22/01/2017 Sunday Politics North East and Cumbria


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22/01/2017

Andrew Neil, Richard Moss and shadow home secretary Diane Abbott provide reaction to Theresa May's Brexit speech and look at the inauguration of US president Donald Trump.


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It's Sunday morning, and this is the Sunday Politics.

:00:39.:00:41.

Theresa May will be the first foreign leader to visit US

:00:42.:00:44.

President Donald Trump this week - she's promised to hold "very

:00:45.:00:47.

frank" conversations with the new and controversial

:00:48.:00:50.

Speaking of the 45th President of America,

:00:51.:00:57.

we'll be looking at what the Trump presidency could hold

:00:58.:01:00.

in store for Britain and the rest of the world.

:01:01.:01:07.

And with the Supreme Court expected to say that Parliament should

:01:08.:01:10.

have a vote before the Brexit process begins, we'll ask

:01:11.:01:13.

Here, will the north-east and what Labour will do next.

:01:14.:01:24.

Here, will the north-east and Cumbria boys be heard during Brexit

:01:25.:01:26.

negotiations. It's curtains And to talk about all of that

:01:27.:01:37.

and more, I'm joined by three journalists who, in an era

:01:38.:01:40.

of so-called fake news, can be relied upon for their accuracy,

:01:41.:01:42.

their impartiality - and their willingness

:01:43.:01:46.

to come to the studio It's Steve Richards,

:01:47.:01:49.

Julia Hartley-Brewer and Tom Newton Dunn,

:01:50.:01:55.

and during the programme they'll be tweeting as often as the 45th

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President of the USA in the middle So - the Prime Minister has been

:02:03.:02:05.

appearing on the BBC this morning. She was mostly talking

:02:06.:02:16.

about Donald Trump and Brexit, but she was also asked about a story

:02:17.:02:18.

on the front of this It's reported that an unarmed

:02:19.:02:21.

Trident missile test fired from the submarine HMS Vengeance

:02:22.:02:25.

near the Florida coast in June The paper says the incident took

:02:26.:02:31.

place weeks before a crucial Commons Well, let's have listen

:02:32.:02:39.

to Theresa May talking The issue that we were talking

:02:40.:02:43.

about in the House of Commons It was about whether or not

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we should renew Trident, whether we should look to the future

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and have a replacement Trident. That's what we were talking

:02:54.:02:56.

about in the House of Commons. That's what the House

:02:57.:02:59.

of Commons voted for. He doesn't want to defend our

:03:00.:03:01.

country with an independent There are tests that take place

:03:02.:03:06.

all the time, regularly, What we were talking about in that

:03:07.:03:14.

debate that took place... I'm not going to get

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an answer to this. Tom, it was clear this was going to

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come up this morning. It is on the front page of the Sunday Times. It

:03:35.:03:38.

would seem to me the Prime Minister wasn't properly briefed on how to

:03:39.:03:44.

reply. I think she probably was, but the Prime Minister we now have

:03:45.:03:48.

doesn't necessarily answer all questions in the straightest way.

:03:49.:03:54.

She didn't answer that one and all. Unlike previous ones? She made it

:03:55.:04:01.

quite clear she was briefed. You read between the Theresa May lines.

:04:02.:04:07.

By simply not answering Andrew Marr four times, it is obvious she knew,

:04:08.:04:11.

and that she knew before she went into the House of Commons and urged

:04:12.:04:16.

everyone to renew the ?40 billion replacement programme. Of course it

:04:17.:04:21.

is an embarrassment, but does it have political legs? I don't think

:04:22.:04:27.

so. She didn't mislead the Commons. If she wanted to close it down, the

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answer should have been, these are matters of national security.

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There's nothing more important in that than our nuclear deterrent. I'm

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not prepared to talk about testing. End of. But she didn't. Maybe you

:04:42.:04:48.

should be briefing her. That's a good answer. She is an interesting

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interviewee. She shows it when she is nervous. She was transparently

:04:53.:04:57.

uneasy answering those questions, and the fact she didn't answer it

:04:58.:05:01.

definitively suggests she did know and didn't want to say it, and she

:05:02.:05:07.

answered awkwardly. But how wider point, that the House of Commons

:05:08.:05:12.

voted for the renewal of Trident, suggests to me that in the broader

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sweep of things, this will not run, because if there was another vote, I

:05:17.:05:21.

would suggest she'd win it again. But it is an embarrassment and she

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handled it with a transparent awkwardness. She said that the tests

:05:28.:05:33.

go on all the time, but not of the missiles. Does it not show that when

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the Prime Minister leaves her comfort zone of Home Office affairs

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or related matters, she often struggles. We've seen it under

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questioning from Mr Corbyn even, and we saw it again today. Absolutely.

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Tests of various aspects of the missiles go on all the time, but

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there's only been five since 2000. What you described wouldn't have

:06:00.:06:03.

worked, because in previous tests they have always been very public

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about it. Look how well our missiles work! She may not have misled

:06:09.:06:18.

Parliament, but she may not have known about it. If she didn't know,

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does Michael Fallon still have a job on Monday? Should Parliament know

:06:24.:06:28.

about a test that doesn't work? Some would say absolutely not. Our

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deterrent is there to deter people from attacking us. If they know that

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we are hitting the United States by mistake rather than the Atlantic

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Ocean, then... There is such a thing as national security, and telling

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all the bad guys about where we are going wrong may not be a good idea.

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It was her first statement as Prime Minister to put her case for

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renewal, to have the vote on Trident, and in that context, it is

:07:01.:07:05.

significant not to say anything. If anyone knows where the missile

:07:06.:07:07.

landed, give us a call! So Donald Trump's inauguration day

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closed with him dancing to Frank Sinatra's My Way,

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and whatever your view on the 45th President of the United States

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he certainly did do it his way. Not for him the idealistic call

:07:16.:07:18.

for national unity - instead he used Friday's inaugural

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address to launch a blistering attack on the dark state

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of the nation and the political class, and to promise

:07:24.:07:26.

to take his uncompromising approach from the campaign trail

:07:27.:07:31.

to the White House. Here's Adam Fleming,

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with a reminder of how First, dropping by for a cup of tea

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and a slightly awkward exchange Then, friends, foes

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and predecessors watched I, Donald John Trump,

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do solemnly swear... The crowds seemed smaller

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than previous inaugurations, the speech tougher then any

:08:04.:08:07.

previous incoming president. From this day forth,

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it's going to be only America first. In the meantime, there were sporadic

:08:13.:08:19.

protests in Washington, DC. Opponents made their voices heard

:08:20.:08:44.

around the world too. The President,

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who'd criticised the work of the intelligence agencies,

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fitted in a visit to the CIA. There is nobody that feels stronger

:08:51.:08:54.

about the intelligence community And, back at the office,

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in the dark, a signature signalled the end of the Obama era

:08:59.:09:10.

and the dawn of Trump. So, as you heard there,

:09:11.:09:15.

President Trump used his inauguration to repeat his campaign

:09:16.:09:22.

promise to put "America first" in all his decisions, and offered

:09:23.:09:24.

some hints of what to expect He talked of in America in carnage,

:09:25.:09:42.

to be rebuilt by American hands and American Labour. President Trump has

:09:43.:09:45.

already started to dismantle key parts of the Obama Legacy, including

:09:46.:09:51.

the unwinding of the affordable care act, and the siding of the climate

:09:52.:09:55.

action plan to tackle global warning. Little to say about foreign

:09:56.:10:00.

policy, but promised to eradicate Islamic terrorism from the face of

:10:01.:10:05.

the Earth, insisting he would restore the US military to

:10:06.:10:09.

unquestioning dominance. He also said the US would develop a state

:10:10.:10:15.

missile defence system to deal with threats he sees from Iran and North

:10:16.:10:20.

Korea. In a statement that painted a bleak picture of the country he now

:10:21.:10:26.

runs, he said his would be a law and order Administration, and he would

:10:27.:10:31.

keep the innocents safe by building the border war with Mexico. One

:10:32.:10:36.

thing he didn't mention, for the first time ever, there is a

:10:37.:10:41.

Eurosceptic in the oval office, who is also an enthusiast for Brexit.

:10:42.:10:44.

We're joined now by Ted Malloch - he's a Trump supporter who's been

:10:45.:10:47.

tipped as the president's choice for US ambassador

:10:48.:10:49.

to the EU, and he's just flown back from Washington.

:10:50.:10:51.

And by James Rubin - he's a democrat who served

:10:52.:10:54.

Let's start with that last point I made in the voice over there. We now

:10:55.:11:04.

have a Eurosceptic in the oval office. He is pro-Brexit and not

:11:05.:11:11.

keen on further European Union integration. What are the

:11:12.:11:15.

implications of that? First of all, a renewal of the US- UK special

:11:16.:11:21.

relationship. You see the Prime Minister already going to build and

:11:22.:11:26.

rebuild this relationship. Already, the bust of Winston Churchill is

:11:27.:11:32.

back in the oval office. Interestingly, Martin Luther King's

:11:33.:11:36.

bust is also there, so there is an act of unity in that first movement

:11:37.:11:42.

of dusts. Donald Trump will be oriented between bilateral

:11:43.:11:47.

relationships and not multilateral or supernatural. Supranational full.

:11:48.:11:59.

What are the implications of someone in the White House now not believing

:12:00.:12:04.

in it? I think we are present in the unravelling of America's leadership

:12:05.:12:08.

of the West. There is now a thing called the west that America has led

:12:09.:12:13.

since the end of World War II, creating supranational - we just

:12:14.:12:25.

heard supernatural! These institutions were created. With

:12:26.:12:29.

American leadership, the world was at peace in Europe, and the world

:12:30.:12:33.

grew increasingly democratic and prosperous. Wars were averted that

:12:34.:12:38.

could be extremely costly. When something works in diplomacy, you

:12:39.:12:42.

don't really understand what the consequences could have been. I

:12:43.:12:48.

think we've got complacent. The new president is taking advantage of

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that. It is a terrible tragedy that so many in the West take for granted

:12:53.:12:58.

the successful leadership and institutions we have built. You

:12:59.:13:02.

could argue, as James Rubin has argued in some articles, that...

:13:03.:13:10.

Will Mr Trump's America be more involved in the world than the Obama

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won? Or will it continue the process with running shoes on that began

:13:18.:13:25.

with Mr Obama? President Obama stepped back from American

:13:26.:13:28.

leadership. He withdrew from the world. He had a horrendous eight

:13:29.:13:33.

years in office, and American powers have diminished everywhere in the

:13:34.:13:38.

world, not just in Europe. That power will reassert. The focus will

:13:39.:13:44.

be on America first, but there are foreign interests around the

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world... How does it reassert itself around the world? I think the

:13:48.:13:53.

institutions will be recreated. Some may be taken down. There could be

:13:54.:14:00.

some new ones. I think Nato itself, and certainly the Defence Secretary

:14:01.:14:03.

will have discussions with Donald Trump about how Nato can be

:14:04.:14:08.

reshaped, and maybe there will be more burden sharing. That is an

:14:09.:14:12.

important thing for him. You are tipped to be the US ambassador to

:14:13.:14:17.

Brussels, to the EU, and we are still waiting to hear if that will

:14:18.:14:22.

happen. Is it true to say that Mr Trump does not believe in EU

:14:23.:14:28.

integration? I think you made that clear in the speech. He talked about

:14:29.:14:38.

supranational. He does not believe in those kinds of organisations. He

:14:39.:14:44.

is investing himself in bilateral relationships, the first of which

:14:45.:14:49.

will be with the UK. So we have a president who does not believe in EU

:14:50.:14:54.

integration and has been highly critical of Nato. Do the people he

:14:55.:15:00.

has appointed to defend, Secretary of State, national security, do you

:15:01.:15:05.

think that will temper this anti-NATO wretched? Will he come

:15:06.:15:11.

round to a more pro-NATO situation? I think those of us who care about

:15:12.:15:17.

America's situation in the world will come in to miss President Obama

:15:18.:15:23.

a lot. I think the Secretary of State and the faculty of defence

:15:24.:15:26.

will limit the damage and will urge him not to take formal steps to

:15:27.:15:31.

unravel this most powerful and most successful alliance in history, the

:15:32.:15:36.

Nato alliance. But the damage is already being done. When you are the

:15:37.:15:43.

leader of the West, leadership means you are persuading, encouraging,

:15:44.:15:47.

bolstering your leadership and these institutions by the way you speak.

:15:48.:15:52.

Millions, if not hundreds of millions of people, have now heard

:15:53.:15:57.

the US say that what they care about is within their borders.

:15:58.:16:01.

What do you say to that? It is such an overstatement. The point is that

:16:02.:16:12.

Donald Trump is in a Jacksonian tradition of national populism. He

:16:13.:16:18.

is appealing to the people first. The other day, I was sitting below

:16:19.:16:23.

this page during the address, and he said, everyone sitting behind me as

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part of the problem. Everyone in front of me, the crowd and the crowd

:16:27.:16:30.

on television, is part of the solution, so we are giving the

:16:31.:16:34.

Government back to the people. That emphasis is going to change American

:16:35.:16:38.

life, including American International relations. It doesn't

:16:39.:16:45.

moving the leak back -- it doesn't mean we are moving out of Nato, it

:16:46.:16:50.

simply means we will put our national interests first. There were

:16:51.:16:55.

echoes of Andrew Jackson's inauguration address of 1820. That

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night, the Jacksonians trashed the White House, but Mr Trump's people

:17:02.:17:05.

didn't do that, so there is a difference there. He also said

:17:06.:17:10.

something else in the address - that protectionism would lead to

:17:11.:17:14.

prosperity. I would suggest there is no evidence for that in the post-war

:17:15.:17:20.

world. He talked about protecting the American worker, American jobs,

:17:21.:17:26.

the American economy. I actually think that Donald Trump will not

:17:27.:17:33.

turn out to be a protectionist. If you read the heart of the deal...

:17:34.:17:40.

This is referring to two Republican senators who introduce massive

:17:41.:17:42.

tariffs in the Hoover administration. Exactly. If you read

:17:43.:17:52.

The Art Of The Deal, you will see how Donald Trump deals with

:17:53.:17:56.

individuals and countries. There is a lot of bluster, positioning, and I

:17:57.:18:02.

think you already see this in bringing jobs by the United States.

:18:03.:18:06.

Things are going to change. Let's also deal with this proposition.

:18:07.:18:10.

China is the biggest loser of this election result. Let me say this:

:18:11.:18:17.

The first time in American history and American president has set forth

:18:18.:18:25.

his view of the world, and it is a mercantile view of the world, who

:18:26.:18:32.

makes more money, who gets more trade, it doesn't look at the shared

:18:33.:18:36.

values, leadership and defends the world needs. The art of the deal has

:18:37.:18:40.

no application to America's leadership of the world, that's what

:18:41.:18:43.

we're learning. You can be a great businessman and make great real

:18:44.:18:49.

estate deals - whether he did not is debatable - but it has nothing to do

:18:50.:18:52.

with inspiring shared values from the West. You saying China may lose,

:18:53.:18:58.

because he may pressure them to reduce their trade deficit with the

:18:59.:19:03.

US. They may or may not. We may both lose. Right now, his Secretary of

:19:04.:19:08.

State has said, and I think he will walk this back when he is brief,

:19:09.:19:13.

that they will prevent the Chinese from entering these islands in the

:19:14.:19:17.

South China Sea. If they were to do that, it would be a blockade, and

:19:18.:19:21.

there would be a shooting war between the United States and China,

:19:22.:19:26.

so US - China relations are the most important bilateral relationship of

:19:27.:19:29.

the United States, and they don't lend themselves to the bluff and

:19:30.:19:33.

bluster that may have worked when you are trying to get a big building

:19:34.:19:39.

on second Ave in Manhattan. Is China the biggest loser? I think the

:19:40.:19:46.

Chinese have a lot to lose. Gigi and Ping was in Davos this week -- Xi

:19:47.:19:57.

Jin Ping was in Davos. Is Germany the second biggest loser

:19:58.:20:08.

in the sense that I understand he hasn't agreed time to see Angela

:20:09.:20:12.

Merkel yet, also that those close to him believe that Germany is guilty

:20:13.:20:18.

of currency manipulation by adopting a weak your row instead of the

:20:19.:20:22.

strong Deutschmark, and that that is why they are running a huge balance

:20:23.:20:26.

of payments surplus with the United States. American - German relations

:20:27.:20:32.

may not be great. There is a point of view throughout Europe. You only

:20:33.:20:37.

have to talk to the southern Europeans about this question. It

:20:38.:20:42.

seems like the euro has been aligned to benefit Germany. Joe Stiglitz,

:20:43.:20:46.

the famous left of centre Democrat economist, made the same case in a

:20:47.:20:53.

recent book. In this case, I think Germany will be put under the

:20:54.:20:57.

spotlight. Angela Merkel has shown herself to be the most respected and

:20:58.:21:01.

the most successful leader in Europe. We who care about the West,

:21:02.:21:07.

who care about the shared values of the West, should pray and hope that

:21:08.:21:11.

she is re-elected. This isn't about dollars and cents. We're living in a

:21:12.:21:16.

time whether Russian leader has another country in Europe and for

:21:17.:21:21.

some inexplicable reason, the American president, who can use his

:21:22.:21:27.

insult diplomacy on everyone, including Mrs Merkel, the only

:21:28.:21:33.

person he can't seem to find anything to criticise about is Mr

:21:34.:21:37.

Putin. There are things more important than the actual details of

:21:38.:21:40.

your currency. There are things like preventing another war in Europe,

:21:41.:21:44.

preventing a war between the Chinese and the US. You talk about the

:21:45.:21:51.

Trident missile all morning, nuclear deterrence is extremely important.

:21:52.:21:55.

It doesn't lend itself to the bluff and bluster of a real estate deal. I

:21:56.:21:59.

understand all that, but the fact we are even talking about these things

:22:00.:22:02.

shows the new world we are moving into. I'd like to get you both to

:22:03.:22:08.

react to this. This is a man that ended the Bush Dynasty, a man that

:22:09.:22:16.

beat the Clinton machine. In his inauguration, not only did he not

:22:17.:22:19.

reach out to the Democrats, he didn't even mention the Republicans.

:22:20.:22:24.

These are changed days for us. They are, and change can be good or

:22:25.:22:28.

disastrous. I'm worried that it's easy in the world of diplomacy and

:22:29.:22:33.

in them -- for the leadership of the United States to break relationships

:22:34.:22:38.

and ruin alliances. These are things that were carefully nurtured. George

:22:39.:22:47.

Schultz, the American Secretary of State under Reagan talked about

:22:48.:22:51.

gardening, the slow, careful creation of a place with bilateral

:22:52.:22:56.

relationships that were blossoming and flowering multilateral

:22:57.:22:58.

relationships that take decades to create, and he will throw them away

:22:59.:23:01.

in a matter of days. The final word... I work for George Schultz.

:23:02.:23:08.

He was a Marine who stood up America, defended America, who would

:23:09.:23:12.

be in favour of many of the things that Donald Trump and the tramp

:23:13.:23:17.

Administration... Give him a call. His top aide macs that I've spoken

:23:18.:23:22.

to are appalled by Mr Trump's abdication of leadership. He is

:23:23.:23:27.

going to our radically -- he's going to eradicate extremist Islam from

:23:28.:23:35.

the face of the year. Is that realistic? I know people in the

:23:36.:23:38.

national security realm have worked on a plan. They say they will have

:23:39.:23:42.

such a plan in some detail within 90 days. Lets hope they succeed. We

:23:43.:23:51.

have run out of time. As a issues. Thank you, both. -- fascinating

:23:52.:23:52.

issues. So Theresa May promised a big speech

:23:53.:23:56.

on Brexit, and this week - perhaps against expectation -

:23:57.:23:59.

she delivered, trying to answer claims that the government didn't

:24:00.:24:01.

have a plan with an explicit wish-list of what she hopes to

:24:02.:24:04.

achieve in negotiations with the EU. To her allies it was ambitious,

:24:05.:24:07.

bold, optimistic - to her opponents it was full

:24:08.:24:09.

of contradictions Here's Adam again, with a reminder

:24:10.:24:11.

of the speech and how There are speeches,

:24:12.:24:14.

and there are speeches. Like Theresa May's 12 principles

:24:15.:24:19.

for a Brexit deal leading to the UK fully out of the EU

:24:20.:24:23.

but still friendly in terms This agreement should allow

:24:24.:24:26.

for the freest possible trade in goods and services between

:24:27.:24:30.

Britain and the EU's member states. It should give British

:24:31.:24:32.

companies the maximum operate within European markets

:24:33.:24:38.

and let European businesses do She also said no deal would be

:24:39.:24:41.

better than the wrong deal, We want to test what people think

:24:42.:24:49.

about what she's just said. Do we have any of our

:24:50.:25:05.

future negotiating As the European Parliament

:25:06.:25:07.

voted for its new president, its chief

:25:08.:25:12.

negotiator sounded off. Saying, OK, if our European

:25:13.:25:20.

counterparts don't accept it, we're going to make

:25:21.:25:22.

from Britain a sort of free zone or tax haven,

:25:23.:25:25.

I The Prime Minister of Malta,

:25:26.:25:27.

the country that's assumed the EU's rotating presidency,

:25:28.:25:34.

spoke in sorrow and a bit of anger. We want a fair deal

:25:35.:25:37.

for the United Kingdom, but that deal necessarily needs to be

:25:38.:25:41.

inferior to membership. Next, let's hear

:25:42.:25:51.

from some enthusiastic leavers, like, I don't

:25:52.:25:53.

know, the Daily Mail? The paper lapped it up

:25:54.:25:59.

with this adoring front page. For Brexiteers, it was

:26:00.:26:02.

all manna from heaven. I think today means we are a big

:26:03.:26:06.

step closer to becoming an independent country again,

:26:07.:26:08.

with control of our own laws, I was chuckling at some of it,

:26:09.:26:11.

to be honest, because There were various phrases there

:26:12.:26:17.

which I've used myself again and Do we have any of those

:26:18.:26:21.

so-called Remoaners? There will, at the end

:26:22.:26:26.

of this deal process, so politicians get to vote

:26:27.:26:28.

on the stitch-up, but We take the view as

:26:29.:26:32.

Liberal Democrats that if this process started

:26:33.:26:35.

with democracy last June, We trusted the people

:26:36.:26:37.

with departure, we must trust them Do we have anyone from

:26:38.:26:41.

Labour, or are you all watching it in a small

:26:42.:26:47.

room somewhere? Throughout the speech, there seemed

:26:48.:26:49.

to be an implied threat that somewhere along the line,

:26:50.:26:57.

if all her optimism of a deal with the European Union didn't work,

:26:58.:27:00.

we would move into a low-tax, corporate taxation,

:27:01.:27:02.

bargain-basement economy on the I think she needs to be

:27:03.:27:04.

a bit clearer about what The Labour leader

:27:05.:27:08.

suggested he'd tell his MPs to vote in favour

:27:09.:27:15.

of starting a Brexit process if Parliament was given the choice,

:27:16.:27:18.

sparking a mini pre-revolt among Finally, do we have anyone

:27:19.:27:20.

from big business here? Of course, your all in Davos

:27:21.:27:26.

at the World Economic Clarity, first of all, really

:27:27.:27:35.

codified what many of us have been anticipating since

:27:36.:27:45.

the referendum result, particularly around

:27:46.:27:47.

the I think what we've also seen

:27:48.:27:48.

today is the Government's willingness to put a bit of edge

:27:49.:27:52.

into the negotiating dynamic, and I Trade negotiations are negotiations,

:27:53.:27:55.

and you have to lay out, and you have to be pretty tough

:27:56.:28:00.

to get what you want. Although some business people

:28:01.:28:02.

on the slopes speculated about moving some of their

:28:03.:28:04.

operations out of Brexit Britain. We saw there the instant reaction

:28:05.:28:07.

of Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn, but how will the party respond

:28:08.:28:25.

to the challenge posed by Brexit Well, I'm joined now by the Shadow

:28:26.:28:28.

Home Secretary, Diane Abbott. People know that Ukip and the Tories

:28:29.:28:37.

are for Brexit. The Lib Dems are four remain. What is Labour for? For

:28:38.:28:42.

respecting the result of the referendum. It was a 72% turnout,

:28:43.:28:48.

very high for an election of that nature, and we believe you have to

:28:49.:28:51.

respect that result. You couldn't have a situation where people like

:28:52.:28:55.

Tim Farron are saying to people, millions of people, sorry, you got

:28:56.:28:59.

it wrong, we in London no better. However, how the Tories go forward

:29:00.:29:04.

from here has to be subject to parliamentary scrutiny. Is it Shadow

:29:05.:29:10.

Cabinet policy to vote for the triggering of Article 50? Our policy

:29:11.:29:15.

is not to block Article 50. That is what the leader was saying this

:29:16.:29:22.

morning. So are you for it? Our policy is not to block it. You are

:29:23.:29:27.

talking about voting for it. We don't know what the Supreme Court is

:29:28.:29:33.

going to say, and we don't know what legislation Government will bring

:29:34.:29:35.

forward, and we don't know what amendment we will move, but we're

:29:36.:29:41.

clear that we will not vote to block it. OK, so you won't bow to stop it,

:29:42.:29:45.

but you could abstain? No, what we will do... Either you vote for or

:29:46.:29:53.

against all you abstain. There are too many unanswered questions. For

:29:54.:29:57.

instance, the position of EU migrants working and living in this

:29:58.:30:02.

country. You may not get the answer to that before Article 50 comes

:30:03.:30:06.

before the Commons, so what would you do then? We are giving to amend

:30:07.:30:11.

it. We can only tell you exactly how we will amend it when we understand

:30:12.:30:15.

what sort of legislation the Government is putting forward, and

:30:16.:30:19.

in the course of moving those amendments, we will ask the

:30:20.:30:23.

questions that the people of Britain whether they voted to leave remain

:30:24.:30:24.

want answered. When you come to a collective view,

:30:25.:30:35.

will there be a three line whip? I can't tell you, because we have not

:30:36.:30:39.

seen the government 's legislation. But when you see it, you will come

:30:40.:30:47.

to a collective view. Many regard this as extremely important. Will

:30:48.:30:51.

there be a three line whip on Labour's collective view? Because it

:30:52.:30:56.

is important, we shouldn't get ahead of ourselves. When we see what the

:30:57.:31:01.

Supreme Court says, and crucially, when we see what the government

:31:02.:31:06.

position is, you will hear what the whipping is. Will shadow ministers

:31:07.:31:12.

be able to defy any three line whip on this? That is not normally the

:31:13.:31:18.

case. But they did on an early vote that the government introduced on

:31:19.:31:23.

Article 50. Those who voted against it are still there. In the Blair

:31:24.:31:28.

years, you certainly couldn't defy a three line whip. We will see what

:31:29.:31:33.

happens going forward. I remember when the Tories were hopelessly

:31:34.:31:39.

divided over the EU. All these Maastricht votes and an list

:31:40.:31:44.

arguments. Now it is Labour. Just another symptom of Mr Corbyn's poor

:31:45.:31:56.

leadership. Not at all. Two thirds voted to leave, a third to remain.

:31:57.:32:01.

We are seeking to bring the country and the party together. We will do

:32:02.:32:06.

that by pointing out how disastrous a Tory Brexit would be. Meanwhile,

:32:07.:32:17.

around 80 Labour MPs will defy a three line whip. It's too early to

:32:18.:32:22.

say that. Will you publish what you believe the negotiating goal should

:32:23.:32:27.

be? We are clear on it. We think that the economy, jobs and living

:32:28.:32:32.

standards should be the priority. What Theresa May is saying is that

:32:33.:32:37.

holding her party together is her priority. She is putting party above

:32:38.:32:43.

country. Does Labour think we should remain members of the single market?

:32:44.:32:49.

Ideally, in terms of jobs and the economy, of course. Ritt -ish

:32:50.:32:55.

business thinks that as well. Is Labour policy that we should remain

:32:56.:32:58.

a member of the single market? Labour leaves that jobs and the

:32:59.:33:03.

economy comes first, and if they come first, you would want to remain

:33:04.:33:09.

part of the single market. But to remain a member? Jobs and the

:33:10.:33:15.

economy comes first, and to do that, ideally, guess. So with that, comes

:33:16.:33:21.

free movement of people, the jurisdiction of the European, and a

:33:22.:33:25.

multi-million never shipped thief. Is Labour prepared to pay that?

:33:26.:33:34.

Money is neither here nor there. Because the Tories will be asked to

:33:35.:33:42.

pay a lot of money... The EU has made it clear that you cannot

:33:43.:33:48.

have... I am asking for Labour's position. Our position is rooted in

:33:49.:33:54.

the reality, and the reality is that you cannot have the benefits of the

:33:55.:33:58.

member of the European Union, including being a member of the

:33:59.:34:02.

single market, without responsibility, including free

:34:03.:34:07.

movement of people. Free movement, is remaining under the jurisdiction

:34:08.:34:12.

of the European Court of Justice. Is that the Labour position? You've

:34:13.:34:19.

said that Labour wants to remain a member of the single market. That is

:34:20.:34:24.

the price tag that comes with it. Does Labour agree with paying that

:34:25.:34:30.

price tag? We are not pre-empting negotiation. Our goals are protect

:34:31.:34:35.

jobs and the British economy. Is it Labour's position that we remain a

:34:36.:34:40.

member of the customs union? Well, if we don't, I don't see how Theresa

:34:41.:34:54.

May can keep our promises and has unfettered access... You said

:34:55.:34:59.

Labour's position was clear. It is! It is clear that Theresa May... I am

:35:00.:35:07.

not asking about Theresa May. Is it Labour's position to remain a member

:35:08.:35:14.

of the customs union? It is Labour's position to do what is right for

:35:15.:35:19.

British industry. Depending on how the negotiations go, it may prove

:35:20.:35:24.

that coming out of the customs union, as Theresa May has indicated

:35:25.:35:28.

she wants to do, could prove catastrophic, and could actually

:35:29.:35:35.

destroy some of her promises. You do accept that if we are member of the

:35:36.:35:39.

customs union, we cannot do our own free trade deals? What free trade

:35:40.:35:48.

deals are you talking about? The ones that Labour might want to do in

:35:49.:35:54.

the future. First, we have to protect British jobs and British

:35:55.:35:58.

industries. If you are talking about free trade deals with Donald Trump,

:35:59.:36:02.

the danger is that Theresa May will get drawn into a free-trade deal

:36:03.:36:07.

with America that will open up the NHS to American corporate... The

:36:08.:36:14.

cards are in Theresa May's hands. If she takes us out of the single

:36:15.:36:19.

market, if she takes us out of the customs union, we will have to deal

:36:20.:36:23.

with that. How big a crisis for Jeremy Corbyn will be if Labour

:36:24.:36:29.

loses both by-elections in February. I don't believe we will lose both.

:36:30.:36:36.

But if he did? I am not anticipating that. Is Labour lost two seats in a

:36:37.:36:44.

midterm of a Tory government, would that be business as usual? I'm not

:36:45.:36:47.

prepared to see us lose those seats, so I will not talk about something

:36:48.:36:49.

that will not happen. Thank you. You're watching

:36:50.:36:53.

the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers

:36:54.:36:54.

in Scotland, who leave us now Coming up here in 20

:36:55.:36:57.

minutes, The Week Ahead, when we'll be talking

:36:58.:37:00.

to Business Minister Margot James about the government's

:37:01.:37:02.

new industrial strategy and that crucial Supreme Court

:37:03.:37:05.

ruling on Brexit. First, though, the Sunday

:37:06.:37:08.

Politics where you are. Hello and a warm welcome

:37:09.:37:18.

to your local part of the show. This weekend, will nightschools soon

:37:19.:37:22.

be a thing of the past? Some MPs claim adult education

:37:23.:37:26.

classes could disappear altogether unless government cuts

:37:27.:37:28.

are rapidly reversed. We'll also have the latest news

:37:29.:37:31.

on the candidates fighting next month's crucial

:37:32.:37:34.

by-election in Copeland. But first, can the north-east

:37:35.:37:37.

and Cumbria flourish outside the EU Labour's Stephen Hughes has spent

:37:38.:37:40.

30 years representing Northeastern European Parliament

:37:41.:37:50.

and the Conservative MP You were a conservative who backed

:37:51.:37:52.

Remain in the referendum and the PM seems to be taking us to one

:37:53.:37:58.

of the hardest Brexits she could. I think the PM's

:37:59.:38:01.

speech was very good. A logical approach to negotiations,

:38:02.:38:04.

we are only about to start negotiations with Europe so she set

:38:05.:38:08.

out our position, a starting point, over the course of the next year

:38:09.:38:12.

we'll start to find out You must remember, before successful

:38:13.:38:16.

negotiations you have She set up a logical decision

:38:17.:38:22.

and I think we can prosper outside the European Common market

:38:23.:38:27.

because we'll be able to do deals with other countries,

:38:28.:38:31.

while at the same time I'm sure at the end of the day,

:38:32.:38:34.

we will strike a bespoke EU deal. You spent 30 years working

:38:35.:38:41.

in the European Parliament, to bring Britain and Europe closer

:38:42.:38:46.

together, what do you I think one of the French

:38:47.:38:49.

liberal MPs said well, you don't start a negotiation

:38:50.:38:56.

with a threat. I think it was a mistake to use that

:38:57.:38:58.

threat, the EU would be self mutilating if it took

:38:59.:39:02.

a tougher approach. I don't think people like

:39:03.:39:05.

the negotiator in the Parliament or Jean-Claude Juncker are trying

:39:06.:39:08.

to play hardball. They are saying it's going to be

:39:09.:39:12.

difficult because it is. But I think she's set out

:39:13.:39:14.

a number of ideas that The objectives give us

:39:15.:39:19.

an idea of the direction she would like to travel,

:39:20.:39:22.

we have got to see John is right, takes two

:39:23.:39:25.

to tango and we need to see Ukip were delighted by the tone

:39:26.:39:30.

of Theresa May's speech. But the party remains concerned not

:39:31.:39:35.

every Conservative MP It was a very good speech, in fact

:39:36.:39:37.

it could have been a Ukip speech. The only thing is she didn't mention

:39:38.:39:44.

was regaining our fishing ground, that was a bit of a disappointment

:39:45.:39:48.

but she was very clear we'll be leaving the single

:39:49.:39:51.

market and I welcome that. I'm still a bit worried

:39:52.:39:54.

about the pace of the And I still worry that ultimately

:39:55.:39:56.

Theresa May was a Remainer and she still has some of those MPs

:39:57.:40:00.

in her Cabinet, that worries me. I hope they're fully on board

:40:01.:40:05.

but we'll have to wait and see and that is the reason Ukip

:40:06.:40:08.

needs to continue. John, not sure if you're flattered,

:40:09.:40:10.

but that's the danger, you are aping their views by putting

:40:11.:40:17.

immigration as the top priority, controlling it, ahead

:40:18.:40:21.

of the welfare of the economy. No, I think any government

:40:22.:40:27.

has to do this, looks at the laws about immigration,

:40:28.:40:30.

future deals with other countries, government will do a number

:40:31.:40:35.

of things at the same time but the consequence of taking back

:40:36.:40:37.

control of boundaries means we are not part of the common

:40:38.:40:40.

market, of the European market. But a lot of businesses wanted

:40:41.:40:46.

to make sure they were in there We have the ability

:40:47.:40:49.

to come to an agreement with the European Union about access

:40:50.:40:56.

to their markets in exactly the same way they will have to come

:40:57.:40:59.

to an arrangement with us I think at the end of the day you

:41:00.:41:02.

end up with a bespoke EU UK deal. Are all constituents

:41:03.:41:11.

as relaxed as you? They recognise it's not going to be

:41:12.:41:12.

straightforward but I also think they accept the decision

:41:13.:41:15.

of the British people and what we now need to do is make

:41:16.:41:17.

sure we get the best possible deal, not just for the UK

:41:18.:41:21.

but also in Europe. When we negotiate looking

:41:22.:41:23.

towards mutual benefit I think If the Prime Minister is to address

:41:24.:41:26.

the concerns of voters about immigration she clearly has no

:41:27.:41:31.

choice but to leave If she wants to control immigration

:41:32.:41:34.

she has to leave the single market. Free movement is a fundamental

:41:35.:41:44.

part of access. We'll have a real problem

:41:45.:41:46.

in attracting the sort 69% of firms are worried they can't

:41:47.:41:52.

get recruits with skills they need, If we put these restrictions

:41:53.:41:57.

in the way for people looking for jobs we have real bottlenecks

:41:58.:42:05.

in the labour market, The predictions of economic doom

:42:06.:42:08.

and gloom haven't come to pass, we had them

:42:09.:42:12.

during the referendum, Does her speech change

:42:13.:42:14.

the direction of that? We will end up with a bespoke deal,

:42:15.:42:19.

but for the Parliament, the Maltese Foreign Minister,

:42:20.:42:25.

on our side, says a country leaving the European Union can't be

:42:26.:42:28.

seen to be better off It's at that point, that will become

:42:29.:42:31.

extremely difficult, John, the Prime Minister

:42:32.:42:41.

promised certainty, one But actually, this doesn't offer

:42:42.:42:44.

that, we don't know what the deal will be at the end of the day,

:42:45.:42:56.

we don't know if we get tariff free access companies like Pirelli

:42:57.:43:00.

and companies like Nissan, the Chief Executive

:43:01.:43:02.

talking about looking A deal already been done

:43:03.:43:03.

might unravel if you At this stage we don't know

:43:04.:43:06.

what the final deal will become What we have to do is make sure

:43:07.:43:12.

we get the best possible deal for Britain and Europe,

:43:13.:43:21.

at the same time,... You've got to reach an agreement

:43:22.:43:23.

with 27 different countries. Someone like Nissan,

:43:24.:43:25.

the Prime Minister spent time with them already saying,

:43:26.:43:27.

we are going to have to look at this, the decisions we might have

:43:28.:43:30.

made might have to be reversed. There is an acceptance any

:43:31.:43:33.

negotiation will be tough but nevertheless at the end

:43:34.:43:35.

of the day there will be an agreement between the EU and UK

:43:36.:43:38.

that also gives us the opportunity to start negotiating with other

:43:39.:43:41.

countries on our own terms, not with the EU as part

:43:42.:43:43.

of the group. For example, we'll be able to do

:43:44.:43:46.

deals with Australia, New Zealand, America,

:43:47.:43:49.

Canada, there are opportunities for us and at the same time reaching

:43:50.:43:51.

agreement with the EU. We promised that we get

:43:52.:43:58.

the voice of the North heard Cumbria won't have a seat

:43:59.:44:09.

at the discussions about We have representatives like myself

:44:10.:44:13.

who will feed in views to the government ministers and that

:44:14.:44:17.

happens throughout the country. The Tees Valley mayor will get a say

:44:18.:44:19.

in negotiations apparently because there is a Mayor

:44:20.:44:25.

but you can't involve the rest of the region,

:44:26.:44:27.

doesn't have a figurehead. It's a shame the rest

:44:28.:44:29.

of the region not decided not We get to see who will be elected

:44:30.:44:32.

in the Tees corridor, Do you think the north interests

:44:33.:44:36.

will be represented? The MEPs, the MPs will do

:44:37.:44:42.

an excellent job in presenting But those areas with a mayor,

:44:43.:44:45.

speaking on behalf of the local authority in their area will add

:44:46.:44:52.

a little bit of oomph to it. More than 60 MPs have signed

:44:53.:44:55.

a Commons motion condemning They warn traditional evening

:44:56.:45:01.

classes in subjects like pottery and foreign languages may disappear

:45:02.:45:05.

altogether because of The government says its putting

:45:06.:45:07.

the emphasis where it's needed most They are back to class even though

:45:08.:45:10.

they left school years ago. Adult education has seen funding

:45:11.:45:20.

and participation fall but these two Now she's learning to weld, to help

:45:21.:45:24.

her become a sculptor of metalwork. Alan was made redundant

:45:25.:45:35.

from life as a steelworker. He hopes this access course will

:45:36.:45:47.

lead to university and the chance to study social work. Both say the

:45:48.:45:52.

experience as life changing. It opens up a new world, a new world of

:45:53.:45:56.

opportunity and if you are made redundant, it's not the end of the

:45:57.:46:02.

world. The standards are very high. So that sense of satisfaction of

:46:03.:46:07.

achieving, getting your past and your exam pieces and practical

:46:08.:46:11.

pieces is fantastic. Here at Hartlepool College all ages take

:46:12.:46:15.

part in academic and technical learning but government austerity

:46:16.:46:19.

has had an impact. The man in charge says funding is down with adult

:46:20.:46:24.

enrolment tumbling 40%. Fewer students, fewer courses. About ten

:46:25.:46:30.

years ago we were quite by bin, four nights a week, we've cut that down

:46:31.:46:36.

to three, we want to make sure we have access to the adults of

:46:37.:46:39.

Hartlepool but it's getting more difficult to do that the funding.

:46:40.:46:43.

Unlike this needlework, the debate around adult learning has many

:46:44.:46:47.

threads. Regulars at this Gateshead craft class say it's benefits or

:46:48.:46:51.

social as well as educational. It's great. When you are retired you need

:46:52.:46:55.

to keep your brain working and the creative side going, mixing with

:46:56.:47:01.

people, it covers all of those. It's the social side, meeting people,

:47:02.:47:06.

learning to crochet, learning to knit. Sessions like these are under

:47:07.:47:11.

pressure. We have to turn down requests for classes like this all

:47:12.:47:15.

the time. We have to be very selective because we got limited

:47:16.:47:18.

funding and I think it would be brilliant if there was more funding

:47:19.:47:22.

available so more people could participate and get back to society.

:47:23.:47:27.

In a letter to ministers 60 MPs have called for a new adult education

:47:28.:47:32.

strategy. They warn cuts to provision risk worsening a shortage

:47:33.:47:36.

of skills. That is damaging the economy. And they say possibility of

:47:37.:47:40.

makes the situation more pressing. makes the situation more pressing.

:47:41.:47:45.

People need to be able to get the skills to get good, high skilled,

:47:46.:47:49.

high wage jobs which employers need to be able to recruit those people.

:47:50.:47:55.

Adult lifelong education is key if we are going to have a competitive

:47:56.:47:58.

economy post Brexit. Supporters of the government accept money has been

:47:59.:48:03.

tied up point to extra investment on the horizon. We've also got more

:48:04.:48:08.

general adult learner loans, the budget for which is increasing from

:48:09.:48:13.

200 million to 480 million, we've got the apprenticeships levy

:48:14.:48:16.

delivering around 3 billion a year at the end of the Parliament from

:48:17.:48:20.

large employers to help pay for the apprenticeship system. There is a

:48:21.:48:24.

better financial envelope which should support adult education.

:48:25.:48:28.

Never too late to learn but in a fast changing world, the challenges

:48:29.:48:31.

to equip generations to change with it.

:48:32.:48:38.

Two different kinds of adult education, let's deal with both, one

:48:39.:48:41.

in particular, Stephen Hughes, people in Gateshead in the crochet

:48:42.:48:45.

class felt they were getting a lot out of it. Surely it's better when

:48:46.:48:48.

money is tight for them to fond of themselves or look for outside

:48:49.:48:54.

sponsorship? I think the general government of individuals is

:48:55.:48:59.

important. I think skills related to training is important because the

:49:00.:49:03.

points made in that piece are right. Classes which you could look out for

:49:04.:49:07.

leisure and pleasure? No. Any school that people pick up in life and

:49:08.:49:13.

develop them as individuals and improve participation in society,

:49:14.:49:16.

it's a shame if any class of any sort is cut. Education

:49:17.:49:20.

across-the-board is worth investing in, the worry is it's not being

:49:21.:49:25.

invested in. 40% reduction in adult education since 2010, three

:49:26.:49:29.

worrying. The colleges think it could be gone altogether by 2020.

:49:30.:49:36.

Let's deal with classes, some would say is leisure, it's a sad thing if

:49:37.:49:40.

we don't place leisure on the course in Gateshead. If mental health

:49:41.:49:44.

benefits from it, they and society benefit and it might keep them out

:49:45.:49:49.

of the NHS? Education and training will always change, the amount of

:49:50.:49:52.

money the government has to spend depends on economic circumstances.

:49:53.:49:57.

This government has concentrated on apprenticeships, that was one of the

:49:58.:50:01.

great successes, now an ambition to have 3 million apprenticeships. All

:50:02.:50:10.

that kind of stuff goes... For instance, it's important we train up

:50:11.:50:11.

the next generation. If you give me the next generation. If you give me

:50:12.:50:17.

a chance to complete... It means every part of the workforce. What

:50:18.:50:21.

I'm saying is the apprenticeships has been a success, continues to be

:50:22.:50:25.

in this and we are funding that. Looking ahead, we've got the

:50:26.:50:28.

apprenticeship levy coming in, that will raise nearly 3 billion by the

:50:29.:50:30.

end of this Parliament. There will end of this Parliament. There will

:50:31.:50:33.

be an opportunity for funding not just apprenticeships for youngsters

:50:34.:50:38.

but adult apprenticeships. I think that's a sensible investment into

:50:39.:50:41.

the economy, the workforce of the future and now we have to continue

:50:42.:50:46.

to train, clearly skills will be vital for the future success of the

:50:47.:50:50.

economy. Rather than rely on the taxpayer isn't it appropriate to get

:50:51.:50:53.

us in this through the apprenticeship levy to fund

:50:54.:50:57.

retraining of able or people to take loans so they have investment in

:50:58.:51:01.

their own future? I think businesses should be investing more, we've a

:51:02.:51:04.

real problem in this country that businesses don't invest in training

:51:05.:51:05.

their own people, they'd rather puts their own people, they'd rather puts

:51:06.:51:10.

them from other organisations but nevertheless, we need to go back to

:51:11.:51:15.

time we subsidised adult education. When my dad left the mind he went to

:51:16.:51:18.

an adult training centre which trained him to become an

:51:19.:51:22.

electrician, he got an electronic qualification and got a totally

:51:23.:51:24.

different career. There not the money. Of course there is, it's a

:51:25.:51:29.

question of priorities. In Darlington, 25% of people don't have

:51:30.:51:37.

formal qualifications. They are the long-term unemployed of the future

:51:38.:51:39.

unless we begin to reinvest in adult education. Post Brexit we are going

:51:40.:51:44.

firing on all cylinders if we are firing on all cylinders if we are

:51:45.:51:48.

going to reduce the allowance on migrant workers and the signs are

:51:49.:51:52.

not that good on this, if this continues, further education

:51:53.:51:56.

colleges can provide retraining. I disagree, in the last parliament we

:51:57.:52:00.

had 2 million new apprentices, this Parliament we should have 3 million,

:52:01.:52:03.

we have the levy coming in, there will be funding. Employers are

:52:04.:52:08.

crying over people with skills, they are not getting them. That's an

:52:09.:52:12.

indication we have to up skill the workforce as best we can but what I

:52:13.:52:16.

say, the government recognises we need to up the number of

:52:17.:52:19.

apprenticeships, hence the increase that they want this Parliament and

:52:20.:52:23.

that is a way to try and improve the skills that we need for a successful

:52:24.:52:29.

economy. Labour and Ukip have selected the candidates for

:52:30.:52:30.

couple and by-election, it will be couple and by-election, it will be

:52:31.:52:33.

moved tomorrow in Parliament and the date of the contest that Labour

:52:34.:52:36.

defends his slim majority is the 23rd of February. It will be a short

:52:37.:52:42.

and intense campaign. He was 60 seconds.

:52:43.:52:50.

Labour and Ukip have chosen their candidates for the couple and

:52:51.:52:55.

by-election. Gillian Trout and a Labour councillor, the owner Mills

:52:56.:52:59.

is the Cumbria chairman of Ukip. Rebecca Hanson the Lib Dem

:53:00.:53:03.

candidate, the Conservatives and Greens will announce soon. Money

:53:04.:53:08.

from the EU solidarity fund will come to the region, it's been

:53:09.:53:11.

announced. Government is using most of it to repay the EU for funding it

:53:12.:53:15.

says was misspent by the last Labour government. Councils in the

:53:16.:53:19.

Northeast need more cash for social care according to Labour. The

:53:20.:53:23.

government insists it is taking action but Bishop Auckland MP Helen

:53:24.:53:27.

Goodman told the Commons extra money councils can raise to council tax

:53:28.:53:32.

isn't enough. Has already had to make ?55 million of cuts. The

:53:33.:53:38.

precept will bring in 4 million, there is another 40 million of cuts

:53:39.:53:39.

in the pipeline. And finally plans in the pipeline. And finally plans

:53:40.:53:46.

by Northumberland Council to install 16,000 solar panels in woodland near

:53:47.:53:49.

Ashington have been shelved cos of subsidy worries.

:53:50.:53:53.

We talked candidates fighting the by-election in a special edition

:53:54.:53:59.

from West Cumbria next month. One of the issues in the by-election will

:54:00.:54:02.

be jobs and the government believes it has a good story to tell.

:54:03.:54:06.

Unemployment in the north-east and Cumbria cut by almost a half in the

:54:07.:54:11.

last four years. Weber says many of the jobs are part-time or zero hours

:54:12.:54:16.

contracts. Bob Cooper reports. The north-east stubbornly remains the

:54:17.:54:19.

rate in the country but it's been rate in the country but it's been

:54:20.:54:24.

falling in recent years. Today it stands at 620%, just over half of

:54:25.:54:36.

what it was in 2011. -- 6.8. Good morning. How can I help. But --

:54:37.:54:42.

Janus was out of work after a spell caring for her mother but works in a

:54:43.:54:46.

travel centre. I feel valued. Never been out of work. Being out of work,

:54:47.:54:52.

you lose a little bit of confidence. And feel that you are not

:54:53.:54:57.

appreciated. As much. But now I'm in employment, I feel a different

:54:58.:55:01.

person. The firm says it is employing more people now than at

:55:02.:55:03.

any point in its history. When I any point in its history. When I

:55:04.:55:07.

joined we had around 80 employees and we now have 140. We had 12 of

:55:08.:55:16.

getting bigger and bigger. Back in getting bigger and bigger. Back in

:55:17.:55:21.

the north-east the governments been keen to trumpet its record.

:55:22.:55:24.

Unemployment in the north-east has come down quite a lot over the years

:55:25.:55:27.

and that's a welcome thing, the and that's a welcome thing, the

:55:28.:55:30.

investment that come into the region is something we all welcome. The

:55:31.:55:34.

As is renewable energy and other As is renewable energy and other

:55:35.:55:40.

sectors. Very encouraged by all of those things. Critics aren't

:55:41.:55:44.

impressed, saying underemployment is still a big problem. We are a

:55:45.:55:48.

blackspot for example in terms of zero or contracts, in terms of

:55:49.:55:53.

underemployment, people want to work more hours but can't. If you scratch

:55:54.:55:58.

the surface you see we have lots and lots of people working now in

:55:59.:56:04.

poverty. The labour market now is certainly different from what it

:56:05.:56:08.

was. Whether that's for good or ill, remains for debate.

:56:09.:56:14.

Stephen Hughes, labour constantly making claims the jobs of zero or as

:56:15.:56:19.

contracts, Andre plummet, part-time, few concrete stats to back it up,

:56:20.:56:21.

since 2012, unemployment started since 2012, unemployment started

:56:22.:56:25.

dropping, the number of part-time against full-time jobs has stayed

:56:26.:56:31.

the same. Zero hours contracts, that's increased radically over the

:56:32.:56:34.

region in that time period. Ian is right. We have a lot of low quality,

:56:35.:56:39.

zero our contracts, and increase... How many? The last count, you can

:56:40.:56:46.

find on Google, late 2015, 30,000 in the region, it's more than that. The

:56:47.:56:50.

Office of National Statistics reckons over the same period the

:56:51.:56:57.

zero hours contracts tripled, but there is a lot of underemployment.

:56:58.:57:01.

Talk to the people that you know, you mix with, that is certainly the

:57:02.:57:06.

case in Darlington, in the south of County Durham. Let's put this to

:57:07.:57:12.

John Stephenson. Those figures are stark about zero our contracts

:57:13.:57:16.

trebling... Not the sign of a great job market? Employment is higher now

:57:17.:57:22.

than it's ever been, employment since 2007, the lost. Here the

:57:23.:57:29.

economy is working. Cumbria is a good example in many respects,

:57:30.:57:31.

virtually full implement in Carlisle. You also talk to people

:57:32.:57:36.

who don't feel satisfied with the amount of money they're getting,

:57:37.:57:38.

don't feel satisfied about the kind of job... There are jobs available,

:57:39.:57:44.

if you come to my skills there, the employers are calling out for people

:57:45.:57:49.

to come to the skills because they are looking for people to employ.

:57:50.:57:52.

Quite clearly, there is a demand therefore people. It's the worker

:57:53.:57:56.

spotted there are not paid enough? Or if the job isn't good enough? The

:57:57.:58:01.

economy and creating jobs is doing well in Cumbria and I think that's a

:58:02.:58:05.

success. What we want to do is killing up people so they can get

:58:06.:58:09.

better paid jobs and improve their standards of living, we've got to

:58:10.:58:12.

recognise unemployment is very low and employment is very high. That's

:58:13.:58:18.

a success. You are looking churlish, that's the danger. Unemployment is

:58:19.:58:21.

twice as high in the north-east as the Saudis but I'll go back to

:58:22.:58:27.

something I said. About Skilling. -- skilling up people. I mentioned

:58:28.:58:31.

earlier, in Darlington almost a quarter of the working population

:58:32.:58:34.

have no formal qualifications, by 2020 for its estimated 2% of the

:58:35.:58:40.

workforce will have no formal qualifications. There is a time bomb

:58:41.:58:43.

ticking. Unless we reinvest in skills, those are going to become

:58:44.:58:48.

the long-term unemployed. The unemployed and statistics of the

:58:49.:58:50.

future. Could I say we accept that we must scale up the youth and

:58:51.:58:55.

people for the future but look at Cumbria, we have a new problem, we

:58:56.:59:01.

will actually have a shortage of workers. We need to encourage people

:59:02.:59:04.

to come across to Cumbria to seek jobs that are going to be there.

:59:05.:59:10.

Ideally from Europe? If you are saying an opponent is so high, the

:59:11.:59:14.

north-east may gravitate to Cumbria... The jobs will be there.

:59:15.:59:17.

There are problems that Stephen Hughes talks about. Statistics can

:59:18.:59:22.

mask them. Sunderland is a big city in the north-east, one in four of

:59:23.:59:26.

the young people are unemployed. That's not acceptable. I agree, we

:59:27.:59:31.

want to do things to improve the economy there but we have to seize

:59:32.:59:34.

the opportunities, jobs are being created and I go back to, great.

:59:35.:59:39.

There is going to be a substantial number of new jobs created, we've

:59:40.:59:41.

got to encourage people to come across and take them. Many of them

:59:42.:59:48.

will be well paid. Will they be the people with the skills you are

:59:49.:59:51.

looking for? That's something we've got to try and make sure that we

:59:52.:59:54.

have this killed opportunities but at the same token I'm sure there are

:59:55.:59:58.

people in the north-east who are skilled, would like a job, why don't

:59:59.:00:03.

they come to Cumbria? Stephen and John, thank you. That's about it for

:00:04.:00:07.

this week, back same time, same place next Sunday. But you can join

:00:08.:00:09.

me. For now, back have to do this. Thank you to you

:00:10.:00:11.

both. What exactly is the government's

:00:12.:00:14.

industrial strategy? Will ministers lose their supreme

:00:15.:00:24.

court battle over Brexit, and, Well, tomorrow Theresa May

:00:25.:00:28.

is launching the government's industrial strategy -

:00:29.:00:40.

and to talk about that we're joined by the Business Minister,

:00:41.:00:43.

Margot James - welcome to the show. When you look at what has already

:00:44.:00:55.

been released in advance of the Prime Minister's statement, it was

:00:56.:01:02.

embargoed for last night, it's not really an industrial strategy, it's

:01:03.:01:06.

just another skills strategy, of which we have had about six since

:01:07.:01:09.

the war, and our skills training is among the worst in Western Europe?

:01:10.:01:17.

There will be plenty more to be announced tomorrow in what is really

:01:18.:01:22.

a discussion document in the preparation of an industrial

:01:23.:01:25.

strategy which we intend to launch properly later in the year. Let's

:01:26.:01:32.

look at skills. You are allocating 117 of funding to establish

:01:33.:01:40.

institutes of technology. How many? The exact number is to be agreed,

:01:41.:01:44.

but the spend is there, and it will be on top of what we are doing to

:01:45.:01:49.

the university, technical colleges... How many were lit bio

:01:50.:01:53.

create? We don't know exactly, but we want to put them in areas where

:01:54.:02:00.

young people are performing under the national average. But if you

:02:01.:02:06.

don't know how many, what is the basis of 170 million? That is the

:02:07.:02:10.

amount the Treasury have released. The something that is very

:02:11.:02:14.

important, we are agreed we need to devote more resources to vocational

:02:15.:02:20.

training and get it on a par with academic qualifications. I looked on

:02:21.:02:26.

the website of my old university, the University of Glasgow, the

:02:27.:02:30.

Russell group universities. Its spending budget every year is over

:02:31.:02:36.

600 million. That's one University. And yet you have a mere 170 million

:02:37.:02:44.

foreign unspecified number of institutes of technology. It hasn't

:02:45.:02:49.

got equality with the academics? You have to remember that just as you

:02:50.:02:55.

have quoted figures from Glasgow University there are further

:02:56.:02:57.

education colleges all over the country. The government is already

:02:58.:03:05.

spending on 16 to 19-year-olds. But also, we are going to be adding...

:03:06.:03:12.

This is new money that is all to the good, because we are already

:03:13.:03:18.

spending a lot. We have already created 2 million more apprentices

:03:19.:03:21.

since 2010. That many are not in what we would call the stem skills,

:03:22.:03:27.

and a lot come nowhere near what the Dutch, Germans and Austrians would

:03:28.:03:32.

have. I'm not clear how another 170 million would do. You said it is

:03:33.:03:37.

more than skills. In what way is this industrial strategy different

:03:38.:03:42.

from what Mr Cameron and Mr Osborne did before? It's different because

:03:43.:03:52.

it is involving every single government department, and bringing

:03:53.:03:53.

together everything that government does in a bid to make Britain more

:03:54.:03:56.

competitive as it disengages from the European Union. That is what the

:03:57.:04:03.

last Labour government did. They will much more targeted

:04:04.:04:07.

interventions. Under the Labour government, the auto industry got

:04:08.:04:11.

some benefit. A few more sectors were broached under the coalition

:04:12.:04:16.

government. This is all about communities all over the country,

:04:17.:04:20.

some of whom have fallen behind in terms of wage growth and good jobs.

:04:21.:04:26.

The Prime Minister has already announced 2 billion as a research

:04:27.:04:33.

and development priority in specific technologies, robotics, artificial

:04:34.:04:36.

intelligence, medical technology, satellites... So you are doing what

:04:37.:04:42.

has been done before. There is nothing new about this. Wait until

:04:43.:04:47.

tomorrow, because there will be some new strands emerging. It is the

:04:48.:04:51.

beginning of the dialogue with industry and with workers, and the

:04:52.:04:56.

responses will be invited up until April. That will inform a wider

:04:57.:05:00.

strategy that goes beyond skills. I have moved on to beyond them. I'm

:05:01.:05:07.

slightly puzzled as to how the government knows where to invest in

:05:08.:05:12.

robotics, when it can't even provide the NHS with a decent IT system.

:05:13.:05:18.

Discuss. I have to say I find it bizarre that the government is

:05:19.:05:21.

making an announcement about an amount of money and don't know where

:05:22.:05:27.

it's going. This is typical of all governments over all political

:05:28.:05:32.

shoes, which is total disregard for technical education, so different

:05:33.:05:37.

from Germany, who actually invest in the technological side. Germany has

:05:38.:05:44.

a long history. We want to emulate some of the best of what German

:05:45.:05:51.

companies do. Siemens sponsor primary schools, for example. We

:05:52.:05:55.

want to get a dialogue on with business. We don't want to decide

:05:56.:06:01.

where this money is going. By the way, it was 4.7 billion that the

:06:02.:06:07.

government has agreed to invest in science and research, which is the

:06:08.:06:11.

most significant increase in decades. Can you remind us what

:06:12.:06:15.

happened in Northern Ireland, when the government invested money in

:06:16.:06:18.

state-of-the-art technology for energy? No one needs to be reminded

:06:19.:06:23.

of that, and that is not what we are doing. We are inviting business and

:06:24.:06:31.

industry to advise where that money is best spent. That's very different

:06:32.:06:37.

from government deciding that a particular technology is for the

:06:38.:06:40.

future. The government's chief scientific adviser has determined

:06:41.:06:47.

that we will invest a huge amount in battery technology, which should

:06:48.:06:52.

benefit the electric car industry, and... This is taxpayers' money. Who

:06:53.:06:59.

gets it? Ultimately, business will get it, but often only when there is

:07:00.:07:03.

a considerable amount of private sector finance also drawn in. But

:07:04.:07:14.

who is held to account? Various government departments at local

:07:15.:07:17.

authorities will hold this list to account. A lot of it is about

:07:18.:07:22.

releasing private capital as well. Thank you very much. This week, the

:07:23.:07:28.

Supreme Court, I think we know the ruling is coming on Tuesday. And the

:07:29.:07:35.

expectation is that the judges will say Parliament will have to vote to

:07:36.:07:40.

trigger. Is this all much ado about nothing? Parliament will vote to

:07:41.:07:44.

trigger, and the government will win in the Lords and the Commons by

:07:45.:07:48.

substantial majorities, and it will be triggered? Completely. We've

:07:49.:07:54.

known that. Parliament is voted. Everyone is pretty confident that

:07:55.:07:57.

the Supreme Court will uphold the High Court's decision and say it has

:07:58.:08:02.

to go to MPs. There will be a bit of toing and froing among MPs on

:08:03.:08:10.

amendments. You heard Diane Abbott's slightly car crash interview there.

:08:11.:08:15.

The Lib Dems may throw something in, but we will trigger Article 50 by

:08:16.:08:23.

the end of March. If it also says that the roll of Edinburgh, Cardiff

:08:24.:08:26.

and Belfast should be picked up, that could complicate matters.

:08:27.:08:32.

Absolutely. That could delay the planned triggering of Article 50

:08:33.:08:37.

before the end of March. Not what they say about the Westminster

:08:38.:08:40.

Parliament, because it is clear that it was. I never understood the

:08:41.:08:45.

furore about that original judgment, because every MP made it clear they

:08:46.:08:50.

wouldn't block it. Even though Diane Abbott was evasive on several

:08:51.:08:54.

fronts, she said they wouldn't block it. You are right, if they give a

:08:55.:09:00.

vote, or give some authorisation for the Scottish Parliament and other

:09:01.:09:05.

devolved assemblies, that might delay the whole sequence. That is

:09:06.:09:08.

the only significant thing to watch out for. Watch out on Tuesday. Mrs

:09:09.:09:15.

May goes to Washington. It will be another movie in the making! I would

:09:16.:09:21.

suggest that she has a tricky line to follow. She has got to be seen to

:09:22.:09:25.

be taking advantage of the fact that there is a very pro-British,

:09:26.:09:30.

pro-Brexit president in the Oval Office, who I am told is prepared to

:09:31.:09:36.

expend political capital on this. But on the other hand, to make sure

:09:37.:09:40.

that she is not what we used to call Mr Blair, George Bush's poodle. It

:09:41.:09:51.

is very difficult, and who would not want to be a fly on the wall in that

:09:52.:09:55.

meeting! I can't think of anyone in the world who would despise Mr Trump

:09:56.:10:00.

more than Mrs May, and for him, he dislikes any woman who does not look

:10:01.:10:04.

like a supermodel, no disrespected Mrs May. Most of it is actually

:10:05.:10:14.

anti-EU, and I think we should capitalise it. Let's get the Queen

:10:15.:10:20.

to earn her money, roll out the red carpet, invite him to dinner, spend

:10:21.:10:27.

the night, what ever we need... Trump at Balmoral! Here is the

:10:28.:10:31.

issue, because the agenda is, as we heard from Ted Malloch earlier, that

:10:32.:10:35.

this is not an administration that has much time for the EU, EU

:10:36.:10:41.

integration or Germany. I think Germany will be the second biggest

:10:42.:10:45.

loser to begin with. They will not even give a date for Angela Merkel

:10:46.:10:50.

to meet the president. This is an opportunity for Mrs May... It is a

:10:51.:10:58.

huge. It could sideline talks of the punishment beating from Germany. The

:10:59.:11:07.

Trump presidency has completely changed the field on Brexit. Along

:11:08.:11:13.

came Donald Trump, and Theresa May has this incredible opportunity

:11:14.:11:17.

here. Not of her making, but she has played her cards well. To an

:11:18.:11:23.

officially be the EU emissary to Washington, to get some sort of

:11:24.:11:28.

broker going. That gives us huge extra leveraged in the Brexit

:11:29.:11:32.

negotiations. People around the world think Germany as a currency

:11:33.:11:37.

manipulator, that it is benefiting from an underpriced euro, hence the

:11:38.:11:41.

huge surplus it runs of America, and they think it is disgraceful that a

:11:42.:11:45.

country that runs a massive budget surplus spends only 1.2% of its GDP

:11:46.:11:51.

on defence, and America runs a massive deficit and needs to spend a

:11:52.:11:57.

lot more. He's going for Germany. And what a massive shift. I think

:11:58.:12:04.

Obama was quite open, in a farewell interview, that he felt closer to

:12:05.:12:07.

Merkel than any other European leader. And Jamie kind of reflected

:12:08.:12:14.

that in our discussion. Yes, that's very interesting discussion. I think

:12:15.:12:20.

she was the last person he spoke to in the White House, Obama. And now

:12:21.:12:24.

you are getting the onslaught from Trump. This Thatcher- Reagan imagery

:12:25.:12:30.

is dangerous, though. Blair was hypnotised by it and was too scared

:12:31.:12:35.

to criticise Bush, because he wanted to be seen in that light, and we

:12:36.:12:41.

know where that led. Cameron similarly with Obama, which

:12:42.:12:44.

presented him with problems, as Obama didn't regard him as his

:12:45.:12:50.

number one pin up in Europe. I would put a note of caution in there about

:12:51.:12:55.

the Thatcher - Reagan parallel. Everything Trump is doing now is

:12:56.:13:01.

different from before, so Mrs May should not have any of these

:13:02.:13:06.

previous relationships in her mind. That is not entirely true. Donald

:13:07.:13:10.

Trump aches to be the new Ronald Reagan. He may be impeached first!

:13:11.:13:18.

He sees her as the new Margaret Thatcher, and that may her leveraged

:13:19.:13:20.

with him. Thank you. We'll be back here at the same time

:13:21.:13:28.

next week, and you can catch up on all the latest political news

:13:29.:13:33.

on the Daily Politics, In the meantime, remember -

:13:34.:13:35.

if it's Sunday, It's just pain,

:13:36.:13:39.

but it doesn't feel like pain, it feels much more violent,

:13:40.:14:17.

dark and exciting. Join Michael Buerk as he explores

:14:18.:14:40.

the dishes fit for kings and queens. When it comes to extravagance, few

:14:41.:14:46.

monarchs can compete with George IV. If that was for breakfast, I dread

:14:47.:14:50.

to think what he had for dinner.

:14:51.:14:54.

Andrew Neil, Richard Moss and guests including shadow home secretary Diane Abbott provide reaction to Theresa May's Brexit speech and look at the inauguration of US president Donald Trump. On the political panel are Julia Hartley-Brewer of talkRadio, Tom Newton Dunn of the Sun and broadcaster and journalist Steve Richards.