23/04/2017 Sunday Politics East


23/04/2017

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And I've been in Paris where voters are going to the polls in first

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round of the French Presidential election - what could be the impact

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on the EU and Brexit of this most unpredictable of contests?

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Here in the east, the end of his career in politics

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for Douglas Carswell following the announcement

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And are county council is struggling to stay afloat?

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Will the Remain majority punish the Tories for the decision?

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Or feel they may not like it but the Tories

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And with me has always ready for the marathon task of covering a snap

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general election, even working on bank holidays, the best and

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brightest political panel in the business. David Wooding, Polly

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Toynbee and Toby Young. So Labour's big announcement this

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morning was a crowd pleaser. Four more rainy bank

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holidays to enjoy - one for each of the patron saints

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of England, Scotland, But Mr Corbyn probably won't be

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getting the time off work if he wins And on The Andrew Marr Show this

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morning he was asked what he would do as Prime Minister

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if the security services asked him to authorise a drone strike

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on the leader of Islamic State. What I'd tell them is,

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give me the information you've got, tell me how accurate that is,

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tell me what you I'm asking you about decisions you

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would take as Prime Minister. Can I take you back

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to the whole point? Is the objective

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to start more strikes that may kill many innocent

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people, as has happened? Do you think killing

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the leader of Isis would be I think the leader of Isis not

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being around would be helpful, and I'm no supporter or defender

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in any way of Isis. But I would also argue that

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the bombing campaign has killed a of whom were virtually prisoners of

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Isis. So you've got to think

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about these things. Mr Corbyn earlier. David, is his

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reply refreshing damaging? It is damaging. He has clearly been

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freaked to the fire already in the first week, there will be lots of

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questions on his suitability as a leader and the damage it could cause

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to our national security over the weeks ahead and Andrew Marr has cut

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straight to the chase here. The other thing, of course, is the

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letters of last resort, one of the first duties of a Prime Minister

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when he walks into No 10 is to sign these letters on his own, on or --

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or on her own in a room, a very lonely moment, to decide whether he

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should press the nuclear button and that goes in the Vanguard submarines

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and is opened in the event of a strike and he has dodged a question

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so many times. One must wonder what he would do that. He has to make

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these decisions as Prime Minister. On the Isis point, refreshing or

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damaging? It sure is his base, the people who support him, that's the

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sort of thing they support info and maybe his tactic is that's all he's

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going to get, that is what the polls seem to suggest, in which case they

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will be pleased, and say yes, the man is a man for these who doesn't

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press buttons and shoot people down. But if you want to win you have to

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deal with your own weaknesses and reach out to other people. I think

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most people would say that's not somebody who could defend the

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country. I wonder if he was being totally honest in saying he would

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consider it he would ask for more information. He has previously been

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on the record as being against drone strikes in principle, he's

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campaigned against them, he wants to abolish drones. I think Andrew Marr

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let him off saying it was a drone strike rather than a Navy SEAL or

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SAS operation and he had the fact that they could be collateral

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damage. We that's not his position because he condemned the

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assassination of Osama Bin Laden even though there was no collateral

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damage. David is right on the Trident point, he fetched the

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question. We heard Niall Griffiths on this very show saying Trident,

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the renewal of Trident, would be in the next Labour Party manifesto. It

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turns out now we don't know and when he was asked he said that remains to

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be seen, his re-opened a can of worms. What he has said about

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Trident which was extraordinary was, we will rebuild the submarines but

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not have any nukes on them which is expensive and useless. And of course

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the Labour Party were forced soon after that interview to put out a

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statement saying it is Labour Party policy to renew Trident. So where

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are we? Do we know what the party's policy is? It is to renew Trident

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but he has started this review which involves looking at it all again. We

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know he is a unilateralist to start with but whether he can force this

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through is dubious. Does it matter, though, if the party policy is in

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favour of Trident, if the leader is not? The potential Prime Minister is

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not? They split three ways when they went to vote on it in the Commons.

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The party agreed they were pro-Trident and when it came to the

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vote they split three ways. I think it's difficult for them, it's always

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been a really difficult issue for Labour. The question is whether you

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want to seal off your negatives, whether you really want to try and

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reach out to people. There are an awful lot of people who will like

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what he said, there are an awful lot of people that think we have been

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involved in terrible wars, we have wasted a lot of money and blood and

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let's just get back from the whole thing, let's retreat from the world

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and not try punching above our weight. There is something to be

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said for that and it is a reasonable argument. He's been true to himself

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on this. I think he is and Polly is right, lots of people will agree

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with him, not enough to win a general election, the latest ComRes

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poll shows Tories on 50% and Labour on 25 and as my colleague James

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Forsyth in the Spectator said if this was a boxing match it would

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have been stopped by now by the revelry. We are not stopping, we are

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going on. So the political parties have had

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to move into election mode Stand by for battle buses,

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mail shots and your social media timeline being bombarded

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by political propoganda. But none of this comes cheap -

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Adam's been doing his sums. Democracy is priceless but those

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planes, trains and automobiles used in the last election cost money

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and we know exactly how much, thanks to the Electoral

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Commission database. The Conservatives flew David Cameron

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to every part of the UK in one day on a private plane costing ?29,000,

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in-flight meals extra. They shelled out ?1.2 million

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for adverts on Facebook. The most expensive item was their

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election guru Lynton Crosby. They bought ?2.4 million worth

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of advice and research from his firm Labour's biggest expenditure

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was on good old-fashioned leaflets, costing ?7.4 million

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to print and deliver. Hope they didn't go straight

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into the recycling. Cheap for all the

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enjoyment it gave us. To turn a normal minibus

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into Harriet Harman's pink bus Nick Clegg toured the country doing

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all manner of stunts transported although the party got a grand's

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discount when it broke down. Ukip's then leader Nigel Farage

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was accompanied by bodyguards Nicola Sturgeon's chopper

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cost the SNP ?35,450. Plaid Cymru spent just over

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?1,000 on media training And the Greens spent ?6,912

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promoting their tweets. It adds up to a grand total

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for all the parties of ?37,560,039. Jabbing at my calculator that works

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out at less than ?1 per voter. Adam Fleming there -

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and joining me now is the man responsible for the Conservative

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election campaigns - for the locals next month

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and the general election in June - Welcome to the programme. The Crown

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Prosecution Service is reviewing evidence from 14 police forces that

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your party breached election spending rules on multiple occasions

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in the last election. What are you going to do differently this time?

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Well, the battle buses are part of the National campaign spend. You saw

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them just on the shot that you did, all three parties had those battle

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buses so that's why we believe they were part of the national spend and

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it was declared that way. At least 30 people in your party, MPs and

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agents, being investigated because they may not have been right to

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include it in the national spend. Are you saying you are going to do

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nothing differently this time? You asked me about last time and the way

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the position is... Was. I asked you about this time. We will take a

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careful count and make sure that everything that we do is within the

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law. But as I say, the last election, all three parties had

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battle buses. It is your party that above all has been investigated by

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14 police forces. You must surely be taking stock of that and working out

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how to do some things differently. You are being investigated because

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you put stuff on the National Ledger which should have been on the local

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constituency ledger. Are you looking at that again? All of the parties

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had battle buses and they all put them on their national spend. I

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don't think any of the parties put them on the local spend. The other

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battle buses were not full of their party activists. Your party stuffed

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these battle buses with activists and took them to constituencies.

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That's the difference. And I ask again, what is different this time?

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Are you going to run the risk of being investigated yet again? We

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believe that we fully compliant with the electoral law as it was. What

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will happen if one of these, or two or three or four or five of these 30

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people, Tory MPs, or agents running campaigns are charged during the

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campaign? As I say I believe we properly declared our election

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expenses. What happens if they are charged? You asking me a

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hypothetical question, the importance of this election is about

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who is in Downing Street in seven weeks' time. Let me clarify this,

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you maintain that in 2015 you did nothing wrong with how you allocated

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the cost and the activities of the battle buses and you would do

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exactly the same this time round? What we did at the last election we

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believe fully complied with the law. So the battle buses this time,

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stocked full of activists, will still be charged to the national

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campaign even when they go to local constituencies? Will they? We will

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be looking at the way we do it, there is new guidance from the

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Electoral Commission out and we will look at that guidance. It is not the

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guidance, it is the lawful stop the Electoral Commission said that, if

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you look at the report they did on us, they said there was one area

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where we had over claimed, over declared, and another area we had

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and declared. We haven't worked out what to do

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yet, have you? We will get on with the campaign and

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start the campaign and I'm looking forward to the campaign.

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I'm trying to work out of the campaign is going to be legal or not

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because last time it seems it could have been illegal.

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I am sure the campaign will be legal.

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You started the campaign warning about the prospect of, the coalition

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of chaos. Mr Corbyn has ruled out a post-election coalition with the SNP

:11:51.:11:58.

and so have the Lib Dems so who is going to be in this coalition?

:11:59.:12:01.

Vince Cable said he was looking towards a possible coalition trying

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to stop a Conservative government. Is not the leader of the Lib Dems.

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He's an important voice in the Lib Dems. Who will be in it? Let's see

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because of the Conservative Party is not re-elected with a strong

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majority, what will happen? There will be a coalition stopping us

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doing the things we need to do. Who will be in it? It will be a

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coalition of the Labour Party, the SNP and the Liberal party. They have

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ruled it out. I think they would not rule it out if that was the

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situation. Like Theresa May not ruling out an election and then

:12:31.:12:35.

changing her mind? The things the Prime Minister said were very clear,

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once she had served Article 50 there was an opportunity, as we know

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today, there is going to be the start of a new government formed in

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France and in September we have the German elections. So it was quite

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right that we didn't get ourselves boxed into a timetable. That is why

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the Prime Minister took the view that they should be a general

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election to give her full strength of an electoral mandate when it

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comes to those negotiations. What about Mr Corbyn's plan for four new

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bank holidays, good idea? I'm not... If we get Corbyn in No 10 Downing St

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we will have a permanent bank holiday of the United Kingdom. We

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will have fewer bank holidays of most other major nations, most about

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major wealthy nations. What about at least one more? Well, look, he's

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talked about four bank holidays. Today would be a bank holiday and

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next Monday would be a bank holiday and the other week was a bank

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holiday too. I don't think it's very well thought out. It sounded more to

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me something like you get in school mock elections rather than proper

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elections. Your party is the self-styled party of the workers and

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you have no plans to give the workers even one extra bank holiday?

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What we want to do is ensure Britain is a strong economy and building on

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the jobs that we have created since 2010. We were told that by reducing

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public expenditure unemployment in this country would go up,

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unemployment has gone down and the number of jobs have gone up

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substantially. But no more bank holidays? Well, we will make our

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manifesto in due course but I don't think four bank holidays held in

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April, March and November are very attractive to people. When Ed

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Miliband as leader of the Labour Party suggested the government

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should control energy prices by capping them, the Conservatives

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described that as almost Communist and central planning. Do still take

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that view? You'll see what we have to say on energy prices. I didn't

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you about that, I asked you if you take the view... The Prime Minister

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made a speech at the Conservative Spring conference in which she

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outlined her dissatisfaction about people who are kept locked on a

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standard tariff and those are the issues we will address in the next

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few weeks when the manifesto was published.

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Would that be an act of communism? You will need to see what we say

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when we set out the policies. It could be. You could put a Communist

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act into your manifesto? I don't think you'll find a Communist

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manifesto in a Conservative manifesto which will be launched...

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You are planning to control prices? We will address what we think is

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unfairness in the energy market. Mr Jeremy Corbyn was reluctant this

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morning to sanction a drone strike. You heard us talking about it

:15:32.:15:38.

earlier against the leader of Islamic State if our intelligence

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services identified him. What would it achieve? When the Prime Minister

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gets certain advice in the national interests, she has to act been that.

:15:47.:15:51.

We've seen with Theresa May in her time as Home Secretary and Prime

:15:52.:15:54.

Minister, she's not afraid to take those very difficult decisions. What

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we say this morning from Jeremy Corbyn was a his tans, a reluctance.

:15:59.:16:02.

I don't think that serves the country well. What would it achieve

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if we take out the head of Islamic State he's replaced by somebody

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else. It brings their organisation into difficulties. It undermines

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their organisation. It shows we'll take every measure to undo an

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organisation which has organised terrorism in different parts of

:16:24.:16:26.

Europe, the UK. I think it is absolutely right the Prime Minister

:16:27.:16:29.

is prepared to take those kind of measures. Jeremy Corbyn said he

:16:30.:16:34.

wasn't prepared to take that. Because he wasn't sure what it would

:16:35.:16:39.

achieve. The Obama administration launched hundreds of drone strikes

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in various war zones and we in the west are still under attack on a

:16:44.:16:50.

regular basis. Mr Corbyn's basis was what would it achieve? It would

:16:51.:16:55.

achieve a safer position for the UK overall. The war on terrorists. But

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the Westminster attack, Paris has just been attacked again? There's

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been attacks which have been stopped by the intelligence services. We

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must do all we can to support them. The question was about drone

:17:10.:17:13.

strikes. Whether it is drone strikes or other action, we have to be

:17:14.:17:17.

prepared to act. Let's move on to Brexit. It is the major reason the

:17:18.:17:21.

Prime Minister's called the election? Not the only within but

:17:22.:17:26.

the main reason? It is one of the reasons. Now we start the two-year

:17:27.:17:30.

negotiations and then a year afterwards. Also the way in which

:17:31.:17:35.

certain people said they would try to use in the House of Lords or

:17:36.:17:38.

House of Commons to prevent us making progress. I think you'll put

:17:39.:17:45.

in your manifesto, it is the Government's policy, the Brexit

:17:46.:17:51.

negotiating position will be no more freedom of movement. Leave the

:17:52.:17:57.

single market and no longer under the jurisdiction Europe. You expect

:17:58.:18:01.

every Tory MP to fight on that manifesto. What will you do with Ken

:18:02.:18:07.

Clarke and Anna? They will have fought on their manifesto. They will

:18:08.:18:11.

understand the Prime Minister has the authority of the ballot box

:18:12.:18:14.

behind them. Will they fight the election on these positions? I'm

:18:15.:18:19.

sure they'll fight the election supporting the election of a

:18:20.:18:24.

Conservative Government and it's manifesto will quite clearly set

:18:25.:18:28.

out... You know they're against these positions. Ken Clarke has a

:18:29.:18:32.

prod tradition of expressing a certain view. Overall, the party's

:18:33.:18:37.

manifesto, it is not just individuals like Ken Clarke, it is

:18:38.:18:40.

what happens as far as the House of Lords are concerned, people said

:18:41.:18:45.

they'd use the House of Lords to prevent certain measures. You're the

:18:46.:18:49.

party chairman, will it be possible for people like Ken Clarke to fight

:18:50.:18:54.

this election under the Conservative ticket without sub describing to all

:18:55.:18:59.

-- subscribing to all of these Brexit conditions? Ken Clarke will

:19:00.:19:05.

fight as Conservative candidates. That wasn't my question. I know

:19:06.:19:09.

that. Will they be allowed to fight it on their own ticket and not

:19:10.:19:13.

subscribe to what is in your manifesto? The manifesto will be

:19:14.:19:18.

what the Conservative Party fights the General Election on. There will

:19:19.:19:22.

always be cases where people have had different views on different

:19:23.:19:27.

parts of the manifesto. That will be the guiding principles for the

:19:28.:19:33.

party. Philip Hammond says your election promises in 2015, in your

:19:34.:19:39.

manifesto not to raise taxes tied his hands when it came to managing

:19:40.:19:43.

the economy. Do you agree with him? No. The simple fact is we have to do

:19:44.:19:47.

the best things for the economy. We'll set out in our manifesto in a

:19:48.:19:52.

few weeks' time, what the policies will be for the next Parliament. Can

:19:53.:19:57.

I clarify, you don't agree with your Chancellor? What Philip was saying

:19:58.:20:02.

was some of the areas we wants to address as Chancellor, what the

:20:03.:20:07.

party will do, it will set out all the issues we're fighting on. It

:20:08.:20:10.

will set out clearly the choice we have in this country. That's the

:20:11.:20:14.

important thing. Let me put the question to you again. Philip

:20:15.:20:19.

Hammond said this week your election promise in 2015 not to raise taxes

:20:20.:20:23.

had tied his hands when it came to managing the economy. I ask you, do

:20:24.:20:28.

you agree with him? You said no. Philip expressed his view as to what

:20:29.:20:33.

he would like. What I'm saying is in a few weeks' time we'll set the

:20:34.:20:38.

manifesto which will set the policies, agreed with the the

:20:39.:20:42.

Cabinet. He's Chancellor. Doesn't he determine what the economic part of

:20:43.:20:46.

the manifesto is? We'll talk about that in due course. Will you have a

:20:47.:20:52.

lock on the taxes that you locked in 2015 on income tax, VAT, national

:20:53.:20:57.

insurance? That will be decided. You'll see that when we publish the

:20:58.:21:04.

manifesto in a few weeks' time. Will you rule out the possibility taxes

:21:05.:21:08.

may have to rise under a future Conservative Party? Conservative

:21:09.:21:12.

Government. We've taken four million people out of tax. Now, on average,

:21:13.:21:19.

people are paying ?1200 less tax than they were on the same salaries

:21:20.:21:24.

in 2010. I'm very provide of that. I can assure you, the Conservative

:21:25.:21:27.

Party will want to see taxes reduced. It is the Labour Party

:21:28.:21:31.

which will put up taxes. We have the evidence where this he did so.

:21:32.:21:36.

Council tax went up by over 100%. You haven't reduced the tax burden

:21:37.:21:43.

as a percentage of the GDP is now going to reach its highest level

:21:44.:21:48.

since the mid-180s which was when Conservatives were in power. The tax

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burden in this country under your Government is rising? We've more

:21:54.:21:56.

people paying taxes which is something, because we've a growing

:21:57.:22:00.

economy and more people... What about the tax band? You said you

:22:01.:22:05.

reduced the tax burden on your own Government's figures is rising? We

:22:06.:22:10.

have reduced the tax burden. The threshold at which people start

:22:11.:22:15.

paying. These are tax rates not the tax burden. It is rising. The tax

:22:16.:22:21.

rates have been reduced. You said tax burden. Perhaps I misspoke. Tax

:22:22.:22:25.

rates have been reduced. We'll leave it there. No doubt we'll speak again

:22:26.:22:34.

between now and June Is France now about to make it

:22:35.:22:35.

a hat-trick of shocks The prospect terrifies

:22:36.:22:40.

the governing elite in Paris. But they're no less scared

:22:41.:22:43.

in Brussels and Berlin, given what it could mean

:22:44.:22:45.

for the whole EU project, never mind the huge potential impact

:22:46.:22:47.

on our own Brexit negotiations. 11 candidates are contesting

:22:48.:23:07.

the first round of the presidential Only the top two will go forward

:23:08.:23:09.

to the run-off on May 7th. For the first time since General De

:23:10.:23:16.

Gaulle created the fifth Republic in 1958, it's perfectly possible that

:23:17.:23:20.

no candidate from the ruling parties of the centre-left or the

:23:21.:23:24.

centre-right will even make it The election has been dominated by

:23:25.:23:28.

the hard right in the shape of the who's never been elected

:23:29.:23:35.

to anything and only started his own party

:23:36.:23:41.

a few months ago. And the far left in the form

:23:42.:23:44.

of Jean-Luc Melenchon, a former Trotskyite who has surged

:23:45.:23:47.

in the final weeks of the campaign. The only candidate left from the

:23:48.:23:51.

traditional governing parties is the centre-right's

:23:52.:23:54.

Francois Fillon and he's been struggling to stay in

:23:55.:23:57.

the race ever since it was revealed that his Welsh wife was being paid

:23:58.:24:00.

at generous public expense for a job I've just come across

:24:01.:24:05.

this magazine cover and it kind of sums up the mood

:24:06.:24:20.

of the French people. It's got the five main candidates

:24:21.:24:23.

for President here but it calls them the biggest liar, the biggest cheat,

:24:24.:24:26.

the biggest traitor, the most paranoid, the biggest demagogue,

:24:27.:24:29.

and it says they are the winners The four leading candidates,

:24:30.:24:32.

Le Pen, Melenchon, Macron and Fillon, or in with a chance

:24:33.:24:42.

of making it to the second round. Only a couple of points separates

:24:43.:24:46.

them in the polls, Frankly, no one has a clue what's

:24:47.:24:48.

going to happen. Of the four, there is a feeling that

:24:49.:24:54.

two of them may be President But the two of them may not find

:24:55.:24:59.

themselves in the second round. Somebody said to me that the man or

:25:00.:25:12.

woman on the Paris Metro has as much a chance of knowing

:25:13.:25:26.

who will win as the greatest experts Because the more expert you are

:25:27.:25:30.

the more you may be wrong. The country has largely

:25:31.:25:37.

stagnated for over a decade. One in ten are unemployed,

:25:38.:25:42.

one in four if you are unlucky Like Britain in the '70s there is

:25:43.:25:45.

the pervasive stench There are three keywords that come

:25:46.:25:49.

to mind. Anger, anger at the elite, and in

:25:50.:25:56.

particular the political elite. And an element of

:25:57.:26:02.

nostalgia for the past. These three words were decisive

:26:03.:26:08.

in the Brexit referendum. They are decisive in

:26:09.:26:12.

the French election. Identity and security has been

:26:13.:26:24.

as important in this election France is a proud nation, it worries

:26:25.:26:27.

about its future in Europe It seems bereft of ideas about how

:26:28.:26:34.

to deal with its largely Muslim migrant population, huge chunks of

:26:35.:26:39.

which are increasingly divorced It is quite simply exhausted by

:26:40.:26:43.

the never-ending Islamist terrorist attacks, the latest only days before

:26:44.:26:53.

voting in the iconic heart of this If Fillon or Macron emerge

:26:54.:26:57.

victorious then there will be continuity of sorts, though Fillon

:26:58.:27:08.

will struggle to implement his Thatcherite agenda and Macron will

:27:09.:27:11.

not be able to count on the support of the French parliament, the

:27:12.:27:15.

National Assembly, for his reforms. But if it's Le Pen or Jean-Luc

:27:16.:27:19.

Melenchon then all bets are off. Both are hardline French

:27:20.:27:25.

nationalists, anti the euro, anti the European Union, anti-fiscal

:27:26.:27:27.

discipline, anti the market, Either in the Elysee Palace

:27:28.:27:31.

would represent an existential Brexit would simply become

:27:32.:27:40.

a sideshow, the negotiations could just peter out as Brussels

:27:41.:27:49.

and Berlin had bigger fish to fry. We're joined now from

:27:50.:27:53.

Paris by the journalist 8th Welcome to the programme.

:27:54.:28:04.

Overshadowing the voting today was yet another appalling terrorist

:28:05.:28:09.

attack in Paris on Thursday night. Do we have any indications of how

:28:10.:28:15.

that's playing into the election? That initially people thought this

:28:16.:28:19.

has been almost foiled in that the police were there as a ramp up. One

:28:20.:28:25.

policeman was killed. But the terrorist did not spray the crowd

:28:26.:28:29.

with bullets. It was seen as not having much of an effect on the

:28:30.:28:34.

election. This has changed. We now know the policeman who was killed, a

:28:35.:28:40.

young man about to the promoted, he was at the Bataclan the night of the

:28:41.:28:46.

terror attack. He was a fighter for LGBT rights. The fact he was

:28:47.:28:52.

promoted, happy within his job, he has this fresh face. Sudden, he's

:28:53.:28:59.

one of us. It took perhaps 48 hours for the French to process this. But

:29:00.:29:05.

now they're angry and this may actually change the game, at least

:29:06.:29:10.

at the margins. To whose advantage? I would say the two who might

:29:11.:29:17.

benefit from this are Marine Le Pen, she's been absolutely

:29:18.:29:21.

anti-immigration, anti-anything. And made no bones about it as she

:29:22.:29:26.

immediately made rather strange announcement in which she'd said if

:29:27.:29:30.

she'd been president none of the terror attacks which happened in

:29:31.:29:34.

France would have happened. Francois Fillon has written a book two years

:29:35.:29:42.

ago called Combating Islamic Terrorism he's has an organised plan

:29:43.:29:46.

in his manifesto. Unlike Emmanuel Macron who stumbled when he was

:29:47.:29:50.

asked the evening this happened what he thought, he said, I can't dream

:29:51.:29:54.

up an anti-terror programme overnight. The question, of course,

:29:55.:29:58.

that arrows was this is not the sort of thing that's just happened

:29:59.:30:02.

overnight. It's been unfortunately the fate of France for many years.

:30:03.:30:07.

Let me ask you this finally, what ever the outcome on May 7th in the

:30:08.:30:12.

second round, who ever wins, would it be fair to say French politics

:30:13.:30:18.

will never be the same again? Yes. Absolutely it's a very strange

:30:19.:30:22.

thing. People have no become really excited about this. You cannot go

:30:23.:30:26.

anywhere without people discussing heatedly this election. The anger

:30:27.:30:31.

that was described is very accurate. Very true. There was this feeling as

:30:32.:30:37.

for the Brexit voters and the Trump voters, vast parts of the people

:30:38.:30:41.

were being talked down to by people who despised them. This has to

:30:42.:30:48.

change. If it doesn't change, we cannot predict what the future will

:30:49.:30:53.

be. We'll know the results or at least the ex-the Poll London time

:30:54.:30:58.

tonight at 8.00pm. Thank for joining us from the glorious heart of your

:30:59.:31:00.

city. Now, the Green Party currently has

:31:01.:31:03.

one MP and they'll be contesting many more seats in June

:31:04.:31:07.

as well as hoping to increase their presence on councils in

:31:08.:31:09.

the local elections on 4th May. Launching their campaign

:31:10.:31:12.

on Thursday, co-leader Caroline Lucas made

:31:13.:31:13.

a pitch to younger voters. When it comes to young

:31:14.:31:16.

people they've been But one crucial way they've been

:31:17.:31:17.

betrayed is by what this generation and this government and the previous

:31:18.:31:23.

ones have been doing when it comes We know we had the hottest year

:31:24.:31:26.

on record last year, you know, you almost think what else does

:31:27.:31:30.

the environment need to be doing All the signs are there

:31:31.:31:33.

and it is young people who are going to be bearing

:31:34.:31:37.

the brunt of a wrecked environment and that's why it's so important

:31:38.:31:40.

that when we come to making that pitch to, yes, the country at large

:31:41.:31:43.

but to young people in particular, I think climate change,

:31:44.:31:46.

the environment, looking after our precious resources,

:31:47.:31:48.

has to be up there. And I'm joined now by the Green

:31:49.:31:53.

MEP, Molly Scott Cato. Welcome back to the programme.

:31:54.:32:07.

Promised to scrap university tuition fees, increase NHS funding, rollback

:32:08.:32:11.

cuts to local councils spending, how much would that cost and how would

:32:12.:32:14.

you pay for it? Like the other parties we haven't got a costed

:32:15.:32:18.

manifesto yet, it's only a few days since the election was announced so

:32:19.:32:21.

I will come back and explain the figures. You don't know? Like every

:32:22.:32:25.

party we have not produced accosted manifesto yet, we produced one last

:32:26.:32:31.

time but public spending figures have changed so we're not in a

:32:32.:32:34.

position to do that but we will be in a week or so. What taxes would

:32:35.:32:39.

you like to consider raising? We would consider having higher taxes

:32:40.:32:42.

for the better off in society. I think we need to increase the amount

:32:43.:32:48.

of tax wealthier people pay. How do you define better off? I'm not

:32:49.:32:51.

entirely clear what the precise number would be but I think 100,000

:32:52.:32:57.

people would pay a bit more, 150,000 quite considerably more but the real

:32:58.:33:01.

focus needs to be on companies avoiding paying taxes. I work on

:33:02.:33:04.

that a lot in my role in the European Parliament, we see an

:33:05.:33:07.

enormous amount of tax avoidance by companies moving profits from

:33:08.:33:10.

country to country and we need European corporation to make that

:33:11.:33:14.

successful. It has not made much difference yet. We have made lots of

:33:15.:33:20.

changes. Google turned over $1 billion and only paid 25 million in

:33:21.:33:23.

taxes last year. There was a significant fine introduced by the

:33:24.:33:28.

competition commission on Apple and in the case of Google we must change

:33:29.:33:32.

the laws so that people cannot move profits from country to country.

:33:33.:33:37.

Everybody wants to do it. But you couldn't face a big spending

:33:38.:33:41.

programme on the ability to do that. You'd have to increase other taxes.

:33:42.:33:45.

If you look at the cost of free student tuition, tuition fees and

:33:46.:33:48.

also maintenance grants to students, that would come in at about 10

:33:49.:33:51.

billion a year. One way of paying for that would be to remove the

:33:52.:33:55.

upper threshold on National Insurance, bringing in 20 billion a

:33:56.:33:58.

year, that's the order of magnitude we are talking about. It is not

:33:59.:34:03.

vast, and some of the proposals we have... That would be an increase on

:34:04.:34:07.

the better of tax? National Insurance on people earning...

:34:08.:34:13.

People earning above 42,000. You would have another 10% tax above

:34:14.:34:18.

42,000? I can't remember exactly how much the National Insurance rate

:34:19.:34:23.

changes by. But in government figures it would be 28 billion

:34:24.:34:28.

raised. I think it is up to 45, a bit more you pay a marginal rate of

:34:29.:34:31.

40%, you would have them pay a marginal rate of over 50%? We would

:34:32.:34:36.

put the National Insurance rate on higher incomes the same as it is on

:34:37.:34:40.

lower incomes. If you are a school head of an English department on 50,

:34:41.:34:44.

60,000 a year you would face a marginal rate under U of over 50%?

:34:45.:34:50.

It is not useful to do this as a mental maths exercise but if you

:34:51.:34:54.

look at other proposals would could have a landlord licensing system,

:34:55.:34:59.

longer term leases on properties, so young people particularly, but also

:35:00.:35:01.

older people who rent, could have more security which needn't cost

:35:02.:35:05.

anything. We could insist on landlords paying for that. The

:35:06.:35:09.

mental arithmetic seems clear but we will come back to that. How is the

:35:10.:35:13.

Progressive Alliance coming? It is going well, I have heard of a lot of

:35:14.:35:18.

interest at local level. Winterset this in contest, context, lots of

:35:19.:35:23.

progressives are concerned about the crisis in public services, prisons,

:35:24.:35:27.

social care system, and also about the Tories' hard extreme Brexit they

:35:28.:35:31.

are threatening. You want the left to come together? Theresa May has

:35:32.:35:36.

given us opportunity, she has taken a risk because she has problems with

:35:37.:35:38.

backbenchers, she doesn't think she can get through Brexit with a small

:35:39.:35:42.

majority so there is an opportunity and we are saying progressives must

:35:43.:35:46.

come together to corporate, Conservatives are effective at using

:35:47.:35:48.

the first-past-the-post system and we have to become effective as well.

:35:49.:35:54.

Do you accept this Progressive Alliance cannot become the

:35:55.:35:56.

government and Mr Corbyn is the Prime Minister? How could it happen

:35:57.:36:01.

otherwise? I think that is a secondary question. For me the

:36:02.:36:04.

primary question is who do people choose to vote for? Aluminium

:36:05.:36:08.

government afterwards comes after the election. In most countries that

:36:09.:36:12.

is the case. I understand that but we have the system we have and you

:36:13.:36:15.

accept this Progressive Alliance cannot be in power and thus mystical

:36:16.:36:19.

Burmese Prime Minister? Personally I think Mr Corbyn is less of a threat

:36:20.:36:22.

to the country than Theresa May, she has shown herself to be an

:36:23.:36:25.

authoritarian leader and she has said she doesn't want to have

:36:26.:36:31.

dissidents, which I would say is reasonable opposition, and what we

:36:32.:36:33.

are suggesting at the moment is there is a way of avoiding that very

:36:34.:36:36.

hard Brexit and damage to public services. You'd be happy to pay the

:36:37.:36:39.

price of having Mr Corbyn as Prime Minister? I do not see that as a

:36:40.:36:44.

price. People have the choice of Jeremy Corbyn or Theresa May as

:36:45.:36:47.

Prime Minister, that's the system that works. You would prefer Mr

:36:48.:36:52.

Corbyn? I would but votes are translated into seats and the

:36:53.:36:54.

Progressive Alliance is a step towards that.

:36:55.:36:56.

It's just gone 3:50pm, you're watching the Sunday Politics.

:36:57.:36:58.

We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, Wales

:36:59.:37:00.

and Northern Ireland who leave us now.

:37:01.:37:02.

Coming up here in 20 minutes, the Week Ahead.

:37:03.:37:11.

Hello and welcome to Sunday Politics East.

:37:12.:37:16.

Later in the programme, a controversial MP

:37:17.:37:19.

decides to call it a day, declaring - job done over Brexit.

:37:20.:37:21.

And with the local elections two weeks away, choppy waters ahead for

:37:22.:37:24.

But first this week, the shock announcement of a

:37:25.:37:32.

We will go to the polls on June the 8th,

:37:33.:37:39.

with the Prime Minister saying she wants unity at Westminster.

:37:40.:37:41.

And already we are seeing repercussions

:37:42.:37:42.

The Northampton South MP David McIntosh is facing deselection

:37:43.:37:46.

Meanwhile, in Essex Douglas Carswell, the MP for Clacton,

:37:47.:37:51.

announced he will not be standing this time around.

:37:52.:37:54.

One of the leaders in the campaign for a referendum, he

:37:55.:37:58.

was first elected as a Conservative in 2005, beating Labour to become

:37:59.:38:01.

Four years later he led the campaign to

:38:02.:38:08.

oust the Speaker Michael Martin in the wake of the MPs' expenses

:38:09.:38:11.

And then, in 2014, his shock defection to Ukip and

:38:12.:38:16.

He defended the seat with a reduced majority

:38:17.:38:21.

His relationship with the former leader of Ukip Nigel Farage

:38:22.:38:25.

was difficult, and last month he resigned from the party, pledging

:38:26.:38:27.

Now, he says, it's job done and he is

:38:28.:38:32.

Well, a few minutes ago I spoke to Mr Carswell

:38:33.:38:39.

in London, and asked if he was sure he had made the right

:38:40.:38:42.

It's clearly the right decision for me, I think

:38:43.:38:47.

I think it's the right decision for Brexit.

:38:48.:38:55.

I went into politics to do a job and I feel I've done it.

:38:56.:38:59.

We are hearing now Aaron Banks may be

:39:00.:39:01.

going to stand, either as a Ukip candidate

:39:02.:39:03.

You know, Aaron is of very little concern to me and I think

:39:04.:39:12.

probably of less concern to the folk in Clacton.

:39:13.:39:14.

It is good that in a democracy people can put their name

:39:15.:39:18.

on the ballot, but I suspect there may even be a couple of Monster

:39:19.:39:21.

I think we need to focus on the key issue.

:39:22.:39:24.

do you want to have Jeremy Corbyn or Theresa May in Number Ten?

:39:25.:39:29.

And I think that's really what's going

:39:30.:39:31.

As far as you're concerned, you had a

:39:32.:39:40.

difficult relationship with Mr Cameron, you had a difficult

:39:41.:39:42.

Which one of those that you get on better with, do you think?

:39:43.:39:46.

I actually like David Cameron as a person,

:39:47.:39:48.

I think he is a thoroughly decent, reasonable person.

:39:49.:39:53.

But the thing about party leaders is actually they quite often need

:39:54.:39:56.

Conservative Party a little bit of a nudge to promise us that

:39:57.:40:07.

referendum, and I think I had to give Nigel a

:40:08.:40:09.

bit of a nudge to stop him dominating the referendum

:40:10.:40:12.

But, you know, I've occasionally fallen out with one or

:40:13.:40:16.

two colleagues in my time in Parliament but I don't think I've

:40:17.:40:19.

really fallen out with the folk in Clacton.

:40:20.:40:21.

I've done everything I've done in Westminster with one eye on

:40:22.:40:33.

what is going on in my part of Essex and asking would

:40:34.:40:36.

When he became an MP for the area, Jaywick Was in the bottom ten

:40:37.:40:41.

of the most deprived places in the country.

:40:42.:40:43.

As you leave being the MP it is the bottom.

:40:44.:40:46.

So some places you haven't managed to achieve what you

:40:47.:40:48.

If I may say, I think there has been progress

:40:49.:40:52.

in Jaywick, and that the reason I say that is because we got to the

:40:53.:40:55.

bottom of what is the problem of Jaywick's, if you call it,

:40:56.:41:01.

dilapidation, and that is there have been blanket

:41:02.:41:03.

bans on any new developments in Jaywick for the past 40 years and

:41:04.:41:06.

working with the council and a meeting I organised in the House

:41:07.:41:09.

of Commons with the Environment Agency, we've removed many of those

:41:10.:41:12.

restrictions and we are now starting to see private investment and

:41:13.:41:15.

And I say that, you know, whatever party

:41:16.:41:18.

you belong to, if you look at what the District Council has done as a

:41:19.:41:21.

whole, working together, they have actually made sure

:41:22.:41:23.

we are going to start seeing new development and

:41:24.:41:25.

improvement in Jaywick and West Clacton, and I think

:41:26.:41:28.

Far from being a lack of action, I think we

:41:29.:41:31.

It is going to take time to filter through but we are making progress.

:41:32.:41:41.

There has been a lot said since he decided

:41:42.:41:43.

to stand down about the

:41:44.:41:48.

meeting you had with Mr Reckless at Tate Britain about infiltrating

:41:49.:41:51.

Ukip and maybe changing the policies of

:41:52.:41:53.

Can you tell us a bit more about that meeting?

:41:54.:42:00.

Actually, when I joined Ukip I called a press

:42:01.:42:04.

conference on August the 28th 2014 in the centre of London and I very

:42:05.:42:07.

clearly said in order for Euroscepticism to be able to gain

:42:08.:42:10.

popular support, whether as Ukip or as Provoked Leave, Euroscepticism

:42:11.:42:12.

needed to be optimistic, it needed to be different from that Britain

:42:13.:42:17.

gone to the dogs, angry nativism that is so often defined parts of my

:42:18.:42:21.

And I was quite clear and open about that agenda to

:42:22.:42:35.

try to make Euroscepticism more broadly based and I would say

:42:36.:42:37.

almost exactly a year ago by creating a broad coalition, so

:42:38.:42:42.

Euroscepticism was seen as a progressive, positive,

:42:43.:42:43.

internationalist thing to do, I think that decision has actually

:42:44.:42:46.

So there was nothing cloak and dagger about that

:42:47.:42:49.

I always meet colleagues and talk to colleagues.

:42:50.:43:06.

I happen to meet them in the House of Commons

:43:07.:43:08.

and if I want a bit of

:43:09.:43:10.

privacy in Tate Britain down the river.

:43:11.:43:11.

The reality is I was quite frank and open.

:43:12.:43:14.

If you look at many of the blogs I've wrote before and

:43:15.:43:16.

after I joined Ukip I again and again made this point, angry

:43:17.:43:19.

nativism doesn't win elections and it certainly doesn't win

:43:20.:43:22.

And I think by being the only successful Ukip candidate

:43:23.:43:25.

at the last general election I emphatically demonstrated angry

:43:26.:43:27.

nativism cannot win you a parliamentary constituency.

:43:28.:43:29.

When you decided to resign from Ukip did you

:43:30.:43:39.

think you had three years to maybe make your peace

:43:40.:43:41.

with the Conservative Party and

:43:42.:43:42.

hopefully be the candidate at the next general election?

:43:43.:43:45.

The day after the referendum on June the

:43:46.:43:48.

24th last year I was very close to announcing I was going to be

:43:49.:43:51.

standing down from politics completely, several people persuaded

:43:52.:43:53.

me to hang in there because there was a possibility MPs in the Commons

:43:54.:43:56.

would still try and unpack the deal, and we saw the Gina Miller attempt

:43:57.:44:00.

I then made it clear to myself and the various

:44:01.:44:09.

people around me I was going to leave Ukip once Article 50 was

:44:10.:44:12.

triggered, I was then going to announce I

:44:13.:44:14.

was leaving politics and

:44:15.:44:15.

April 2019, the month when we finally leave the EU.

:44:16.:44:17.

All that Theresa May's snap general election

:44:18.:44:19.

announcement has done is bring forward a 24

:44:20.:44:21.

months the decision I

:44:22.:44:22.

How will you look back on your career,

:44:23.:44:25.

personally, in Parliament and how do you think history will judge you?

:44:26.:44:28.

I leave it to others to speculate about history.

:44:29.:44:31.

Ultimately, I'm just a footnote, but I can't think any

:44:32.:44:34.

higher privilege I could have ever had than to have been able to call

:44:35.:44:38.

myself a member of Parliament for Clacton.

:44:39.:44:39.

It has been a tremendous honour and it has been wonderful and

:44:40.:44:45.

to those who voted for me thank you, to those who didn't vote for me then

:44:46.:44:49.

I hope you will choose wisely in a few weeks' time.

:44:50.:44:55.

Life has got too many rich opportunities in it to

:44:56.:45:00.

I went into politics because I passionately believe that we

:45:01.:45:04.

I feel I have done that job, I've stood for election five times, I've

:45:05.:45:09.

won four times, the only person, incidentally, I ever lost an

:45:10.:45:11.

But it has been a tremendous exhilarating

:45:12.:45:16.

I've loved it and I can walk out saying I did what I

:45:17.:45:22.

Joining me today, from Norwich from the Green Party

:45:23.:45:28.

Here in the studio we have Dave Hodgson, the elected Liberal

:45:29.:45:35.

from Cambridgeshire who has recently been awarded an MBE.

:45:36.:45:44.

He described your party as going to the dogs

:45:45.:45:47.

Well, do you know, before I answer that question, and I will,

:45:48.:45:52.

I think he has been one of the best MPs

:45:53.:45:56.

in the House of Commons all the

:45:57.:45:57.

way through, no matter what party he has been

:45:58.:46:00.

involved in, Ukip, the

:46:01.:46:01.

Conservatives, or sat as an independent,

:46:02.:46:04.

he is an MP who truly believes in because he was in

:46:05.:46:06.

Conservatives, or sat as an independent, he is an MP

:46:07.:46:22.

who truly believes the cauysecause he was in

:46:23.:46:24.

You're party spent a lot of money getting him into

:46:25.:46:27.

Parliament, now he has walked away from it.

:46:28.:46:29.

He was in Parliament, there are very few MPs who crossed the

:46:30.:46:32.

floor and actually hold a by-election and put their career

:46:33.:46:34.

at stake and we in Ukip have that as a policy base.

:46:35.:46:37.

Douglas honoured that and not many MPs would have.

:46:38.:46:42.

So there is a man whose maiden speech

:46:43.:46:43.

12 years ago was all about coming out of the EU and I think he

:46:44.:46:47.

genuinely believe with Ukip's help he has achieved that.

:46:48.:46:49.

The problem is I think he is premature, and I hope

:46:50.:46:52.

I am wrong, but I think it is premature, in that what we have

:46:53.:46:55.

actually been left with is a pro-remain Parliament, pro-remain

:46:56.:46:57.

Conservative Party and a pro-remain Prime Minister trying to negotiate

:46:58.:47:00.

against some very sophisticated people

:47:01.:47:01.

in the EU who are not on the

:47:02.:47:03.

And so here is a great opportunity with the general

:47:04.:47:06.

election to get some people who really believe in Brexit

:47:07.:47:09.

Rupert, we will bring you in this here.

:47:10.:47:12.

It made me smile when he said that, Stuart, because I think

:47:13.:47:19.

with May, we will be heading for anything but that.

:47:20.:47:22.

I just want to go back to Ukip for a second and

:47:23.:47:25.

one thing that is very important to get clear,

:47:26.:47:27.

when Brexit is all done and dusted people will turn back to

:47:28.:47:30.

the great issue of our time, dangerous climate change, and we

:47:31.:47:32.

must never forget Ukip are the party of climate change denial.

:47:33.:47:35.

Climate change denial is vile and despicable and it

:47:36.:47:38.

amounts to kicking our children in the teeth

:47:39.:47:40.

and that is the kind of

:47:41.:47:41.

thing I hope people will be thinking about this election.

:47:42.:47:44.

What we need to do is think truly long-term.

:47:45.:47:46.

When Brexit is done and dusted we will

:47:47.:47:48.

have to go back to the issues that will be determinative.

:47:49.:47:51.

What kind of planet are we bequeathing to our

:47:52.:47:53.

That is the long-term thinking we really

:47:54.:47:56.

Vile, I think was the word, Peter Reeve.

:47:57.:48:00.

Well, I love Rupert to bits but he would shut down every

:48:01.:48:05.

business, take every car off the road, to be

:48:06.:48:07.

shut down transport and

:48:08.:48:08.

he would stop people living their lives.

:48:09.:48:15.

I'm going to have to let him answer that one.

:48:16.:48:17.

Would you shut down business and take every car off

:48:18.:48:20.

Well, it is very funny that Peter should hone in there on

:48:21.:48:24.

transport policy which is one of our great areas of strength, and both

:48:25.:48:27.

in the local and general election one of the reasons

:48:28.:48:30.

So we can have a massive investment in

:48:31.:48:36.

public transport which is one of our signature

:48:37.:48:38.

policies and actually an

:48:39.:48:39.

Absolutely, but it seems like interfering in a family feud with

:48:40.:48:45.

Ukip, you are never quite sure whether they are a member, a past

:48:46.:48:50.

member or a future member, as people come and go under

:48:51.:48:56.

arguments with whoever the current leader is or with

:48:57.:48:58.

I think Rupert is a right that climate change is a real issue

:48:59.:49:02.

and you can't have climate change deniers because it is our children

:49:03.:49:05.

and our grandchildrens' future and it is real.

:49:06.:49:07.

But we must say you were part of the coalition, your party,

:49:08.:49:10.

No, we were a small part of the coalition and coalitions are

:49:11.:49:18.

organisations where if you are a small part

:49:19.:49:19.

you have to do things you

:49:20.:49:21.

don't want to do and you have seen a post 2015 the difference we did

:49:22.:49:24.

make them the coalition by stopping some

:49:25.:49:26.

of the excesses of cuts that are happening with the Conservative

:49:27.:49:29.

So are you ready for a general election?

:49:30.:49:32.

I think I screamed when I heard it at 11am on Tuesday

:49:33.:49:35.

We have got most of our candidates selected, I

:49:36.:49:40.

think we are well on the way to getting that but it will be hard.

:49:41.:49:47.

Just before we move on let me ask you about Aaron Banks.

:49:48.:49:50.

Would you welcome him and being your Ukip candidate in

:49:51.:49:52.

One of the things about Ukip is it is entirely grassroots led and

:49:53.:50:01.

community led so and the people who decide

:50:02.:50:03.

local members in local constituencies.

:50:04.:50:06.

Unlike the Conservatives and Labour, who seem

:50:07.:50:07.

to be forcing candidates than people's throats, Ukip believes in

:50:08.:50:10.

So you can expect a lot of election leaflets through your door

:50:11.:50:16.

Before that, though, the county council

:50:17.:50:19.

With elections everywhere except Bedfordshire where there are no

:50:20.:50:22.

elections in the three unitary authorities.

:50:23.:50:24.

Our county councils face a number of challenges and

:50:25.:50:26.

They have already cut spending dramatically.

:50:27.:50:30.

In the four years after 2010 spending by our county

:50:31.:50:36.

how they will navigate the problems ahead.

:50:37.:50:47.

We know what the buildings look like, we know the people inside

:50:48.:50:53.

hold lots of meetings and they quite often seem to argue with each other.

:50:54.:50:56.

But it's all matters because whether you like it or not

:50:57.:51:03.

county councils play an important part in our lives.

:51:04.:51:06.

Whether it is looking after vulnerable older people,

:51:07.:51:08.

safeguarding children, libraries, 70% of roads

:51:09.:51:10.

across the country are

:51:11.:51:15.

maintained by county councils, so the web and weft of everyday

:51:16.:51:17.

life, the stuff we all use every day, that

:51:18.:51:19.

is not decided by MPs in Westminster that is delivered by county

:51:20.:51:22.

councils, and decisions about that are made by county councils.

:51:23.:51:25.

Jim ran Northamptonshire County Council for

:51:26.:51:29.

Lots of challenges, and the really important

:51:30.:51:37.

thing is making sure you

:51:38.:51:38.

get good quality services at good value for money.

:51:39.:51:41.

But nowadays the general consensus is running a

:51:42.:51:44.

county council is more like a visit to the Lee Valley Whitewater Centre

:51:45.:51:47.

in Hertfordshire - rough, unpredictable and always the chance

:51:48.:51:49.

It wasn't so pressurised as it is today, it was

:51:50.:51:58.

possible to make decisions more confidently.

:51:59.:52:02.

Nowadays you really have to go back to the budget book

:52:03.:52:04.

and make sure the funds are there and there

:52:05.:52:07.

isn't a different way of

:52:08.:52:08.

That sometimes does restrict initiative.

:52:09.:52:13.

There is an uncertain funding situation, we are

:52:14.:52:15.

seeing demand go through the roof at the very same time we see

:52:16.:52:19.

Since George Osborne's first austerity budget the Government's

:52:20.:52:27.

grants to county councils has been cut by more than 40%.

:52:28.:52:31.

Authorities have had to become more efficient

:52:32.:52:36.

and that meant hitting the so-called back-office.

:52:37.:52:37.

Many, like Suffolk County Council, now share their

:52:38.:52:39.

premises with district councils, and thousands of staff have been

:52:40.:52:41.

made redundant or outsourced to other

:52:42.:52:43.

fewer posts at the county council, 1600 fewer in Essex, 1000 in

:52:44.:52:57.

Northamptonshire, almost 600 fewer in Cambridgeshire.

:52:58.:52:58.

That puts pressure on the staff that remain.

:52:59.:53:02.

For example, most notably in children's services.

:53:03.:53:07.

Social workers now deliver even more admin support

:53:08.:53:09.

than they did because their business support and admin has been

:53:10.:53:12.

cut, which has a significant implication on service delivery and

:53:13.:53:14.

is something that is often overlooked.

:53:15.:53:18.

There has also been big changes to the services

:53:19.:53:20.

Youth services were an early casualty, elderly care has been

:53:21.:53:27.

outsourced in most places, but funding hasn't always followed.

:53:28.:53:29.

In Suffolk, the libraries are now run

:53:30.:53:31.

While in Norfolk subsidies for public transport and

:53:32.:53:34.

crossing patrols regularly come under the spotlight.

:53:35.:53:38.

Funding pressures are likely to get even

:53:39.:53:42.

worse if the Government grants stops and councils have to rely on local

:53:43.:53:45.

We've seen savings on all those key services and the

:53:46.:53:49.

big question now is whether there is anything left to take out of the

:53:50.:53:53.

system or whether we are going to have to start looking at stopping

:53:54.:53:56.

In every county in this region the same issue

:53:57.:54:03.

confronts the voters in these elections -

:54:04.:54:07.

which party is best placed to manage an ever declining

:54:08.:54:09.

budget and still provide the important services people rely on.

:54:10.:54:19.

In this region the Conservatives have nearly always

:54:20.:54:21.

county council but in the last four years the Givings Ukip and Lib Dems

:54:22.:54:25.

Blocking budget proposals, raising uncomfortable

:54:26.:54:28.

issues, changing the

:54:29.:54:29.

way council business is conducted in Cambridgeshire and Norfolk.

:54:30.:54:37.

as it gets even harder to navigate the choppy waters of council

:54:38.:54:41.

Rupert Reid in Norwich, how would you balance

:54:42.:54:44.

Well, our approach as Greens is firstly

:54:45.:54:52.

lot more funding from central Government for local Government.

:54:53.:54:56.

Hang on, you are not going to get that so how are you

:54:57.:55:02.

Well, it depends what happens at the

:55:03.:55:05.

You cannot treat these two elections separately.

:55:06.:55:09.

I hope what people do at the general election is

:55:10.:55:12.

a vote for parties that will actually increase funding to local

:55:13.:55:14.

Government which means above all, the Greens, because we believe

:55:15.:55:17.

passionately in decentralisation, a real

:55:18.:55:18.

decentralisation, to local Government.

:55:19.:55:19.

But, actually, it looks as though the Conservatives have a

:55:20.:55:24.

big lead and would not change the funding

:55:25.:55:26.

formula, so how would you

:55:27.:55:28.

The first thing we would do if we were placed in that very

:55:29.:55:35.

difficult situation is stop funding things which are a complete

:55:36.:55:38.

Such as the Northern distributor roads

:55:39.:55:44.

and other road-building programme here in Norfolk which all parties

:55:45.:55:46.

except for the Greens have supported.

:55:47.:55:48.

Hundreds of millions of pounds being wasted there.

:55:49.:55:50.

Let's take that money and put it into real

:55:51.:55:52.

proper council services that people need.

:55:53.:55:53.

Actually, the Lib Dems have done quite well in by-elections

:55:54.:55:56.

Have you been forgiven, do you think, for the coalition?

:55:57.:55:59.

You are quite right, we have done very

:56:00.:56:01.

I think 33 net gains in the past year.

:56:02.:56:05.

Taking seats from all parties in areas that were

:56:06.:56:07.

And we hope to do well in the county council elections

:56:08.:56:11.

So why is it do you think people are coming back to you?

:56:12.:56:16.

I think it is hard work on the ground.

:56:17.:56:18.

I think we are showing we want to deliver services.

:56:19.:56:23.

I run a council where we have had to balance the

:56:24.:56:26.

books for the past eight years, it is getting more and more

:56:27.:56:29.

difficult but we show we can deliver services.

:56:30.:56:31.

In Bedford we are doing that despite the cuts.

:56:32.:56:33.

But as Rupert said, and as you have said, it is getting more

:56:34.:56:37.

and more difficult as we get more and more cuts and there will have to

:56:38.:56:41.

Ukip have had some interesting developments at council level.

:56:42.:56:45.

You have had people resign, people say

:56:46.:56:46.

Where do you stand going into the local elections?

:56:47.:56:50.

It is interesting the media tend to focus on that.

:56:51.:56:54.

That happens to all parties and local Government and it is just

:56:55.:56:58.

when it happens to Ukip it is of the

:56:59.:57:05.

national press, when it happens to Labour, the Lib Dems,

:57:06.:57:08.

We stand by our councillors, 147 of them are facing

:57:09.:57:14.

You can't blame the media for doing all that.

:57:15.:57:21.

A parish councillor puts a letter in the newspaper as a

:57:22.:57:25.

Conservative parish council and no one bats an eyelid.

:57:26.:57:28.

He changes to Ukip puts in the same letter and it is on

:57:29.:57:32.

the Sunday Politics show with ministers talking about it.

:57:33.:57:35.

That is how hard Ukip have been battered.

:57:36.:57:37.

To answer your question, the reality is

:57:38.:57:38.

we stand by the record of our councillors.

:57:39.:57:40.

These are people who have worked very hard in the local

:57:41.:57:43.

community and I think we will see in the election results

:57:44.:57:47.

all the national picture and the media stories aside,

:57:48.:57:49.

in the election results people will judge is based on the hard

:57:50.:57:52.

Our guys are in running those libraries voluntarily.

:57:53.:57:56.

People like me clean the toilets in our local town.

:57:57.:57:58.

The point about what Green councillors have done is they

:57:59.:58:02.

have done very good stuff, whether in power or out of power.

:58:03.:58:05.

Including massive action on tackling air

:58:06.:58:06.

pollution, one of the great scourges of our time,

:58:07.:58:11.

and if people vote Green at these elections they will

:58:12.:58:13.

know that is the best way of tackling, for example, air

:58:14.:58:16.

Thank you very much for being with us today.

:58:17.:58:19.

We are going to finish today with our round-up of a

:58:20.:58:23.

very busy week in politics in 60 Seconds.

:58:24.:58:32.

It is all change at cereal giant Weetabix in Northamptonshire,

:58:33.:58:34.

where the breakfast manufacturer has been sold

:58:35.:58:37.

Local farmers supply wheat for 3 million biscuits a year.

:58:38.:58:45.

We will continue to make, market and sell our brands here and

:58:46.:58:48.

Northamptonshire and we will also continue to source our wheat from

:58:49.:58:51.

Children here face a fight for school places after

:58:52.:58:58.

being turned down at the local primary despite living just 500

:58:59.:59:02.

Four-year-old Oscar faces a three mile round trip in September.

:59:03.:59:06.

A bit more planning and a bit more foresight

:59:07.:59:12.

could have prevented this

:59:13.:59:13.

Instead it is having a huge impact on the families

:59:14.:59:16.

Over in Holland, qualified nurses visit elderly patients at

:59:17.:59:20.

home, cutting emergency hospital admissions by one third.

:59:21.:59:23.

Now nurses in West Suffolk are trying the same

:59:24.:59:27.

Back home in the House of Commons one MP and didn't exactly pick up

:59:28.:59:35.

his hometown with this invitation to the PM.

:59:36.:59:39.

Will the Prime Minister come to Kettering,

:59:40.:59:40.

I'd be happy to visit the Kettering constituency in the

:59:41.:59:46.

In fact I expect in the next few weeks I

:59:47.:59:50.

will be visiting quite a few constituencies.

:59:51.:59:55.

We are back next week at the usual time

:59:56.:00:02.

on issues like the NHS. Run out of time. Andrew, back to you.

:00:03.:00:15.

Now, Ukip have made their first significant policy announcement

:00:16.:00:22.

of the election campaign today with a call for a ban on wearing

:00:23.:00:27.

But is it a policy that will meet with the approval of the man

:00:28.:00:33.

who bankrolled the party's last general election campaign?

:00:34.:00:35.

Hello, Andrew. Let me see if I can clarify some things, are you a

:00:36.:00:43.

member of Ukip? I a patron of Ukip so I don't stop being a member. So

:00:44.:00:49.

you are still a member? I am, apparently for life. Are you still

:00:50.:00:53.

hoping to bankroll Ukip? Not at the moment. Why is that? The internal

:00:54.:00:59.

problems we have had in Ukip have been aired, and a lot needs to

:01:00.:01:04.

happen in the party in terms of professionalising it and I think it

:01:05.:01:08.

is ill-prepared for this general election. Are you going to run in

:01:09.:01:14.

Clacton? I will be if selected. For Ukip? Yes. Have you been to Clacton?

:01:15.:01:21.

I've been with Nigel Mansell on the campaign. You will run for a

:01:22.:01:25.

constituency you've only been in once? Yes, why does that surprise

:01:26.:01:31.

you? You know nothing about it. I've just recently decided to become the

:01:32.:01:35.

candidate there. Did you know where it is? Of course I do, your piece

:01:36.:01:39.

the other night was completely wrong. I said I knew where it was

:01:40.:01:43.

but I didn't know much about it. Maybe the people of Clacton will

:01:44.:01:50.

regard you as a carpetbagger? Why? Because you have never been there.

:01:51.:01:56.

Most politicians are carpetbaggers and I will be there for the right

:01:57.:02:00.

reasons. I thought it was because of your visceral hatred of Douglas

:02:01.:02:06.

Carswell. He only lasted 24 hours after I announced my candidacy so we

:02:07.:02:10.

will see what happens. The main thing I am going to Clacton on

:02:11.:02:13.

Monday to meet the Ukip councillors, see what the issues are and see if

:02:14.:02:16.

they want me as a candidate. They may not want me. Who do you think

:02:17.:02:23.

you will be up against? The potential Conservative candidate.

:02:24.:02:29.

Who in Ukip? I don't suppose anyone in Ukip will stand against me, I

:02:30.:02:33.

wouldn't have thought. Really? I would have thought. Money talks! Why

:02:34.:02:41.

do you say that? You talked about having a pirate radio station to

:02:42.:02:44.

blast into Clacton so it is not covered by the election rules.

:02:45.:02:47.

You've been talking about financing a sort of right-wing Momentum

:02:48.:02:53.

movement. I just wonder, has politics now just become a

:02:54.:02:58.

Richmond's hobby? From my perspective the reason I'm

:02:59.:03:01.

interested in it is if you have looked at what has happened in the

:03:02.:03:03.

country, it's clear the Conservatives will have a massive

:03:04.:03:08.

majority. -- has politics become a rich man's hobby. Only putting up

:03:09.:03:14.

candidates not against Brexit MPs. Is Ukip over? I don't think so. The

:03:15.:03:21.

electoral maths is interesting because first-past-the-post

:03:22.:03:23.

effectively could help Ukip in this example. Ukip got one MP with 4

:03:24.:03:34.

million votes. What we are seeing is the total collapse of Labour. In

:03:35.:03:38.

that situation there are certain seats up north in Hartlepool and

:03:39.:03:41.

other seats like that, the total collapse of the Labour Party could

:03:42.:03:44.

help Ukip to win a few seats. Is Ukip over? It looks that way, yes.

:03:45.:03:50.

They haven't made much of a dent in Labour's vote in the north, they

:03:51.:03:54.

don't really have a defining issue anymore and all the polls we have

:03:55.:03:58.

seen published since the election was called show Ukip vote is going

:03:59.:04:03.

to the Conservatives. Is Ukip over? It always happens when the

:04:04.:04:06.

Conservative Party goes far to the right, really hard Brexit, there is

:04:07.:04:11.

no space for BMP, Ukip and all of that. Are you associating the BNP

:04:12.:04:17.

with Ukip? Or that, movements to the right of the Conservatives get eaten

:04:18.:04:20.

up one the Conservatives move as far right as Theresa May has done. I

:04:21.:04:26.

think what your enterprise shows is how it's really time to reform

:04:27.:04:30.

funding of political parties. It is disgraceful that very rich people

:04:31.:04:35.

can move in and bankroll the Brexit campaigned to the extent that they

:04:36.:04:39.

did. We need proper state funding of parties. The union is bankrolling

:04:40.:04:45.

Labour. I assume the reform would include trade unions? Indeed. Ukip

:04:46.:04:53.

has lost its talisman in Nigel Farage, it was a one-man party, I

:04:54.:04:57.

have to say, people like Tim. Having voted for Brexit its reason to be

:04:58.:05:02.

has gone. It will still take votes from Labour and the Conservatives

:05:03.:05:05.

but probably only from the don't knows. There are seats in certain

:05:06.:05:09.

places where if enough Tories back Ukip dated when. Hartlepool is an

:05:10.:05:15.

example. Were the Tories will never win. The demise of Ukip has been

:05:16.:05:19.

forecasted many times before but I don't see a Tory candidate winning

:05:20.:05:23.

in a place like Hartlepool. So we could see, and I think we will see,

:05:24.:05:27.

the total collapse of the Labour vote. We shall see. The leader of

:05:28.:05:32.

the party of which you say you are still a patron, Paul Nuttall, said

:05:33.:05:36.

he would ban the Burcea and the niqab in public, what is your view?

:05:37.:05:44.

-- the niqab and the Burcea? I'm not in agreement with that. If it is a

:05:45.:05:48.

security issue at airports or public transport it could be acceptable but

:05:49.:05:52.

I'm not in favour of curtailing people's writes. You have gone

:05:53.:05:56.

further than him, haven't you? You tweeted you wanted to ban Muslim

:05:57.:06:00.

immigration. In my view the problem we have had with the lack of

:06:01.:06:04.

integration in certain communities has come about through mass

:06:05.:06:08.

open-door immigration. If you are a must win you wouldn't be allowed in?

:06:09.:06:12.

What I said in the tweet was I think they should be a ban on

:06:13.:06:17.

immigration... You said Muslim immigration. That's what I believe.

:06:18.:06:23.

If you are a world famous doctor coming to help one of our big

:06:24.:06:26.

teaching hospitals in this country because you are a Muslim you could

:06:27.:06:29.

not get in? We have to start somewhere, there are huge problems

:06:30.:06:33.

in areas where 20% of the population don't speak the language, they

:06:34.:06:38.

haven't integrated. You should read the rest of the tweet, it is control

:06:39.:06:44.

of immigration from a 10-year ban on unskilled immigration. The first

:06:45.:06:47.

thing you said was to ban Muslim immigration, it is in black and

:06:48.:06:51.

white. I have said that, I do not dispute that. I was questioning

:06:52.:06:55.

that. There is my answer, you cannot tell somebody's will adjust freedoms

:06:56.:06:59.

but what you can do is stop adding to the problem. Doesn't that sound a

:07:00.:07:04.

bit like the BNP? It's as like BNP and like Trump. Its, we hate

:07:05.:07:08.

Muslims, fine, if that is what you are standing for, that is clear. The

:07:09.:07:14.

final word is we have had open-door mass immigration from the

:07:15.:07:16.

Conservative Party, we've had it from the Labour Party and its fine

:07:17.:07:19.

if you are in north London to say these things, if you live in Oldham

:07:20.:07:23.

and your community has been radically changed and you have a

:07:24.:07:27.

whole population not integrating in, not speaking the language, something

:07:28.:07:30.

has got to be done. We had better leave it there. Thank you for coming

:07:31.:07:35.

in. I am en route to Clacton. We will see how you get on there.

:07:36.:07:37.

Now, Lib Dem leader Tim Farron was on TV earlier today

:07:38.:07:40.

and he was asked again about an issue that he's been

:07:41.:07:43.

asked about repeatedly - his attitude to homosexuality.

:07:44.:07:45.

when they asked you whether gay sex was a sin.

:07:46.:07:54.

Come on, Robert, I've been asked this question loads

:07:55.:07:57.

few days and I have been clear, even in the House of Commons,

:07:58.:08:01.

It's possible I'm not the only person getting tired

:08:02.:08:11.

Probably, but then why don't you just close it down?

:08:12.:08:15.

Toby Young, why does he get into such a mess over this? I mean, he is

:08:16.:08:27.

leader of the Liberal Democrats. Its 2017. I guess the reason he keeps

:08:28.:08:31.

refusing to answer that question is because what the implication is that

:08:32.:08:35.

he does think that homosexual acts are sinful, and he cannot bring

:08:36.:08:41.

himself not to say that, or to say what Robert Peston and others want

:08:42.:08:45.

him to say because he is an evangelical Christian who converted

:08:46.:08:50.

at the age of 20, 21, and clearly he really struggles with this issue and

:08:51.:08:52.

I think it will be really difficult for the Lib Dems to promote, or even

:08:53.:08:57.

Lib Dem candidates like Vince Cable, to promote the idea of the

:08:58.:09:00.

Progressive Alliance even though Tim has ruled it out, if he is not

:09:01.:09:04.

prepared to say I don't think homosexual acts are sinful. What is

:09:05.:09:12.

your view? It is disastrous if that is what he really thinks but Preston

:09:13.:09:15.

did not push the hard. I'm not sure he understood the difference about

:09:16.:09:17.

the question between gay sex and being gay. I think he just thought

:09:18.:09:21.

he was going on saying I'm not anti-gay. He needs to command

:09:22.:09:25.

immediately and clarify it. If you are right and he does actually think

:09:26.:09:29.

it is a sin he is in real trouble. There is a slight parallel with what

:09:30.:09:33.

police said before about Jeremy Corbyn, how his unilateral nuclear

:09:34.:09:37.

policy would appeal to the hard core of the left. The problem for Tim

:09:38.:09:42.

Farron with what he is saying here, while he is an evangelical

:09:43.:09:46.

Christian, this will not appeal to traditional Liberal Democrats. An

:09:47.:09:54.

LGBT community member cannot possibly vote for an MP who believes

:09:55.:09:58.

that a sexual act between homosexuals is sinful. He has not

:09:59.:10:02.

made that clear. Of course, he wants to stop Brexit as well so he is

:10:03.:10:06.

neither liberal nor democratic. He will have seven weeks to make it

:10:07.:10:09.

clear because I am sure he will be asked again. We have the chairman of

:10:10.:10:14.

the Conservative Party on earlier, Polly. An important figure for the

:10:15.:10:18.

Tory campaign. What did you make of what he said? I don't think he will

:10:19.:10:22.

have him on very often, he didn't do brilliantly. I think they will bring

:10:23.:10:26.

back chemical Ali, Michael Fallon, he can say anything with a straight

:10:27.:10:31.

face, he can say black is white. Michael Fallon, chemical Ali? Why do

:10:32.:10:36.

you say that? He can absolutely say black is white. For instance if you

:10:37.:10:42.

look back at what he said, you challenged him about the energy

:10:43.:10:49.

policy, when Ed Miliband came out with it, he said any kind of freeze

:10:50.:10:53.

would stop investment, the lights will go out. You have him on, he

:10:54.:10:58.

will say the exact opposite. He is magic at that. But I don't think

:10:59.:11:04.

your guy today was up to the job. If Michael Fallon was chemical Ali, or

:11:05.:11:10.

we should say chemical Fally, Patrick was more like comical Ali.

:11:11.:11:16.

The whole Iraq war is rushing back at me. He is the warm up comedian,

:11:17.:11:21.

there is another six weeks to go, just getting things started. What

:11:22.:11:26.

did you think? I don't think he was too bad, it was difficult for him to

:11:27.:11:29.

say exactly what was in the 2050 manifesto is going to be replicated

:11:30.:11:33.

in the Conservatives' manifesto during this general election, he

:11:34.:11:36.

doesn't want to be seen rowing back on stuff but on the other hand I

:11:37.:11:40.

don't think he can conceal the fact they will be far fewer commitments

:11:41.:11:43.

in this Conservative manifesto than in the last one, as you and I know,

:11:44.:11:47.

it was full of rash promises last time because they thought they would

:11:48.:11:56.

have to trade a lot of them away in the negotiations with the Liberal

:11:57.:11:58.

Democrats to form a second coalition so they are saddled with policies

:11:59.:12:01.

they don't particularly want to be hemmed in by. The forthcoming

:12:02.:12:03.

Conservative manifesto will be much lighter and shorter with fewer

:12:04.:12:06.

commitments. Different? Some stuff jumped from the 2050 manifesto? I

:12:07.:12:10.

think so but we will see a commitment to run schools to

:12:11.:12:13.

overcome that hurdle in the next parliament and I don't think, in

:12:14.:12:15.

spite of what you think, Polly, that it will be a hard tack to the right.

:12:16.:12:20.

I think if anything the mood music of the Conservative manifesto will

:12:21.:12:25.

be a centrist inclusive one. The mood music will be because the

:12:26.:12:29.

specifics would be there. She is good at saying governing for

:12:30.:12:32.

everybody and the many and not the few but when you look at the hard

:12:33.:12:36.

facts of what her and Hammond's budget looks like, you look at her

:12:37.:12:40.

hard Brexit, it's a very different story. Or that, the music has

:12:41.:12:47.

stopped for this week! Thank you. I will be back next week at the normal

:12:48.:12:54.

time of 11am on Sunday morning. On BBC One The Daily Politics is back

:12:55.:12:58.

at midday tomorrow and we will be on every day next week on BBC Two.

:12:59.:13:03.

Remember, if it's Sunday, it is The Sunday Politics.

:13:04.:13:32.

There'll be a couple of hours of just fantastic music, really,

:13:33.:13:35.

all the Ella classics, as well as some very special guests,

:13:36.:13:38.

we have Mica Paris, Imelda May, Dame Cleo Laine

:13:39.:13:41.

'There's a side to Rory that the public doesn't see.

:13:42.:13:46.

'Rory has suspected for some time that he may have ADHD.

:13:47.:13:50.

Here we have the first hydrogen bomb that went into service with

:13:51.:13:59.

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