09/02/2014 Sunday Politics East

morning, folks, welcome to the Sunday Politics. Rising flood water,

a battered coastline, the winter storms forced the Government to take

control. Is it hanging the Environment Agency out to dry?

Embarrassment for the Government is the Immigration Minister resigns

after he discovered he was employing a cleaner with no right to work here

for seven years. Ed Miliband promised an end to what he called

the machine politics of union fixes in the Labour Party,

Here in the East: The new plans in Essex aiming put an

end to domestic violence. And hospice care in your own home

brings help to those in need. And hospice care in your own home

In London after two days of disruption in the capital the Mayor

Boris Johnson will be talking to ask about strife on the Underground.

Boris Johnson will be talking to ask about strife on the Underground All

of that and after a week of very public coalition spats can David

Cameron and Nick Clegg keep the coalition show on the road? Two

senior party figures will go head to head. And with me, Helen Lewis, Nick

Watt and Iain Martin who would not know they Somerset Levels from their

Norfolk Broads, but that will not stop them tweeting their thoughts.

We start with the strange Case of the Immigration Minister, his

cleaner and some lost documents Yesterday Mark Harper tendered his

resignation, telling the media he had discovered the cleaner who

worked for him for seven years did not have the right to work in the

UK. The Communities Secretary Eric Pickles said he had done the

honourable thing. I was sad to see him go, he was a strong minister.

Had he been a member of the public he would not have done anything

wrong, but he set himself a very high standard and he felt that

standard and honourably stood down. This would seem like a good

resignation, maybe unlike the Baroness Scotland one years ago on a

similar issue, but have we been told the full story? We wait to see that.

Labour have picked up saying he is an honourable man, that the reason

why he resigned is these very owners checks that landlords and employers

will have to perform on employees over their documentation. The most

interesting line is that, we do not require them to be experts or spot

anything other than an obvious forgery. The suggestion that there

is the document he was presented with originality, which he lost was

on home office paper and was perhaps not entirely accurate. That is the

embarrassment. He is the minister putting through a bill that will

demand tougher checks on people and he himself did not do enough checks

to discover she was illegal. There is an odd bit where he involves the

home office later to check her out as well. He writes a resignation

letter and he has to hold himself to pay higher standard. He has done the

David Laws approach to this, resign quickly and he can come back. David

Cameron wants him to return swiftly to the frontbenchers. He is a state

school educated lad. He is the kind of Tory that the Tories are in short

supply of. He is a rising star. I would caution on this idea that it

is customary that whenever anyone resigns, it is always thought they

will come straight back into office. If only the outside world worked

like that. It is not, in a company if the HR person resigns, he is such

a great chap he will be back next week. There is a silver lining for

David Cameron is he has been able to move Harriet Bond up as he moves

everyone up. But nobody will see her in the whips office because she is

not allowed to appear on television. And if you three want to resign Do

And if you three want to resign? Do not hate you are coming back next

week. But we will do it with honour. It has been a hellish week for

residents of coastal areas with more storms bringing more flooding and

after Prince Charles visited the Somerset Levels on Tuesday the

Government has been keen to show it has got a grip on the situation at

last. For last weekend's Sunday Politics I

made the watery journey to the village of Muchelney, cut off for a

whole month. Now everyone has been dropping in. First it was Prince

Charles on a park bench pulled by a tractor. He waded into the row about

how the floods have been handled. Next it was the chair of the

Environment Agency, Lord Smith, who faced angry residents. Sought the

river is out. That is precisely what we are going to do. Where he faced,

a resident, he did not need that many. David Cameron went for a look

as well and gave the region what it wanted, more pumps, more money and

in the long-term the return of dredging. There are lessons to

learn. The pause in bridging that took place from the late 1990s was

wrong and we need to get dredging again. When the water levels come

down and it is safe to dredge, we will dredging to make sure these

rivers and stitches can carry a better capacity. The Environment

Secretary Owen Paterson has not been seen again because he is recovering

from emergency eye surgery. In the meantime the floodwaters rose ever

higher. Some residents were told to evacuate. In Devon the railway was

washed away by the waves leaving a big gap in the network. Look at the

weather this weekend. If you can believe it, the storms keep rolling

in. What is the long-term solution for flood prone areas of the

country? I am joined from Oxford by the editor of The Ecologist

magazine, Oliver Tickell, and by local MP Tessa Munt. Tessa, let me

come to you first. What do you now want the Government to do? I want it

to make sure it does exactly as it promises and delivers what every

farmer and landowner around here knows should have been done for

years. First, to solve the problems we have right now, but to make sure

there is money in the bank for us to carry on doing the maintenance that

is necessary. Was it a mistake not to do the dredging? When the waters

start to subside does dredging become a key part of this? Yes, of

course. It is something the farmers have been asking for four years.

When you wander along a footpath by a river and you see trees growing

and there is 60% of the capacity only because there is silt, it needs

to have a pretty dramatic action right now and then we need to make

sure the maintenance is ongoing. Oliver Tickell, was it a mistake to

stop the dredging? If the dredging had happened, the land would not be

covered in water for so long? Clearly it is necessary to do at

least some dredging on these rivers and in particular because these

rivers are well above ground level. They are carrying water that comes

down off the hills well above the level of the flood plain on the

Somerset Levels. They naturally tend to silt up. But the key thing is

that is only a small part of the overall solution. What we need is a

catchment wide approach to improve infiltration upstream and you also

need to manage the flood plain on the levels and upstream so as to

have active flood plain that can store water. This idea it is just

about dredging is erroneous. Dredging is a part of it, but it is

a catchment wide solution. Dredging is only a small part of the solution

he says. Yes, of course it is. But look here. With the farmer is

locally, the landowners, they know this land will carry water for a few

weeks of the year, that is not a problem. But this water has to be

taken away and there is a very good system of drainage and it works

perfectly well. In my area there are serious problems because the

dredging has not taken place. There are lunatic regulations around were

when they do do some of dredging, the Environment Agency is asked to

take it away because it is considered toxic waste. This is

barmy. We need to take the stuff out of the rivers and build the banks up

so we create protection in the future. We have to make sure the

dredging is done but make sure the drainage works well and we have

pumps in places and we have floodgates put onto the rivers. We

need to make sure repairs are done more quickly. All right, let me go

back to Oliver Tickell. Is it not the case a lot of people on your

side of the argument would like to see lands like the Somerset Levels

return to natural habitat? Looe I would like a degree of that, but

that does not mean the whole place needs to turn into wilderness so it

will remain agricultural landscape. Everybody, all the interested

parties who signed up to a document called vision 2034 the Somerset

Levels envisages most of the area of the Somerset Levels being turned

over to extensive grassland and that is what it is best suited for. Let

me put that to Tessa Munt. Have you signed up to this where you will end

up with extensive grassland? I have seen it, but grass does not grow if

water is sitting on this land for weeks and weeks. What you have to

remember is a lot of the levels are managed very carefully and they are

conservation land and that means cattle are allowed to go out at

certain times of the year and in certain numbers. It is well managed.

Do you accept it should return to grassland? Grassland, fine, but you

cannot call land grassland in the flipping water is on it so long that

nothing grows. It is no good at doing that. You have got to make

sure it is managed properly. Drainage has been taking place on

this land for centuries. It is the case the system is there, but it

needs to be maintained properly and we have to have fewer ridiculous

regulations that stop action. Last year the flooding minister agreed

dredging should take place and everything stopped. Now we have got

the promise from the Prime Minister and I thank Prince Charles for that.

Is it not time to let the local people run their land rather than

being told what to do by the Environment Agency, central

Government and the European Union? The internal drainage boards have

considerable power in all of this. They wanted to dredge and they were

not allowed to. The farmers want to dredge that is what is going to

happen, but they have signed up to a comprehensive vision of catchment

management and of environmental improvement turning the Somerset

Levels into a world-class haven for wildlife. It is not much good if

your house is underwater. The farmers themselves, the RSPB, the

drainage boards, they have all signed up to this. The real question

now is how do we implement that vision? You give the money to the

drainage boards. At the moment they pay 27% of their money and have been

doing so for years and years and this is farmers' money and it has

been going to the drainage boards and they pay the Environment Agency

who are meant to be dredging and that has not happened. We have to

leave it there. We have run out of time.

Last week saw the Labour Party adopts an historic change with its

relationship with the unions. Changes to the rules that propelled

Ed Miliband to the top. Ed Miliband was elected Labour leader in 2010

Ed Miliband to the top. Ed Miliband was elected Labour leader in 20 0 by

the electoral college system which gives unions, party members and MPs

one third of votes each. This would be changed into a simpler one

member, one vote system. A union member would have to become an

affiliated member of the party. They would have to opt in and pay ?3 a

year. But the unions would have 50% of the vote at the conference and

around one third of the seats on the National executive committee. The

proposals are a financial gamble as well. It is estimated the party

could face a drop in funding of up to ?5 million a year when the

changes are fully implemented in five years. The leader of the Unite

trade union has welcomed the report saying it is music to his ears. The

package will be voted on at a special one of conference in March.

And the Shadow Business Secretary Chuka Umunna joins me now for the

Sunday Interview. Welcome back. In what way will the unions have less

power and influence in the Labour Party? This is about ensuring

individual trade union members have a direct relationship with the

Labour Party. At the moment the monies that come to us are decided

at a top level, the general secretaries determine this, whether

the individual members want us to be in receipt of those monies or not so

we are going to change that so that affiliation fees follow the consent

of individual members. Secondly, we of individual members. Secondly we

want to make sure the individual trade union members, people who

teach our children, power via -- teach our children, power via -

fantastic British businesses, we want them to make an active choice,

and we are also recognising that in this day and age not everybody wants

to become a member of a political party. We haven't got much time.

to become a member of a political party. We haven't got much time The

party. We haven't got much time. The unions still have 50% of the vote at

Labour conferences, there will be the single most important vote, more

member -- union members will vote than nonunion members, their power

has not diminished at all, has it? In relation to the other parts of

the group of people who will be voting in a future leadership

contest, we are seeking to move towards more of a one member, one

vote process. At the moment we have the absurd situation where I, as a

member of Parliament, my vote will count for 1000. MPs are losing...

count for 1000. MPs are losing. . They still have a lot of power. I am

a member of the GMB union and the Unite union, also a member of the

Fabians as well so I get free votes on top of my vote as a member of

Parliament. We are moving to a system where I will have one vote

and that is an important part of this. You asked how many people

would be casting their votes. The last time around, under the

old system, up to 2.8 million ballot papers were sent out with prepaid

envelopes for people to return their papers were sent out with prepaid

turnout. The idea that you are going to see a big change... Even if

your individual party members. In one vital way, your purse strings,

your individual party members. In the unions will be more powerful

than ever because at the moment they have to hand over 8 million to

than ever because at the moment they fraction of that now. They will get

to keep that money, but then come the election you go to them and give

them a lot of money -- and they will have you then. They won't have us,

as you put it! The idea that individual trade union members don't

have their own view, their own voice, and just do what their

general secretaries do is absurd. They will make their own decision,

and we want them to make that and not have their leadership decide

that for them. Let me go to the money. The Labour Party manifesto

will be reflecting the interests of Britain, and the idea that somehow

people can say we are not going to give you this money unless you do

this or that, we will give you a policy agenda which is appropriate

for the British people, regardless of what implications that may have

financially. They will have more seats than anybody else in the NEC

and they will hold the purse strings. They will be the

determining factor. They won't be. Unite is advocating a 70% rate of

income tax, there is no way we will have that in our manifesto. Unite is

advocating taking back contracts and no compensation basis, we would not

-- there is no way we would do that. How many chief executives of the

FTSE 100 are backing Labour? We have lots of chief executives backing

Labour. I don't know the exact number. Ed Miliband has just placed

an important business person in the House of Lords, the former chief

executive of the ITV, Bill Grimsey. How many? You can only name one

Bill Grimsey, there is also John Mills. Anyone who is currently

chairman of the chief executive? With the greatest respect, you are

talking about less than half the percent of business leaders in our

country, we have almost 5 million businesses, not all FTSE 100

businesses, not all listed, and we are trying to get people from across

the country of all different shapes and sizes. Let's widen it to the

FTSE 250. That is 250 out of 5 million companies. The largest ones,

they make the profits and provide the jobs. Two thirds of private

sector jobs in this country come from small and medium-sized

businesses, and small and medium-sized businesses are an

important part of a large companies supply chains. So you cannot name a

single chairman from the FTSE 250, correct? I don't know all the

chairman. Are you going to fight the next election without a single boss

of a FTSE 250 company? I have named some important business people, but

the most important thing is that we are not coming out with a manifesto

for particular interests, but for broader interest. Let me show you,

Digby Jones says Labour's policy is, "if it creates wealth, let's kick

it" . Another quote, that it borders on predatory taxation. They think

you are anti-business. I don't agree with them. One of the interesting

things about Sir Stuart's comments on the predatory taxation and I

think he was referring to the 50p think he was referring to the 5 p

rate of tax is that he made some comments arguing against the

reduction of the top rate of tax from 50p. He is saying something

different now. Digby of course has his own opinions, he has never been

a member of the Labour Party. Let me come onto this business of the top

rate of tax, do you accept or don't you that there is a point when

higher rates of income tax become counter-productive? Ultimately you

want to have the lowest tax rates possible. Do you accept there is a

certain level you actually get less money? I think ultimately there is a

level beyond you could go which would be counter-productive, for

example the 75% rate of tax I mentioned earlier, being advocated

by Unite in France. Most French higher earners will pay less tax

than under your plans. I beg your pardon, with the 50p? Under your

proposals, people here will pay more tax than French higher earners. If

you are asking if in terms of the level, you asked the question and I

answered it, do I think if you reach a level beyond which the tax burden

becomes counter-productive, can I give you a number what that would

be, I cannot but let me explain - the reason we have sought to

increase its two 50p is that we can get in revenue to reduce the

deficit. In an ideal world you wouldn't need a 50p rate of tax

which is why during our time in office we didn't have one, because

we didn't have those issues. Sure, though you cannot tell me how much

the 50p will raise. In the three years of operation we think it

raised ?10 billion. You think. That was based on extrapolation from the

British library. It is at least possible I would suggest, for the

sake of argument, that when you promise to take over half people's

income, which is what you will do if you get your way, the richest 1%

currently account for 70 5% of all tax revenues. -- 75%. Is it not a

danger that if you take more out of them, they will just go? I don't

think so, we are talking about the top 1% here. If you look at the

directors of sub 5 million turnover companies, the average managing

director of that gets around ?87,000. Let me narrow it down to

something else. Let's take the .1% something else. Let's take the 0.1%

of top taxpayers, down to fewer than 30,000 people. They account for over

14% of all of the income tax revenues. Only 29,000 people. If

they go because you are going to take over half their income, you

have lost a huge chunk of your tax base. They could easily go, at

tipping point they could go. What we are advocating here is not

controversial. Those with the broadest shoulders, it is not

unreasonable to ask them to share the heavier burden. Can you name one

other major economy that subscribes to this? Across Europe, for example

in Sweden they have higher tax rates than us. Can you name one major

economy? I couldn't pluck one out of the air, I can see where you are

coming from, I don't agree with it. I think most people subscribe to the

fact that those with wider shoulders should carry the heavy a burden. We

should carry the heavy a burden We have run out of time but thank you

for being here. Over the past week it seems that

Nick Clegg has activated a new Lib Dem strategy - 'Get Gove'. After a

very public spat over who should head up the schools inspection

service Ofsted, Lib Dem sources have continued to needle away at the

Education Secretary. And other senior Lib Dems have also taken aim

at their coalition partners. Here's Giles Dilnot. It's unlikely the

polite welcome of these school children to Lib Dem leader Nick

Clegg and his party colleague schools minister David Laws would be

so forthcoming right now from the man in charge of schools

Conservative Michael Gove. Mr Laws is said to have been furious with

The Education secretary over the decision to remove Sally Morgan as

chair of Ofsted. But those who know the inner working of the Lib Dems

say that's just understandable. When you have the department not being

consulted, it would be possible for him to not publicly comment. The

remarkable thing would be if he hadn't said anything at all. We

should be careful to understand this is not always part of a preplanned

decision. There is a growing sense that inside Number Ten this is a

concerted Lib Dem strategy, we also understand there is no love lost

between Nick Clegg and Michael Gove to say the least, and a growing

frustration that if the Lib Dems think such so-called yellow and blue

attacks can help them with the election, they can also damage the

long-term prospects of the Coalition post 2015. One spat does not a

divorce make but perhaps even more significant has been Chief Secretary

to the Treasury Danny Alexander's to the Treasury Danny Alexander s

recent newspaper interview firmly spiking any room for George Osborne

to manoeuvre on lowering the highest income tax rate to 40p. All this

builds on the inclusion in Government at the reshuffle of

people like Norman Baker at the Home Office and Simon Hughes at Justice

people who are happier to publically express doubt on Conservative

policy, unlike say Jeremy Browne who was removed and who has made plain

his views on Coalition. It is difficult for us to demonstrate that

we are more socialist than an Ed Miliband Labour led party. Even if

we did wish to demonstrate it, doing it in coalition with the

Conservatives would be harder still. Nonetheless a differentiation

strategy was always likely as 2015 strategy was always likely as 2 15

approached, so is there evidence it works? Or of the work we publish

shows the Lib Dems have a huge problem in terms of their

distinctiveness, so attacking their coalition partners or the Labour

Party is helpful in showing what they are against, but there are

bigger problem is showing what they are for. And one Conservative MP

with access to Number Ten as part of the PM's policy board says yellow on

blue attacks are misplaced and irresponsible. At this stage when

all the hard work is being done and the country is back on its feet, the

Lib Dems are choosing the time to step away from the coalition. That

is your position, but do you suspect coming up to the next election we

will see more of this? I think the Lib Dems are about as hard to pin

down as a weasel in Vaseline. And with the public's view of

politicians right now, and wants to be seen as slicker than a well oiled

weasel? And we have Lib Dem peer Matthew Oakeshott and senior

Conservative backbencher Bernard Jenkin. Matthew, the Lib Dems are

now picking fights with the Tories on a range of issues, some of them

trivial. Is this a Pirelli used to Lib Dem withdrawal from the

coalition? I do not know, I am not privy to Nick Clegg's in strategy.

Some of us have been independent for some time. I resigned over treatment

of the banks. That is now being sorted out. But what is significant

is we have seen a string of attacks, almost an enemy within strategy.

When you have Nick Clegg, David Laws and Danny Alexander, the three key

people closest to the Conservatives, when you see all of them attacking,

and this morning Nick Clegg has had a go at the Conservatives over drug

policy. There is a string of policies where something is going

on. It is difficult to do an enemy within strategy. I believe as many

Lib Dems do that we should withdraw from the coalition six months to one

year before the election so we can put our positive policies across

rather than having this tricky strategy of trying to do it from

within. Why does David Cameron need the Lib Dems? He probably does not.

The country generally favoured the coalition to start with. Voters like

to see politicians are working together and far more of that goes

on in Westminster then we see. Most of my committee reports are

unanimous reports from all parties. Why does he need them? I do not

think he does. You would be happy to see the Lib Dems go? I would always

be happy to see a single minority Government because it would be

easier for legislation. The legislation you could not get

through would not get through whether we were in coalition or

not. The 40p tax rate, there probably is not a majority in the

House of Commons at the moment, despite what Nick Clegg originally

said. It does not make much difference. What makes a difference

from the perspective of the committee I chair is historically we

have had single party Government that have collective responsibility

and clarity. The reason that is important is because nothing gets

done if everybody is at sixes and sevens in the Government. Everything

stops, there is paralysis as the row goes on. Civil servants do not know

who they are working for. If it carries on getting fractures, there

is a bigger argument to get out. If it continues at this level of

intensity of the enemy within strategy as you have described it,

can the coalition survived another 16 months of this? It is also a

question should they. I never thought I would say this, I agree

with Bernard. Interestingly earlier Chuka Umunna missed the point

talking about business support. Business is worried about this

anti-European rhetoric and that is a deep split between the Liberal

Democrats and the UKIP wing of the Tory party. That is really damaging

and that is something we need to make our own case separately on.

and that is something we need to make our own case separately on Do

you get fed up when you hear constant Lib Dem attacks on you?

constant Lib Dem attacks on you What makes me fed up is my own party

cannot respond in kind because we are in coalition. I would love to

have this much more open debate I would like to see my own party

leader, for example as he did in the House of Commons, it was the Liberal

Democrats who blocked the referendum on the house of lords and if we want

to get this bill through it should be a Government bill. We know we can

get it through the Commons, but we need to get the Liberals out of the

Government so they stop blocking the Government putting forward a

referendum bill. And put millions of jobs at risk? I am not going down

the European road today. It strikes me that given that the attacks from

the Lib Dems are now coming from the left attacking the Tories, is this a

representative of the failure of Nick Clegg's strategy to rebuild a

centrist Liberal party and he now accepts the only way he can save as

many seats as he can do is to get the disillusioned left Lib Dem

voters to come back to the fold? the disillusioned left Lib Dem

voters to come back to the fold The site is we have lost over half our

vote at the last election and at the moment there is no sign in the polls

of it coming back and we are getting very close to the next election. I

welcome it if Nick Clegg is starting to address that problem, but talking

about the centre is not the answer. Most Liberal Democrat voters at the

last election are radical, progressive people who want to see a

much fairer Britain and a much less divided society and we must make

sure we maximise our vote from there. We know what both of you

want, but what do you think will happen? Do you think this coalition

will survive all the way to the election or will it break up

beforehand? I think it will break up beforehand. Our long-term economic

plan is working. The further changes in policies we want to implement to

sustain that plan are being held back by the Liberal Democrats. When

will they break up? It has lasted longer than I thought it would, but

it must break up at least six months before the election. Do you think it

will survive or not? The coalition has delivered a great deal in many

ways, but it is running out of steam. It depends what happens in

the May elections. If the Liberal Democrats do not do better than we

have done in the last three, there will be very strong pressure from

the inside. You both agree. Television history has been made.

You are watching the Sunday Politics. Coming up: I will be

looking at Hello and welcome to Sunday Politics

in the East. Coming up later in the programme:

New plans to help victims of domestic violence raise questions

about why they are taking so long. It has been progressing but I would

say, from my perspective, it has not been progressing enough. And there

is no place like home ` the growing number of people receiving hospice

care in a familiar setting. I think people think hospitals are the best

place but sometimes home... More often than not home.

First though, let's meet our guests ` Alistair Burt, the MP for

Bedfordshire, and Tim Young, Labour's Parliamentary candidate for

Clacton. Let's start with the deselection of South Suffolk MP Tim

Yeo this week. He of course lost a vote among all constituency party

members after being accused by its executive of being virtually

invisible. I think it is just a lack of visibility. I think a lot of

members felt that we needed a little bit more input. And South Suffolk

and Suffolk generally, being a blue area, really hasn't had

infrastructure investment and I think we would have liked to have

seen a bit more of that coming through. I believe... I have had a

home there for 31 years, I have led campaigns to keep the health

facility in Sudbury. I took part in the joint campaign to stop the A14

from being tolled. I protected the countryside in my constituency being

covered in electricity pylons. I think anybody who cares about those

issues will know I did the best possible job for the constituency.

Alistair, David Cameron backed Tim Yeo. Does it look like he is losing

control of the party? Is this a Tory spring, do you think? No, I don't

think so. In any case of deselection, there are usually

long`standing issues. We have a very democratic party. They make the

decisions about who the candidates are and I don't think it designates

anything more than the normal run of these things, where you would see

one or two deselections in a parliament. Tim Young, Labour of

course not immune to these type of wrangles. How do you keep the

constituency members happy? I think you have to work with them and be

visible and I think that is one of the criticisms that has been

levelled at Tim Yeo. But I do think it does show a rightward shift of

the Conservative party. Because people like Tim Yeo, he had light

views on climate change, in favour of gay marriage and I think, you

know, they have got rid of him. I think that is part of the reason. I

will be very surprised... Is that part of the reason? I would be very

surprised if there is not a rightward shift in the person they

do select. Alistair? I don't think so. Again, knowing something of the

background with the deselections that have taken place recently,

these are long`standing issues where an association has been in

discussion for a lengthy period of time with their MP. I am not going

to get into that. I mean, these are my colleagues. But... All right. You

have been the Foreign Minister, you have been away for a couple of

years, in the Middle East. Are you worried about neglecting your

constituents? I have not been away for a couple of years. I have been

doing my constituency business every weekend. I have been home. I was on

Government duty abroad as a minister. This week I have been at

the local hospital, a power station, handling a school problem, dealing

with an issue of the supposed moving of the Magistrates' Court from

Bedford to Luton and I have already been reselected by my association.

Very briefly. First Anne Macintosh and now Tim Yeo, moderate

Conservatives, mainstream Conservatives, both reselected.

There does seem to be a pattern emerging. I think you want to stick

to your own party. OK. Work out your problems in Falkirk and leave us to

sort out ours. All right, we will leave it there. Thank you. Now to

the issue of domestic abuse. Over the last few years, there have been

four high`profile deaths in Essex where the police have been

criticised for not doing enough. It is believed there are 44,000 victims

in the county each year. Now, there will be special advisers in local

hospitals to spot the signs of abuse in people who may be too scared to

ask for help. The initiative is part of a community budgets pilot

designed to get public bodies to work together to tackle the problem.

It started in the county in 2011 but we have been told that progress in

tackling domestic abuse has been too slow.

It wears you down to a shell of a person. You just become a robot.

There is nothing inside at all. You just wait for it to happen and then

once it is over, it is over. For nine years, this woman, who we're

calling Lucy, was in a relationship that became progressively more

abusive. And was the abuse physically violent? Not until I

became pregnant. That is really when it became physical. I remember I

used to snore really, really badly and I remember waking up to this

sharp blow to the stomach because I was snoring. And then I was like...

It was like I was too scared to sleep. I was too scared to fall

asleep, really. I wanted to protect me and my child but I knew that I

couldn't sleep, not when he was around. I was too scared. Lucy was

lucky. She escaped. Maria Stubbings, Jeanette Goodwin and Chrissie

Chambers, along with her daughter Shania, were all killed by abusive

partners in Essex. All three cases led to critical reports from the

Independent Police Complaints Commission and to a rethink of how

police, councils and others can help victims and catch perpetrators.

Independent domestic abuse advisers are now on maternity wards and in

Accident and Emergency departments in Essex hospitals, hoping to make

contact with victims who would not otherwise seek help. It is really

important that we do it here. We have access to clients who are in

hidden groups, who would not normally go to a domestic abuse

agency. They would always go to their hospital or GP and maybe

disclose domestic abuse. So what we are doing is closing the net to

catch all of the victims. We are asking them at an earlier interval

so it is early intervention. We have been able to reduce the risk, make

different arrangements for their well`being, their accommodation and

so we are keeping the residents of Essex safe. The idea would be that

we would wear these and it would record pretty much what we see and

experience when we go to an incident. Since last month, Essex

Police officers have been using body`worn video cameras when they

attend domestic incidents. It is trying to capture the evidence that

might have been missed otherwise. The exact comments made to us at the

scene. Often we will arrive at an incident that may still be

occurring, for instance may still be being committed when we arrive

there. And hopefully it will lead to more convictions for domestic abuse

that may otherwise have not led to a conviction. Essex is one of the

areas where the Government's community budgets are being piloted,

aiming to get public bodies working closer together. And there is a

specific focus in Essex on domestic violence. Every single medium or

high risk incident of domestic abuse that is known about in Essex is sent

here, to the Central Referral Unit, where police work with Social

Services and charities to make sure that victims get the support that

they need. You talk about how everybody is now

working together across Essex. We have had community budgets here as a

trial for several years. Should that not already have been happening? It

has been impacting in some areas. I don't know the full extent of them

as it has happened before I came on board as such. And there have been

some key successes in other areas of the community budgets, in relation

to troubled families, family solutions and others. But as far as

domestic violence goes, it has not been successful? No, it has been

progressing. But I would say, from my perspective, it has not been

progressing enough. Do you think the work that is happening now in Essex

can stop us seeing a repeat of the domestic murders that we have seen

here in recent years? I don't think we can ever say never. But we can

certainly develop a process and hopefully a system that is effective

and efficient. Lucy says if she hadn't escaped her abusive partner,

she would not be here today. The question is whether the work

happening now in Essex is enough to save others in her situation.

Well, earlier I spoke to Nick Alston, Essex's Police and Crime

Commissioner, who made domestic violence his number one priority in

his manifesto. I asked him whether enough progress has been made. Well,

I would say... I think we have made a lot of progress over that time. Of

course I only came onto the scene 15 months ago. It took me a few months

to, you know, understand the priority. You heard what the

councillor had to say in the film. He has reservations. You're working

with him and he says that it is not progressing enough. Well, he is

sitting on the Essex Strategy Board with me. He makes a great

contribution. He brings that County Council perspective. And frankly, I

think we are really making progress. A lot has happened since I

took over that board in June. We now have the criminal justice agencies

working together to make sure we can make the court processes easier for

the victims. We've got housing meeting now, seeing how can we think

about housing to support them. We're working with a wonderful women's

refuge movement to free the women refugees we've got in Essex. How can

we supplement that by looking at housing? What about the

perpetrators? You know, if we can get the perpetrators taken away from

the victims, how are we going to house those? The Health Service have

stepped forward, really stepped forward really well in the last few

months. You saw in the film about the work that Safer Places are doing

in hospitals. I put money from my budgets into working with GPs. We

are putting money into trying to identify the problem before the

women, it often is women., you know, suffer 30 or more incidents of

domestic abuse before they contact the police. Let's get them

signposting earlier. Let's get them telling people about their problems

and getting those problems sorted. So I think Dick was saying, you

know, the first two years might have been a bit slow but the last year, a

lot has been happening. What about those community budgets? It is hard

to see how they have improved things. Is the money being used well

enough? For me, I mean community budgets did not mean too much to me

until I came to really understand it. What we have to do is spend our

money more sensibly to get upstream of the problem. Nick, I know you're

very well aware that one in four calls to Essex Police is about

domestic abuse. They are not all from women. Some are from men. When

will you be in a position so that things will change for these people

who are affected? They are changing now. They need to change faster and

we need to go further but there are changing. You're quite right to

highlight the problem, victims can be men. But we want to make sure

that we respond quickly, effectively every time. We want to reduce the

number of repeat incidents of domestic abuse and I think we are

making a difference. Are there guarantees? There will never be

guarantees. It always has happened and always will but the response is

getting better and will continue to. Thank you for joining us. So let's

talk about community budgets, first of all. Tim, you're very well aware

of these budgets. It is welcome money, is it not? It is welcome

money but where is the evidence that they are working? The thing about

pilots is that they are a test and then get rolled out if they are

successful. There is not a lot of evidence that the community budget

pilot in Essex has been successful. In Slough they don't seem to have

saved any money but I think domestic violence, Nick is also right, it is

the right area to concentrate on. `` they have been slow. Alistair, why

extend a pilot when we're not sure whether they have worked properly,

sufficiently well? There are only four of them in the country and they

essentially attempt to bring services together so they can be

handled in a more cohesive manner. I think it takes time to prove these

things on the ground but the evidence of what both your

correspondents were saying just now, in relation to domestic

violence, is that here is an area which has brought together to

services and advisers and the Government is spending ?40 million

to support advisers and specialist services for domestic violence. It

has brought together the issues in relation to housing. Bringing in the

issues relating to reporting. Because only one in four incidents

of domestic abuse is reported. All of these things are actually coming

together. So I would say you need time to see if this pilot is going

to be successful and learn the lessons. Tim, Nick also said he was

happy with progress on this. Are you happy? Over the last 12 months,

there has been progress and Nick has led some of that so I would agree

with that. This has been two, nearly three years now. I ask again, where

is the evidence that it works? I think there was criticism there,

from Essex County Council's representative, that progress has

been too slow. Alistair? We have to be very careful about where we lay

the blame here. The blame is with those who perpetrate violence. It is

unacceptable. And the change in culture that is necessary to allow

people to feel they can come forward and can report, they're going to be

treated in a better way, this is a long`term, cumulative process. It is

better now than it was, as everyone reports, but is still not good

enough. The climate of fear in relation to this has got to be

overcome. There has got to be much more confidence in people, in terms

of talking about it. And also agencies and all the support that is

going in, and there is over 100 different action plans. The

Government is working on one very long`term programme which commenced

in 2010 and has been through two action plans since. It is cumulative

in changing the culture and atmosphere to make sure that

perpetrators feel they are wrong, not those who experience violence.

We will move on. Thank you. Perhaps we do not to dwell on it but

we will all have to decide how we would like to end our lives. The

hospice movement, which provides support for tens of thousands of

people across the region is changing, caring for more and more

of us in our own homes. Gareth George reports.

Nearing the end of his life, Christopher needs round`the`clock

care. Because Chris's pain is often quite high, we give a flat dose

injection of pain relief and anti`anxiety medication. For

Christopher, time is extremely precious. Because he is at home, not

in a hospital or a hospice, he sees his two`year`old son Euan every

single day. Just being at home with my family... With my possessions

around me... And do you think other people should be given the

opportunity to stay at home if they want to as well? Yeah, absolutely.

Christopher's wife Karen is his full`time carer. She wants him to

die in his own home. Yes, definitely. And how important will

that be for you? Extremely important. From the minute we met,

just we promised each other that we would be there. That I would be

there. That's what we intended to do. It's very difficult. The

emotions that he swings through in a day just leave you absolutely

emotionally exhausted. `` that you swing through. You can go from being

angry to being happy to being full of, "Why? Why is this the way it

is?" You know, Chris and I have only been together for a short period of

time and so whatever time we can have together is important to us. It

does not make it easy but it is important to us. Yes. Chris and

Karen are supported by nurses from the Arthur Rank hospice in

Cambridge. For Chris and I, the hospice team, it is not just the

physical help that they give us or the medical help but the emotional

support. It is really important. I think people think hospitals are the

best place or hospices are the best place. But sometimes home. More

often than not home is the best place.

And the demand for all hospice services is increasing right across

the region, as our elderly population rises more quickly than

the national average. According to a recent survey carried out by a

hopice, almost two thirds of people over 65 are concerned there won't be

enough hospice care available in the future. It has been hugely

successful as a service. We have been averaging 2000 calls per month,

which has only been running three or four months, so that's a good

illustration of the demand that is out there. We are also starting to

introduce this month a new rapid response element to the service. So

the feedback so far has been very favourable from patients' families

and local GPs. We will hoping to continue to develop and improve the

service and that it will meet the need that is out there. Alistair, a

growing and ageing population yet no more specific funding for hospice

care. That is not right, is it? Well, in a debate in December, the

Public Health Minister made clear that there is more support for

hospices. There has been an extra ?60 million this year. But is it

ongoing? Well, it will be. The whole process of care for those who are

dying has changed markedly over our generation. Many more people now can

go to hospices. There is a growing movement for home care. There are

nine projects going on in terms of adult palliative care, one in terms

of children care to see that what the ongoing costs are and how these

will be worked through by NHS commissioners. This is a process, we

are going to see more of the sort of care we have seen being displayed by

Karen today because there is going to be more need for it. And there

will be more support. But Tim, Labour failed to deliver on its

election pledge in 2005 to double investment in the area. And since

then demand has grown. Absolutely and I do not think this should be a

party political issue. That was a really emotional film and there is a

hospice that does great work in north`east Essex, it covers Clacton

and Colchester. And we saw the chief executive just explain that. The ?60

million capital, that is not revenue money, it is coming from the

Government. Yes, where to find the money from? Only one third of

funding comes from the Government and they do great fundraising

initiatives. Is that balance right? Probably not in this day and age.

But where do we find it? The balance as changed over time. We started

with none whatsoever and it has gradually increased. Absolutely.

What the Government is looking at now with its programmes studying

palliative care is to whether or not that balance still needs to change.

The costs are increasing for care of the elderly right across`the`board

and this will have to be incorporated into it. People's

choice about how they die is going to become increasingly important.

This ?1 million hospices need to find everyday collectively, is that

sustainable? I do not think it is but I think this is something that

should be discussed cross party because this is an issue that is

going to get more of a problem over time because there is more like

limiting illnesses,more long term conditions but people are living

longer. We need to get together, put our collective brains together. Do

you agree, Alistair? And how you divide the care, because it will not

come to hospitals. More comes through primary care and GPs. Then

the stuff that comes through from charities and hospices. It is a

mixture. I think what we have got to remain absolutely centred on is what

the need of the patient is, the need of the family, and trying to provide

it in its most flexible way possible. I think that is right.

Thank you for that. Now, it is all systems go on political round`up

this week, with buses and trains in the firing line.

The millionaire who founded the inspiration trust which runs several

schools in Norfolk is tipped to become the new head of Ofsted.

Parents and ethics might have to pay to send their children to school if

there are bus service is axed. It will come in at about ?500 per

year. will come in at about ?500 per

Financial worries at Bedford Hospital over a contract for

services including hip replacement, which some believe could threaten

the economic stability of the whole hospital. Potentially other services

because no service stands alone. It was the local train service that

came in for criticism from an MP in transport questions. Greater Anglia

railways, who must have the most clapped`out, hearty stock in the

world. The Minister had a suggestion. The bus service

frequently fails to arrive or breaks down when it does. Could I recommend

that Stagecoach orders a new fleet of buses made in my constituency?

Tim, of course you are familiar with the Essex trains, are they as bad as

they are made out? Is maybe the one and only time I agree him! Very

good. The rolling stock is pretty poor and pretty old. I have not

travelled on every railway in the world but it is pretty bad. Greater

Anglia do need to up their investment. Alistair, what about the

concerns of the viability of effort hospital? Just this month, we have

seen the return of paediatric services to Bedford because of great

work they have done to restore those from the problems they had in the

autumn. The issue about orthopaedics falls from a study that is being

carried out by local GPs and patients as to what services they

will want from the community. But are you concerned? Absolutely not. I

think the hospital is long`term absolutely viable because of the

quality of care but not everything will come from the hospital in the

same way as it used to because services are more flexible. We

should listen to the GPs and patients as well as the hospital. Do

you think the economic viability is under project? No, I do not. We have

to wait until the review of hospitals in the area is done. I am

sure that Bedford is a leading hospital and will have the quality

that determines its future. Alistair and Tim, thank you for joining us.

That is all for now. You can keep in touch through our website, where you

will also find lights to the blog. We are back next week. Now,

Londoners and particularly young Londoners who otherwise may not have

a voice. Both of you, thank you so much. Andrew, it is back to you.

a voice. Both of you, thank you so much. Andrew, it is back to you Can

much. Andrew, it is back to you. Can David Cameron get a grip on the

floods? Can UKIP push the Conservatives into third place in

the Wythenshawe by-election on Thursday? Is the speaker in the

House of Commons in danger of overheating? All questions over the

weekend. Let's look at the politics of the flooding. Let me show you a

clip from Eric Pickles, the Communities Secretary, earlier on

the BBC this morning. We perhaps relied too much on the Environment

Agency's advice. I apologise. I apologise unreservedly and I am

really sorry we took the advice of what we thought we were doing was

the best. The Environment Agency is being hung out to dry by the

Government and the Government has taken over the running of the

environmental mess in the Somerset Levels. It is turning into a serious

crisis by the Government and even more so for the people who are

dealing with the flooding. There is no doubt that what has been revealed

is it is not just about what the Government did or did not do six

months ago. What is being exposed is an entire culture within the

Environment Agency, fuelled often by European directives about dredging

and all manner of other things, a culture grew up in which plants were

put ahead of people if you like. culture grew up in which plants were

put ahead of people if you like All put ahead of people if you like. All

of that is collapsing in very difficult circumstances by the

Government and it is difficult for them to manage. Chris Smith would

save the Environment Agency is acting under a law set by this

Government and previous governments and the first priority is the

protection of life, second property and third agricultural land and he

is saying we are working within that framework. It is an edifying

spectacle, they are setting up Lord Smith to be the fall guy. His term

of office comes at the end of the summer and they will find something

new. But the point Lord Smith is making is that dredging is important

and it was a mistake not to dredge, but it is a bigger picture than

that. I am no expert, but you need a whole skill solution that is looking

not just bad dredging, but at the whole catchment area looking at the

production of maize. It is harvested in autumn and then the water runs

off the topsoil. You see the pictures of the flooding, it is all

topsoil flooding through those towns. What you have got to have in

the uplands is some land that can absorb that water and there are

really big questions about the way we carry out farming. Chris Smith

was meant to appear on the Andrew Marr show this morning, but pulled

back at the last minute. There must be doubts as to whether he can

survive to the summer. Where is the chief executive of the Environment

Agency? I agree with Nick that Chris Smith has been setup in this

situation. David Cameron went to the Somerset Levels on Friday for about

half an hour, in and out, with no angry people shouting at him. You to

a farm. It is agreed he has had good crisis. But we are seen as being a

London media class who does not understand the countryside. You can

imagine David Cameron in a pair of wellies. If this was happening in

Guildford, it would not have dragged on for so long. Looe it is

interesting how they are saying the Environment Agency has put words in

front of everything else. The great-great-grandson of Queen

Victoria thinks people should be sacked at the whim. He is talking

about how the Environment Agency spent ?31 million on a bird

sanctuary. It turns out the bird sanctuary was an attempt to put up a

flood defence system for a village which has worked. That village has

been saved. They compensated some farmers for the farmland they were

not going to be able to farm and put a flood defence system further back

to protect this village and then they built a bird sanctuary. It was

not ?31 million to create a bird sanctuary, it was to save a village

and it worked. But in 2008 the Environment Agency was talking about

dynamiting every pumping agency. There was a metropolitan mindset on

the part of that agency. If it does what Owen Paterson, who is now off

in an eye operation, suggested a plan to fix this, they will find a

lot of what they want or need to do will be in contravention of European

directives. The Wythenshawe by-election. There is no question

Labour is going to win, probably incredibly convincingly, one poll

showing 60% plus of the vote. It would be surprising if Labour was in

any threat up there. The issue is, does UKIP beat the Tories and if so,

by how much? The latest poll was showing it in second place as nip

and tuck, but the feeling I have is UKIP will do better. And they have

got a great local candidate. The Tories have not parachuted somebody

in and they have got a local man in and that will help them. We have all

been waiting to see if the Tories lose their head, but they might go

chicken earlier than that. Will UKIP come second? It looks like that A

come second? It looks like that. A poll this week showed that Labour is

way ahead and UKIP possibly second. But it is an important by-election

for UKIP. If they do well in the European elections, they should

still be on a roll. They did really well in by-elections last year. If

they do not do well, is it because they are not on payroll? Or in

Manchester they have a fantastic leader of the council? Will UKIP

come a good second? I think they will and if they do not, it might

suggest Nigel Farage is losing its slightly. One thing to look out for

is how little Labour are attacking UKIP. Their election strategy relies

a lot on UKIP taking Tory votes. But it could also take Labour votes.

Particularly in the north and we shall see. The results will be out

on Thursday night. The Speaker of the House of Commons, John Bird ,

the House of Commons, John Bird: , his interventions have become more

frequent and something was strange. Have a look. I am grateful to the

honourable gentleman. Order, the Government Chief Whip has absolutely

no business whatsoever shouting from a sedentary position. Order, the

honourable gentleman will remain in the chamber. If we could tackle this

problem. I say to the honourable member for Bridgwater, be quiet,

problem. I say to the honourable member for Bridgwater, be quiet if

member for Bridgwater, be quiet, if you cannot be quiet, get out, it is

rude, stupid and pompous and it needs to stop. Michael Gove. Order.

You really... Order. You are a very over excitable individual. You need

to write out 1000 times, I will behave myself at Prime Minister 's

questions. He was talking to the Education Secretary and it is not

1000 lines, it is 100 lines, at least it was in my day. Is he

beginning to make a fool of himself? There was only one over excitable

person there and that was the speaker and he is losing the

confidence of the Conservative MPs, but he never had that in the first

place. But he is an incredibly reforming speaker. He has this

strange idea that Parliament should hold the Government to account. It

will never catch on. It means very frequently there are urgent

questions. The other day he called a backbench amendment on the

deportation of foreign criminals. He could have found a way not to call

that. He is a real reformer and the executive do not like that. That is

true and he has allowed Parliament to flourish which has given us room

to breathe at a time of a coalition Government when Parliament has more

power. That is all that enough to overcome these increasingly mannered

and some of them may be preplanned interventions? The last one was last

week, and last week the speaker had a rather stressful week with the

tabloids. Something is clearly up. I think it is a real shame. I think

many of us when he was elected did not think he would make a great

speaker and there are people like Douglas Carswell and Tory rebels who

have said he is a fantastic speaker. He has given the Commons room to

breathe and he has called on ministers to be held to account when

they do not want to be. What do you think? He is seen as anti-government

and he is pro-backbencher and that is what people do not like. People

like Douglas Carswell are actually very strongly in support of him We

carry the interventions every week on Prime Minister 's questions and

we see them every week and they are getting a bit more eccentric. If I

was having to keep that under control, I would be driven slowly

mad. But his job is easier than mine. But if you look at his

deputy, Eleanor Laing, she is very robust, but she is calm. Chap who

does the budget is excellent. We are on throughout the week at midday on

BBC Two. We will be back next Sunday at 11. If it is Sunday, it is the

Sunday Politics.