Browse content similar to 14/09/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Welcome to the Sunday Politics, coming to you live from Edinburgh. | :00:37. | :00:43. | |
Terrorists who use the name Islamic State have carried out | :00:44. | :00:45. | |
their threat to murder the British aid worker, David Haines. | :00:46. | :00:54. | |
They released a video late last night, showing a masked man | :00:55. | :00:56. | |
beheading Mr Haines, who was taken captive in Syria 18 months ago. | :00:57. | :01:03. | |
The jihadist group have already beheaded two American journalists. | :01:04. | :01:05. | |
Now it's threatening the life of a second British hostage. | :01:06. | :01:07. | |
David Cameron described the murder as an act of pure evil. | :01:08. | :01:10. | |
As we speak he's chairing a meeting of the Cabinet's COBRA | :01:11. | :01:12. | |
President Obama said the US stood shoulder to shoulder | :01:13. | :01:16. | |
Alex Salmond says Scotland "stands on the cusp of history" as | :01:17. | :01:24. | |
he predicts a historic and substantial victory in | :01:25. | :01:26. | |
As the latest polls show the two sides neck and neck, | :01:27. | :01:34. | |
I'll ask Yes campaigner and socialist Tommy Sheridan about his | :01:35. | :01:36. | |
And after last week's last-minute interventions from Gordon Brown | :01:37. | :01:44. | |
David Cameron, Ed Miliband and big business, I'll ask | :01:45. | :01:46. | |
pro-unionist George Galloway whether it's enough to win over waverers. | :01:47. | :01:51. | |
In the north`east and Cumbrha, what will the vote in Scotl`nd mean | :01:52. | :01:53. | |
And a threat to the future of nursery schools is raised | :01:54. | :01:58. | |
step closer back to Parliament. Is it a lame-duck administration? | :01:59. | :02:13. | |
Late last night, as most folk were preparing for bed, news broke that | :02:14. | :02:16. | |
Islamic State extremists had carried out their threat to murder the | :02:17. | :02:19. | |
The group released a video, similar to the ones in which two American | :02:20. | :02:23. | |
journalists were decapitated, showing a masked man apparently | :02:24. | :02:25. | |
beheading Mr Haines who was taken captive in Syria last year. | :02:26. | :02:29. | |
The terrorist, who has a southern British accent, | :02:30. | :02:31. | |
also threatened the life of a second hostage from the UK | :02:32. | :02:35. | |
Mr Haines is the third Westerner to be killed | :02:36. | :02:38. | |
His family have paid tribute to his humanitarian work; they say he | :02:39. | :02:43. | |
David Cameron described the murder as an act of pure evil, and said | :02:44. | :02:50. | |
his heart went out to Mr Haines family, who had shown extraordinary | :02:51. | :02:53. | |
Mr Cameron went on to say, "We will do everything in our power | :02:54. | :03:02. | |
to hunt down these murderers and ensure they face justice, | :03:03. | :03:05. | |
Mr Haines was born in England and brought up in Scotland. | :03:06. | :03:09. | |
Scottish First Minister Alex Salmond condemned the killing on the Marr | :03:10. | :03:13. | |
Well, it's an act of unspeakable barbarism that we have seen. | :03:14. | :03:28. | |
Obviously our condolences go to the family members of David Haynes who | :03:29. | :03:33. | |
have borne this with such fortitude in recent months -- David | :03:34. | :03:40. | |
Alex Salmond was also asked whether he supported military action | :03:41. | :03:42. | |
Haines there is no reason to believe whatsoever that China or Russia or | :03:43. | :03:55. | |
any country will see their will to deal with this barbarism. There is a | :03:56. | :03:59. | |
will for effective, international, legal action but it must come in | :04:00. | :04:02. | |
that fashion, and I would urge that to be a consideration to develop a | :04:03. | :04:09. | |
collective response to what is a threat to humanity. | :04:10. | :04:11. | |
Our security correspondent Gordon Corera joins me now | :04:12. | :04:12. | |
Gordon, as we speak, the Cobra emergency meeting is meeting yet | :04:13. | :04:25. | |
again. It meets a lot these days. I would suggest that the options | :04:26. | :04:30. | |
facing this committee and Mr Cameron are pretty limited. That's right. I | :04:31. | :04:34. | |
think they are extremely limited. They have been all along in these | :04:35. | :04:40. | |
hostage situations. We know, for instance, that British government | :04:41. | :04:43. | |
policy is not to pay ransom is to kidnappers. Other Europeans states | :04:44. | :04:47. | |
are thought to have done so to get hostages released, and also not to | :04:48. | :04:53. | |
make substantive policy concessions to the groups, so while there might | :04:54. | :04:58. | |
be contact, there won't be a lot of options left. We know the US in the | :04:59. | :05:01. | |
past has looked at rescue missions and in July on operation to free the | :05:02. | :05:10. | |
hostages, landing at the oil facility in Syria but finding no one | :05:11. | :05:13. | |
there. If you look at the options, they are not great. That is the | :05:14. | :05:17. | |
difficult situation which Cobra will have been discussing the last hour. | :05:18. | :05:26. | |
Does this make it more likely, because it might have the direction | :05:27. | :05:29. | |
the government was going in any way, that we join with the Americans in | :05:30. | :05:36. | |
perhaps the regional allies in air strikes against Islamic State, not | :05:37. | :05:41. | |
just in Iraq, but also in Syria We heard from President Obama outlining | :05:42. | :05:45. | |
his strategy against Islamic State last week when he talked about | :05:46. | :05:47. | |
building a coalition, about authorising air strikes. And | :05:48. | :05:53. | |
training troops. We are still waiting to hear what exact role the | :05:54. | :05:58. | |
UK will play in that. We know it will play a role because it has been | :05:59. | :06:09. | |
arming the fishmonger forces but the question is, will it actually | :06:10. | :06:13. | |
conduct military strikes in Iraq -- arming the passion are there. We | :06:14. | :06:18. | |
have not got a clear answer from government and that is something | :06:19. | :06:30. | |
where they are ours to discuss what was around the table. It's possible | :06:31. | :06:33. | |
we might learn some more today as a result of the Cobra meeting, but I | :06:34. | :06:36. | |
think the government will be wanting to not be seen to suddenly rushed to | :06:37. | :06:41. | |
a completely different policy as a result of one incident, however | :06:42. | :06:46. | |
terrible it is. Whether it hardens their reserve -- resolved to play | :06:47. | :06:48. | |
more active role in the coalition, that's possible, but we have to wait | :06:49. | :06:54. | |
see to get the detail. -- wait and see. What the whole country would | :06:55. | :07:01. | |
like to see would be British and American special forces going in and | :07:02. | :07:04. | |
getting these guys. I think that would unite the nation. But that is | :07:05. | :07:10. | |
very difficult, isn't it? It is As you saw with a rescue mission a few | :07:11. | :07:14. | |
months ago, the problem is getting actionable intelligence on the | :07:15. | :07:17. | |
ground at a particular moment. The theory is that the group of | :07:18. | :07:19. | |
kidnappers are moving the hostages may be even every or few days, so | :07:20. | :07:24. | |
you need intelligence and quickly and then you need to be able to get | :07:25. | :07:29. | |
the team onto the ground into that time frame. That is clearly a | :07:30. | :07:32. | |
possibility and something they will be looking at, but it certainly | :07:33. | :07:35. | |
challenging, particularly when you have a group like this operating | :07:36. | :07:40. | |
within its own state, effectively, and knowing that other people are | :07:41. | :07:43. | |
looking very hard for it and doing everything they can to hide. Gordon, | :07:44. | :07:49. | |
thank you very much. Clegg dropped everything and headed | :07:50. | :07:51. | |
to Scotland when a poll last Sunday gave the YES vote its first ever | :07:52. | :07:55. | |
lead in this prolonged referendum If their reaction looked | :07:56. | :08:02. | |
like panic, that's because it was. Until last weekend, | :08:03. | :08:04. | |
though the polls had been narrowing, the consensus was still that NO | :08:05. | :08:07. | |
would carry the day. The new consensus is that | :08:08. | :08:10. | |
it's too close to call. If we look back at the beginning of | :08:11. | :08:23. | |
the year, public opinion in Scotland was fairly settled. The no campaign | :08:24. | :08:27. | |
had a commanding lead across the opinion polls, excluding the | :08:28. | :08:30. | |
undecided voters. At one point, at the end of last year, an average of | :08:31. | :08:37. | |
63% backed the no campaign and only 37% supported a yes vote. As we move | :08:38. | :08:41. | |
into 2014 and up to this week, you can see a clear trend emerging as | :08:42. | :08:47. | |
the lead for the no campaign gets narrower and narrower and the | :08:48. | :08:50. | |
average of the most recent polls has the contest hanging in the balance. | :08:51. | :08:54. | |
There was a poll a week ago that put the Yes campaign in the lead for the | :08:55. | :08:59. | |
first time, 51% against 49%, but that lead was not reflected in the | :09:00. | :09:03. | |
other polls last week. For polls were published last night, one by | :09:04. | :09:13. | |
Salvation, for the macro-2 campaign -- Better Together campaign, and | :09:14. | :09:20. | |
there was another that gave a one percentage point different. ICM have | :09:21. | :09:24. | |
the yes campaign back in the lead at 54% and the no campaign at 46%, but | :09:25. | :09:30. | |
their sample size was 705 Scottish adults, smaller than usual. Another | :09:31. | :09:35. | |
suggests that the contest remains on a knife edge with 49.4% against | :09:36. | :09:46. | |
50.6%. When fed into the poll of polls the figures average out with | :09:47. | :09:52. | |
yes at 49% and polls -- no at 5 %. But some people think 18% are | :09:53. | :09:56. | |
undecided, and it is how they vote gets -- when they get to the polling | :09:57. | :09:59. | |
booths that could make all the difference. | :10:00. | :10:01. | |
campaigner and Respect Party MP George Galloway. | :10:02. | :10:05. | |
Welcome to the Sunday Politics. Big business, big oil, big banks, the | :10:06. | :10:12. | |
Tories, the Orange order, all against Scottish independence. You | :10:13. | :10:18. | |
sure you are on right side? Yes because the interests of working | :10:19. | :10:20. | |
people are in staying together. This is a troubled moment in a marriage, | :10:21. | :10:23. | |
a very long marriage, in which some good things and bad things have been | :10:24. | :10:29. | |
achieved together. And there is no doubt that the crockery is being | :10:30. | :10:33. | |
thrown around the house of the minute. But I believe that the | :10:34. | :10:37. | |
underlying interests of working people are on working on the | :10:38. | :10:40. | |
relationship rather than divorce. I have been divorced. It's a very | :10:41. | :10:44. | |
messy, acrimonious, bitter affair and it's particularly bad for the | :10:45. | :10:47. | |
children will stop that's why I am here. You talk about working people, | :10:48. | :10:53. | |
and particularly Scottish working people, they seem to have concluded | :10:54. | :10:56. | |
that the social democracy they want to create cannot now be done in a UK | :10:57. | :11:00. | |
context. Why should they not have a shot of going it alone? Because the | :11:01. | :11:07. | |
opposite will happen. Separation will cause a race to the bottom in | :11:08. | :11:11. | |
taxation. Alex Salmond has already announced he will cut the taxes on | :11:12. | :11:16. | |
companies, corporation tax, down to 3% hello whatever it is in the rest | :11:17. | :11:21. | |
of these islands. And business will only be attracted to come here, | :11:22. | :11:27. | |
country of 5 million people on if there is low regulation, low public | :11:28. | :11:30. | |
expenditure, low levels of taxation for them will stop you cannot have | :11:31. | :11:37. | |
Scandinavian social democracy on Texan levels of taxation. The | :11:38. | :11:40. | |
British government, as will be, the rest of the UK, they will race Alex | :11:41. | :11:45. | |
Salmond to the bottom. If he cuts it by three, they will cut it by four. | :11:46. | :11:52. | |
And so on. So whether some people cannot see it clearly yet or not, | :11:53. | :11:55. | |
the interests of the working people on both sides of the border would be | :11:56. | :12:00. | |
gravely damaged by separation. Let's take the interest of the working | :12:01. | :12:02. | |
people. As you know, as well as anyone, the coalition is in | :12:03. | :12:06. | |
fermenting both a series of cuts and reforms in welfare, and labour, | :12:07. | :12:11. | |
Westminster Labour, has only limited plans to reverse any of that. Surely | :12:12. | :12:15. | |
if you want to preserve the welfare state as it is, independence is the | :12:16. | :12:22. | |
way to do it. For the reasons I just explain, I don't believe that. But | :12:23. | :12:25. | |
Ed Miliband will be along in a minute. He will be along in May The | :12:26. | :12:33. | |
polls indicate... They say he is only four or 5%, that is the | :12:34. | :12:38. | |
average. Like the referendum, the next general election could be nip | :12:39. | :12:42. | |
and tuck. I don't, myself, think that the time of David Cameron as | :12:43. | :12:46. | |
Prime Minister is for much longer. I think there will be a Labour | :12:47. | :12:49. | |
government in the spring and the Labour government in London and a | :12:50. | :12:56. | |
stronger Scottish Parliament, super Devo Max, that is now on the table. | :12:57. | :12:59. | |
That is the best arrangement of people in the country. But the | :13:00. | :13:04. | |
people of Scotland surely cannot base a decision on independence on | :13:05. | :13:08. | |
your feeling that Labour might win the next general election. It is my | :13:09. | :13:13. | |
feeling. When the Tories were beaten on the bedroom tax last week in the | :13:14. | :13:17. | |
house, it was written all over the faces of the government side not | :13:18. | :13:21. | |
only that they were headed for defeat, but probably a massive fishy | :13:22. | :13:30. | |
-- Fisher. I think the race to the bottom that I have proper size will | :13:31. | :13:36. | |
mean that the welfare state will be a distant memory quite soon. The | :13:37. | :13:43. | |
cuts and the run on the Scottish economy here in Edinburgh, the | :13:44. | :13:49. | |
financial services industry, that will be gravely damage. The Ministry | :13:50. | :13:54. | |
of Defence jobs in Scotland decimated, probably ended, more or | :13:55. | :14:01. | |
less. It will be a time of cuts and austerity, maybe super austerity in | :14:02. | :14:05. | |
an independent Scotland. You mentioned defence. What about | :14:06. | :14:08. | |
nuclear weapons? The Tories and Labour will keep them. You are | :14:09. | :14:12. | |
against them. Surely the only way to be rid of them in Scotland is by | :14:13. | :14:17. | |
independence. But you are not rid of them by telling them down the river. | :14:18. | :14:22. | |
The danger would be the same -- telling them down the river. The | :14:23. | :14:27. | |
danger would be the same. Nuclear radiation does not respect Alex | :14:28. | :14:31. | |
Salmond's national boundaries. They would be committed to immediately | :14:32. | :14:37. | |
joining NATO, which is bristling with nuclear weapons and is what -- | :14:38. | :14:40. | |
involved in wars across the Atlantic. So anyone looking for a | :14:41. | :14:46. | |
peace option will have to elect a government in Britain as a whole | :14:47. | :14:50. | |
that will get rid of nuclear weapons and get out of military | :14:51. | :14:52. | |
entanglements. We are in one again now. I have been up the whole night, | :14:53. | :14:58. | |
till 5am, dealing with some of the consequences and implications of the | :14:59. | :15:02. | |
grave international matter that you opened the show with. David Haines | :15:03. | :15:09. | |
and the fate of the hostage still in their hands. There are many other | :15:10. | :15:14. | |
hostages as well. And there are many people dying who are neither British | :15:15. | :15:18. | |
nor American. I have, somehow, been drawn into this matter. And it | :15:19. | :15:23. | |
showed me, again, that the world is interdependent. It is absolutely | :15:24. | :15:32. | |
riven with division and hatred, and this is the worst possible time to | :15:33. | :15:37. | |
be opting out of the world to set up a small mini-state on the promises | :15:38. | :15:44. | |
of Alex Salmond of social democracy funded by Texan taxes. Let's, for | :15:45. | :15:49. | |
the sake of the next question, assume that everything you have told | :15:50. | :15:53. | |
us is true. Why is your side squandering a 20 point lead? | :15:54. | :16:05. | |
I will have a great deal to say about that, whatever the result | :16:06. | :16:12. | |
This is very much a Scottish Labour project, is that not a condemnation | :16:13. | :16:20. | |
of Scottish Labour? It is potentially on its deathbed. The | :16:21. | :16:27. | |
country breaking up, the principal responsibility will be on them. And | :16:28. | :16:43. | |
the pitiful, absolutely pitiful job that has been made of defending a | :16:44. | :16:48. | |
300-year-old relationship in this island by the Scottish Labour | :16:49. | :16:54. | |
leadership is really terrible for me to behold, even though I'm no longer | :16:55. | :16:59. | |
one of them. I don't know how they are going to get out of this | :17:00. | :17:04. | |
deathbed. Do you agree that if this referendum is lost by your side it | :17:05. | :17:10. | |
will be because traditional working-class Labour voters, | :17:11. | :17:13. | |
particularly in the west of Scotland, have abundant Labour and | :17:14. | :17:18. | |
decided to vote for independence? Without a doubt, the number of | :17:19. | :17:24. | |
Labour voters intending to vote yes is disturbingly high. Even just | :17:25. | :17:29. | |
months ago during the European Parliament elections, swathes of | :17:30. | :17:34. | |
people who didn't vote SNP will be voting yes on Thursday. That is a | :17:35. | :17:39. | |
grave squandering of a great legacy of Scottish Labour history, which | :17:40. | :17:46. | |
history will decree as unforgivable. If Labour is to get | :17:47. | :17:51. | |
out of its deathbed in Scotland it will have to become Labour again. | :17:52. | :17:57. | |
Real Labour again. I am ready to help them with that. My goodness, | :17:58. | :18:05. | |
they need help with it. I wonder if it isn't just a failure of Labour in | :18:06. | :18:11. | |
Scotland. People all over Britain are increasingly fed up with the | :18:12. | :18:15. | |
Westminster system, but it is only the Scots who currently have the | :18:16. | :18:20. | |
chance to break free from it, so why shouldn't they? That is exactly | :18:21. | :18:25. | |
right. They see a parliament of expenses cheats led by Lord snooty | :18:26. | :18:32. | |
and the Bullingdon club elite, carrying through austerity for many | :18:33. | :18:36. | |
but not for themselves and they are repulsed by it. They need change, | :18:37. | :18:42. | |
but you can go backwards and call it change but it will be worse than the | :18:43. | :18:48. | |
situation you have now. A lot of Scottish people don't buy that. It | :18:49. | :18:53. | |
is a big gamble. If I were poised to put my family's life savings on the | :18:54. | :18:59. | |
roulette table in Las Vegas, my wife would not be scaremongering if she | :19:00. | :19:03. | |
pointed out the potential consequences if I'd lost. She would | :19:04. | :19:08. | |
not be negative by telling me that is my children's money I am risking. | :19:09. | :19:13. | |
If I jumped off this roof it would change my point of view, but it | :19:14. | :19:16. | |
would be worse than the point of view I have now. There is another | :19:17. | :19:21. | |
issue here because the Scots are being asked to gamble on the | :19:22. | :19:26. | |
Westminster parties, which they are already suspicious of, of delivering | :19:27. | :19:33. | |
home rule. Alistair Darling could not even tell me if Ed Balls had | :19:34. | :19:38. | |
signed off on more income tax powers for Scotland, so that is a gamble | :19:39. | :19:43. | |
for the Scots. I feel the British state has had such a shake out of | :19:44. | :19:49. | |
all this that they would be beyond idiots, they would be insane now to | :19:50. | :19:55. | |
risk all of this flaring up again because whatever happens, if we win | :19:56. | :20:00. | |
on Thursday, it is going to be narrowly. It will be a severe | :20:01. | :20:06. | |
fissure in Scotland. A great deal of unpleasantness that we are already | :20:07. | :20:11. | |
aware of. That could turn but we're still. It would be dicing with | :20:12. | :20:18. | |
death, playing with fire, to let Scottish people down after Thursday | :20:19. | :20:23. | |
if we narrowly win. If you narrowly win, and if there are moves to this | :20:24. | :20:29. | |
home rule Mr Brown has been talking about, England hasn't spoken yet on | :20:30. | :20:34. | |
this. Whilst England would probably not want to stop -- stop Scotland | :20:35. | :20:41. | |
getting this, they would say, what about us? It could delay the whole | :20:42. | :20:49. | |
procedure. It is necessary, you are right. England should have home | :20:50. | :20:54. | |
rule, and I screamed at Scottish Labour MPs going into the vote to | :20:55. | :21:01. | |
introduce tuition fees in England. I told them this was a constitutional | :21:02. | :21:04. | |
monstrosity, as well as a crime against young people in England It | :21:05. | :21:11. | |
was risking everything. We are led by idiots. Our leaders are not James | :21:12. | :21:17. | |
Bonds, they are Austin powers. We need to change the leadership, not | :21:18. | :21:23. | |
rip up a 300-year-old marriage. Thank you. | :21:24. | :21:29. | |
It's been one of the longest and hardest fought political campaigns | :21:30. | :21:32. | |
in history, with Alex Salmond firing the starting gun on the referendum | :21:33. | :21:35. | |
Adam's been stitching together the key moments of the campaign | :21:36. | :21:46. | |
It is the other thing drawing people to the Scottish parliament, the new | :21:47. | :21:53. | |
great tapestry of Scotland. It is the story of battles won and lost, | :21:54. | :21:59. | |
Scottish moments, British moments, famous Scots, and not so famous | :22:00. | :22:03. | |
Scots. There is even a panel dedicated to the rise of the SNP. | :22:04. | :22:10. | |
Alex Salmond's majority in the elections in 2011 made the | :22:11. | :22:14. | |
referendum inevitable. It became reality when he and David Cameron | :22:15. | :22:19. | |
did a deal in Edinburgh one year later. The Scottish Government set | :22:20. | :22:24. | |
out its plans for independence in this book, just a wish list to some, | :22:25. | :22:30. | |
a sacred text to others. This White Paper is the most detailed | :22:31. | :22:37. | |
improvements that any people have ever been offered in the world as a | :22:38. | :22:41. | |
basis for becoming an independent country. The no campaign, called | :22:42. | :22:47. | |
Better Together, united the Tories, Labour and the Lib Dems under the | :22:48. | :22:52. | |
leadership of Alistair Darling. Then the Scottish people were bombarded | :22:53. | :22:57. | |
with two years of photo opportunities and a lot of | :22:58. | :23:00. | |
campaigning. For the no campaign, Jim Murphy went on tour but took a | :23:01. | :23:05. | |
break when he was egged and his events were often hijacked by yes | :23:06. | :23:10. | |
campaigners who were accused of being intimidating. In turn, they | :23:11. | :23:16. | |
accused the no campaign of using scare tactics. Things heated up when | :23:17. | :23:24. | |
the TV dinner -- during the TV debate. Fever pitch was reached one | :23:25. | :23:30. | |
week ago when one poll suggested the yes campaign was in the lead for the | :23:31. | :23:35. | |
first time. The three main Westminster leaders ditched PMQs to | :23:36. | :23:39. | |
head north. I think people can feel it is like a general election, that | :23:40. | :23:44. | |
you make a decision and five years later you can make another decision | :23:45. | :23:47. | |
if you are fed up with the Tories, give them a kick... This is totally | :23:48. | :23:56. | |
different. And Labour shelved not quite 100 MPs onto the train, Alex | :23:57. | :24:01. | |
Salmond took a helicopter instead. This is about the formation of the | :24:02. | :24:06. | |
NHS. A big theme of the yes campaign is that changes to the NHS in Linden | :24:07. | :24:15. | |
-- in England would lead to privatisation in Scotland. Alex | :24:16. | :24:21. | |
Salmond's plan to share the pound was trashed by big names. There were | :24:22. | :24:28. | |
other big question is, what would happen to military hardware like | :24:29. | :24:32. | |
Trident based on the Clyde? Would an independent Scotland be able to join | :24:33. | :24:39. | |
the EU? And how much oil was left underneath the North Sea? | :24:40. | :24:42. | |
This panel is about famous Scots, we have Annie Lennox, Stephen Hendry, | :24:43. | :24:50. | |
Sean Connery. I cannot see Gordon Brown. These are big changes we are | :24:51. | :24:54. | |
proposing to strengthen the Scottish parliament, but at the same time to | :24:55. | :25:00. | |
stay as part of the UK. A regular on the campaign, he was front and | :25:01. | :25:04. | |
centre when things got close, unveiling a timetable for more | :25:05. | :25:08. | |
devolution. People wondered whether Ed Miliband was able to reach the | :25:09. | :25:12. | |
parts of Scotland Labour leader should reach, and at Westminster | :25:13. | :25:17. | |
some Tories pondered whether David Cameron could stay as prime minister | :25:18. | :25:21. | |
if there was a yes vote. This tapestry is nonpartisan so it is a | :25:22. | :25:26. | |
good place to get away from it all but it is crystallising voters' | :25:27. | :25:32. | |
views. Look at what we have contributed to Great Britain, and I | :25:33. | :25:41. | |
am British and I hope to be staying British. This is what people from | :25:42. | :25:44. | |
Scotland have done, taken to the rest of the world in many cases and | :25:45. | :25:48. | |
I think I am going to vote yes. I am so inspired by it. It has certainly | :25:49. | :25:52. | |
inspired me to have a go at stitching. How long do you think it | :25:53. | :25:57. | |
would take to do the whole thing? I would say to put aside maybe 30 | :25:58. | :26:02. | |
hours of stitching. Maybe by the time I am done, we will know more | :26:03. | :26:06. | |
about how the fabric of the nation might be changing. | :26:07. | :26:10. | |
And I've been joined by yes campaigner and convenor | :26:11. | :26:13. | |
of Scotland's Solidarity socialist party, Tommy Sheridan. | :26:14. | :26:15. | |
An economy dependent on oil, the Queen as head of state, membership | :26:16. | :26:27. | |
of the world 's premier nuclear alliance of capitalist nations is | :26:28. | :26:33. | |
that the socialist Scotland you are fighting for? No, that is the SNP's | :26:34. | :26:43. | |
prospectus and they are entitled to put forward their vision, but it is | :26:44. | :26:47. | |
not mine or that of the majority of Scotland. We will find out in two | :26:48. | :26:54. | |
years. On Thursday we are not voting for a political party, we are voting | :26:55. | :26:58. | |
for our freedom as a country. That is why people are going to vote yes | :26:59. | :27:04. | |
on Thursday. A lot of people are voting for what you call freedom | :27:05. | :27:09. | |
because they think it will be more Scotland. You have already got free | :27:10. | :27:13. | |
prescriptions, no tuition fees, free care for the elderly. You might not | :27:14. | :27:18. | |
in future have that if public spending is overdependent on the | :27:19. | :27:23. | |
price of oil, over which you have no control. We don't have to worry | :27:24. | :27:27. | |
about one single resource, we already have 20% of the fishing | :27:28. | :27:35. | |
stock in Europe. We already have 25% of the wind, wave and solar power | :27:36. | :27:44. | |
generation. We, as an independent country, have huge resources, | :27:45. | :27:49. | |
natural resources but also people resources. We have five first-class | :27:50. | :27:54. | |
universities, food and beverages industry which is the envy of the | :27:55. | :27:58. | |
world. We have the ability to produce the resources on the | :27:59. | :28:02. | |
revenues that won't just maintain the health service and education but | :28:03. | :28:06. | |
it will develop health and education. I don't want to stand | :28:07. | :28:10. | |
still, I want to redistribute wealth. But all of the projections | :28:11. | :28:14. | |
of public spending for an independent Scotland show that to | :28:15. | :28:22. | |
keep spending at the current level you need a strong price of oil and | :28:23. | :28:27. | |
you are dependent on this commodity which goes up and down and sideways. | :28:28. | :28:33. | |
That is a gamble. I have got to laugh because I have been told the | :28:34. | :28:37. | |
most pessimistic is that in 40 years the oil is running out, panic | :28:38. | :28:45. | |
stations! If you were told by the BBC you could only guarantee | :28:46. | :28:48. | |
employment for the next 40 years you would be over the moon. I am talking | :28:49. | :28:54. | |
about in the next five. You need 50% of your revenues to come from oil to | :28:55. | :29:00. | |
continue spending and that is not a guarantee. Of course it is, the | :29:01. | :29:04. | |
minimum survival of the oil is 0 years. Please get your viewers to go | :29:05. | :29:15. | |
onto the Internet and look at the website called oilandgas.com. The | :29:16. | :29:27. | |
West Coast has 100 years of oil to be extracted. It hasn't been done | :29:28. | :29:32. | |
because in 1981 Michael Heseltine said we cannot extract the oil | :29:33. | :29:38. | |
because we have Trident going up and down there. Let's get rid of Trident | :29:39. | :29:47. | |
and extract the oil. You are a trot right, why have you failed to learn | :29:48. | :29:53. | |
his famous dictum, socialism in one country is impossible. Revolutions | :29:54. | :29:58. | |
and change are not just single event. What will happen here on | :29:59. | :30:02. | |
Thursday is a democratic revolution. The people are fed up of being | :30:03. | :30:08. | |
patronised and lied to by this mob in Westminster who have used and | :30:09. | :30:13. | |
abused us for far too long. The smaller people now have a voice | :30:14. | :30:18. | |
What about socialism in one country? Mr Trotsky warned you | :30:19. | :30:28. | |
against that. The no campaign represents the past. The yes | :30:29. | :30:32. | |
campaign represents the future. That is the truth of the matter. What we | :30:33. | :30:36. | |
are going to do in an independent Scotland is tackle inequality and a | :30:37. | :30:44. | |
scourge of low pay. If we vote no on Thursday, there will be more low pay | :30:45. | :30:50. | |
on Friday, more poverty and food banks on Friday. I'm not going to be | :30:51. | :30:53. | |
lectured by these big banks, you vote less -- yes and we will leave | :30:54. | :31:03. | |
the country! The food banks will be the ones closing. If you got your | :31:04. | :31:09. | |
way, for the type of Scotland you would like to see, state control of | :31:10. | :31:14. | |
business, nationalisation of the Manx, the roads to Carlisle will be | :31:15. | :31:17. | |
clogged with people Yes, hoping to come into Scotland, | :31:18. | :31:27. | |
because in their hearts, the Scottish people know that England | :31:28. | :31:34. | |
want to see the people having the bottle. The working class people in | :31:35. | :31:39. | |
Liverpool, Newcastle, outside of London, they are saying good on the | :31:40. | :31:42. | |
jocks that are taking on big business. When we are independent | :31:43. | :31:46. | |
and investing in social housing the people of England will say, we can | :31:47. | :31:50. | |
do that as well, and they will rediscover the radical tradition. In | :31:51. | :31:55. | |
wanting to build socialism in one country, it really means you are | :31:56. | :31:58. | |
fighting for the few, rather than the many. You are bailing out of the | :31:59. | :32:03. | |
socialist Battle for Britain. You think it will be easier to make it | :32:04. | :32:10. | |
work. Think globally, act locally and we will build socialism in | :32:11. | :32:14. | |
Scotland but I wanted across the world. I won my brothers and sisters | :32:15. | :32:18. | |
in England and Wales to be encouraged by what we do so they can | :32:19. | :32:22. | |
reject the Westminster consensus as well -- I want. We had the three | :32:23. | :32:26. | |
Stooges coming up to London, three millionaires united on one thing, | :32:27. | :32:31. | |
austerity. Doesn't matter whether Ed Miliband wins the next election he | :32:32. | :32:34. | |
said he would stick to the story spending cuts. Why vote for Ed | :32:35. | :32:39. | |
Miliband? You wouldn't trust him to run a bath, not a country. Let's see | :32:40. | :32:44. | |
if this is realistic, this great socialist vision. At the last | :32:45. | :32:48. | |
Scottish election, the Socialist party got 8000 votes. The | :32:49. | :32:51. | |
Conservatives got 30 times more votes. Where is the appetite in | :32:52. | :32:57. | |
Scotland for your Marxist ideology question we might not win it. But do | :32:58. | :33:02. | |
you know what, see in two years time. See when we have the Scottish | :33:03. | :33:17. | |
general election. You won't -- you are saying you might win and you | :33:18. | :33:20. | |
went to the Holyrood election and got 8000 Pope -- votes. The SNP won | :33:21. | :33:26. | |
a democratic election and then won the 2011 election and you know why | :33:27. | :33:30. | |
they won? Because they picked up the clothes that the Labour Party has | :33:31. | :33:34. | |
thrown away. They picked up the close of social democracy and | :33:35. | :33:39. | |
protecting the health service was -- service. There are people in the SNP | :33:40. | :33:45. | |
who believe in public ownership and people in the SNP who believe in the | :33:46. | :33:49. | |
NHS should be written into a constitution as never for sale | :33:50. | :33:53. | |
people in the the SNP that think the Royal mail should return to public | :33:54. | :33:57. | |
ownership. That is there in black and white. Do you agree with George | :33:58. | :34:00. | |
Galloway that this is potentially a crisis for Scottish Labour? Scottish | :34:01. | :34:06. | |
Labour is finished. They are absolutely finished. George is right | :34:07. | :34:09. | |
in that. Scottish Labour is finished. The irony of ironies is, | :34:10. | :34:14. | |
Labour in Scotland has more chance of recovery in an independent | :34:15. | :34:17. | |
Scotland that they have in a no vote. Labour in Scotland in an | :34:18. | :34:22. | |
independent country will have to rediscover the traditions of Keir | :34:23. | :34:28. | |
Hardie, the ideas of Jimmy Maxon, because right now, they are to the | :34:29. | :34:33. | |
right of the SNP as a political party. I understand the socialist | :34:34. | :34:38. | |
vision, but it is where the appetite is. And you look at the independence | :34:39. | :34:45. | |
people in Scotland. One of your colleagues, Brian Souter, a man who | :34:46. | :34:51. | |
fought against the appeal -- repeal of homosexual rights in Scotland. | :34:52. | :34:54. | |
Another of your allies would seem to be Rupert Murdoch, the man who | :34:55. | :35:02. | |
engineered your downfall. You say he engineered your downfall, but I m | :35:03. | :35:04. | |
still here and his newspaper has closed. Whether it Rupert Murdoch, | :35:05. | :35:11. | |
Brian Souter, or any other millionaire supporting independence, | :35:12. | :35:15. | |
I couldn't care less. This boat on Thursday is not about millionaires, | :35:16. | :35:19. | |
it is about the millions. -- this vote. We will not be abused any | :35:20. | :35:25. | |
young -- longer. Would you rather not have their support? I couldn't | :35:26. | :35:29. | |
care about the support. You know who is supporting the union. It is the | :35:30. | :35:34. | |
unions of the big businesses, the BNP, UKIP, they are the ones who | :35:35. | :35:41. | |
support it. You are giving me a stray that has wandered into the | :35:42. | :35:45. | |
campaign and are you seriously going to argue with me that the | :35:46. | :35:49. | |
establishment isn't united to try and save the union? That is what | :35:50. | :35:53. | |
they are trying to be. The BBC, you have been a disgrace in your | :35:54. | :35:57. | |
coverage of the campaign. Not you personally. You don't have editorial | :35:58. | :36:02. | |
control. The BBC coverage, generally, has been a disgrace and | :36:03. | :36:07. | |
the people. Oil and gas, go and look at that, why is that not feature. | :36:08. | :36:11. | |
Why is the idea of 100 years of oil not featured in the campaign. | :36:12. | :36:14. | |
Because the BBC does not want to see it. Are you getting in your excuses | :36:15. | :36:19. | |
if you lose? You better be kidding. Is this the face of somebody looking | :36:20. | :36:25. | |
to lose. We are going to win, 6 /40. Absolutely. There is a momentum that | :36:26. | :36:32. | |
you guys are not seeing on the working-class housing estates. | :36:33. | :36:35. | |
Working class people are fed up being taken for granted fed up with | :36:36. | :36:40. | |
the lives of people dragging us into tax cuts, bedroom tax for the poor. | :36:41. | :36:47. | |
They will have power on Thursday, and they will use it and vote for | :36:48. | :36:52. | |
freedom. Are you happy with the way the BBC has treated you today? So | :36:53. | :36:57. | |
far, yes. I have still not been offered a Coffey, but that might | :36:58. | :37:00. | |
happen. That is an obvious example of our bias. Tommy, we will speak to | :37:01. | :37:03. | |
you later with George Galloway. Hello and the warmest of welcomes | :37:04. | :37:22. | |
from the other side of the border. This weekend, | :37:23. | :37:24. | |
as Scotland decides its futtre, there is a call to devolve lore | :37:25. | :37:27. | |
power to regions of England. In particular, | :37:28. | :37:30. | |
is it time to give the north`east To mull that over, | :37:31. | :37:32. | |
the Liberal Democrat MP Sir Alan Beith, whose Berwick constituency | :37:33. | :37:48. | |
could soon be the northern lost tip And the Durham Labour MP, Roberta | :37:49. | :37:51. | |
Blackman`Woods is also here. Also coming up, nursery schools | :37:52. | :37:55. | |
under threat of closure. A north`east MP tells a deb`te | :37:56. | :37:57. | |
at Westminster they need more Sir Alan Beith, | :37:58. | :37:59. | |
did you ever think your constituency could be at the frontier re`lly | :38:00. | :38:04. | |
of a different country? Yes, because it has had | :38:05. | :38:06. | |
a turbulent past. Berwick's historical memory goes | :38:07. | :38:08. | |
back to the days when it was a different country, not with | :38:09. | :38:10. | |
the same Parliament or monarch. People are so aware of that history | :38:11. | :38:13. | |
but it is a serious issue which does worry people, the thought that there | :38:14. | :38:17. | |
might be different currencids on both sides of the border, which | :38:18. | :38:21. | |
people cross several times ` day. That there might have to be, at some | :38:22. | :38:26. | |
point, a policed border if Scotland The Nationalists behind the Yes | :38:27. | :38:29. | |
campaign clearly believe thdre are answers to those questions that you | :38:30. | :38:37. | |
don't necessarily believe are right. Roberta Blackman`Woods, it sounds | :38:38. | :38:41. | |
like a lot of north`east MPs will be Getting a bit desperate, | :38:42. | :38:44. | |
aren't they? I don't think it's desperathon, | :38:45. | :38:49. | |
it is important we all argud Having been in Scotland yesterday, | :38:50. | :38:52. | |
I am more certain than ever that we are better to stay united rdally | :38:53. | :39:00. | |
for all of our futures. I certainly haven't had any | :39:01. | :39:06. | |
answers on the economic questions. I think there are big, | :39:07. | :39:10. | |
big issues about defence We haven't got anyone here from the | :39:11. | :39:13. | |
Yes campaign We will discuss that more | :39:14. | :39:23. | |
in a moment because events in Scotland are inevitably focusing | :39:24. | :39:27. | |
minds on how we are governed The Deputy Prime Minister Nhck Clegg | :39:28. | :39:34. | |
has called for a wider debate about decentralising power `way | :39:35. | :39:39. | |
from Westminster. There are new demands | :39:40. | :39:40. | |
for the north`east to get some of the powers of Scotland whll be | :39:41. | :39:43. | |
offered in the event of a no vote. Carlisle is known | :39:44. | :39:46. | |
as the great border city. In the centre of town, Scotch Street | :39:47. | :39:52. | |
merges into English Street. Although the Scots once ruldd | :39:53. | :39:55. | |
this city, Carlisle has been The biggest question here is, is it | :39:56. | :39:58. | |
time for Westminster to share some The Westminster crew and thd Oxford | :39:59. | :40:06. | |
elite are leaving us behind. The biggest problem is that | :40:07. | :40:18. | |
everything is centralised to London and all that seems to matter is that | :40:19. | :40:21. | |
London and the South get evdrything He supports | :40:22. | :40:25. | |
the Scottish parliament getting more powers if people vote to st`y | :40:26. | :40:32. | |
in the UK but he says the s`me principle should apply to places | :40:33. | :40:35. | |
like the north`east and Cumbria It should be based around existing | :40:36. | :40:40. | |
structures, cities and counties The powers should look at the | :40:41. | :40:44. | |
tax`raising powers and spending Things that can be devolved down | :40:45. | :40:49. | |
but at the same time, there has to be the ability to raise loc`l taxes | :40:50. | :40:57. | |
to pay for that spending. Martin Fowler lives and works | :40:58. | :41:01. | |
in Carlisle but it is Scotthsh identity and history which form | :41:02. | :41:04. | |
the subject for his illustr`tions. He thinks the debate in Scotland | :41:05. | :41:07. | |
could prompt change in Engl`nd too. It could be very positive, | :41:08. | :41:14. | |
creating space for people in England to discuss the nature | :41:15. | :41:18. | |
of their democracy, their electoral It is first past the post btt is | :41:19. | :41:22. | |
that the best political sittation? Lanarkost Priory near Hadri`n's Wall | :41:23. | :41:27. | |
which was frequently attackdd during the Anglo`Scottish w`rs | :41:28. | :41:36. | |
but today there is more tea and And people here aren't keen to | :41:37. | :41:39. | |
reignite cross`border tensions by pushing for English devolution | :41:40. | :41:44. | |
should Scotland go it alone. You are going to split | :41:45. | :41:48. | |
the whole thing up into counties That is going to happen | :41:49. | :41:51. | |
and you'd probably get on with it and then come b`ck | :41:52. | :41:57. | |
together again in 50 years time I've lived in England for 50 years, | :41:58. | :42:01. | |
I regard myself as British, it says British on my passport | :42:02. | :42:05. | |
and that is what I am. And rising nationalism, whether it | :42:06. | :42:09. | |
is Scottish or English, is `n issue. I really don't want this | :42:10. | :42:13. | |
nationalistic fervour which has More powers for Scotland ard | :42:14. | :42:21. | |
inevitable, whether it is a yes or no vote but as the referdndum | :42:22. | :42:29. | |
campaign comes to an end, the wider debate on English devolution | :42:30. | :42:32. | |
may only just be starting. With me now is Jill Perry | :42:33. | :42:34. | |
from the Green party. The Greens do support indepdndence | :42:35. | :42:44. | |
for Scotland and also believe there is a need for more devolved | :42:45. | :42:46. | |
powers for the north`east. There seems to be frustration that | :42:47. | :42:50. | |
Westminster has too much power That doesn't mean people ard | :42:51. | :42:53. | |
hankering after regional me`nt, I think what people really want and | :42:54. | :42:57. | |
what politicians have absolttely failed to realise is that they want | :42:58. | :43:03. | |
a more sustainable and fair society. That is not what we are getting | :43:04. | :43:06. | |
from Westminster. That is what Scottish peopld want | :43:07. | :43:12. | |
and they are not getting it They have lots of powers already | :43:13. | :43:15. | |
that we don't have and their society They have much better social | :43:16. | :43:22. | |
policies, education policies, Because everything, as the lan said, | :43:23. | :43:27. | |
comes from London. But that's not an argument for | :43:28. | :43:37. | |
for breaking up the UK, it is an argument for a change | :43:38. | :43:42. | |
of policy is that you want to see. But what Scotland gets if it votes | :43:43. | :43:50. | |
yes is a chance to start ag`in and build from the bottom the sort | :43:51. | :43:53. | |
of society that they want to sleep. I am not arguing that the North of | :43:54. | :44:02. | |
England should become indepdndent but we need more powers to build the | :44:03. | :44:14. | |
sort of society that we want to see. We want to see | :44:15. | :44:18. | |
a more equitable society. Will Cumbrians be any better off | :44:19. | :44:19. | |
if there is a regional asselbly Cumbria is always | :44:20. | :44:22. | |
in a difficult position bec`use regionally we are in the north`west | :44:23. | :44:25. | |
and even from the BBC point of view we are in the north`east, | :44:26. | :44:28. | |
but the closer we get to people the Perhaps we should take the whole | :44:29. | :44:32. | |
of the North of England and make that a region, rather than dividing | :44:33. | :44:36. | |
it amongst current boundarids. The Lib Dems were strong advocates | :44:37. | :44:40. | |
of regional government a few years There was a setback for havhng | :44:41. | :44:43. | |
a parliament in this region because people didn't want it at thd time | :44:44. | :44:48. | |
but that does not stop us ddvolving more power to the region and | :44:49. | :44:54. | |
Nick Clegg is spearheading that It is a deal which would be much | :44:55. | :44:58. | |
welcomed by different partids in the north`east who are working together | :44:59. | :45:03. | |
to get powers from Westminster. That development is essenti`l | :45:04. | :45:10. | |
and later people will realise we need more democratic control | :45:11. | :45:13. | |
of the powers that we bring back to Nick Clegg has been setting out more | :45:14. | :45:17. | |
arguments and supporting more proposals to increase that `mount | :45:18. | :45:24. | |
of power we exercise. I could argue | :45:25. | :45:30. | |
about how big devolution powers are but how does somewhere | :45:31. | :45:33. | |
like Newcastle help Northumberland? The region | :45:34. | :45:36. | |
for this purpose includes a number of places and it is an important | :45:37. | :45:42. | |
point, there is a problem about it. Regional infrastructure, | :45:43. | :45:45. | |
if you are not careful, doesn't listen to rural areas and wd have | :45:46. | :45:48. | |
had that experience with thd, for example, with the Labour cotncil in | :45:49. | :45:53. | |
Northumberland putting charges in to get to school and college students | :45:54. | :46:00. | |
between 16 and 18 to school. Problems like that mean we need to | :46:01. | :46:05. | |
devise a system which gives rural areas a proper voice but at least | :46:06. | :46:08. | |
on some areas, the power is coming Boris can make decisions in London | :46:09. | :46:11. | |
we should be able to make hdre. Regional government was Labour's | :46:12. | :46:17. | |
baby in 2004 but now you sedm to Our policy is very clear, to devolve | :46:18. | :46:20. | |
power to local authorities, either singularly or in combination and we | :46:21. | :46:30. | |
have been discussing with the combined authorities, the one that | :46:31. | :46:35. | |
is already in place and the one that we think might be in place | :46:36. | :46:38. | |
in the south of the region to see I think regardless of the vote | :46:39. | :46:42. | |
next week, people want to sde Can combined authority really take | :46:43. | :46:49. | |
on the might of either an independent Scotland or | :46:50. | :46:57. | |
a powerful Scotland? If the parties come together | :46:58. | :47:05. | |
on key issues, such What is the difference betwden | :47:06. | :47:08. | |
that and the regional government We are not creating | :47:09. | :47:16. | |
a new political structure. We are bringing together local | :47:17. | :47:23. | |
authorities that are alreadx I think what people really said no | :47:24. | :47:26. | |
to was the new political structure. They did not say no to having more | :47:27. | :47:32. | |
powers devolved to the area and I think we know that people w`nt to | :47:33. | :47:35. | |
have a much greater say over what Everyone seems to have agredd | :47:36. | :47:39. | |
on that. One thing raised by John Stdvenson | :47:40. | :47:44. | |
was tax, local taxes. We have argued for | :47:45. | :47:49. | |
a long time that we ought to find a way of finding a fair incomd`based | :47:50. | :47:53. | |
tax in the place of council tax It is hard to do but if you devolve | :47:54. | :47:57. | |
power, you should also devolve That has been | :47:58. | :48:00. | |
the problem with Scotland. My constituents say, why have we | :48:01. | :48:14. | |
been giving them so much money, They should be raising monex | :48:15. | :48:16. | |
from taxes of Scottish people. There is a logic about having | :48:17. | :48:22. | |
the ability to raise taxes. Jill Perry, time for localised | :48:23. | :48:24. | |
taxation in your view? Absolutely and this governmdnt | :48:25. | :48:28. | |
and local governments, taxation in the form of money that the county | :48:29. | :48:33. | |
councils can raise has been limited. A lot | :48:34. | :48:36. | |
of people have said that wotld be a good thing because a stratospheric | :48:37. | :48:42. | |
rises in the past two counchl tax. If it is raised under | :48:43. | :48:53. | |
the council tax regime or some other regime, some people will object to | :48:54. | :48:59. | |
paying for it. Usually, it is the rich who don t | :49:00. | :49:01. | |
want to pay but ordinary people want They want a good education system, | :49:02. | :49:11. | |
a good national health systdm, a Those facilities society | :49:12. | :49:16. | |
should be providing for us. Roberta Blackman`Wood, you know it | :49:17. | :49:30. | |
took a long time to get the combined authorities together becausd | :49:31. | :49:33. | |
Newcastle and Sunderland were falling out with each other and | :49:34. | :49:38. | |
Teeside didn't want to be whth the rest of the north`east. That's not | :49:39. | :49:41. | |
very promising for Corporathon, is it? Lots of Labour councillors | :49:42. | :49:44. | |
falling out with each other. I think we really need to encourage | :49:45. | :49:58. | |
the local authorities that do want to work together to do that | :49:59. | :50:01. | |
and Labour also wants to sed much We have the combine authority so | :50:02. | :50:05. | |
let's work with what is there, let's try to be positive and what we want | :50:06. | :50:11. | |
to see is a much fairer funding system for local government because | :50:12. | :50:14. | |
we know that more money is going to It is the poorer areas that have | :50:15. | :50:20. | |
really suffered cuts and we want them to be able to have mord | :50:21. | :50:25. | |
of the central pot to work with We | :50:26. | :50:32. | |
could have a number of Labotr councillors deciding on an `rea like | :50:33. | :50:34. | |
yours which does not vote L`bour. That is the worry, | :50:35. | :50:37. | |
that it could shut out minorities. We need a system that recognises | :50:38. | :50:46. | |
minority interests and regional interests. Everyone agrees that | :50:47. | :50:53. | |
nursery education gives children the best start in life but this week, a | :50:54. | :50:59. | |
County Durham MP accused thd government of allowing a nulber to | :51:00. | :51:05. | |
be put at risk of being shutdown. She says a number of local `uthority | :51:06. | :51:09. | |
nurseries are at risk of closing because they are more expensive to | :51:10. | :51:14. | |
run and nursery attached to schools. Ministers say they cannot stbsidise | :51:15. | :51:17. | |
those at the expense of othdrs. It is a new term at this nursery. These | :51:18. | :51:25. | |
three and four`year`olds will only spend about 12 months here before | :51:26. | :51:29. | |
joining the local primary. What difference can that make? M`ssive. | :51:30. | :51:36. | |
You see how they nurture each other and we learn from them as they learn | :51:37. | :51:40. | |
from us. Achievements of st`te nursery schools are impresshve. 57% | :51:41. | :51:51. | |
are rated as outstanding was any `` as outstanding was only 17% of | :51:52. | :51:56. | |
primary schools have that. Nursery schools don't get any more funding | :51:57. | :52:02. | |
than early years primary cl`sses. Those in charge say that is | :52:03. | :52:06. | |
short`sighted. Within Sunderland there are nine nursery schools doing | :52:07. | :52:11. | |
very well and surviving but not being recognised as needing funding | :52:12. | :52:16. | |
to meet the needs of the chhldren in those nurseries. It is expensive but | :52:17. | :52:20. | |
that is an investment in chhldren's features really, isn't it? Hf we can | :52:21. | :52:24. | |
get it right from the very beginning, then there doesn't need | :52:25. | :52:27. | |
to be as much money spent c`tching up as they get older. But those | :52:28. | :52:33. | |
funding problems have closed areas. `` nursery schools. This wedk, one | :52:34. | :52:41. | |
north`east MP called a Commons debate to ask for extra mondy to | :52:42. | :52:46. | |
stop closures. We look at where they are delivering in affluent `reas and | :52:47. | :52:53. | |
disadvantaged areas and thex are providing equally good outcomes and | :52:54. | :52:56. | |
that is really important for the north`east where we have a high | :52:57. | :53:01. | |
proportion, or a higher proportion of nursery schools and the rest of | :53:02. | :53:05. | |
the country, and disadvantaged children. We have these proven | :53:06. | :53:09. | |
centres of excellence and wd are allowing them to wither on the vine. | :53:10. | :53:16. | |
Whilst the government recognises the quality of nurseries such as this | :53:17. | :53:20. | |
they are not happy to provide extra funding. 49 local authoritids don't | :53:21. | :53:31. | |
have any maintained nursery schools and 43 only have one or two | :53:32. | :53:39. | |
maintained nursery schools. It is not fair that we treat maintained | :53:40. | :53:43. | |
nursery schools differently. New research this week showed that | :53:44. | :53:47. | |
children who get good schooling in their early years combined better | :53:48. | :54:02. | |
results and salaries. I think 9 % of these nursery schools are | :54:03. | :54:08. | |
outstanding. Yet we can't fhnd any money to back them? There is no | :54:09. | :54:16. | |
disagreement that early years education is really important. But | :54:17. | :54:20. | |
in Northumberland, all the state nursery provision is providdd by the | :54:21. | :54:23. | |
local authority through the schools because you are sending children to | :54:24. | :54:26. | |
a school which they will subsequently go to. It helps to | :54:27. | :54:32. | |
integrate them into the school. But the evidence suggests is th`t those | :54:33. | :54:37. | |
nursery schools are outperforming primary schools largely. Thd | :54:38. | :54:44. | |
evidence is that these work. And we haven't got any. If you put a lot of | :54:45. | :54:49. | |
money into a few places, yot can achieve good results but we are | :54:50. | :54:53. | |
trying to ensure that across the country there is adequate ntrsery | :54:54. | :54:58. | |
provision and my experience is that doing it through the local schools | :54:59. | :55:00. | |
is an extremely good way of doing it. Pat Glass admitted this in her | :55:01. | :55:10. | |
debate. Labour's record on this was as patchy as the coalitions. Do you | :55:11. | :55:15. | |
need to change your policy `nd provide extra support for this? Pat | :55:16. | :55:21. | |
has raised a very interesting issue about nursery schools and how they | :55:22. | :55:27. | |
are the centres of excellence and the debate highlighted that. We need | :55:28. | :55:32. | |
to think about how we can spread the expertise that is being devdloped in | :55:33. | :55:35. | |
those schools into other types of provision. I think the government | :55:36. | :55:40. | |
might need to think about how to fund these nursery schools hn a | :55:41. | :55:44. | |
different way so all the local authorities can benefit frol them. | :55:45. | :55:50. | |
To be fair, they will get the people `` the pupil premium. You c`nnot | :55:51. | :55:54. | |
accuse the government of not backing nursery education. I wasn't doing | :55:55. | :56:00. | |
that but I think they are f`lling down on the funding of sure start | :56:01. | :56:02. | |
because of the cuts to local government, meaning that thd | :56:03. | :56:10. | |
excellent five sure start cdntres in my constituency, the local `uthority | :56:11. | :56:12. | |
doesn't know how they will be able to continue funding them. Wd are | :56:13. | :56:16. | |
looking at different models the continuing that education ldvel | :56:17. | :56:23. | |
There are issues of funding what is a good policy. With just fotr days | :56:24. | :56:28. | |
to go, it is no surprise th`t Scotland is on the mind of lost | :56:29. | :56:33. | |
politicians but our part of the world did get a looking at | :56:34. | :56:42. | |
Westminster. There is no big Mac and frids on the | :56:43. | :56:46. | |
menu if Newcastle Council gdt their way. They have rejected plans from | :56:47. | :56:55. | |
McDonald's to open near a school. I asked the big food giant not to | :56:56. | :57:00. | |
appeal. Maple death `` many people did not get help from Redcar Council | :57:01. | :57:04. | |
when they needed it, the vidw of the government when they found they | :57:05. | :57:10. | |
understand by ?1 million from their social fund. Their local MP is | :57:11. | :57:16. | |
concerned. I think the council has bold plans to deal with deprivation | :57:17. | :57:23. | |
in our area but my sense is that far less direct help is reaching those | :57:24. | :57:28. | |
who are most in need. And fhnally the roads minister marked the start | :57:29. | :57:36. | |
of work to improve a stretch of the A1 but according to figures we have | :57:37. | :57:41. | |
seen, it will cost nearly ?800 million to make the road jewel | :57:42. | :57:49. | |
carriageway for the whole of the Northumberland stretch. You will | :57:50. | :57:54. | |
never make that money back economically, will you? We `re never | :57:55. | :58:00. | |
going to do it in one go but I am hoping we will able to do it in | :58:01. | :58:05. | |
sections. Nearly half of thd A1 has been turned into a dual carriageway | :58:06. | :58:10. | |
in the time I have been an LP and no one says it was a waste of loney. | :58:11. | :58:13. | |
They say, when will you get the Western? It is vitally important for | :58:14. | :58:19. | |
work, for Communications, for moving goods. Having bad sections of it | :58:20. | :58:23. | |
sends the wrong message to business for how ready we are to havd new | :58:24. | :58:28. | |
jobs in the area. How confident are you of a timetable to get this | :58:29. | :58:32. | |
completed? I am very confiddnt we will get progress but getting a | :58:33. | :58:37. | |
commitment to the whole thing, with the government close to a gdneral | :58:38. | :58:45. | |
election, that could be difficult. I would very much welcome a thmetable | :58:46. | :58:50. | |
but what I want to see is a real commitment, contracts being met to | :58:51. | :58:55. | |
get some more of the jewel carriageway `` the jewel carriageway | :58:56. | :59:05. | |
that we need. Surely that is better than we had under 13 years of | :59:06. | :59:11. | |
Labour? I think labour invested a lot into the region but we `ccept as | :59:12. | :59:18. | |
a party that we need a much bigger investment in the region and we are | :59:19. | :59:24. | |
getting. Investment in roads, rail, to rejuvenate some of our ptblic | :59:25. | :59:32. | |
areas. The government has to think about how to do that. That does mean | :59:33. | :59:39. | |
that Labour are going to sell the idea to the south that | :59:40. | :59:41. | |
infrastructure does need to move north? Yes, and we need to speak up | :59:42. | :59:49. | |
about that. Thank you all vdry much. There will be more on the A0 on BBC | :59:50. | :59:53. | |
Newcastle tomorrow morning hf you want to tune in. It promises to be a | :59:54. | :00:00. | |
close run thing on Thursday and there will be a special programme | :00:01. | :00:04. | |
starting at 10:35pm if you want to follow the results. I will be in | :00:05. | :00:09. | |
Berwick with a panel of guests including Sal and beat to gdt their | :00:10. | :00:12. | |
thoughts `` London was 150 years ago, otherwise | :00:13. | :00:18. | |
we would have a dirty River Thames. Andrew, back to you. | :00:19. | :00:24. | |
Can the No campaign still pull it off? | :00:25. | :00:28. | |
And even if they do is the whole of the UK now on the brink | :00:29. | :00:32. | |
I'm joined now by John McTernan former adviser to Gordon Brown | :00:33. | :00:49. | |
and Tony Blair, Alex Bell, former Head of Policy for the SNP | :00:50. | :00:52. | |
and Lindsay McIntosh, the Times Scottish Political Editor | :00:53. | :00:55. | |
And I'm delighted that Tommy and George have stayed too. | :00:56. | :01:00. | |
No fighting has broken out either. Where | :01:01. | :01:09. | |
No fighting has broken out either. have three full days to go | :01:10. | :01:09. | |
No fighting has broken out either. polling day. What is the state of | :01:10. | :01:12. | |
play? I think the poll of polls is accurate. 49 and 51%. What is vital | :01:13. | :01:20. | |
is to bring the undecided voters in, and they properly have about | :01:21. | :01:25. | |
500,000. I think there are a lot of undecided people. I think they know | :01:26. | :01:28. | |
which way they are leaning, but they haven't jumped. The hope of the no | :01:29. | :01:33. | |
campaign is that they will go for the status quo on Thursday. How do | :01:34. | :01:39. | |
you assess the state of the campaign now? The crucial thing is the big | :01:40. | :01:43. | |
swing. The swing has come towards yes, so will the momentum carry it | :01:44. | :01:52. | |
over the line? I will think it does, because it is an antiestablishment | :01:53. | :01:56. | |
swell, and its people responding to standard Western as the politicians | :01:57. | :02:01. | |
and saying that they want a new way -- Westminster politicians. I think | :02:02. | :02:06. | |
that yes will sneak it. A referendum can be more important than a general | :02:07. | :02:10. | |
election, and the Yes campaign have had the momentum. This was the week | :02:11. | :02:15. | |
the momentum stopped. We started the week looking as though yes were | :02:16. | :02:19. | |
going into the lead and then it stopped and most of the recent polls | :02:20. | :02:22. | |
show a distinct lead for the no campaign. A distinct lead? It is one | :02:23. | :02:28. | |
or two points. It is six in one poll, two in another, aiding | :02:29. | :02:34. | |
another. The poll of polls is a good way of measuring, and is it | :02:35. | :02:37. | |
statistically Nick -- nip and tuck? It is the week the momentum stopped. | :02:38. | :02:41. | |
About a fifth of the electorate That will be a quarter of the | :02:42. | :02:45. | |
turnout have voted already, by postal vote, and they are running | :02:46. | :02:49. | |
very strongly towards no, so there is a whole bank of votes there. The | :02:50. | :02:55. | |
postal votes are skewed to the over 60s, and that is the demographic | :02:56. | :02:58. | |
that the Yes campaign have had the biggest trouble with. Absolutely, | :02:59. | :03:04. | |
the Yes campaign faced a challenge amongst the 16 and 18-year-olds and | :03:05. | :03:08. | |
always based challenge with the older voters. Trust me, I was the | :03:09. | :03:14. | |
decision the day the civil servants made it possible for the 16 to | :03:15. | :03:18. | |
18-year-olds to vote, and we said there was a victory for the no | :03:19. | :03:21. | |
campaign in that alone. The young tend to be conservative by nature. I | :03:22. | :03:28. | |
think again that to say that the momentum has stopped when you had a | :03:29. | :03:36. | |
20 point lead, this is a referendum whether people will speak and they | :03:37. | :03:40. | |
will be heard. Except for the one poll which needs a huge health | :03:41. | :03:45. | |
warning because of the size of the sample, the momentum is | :03:46. | :03:48. | |
unquestionably all the way through August is going in the direction of | :03:49. | :03:53. | |
yes. It hasn't quite continue to get to the 55/45 four yes that Alex | :03:54. | :03:59. | |
Salmond thinks will be the result. I would agree with John. This was the | :04:00. | :04:03. | |
momentum stalled. We saw the three leaders coming up, and that kept | :04:04. | :04:10. | |
Alex Salmond off the front pages on the television and we had a raft of | :04:11. | :04:13. | |
economic warnings which, although they were dismissed as | :04:14. | :04:15. | |
scaremongering, they will have had a lot of traction with voters. What | :04:16. | :04:20. | |
does the no campaign have to do in the final three days? It has to | :04:21. | :04:26. | |
focus on the undecided, relentlessly. It has to do stick to | :04:27. | :04:31. | |
the question of risk and keep pushing back on Alex Salmond to say | :04:32. | :04:33. | |
it doesn't matter if the banks leave, it will all be all right on | :04:34. | :04:38. | |
the night. The huge question amongst the undecided voters is about the | :04:39. | :04:41. | |
economy. It is about jobs and currency, about business. That risk | :04:42. | :04:47. | |
is what will crystallise in the ballot box on Thursday and that has | :04:48. | :04:50. | |
to be the focus. What does the Yes campaign have to do? It has to drive | :04:51. | :04:55. | |
home that the swing to the Yes campaign is motivated by people who | :04:56. | :04:59. | |
want a different politics. They have decided amongst themselves that they | :05:00. | :05:02. | |
want to change Scotland. The unfortunate thing is, even though | :05:03. | :05:07. | |
the no campaign has had the chance to put up after proposals, they have | :05:08. | :05:11. | |
failed. The Scottish people want their powers were a purpose and they | :05:12. | :05:14. | |
say that only the Yes campaign can deliver that. There will be two days | :05:15. | :05:18. | |
of relentless campaigning from today, Monday and Tuesday, then the | :05:19. | :05:21. | |
media, the newspapers, including your own, will come out with the | :05:22. | :05:28. | |
final poll, the ones that will be the closest to the day that the | :05:29. | :05:32. | |
Scots actually go and vote. I think we will see more polling this week, | :05:33. | :05:36. | |
but what is interesting is the extent to which the pollsters are | :05:37. | :05:39. | |
picking up what is going on in the street. We know we have a huge | :05:40. | :05:42. | |
number of voters who have never voted before and are not engage with | :05:43. | :05:48. | |
politics, so what will they do? The third candidate in the election if | :05:49. | :05:51. | |
I can would in this way, are the polls. They might have a lot of | :05:52. | :05:54. | |
questions to answer on Friday morning. We were talking earlier | :05:55. | :05:59. | |
with George and Tommy about the Labour Party's consequences in all | :06:00. | :06:03. | |
of this. Gordon Brown, of course, has had a bit of a second coming as | :06:04. | :06:07. | |
a result of this referendum. I just want to play a clip of Gordon Brown | :06:08. | :06:10. | |
during the campaign and get a reaction. And I say this to Alex | :06:11. | :06:21. | |
Salmond himself. Up until today I am outside front line politics. If he | :06:22. | :06:24. | |
continues to peddle this deception, that the Scottish Parliament under | :06:25. | :06:29. | |
his leadership, and he cannot do anything to improve the health | :06:30. | :06:32. | |
service until he has a separate state, then I will want to join Joe | :06:33. | :06:39. | |
Hanlon want in and securing the return of a Labour government as | :06:40. | :06:43. | |
quickly as possible -- Johann Lamont. That was seen by some people | :06:44. | :06:50. | |
as Gordon Brown implying he might stand for the Scottish Parliament. | :06:51. | :06:53. | |
Whether it is yes or no, is Gordon Brown the saviour of Scottish | :06:54. | :07:00. | |
Labour? I did a double black the other night -- double act with him | :07:01. | :07:03. | |
the other night, and I must say he was a big beast all over again. He | :07:04. | :07:07. | |
crossed the stage Meli dealt with the audience brilliantly. He has a | :07:08. | :07:13. | |
certain presence, Gordon Brown, but he would really have to reinvent | :07:14. | :07:17. | |
himself quite considerably. He is capable of doing, but the man who | :07:18. | :07:23. | |
was the biographer of Jimmy Maxton, who pulled together the original red | :07:24. | :07:27. | |
paper on Scotland, he would have to be that Gordon Brown rather than the | :07:28. | :07:32. | |
Gordon Brown of some more melancholy events later. Tommy, you have both | :07:33. | :07:35. | |
been critical of the state of the Scottish Labour Party. Rather than | :07:36. | :07:39. | |
looking to Gordon Brown, which might be an interim solution, doesn't | :07:40. | :07:42. | |
Scottish Labour have to find a new generation of people to reignite it? | :07:43. | :07:47. | |
What George and I are agreed on and you have to remember this question | :07:48. | :07:52. | |
of independence see us disagreeing passionately, and in most other | :07:53. | :07:54. | |
things we find ourselves in agreement, one thing is clear, | :07:55. | :07:59. | |
Scottish Labour is finished. They have lost the heart and soul of | :08:00. | :08:05. | |
Scotland. The fact that we are discussing with four days to go an | :08:06. | :08:08. | |
independence referendum that is neck and neck, Labour have failed | :08:09. | :08:13. | |
miserably, absolutely miserably because they have given up | :08:14. | :08:16. | |
everything they stood for. The SNP has picked it up. They have just | :08:17. | :08:21. | |
taken on the bank -- mantle of a left of centre party and are picking | :08:22. | :08:25. | |
up support. Gordon and the rest in my opinion, they represent the past. | :08:26. | :08:29. | |
The yes vote on the Yes campaign represents the future. What do you | :08:30. | :08:32. | |
say to that? There is nothing socialist about an SNP that wants to | :08:33. | :08:38. | |
cut business tax by 3% in the pan. There is nothing socialist about an | :08:39. | :08:42. | |
SNP destroying further education so they can give middle-class people | :08:43. | :08:47. | |
free education. The Labour Party is alive and kicking. You can see if it | :08:48. | :08:51. | |
is Gordon Brown, or Jim Murphy with the 100 days tour. But I hesitate to | :08:52. | :08:58. | |
use this word, but they are kind of privatised from the Scottish Labour | :08:59. | :09:01. | |
Party. They have rode their own fallow. Jim Murphy was on the stump | :09:02. | :09:06. | |
because official Scottish Labour did not want him leading their campaign. | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
Gordon Brown was, I think, kept off the stage until it became so | :09:12. | :09:15. | |
critical that he had to be brought back. I agree with John, the SNP | :09:16. | :09:21. | |
talks left but acts right. That is before they get state powers. That | :09:22. | :09:26. | |
is what is exciting about the referendum, it's not about the SNP, | :09:27. | :09:30. | |
it's about the people deciding. What we have heard so far in the | :09:31. | :09:33. | |
referendum campaign is that there is a desperate yearning in the | :09:34. | :09:37. | |
electorate for real politics, purposeful politics and for the | :09:38. | :09:41. | |
people to be represented. It is probably to the eternal shame of | :09:42. | :09:44. | |
labour that they gave up that role and other people are now taking it | :09:45. | :09:48. | |
upon themselves. How would you assess the state of the Labour | :09:49. | :09:52. | |
Party? The problem is that it was demolished by the SNP in 2011 and | :09:53. | :09:56. | |
what they should have done since then and in other circumstances is | :09:57. | :09:59. | |
take a real look within themselves and brought forward new talent and | :10:00. | :10:03. | |
policies and watch out what they stood for. They've been unable to do | :10:04. | :10:06. | |
that because they are locked in a constitutional row. It is the plan | :10:07. | :10:13. | |
of the Nationalists to fight the first Scottish general election as | :10:14. | :10:16. | |
an independent nation as a nationalist party with its own | :10:17. | :10:19. | |
programme. You don't all go your own way. Why don't you do that? You have | :10:20. | :10:24. | |
more on your main reason to be, so why not go, left, right and centre | :10:25. | :10:30. | |
question you are presuming you don't go the one-way. I do not see the | :10:31. | :10:34. | |
function of the SNP after the yes vote. I think it is clear that there | :10:35. | :10:38. | |
is an SNP under Nicola Sturgeon an SNP which attracts votes from the | :10:39. | :10:42. | |
left and that is the one for me Whether that is called the SNP or | :10:43. | :10:45. | |
something else, I don't know. I think the assumption that we are | :10:46. | :10:50. | |
going into a mirror of old politics in a new world is just fundamentally | :10:51. | :10:58. | |
flawed. That is interesting. Let's just bring in the English | :10:59. | :11:01. | |
dimensional. In many ways, England has not spoken in this referendum | :11:02. | :11:06. | |
campaign. Whether it is yes or no, it will, and to give you a flavour | :11:07. | :11:10. | |
of what some in England might be thinking was saying, here is a clip | :11:11. | :11:14. | |
from John Redwood. We are fed up with this lopsided devolution, this | :11:15. | :11:19. | |
unfair devolution. Scotland gets first-class Devolution, Wales gets | :11:20. | :11:21. | |
second-class devolution and England gets nothing. If Wales wants the | :11:22. | :11:25. | |
same as us, they should have it and then there would be commonality so | :11:26. | :11:30. | |
we could discuss and decide in our own countries, in our own assemblies | :11:31. | :11:33. | |
in Parliament, all those things that are devolved. George, it was clear | :11:34. | :11:41. | |
that if Scotland voted yes for independence it has huge | :11:42. | :11:43. | |
implications for England than the UK, but it's also clear particularly | :11:44. | :11:48. | |
after Gordon Brown's intervention, even if it is no, it has huge | :11:49. | :11:52. | |
applications. You are, I suggest, agreeing with John Redwood that | :11:53. | :11:56. | |
there should be an English boys It would be a step too far for me to | :11:57. | :12:02. | |
agree with him -- English voice I appreciate I might have gone out on | :12:03. | :12:06. | |
a limb. He is the voice of Mars the Balkan from Mars. My own | :12:07. | :12:12. | |
constituents in Bradford are asking, what about us? All these things | :12:13. | :12:16. | |
being done, all the extra mile is being travel to Scotland, what about | :12:17. | :12:20. | |
us? Labour would be well advised to adjust quickly on this so that the | :12:21. | :12:26. | |
John Redwood types do not steal the show. England has yes to use -- yet | :12:27. | :12:32. | |
to speak. It's interesting when you hear a Labour backbencher in | :12:33. | :12:36. | |
Scotland talk about a command paper. He is not in government. Gordon | :12:37. | :12:42. | |
Brown is going round Scotland promising things and he has | :12:43. | :12:45. | |
absolutely no chance of delivering them. The MPs in England will say, | :12:46. | :12:50. | |
hey, what are you talking about We have never been discussed with that? | :12:51. | :12:53. | |
We have not agreed with that. The only way people in Scotland will get | :12:54. | :12:59. | |
the powers they deserve is by voting yes. Crystal ball time, Tommy, you | :13:00. | :13:04. | |
think it is 60/40. I will stick with it, because we have an unprecedented | :13:05. | :13:09. | |
election. 97% of Scotland is registered to vote. The working | :13:10. | :13:12. | |
class will vote in numbers never voted before. George? 55/45 for our | :13:13. | :13:21. | |
side. And if there is a rogue poll, the tek Levesley polled -- | :13:22. | :13:24. | |
technically flawed poll, which should not be published because it | :13:25. | :13:29. | |
is so flawed, then we would be stretching towards what I am | :13:30. | :13:31. | |
predicting already. I think in the last few days we will reach that. | :13:32. | :13:38. | |
Come on. If the no campaign can get the silent majority out, they will | :13:39. | :13:41. | |
edge it. You think they will win, but how much? They cannot give up in | :13:42. | :13:47. | |
a second, a moment or a mile. It is that close. It will be won by the | :13:48. | :13:53. | |
passionate view. I will go for a narrow yes victory. I'm the George, | :13:54. | :14:04. | |
53 or 54% in favour of Joe -- no. -- I am with George. I will leave you | :14:05. | :14:07. | |
to argue about that later. Thank you for being with us on the special | :14:08. | :14:09. | |
Sunday politics from Edinburgh. That's all from us today | :14:10. | :14:11. | |
in Scotland. Don't forget the Daily Politics will | :14:12. | :14:13. | |
have continuing coverage of the referendum campaign all this | :14:14. | :14:15. | |
week on BBC2 at midday. On Thursday night Huw Edwards will | :14:16. | :14:18. | |
be in Glasgow and I will be in London to bring you live coverage | :14:19. | :14:21. | |
of the results on BBC1 from 10. 0 pm on a historic night for Scotland | :14:22. | :14:25. | |
and the rest of the United Kingdom. And I'll be back next Sunday | :14:26. | :14:28. | |
when we're live from the Labour Unless, of course, the referendum | :14:29. | :14:31. | |
result is so tumultuous even the Remember if it's Sunday, | :14:32. | :14:39. | |
it's the Sunday Politics. | :14:40. | :14:44. |