Browse content similar to 16/02/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Good morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. It would be | :00:38. | :00:44. | |
extremely difficult, if not impossible, for an independent | :00:45. | :00:47. | |
Scotland to join the European Union, so says the President of the | :00:48. | :00:51. | |
European Commission, Jose Manuel Barroso, in a significant | :00:52. | :00:56. | |
development in the independence debate. It's our top story. He has | :00:57. | :01:00. | |
the power to bring travel chaos to the nation's capital. Bob Crow | :01:01. | :01:09. | |
joined us for the Sunday interview. Another by-election and another | :01:10. | :01:11. | |
find out the latest on the weather on the radio. | :01:12. | :01:16. | |
With me, the best and brightest political panel in the business The | :01:17. | :01:43. | |
twits will be as incessant and probably as welcome as the recent | :01:44. | :01:44. | |
rain. A significant new probably as welcome as the recent | :01:45. | :01:47. | |
in the debate over Scottish independence this morning, the | :01:48. | :01:50. | |
President of the European Commission, President Jose Manuel | :01:51. | :01:56. | |
Barroso, has confirmed what the Nationalists have long denied, that | :01:57. | :01:59. | |
an independent Scotland would have to reply to join the European Union | :02:00. | :02:02. | |
as a new member, that it would require the agreement of all 28 | :02:03. | :02:07. | |
member states and that would be in his words, extremely difficult, if | :02:08. | :02:10. | |
not impossible. In case there is a new country, a new state coming out | :02:11. | :02:15. | |
of a current member state, it will have to apply and, this is very | :02:16. | :02:21. | |
important, the application to the union would have to be approved by | :02:22. | :02:25. | |
all of the other member states. Countries like Spain, with the | :02:26. | :02:32. | |
secessionist issues they have? I don't want to interfere in your | :02:33. | :02:37. | |
democratic discussion here, but of course, it will be extremely | :02:38. | :02:40. | |
difficult to get the approval of all of the other member states, to have | :02:41. | :02:45. | |
a new member coming in from one member state. We have seen that that | :02:46. | :02:53. | |
Spain has been opposing even the recognition, for instance, so it is | :02:54. | :02:58. | |
a similar state. It is a new country. I believe it is great to be | :02:59. | :03:00. | |
externally difficult, if not impossible. Well, he says he doesn't | :03:01. | :03:07. | |
want to interfere, but he has just dropped a medium-sized explosive | :03:08. | :03:10. | |
into the debate on Scottish independence? A huge story. Alex | :03:11. | :03:14. | |
Salmond must be wondering what is going to go wrong next. His pitch to | :03:15. | :03:19. | |
the Scottish people is based on two things, the currency union with | :03:20. | :03:22. | |
England and the rest of the United Kingdom, which was blown apart last | :03:23. | :03:29. | |
week, and this morning, his claims that Scotland would automatically | :03:30. | :03:41. | |
get into the European Union has been dynamited. He's not only saying that | :03:42. | :03:47. | |
they would have to apply, it is also saying it might be impossible to get | :03:48. | :03:54. | |
the agreement of all 28 members to allow Scotland in. That's even more | :03:55. | :03:58. | |
significant than the application? The reference to Spain is | :03:59. | :04:02. | |
interesting, we talk about Catalan independence, an economic and active | :04:03. | :04:07. | |
area that Spain does not want to be independent. About five other | :04:08. | :04:11. | |
countries are blocking Kosovo's accession to the EU. There is no | :04:12. | :04:15. | |
reason they would want to encourage the secessionist in their country by | :04:16. | :04:20. | |
letting Scotland do the same. If Scotland does have to apply, and it | :04:21. | :04:22. | |
does get in, Scotland does have to apply, and it | :04:23. | :04:26. | |
problem because all new members have to accept the Euro? At the moment, | :04:27. | :04:32. | |
the SNP are rejecting that quite strongly. What an interesting | :04:33. | :04:36. | |
intervention today. However, I know that those arguing that Scotland | :04:37. | :04:43. | |
should stay in the union are worried that the polls are tightening. A lot | :04:44. | :04:49. | |
of these interventions, parents care arguments, they don't look like they | :04:50. | :04:55. | |
are convincing the Scottish people. We haven't had any polls yet? We | :04:56. | :04:59. | |
haven't, but we have since the currency debate was reignited in the | :05:00. | :05:02. | |
last few weeks and it shows the polls tightening slightly. I think | :05:03. | :05:07. | |
Alistair Darling's campaign would prefer to be much further ahead at | :05:08. | :05:10. | |
the stage. They are worried that these technical commandments are not | :05:11. | :05:15. | |
having much sway. Are the polls tightening slightly? They | :05:16. | :05:16. | |
having much sway. Are the polls within the statistical margin for | :05:17. | :05:23. | |
error. They are, but not much. Alex Salmond's main page is one of | :05:24. | :05:27. | |
reassurance. He wants to say you can vote for independence, a pound in | :05:28. | :05:30. | |
the pocket will be the same as before and you will still be a | :05:31. | :05:34. | |
member of the European Union. In the last three or four matter days, both | :05:35. | :05:39. | |
of those claims have been blown apart. Angus MacNeil has already | :05:40. | :05:46. | |
told BBC Radio 5 Live that the remarks are nonsense and he is | :05:47. | :05:49. | |
playing more politics. We hope to speak to the SNP's finance minister, | :05:50. | :05:54. | |
John Swinney, a little bit later in the programme. It is not just the | :05:55. | :05:58. | |
constant rain that London commuters have had to deal with. There was | :05:59. | :06:01. | |
also a strike on the tube that disrupted the travel of millions. A | :06:02. | :06:06. | |
second stoppage was on the cards, but it was called off at the last | :06:07. | :06:09. | |
minute. The leader of the biggest | :06:10. | :06:13. | |
underground workers union, the RMT, is Bob Crow, who has led his members | :06:14. | :06:19. | |
into 24 strikes on the tube since 2005, as well as disputes on the | :06:20. | :06:23. | |
national rail network. Under his leadership, the union's membership | :06:24. | :06:27. | |
has grown from 57,000 in 2002 to more than 80,000, at a time when | :06:28. | :06:31. | |
union membership overall has been shrinking. The current dispute has | :06:32. | :06:36. | |
seen Bob Crow squaring up to Boris Johnson over the mayor's plans to | :06:37. | :06:40. | |
close tube station ticket offices. The 48-hour stoppage at the | :06:41. | :06:43. | |
beginning of this month is estimated to have cost the London economy ?100 | :06:44. | :06:48. | |
million. The two sides have agreed a truce, for now, but Mr Crow has | :06:49. | :06:52. | |
threatened further action if the mayor imposes his changes. | :06:53. | :06:57. | |
Bob Crow joins me now for the Sunday interview. | :06:58. | :07:06. | |
Welcome to the Sunday Politics. You have suspended the strike for the | :07:07. | :07:13. | |
moment. What will it take to call it off entirely? Want to know first of | :07:14. | :07:18. | |
all wider booking office has to close. The Mayor of London made it | :07:19. | :07:21. | |
quite clear in his election programme that the booking offices | :07:22. | :07:24. | |
would remain open. It was strange, really, because Ken Livingstone | :07:25. | :07:28. | |
wanted to close them down and the mayor thought it was popular to keep | :07:29. | :07:31. | |
them open and put in his campaign to keep them open. However, we have not | :07:32. | :07:37. | |
the news figures. We are being told only 3% of people use the booking | :07:38. | :07:40. | |
offices. That's not true. In research done, if somebody does to a | :07:41. | :07:44. | |
booking office with somebody sitting there and asks for a ticket of less | :07:45. | :07:47. | |
than ?5, they are not allowed to sell them a ticket, it is madness. | :07:48. | :07:54. | |
Do you use the ticket office? When it is open, yes. You said to ITV | :07:55. | :07:59. | |
that he didn't. I don't know what I said to ITV, I don't know what time | :08:00. | :08:04. | |
people use them, sometimes they are open and sometimes they are closed. | :08:05. | :08:07. | |
People make out that these ticket office staff are people that sit | :08:08. | :08:11. | |
behind barriers like a newsagent. I'm not knocking a newsagent, | :08:12. | :08:15. | |
however, these people were the same people treated like Lions when they | :08:16. | :08:21. | |
were helping people named in the terrorist incidents, taking them out | :08:22. | :08:26. | |
of the panels. Suddenly they are lazy people that sit in ticket | :08:27. | :08:30. | |
offices. My understanding is that the people would come from behind | :08:31. | :08:34. | |
and be out and about now. It is the management wants to run the | :08:35. | :08:38. | |
underground without ticket offices, isn't that their prerogative? They | :08:39. | :08:43. | |
are paid to manage, not you, not your members, they are the managers? | :08:44. | :08:49. | |
Managers are there to manage, and we want good managers. But we've got | :08:50. | :08:52. | |
some really bad managers that are not looking at the railway as a | :08:53. | :08:55. | |
whole. This is a successful industry, not an industry in | :08:56. | :08:58. | |
decline, one of the most successful in Britain. It is moving 3.4 million | :08:59. | :09:02. | |
people a day. All of the forecast is or it will move to 3.6 million per | :09:03. | :09:07. | |
day. The mayor wants to run services on a Friday and Saturday night. We | :09:08. | :09:11. | |
are not opposed to that. However, it does not make sense that if more | :09:12. | :09:14. | |
people are going to be using the tube on Friday and Saturday, coming | :09:15. | :09:19. | |
home at two o'clock three o'clock in the morning, a lot of people | :09:20. | :09:22. | |
drinking, a lot of people not dragging, why take 1000 people of | :09:23. | :09:29. | |
the network that come to the aid of people that are looking to people? I | :09:30. | :09:33. | |
want to show you this picture. This is you. Taking a break in Brazil, I | :09:34. | :09:40. | |
think it is. I was trying to copy you. You deserve this break because | :09:41. | :09:45. | |
you have done a fantastic job for your members. Yes, I don't see what | :09:46. | :09:50. | |
that has got to do with it. Let s get every editor of the daily | :09:51. | :09:53. | |
newspapers and see where they go on their holidays, I would like to | :09:54. | :09:57. | |
know. What I choose to do... I'm not attacking you for doing that... | :09:58. | :10:02. | |
You've got a picture up there, I've got to say, why don't they go and | :10:03. | :10:05. | |
follow Boris Johnson when he was away on holiday, when the riots were | :10:06. | :10:10. | |
taking place in London, and he refused to come back? Why don't they | :10:11. | :10:13. | |
go and view the editors of newspapers, where they go on | :10:14. | :10:16. | |
holiday? Why do they look at you when you go on holiday? They | :10:17. | :10:20. | |
sometimes do, actually. The basic pay of a tube driver will soon be | :10:21. | :10:27. | |
?52,000. Ticket office workers are already earning over ?35,000. Never | :10:28. | :10:32. | |
mind a holiday on Copacabana beach, or membership by your house for what | :10:33. | :10:35. | |
you have done for them? When you look at the papers this morning I | :10:36. | :10:39. | |
see that Wayne Rooney is going to get a ?70 million deal over the next | :10:40. | :10:43. | |
four deals. I see NHS doctors are getting ?3000 a shift. I see a lot | :10:44. | :10:51. | |
of people that do a lot of people that, in my opinion, don't do | :10:52. | :10:55. | |
anything for society. The top paid people in this country should be | :10:56. | :10:58. | |
doctors and nurses. Unfortunately, we live in a jungle. If you are not | :10:59. | :11:02. | |
strong, the bosses will walk all over you. The reason why we got good | :11:03. | :11:06. | |
terms and conditions is because we fought for them. The reality is all | :11:07. | :11:11. | |
of these three political parties, liberals, Tories and Labour, they | :11:12. | :11:15. | |
have all put no programme that to defend working people. So we have to | :11:16. | :11:19. | |
do it on our own. And that is why you have done such a great job for | :11:20. | :11:22. | |
your members and why union membership has been rising, people | :11:23. | :11:25. | |
want to be part of a successful operation. But it has come at a cost | :11:26. | :11:30. | |
for less well-paid workers, who travel on the cheap? If everyone | :11:31. | :11:36. | |
believes if London Underground tube workers take a pay freeze they are | :11:37. | :11:39. | |
going to redistribute the money to the rest of the workers that work on | :11:40. | :11:42. | |
the cheap... But the people that travel on the tube, let's look at | :11:43. | :11:47. | |
some of them, they are the ones that suffer from your strike action. The | :11:48. | :11:52. | |
starting salary of a cheap driver now, ?48,000. The starting salary | :11:53. | :11:57. | |
for a nurses only ?26,000, ?22, 00 for a young policeman, ?27,000 for a | :11:58. | :12:03. | |
teacher starting out. As your members have spread, they have had | :12:04. | :12:10. | |
to live through 24 strikes in 1 years to push up your members | :12:11. | :12:17. | |
wages. It's I'm all right Jack? The have put a pay freeze on by | :12:18. | :12:23. | |
conservatives and liberals. The police constables, so have the | :12:24. | :12:26. | |
teachers. We have had the ability to go and fight. The reality is, at the | :12:27. | :12:31. | |
end of the day, as I have said before, no one is going to put up | :12:32. | :12:36. | |
the cause for workers. Not one single party in parliament are | :12:37. | :12:40. | |
fighting the cause for workers. They all support privatisation, they all | :12:41. | :12:43. | |
support keeping the anti-trade union laws, they all support illegal wars | :12:44. | :12:47. | |
around the world. Unless they have a fighting trade union, our members | :12:48. | :12:52. | |
pay would be as low as some others. You said we could not care less if | :12:53. | :12:56. | |
we have 1 million strikes. But these people, the lower paid people who | :12:57. | :13:00. | |
travel on the tube, who need it as an essential service, they care Of | :13:01. | :13:06. | |
course they care, I've said before that I apologise to | :13:07. | :13:09. | |
course they care, I've said before public for the dispute that took | :13:10. | :13:14. | |
place. 24 strikes in 13 years? It two to tango. If the boy never | :13:15. | :13:20. | |
imposed terms and conditions on us against our will... But you've got | :13:21. | :13:24. | |
great terms and conditions! But it's a constant battle, they are trying | :13:25. | :13:30. | |
to change them. Drivers are having their pay going up to ?50,000. You | :13:31. | :13:35. | |
said they are making it worse, it is going up. They are trying to make | :13:36. | :13:38. | |
things worse for workers. You said at the start of the interview that | :13:39. | :13:43. | |
the tube strike cost ?100 million in two days. It means that when members | :13:44. | :13:48. | |
go to work for two days it is worth ?100 million. That demonstrates what | :13:49. | :13:50. | |
they are worth. Only a fighting trade union can defend workers out | :13:51. | :13:56. | |
there. Your members should enjoy what you have got for them, because | :13:57. | :13:58. | |
it's not going to last, is what you have got for them, because | :13:59. | :14:03. | |
Technology will change the whole way your business operates. As Karl Marx | :14:04. | :14:08. | |
says, you said I was a mixture of Karl Marx, Only Fools And Horses and | :14:09. | :14:12. | |
the Sopranos. I thought that was quite funny... The Karl Marx part of | :14:13. | :14:16. | |
it, the only thing that is constant is change. We have been crying out | :14:17. | :14:24. | |
for new technology. But for who To put people on the dole, so they | :14:25. | :14:29. | |
can't do anything and do anything for society, or technology so | :14:30. | :14:32. | |
everybody benefits, lower fares better service and better terms and | :14:33. | :14:37. | |
conditions for the workers. But you have made Labour so expensive on the | :14:38. | :14:39. | |
underground that management now has a huge incentive to substitute | :14:40. | :14:44. | |
technology for Labour. And that s what it's going to do, it is closing | :14:45. | :14:48. | |
the ticket offices and very soon, starting in 2016, the driverless | :14:49. | :14:54. | |
trains coming. What I am saying is that your members should enjoy this | :14:55. | :15:02. | |
because it's not going to last. Driverless trains are not coming | :15:03. | :15:13. | |
in, it is not safe. We have them in Nuremberg, Shanghai, Sao Paulo, it | :15:14. | :15:18. | |
is not safe? These are new lines that have been built so that when it | :15:19. | :15:24. | |
breaks down, people can get out of the tunnel. Would you want to be | :15:25. | :15:28. | |
stuck on a summers day on the Northern line? A pregnant woman who | :15:29. | :15:35. | |
cannot get off the train? Absolute panic that takes place, the reality | :15:36. | :15:40. | |
is simple, it is a nonsense. It s not going to happen because it is a | :15:41. | :15:45. | |
Victorian network. On Docklands railway for example it is driverless | :15:46. | :15:54. | |
but when the train breaks down, it is above ground on a very small | :15:55. | :16:00. | |
section. All of these other cities managed to have it. You remind me | :16:01. | :16:06. | |
about Henry Ford in the 1930s when he said, you see that robot over | :16:07. | :16:21. | |
their, he cannot buy a car. All sorts of new jobs are being created | :16:22. | :16:26. | |
all the time in other areas. Come back to the ticket offices, not many | :16:27. | :16:32. | |
people use the ticket offices any more, what is wrong with getting the | :16:33. | :16:37. | |
stuff out of the ticket office on to the concourses, meeting and | :16:38. | :16:41. | |
greeting, helping disabled people and tourists and making it a better | :16:42. | :16:46. | |
service? They can do more on the concourse than they can in the | :16:47. | :16:52. | |
ticket office. Andrew, he took the decision to close down every single | :16:53. | :16:59. | |
ticket office. You cannot compare for example Chesham with the likes | :17:00. | :17:06. | |
of Heathrow. Are you telling me people are going to be on a long | :17:07. | :17:12. | |
transatlantic flight, arrived at Heathrow and cannot get a ticket. | :17:13. | :17:17. | |
The stuff will be redeployed on the concourse. The simple problem is | :17:18. | :17:23. | |
that it is not just about the booking office, it is about people | :17:24. | :17:30. | |
having a visual. If you are partially sighted, you cannot use | :17:31. | :17:34. | |
the machines. If British is not your first language, you cannot use the | :17:35. | :17:42. | |
offices. How many languages do your members speak? I don't know, I | :17:43. | :17:51. | |
struggle with English. The machines can speak many different languages. | :17:52. | :17:56. | |
They are dehumanising things. You phone the bank, all you hear is | :17:57. | :18:04. | |
press one for this, two for that. People want to hear it human being | :18:05. | :18:08. | |
and what makes the London Underground so precious is that | :18:09. | :18:15. | |
people want to see people. Having well-dressed, motivated people out | :18:16. | :18:20. | |
on the concourse, what part of that don't you like? They will be on the | :18:21. | :18:23. | |
concourse and they don't you like? They will be on the | :18:24. | :18:27. | |
machines. The fact is that London Underground did a risk assessment of | :18:28. | :18:30. | |
closing down their booking offices and it is clear that if you are | :18:31. | :18:35. | |
disabled, if you are partially sighted, London Underground becomes | :18:36. | :18:42. | |
more dangerous. You are posing the closing of ticket offices, opposing | :18:43. | :18:49. | |
driverless trains, when you opposed to the Oyster card when it came in? | :18:50. | :19:01. | |
No, Oyster cards, it is how you deal with it. It is not the only way | :19:02. | :19:08. | |
They should supplement the staff and the job. If more people used the | :19:09. | :19:13. | |
London Underground system, you want more staff to deal with them. Let's | :19:14. | :19:19. | |
look at your mandate to strike. Of your members who work on the Tube, | :19:20. | :19:31. | |
only 40% bothered to vote. Only 30% voted for the strike, so 70% | :19:32. | :19:37. | |
actually didn't vote to strike of your members, but the strike went | :19:38. | :19:42. | |
ahead. Isn't it right to have a higher threshold before you can | :19:43. | :19:48. | |
cause this disruption? It would be lovely if everyone voted but the | :19:49. | :19:51. | |
Tories took that away. We used to have ballots at the workplace. What | :19:52. | :19:58. | |
I'm trying to say to you is that we used to have a ballot box at the | :19:59. | :20:06. | |
workplace and the turnouts were higher. The Tories believe that if | :20:07. | :20:10. | |
they can have a secret ballot where ballot papers went to people's home | :20:11. | :20:16. | |
addresses, where they could be persuaded by the bosses, votes would | :20:17. | :20:21. | |
be different. Let's go back to the workplace ballot because you get a | :20:22. | :20:28. | |
bigger turnout. Will the RMT re-affiliate to the Labour Party? I | :20:29. | :20:33. | |
have no intention to. We got expelled from the Labour Party. But | :20:34. | :20:41. | |
you will give some money to the Labour councils? Those that support | :20:42. | :20:49. | |
our basic policies get money, we don't give money directly to MPs, we | :20:50. | :20:56. | |
give it to constituencies. Are you going to stand for re-election in | :20:57. | :21:05. | |
2016? I might do, I might not. You haven't decided yet? No, but more | :21:06. | :21:11. | |
than likely I will do. And will you stand again as an anti-EU candidate? | :21:12. | :21:18. | |
Yes, I am standing in London, and right across, completely different | :21:19. | :21:25. | |
to UKIP's policies. They are anti-European, they believe all of | :21:26. | :21:30. | |
the faults of Europe are down to the immigrants. We are anti-European | :21:31. | :21:36. | |
Union. If London Underground is as badly run as you think, why don t | :21:37. | :21:42. | |
you run for mayor? That is down the road, it has not come up yet. I m | :21:43. | :21:48. | |
not ruling anything out. I'm not ruling out getting your job on the | :21:49. | :21:52. | |
Sunday Politics. You have got ruling out getting your job on the | :21:53. | :21:58. | |
retire as well, you have got to put your feet up. I will get you to | :21:59. | :22:04. | |
renegotiate my package. Shall we go on strike first? If I could have | :22:05. | :22:10. | |
your wages, I would have two trips to Rio every year. Good luck. And if | :22:11. | :22:21. | |
you're in the London region they'll have more on the Tube strike later | :22:22. | :22:28. | |
in the programme. Let's get back to those comments from Jose Manuel | :22:29. | :22:33. | |
Barroso, and reaction to these comments from John Swinney. Scottish | :22:34. | :22:39. | |
Nationalists denied all along you would have to reapply, we have now | :22:40. | :22:46. | |
heard it without any caveats, you will and you might not get in. I | :22:47. | :22:52. | |
think Jose Manuel Barroso's comments were preposterous this morning. He | :22:53. | :23:00. | |
compared the situation to the one in Kosovo. Britain is the member, | :23:01. | :23:06. | |
Scotland is not the member. If you go independent, you will have to | :23:07. | :23:12. | |
reapply, he says. All of the arrangements we have in place are | :23:13. | :23:16. | |
compatible with the workings of the European Union because we have been | :23:17. | :23:20. | |
part of it for 40 years. The propositions we put forward work | :23:21. | :23:26. | |
about essentially negotiating the continuity of Scotland's membership | :23:27. | :23:30. | |
of the European Union and that position has now been explained and | :23:31. | :23:36. | |
debated and discussed and reinforced by comments made by experts. We are | :23:37. | :23:49. | |
talking about the president of the European commission and we have | :23:50. | :23:52. | |
spoken to him since he gave that interview on the BBC this morning, | :23:53. | :23:57. | |
it was an intervention that he made that he wanted to lay out that | :23:58. | :24:06. | |
Scotland should be in no doubt that if they vote for independence they | :24:07. | :24:14. | |
will have to apply for European membership and they may not get it | :24:15. | :24:18. | |
if it is vetoed by other members. What he didn't say is that no state | :24:19. | :24:23. | |
of the European Union have indicated they would veto Scottish | :24:24. | :24:29. | |
membership. The Spanish foreign minister has. They have said that if | :24:30. | :24:34. | |
there is an agreed process within the UK that Scotland becomes an | :24:35. | :24:38. | |
independent country, then Spain has got nothing to say about the issue. | :24:39. | :24:43. | |
That indicates to me clearly that the Spanish government will have no | :24:44. | :24:48. | |
stance to take on the Scottish membership of the European Union | :24:49. | :24:51. | |
because it is important that Scotland is already part of the | :24:52. | :24:56. | |
European Union, our laws are compatible with the European Union | :24:57. | :25:01. | |
and we play our part. The only threat to Scotland's participation | :25:02. | :25:06. | |
in the European Union is the potential in/out referendum that | :25:07. | :25:16. | |
David Cameron wants to have in 017. It has not been a great week for | :25:17. | :25:22. | |
you, has it? Everything you seem to want, the monetary union, that has | :25:23. | :25:28. | |
been blown out of the water by the Westminster parties, now Jose Manuel | :25:29. | :25:32. | |
Barroso has said you will have to reapply to the European Union, it | :25:33. | :25:39. | |
has not been a good week. You will follow the debate closely, and the | :25:40. | :25:45. | |
Sunday newspapers are full about the backlash taking place within | :25:46. | :25:49. | |
Scotland at the bullying remarks of the Chancellor and his cohorts. Is | :25:50. | :25:58. | |
Jose Manuel Barroso a bully is well now? He is making an indirect | :25:59. | :26:01. | |
comparison between Scotland and Kosovo. If you vote for independence | :26:02. | :26:08. | |
and you do have two apply again to join, if you do get in it solves | :26:09. | :26:15. | |
your currency problem because you will have to accept the euro. We | :26:16. | :26:21. | |
have set out an option on the currency arrangements which would be | :26:22. | :26:29. | |
to establish the currency union You would have to adopt the euro. That's | :26:30. | :26:36. | |
not rate because you have to be part of the exchange-rate mechanism for | :26:37. | :26:40. | |
two years before you can apply for membership and an independent | :26:41. | :26:43. | |
Scotland has no intention of signing up to the exchange rate mechanism or | :26:44. | :26:48. | |
the single currency. We are concentrating on setting out our | :26:49. | :26:52. | |
arguments for maintaining the pound sterling, which is in the interests | :26:53. | :26:59. | |
of Scotland and the UK. Thank you for joining us this morning. | :27:00. | :27:05. | |
This week's least surprising news was that Labour won the safe seat of | :27:06. | :27:08. | |
Wythenshawe and Sale East in a by-election, following the death of | :27:09. | :27:11. | |
the MP Paul Goggins. With the result so predictable, | :27:12. | :27:12. | |
the MP Paul Goggins. With the result whether this would be the sixth time | :27:13. | :27:16. | |
this parliament that UKIP would come second. And whether they'd chip away | :27:17. | :27:19. | |
at Labour's vote, not just the Tories and the Lib Dems. Adam stayed | :27:20. | :27:23. | |
up all night to find out what it all meant. Forget the hype. Forget the | :27:24. | :27:33. | |
theorising. And yes - everyone has a theory. UKIP are learning from us. | :27:34. | :27:45. | |
What have they picked up from you? To be silly. Thanks to this week's | :27:46. | :27:50. | |
by-election we've got some hard evidence in paper form that helps | :27:51. | :27:53. | |
answer the question: How are UKIP doing? Turns out the answer is well, | :27:54. | :28:00. | |
but not well enough to beat Labour. I'm therefore claim -- declare that | :28:01. | :28:10. | |
Mike Cane is elected. So UKIP have come second and increased their | :28:11. | :28:12. | |
share of the vote quite significantly. But their performance | :28:13. | :28:15. | |
isn't as good as their performances in some of the other by-elections | :28:16. | :28:18. | |
this parliament. Just don't suggest to them that their bandwagon has | :28:19. | :28:27. | |
ground to a halt. A week ago you'd told me you were going to win, what | :28:28. | :28:34. | |
happened? No, I didn't, I said I wanted to win. My mistake. How are | :28:35. | :28:42. | |
you feeling? It is a Labour stronghold, we always knew it was | :28:43. | :28:47. | |
going to be a fight. Labour were running scared of letting us present | :28:48. | :28:53. | |
our arguments. UKIP's campaign in Wythenshawe didn't point to the | :28:54. | :28:55. | |
right but to the left, with leaflets that branded Labour as a party of | :28:56. | :28:59. | |
millionaires who didn't care about the working class. It wasn't a | :29:00. | :29:02. | |
winning strategy but it did help them beat the Tories who focused on | :29:03. | :29:08. | |
dog mess and potholes instead. Professional UKIP-watcher Rob Ford | :29:09. | :29:10. | |
from Manchester Uni thinks they could be on the right track. He s | :29:11. | :29:17. | |
analysed the views of 5,000 UKIP voters for a new book, which could | :29:18. | :29:19. | |
confound the received wisdom about the party. The common media image of | :29:20. | :29:31. | |
the typical UKIP voter is a ruddy faced golf club and -- member from | :29:32. | :29:40. | |
the south-east of the UK and many UKIP activists do resemble that | :29:41. | :29:44. | |
stereotype to some extent, they do pick up a lot of activists from the | :29:45. | :29:47. | |
Conservative party, but pick up a lot of activists from the | :29:48. | :29:51. | |
are older, more working class, more likely to live in Northern, urban | :29:52. | :29:57. | |
areas, and they are much more anti-system than anti-EU. And | :29:58. | :30:01. | |
they're precisely the voters that the Tory MP David Mowat needs if | :30:02. | :30:04. | |
he's to hold on to his narrow majority in the constituency just | :30:05. | :30:17. | |
down the road. Do you have a UKIP strategy in your seat? Our UKIP | :30:18. | :30:20. | |
strategy is to point out that if they want a referendum on if they | :30:21. | :30:24. | |
want to be in the EU or not, there is one way to get it, for the | :30:25. | :30:27. | |
Conservatives to form their next government and for me to be their | :30:28. | :30:33. | |
MP. UKIP could accidentally destroy what they want? I'm not sure it will | :30:34. | :30:40. | |
be accidental. People need to realise that if Ed Miliband is | :30:41. | :30:41. | |
be accidental. People need to Prime Minister, there will be no | :30:42. | :30:46. | |
referendum on the EU and UKIP may have made their point but they would | :30:47. | :30:52. | |
not have got their referendum. Over at UKIP local HQ, it is tidying up | :30:53. | :31:02. | |
time. Not helping, Nigel? I had major surgery on the 19th of | :31:03. | :31:05. | |
November and I am still weak as a kitten. I can barely lift a pint | :31:06. | :31:09. | |
with my right hand, it is as serious as that. The answer is, Carreon | :31:10. | :31:14. | |
chaps, you're all doing a very good job. There will be carrying on to | :31:15. | :31:18. | |
the European elections in May, which will provide more evidence of if the | :31:19. | :31:22. | |
UKIP and wagon is powering on or if it is just parked. -- bandwagon | :31:23. | :31:28. | |
With me now is the Conservative MEP Vicky fraud and UKIP director of | :31:29. | :31:32. | |
medication is Patrick O'Flynn. He will also be a candidate in the | :31:33. | :31:36. | |
upcoming European elections. You came second in Manchester, but it | :31:37. | :31:40. | |
was not a close second. -- Vicky Ford. There is nothing that is a | :31:41. | :31:47. | |
game changer? I think it is very unusual for any insurgent party | :31:48. | :31:53. | |
like the liberals used to be, to actually win a safe seat of the | :31:54. | :31:58. | |
opposition. Those shocks, going back to Walkington etc, it tended to be | :31:59. | :32:06. | |
winning seats against an unpopular government. We did extraordinarily | :32:07. | :32:11. | |
well in Wythenshawe. Labour compressed the campaign down to the | :32:12. | :32:14. | |
shortest possible time and maxed out the postal vote. Whatever we think | :32:15. | :32:17. | |
about Labour, they do have an efficient machine, lots of union | :32:18. | :32:22. | |
activists signed a lot of people with a lot of know-how. It pushed | :32:23. | :32:28. | |
you into third place and showed the increasing irrelevance of the Tories | :32:29. | :32:33. | |
in the North? Tory minded voters in the North Sea more inclined to vote | :32:34. | :32:38. | |
for UKIP than you? I think by-elections are by-elections. The | :32:39. | :32:42. | |
same day, we took a seat from Labour in Birmingham. Well, that was a | :32:43. | :32:47. | |
by-election as well, so we should discount that as well. You should | :32:48. | :32:51. | |
learn from them, and we need to look forward to the elections in 201 . | :32:52. | :32:55. | |
That is in May this year, when we have a chance to really grab this | :32:56. | :33:02. | |
change in Europe, grab this change that we were talking about just now. | :33:03. | :33:07. | |
You don't worry, particularly in the north, if people want to vote | :33:08. | :33:09. | |
against Labour your supporters are drifting to UKIP? I think people | :33:10. | :33:15. | |
vote UKIP in a European election and they have done that for many years. | :33:16. | :33:19. | |
They vote that because they want change. The problem is, Patrick s | :33:20. | :33:23. | |
party have had MEPs since 1999 and they cannot deliver that change | :33:24. | :33:28. | |
They can't because they don't have seats in Westminster. It was on that | :33:29. | :33:34. | |
video, the only way we are going to get the change we want in Europe is | :33:35. | :33:38. | |
to have that referendum and have the renegotiation, and that means vote | :33:39. | :33:45. | |
Tory. What do you say to that? Let's get real, the Conservative Party has | :33:46. | :33:50. | |
not won a Parliamentary majority in 22 years. But the only way you will | :33:51. | :33:56. | |
get a referendum, if that is what motivates you, and with UKIP it is, | :33:57. | :34:00. | |
the only way it will be a referendum on Europe in this country as if | :34:01. | :34:03. | |
there is a majority Conservative government at the next election And | :34:04. | :34:06. | |
you could well stop that from happening? I don't accept that. I | :34:07. | :34:12. | |
believe, just as we forced David Cameron and into a referendum pledge | :34:13. | :34:15. | |
he explicitly ruled out making before through our success, and I | :34:16. | :34:19. | |
was there in PMQs, when his MPs asked him and he said it would not | :34:20. | :34:22. | |
be in the national interest because he didn't want to leave, our | :34:23. | :34:25. | |
electoral success forced that pledge. I believe by winning the | :34:26. | :34:30. | |
European action this May we can force Ed Miliband, again, against | :34:31. | :34:34. | |
his will, to match that pledge. Then, whatever formulation varies in | :34:35. | :34:37. | |
the next Parliament, we will get a referendum. Labour MPs have just had | :34:38. | :34:44. | |
the chance to say we want a referendum. They refused to do it. | :34:45. | :34:49. | |
The only way you are going to get a renegotiation, a change in our | :34:50. | :34:53. | |
relationship with Europe and an in or out referendum is to have a | :34:54. | :34:56. | |
Conservative Government. Please UKIP, stop pretending that you can | :34:57. | :34:59. | |
deliver, because you don't deliver and you don't... We have delivered, | :35:00. | :35:07. | |
we forced David Cameron to give a pledge for a referendum he didn t | :35:08. | :35:13. | |
want to make. We will know if you are right about Ed Miliband or not, | :35:14. | :35:16. | |
you will have to tell us going into the campaign. If you are wrong, what | :35:17. | :35:21. | |
do you do then? There are still loads of reasons for people to vote | :35:22. | :35:25. | |
UKIP. A referendum is one thing David Cameron, and I asked him | :35:26. | :35:31. | |
directly, thermally wants to stay in. He wants to be the Edward Heath | :35:32. | :35:37. | |
of the 21st century. The Tories are going to say, vote UKIP, get Ed | :35:38. | :35:40. | |
Miliband. What would you say to that? I would say we have probably | :35:41. | :35:45. | |
maxed out the Tory vote we are going to get because David Cameron has | :35:46. | :35:49. | |
been incredibly helpful in sending them in our direction. Our potential | :35:50. | :35:53. | |
for growth now, would we are concentrating on, his those | :35:54. | :35:59. | |
disenchanted former Labour voters and more and more of them are coming | :36:00. | :36:02. | |
towards us on things like immigration and law and order. We | :36:03. | :36:08. | |
want to renegotiate our relationship with Europe. We need to have people | :36:09. | :36:12. | |
who are going to turn up to negotiate with people like Barroso. | :36:13. | :36:15. | |
That meant a Prime Minister that is not Ed Miliband but David Cameron. | :36:16. | :36:23. | |
UKIP MEPs do not turn up to defenders. If President Hollande is | :36:24. | :36:31. | |
as good as his word and says there will be no substantial | :36:32. | :36:33. | |
renegotiation, certainly no treaty change this side of 2017 when he is | :36:34. | :36:38. | |
up for the election, what do you do then? He is a French Socialist Prime | :36:39. | :36:43. | |
Minister, I don't expect him to agree. But you can't bring anything | :36:44. | :36:49. | |
of substance back with these negotiations. Then people will vote | :36:50. | :36:56. | |
to leave. The Prime Minister has been very clear that British public | :36:57. | :37:03. | |
opinion is on a knife edge and unless we get what we want from a | :37:04. | :37:06. | |
renegotiation, we will leave. You would vote to leave? Let's see what | :37:07. | :37:12. | |
we get with the deal on the table in 2017. If the status quo was what we | :37:13. | :37:16. | |
have today, I would vote to leave. But I want to renegotiate. We will | :37:17. | :37:23. | |
have to move on. For those viewers lucky enough to live in the East of | :37:24. | :37:27. | |
England, they will be seeing more of Patrick in a moment. You are | :37:28. | :37:31. | |
watching Sunday Politics. Coming up in just over 20 minutes, I will be | :37:32. | :37:35. | |
talking about, what else, the weather, with | :37:36. | :37:43. | |
Hello and welcome to Sunday Politics in the East. Later in the | :37:44. | :37:50. | |
programme, the struggle to keep SureStart centres open. | :37:51. | :37:58. | |
We always feel it. We are in small villages and I feel like we need it, | :37:59. | :38:01. | |
really. And calls to reduce the cost of tax | :38:02. | :38:09. | |
on bingo clubs. We are not asking for a hand`out or | :38:10. | :38:14. | |
a subsidy. We are asking for a level tax. | :38:15. | :38:21. | |
But first let's introduce our guests, Stewart Jackson, the | :38:22. | :38:23. | |
Conservative MP for Peterborough, and Patrick O'Flynn, who is UKIP's | :38:24. | :38:26. | |
lead candidate for the eastern region in the forthcoming European | :38:27. | :38:29. | |
elections this May. And we will begin this week with some good news | :38:30. | :38:38. | |
for flood victims. The government has announced that | :38:39. | :38:41. | |
people who suffered flooding on the East Coast will be entitled to | :38:42. | :38:43. | |
compensation because financial help will now be backdated to include the | :38:44. | :38:47. | |
whole winter. That means that people who were flooded here during the | :38:48. | :38:50. | |
tidal surge in December should qualify. | :38:51. | :38:55. | |
There was a worry that with all the subsequent flooding elsewhere we | :38:56. | :39:01. | |
might have missed out. Yes, I was in King's Lynn on the day | :39:02. | :39:08. | |
of the first storm in December and doing a UKIP meeting in the area and | :39:09. | :39:14. | |
I remember driving back in the evening and the wind whistling. I | :39:15. | :39:19. | |
think it was the day that they announced that Nelson Mandela had | :39:20. | :39:23. | |
died, said the media coverage for the storm was small. I am pleased | :39:24. | :39:30. | |
that the East have been acknowledged, but people will feel | :39:31. | :39:34. | |
that the flooding in the Thames Valley has elevated that. | :39:35. | :39:39. | |
What about that? People are saying that it is the flooding in the south | :39:40. | :39:44. | |
that has prompted the surgeon money? | :39:45. | :39:49. | |
Clearly, we have had exceptional circumstances and appalling weather, | :39:50. | :39:53. | |
unlike anything that we have seen since 2007. I think the government | :39:54. | :40:01. | |
have acted as quickly as possible. The Prime Minister has taken direct | :40:02. | :40:04. | |
action and seized the moment with chairing Cobra, looking at the | :40:05. | :40:09. | |
scheme that gives the funding but the local government. | :40:10. | :40:13. | |
So it has nothing to do with the marginals? No, it is not a party | :40:14. | :40:20. | |
political issue. MPs from across the divide have been very good at | :40:21. | :40:24. | |
representing the concerns of their constituents, not least in | :40:25. | :40:27. | |
Somerset. I think the government has acted in terms of asking the | :40:28. | :40:32. | |
Treasury to look again at funding and working with local authorities | :40:33. | :40:36. | |
to review the scheme said that more money can go to them. | :40:37. | :40:45. | |
To the money that we will all pay on our council tax. Budgets are being | :40:46. | :40:51. | |
set all across the region at the moment, before bills go out in | :40:52. | :40:54. | |
spring. This is the picture in our 51 district authorities. Next year, | :40:55. | :40:57. | |
the number of council jobs expected to go across the region is at least | :40:58. | :41:02. | |
786. There are 25 councils who are | :41:03. | :41:05. | |
sticking with the government's advice and freezing council tax, but | :41:06. | :41:08. | |
16 district authorities are going to increase theirs, three, all in | :41:09. | :41:11. | |
Essex, are managing a cut and a handful have yet to make up their | :41:12. | :41:15. | |
mind. Altogether the districts plan to make savings of ?439 million, put | :41:16. | :41:18. | |
that together with the ?402 million spending reduction by our shire and | :41:19. | :41:21. | |
unitary councils and the total save this year is ?841 million. That | :41:22. | :41:28. | |
means a reduction in children's services. Started by Labour in 1998, | :41:29. | :41:34. | |
SureStart centres were funded by the government and aimed to support | :41:35. | :41:37. | |
families, as well as improve early education and childcare. Local | :41:38. | :41:40. | |
authorities took them over in 2005 and now cuts to their funding mean | :41:41. | :41:43. | |
the service is being targeted only at the most disadvantaged families. | :41:44. | :41:46. | |
Tom Barton has this report from Essex. | :41:47. | :41:50. | |
Hello, hello, it is good to see you. | :41:51. | :41:55. | |
Every week, new mothers and fathers bring their babies to this parenting | :41:56. | :42:02. | |
group in Braintree. It is one of the number of classes that the centre | :42:03. | :42:06. | |
runs to help new parents, along with a drop`in service everyday. | :42:07. | :42:12. | |
It is free and is open to everyone, so that is great. Everything else is | :42:13. | :42:17. | |
quite expensive to do. This is my first child, so I did not have much | :42:18. | :42:22. | |
experience. Coming here, it is good to know that you can ask people any | :42:23. | :42:27. | |
questions that you have. It is brilliant, they do loads of | :42:28. | :42:33. | |
groups. We come to two a week. We have found that it has helped with | :42:34. | :42:37. | |
our little girl's developments. But across Essex, children's centres | :42:38. | :42:43. | |
facing cuts. These mothers and fathers are the lucky ones. This | :42:44. | :42:48. | |
centre is not being affected by the cuts. But, across Essex, of the 82 | :42:49. | :42:52. | |
centres that will be open after the cuts, more than half of them will | :42:53. | :42:56. | |
face a reduction in their opening hours. | :42:57. | :43:01. | |
These mothers are among those affected by the cuts. The | :43:02. | :43:04. | |
children's centres that they attend having their hours slashed. One will | :43:05. | :43:09. | |
go from being open eight hours a day Monday to Friday to being open for | :43:10. | :43:15. | |
just five hours each week. We do a lot of courses, baby Matt | :43:16. | :43:23. | |
Sarge. `` baby massaging. We would not have that opportunity if it was | :43:24. | :43:30. | |
not that the children's centre. This group has been campaigning | :43:31. | :43:34. | |
against the cuts, saying that their area has been disproportionately | :43:35. | :43:36. | |
affected. Now that they have made the cuts, I | :43:37. | :43:40. | |
see that it will only get worse. People that have had their centre | :43:41. | :43:47. | |
cut from 40 hours to five hours. When they make the next cut, this is | :43:48. | :43:52. | |
where the centre will shut. As always, we are the ones that feel | :43:53. | :43:56. | |
it, because we are in small villages. I feel that we are the | :43:57. | :44:02. | |
kind of people who need it, really. I think there is a long`term impact | :44:03. | :44:06. | |
in terms of the effect that it has on families, but also the wider | :44:07. | :44:11. | |
community. SureStart children's centres run out of community | :44:12. | :44:18. | |
facilities. If you take the children's centre away, it | :44:19. | :44:19. | |
undermines the viability of the centres. | :44:20. | :44:24. | |
The education minister says that decisions about children's centres | :44:25. | :44:26. | |
should be local. Ultimately, it is the responsibility | :44:27. | :44:31. | |
of the local council to make sure that those children get a good start | :44:32. | :44:35. | |
in life and stop we have been clear in our government guidance that | :44:36. | :44:38. | |
there should be a strong network of SureStart centres. | :44:39. | :44:47. | |
But, with councils facing the effects of cuts to central | :44:48. | :44:51. | |
government grants, increasing demand and a limit on council tax rises, | :44:52. | :44:56. | |
services that were once universal will inevitably end up serving only | :44:57. | :45:03. | |
those in the greatest need. Hickory decree dock. That was | :45:04. | :45:10. | |
beautiful. Joining me now, the leader of the | :45:11. | :45:15. | |
County Council, David Finch. Why are you making these cuts? | :45:16. | :45:20. | |
What we are doing is re`profiling the service so that we are placing | :45:21. | :45:25. | |
where there is the greatest need the resources in the area and we have | :45:26. | :45:28. | |
been very careful about the profiling of the centres so that we | :45:29. | :45:33. | |
are actually reaching those people who have the greatest need. In fact, | :45:34. | :45:37. | |
if you look at the cost reduction that we have achieved, it isn't | :45:38. | :45:42. | |
around people, it is about building rates, electricity bills. It is all | :45:43. | :45:46. | |
those fixed costs that are associated with the centres. We have | :45:47. | :45:52. | |
been able to re`profile because we have adapted the workforce in those | :45:53. | :45:55. | |
centres appropriately to the needs of the communities and re`profiled | :45:56. | :46:00. | |
the cost as well. You heard the mothers in the films | :46:01. | :46:06. | |
saying 40 hours down to five hours. Effectively, the places close down. | :46:07. | :46:12. | |
No, I think it is reasonable. We would have profile Turbat about how | :46:13. | :46:18. | |
long the centre was opened a week and how many hours it was used a | :46:19. | :46:25. | |
week. We have been very careful about profiling all of these centres | :46:26. | :46:28. | |
and outreach places so that we are maximising their use and maximising | :46:29. | :46:33. | |
the opportunity. The mother in the film does not feel | :46:34. | :46:37. | |
that she has been profiled. She fills that she is missing out on | :46:38. | :46:40. | |
something that she and her child enjoy. | :46:41. | :46:48. | |
Your pro `` programme has profiled this in terms of the outreach | :46:49. | :46:53. | |
centres as cuts. If you give that message out, people pick that | :46:54. | :46:55. | |
message up and think it will be worse in the future. What we have | :46:56. | :47:00. | |
been doing as Essex County Council over the last four years is | :47:01. | :47:07. | |
re`profiling our surfaces `` services, looking at how we can be | :47:08. | :47:11. | |
adaptable and profiled the finances and give value to money for the | :47:12. | :47:14. | |
taxpayer. You are going to raise tax, it at | :47:15. | :47:22. | |
the 11th hour you decided not to. You could have saved these | :47:23. | :47:26. | |
services, continue? I think that we have saved the | :47:27. | :47:30. | |
services. The work that has been done has been appropriate. What we | :47:31. | :47:34. | |
have done interims of accepting the grants is on the basis of what we | :47:35. | :47:38. | |
have seen as an increase in the tax base from the collections at the | :47:39. | :47:42. | |
District Council level. That has come through to us. We have acted | :47:43. | :47:50. | |
sponsored Bailey and profiled `` we have acted responsibly and profiled | :47:51. | :47:52. | |
the money. Stewart Jackson, Peter Brook is also | :47:53. | :48:00. | |
facing these cuts. Mothers `` Peterborough are also facing cuts. | :48:01. | :48:06. | |
Mothers in your areas will be missing out? | :48:07. | :48:11. | |
Most of that is not my area of the place, but there will be some | :48:12. | :48:16. | |
changes. The changes to try and focus the greatest number of | :48:17. | :48:19. | |
resources on the greatest need and I think that is the most important | :48:20. | :48:22. | |
thing to do. In the case Peter borough, we will have children's | :48:23. | :48:31. | |
services hopes, areas, where you have things like postnatal | :48:32. | :48:34. | |
depression, the most pressing issues will have a focus and stop it will | :48:35. | :48:39. | |
not be focused just on the buildings. | :48:40. | :48:41. | |
SureStart was supposed to be about support and guidance for parents. | :48:42. | :48:45. | |
UKIP's idea of more 'Nursery Voucher' provision isn't the same at | :48:46. | :48:48. | |
all ` don't you believe in supporting families? Is that not | :48:49. | :48:59. | |
about time spent away from the home? | :49:00. | :49:08. | |
I think David and Stewart are wrong to be addressing this up in jargon. | :49:09. | :49:13. | |
We should be honest and say that the services are being cut, but they are | :49:14. | :49:17. | |
being cut because the last Labour government is left this country in a | :49:18. | :49:24. | |
huge... What would you do? I think the key question is, are the cuts | :49:25. | :49:28. | |
being made in the right place? When you have the Foreign Office paying | :49:29. | :49:33. | |
diplomats to send their children to private schools at ?25,000 a year | :49:34. | :49:37. | |
and you have the Ministry of Defence with highly paid people staying at | :49:38. | :49:46. | |
4`star hotels, you would expect that Whitehall has not tried very hard. | :49:47. | :49:50. | |
You will see cuts at the front line for not very much money spent are | :49:51. | :49:57. | |
affecting human it. I would leave the Labour Party. And it has left | :49:58. | :50:04. | |
the country in a mess. But how will your nursery vouchers | :50:05. | :50:11. | |
help people? I would say that SureStart is not the worst idea that | :50:12. | :50:15. | |
the Labour Party has stopped I think it does need focusing on children | :50:16. | :50:24. | |
from more deprived backgrounds. When they were throwing money at | :50:25. | :50:29. | |
everything, it seemed that it was mainly affluent parents who were | :50:30. | :50:33. | |
having the services. I would argue that we should do something more to | :50:34. | :50:40. | |
help parents to do their best. David Finch? I wanted to say that | :50:41. | :50:47. | |
the track record of Essex is very clear over the last four years up we | :50:48. | :50:52. | |
have saved ?364 million, we have re`profiled our service. Sorry if we | :50:53. | :50:58. | |
are using jargon, but we are delivering results in Essex because | :50:59. | :51:02. | |
we are a Conservative administration who knows what they are doing. | :51:03. | :51:09. | |
But to be honest about it. What about the council tax, why not | :51:10. | :51:14. | |
have a referendum and ask the people of Essex what they want to do? | :51:15. | :51:18. | |
When we had the returns from the councils on the 3rd of February, the | :51:19. | :51:24. | |
amount that we thought we would get was ?4 million and that was based on | :51:25. | :51:28. | |
the forecast from the districts. We ended up with ?10.8 million. I | :51:29. | :51:33. | |
decided that we would take the freeze grants was because I could | :51:34. | :51:37. | |
afford to do all of the things that we plan to do with the additional | :51:38. | :51:42. | |
tax money and still do things like put money into flood relief, I could | :51:43. | :51:45. | |
put more money into education, more money into highways, money into | :51:46. | :51:51. | |
other services. Why would I not do that if I could keep council tax at | :51:52. | :51:55. | |
the freeze level for the residents of Essex? | :51:56. | :52:06. | |
Thank you. We're going to talk about bingo. | :52:07. | :52:09. | |
It's a pastime that's brought communities together for | :52:10. | :52:11. | |
generations. But in recent years, there's been a big drop in the | :52:12. | :52:14. | |
numbers taking part. Is it simply going out of fashion? Or could it | :52:15. | :52:18. | |
have something to do with the fact that while most gambling activities | :52:19. | :52:22. | |
are taxed at 15%, bingo is taxed at 20%? The industry is now lobbying | :52:23. | :52:25. | |
for a change in the law and it's campaign in Parliament is being led | :52:26. | :52:29. | |
by one of our MPs. Eyes down for Andrew Sinclair. | :52:30. | :52:36. | |
Six and five, 65. It is a wet Wednesday in Harlow, and | :52:37. | :52:40. | |
80 people are spending the evening in the loco `` local bingo hall. | :52:41. | :52:51. | |
For ?10, they can take play of 14 games, to potentially win ?50. On | :52:52. | :52:58. | |
other nights, the prize could be ?500. But everyone here says it is | :52:59. | :53:02. | |
not about the money. It is a night out not in front of | :53:03. | :53:06. | |
the television and the chance to have a win if we are lucky. You talk | :53:07. | :53:12. | |
to people, have a joke. The winning is not important. It is an evening | :53:13. | :53:18. | |
out, a social evening. We can have a chat top we enjoy it. | :53:19. | :53:27. | |
Is that two fat ladies? Even party leaders have had a go, | :53:28. | :53:33. | |
but David Cameron struggled when he had to go in 2009. According to the | :53:34. | :53:39. | |
industry, bingo is in crisis. In 2007, there were 542 clubs, now | :53:40. | :53:48. | |
there are just 200. `` 400. Now just 41 million visits a year. The | :53:49. | :53:53. | |
industry says that the smoking ban has played a part, also the high | :53:54. | :53:57. | |
rate of tax. It makes bingo companies reluctant | :53:58. | :54:02. | |
to invest. The bingo industry would like to build more modern | :54:03. | :54:04. | |
state`of`the`art premises so that we can attract more numbers. | :54:05. | :54:11. | |
Could a reason for this fall in numbers be because people do not | :54:12. | :54:14. | |
want to play bingo anymore, there are other more attractive games? | :54:15. | :54:20. | |
See, there is more competition in the leisure retail market and | :54:21. | :54:24. | |
online, so we have to up our game as well. We're not asking for a | :54:25. | :54:28. | |
hand`out or a subsidy, or we are asking for A`level tax. | :54:29. | :54:36. | |
Bingo profits are taxed at 20%, compared to 15% for other forms of | :54:37. | :54:40. | |
booking. Just 12% for lottery tickets will stop it all goes back | :54:41. | :54:44. | |
to the budget of 2009 when Alistair Darling axed the 80 on bingo halls | :54:45. | :54:51. | |
and increased gross office tax. He said that it would save the industry | :54:52. | :54:59. | |
money, but it has not happened. The industry's tax has won the backing | :55:00. | :55:03. | |
of MPs in Westminster. They say it would be fair and not expensive. | :55:04. | :55:10. | |
Where would the people get the ?20 million? They are taxing online | :55:11. | :55:13. | |
gaming which should raise ?300 million. They should use that to cut | :55:14. | :55:19. | |
bingo tax. Thousands of people enjoy this past time and it is incredibly | :55:20. | :55:22. | |
important. If they have the money and can invest in the clubs and can | :55:23. | :55:26. | |
employ more people, there will be able to get even more people to come | :55:27. | :55:30. | |
to the clubs, stop the closures and bingo will thrive and stop. | :55:31. | :55:38. | |
The Treasury is making sympathetic noises. I understand that ministers | :55:39. | :55:43. | |
believe that the Wingo industry has been unfairly treated. But in these | :55:44. | :55:48. | |
times, can the Chancellor find money for a in go tax cut. `` bingo. | :55:49. | :55:58. | |
They hope to get half a million signatures on a petition that will | :55:59. | :56:01. | |
be handed into Downing Street later this month. It is hoped that the | :56:02. | :56:06. | |
Chancellor will announce a change of heart. | :56:07. | :56:15. | |
Do you care about bingo? Yes, I do. I think that the | :56:16. | :56:21. | |
discrepancy in tax between bookmakers and bingo is untenable | :56:22. | :56:24. | |
and we need to look again at making it fairer. | :56:25. | :56:27. | |
Do you think it will make it to the budget? Yes, I do, because Robert | :56:28. | :56:35. | |
Hoffman has a track record of pushing the issues forward to the | :56:36. | :56:40. | |
Treasury, which is not always taken on`board straightaway, but he is one | :56:41. | :56:46. | |
out in the end by people power and strong campaigning. I think he will | :56:47. | :56:52. | |
win the day. Robert Halfon is good at tapping | :56:53. | :56:58. | |
into issues important to everyday people and not going back to a | :56:59. | :57:01. | |
bygone era, something that people accuse your party of? | :57:02. | :57:08. | |
I don't know about a bygone era, but Robert Halfon does have a talent at | :57:09. | :57:18. | |
appealing to people. Can I just say something in favour of bingo is that | :57:19. | :57:25. | |
it is a fixed state communitywide of having a flutter. You do not hear | :57:26. | :57:29. | |
about bingo addicts and stop due think it is more about community? | :57:30. | :57:36. | |
I have 82 of these gaming machines in my constituency, 21 bookmakers. | :57:37. | :57:44. | |
They have used loopholes in planning legislation to pretend that they are | :57:45. | :57:47. | |
building societies and banks. It is addictive, in terms of social | :57:48. | :57:53. | |
cohesion it is a disaster. Why are we supporting that and not bingo | :57:54. | :57:58. | |
halls? We are singing from the same hymn | :57:59. | :58:03. | |
sheet, I agree. When is the right time to hang up | :58:04. | :58:09. | |
your boots. It's a question that's been vexing one of our MPs this | :58:10. | :58:13. | |
week, here's Deborah McGurran with the 60 second round`up. | :58:14. | :58:23. | |
Another of our long`time MPs, Alan Hazlehurst, has faced questions | :58:24. | :58:26. | |
about his future after concerns that he could be too old to do the job | :58:27. | :58:32. | |
will stop. Not so, claims another MP. | :58:33. | :58:37. | |
The culture of youth is not what it is all about. | :58:38. | :58:42. | |
The new boss of the East of England Ambulance Service came in for praise | :58:43. | :58:46. | |
after meeting the health minister. He has stopped the old strategy that | :58:47. | :58:51. | |
he said would not work and has set up new priorities. | :58:52. | :58:57. | |
A rail maintenance firm has teamed up with a local college to employ | :58:58. | :59:03. | |
local young people, and have given ten jobs. | :59:04. | :59:08. | |
Whilst energy companies were pushed to reduce bills for those who do not | :59:09. | :59:14. | |
pay by direct debit in his own style. We will hear from the man in | :59:15. | :59:23. | |
the conker style suit. Stewart Jackson, could you do your | :59:24. | :59:29. | |
job at 82 years old? Yes, absolutely. The cult of youth | :59:30. | :59:37. | |
is overrated. There is a quiet wisdom, experience from older | :59:38. | :59:40. | |
people. I think we are wrong to disregard that. My leader Nigel | :59:41. | :59:48. | |
Farage says that it is a bunch of college children who are leading the | :59:49. | :59:54. | |
country in a wrong direction. This MP is a great person for | :59:55. | :00:01. | |
Westminster. If he can go one to convince his electors that he is up | :00:02. | :00:06. | |
to the job, then why not? It is wrong that many people stop | :00:07. | :00:13. | |
working at the age of 65 and MPs carry on? | :00:14. | :00:18. | |
That is not true, people cannot be forced to quit their jobs at 65. | :00:19. | :00:24. | |
Some people have a good relationship with their electorate, others do | :00:25. | :00:28. | |
not. That is all for now. You can have a | :00:29. | :00:33. | |
look at our website for political updates. We will not be here next | :00:34. | :00:34. | |
week, but we will be back in a updates. We will not be here next | :00:35. | :00:41. | |
direction? No, in real terms now the rent is falling in London. Andrew, | :00:42. | :00:48. | |
back to you. Welcome back. Let's start by talking | :00:49. | :00:52. | |
about the weather. What could be more British? It has been | :00:53. | :00:55. | |
practically the only topic of conversation for the past few | :00:56. | :00:58. | |
weeks. This morning, Ed Miliband has made the direct link, declaims, | :00:59. | :01:03. | |
between this exceptionally wet and windy weather and climate change. | :01:04. | :01:10. | |
That's an interesting development, taking place. Ed Miliband is the | :01:11. | :01:14. | |
author of the 2008 Climate Change Act, so he has to stick to that line | :01:15. | :01:23. | |
or his life 's work goes up in smoke. When he passed it, there was | :01:24. | :01:29. | |
Westminster consensus. Now the Tories are beginning to appeal off. | :01:30. | :01:33. | |
UKIP has definitely peeled off. Labour and Lib Dems are sticking to | :01:34. | :01:39. | |
their guns, there is now a debate? It has moved from consensus to very | :01:40. | :01:42. | |
fragile consensus. It's an interesting tactic for Ed Miliband | :01:43. | :01:45. | |
to take. He could either approach the floods talking about government | :01:46. | :01:49. | |
failures and handling, instead he has gone for the intellectual | :01:50. | :01:53. | |
argument, try and turn this into a debate about ideology and climate | :01:54. | :01:57. | |
change. I think he will find that quite difficult. Partly, I don't | :01:58. | :02:01. | |
think the public I get listening to an argument like that. Partly | :02:02. | :02:06. | |
because only one in three of the public totally agree with him. The | :02:07. | :02:10. | |
polls for The Times think that about one in three think that man-made I'm | :02:11. | :02:14. | |
a change is responsible for these floods, the rest do not. I'm not | :02:15. | :02:16. | |
sure that the interventions floods, the rest do not. I'm not | :02:17. | :02:22. | |
particularly well picked up. It puts David Cameron in a difficult | :02:23. | :02:25. | |
position. He was hugging those huskies, it was going to be the | :02:26. | :02:28. | |
greenest Government ever, and now he has an Environment secretary that | :02:29. | :02:34. | |
doesn't really believe in climate change. Well, we don't know where he | :02:35. | :02:39. | |
stands. That is not where he was in 2010. It has always been sold to us | :02:40. | :02:43. | |
that he is statesman-like and pragmatic, but that drifts into he | :02:44. | :02:47. | |
doesn't really believe anything This is a worldwide phenomenon now. | :02:48. | :02:53. | |
You've got the Canadian government, they are pretty sceptical these | :02:54. | :02:56. | |
days. The new Australian government is pretty sceptical. The Obama | :02:57. | :03:00. | |
administration has been attacked by the green movement across the United | :03:01. | :03:05. | |
States, he is probably about to approve the keystone pipeline that | :03:06. | :03:14. | |
will take over the Texas refineries. What was a huge consensus across the | :03:15. | :03:19. | |
globe is a guinea to break down Probably started to break down about | :03:20. | :03:22. | |
the time of the financial crisis, the age of austerity, when suddenly | :03:23. | :03:26. | |
people had more to worry about than green issues. Even at home it is a | :03:27. | :03:30. | |
slightly risky tactic for Ed Miliband. The idea there is a | :03:31. | :03:33. | |
scientific consensus on this, there isn't. You look at Professor Collins | :03:34. | :03:38. | |
this morning, climate systems expert, saying, actually, the jet | :03:39. | :03:43. | |
stream is not operating further south because of climate change Or | :03:44. | :03:46. | |
if it is, it is beyond our knowledge. He flies in the face of | :03:47. | :03:50. | |
what Ed Miliband as saying. He's saying the wet weather is caused by | :03:51. | :03:57. | |
global warming, the head of science at Exeter University says the IPCC | :03:58. | :04:00. | |
originally looked at whether climate change could affect what happens to | :04:01. | :04:05. | |
the jet stream and, because it had no evidence it had any effect, it | :04:06. | :04:08. | |
decided not to include it at all in the IPCC report. The problem we have | :04:09. | :04:14. | |
got is that any individual phenomenon is difficult to attribute | :04:15. | :04:19. | |
to climate change. But the Labour Leader just have? And The Met Office | :04:20. | :04:22. | |
have done the same thing. It's a fragile in, but overall we can say | :04:23. | :04:26. | |
we are getting more extreme weather than ever. The most extreme weather, | :04:27. | :04:30. | |
hurricanes and tropical storm is, they have been in decline. Equally, | :04:31. | :04:36. | |
we have had ten of the hottest summers in the last ten years since | :04:37. | :04:42. | |
1998. Overall, there is a case that can be made that we are getting | :04:43. | :04:46. | |
more. Each individual thing is difficult to say. Until recently, | :04:47. | :04:50. | |
almost everyone agreed with that case. Now the parties are reflecting | :04:51. | :04:56. | |
differences. I wanted to move on, what did you make of two interesting | :04:57. | :04:58. | |
things that happened with the interview with UKIP and the Tories, | :04:59. | :05:06. | |
one Cory saying I am voting to come out, and the UKIP chap saying we are | :05:07. | :05:11. | |
maxed out on Tory defectors, we can't get any more? I think that was | :05:12. | :05:15. | |
a dangerous admission from Patrick O'Flynn from UKIP, essentially | :05:16. | :05:20. | |
saying that their vote has peaked. Looking at the by-elections, I'm not | :05:21. | :05:23. | |
sure that was a particularly wise reflection on that. They got 18 , | :05:24. | :05:27. | |
23% last year. The case he is making is that there are more votes to be | :05:28. | :05:33. | |
gained by attracting former Labour voters than former Tories. I'm not | :05:34. | :05:37. | |
sure that red UKIP, the bit of UKIP that tries to make benefit | :05:38. | :05:41. | |
protection and some other kind of social issues at the heart really | :05:42. | :05:46. | |
sits comfortably with their insurgent, anti-state message. I | :05:47. | :05:48. | |
don't think it will do particularly well. This is why they are pushing | :05:49. | :05:54. | |
the message, it is their response to the idea and suggestion of a Tory | :05:55. | :05:57. | |
rallying cry that they vote for Nigel Farage, and it is really a | :05:58. | :06:04. | |
vote for Ed Miliband. Patrick is a very good journalist, a very good | :06:05. | :06:09. | |
commentator. He answered almost as a commentator rather than head of | :06:10. | :06:11. | |
communications for a political party. The Government are still | :06:12. | :06:18. | |
trying to rid itself of troublesome priests, an attack on welfare | :06:19. | :06:23. | |
reforms from the Catholic Archbishop of Westminster. Let's have a look | :06:24. | :06:30. | |
and see what he said. The basic safety net that was there to | :06:31. | :06:34. | |
guarantee that people would not be left in hunger or in destitution has | :06:35. | :06:38. | |
actually been torn apart. It no longer exists. And it is a real | :06:39. | :06:46. | |
real, dramatic crisis. The second is that, in this context, the | :06:47. | :06:52. | |
administration of social assistance, I am told, has become more and more | :06:53. | :06:56. | |
punitive. If applicants do not get it right, they have to wait and they | :06:57. | :07:00. | |
have to wait for ten days, two weeks, with nothing. Has the basic | :07:01. | :07:07. | |
safety net disappeared? I don't see how it is possible to argue that. It | :07:08. | :07:10. | |
is certainly the case that there have been reductions in various | :07:11. | :07:13. | |
benefits, some benefits have been scrapped and there is a welfare | :07:14. | :07:17. | |
reform programme. But this country is still spending ?94 billion a year | :07:18. | :07:22. | |
on working age benefits. Excluding pensions? The idea that this equates | :07:23. | :07:30. | |
to some sort of wiping out of the safety net is... He has | :07:31. | :07:34. | |
to some sort of wiping out of the full frontal assault on the Tory | :07:35. | :07:38. | |
reforms, not the kind of attack that Labour would be prepared to make? | :07:39. | :07:43. | |
No, they know that it doesn't play very well in the country. He's not | :07:44. | :07:50. | |
up for election. Whether or not you agree about the safety net, I think | :07:51. | :07:53. | |
the welfare reforms have been poorly managed and I don't think that is a | :07:54. | :07:58. | |
full dispute. Universal credit, it is in some very long grass. It had | :07:59. | :08:02. | |
some stupid ideas, like the idea that it would be paid monthly, | :08:03. | :08:04. | |
instead of weekly, meaning that people are more likely to run out of | :08:05. | :08:09. | |
money by the end of the month. It's interesting, in the past, when | :08:10. | :08:12. | |
members of the cloth have attacked the government for welfare reforms, | :08:13. | :08:16. | |
the Government have responded by trying to paint them as lefties | :08:17. | :08:21. | |
ideological driven. I think that is hard in this case, an assault made | :08:22. | :08:25. | |
ideological driven. I think that is somebody who feels they come from a | :08:26. | :08:29. | |
centre-right position. I think there will be a bit of awkwardness about | :08:30. | :08:33. | |
this intervention. It is not the kind of thing they wanted to see. Is | :08:34. | :08:37. | |
it politically damaging for the Government? It is if it makes them | :08:38. | :08:42. | |
look mean-spirited. But that is the problem with welfare reforms. You | :08:43. | :08:46. | |
can say all sorts of things about Iain Duncan Smith's competence. But | :08:47. | :08:51. | |
the whole thing springs from a moral mission, as he sees it, to liberate | :08:52. | :08:56. | |
the poor and extend opportunity One of the worst moments for the Tories | :08:57. | :08:59. | |
was blaming the low level of voting in Wythenshawe and sale in the fact | :09:00. | :09:03. | |
that the constituency had, in the words of one senior Tory, the | :09:04. | :09:07. | |
largest council estate in Europe inside its constituency boundary. | :09:08. | :09:12. | |
The point being what? Because you live in a council estate you don't | :09:13. | :09:17. | |
vote? That they don't see people living in council estate as one of | :09:18. | :09:20. | |
them, not an impulse that Margaret Thatcher would have had. I think | :09:21. | :09:24. | |
it's dangerous if they are painting is people as opponents rather than | :09:25. | :09:29. | |
trying to win them over. When they do vote, they determine elections! | :09:30. | :09:32. | |
The idea that there is no such thing as a working-class Tory is toxic. I | :09:33. | :09:39. | |
want to show you a picture. There we go. It is behind me, on the 5th of | :09:40. | :09:46. | |
February, it is all men. And then, on the next, look at that, the 2th, | :09:47. | :09:54. | |
there are a few women. Not exactly many, but some. It is an | :09:55. | :09:58. | |
improvement. But it is so transparent, isn't it? We phoned up | :09:59. | :10:02. | |
one of the women that sat behind David Cameron to ask, why the sudden | :10:03. | :10:07. | |
change? They said, I don't know why you are bothering to ask, it is | :10:08. | :10:10. | |
completely natural, we didn't do anything to stage manage it. Did his | :10:11. | :10:15. | |
nose gets longer? It is something that is very transparent and | :10:16. | :10:18. | |
depressing about the way politicians choose to react to these moments. | :10:19. | :10:24. | |
Every week they put two women behind David Cameron, so that a tight shot | :10:25. | :10:31. | |
shows them. It is called the doughnut. They don't have many women | :10:32. | :10:36. | |
to shuffle around, there are only four among 14 in the Shadow Cabinet. | :10:37. | :10:40. | |
Also, the fact that women, younger women in particular, are much less | :10:41. | :10:44. | |
likely to vote Tory than five or ten years ago. David Cameron, it drives | :10:45. | :10:50. | |
and furious, he is obviously aware this is one of the biggest potential | :10:51. | :10:56. | |
demographic problem is that they have. It also reminds us of how the | :10:57. | :11:00. | |
public can actually see the wiring behind a lot of the stuff. Do they | :11:01. | :11:04. | |
really think your blog so stupid that they will not notice that the | :11:05. | :11:09. | |
following week the front bench is packed with women? I think it just | :11:10. | :11:13. | |
increases contempt for the entire rocket. It is an issue where Labour | :11:14. | :11:18. | |
seem to have pulled ahead of the other parties. We are being told | :11:19. | :11:23. | |
that 50% of candidates in their 100 target seats will be female. It | :11:24. | :11:29. | |
looks like the composition of Labour continues to go towards a kind of | :11:30. | :11:34. | |
rough 50-50 split, eventually. Although that is true, I think the | :11:35. | :11:39. | |
faces we see on the telly, Ed Miliband, Ed Balls, Chris Leslie, | :11:40. | :11:42. | |
they are almost always men. There is a Rachel Reeves, a prominent female | :11:43. | :11:47. | |
face that goes up a lot. But really, the number of e-mails they put up is | :11:48. | :11:52. | |
proportionally a lot smaller. Is the Miliband team still a men's club? | :11:53. | :12:00. | |
Behind the scenes, it is very blokey. It's been described as a | :12:01. | :12:03. | |
kind of seminar room at a university. I think that is true. | :12:04. | :12:09. | |
The Observer did the cutout and keep of the people behind Mr Miliband. As | :12:10. | :12:14. | |
opposed to the Shadow Cabinet, with lots of women in it, it was very | :12:15. | :12:19. | |
male. The one reason Labour have all of these women to put up in | :12:20. | :12:22. | |
constituencies is all women short lists is. If Tories want to change | :12:23. | :12:27. | |
things, I know they can be prone to minute -- and in relation, but they | :12:28. | :12:39. | |
work. In ten years time, I think it will give Labour an immense | :12:40. | :12:46. | |
advantage. By then, I think they will have a woman leader. Who will | :12:47. | :12:51. | |
that be? Potentially somebody not even yet in the Commons. You can see | :12:52. | :12:55. | |
how quickly people can rise to the top, but the Labour Party is going | :12:56. | :13:04. | |
to be increasingly donated by women. Do you think there will be a Labour | :13:05. | :13:07. | |
Leader before Theresa May becomes leader of the Conservatives? I think | :13:08. | :13:13. | |
it is ultimately about Osborne trying to stop Boris. I think I | :13:14. | :13:17. | |
would be astonished if she managed it. The first female Labour Leader? | :13:18. | :13:25. | |
I would pick Rachel Reeves the way it is currently going, she knows her | :13:26. | :13:29. | |
stuff and does well on TV. That is all for this week. We have a week | :13:30. | :13:37. | |
off now. I'll be back in the week after next. Remember, if it is | :13:38. | :13:42. | |
Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics, unless it's a Parliamentary recess. | :13:43. | :13:45. |