14/07/2013 Sunday Politics North East and Cumbria


14/07/2013

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In the North East and Cumbria: How should Labour change its relations

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with the trade unions? And plans to allow mining deep under

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the National Park in North Yorkshire. Will it create jobs or

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Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2220 seconds

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local part of the show, our final one before the summer break. Before

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we hand out the ice lollies, there is a busy political week to get

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through with my guests, North East Euro MP Hughes and Redcar MP Ian

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Swales. Coming up, 1000 jobs at stake as planners decide whether to

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allow mining deep under the North York Moors National Park. Is it an

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economic lifeline or could kill off tourism? We will also be talking

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about zero hours contracts in the NHS, are they a way of dodging basic

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employment rights? Let's start on this Miners' Gala

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weekend with Labour's relationship with the trade unions, Ed Miliband

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has promised big and historic changes. Stephen Hughes, you are a

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committed trade unionist. Do you agree there is a need to change

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Labour's relationship with the unions? It has opened peoples eyes

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to what goes on in the political parties. The stories we have seen

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coming out of Falkirk. We need to modernise the relationship. The

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links with the trade unions are vital. I think it is only right that

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the trade unions should not be automatically signed up, they should

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have the right to make choices as to whether they want their affiliation

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fee to go to a particular party or not. That is one thing that Labour

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has promised. And also the editor of primaries and selection of

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candidates where MPs are standing down, but my be a good positive

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development as well. I'd like unions wielded somewhat power over

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selection of a posse. -- policy. The relationship between the trade union

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and the Labour Party as was been positive. We have had a system of

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affiliation fees, unions balloting on is whether they want political

:40:25.:40:34.
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funds or not. But the unions were able to influence the selection.

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need to revitalise the Labour Party and we need to make sure the trade

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unions want to sign up. One of the things he said was he wants to boots

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-- boost this, doing crib -- to increase considerably. Why should

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never be ashamed about being influenced by the very organisation

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that was there at the start of the Labour Party two -- why should

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Labour be ashamed. Time has moved on. In 2010, more people voted, more

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trade unionists voted Conservative or a Lib Dem band voted Labour. The

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relationship has been breaking down for a long time. And the public do

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not want to see vested interests involved in candidate selection or

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policy formulation, whether it is big business or trade unions.

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you perhaps get a chance for the union members to subscribe...

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agree with Stephen, I think somatic affiliation because you are in a

:41:38.:41:48.
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trade union, but strongly need to be changed. -- automatic affiliation.

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In the Netherlands, there is a strong trade union movement there.

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It used to be cool, but these days we are more likely to be digging not

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a of the ground, it used -- it is used to make fertiliser and what is

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believed to be the world's the guests supply lies deep beneath the

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ground in North Yorkshire. Later this month, planners will the site

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whether to allow a 1500 -- if 1500 metre deep mine shaft to be sunk to

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get it out. The development would create thousands of local jobs and

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bring some economic benefits to do so. But it's worth it will come at a

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high price to the environment and to tourism.

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There are plenty of opportunities around Whitby if you want to work in

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tourism for catering. If you want to work in science or engineering,

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opportunities are a little harder to find. Two island like to be a civil

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engineer. -- I would like to be a civil engineer. I would like to do

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engineering at University. I would like to go into a science -based job

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that I do not see it as being in this area. Without places to employ,

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it forces you to move away. scientists may soon be able to start

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their careers without leaving home. Baxter what is being found beneath

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the ground here at the North York Moors National Park. It is basically

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a form of fertiliser, the boost this could is, over 1000 jobs. The

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injection of over �1 billion in building this project. But would any

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jobs created be cancelled out by job losses in the tourist industry? We

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are standing about a mile and a half from the proposed site of the mine,

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looking across the moor land at the drilling rig. We have undertaken

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research on the impact of the proposed mine on the economy and it

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has revealed that could be as much as �35 million lost every year

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during the construction. That is over a period of up to four years.

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Aside from these fears that opening the mine would deter visitors, there

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are concerns about the impact it would have on the environment.

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Indisputable air, the last thing we want is a major industry, and

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intrusion of this size, just over 12 months ago, I asked the company how

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much excavate -- excavation would spoil the farm, and I was told it

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would be 200,000 tubing meters. The planning application went in, that

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was 600,000 tubing metres. Within a month, they made a correction of

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saying it was 1.2 million cubic metres of spoil. That is enough to

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fill Wembley Stadium to the roof. The company says those increases are

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made due to mistake by consultants working for them. They insist they

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will take care of the National Park. We have established a track record

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of looking at the moment. -- looking after the environment. The National

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Park is an important part of the country. It is something we are

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working to ensure that it is stronger and better, and it is

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getting a more vibrant economy. need to convince the park authority

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to allow them to bring heavy industry to this vast expanse of

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national beauty. The company will have to prove there is an

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exceptional national need to build a mine in the National Park.

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The local MP in the area where the miners plan is Scarborough and

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Whitby MP. I asked him if every job rated by mining, another could be

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lost in the tourism industry. I have was medically we cannot give

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potash mining and environmental blank cheque. But they have bent

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over backwards to make sure the impact on the environment in the

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North York Moors National Park is minimised. There has been some

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rather spurious figures published, that would say we would lose 20% of

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our tourists, that is ridiculous. I have yet to see anyone turn a car

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around when they passed the area. I'm -- I think it would be a shot in

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the arm for the local economy, particularly some of the villages,

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which I note dominated by second homes and holiday cottages. We will

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get some life into those communities. People who work in the

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mine will be able to live in the village, use the shop in the winter

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when it is often quite a struggle. It will have a positive impact on

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the communities and I think the impact on tourism will be minimal.

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You cannot dismiss a National Park Service which suggested that this

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mine during construction could cost �40 million a year to the tourist

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industry. They asked people whether they would be put off going to the

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National Park if there was a mass of mine, and I think 14% said they

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might be. The evidence is not like that. If you go to the village at

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the top of my constituency, it is within sight of another mine, and it

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is still another vibrant tourist community. And we have the impact of

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the construction workers, who will be staying in bed and Breakfast in

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some cases, in local hotels, so they will be quite a positive impact on

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hospitality industry. We need to be careful we do not have too big an

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impact on the guesthouses -- and the ghettos as turnover to construction

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workers for six or seven months and then lose their tourism trade.

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Ian Swales, is it acceptable to put a potash mine in the National Park?

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I have been working closely with York Potash and what did not come

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from the film is the amazing design they have got which puts the mine

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are low ground. The top of the mine, it will be underground. All you will

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see is a building like a barn, and a car park. They have cleverly put it

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underground. All the mind material will be pipelined to Teeside for

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processing. I think they are bending over backwards on the environment

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and I think some of the scare stories are just that. There is

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concern that having a mine is not necessarily the greatest PR. As I

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say, I have seen scale models and photographs, you will barely know

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there is a mine. The processing will be done underground. You will not

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actually see the typical mining activities above ground. It is a

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very clever design. I think it is overwhelmingly positive, economic

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leader and I do not accept that people will not visit the North

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Yorkshire Moors because of this facility. Stephen Hughes, the North

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East has a history of mining, but it is history, does it lead mines for

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the 20th -- for the 21st century? Two we have always had a play-off

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between jobs and the environment. That has been so for many years.

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had a good environment and good jobs. One thing to take into account

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is the European habitats directive, in terms of environmental impact

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assessment. Other important issues might be visibility, but it might

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have an impact on the water table, he could have a profound effect on

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the flora and fauna and the habitat generally. It is hard to turn down

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that number of jobs. That is the dilemma. There might be some

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environmental concerns, but the jobs are very important. You have to bear

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in mind as well that this is an international interest. The flora

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and fauna, there are some rare flora and fauna in the North York is and

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we have a responsible to to protect them as well. Would you accept that

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this is a concern, even if they make it look fine, they could be an

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impact on the environment that we cannot sell that just for the jobs.

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That these to be -- that needs to be properly assessed. I do not think

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there is the kind of impact that people might fear, for example,

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people who have seen opencast mining, this is nothing like that.

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We are talking about 1500 metres underground. And then up to just

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under the ground, then piped away. It will not the affecting the woods

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and moors around it at all. -- be affecting.

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The Prime Minister recently agreed a real terms cut in the European Union

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budget, that means inevitably there will be less you might share over

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the next few years. In the past, the European structural funds of hot

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paper project like the stadium might and the Baltic. But how much will

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the region get in the future? I have been finding out.

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You probably do not need me to tell you that this time along with buying

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any time soon. It is being recycled by a company based at Durham Tees

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Valley airport. The firm that would also have been grounded about almost

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�1 million of your money. -- you money. It has enabled us to invest

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in staff, we will have after completion of our funding, about

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eight full-time staff, probably about six subcontractors per

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aeroplane at any one time, that probably brings around 30 jobs into

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this building. More European funding is on the way. Between 2014 and

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2020, the area will get 406 to �5 billion. Tees Valley, 107 �5

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million. Cumbria, �78 million. Each will get a greater say over how it

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is spent. Crucial to those who are handing out the money. Locally

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delivered programmes can affect the particularities of the place where

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they are. That makes them much more appropriate for the businesses that

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are there, the entrepreneurs, the sorts of sectors being developed. It

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is critical in terms of the effectiveness of those businesses.

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The new funding might also follow the region to do more work like

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this. Welcome to what is gone to become a science centre in

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Newcastle, this 32 acre former brewery site is being transformed

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model of the biggest regeneration product and not a lovely guy. --

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products -- projects in the UK. But the part of EU money available could

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have been even bigger. The government has taken �675 million

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away from England's EU funding allocation and handed it to

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Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. That means all nations face

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a 5% cut in grants. Has that left a gaping hole in the deal? Not

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according to some. We have to make streaming well, we have actually got

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about the same sum of money that came in the last round. -- we have

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done extremely well. Considering the changes that have happened, and

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everyone says is the North East is the richer economic competitiveness

:53:06.:53:10.

in Europe, we have done extremely well. European money has already

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left a legacy throughout the region. Have we really got the best deal

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available? Hard hat and the high viz vest is

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now compulsory uniform for reporters. Stephen Hughes, you have

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said the North East will miss out in favour of Scotland, explain why.

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Like -- the test on whether a region get EU funding is a calculation of

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what proportion that region has the average wealth of the nation.

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take the south of this region, Durham and the Tees Valley, it is

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less than 75% of the national average wealth. Scotland, 90%, so

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they should be getting much less. But the Secretary of State has

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creamed off part of the money from the English regions to distribute to

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Scotland and Wales and Northern Ireland. As you have heard, almost

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200 million going to Scotland, when it is considerably better off in

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wealth terms than the North East. But those nations are facing 30%

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cuts. If you look at the level of wealth, the North East as a whole,

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including Tyne & Wear, has just over 75% of the average wealth of the

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nation has a whole. That is considerably less than Scotland. We

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have done a good job using European money, but we do need more. The job

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is not finished yet. This money could have been extremely useful.

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you share those concerns? I do, but you can see why the Government has

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decided to make those cuts. I think we should, as one of your reporters

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said, we should look on the price they, the North East has the most

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money in the country after London and Cornwall. -- look on the bright

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side. The Tees Valley has about the same as Sheffield or Liverpool.

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These are huge sums of money, recognising the needs of our area.

:55:06.:55:09.

The central Government is only taking 5% of the top of these

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amount, whereas the previous Government to 50% off the top.

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about the money to Scotland, it seems that of a coincidence with an

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independence referendum in the offing. It is only a confidence

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because they have done exactly the same prep in them, Scotland,

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Northern Ireland and Wales. The percentage cut is the same in all

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four nations. People want to spin that story about the effect is the

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same cut everywhere. You cannot pretend this isn't a good deal for

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the North East in terms of the amount of money coming year compared

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to other parts of England and the UK. Given our relative poverty, we

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should have had more. The only reason we are going to get any money

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at all is because we got transitional region status. Our own

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Government did not support that. They opposed it. A settlement was

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reached at European level. But the majority were in favour.

:56:07.:56:10.

At least 6000 people in the North East including many shopworkers are

:56:10.:56:13.

on what is called zero hours contracts. That is where the

:56:13.:56:17.

employee is not guaranteed any work but is effectively on-call. This

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week, Sunderland MP questioned the rise in the number of such contracts

:56:21.:56:25.

within the NHS. With that, and the rest of the week's little news,

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here's Mark Denten. Proposals are 21,000 new homes in

:56:34.:56:39.

Newcastle by 2030 Abbey published in a plan. 6000 will be built on the

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green belt. There will be a public enquiry next year bottle by

:56:43.:56:45.

deliveries in Gateshead have been taken over by volunteers of the

:56:45.:56:48.

council said it cannot afford to run them. The council has also scrapped

:56:48.:56:55.

plans to compensate... Thousands of NHS are losing out on climate rights

:56:55.:56:59.

because they are on zero hours contracts. Julie Elliott told the

:56:59.:57:03.

debate it had a detrimental impact on the lives of many workers. Like

:57:03.:57:07.

the disruption to family life is a result of frequent short notice

:57:07.:57:10.

requirements to work. It makes so many things, from arranging

:57:10.:57:14.

childcare to doing the weekly shopping, nearly impossible to

:57:14.:57:18.

plan. North East MPs are calling propulsive to resolve the dispute on

:57:18.:57:22.

the Tyne & Wear Metro, they will -- the one staff to be given up living

:57:23.:57:27.

wage. And Lord Campbell savours is to be greater on the colour of the

:57:27.:57:37.
:57:37.:57:39.

University of Canberra. -- Cumbria. Ian Swales, we can talk but the zero

:57:39.:57:42.

hours contract, hospitals and Sunderland, Gateshead, Hartlepool,

:57:42.:57:47.

both Cumbria, they are among those using them. They say it is about

:57:47.:57:51.

being as flexible as possible -- as possible. It needs looking at. The

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previous Government looked at it and concluded they should not do

:57:55.:58:00.

anything. There has been a gross and I think it is time to look at it

:58:00.:58:03.

again. I cannot say I have had a single constituent raised the issue

:58:04.:58:09.

with me although I have had care workers raised the issue of reach of

:58:09.:58:12.

the minimum wage regulations in terms of not being paid for their

:58:12.:58:15.

travel time between calls, that is something I have taken up with the

:58:15.:58:21.

minister. Is it a way of avoiding honouring workers' writes two that

:58:21.:58:28.

is what needs looking at. Let's member, some people want these, this

:58:28.:58:31.

kind of flexibility because it sees their lifestyle, students for

:58:31.:58:38.

example. One key question is, is the flexibility to way, or are people

:58:38.:58:41.

actually being abused, because they are expected to be factual but do

:58:41.:58:46.

not have the effect that might flexibility in return two I cannot

:58:46.:58:49.

imagine you are a great fan of this, but this is the real world for

:58:49.:58:52.

many workers. It means they get work when perhaps they would not do

:58:52.:59:01.

otherwise. We need to regularise all forms of contract. We introduced the

:59:01.:59:05.

directive on part-time work, fixed term contract work, agency work. My

:59:06.:59:11.

own government opposed them, I have today -- I have to say. The UK

:59:11.:59:17.

Labour market and to devise a body is going to hell and handcart. This

:59:17.:59:21.

is a major source of abuse of these workers. I have had workers come to

:59:21.:59:23.

me who are required to be there early in the morning, stayed till

:59:23.:59:27.

late at night, eight times during the day unpaid, that is in breach of

:59:27.:59:33.

the minimum pay regulations. -- break times. Is this happening

:59:33.:59:39.

across Europe? We are seeing various forms of flexibility emerging in all

:59:39.:59:43.

of the markets. I think it is part of the rest of the body, it has to

:59:43.:59:48.

stop. People deserve a decent contract of work. I think in the

:59:48.:59:51.

health service, this is causing major disruption, dislocation in the

:59:51.:59:56.

care of patients. They do not know who has gone to turn up to take care

:59:56.:00:04.

of them. Some of these arrangements are already illegal. The thing that

:00:04.:00:07.

keeps them asleep at night if they know a lot of the members are

:00:07.:00:13.

actually breaching the minimum wage regulations. I think it is really

:00:13.:00:17.

important that people who feel abused in that way report the

:00:17.:00:23.

situation. What can the Government do? Can they stop it happening? A

:00:23.:00:30.

lot of these contracts are not illegal. There are many types of

:00:30.:00:34.

contracts out there, some will be fine, some, people will want. But

:00:34.:00:38.

there are others which you could argue are a form of reviews. For

:00:38.:00:42.

example, having to be on-call at home and disrupt life without

:00:42.:00:47.

knowing whether you are going to get work or not. Or being told that you

:00:47.:00:51.

have a job and then finding it in a whole week you do not earn any

:00:51.:00:56.

money. Would you accept it is better to do these contracts and save money

:00:56.:01:00.

for the NHS to spend on patients rather than staff? You have to bear

:01:00.:01:05.

in mind, the rights of the people working in these jobs as well. They

:01:05.:01:10.

have a right to a decent contract, decent life. They have been deprived

:01:10.:01:14.

of that. That is unacceptable. you very much.

:01:14.:01:21.

That's about all from us, but before we leave for the beach, a reminder

:01:21.:01:24.

of my blog and Twitter address on the screen now. The you can keep

:01:24.:01:29.

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