Browse content similar to 08/06/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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David Cameron slaps down two of his most senior Cabinet ministers | :00:37. | :00:41. | |
over their public row about Islamist extremism in schools. | :00:42. | :00:46. | |
And it?s HER special advisor that has to resign. | :00:47. | :00:52. | |
We'll talk to the Shadow Education Secretary live | :00:53. | :00:56. | |
Should this man become the next President of the EU Commission? | :00:57. | :01:00. | |
David Cameron has staked a lot on stopping Luxembourg Federalist | :01:01. | :01:03. | |
But could the arch europhile yet get the top job? | :01:04. | :01:13. | |
Here's to the quarter of a million votes. | :01:14. | :01:15. | |
And we'll find out why this political party is celebrating with | :01:16. | :01:20. | |
a pint down the pub and how their success may have cost UKIP two MEPs. | :01:21. | :01:23. | |
In the North East and Cumbrha: The business view on | :01:24. | :01:26. | |
Scottish independence from this side of the border. | :01:27. | :01:28. | |
And just what is going wrong at the North East Ambulance Servicd? | :01:29. | :01:34. | |
Has Boris Johnson deserted the suburbs and become a zone one man? | :01:35. | :01:42. | |
And with me our panel of top political journalists, | :01:43. | :01:45. | |
who are always squabbling among themselves, Nick Watt, Polly Toynbee | :01:46. | :01:48. | |
and Janan Ganesh, who will be tweeting throughout the programme | :01:49. | :01:50. | |
This morning's political news is dominated | :01:51. | :01:55. | |
by the very public fall-out of Home Secretary Theresa May and | :01:56. | :01:58. | |
The high viz blue on blue spat between two senior | :01:59. | :02:02. | |
Conservatives centred around the Government's approach to tackling | :02:03. | :02:04. | |
The row burst into the open ahead of the publication tomorrow of | :02:05. | :02:11. | |
investigations into the so-called Trojan Horse plot in Birmingham | :02:12. | :02:15. | |
where it is alleged several state schools have been covertly taken | :02:16. | :02:18. | |
Mr Gove told The Times last week he was concerned that the Home Office | :02:19. | :02:25. | |
was unwilling to tackle extremism at its roots. | :02:26. | :02:27. | |
He said a robust response was needed to drain the swamp. | :02:28. | :02:32. | |
In response, Mrs May's special advisor tweeted, | :02:33. | :02:33. | |
"why is the Department for Education wanting to blame other people | :02:34. | :02:36. | |
Lord knows what more they have overlooked on the subject of the | :02:37. | :02:43. | |
An angry David Cameron ordered a speedy inquiry. | :02:44. | :02:50. | |
Last night, Mr Gove apologised to the Prime Minister, while Ms May's | :02:51. | :02:53. | |
Speaking on the BBC earlier this morning | :02:54. | :02:58. | |
this is what Foreign Secretary, William Hague, had to say. | :02:59. | :03:04. | |
There's been a disciplinary matter within the Government, | :03:05. | :03:06. | |
which the Prime Minister has dealt with in a very firm, clear way. | :03:07. | :03:09. | |
There will be discipline in the Government. | :03:10. | :03:11. | |
The main thing is the issue itself - tackling extremism in schools. | :03:12. | :03:17. | |
The Government will be very clear, very robust about anything that s | :03:18. | :03:23. | |
put children at risk - risk to their safety or learning. | :03:24. | :03:42. | |
Let's look at the positive of this. Theresa May 's people of saying she | :03:43. | :03:52. | |
has come off worse in theirs. Yelena Kushi is no more guilty than Michael | :03:53. | :03:59. | |
Gove he was guilty of indiscretion. She is no more guilty. Even during | :04:00. | :04:06. | |
13 years of new Labour 's psychodrama, I cannot remember an | :04:07. | :04:12. | |
act of hostility quite as naked as direct as publishing on a website | :04:13. | :04:22. | |
and intergovernmental letter. It suggests quite a lot of | :04:23. | :04:25. | |
conservatives do not think they will win next time. Why would there be a | :04:26. | :04:31. | |
leadership spat going on like this unless they thought there was a | :04:32. | :04:37. | |
vacancy? Inside the Cabinet, Theresa May is getting quite a bashing. In | :04:38. | :04:42. | |
the Sunday Times, someone has reported she is the date from hell. | :04:43. | :04:48. | |
She sidles up to people and is nakedly ambitious. I think that is | :04:49. | :04:53. | |
interesting. On the whole, nobody will understand the finesse | :04:54. | :04:58. | |
differences of opinion. It is not serious, it is not serious, it is | :04:59. | :05:03. | |
tactical. It'll be puzzling for most people and will probably fizzle out. | :05:04. | :05:09. | |
Has the Prime Minister slapped it down or will it rumble on? On the | :05:10. | :05:15. | |
politics of it, it will not fizzle out. What you have is Theresa May is | :05:16. | :05:21. | |
deadly serious about replacing David Cameron, not dislodging him but | :05:22. | :05:25. | |
replacing him if there is a vacancy. Michael Gove is deadly serious in | :05:26. | :05:30. | |
ensuring George Osborne succeeds David Cameron. It will be that | :05:31. | :05:35. | |
ongoing political rivalry. What is really interesting about this is the | :05:36. | :05:38. | |
Prime Minister is absolutely fed up with both of them. He is fed up with | :05:39. | :05:44. | |
Michael Gove full-size gearing of message. He had the row with Nick | :05:45. | :05:49. | |
Clegg and he had a row with Theresa May. He named Charles Barr and | :05:50. | :05:55. | |
criticised him in a lunch with the times. White brother he is the | :05:56. | :06:03. | |
Security adviser at the Home Office. -- he is the security advisor. He is | :06:04. | :06:12. | |
fed up with Theresa May for mounting an unannounced leader bid. What | :06:13. | :06:17. | |
separates Theresa May from Michael Gove on dealing with extremism? The | :06:18. | :06:24. | |
view from Michael Gove is that it shows no interest in Islamic | :06:25. | :06:28. | |
extremism until it manifests in violent form. Theresa May is | :06:29. | :06:34. | |
criticised for rolling back the programme which the previous Labour | :06:35. | :06:39. | |
government introduced to do with the previous Labour government | :06:40. | :06:43. | |
introduced to do with the Home Office has been made by other people | :06:44. | :06:49. | |
and made when the Home Office was not run by Theresa May but previous | :06:50. | :06:54. | |
home secretaries, even dating back to the Conservative government in | :06:55. | :06:56. | |
the 1990s. It is about the laxity of the Government. Michael Gove has | :06:57. | :07:02. | |
used extraordinary inflammatory language talking about draining the | :07:03. | :07:07. | |
swamp. I think Theresa May 's view is you can very easily inflamed | :07:08. | :07:11. | |
those emotions and create many more extremists the process. Michael Gove | :07:12. | :07:18. | |
would say that his approach is entirely consistent with the speech | :07:19. | :07:23. | |
the Prime Minister made to the Munich Security conference in 2 11 | :07:24. | :07:26. | |
when the Prime Minister talked about how extremists | :07:27. | :07:28. | |
warp the grape great religion of Islam. The Birmingham school system | :07:29. | :07:44. | |
is going to be one of the most reported systems in Europe. | :07:45. | :07:50. | |
Joining me now from Kent is Shadow Education Secretary Tristram Hunt. | :07:51. | :07:53. | |
Should parents of Birmingham children be worried that some of | :07:54. | :08:03. | |
their schools are in the grip of an Islamist takeover? I think parents | :08:04. | :08:08. | |
in Birmingham schools will be very disappointed by the political | :08:09. | :08:11. | |
infighting going on in the Government. The briefings, the | :08:12. | :08:14. | |
resignations, the apologies. The real apology that Michael Gove needs | :08:15. | :08:21. | |
to deliver it to the pupil -- the pupils and parents of Birmingham. | :08:22. | :08:25. | |
There was a potential threat of radicalisation. He fell to act for | :08:26. | :08:29. | |
four years. The Labour Party is asking, when did he know the fact | :08:30. | :08:34. | |
that radicalisation could have been taking place? What has been going on | :08:35. | :08:38. | |
for the last four years? What we in the Labour Party want to see if much | :08:39. | :08:43. | |
stronger systems of local oversight and accountability to situations | :08:44. | :08:47. | |
like this do not arise again. Is there, in your view, if some of the | :08:48. | :08:51. | |
Birmingham schools, an Islamist takeover? What we have seen in the | :08:52. | :09:02. | |
leaked Ofsted report so far is fears about cultural isolation and an | :09:03. | :09:06. | |
overconcentration on Islamic teaching within the curriculum. We | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
want young people to celebrate their cultural identity, celebrate | :09:12. | :09:15. | |
themselves as Muslims. We also want them to have an education which | :09:16. | :09:20. | |
makes them succeed in multicultural 21st-century Birmingham. We want to | :09:21. | :09:24. | |
be quite tough on moves towards gender segregation, a restricted | :09:25. | :09:31. | |
curriculum. Birmingham is a multicultural city. We need an | :09:32. | :09:36. | |
education system which celebrates that. What is wrong with gender | :09:37. | :09:41. | |
segregation? You went to an all boys school. Where you have gender | :09:42. | :09:48. | |
segregation, we have had a long tradition in Catholic schooling | :09:49. | :09:54. | |
Where you have a state education system, which is about gender | :09:55. | :09:58. | |
equality between boys and girls and there is an unofficial policy of | :09:59. | :10:02. | |
gender segregation, that is unacceptable. We should not be | :10:03. | :10:07. | |
tarring communities with the same brush in terms of radicalisation. We | :10:08. | :10:13. | |
do want to see a successful, multicultural education. Two years | :10:14. | :10:19. | |
ago, Ofsted rated Parkview as outstanding. Now it looks like | :10:20. | :10:24. | |
tomorrow it is going into special measures. What is it up to? I do | :10:25. | :10:30. | |
think there is an issue for Ofsted that you can go from outstanding to | :10:31. | :10:35. | |
inadequate so quickly. That is why we are asking for a new criteria to | :10:36. | :10:40. | |
be introduced to look at a broad and balanced curriculum. We have healthy | :10:41. | :10:47. | |
sex and relationship education. There is a real issue this morning | :10:48. | :10:51. | |
as the BBC has been reporting on the night for the Department of | :10:52. | :10:54. | |
Education. We are hearing that some of those involved in the schools | :10:55. | :10:58. | |
were not allowed to open a free school on security grounds. They | :10:59. | :11:01. | |
were allowed to allow one of the schools to be taken over as an | :11:02. | :11:06. | |
academy. We have a lack of oversight and accountability in schools within | :11:07. | :11:10. | |
Birmingham. What the Labour Party wants is a local director of school | :11:11. | :11:14. | |
standards to make sure we challenge underperformance and make sure we | :11:15. | :11:23. | |
get in confronting Islamic extremism when it was in power? I was speaking | :11:24. | :11:30. | |
to Hazel blears and she was very clear about the prevent programme | :11:31. | :11:35. | |
which they rolled out when in office. A very atomised and | :11:36. | :11:43. | |
fragmented school system where every school is looked at from behind a | :11:44. | :11:51. | |
desk in Whitehall and he put that together and you do have an | :11:52. | :11:56. | |
increased risk of chances of radicalisation. You have attacked Mr | :11:57. | :12:08. | |
Gove for gross negligence. Was it the same -- you attacked Mr Gove for | :12:09. | :12:17. | |
gross negligence. We are dealing with a government which has been in | :12:18. | :12:22. | |
since 2010. The Government needs to hold the executive to account. We | :12:23. | :12:26. | |
note the Department Michael Gove was warned by a senior and respected | :12:27. | :12:34. | |
head teacher about fears over radicalism. What did he know and | :12:35. | :12:41. | |
what did he act upon? We are hearing more reports of conversations about | :12:42. | :12:44. | |
fears, about radicalisation, taking over some of the governing bodies of | :12:45. | :12:48. | |
schools. We need to know what ministers did. Let me continue. You | :12:49. | :12:55. | |
mention the capital to prevent strategy. Was it gross negligence | :12:56. | :13:04. | |
for Labour to regularly consult a man who once headed a group | :13:05. | :13:08. | |
dedicated to making Britain an Islamic state and wrote a book about | :13:09. | :13:14. | |
schools full of Taliban style decrees. I think the events in | :13:15. | :13:18. | |
Birmingham are enormously significant. About the nature of | :13:19. | :13:25. | |
multiculturalism, the nature of education, the role of civic | :13:26. | :13:29. | |
education, the role of faith schools. I will say to you this | :13:30. | :13:32. | |
morning that Birmingham City Council, Ofsted, the Labour Party, | :13:33. | :13:37. | |
the Department for Education were all involved in this conversation. | :13:38. | :13:48. | |
In 2010, ministers were warned about potential radicalisation of schools | :13:49. | :13:51. | |
and they fell to act. We need to know why, for years on, they allowed | :13:52. | :13:57. | |
this situation to exacerbate. When you look at the record of labour and | :13:58. | :14:01. | |
this government 's record, there are plenty of examples where both of you | :14:02. | :14:06. | |
fail to act. Would it not be better to drop the party politics and get | :14:07. | :14:10. | |
together to confront this problem for the sake of the children? There | :14:11. | :14:18. | |
are a number of reports going on in Birmingham. Some are led by the city | :14:19. | :14:22. | |
council, some by the Department for Education. Labour MPs this morning | :14:23. | :14:27. | |
have come forward with the Bishop of Birmingham talking about faith in | :14:28. | :14:31. | |
schools. If you have a minister failing to do their job, if you have | :14:32. | :14:35. | |
a minister being given warnings in 2010 and failing to act on them for | :14:36. | :14:40. | |
four years, the opposition has a role to hold the executive to | :14:41. | :14:43. | |
account. This is about the safety and standards of teaching for pupils | :14:44. | :14:48. | |
in Birmingham schools. It is about a great education for these young | :14:49. | :14:52. | |
people so they can succeed in a modern, multicultural Britain. Do | :14:53. | :14:57. | |
you agree with your Shadow Cabinet colleague, Rachel Reeves, that | :14:58. | :15:04. | |
Labour' as core voters are abandoning the party? She was | :15:05. | :15:11. | |
building on what Ed said the day after the elections in Berwick. We | :15:12. | :15:16. | |
have to make sure those communities who we historically represent regard | :15:17. | :15:19. | |
Labour as having a successful message for them. I am passionate | :15:20. | :15:24. | |
about making sure we have great vocational and technical education, | :15:25. | :15:28. | |
the great academic education in our schools. If we have more work to do | :15:29. | :15:36. | |
to get people to the polling booths, we must do that. We must | :15:37. | :15:38. | |
with listen to what she says. David Cameron has staked a lot on | :15:39. | :15:47. | |
stopping the former PM of Luxembourg - named by one newspaper as 'the | :15:48. | :15:50. | |
most dangerous man in Europe' because of his federalist views - | :15:51. | :15:53. | |
from becoming the next president Mr Cameron has reportedly described | :15:54. | :15:56. | |
Jean Claude Juncker as a 'face from the 80s who cannot solve the | :15:57. | :16:03. | |
problems of the next five years . But with the German Chancellor | :16:04. | :16:06. | |
Angela Merkel publicly backing Mr Juncker, it's not a dead cert that | :16:07. | :16:09. | |
Mr Cameron can stop his appointment. This is what he had to say at the G7 | :16:10. | :16:12. | |
summit earlier this week: It is important that we have people | :16:13. | :16:22. | |
running the institutions of Europe who understand the need for change | :16:23. | :16:26. | |
and reform. I would argue that view is widely shared amongst other heads | :16:27. | :16:31. | |
of government and heads of state in the European Union. I am clear what | :16:32. | :16:35. | |
I want to achieve for Britain's future, to secure Britain's placed | :16:36. | :16:40. | |
in a reformed European Union and I have a strategy for delivering | :16:41. | :16:43. | |
that, a strategy for dealing with an issue which I think if we walk away | :16:44. | :16:47. | |
from it would see Britain drift towards the exits. | :16:48. | :16:49. | |
We've been joined from Berlin by the German MEP Elmar Brok who is | :16:50. | :16:52. | |
a senior figure in the EPP - that's the party backing Mr Juncker. | :16:53. | :16:55. | |
He's also Chairman of the Union of European Federalists. | :16:56. | :17:00. | |
And in our Newcastle newsroom is the former Conservative MEP Martin | :17:01. | :17:04. | |
Callanan who until last month led the European Conservatives | :17:05. | :17:07. | |
and Reformists group in Brussels. Welcome to you both. | :17:08. | :17:15. | |
The United Kingdom, Sweden, Hungary, they don't want Mr Junker, the new | :17:16. | :17:23. | |
Italian Prime Minister doesn't look keen either, should he bow out | :17:24. | :17:30. | |
gracefully? First of all, he wants to have Mr Junker but he wants to | :17:31. | :17:36. | |
have his conditions. Will he become president of the European Council, a | :17:37. | :17:43. | |
high representative? It is a discussion to be had in the next | :17:44. | :17:47. | |
three or four weeks until the European Parliament can elect the | :17:48. | :17:53. | |
president of the European Council after the proposal of the European | :17:54. | :17:57. | |
Council, which has to be done after consultation with the Parliament in | :17:58. | :18:02. | |
the light of the European elections and by a majority vote. If not Mr | :18:03. | :18:10. | |
Junker, then who? There are many available candidates, I am not going | :18:11. | :18:14. | |
to mention them in front of someone so esteemed as Elmar Brok. Give us | :18:15. | :18:22. | |
one name that you would prefer? The prime Minister of Sweden, Christine | :18:23. | :18:27. | |
Lagarde, the minister from Lithuania, these are people who have | :18:28. | :18:33. | |
a record of old reform. Junker is the ultimate Europe insider. We need | :18:34. | :18:40. | |
radical inform. We need to respond to the message the electorate gave | :18:41. | :18:45. | |
us in the elections -- radical reform. Junker said he had to lie in | :18:46. | :18:50. | |
public, he allowed the security services to conduct a dirty tricks | :18:51. | :18:54. | |
campaign against his opponent. This is not who we want leading the | :18:55. | :18:59. | |
European Commission. Elmar Brok since the European voters have sent | :19:00. | :19:02. | |
a message to the parliament that they are not happy with the status | :19:03. | :19:06. | |
quo, why would you want a man who is synonymous with the status quo? | :19:07. | :19:13. | |
First of all what Martin has said is wrong. He has not done tricks | :19:14. | :19:23. | |
against his opponents. He was very clear on that. He is also the man | :19:24. | :19:29. | |
who was always for changes. He made dramatic changes as head of the Euro | :19:30. | :19:35. | |
group, came out of the economic crisis which was a result of the | :19:36. | :19:38. | |
financial crisis, made politics possible, to stop this incredible | :19:39. | :19:42. | |
financial sector influence of our states. I believe he is a man who | :19:43. | :19:47. | |
works on the programme which Mrs Merkel and others have decided in | :19:48. | :19:52. | |
Dublin, for the reform of the European Union, less government But | :19:53. | :19:57. | |
we need Europe more and he is not a man from the 80s. He is a man of | :19:58. | :20:01. | |
this century and in this century he made his own policy. He is the | :20:02. | :20:05. | |
winner of the European elections, he has a majority will stop Mrs | :20:06. | :20:09. | |
LANguard is not running because she knows she will not get the majority | :20:10. | :20:14. | |
in the European Parliament. -- Christine Lagarde is not running. It | :20:15. | :20:21. | |
is the Council of minister is that decides. No, the European Parliament | :20:22. | :20:28. | |
has the final word. The European Council can make a proposal by | :20:29. | :20:32. | |
majority in the light of the European elections after | :20:33. | :20:33. | |
consultation with the European Parliament. The council cannot get a | :20:34. | :20:38. | |
candidate against the will of the European Parliament. Mr Junker has a | :20:39. | :20:45. | |
majority in the European Parliament. Theoretically he is right, the | :20:46. | :20:48. | |
Parliament has do vote on the candidates proposed by the council. | :20:49. | :20:52. | |
I want to challenge the view that somehow he won the European | :20:53. | :20:57. | |
elections. There is no provision for Jean Claude Junker to stand in the | :20:58. | :21:01. | |
elections. He is saying that the EEP party got the most number of seats | :21:02. | :21:05. | |
in the Parliament but none of the electorate knew they were taking | :21:06. | :21:09. | |
part in this election. How many people who voted Labour in the | :21:10. | :21:12. | |
United Kingdom realised that their vote would count towards a German | :21:13. | :21:17. | |
socialist to be a candidate for the commission of presidency is a | :21:18. | :21:24. | |
nonsensical proposal. The elections were 28 individual elections with | :21:25. | :21:27. | |
hundreds of parties across Europe. To try to claim there is a | :21:28. | :21:31. | |
democratic mandate for somebody nobody has heard from Luxembourg to | :21:32. | :21:33. | |
take over the commission is a nonsense. People should know him, if | :21:34. | :21:51. | |
I should say that ironically. Newspapers talking about members of | :21:52. | :21:54. | |
the family of his wife with Nazi links... What is the answer to | :21:55. | :22:03. | |
Martin Callinan's point? I think it is clear that British Conservatives | :22:04. | :22:06. | |
have no candidate because they are not a broad European family, they | :22:07. | :22:11. | |
have not impacted on the selection of top candidates but it is a form | :22:12. | :22:15. | |
of isolation of the British Tory Party. The Prime Minister said if Mr | :22:16. | :22:22. | |
Junker is appointed it could lead to Britain drifting towards the EU | :22:23. | :22:26. | |
exit, is that credible? Is it melodramatic? It is true that we | :22:27. | :22:31. | |
want to renegotiate the relationship. We want some serious | :22:32. | :22:34. | |
reform in Europe so the people who vote in a referendum will be able to | :22:35. | :22:40. | |
vote to stay in if that is what they want. We need a bold reformer, | :22:41. | :22:46. | |
somebody prepared to engage. That is not anti the interests of the UK. We | :22:47. | :22:51. | |
need to recognise there is a problem with public perception of the | :22:52. | :22:54. | |
European Union. Elmar Brok is proud to be one of the last bastions of | :22:55. | :22:57. | |
federalism that that is not where most of the public opinion is in | :22:58. | :23:01. | |
Europe. I understand why he wants his man installed but we need to | :23:02. | :23:07. | |
take into account the message of the letter -- the electorate. 25% of the | :23:08. | :23:13. | |
publishing of France were prepared to vote for an openly racist party. | :23:14. | :23:19. | |
We can't just ignore the signal that the electorate were sending us. If | :23:20. | :23:25. | |
enthusiasm for federalism was at an all-time low, it would be a slap in | :23:26. | :23:29. | |
the face for the voters of Europe to have a federalist as the president, | :23:30. | :23:36. | |
would it not? 70, 80% of the members of the European Parliament, selected | :23:37. | :23:41. | |
by their people, are pro-Europeans. These are the winners of the | :23:42. | :23:45. | |
European elections. Even in France, a majority of voters have voted | :23:46. | :23:48. | |
pro-European and that should be clear, not to make this a populist | :23:49. | :23:52. | |
thing which is not only to do with Europe. And we want to have a Europe | :23:53. | :24:04. | |
which is strong, the member states should do their things. We do not | :24:05. | :24:10. | |
want to have a European centralism, we do not want a European state | :24:11. | :24:14. | |
This is not at stake. Let's talk about the question of better | :24:15. | :24:18. | |
governance, let's talk about what was wrong in the past, we have to | :24:19. | :24:22. | |
become better, to change our programme in that question. That | :24:23. | :24:27. | |
should be the way we lead to come to positive results. Thank you for | :24:28. | :24:34. | |
that. Before we go, there is a British commissioner that needs to | :24:35. | :24:37. | |
be appointed to Brussels, do you like the sound of that? These are | :24:38. | :24:42. | |
matters for the Prime Minister, I am sure he has many excellent | :24:43. | :24:48. | |
candidates. Do you like the sound of it? Like previous British | :24:49. | :24:56. | |
commissioners, Chris Patten, Neil clinic, I have just lost an election | :24:57. | :25:00. | |
-- Neil Kinnock for the everybody who is asked would serve, I'm sure. | :25:01. | :25:06. | |
Just days ago UKIP were celebrating topping the poll in the European | :25:07. | :25:09. | |
They're claiming they'd have had two more MEPs | :25:10. | :25:15. | |
and the Greens two fewer had another party not confused the electorate. | :25:16. | :25:18. | |
What's more UKIP say it's the fault of the body | :25:19. | :25:21. | |
which was set up to oversee elections - the Electoral Commission | :25:22. | :25:24. | |
This is a party celebrating success at the European elections. They | :25:25. | :25:37. | |
didn't win a single MEP but nationally polled 250,000 votes | :25:38. | :25:43. | |
They are an independence from Europe, mostly people who were once | :25:44. | :25:47. | |
in UKIP, and that is rather the point. They may look like capers, | :25:48. | :26:06. | |
drink like capers, sound like capers -- -- sound like kippers, but they | :26:07. | :26:14. | |
are not. The name and the logo were displayed on this banner when the | :26:15. | :26:17. | |
party launched its campaign. UKIP suggest the look, the wording and | :26:18. | :26:23. | |
the inclusion of UK in now confused voters, and are looking at rewriting | :26:24. | :26:28. | |
such a wrong. The way that seats are allocated in a European election | :26:29. | :26:32. | |
under a proportional representation system is using this formula. It was | :26:33. | :26:38. | |
invented by a Belgian mathematician in 1878 and it is essentially this. | :26:39. | :26:45. | |
When all of the votes have been tallied up, the one with the most | :26:46. | :26:49. | |
seats gets the first MEPC in a region. The others are allocated | :26:50. | :26:52. | |
using votes cast divided by the number of seats gained plus one -- | :26:53. | :27:02. | |
first MEP seat in a region. UKIP were concerned with South West and | :27:03. | :27:07. | |
London. There they say, when the last MEP seats were being allocated, | :27:08. | :27:11. | |
if everyone who had voted for an independence from Europe had meant | :27:12. | :27:15. | |
to vote for UKIP and you tallied their votes up, and added them to | :27:16. | :27:19. | |
UKIP, UKIP would have been up one in each region and the greens would | :27:20. | :27:27. | |
have lost them. Whether you can prove that voters did that by | :27:28. | :27:29. | |
mistake is a very different matter. UKIP may have to just chalk it up to | :27:30. | :27:37. | |
experience. It has happened before, back in the European elections of | :27:38. | :27:42. | |
1994. Then in England under the first past the post system. This | :27:43. | :27:48. | |
man, Richard Huggett, decided to stand as a little Democrat and | :27:49. | :27:50. | |
polled a significant number of votes. The Liberal Democrat | :27:51. | :27:57. | |
candidate at the time is now an MP. Many people voted and afterwards | :27:58. | :28:04. | |
realised that they had bubbly voted for -- probably voted for a little | :28:05. | :28:08. | |
Democrat, not a Liberal Democrat as they had been intending to do - | :28:09. | :28:15. | |
bubbly voted for a literal Democrat -- probably voted. | :28:16. | :28:22. | |
Mr Sanders got some consolation In 1998, laws came into rule on | :28:23. | :28:30. | |
so-called spoiler tactics and the Electoral Commission was | :28:31. | :28:33. | |
established. The Electoral Commission are based on the seventh | :28:34. | :28:36. | |
floor of this building and they did look into this issue prior to | :28:37. | :28:40. | |
voting. They have given us a statement that reveals the | :28:41. | :28:43. | |
conclusion they came to, part of which says, we decided that the name | :28:44. | :28:47. | |
of the party, and its description are sufficiently different to those | :28:48. | :28:52. | |
registered by the UK Independence Party, UKIP, to mean, in our | :28:53. | :28:57. | |
opinion, that voters were not likely to be confused if they appeared on | :28:58. | :29:00. | |
the same ballot paper. Pretty conclusive stuff. Back at the pub, | :29:01. | :29:07. | |
were an independence from Europe just being crafty, or do UKIP need | :29:08. | :29:12. | |
to wake up and smell the flowers? We attack them in all areas. An | :29:13. | :29:18. | |
independent study for Anglo Netherlands because I was involved | :29:19. | :29:21. | |
in the Dutch -- with the Dutch member of Parliament and the | :29:22. | :29:26. | |
description was UK Independence now, nobody has a monopoly on the word | :29:27. | :29:31. | |
independence. I have been fighting for independence since I started in | :29:32. | :29:37. | |
1994, before I joined UKIP. The party tell me they will stand again | :29:38. | :29:41. | |
at the general election next year. The ironies not lost on them or the | :29:42. | :29:48. | |
major parties of UKIP complaining that a smaller party has been taking | :29:49. | :29:49. | |
votes of them. Joining me now to discuss | :29:50. | :29:58. | |
this story is Gawain Towler. He's the UKIP candidate for the | :29:59. | :30:02. | |
South West region, who failed to get And in our Bristol studios is | :30:03. | :30:05. | |
the victorious Green MEP for How many of the 23,000 votes that | :30:06. | :30:20. | |
were cast for the Independence party were meant for you? Impossible to | :30:21. | :30:25. | |
tell. I want to congratulate Molly for getting elected. They are the | :30:26. | :30:31. | |
breaks. I do not think there is a purpose in complaining about boats | :30:32. | :30:38. | |
that are cast. Do you think you would have one otherwise? Yes, I do. | :30:39. | :30:46. | |
You have to look at the would have one otherwise? Yes, I do. | :30:47. | :30:49. | |
You have to look boats for parties people have not heard of and those | :30:50. | :30:52. | |
with a long tradition that people have heard of. I do not think there | :30:53. | :30:59. | |
is any doubt. If you saw the spoiled ballot papers, the amount of people | :31:00. | :31:05. | |
who had voted at the top and the bottom, most people are not anoraks, | :31:06. | :31:11. | |
they say, they are the people I want. They know what they are after. | :31:12. | :31:25. | |
I think it is at least told. It is said you owe your seat to And | :31:26. | :31:34. | |
Independence Party. It is strange for a man to say he could represent | :31:35. | :31:38. | |
people in the south-west better than me. There has been outpouring of | :31:39. | :31:45. | |
delight that a Green MP has finally been elected. A number of people | :31:46. | :31:52. | |
have been saying they have been voting all their lives and it is the | :31:53. | :31:55. | |
first time they have elected anybody. I am glad to represent them | :31:56. | :32:01. | |
in a significant legislature. What would you say to that? I find it | :32:02. | :32:07. | |
strange. I am perfectly happy for her to be elected. I feel the | :32:08. | :32:14. | |
electoral commission has questions to answer. But, congratulations to | :32:15. | :32:20. | |
Molly. Why do you want an extra seat for the Greens in the European | :32:21. | :32:24. | |
Parliament but your national share of the vote actually fell. We did | :32:25. | :32:31. | |
come under pressure nationally. If he is complaining about the role the | :32:32. | :32:34. | |
election commission said we could stand, the rule we were not happy | :32:35. | :32:40. | |
with was the off, ruling which said we were not a main party. We got | :32:41. | :32:44. | |
significantly less media time and that is why our belt actually fell. | :32:45. | :32:51. | |
Not on the Daily Politics or the Sunday Politics, where you were well | :32:52. | :32:59. | |
represented. Was it a problem for UKIP in other parts of the country? | :33:00. | :33:07. | |
Only in London. What do you think happened there? Very much the same. | :33:08. | :33:21. | |
I do not think there is any doubt, the number of people we have had | :33:22. | :33:24. | |
getting in touch saying, I am really sorry, I made a mess, that they | :33:25. | :33:29. | |
voted for the wrong party. They are the breaks. Politics is politics. | :33:30. | :33:34. | |
What I would like to see and what is reasonable, and I hope Molly would | :33:35. | :33:41. | |
agree, there needs to be a reform - a serious reform of the Electoral | :33:42. | :33:46. | |
Commission. There is no appeal process. They say it is not | :33:47. | :33:50. | |
confusing. Lets see if she thinks that. I make it a policy never to | :33:51. | :33:58. | |
agree with UKIP. What is important to note, if you look at the votes | :33:59. | :34:02. | |
and the way the votes fell out and the seats fell out in the | :34:03. | :34:06. | |
south-west, it is difficult for an Electoral Commission to turn boats | :34:07. | :34:11. | |
into seats. UKIP got 33% of the vote and 33% of the seats. For them, the | :34:12. | :34:17. | |
system worked very well in the south-west. Nationally, Greens did | :34:18. | :34:23. | |
not get represented as the vote share would require. That is because | :34:24. | :34:27. | |
you get very small number of seats in the different regions and you | :34:28. | :34:32. | |
have to reach a high threshold. The Green Party has a right to complain | :34:33. | :34:36. | |
about the level of seats we have ended up with. White rapper you have | :34:37. | :34:39. | |
complaints about the Electoral Commission? We need to move to a | :34:40. | :34:46. | |
proportional system for elections generally. If we poll around 7% 8%, | :34:47. | :34:52. | |
we should be looking at having 0, 40 seats in the national | :34:53. | :34:57. | |
legislature. We need to consider proportional representation for | :34:58. | :35:00. | |
national elections. Do you accept the ballot paper may have confused | :35:01. | :35:05. | |
some people? I think what happened is that some people in UKIP were | :35:06. | :35:07. | |
very worried. Worried about the is that some people in UKIP were | :35:08. | :35:14. | |
rightward move of UKIP and the authoritarian leadership of Nigel | :35:15. | :35:18. | |
Farage. He set up a separate party. That is what happens in politics, | :35:19. | :35:23. | |
particularly when parties are led by demagogues and are not focused on | :35:24. | :35:34. | |
Democratic policy. Do you have any legal redress to this? None | :35:35. | :35:39. | |
whatsoever. Have you had legal advice? I am told there is no | :35:40. | :35:48. | |
redress. We do feel, I am sure Molly does not agree with UKIP on anything | :35:49. | :35:53. | |
so, if we say the sun rises in the morning, she probably will disagree | :35:54. | :35:58. | |
with that. If, at the next election, there is a party called the Grown | :35:59. | :36:06. | |
Party, will she then complain? There needs to be some level of | :36:07. | :36:11. | |
accountability and, without that, one wonders what is going on. We | :36:12. | :36:17. | |
have an organisation with enormous and important power and influence | :36:18. | :36:21. | |
which is setup to stop this of thing going on. It has failed. Not has it | :36:22. | :36:28. | |
has failed. Not present served in Tower Hamlets and there have been | :36:29. | :36:31. | |
massive problems with postal votes. It is failing on almost everything | :36:32. | :36:38. | |
it is supposed to do. Just to go back for a final point from Molly. | :36:39. | :36:42. | |
Should there be a right of appeal to the rulings of the Electoral | :36:43. | :36:47. | |
Commission? You need to have an authoritative body that makes | :36:48. | :36:50. | |
decisions in this area and we have the Electoral Commission. It is | :36:51. | :36:54. | |
about being sore losers on the part of UKIP. I am delighted to represent | :36:55. | :37:00. | |
people in the South West. Should there be a right of appeal or not? | :37:01. | :37:06. | |
You need an authoritative body and the Electoral Commission is that. I | :37:07. | :37:09. | |
do not think it should have a right to appeal. | :37:10. | :37:11. | |
We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now | :37:12. | :37:16. | |
Coming up here in 20 minutes, we'll be discussing extremism | :37:17. | :37:30. | |
Hello and a warm welcome to your local part of the show. | :37:31. | :37:33. | |
This week: rising demand and deteriorating response times ` the | :37:34. | :37:37. | |
North East ambulance servicd is struggling to cope. The Prile | :37:38. | :37:39. | |
Minister promised to investhgate ` so what's being done? In thd studio | :37:40. | :37:43. | |
discussing that ` and of cotrse the Queen's Speech is the Hartldpool | :37:44. | :37:46. | |
Labour MP Iain Wright and Conservative Jeremy Middleton. | :37:47. | :37:52. | |
The Government this week set out its "to do" list for the rest of this | :37:53. | :37:56. | |
Parliament. It ranges from introducing charges for plastic bags | :37:57. | :37:58. | |
in supermarkets to help for child`care and a shake`up of the | :37:59. | :38:01. | |
planning system. But there's no doubt about its over`arching | :38:02. | :38:04. | |
message: that the Government is "unashamedly pro`work and | :38:05. | :38:06. | |
pro`business" and is sticking to its economic plan. As if to reinforce | :38:07. | :38:09. | |
the point the deputy Prime Linister Nick Clegg was on Wearside on | :38:10. | :38:13. | |
Thursday ` together with thd Business Secretary Vince Cable. They | :38:14. | :38:15. | |
were opening a new ?100 million Rolls Royce aerospace factory in | :38:16. | :38:18. | |
Washington. Nick Clegg said such developments were helping the | :38:19. | :38:21. | |
We are on a long`term journdy, if you like. The North`South dhvide has | :38:22. | :38:32. | |
been around for a long time. It s got deep roots and we're not going | :38:33. | :38:35. | |
to solve it overnight. But H do think we're taking steps in the | :38:36. | :38:39. | |
right direction. I say this as the most senior member of this | :38:40. | :38:42. | |
government, from a large northern city, from Sheffield, it's something | :38:43. | :38:45. | |
I care about passionately. What you see behind me is really, I think, an | :38:46. | :38:49. | |
absolutely key ingredient for the future to heal the North`Sotth | :38:50. | :38:51. | |
divide and to boost the fortunes of the North East. | :38:52. | :38:58. | |
Well, Labour has welcomed the investment but accuses ministers of | :38:59. | :39:00. | |
ignoring the big issues in the Queen's speech. In particul`r they | :39:01. | :39:03. | |
want action to tackle job insecurity, youth unemploymdnt and | :39:04. | :39:06. | |
the housing shortage. So dods the Government have a programme for the | :39:07. | :39:09. | |
next year that will help Culbria and the North East? | :39:10. | :39:12. | |
Jeremy Middleton, whether you think this was thin pickings or not, there | :39:13. | :39:19. | |
was nothing much to boost pdople's living standards or get people into | :39:20. | :39:23. | |
work, was there? I think the most important thing is | :39:24. | :39:27. | |
that we keep the economic rdcovery going. We've got the fastest rate of | :39:28. | :39:31. | |
growth in all of Europe. We got falling unemployment, rising | :39:32. | :39:33. | |
employment, low inflation, the right ingredients for success. Thd most | :39:34. | :39:36. | |
important thing is to keep that going. That doesn't require further | :39:37. | :39:39. | |
legislation. I know some wotld suggest it does. We hear from Mr | :39:40. | :39:42. | |
Miliband a great deal about he is going to intervene in markets. | :39:43. | :39:46. | |
That is because people do not feel the benefit of economic growth. | :39:47. | :39:53. | |
Well, at the moment, not enough people are feeling the benefit. That | :39:54. | :39:59. | |
is true. But you have to look at the growth and where that leads. And it | :40:00. | :40:03. | |
takes time. But the factors remain, what is not the answer is to have | :40:04. | :40:09. | |
some kind of return to 1970s intervention. That will takd us back | :40:10. | :40:12. | |
to higher unemployment and lower growth. | :40:13. | :40:18. | |
Iain Wright ` Jeremy Middleton has a point there. You cannot leghslate | :40:19. | :40:22. | |
for growth, can you? You can put in place the conditions | :40:23. | :40:27. | |
to make sure that economic growth is sustainable and fair. Jeremx talks | :40:28. | :40:32. | |
about an economic recovery. Any economic growth is welcome. But my | :40:33. | :40:34. | |
constituents in Hartlepool, and elsewhere across the North Dast are | :40:35. | :40:41. | |
certainly not feeling it. Wd're seeing rising job insecuritx, actual | :40:42. | :40:44. | |
falling wage levels, let alone relative wage levels, so wh`t we | :40:45. | :40:48. | |
need to be doing is ensuring the economic recovery is sustainable and | :40:49. | :40:50. | |
for all. We did not have that in the Queens | :40:51. | :40:52. | |
speech. There was some important sttff in | :40:53. | :40:55. | |
there that will benefit your constituents. Pension changds, help | :40:56. | :40:58. | |
on childcare, free school mdals All helping your constituents. | :40:59. | :41:01. | |
A lot of that has been calldd for by Labour for many years. This is a | :41:02. | :41:05. | |
mishmash. In terms of housing, the construction sector is an ilportant | :41:06. | :41:12. | |
part of the North East economy. What the Government said in the Pueen's | :41:13. | :41:15. | |
speech about creating 15,000 houses is welcome. We actually need 20 ,000 | :41:16. | :41:19. | |
homes a year. That would re`lly boost the construction industry and | :41:20. | :41:21. | |
help workers in Hartlepool `nd elsewhere. | :41:22. | :41:29. | |
Jeremy Middleton, this is an important point. You have ldss than | :41:30. | :41:33. | |
a year until the election to prove what kind of legacy you havd had | :41:34. | :41:38. | |
over the last five years. And on the issue of housing, never allowing | :41:39. | :41:40. | |
fracking under people's homds, but not actually building new houses. | :41:41. | :41:47. | |
I do not think that is corrdct. Housebuilding is going up. @nd it | :41:48. | :41:51. | |
will go up an awful lot mord. Legislation has been announced to | :41:52. | :41:54. | |
free up planning so we build more houses. | :41:55. | :41:56. | |
But you are fracking under people's homes. | :41:57. | :41:58. | |
That is a separate issue. And actually one I am very keen to | :41:59. | :42:01. | |
support. Fracking is the most realistic way of reducing energy | :42:02. | :42:04. | |
bills. And it will help energy intensive industries on Teesside and | :42:05. | :42:05. | |
in Iain's constituency. What would you support thosd motors | :42:06. | :42:23. | |
came out I do not disagree with fracking as part of a responsible | :42:24. | :42:27. | |
energy mix. But my constitudnts are concerned, since the Queen's speech | :42:28. | :42:32. | |
about fracking under their homes. That should not be allowed. There | :42:33. | :42:37. | |
should be a need for proper regulation, proper scientifhc, | :42:38. | :42:40. | |
empirical evidence based on fracking. What the Government has | :42:41. | :42:46. | |
said, and I urge constituents to get involved, is a consultation about | :42:47. | :42:49. | |
planning permission for fracking under their homes. 's we have to | :42:50. | :42:52. | |
leave it there. Labour MPs are demanding urgent | :42:53. | :42:57. | |
action to tackle what they say is a mounting crisis in the North East | :42:58. | :43:01. | |
Ambulance Service. All this week, BBC Look North has reported on | :43:02. | :43:04. | |
problems facing the Trust which is dealing with a huge increasd in the | :43:05. | :43:07. | |
number of emergency calls. Some patients are facing long delays for | :43:08. | :43:10. | |
an ambulance like Geoff Pearson from County Durham whose mother broke her | :43:11. | :43:13. | |
hip in a fall. He had to waht three You are helpless. You cannot do | :43:14. | :43:22. | |
anything. You're just waiting for the professionals. It is an anxious | :43:23. | :43:30. | |
time. I could not believe it. I could not believe how you could have | :43:31. | :43:36. | |
that many people waiting for an emergency ambulance. | :43:37. | :43:41. | |
The North East Ambulance service does reach 80% of the most seriously | :43:42. | :43:45. | |
ill in 8 minutes. And for p`tients who do not have a life`thre`tening | :43:46. | :43:48. | |
condition it aims to respond within 30 minutes. But the man running the | :43:49. | :43:52. | |
trust says both costs ` and the number of calls ` are continuing to | :43:53. | :43:55. | |
increase. And he warned that without more money, difficult choicds will | :43:56. | :43:58. | |
If demand goes up by 5% every year, and I have the same real resources | :43:59. | :44:08. | |
to deal with it, then I will deal with the most life threatendd | :44:09. | :44:11. | |
people. I will save as many lives as I possibly can. Others will not get | :44:12. | :44:17. | |
the quality of service that they would like. We have created a very | :44:18. | :44:25. | |
lean organisation. We will continue to do that if we need to. Bdcause | :44:26. | :44:30. | |
the system cannot give us any more. We're in a recession. Taxpaxers | :44:31. | :44:36. | |
provide the funding for public services. The police, the Fhre | :44:37. | :44:43. | |
Service, the Ambulance Servhce, hospitals... In the end it hs the | :44:44. | :44:49. | |
voters who will determine which party they wish to see npowdr and | :44:50. | :44:53. | |
what the party says they ard willing to spend. `` to see in power. | :44:54. | :45:03. | |
A challenge to all the parthes there. Well, the Government points | :45:04. | :45:06. | |
out that the NHS Budget has been protected from cuts and it dxpects | :45:07. | :45:09. | |
the ambulance service trust to act urgently to correct the problems | :45:10. | :45:12. | |
Jeremy Middleton, if it was your family waiting, you would w`nt | :45:13. | :45:17. | |
something done about this. H would not be impressed by a response like | :45:18. | :45:23. | |
that one. First of all, it hs very disturbing, the cases you h`ve | :45:24. | :45:28. | |
raised. Ian is quite right to raise these cases. But the second point is | :45:29. | :45:34. | |
that the whole Ambulance Service is not in crisis, there was a review | :45:35. | :45:39. | |
last year and that said that 97 of cases saw a response within 90 | :45:40. | :45:47. | |
minutes. We were rated the best in the country. | :45:48. | :45:55. | |
There will be tough choices. There have been worrying things. H think | :45:56. | :46:03. | |
the question is, first of all, he says it is the overall level of | :46:04. | :46:08. | |
expenditure. It is absolutely not. That would be a valid point if the | :46:09. | :46:13. | |
Government had been reducing expenditure. But the NHS has been | :46:14. | :46:17. | |
protected. But not keeping up with the number | :46:18. | :46:22. | |
of calls... The question is what is going wrong? From the cases I have | :46:23. | :46:29. | |
seen, there are a number of specific issues, prioritisation, I al no | :46:30. | :46:38. | |
expert, but I think some of the prioritisation is not correct. | :46:39. | :46:42. | |
Ambulances waiting outside @ departments. These questions must be | :46:43. | :46:46. | |
addressed by the board of the north`eastern town service, who gets | :46:47. | :46:51. | |
money from the doctors and commissioners. It is how thd money | :46:52. | :46:55. | |
is being spent. You talked about this service being | :46:56. | :47:01. | |
in crisis. Is that not a bit strong? It is the fastest service in the | :47:02. | :47:04. | |
country. I raised this matter in Parliament. | :47:05. | :47:09. | |
There was a distressing casd in my constituency where a man didd, | :47:10. | :47:14. | |
waiting to ours for an ambulance on his bathroom floor. The inqtest said | :47:15. | :47:21. | |
that they did not have resotrces to meet demand. Jeremy is wrong. It has | :47:22. | :47:26. | |
not been protected. The north`east and on service has seen acttal cuts. | :47:27. | :47:33. | |
This year it has seen a cut of 1.35 billion. Rising demand, and ageing | :47:34. | :47:39. | |
population, and cutting resources... | :47:40. | :47:45. | |
Is the answer that Labour is committed to putting more money into | :47:46. | :47:48. | |
Ambulance Services? What needs to be done, is the NHS | :47:49. | :47:54. | |
must be viewed in a holistic manner. The Ambulance Service must be | :47:55. | :47:57. | |
recognised as the glue that holds it together. | :47:58. | :48:01. | |
But you cannot it promises... It is absolutely right that we put | :48:02. | :48:05. | |
more resources into our Ambtlance Service. I want to insure mx | :48:06. | :48:10. | |
constituents receive the best possible service at a time of acute | :48:11. | :48:15. | |
anxiety, if your mother has broken her hip, you want to make stre you | :48:16. | :48:24. | |
get a swift and professional... Germany made an important point in | :48:25. | :48:32. | |
that when you call for help, what questions are asked of you? That is | :48:33. | :48:40. | |
an important thing. Making sure there is professional, clinhcally | :48:41. | :48:45. | |
led, 909 response. Jeremy Middleton, people will look | :48:46. | :48:52. | |
at this and say that Labour is correct. The NHS is not safd in | :48:53. | :48:59. | |
Conservative hands. Well, I think we are both right. There is more money | :49:00. | :49:07. | |
going into the NHS. He did not promise more money. But what he is | :49:08. | :49:10. | |
suggesting is that they think there should be more money in the | :49:11. | :49:14. | |
Ambulance Service there shotld be. But it is the job of the bo`rd of | :49:15. | :49:18. | |
the ambulance trust to perstade the doctors and those in the NHS that | :49:19. | :49:21. | |
they should commission and have more money. Either they are failhng to | :49:22. | :49:29. | |
persuade them, or they are not operationally efficient. | :49:30. | :49:34. | |
If I am a patient, I hear these arguments about who is provhding | :49:35. | :49:40. | |
money, who is taking charge? Why the Government not taking chargd? In the | :49:41. | :49:47. | |
eastern region of the country, where there is also concern about | :49:48. | :49:51. | |
ambulance trusts, they created a great deal of fuss about thhs and | :49:52. | :49:55. | |
ended up getting rid of the entire board and change the managelent and | :49:56. | :49:59. | |
now they have improved results. I am not saying that is what shotld | :50:00. | :50:03. | |
happen here. But this is for doctors and professionals within thd NHS to | :50:04. | :50:06. | |
decide how they allocate thdir money. The Chief Executive `nd | :50:07. | :50:11. | |
politicians are seeing it as nothing to do with us, but that is just an | :50:12. | :50:15. | |
easy answer. You're playing the blame gale, | :50:16. | :50:21. | |
basically. No. I am standing up for my | :50:22. | :50:32. | |
constituents. I am not using this as a stick to beat the Governmdnt. I | :50:33. | :50:36. | |
want a first`class Ambulancd Service for my constituents and the rest of | :50:37. | :50:39. | |
the North East. When things go wrong, it seems to be very bad and | :50:40. | :50:45. | |
has fatal consequences. Rishng demand and cutting resources is not | :50:46. | :50:49. | |
the answer. It is a difficult subject. Sure we | :50:50. | :50:50. | |
will come back to it. Now, in a 100 day?s time Scots will | :50:51. | :50:54. | |
be about to decide on whethdr they want to become independent. It's a | :50:55. | :50:59. | |
decision which also matters to the North East and Cumbria. In the past | :51:00. | :51:02. | |
it has sometimes been locked in battle with Scotland for jobs and | :51:03. | :51:05. | |
inward investment. So what does business here think an independent | :51:06. | :51:08. | |
Scotland will mean for them? Well to try and find out, the Chambdr of | :51:09. | :51:12. | |
Commerce in the region asked more than 240 of its members. Here's our | :51:13. | :51:15. | |
political correspondent Mark Denten. A business Park in Newcastld. Jobs | :51:16. | :51:21. | |
are being created here. But, as you can see, still plenty of empty | :51:22. | :51:30. | |
space. Offices like this ond are crying out for tenants. The jobs | :51:31. | :51:34. | |
that could have come here h`ve gone to Scotland instead. One colpany | :51:35. | :51:40. | |
were considering bringing jobs here, but chose to relocate to Scotland | :51:41. | :51:47. | |
instead. An independent Scotland could be an even fiercer colpetitor. | :51:48. | :51:52. | |
As Edinburgh's nearest neighbour, we will feel it. We need to have more | :51:53. | :51:59. | |
control over spending. More control over how are offering is perceived | :52:00. | :52:05. | |
to these large occupiers. To ensure the cameramen competitor. | :52:06. | :52:09. | |
Concerns among businesses in the region are coming into sharper | :52:10. | :52:14. | |
focus, as Scotland prepares to vote on independence. Around 240 | :52:15. | :52:19. | |
companies in Cumbria and thd north`east gave their views to the | :52:20. | :52:28. | |
BBC any questionnaire. 63 South that is an independent Scotland were to | :52:29. | :52:32. | |
cut corporation tax, they mhght consider investing north of the | :52:33. | :52:37. | |
border rather than in this region. But the majority, 176, said it would | :52:38. | :52:40. | |
make no difference to their investment decisions. That hs the | :52:41. | :52:50. | |
case for this Durham firm. Hn the last few weeks, the body Scottish | :52:51. | :52:54. | |
building firm. They are confident of their future. This is a str`tegic | :52:55. | :53:02. | |
decision to expand our business We are employing a lot of people. In | :53:03. | :53:06. | |
Scotland and Cumbria. What difference should make you | :53:07. | :53:13. | |
construction works across borders. We have international companies | :53:14. | :53:16. | |
working within the UK. So what is the difference? | :53:17. | :53:20. | |
The Chamber of Commerce said that the biggest problem is the lack of | :53:21. | :53:24. | |
information. We have heard that businesses are holding back on | :53:25. | :53:26. | |
investing because they are waiting to see what the outcome of the | :53:27. | :53:31. | |
referendum is. That is a disappointing situation. Thdre is an | :53:32. | :53:36. | |
inevitability about it, but I think that people on both sides of the | :53:37. | :53:40. | |
debate should do more to provide clarity for business. | :53:41. | :53:45. | |
Most businesses in the region are confident they can punch thdir | :53:46. | :53:49. | |
but there are concerns from some but but there are concerns from some but | :53:50. | :53:51. | |
it could leave gaps in our dconomy. Well earlier Mark spoke to Hvan | :53:52. | :53:56. | |
McKee from Business for Scotland ` that's an organisation which | :53:57. | :53:59. | |
supports independence and is affiliated to the Yes campahgn. He | :54:00. | :54:02. | |
asked first whether an independent Scotland would succeed at the | :54:03. | :54:05. | |
expense of our region. It is not a 0`sum game. At the | :54:06. | :54:15. | |
moment, we're in the same UK. I think, an independent Scotl`nd is a | :54:16. | :54:23. | |
growth engine, which is what this is about, focusing on policies that | :54:24. | :54:32. | |
work for Scotland, which is very different from the focus of | :54:33. | :54:35. | |
Westminster on the South of England. I think people in the North East | :54:36. | :54:41. | |
very much understand this. They have seen this centralisation ovdr the | :54:42. | :54:46. | |
decades. Scotland has a strong and vibrant economy and that will | :54:47. | :54:51. | |
benefit the North East. But the reality is that in lany | :54:52. | :55:00. | |
cases we are competitors in the oil and gas and renewables industry Our | :55:01. | :55:06. | |
companies are competing with your companies. Everyone cannot win. | :55:07. | :55:12. | |
Economic growth benefit everybody. The oil sector has seen record | :55:13. | :55:19. | |
investment. There are many people in this part of England who tr`vel to | :55:20. | :55:25. | |
work in Scotland and benefit from that growing sector. There hs plenty | :55:26. | :55:33. | |
of work for all kinds of colpanies. Renewables will be a huge growth | :55:34. | :55:36. | |
sector for the Scottish economy in the years going forward and there is | :55:37. | :55:41. | |
no reason why companies in this part of England should not benefht from | :55:42. | :55:46. | |
that. At the end of the day, it is a European market. It works across | :55:47. | :55:51. | |
borders. That will continue as it does at the moment. A growing | :55:52. | :55:56. | |
Scottish economy can only bd good for this part of England. | :55:57. | :56:07. | |
Labour MPs in the north`east are concerned about central Parhs and | :56:08. | :56:10. | |
London. But could the north`east economy not benefit from a shift in | :56:11. | :56:17. | |
power to Glasgow and Edinburgh? I think we're better togethdr. We | :56:18. | :56:21. | |
are more successful as the Tnited Kingdom. Further restrictions does | :56:22. | :56:26. | |
not help anybody. Is it not a fair point to stggest | :56:27. | :56:33. | |
that having a capital city closer to us is a good thing? | :56:34. | :56:38. | |
I do not think that is the right answer. It is important to recognise | :56:39. | :56:42. | |
that our economy is too distorted towards London and the South East, | :56:43. | :56:46. | |
but the answer is giving us greater powers in the regions to be able to | :56:47. | :56:51. | |
fulfil our destiny. We have huge advantages in the North East, | :56:52. | :56:56. | |
industrial strengths, give ts the powers to achieve our potential | :56:57. | :57:06. | |
If renewable energy takes off in an independent Scotland, could the | :57:07. | :57:08. | |
North East the a beneficiarx of that? What I am concerned about | :57:09. | :57:19. | |
whether they vote yes or no, is that Scotland will have a transfdr of tax | :57:20. | :57:25. | |
and spend authority, and thdy will take money from the south E`st and | :57:26. | :57:28. | |
use it against us. The dangdr is that it is used effectively to bribe | :57:29. | :57:33. | |
businesses to operate in Scotland who would otherwise operate in the | :57:34. | :57:38. | |
North East. We need reassur`nces from the prime minister and the | :57:39. | :57:43. | |
Chancellor that we will not be at an economic disadvantage. Everx single | :57:44. | :57:48. | |
political party is offering more tax`and`spend because of thd | :57:49. | :57:53. | |
election. We need to ensure that the north`east is not put at a | :57:54. | :57:57. | |
disadvantage. Scotland alre`dy has more spending per head than the | :57:58. | :58:01. | |
north`east. Should they balance more powers | :58:02. | :58:11. | |
here? They should ensure thd north`east is not at an economic | :58:12. | :58:15. | |
disadvantage. Ideally, that would be done by ensuring that Scotl`nd | :58:16. | :58:22. | |
cannot bribe businesses. Thd alternative is potentially we need | :58:23. | :58:25. | |
more economic Government powers here. | :58:26. | :58:29. | |
Is the danger not that we gdt more companies like Amazon reloc`ting to | :58:30. | :58:33. | |
Scotland? They have not formally put hn place | :58:34. | :58:40. | |
that investment. The point hs that it is not in anybody's interests to | :58:41. | :58:47. | |
have a race to the bottom. We should remain as a United Kingdom. | :58:48. | :58:58. | |
Now, the Queen's speech may have had all the pomp and ceremony this week | :58:59. | :59:02. | |
` but back in the Commons chamber a Teesside MP was interested hn | :59:03. | :59:06. | |
With that and the rest of the week's news here's Fergus Hewison. | :59:07. | :59:10. | |
All buses carrying passengers should be fitted with seat belts, says | :59:11. | :59:13. | |
North West Durham MP Pat Gl`ss. She made the remarks after a collision | :59:14. | :59:17. | |
which injured 30 people, including 28 children. | :59:18. | :59:18. | |
Meanwhile, Tom Blenkinsop, Labour's Middlesbrough South and East | :59:19. | :59:21. | |
Cleveland MP, wants all households affected by flooding to recdive | :59:22. | :59:23. | |
The Government must act to protect all households from the dam`ging | :59:24. | :59:27. | |
effects of flooding. Not just those in urban areas, or where thdre is a | :59:28. | :59:31. | |
high media presence. I would also urge the government to extend the | :59:32. | :59:34. | |
support and emphasis it has given to areas hit last winter by flooding to | :59:35. | :59:38. | |
places like East Cleveland, which were hit earlier in the year. | :59:39. | :59:44. | |
New figures released this wdek reveal seven areas in the North East | :59:45. | :59:47. | |
and Cumbria are among the worst in the country for the number of empty | :59:48. | :59:51. | |
homes. South Lakeland, Hartlepool, Gateshead and Copeland are `mong the | :59:52. | :59:54. | |
top 20. The Queen's speech contained plans to allow elections for | :59:55. | :59:57. | |
National Parks authorities ` a move the Government says will address a | :59:58. | :00:00. | |
democratic deficit. And finally, Durham County Council | :00:01. | :00:02. | |
has launched a consultation on banning people from smoking in | :00:03. | :00:04. | |
That's about it from us. Don't forget to follow me on Twitter ` I | :00:05. | :00:16. | |
may even follow you back, in the nicest possible fashion. We'll be | :00:17. | :00:20. | |
here same time same place ndxt weekend ` hope you can join me then. | :00:21. | :00:22. | |
my guests. That is it for the Sunday Politics in London. Back to Andrew. | :00:23. | :00:35. | |
Is enough being done to tackle extremism in schools? | :00:36. | :00:39. | |
Will Mr Cameron stopped Mr Junker, will make | :00:40. | :00:48. | |
we are joined by the founder of the Quilliam Association. If you read | :00:49. | :01:10. | |
the Sunday Telegraph this morning, there is a real problem. If you read | :01:11. | :01:14. | |
the Observer, there is not much of a problem. What is the situation in | :01:15. | :01:29. | |
your view in Birmingham? Allegations are seen to be -- if music was not | :01:30. | :01:36. | |
being taught as it should be. Instead of the rating the national | :01:37. | :01:41. | |
holidays here during the Christmas period, children were sent off | :01:42. | :01:44. | |
instead on religious pilgrimage to Mecca, then I think something is | :01:45. | :01:50. | |
going on. From my knowledge, I know about some of the strategies to | :01:51. | :01:59. | |
influence. These strategies are known as gradualism. The idea, like | :02:00. | :02:04. | |
the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt is to join the institutions of society | :02:05. | :02:10. | |
and influence from within -- from within. It is a gradual approach to | :02:11. | :02:17. | |
Islamicisation society. We have seen that happening in other areas, such | :02:18. | :02:23. | |
as the decision by the Law Society to call it shy and issue it out as | :02:24. | :02:28. | |
guidance for solicitors. They are saying this means that women inherit | :02:29. | :02:31. | |
half of what men saying this means that women inherit | :02:32. | :02:40. | |
and adopted children do not get any inheritance. Apostates do not get | :02:41. | :02:41. | |
any inheritance. These are guidelines being issued by the Law | :02:42. | :02:45. | |
Society by Islamic. It is a medieval take on Islam. That is what is | :02:46. | :02:52. | |
meant. We see the same names popping up again and again in different | :02:53. | :02:58. | |
situations in Birmingham. Is it a planned infiltration? In my | :02:59. | :03:02. | |
profession of you and planned infiltration? In my | :03:03. | :03:05. | |
profession of you having spent 3 years on the leadership of an | :03:06. | :03:08. | |
Islamist organisation, having been involved | :03:09. | :03:21. | |
Islamist organisation, having been and setting up schools, I am very | :03:22. | :03:21. | |
Islamist organisation, having been certain is a deliberate plan to | :03:22. | :03:21. | |
influence the students of this country with a medieval | :03:22. | :03:26. | |
interpretation of my own faith to bring about a medieval, conservative | :03:27. | :03:29. | |
view, and enforce things like segregation on boys and girls within | :03:30. | :03:34. | |
our public institutions. With these things be acceptable if they were | :03:35. | :03:41. | |
explicitly they schools? If they were state. We had state Anglican | :03:42. | :03:46. | |
faith schools. We have state Catholic faith schools as well. | :03:47. | :03:52. | |
Would it be acceptable if these were state Islamic schools? That is a | :03:53. | :03:57. | |
policy question. I am not generally in favour. I would believe in this | :03:58. | :04:03. | |
establishment. I am not a fan of faith schools. I do think the | :04:04. | :04:10. | |
solution is to ban them. I do think these schools should start working | :04:11. | :04:14. | |
out with an engaging with the wider communities and not being insular | :04:15. | :04:18. | |
and looking inwards. It is very important. The Ofsted report is | :04:19. | :04:22. | |
coming out tomorrow. We have already had a taste about what it is saying | :04:23. | :04:29. | |
about some of the schools. Is it a serious problem? It is a very | :04:30. | :04:33. | |
serious problem. It comes from the segregation of children into | :04:34. | :04:40. | |
intensely populated areas where everyone is Muslim virtually. You | :04:41. | :04:43. | |
have to have a system of spreading children between schools. It very | :04:44. | :04:49. | |
often happens, even with a secular school like this. Nearby Catholic or | :04:50. | :04:53. | |
Church of England schools become like-for-like schools and that | :04:54. | :04:56. | |
leaves the rest of the state schools to become all of one faith. I think | :04:57. | :05:01. | |
all of the parties are being quite hypocritical about the profound | :05:02. | :05:05. | |
problem of continuing to have faith schools. You have Orthodox Jewish | :05:06. | :05:10. | |
schools with extraordinary dogma being taught. Indeed very strict | :05:11. | :05:13. | |
Catholic schools with amazing dogma being taught. To somehow only get | :05:14. | :05:19. | |
worried when it is Islamic, when it is Muslim schools, becomes a | :05:20. | :05:23. | |
problem. You have to look at the whole issue and said the state | :05:24. | :05:27. | |
should simply withdraw from the business of faith education. Like | :05:28. | :05:40. | |
France? Yes, a secular school. The overall government policy is to take | :05:41. | :05:46. | |
power away. The dilemma with that is that it comes with dangers. Some | :05:47. | :05:51. | |
schools will be incompetent and some schools will be more than | :05:52. | :05:54. | |
incompetent, they will be maligned in some respects. The one bit of | :05:55. | :05:58. | |
this policy which has never been entirely squared is how do you | :05:59. | :06:04. | |
devolve and retain a basic minimum of educational standards and | :06:05. | :06:07. | |
behavioural standards while doing it? There is an even deeper quandary | :06:08. | :06:12. | |
for Britain. We have prided ourselves on allowing radical views | :06:13. | :06:16. | |
that stop short of violence. We took on Karl Marx and the rest of Europe | :06:17. | :06:21. | |
would not have him. The rest of Europe could not believe how | :06:22. | :06:24. | |
tolerably well of radical preachers in the 1990s. Do we stick with that | :06:25. | :06:28. | |
view? The risks were greater than they were 100 years ago. We do | :06:29. | :06:36. | |
expect, whatever peoples faith, that our children, at the expense of the | :06:37. | :06:41. | |
taxpayer, are educated, not instructed, not indoctrinated, | :06:42. | :06:46. | |
educated. We do expect that and also that boys and girls are treated | :06:47. | :06:49. | |
equally. One of the things the board in Birmingham will be looking at | :06:50. | :06:53. | |
which has Andrew Mitchell on it the former development Secretary, | :06:54. | :06:57. | |
because he is a Birmingham MP full Sutton, they are really concerned | :06:58. | :07:01. | |
about whether the girls are being treated as second-class citizens. | :07:02. | :07:06. | |
There has been a lot of work done on empowerment of girls. Shirley | :07:07. | :07:11. | |
Williams made the point that what Michael Gove has done by creating | :07:12. | :07:15. | |
free schools and academies is undermined the work of local | :07:16. | :07:18. | |
education authorities. They think they are traditional bodies which | :07:19. | :07:25. | |
are not open to reform. One school in Birmingham which is accused of | :07:26. | :07:31. | |
being in trouble is a local education school. They cannot have | :07:32. | :07:37. | |
the other side. Under Michael Gove, they are answerable to the Secretary | :07:38. | :07:41. | |
of State. It is down to Ofsted. Ofsted is giving the schools, not | :07:42. | :07:47. | |
that long ago, outstanding marks. There are big questions about the | :07:48. | :07:50. | |
oversight of schools. Tristan Hunt was trying to answer that point By | :07:51. | :07:55. | |
tapping it cannot all have gone pear shaped in two years. How do you | :07:56. | :08:02. | |
think that will play out? -- it cannot have gone pear shaped. The | :08:03. | :08:09. | |
story was broken in February. It will keep playing out. The report | :08:10. | :08:13. | |
that was due out Ofsted is tomorrow or Monday. Then there is the other | :08:14. | :08:17. | |
report that will look into wider questions, that will come out in | :08:18. | :08:21. | |
July, I think. We are expecting two points. -- reports. We have to look | :08:22. | :08:31. | |
at questions of Ofsted and other institutions in our society, even | :08:32. | :08:36. | |
government departments, where idea of taxing non-violent extremism | :08:37. | :08:43. | |
became a too boot in this country. -- a taboo. They must be rebuffed | :08:44. | :08:48. | |
the challenge, as we would expect racism to be challenged. In the | :08:49. | :08:54. | |
argument between Michael Gove and Theresa May, where do you side? They | :08:55. | :09:00. | |
should be challenged openly and robust leap by civilian society It | :09:01. | :09:04. | |
was settled by the Prime Minister and is government policy. I had a | :09:05. | :09:14. | |
hand in advising or consulting. I think Fiona Cunningham was forced to | :09:15. | :09:22. | |
resign because what she did violates official government policy. It just | :09:23. | :09:35. | |
has not been implemented yet. Will Mr Cameron succeed with Juncke? | :09:36. | :09:46. | |
You'll agree he have to decide whether he will spirit at stopping | :09:47. | :09:50. | |
him or accepting him as commission president and ask in return for a | :09:51. | :09:54. | |
massive commission portfolio for Britain, something like the internal | :09:55. | :09:58. | |
market, which they missed out on last time. It is a diplomatic | :09:59. | :10:04. | |
decision he have to make. It is too late for that he is into deep. If he | :10:05. | :10:10. | |
takes over the job, Cameron is left with egg on its face. From the | :10:11. | :10:18. | |
beginning, he did not have his voice with the weight of the British | :10:19. | :10:21. | |
Conservative Party, with ankle and Arkle, the rest of them. He is | :10:22. | :10:28. | |
reaping -- Angela Merkel, the rest of them. He is reaping that reward. | :10:29. | :10:35. | |
There is a lot of support within Europe. In Germany, there was a lot | :10:36. | :10:43. | |
of opposition to David Cameron getting his way. I know him from | :10:44. | :10:48. | |
Brussels. He is entertaining, you go to dinner with him and he smokes and | :10:49. | :10:53. | |
drinks. He is entertaining but he is the most awful person you could | :10:54. | :10:57. | |
think of having trying to sort of symbolise a new European Union. I | :10:58. | :11:01. | |
remember I was there join the Luxembourg presidency in 2005 when | :11:02. | :11:04. | |
the voters in France and the Netherlands voted no to the European | :11:05. | :11:07. | |
constitution, what was his response to that? Let's carry on with the | :11:08. | :11:13. | |
ratification process of this treaty that has been comprehensively | :11:14. | :11:20. | |
rejected by voters. He did not say the final bit of that sentence. You | :11:21. | :11:24. | |
can see why Eurosceptics want him. He has blown a raspy at all the | :11:25. | :11:29. | |
people who have protested at the elections with the way the European | :11:30. | :11:31. | |
Union is going. -- blown a Rasberry. This is your most popular... What | :11:32. | :11:54. | |
has come in most recently is doing really well. This is yours. There we | :11:55. | :12:07. | |
go. Cheers! By our people so cynical? They always go for a drink | :12:08. | :12:10. | |
at 11am and they pull their own pipes. I see them every day. -- pts. | :12:11. | :12:21. | |
Is there anything Mr Clegg can do is to mark the idea is to define | :12:22. | :12:25. | |
clearly a liberal brand, or at least I hope it is. It is not good enough | :12:26. | :12:29. | |
for us to say the Liberal Democrats challenge the Tories on this, on the | :12:30. | :12:33. | |
fairer society, and challenge the Labour Party on a strong economy. We | :12:34. | :12:37. | |
need to define what we stand for. That is what I call a liberal brand, | :12:38. | :12:43. | |
assertive liberalism. I have been there myself and I think that is | :12:44. | :12:47. | |
what he will be speaking about. Standing up for liberal values, to | :12:48. | :12:55. | |
finding -- defining what they are. Disestablishment in getting younger | :12:56. | :12:58. | |
people re-engage with politics. The overwhelming number are actually | :12:59. | :13:04. | |
liberal. We only have about 20 seconds. I suggest to you it is too | :13:05. | :13:09. | |
late. Sign up with the one principle on which he stood is Europe. -- the | :13:10. | :13:15. | |
one principle on which he stood if Europe. That is why he has been | :13:16. | :13:23. | |
doing so badly. He cannot get out of the hole he is in. If you fight | :13:24. | :13:28. | |
three general elections to the left of Labour and on the third when you | :13:29. | :13:32. | |
are in coalition with the Tories, you have got a problem. I will be | :13:33. | :13:50. | |
back next week. Remember if it is Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics. | :13:51. | :14:18. | |
What's the hardest thing about being a foster parent? | :14:19. | :14:20. | |
You're constantly trying to build the elusive trust. | :14:21. | :14:23. | |
It's like a big old question mark in your heart. | :14:24. | :14:27. |