08/06/2014 Sunday Politics North East and Cumbria


08/06/2014

Andrew Neil and Richard Moss with the latest political news and debate, including an interview with Shadow Education Secretary Tristram Hunt.


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David Cameron slaps down two of his most senior Cabinet ministers

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over their public row about Islamist extremism in schools.

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And it?s HER special advisor that has to resign.

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We'll talk to the Shadow Education Secretary live

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Should this man become the next President of the EU Commission?

:00:57.:01:00.

David Cameron has staked a lot on stopping Luxembourg Federalist

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But could the arch europhile yet get the top job?

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Here's to the quarter of a million votes.

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And we'll find out why this political party is celebrating with

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a pint down the pub and how their success may have cost UKIP two MEPs.

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In the North East and Cumbrha: The business view on

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Scottish independence from this side of the border.

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And just what is going wrong at the North East Ambulance Servicd?

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Has Boris Johnson deserted the suburbs and become a zone one man?

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And with me our panel of top political journalists,

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who are always squabbling among themselves, Nick Watt, Polly Toynbee

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and Janan Ganesh, who will be tweeting throughout the programme

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This morning's political news is dominated

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by the very public fall-out of Home Secretary Theresa May and

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The high viz blue on blue spat between two senior

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Conservatives centred around the Government's approach to tackling

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The row burst into the open ahead of the publication tomorrow of

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investigations into the so-called Trojan Horse plot in Birmingham

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where it is alleged several state schools have been covertly taken

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Mr Gove told The Times last week he was concerned that the Home Office

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was unwilling to tackle extremism at its roots.

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He said a robust response was needed to drain the swamp.

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In response, Mrs May's special advisor tweeted,

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"why is the Department for Education wanting to blame other people

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Lord knows what more they have overlooked on the subject of the

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An angry David Cameron ordered a speedy inquiry.

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Last night, Mr Gove apologised to the Prime Minister, while Ms May's

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Speaking on the BBC earlier this morning

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this is what Foreign Secretary, William Hague, had to say.

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There's been a disciplinary matter within the Government,

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which the Prime Minister has dealt with in a very firm, clear way.

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There will be discipline in the Government.

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The main thing is the issue itself - tackling extremism in schools.

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The Government will be very clear, very robust about anything that s

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put children at risk - risk to their safety or learning.

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Let's look at the positive of this. Theresa May 's people of saying she

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has come off worse in theirs. Yelena Kushi is no more guilty than Michael

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Gove he was guilty of indiscretion. She is no more guilty. Even during

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13 years of new Labour 's psychodrama, I cannot remember an

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act of hostility quite as naked as direct as publishing on a website

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and intergovernmental letter. It suggests quite a lot of

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conservatives do not think they will win next time. Why would there be a

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leadership spat going on like this unless they thought there was a

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vacancy? Inside the Cabinet, Theresa May is getting quite a bashing. In

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the Sunday Times, someone has reported she is the date from hell.

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She sidles up to people and is nakedly ambitious. I think that is

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interesting. On the whole, nobody will understand the finesse

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differences of opinion. It is not serious, it is not serious, it is

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tactical. It'll be puzzling for most people and will probably fizzle out.

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Has the Prime Minister slapped it down or will it rumble on? On the

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politics of it, it will not fizzle out. What you have is Theresa May is

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deadly serious about replacing David Cameron, not dislodging him but

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replacing him if there is a vacancy. Michael Gove is deadly serious in

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ensuring George Osborne succeeds David Cameron. It will be that

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ongoing political rivalry. What is really interesting about this is the

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Prime Minister is absolutely fed up with both of them. He is fed up with

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Michael Gove full-size gearing of message. He had the row with Nick

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Clegg and he had a row with Theresa May. He named Charles Barr and

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criticised him in a lunch with the times. White brother he is the

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Security adviser at the Home Office. -- he is the security advisor. He is

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fed up with Theresa May for mounting an unannounced leader bid. What

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separates Theresa May from Michael Gove on dealing with extremism? The

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view from Michael Gove is that it shows no interest in Islamic

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extremism until it manifests in violent form. Theresa May is

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criticised for rolling back the programme which the previous Labour

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government introduced to do with the previous Labour government

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introduced to do with the Home Office has been made by other people

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and made when the Home Office was not run by Theresa May but previous

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home secretaries, even dating back to the Conservative government in

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the 1990s. It is about the laxity of the Government. Michael Gove has

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used extraordinary inflammatory language talking about draining the

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swamp. I think Theresa May 's view is you can very easily inflamed

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those emotions and create many more extremists the process. Michael Gove

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would say that his approach is entirely consistent with the speech

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the Prime Minister made to the Munich Security conference in 2 11

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when the Prime Minister talked about how extremists

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warp the grape great religion of Islam. The Birmingham school system

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is going to be one of the most reported systems in Europe.

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Joining me now from Kent is Shadow Education Secretary Tristram Hunt.

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Should parents of Birmingham children be worried that some of

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their schools are in the grip of an Islamist takeover? I think parents

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in Birmingham schools will be very disappointed by the political

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infighting going on in the Government. The briefings, the

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resignations, the apologies. The real apology that Michael Gove needs

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to deliver it to the pupil -- the pupils and parents of Birmingham.

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There was a potential threat of radicalisation. He fell to act for

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four years. The Labour Party is asking, when did he know the fact

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that radicalisation could have been taking place? What has been going on

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for the last four years? What we in the Labour Party want to see if much

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stronger systems of local oversight and accountability to situations

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like this do not arise again. Is there, in your view, if some of the

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Birmingham schools, an Islamist takeover? What we have seen in the

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leaked Ofsted report so far is fears about cultural isolation and an

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overconcentration on Islamic teaching within the curriculum. We

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want young people to celebrate their cultural identity, celebrate

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themselves as Muslims. We also want them to have an education which

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makes them succeed in multicultural 21st-century Birmingham. We want to

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be quite tough on moves towards gender segregation, a restricted

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curriculum. Birmingham is a multicultural city. We need an

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education system which celebrates that. What is wrong with gender

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segregation? You went to an all boys school. Where you have gender

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segregation, we have had a long tradition in Catholic schooling

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Where you have a state education system, which is about gender

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equality between boys and girls and there is an unofficial policy of

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gender segregation, that is unacceptable. We should not be

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tarring communities with the same brush in terms of radicalisation. We

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do want to see a successful, multicultural education. Two years

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ago, Ofsted rated Parkview as outstanding. Now it looks like

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tomorrow it is going into special measures. What is it up to? I do

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think there is an issue for Ofsted that you can go from outstanding to

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inadequate so quickly. That is why we are asking for a new criteria to

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be introduced to look at a broad and balanced curriculum. We have healthy

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sex and relationship education. There is a real issue this morning

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as the BBC has been reporting on the night for the Department of

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Education. We are hearing that some of those involved in the schools

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were not allowed to open a free school on security grounds. They

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were allowed to allow one of the schools to be taken over as an

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academy. We have a lack of oversight and accountability in schools within

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Birmingham. What the Labour Party wants is a local director of school

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standards to make sure we challenge underperformance and make sure we

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get in confronting Islamic extremism when it was in power? I was speaking

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to Hazel blears and she was very clear about the prevent programme

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which they rolled out when in office. A very atomised and

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fragmented school system where every school is looked at from behind a

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desk in Whitehall and he put that together and you do have an

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increased risk of chances of radicalisation. You have attacked Mr

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Gove for gross negligence. Was it the same -- you attacked Mr Gove for

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gross negligence. We are dealing with a government which has been in

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since 2010. The Government needs to hold the executive to account. We

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note the Department Michael Gove was warned by a senior and respected

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head teacher about fears over radicalism. What did he know and

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what did he act upon? We are hearing more reports of conversations about

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fears, about radicalisation, taking over some of the governing bodies of

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schools. We need to know what ministers did. Let me continue. You

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mention the capital to prevent strategy. Was it gross negligence

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for Labour to regularly consult a man who once headed a group

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dedicated to making Britain an Islamic state and wrote a book about

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schools full of Taliban style decrees. I think the events in

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Birmingham are enormously significant. About the nature of

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multiculturalism, the nature of education, the role of civic

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education, the role of faith schools. I will say to you this

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morning that Birmingham City Council, Ofsted, the Labour Party,

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the Department for Education were all involved in this conversation.

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In 2010, ministers were warned about potential radicalisation of schools

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and they fell to act. We need to know why, for years on, they allowed

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this situation to exacerbate. When you look at the record of labour and

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this government 's record, there are plenty of examples where both of you

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fail to act. Would it not be better to drop the party politics and get

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together to confront this problem for the sake of the children? There

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are a number of reports going on in Birmingham. Some are led by the city

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council, some by the Department for Education. Labour MPs this morning

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have come forward with the Bishop of Birmingham talking about faith in

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schools. If you have a minister failing to do their job, if you have

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a minister being given warnings in 2010 and failing to act on them for

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four years, the opposition has a role to hold the executive to

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account. This is about the safety and standards of teaching for pupils

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in Birmingham schools. It is about a great education for these young

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people so they can succeed in a modern, multicultural Britain. Do

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you agree with your Shadow Cabinet colleague, Rachel Reeves, that

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Labour' as core voters are abandoning the party? She was

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building on what Ed said the day after the elections in Berwick. We

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have to make sure those communities who we historically represent regard

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Labour as having a successful message for them. I am passionate

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about making sure we have great vocational and technical education,

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the great academic education in our schools. If we have more work to do

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to get people to the polling booths, we must do that. We must

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with listen to what she says. David Cameron has staked a lot on

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stopping the former PM of Luxembourg - named by one newspaper as 'the

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most dangerous man in Europe' because of his federalist views -

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from becoming the next president Mr Cameron has reportedly described

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Jean Claude Juncker as a 'face from the 80s who cannot solve the

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problems of the next five years . But with the German Chancellor

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Angela Merkel publicly backing Mr Juncker, it's not a dead cert that

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Mr Cameron can stop his appointment. This is what he had to say at the G7

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summit earlier this week: It is important that we have people

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running the institutions of Europe who understand the need for change

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and reform. I would argue that view is widely shared amongst other heads

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of government and heads of state in the European Union. I am clear what

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I want to achieve for Britain's future, to secure Britain's placed

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in a reformed European Union and I have a strategy for delivering

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that, a strategy for dealing with an issue which I think if we walk away

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from it would see Britain drift towards the exits.

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We've been joined from Berlin by the German MEP Elmar Brok who is

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a senior figure in the EPP - that's the party backing Mr Juncker.

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He's also Chairman of the Union of European Federalists.

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And in our Newcastle newsroom is the former Conservative MEP Martin

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Callanan who until last month led the European Conservatives

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and Reformists group in Brussels. Welcome to you both.

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The United Kingdom, Sweden, Hungary, they don't want Mr Junker, the new

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Italian Prime Minister doesn't look keen either, should he bow out

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gracefully? First of all, he wants to have Mr Junker but he wants to

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have his conditions. Will he become president of the European Council, a

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high representative? It is a discussion to be had in the next

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three or four weeks until the European Parliament can elect the

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president of the European Council after the proposal of the European

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Council, which has to be done after consultation with the Parliament in

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the light of the European elections and by a majority vote. If not Mr

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Junker, then who? There are many available candidates, I am not going

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to mention them in front of someone so esteemed as Elmar Brok. Give us

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one name that you would prefer? The prime Minister of Sweden, Christine

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Lagarde, the minister from Lithuania, these are people who have

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a record of old reform. Junker is the ultimate Europe insider. We need

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radical inform. We need to respond to the message the electorate gave

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us in the elections -- radical reform. Junker said he had to lie in

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public, he allowed the security services to conduct a dirty tricks

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campaign against his opponent. This is not who we want leading the

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European Commission. Elmar Brok since the European voters have sent

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a message to the parliament that they are not happy with the status

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quo, why would you want a man who is synonymous with the status quo?

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First of all what Martin has said is wrong. He has not done tricks

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against his opponents. He was very clear on that. He is also the man

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who was always for changes. He made dramatic changes as head of the Euro

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group, came out of the economic crisis which was a result of the

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financial crisis, made politics possible, to stop this incredible

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financial sector influence of our states. I believe he is a man who

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works on the programme which Mrs Merkel and others have decided in

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Dublin, for the reform of the European Union, less government But

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we need Europe more and he is not a man from the 80s. He is a man of

:19:58.:20:01.

this century and in this century he made his own policy. He is the

:20:02.:20:05.

winner of the European elections, he has a majority will stop Mrs

:20:06.:20:09.

LANguard is not running because she knows she will not get the majority

:20:10.:20:14.

in the European Parliament. -- Christine Lagarde is not running. It

:20:15.:20:21.

is the Council of minister is that decides. No, the European Parliament

:20:22.:20:28.

has the final word. The European Council can make a proposal by

:20:29.:20:32.

majority in the light of the European elections after

:20:33.:20:33.

consultation with the European Parliament. The council cannot get a

:20:34.:20:38.

candidate against the will of the European Parliament. Mr Junker has a

:20:39.:20:45.

majority in the European Parliament. Theoretically he is right, the

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Parliament has do vote on the candidates proposed by the council.

:20:49.:20:52.

I want to challenge the view that somehow he won the European

:20:53.:20:57.

elections. There is no provision for Jean Claude Junker to stand in the

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elections. He is saying that the EEP party got the most number of seats

:21:02.:21:05.

in the Parliament but none of the electorate knew they were taking

:21:06.:21:09.

part in this election. How many people who voted Labour in the

:21:10.:21:12.

United Kingdom realised that their vote would count towards a German

:21:13.:21:17.

socialist to be a candidate for the commission of presidency is a

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nonsensical proposal. The elections were 28 individual elections with

:21:25.:21:27.

hundreds of parties across Europe. To try to claim there is a

:21:28.:21:31.

democratic mandate for somebody nobody has heard from Luxembourg to

:21:32.:21:33.

take over the commission is a nonsense. People should know him, if

:21:34.:21:51.

I should say that ironically. Newspapers talking about members of

:21:52.:21:54.

the family of his wife with Nazi links... What is the answer to

:21:55.:22:03.

Martin Callinan's point? I think it is clear that British Conservatives

:22:04.:22:06.

have no candidate because they are not a broad European family, they

:22:07.:22:11.

have not impacted on the selection of top candidates but it is a form

:22:12.:22:15.

of isolation of the British Tory Party. The Prime Minister said if Mr

:22:16.:22:22.

Junker is appointed it could lead to Britain drifting towards the EU

:22:23.:22:26.

exit, is that credible? Is it melodramatic? It is true that we

:22:27.:22:31.

want to renegotiate the relationship. We want some serious

:22:32.:22:34.

reform in Europe so the people who vote in a referendum will be able to

:22:35.:22:40.

vote to stay in if that is what they want. We need a bold reformer,

:22:41.:22:46.

somebody prepared to engage. That is not anti the interests of the UK. We

:22:47.:22:51.

need to recognise there is a problem with public perception of the

:22:52.:22:54.

European Union. Elmar Brok is proud to be one of the last bastions of

:22:55.:22:57.

federalism that that is not where most of the public opinion is in

:22:58.:23:01.

Europe. I understand why he wants his man installed but we need to

:23:02.:23:07.

take into account the message of the letter -- the electorate. 25% of the

:23:08.:23:13.

publishing of France were prepared to vote for an openly racist party.

:23:14.:23:19.

We can't just ignore the signal that the electorate were sending us. If

:23:20.:23:25.

enthusiasm for federalism was at an all-time low, it would be a slap in

:23:26.:23:29.

the face for the voters of Europe to have a federalist as the president,

:23:30.:23:36.

would it not? 70, 80% of the members of the European Parliament, selected

:23:37.:23:41.

by their people, are pro-Europeans. These are the winners of the

:23:42.:23:45.

European elections. Even in France, a majority of voters have voted

:23:46.:23:48.

pro-European and that should be clear, not to make this a populist

:23:49.:23:52.

thing which is not only to do with Europe. And we want to have a Europe

:23:53.:24:04.

which is strong, the member states should do their things. We do not

:24:05.:24:10.

want to have a European centralism, we do not want a European state

:24:11.:24:14.

This is not at stake. Let's talk about the question of better

:24:15.:24:18.

governance, let's talk about what was wrong in the past, we have to

:24:19.:24:22.

become better, to change our programme in that question. That

:24:23.:24:27.

should be the way we lead to come to positive results. Thank you for

:24:28.:24:34.

that. Before we go, there is a British commissioner that needs to

:24:35.:24:37.

be appointed to Brussels, do you like the sound of that? These are

:24:38.:24:42.

matters for the Prime Minister, I am sure he has many excellent

:24:43.:24:48.

candidates. Do you like the sound of it? Like previous British

:24:49.:24:56.

commissioners, Chris Patten, Neil clinic, I have just lost an election

:24:57.:25:00.

-- Neil Kinnock for the everybody who is asked would serve, I'm sure.

:25:01.:25:06.

Just days ago UKIP were celebrating topping the poll in the European

:25:07.:25:09.

They're claiming they'd have had two more MEPs

:25:10.:25:15.

and the Greens two fewer had another party not confused the electorate.

:25:16.:25:18.

What's more UKIP say it's the fault of the body

:25:19.:25:21.

which was set up to oversee elections - the Electoral Commission

:25:22.:25:24.

This is a party celebrating success at the European elections. They

:25:25.:25:37.

didn't win a single MEP but nationally polled 250,000 votes

:25:38.:25:43.

They are an independence from Europe, mostly people who were once

:25:44.:25:47.

in UKIP, and that is rather the point. They may look like capers,

:25:48.:26:06.

drink like capers, sound like capers -- -- sound like kippers, but they

:26:07.:26:14.

are not. The name and the logo were displayed on this banner when the

:26:15.:26:17.

party launched its campaign. UKIP suggest the look, the wording and

:26:18.:26:23.

the inclusion of UK in now confused voters, and are looking at rewriting

:26:24.:26:28.

such a wrong. The way that seats are allocated in a European election

:26:29.:26:32.

under a proportional representation system is using this formula. It was

:26:33.:26:38.

invented by a Belgian mathematician in 1878 and it is essentially this.

:26:39.:26:45.

When all of the votes have been tallied up, the one with the most

:26:46.:26:49.

seats gets the first MEPC in a region. The others are allocated

:26:50.:26:52.

using votes cast divided by the number of seats gained plus one --

:26:53.:27:02.

first MEP seat in a region. UKIP were concerned with South West and

:27:03.:27:07.

London. There they say, when the last MEP seats were being allocated,

:27:08.:27:11.

if everyone who had voted for an independence from Europe had meant

:27:12.:27:15.

to vote for UKIP and you tallied their votes up, and added them to

:27:16.:27:19.

UKIP, UKIP would have been up one in each region and the greens would

:27:20.:27:27.

have lost them. Whether you can prove that voters did that by

:27:28.:27:29.

mistake is a very different matter. UKIP may have to just chalk it up to

:27:30.:27:37.

experience. It has happened before, back in the European elections of

:27:38.:27:42.

1994. Then in England under the first past the post system. This

:27:43.:27:48.

man, Richard Huggett, decided to stand as a little Democrat and

:27:49.:27:50.

polled a significant number of votes. The Liberal Democrat

:27:51.:27:57.

candidate at the time is now an MP. Many people voted and afterwards

:27:58.:28:04.

realised that they had bubbly voted for -- probably voted for a little

:28:05.:28:08.

Democrat, not a Liberal Democrat as they had been intending to do -

:28:09.:28:15.

bubbly voted for a literal Democrat -- probably voted.

:28:16.:28:22.

Mr Sanders got some consolation In 1998, laws came into rule on

:28:23.:28:30.

so-called spoiler tactics and the Electoral Commission was

:28:31.:28:33.

established. The Electoral Commission are based on the seventh

:28:34.:28:36.

floor of this building and they did look into this issue prior to

:28:37.:28:40.

voting. They have given us a statement that reveals the

:28:41.:28:43.

conclusion they came to, part of which says, we decided that the name

:28:44.:28:47.

of the party, and its description are sufficiently different to those

:28:48.:28:52.

registered by the UK Independence Party, UKIP, to mean, in our

:28:53.:28:57.

opinion, that voters were not likely to be confused if they appeared on

:28:58.:29:00.

the same ballot paper. Pretty conclusive stuff. Back at the pub,

:29:01.:29:07.

were an independence from Europe just being crafty, or do UKIP need

:29:08.:29:12.

to wake up and smell the flowers? We attack them in all areas. An

:29:13.:29:18.

independent study for Anglo Netherlands because I was involved

:29:19.:29:21.

in the Dutch -- with the Dutch member of Parliament and the

:29:22.:29:26.

description was UK Independence now, nobody has a monopoly on the word

:29:27.:29:31.

independence. I have been fighting for independence since I started in

:29:32.:29:37.

1994, before I joined UKIP. The party tell me they will stand again

:29:38.:29:41.

at the general election next year. The ironies not lost on them or the

:29:42.:29:48.

major parties of UKIP complaining that a smaller party has been taking

:29:49.:29:49.

votes of them. Joining me now to discuss

:29:50.:29:58.

this story is Gawain Towler. He's the UKIP candidate for the

:29:59.:30:02.

South West region, who failed to get And in our Bristol studios is

:30:03.:30:05.

the victorious Green MEP for How many of the 23,000 votes that

:30:06.:30:20.

were cast for the Independence party were meant for you? Impossible to

:30:21.:30:25.

tell. I want to congratulate Molly for getting elected. They are the

:30:26.:30:31.

breaks. I do not think there is a purpose in complaining about boats

:30:32.:30:38.

that are cast. Do you think you would have one otherwise? Yes, I do.

:30:39.:30:46.

You have to look at the would have one otherwise? Yes, I do.

:30:47.:30:49.

You have to look boats for parties people have not heard of and those

:30:50.:30:52.

with a long tradition that people have heard of. I do not think there

:30:53.:30:59.

is any doubt. If you saw the spoiled ballot papers, the amount of people

:31:00.:31:05.

who had voted at the top and the bottom, most people are not anoraks,

:31:06.:31:11.

they say, they are the people I want. They know what they are after.

:31:12.:31:25.

I think it is at least told. It is said you owe your seat to And

:31:26.:31:34.

Independence Party. It is strange for a man to say he could represent

:31:35.:31:38.

people in the south-west better than me. There has been outpouring of

:31:39.:31:45.

delight that a Green MP has finally been elected. A number of people

:31:46.:31:52.

have been saying they have been voting all their lives and it is the

:31:53.:31:55.

first time they have elected anybody. I am glad to represent them

:31:56.:32:01.

in a significant legislature. What would you say to that? I find it

:32:02.:32:07.

strange. I am perfectly happy for her to be elected. I feel the

:32:08.:32:14.

electoral commission has questions to answer. But, congratulations to

:32:15.:32:20.

Molly. Why do you want an extra seat for the Greens in the European

:32:21.:32:24.

Parliament but your national share of the vote actually fell. We did

:32:25.:32:31.

come under pressure nationally. If he is complaining about the role the

:32:32.:32:34.

election commission said we could stand, the rule we were not happy

:32:35.:32:40.

with was the off, ruling which said we were not a main party. We got

:32:41.:32:44.

significantly less media time and that is why our belt actually fell.

:32:45.:32:51.

Not on the Daily Politics or the Sunday Politics, where you were well

:32:52.:32:59.

represented. Was it a problem for UKIP in other parts of the country?

:33:00.:33:07.

Only in London. What do you think happened there? Very much the same.

:33:08.:33:21.

I do not think there is any doubt, the number of people we have had

:33:22.:33:24.

getting in touch saying, I am really sorry, I made a mess, that they

:33:25.:33:29.

voted for the wrong party. They are the breaks. Politics is politics.

:33:30.:33:34.

What I would like to see and what is reasonable, and I hope Molly would

:33:35.:33:41.

agree, there needs to be a reform - a serious reform of the Electoral

:33:42.:33:46.

Commission. There is no appeal process. They say it is not

:33:47.:33:50.

confusing. Lets see if she thinks that. I make it a policy never to

:33:51.:33:58.

agree with UKIP. What is important to note, if you look at the votes

:33:59.:34:02.

and the way the votes fell out and the seats fell out in the

:34:03.:34:06.

south-west, it is difficult for an Electoral Commission to turn boats

:34:07.:34:11.

into seats. UKIP got 33% of the vote and 33% of the seats. For them, the

:34:12.:34:17.

system worked very well in the south-west. Nationally, Greens did

:34:18.:34:23.

not get represented as the vote share would require. That is because

:34:24.:34:27.

you get very small number of seats in the different regions and you

:34:28.:34:32.

have to reach a high threshold. The Green Party has a right to complain

:34:33.:34:36.

about the level of seats we have ended up with. White rapper you have

:34:37.:34:39.

complaints about the Electoral Commission? We need to move to a

:34:40.:34:46.

proportional system for elections generally. If we poll around 7% 8%,

:34:47.:34:52.

we should be looking at having 0, 40 seats in the national

:34:53.:34:57.

legislature. We need to consider proportional representation for

:34:58.:35:00.

national elections. Do you accept the ballot paper may have confused

:35:01.:35:05.

some people? I think what happened is that some people in UKIP were

:35:06.:35:07.

very worried. Worried about the is that some people in UKIP were

:35:08.:35:14.

rightward move of UKIP and the authoritarian leadership of Nigel

:35:15.:35:18.

Farage. He set up a separate party. That is what happens in politics,

:35:19.:35:23.

particularly when parties are led by demagogues and are not focused on

:35:24.:35:34.

Democratic policy. Do you have any legal redress to this? None

:35:35.:35:39.

whatsoever. Have you had legal advice? I am told there is no

:35:40.:35:48.

redress. We do feel, I am sure Molly does not agree with UKIP on anything

:35:49.:35:53.

so, if we say the sun rises in the morning, she probably will disagree

:35:54.:35:58.

with that. If, at the next election, there is a party called the Grown

:35:59.:36:06.

Party, will she then complain? There needs to be some level of

:36:07.:36:11.

accountability and, without that, one wonders what is going on. We

:36:12.:36:17.

have an organisation with enormous and important power and influence

:36:18.:36:21.

which is setup to stop this of thing going on. It has failed. Not has it

:36:22.:36:28.

has failed. Not present served in Tower Hamlets and there have been

:36:29.:36:31.

massive problems with postal votes. It is failing on almost everything

:36:32.:36:38.

it is supposed to do. Just to go back for a final point from Molly.

:36:39.:36:42.

Should there be a right of appeal to the rulings of the Electoral

:36:43.:36:47.

Commission? You need to have an authoritative body that makes

:36:48.:36:50.

decisions in this area and we have the Electoral Commission. It is

:36:51.:36:54.

about being sore losers on the part of UKIP. I am delighted to represent

:36:55.:37:00.

people in the South West. Should there be a right of appeal or not?

:37:01.:37:06.

You need an authoritative body and the Electoral Commission is that. I

:37:07.:37:09.

do not think it should have a right to appeal.

:37:10.:37:11.

We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now

:37:12.:37:16.

Coming up here in 20 minutes, we'll be discussing extremism

:37:17.:37:30.

Hello and a warm welcome to your local part of the show.

:37:31.:37:33.

This week: rising demand and deteriorating response times ` the

:37:34.:37:37.

North East ambulance servicd is struggling to cope. The Prile

:37:38.:37:39.

Minister promised to investhgate ` so what's being done? In thd studio

:37:40.:37:43.

discussing that ` and of cotrse the Queen's Speech is the Hartldpool

:37:44.:37:46.

Labour MP Iain Wright and Conservative Jeremy Middleton.

:37:47.:37:52.

The Government this week set out its "to do" list for the rest of this

:37:53.:37:56.

Parliament. It ranges from introducing charges for plastic bags

:37:57.:37:58.

in supermarkets to help for child`care and a shake`up of the

:37:59.:38:01.

planning system. But there's no doubt about its over`arching

:38:02.:38:04.

message: that the Government is "unashamedly pro`work and

:38:05.:38:06.

pro`business" and is sticking to its economic plan. As if to reinforce

:38:07.:38:09.

the point the deputy Prime Linister Nick Clegg was on Wearside on

:38:10.:38:13.

Thursday ` together with thd Business Secretary Vince Cable. They

:38:14.:38:15.

were opening a new ?100 million Rolls Royce aerospace factory in

:38:16.:38:18.

Washington. Nick Clegg said such developments were helping the

:38:19.:38:21.

We are on a long`term journdy, if you like. The North`South dhvide has

:38:22.:38:32.

been around for a long time. It s got deep roots and we're not going

:38:33.:38:35.

to solve it overnight. But H do think we're taking steps in the

:38:36.:38:39.

right direction. I say this as the most senior member of this

:38:40.:38:42.

government, from a large northern city, from Sheffield, it's something

:38:43.:38:45.

I care about passionately. What you see behind me is really, I think, an

:38:46.:38:49.

absolutely key ingredient for the future to heal the North`Sotth

:38:50.:38:51.

divide and to boost the fortunes of the North East.

:38:52.:38:58.

Well, Labour has welcomed the investment but accuses ministers of

:38:59.:39:00.

ignoring the big issues in the Queen's speech. In particul`r they

:39:01.:39:03.

want action to tackle job insecurity, youth unemploymdnt and

:39:04.:39:06.

the housing shortage. So dods the Government have a programme for the

:39:07.:39:09.

next year that will help Culbria and the North East?

:39:10.:39:12.

Jeremy Middleton, whether you think this was thin pickings or not, there

:39:13.:39:19.

was nothing much to boost pdople's living standards or get people into

:39:20.:39:23.

work, was there? I think the most important thing is

:39:24.:39:27.

that we keep the economic rdcovery going. We've got the fastest rate of

:39:28.:39:31.

growth in all of Europe. We got falling unemployment, rising

:39:32.:39:33.

employment, low inflation, the right ingredients for success. Thd most

:39:34.:39:36.

important thing is to keep that going. That doesn't require further

:39:37.:39:39.

legislation. I know some wotld suggest it does. We hear from Mr

:39:40.:39:42.

Miliband a great deal about he is going to intervene in markets.

:39:43.:39:46.

That is because people do not feel the benefit of economic growth.

:39:47.:39:53.

Well, at the moment, not enough people are feeling the benefit. That

:39:54.:39:59.

is true. But you have to look at the growth and where that leads. And it

:40:00.:40:03.

takes time. But the factors remain, what is not the answer is to have

:40:04.:40:09.

some kind of return to 1970s intervention. That will takd us back

:40:10.:40:12.

to higher unemployment and lower growth.

:40:13.:40:18.

Iain Wright ` Jeremy Middleton has a point there. You cannot leghslate

:40:19.:40:22.

for growth, can you? You can put in place the conditions

:40:23.:40:27.

to make sure that economic growth is sustainable and fair. Jeremx talks

:40:28.:40:32.

about an economic recovery. Any economic growth is welcome. But my

:40:33.:40:34.

constituents in Hartlepool, and elsewhere across the North Dast are

:40:35.:40:41.

certainly not feeling it. Wd're seeing rising job insecuritx, actual

:40:42.:40:44.

falling wage levels, let alone relative wage levels, so wh`t we

:40:45.:40:48.

need to be doing is ensuring the economic recovery is sustainable and

:40:49.:40:50.

for all. We did not have that in the Queens

:40:51.:40:52.

speech. There was some important sttff in

:40:53.:40:55.

there that will benefit your constituents. Pension changds, help

:40:56.:40:58.

on childcare, free school mdals All helping your constituents.

:40:59.:41:01.

A lot of that has been calldd for by Labour for many years. This is a

:41:02.:41:05.

mishmash. In terms of housing, the construction sector is an ilportant

:41:06.:41:12.

part of the North East economy. What the Government said in the Pueen's

:41:13.:41:15.

speech about creating 15,000 houses is welcome. We actually need 20 ,000

:41:16.:41:19.

homes a year. That would re`lly boost the construction industry and

:41:20.:41:21.

help workers in Hartlepool `nd elsewhere.

:41:22.:41:29.

Jeremy Middleton, this is an important point. You have ldss than

:41:30.:41:33.

a year until the election to prove what kind of legacy you havd had

:41:34.:41:38.

over the last five years. And on the issue of housing, never allowing

:41:39.:41:40.

fracking under people's homds, but not actually building new houses.

:41:41.:41:47.

I do not think that is corrdct. Housebuilding is going up. @nd it

:41:48.:41:51.

will go up an awful lot mord. Legislation has been announced to

:41:52.:41:54.

free up planning so we build more houses.

:41:55.:41:56.

But you are fracking under people's homes.

:41:57.:41:58.

That is a separate issue. And actually one I am very keen to

:41:59.:42:01.

support. Fracking is the most realistic way of reducing energy

:42:02.:42:04.

bills. And it will help energy intensive industries on Teesside and

:42:05.:42:05.

in Iain's constituency. What would you support thosd motors

:42:06.:42:23.

came out I do not disagree with fracking as part of a responsible

:42:24.:42:27.

energy mix. But my constitudnts are concerned, since the Queen's speech

:42:28.:42:32.

about fracking under their homes. That should not be allowed. There

:42:33.:42:37.

should be a need for proper regulation, proper scientifhc,

:42:38.:42:40.

empirical evidence based on fracking. What the Government has

:42:41.:42:46.

said, and I urge constituents to get involved, is a consultation about

:42:47.:42:49.

planning permission for fracking under their homes. 's we have to

:42:50.:42:52.

leave it there. Labour MPs are demanding urgent

:42:53.:42:57.

action to tackle what they say is a mounting crisis in the North East

:42:58.:43:01.

Ambulance Service. All this week, BBC Look North has reported on

:43:02.:43:04.

problems facing the Trust which is dealing with a huge increasd in the

:43:05.:43:07.

number of emergency calls. Some patients are facing long delays for

:43:08.:43:10.

an ambulance like Geoff Pearson from County Durham whose mother broke her

:43:11.:43:13.

hip in a fall. He had to waht three You are helpless. You cannot do

:43:14.:43:22.

anything. You're just waiting for the professionals. It is an anxious

:43:23.:43:30.

time. I could not believe it. I could not believe how you could have

:43:31.:43:36.

that many people waiting for an emergency ambulance.

:43:37.:43:41.

The North East Ambulance service does reach 80% of the most seriously

:43:42.:43:45.

ill in 8 minutes. And for p`tients who do not have a life`thre`tening

:43:46.:43:48.

condition it aims to respond within 30 minutes. But the man running the

:43:49.:43:52.

trust says both costs ` and the number of calls ` are continuing to

:43:53.:43:55.

increase. And he warned that without more money, difficult choicds will

:43:56.:43:58.

If demand goes up by 5% every year, and I have the same real resources

:43:59.:44:08.

to deal with it, then I will deal with the most life threatendd

:44:09.:44:11.

people. I will save as many lives as I possibly can. Others will not get

:44:12.:44:17.

the quality of service that they would like. We have created a very

:44:18.:44:25.

lean organisation. We will continue to do that if we need to. Bdcause

:44:26.:44:30.

the system cannot give us any more. We're in a recession. Taxpaxers

:44:31.:44:36.

provide the funding for public services. The police, the Fhre

:44:37.:44:43.

Service, the Ambulance Servhce, hospitals... In the end it hs the

:44:44.:44:49.

voters who will determine which party they wish to see npowdr and

:44:50.:44:53.

what the party says they ard willing to spend. `` to see in power.

:44:54.:45:03.

A challenge to all the parthes there. Well, the Government points

:45:04.:45:06.

out that the NHS Budget has been protected from cuts and it dxpects

:45:07.:45:09.

the ambulance service trust to act urgently to correct the problems

:45:10.:45:12.

Jeremy Middleton, if it was your family waiting, you would w`nt

:45:13.:45:17.

something done about this. H would not be impressed by a response like

:45:18.:45:23.

that one. First of all, it hs very disturbing, the cases you h`ve

:45:24.:45:28.

raised. Ian is quite right to raise these cases. But the second point is

:45:29.:45:34.

that the whole Ambulance Service is not in crisis, there was a review

:45:35.:45:39.

last year and that said that 97 of cases saw a response within 90

:45:40.:45:47.

minutes. We were rated the best in the country.

:45:48.:45:55.

There will be tough choices. There have been worrying things. H think

:45:56.:46:03.

the question is, first of all, he says it is the overall level of

:46:04.:46:08.

expenditure. It is absolutely not. That would be a valid point if the

:46:09.:46:13.

Government had been reducing expenditure. But the NHS has been

:46:14.:46:17.

protected. But not keeping up with the number

:46:18.:46:22.

of calls... The question is what is going wrong? From the cases I have

:46:23.:46:29.

seen, there are a number of specific issues, prioritisation, I al no

:46:30.:46:38.

expert, but I think some of the prioritisation is not correct.

:46:39.:46:42.

Ambulances waiting outside @ departments. These questions must be

:46:43.:46:46.

addressed by the board of the north`eastern town service, who gets

:46:47.:46:51.

money from the doctors and commissioners. It is how thd money

:46:52.:46:55.

is being spent. You talked about this service being

:46:56.:47:01.

in crisis. Is that not a bit strong? It is the fastest service in the

:47:02.:47:04.

country. I raised this matter in Parliament.

:47:05.:47:09.

There was a distressing casd in my constituency where a man didd,

:47:10.:47:14.

waiting to ours for an ambulance on his bathroom floor. The inqtest said

:47:15.:47:21.

that they did not have resotrces to meet demand. Jeremy is wrong. It has

:47:22.:47:26.

not been protected. The north`east and on service has seen acttal cuts.

:47:27.:47:33.

This year it has seen a cut of 1.35 billion. Rising demand, and ageing

:47:34.:47:39.

population, and cutting resources...

:47:40.:47:45.

Is the answer that Labour is committed to putting more money into

:47:46.:47:48.

Ambulance Services? What needs to be done, is the NHS

:47:49.:47:54.

must be viewed in a holistic manner. The Ambulance Service must be

:47:55.:47:57.

recognised as the glue that holds it together.

:47:58.:48:01.

But you cannot it promises... It is absolutely right that we put

:48:02.:48:05.

more resources into our Ambtlance Service. I want to insure mx

:48:06.:48:10.

constituents receive the best possible service at a time of acute

:48:11.:48:15.

anxiety, if your mother has broken her hip, you want to make stre you

:48:16.:48:24.

get a swift and professional... Germany made an important point in

:48:25.:48:32.

that when you call for help, what questions are asked of you? That is

:48:33.:48:40.

an important thing. Making sure there is professional, clinhcally

:48:41.:48:45.

led, 909 response. Jeremy Middleton, people will look

:48:46.:48:52.

at this and say that Labour is correct. The NHS is not safd in

:48:53.:48:59.

Conservative hands. Well, I think we are both right. There is more money

:49:00.:49:07.

going into the NHS. He did not promise more money. But what he is

:49:08.:49:10.

suggesting is that they think there should be more money in the

:49:11.:49:14.

Ambulance Service there shotld be. But it is the job of the bo`rd of

:49:15.:49:18.

the ambulance trust to perstade the doctors and those in the NHS that

:49:19.:49:21.

they should commission and have more money. Either they are failhng to

:49:22.:49:29.

persuade them, or they are not operationally efficient.

:49:30.:49:34.

If I am a patient, I hear these arguments about who is provhding

:49:35.:49:40.

money, who is taking charge? Why the Government not taking chargd? In the

:49:41.:49:47.

eastern region of the country, where there is also concern about

:49:48.:49:51.

ambulance trusts, they created a great deal of fuss about thhs and

:49:52.:49:55.

ended up getting rid of the entire board and change the managelent and

:49:56.:49:59.

now they have improved results. I am not saying that is what shotld

:50:00.:50:03.

happen here. But this is for doctors and professionals within thd NHS to

:50:04.:50:06.

decide how they allocate thdir money. The Chief Executive `nd

:50:07.:50:11.

politicians are seeing it as nothing to do with us, but that is just an

:50:12.:50:15.

easy answer. You're playing the blame gale,

:50:16.:50:21.

basically. No. I am standing up for my

:50:22.:50:32.

constituents. I am not using this as a stick to beat the Governmdnt. I

:50:33.:50:36.

want a first`class Ambulancd Service for my constituents and the rest of

:50:37.:50:39.

the North East. When things go wrong, it seems to be very bad and

:50:40.:50:45.

has fatal consequences. Rishng demand and cutting resources is not

:50:46.:50:49.

the answer. It is a difficult subject. Sure we

:50:50.:50:50.

will come back to it. Now, in a 100 day?s time Scots will

:50:51.:50:54.

be about to decide on whethdr they want to become independent. It's a

:50:55.:50:59.

decision which also matters to the North East and Cumbria. In the past

:51:00.:51:02.

it has sometimes been locked in battle with Scotland for jobs and

:51:03.:51:05.

inward investment. So what does business here think an independent

:51:06.:51:08.

Scotland will mean for them? Well to try and find out, the Chambdr of

:51:09.:51:12.

Commerce in the region asked more than 240 of its members. Here's our

:51:13.:51:15.

political correspondent Mark Denten. A business Park in Newcastld. Jobs

:51:16.:51:21.

are being created here. But, as you can see, still plenty of empty

:51:22.:51:30.

space. Offices like this ond are crying out for tenants. The jobs

:51:31.:51:34.

that could have come here h`ve gone to Scotland instead. One colpany

:51:35.:51:40.

were considering bringing jobs here, but chose to relocate to Scotland

:51:41.:51:47.

instead. An independent Scotland could be an even fiercer colpetitor.

:51:48.:51:52.

As Edinburgh's nearest neighbour, we will feel it. We need to have more

:51:53.:51:59.

control over spending. More control over how are offering is perceived

:52:00.:52:05.

to these large occupiers. To ensure the cameramen competitor.

:52:06.:52:09.

Concerns among businesses in the region are coming into sharper

:52:10.:52:14.

focus, as Scotland prepares to vote on independence. Around 240

:52:15.:52:19.

companies in Cumbria and thd north`east gave their views to the

:52:20.:52:28.

BBC any questionnaire. 63 South that is an independent Scotland were to

:52:29.:52:32.

cut corporation tax, they mhght consider investing north of the

:52:33.:52:37.

border rather than in this region. But the majority, 176, said it would

:52:38.:52:40.

make no difference to their investment decisions. That hs the

:52:41.:52:50.

case for this Durham firm. Hn the last few weeks, the body Scottish

:52:51.:52:54.

building firm. They are confident of their future. This is a str`tegic

:52:55.:53:02.

decision to expand our business We are employing a lot of people. In

:53:03.:53:06.

Scotland and Cumbria. What difference should make you

:53:07.:53:13.

construction works across borders. We have international companies

:53:14.:53:16.

working within the UK. So what is the difference?

:53:17.:53:20.

The Chamber of Commerce said that the biggest problem is the lack of

:53:21.:53:24.

information. We have heard that businesses are holding back on

:53:25.:53:26.

investing because they are waiting to see what the outcome of the

:53:27.:53:31.

referendum is. That is a disappointing situation. Thdre is an

:53:32.:53:36.

inevitability about it, but I think that people on both sides of the

:53:37.:53:40.

debate should do more to provide clarity for business.

:53:41.:53:45.

Most businesses in the region are confident they can punch thdir

:53:46.:53:49.

but there are concerns from some but but there are concerns from some but

:53:50.:53:51.

it could leave gaps in our dconomy. Well earlier Mark spoke to Hvan

:53:52.:53:56.

McKee from Business for Scotland ` that's an organisation which

:53:57.:53:59.

supports independence and is affiliated to the Yes campahgn. He

:54:00.:54:02.

asked first whether an independent Scotland would succeed at the

:54:03.:54:05.

expense of our region. It is not a 0`sum game. At the

:54:06.:54:15.

moment, we're in the same UK. I think, an independent Scotl`nd is a

:54:16.:54:23.

growth engine, which is what this is about, focusing on policies that

:54:24.:54:32.

work for Scotland, which is very different from the focus of

:54:33.:54:35.

Westminster on the South of England. I think people in the North East

:54:36.:54:41.

very much understand this. They have seen this centralisation ovdr the

:54:42.:54:46.

decades. Scotland has a strong and vibrant economy and that will

:54:47.:54:51.

benefit the North East. But the reality is that in lany

:54:52.:55:00.

cases we are competitors in the oil and gas and renewables industry Our

:55:01.:55:06.

companies are competing with your companies. Everyone cannot win.

:55:07.:55:12.

Economic growth benefit everybody. The oil sector has seen record

:55:13.:55:19.

investment. There are many people in this part of England who tr`vel to

:55:20.:55:25.

work in Scotland and benefit from that growing sector. There hs plenty

:55:26.:55:33.

of work for all kinds of colpanies. Renewables will be a huge growth

:55:34.:55:36.

sector for the Scottish economy in the years going forward and there is

:55:37.:55:41.

no reason why companies in this part of England should not benefht from

:55:42.:55:46.

that. At the end of the day, it is a European market. It works across

:55:47.:55:51.

borders. That will continue as it does at the moment. A growing

:55:52.:55:56.

Scottish economy can only bd good for this part of England.

:55:57.:56:07.

Labour MPs in the north`east are concerned about central Parhs and

:56:08.:56:10.

London. But could the north`east economy not benefit from a shift in

:56:11.:56:17.

power to Glasgow and Edinburgh? I think we're better togethdr. We

:56:18.:56:21.

are more successful as the Tnited Kingdom. Further restrictions does

:56:22.:56:26.

not help anybody. Is it not a fair point to stggest

:56:27.:56:33.

that having a capital city closer to us is a good thing?

:56:34.:56:38.

I do not think that is the right answer. It is important to recognise

:56:39.:56:42.

that our economy is too distorted towards London and the South East,

:56:43.:56:46.

but the answer is giving us greater powers in the regions to be able to

:56:47.:56:51.

fulfil our destiny. We have huge advantages in the North East,

:56:52.:56:56.

industrial strengths, give ts the powers to achieve our potential

:56:57.:57:06.

If renewable energy takes off in an independent Scotland, could the

:57:07.:57:08.

North East the a beneficiarx of that? What I am concerned about

:57:09.:57:19.

whether they vote yes or no, is that Scotland will have a transfdr of tax

:57:20.:57:25.

and spend authority, and thdy will take money from the south E`st and

:57:26.:57:28.

use it against us. The dangdr is that it is used effectively to bribe

:57:29.:57:33.

businesses to operate in Scotland who would otherwise operate in the

:57:34.:57:38.

North East. We need reassur`nces from the prime minister and the

:57:39.:57:43.

Chancellor that we will not be at an economic disadvantage. Everx single

:57:44.:57:48.

political party is offering more tax`and`spend because of thd

:57:49.:57:53.

election. We need to ensure that the north`east is not put at a

:57:54.:57:57.

disadvantage. Scotland alre`dy has more spending per head than the

:57:58.:58:01.

north`east. Should they balance more powers

:58:02.:58:11.

here? They should ensure thd north`east is not at an economic

:58:12.:58:15.

disadvantage. Ideally, that would be done by ensuring that Scotl`nd

:58:16.:58:22.

cannot bribe businesses. Thd alternative is potentially we need

:58:23.:58:25.

more economic Government powers here.

:58:26.:58:29.

Is the danger not that we gdt more companies like Amazon reloc`ting to

:58:30.:58:33.

Scotland? They have not formally put hn place

:58:34.:58:40.

that investment. The point hs that it is not in anybody's interests to

:58:41.:58:47.

have a race to the bottom. We should remain as a United Kingdom.

:58:48.:58:58.

Now, the Queen's speech may have had all the pomp and ceremony this week

:58:59.:59:02.

` but back in the Commons chamber a Teesside MP was interested hn

:59:03.:59:06.

With that and the rest of the week's news here's Fergus Hewison.

:59:07.:59:10.

All buses carrying passengers should be fitted with seat belts, says

:59:11.:59:13.

North West Durham MP Pat Gl`ss. She made the remarks after a collision

:59:14.:59:17.

which injured 30 people, including 28 children.

:59:18.:59:18.

Meanwhile, Tom Blenkinsop, Labour's Middlesbrough South and East

:59:19.:59:21.

Cleveland MP, wants all households affected by flooding to recdive

:59:22.:59:23.

The Government must act to protect all households from the dam`ging

:59:24.:59:27.

effects of flooding. Not just those in urban areas, or where thdre is a

:59:28.:59:31.

high media presence. I would also urge the government to extend the

:59:32.:59:34.

support and emphasis it has given to areas hit last winter by flooding to

:59:35.:59:38.

places like East Cleveland, which were hit earlier in the year.

:59:39.:59:44.

New figures released this wdek reveal seven areas in the North East

:59:45.:59:47.

and Cumbria are among the worst in the country for the number of empty

:59:48.:59:51.

homes. South Lakeland, Hartlepool, Gateshead and Copeland are `mong the

:59:52.:59:54.

top 20. The Queen's speech contained plans to allow elections for

:59:55.:59:57.

National Parks authorities ` a move the Government says will address a

:59:58.:00:00.

democratic deficit. And finally, Durham County Council

:00:01.:00:02.

has launched a consultation on banning people from smoking in

:00:03.:00:04.

That's about it from us. Don't forget to follow me on Twitter ` I

:00:05.:00:16.

may even follow you back, in the nicest possible fashion. We'll be

:00:17.:00:20.

here same time same place ndxt weekend ` hope you can join me then.

:00:21.:00:22.

my guests. That is it for the Sunday Politics in London. Back to Andrew.

:00:23.:00:35.

Is enough being done to tackle extremism in schools?

:00:36.:00:39.

Will Mr Cameron stopped Mr Junker, will make

:00:40.:00:48.

we are joined by the founder of the Quilliam Association. If you read

:00:49.:01:10.

the Sunday Telegraph this morning, there is a real problem. If you read

:01:11.:01:14.

the Observer, there is not much of a problem. What is the situation in

:01:15.:01:29.

your view in Birmingham? Allegations are seen to be -- if music was not

:01:30.:01:36.

being taught as it should be. Instead of the rating the national

:01:37.:01:41.

holidays here during the Christmas period, children were sent off

:01:42.:01:44.

instead on religious pilgrimage to Mecca, then I think something is

:01:45.:01:50.

going on. From my knowledge, I know about some of the strategies to

:01:51.:01:59.

influence. These strategies are known as gradualism. The idea, like

:02:00.:02:04.

the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt is to join the institutions of society

:02:05.:02:10.

and influence from within -- from within. It is a gradual approach to

:02:11.:02:17.

Islamicisation society. We have seen that happening in other areas, such

:02:18.:02:23.

as the decision by the Law Society to call it shy and issue it out as

:02:24.:02:28.

guidance for solicitors. They are saying this means that women inherit

:02:29.:02:31.

half of what men saying this means that women inherit

:02:32.:02:40.

and adopted children do not get any inheritance. Apostates do not get

:02:41.:02:41.

any inheritance. These are guidelines being issued by the Law

:02:42.:02:45.

Society by Islamic. It is a medieval take on Islam. That is what is

:02:46.:02:52.

meant. We see the same names popping up again and again in different

:02:53.:02:58.

situations in Birmingham. Is it a planned infiltration? In my

:02:59.:03:02.

profession of you and planned infiltration? In my

:03:03.:03:05.

profession of you having spent 3 years on the leadership of an

:03:06.:03:08.

Islamist organisation, having been involved

:03:09.:03:21.

Islamist organisation, having been and setting up schools, I am very

:03:22.:03:21.

Islamist organisation, having been certain is a deliberate plan to

:03:22.:03:21.

influence the students of this country with a medieval

:03:22.:03:26.

interpretation of my own faith to bring about a medieval, conservative

:03:27.:03:29.

view, and enforce things like segregation on boys and girls within

:03:30.:03:34.

our public institutions. With these things be acceptable if they were

:03:35.:03:41.

explicitly they schools? If they were state. We had state Anglican

:03:42.:03:46.

faith schools. We have state Catholic faith schools as well.

:03:47.:03:52.

Would it be acceptable if these were state Islamic schools? That is a

:03:53.:03:57.

policy question. I am not generally in favour. I would believe in this

:03:58.:04:03.

establishment. I am not a fan of faith schools. I do think the

:04:04.:04:10.

solution is to ban them. I do think these schools should start working

:04:11.:04:14.

out with an engaging with the wider communities and not being insular

:04:15.:04:18.

and looking inwards. It is very important. The Ofsted report is

:04:19.:04:22.

coming out tomorrow. We have already had a taste about what it is saying

:04:23.:04:29.

about some of the schools. Is it a serious problem? It is a very

:04:30.:04:33.

serious problem. It comes from the segregation of children into

:04:34.:04:40.

intensely populated areas where everyone is Muslim virtually. You

:04:41.:04:43.

have to have a system of spreading children between schools. It very

:04:44.:04:49.

often happens, even with a secular school like this. Nearby Catholic or

:04:50.:04:53.

Church of England schools become like-for-like schools and that

:04:54.:04:56.

leaves the rest of the state schools to become all of one faith. I think

:04:57.:05:01.

all of the parties are being quite hypocritical about the profound

:05:02.:05:05.

problem of continuing to have faith schools. You have Orthodox Jewish

:05:06.:05:10.

schools with extraordinary dogma being taught. Indeed very strict

:05:11.:05:13.

Catholic schools with amazing dogma being taught. To somehow only get

:05:14.:05:19.

worried when it is Islamic, when it is Muslim schools, becomes a

:05:20.:05:23.

problem. You have to look at the whole issue and said the state

:05:24.:05:27.

should simply withdraw from the business of faith education. Like

:05:28.:05:40.

France? Yes, a secular school. The overall government policy is to take

:05:41.:05:46.

power away. The dilemma with that is that it comes with dangers. Some

:05:47.:05:51.

schools will be incompetent and some schools will be more than

:05:52.:05:54.

incompetent, they will be maligned in some respects. The one bit of

:05:55.:05:58.

this policy which has never been entirely squared is how do you

:05:59.:06:04.

devolve and retain a basic minimum of educational standards and

:06:05.:06:07.

behavioural standards while doing it? There is an even deeper quandary

:06:08.:06:12.

for Britain. We have prided ourselves on allowing radical views

:06:13.:06:16.

that stop short of violence. We took on Karl Marx and the rest of Europe

:06:17.:06:21.

would not have him. The rest of Europe could not believe how

:06:22.:06:24.

tolerably well of radical preachers in the 1990s. Do we stick with that

:06:25.:06:28.

view? The risks were greater than they were 100 years ago. We do

:06:29.:06:36.

expect, whatever peoples faith, that our children, at the expense of the

:06:37.:06:41.

taxpayer, are educated, not instructed, not indoctrinated,

:06:42.:06:46.

educated. We do expect that and also that boys and girls are treated

:06:47.:06:49.

equally. One of the things the board in Birmingham will be looking at

:06:50.:06:53.

which has Andrew Mitchell on it the former development Secretary,

:06:54.:06:57.

because he is a Birmingham MP full Sutton, they are really concerned

:06:58.:07:01.

about whether the girls are being treated as second-class citizens.

:07:02.:07:06.

There has been a lot of work done on empowerment of girls. Shirley

:07:07.:07:11.

Williams made the point that what Michael Gove has done by creating

:07:12.:07:15.

free schools and academies is undermined the work of local

:07:16.:07:18.

education authorities. They think they are traditional bodies which

:07:19.:07:25.

are not open to reform. One school in Birmingham which is accused of

:07:26.:07:31.

being in trouble is a local education school. They cannot have

:07:32.:07:37.

the other side. Under Michael Gove, they are answerable to the Secretary

:07:38.:07:41.

of State. It is down to Ofsted. Ofsted is giving the schools, not

:07:42.:07:47.

that long ago, outstanding marks. There are big questions about the

:07:48.:07:50.

oversight of schools. Tristan Hunt was trying to answer that point By

:07:51.:07:55.

tapping it cannot all have gone pear shaped in two years. How do you

:07:56.:08:02.

think that will play out? -- it cannot have gone pear shaped. The

:08:03.:08:09.

story was broken in February. It will keep playing out. The report

:08:10.:08:13.

that was due out Ofsted is tomorrow or Monday. Then there is the other

:08:14.:08:17.

report that will look into wider questions, that will come out in

:08:18.:08:21.

July, I think. We are expecting two points. -- reports. We have to look

:08:22.:08:31.

at questions of Ofsted and other institutions in our society, even

:08:32.:08:36.

government departments, where idea of taxing non-violent extremism

:08:37.:08:43.

became a too boot in this country. -- a taboo. They must be rebuffed

:08:44.:08:48.

the challenge, as we would expect racism to be challenged. In the

:08:49.:08:54.

argument between Michael Gove and Theresa May, where do you side? They

:08:55.:09:00.

should be challenged openly and robust leap by civilian society It

:09:01.:09:04.

was settled by the Prime Minister and is government policy. I had a

:09:05.:09:14.

hand in advising or consulting. I think Fiona Cunningham was forced to

:09:15.:09:22.

resign because what she did violates official government policy. It just

:09:23.:09:35.

has not been implemented yet. Will Mr Cameron succeed with Juncke?

:09:36.:09:46.

You'll agree he have to decide whether he will spirit at stopping

:09:47.:09:50.

him or accepting him as commission president and ask in return for a

:09:51.:09:54.

massive commission portfolio for Britain, something like the internal

:09:55.:09:58.

market, which they missed out on last time. It is a diplomatic

:09:59.:10:04.

decision he have to make. It is too late for that he is into deep. If he

:10:05.:10:10.

takes over the job, Cameron is left with egg on its face. From the

:10:11.:10:18.

beginning, he did not have his voice with the weight of the British

:10:19.:10:21.

Conservative Party, with ankle and Arkle, the rest of them. He is

:10:22.:10:28.

reaping -- Angela Merkel, the rest of them. He is reaping that reward.

:10:29.:10:35.

There is a lot of support within Europe. In Germany, there was a lot

:10:36.:10:43.

of opposition to David Cameron getting his way. I know him from

:10:44.:10:48.

Brussels. He is entertaining, you go to dinner with him and he smokes and

:10:49.:10:53.

drinks. He is entertaining but he is the most awful person you could

:10:54.:10:57.

think of having trying to sort of symbolise a new European Union. I

:10:58.:11:01.

remember I was there join the Luxembourg presidency in 2005 when

:11:02.:11:04.

the voters in France and the Netherlands voted no to the European

:11:05.:11:07.

constitution, what was his response to that? Let's carry on with the

:11:08.:11:13.

ratification process of this treaty that has been comprehensively

:11:14.:11:20.

rejected by voters. He did not say the final bit of that sentence. You

:11:21.:11:24.

can see why Eurosceptics want him. He has blown a raspy at all the

:11:25.:11:29.

people who have protested at the elections with the way the European

:11:30.:11:31.

Union is going. -- blown a Rasberry. This is your most popular... What

:11:32.:11:54.

has come in most recently is doing really well. This is yours. There we

:11:55.:12:07.

go. Cheers! By our people so cynical? They always go for a drink

:12:08.:12:10.

at 11am and they pull their own pipes. I see them every day. -- pts.

:12:11.:12:21.

Is there anything Mr Clegg can do is to mark the idea is to define

:12:22.:12:25.

clearly a liberal brand, or at least I hope it is. It is not good enough

:12:26.:12:29.

for us to say the Liberal Democrats challenge the Tories on this, on the

:12:30.:12:33.

fairer society, and challenge the Labour Party on a strong economy. We

:12:34.:12:37.

need to define what we stand for. That is what I call a liberal brand,

:12:38.:12:43.

assertive liberalism. I have been there myself and I think that is

:12:44.:12:47.

what he will be speaking about. Standing up for liberal values, to

:12:48.:12:55.

finding -- defining what they are. Disestablishment in getting younger

:12:56.:12:58.

people re-engage with politics. The overwhelming number are actually

:12:59.:13:04.

liberal. We only have about 20 seconds. I suggest to you it is too

:13:05.:13:09.

late. Sign up with the one principle on which he stood is Europe. -- the

:13:10.:13:15.

one principle on which he stood if Europe. That is why he has been

:13:16.:13:23.

doing so badly. He cannot get out of the hole he is in. If you fight

:13:24.:13:28.

three general elections to the left of Labour and on the third when you

:13:29.:13:32.

are in coalition with the Tories, you have got a problem. I will be

:13:33.:13:50.

back next week. Remember if it is Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics.

:13:51.:14:18.

What's the hardest thing about being a foster parent?

:14:19.:14:20.

You're constantly trying to build the elusive trust.

:14:21.:14:23.

It's like a big old question mark in your heart.

:14:24.:14:27.

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