23/04/2017 Sunday Politics East


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And I've been in Paris where voters are going to the polls in first


round of the French Presidential election - what could be the impact


on the EU and Brexit of this most unpredictable of contests?


Here in the east, the end of his career in politics


for Douglas Carswell following the announcement


And are county council is struggling to stay afloat?


Will the Remain majority punish the Tories for the decision?


Or feel they may not like it but the Tories


And with me has always ready for the marathon task of covering a snap


general election, even working on bank holidays, the best and


brightest political panel in the business. David Wooding, Polly


Toynbee and Toby Young. So Labour's big announcement this


morning was a crowd pleaser. Four more rainy bank


holidays to enjoy - one for each of the patron saints


of England, Scotland, But Mr Corbyn probably won't be


getting the time off work if he wins And on The Andrew Marr Show this


morning he was asked what he would do as Prime Minister


if the security services asked him to authorise a drone strike


on the leader of Islamic State. What I'd tell them is,


give me the information you've got, tell me how accurate that is,


tell me what you I'm asking you about decisions you


would take as Prime Minister. Can I take you back


to the whole point? Is the objective


to start more strikes that may kill many innocent


people, as has happened? Do you think killing


the leader of Isis would be I think the leader of Isis not


being around would be helpful, and I'm no supporter or defender


in any way of Isis. But I would also argue that


the bombing campaign has killed a of whom were virtually prisoners of


Isis. So you've got to think


about these things. Mr Corbyn earlier. David, is his


reply refreshing damaging? It is damaging. He has clearly been


freaked to the fire already in the first week, there will be lots of


questions on his suitability as a leader and the damage it could cause


to our national security over the weeks ahead and Andrew Marr has cut


straight to the chase here. The other thing, of course, is the


letters of last resort, one of the first duties of a Prime Minister


when he walks into No 10 is to sign these letters on his own, on or --


or on her own in a room, a very lonely moment, to decide whether he


should press the nuclear button and that goes in the Vanguard submarines


and is opened in the event of a strike and he has dodged a question


so many times. One must wonder what he would do that. He has to make


these decisions as Prime Minister. On the Isis point, refreshing or


damaging? It sure is his base, the people who support him, that's the


sort of thing they support info and maybe his tactic is that's all he's


going to get, that is what the polls seem to suggest, in which case they


will be pleased, and say yes, the man is a man for these who doesn't


press buttons and shoot people down. But if you want to win you have to


deal with your own weaknesses and reach out to other people. I think


most people would say that's not somebody who could defend the


country. I wonder if he was being totally honest in saying he would


consider it he would ask for more information. He has previously been


on the record as being against drone strikes in principle, he's


campaigned against them, he wants to abolish drones. I think Andrew Marr


let him off saying it was a drone strike rather than a Navy SEAL or


SAS operation and he had the fact that they could be collateral


damage. We that's not his position because he condemned the


assassination of Osama Bin Laden even though there was no collateral


damage. David is right on the Trident point, he fetched the


question. We heard Niall Griffiths on this very show saying Trident,


the renewal of Trident, would be in the next Labour Party manifesto. It


turns out now we don't know and when he was asked he said that remains to


be seen, his re-opened a can of worms. What he has said about


Trident which was extraordinary was, we will rebuild the submarines but


not have any nukes on them which is expensive and useless. And of course


the Labour Party were forced soon after that interview to put out a


statement saying it is Labour Party policy to renew Trident. So where


are we? Do we know what the party's policy is? It is to renew Trident


but he has started this review which involves looking at it all again. We


know he is a unilateralist to start with but whether he can force this


through is dubious. Does it matter, though, if the party policy is in


favour of Trident, if the leader is not? The potential Prime Minister is


not? They split three ways when they went to vote on it in the Commons.


The party agreed they were pro-Trident and when it came to the


vote they split three ways. I think it's difficult for them, it's always


been a really difficult issue for Labour. The question is whether you


want to seal off your negatives, whether you really want to try and


reach out to people. There are an awful lot of people who will like


what he said, there are an awful lot of people that think we have been


involved in terrible wars, we have wasted a lot of money and blood and


let's just get back from the whole thing, let's retreat from the world


and not try punching above our weight. There is something to be


said for that and it is a reasonable argument. He's been true to himself


on this. I think he is and Polly is right, lots of people will agree


with him, not enough to win a general election, the latest ComRes


poll shows Tories on 50% and Labour on 25 and as my colleague James


Forsyth in the Spectator said if this was a boxing match it would


have been stopped by now by the revelry. We are not stopping, we are


going on. So the political parties have had


to move into election mode Stand by for battle buses,


mail shots and your social media timeline being bombarded


by political propoganda. But none of this comes cheap -


Adam's been doing his sums. Democracy is priceless but those


planes, trains and automobiles used in the last election cost money


and we know exactly how much, thanks to the Electoral


Commission database. The Conservatives flew David Cameron


to every part of the UK in one day on a private plane costing ?29,000,


in-flight meals extra. They shelled out ?1.2 million


for adverts on Facebook. The most expensive item was their


election guru Lynton Crosby. They bought ?2.4 million worth


of advice and research from his firm Labour's biggest expenditure


was on good old-fashioned leaflets, costing ?7.4 million


to print and deliver. Hope they didn't go straight


into the recycling. Cheap for all the


enjoyment it gave us. To turn a normal minibus


into Harriet Harman's pink bus Nick Clegg toured the country doing


all manner of stunts transported although the party got a grand's


discount when it broke down. Ukip's then leader Nigel Farage


was accompanied by bodyguards Nicola Sturgeon's chopper


cost the SNP ?35,450. Plaid Cymru spent just over


?1,000 on media training And the Greens spent ?6,912


promoting their tweets. It adds up to a grand total


for all the parties of ?37,560,039. Jabbing at my calculator that works


out at less than ?1 per voter. Adam Fleming there -


and joining me now is the man responsible for the Conservative


election campaigns - for the locals next month


and the general election in June - Welcome to the programme. The Crown


Prosecution Service is reviewing evidence from 14 police forces that


your party breached election spending rules on multiple occasions


in the last election. What are you going to do differently this time?


Well, the battle buses are part of the National campaign spend. You saw


them just on the shot that you did, all three parties had those battle


buses so that's why we believe they were part of the national spend and


it was declared that way. At least 30 people in your party, MPs and


agents, being investigated because they may not have been right to


include it in the national spend. Are you saying you are going to do


nothing differently this time? You asked me about last time and the way


the position is... Was. I asked you about this time. We will take a


careful count and make sure that everything that we do is within the


law. But as I say, the last election, all three parties had


battle buses. It is your party that above all has been investigated by


14 police forces. You must surely be taking stock of that and working out


how to do some things differently. You are being investigated because


you put stuff on the National Ledger which should have been on the local


constituency ledger. Are you looking at that again? All of the parties


had battle buses and they all put them on their national spend. I


don't think any of the parties put them on the local spend. The other


battle buses were not full of their party activists. Your party stuffed


these battle buses with activists and took them to constituencies.


That's the difference. And I ask again, what is different this time?


Are you going to run the risk of being investigated yet again? We


believe that we fully compliant with the electoral law as it was. What


will happen if one of these, or two or three or four or five of these 30


people, Tory MPs, or agents running campaigns are charged during the


campaign? As I say I believe we properly declared our election


expenses. What happens if they are charged? You asking me a


hypothetical question, the importance of this election is about


who is in Downing Street in seven weeks' time. Let me clarify this,


you maintain that in 2015 you did nothing wrong with how you allocated


the cost and the activities of the battle buses and you would do


exactly the same this time round? What we did at the last election we


believe fully complied with the law. So the battle buses this time,


stocked full of activists, will still be charged to the national


campaign even when they go to local constituencies? Will they? We will


be looking at the way we do it, there is new guidance from the


Electoral Commission out and we will look at that guidance. It is not the


guidance, it is the lawful stop the Electoral Commission said that, if


you look at the report they did on us, they said there was one area


where we had over claimed, over declared, and another area we had


and declared. We haven't worked out what to do


yet, have you? We will get on with the campaign and


start the campaign and I'm looking forward to the campaign.


I'm trying to work out of the campaign is going to be legal or not


because last time it seems it could have been illegal.


I am sure the campaign will be legal.


You started the campaign warning about the prospect of, the coalition


of chaos. Mr Corbyn has ruled out a post-election coalition with the SNP


and so have the Lib Dems so who is going to be in this coalition?


Vince Cable said he was looking towards a possible coalition trying


to stop a Conservative government. Is not the leader of the Lib Dems.


He's an important voice in the Lib Dems. Who will be in it? Let's see


because of the Conservative Party is not re-elected with a strong


majority, what will happen? There will be a coalition stopping us


doing the things we need to do. Who will be in it? It will be a


coalition of the Labour Party, the SNP and the Liberal party. They have


ruled it out. I think they would not rule it out if that was the


situation. Like Theresa May not ruling out an election and then


changing her mind? The things the Prime Minister said were very clear,


once she had served Article 50 there was an opportunity, as we know


today, there is going to be the start of a new government formed in


France and in September we have the German elections. So it was quite


right that we didn't get ourselves boxed into a timetable. That is why


the Prime Minister took the view that they should be a general


election to give her full strength of an electoral mandate when it


comes to those negotiations. What about Mr Corbyn's plan for four new


bank holidays, good idea? I'm not... If we get Corbyn in No 10 Downing St


we will have a permanent bank holiday of the United Kingdom. We


will have fewer bank holidays of most other major nations, most about


major wealthy nations. What about at least one more? Well, look, he's


talked about four bank holidays. Today would be a bank holiday and


next Monday would be a bank holiday and the other week was a bank


holiday too. I don't think it's very well thought out. It sounded more to


me something like you get in school mock elections rather than proper


elections. Your party is the self-styled party of the workers and


you have no plans to give the workers even one extra bank holiday?


What we want to do is ensure Britain is a strong economy and building on


the jobs that we have created since 2010. We were told that by reducing


public expenditure unemployment in this country would go up,


unemployment has gone down and the number of jobs have gone up


substantially. But no more bank holidays? Well, we will make our


manifesto in due course but I don't think four bank holidays held in


April, March and November are very attractive to people. When Ed


Miliband as leader of the Labour Party suggested the government


should control energy prices by capping them, the Conservatives


described that as almost Communist and central planning. Do still take


that view? You'll see what we have to say on energy prices. I didn't


you about that, I asked you if you take the view... The Prime Minister


made a speech at the Conservative Spring conference in which she


outlined her dissatisfaction about people who are kept locked on a


standard tariff and those are the issues we will address in the next


few weeks when the manifesto was published.


Would that be an act of communism? You will need to see what we say


when we set out the policies. It could be. You could put a Communist


act into your manifesto? I don't think you'll find a Communist


manifesto in a Conservative manifesto which will be launched...


You are planning to control prices? We will address what we think is


unfairness in the energy market. Mr Jeremy Corbyn was reluctant this


morning to sanction a drone strike. You heard us talking about it


earlier against the leader of Islamic State if our intelligence


services identified him. What would it achieve? When the Prime Minister


gets certain advice in the national interests, she has to act been that.


We've seen with Theresa May in her time as Home Secretary and Prime


Minister, she's not afraid to take those very difficult decisions. What


we say this morning from Jeremy Corbyn was a his tans, a reluctance.


I don't think that serves the country well. What would it achieve


if we take out the head of Islamic State he's replaced by somebody


else. It brings their organisation into difficulties. It undermines


their organisation. It shows we'll take every measure to undo an


organisation which has organised terrorism in different parts of


Europe, the UK. I think it is absolutely right the Prime Minister


is prepared to take those kind of measures. Jeremy Corbyn said he


wasn't prepared to take that. Because he wasn't sure what it would


achieve. The Obama administration launched hundreds of drone strikes


in various war zones and we in the west are still under attack on a


regular basis. Mr Corbyn's basis was what would it achieve? It would


achieve a safer position for the UK overall. The war on terrorists. But


the Westminster attack, Paris has just been attacked again? There's


been attacks which have been stopped by the intelligence services. We


must do all we can to support them. The question was about drone


strikes. Whether it is drone strikes or other action, we have to be


prepared to act. Let's move on to Brexit. It is the major reason the


Prime Minister's called the election? Not the only within but


the main reason? It is one of the reasons. Now we start the two-year


negotiations and then a year afterwards. Also the way in which


certain people said they would try to use in the House of Lords or


House of Commons to prevent us making progress. I think you'll put


in your manifesto, it is the Government's policy, the Brexit


negotiating position will be no more freedom of movement. Leave the


single market and no longer under the jurisdiction Europe. You expect


every Tory MP to fight on that manifesto. What will you do with Ken


Clarke and Anna? They will have fought on their manifesto. They will


understand the Prime Minister has the authority of the ballot box


behind them. Will they fight the election on these positions? I'm


sure they'll fight the election supporting the election of a


Conservative Government and it's manifesto will quite clearly set


out... You know they're against these positions. Ken Clarke has a


prod tradition of expressing a certain view. Overall, the party's


manifesto, it is not just individuals like Ken Clarke, it is


what happens as far as the House of Lords are concerned, people said


they'd use the House of Lords to prevent certain measures. You're the


party chairman, will it be possible for people like Ken Clarke to fight


this election under the Conservative ticket without sub describing to all


-- subscribing to all of these Brexit conditions? Ken Clarke will


fight as Conservative candidates. That wasn't my question. I know


that. Will they be allowed to fight it on their own ticket and not


subscribe to what is in your manifesto? The manifesto will be


what the Conservative Party fights the General Election on. There will


always be cases where people have had different views on different


parts of the manifesto. That will be the guiding principles for the


party. Philip Hammond says your election promises in 2015, in your


manifesto not to raise taxes tied his hands when it came to managing


the economy. Do you agree with him? No. The simple fact is we have to do


the best things for the economy. We'll set out in our manifesto in a


few weeks' time, what the policies will be for the next Parliament. Can


I clarify, you don't agree with your Chancellor? What Philip was saying


was some of the areas we wants to address as Chancellor, what the


party will do, it will set out all the issues we're fighting on. It


will set out clearly the choice we have in this country. That's the


important thing. Let me put the question to you again. Philip


Hammond said this week your election promise in 2015 not to raise taxes


had tied his hands when it came to managing the economy. I ask you, do


you agree with him? You said no. Philip expressed his view as to what


he would like. What I'm saying is in a few weeks' time we'll set the


manifesto which will set the policies, agreed with the the


Cabinet. He's Chancellor. Doesn't he determine what the economic part of


the manifesto is? We'll talk about that in due course. Will you have a


lock on the taxes that you locked in 2015 on income tax, VAT, national


insurance? That will be decided. You'll see that when we publish the


manifesto in a few weeks' time. Will you rule out the possibility taxes


may have to rise under a future Conservative Party? Conservative


Government. We've taken four million people out of tax. Now, on average,


people are paying ?1200 less tax than they were on the same salaries


in 2010. I'm very provide of that. I can assure you, the Conservative


Party will want to see taxes reduced. It is the Labour Party


which will put up taxes. We have the evidence where this he did so.


Council tax went up by over 100%. You haven't reduced the tax burden


as a percentage of the GDP is now going to reach its highest level


since the mid-180s which was when Conservatives were in power. The tax


burden in this country under your Government is rising? We've more


people paying taxes which is something, because we've a growing


economy and more people... What about the tax band? You said you


reduced the tax burden on your own Government's figures is rising? We


have reduced the tax burden. The threshold at which people start


paying. These are tax rates not the tax burden. It is rising. The tax


rates have been reduced. You said tax burden. Perhaps I misspoke. Tax


rates have been reduced. We'll leave it there. No doubt we'll speak again


between now and June Is France now about to make it


a hat-trick of shocks The prospect terrifies


the governing elite in Paris. But they're no less scared


in Brussels and Berlin, given what it could mean


for the whole EU project, never mind the huge potential impact


on our own Brexit negotiations. 11 candidates are contesting


the first round of the presidential Only the top two will go forward


to the run-off on May 7th. For the first time since General De


Gaulle created the fifth Republic in 1958, it's perfectly possible that


no candidate from the ruling parties of the centre-left or the


centre-right will even make it The election has been dominated by


the hard right in the shape of the who's never been elected


to anything and only started his own party


a few months ago. And the far left in the form


of Jean-Luc Melenchon, a former Trotskyite who has surged


in the final weeks of the campaign. The only candidate left from the


traditional governing parties is the centre-right's


Francois Fillon and he's been struggling to stay in


the race ever since it was revealed that his Welsh wife was being paid


at generous public expense for a job I've just come across


this magazine cover and it kind of sums up the mood


of the French people. It's got the five main candidates


for President here but it calls them the biggest liar, the biggest cheat,


the biggest traitor, the most paranoid, the biggest demagogue,


and it says they are the winners The four leading candidates,


Le Pen, Melenchon, Macron and Fillon, or in with a chance


of making it to the second round. Only a couple of points separates


them in the polls, Frankly, no one has a clue what's


going to happen. Of the four, there is a feeling that


two of them may be President But the two of them may not find


themselves in the second round. Somebody said to me that the man or


woman on the Paris Metro has as much a chance of knowing


who will win as the greatest experts Because the more expert you are


the more you may be wrong. The country has largely


stagnated for over a decade. One in ten are unemployed,


one in four if you are unlucky Like Britain in the '70s there is


the pervasive stench There are three keywords that come


to mind. Anger, anger at the elite, and in


particular the political elite. And an element of


nostalgia for the past. These three words were decisive


in the Brexit referendum. They are decisive in


the French election. Identity and security has been


as important in this election France is a proud nation, it worries


about its future in Europe It seems bereft of ideas about how


to deal with its largely Muslim migrant population, huge chunks of


which are increasingly divorced It is quite simply exhausted by


the never-ending Islamist terrorist attacks, the latest only days before


voting in the iconic heart of this If Fillon or Macron emerge


victorious then there will be continuity of sorts, though Fillon


will struggle to implement his Thatcherite agenda and Macron will


not be able to count on the support of the French parliament, the


National Assembly, for his reforms. But if it's Le Pen or Jean-Luc


Melenchon then all bets are off. Both are hardline French


nationalists, anti the euro, anti the European Union, anti-fiscal


discipline, anti the market, Either in the Elysee Palace


would represent an existential Brexit would simply become


a sideshow, the negotiations could just peter out as Brussels


and Berlin had bigger fish to fry. We're joined now from


Paris by the journalist 8th Welcome to the programme.


Overshadowing the voting today was yet another appalling terrorist


attack in Paris on Thursday night. Do we have any indications of how


that's playing into the election? That initially people thought this


has been almost foiled in that the police were there as a ramp up. One


policeman was killed. But the terrorist did not spray the crowd


with bullets. It was seen as not having much of an effect on the


election. This has changed. We now know the policeman who was killed, a


young man about to the promoted, he was at the Bataclan the night of the


terror attack. He was a fighter for LGBT rights. The fact he was


promoted, happy within his job, he has this fresh face. Sudden, he's


one of us. It took perhaps 48 hours for the French to process this. But


now they're angry and this may actually change the game, at least


at the margins. To whose advantage? I would say the two who might


benefit from this are Marine Le Pen, she's been absolutely


anti-immigration, anti-anything. And made no bones about it as she


immediately made rather strange announcement in which she'd said if


she'd been president none of the terror attacks which happened in


France would have happened. Francois Fillon has written a book two years


ago called Combating Islamic Terrorism he's has an organised plan


in his manifesto. Unlike Emmanuel Macron who stumbled when he was


asked the evening this happened what he thought, he said, I can't dream


up an anti-terror programme overnight. The question, of course,


that arrows was this is not the sort of thing that's just happened


overnight. It's been unfortunately the fate of France for many years.


Let me ask you this finally, what ever the outcome on May 7th in the


second round, who ever wins, would it be fair to say French politics


will never be the same again? Yes. Absolutely it's a very strange


thing. People have no become really excited about this. You cannot go


anywhere without people discussing heatedly this election. The anger


that was described is very accurate. Very true. There was this feeling as


for the Brexit voters and the Trump voters, vast parts of the people


were being talked down to by people who despised them. This has to


change. If it doesn't change, we cannot predict what the future will


be. We'll know the results or at least the ex-the Poll London time


tonight at 8.00pm. Thank for joining us from the glorious heart of your


city. Now, the Green Party currently has


one MP and they'll be contesting many more seats in June


as well as hoping to increase their presence on councils in


the local elections on 4th May. Launching their campaign


on Thursday, co-leader Caroline Lucas made


a pitch to younger voters. When it comes to young


people they've been But one crucial way they've been


betrayed is by what this generation and this government and the previous


ones have been doing when it comes We know we had the hottest year


on record last year, you know, you almost think what else does


the environment need to be doing All the signs are there


and it is young people who are going to be bearing


the brunt of a wrecked environment and that's why it's so important


that when we come to making that pitch to, yes, the country at large


but to young people in particular, I think climate change,


the environment, looking after our precious resources,


has to be up there. And I'm joined now by the Green


MEP, Molly Scott Cato. Welcome back to the programme.


Promised to scrap university tuition fees, increase NHS funding, rollback


cuts to local councils spending, how much would that cost and how would


you pay for it? Like the other parties we haven't got a costed


manifesto yet, it's only a few days since the election was announced so


I will come back and explain the figures. You don't know? Like every


party we have not produced accosted manifesto yet, we produced one last


time but public spending figures have changed so we're not in a


position to do that but we will be in a week or so. What taxes would


you like to consider raising? We would consider having higher taxes


for the better off in society. I think we need to increase the amount


of tax wealthier people pay. How do you define better off? I'm not


entirely clear what the precise number would be but I think 100,000


people would pay a bit more, 150,000 quite considerably more but the real


focus needs to be on companies avoiding paying taxes. I work on


that a lot in my role in the European Parliament, we see an


enormous amount of tax avoidance by companies moving profits from


country to country and we need European corporation to make that


successful. It has not made much difference yet. We have made lots of


changes. Google turned over $1 billion and only paid 25 million in


taxes last year. There was a significant fine introduced by the


competition commission on Apple and in the case of Google we must change


the laws so that people cannot move profits from country to country.


Everybody wants to do it. But you couldn't face a big spending


programme on the ability to do that. You'd have to increase other taxes.


If you look at the cost of free student tuition, tuition fees and


also maintenance grants to students, that would come in at about 10


billion a year. One way of paying for that would be to remove the


upper threshold on National Insurance, bringing in 20 billion a


year, that's the order of magnitude we are talking about. It is not


vast, and some of the proposals we have... That would be an increase on


the better of tax? National Insurance on people earning...


People earning above 42,000. You would have another 10% tax above


42,000? I can't remember exactly how much the National Insurance rate


changes by. But in government figures it would be 28 billion


raised. I think it is up to 45, a bit more you pay a marginal rate of


40%, you would have them pay a marginal rate of over 50%? We would


put the National Insurance rate on higher incomes the same as it is on


lower incomes. If you are a school head of an English department on 50,


60,000 a year you would face a marginal rate under U of over 50%?


It is not useful to do this as a mental maths exercise but if you


look at other proposals would could have a landlord licensing system,


longer term leases on properties, so young people particularly, but also


older people who rent, could have more security which needn't cost


anything. We could insist on landlords paying for that. The


mental arithmetic seems clear but we will come back to that. How is the


Progressive Alliance coming? It is going well, I have heard of a lot of


interest at local level. Winterset this in contest, context, lots of


progressives are concerned about the crisis in public services, prisons,


social care system, and also about the Tories' hard extreme Brexit they


are threatening. You want the left to come together? Theresa May has


given us opportunity, she has taken a risk because she has problems with


backbenchers, she doesn't think she can get through Brexit with a small


majority so there is an opportunity and we are saying progressives must


come together to corporate, Conservatives are effective at using


the first-past-the-post system and we have to become effective as well.


Do you accept this Progressive Alliance cannot become the


government and Mr Corbyn is the Prime Minister? How could it happen


otherwise? I think that is a secondary question. For me the


primary question is who do people choose to vote for? Aluminium


government afterwards comes after the election. In most countries that


is the case. I understand that but we have the system we have and you


accept this Progressive Alliance cannot be in power and thus mystical


Burmese Prime Minister? Personally I think Mr Corbyn is less of a threat


to the country than Theresa May, she has shown herself to be an


authoritarian leader and she has said she doesn't want to have


dissidents, which I would say is reasonable opposition, and what we


are suggesting at the moment is there is a way of avoiding that very


hard Brexit and damage to public services. You'd be happy to pay the


price of having Mr Corbyn as Prime Minister? I do not see that as a


price. People have the choice of Jeremy Corbyn or Theresa May as


Prime Minister, that's the system that works. You would prefer Mr


Corbyn? I would but votes are translated into seats and the


Progressive Alliance is a step towards that.


It's just gone 3:50pm, you're watching the Sunday Politics.


We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, Wales


and Northern Ireland who leave us now.


Coming up here in 20 minutes, the Week Ahead.


Hello and welcome to Sunday Politics East.


Later in the programme, a controversial MP


decides to call it a day, declaring - job done over Brexit.


And with the local elections two weeks away, choppy waters ahead for


But first this week, the shock announcement of a


We will go to the polls on June the 8th,


with the Prime Minister saying she wants unity at Westminster.


And already we are seeing repercussions


The Northampton South MP David McIntosh is facing deselection


Meanwhile, in Essex Douglas Carswell, the MP for Clacton,


announced he will not be standing this time around.


One of the leaders in the campaign for a referendum, he


was first elected as a Conservative in 2005, beating Labour to become


Four years later he led the campaign to


oust the Speaker Michael Martin in the wake of the MPs' expenses


And then, in 2014, his shock defection to Ukip and


He defended the seat with a reduced majority


His relationship with the former leader of Ukip Nigel Farage


was difficult, and last month he resigned from the party, pledging


Now, he says, it's job done and he is


Well, a few minutes ago I spoke to Mr Carswell


in London, and asked if he was sure he had made the right


It's clearly the right decision for me, I think


I think it's the right decision for Brexit.


I went into politics to do a job and I feel I've done it.


We are hearing now Aaron Banks may be


going to stand, either as a Ukip candidate


You know, Aaron is of very little concern to me and I think


probably of less concern to the folk in Clacton.


It is good that in a democracy people can put their name


on the ballot, but I suspect there may even be a couple of Monster


I think we need to focus on the key issue.


do you want to have Jeremy Corbyn or Theresa May in Number Ten?


And I think that's really what's going


As far as you're concerned, you had a


difficult relationship with Mr Cameron, you had a difficult


Which one of those that you get on better with, do you think?


I actually like David Cameron as a person,


I think he is a thoroughly decent, reasonable person.


But the thing about party leaders is actually they quite often need


Conservative Party a little bit of a nudge to promise us that


referendum, and I think I had to give Nigel a


bit of a nudge to stop him dominating the referendum


But, you know, I've occasionally fallen out with one or


two colleagues in my time in Parliament but I don't think I've


really fallen out with the folk in Clacton.


I've done everything I've done in Westminster with one eye on


what is going on in my part of Essex and asking would


When he became an MP for the area, Jaywick Was in the bottom ten


of the most deprived places in the country.


As you leave being the MP it is the bottom.


So some places you haven't managed to achieve what you


If I may say, I think there has been progress


in Jaywick, and that the reason I say that is because we got to the


bottom of what is the problem of Jaywick's, if you call it,


dilapidation, and that is there have been blanket


bans on any new developments in Jaywick for the past 40 years and


working with the council and a meeting I organised in the House


of Commons with the Environment Agency, we've removed many of those


restrictions and we are now starting to see private investment and


And I say that, you know, whatever party


you belong to, if you look at what the District Council has done as a


whole, working together, they have actually made sure


we are going to start seeing new development and


improvement in Jaywick and West Clacton, and I think


Far from being a lack of action, I think we


It is going to take time to filter through but we are making progress.


There has been a lot said since he decided


to stand down about the


meeting you had with Mr Reckless at Tate Britain about infiltrating


Ukip and maybe changing the policies of


Can you tell us a bit more about that meeting?


Actually, when I joined Ukip I called a press


conference on August the 28th 2014 in the centre of London and I very


clearly said in order for Euroscepticism to be able to gain


popular support, whether as Ukip or as Provoked Leave, Euroscepticism


needed to be optimistic, it needed to be different from that Britain


gone to the dogs, angry nativism that is so often defined parts of my


And I was quite clear and open about that agenda to


try to make Euroscepticism more broadly based and I would say


almost exactly a year ago by creating a broad coalition, so


Euroscepticism was seen as a progressive, positive,


internationalist thing to do, I think that decision has actually


So there was nothing cloak and dagger about that


I always meet colleagues and talk to colleagues.


I happen to meet them in the House of Commons


and if I want a bit of


privacy in Tate Britain down the river.


The reality is I was quite frank and open.


If you look at many of the blogs I've wrote before and


after I joined Ukip I again and again made this point, angry


nativism doesn't win elections and it certainly doesn't win


And I think by being the only successful Ukip candidate


at the last general election I emphatically demonstrated angry


nativism cannot win you a parliamentary constituency.


When you decided to resign from Ukip did you


think you had three years to maybe make your peace


with the Conservative Party and


hopefully be the candidate at the next general election?


The day after the referendum on June the


24th last year I was very close to announcing I was going to be


standing down from politics completely, several people persuaded


me to hang in there because there was a possibility MPs in the Commons


would still try and unpack the deal, and we saw the Gina Miller attempt


I then made it clear to myself and the various


people around me I was going to leave Ukip once Article 50 was


triggered, I was then going to announce I


was leaving politics and


April 2019, the month when we finally leave the EU.


All that Theresa May's snap general election


announcement has done is bring forward a 24


months the decision I


How will you look back on your career,


personally, in Parliament and how do you think history will judge you?


I leave it to others to speculate about history.


Ultimately, I'm just a footnote, but I can't think any


higher privilege I could have ever had than to have been able to call


myself a member of Parliament for Clacton.


It has been a tremendous honour and it has been wonderful and


to those who voted for me thank you, to those who didn't vote for me then


I hope you will choose wisely in a few weeks' time.


Life has got too many rich opportunities in it to


I went into politics because I passionately believe that we


I feel I have done that job, I've stood for election five times, I've


won four times, the only person, incidentally, I ever lost an


But it has been a tremendous exhilarating


I've loved it and I can walk out saying I did what I


Joining me today, from Norwich from the Green Party


Here in the studio we have Dave Hodgson, the elected Liberal


from Cambridgeshire who has recently been awarded an MBE.


He described your party as going to the dogs


Well, do you know, before I answer that question, and I will,


I think he has been one of the best MPs


in the House of Commons all the


way through, no matter what party he has been


involved in, Ukip, the


Conservatives, or sat as an independent,


he is an MP who truly believes in because he was in


Conservatives, or sat as an independent, he is an MP


who truly believes the cauysecause he was in


You're party spent a lot of money getting him into


Parliament, now he has walked away from it.


He was in Parliament, there are very few MPs who crossed the


floor and actually hold a by-election and put their career


at stake and we in Ukip have that as a policy base.


Douglas honoured that and not many MPs would have.


So there is a man whose maiden speech


12 years ago was all about coming out of the EU and I think he


genuinely believe with Ukip's help he has achieved that.


The problem is I think he is premature, and I hope


I am wrong, but I think it is premature, in that what we have


actually been left with is a pro-remain Parliament, pro-remain


Conservative Party and a pro-remain Prime Minister trying to negotiate


against some very sophisticated people


in the EU who are not on the


And so here is a great opportunity with the general


election to get some people who really believe in Brexit


Rupert, we will bring you in this here.


It made me smile when he said that, Stuart, because I think


with May, we will be heading for anything but that.


I just want to go back to Ukip for a second and


one thing that is very important to get clear,


when Brexit is all done and dusted people will turn back to


the great issue of our time, dangerous climate change, and we


must never forget Ukip are the party of climate change denial.


Climate change denial is vile and despicable and it


amounts to kicking our children in the teeth


and that is the kind of


thing I hope people will be thinking about this election.


What we need to do is think truly long-term.


When Brexit is done and dusted we will


have to go back to the issues that will be determinative.


What kind of planet are we bequeathing to our


That is the long-term thinking we really


Vile, I think was the word, Peter Reeve.


Well, I love Rupert to bits but he would shut down every


business, take every car off the road, to be


shut down transport and


he would stop people living their lives.


I'm going to have to let him answer that one.


Would you shut down business and take every car off


Well, it is very funny that Peter should hone in there on


transport policy which is one of our great areas of strength, and both


in the local and general election one of the reasons


So we can have a massive investment in


public transport which is one of our signature


policies and actually an


Absolutely, but it seems like interfering in a family feud with


Ukip, you are never quite sure whether they are a member, a past


member or a future member, as people come and go under


arguments with whoever the current leader is or with


I think Rupert is a right that climate change is a real issue


and you can't have climate change deniers because it is our children


and our grandchildrens' future and it is real.


But we must say you were part of the coalition, your party,


No, we were a small part of the coalition and coalitions are


organisations where if you are a small part


you have to do things you


don't want to do and you have seen a post 2015 the difference we did


make them the coalition by stopping some


of the excesses of cuts that are happening with the Conservative


So are you ready for a general election?


I think I screamed when I heard it at 11am on Tuesday


We have got most of our candidates selected, I


think we are well on the way to getting that but it will be hard.


Just before we move on let me ask you about Aaron Banks.


Would you welcome him and being your Ukip candidate in


One of the things about Ukip is it is entirely grassroots led and


community led so and the people who decide


local members in local constituencies.


Unlike the Conservatives and Labour, who seem


to be forcing candidates than people's throats, Ukip believes in


So you can expect a lot of election leaflets through your door


Before that, though, the county council


With elections everywhere except Bedfordshire where there are no


elections in the three unitary authorities.


Our county councils face a number of challenges and


They have already cut spending dramatically.


In the four years after 2010 spending by our county


how they will navigate the problems ahead.


We know what the buildings look like, we know the people inside


hold lots of meetings and they quite often seem to argue with each other.


But it's all matters because whether you like it or not


county councils play an important part in our lives.


Whether it is looking after vulnerable older people,


safeguarding children, libraries, 70% of roads


across the country are


maintained by county councils, so the web and weft of everyday


life, the stuff we all use every day, that


is not decided by MPs in Westminster that is delivered by county


councils, and decisions about that are made by county councils.


Jim ran Northamptonshire County Council for


Lots of challenges, and the really important


thing is making sure you


get good quality services at good value for money.


But nowadays the general consensus is running a


county council is more like a visit to the Lee Valley Whitewater Centre


in Hertfordshire - rough, unpredictable and always the chance


It wasn't so pressurised as it is today, it was


possible to make decisions more confidently.


Nowadays you really have to go back to the budget book


and make sure the funds are there and there


isn't a different way of


That sometimes does restrict initiative.


There is an uncertain funding situation, we are


seeing demand go through the roof at the very same time we see


Since George Osborne's first austerity budget the Government's


grants to county councils has been cut by more than 40%.


Authorities have had to become more efficient


and that meant hitting the so-called back-office.


Many, like Suffolk County Council, now share their


premises with district councils, and thousands of staff have been


made redundant or outsourced to other


fewer posts at the county council, 1600 fewer in Essex, 1000 in


Northamptonshire, almost 600 fewer in Cambridgeshire.


That puts pressure on the staff that remain.


For example, most notably in children's services.


Social workers now deliver even more admin support


than they did because their business support and admin has been


cut, which has a significant implication on service delivery and


is something that is often overlooked.


There has also been big changes to the services


Youth services were an early casualty, elderly care has been


outsourced in most places, but funding hasn't always followed.


In Suffolk, the libraries are now run


While in Norfolk subsidies for public transport and


crossing patrols regularly come under the spotlight.


Funding pressures are likely to get even


worse if the Government grants stops and councils have to rely on local


We've seen savings on all those key services and the


big question now is whether there is anything left to take out of the


system or whether we are going to have to start looking at stopping


In every county in this region the same issue


confronts the voters in these elections -


which party is best placed to manage an ever declining


budget and still provide the important services people rely on.


In this region the Conservatives have nearly always


county council but in the last four years the Givings Ukip and Lib Dems


Blocking budget proposals, raising uncomfortable


issues, changing the


way council business is conducted in Cambridgeshire and Norfolk.


as it gets even harder to navigate the choppy waters of council


Rupert Reid in Norwich, how would you balance


Well, our approach as Greens is firstly


lot more funding from central Government for local Government.


Hang on, you are not going to get that so how are you


Well, it depends what happens at the


You cannot treat these two elections separately.


I hope what people do at the general election is


a vote for parties that will actually increase funding to local


Government which means above all, the Greens, because we believe


passionately in decentralisation, a real


decentralisation, to local Government.


But, actually, it looks as though the Conservatives have a


big lead and would not change the funding


formula, so how would you


The first thing we would do if we were placed in that very


difficult situation is stop funding things which are a complete


Such as the Northern distributor roads


and other road-building programme here in Norfolk which all parties


except for the Greens have supported.


Hundreds of millions of pounds being wasted there.


Let's take that money and put it into real


proper council services that people need.


Actually, the Lib Dems have done quite well in by-elections


Have you been forgiven, do you think, for the coalition?


You are quite right, we have done very


I think 33 net gains in the past year.


Taking seats from all parties in areas that were


And we hope to do well in the county council elections


So why is it do you think people are coming back to you?


I think it is hard work on the ground.


I think we are showing we want to deliver services.


I run a council where we have had to balance the


books for the past eight years, it is getting more and more


difficult but we show we can deliver services.


In Bedford we are doing that despite the cuts.


But as Rupert said, and as you have said, it is getting more


and more difficult as we get more and more cuts and there will have to


Ukip have had some interesting developments at council level.


You have had people resign, people say


Where do you stand going into the local elections?


It is interesting the media tend to focus on that.


That happens to all parties and local Government and it is just


when it happens to Ukip it is of the


national press, when it happens to Labour, the Lib Dems,


We stand by our councillors, 147 of them are facing


You can't blame the media for doing all that.


A parish councillor puts a letter in the newspaper as a


Conservative parish council and no one bats an eyelid.


He changes to Ukip puts in the same letter and it is on


the Sunday Politics show with ministers talking about it.


That is how hard Ukip have been battered.


To answer your question, the reality is


we stand by the record of our councillors.


These are people who have worked very hard in the local


community and I think we will see in the election results


all the national picture and the media stories aside,


in the election results people will judge is based on the hard


Our guys are in running those libraries voluntarily.


People like me clean the toilets in our local town.


The point about what Green councillors have done is they


have done very good stuff, whether in power or out of power.


Including massive action on tackling air


pollution, one of the great scourges of our time,


and if people vote Green at these elections they will


know that is the best way of tackling, for example, air


Thank you very much for being with us today.


We are going to finish today with our round-up of a


very busy week in politics in 60 Seconds.


It is all change at cereal giant Weetabix in Northamptonshire,


where the breakfast manufacturer has been sold


Local farmers supply wheat for 3 million biscuits a year.


We will continue to make, market and sell our brands here and


Northamptonshire and we will also continue to source our wheat from


Children here face a fight for school places after


being turned down at the local primary despite living just 500


Four-year-old Oscar faces a three mile round trip in September.


A bit more planning and a bit more foresight


could have prevented this


Instead it is having a huge impact on the families


Over in Holland, qualified nurses visit elderly patients at


home, cutting emergency hospital admissions by one third.


Now nurses in West Suffolk are trying the same


Back home in the House of Commons one MP and didn't exactly pick up


his hometown with this invitation to the PM.


Will the Prime Minister come to Kettering,


I'd be happy to visit the Kettering constituency in the


In fact I expect in the next few weeks I


will be visiting quite a few constituencies.


We are back next week at the usual time


on issues like the NHS. Run out of time. Andrew, back to you.


Now, Ukip have made their first significant policy announcement


of the election campaign today with a call for a ban on wearing


But is it a policy that will meet with the approval of the man


who bankrolled the party's last general election campaign?


Hello, Andrew. Let me see if I can clarify some things, are you a


member of Ukip? I a patron of Ukip so I don't stop being a member. So


you are still a member? I am, apparently for life. Are you still


hoping to bankroll Ukip? Not at the moment. Why is that? The internal


problems we have had in Ukip have been aired, and a lot needs to


happen in the party in terms of professionalising it and I think it


is ill-prepared for this general election. Are you going to run in


Clacton? I will be if selected. For Ukip? Yes. Have you been to Clacton?


I've been with Nigel Mansell on the campaign. You will run for a


constituency you've only been in once? Yes, why does that surprise


you? You know nothing about it. I've just recently decided to become the


candidate there. Did you know where it is? Of course I do, your piece


the other night was completely wrong. I said I knew where it was


but I didn't know much about it. Maybe the people of Clacton will


regard you as a carpetbagger? Why? Because you have never been there.


Most politicians are carpetbaggers and I will be there for the right


reasons. I thought it was because of your visceral hatred of Douglas


Carswell. He only lasted 24 hours after I announced my candidacy so we


will see what happens. The main thing I am going to Clacton on


Monday to meet the Ukip councillors, see what the issues are and see if


they want me as a candidate. They may not want me. Who do you think


you will be up against? The potential Conservative candidate.


Who in Ukip? I don't suppose anyone in Ukip will stand against me, I


wouldn't have thought. Really? I would have thought. Money talks! Why


do you say that? You talked about having a pirate radio station to


blast into Clacton so it is not covered by the election rules.


You've been talking about financing a sort of right-wing Momentum


movement. I just wonder, has politics now just become a


Richmond's hobby? From my perspective the reason I'm


interested in it is if you have looked at what has happened in the


country, it's clear the Conservatives will have a massive


majority. -- has politics become a rich man's hobby. Only putting up


candidates not against Brexit MPs. Is Ukip over? I don't think so. The


electoral maths is interesting because first-past-the-post


effectively could help Ukip in this example. Ukip got one MP with 4


million votes. What we are seeing is the total collapse of Labour. In


that situation there are certain seats up north in Hartlepool and


other seats like that, the total collapse of the Labour Party could


help Ukip to win a few seats. Is Ukip over? It looks that way, yes.


They haven't made much of a dent in Labour's vote in the north, they


don't really have a defining issue anymore and all the polls we have


seen published since the election was called show Ukip vote is going


to the Conservatives. Is Ukip over? It always happens when the


Conservative Party goes far to the right, really hard Brexit, there is


no space for BMP, Ukip and all of that. Are you associating the BNP


with Ukip? Or that, movements to the right of the Conservatives get eaten


up one the Conservatives move as far right as Theresa May has done. I


think what your enterprise shows is how it's really time to reform


funding of political parties. It is disgraceful that very rich people


can move in and bankroll the Brexit campaigned to the extent that they


did. We need proper state funding of parties. The union is bankrolling


Labour. I assume the reform would include trade unions? Indeed. Ukip


has lost its talisman in Nigel Farage, it was a one-man party, I


have to say, people like Tim. Having voted for Brexit its reason to be


has gone. It will still take votes from Labour and the Conservatives


but probably only from the don't knows. There are seats in certain


places where if enough Tories back Ukip dated when. Hartlepool is an


example. Were the Tories will never win. The demise of Ukip has been


forecasted many times before but I don't see a Tory candidate winning


in a place like Hartlepool. So we could see, and I think we will see,


the total collapse of the Labour vote. We shall see. The leader of


the party of which you say you are still a patron, Paul Nuttall, said


he would ban the Burcea and the niqab in public, what is your view?


-- the niqab and the Burcea? I'm not in agreement with that. If it is a


security issue at airports or public transport it could be acceptable but


I'm not in favour of curtailing people's writes. You have gone


further than him, haven't you? You tweeted you wanted to ban Muslim


immigration. In my view the problem we have had with the lack of


integration in certain communities has come about through mass


open-door immigration. If you are a must win you wouldn't be allowed in?


What I said in the tweet was I think they should be a ban on


immigration... You said Muslim immigration. That's what I believe.


If you are a world famous doctor coming to help one of our big


teaching hospitals in this country because you are a Muslim you could


not get in? We have to start somewhere, there are huge problems


in areas where 20% of the population don't speak the language, they


haven't integrated. You should read the rest of the tweet, it is control


of immigration from a 10-year ban on unskilled immigration. The first


thing you said was to ban Muslim immigration, it is in black and


white. I have said that, I do not dispute that. I was questioning


that. There is my answer, you cannot tell somebody's will adjust freedoms


but what you can do is stop adding to the problem. Doesn't that sound a


bit like the BNP? It's as like BNP and like Trump. Its, we hate


Muslims, fine, if that is what you are standing for, that is clear. The


final word is we have had open-door mass immigration from the


Conservative Party, we've had it from the Labour Party and its fine


if you are in north London to say these things, if you live in Oldham


and your community has been radically changed and you have a


whole population not integrating in, not speaking the language, something


has got to be done. We had better leave it there. Thank you for coming


in. I am en route to Clacton. We will see how you get on there.


Now, Lib Dem leader Tim Farron was on TV earlier today


and he was asked again about an issue that he's been


asked about repeatedly - his attitude to homosexuality.


when they asked you whether gay sex was a sin.


Come on, Robert, I've been asked this question loads


few days and I have been clear, even in the House of Commons,


It's possible I'm not the only person getting tired


Probably, but then why don't you just close it down?


Toby Young, why does he get into such a mess over this? I mean, he is


leader of the Liberal Democrats. Its 2017. I guess the reason he keeps


refusing to answer that question is because what the implication is that


he does think that homosexual acts are sinful, and he cannot bring


himself not to say that, or to say what Robert Peston and others want


him to say because he is an evangelical Christian who converted


at the age of 20, 21, and clearly he really struggles with this issue and


I think it will be really difficult for the Lib Dems to promote, or even


Lib Dem candidates like Vince Cable, to promote the idea of the


Progressive Alliance even though Tim has ruled it out, if he is not


prepared to say I don't think homosexual acts are sinful. What is


your view? It is disastrous if that is what he really thinks but Preston


did not push the hard. I'm not sure he understood the difference about


the question between gay sex and being gay. I think he just thought


he was going on saying I'm not anti-gay. He needs to command


immediately and clarify it. If you are right and he does actually think


it is a sin he is in real trouble. There is a slight parallel with what


police said before about Jeremy Corbyn, how his unilateral nuclear


policy would appeal to the hard core of the left. The problem for Tim


Farron with what he is saying here, while he is an evangelical


Christian, this will not appeal to traditional Liberal Democrats. An


LGBT community member cannot possibly vote for an MP who believes


that a sexual act between homosexuals is sinful. He has not


made that clear. Of course, he wants to stop Brexit as well so he is


neither liberal nor democratic. He will have seven weeks to make it


clear because I am sure he will be asked again. We have the chairman of


the Conservative Party on earlier, Polly. An important figure for the


Tory campaign. What did you make of what he said? I don't think he will


have him on very often, he didn't do brilliantly. I think they will bring


back chemical Ali, Michael Fallon, he can say anything with a straight


face, he can say black is white. Michael Fallon, chemical Ali? Why do


you say that? He can absolutely say black is white. For instance if you


look back at what he said, you challenged him about the energy


policy, when Ed Miliband came out with it, he said any kind of freeze


would stop investment, the lights will go out. You have him on, he


will say the exact opposite. He is magic at that. But I don't think


your guy today was up to the job. If Michael Fallon was chemical Ali, or


we should say chemical Fally, Patrick was more like comical Ali.


The whole Iraq war is rushing back at me. He is the warm up comedian,


there is another six weeks to go, just getting things started. What


did you think? I don't think he was too bad, it was difficult for him to


say exactly what was in the 2050 manifesto is going to be replicated


in the Conservatives' manifesto during this general election, he


doesn't want to be seen rowing back on stuff but on the other hand I


don't think he can conceal the fact they will be far fewer commitments


in this Conservative manifesto than in the last one, as you and I know,


it was full of rash promises last time because they thought they would


have to trade a lot of them away in the negotiations with the Liberal


Democrats to form a second coalition so they are saddled with policies


they don't particularly want to be hemmed in by. The forthcoming


Conservative manifesto will be much lighter and shorter with fewer


commitments. Different? Some stuff jumped from the 2050 manifesto? I


think so but we will see a commitment to run schools to


overcome that hurdle in the next parliament and I don't think, in


spite of what you think, Polly, that it will be a hard tack to the right.


I think if anything the mood music of the Conservative manifesto will


be a centrist inclusive one. The mood music will be because the


specifics would be there. She is good at saying governing for


everybody and the many and not the few but when you look at the hard


facts of what her and Hammond's budget looks like, you look at her


hard Brexit, it's a very different story. Or that, the music has


stopped for this week! Thank you. I will be back next week at the normal


time of 11am on Sunday morning. On BBC One The Daily Politics is back


at midday tomorrow and we will be on every day next week on BBC Two.


Remember, if it's Sunday, it is The Sunday Politics.


There'll be a couple of hours of just fantastic music, really,


all the Ella classics, as well as some very special guests,


we have Mica Paris, Imelda May, Dame Cleo Laine


'There's a side to Rory that the public doesn't see.


'Rory has suspected for some time that he may have ADHD.


Here we have the first hydrogen bomb that went into service with


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