Browse content similar to 13/04/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Aternoon folks, and welcome to the Sunday Politics. As MPs head off for | :00:32. | :00:36. | |
their Easter break, campaigning for the European elections in six weeks' | :00:37. | :00:42. | |
time gets underway. In a Sunday Politics special, we'll debate the | :00:43. | :00:45. | |
issues at stake on May 22nd with senior party figures from the | :00:46. | :00:47. | |
Conservatives, Labour, Liberal Democrats, and UKIP. And as ever | :00:48. | :00:57. | |
we'll be discussing the week ahead with our panel of top political | :00:58. | :00:59. | |
In the North East and Cumbrha: commentators. | :01:00. | :01:07. | |
In the North East and Cumbrha: Labour promises a minister to stand | :01:08. | :01:10. | |
up for the region. And why one north`east council is | :01:11. | :01:13. | |
scrapping parking charges for motorists, just as Cumbria | :01:14. | :01:14. | |
introduces them. newspapers which some claim are | :01:15. | :01:17. | |
politically slanted and not impartial about informing people of | :01:18. | :01:23. | |
local services. So all that to come between now and | :01:24. | :01:27. | |
quarter to four and for the next thirty minutes or so we'll be | :01:28. | :01:29. | |
debating the European elections Here in the studio we have Syed | :01:30. | :01:32. | |
Kamall, leader of the Conservatives in the European Parliament, Richard | :01:33. | :01:35. | |
Howitt, chair of the Labour group of MEPs, Sarah Ludford, deputy leader | :01:36. | :01:38. | |
of the Lib Dems in Europe, and Patrick O'Flynn, UKIP's director of | :01:39. | :01:48. | |
communications. Welcome to you all. In a moment, all four will give us | :01:49. | :01:51. | |
their opening pitch for the elections. A little earlier they | :01:52. | :02:01. | |
drew lots to decide who'll go first. And that privilege goes to Syed | :02:02. | :02:04. | |
Before that, though, here's a quick reminder of what all the fuss is | :02:05. | :02:09. | |
about. The vote to choose members of the | :02:10. | :02:13. | |
European Parliament takes place on Thursday the 22nd of May. The same | :02:14. | :02:17. | |
day as local elections are held in England and Northern Ireland. The UK | :02:18. | :02:20. | |
sends 73 England and Northern Ireland. The UK | :02:21. | :02:24. | |
sends NTP is to Brussels. And the vote is a form of proportional | :02:25. | :02:28. | |
representation. In total, there are 751 MEPs from the 28 member states. | :02:29. | :02:36. | |
What do they do all day? The European Parliament's power has | :02:37. | :02:40. | |
grown. A vet of the EU commissioners and they can amend, approve or | :02:41. | :02:43. | |
reject nearly all EU legislation and the EU budget. Some laws MEPs have | :02:44. | :02:50. | |
been responsible for include price caps on mobile phone chargers, | :02:51. | :02:56. | |
banking regulation and cover food regulation two -- labelling. | :02:57. | :03:03. | |
Syed Kamall, you have 30 seconds. Europe cannot go on as it is. Europe | :03:04. | :03:08. | |
needs to change. And our relationship with Europe needs to | :03:09. | :03:12. | |
change. Only the Conservatives have a plan to deliver that change and of | :03:13. | :03:15. | |
the British people and in-out referendum. Labour and the Lib Dems | :03:16. | :03:20. | |
will not and UKIP simply cannot Only the Conservatives will offer | :03:21. | :03:26. | |
the three yards, with Conservative MEPs working alongside a | :03:27. | :03:30. | |
conservative Prime Minister. For, really is and above all a | :03:31. | :03:36. | |
referendum. Sarah Ludford is next. Your choice is simple. If you think | :03:37. | :03:40. | |
Britain is better off in Europe vote for the Liberal Democrats. The | :03:41. | :03:45. | |
Lib Dems are the only party of Ian, fighting to keep Britain in Europe | :03:46. | :03:49. | |
and in work. There is nothing patriotic about UKIP's desire to | :03:50. | :03:53. | |
pull-out. That is playing Russian roulette with Britain's economy and | :03:54. | :03:57. | |
jobs. The Conservatives are flirting with exit and Labour lacks the | :03:58. | :04:01. | |
courage to speak up. Thought Liberal Democrat on May the 22nd to say in | :04:02. | :04:08. | |
Europe for jobs and security. Sarah Ludford. Next, Richard Howitt from | :04:09. | :04:14. | |
Labour. The European elections are about who represents you. They are | :04:15. | :04:18. | |
not a referendum on a referendum. Labour MEPs believe in putting jobs | :04:19. | :04:23. | |
and growth first. A guarantee to help young people into work, | :04:24. | :04:26. | |
reforming energy markets so that bills are brought down for good | :04:27. | :04:30. | |
Labour believes in reform in Europe, but within. It is David Cameron who | :04:31. | :04:36. | |
is risking your job and Britain s prosperity because of divisions in | :04:37. | :04:39. | |
his own party. Labour MEPs put British interests first. Our fourth | :04:40. | :04:44. | |
opening statement from Patrick O'Flynn. The EU is old hat. It is a | :04:45. | :04:52. | |
declining regional trade bloc in an era of global trade. It is a | :04:53. | :04:55. | |
20th-century political project designed to prevent conflict in | :04:56. | :05:01. | |
Europe that is now reawakening old hostilities. It is an attempt to | :05:02. | :05:04. | |
force on the European people European this as their primary | :05:05. | :05:12. | |
collective identity. It has hollowed out British democracy and now we do | :05:13. | :05:16. | |
not even control our own borders. That is why you should vote UKIP. | :05:17. | :05:22. | |
That is the opening statements. Let's get on with the debate. Why | :05:23. | :05:24. | |
should people vote in the selections? If you vote UKIP, we can | :05:25. | :05:31. | |
deliver an earthquake that will rock the foundations of British politics | :05:32. | :05:34. | |
and the European political class. We can send a signal to Europe that | :05:35. | :05:40. | |
Britain has had enough, that Britain wants to retain its nation state | :05:41. | :05:45. | |
status and regain political power and the ability to forge trading | :05:46. | :05:50. | |
deals across the world. Britain leading Europe to freedom twice in | :05:51. | :05:56. | |
the last century through bloodshed. We feel that a UKIP win in those | :05:57. | :05:59. | |
elections could help Britain set an example to lead European nation | :06:00. | :06:06. | |
states back to free assembly again. Syed Kamall, isn't it the case that | :06:07. | :06:10. | |
many Tory voters will vote you clip to keep you honest, to keep your | :06:11. | :06:15. | |
feet to the fire? Whatever you think of the European Parliament or the | :06:16. | :06:18. | |
EU, the fact is that the European Parliament as equal power with the | :06:19. | :06:23. | |
28 governments of the EU. When David Cameron delivered the first cut to | :06:24. | :06:29. | |
the EU budget, the first ever cut, he needed a strong team of | :06:30. | :06:32. | |
Conservative MEPs working alongside him. But many of your supporters | :06:33. | :06:39. | |
will vote for UKIP for the reasons I gave. Many will vote Liberal | :06:40. | :06:48. | |
Democrat. Not very many. Many of our supporters will vote for us because | :06:49. | :06:51. | |
we are the only party trying to change the EU and offer reform. We | :06:52. | :06:54. | |
have offered renegotiation and a referendum. And how would you vote | :06:55. | :07:00. | |
in such a referendum? We have no idea whether he would vote yes or | :07:01. | :07:05. | |
no. Let him answer. I will answer that question. If the EU continues | :07:06. | :07:11. | |
on this road, towards a United States of Europe, and if there was | :07:12. | :07:14. | |
no change at the time of the referendum, then I would probably | :07:15. | :07:20. | |
vote to leave. You have no confidence in David Cameron? We | :07:21. | :07:24. | |
Javier Culson opportunity to read negotiate our relationship with | :07:25. | :07:26. | |
Europe and the Conservatives are at the forefront of that agenda. David | :07:27. | :07:29. | |
Cameron have not given a list of demands. He said that if things do | :07:30. | :07:37. | |
not change, he will probably vote to leave, is that right? If at the time | :07:38. | :07:43. | |
of the referendum, things had not changed, I would vote to leave and | :07:44. | :07:46. | |
we have a golden opportunity to perform the agenda. Richard, the | :07:47. | :07:53. | |
last time the British people had a say on this was over 40 years ago. | :07:54. | :08:01. | |
Under a Labour government. Which was deeply divided on the issue. And | :08:02. | :08:06. | |
that was a say on the common market. Today's EU is a very different | :08:07. | :08:12. | |
animal from the common market. Why can we not, under another Labour | :08:13. | :08:17. | |
government, have another vote? First of all, we want it to be more than a | :08:18. | :08:23. | |
free trading area. We make no apologies about that. But in the | :08:24. | :08:27. | |
elections because this is half of Britain's exports and investment. If | :08:28. | :08:31. | |
you care about your job and business, you cannot hear from the | :08:32. | :08:34. | |
party of government that they probably want you to leave because | :08:35. | :08:38. | |
the CBI, the engineering employees in Federation and the chimp of | :08:39. | :08:42. | |
commerce, 80% of them say it is necessary to stay in. So why not | :08:43. | :08:48. | |
give us a vote? When David Cameron says he wants to repatriate social | :08:49. | :08:51. | |
powers, he means takeaway maternity rights and holidays. If the case is | :08:52. | :08:57. | |
so strong, why not give us an in-out vote? David Miliband has said that | :08:58. | :09:04. | |
there will be a referendum if there was a proposal to change powers Why | :09:05. | :09:09. | |
wait? This is based on a series of reforms. Labour has a set of | :09:10. | :09:13. | |
reforms. David Cameron is silent about what they would be. That is | :09:14. | :09:16. | |
because he knows that if he put them forward, they would either be | :09:17. | :09:20. | |
unsatisfactory to his Eurosceptic backbenchers and he would be out of | :09:21. | :09:24. | |
a job, or they would be unacceptable to European leaders. Why is your | :09:25. | :09:31. | |
leader missing in action? Ed Miliband is unable to say even the | :09:32. | :09:35. | |
positive things that you are saying. He has run away from the argument. | :09:36. | :09:42. | |
He actually said there would not be a referendum in his time. | :09:43. | :09:46. | |
For a conservative to say they will have a referendum but not give the | :09:47. | :09:54. | |
reforms, it is a mistake. Nick Clegg gave Nigel Farage a huge opportunity | :09:55. | :10:00. | |
in that debate. He said that the Eurosceptic view was to leave | :10:01. | :10:04. | |
Britain like Billy no mates. I can say that he is the best qualified | :10:05. | :10:10. | |
person to say that. Sarah Ludford, you have said that lots of people | :10:11. | :10:14. | |
are going to vote Lib Dem but that is not what the polls are saying. | :10:15. | :10:18. | |
You are 7% in two polls this morning. Eclectic's decision to | :10:19. | :10:21. | |
champion Europe has been a disaster for you. You face wet out. We swayed | :10:22. | :10:27. | |
a lot of people our way with Nick Clegg's debate. Where is the | :10:28. | :10:32. | |
evidence? We are the only party that is completely united, saying that we | :10:33. | :10:38. | |
are wanting to stay in. It is essential because formally and jobs | :10:39. | :10:40. | |
are supported by our trade with the EU. Linked to the EU. We are finding | :10:41. | :10:46. | |
a lot of moderate conservative voters are actually fed up with the | :10:47. | :10:50. | |
Tories being split and divided all over the place. Syed Kamall saying | :10:51. | :10:59. | |
that we might vote in rout. -- in or out. We are consistent. A poll in | :11:00. | :11:03. | |
London showed that 18% would vote for us. I am delighted about that. | :11:04. | :11:08. | |
London is not the whole country it may surprise you. We need to move on | :11:09. | :11:14. | |
to immigration, an important issue. We are a member of the EU and the | :11:15. | :11:17. | |
rules say that with a few caveats, our fellow EU citizens are free to | :11:18. | :11:22. | |
come here if they want. Why can we not just accept that? Britain has a | :11:23. | :11:28. | |
proud record when it comes to immigration. We have been open to | :11:29. | :11:31. | |
people across the world for centuries. But we welcome people who | :11:32. | :11:35. | |
come to our country to contribute to pay taxes and two wards are a | :11:36. | :11:40. | |
society positively. But there are three real concerns that we have to | :11:41. | :11:43. | |
address. The first one is numbers, and secondly people who may come | :11:44. | :11:48. | |
here not to work but for benefits, and thirdly, getting a hang of the | :11:49. | :11:52. | |
numbers. I think it is shameful that only this week the office for | :11:53. | :11:56. | |
National said that they did not collect sufficient figures under a | :11:57. | :12:01. | |
Labour government. 350,000 extra people came in and they did not | :12:02. | :12:05. | |
count the numbers. That is the size of a city like Cardiff. That is | :12:06. | :12:11. | |
shameful. 350,000 came from all over the place. Do you accept the free | :12:12. | :12:16. | |
movement of peoples within the EU? I accept and am open to people who | :12:17. | :12:20. | |
want to come here and contribute. In the same way... Do you accept the | :12:21. | :12:26. | |
free movement of peoples within the EU? In our manifesto, we have said | :12:27. | :12:32. | |
it is an issue for reform. We have to make sure that people are coming | :12:33. | :12:35. | |
here to work and contribute positively, not simply to come here | :12:36. | :12:43. | |
and take advantage of the system. I will tell you what else is | :12:44. | :12:47. | |
shameful. What is shameful is David Cameron making a pledge to the | :12:48. | :12:49. | |
British people on an issue that they really care about, to bring net | :12:50. | :12:54. | |
immigration down to the tens of thousands a year, having no means of | :12:55. | :12:58. | |
fulfilling that pledge. And we see now it is back up to 212,000 a year | :12:59. | :13:02. | |
because we have no volume control and no quality control from | :13:03. | :13:07. | |
immigration from our neighbours And that is a disgrace. How could UKIP | :13:08. | :13:11. | |
address that issue? Because we would leave the EU. How? Tell me how. You | :13:12. | :13:16. | |
do not have a single member of Parliament. He will not get a single | :13:17. | :13:20. | |
member of Parliament. How are you... ? TUC are hoping to get an | :13:21. | :13:30. | |
MEP. What do you say? -- he is here today hoping to get an MEP. All of | :13:31. | :13:40. | |
-- almost 2 million Brits live and work in the rest of the EU. Is that | :13:41. | :13:47. | |
worth having? The majority are wealthy, retired people. Why do not | :13:48. | :13:54. | |
object to bilateral agreements with countries with similar living | :13:55. | :13:56. | |
standards to us. France, the Netherlands, that works fine. But | :13:57. | :14:01. | |
these three people want Turkey to join the EU, 75 Na Li and people | :14:02. | :14:04. | |
running our country, only 10% of which... Syed Kamall is Michael year | :14:05. | :14:18. | |
to say whether they are in favour of free movement for work, not for | :14:19. | :14:21. | |
benefits... That is what I'm saying. You said you were unable to | :14:22. | :14:29. | |
be clear. That leaves 2 million British people absolutely unsure as | :14:30. | :14:32. | |
to whether they would have a right to continue to live in other | :14:33. | :14:36. | |
countries. It is a two-way street. You are putting those people in a | :14:37. | :14:40. | |
state of uncertainty. EU migrants have been good for the British | :14:41. | :14:42. | |
economy and contribute far more than they take out in services and | :14:43. | :14:46. | |
benefits. One in seven businesses were founded in -- by migrants. And | :14:47. | :14:53. | |
they cannot just turn up and claim benefits. The coalition government | :14:54. | :15:00. | |
has legislated to make sure that they cannot claim for three months. | :15:01. | :15:04. | |
They will not be able to claim for more than six months. Richard | :15:05. | :15:12. | |
Howitt, Jack Straw said it was A spectacular mistake for Labour to | :15:13. | :15:19. | |
allow EU migrants from Poland and Hungary to work in the UK from | :15:20. | :15:24. | |
2004." Why should we trust a party that makes spectacular mistakes and | :15:25. | :15:28. | |
hasn't apologised for it? We accept it is a mistake and I apologise We | :15:29. | :15:33. | |
make a firm commitment for new EU states we will put down transitional | :15:34. | :15:37. | |
controls. When I listen to the Conservatives and UKIP trying to | :15:38. | :15:40. | |
re-write history, saying immigration was out of control, uncontrolled, | :15:41. | :15:45. | |
open door, we hear it over and over again. It is not true. Anyone who | :15:46. | :15:50. | |
was around at the time... Come on, Richard. Hold on, you undercounted | :15:51. | :15:57. | |
by 350,000. You were letting 2 million in over the years, an | :15:58. | :16:02. | |
under-counted by 350,000 people you didn't know came in. You should have | :16:03. | :16:08. | |
tightened the benefit rules. The Conservative MEP today has, in four | :16:09. | :16:14. | |
years in government in Britain, is trying it blame the previous Labour | :16:15. | :16:18. | |
Government over the fact they won't count people in or people out. | :16:19. | :16:23. | |
Yvette Cooper - it is not easy for people to come to the country and | :16:24. | :16:30. | |
benefits are changing, changing the habitual residence test and we are | :16:31. | :16:36. | |
going to say that migrants can't come and claim child benefit if | :16:37. | :16:39. | |
their children are outside the country. Labour a has shown they | :16:40. | :16:42. | |
have listened to concerns but we say it is a stronger, better, country | :16:43. | :16:47. | |
because it is diverse and multicultural snoo.d this is fantasy | :16:48. | :16:50. | |
politics from all the Peters. They are committed to a system with no | :16:51. | :16:55. | |
volume control and no quality control. You talk about benefits as | :16:56. | :16:59. | |
if it is only out of work benefits. In work benefits cost a lot of money | :17:00. | :17:04. | |
for the British taxpayer. Big businesses bring in minimum wage | :17:05. | :17:13. | |
workers. It is ?5,000 per perschool place What are you going to do? Have | :17:14. | :17:18. | |
all the pensioners come back to Britain? How will will you fund the | :17:19. | :17:23. | |
health care? Do you really think Spain and pour tu ghal their current | :17:24. | :17:28. | |
situation, are going to turn their backs on British property owners | :17:29. | :17:33. | |
with wealth? -- Portugal. They might not wanting pensioners to use their | :17:34. | :17:39. | |
health service. Pensioners often come back to Britain to use the | :17:40. | :17:44. | |
health service. You have shown it represents wealthy people's | :17:45. | :17:47. | |
interests. A second Conservative Party. Hang on a minute... Blue | :17:48. | :17:53. | |
collar wages were down. They want it character for the National Health | :17:54. | :17:57. | |
Service, have cuts that go farther and comprehensive education. This is | :17:58. | :18:01. | |
a debate on the wider politics between Conservatives and UKIP and | :18:02. | :18:04. | |
Labour will... You can't both talk time. UKIP - they haven't thought it | :18:05. | :18:10. | |
through, thousand they will have trade access in the EU, hasn't | :18:11. | :18:13. | |
thought how they will have trade deals that the Liberal Democrats | :18:14. | :18:16. | |
support, like with the United States: Would you have a cap on | :18:17. | :18:21. | |
non-EU immigrants? We are not in favour of a cap. No cap on either. | :18:22. | :18:26. | |
No. Well it is a target. It is a moving feast, as it were. Would you | :18:27. | :18:31. | |
have a limit on non-EU limits? We have limits on quality. We have | :18:32. | :18:34. | |
people who are skilled migrants coming in. Lip its? . By quality, | :18:35. | :18:39. | |
not by quantity. -- Limits. How do you do that? We need to move | :18:40. | :18:46. | |
on to foreign affairs. Should we pool more sovereignty to | :18:47. | :18:51. | |
give the European Union more clout in foreign and defence matters? I'm | :18:52. | :18:55. | |
Labour's defence and foreign affairs spokesperson. No we don't need to | :18:56. | :19:00. | |
pull more powers into Europe. As we undertake this live debate there are | :19:01. | :19:04. | |
guns being fired in Ukraine as we speak. Europe is facing, for the | :19:05. | :19:09. | |
first time, since the end of the Second World War, Armies crossing | :19:10. | :19:14. | |
national borders and floatening peace. Doesn't it -- threatening | :19:15. | :19:18. | |
peace. Doesn't it need to come together of the We don't need more | :19:19. | :19:23. | |
powers. We need political will. With Vladimir Putin, in my view, he has | :19:24. | :19:29. | |
-- we have fallen short in the sanctions. But it is Europe, not | :19:30. | :19:33. | |
Britain. Remember Putin calling Britain little England a small | :19:34. | :19:38. | |
island with no influence. Labour doesn't agree with that. But if | :19:39. | :19:42. | |
that's the mindset that allows someone like Vladimir Putin to send | :19:43. | :19:45. | |
troops across borders threatening peace, it is worrying. And when we | :19:46. | :19:49. | |
have, in UKIP a party that say they admire Putin and support his | :19:50. | :19:54. | |
policies, that is no recipe for how Europe should be wrong. I was | :19:55. | :19:59. | |
waiting for that. Let me ask him. We don't admire Putin as a leader. . | :20:00. | :20:06. | |
Oh. No we don't. What Nigel Farage said, was he admired him as a | :20:07. | :20:10. | |
political operator. Testifies Franklin D Roosevelt who said a good | :20:11. | :20:14. | |
foreign policy was speaking softly but carrying a big stick. The EU | :20:15. | :20:21. | |
shouts its mouthed off while carrying a matchstick. It is fantasy | :20:22. | :20:24. | |
that you wiebl it stand up to Putin over the Ukraine. -- that you would | :20:25. | :20:29. | |
be able to stand up. Do you admire what Putin is doing in the Ukraine? | :20:30. | :20:33. | |
No. What matters in foreign policy is the outcould. We have a terrible | :20:34. | :20:38. | |
outcome in the Ukraine, like Syria, and Georgia... What would UKIP do? | :20:39. | :20:43. | |
What u skip would do, would be to keep our people safe -- UKIP. | :20:44. | :20:49. | |
How? And not commit our Foreign Office and troops Foreign wars. | :20:50. | :20:55. | |
Patrick O'Flynn. You brought up this issue of foreign wars. Now Nigel | :20:56. | :20:59. | |
Farage said in previous debates that Britain should leave the EU because, | :21:00. | :21:04. | |
"We have had enough of endless foreign wars." Which wars has the EU | :21:05. | :21:10. | |
taken us into? The EU has ban very important factor in the push towards | :21:11. | :21:13. | |
trying to get military intervention in Syria, for example. What wars has | :21:14. | :21:23. | |
the etch U taken us into it -- EU. Fortunately the EU doesn't have its | :21:24. | :21:28. | |
own army yet. It has wanted to sign up to an expansionist agenda. Did it | :21:29. | :21:35. | |
want Iraq? No, that was Labour. UKIP opposed Iraq, so did most of the | :21:36. | :21:40. | |
mainline Europeans. Germany was against Syria and Libya. No EU | :21:41. | :21:46. | |
policy. We had an Anglo French deal on Syria. A by lateral deal. A | :21:47. | :21:52. | |
European dimension. No, buy lateral. We have a European Union that wants | :21:53. | :21:57. | |
to expand ever-more into other people's spheres of influence. If we | :21:58. | :22:01. | |
are going to stand up to what Putin is do, which obviously Nigel Farage | :22:02. | :22:07. | |
has no intentions of doing, you have to get your act together on economic | :22:08. | :22:11. | |
sanctions and diplomatic force and in trade matters, in supporting | :22:12. | :22:15. | |
eastern European countries. Sayeria, who and whose army? And NATO and | :22:16. | :22:21. | |
working transatlanticically, is important through NATO. I will come | :22:22. | :22:25. | |
to you in a moment. Nick Clegg said that the idea of an EU Army was "A | :22:26. | :22:32. | |
dangerous fantasy that is simply not true ""Why then, are we already | :22:33. | :22:37. | |
working on etch U-owned and controlled drones -- EU-owned and | :22:38. | :22:40. | |
the President of the European Parliament has said that the | :22:41. | :22:47. | |
majority of MEPs want the EU to have "deployable troops." He is not | :22:48. | :22:50. | |
speaking for me or Liberal Democrats. The EU does not and will | :22:51. | :22:55. | |
not have an army. Our defence is mainly shaped through NATO. He is | :22:56. | :22:58. | |
President of the Parliament What we must do is to get equipment which | :22:59. | :23:02. | |
can operate together. We waste an awful lot of our spending in Europe | :23:03. | :23:06. | |
because we duplicate equipment. We don't get the bang for our bucks | :23:07. | :23:11. | |
that we should. It is a useful role for the EU, to get equipment working | :23:12. | :23:15. | |
together. That doesn't make sense. You say military equipment, a NATO | :23:16. | :23:21. | |
job. No, the EU, there is a kind of dimension of the EU members of NATO, | :23:22. | :23:26. | |
in working together on a common quument o o so they can talk to each | :23:27. | :23:31. | |
other -- on common equipment, so they can talk to each other. The EU | :23:32. | :23:36. | |
has a role but not an army. So a European defence agency, that helps | :23:37. | :23:39. | |
our defence industries and those jobs are extremely important and | :23:40. | :23:43. | |
would be threatened if the Conservatives and UKIP took us out | :23:44. | :23:48. | |
of Europe but it is 100 years since the start of the fist world war | :23:49. | :23:52. | |
Remember that Europe was set up to try to get a secure peace within | :23:53. | :23:56. | |
Europe T succeeded. Now look on Ukraine but also on the southern | :23:57. | :24:00. | |
borders to the Arab Spring countries in North Africa. It is more | :24:01. | :24:05. | |
important than ever that we work to keep keep peace and stability on our | :24:06. | :24:10. | |
borders. Can I say to Syed and the Conservative MEPs. You talk about | :24:11. | :24:13. | |
the three Rs, I have a fourth, retreat. If you take us out of the | :24:14. | :24:17. | |
European Union, it will be the worse retreat by Britain since Gallipoli. | :24:18. | :24:25. | |
Let him answer If he wants answers -- the British Parliament is the | :24:26. | :24:28. | |
right place with a British Foreign Secretary to decide our foreign | :24:29. | :24:32. | |
policy. You say that, but can I quote David Cameron, this is germain | :24:33. | :24:37. | |
to what you are saying, David Cameron said "There is no doubt that | :24:38. | :24:42. | |
we are more powerful than Washington, Beijing and Delhi, | :24:43. | :24:46. | |
because we are a powerful player in the European Union." Do you agree? | :24:47. | :24:49. | |
He is saying that there are times when it comes to international | :24:50. | :24:52. | |
foreign affairs when you have to cooperate with partners. Often they | :24:53. | :24:56. | |
are EU partners but often they are not. The problem we have... | :24:57. | :25:01. | |
Washington have made it very clear that it wants Britain to talk | :25:02. | :25:08. | |
through Brussels. No, not at all. Talk through the French and | :25:09. | :25:12. | |
Italians, come on, wake up? Through the EU collective. I'm vice chair of | :25:13. | :25:17. | |
the EU delegation. I hear it from the American counterparts. They want | :25:18. | :25:20. | |
the EU to get itself together and not least on Ukraine. Why should our | :25:21. | :25:26. | |
sovereignty be at the behest of .. ? I want to hear from Syed calm | :25:27. | :25:29. | |
amplgts the British Parliament is the right place to decide our | :25:30. | :25:32. | |
foreign poll sinchts sometimes we work with our European partners | :25:33. | :25:37. | |
sometimes we work with our non-European partners. It is our | :25:38. | :25:40. | |
choice to pull sovereign trito work together. G, we move on to our foirt | :25:41. | :25:47. | |
area. We hear a lot in this country about MPs expenses. Snted the real | :25:48. | :25:55. | |
scan dalt MEPs gravy train. -- isn't the real scandal, the MEPs gravy | :25:56. | :26:01. | |
train? You all have your snouts The trough? I don't think so. There is | :26:02. | :26:07. | |
transpancy. The way we use our expenses is online and anyone can | :26:08. | :26:10. | |
ask to examine those. We have actually voted to reform MEPs' | :26:11. | :26:16. | |
allowances. We regularly vote but unfortunately the majority in | :26:17. | :26:19. | |
Parliament don't. Have you voted to cut them? Yes. By how much? About | :26:20. | :26:26. | |
5%. A 5% We hoped to have economies I never fly except across the | :26:27. | :26:30. | |
Atlantic. Difficult to do it any other way. I didn't swim. | :26:31. | :26:38. | |
But we voted for economy flutes We voted for European Parliament policy | :26:39. | :26:43. | |
of transparency which other groups haven't. UKIP don't turn up to vote. | :26:44. | :26:47. | |
They don't earn their salaries. Dhoent do anything. They should hand | :26:48. | :26:53. | |
their salaries and allowances back. You can't ause UKIP of being on the | :26:54. | :26:56. | |
gravy train and the other that we don't claim our attendance allowance | :26:57. | :27:03. | |
because our MEPs are not there. Your attendance allowance is if you are | :27:04. | :27:06. | |
there, you are saying we don't turn up You are in the building and claim | :27:07. | :27:10. | |
the allowances. You are not an MEP, UKIP are so ashamed of what their | :27:11. | :27:14. | |
MEPs have done in Brussels, they didn't field a sitting MEP for | :27:15. | :27:19. | |
today's debate. I think each party decides who it wishes to field. I | :27:20. | :27:23. | |
have the honour of being the UKIP representative. I would say by going | :27:24. | :27:29. | |
in the past few weeks, xeeming to me saying - we are sick of the others. | :27:30. | :27:36. | |
-- people saying to me. : We are quite excited. Can I ask Patrick | :27:37. | :27:41. | |
O'Flynn. He says he touched a chord and his party is strong in the polls | :27:42. | :27:46. | |
today, between 18% and 20%. Haven't you also struck a chord with hip | :27:47. | :27:51. | |
crasscy. Two of your MEPs were jailed for expenses and benefits' | :27:52. | :27:56. | |
fraud. Two more asked to pay back ?37,000 for using European funds. | :27:57. | :28:01. | |
Nigel Farage has boosted about getting ?2 million in expenses and | :28:02. | :28:05. | |
he went on to employ his wife as a secretarial allowance after telling | :28:06. | :28:08. | |
other members not to People who do wrong and break the law, go to ja. I | :28:09. | :28:15. | |
have no time. -- go to jail. People who spend money they are not | :28:16. | :28:18. | |
entitled to should pay it back and that's right. But what UKIP does and | :28:19. | :28:24. | |
the good UKIP MEPs do, is use the allowances they are given to pursue | :28:25. | :28:27. | |
the political agenda they put up when elected which is to get Britain | :28:28. | :28:30. | |
out of this superstate. Instead of using it for parliamentary work | :28:31. | :28:37. | |
Very interesting. Richard Howitt. We were the first British political | :28:38. | :28:41. | |
party to have independent audits of our MEPs' expenses, from 1990, way | :28:42. | :28:47. | |
before the expenses crisis blew up. The Maria Miller scandal has of | :28:48. | :28:52. | |
course hit David Cameron and the Conservative Party hard as it should | :28:53. | :28:55. | |
do. But you are right, even in my own region you have UKIP candidates | :28:56. | :29:00. | |
and councillors who have been charged with fraudulently filling | :29:01. | :29:03. | |
out election papers and other shot lifting. Another independent inquiry | :29:04. | :29:08. | |
found he made racist comments. We had a European candidate last week | :29:09. | :29:12. | |
in Hertfordshire who got a parking ticket from the police and called | :29:13. | :29:17. | |
the police fascists. These people aren't here. | :29:18. | :29:23. | |
I'll let you have a quick reply We can bring up parochial cases. Let | :29:24. | :29:27. | |
him answer. Not so long ago a Liberal Democrat councillor was sent | :29:28. | :29:31. | |
down for firebombing, I don't say they are a bunch of arsonists, but | :29:32. | :29:37. | |
now I think, Nick Clegg might have burnt some cactuses, once. I'm glad | :29:38. | :29:44. | |
you pronounced that word carefully. Syed Kemal, the EU's auditors, they | :29:45. | :29:48. | |
are strongly critical of the EU s financials saying "Errors permist in | :29:49. | :29:54. | |
all main spending areas", the financials are poorly managed. It is | :29:55. | :30:00. | |
a shambles And that's something that all parties agree on. As we agree on | :30:01. | :30:06. | |
expenses, the British parties are at the forefront of transpancy. Every | :30:07. | :30:09. | |
year when we vote for the discharge of the budget, the Conservatives | :30:10. | :30:13. | |
also vote for it but we don't get enough MEPs from other countries to | :30:14. | :30:16. | |
investigate in favour. The Liberal Democrats have put forward to make | :30:17. | :30:20. | |
each Finance Minister, George Osborne and his counterpart to sign | :30:21. | :30:25. | |
a declaration to say all EU money is properly spent in my country. | :30:26. | :30:29. | |
Funnily enough they don't want to do that but I look forward to you | :30:30. | :30:34. | |
confirming that George Osborne will sign it. All the time we hear it is | :30:35. | :30:39. | |
about the money we pay in, about ?150 per family per year. What about | :30:40. | :30:44. | |
the money that comes back? ?1. billion that comes to Britain's | :30:45. | :30:49. | |
regions because of being in Europe. I myself helped to negotiate a fund | :30:50. | :30:53. | |
to help Britain's food banks to ensure so. Poorest and most | :30:54. | :30:57. | |
destitute people... Isn't it our money that went there first. Can I | :30:58. | :31:01. | |
tell you the Conservative-led Government have blocked us from | :31:02. | :31:04. | |
claiming that money. If you want to have the clearest choice at these | :31:05. | :31:08. | |
European elections, it is between... Tell us why. It affects our rebate. | :31:09. | :31:18. | |
Tony Blair gave away our rebate He is quite right. Lib Dems fought to | :31:19. | :31:26. | |
make sure that we apply for money to help with flooding. That is what the | :31:27. | :31:29. | |
Tories were blocking. If you want the clearest example at the European | :31:30. | :31:33. | |
elections, the Conservative Party and MEPs blocked the cap on bankers | :31:34. | :31:38. | |
bonuses, and then blocked a Labour victory to get money for free | :31:39. | :31:45. | |
banks. We need to move on to the future. It is important and people | :31:46. | :31:51. | |
are watching. The EU's Justice Minister says that we need to build | :31:52. | :31:54. | |
a United States of Europe with the commission as its government. Is she | :31:55. | :32:02. | |
right? Not at all. But the future, if we take the next ten years, | :32:03. | :32:07. | |
thinks about climate change and the fact that we are not going to hit of | :32:08. | :32:10. | |
the two degrees target. Europe has led and needs to lead towards | :32:11. | :32:15. | |
getting a new sustainable world It is the political will to use these | :32:16. | :32:19. | |
powers, so she is wrong. It is about the threats from abroad. Labour | :32:20. | :32:23. | |
reforms like getting a commissioner for growth and rebalancing the | :32:24. | :32:27. | |
budget, reforming the common agricultural policy, all of those | :32:28. | :32:31. | |
things will need to happen to make Europe more democratic and open But | :32:32. | :32:38. | |
against the rise of Brazil and China... We do not need more | :32:39. | :32:43. | |
treaties and powers. We need more action with more Labour MEPs. Sarah | :32:44. | :32:48. | |
Ludford, you would sign up to that? No. Unless they do not think that | :32:49. | :32:53. | |
should concentrate on institutional matters. What we need to do is | :32:54. | :32:59. | |
concentrate on making Europe progrowth and competitive and create | :33:00. | :33:03. | |
more jobs in a competitive world. We need more trade deals to open up our | :33:04. | :33:09. | |
exports, we need to streamline the EU. We need less red tape and | :33:10. | :33:15. | |
Liberal Democrats have done a lot on that. We need better scrutiny of EU | :33:16. | :33:18. | |
legislation at West Munster because the national parties... More powers | :33:19. | :33:26. | |
or less for the EU government? In some areas, I would like to see it | :33:27. | :33:35. | |
slimmed down. Including, I am not sure whether the EU should be | :33:36. | :33:38. | |
funding food banks. I think that is a national responsibility. Dearie | :33:39. | :33:44. | |
me. The EU have to concentrate on the economy and climate change. This | :33:45. | :33:49. | |
is the coalition talking. If we want to fritter away political capital on | :33:50. | :33:53. | |
things which are interfering in national matters, then we do not | :33:54. | :33:57. | |
have the support to tackle those big challenges. Would you still want to | :33:58. | :34:03. | |
join the Euro one-day? Now is not a good idea. We wanted the Eurozone to | :34:04. | :34:11. | |
still be sound, which is why... Did not ask you that. Do you want to | :34:12. | :34:15. | |
join the Euro one-day? If it is a success and it did the economy. Now | :34:16. | :34:19. | |
is not the time but in principle, the idea of a single currency has | :34:20. | :34:27. | |
advantages. That was a yes. We are not ruling it out for ever but not | :34:28. | :34:31. | |
in the foreseeable future. It is not on the horizon. What would our | :34:32. | :34:36. | |
relationship be with Europe in the future if UKIP got its way and we | :34:37. | :34:41. | |
left? We would be trading partners with Europe and we would seek | :34:42. | :34:45. | |
partnership in specific serious I'd tell you what, can I just say.. | :34:46. | :34:50. | |
Would we be Norway? We would be stronger than Norway because we are | :34:51. | :34:53. | |
the biggest export market in the Eurozone. We can negotiate a bespoke | :34:54. | :34:58. | |
trading agreement reflecting our enormous importance. Not on | :34:59. | :35:03. | |
services, which make up 80% of the economy. We are the biggest export | :35:04. | :35:08. | |
market in the Eurozone. Our biggest exports are services and they would | :35:09. | :35:12. | |
have to agree to free trade and services. They still have not. Can I | :35:13. | :35:17. | |
read you something? Let me read you something. There would be a free | :35:18. | :35:22. | |
trade agreement in place the day after our exit. Germany would demand | :35:23. | :35:27. | |
no less. Who said that? Not somebody from UKIP, but Digby Jones. Mr | :35:28. | :35:33. | |
business. He is talking about goods, not services. Norway has that | :35:34. | :35:37. | |
and they have no say. You would have to accept the EU rules without any | :35:38. | :35:43. | |
say. No MEPs are commissioners. Let me give you another. Enough. One is | :35:44. | :35:47. | |
enough. Syed Kamall, is it not looking forward pretty much Mission: | :35:48. | :35:54. | |
Impossible for Mr Cameron to get anything like the repatriations of | :35:55. | :36:01. | |
powers that would satisfy your irreconcilables? My father was a bus | :36:02. | :36:08. | |
driver in the 50s and one of the reasons I am here today is because | :36:09. | :36:11. | |
he told me that you can achieve anything if you work hard. He said | :36:12. | :36:14. | |
to me, do not listen to the doubters. When people tell you that | :36:15. | :36:18. | |
something cannot be done, it is a sign of their limitations, not | :36:19. | :36:22. | |
yours. They said that we could not pull Britain out of the bailout | :36:23. | :36:25. | |
mechanism but we did it. He said we could not be to a -- veto European | :36:26. | :36:30. | |
treaty and we did that. They said we would never cut the budget and we | :36:31. | :36:36. | |
did that. The first ever. But overall, we are paying more into the | :36:37. | :36:40. | |
European budget. And they are not sticking to it. More, not less. They | :36:41. | :36:45. | |
say that we cannot achieve reform but we have achieved reform and we | :36:46. | :36:48. | |
are at the forefront of that. Science's father came to Britain | :36:49. | :36:53. | |
because Britain was open and looking outward. What the Conservatives now | :36:54. | :37:04. | |
have, with leaderless Cameron, is an inward looking attitude. They are | :37:05. | :37:10. | |
allowing the rise of UKIP. They are putting so much at risk. People | :37:11. | :37:15. | |
should vote Labour. We are going to have to stop now. No point talking | :37:16. | :37:19. | |
because we are about to finish. I think you all for a spirited debate. | :37:20. | :37:25. | |
I'm sure Nigel Fries and Mr Clegg will have learned a lot about how to | :37:26. | :37:28. | |
debate. -- Nigel Farage. It's just gone 3pm, and you're | :37:29. | :37:31. | |
watching the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland who | :37:32. | :37:34. | |
??NEWINE Hello and welcome to your Scotland. Coming up here in twenty | :37:35. | :37:54. | |
??NEWINE Hello and welcome to your local part of the show, our final | :37:55. | :37:58. | |
one before an Easter break. This week ` Cumbria's introducing them, | :37:59. | :38:01. | |
Northumberland is scrapping them, what are they? Parking charges, of | :38:02. | :38:04. | |
course. But which council h`s got it right? Here in the studio whth me | :38:05. | :38:10. | |
are the Newcastle Labour MP Chi Onwurah, and North Tyneside | :38:11. | :38:12. | |
Conservative Judith Wallace. And a little later we'll be meeting the | :38:13. | :38:16. | |
teenagers at school in Berwhck who've got a vote on Scottish | :38:17. | :38:17. | |
Independence. But we start with the news that the | :38:18. | :38:21. | |
North East is to get its own regional minister, and the North | :38:22. | :38:25. | |
West, too. But only if Labotr wins the General Election. Ed Miliband | :38:26. | :38:28. | |
made the promise this week `s part of a package of measures whhch he | :38:29. | :38:32. | |
says will give towns and cities like Sunderland, Carlisle and | :38:33. | :38:34. | |
Middlesbrough more power to run their own affairs. | :38:35. | :38:37. | |
Newcastle MP Nick Brown had the job of Minister for the North E`st in | :38:38. | :38:40. | |
the last Labour Government. He said it was a chance to influencd | :38:41. | :38:44. | |
decisions at the heart of power Far and away, the most important | :38:45. | :38:47. | |
thing that I was able to contribute was to be the region's advocate | :38:48. | :38:50. | |
within Government, not making requests of them from the ottside, | :38:51. | :38:56. | |
but being on the inside. It was part of the decision`making procdss. | :38:57. | :38:59. | |
Scotland and Wales have that institutionalised, and I thhnk it is | :39:00. | :39:02. | |
important for a region like the North East that has problems of its | :39:03. | :39:13. | |
own to have the same thing. Chi Onwurah, you didn't hear it | :39:14. | :39:17. | |
there, but he ruled himself out of doing it again, do you fancx it I | :39:18. | :39:26. | |
think it is a great thing for the North East and I think it whll be a | :39:27. | :39:31. | |
great role and given the situation we are likely to be in after the | :39:32. | :39:34. | |
next election, we know we are spending 500 times more on transport | :39:35. | :39:38. | |
in London, for example, than we are in Newcastle. We know we ard | :39:39. | :39:41. | |
spending more in the arts and other infrastructure in the South East | :39:42. | :39:45. | |
than here in the North East. Having someone who is in Government, at the | :39:46. | :39:49. | |
heart, able to speak up for the region and make sure that wd get the | :39:50. | :39:52. | |
resources that we need, and also that our businesses are recognised, | :39:53. | :39:56. | |
as well. It is not all about resources, it is about championing | :39:57. | :40:00. | |
us as an investment area. All of that, it would be a great job. OK, | :40:01. | :40:05. | |
but every region is going to get one of his ministers. `` these | :40:06. | :40:10. | |
ministers. Including the Sotth East, so it does not mean we will get | :40:11. | :40:13. | |
special treatment, does it? I don't think the North East wants special | :40:14. | :40:17. | |
treatment... It sounds like you did there. It's not special... We're | :40:18. | :40:20. | |
being badly treated now as we are not getting a fair share of | :40:21. | :40:25. | |
resources. 500 times more on transport in the South East. The | :40:26. | :40:28. | |
North East want its voice loud and proud in the centre of Westlinster. | :40:29. | :40:33. | |
You notice that what the Tories have done, or what the Coalition | :40:34. | :40:37. | |
Government has done, is to `ppoint a minister for Portsmouth bec`use | :40:38. | :40:39. | |
Portsmouth has had the terrhble closures on the docks, but for | :40:40. | :40:43. | |
nowhere else. I think the North East and the other regions deserve to | :40:44. | :40:48. | |
have their voice heard. This is about devolution of power to the | :40:49. | :40:52. | |
regions. You shake your head, is it a good idea to have somebodx at the | :40:53. | :40:55. | |
heart of Government? There `re not many northern ministers in the | :40:56. | :40:58. | |
Coalition Government. I think this new policy announced by Ed Liliband | :40:59. | :41:02. | |
is a very good illustration of the differences between the Labour | :41:03. | :41:04. | |
approach and the Conservative approach. The Conservative `pproach | :41:05. | :41:09. | |
is increasing prosperity for all of us and is to encourage business | :41:10. | :41:13. | |
From business growth, we will all benefit. Businesses taking on more | :41:14. | :41:17. | |
staff, businesses investing in training. Businesses taking on more | :41:18. | :41:23. | |
premises and all that stuff. Can a minister not shout about th`t? No, I | :41:24. | :41:29. | |
don't think so. I think this should be business lead. | :41:30. | :41:32. | |
Ed Miliband, what he is doing is addressing a problem that hd was | :41:33. | :41:36. | |
partly to blame for. He is trying to answer it with yesterday 's | :41:37. | :41:38. | |
solutions. The Region Development Agency specifically tasked with | :41:39. | :41:41. | |
trying to even out divisions between North and South and it faildd | :41:42. | :41:51. | |
miserably. The Conservatives have encouraged business and that is | :41:52. | :41:57. | |
where growth comes from. He is proposing ?20 billion to be passed | :41:58. | :42:01. | |
on to town halls and authorhties in the regions. That would surdly be | :42:02. | :42:06. | |
welcomed. I think it's bettdr to increase... Instead of incrdasing | :42:07. | :42:08. | |
taxes, it is better to encotrage business, because that is where the | :42:09. | :42:11. | |
growth comes from. The Government has been very practical abott this. | :42:12. | :42:15. | |
What they have done is work with business to remove regulations, to | :42:16. | :42:21. | |
lower taxes. For example, jtst this week we have seen the introduction | :42:22. | :42:24. | |
of a ?2000 saving for emploxers in national insurance. Words are cheap, | :42:25. | :42:27. | |
that is the other problem. The Government has promised this, but | :42:28. | :42:31. | |
not delivered. By saying we have a Regional Minister, that is ` | :42:32. | :42:34. | |
promise, a commitment to how we will make that delivery. Politichans have | :42:35. | :42:37. | |
made plenty of commitments, but carry on. This is important, but the | :42:38. | :42:40. | |
fact is that the inward invdstment in the Business Department, they can | :42:41. | :42:44. | |
meet all their targets by staying within the M25. It is not strprising | :42:45. | :42:55. | |
that they don't. They should champion business in the North, as | :42:56. | :42:59. | |
Nick Brown did. To champion business, we need a Regional | :43:00. | :43:02. | |
Minister and we also need a strong voice. Not at all, you champion | :43:03. | :43:09. | |
business by working with businesses to see how you can encouragd them, | :43:10. | :43:13. | |
how you can provide the right conditions. They don't do that in | :43:14. | :43:19. | |
Whitehall. I think it is not true. We have had the red tape | :43:20. | :43:22. | |
challenges. 800 regulations being scrapped, a further 3000 re`dy to | :43:23. | :43:25. | |
go. Just recently, the wastd transfer notices, that was 23 | :43:26. | :43:28. | |
million bits of paper every year to be produced and to be stored and it | :43:29. | :43:32. | |
has been scrapped ` now a shmplified online system. It makes bushness | :43:33. | :43:38. | |
more profitable. Very briefly. Businesses need investment `nd | :43:39. | :43:40. | |
support, deregulation is grdat, but to get businesses going we need to | :43:41. | :43:44. | |
have the banks lending and people being championed. | :43:45. | :43:50. | |
OK. And a Regional Minister does not solve that. We won't agree on that. | :43:51. | :43:55. | |
Now, councils are up against it we know that, with millions of pounds | :43:56. | :43:59. | |
of savings to be made. So it's perhaps no surprise that in Cumbria | :44:00. | :44:02. | |
the County Council has decided to introduce on`street car parking | :44:03. | :44:05. | |
charges. It's unpopular, but it s an attempt to raise vital cash to keep | :44:06. | :44:07. | |
services running. A week in and it is already proving | :44:08. | :44:22. | |
a popular policy. I was elated, I did not know it was | :44:23. | :44:26. | |
free, so went to put the money in and I saw the cover was on. Really | :44:27. | :44:33. | |
good. Wonderful. Very welcole. I hope it attracts visitors. We have | :44:34. | :44:38. | |
only just discovered it tod`y. We came from Liverpool yesterd`y, so we | :44:39. | :44:41. | |
were delighted. Local traders are hoping it will boost business. | :44:42. | :44:46. | |
Retail is very difficult at the moment. We need more people. We have | :44:47. | :44:51. | |
to wait and see ` see what sort of results we get. Free parking will | :44:52. | :45:01. | |
cost the County Council mord than ?2 million. It has not been rolled out | :45:02. | :45:10. | |
everywhere. Six parish councils are going to carry on charging `s they | :45:11. | :45:13. | |
say it helps with traffic management. The County Council says | :45:14. | :45:16. | |
free parking will bring bendfits. We have looked at the circumst`nces in | :45:17. | :45:19. | |
our county, Northumberland, and we think that this may be a solution | :45:20. | :45:22. | |
for businesses through the recession, as well as maint`ining | :45:23. | :45:25. | |
viable High Streets for the residents to use. I hope it works. | :45:26. | :45:29. | |
If not, we will go to the drawing board. Over the border in Ctmbria, | :45:30. | :45:36. | |
the tide is turning the othdr way. After years of free on`stredt | :45:37. | :45:39. | |
parking, the county council's bringing in charges. Due to the | :45:40. | :45:46. | |
austerity measures, the budget cuts, unprecedented cuts that councils are | :45:47. | :45:49. | |
facing, we are just hoping to recover costs, not to make loney, | :45:50. | :45:57. | |
we're just recovering costs. The changes aren't welcome. Not | :45:58. | :46:01. | |
impressed. As a businessman in the town, I have a business down the | :46:02. | :46:05. | |
street, it is just trying to get more money out of the gener`l | :46:06. | :46:12. | |
public. I think it will put people off coming in. If you just need to | :46:13. | :46:19. | |
nip in and nip to the bank, you will think twice. The arguments for and | :46:20. | :46:22. | |
against charging for parking seemed compelling, whether it is town | :46:23. | :46:25. | |
centre recovery or council budget balancing. In a year's time, Cumbria | :46:26. | :46:28. | |
or Northumberland could be rueing their decision. | :46:29. | :46:41. | |
Cutting parking charges, elhminating them, is this something you have | :46:42. | :46:46. | |
considered? Is it something that should be considered? When the | :46:47. | :46:51. | |
Conservatives were in chargd, we introduced two hours of fred | :46:52. | :46:56. | |
parking. We felt that was a welcome contribution to encouraging people | :46:57. | :46:59. | |
to come into the town to have a look around and have a coughing. I think | :47:00. | :47:05. | |
that is important. As counchls are now looking at other measurds and | :47:06. | :47:08. | |
Northumberland is an interesting example, I think the situathon | :47:09. | :47:12. | |
should be reviewed. Having worked in small businesses, I know how | :47:13. | :47:17. | |
important it is. If you havd free parking, that is often raisdd. I | :47:18. | :47:26. | |
think it is concerning, but a suggestion that was suggestdd at the | :47:27. | :47:29. | |
last council meeting that wd should follow Northumberland's lead was | :47:30. | :47:36. | |
treated with derision. Councils don't have the money. The rdason | :47:37. | :47:41. | |
that grants are being produced is that the Government is trying to | :47:42. | :47:44. | |
sort out the financial mess that the Labour left us. So councils cannot | :47:45. | :47:51. | |
do anything about it. SUNY to manage your resources better. We h`ve | :47:52. | :47:55. | |
introduced share services whth Northumberland. `` you need to. | :47:56. | :47:59. | |
Could you see this happening in Newcastle? Just to say that the | :48:00. | :48:07. | |
Northern councils are being cut disproportionately in comparison | :48:08. | :48:10. | |
with ones in the South. But I think it is important is to get the | :48:11. | :48:17. | |
balance right. Alive after five initiative is all about encouraging | :48:18. | :48:21. | |
people into the city at night to shop, to increase the econoly. But | :48:22. | :48:28. | |
you are competing with the Letro Centre. That is right. And Newcastle | :48:29. | :48:36. | |
has other attractions, as wdll, and it has Eldon Square which h`s the | :48:37. | :48:42. | |
highest football in the country outside London. It is important to | :48:43. | :48:48. | |
get the balance right. Is the balance right at the moment? I get a | :48:49. | :48:55. | |
lot of complaints from constituents about parking, particularly parking | :48:56. | :48:59. | |
at the weekend, whether charges remain the same. I think it is | :49:00. | :49:03. | |
important is to keep the situation under review. I will be raising this | :49:04. | :49:09. | |
as an issue with the council. But I think we do have the balancd more or | :49:10. | :49:15. | |
less right, I hope we can dhscuss ways going forward, not with the | :49:16. | :49:19. | |
pressure... Not because of cost saving or because we don't have the | :49:20. | :49:23. | |
money, but because it is important for the local economy and it is | :49:24. | :49:27. | |
important for encouraging ptblic transport. Now, campaigning has | :49:28. | :49:32. | |
begun for the European elections in May, and first out of the blocks | :49:33. | :49:36. | |
this week were the Liberal Democrats. Their party preshdent and | :49:37. | :49:38. | |
Cumbrian MP Tim Farron was hn Newcastle on Wednesday to l`unch the | :49:39. | :49:42. | |
campaign. But perhaps their keenness to get out there might be connected | :49:43. | :49:45. | |
with the struggle they might have to retain their existing seat hn the | :49:46. | :49:49. | |
North East. I put it to Tim Farron that this was all about dam`ge | :49:50. | :49:53. | |
limitation. They are a funny thing this time. | :49:54. | :49:56. | |
The European elections, the first time in living memory they `re about | :49:57. | :50:00. | |
Europe and the choice the pdople have is very clear. UKIP, for all | :50:01. | :50:03. | |
that I think they are wrong and risking the 150,000 jobs in the | :50:04. | :50:07. | |
North East that depend on Etrope, nevertheless they have a cldar | :50:08. | :50:10. | |
position. If you want to le`ve the European Union, you vote UKHP. If | :50:11. | :50:14. | |
however you think those jobs are worth fighting for, and Britain s | :50:15. | :50:17. | |
role in the world is worth fighting for, and the peace and security is | :50:18. | :50:21. | |
worth fighting for, there's only one party that is party of in. This is a | :50:22. | :50:26. | |
two horse race in many ways` if you vote Labour or Tory, your vote will | :50:27. | :50:32. | |
be wasted. You would like to think that, but the polls suggest that | :50:33. | :50:35. | |
most people don't agree with you and they won't vote Liberal Democrat. We | :50:36. | :50:41. | |
saw the polls after the Nick Clegg and Nigel Farage contest, and I | :50:42. | :50:44. | |
thought our guy won, but thd majority of people felt that they | :50:45. | :50:49. | |
supported the other guy. We know that we have picked the unpopular | :50:50. | :50:54. | |
argument in this contest. That is your problem, isn't it? People are | :50:55. | :51:02. | |
sceptical. People are hostile to it. Correct. I think people are | :51:03. | :51:05. | |
undecided about the European Union and whether our place is in it. But | :51:06. | :51:09. | |
others think, hang about, the EU is not perfect, there is a lot wrong | :51:10. | :51:12. | |
with it, but the world outshde is dangerous and not least dangerous | :51:13. | :51:16. | |
for our jobs here in the North of England. So Nick showed real bravery | :51:17. | :51:20. | |
by taking the unpopular sidd of the argument and nevertheless one in | :51:21. | :51:23. | |
three people agree with Nick on that issue and that is all we nedd to | :51:24. | :51:27. | |
retain our seats. We will sde if you are right about voters' intdntions, | :51:28. | :51:31. | |
you know that a lot of your colleagues have lost their seats, | :51:32. | :51:33. | |
they have lost their seats hn Newcastle. How long can that keep | :51:34. | :51:38. | |
happening and you can justify being in coalition? We were at Grdy's | :51:39. | :51:41. | |
Monument, celebrating a gre`t Liberal Prime Minister. In 0900 it | :51:42. | :51:52. | |
was the last time that therd was a Liberal Democrat midterm, so we know | :51:53. | :51:56. | |
we knew were in Government, it's a hard thing to do to defend council | :51:57. | :52:03. | |
seat up and down the countrx. Here in Newcastle, we have disappointing | :52:04. | :52:07. | |
results in 2011, good results in 2012. There is clear progress. We're | :52:08. | :52:12. | |
expecting to defend what we've got, to begin and my confidence | :52:13. | :52:16. | |
prediction is that before this decade is out, the Liberal Democrats | :52:17. | :52:20. | |
will regain control of Newc`stle City Council. There is a cldar | :52:21. | :52:24. | |
message across the North East, slightly different to the Etropean | :52:25. | :52:29. | |
elections, there is an uneldcted monolith that controls peoples | :52:30. | :52:32. | |
lives, it is not Europe, is the Labour Party. | :52:33. | :52:35. | |
Cumbrian MP Tim Farron. And we'll be speaking to European election | :52:36. | :52:38. | |
candidates from all the main parties on the programme next month. | :52:39. | :52:41. | |
Now, staying with voting and when Scotland goes to the polls hn | :52:42. | :52:44. | |
September to decide whether to go independent, 16 and 17`year`olds | :52:45. | :52:48. | |
will for the first time be `ble to cast a vote. | :52:49. | :52:50. | |
And that means the referendtm is a hot topic in school classroom on the | :52:51. | :52:54. | |
Borders where some teenage pupils will be voting, while friends living | :52:55. | :52:57. | |
in England have no say. Davhd Rhodes reports. | :52:58. | :53:03. | |
800 pupils go to the school, the majority live in England. A small | :53:04. | :53:07. | |
number cross every day. That means that some 16 and 17`year`olds here | :53:08. | :53:10. | |
will make history in September by casting a vote in the Scotthsh | :53:11. | :53:16. | |
independence referendum. Yasmin lives in Coldstream and is one of | :53:17. | :53:20. | |
those having her say on Scotland's future. I will probably be voting no | :53:21. | :53:25. | |
because of the fact that I don't think that the country has dnough | :53:26. | :53:28. | |
information. Information on what they plan to do if they do get | :53:29. | :53:36. | |
independence. Alanis, who is also 17, lives in Berwick. Her f`mily | :53:37. | :53:39. | |
comes from Glasgow, but livhng in England means she does not get a | :53:40. | :53:50. | |
vote. About half of us do, `nd half of us don't. It makes is | :53:51. | :53:54. | |
frustrating, because it will have as much of an impact on us as them | :53:55. | :53:58. | |
Will giving 16 and 17`year`olds a vote in the referendum encotrage | :53:59. | :54:01. | |
teenagers to get more involved in politics? I think the reason why | :54:02. | :54:06. | |
many young people don't havd that much interest in politics or who is | :54:07. | :54:09. | |
in charge of them, basicallx, is because of the fact that parties do | :54:10. | :54:18. | |
not reach out to us young pdople. The Government has no plans to give | :54:19. | :54:22. | |
under 18s the vote in next xear s general election. If a future | :54:23. | :54:24. | |
Government took that step, the headteacher here is not convinced | :54:25. | :54:28. | |
there will be much impact. H think there is a tendency for young people | :54:29. | :54:32. | |
to be very influenced by thdir parents and their parents' | :54:33. | :54:38. | |
politics. As people get olddr, they are influenced by a much grdater | :54:39. | :54:46. | |
collection of ideas. So if the voting age was lowered, you don t | :54:47. | :54:49. | |
think it would make a difference? I think there is a danger it just | :54:50. | :54:53. | |
becomes an extra vote for their parentss. Whatever the outcome, one | :54:54. | :54:56. | |
thing is certain, Yasmin and teenagers like her will plax their | :54:57. | :54:59. | |
role in deciding whether a 300`year`old political union should | :55:00. | :55:07. | |
be maintained. Scotland has given its 16`ydar`olds | :55:08. | :55:14. | |
the chance to vote, should we? Absolutely. If we are in power, we | :55:15. | :55:20. | |
would give 16 and 17`year`olds the right to vote. I was in a school in | :55:21. | :55:23. | |
my constituency on Friday t`lking to 16 and 17 and 18`year`olds, and they | :55:24. | :55:29. | |
are looking at complex formtlas studying history and doing lany | :55:30. | :55:35. | |
challenging topics. They can pay taxes, they can work, so thdy | :55:36. | :55:42. | |
deserve, I think, they have good articulate voices, and they deserve | :55:43. | :55:49. | |
the right to express them. @lso if it is part of school would heighten | :55:50. | :55:53. | |
citizenship training, it is an opportunity to show the importance | :55:54. | :56:00. | |
of voting. Do you agree or other concerns about whether they are | :56:01. | :56:07. | |
mature enough? My personal view is that it is too young. You c`nnot buy | :56:08. | :56:11. | |
cigarettes or alcohol, I thhnk it is too young. But what is important is | :56:12. | :56:18. | |
that we do explain carefullx to school students how local | :56:19. | :56:24. | |
institutions work. How Parlhament works. I think it is a great pity | :56:25. | :56:31. | |
that there are not groups of young socialists and Young Conservatives | :56:32. | :56:36. | |
when I was young. There may be if you gave them the vote. We did not | :56:37. | :56:43. | |
have the vote and we had th`t. It is important for children to gdt | :56:44. | :56:45. | |
involved in debating and thhngs like that. A lot of petitions ard only | :56:46. | :56:52. | |
entered by people in the independent sector. `` competitions. It is an | :56:53. | :56:56. | |
opportunity to get people to stand up for their views and incrdase | :56:57. | :57:02. | |
their confidence. Giving thd vote is one thing, but a lot would say that | :57:03. | :57:06. | |
politicians don't listen to young people. You are right there. Having | :57:07. | :57:13. | |
the vote is one way of making sure that politicians listen to what the | :57:14. | :57:19. | |
voters are saying. But it is true and I agree that politicians also | :57:20. | :57:24. | |
need to engage more with yotng people on the issues that mdan | :57:25. | :57:27. | |
something to young people. Where I don't agree is that young pdople | :57:28. | :57:34. | |
cannot smoke or buy alcohol, that is dangerous, those are harmful, but | :57:35. | :57:39. | |
democracy is not harmful, it is empowering, liberating and so giving | :57:40. | :57:45. | |
them the voice to ensure th`t they get the attention of politicians | :57:46. | :57:51. | |
should empower young people. And maybe renew our democracy which has | :57:52. | :57:55. | |
many issues with it at the loment. Given that young people with the | :57:56. | :58:00. | |
vote do not have a particul`rly high turnout, I don't think how xou will | :58:01. | :58:04. | |
improve that by lowering thd age to 16. | :58:05. | :58:07. | |
Now, for a look at the rest of the week's news and of all the lany cuts | :58:08. | :58:11. | |
councils have made, shutting care homes must be among the most | :58:12. | :58:13. | |
contentious, especially for the elderly residents and their | :58:14. | :58:16. | |
families. It's an issue which has come up again this week in County | :58:17. | :58:20. | |
Durham. Here's more on that, and the rest of the week's news in 60 | :58:21. | :58:27. | |
seconds. The new look seafront at Whhtley Bay | :58:28. | :58:31. | |
has been opened by an MP. It was paid for in part by the | :58:32. | :58:34. | |
Government's coastal communhties fund. Durham Council is to close its | :58:35. | :58:41. | |
five remaining care homes, ht says they will cost more than ?4 million | :58:42. | :58:47. | |
to renovate. The MP for South Shields has challenged the Prime | :58:48. | :58:52. | |
Minister on the right of a disabled constituent. You'll my constituent | :58:53. | :58:55. | |
suffers from MEF has been w`iting over nine months for her personal | :58:56. | :59:00. | |
independence payments. She now has to borrow from her 84`year`old | :59:01. | :59:04. | |
mother to get by. Why does the Prime Minister think this is acceptable? | :59:05. | :59:09. | |
Or delays in these payments are not acceptable and we have to m`ke sure | :59:10. | :59:14. | |
that benefits are paid on thme. Finally, ?57 million, that hs how | :59:15. | :59:17. | |
much North East firms are gdtting in the latest round of the govdrnor | :59:18. | :59:20. | |
to's growth fund, more than any other region in the country. | :59:21. | :59:28. | |
And, finally, you can rest dasy this afternoon. The leader of thd SNP | :59:29. | :59:34. | |
Alex Salmond has ruled out `ny intention to annexe Cumbria and | :59:35. | :59:36. | |
Northumberland. The question of Scotland's territorial ambitions was | :59:37. | :59:39. | |
raised by a reporter during a Wall Street Journal press conferdnce in | :59:40. | :59:44. | |
New York. There are some northern England | :59:45. | :59:47. | |
counties that don't feel a lot of love from London. Places like | :59:48. | :59:52. | |
Cumbria and Northumberland. Would you take them into Scotland? We have | :59:53. | :59:59. | |
gone from fragmentation to expansion. Actually, the botndaries | :00:00. | :00:08. | |
of Scotland and England which were disputed in the middle ages are | :00:09. | :00:12. | |
actually long`standing boundaries just about on her. `` the most. I | :00:13. | :00:17. | |
have no territorial demands So the invasion is off, that's a | :00:18. | :00:23. | |
relief. Which means we can safely go off on our Easter break. We'll | :00:24. | :00:26. | |
return here on BBC One on M`y fourth. I'll still be standhng guard | :00:27. | :00:30. | |
though so don't forget I'm on Twitter if you want to keep up with | :00:31. | :00:34. | |
what's going on back now to Andrew for the rest of the show. | :00:35. | :00:37. | |
risk. We have run out of time. - particular candidates. Back to you, | :00:38. | :00:47. | |
Andrew. The sun's out, Ed Balls has run the | :00:48. | :00:50. | |
London Marathon, and MPs leave Westminster for their Easter break. | :00:51. | :00:53. | |
Let's discuss what's coming up in the Week Ahead. | :00:54. | :01:04. | |
We will get more of what we have just seen. Let's look back on the | :01:05. | :01:08. | |
debate. What did we learn from the argument is? That it is going to | :01:09. | :01:13. | |
bore and irritate whole lot of people, this election campaign. Four | :01:14. | :01:18. | |
parties shouting at each other about things that most people do not know | :01:19. | :01:21. | |
much about. They know very little about how the European Parliament | :01:22. | :01:26. | |
works, what an MEP is supposed to do. A lot of heat and not a lot of | :01:27. | :01:34. | |
light. I've updated well, all of them, but the net effect is not | :01:35. | :01:38. | |
going to encourage people to go out and vote and not many do. One thing | :01:39. | :01:45. | |
that struck me was that on Europe, the Labour and Lib Dem positions are | :01:46. | :01:50. | |
not that far apart. They are pretty much the same. And yet the knocks | :01:51. | :01:55. | |
lots of each other. I suppose they feel that they had to do that | :01:56. | :01:58. | |
because that is the format. I'd agree with Polly. Their word UKIP | :01:59. | :02:04. | |
and the Tories to attack two we try to make it exciting, and we know the | :02:05. | :02:10. | |
issues are important. But people out there have not heard of these | :02:11. | :02:14. | |
individuals. It is not very exciting. That is worrying because | :02:15. | :02:17. | |
these are huge national questions for us. We need to find a way of | :02:18. | :02:22. | |
making it more fun. People may not know these MEPs, they may not know | :02:23. | :02:29. | |
the detail of the debate, but it is an issue on which people have strong | :02:30. | :02:32. | |
opinions. It is a visceral thing for many people. Especially on the | :02:33. | :02:36. | |
immigration issue. The debate took off and became more vociferous at | :02:37. | :02:43. | |
that point. To a large extent, you wonder whether not only this | :02:44. | :02:47. | |
European election but the eventual referendum will be a referendum on | :02:48. | :02:50. | |
the issue of immigration and free movement. If we did not learn much | :02:51. | :02:54. | |
from the argument, the thing we did learn is that the structure of these | :02:55. | :02:57. | |
televised debate influences the outcome. One of the reasons that | :02:58. | :03:04. | |
Nigel Farage did well in the debate is that in a two-man debate, each | :03:05. | :03:11. | |
man has as good a chance as the other. If it is four people, one man | :03:12. | :03:15. | |
can be ganged up on. Patrick O'Flynn did well for a man who is not an | :03:16. | :03:21. | |
elected politician yet. At times, 40 came under attack and did not hold | :03:22. | :03:24. | |
the line as well as you would expect. Does that create a perverse | :03:25. | :03:28. | |
incentive for the main parties to agree to a four way debate before | :03:29. | :03:33. | |
the general election? I do not think the David Cameron has nearly as much | :03:34. | :03:36. | |
to worry about from a televised debate in the run-up to the | :03:37. | :03:40. | |
elections than his spin doctors believe. When you put him up against | :03:41. | :03:44. | |
Ed Miliband, and we have not actually seen Ed Miliband in that | :03:45. | :03:47. | |
format, I think he will come off all right. This is an election which the | :03:48. | :03:55. | |
polls would have us believe that the battle for first place is between | :03:56. | :04:01. | |
UKIP and labour. It certainly is. Obviously, it is neck and neck and | :04:02. | :04:04. | |
we will not know until we are closer. And it matters a lot to both | :04:05. | :04:09. | |
of them. If Mr Miliband does not come first, that is not good news | :04:10. | :04:13. | |
for the main opposition at this stage. Except to some extent all of | :04:14. | :04:20. | |
the people will put it to one side and say that this is a bizarre | :04:21. | :04:25. | |
election. A plague on both your houses, let's vote UKIP. It is not | :04:26. | :04:29. | |
clear how much that translates into the next election. It is not too | :04:30. | :04:34. | |
disastrous for Labour. It would be better if they came first. If Mr | :04:35. | :04:41. | |
Miliband comes first, not a problem, but it becomes second and UKIP soars | :04:42. | :04:47. | |
away, what are the consequences I think there is a widespread | :04:48. | :04:49. | |
expectation already at Westminster that UKIP is very likely to come | :04:50. | :04:56. | |
first. If Ed Miliband fails to come first, there will not be a great | :04:57. | :04:58. | |
deal of shock in the West Mr village. Else think what is | :04:59. | :05:02. | |
remarkable about Ed Miliband is that despite consistently poor personal | :05:03. | :05:07. | |
leadership approval ratings, the overall Labour poll is consistently | :05:08. | :05:14. | |
very high. We have seen that budget blip, it seems to have taken us back | :05:15. | :05:18. | |
to where we were before. Leadership is not everything. Mrs Thatcher was | :05:19. | :05:23. | |
miles behind James Callaghan but in the end, it was the party politics | :05:24. | :05:29. | |
that mattered more. If Mr Cameron comes third and the Tories come | :05:30. | :05:34. | |
third, maybe a poor third, is it headless chicken time on the Tory | :05:35. | :05:38. | |
backbenchers? It has often been said that the Tory Party has two modes, | :05:39. | :05:42. | |
complacency and panic. You will see them shift into panic mode. By June, | :05:43. | :05:51. | |
I think. Many of the stories in the sun will be about David Cameron s | :05:52. | :05:53. | |
personal leadership and his grip on the party. There will be pressure on | :05:54. | :05:57. | |
conference by the time that comes around. It is a natural consequence | :05:58. | :06:03. | |
of being the incumbent party. The Lib Dems are 7% in two of the polls | :06:04. | :06:10. | |
today. It was widely thought that in the first and second debates, Nigel | :06:11. | :06:15. | |
Farage won both. In retrospect, was the challenge strategy a disaster | :06:16. | :06:22. | |
for Mr Clegg? I do not think it was because he had nothing to lose. But | :06:23. | :06:26. | |
he is lower in the polls than when he started. He has not lost a great | :06:27. | :06:32. | |
deal. The polls were quite often that low. I think it was a good | :06:33. | :06:38. | |
thing to do. It raised his profile. It made him the leading party in. | :06:39. | :06:43. | |
That may be a difficult place to be. That is how you end up with 7% | :06:44. | :06:50. | |
in the polls. The reason he is fighting with Labour is that he | :06:51. | :06:52. | |
knows very well that all he has to do is to get his votes back that | :06:53. | :06:56. | |
have gone to Labour and labour have to fight hard to make sure that they | :06:57. | :07:02. | |
do not go back. Every party looks to where it is going to get it | :07:03. | :07:07. | |
support. If it is a wipe-out for the Lib Dems, and they lose all their | :07:08. | :07:11. | |
MEPs, not saying that is going to happen but you could not rule it out | :07:12. | :07:18. | |
for, are we back in Nick Clegg leadership crisis territory? One of | :07:19. | :07:21. | |
the astonishing things about this Parliament is the relative absence | :07:22. | :07:25. | |
of leadership speculation about Nick Clegg will stop at the first couple | :07:26. | :07:28. | |
of years, his position seems tricky, but maybe that is because | :07:29. | :07:33. | |
Chris Hughton is gone and he was the only plausible candidate. This cable | :07:34. | :07:36. | |
is not getting any younger, to put it delicately. That was not delegate | :07:37. | :07:41. | |
at all! And we have reached a desperate stage where Danny | :07:42. | :07:44. | |
Alexander is talked about as a candidate. That was not delegate | :07:45. | :07:47. | |
either! Maybe he is holding onto power the lack of alternatives. If | :07:48. | :07:53. | |
they ended up with no MEPs at all, and a less than double digits | :07:54. | :08:00. | |
score... With Danny Alexander, it is clear that Scotland, one way or | :08:01. | :08:03. | |
another, will be moving further away. You could not have the leader | :08:04. | :08:09. | |
of a national party be a Scot. But he does not have the following in | :08:10. | :08:14. | |
the party. I'm glad you're liberal attitudes to immigration extends to | :08:15. | :08:17. | |
me. I would not have been here for 43 years. There will be leadership | :08:18. | :08:23. | |
talk after that holes. It has been bubbling in the background, but you | :08:24. | :08:28. | |
have to talk to the grass roots activists. -- after the polls. The | :08:29. | :08:34. | |
grass roots activists are despairing. If things are bad, they | :08:35. | :08:38. | |
lose their network of activists who they need to fight the next | :08:39. | :08:42. | |
election. I think you mean, not that you could have a Scot, but that it | :08:43. | :08:45. | |
would be more difficult to have a Scot from a Scottish constituency. | :08:46. | :08:52. | |
Absolutely. I think a Scottish constituency, so many things will be | :08:53. | :08:56. | |
different. Or to hold the great offices of state. Let's come onto | :08:57. | :09:01. | |
the Crown Prosecution Service is. It is an English institution. Where | :09:02. | :09:06. | |
does the CPS and after losing yet another high-profile case come this | :09:07. | :09:10. | |
time Nigel Evans? They had nine counts against him and they did not | :09:11. | :09:14. | |
win on one. It is obviously very embarrassing. They will have a bit | :09:15. | :09:20. | |
of explain to do but I guess the threshold for bringing these cases | :09:21. | :09:24. | |
is high. There has to be considered at least a 50-50 chance of actually | :09:25. | :09:30. | |
winning the case. We do not know what went on behind the scenes when | :09:31. | :09:33. | |
they weighed up whether to bring the case. Nigel Evans makes an | :09:34. | :09:36. | |
interesting point about whether it is legitimate to bundle together a | :09:37. | :09:40. | |
number of stand-alone relatively weak accusations, and when you put | :09:41. | :09:46. | |
them together to militantly, the CPS uses that to make a case. Is that a | :09:47. | :09:52. | |
legitimate thing to do? He was a high-profile figure, not just | :09:53. | :09:55. | |
because he was a Tory MP. He was the deputy speaker of the House. And yet | :09:56. | :10:03. | |
the CPS are certainly the police, to begin with they did not have that | :10:04. | :10:08. | |
many people to testify against him. And then they trawled for more. You | :10:09. | :10:11. | |
wonder if they would have done that if it was not for the fact that he | :10:12. | :10:15. | |
was a public figure. The trouble is, they are dammed if they do and | :10:16. | :10:18. | |
dammed if they do not. Particularly with politicians and the reputation | :10:19. | :10:21. | |
they have these days, if there is any suggestion that they let | :10:22. | :10:25. | |
somebody off because they are a high-profile politician, and they | :10:26. | :10:29. | |
are saying that about Cyril Smith, that is the accusation. A strange | :10:30. | :10:34. | |
story. Most unlikely and very bizarre. But that is the accusation. | :10:35. | :10:38. | |
If there is any with of that, I can see why the CPS says, we better let | :10:39. | :10:45. | |
the courts try this one. Also, they are in trouble overrated cases | :10:46. | :10:48. | |
because their success rate on bringing people to court for rape is | :10:49. | :10:56. | |
so thin. When it looked as if his accusers were not really accusing | :10:57. | :10:58. | |
him, it looks quite weak. You cannot help but feeling that they are | :10:59. | :11:04. | |
falling over backwards now in high-profile cases because of their | :11:05. | :11:06. | |
abject and total failure over Jimmy Savile. I think this is exactly the | :11:07. | :11:11. | |
kind of case that happens when you are trying to make a point or redeem | :11:12. | :11:16. | |
a reputation or change a culture. All of these big things. As opposed | :11:17. | :11:20. | |
to what criminal justice is supposed to be about, which is specific | :11:21. | :11:23. | |
crimes and specific evidence matching those crimes. The CPS has | :11:24. | :11:27. | |
no copper a fleet joined in this list of public and situations that | :11:28. | :11:31. | |
has taken a fall over the past five or six years. We have had | :11:32. | :11:34. | |
Parliament, the newspapers, the police will stop I think this is as | :11:35. | :11:37. | |
bad a humiliation as any of those because it is Innocent people | :11:38. | :11:41. | |
suffering. You are the most recent, being a lobby correspondent in | :11:42. | :11:44. | |
Westminster, and we now see on Channel 4 News that basically, | :11:45. | :11:48. | |
Westminster is twinned with Sodom and Gomorrah. Yes. I know. Is this | :11:49. | :11:55. | |
true? It is all rather the red. I do not move in those circles. And you | :11:56. | :11:59. | |
were in the lobby at one stage? Not that long ago. Is it right. Is it | :12:00. | :12:05. | |
right to be twinned with Sodom and Gomorrah? I'll ask him for his | :12:06. | :12:09. | |
opinion. Being technically a member of the lobby, I can observe some of | :12:10. | :12:16. | |
this stuff. And what surprises me is that journalists, when the complain | :12:17. | :12:21. | |
about Sodom and Gomorrah, write themselves out of it. It is as if it | :12:22. | :12:24. | |
is just MPs. We are unalloyed and unvarnished. Actually, the fact is | :12:25. | :12:30. | |
it has always been a bit like Sodom and tomorrow. Of course it has. | :12:31. | :12:34. | |
Think about how we have had wave after wave of stories and scandals. | :12:35. | :12:37. | |
But less of it recently. It was I think that attitudes have slightly | :12:38. | :12:43. | |
changed. I'll also think that if you get 650 people in any organisation | :12:44. | :12:49. | |
and you put that much scrutiny on them, you will find an awful lot | :12:50. | :12:53. | |
going on in most people's officers of a scurrilous nature. Even in the | :12:54. | :12:57. | |
BBC In 2013, the public voted for | :12:58. | :14:01. | |
a portrait of At times he's interesting, | :14:02. | :14:03. | |
at times he's very funny, | :14:04. | :14:13. |