28/04/2013 Sunday Politics North East and Cumbria

In the North East and Cumbria: The towns and cities hardest hit by

cuts. And, we're on the campaign trail in South Shields as the by-

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2288 seconds

election campaign enters its final Hello and a warm welcome to your

local part of the show. With just four days to go until the county

council elections, the big hitters have been in the North. The Prime

Minister, David Cameron, met workers at the Pirelli tyre plant

in Carlisle on Friday as part of a rapid run through Cumbria. While

Liberal Democrat leader, Nick Clegg, was focussing on the contest in

Northumberland with a campaign visit to Berwick. But we're

concentrating on a different election this week - the contest to

be David Miliband's successor as MP for South Shields. With me in the

studio to discuss that - and the rest of the week's news - North-

East Euro MP Martin Callanan and the MP for Hartlepool, Iain Wright.

Let's start briefly with Hartlepool. It was named in new research this

week as the North East town that's been worst-hit by the cuts. Doesn't

this tell us what we already knew that basically Hartlepool was too

dependent on the public sector at the start of this process so it's

not surprising? I don't think it does say that. It shows and

demonstrates very vividly the failure of Government economic

policy at the moment. You can't have the public sector working in

isolation with the private sector, that's not how a modern economy

works and the whole of the North is feeling the effect of that, but

particularly Hartlepool. We are losing with a combination of

welfare cuts, cuts to local Government and other Government

contracts being lost, losing in the region of about �725 per person,

that's having a huge impact on the private sector and we are seeing

that with rising unemployment. list that includes Hartlepool also

high up in that list, Middlesbrough, Sunderland, it shows areas already

deprived are the ones being hit the worst by your policies. Well, it's

a consequence of the fact that those areas have high levels of

public sector dependency, high levels of welfare, etc, when we are

having to take painful decisions to get the national books in order

from a deficit that Labour left us with, obviously those areas will

suffer disproportionately. We need to get people off welfare, get them

into work, into the private sector so they're not dependent on public

sector handouts in the future. Thank you very much.

Now, there's a by-election in South Shields next week. But careful you

don't blink or you might miss the entire campaign. It's one of the

shortest ever - which means the nine candidates don't have much

time to grab the attention of South Tyneside's voters. I went to find

out how the race to succeed David Miliband is shaping up. Got a pen

and Heathrow Airport handy? Prepare to take note of the Labour by-

election victory recipe. Take a smattering of activists, a sprinkle

of Shadow Cabinet stardust, a very local candidate and mar inaid over

a short campaign. This could be seen as a contrast to campaigns for

Labour's previous MP, a man who arrived with no connection to the

town. Yet now in this by-election how local each candidate is really

seems to matter, even down to what they might have got up to with

their bucket and spade on the beaches. Here on her campaign

website is Labour's Emma Lewell- Buck enjoying fun on the beach. Is

she saying she would make a better MP than David Miliband because she

was born and bred in the area? at all. MPs bring different things

to the role and David was a different kind of MP to what I will

probably be. People in the area already know me, I am local, I was

born here and spent my life in Tyneside, people know I will be a

strong voice for them and will fight for them in Westminster if I

am successful. Almost every door I have knocked on people have been

excited to meet me. They're going to come out and vote. They're

fighting on the beaches here. Conservative Karen Allen, also born

and bred in South Shields is using the bucket and spade, to win people

over, too. Is knowing every grain of sand here that vital? It's

important that you understand who you are selecting, who you want to

be your MP. I wanted to reach out and a a personal level. On the back

of that leaflet my policies are there in black and white, the hard

facts of what I would like to do for this town. No, I found it

useful for people to connect with me and it is important where I am

from and I want to share that. those with more tenuous connections

can't resist playing the local card. Lib Dem Hugh Annand says his

relative ran the local paper, 125 years ago. He now lives in

Hertfordshire. He sees that as a positive. People in the town feel

they are neglected by politicians in London. I think coming in as an

outside Eric be that link -- as an outsider, I can be the link for the

political bubble in London and local people up here and represent

the entire constituency in that way without focusing on one particular

neighbourhood, for example. UKIP don't have much political history

in this town. Their candidate does live nearby, though. He has a

growing confidence he might be able to spoil that Labour recipe.

They've given these various parties a chance over the decades and none

have done what they said they were going to do. The people feel

neglected. They've become disillusioned with the main parties.

They're looking to UKIP for a fresh start. A party which has common

sense policies, which resonate with the average ordinary working man

and woman in the street. Given this is the shortest by-election

campaign for 70 years, it will be tough for anyone new to build much

momentum. That may turn out to be good news for Labour, but is it

good for democracy? And in addition to the parties

featured in our report, there's five other candidates fighting

Leaving aside the merits of the candidates we saw is it fair to

make voters make a decision in a campaign of less than - over a

fortnight? It's difficult, sometimes parties are dammed if do

you and dammed if you don't. My by- election in 2004 was 12 weeks long.

I remember it well! People complain it was too long. Given the piece

about the North being hardest hit by Government cuts it's right we

have a representative in South Shields fighting for South Shields

and to do that as quickly as possible. Other candidates say they

were doing the same. Having a quick by-election to ensure a

representative is there fighting is important. If aud postal vote, you

almost have to post it off almost as soon as the election is declared.

I have been to South Shields to campaign for Emma and have seen the

great work she's doing. She is a great local candidate. We haven't

got all the representatives here. It's important that South Shields

has a representative in parliament as quickly as possible. This is

fair game, this is tactics all parties will pursue, go for a short

campaign it makes it difficult for any opponent to get any headway?

That's why the Labour Party are doing it, of course. We know how

strong the Labour Party are in South Shields and south Tyneside.

You would do it in a Conservative area. We probably would, to be fair.

They want the campaign as quickly as possible. On the same day as

local elections in Northumberland and Durham and it prevents other

parties, we are all campaigning in those elections and prevents us

bringing activists from other parts of the regions to help, etc. So, I

suppose it's fair political tactics, we know what the Labour Party are

up to here. Is there scope for setting a minimum time for a by-

election campaign beyond a couple of weeks so so this doesn't happen

again. It's difficult to do that. To a certain extent I agree with

Ian, in some campaigns, certainly the one in Eastleigh in recent

weeks people were refusing to open the door, blocking letterboxes

because there was so much literature through them. You have

to get the balance right. People get sick of it sometimes and low

turnouts demonstrate that. The tradition is that the party who

holds the seat gets to choose when the by-election is within a

reasonable period of time and we know what the Labour Party are up

to here. All the candidates in South Shields have made a big play

of their local connections, either small or big. But if all

constitutes think that way, you don't get Tony Blairs or David

Milibands, it's short-sighted, isn't it? I don't think that is the

case. Candidates put themselves forward and think of different

strengths that they can provide for the electorate and I saw this

replacing Peter Mandelson in Hartlepool. People want different

things at different times. So to have a huge-hitter like David

Miliband was important. But equally, people want to see local, strong,

passionate campaigners from the area, as well. Will this result say

anything about either your fortunes or Labour's fortunes? I think it

will say something if the Labour Party lost, which would be a

political earthquake, hopefully will happen. Probably won't, though.

History is by-elections don't provide much information. They are

short, intense periods. People know they're not choosing a Government.

They use them often to send a message to the parties. Turnout is

very low. People don't really engage with them. They're great

sport for us politicians but I suspect don't give us a long-term

message. Will it say anything about the wide irpolitical situation?

will send a message to Government in the North - I am hoping we do

win, I think it will send a message that the policies are not working

for the north-east and they really need to think again and think about

an economic policy based upon jobs and growth. We will leave it there

and see what the result is on Thursday.

And if all that has whetted your appetite for the cut and thrust of

the by-election and you'd like to put some questions of your own,

there's a chance to do just that in South Shields tomorrow morning when

we'll be putting the main party candidates in the Look North "hot

seat". That's in South Shields near the marketplace from 11.00am.

I'll be there too to ensure fair play!

Now it's less than a month since people living in social housing had

to start paying for their spare rooms - what the Government calls

the under-occupancy charge and its critics described as the bedroom

tax. But it's already having an impact. Legal advice centres say

they're being deluged with new work. But tougher rules on Legal Aid mean

most people won't qualify for financial help to appeal against

the decision. Megan Paterson reports from Cumbria. Chris has

lived in this flat in Carlisle for 18 months. The Government says he

is underoccupying so his housing benefit has been cut and by the end

of this month he will owe his landlord money he will struggle to

pay back. This is the main bedroom. The flat has two bedrooms, one for

Chris and the other is a occasionally used if friends stay.

He has been told to let that room out if he is struggling with rent

and if he doesn't do that, he should move. But Chris is a

recovering alcoholic and he fears finding somewhere else to live

could unsettle his progress. It's difficult for me because with being

a recovering alcoholic I find that I have got myself settled in this

area and I feel like the upheaval of moving again could cause me to

relapse because it's a stressful thing to do moving house, if I was

forced to have a lodger I couldn't have somebody who was a drinker, so

there would be restrictions because if they were drinking in my flat it

could lead to me relapsing again. In theory, Chris could appeal his

underoccupiesancy case with the Department for Work and Pensions.

But he can't afford to do that. Last month, that appeal could have

been paid for with legal aid. But on the 1st April the Government

withdrew funding for all non- serious civil cases so that means

for people like Chris legal aid isn't an option any more. It's

important that we all understand... Charities specialising in social

welfare say the changes to legal aid mean the help they would have

once given to solve situations like Chris's are tkrasically limited --

drastically limited. Employment disappeared, debt advice

disappeared, welfare benefits advice disappeared. Housing was

reduced down to just the most acute cases of imminent homelessness. For

us that means that we used to be able to offer people indepth

specialist advice across that piece and look at their problem

holistically and help every aspect. Now to do a funded piece of

casework for a client we need to wait until they are facing an

imminent threat of homelessness. According to the minute is tree of

-- Ministry of Justice support is still available if people's lives

and homes are at risk. 1.7 billion a year will still be spent on legal

aid and a further �65 million has been budgeted to help charities

adapt to funding changes over the next two years.

The MOJ says charities can't afford budgetry constraints impacting

councils and Government departments. Still there's concern that under

the current reductions charities don't have money needed now help

deal with demand. Cumbria's already seen the closure of one CAB office

due to financial difficulties. think all of the welfare reforms

that the Government is trying to bring in needed, however, I think

they have dramatically miscalculated the impact of those

reforms on individuals and also on the agencies they're relying on to

support individuals through these changes. Unless something is done

soon to put additional resources in to the agencies who are helping put

the reforms through, it's likely the whole thing will collapse like

a pack of cards. It's a tsunami heading towards us and it's

terrifying. The verdict from the Citizens

Advice Bureau in Copeland. A tsunami, perfect storm really.

Biggest benefit changes in generations and doubts the advice

services that could provide help for these people and cuts to legal

aid to prevent people being able to appeal. First of all, you don't

need professional legal help, you don't need a solicitor to appeal

against these decisions. Tkoubg it yourself. -- you can do it yourself.

It's a straightforward process, why should the the taxpayer pay for

people to appeal when they could do it themselves. We have the most

generous legal aid system anywhere in Europe and the deficit that we

have requires some difficult decisions to be made and we have to

start getting those bills down a bit. We still are going to have the

most generous system even after these savings have been made. Going

on to the benefits changes themselves, we need to get this

into perspective. This charge has already applied to people that have

private landlords for many years and why should taxpayers pay for

something they can't afford themselves? �1.7 billion still

spent on legal aid. The bill was over �2 billion, it's fair enough

to save money? It's fair enough to save money and Government should

always look to see where they can make efficiencies, but this is

targeting the poorest and most vulnerable. Martin says tkoubg it

by yourself, actually some people who will have to appeal aren't in a

position to be defend themselves and the job of a good civilised

welfare state is to make sure that the legal system is not just the

preserve of the rich and elite. legal system is not the same as the

benefits system. This is not a court of law. This is just asking

the department for welfare to look again at a decision they've made.

It's a simple straightforward process. You don't have to get

professional legal help. Your Government is cutting every avenue,

whether it's Citizens Advice Bureau, whether it's debt advice, whether

it's the legal aid budget at a time when these biggest welfare changes

for a generation are taking place and they are being targeted at the

poorest and most vulnerable in our communities. We take the view that

you have to get fundamental welfare reform through that makes it

worthwhile for people to work and for taxpayers to continue paying

those bills. The Labour Party might believe they can continue spending

until it was going out of fashion but the raeplt is the -- reality is

the country was bankrupt. We have to make savings and it requires

difficult decisions. Would it have been sensible to spend money making

sure Citizens Advice Bureaus were geared up to get people - these are

your rights, you may not get a lawyer but tkoubg this. -- but

tkoubg this. -- but you can do this. Anybody facing homelessness is

still able to access professional help. They can still get that paid

for and legal aid. But we are saying in some cases people should

be prepared to fill in a simple form and appeal themselves, rather

than using these professional services. Aren't you on the wrong

side of the argument with the public? A lot of the public will

think I don't mind �350 million off this bill, when a lot is being

handed to lawyers? That's a fair point. But no one says that

actually when they're saying I would want to see savings in the

NHS because the pay is going on nurses. Most people class lawyers

as being different from nurses! Certainly I can understand that

argument, of course I can. But it's coming down to a fundamental plank

of Government policy which is let's cut support, let's cut help for the

most poorest and most vulnerable in our societies, whilst at the same

time giving a tax cut for millionaires that could have helped

pay... Briefly come back on that. What he said is not true. The tax

cut he talks about was less than the tax rate that applied under 13

years almost of Labour Party Government. What we are doing is

taking sensible structured approaches to welfare which says

that people should always be better off in work, rather than out of

work. Ian should support his constituents being in work rather

than being dependent on the welfare state. We have to leave it there

and debate about unemployment another day.

Now, if the local election campaign leaflets don't always make much

sense to you, spare a thought for people in Eden who had reason to

scratch their heads when a leaflet from the local Tories landed on

their doormat. Here's Megan with that - and some good news on the

jobs front - in our regular round- up of the week's news in 60 seconds.

The BAE systems factory in Newcastle has been acquired by the

Rhys group, 500 employees will be based at the former Armstrong works.

More good Newsround in Darlington where the -- more good news in

Darlington. Local MP praised the role played by

Darlington Council in keeping jobs in the town. These jobs were

important to the town. It's managed to stack up a very good business

case that persuaded the department to stay so I am very proud of that

council today. MPs have criticised a pay-off to the chief executive of

Cumbria Council. Carlisle MP John Stevenson raised the issue with the

Prime Minister. Would the Prime Minister agree this and similar

arrangements are difficult for the public to accept and are certainly

not good news for taxpayers' money? Finally, an election leaflet with a

difference. Householders were left puzzled when they received this

leaflet in Latin. Perhaps it was written by Michael

Gove! Now they may have fallen behind

UKIP in the publicity stakes, but the Greens believe they can make

some headlines of their own at this month's elections. And preferably

not in Latin. The party is contesting nearly 900 seats across

the country with significant numbers standing for election in

County Durham and Cumbria. So what can the Greens offer voters? With

me, from South Tyneside Greens, Shirley Ford. What's your realistic

target here? At the moment you don't have any councillors in any

of these councils as I understand, will it be a success just to poll

respectively or to win seats? are aiming to win seats,

particularly in Cumbria where we haveish aoufs -- issues like the

nuclear waste storage, in Yorkshire, in Durham, that's where we are

really realistically focusing. We will be delighted if we poll well

because these - a lot of these candidates, particularly County

Durham, are young, enthusiastic people who care about making a

difference and want to be elect and a couple have already been elected

as town councillors so we are on the way. I did look to see on the

the Green Party website to see if there was a manifesto, I have to be

honest, I struggled to find it. How are people supposed to vote if they

don't know what you stand for? it comes to local elections it is

very much our local parties that are putting their campaigns out

there. So County Durham have their own manifesto on their own website

which is a fantastic four-page document, they've really thought

through the policies they think will make a real difference to

boost the campaign. It's not just about manifestoes on websites,

though, it's going out there door- knocking, talking to people.

Campaigning. I will leave that to you. What is then the central plank

of how you tackle the biggest challenge for councils, which is

they are having to manage with less money? They are having to manage

with less money. But it is about what do you with with that money,

the priorities. What we are saying right across all of the County

elections is that the priorities that have been there for spending -

for investing in the wrong wrong kind of development on the green

belt, things like this, roads, these are the wrong priorities and

we need to be investing in jobs, local shops on high streets are -

bring in more jobs. How do you do that as councils? They can do a lot

to support markets and high streets as opposed to putting up money to

lure in developers for big out of town retail. Councils are spending

money. They're borrowing money. It's borrowing money for the wrong

priorities. Aren't they creating jobs with that? Very few. If you

look at the difference and it's not looking at the jobs they destroy in

high streets that we currently have. They're more job intensive. Thank

you very much. That's about it from us. Those

county council votes aren't being counted until Friday morning - so

stay tuned to your BBC local radio station and Look North for all

those results. There's full coverage throughout Friday on the

News Channel, too. And I'll be up all night on Thursday bringing you

the result of the South Shields by- election. I'll be tweeting regular

updates from the count, too. We're back same time, same place next