30/04/2017 Sunday Politics London


30/04/2017

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It's Sunday Morning, and this is the Sunday Politics.

:00:35.:00:39.

Theresa May says she has no plans to increase tax levels,

:00:40.:00:41.

but refuses to repeat David Cameron's 2015 manifesto

:00:42.:00:45.

promise ruling out hikes in VAT, national insurance and income tax.

:00:46.:00:52.

The leaders of the EU's 27 member states unanimously

:00:53.:00:55.

agree their negotiating strategy for the upcoming Brexit talks, but

:00:56.:00:59.

And in the last of our series of interviews ahead of Thursday's

:01:00.:01:09.

local elections, I'll be talking to the leader of Plaid Cymru Leanne

:01:10.:01:12.

Wood, and the former leader of the SNP Alex Salmond.

:01:13.:01:19.

They hit an all-time low after coalition government,

:01:20.:01:47.

but are the Lib Dems poised to bounce back,

:01:48.:01:48.

And with me to analyse the week's politics,

:01:49.:01:53.

Isabel Oakeshott, Steve Richards, Tom Newton-Dunn.

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They'll be tweeting using the hashtag #bbcsp.

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So when Theresa May was interviewed just over an hour ago

:01:57.:01:59.

on The Andrew Marr Show, the Prime Minister was asked

:02:00.:02:02.

to confirm that she would repeat David Cameron's 2015 election

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promise not to raise VAT, national insurance and income tax

:02:05.:02:06.

We have absolutely no plans to increase the level of tax,

:02:07.:02:11.

but I'm also very clear that I don't want to make specific proposals

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on taxes unless I'm absolutely sure that I can deliver on those.

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But it is, would be my intention as a Conservative Government

:02:17.:02:19.

and a Conservative Prime Minister, to reduce the taxes

:02:20.:02:21.

The Tories like to have a clear tax message in elections, are they

:02:22.:02:31.

getting into a bit of a mess? That method wasn't clear, but does it

:02:32.:02:34.

mean, saying they have no plans to increase the level of tax? We are

:02:35.:02:39.

clear there will not be a rise in VAT, a lot of commentators will get

:02:40.:02:44.

overexcited about that, but there was no great expectations there

:02:45.:02:49.

would be a rise in VAT. Tempting as it is, because even one percentage

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point on VAT rate is 4.5 billion for the exchequer so it is tempting but

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there has been no speculation that would happen. We can see that she

:02:59.:03:05.

clearly wants to reiterate the language about hard-working families

:03:06.:03:08.

but I don't think we are that much the wiser. Even if she does not put

:03:09.:03:14.

up rates, according to projections the overall tax burden, as a

:03:15.:03:18.

percentage of GDP, is rising, will rise in the years ahead. That is why

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it was an odd phrase, I know she is doing it to be evasive but to say

:03:24.:03:28.

they have no plans to raise the general level of taxation, they do

:03:29.:03:32.

have. We also know they have specific plans because it was in the

:03:33.:03:36.

last budget, they had a tax rise which they had to revise, National

:03:37.:03:43.

Insurance rises, so very wisely in my view they are keeping options

:03:44.:03:51.

open, the 2015 tax-and-spend debate was a fantasy world, totally

:03:52.:03:55.

unrelated to the demands that would follow. They now have the

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flexibility, one of the arguments you had heard last time was Philip

:04:01.:04:03.

Hammond saying to her, we have to break away from the 2015 manifesto

:04:04.:04:09.

commitment and we can only do it this way, that is one of the better

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arguments. The Tories like to talk about tax cuts in elections, whether

:04:14.:04:17.

they do it is another matter, but they are not being allowed to talk

:04:18.:04:24.

about tax cuts, they are now on the defensive over whether they will

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raise taxes. That is not a healthy position for the campaign to be in.

:04:29.:04:31.

If you look at the numbers, quite frankly, if you will not do this at

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this election with eight 20 point lead over Labour, then when will you

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take these tough decisions? Reading between the lines of what Theresa

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May has said all over different broadcasters this morning, income

:04:46.:04:48.

tax will go down for low-income families, such as the threshold rise

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that microbes that was already factored in. She has had to commit

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to it again. VAT will be fat, national insurance contributions

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will go up. Do you think they will go up? I think so, she had plenty of

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opportunity to rule it out and she didn't. There was a terrible mess

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with the budget, it is a good tax argument but not a good electoral

:05:16.:05:18.

argument that you are eroding the base so heavily with people moving

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into self-employment that as you raise national insurance

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contributions for everybody but the self-employed, it is something the

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Treasury will have to look at. The other triple lock on pensions, we

:05:30.:05:34.

don't know if they will keep to that either? If they are sensible they

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will find a form of words to give them flexibility in that area as

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well. I would say there is no question over that, that has gone.

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As Mrs May would say, you will have to wait for the manifesto. That is

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what all the party leaders tell me! Labour have spent the weekend

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pushing their messages Speaking at a camapign rally

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in London yesterday, Jeremy Corbyn promised a Labour

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government would fix what he called People are fed up, fed up with not

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being able to get somewhere to live, fed up waiting for hospital

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appointments, fed up with 0-hours contracts, fed up with low pay, fed

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up with debt, fed up with not being able to get on in their lives

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because we have a system that is rigged against so many.

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I've been joined from Newcastle by Labour's elections

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and campaigns co-ordinator, Ian Lavery.

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Good morning. To deal with this rigged economy, as Mr Corbyn calls

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it, the Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell has a 20 point plan for

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workers out today. When you add up everything he plans to do to help

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workers, how much will it cost? The full costings, one thing I need to

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say at the very beginning, the costings of any policy which we have

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already ruled out and any policy we will be ruling out in the next few

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days and weeks will be fully costed in the manifesto and in addition to

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the fact that it will be fully costed, we will see it in the

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manifesto how indeed it has been funded, so we are very clear,

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anything we have seen already, and there are some exciting policy

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releases and there will be more in the future, anything we are going to

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do will be fully costed and in the manifesto. You announced a 20 point

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plan but cannot tell me what the costs will be this morning so at the

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moment it is a menu without prices? It is not a menu without prices, it

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is a fantastic opportunity. This 20 point plan is something which will

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transform the lives of millions of millions of people in the

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workplace... But what is the cost? It will be welcomed by many people

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across the UK. The fact the costings have not been released, you will

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have to be patient, it will be released very clearly, it will

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identify that in the manifesto. Let me come down to one of the points,

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the end of the public sector pay freeze. Can you give us any idea how

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much that will cost? The end of the public sector pay freeze, so

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important to the future of the Labour Party, it is an massive

:08:15.:08:21.

policy decision. Let me say at this stage, Theresa May, the Prime

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Minister, this morning, on The Andrew Marr Show, did not have the

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common decency, courtesy all respect to condone the fact that nurses, the

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heroes of the NHS, have had a reduction of nearly 14% in their

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wages since 2010 and are using food banks to feed themselves! Does that

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not say everything that is wrong with today's society? So can you

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tell me what it will cost, which is what my question was? What I will

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say is everything the Labour Party pledges, everything that we come out

:08:57.:08:59.

with, what we will roll out between now and the 8th of June, will be

:09:00.:09:04.

fully costed, people will be very much aware of how much the costings

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will be, where the funding will come from, when the manifesto is

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published. What about doubling paternity leave, nu minimum wage,

:09:13.:09:17.

four new bank holidays, any idea what it will

:09:18.:09:28.

cost? These are exciting new proposals and of course today cost

:09:29.:09:32.

money but we are the sixth richest economy in the world. It is about

:09:33.:09:34.

redistribution of the wealth we create. We are seeing growth in the

:09:35.:09:37.

economy, it is how we utilise the finances in the best way we possibly

:09:38.:09:40.

can for a fairer society for the many and not the few. You just can't

:09:41.:09:46.

tell me how much it will cost? That is why I will repeat again that you

:09:47.:09:51.

need to be very patient. Do you know the cost yourself? You are the head

:09:52.:09:55.

of the campaign, do you know the cost of these things yourself? I am

:09:56.:09:59.

very much aware of how much the costings are likely to be, they have

:10:00.:10:03.

been identified, they will be published in the manifesto. You

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really do understand I would not be releasing today, live on your show,

:10:10.:10:13.

any costings or predictions with regards the manifesto. Why not? You

:10:14.:10:18.

have released the policy, why not the cost? Because there is a fine

:10:19.:10:24.

detail and we will identify it to the general public in the manifesto.

:10:25.:10:27.

We not only explain how much it will cost but we will explain where the

:10:28.:10:34.

funding comes from. Be patient. Will some of the costs be met by

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increasing taxes? I would think at this point in time there is not any

:10:40.:10:44.

indication to increase basic taxes and again the taxes and spending of

:10:45.:10:50.

the Labour Government with the proposals of the 20 point plan, the

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issues we have got, housing, the NHS, crime, education will all be

:10:56.:11:01.

identified with the costings in the publication. Can you tell us this

:11:02.:11:06.

morning, we'll tax for most people rise or not to finance this? We in

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the Labour Party are looking to a fair tax system which will be

:11:14.:11:19.

clearly identified in the manifesto. Mr McDonnell also wants to ban all

:11:20.:11:25.

0-hours contracts. Would that include those who actually like

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those contracts? There are nearly 1 million, depending on which figured

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you'd use, there are nearly 1 million people on zero-hours

:11:35.:11:38.

contract and the vast proportion of those want to be able to live a

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decent life, a secure life, they want to understand whether they will

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be at work the next day, they're included hours... I understand a lot

:11:50.:11:53.

of people don't like zero-hours contract and your proposal will

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address that, but there are those, I saw one survey where 65% of people

:11:58.:12:02.

on zero-hours contract like the flexibility it gives them. Will you

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force them off zero-hours contract or if they like them will they

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continue with them? We will discuss it with employee is to make sure

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individuals in the workplace have the right to negotiate hours in that

:12:16.:12:19.

workplace. Guaranteed hours is very, very important. Zero-hour contracts

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are an instrument in which employers abuse and exploit mainly young

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people, mainly female people in the workplace. We would be banning

:12:32.:12:37.

zero-hour contract. But there are those, students for example, who

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like them, would they be forced off zero-hour contracts in your

:12:42.:12:46.

proposal? Our proposal would be banning zero-hour contract and

:12:47.:12:50.

introducing contracts which have set hours in the workplace. You also say

:12:51.:12:55.

no company will be able to bid for a public contract unless the boss

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earns no more than 20 times the lowest paid, or the average wage,

:13:00.:13:04.

I'm not quite sure which. What would happen if British Aerospace bids to

:13:05.:13:07.

build more joint strike Fighters and the boss is paid more than 20 times?

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I understand the point you raise but we have an obscene situation in this

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country, Andrew, in which the bosses at the very top make an absolute

:13:21.:13:25.

fortune... But what would happen then? Who would build joint strike

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Fighters... The difference in wages between the top earners in the

:13:32.:13:36.

country and the people in the factories, in the workshops,

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producing the goods, is vast. I understand that is the reason you

:13:42.:13:46.

want a ratio. What I am saying is, what happens if the ratio is

:13:47.:13:50.

greater? Who gets the contract if not British Aerospace? Who else

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builds the planes? We are going to introduce a wage rate CEO of one to

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20. -- wage ratio. We want to close the gap between the people at the

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very top and people who produce the goods. Let me try one more Time, who

:14:07.:14:10.

would build the joint strike fighter? We would look at the issue

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as it came along but the policy is clear... Can you name a single

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defence contractor weather boss' salary is less than 20 times average

:14:22.:14:29.

earnings? We are not reducing, we have rolled that out as part of this

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fantastic plan to transform society to get rid of discrimination, to try

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and bring together our communities. We will introduce a pay ratio of one

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to 20. Fair enough, thank you very much.

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It's a month after the triggering of Article 50, and EU leaders -

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with the exception of Britain - met in Brussels this weekend

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to agree their opening negotiating stance, to get the divorce

:14:55.:14:57.

It is inside this psychedelic chamber where Britain's 'Grexit'

:14:58.:15:13.

future will be decided over the next two years, but there is a vast gulf

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in rhetoric coming from the UK and the EU. With parallel narratives

:15:19.:15:28.

emerging for both sides. There is broad agreement that an orderly

:15:29.:15:31.

withdrawal is in the interests of both sides. But Theresa May's

:15:32.:15:36.

position is that the terms of our future trade deal should be

:15:37.:15:39.

negotiated alongside the terms of our divorce. Meanwhile the EU says

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the terms of the UK's exit must be decided before any discussion on a

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future trade deal can begin. But don't forget that divorce

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settlement. Don't remind me. In Brussels, many think written should

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pay even more, while in the UK ministers said the divorce bill

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should be capped at 3 billion. After you. Thank you.

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For are you looking forward to it? Isn't that divorce bill a bit high?

:16:08.:16:18.

Isn't this about punishing Britain? We are very united, you all seem so

:16:19.:16:23.

surprised but it's a fact. How soon can we get a deal? We have to wait

:16:24.:16:31.

for the elections. It was the decision of Mrs May. It took over an

:16:32.:16:36.

hour for the leaders to make their entrances but once inside it's just

:16:37.:16:39.

a few minutes to agree the negotiating guidelines. They set out

:16:40.:16:45.

three main areas. The first phase of talks on the divorce settlement will

:16:46.:16:49.

deal with the existing financial commitments to the EU, the Northern

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Ireland border and the rights of EU citizens in the UK. They said a UK

:16:53.:16:56.

trade agreement can be discussed when the first phase of talks

:16:57.:17:01.

reaches significant progress. And that there must be unity in the

:17:02.:17:06.

negotiations, that individual EU members won't negotiate separately

:17:07.:17:12.

with the UK. They are quite good here at negotiating because they are

:17:13.:17:16.

used to it. They set a maximum and then they have to recede a little

:17:17.:17:20.

bit depending on what the other side is prepared to offer. I think there

:17:21.:17:26.

is room for manoeuvre in some issues, but I don't think some of

:17:27.:17:30.

the baseline things will change that much. For example I don't think the

:17:31.:17:35.

European Union will concede on the rights of citizens who are already

:17:36.:17:40.

in the UK. It will be very difficult for them to accept that they will

:17:41.:17:46.

not be any exit bill, and the question of Northern Ireland is very

:17:47.:17:50.

important as well, the hard order question. The baseline things are

:17:51.:17:54.

not going to move that much, then you have room for manoeuvring

:17:55.:17:58.

between. On security, defence and the fight against terrorism, the

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guidelines said the EU stands ready to work together. And after lunch,

:18:03.:18:07.

friendly signs from some EU leaders as they gave individual press

:18:08.:18:12.

conferences. Paul and said the talks should open doors to new

:18:13.:18:15.

opportunities and even German Chancellor Angela Merkel, who had

:18:16.:18:22.

earlier said some in Britain were deluded about Brexit, softened her

:18:23.:18:24.

tone saying there was no conspiracy against the UK. Unity was the

:18:25.:18:29.

buzzword at this summit and for once everybody seemed to be sticking to

:18:30.:18:34.

the script. That unity is not only amongst the 27 states, it's also

:18:35.:18:38.

among the institutions so many of the divisions we have seen in the

:18:39.:18:43.

past at European level do not exist. That is very important and it's not

:18:44.:18:47.

be unity that is directed somehow against the UK because I think we

:18:48.:18:51.

all want this to be an orderly process and part of that is that the

:18:52.:19:04.

EU side is unified. So although there are no surprises here, what

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took place in this room was a significant step towards the real

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Brexit negotiations which will begin soon after the general election in

:19:12.:19:16.

June, said to be the most complex the UK has faced in our lifetimes.

:19:17.:19:21.

Isabel, Steve and Tom are still with me.

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Isabel, doesn't the British media have to be a bit careful here? We

:19:27.:19:34.

would never take at face value anything a British politician tells

:19:35.:19:39.

us. We would question it, put it in context and wonder if they are

:19:40.:19:43.

bluffing, but we seem to take at face value anything a European

:19:44.:19:47.

politician says about these negotiations. You only have to look

:19:48.:19:51.

at the front page of the Sunday Times today to see that. They quoted

:19:52.:19:56.

at length Juncker, who didn't like the food at the reception and this

:19:57.:20:00.

and that, and I think the mood is very optimistic. The key thing is

:20:01.:20:05.

the EU trade Commissioner has said we will get a free trade deal and a

:20:06.:20:10.

lot of people seem to be wilfully ignoring that incredibly big

:20:11.:20:13.

concession. That is what will happen in their view. Everything that is

:20:14.:20:19.

said at the moment needs a slight rerun over. They are all in

:20:20.:20:24.

negotiating positions, plus we seem to be completely unaware that they

:20:25.:20:28.

all have their own domestic constituencies as well. Angela

:20:29.:20:34.

Merkel has an important election coming up in September,

:20:35.:20:36.

Euroscepticism is quite different from Britain of course, but there's

:20:37.:20:40.

a different kind of euro scepticism in Germany, she has got to deal with

:20:41.:20:45.

that. Of course she has, which is why you are right, nothing should be

:20:46.:20:49.

taken too seriously out of the mouths of British politicians or

:20:50.:20:55.

European politicians until October this year. We have got to wait for

:20:56.:20:59.

the French elections, then German elections, and if you look through

:21:00.:21:03.

this you can see a way forward. There's no trade talks until pay up,

:21:04.:21:09.

but what was actually written was no trade talks until we make

:21:10.:21:13.

significant progress on the money. You can define significant progress

:21:14.:21:17.

in a lot of ways but come December, fireworks over the summer, we all

:21:18.:21:22.

get very excited about it, in these chairs I'm sure, come December

:21:23.:21:26.

things will look a lot smoother. The German elections are at the end of

:21:27.:21:31.

September but I've seen reports in German press, depending how it goes

:21:32.:21:34.

it could take until Christmas before a new coalition government is put

:21:35.:21:40.

together. The Brussels long-standing negotiating tactic of nothing is

:21:41.:21:43.

agreed until everything is agreed, then I guess the British could say

:21:44.:21:49.

we agree a certain sum of money if that's what it takes but that

:21:50.:21:53.

depends on them, what good trade deal we get. If we don't get that,

:21:54.:21:59.

the sum of money is off the table. In that sense, the two are going

:22:00.:22:04.

parallel. However, I wouldn't entirely dismiss what people are

:22:05.:22:08.

saying in their pre-election periods to their own electorates because

:22:09.:22:14.

they have to some extent to deliver subsequently. Of course Angela

:22:15.:22:18.

Merkel is campaigning and electioneering, who wouldn't, she

:22:19.:22:22.

has a tough election to fight, but she is measured and thoughtful and

:22:23.:22:26.

when she says things like some of the British are delusional, that is

:22:27.:22:30.

unusually strong language for her. What was she referring to? I don't

:22:31.:22:37.

know, it wasn't specific. Have the cake and eat it perhaps the

:22:38.:22:41.

sequencing the British don't want. When they thought the British

:22:42.:22:44.

government was going to effectively demand membership of the single

:22:45.:22:48.

market, that's not going to happen now. Unless you sign up to the four

:22:49.:22:55.

pillars, that's the cake and eat it proposition, which they are right in

:22:56.:23:01.

saying Theresa May has made. But everybody has access, even with no

:23:02.:23:05.

deal you have access. The other side of it is I think there will be a

:23:06.:23:15.

united position from them. And so, as somebody pointed out in that

:23:16.:23:21.

report, they are experienced, tough negotiators, so I don't think it

:23:22.:23:29.

will be quite as easy as some think. I spoke to one of those who drew up

:23:30.:23:35.

Article 50 and they said to me they deliberately put this two year

:23:36.:23:38.

timetable in to make it impossible for anybody to think about leaving.

:23:39.:23:45.

This is really tight, this negotiation. Easy, it isn't.

:23:46.:23:48.

This coming Thursday, voters up and down the country

:23:49.:23:50.

will be going to the polls in this year's local elections.

:23:51.:23:53.

Over the past few weeks I've interviewed representatives

:23:54.:23:55.

of the Conservative Party, Labour, the Liberal Democrats,

:23:56.:23:57.

Today it's the turn of Plaid Cymru and the SNP.

:23:58.:24:00.

A little earlier I spoke Alex Salmond, who until 2014

:24:01.:24:03.

I started by asking him why Scots should vote SNP in local elections

:24:04.:24:07.

when the Scottish Government had just cut central Government funding

:24:08.:24:09.

It's actually a funding increase going into Scottish councils this

:24:10.:24:25.

year, and if you look at the funding position for example between

:24:26.:24:29.

Scottish councils and those in England, which are obviously

:24:30.:24:32.

directly related through the Barnett formula, the funding in Scotland has

:24:33.:24:36.

been incomparably better than that in England so there's a whole range

:24:37.:24:47.

of the -- of reasons... What's happening south of the border

:24:48.:24:50.

indicates the protection the Scottish Parliament has been able to

:24:51.:24:54.

put in that helps vital services in Scotland. But there hasn't been a

:24:55.:24:58.

funding increase, the block grant from Westminster to Edinburgh was

:24:59.:25:03.

increased by 1.5% in real terms but the grant to councils was cut by

:25:04.:25:10.

2.6%. It was going to be a cut of 330 million, the Greens got you to

:25:11.:25:15.

reduce it to 170 million but it is still a cut of 2.6%. Your own

:25:16.:25:25.

Aberdeenshire Council has had a cut to 391 million. You have cut the

:25:26.:25:30.

money to councils. Yes, but councils have available to them more

:25:31.:25:33.

resources this year, and as you say the budget increased that further

:25:34.:25:38.

which is why we put forward an excellent local government budget in

:25:39.:25:41.

Aberdeenshire and resisted a Tory attempts to knock ?3 million off...

:25:42.:25:48.

You asked me about Aberdeenshire, and Aberdeenshire has put forward a

:25:49.:25:52.

budget for investment expansion and resisted a Tory attempts to knock ?3

:25:53.:25:57.

million off the education budget, and I'm very grateful you have given

:25:58.:26:00.

me the opportunity to make that point. The Government in Edinburgh

:26:01.:26:06.

has cut the money to Aberdeenshire by ?11 million. It is a cut. But

:26:07.:26:13.

there is an investment budget in Aberdeenshire that has been made

:26:14.:26:16.

available by the ability to increase the council tax by 2.5% after a

:26:17.:26:22.

nine-year freeze in Scotland, and that has brought more resources into

:26:23.:26:26.

local government and that's why the butchered in Aberdeenshire has been

:26:27.:26:30.

an investment budget including protection of the education budget

:26:31.:26:34.

in the face of a Tory and liberal attempt to cut bit. You have to

:26:35.:26:38.

compare what is happening in Scotland and England, and there's no

:26:39.:26:41.

doubt Scottish local authorities have been much better funded than

:26:42.:26:48.

those in England over the last few years and that's been the ability of

:26:49.:26:50.

the Scottish Government to protect the services at local level. A good

:26:51.:26:56.

reason for voting SNP. If they have been so well funded, why after a

:26:57.:27:02.

decade of SNP rule do one in five Scottish pupils leave primary school

:27:03.:27:10.

functionally illiterate? You have got to take these things... Nicola

:27:11.:27:14.

Sturgeon has made it a top priority to address these challenges but

:27:15.:27:19.

let's take another statistic. 93% of Scottish kids are now emerging from

:27:20.:27:22.

school to positive destinations, that means to further education,

:27:23.:27:30.

apprenticeships or work. Why are one in five functionally illiterate? You

:27:31.:27:36.

argue one statistic, I'm arguing Scottish education is putting in

:27:37.:27:40.

some substantially good performances like the 93% going on to positive

:27:41.:27:45.

destinations. You can't have a failing education system if you have

:27:46.:27:50.

got that 93%, and incidentally a record low youth unemployment in

:27:51.:27:54.

Scotland without the second lowest unemployment rate in Europe. These

:27:55.:27:59.

pupils are being prepared by the Scottish education system. Let's

:28:00.:28:03.

take the figures in the round on education. It's so important. Under

:28:04.:28:08.

your watch, under your government, the Scottish schools in the most

:28:09.:28:13.

important global comparison have fallen from tenth to 19th in

:28:14.:28:24.

science, and 11 to 24th in maths, that is a record of decline and

:28:25.:28:31.

failure. That is by the OECD and first questions about that, but the

:28:32.:28:36.

OECD has also described Scotland is one of the best educated societies

:28:37.:28:40.

in the world. That was from the school system in previous years gone

:28:41.:28:46.

by. For those who are currently in Scottish schools, you have fallen

:28:47.:28:52.

from 11th to 24th in mathematics. The OECD was commenting on

:28:53.:28:55.

introduction of the new curriculum for excellence in which they have

:28:56.:28:59.

given a resounding thumbs up to it, and that's the same source as the

:29:00.:29:04.

rankings which you are comparing. Nicola Sturgeon has said there are

:29:05.:29:08.

challenges on Scottish education, particularly the access through the

:29:09.:29:11.

education system and the attainment gap but don't tell me it's failing

:29:12.:29:16.

when 55% of our pupils have gone on to higher education. That's one of

:29:17.:29:19.

the most impressive figures in the world. Why have you cut 4000

:29:20.:29:26.

teachers? The pupil numbers in Scotland have been falling over

:29:27.:29:30.

recent years as well and now of course we are increasing the number

:29:31.:29:34.

of people going through teachers training so we can make sure that

:29:35.:29:38.

number increases, but listen, the Scottish Government and Scottish

:29:39.:29:43.

Parliament, as you very well know, are subject to real terms spending

:29:44.:29:47.

cuts over the last few years and all public services have been under

:29:48.:29:51.

pressure. The main reason in terms of teacher numbers has been an

:29:52.:29:54.

attempt on the Scottish Government to protect the teacher pupil ratio,

:29:55.:29:59.

and that will now be enhanced by a further taker -- intake. You

:30:00.:30:07.

promised you would reduce primary class sizes to 18 and instead they

:30:08.:30:12.

are now 23.5 and rising. You broke that promise. You didn't mention

:30:13.:30:19.

where we started from. We have kept the teacher pupil ratio very solid

:30:20.:30:23.

in Scotland and that's been against a range of public expenditure cuts

:30:24.:30:27.

but the new intake of teachers into the new teacher training in Scotland

:30:28.:30:29.

I think will enhance the system. You have spent in the pasty in

:30:30.:30:40.

Hollywood 43 hours on Government time debating independence. How many

:30:41.:30:45.

hours have you debated education on Government time? I don't have that

:30:46.:30:50.

they get a hand... The answer is zero, you have spent zero-hours

:30:51.:30:53.

debating education on Government time. Isn't it time the SNP got back

:30:54.:30:59.

to concentrating on the day job? Andrew, as you very well know Nicola

:31:00.:31:04.

Sturgeon has identified a key priority, closing the attainment gap

:31:05.:31:07.

in Scottish education. That is exactly what she has done. Let me

:31:08.:31:13.

answer the question, it is difficult to be in a remote location, if you

:31:14.:31:18.

talk before I answer the question then the view was will not be able

:31:19.:31:24.

to listen. I let you answer that without saying a word. Is this

:31:25.:31:29.

general election about independence, as you say it is, or not about

:31:30.:31:33.

independence, as Mrs Sturgeon says it is? No, I have said exactly the

:31:34.:31:40.

same as Nicola Sturgeon on that. The issue what independence will be

:31:41.:31:43.

decided in a national referendum of the Scottish people. The mandate for

:31:44.:31:48.

that referendum was gained in last year's Scottish elections. What this

:31:49.:31:53.

election is about is backing the right of the Scottish parliament to

:31:54.:31:55.

exercise that mandate and also providing real opposition to this

:31:56.:31:58.

Tory Government and allowing the Scottish Parliament to reverse

:31:59.:32:03.

austerity and some of the public expenditure cutbacks you have been

:32:04.:32:08.

talking about, that is what this is about, backing our Scottish

:32:09.:32:08.

Parliament. Alex Salmond, speaking

:32:09.:32:10.

to me earlier. I'm now joined by the leader

:32:11.:32:12.

of Plaid Cymru, Leanne Wood. You accuse the Government of wanting

:32:13.:32:19.

an extreme Brexit, those are your words. What is the difference

:32:20.:32:24.

between hard Brexit and extreme Brexit? My concern is the way in

:32:25.:32:27.

which we leave the European Union could be very damaging to Wales if,

:32:28.:32:32.

for example, there are tariffs introduced then that would have a

:32:33.:32:36.

real impact in terms of Welsh jobs, and I want to make sure that we have

:32:37.:32:42.

a Brexit that doesn't cause the damage to Wales that could be

:32:43.:32:46.

caused. But what is the difference between extreme and hard? Anything

:32:47.:32:52.

that puts Welsh jobs at risk is either extreme or hard and

:32:53.:32:55.

unacceptable to Plaid Cymru, and we will do what we can to protect those

:32:56.:32:59.

jobs. You want Wales to remain a member of the single market even if

:33:00.:33:04.

the UK isn't, which would mean Wales having to accept the free movement

:33:05.:33:08.

of people, still being under the jurisdiction of the European Court,

:33:09.:33:20.

and you also want to stay in the customs union which means you could

:33:21.:33:22.

not do your own free trade deals. What is the difference between that

:33:23.:33:25.

and being a member of the European Union? We would be like Norway,

:33:26.:33:27.

outside the European Union and inside the single market. The key

:33:28.:33:30.

question is the issue of jobs and the ability to continue to trade.

:33:31.:33:34.

Wales exports, we are the biggest exporter in the whole of the UK, so

:33:35.:33:38.

there are many jobs reliant upon those goods being able to be sold to

:33:39.:33:47.

the single market. Is it central to the UK? Out of the four countries

:33:48.:33:52.

that make up the UK... Proportionally, yes. If you remain

:33:53.:34:00.

in the single market, it is hard to see how Wales could stay in the

:34:01.:34:04.

single market if the UK -- when the rest of the UK was not, you cite

:34:05.:34:08.

Norway, that has free movement, it has to be said, it effectively have

:34:09.:34:13.

to accept the jurisdiction of the European Court, it is not in the

:34:14.:34:17.

customs union so it can do some of its own free trade deals, but the

:34:18.:34:26.

Welsh people voted to leave. We have to accept the principle of free

:34:27.:34:30.

movement if there is not going to be a hard border between the north and

:34:31.:34:34.

south of Ireland. There is going to be free movement within Ireland and

:34:35.:34:38.

therefore freedom of movement, as we said in the referendum campaign,

:34:39.:34:43.

would be very, very difficult to rule out. You lost that campaign, as

:34:44.:34:49.

you know, Wales voted to leave, 17 Council areas voted to leave, only

:34:50.:34:55.

five voted to remain. Doesn't it explain why your party is going

:34:56.:34:59.

nowhere? A majority in Wales voted to leave but you effectively want to

:35:00.:35:06.

support that and de facto remain in the EU? I don't accept that, we

:35:07.:35:10.

accepted the result but Plaid Cymru now is about defending Wales. There

:35:11.:35:15.

are so many risks facing our people from the jobs perspective, the

:35:16.:35:19.

privatisation perspective, the cuts perspective, and from the fact that

:35:20.:35:23.

the Tories would like to grab power was back from our National Assembly,

:35:24.:35:28.

so the key point... If you look at the Wales bill that went through

:35:29.:35:32.

recently, the list of reserved powers there suggests there are some

:35:33.:35:36.

powers currently within the Welsh Assembly jurisdiction that would be

:35:37.:35:42.

dragged back. Which power was will Westminster take back? They could

:35:43.:35:47.

take powers back over the NHS, for example. There is no indication they

:35:48.:35:54.

want to do that. The Tories have attacked the Welsh NHS. That is my

:35:55.:36:03.

point! Quite viciously. If they increase their mandate, I wouldn't

:36:04.:36:06.

put it past them to try to take power was back over the NHS and then

:36:07.:36:11.

of course we risk our NHS being privatised though this election is

:36:12.:36:16.

all about defending Wales, protecting Welsh people from further

:36:17.:36:19.

privatisation and cuts and a power grab from the Tories. Why is there

:36:20.:36:24.

never a breakthrough for your party, Plaid Cymru? Labour dominated in

:36:25.:36:28.

Wales for years, the Tories do quite well, Ukip had a surge for a while,

:36:29.:36:32.

it looks like the Tories will have another surge, never you, always the

:36:33.:36:37.

bridesmaid, never the bride. Wait until Thursday and I think you will

:36:38.:36:41.

see that in many parts of Wales we will increase our representation at

:36:42.:36:45.

a local council level. In the Rhondda, where I am assembly member,

:36:46.:36:51.

we are looking to increase our representation... You are only 13%

:36:52.:36:59.

in the polls will stop which is half of even the Tories in Wales! If you

:37:00.:37:03.

don't breakthrough in the selection, if the real problem is going

:37:04.:37:10.

nowhere, do you think you will pack it in? Robert Green not, I have a

:37:11.:37:15.

job to do, a vision of Wales which is about building up our nation and

:37:16.:37:20.

standing on our own two feet and my job is not done yet. Thank you for

:37:21.:37:23.

being with us as part of your job, we will see how it goes on Thursday.

:37:24.:37:27.

It's just gone 11.35, you're watching the Sunday Politics.

:37:28.:37:29.

We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland who leave us now

:37:30.:37:32.

Coming up here in 20 minutes, the Week Ahead.

:37:33.:37:35.

First though, the Sunday Politics where you are.

:37:36.:37:58.

We have three MPs with us this morning - Sarah Olney,

:37:59.:38:02.

Lib Dem MP for Richmond Park, Meg Hillier, Labour MP

:38:03.:38:04.

for Hackney South and Shoreditch, and for the Conservatives,

:38:05.:38:05.

is it hugely hard work, Theresa Villiers? We will all be knocking on

:38:06.:38:19.

as many doors as we can over the next few weeks, it will be a tough

:38:20.:38:24.

contest. I do this kind of thing year round, it does not take an

:38:25.:38:28.

election to get me on the doorstep, but obviously you step up a gear in

:38:29.:38:31.

a big way at this time of year, particularly when it was a snap

:38:32.:38:36.

election, obviously the long preparation period we had the 2015

:38:37.:38:40.

we are trying to do in about a week. You are the chairman of the Public

:38:41.:38:47.

Accounts Committee and had to try to get all of these reports out in

:38:48.:38:50.

time. We had 12 reports waiting to get out so we had to get them out

:38:51.:38:53.

very quickly, so that has been a big part of this week, but I have also

:38:54.:38:58.

been knocking on doors, I do it all year round, we would not be in

:38:59.:39:02.

politics if we didn't like talking to people. You cannot say you do it

:39:03.:39:06.

all year round, you have only been there six months! But I'm sure you

:39:07.:39:12.

will say you do it every week, potentially, having just got in in

:39:13.:39:17.

December, it could all be over soon? Well, I hope not, I am working very

:39:18.:39:21.

hard, as I have been since I came into Parliament, but this has come

:39:22.:39:26.

sooner than I expected, so it is a bit tiring getting back out there

:39:27.:39:29.

and being back on the campaign trail. But I'm enjoying it, I'm

:39:30.:39:34.

enjoying being an MP, I hope the people of Richmond Park will want me

:39:35.:39:37.

to continue as their MP, I look forward to it.

:39:38.:39:39.

So what challenges does a snap election throw

:39:40.:39:41.

up for the parties - those activists, party

:39:42.:39:43.

organisers and volunteers who could play a pivotal role

:39:44.:39:45.

In recent elections, Labour has shown itself a formidable

:39:46.:39:48.

Less than six weeks to go until voting day,

:39:49.:39:58.

but here in Hampstead and Kilburn, where at the last election Labour

:39:59.:40:02.

narrowly still had the strongest pull, the Conservatives have only

:40:03.:40:04.

just selected their candidate - local councillor and art therapist

:40:05.:40:07.

Meanwhile, the campaign to re-elect the sitting MP,

:40:08.:40:15.

And where Labour might enjoy a possible advantage is the number

:40:16.:40:22.

They claim to have the largest membership of any party in Europe.

:40:23.:40:29.

It's all systems go from the off, and it's very

:40:30.:40:31.

But it's been really easy here to organise

:40:32.:40:34.

because there's so many volunteers, so many local characters

:40:35.:40:36.

We had many people across the constituency come and help,

:40:37.:40:41.

so the Labour Party is very strong in terms of mobilisation.

:40:42.:40:46.

On the other side of the constituency, we were told

:40:47.:40:49.

it was too early in the campaign to speak to anyone from the local

:40:50.:40:52.

Conservative group, who are out canvassing too.

:40:53.:40:56.

Alex Crowley worked on both of Boris Johnson's successful

:40:57.:40:58.

mayoral campaigns, so he knows how to get a Conservative elected

:40:59.:41:01.

in what historically is not their territory.

:41:02.:41:05.

If you're anywhere else in the country, there'll

:41:06.:41:07.

be lot of complacency, I suspect.

:41:08.:41:10.

You'll see all the opinion polls showing the Tories are well ahead,

:41:11.:41:13.

and I think that will be a bit of a challenge because that

:41:14.:41:16.

means people might be tempted to stay at home.

:41:17.:41:18.

There's a lot of people don't tend to vote for their constituency MP.

:41:19.:41:21.

They actually tend to look at the national picture.

:41:22.:41:25.

Crucially, they also look at the party leaders.

:41:26.:41:28.

Back on the doorstep with Labour, and this lady says there's only one

:41:29.:41:31.

I want to say a bad decision, and no-one really understood,

:41:32.:41:36.

so I think ahead of this voting campaign people are actually

:41:37.:41:39.

going to need to know what they're voting for.

:41:40.:41:44.

So the party will try and build on their majority in this staunchly

:41:45.:41:47.

Some people down here were firmly against in the past,

:41:48.:41:54.

but we'll just see how it might have changed in the light

:41:55.:41:57.

Exactly, and, yeah, any people, really, any voter who lives

:41:58.:42:01.

in the constituency and has any issues.

:42:02.:42:03.

I think most Londoners will understand that it's happened

:42:04.:42:07.

and there no going back now - Article 50 has been triggered,

:42:08.:42:10.

and the question before us is, what does our future look like?

:42:11.:42:15.

How are we going to handle those negotiations over

:42:16.:42:20.

the next couple of years, and what are we going

:42:21.:42:23.

And while some Tories may still secretly be

:42:24.:42:29.

mourning their own Dave's sudden departure, they know that

:42:30.:42:31.

what comes next will in part be decided by who can

:42:32.:42:34.

mobilise their volunteers most effectively.

:42:35.:42:36.

It's amazing how many people are prepared to come out

:42:37.:42:42.

in the evenings after a long day at work and just slot things

:42:43.:42:45.

It's a very important election for us to win,

:42:46.:42:48.

Since Jeremy Corbyn was elected, we have had Momentum, which has

:42:49.:43:02.

increased the activist base enormously, so you must be welcoming

:43:03.:43:05.

what this could do to the campaign. Membership of the Labour Party has

:43:06.:43:12.

increased massively, we had good turnout in my constituency, it is

:43:13.:43:13.

difficult for me to judge what is going on across London, and as you

:43:14.:43:20.

rightly say we are formidable as a campaign machine and in an election

:43:21.:43:24.

like this, where Brexit is an issue, cost of living is an issue, those

:43:25.:43:28.

conversations on the doorstep will be very important, partly to get

:43:29.:43:34.

turnout up. It is tragic, I cannot think of the right word, but when

:43:35.:43:38.

you have seen such difficulty with your leader establishing a presence

:43:39.:43:42.

in terms of the polls or whatever else, this sort paradox here, this

:43:43.:43:45.

great fighting force potentially on the ground but what are you selling?

:43:46.:43:50.

We have clear policies today on the workplace, things that resonate very

:43:51.:43:55.

much in my constituency about protecting low paid workers,

:43:56.:43:58.

zero-hours and temporary contract and so on, they resonate with people

:43:59.:44:01.

and there is a danger that people like you and me, well-paid and in

:44:02.:44:10.

comfortable positions, don't see that. On the doorstep, the people I

:44:11.:44:13.

represent, I know that is an issue, and things like that, my party has

:44:14.:44:15.

very good policies. The strategy of Theresa May is so good, a lot of

:44:16.:44:19.

Conservative regions, like in London, etc, had no idea there would

:44:20.:44:23.

be an election, it is difficult to get the machinery up and running. It

:44:24.:44:28.

is taking a lot of effort across London for the Conservatives to get

:44:29.:44:31.

activists out on the street but we are determined to do that, we have

:44:32.:44:38.

hit the ground running, and on the doorstep people respect the Prime

:44:39.:44:41.

Minister and I think there is a positive response for a Government

:44:42.:44:47.

led by Theresa May, stable and in the national interest. Two years

:44:48.:44:53.

ago, everyone whipped themselves up against and the Conservatives were

:44:54.:44:58.

left with rocks, you still don't have candidates in a lot of places

:44:59.:45:03.

the seats. We have moved swiftly to select many places and get campaigns

:45:04.:45:08.

going. The reality is people need to turn out to vote Conservative

:45:09.:45:11.

because anything else could open the way for a coalition of kirrioss led

:45:12.:45:15.

by Jeremy Corbyn which would be a disaster for this country, if on the

:45:16.:45:20.

night to view Jeremy Corbyn was the one smiling on the steps of Downing

:45:21.:45:23.

Street I don't believe that would be in the national interest. Coalition

:45:24.:45:30.

of chaos, people are talking about progressive alliances, a candidate

:45:31.:45:35.

did not stand in Richmond Park when you won in the by-election,

:45:36.:45:40.

indication they might not stand this time, Liberal Democrats not standing

:45:41.:45:46.

against Caroline Lucas in Brighton, would you like to see a Liberal

:45:47.:45:50.

Democrat candidate standing aside in more places in London? They are

:45:51.:46:01.

specific examples, conversations took place and we agreed there was

:46:02.:46:05.

common ground that we both wanted to fight on and it made sense. I cannot

:46:06.:46:09.

say that is going to happen in every seat or that it always makes sense

:46:10.:46:16.

in every individual... Do you feel the Liberal Democrats will be

:46:17.:46:18.

serious here because you clearly have gained from it but it looks

:46:19.:46:22.

like the Greens are making the running in saying they are prepared

:46:23.:46:25.

to do it in more places, has the time come for you not to stand so

:46:26.:46:27.

many candidates, I think it is too soon to say. What

:46:28.:46:37.

is clear is the Liberal Democrats are the only party providing real

:46:38.:46:42.

opposition to the hard Brexit and if people want their voices heard they

:46:43.:46:46.

need to vote for the Liberal Democrat candidate. And Ukip are

:46:47.:46:52.

standing aside in Vauxhall to favour a Labour MP, Labour gaining from

:46:53.:46:57.

Ukip's decision. It is up to individual parties if they decide

:46:58.:47:01.

not to stand. I think we should stand in every seat and contest

:47:02.:47:11.

every seat. We should be putting our proposal clearly. It takes the

:47:12.:47:15.

choice out of the hands of the electorate. It looks like, Theresa

:47:16.:47:20.

Villiers, you will gain, you are in a Remain area, Ukip will not stand

:47:21.:47:25.

against you either. Do you feel happy benefiting from their active

:47:26.:47:29.

decision to stand aside so you can strengthen your position? I don't

:47:30.:47:35.

know what choices Ukip will make in relation to the Chipping Barnet

:47:36.:47:39.

constituency, it is entirely a matter for them, but this collection

:47:40.:47:43.

is not just about Brexit. One of the main reasons why we need a strong

:47:44.:47:47.

and secure government under Theresa May is to continue with economic

:47:48.:47:51.

stability. This Government has delivered roughly 1000 new jobs for

:47:52.:47:59.

every day we have been in office. We must not jeopardise that economic

:48:00.:48:02.

success, we still have a deficit to deal with. There's no way Jeremy

:48:03.:48:07.

Corbyn can cope with those kind of challenges. OK, let's move on, lots

:48:08.:48:09.

to get through. In 2015, the Lib Dems

:48:10.:48:12.

were reduced to one MP They've won one back of course -

:48:13.:48:14.

Sarah in Richmond Park And they are hoping they can do

:48:15.:48:18.

the same in other constituencies, especially those which voted Remain

:48:19.:48:22.

in the referendum. The last general election

:48:23.:48:24.

was pretty close to disaster Voters kicked out six

:48:25.:48:27.

of their seven MPs, including But two years and one referendum

:48:28.:48:31.

later, the former Business Secretary is campaigning to win back this

:48:32.:48:37.

almost aggressively pleasant corner With highly-educated,

:48:38.:48:40.

healthy and wealthy voters, this The reason for that is what happened

:48:41.:48:43.

just over the water here last December in the neighbouring

:48:44.:48:52.

Richmond Park constituency, where the Lib Dems in a by-election

:48:53.:48:54.

managed to kick out the then Tory MP Zac Goldsmith, who had had a massive

:48:55.:48:58.

majority of over 20,000 votes. The Lib Dems put it down

:48:59.:49:02.

to a lot of things, but one factor over others,

:49:03.:49:05.

and that was Brexit. The Lib Dems have tried to cast

:49:06.:49:10.

themselves as the party of the 48%, How much is this an

:49:11.:49:16.

election about Brexit? Well, it's starting off that way

:49:17.:49:23.

and we are willing to take it on on that basis,

:49:24.:49:26.

and Theresa May has argued that it is,

:49:27.:49:38.

but we have a fundamental The Lib Dems took us

:49:39.:49:40.

out doorknocking... ..To a street where almost

:49:41.:49:43.

miraculously, everybody seemed I think you were a very good

:49:44.:49:47.

local MP, and also... I'm glad to hear you

:49:48.:49:51.

are running again. Next stop, Twickenham Green,

:49:52.:49:56.

for Vince Cable's campaign launch I just want to say something

:49:57.:49:59.

about the bigger issues. We've just been out

:50:00.:50:04.

on the streets around here. A lot of support for us,

:50:05.:50:07.

a lot of it around the Remain issue, In a two-minute speech,

:50:08.:50:10.

one subject came up. ..Pursuing this very

:50:11.:50:17.

extreme form of Brexit... But there might be a problem

:50:18.:50:18.

with that here in Twickenham. The Conservative MP,

:50:19.:50:21.

Tania Mathias, also backed Remain. If Theresa May is in

:50:22.:50:23.

Government, you get someone The leaflets being handed out

:50:24.:50:35.

here focus on strong There's also no mention

:50:36.:50:38.

of the Lib Dems or Vince Cable, although they do talk about Jeremy

:50:39.:50:42.

Corbyn. Over a cup of tea,

:50:43.:50:45.

we talked about why. Because the simple fact

:50:46.:50:49.

is Number Ten, Downing Street on June 9th is either Theresa May

:50:50.:51:00.

walking in there or it's It's not going to be Tim Farron,

:51:01.:51:03.

and that's the reality, so I appreciate your point,

:51:04.:51:08.

but for people here, I want them to realise

:51:09.:51:10.

the vote is critical. But in Twickenham, doctors

:51:11.:51:19.

Mathias and Cable agree on many of the big local issues -

:51:20.:51:22.

both oppose Heathrow expansion and are concerned

:51:23.:51:25.

about cuts to school budgets. Without fundamental disagreement,

:51:26.:51:27.

the conversation on the doorstep turns to who would be more

:51:28.:51:28.

effective. I do believe if I'm part

:51:29.:51:37.

of the team, part of the Government, the party in power,

:51:38.:51:40.

I will represent our interests well. Without me, you have somebody

:51:41.:51:45.

on the opposition benches. Labour and the Greens will also be

:51:46.:51:48.

putting up candidates. Ukip have yet to decide,

:51:49.:51:58.

but the party many eyes will be on come June the 8th

:51:59.:52:03.

will be the Lib Dems, win back Twickenham,

:52:04.:52:05.

any hopes of a national revival Tanya Mattias trying very hard, but

:52:06.:52:18.

it is difficult there in Kingston were the Liberal Democrats want to

:52:19.:52:21.

get back in the strong Remain areas, do you accept it will be difficult

:52:22.:52:26.

to hold those seats? Is there will be a tough fight there but Tania

:52:27.:52:40.

Mathias is right, you could risk Jeremy Corbyn becoming Prime

:52:41.:52:42.

Minister in this country which would be a disaster. We have Tim Farron

:52:43.:52:47.

talking about cross-party co-operation, the Lib Dems would

:52:48.:52:51.

prop up a week and bumbling leader as Prime Minister in Jeremy Corbyn.

:52:52.:52:54.

And that's what they were going to do in the last prime -- general

:52:55.:53:05.

election... We are standing on our own manifesto with our own message

:53:06.:53:10.

to voters and a few vote Lib Dem you get the lid Dem member of Parliament

:53:11.:53:14.

and that will be somebody who will be a consistent opposition to

:53:15.:53:17.

Conservative Brexit plans. We are the only party consistently opposed

:53:18.:53:24.

to Brexit and that's what you get if you vote Liberal Democrat. The

:53:25.:53:27.

purity of a Liberal Democrat position on Brexit will make this

:53:28.:53:32.

very difficult. I think the Lib Dems have put all their eggs in one

:53:33.:53:36.

basket. We are seeing the cost of living go up and Theresa May has

:53:37.:53:41.

made a really big gamble. Even David Davis has acknowledged this

:53:42.:53:45.

negotiation in Europe will be the most difficult over. She has wasted

:53:46.:53:49.

several months, Parliament won't be properly up and running until autumn

:53:50.:53:53.

and there has to be some sort of deal in 18 months' time if there is

:53:54.:53:59.

any hope of Parliament having a say on it. People will be making

:54:00.:54:03.

decisions not just on Brexit, though that is clearly an issue. They will

:54:04.:54:08.

note that figures like Tony Blair is saying his position is closer to the

:54:09.:54:12.

Liberal Democrats on something like this and Labour voters could move

:54:13.:54:16.

heavily over to the Liberal Democrats in seats like yours.

:54:17.:54:19.

People are very loyal to their parties, of course we are going to

:54:20.:54:25.

see Brexit and Europe cut across party lines in different ways and in

:54:26.:54:30.

party lines in different ways. I voted against triggering Article 50,

:54:31.:54:36.

there were similar rebellions, in fact even the Lib Dems were not

:54:37.:54:40.

united in Parliament on this vote, not all of them voted for the Remain

:54:41.:54:45.

position they now advocate. We touched before that film on the fact

:54:46.:54:48.

this campaign group, the three campaign groups, yours is one of the

:54:49.:54:55.

seats in London. Eight of the 20 they are targeting with resources,

:54:56.:54:58.

with extra volunteers and so on, eight of them in London, one of them

:54:59.:55:03.

is yours, as I said in a Remain area. Are you concerned when they

:55:04.:55:09.

focus this kind of attention on you? It will be difficult. I will be

:55:10.:55:16.

campaigning hard on the basis of my record but also on the basis this is

:55:17.:55:21.

a clear choice. Do they want Theresa May as their Prime Minister or

:55:22.:55:25.

Jeremy Corbyn? But they will also look at Brexit and say we didn't

:55:26.:55:29.

want in this area, and it's not as if Theresa Villiers was one way or

:55:30.:55:33.

the other, you were very strong, part of the Leave campaign, and they

:55:34.:55:38.

may think my God, we didn't want to go there. We don't know exactly how

:55:39.:55:45.

the constituency voted, but there was a significant majority for

:55:46.:55:54.

Remain. So you'll think your constituents was a little less

:55:55.:55:59.

Remain? I speak to many voters on the doorstep who say that whilst

:56:00.:56:03.

they voted Remain, they feel a decision has been made and we need

:56:04.:56:08.

to get on with it. I want a settlement with our European

:56:09.:56:13.

partners, a deep and special partnership which hopefully the

:56:14.:56:15.

majority of Leave and Remain voters... We have this on the Public

:56:16.:56:22.

Accounts Committee, no detail from government about what the

:56:23.:56:26.

negotiations are about. And you think Jeremy Corbyn is going to do

:56:27.:56:31.

better? You are the party in Government so you should have had a

:56:32.:56:35.

plan when this happened and there is still no plant one year after the

:56:36.:56:40.

referendum. Did you vote for the no-confidence resolution in Jeremy

:56:41.:56:44.

Corbyn or didn't you? My record is clear on that but he is our leader.

:56:45.:56:52.

In spite of it, it picks up on what Theresa Villiers has said, in spite

:56:53.:56:57.

of him being a Brexiteer, one of Theresa May's colleagues, Zac

:56:58.:57:04.

Goldsmith, a Remain orientated Conservative Party have brought him

:57:05.:57:07.

back this week which indicates they are thinking about who delivers the

:57:08.:57:11.

best deal. The decision has been made, which would spell trouble for

:57:12.:57:18.

you, wouldn't it? Firstly I was very surprised they selected Zac

:57:19.:57:21.

Goldsmith. He stood down in October because he didn't want to be part of

:57:22.:57:25.

a party that supported Heathrow expansion. We went through the

:57:26.:57:29.

expense of a by-election because he made that decision, and now six

:57:30.:57:34.

months later, although Tory policy on Heathrow expansion hasn't

:57:35.:57:38.

changed, suddenly it is OK for him to be a Tory again and there is a

:57:39.:57:44.

great deal of irritation in the constituency that he has put local

:57:45.:57:47.

voters through that. But they have decided, they have seen something,

:57:48.:57:50.

fair enough the decision has been made and they've invited him back,

:57:51.:57:56.

they must think he's a winner. I don't know what they think to be

:57:57.:58:00.

honest. To pick up on the point you were making about needing to get on

:58:01.:58:03.

with it, it is clear what Theresa May is asking for is a blank cheque.

:58:04.:58:10.

She has no plan as to how she plans to deliver Brexit, and all she wants

:58:11.:58:14.

is a blank cheque from the electorate so that anything she does

:58:15.:58:17.

over the next five years she can claim she has a mandate for and it's

:58:18.:58:21.

very important we have a strong opposition in the Commons so we can

:58:22.:58:25.

continue to challenge and scrutinise. She has made it clear

:58:26.:58:29.

she doesn't want opposition. Can I pick up on the Zac Goldsmith point

:58:30.:58:37.

here, because you supported him in the by-election. How was it that he

:58:38.:58:40.

can go back not as an independent but as a Conservative candidate?

:58:41.:58:46.

Because he is the strongest possible champion for Richmond. He's been a

:58:47.:58:50.

hugely effective local campaigner, he cares deeply about the place. He

:58:51.:58:55.

threw out his time in Parliament was always ready to question the

:58:56.:58:58.

Government, to challenge the front bench. He was always one standing

:58:59.:59:03.

up, defending the interests of Richmond on all sorts of issues. He

:59:04.:59:09.

would be undoubtedly... It is worth saying this is what he said. He was

:59:10.:59:13.

trying to claim circumstances had changed. This is what he said after

:59:14.:59:18.

he was selected this week. I think the circumstances of this election

:59:19.:59:21.

are very different to the circumstances of the by-election,

:59:22.:59:25.

that was a one-off opportunity caused by my resignation over

:59:26.:59:29.

Heathrow but it gave people an opportunity to express their rage

:59:30.:59:32.

about the outcome of the referendum and it was an opportunity they

:59:33.:59:35.

weren't to going miss. No matter how much I spoke about Heathrow, people

:59:36.:59:40.

wanted to talk about Brexit which is understandable but I didn't have a

:59:41.:59:44.

choice. I knew it would be difficult, if it had been a

:59:45.:59:46.

calculated decision I wouldn't have done it but I don't think

:59:47.:59:50.

politicians should break their promises. The point is he will have

:59:51.:59:55.

the full backing of the Conservatives, the machinery. It's

:59:56.:59:59.

ridiculous, nothing substantial has changed. We are still heading for a

:00:00.:00:04.

hard Brexit and of anything we have more information about Theresa May's

:00:05.:00:06.

plans to leave the single market than we did at the time of the

:00:07.:00:11.

by-election. You have got to admire the dedication, to risk going back

:00:12.:00:14.

for selection, they might have rejected him. I won't comment on the

:00:15.:00:19.

selection process but Heathrow, the Tories are trying to promote this

:00:20.:00:23.

strong and stable leadership, they haven't even got the courage to put

:00:24.:00:27.

their actual position on Heathrow in the manifesto so it is hardly strong

:00:28.:00:31.

government being offered. It's actually give us a blank cheque and

:00:32.:00:35.

we will take the mandate that we want. To all three of you, thank

:00:36.:00:39.

you. Andrew, back to you. So, how will Thursday's local

:00:40.:00:51.

election results affect Who's winning the

:00:52.:00:53.

election ground war? And as he celebrates 100

:00:54.:00:56.

days in the White House, We have the local elections, Metro

:00:57.:01:13.

elections in Liverpool, greater Birmingham, West Midlands, how will

:01:14.:01:18.

they play into the general election? Significantly, it is very unusual.

:01:19.:01:21.

People keep comparing this with the election in 83, not! Margaret

:01:22.:01:26.

Thatcher was nervous and to wait until after the local elections to

:01:27.:01:30.

call the election to see the result. We are getting these result in the

:01:31.:01:34.

middle of an election campaign so it will be important, whoever does

:01:35.:01:40.

badly will suffer a dent in confidence in terms of how they

:01:41.:01:43.

approach the election and we are also going to have mayoral figures

:01:44.:01:48.

as a reminder of another big difference with the 80s that however

:01:49.:01:53.

big, say, the Conservatives win in Westminster, there are now sectors

:01:54.:01:57.

of power in other parts of the United Kingdom which were not there

:01:58.:02:00.

in the 80s. One of the reasons niches that are rated in 83 was

:02:01.:02:05.

memories were still alive in political circles of 1970, Wilson

:02:06.:02:10.

saw the local election results and thought, I can win, he was told he

:02:11.:02:15.

would win by the Economist magazine, who had done the analysis, and of

:02:16.:02:19.

course he lost, so that is why she waited, Mrs May does not need to

:02:20.:02:27.

wait for that at all now, and on the Metro elections, the one she will be

:02:28.:02:30.

looking at is the West Midlands, that is the one that is a

:02:31.:02:34.

competition. I think she can really lose on Thursday in the local

:02:35.:02:37.

elections, governing parties are supposed to take effect again,

:02:38.:02:42.

losing lots of council seats. She is projected to put on 100 or so seats,

:02:43.:02:48.

Labour projected to lose around 200, the first time the main opposition

:02:49.:02:52.

party has shed seats since something like 83 so clearly the local

:02:53.:02:55.

elections give Mrs May great momentum going into the general

:02:56.:02:59.

election campaign but there is a downside in that, which is what we

:03:00.:03:02.

have already heard fighting about this morning, if it looks like it is

:03:03.:03:08.

going too well for the Tories, it says to voters, why bother turning

:03:09.:03:12.

up? Sushi comes up with totally unbelievable sound bites this

:03:13.:03:15.

morning that this is the most important general election in her

:03:16.:03:21.

lifetime. Really?! For her it is! It always is until the next one! I

:03:22.:03:28.

wonder if voter turnout is a problem? Tory voters are more likely

:03:29.:03:32.

to vote than Labour voters. If there is a sense that it is all over bar

:03:33.:03:38.

the shouting, the overall turnout will be low that Tory voters are

:03:39.:03:42.

still likely to turn out more than Labour voters so she would still win

:03:43.:03:46.

some. I don't think she needs to be too worried, I think there will be a

:03:47.:03:51.

significantly low turnout, even I am finding it hard to be that excited

:03:52.:03:58.

about this general election. Really, the policies, we have spent a lot of

:03:59.:04:02.

time talking about them today and we have to examine them, but all this

:04:03.:04:07.

is about is, do you want Theresa May or Jeremy Corbyn in Number Ten?

:04:08.:04:11.

Those are the only question is, apart from possibly how strong do

:04:12.:04:14.

you feel about Brexit, that will be on the voters' minds. You may say

:04:15.:04:20.

that but I will not be put off from going through a list of policies

:04:21.:04:24.

that we have already had in the last 24 hours. On the Conservatives, more

:04:25.:04:31.

powers to stop company bosses under pensions, of course Philip Green was

:04:32.:04:38.

in mind there. Labour has come up with quite a few policies, actually,

:04:39.:04:43.

give all work of equal rights, whether part-time or full-time,

:04:44.:04:52.

temporary or permanent. Ukip, scrap VAT or takeaway -- on takeaway food

:04:53.:04:57.

and end the BBC licence fee. The Liberal Democrats have come out

:04:58.:05:03.

posed to the runway at Heathrow. I thought I knew that already? Will

:05:04.:05:10.

any of these policies make a difference? They are all nice handy

:05:11.:05:16.

things that people quite liked but probably not, is the answer. They

:05:17.:05:20.

are an awful way away from polling day now for people to remember and

:05:21.:05:24.

latch onto. I don't think you make your mind up on small issues like

:05:25.:05:30.

Heathrow, unless you live in Richmond-upon-Thames, maybe, but the

:05:31.:05:33.

problem Labour have got with unfailing a lot of these retail type

:05:34.:05:37.

policies which, in themselves, are very popular, is no one will listen

:05:38.:05:42.

to them until they get over the leadership credibility issue. Jeremy

:05:43.:05:46.

Corbyn could the world on a stick, but if no one believes he can

:05:47.:05:49.

deliver it then he will not be listened to and he has not done much

:05:50.:05:52.

apart from a speech yesterday in which is claim to fame was getting

:05:53.:05:56.

arrested, I don't see how that would work for him getting to Number Ten.

:05:57.:06:02.

They are not making progress on it. Labour has rolled out a number of

:06:03.:06:08.

policies which, taken individually, would have certain traction in

:06:09.:06:13.

normal times, quite interesting ideas, this sense of unfairness, a

:06:14.:06:16.

feeling that ordinary workers have not done well out of the recovery,

:06:17.:06:22.

those who caused the crash have, 20 points, I went through some of them

:06:23.:06:25.

earlier, putting aside they are not costed, we are assured they will be.

:06:26.:06:30.

The problem I suggest is not the costing but the cut through? Every

:06:31.:06:36.

election has a context which is determined by opinion polls, however

:06:37.:06:40.

sceptical we are these days, and if one party is way ahead it is

:06:41.:06:43.

difficult for the other party to appear relevant, because if people

:06:44.:06:49.

assume they are not going to win, even some of its own MPs are saying,

:06:50.:06:53.

we are not going to win this, so you can vote for us, it is very hard to

:06:54.:07:00.

get attention and relevance. Where I think all the parties are bad with

:07:01.:07:04.

their current leaders is framing arguments, so those policies you

:07:05.:07:10.

have highlighted makes sense. The best leaders are brilliant framers

:07:11.:07:13.

of an argument and neither Theresa Maynor Jeremy Corbyn R. They have

:07:14.:07:20.

been campaigning, their manifestos are not out yet, both sides have

:07:21.:07:24.

been telling us we have to wait for costings, but it has not stopped

:07:25.:07:28.

them campaigning. Let's remind you of where they have been and what

:07:29.:07:33.

they have been doing so far. Let's start with Jeremy Corbyn, his

:07:34.:07:38.

first official visit was in the ultra-marginal Conservative seat of

:07:39.:07:42.

Croydon Central where the MP Gavin Barwell has a lead of just 165. That

:07:43.:07:47.

is not the only Conservative seat he has visited, along the way he popped

:07:48.:07:51.

in on Bristol North West, a Conservative majority of nearly

:07:52.:07:58.

5000. The Tory seat of Cardiff North, a lead of just over 2000,

:07:59.:08:05.

Warrington South, just over 2700, and Crewe and Nantwich, Tory

:08:06.:08:10.

majority of three and a half thousand. Yesterday he visited

:08:11.:08:15.

Bethnal greed and Bob, a Labour lead of 20 4000. Theresa May kicked off

:08:16.:08:21.

her campaign in Bolton, Labour majority of over 4000. On her way

:08:22.:08:26.

round the UK she had a comfy stop in her own maidenhead seat, where she

:08:27.:08:30.

is defending a majority of nearly 30,000, before travelling to other

:08:31.:08:34.

Labour marginals including Dudley North, a Labour lead of 4000.

:08:35.:08:41.

Bridgend, a lead of just under 2004 Labour, before becoming ambitious

:08:42.:08:42.

and visiting shadow minister Richard Bergen's Leeds East seat, which he

:08:43.:08:58.

won by over 12,500 votes. Yesterday she went north of the border to

:08:59.:09:01.

Aberdeenshire, where amongst other places she visited the SNP seat of

:09:02.:09:03.

West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine, where the Tories would have to gain

:09:04.:09:04.

over 7000 votes to unseat the NP. What do you make of it all so far?

:09:05.:09:12.

It is remarkable she is doing these visits in Scotland. Past but even

:09:13.:09:16.

five years and the idea of a Tory Prime Minister going round Scotland

:09:17.:09:19.

would be utterly counter-productive, and actually they are ambitious for

:09:20.:09:24.

Scotland now under with Davidson, a prospect of multiple seats, and that

:09:25.:09:28.

would be a real genuine shift in Scottish politics, the likes of

:09:29.:09:31.

which we have not seen for 15 or 20 years. If she gets that, that helps

:09:32.:09:41.

towards 100 seats, because if she wins ten in Scotland, it is

:09:42.:09:46.

effectively 20, the SNP lose ten, she gains ten, she wants to do that

:09:47.:09:50.

in the Midlands with Labour, and the North. To get the 100 majority,

:09:51.:09:56.

other than Scotland, she has to win Labour seats, that is all that is

:09:57.:10:01.

there. And clearly she has been told, it is obvious, that she has a

:10:02.:10:05.

chance of doing so, otherwise you don't go to these parts of the

:10:06.:10:08.

country in the first few days of the campaign. All logic points to her

:10:09.:10:13.

being able to pull it off as well. The opinion polls, the state of the

:10:14.:10:18.

Labour Party. The only qualification I have in this is that politics is

:10:19.:10:22.

so wild and free Braille at the moment, it doesn't feel like

:10:23.:10:29.

landslide to rain. That is true, it doesn't. It is early days, we

:10:30.:10:35.

haven't yet had the manifestos, the campaign is yet to gather momentum.

:10:36.:10:38.

It doesn't feel like landslide territory. I disagree, look at every

:10:39.:10:47.

single poll, the Tory lead is 10% in Wales, you can see her picking up 20

:10:48.:10:52.

seat there. Put this together, I am told by the way she is going into

:10:53.:10:56.

traditional Labour heartland again tomorrow, the key is the Ukip vote.

:10:57.:11:02.

That will implode... Crumble towards Tories? If she can hoover that up

:11:03.:11:21.

and retain the Tory vote, she will have a majority of 150.

:11:22.:11:22.

I cannot let you go without reminding you that it is Donald

:11:23.:11:22.

Trump's 100 days. He's not making a lot of it now, this is what he said

:11:23.:11:23.

last night. We are just beginning in our fight

:11:24.:11:25.

to make America great again. Now, before we talk about my first

:11:26.:11:28.

100 days, which has been very exciting and very productive,

:11:29.:11:37.

let's rate the media's 100 days. Because, as you know,

:11:38.:11:42.

they are a disgrace. There you go, still bashing the

:11:43.:12:02.

media, that was at a rally in Virginia, the 100 days was last

:12:03.:12:07.

night. He seems happier campaigning than running the country. You each

:12:08.:12:10.

have 20 seconds to give me your board on the first 100 days.

:12:11.:12:19.

Remarkable, he will not stop slagging off the media but America

:12:20.:12:24.

first has not meant America first in terms of national policy, he has

:12:25.:12:27.

reneges on what he said about Nato being obsolete. He is moving from

:12:28.:12:32.

the old right to the centre because that is where you get things done,

:12:33.:12:40.

he is a pragmatist, also is about's friend Nigel Parrott is no longer

:12:41.:12:46.

welcome, we read this morning! Allegedly! He loves campaigning but

:12:47.:12:51.

finds governing much more difficult. Who would have thought being

:12:52.:12:55.

president of the United States was a difficult job?! He loves rallies but

:12:56.:12:59.

being president and politics is a very difficult thing indeed. Thank

:13:00.:13:05.

you, there we go, Mr Trump's 100 days, we will see what the next 100

:13:06.:13:06.

brings. The Daily Politics is back

:13:07.:13:09.

on BBC Two after the bank holiday on Tuesday at midday,

:13:10.:13:12.

with all the latest And I'll be back here

:13:13.:13:14.

on BBC One next Sunday Remember - if it's Sunday,

:13:15.:13:18.

it's the Sunday Politics.

:13:19.:13:28.

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