industry is actually going to...
Some of that is going to go to more breakfast
clubs, which I think is really important.
I think the other thing as well, the proposals for the funding
formula is still out to consultation.
So people can contribute to that consultation and
It's open until towards the end of March, so nothing is finalised yet.
Well, that's a very good point and also, Lilian Greenwood, this
You cannot blame the Government for trying to do
something about the inequality that previously existed.
I don't think it's wrong to look to have a
fairer funding formula, but you can't do that
without putting more money into the system.
We know that schools are already struggling with
pay rises, extra national insurance contributions, extra money to be
They've not had any money from the Government
to help them cope with those extra costs that they faced and therefore,
it would mean cuts to the quality of education they are able to provide.
And the question I asked Maggie is, you know,
one of your schools is, I think it
is the largest loser in the whole of Derbyshire.
I don't know what you're going to say to them.
Well, I think it's how you actually spend that
The academy you mentioned has got a fantastic new headteacher.
I know that the ethos she brings to the school
It's the ethos of the school that's important.
It's time now for a round-up of some of the other
political stories from the East Midlands this week.
Parents in Derby want the city's council to bring a
long-running strike by school teaching assistants to an end.
The ongoing dispute with the City Council
over cuts in pay of up to
?6,000 a year has seen them take action every day this week.
Hospital managers say they are still not in a
position to reopen Grantham's accident
The department has been shut between 6:30pm and 9am since last
The family of the former Leicester West
MP Lord Janner has asked to be allowed to take part in the enquiry
The Labour peer who died in 2015 is alleged to
have abused youngsters over a 30 year period.
His family have always strongly denied the claims.
Nottingham is considering a bid to become the European capital of
In the past, the title has brought an economic boost to cities
The announcement on whether the City Council is applying will be
And there is another busy week to come.
That is the Sunday Politics in the East Midlands.
My thanks to Maggie Throup and Lilian Greenwood.
have to do this. Thank you to you both.
What exactly is the government's industrial strategy?
Will ministers lose their supreme court battle over Brexit, and,
Well, tomorrow Theresa May is launching the government's
industrial strategy - and to talk about that we're joined
by the Business Minister, Margot James - welcome to the show.
When you look at what has already been released in advance of the
Prime Minister's statement, it was embargoed for last night, it's not
really an industrial strategy, it's just another skills strategy, of
which we have had about six since the war, and our skills training is
among the worst in Western Europe? There will be plenty more to be
announced tomorrow in what is really a discussion document in the
preparation of an industrial strategy which we intend to launch
properly later in the year. Let's look at skills. You are allocating
117 of funding to establish institutes of technology. How many?
The exact number is to be agreed, but the spend is there, and it will
be on top of what we are doing to the university, technical
colleges... How many were lit bio create? We don't know exactly, but
we want to put them in areas where young people are performing under
the national average. But if you don't know how many, what is the
basis of 170 million? That is the amount the Treasury have released.
The something that is very important, we are agreed we need to
devote more resources to vocational training and get it on a par with
academic qualifications. I looked on the website of my old university,
the University of Glasgow, the Russell group universities. Its
spending budget every year is over 600 million. That's one University.
And yet you have a mere 170 million foreign unspecified number of
institutes of technology. It hasn't got equality with the academics? You
have to remember that just as you have quoted figures from Glasgow
University there are further education colleges all over the
country. The government is already spending on 16 to 19-year-olds. But
also, we are going to be adding... This is new money that is all to the
good, because we are already spending a lot. We have already
created 2 million more apprentices since 2010. That many are not in
what we would call the stem skills, and a lot come nowhere near what the
Dutch, Germans and Austrians would have. I'm not clear how another 170
million would do. You said it is more than skills. In what way is
this industrial strategy different from what Mr Cameron and Mr Osborne
did before? It's different because it is involving every single
government department, and bringing together everything that government
does in a bid to make Britain more competitive as it disengages from
the European Union. That is what the last Labour government did. They
will much more targeted interventions. Under the Labour
government, the auto industry got some benefit. A few more sectors
were broached under the coalition government. This is all about
communities all over the country, some of whom have fallen behind in
terms of wage growth and good jobs. The Prime Minister has already
announced 2 billion as a research and development priority in specific
technologies, robotics, artificial intelligence, medical technology,
satellites... So you are doing what has been done before. There is
nothing new about this. Wait until tomorrow, because there will be some
new strands emerging. It is the beginning of the dialogue with
industry and with workers, and the responses will be invited up until
April. That will inform a wider strategy that goes beyond skills. I
have moved on to beyond them. I'm slightly puzzled as to how the
government knows where to invest in robotics, when it can't even provide
the NHS with a decent IT system. Discuss. I have to say I find it
bizarre that the government is making an announcement about an
amount of money and don't know where it's going. This is typical of all
governments over all political shoes, which is total disregard for
technical education, so different from Germany, who actually invest in
the technological side. Germany has a long history. We want to emulate
some of the best of what German companies do. Siemens sponsor
primary schools, for example. We want to get a dialogue on with
business. We don't want to decide where this money is going. By the
way, it was 4.7 billion that the government has agreed to invest in
science and research, which is the most significant increase in
decades. Can you remind us what happened in Northern Ireland, when
the government invested money in state-of-the-art technology for
energy? No one needs to be reminded of that, and that is not what we are
doing. We are inviting business and industry to advise where that money
is best spent. That's very different from government deciding that a
particular technology is for the future. The government's chief
scientific adviser has determined that we will invest a huge amount in
battery technology, which should benefit the electric car industry,
and... This is taxpayers' money. Who gets it? Ultimately, business will
get it, but often only when there is a considerable amount of private
sector finance also drawn in. But who is held to account? Various
government departments at local authorities will hold this list to
account. A lot of it is about releasing private capital as well.
Thank you very much. This week, the Supreme Court, I think we know the
ruling is coming on Tuesday. And the expectation is that the judges will
say Parliament will have to vote to trigger. Is this all much ado about
nothing? Parliament will vote to trigger, and the government will win
in the Lords and the Commons by substantial majorities, and it will
be triggered? Completely. We've known that. Parliament is voted.
Everyone is pretty confident that the Supreme Court will uphold the
High Court's decision and say it has to go to MPs. There will be a bit of
toing and froing among MPs on amendments. You heard Diane Abbott's
slightly car crash interview there. The Lib Dems may throw something in,
but we will trigger Article 50 by the end of March. If it also says
that the roll of Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast should be picked up,
that could complicate matters. Absolutely. That could delay the
planned triggering of Article 50 before the end of March. Not what
they say about the Westminster Parliament, because it is clear that
it was. I never understood the furore about that original judgment,
because every MP made it clear they wouldn't block it. Even though Diane
Abbott was evasive on several fronts, she said they wouldn't block
it. You are right, if they give a vote, or give some authorisation for
the Scottish Parliament and other devolved assemblies, that might
delay the whole sequence. That is the only significant thing to watch
out for. Watch out on Tuesday. Mrs May goes to Washington. It will be
another movie in the making! I would suggest that she has a tricky line
to follow. She has got to be seen to be taking advantage of the fact that
there is a very pro-British, pro-Brexit president in the Oval
Office, who I am told is prepared to expend political capital on this.
But on the other hand, to make sure that she is not what we used to call
Mr Blair, George Bush's poodle. It is very difficult, and who would not
want to be a fly on the wall in that meeting! I can't think of anyone in
the world who would despise Mr Trump more than Mrs May, and for him, he
dislikes any woman who does not look like a supermodel, no disrespected
Mrs May. Most of it is actually anti-EU, and I think we should
capitalise it. Let's get the Queen to earn her money, roll out the red
carpet, invite him to dinner, spend the night, what ever we need...
Trump at Balmoral! Here is the issue, because the agenda is, as we
heard from Ted Malloch earlier, that this is not an administration that
has much time for the EU, EU integration or Germany. I think
Germany will be the second biggest loser to begin with. They will not
even give a date for Angela Merkel to meet the president. This is an
opportunity for Mrs May... It is a huge. It could sideline talks of the
punishment beating from Germany. The Trump presidency has completely
changed the field on Brexit. Along came Donald Trump, and Theresa May
has this incredible opportunity here. Not of her making, but she has
played her cards well. To an officially be the EU emissary to
Washington, to get some sort of broker going. That gives us huge
extra leveraged in the Brexit negotiations. People around the
world think Germany as a currency manipulator, that it is benefiting
from an underpriced euro, hence the huge surplus it runs of America, and
they think it is disgraceful that a country that runs a massive budget
surplus spends only 1.2% of its GDP on defence, and America runs a
massive deficit and needs to spend a lot more. He's going for Germany.
And what a massive shift. I think Obama was quite open, in a farewell
interview, that he felt closer to Merkel than any other European
leader. And Jamie kind of reflected that in our discussion. Yes, that's
very interesting discussion. I think she was the last person he spoke to
in the White House, Obama. And now you are getting the onslaught from
Trump. This Thatcher- Reagan imagery is dangerous, though. Blair was
hypnotised by it and was too scared to criticise Bush, because he wanted
to be seen in that light, and we know where that led. Cameron
similarly with Obama, which presented him with problems, as
Obama didn't regard him as his number one pin up in Europe. I would
put a note of caution in there about the Thatcher - Reagan parallel.
Everything Trump is doing now is different from before, so Mrs May
should not have any of these previous relationships in her mind.
That is not entirely true. Donald Trump aches to be the new Ronald
Reagan. He may be impeached first! He sees her as the new Margaret
Thatcher, and that may her leveraged with him. Thank you.
We'll be back here at the same time next week, and you can catch up
on all the latest political news on the Daily Politics,
In the meantime, remember - if it's Sunday,
It's just pain, but it doesn't feel like pain,
it feels much more violent, dark and exciting.