23/04/2017 Sunday Politics North East and Cumbria

It's Sunday afternoon - this is the Sunday Politics.

Jeremy Corbyn wants to give everyone in Britain four

extra bank holidays - but is the Labour leader up

to being Prime Minister if he wins the election in just

Theresa May says she wants a stronger hand to deliver Brexit -

how will the Conservatives go about getting the bigger

I'll be asking Party Chairman, Patrick McLoughlin.

And I've been in Paris where voters are going to the polls in first

round of the French Presidential election - what could be the impact

on the EU and Brexit of this most unpredictable of contests?

Here: What does Theresa May's snap election mean for

We'll take a look at what's at stake for the political parties

across the region as voters weigh up their options.

Or feel they may not like it but the Tories

And with me has always ready for the marathon task of covering a snap

general election, even working on bank holidays, the best and

brightest political panel in the business. David Wooding, Polly

Toynbee and Toby Young. So Labour's big announcement this

morning was a crowd pleaser. Four more rainy bank

holidays to enjoy - one for each of the patron saints

of England, Scotland, But Mr Corbyn probably won't be

getting the time off work if he wins And on The Andrew Marr Show this

morning he was asked what he would do as Prime Minister

if the security services asked him to authorise a drone strike

on the leader of Islamic State. What I'd tell them is,

give me the information you've got, tell me how accurate that is,

tell me what you I'm asking you about decisions you

would take as Prime Minister. Can I take you back

to the whole point? Is the objective

to start more strikes that may kill many innocent

people, as has happened? Do you think killing

the leader of Isis would be I think the leader of Isis not

being around would be helpful, and I'm no supporter or defender

in any way of Isis. But I would also argue that

the bombing campaign has killed a of whom were virtually prisoners of

Isis. So you've got to think

about these things. Mr Corbyn earlier. David, is his

reply refreshing damaging? It is damaging. He has clearly been

freaked to the fire already in the first week, there will be lots of

questions on his suitability as a leader and the damage it could cause

to our national security over the weeks ahead and Andrew Marr has cut

straight to the chase here. The other thing, of course, is the

letters of last resort, one of the first duties of a Prime Minister

when he walks into No 10 is to sign these letters on his own, on or --

or on her own in a room, a very lonely moment, to decide whether he

should press the nuclear button and that goes in the Vanguard submarines

and is opened in the event of a strike and he has dodged a question

so many times. One must wonder what he would do that. He has to make

these decisions as Prime Minister. On the Isis point, refreshing or

damaging? It sure is his base, the people who support him, that's the

sort of thing they support info and maybe his tactic is that's all he's

going to get, that is what the polls seem to suggest, in which case they

will be pleased, and say yes, the man is a man for these who doesn't

press buttons and shoot people down. But if you want to win you have to

deal with your own weaknesses and reach out to other people. I think

most people would say that's not somebody who could defend the

country. I wonder if he was being totally honest in saying he would

consider it he would ask for more information. He has previously been

on the record as being against drone strikes in principle, he's

campaigned against them, he wants to abolish drones. I think Andrew Marr

let him off saying it was a drone strike rather than a Navy SEAL or

SAS operation and he had the fact that they could be collateral

damage. We that's not his position because he condemned the

assassination of Osama Bin Laden even though there was no collateral

damage. David is right on the Trident point, he fetched the

question. We heard Niall Griffiths on this very show saying Trident,

the renewal of Trident, would be in the next Labour Party manifesto. It

turns out now we don't know and when he was asked he said that remains to

be seen, his re-opened a can of worms. What he has said about

Trident which was extraordinary was, we will rebuild the submarines but

not have any nukes on them which is expensive and useless. And of course

the Labour Party were forced soon after that interview to put out a

statement saying it is Labour Party policy to renew Trident. So where

are we? Do we know what the party's policy is? It is to renew Trident

but he has started this review which involves looking at it all again. We

know he is a unilateralist to start with but whether he can force this

through is dubious. Does it matter, though, if the party policy is in

favour of Trident, if the leader is not? The potential Prime Minister is

not? They split three ways when they went to vote on it in the Commons.

The party agreed they were pro-Trident and when it came to the

vote they split three ways. I think it's difficult for them, it's always

been a really difficult issue for Labour. The question is whether you

want to seal off your negatives, whether you really want to try and

reach out to people. There are an awful lot of people who will like

what he said, there are an awful lot of people that think we have been

involved in terrible wars, we have wasted a lot of money and blood and

let's just get back from the whole thing, let's retreat from the world

and not try punching above our weight. There is something to be

said for that and it is a reasonable argument. He's been true to himself

on this. I think he is and Polly is right, lots of people will agree

with him, not enough to win a general election, the latest ComRes

poll shows Tories on 50% and Labour on 25 and as my colleague James

Forsyth in the Spectator said if this was a boxing match it would

have been stopped by now by the revelry. We are not stopping, we are

going on. So the political parties have had

to move into election mode Stand by for battle buses,

mail shots and your social media timeline being bombarded

by political propoganda. But none of this comes cheap -

Adam's been doing his sums. Democracy is priceless but those

planes, trains and automobiles used in the last election cost money

and we know exactly how much, thanks to the Electoral

Commission database. The Conservatives flew David Cameron

to every part of the UK in one day on a private plane costing ?29,000,

in-flight meals extra. They shelled out ?1.2 million

for adverts on Facebook. The most expensive item was their

election guru Lynton Crosby. They bought ?2.4 million worth

of advice and research from his firm Labour's biggest expenditure

was on good old-fashioned leaflets, costing ?7.4 million

to print and deliver. Hope they didn't go straight

into the recycling. Cheap for all the

enjoyment it gave us. To turn a normal minibus

into Harriet Harman's pink bus Nick Clegg toured the country doing

all manner of stunts transported although the party got a grand's

discount when it broke down. Ukip's then leader Nigel Farage

was accompanied by bodyguards Nicola Sturgeon's chopper

cost the SNP ?35,450. Plaid Cymru spent just over

?1,000 on media training And the Greens spent ?6,912

promoting their tweets. It adds up to a grand total

for all the parties of ?37,560,039. Jabbing at my calculator that works

out at less than ?1 per voter. Adam Fleming there -

and joining me now is the man responsible for the Conservative

election campaigns - for the locals next month

and the general election in June - Welcome to the programme. The Crown

Prosecution Service is reviewing evidence from 14 police forces that

your party breached election spending rules on multiple occasions

in the last election. What are you going to do differently this time?

Well, the battle buses are part of the National campaign spend. You saw

them just on the shot that you did, all three parties had those battle

buses so that's why we believe they were part of the national spend and

it was declared that way. At least 30 people in your party, MPs and

agents, being investigated because they may not have been right to

include it in the national spend. Are you saying you are going to do

nothing differently this time? You asked me about last time and the way

the position is... Was. I asked you about this time. We will take a

careful count and make sure that everything that we do is within the

law. But as I say, the last election, all three parties had

battle buses. It is your party that above all has been investigated by

14 police forces. You must surely be taking stock of that and working out

how to do some things differently. You are being investigated because

you put stuff on the National Ledger which should have been on the local

constituency ledger. Are you looking at that again? All of the parties

had battle buses and they all put them on their national spend. I

don't think any of the parties put them on the local spend. The other

battle buses were not full of their party activists. Your party stuffed

these battle buses with activists and took them to constituencies.

That's the difference. And I ask again, what is different this time?

Are you going to run the risk of being investigated yet again? We

believe that we fully compliant with the electoral law as it was. What

will happen if one of these, or two or three or four or five of these 30

people, Tory MPs, or agents running campaigns are charged during the

campaign? As I say I believe we properly declared our election

expenses. What happens if they are charged? You asking me a

hypothetical question, the importance of this election is about

who is in Downing Street in seven weeks' time. Let me clarify this,

you maintain that in 2015 you did nothing wrong with how you allocated

the cost and the activities of the battle buses and you would do

exactly the same this time round? What we did at the last election we

believe fully complied with the law. So the battle buses this time,

stocked full of activists, will still be charged to the national

campaign even when they go to local constituencies? Will they? We will

be looking at the way we do it, there is new guidance from the

Electoral Commission out and we will look at that guidance. It is not the

guidance, it is the lawful stop the Electoral Commission said that, if

you look at the report they did on us, they said there was one area

where we had over claimed, over declared, and another area we had

and declared. We haven't worked out what to do

yet, have you? We will get on with the campaign and

start the campaign and I'm looking forward to the campaign.

I'm trying to work out of the campaign is going to be legal or not

because last time it seems it could have been illegal.

I am sure the campaign will be legal.

You started the campaign warning about the prospect of, the coalition

of chaos. Mr Corbyn has ruled out a post-election coalition with the SNP

and so have the Lib Dems so who is going to be in this coalition?

Vince Cable said he was looking towards a possible coalition trying

to stop a Conservative government. Is not the leader of the Lib Dems.

He's an important voice in the Lib Dems. Who will be in it? Let's see

because of the Conservative Party is not re-elected with a strong

majority, what will happen? There will be a coalition stopping us

doing the things we need to do. Who will be in it? It will be a

coalition of the Labour Party, the SNP and the Liberal party. They have

ruled it out. I think they would not rule it out if that was the

situation. Like Theresa May not ruling out an election and then

changing her mind? The things the Prime Minister said were very clear,

once she had served Article 50 there was an opportunity, as we know

today, there is going to be the start of a new government formed in

France and in September we have the German elections. So it was quite

right that we didn't get ourselves boxed into a timetable. That is why

the Prime Minister took the view that they should be a general

election to give her full strength of an electoral mandate when it

comes to those negotiations. What about Mr Corbyn's plan for four new

bank holidays, good idea? I'm not... If we get Corbyn in No 10 Downing St

we will have a permanent bank holiday of the United Kingdom. We

will have fewer bank holidays of most other major nations, most about

major wealthy nations. What about at least one more? Well, look, he's

talked about four bank holidays. Today would be a bank holiday and

next Monday would be a bank holiday and the other week was a bank

holiday too. I don't think it's very well thought out. It sounded more to

me something like you get in school mock elections rather than proper

elections. Your party is the self-styled party of the workers and

you have no plans to give the workers even one extra bank holiday?

What we want to do is ensure Britain is a strong economy and building on

the jobs that we have created since 2010. We were told that by reducing

public expenditure unemployment in this country would go up,

unemployment has gone down and the number of jobs have gone up

substantially. But no more bank holidays? Well, we will make our

manifesto in due course but I don't think four bank holidays held in

April, March and November are very attractive to people. When Ed

Miliband as leader of the Labour Party suggested the government

should control energy prices by capping them, the Conservatives

described that as almost Communist and central planning. Do still take

that view? You'll see what we have to say on energy prices. I didn't

you about that, I asked you if you take the view... The Prime Minister

made a speech at the Conservative Spring conference in which she

outlined her dissatisfaction about people who are kept locked on a

standard tariff and those are the issues we will address in the next

few weeks when the manifesto was published.

Would that be an act of communism? You will need to see what we say

when we set out the policies. It could be. You could put a Communist

act into your manifesto? I don't think you'll find a Communist

manifesto in a Conservative manifesto which will be launched...

You are planning to control prices? We will address what we think is

unfairness in the energy market. Mr Jeremy Corbyn was reluctant this

morning to sanction a drone strike. You heard us talking about it

earlier against the leader of Islamic State if our intelligence

services identified him. What would it achieve? When the Prime Minister

gets certain advice in the national interests, she has to act been that.

We've seen with Theresa May in her time as Home Secretary and Prime

Minister, she's not afraid to take those very difficult decisions. What

we say this morning from Jeremy Corbyn was a his tans, a reluctance.

I don't think that serves the country well. What would it achieve

if we take out the head of Islamic State he's replaced by somebody

else. It brings their organisation into difficulties. It undermines

their organisation. It shows we'll take every measure to undo an

organisation which has organised terrorism in different parts of

Europe, the UK. I think it is absolutely right the Prime Minister

is prepared to take those kind of measures. Jeremy Corbyn said he

wasn't prepared to take that. Because he wasn't sure what it would

achieve. The Obama administration launched hundreds of drone strikes

in various war zones and we in the west are still under attack on a

regular basis. Mr Corbyn's basis was what would it achieve? It would

achieve a safer position for the UK overall. The war on terrorists. But

the Westminster attack, Paris has just been attacked again? There's

been attacks which have been stopped by the intelligence services. We

must do all we can to support them. The question was about drone

strikes. Whether it is drone strikes or other action, we have to be

prepared to act. Let's move on to Brexit. It is the major reason the

Prime Minister's called the election? Not the only within but

the main reason? It is one of the reasons. Now we start the two-year

negotiations and then a year afterwards. Also the way in which

certain people said they would try to use in the House of Lords or

House of Commons to prevent us making progress. I think you'll put

in your manifesto, it is the Government's policy, the Brexit

negotiating position will be no more freedom of movement. Leave the

single market and no longer under the jurisdiction Europe. You expect

every Tory MP to fight on that manifesto. What will you do with Ken

Clarke and Anna? They will have fought on their manifesto. They will

understand the Prime Minister has the authority of the ballot box

behind them. Will they fight the election on these positions? I'm

sure they'll fight the election supporting the election of a

Conservative Government and it's manifesto will quite clearly set

out... You know they're against these positions. Ken Clarke has a

prod tradition of expressing a certain view. Overall, the party's

manifesto, it is not just individuals like Ken Clarke, it is

what happens as far as the House of Lords are concerned, people said

they'd use the House of Lords to prevent certain measures. You're the

party chairman, will it be possible for people like Ken Clarke to fight

this election under the Conservative ticket without sub describing to all

-- subscribing to all of these Brexit conditions? Ken Clarke will

fight as Conservative candidates. That wasn't my question. I know

that. Will they be allowed to fight it on their own ticket and not

subscribe to what is in your manifesto? The manifesto will be

what the Conservative Party fights the General Election on. There will

always be cases where people have had different views on different

parts of the manifesto. That will be the guiding principles for the

party. Philip Hammond says your election promises in 2015, in your

manifesto not to raise taxes tied his hands when it came to managing

the economy. Do you agree with him? No. The simple fact is we have to do

the best things for the economy. We'll set out in our manifesto in a

few weeks' time, what the policies will be for the next Parliament. Can

I clarify, you don't agree with your Chancellor? What Philip was saying

was some of the areas we wants to address as Chancellor, what the

party will do, it will set out all the issues we're fighting on. It

will set out clearly the choice we have in this country. That's the

important thing. Let me put the question to you again. Philip

Hammond said this week your election promise in 2015 not to raise taxes

had tied his hands when it came to managing the economy. I ask you, do

you agree with him? You said no. Philip expressed his view as to what

he would like. What I'm saying is in a few weeks' time we'll set the

manifesto which will set the policies, agreed with the the

Cabinet. He's Chancellor. Doesn't he determine what the economic part of

the manifesto is? We'll talk about that in due course. Will you have a

lock on the taxes that you locked in 2015 on income tax, VAT, national

insurance? That will be decided. You'll see that when we publish the

manifesto in a few weeks' time. Will you rule out the possibility taxes

may have to rise under a future Conservative Party? Conservative

Government. We've taken four million people out of tax. Now, on average,

people are paying ?1200 less tax than they were on the same salaries

in 2010. I'm very provide of that. I can assure you, the Conservative

Party will want to see taxes reduced. It is the Labour Party

which will put up taxes. We have the evidence where this he did so.

Council tax went up by over 100%. You haven't reduced the tax burden

as a percentage of the GDP is now going to reach its highest level

since the mid-180s which was when Conservatives were in power. The tax

burden in this country under your Government is rising? We've more

people paying taxes which is something, because we've a growing

economy and more people... What about the tax band? You said you

reduced the tax burden on your own Government's figures is rising? We

have reduced the tax burden. The threshold at which people start

paying. These are tax rates not the tax burden. It is rising. The tax

rates have been reduced. You said tax burden. Perhaps I misspoke. Tax

rates have been reduced. We'll leave it there. No doubt we'll speak again

between now and June Is France now about to make it

a hat-trick of shocks The prospect terrifies

the governing elite in Paris. But they're no less scared

in Brussels and Berlin, given what it could mean

for the whole EU project, never mind the huge potential impact

on our own Brexit negotiations. 11 candidates are contesting

the first round of the presidential Only the top two will go forward

to the run-off on May 7th. For the first time since General De

Gaulle created the fifth Republic in 1958, it's perfectly possible that

no candidate from the ruling parties of the centre-left or the

centre-right will even make it The election has been dominated by

the hard right in the shape of the who's never been elected

to anything and only started his own party

a few months ago. And the far left in the form

of Jean-Luc Melenchon, a former Trotskyite who has surged

in the final weeks of the campaign. The only candidate left from the

traditional governing parties is the centre-right's

Francois Fillon and he's been struggling to stay in

the race ever since it was revealed that his Welsh wife was being paid

at generous public expense for a job I've just come across

this magazine cover and it kind of sums up the mood

of the French people. It's got the five main candidates

for President here but it calls them the biggest liar, the biggest cheat,

the biggest traitor, the most paranoid, the biggest demagogue,

and it says they are the winners The four leading candidates,

Le Pen, Melenchon, Macron and Fillon, or in with a chance

of making it to the second round. Only a couple of points separates

them in the polls, Frankly, no one has a clue what's

going to happen. Of the four, there is a feeling that

two of them may be President But the two of them may not find

themselves in the second round. Somebody said to me that the man or

woman on the Paris Metro has as much a chance of knowing

who will win as the greatest experts Because the more expert you are

the more you may be wrong. The country has largely

stagnated for over a decade. One in ten are unemployed,

one in four if you are unlucky Like Britain in the '70s there is

the pervasive stench There are three keywords that come

to mind. Anger, anger at the elite, and in

particular the political elite. And an element of

nostalgia for the past. These three words were decisive

in the Brexit referendum. They are decisive in

the French election. Identity and security has been

as important in this election France is a proud nation, it worries

about its future in Europe It seems bereft of ideas about how

to deal with its largely Muslim migrant population, huge chunks of

which are increasingly divorced It is quite simply exhausted by

the never-ending Islamist terrorist attacks, the latest only days before

voting in the iconic heart of this If Fillon or Macron emerge

victorious then there will be continuity of sorts, though Fillon

will struggle to implement his Thatcherite agenda and Macron will

not be able to count on the support of the French parliament, the

National Assembly, for his reforms. But if it's Le Pen or Jean-Luc

Melenchon then all bets are off. Both are hardline French

nationalists, anti the euro, anti the European Union, anti-fiscal

discipline, anti the market, Either in the Elysee Palace

would represent an existential Brexit would simply become

a sideshow, the negotiations could just peter out as Brussels

and Berlin had bigger fish to fry. We're joined now from

Paris by the journalist 8th Welcome to the programme.

Overshadowing the voting today was yet another appalling terrorist

attack in Paris on Thursday night. Do we have any indications of how

that's playing into the election? That initially people thought this

has been almost foiled in that the police were there as a ramp up. One

policeman was killed. But the terrorist did not spray the crowd

with bullets. It was seen as not having much of an effect on the

election. This has changed. We now know the policeman who was killed, a

young man about to the promoted, he was at the Bataclan the night of the

terror attack. He was a fighter for LGBT rights. The fact he was

promoted, happy within his job, he has this fresh face. Sudden, he's

one of us. It took perhaps 48 hours for the French to process this. But

now they're angry and this may actually change the game, at least

at the margins. To whose advantage? I would say the two who might

benefit from this are Marine Le Pen, she's been absolutely

anti-immigration, anti-anything. And made no bones about it as she

immediately made rather strange announcement in which she'd said if

she'd been president none of the terror attacks which happened in

France would have happened. Francois Fillon has written a book two years

ago called Combating Islamic Terrorism he's has an organised plan

in his manifesto. Unlike Emmanuel Macron who stumbled when he was

asked the evening this happened what he thought, he said, I can't dream

up an anti-terror programme overnight. The question, of course,

that arrows was this is not the sort of thing that's just happened

overnight. It's been unfortunately the fate of France for many years.

Let me ask you this finally, what ever the outcome on May 7th in the

second round, who ever wins, would it be fair to say French politics

will never be the same again? Yes. Absolutely it's a very strange

thing. People have no become really excited about this. You cannot go

anywhere without people discussing heatedly this election. The anger

that was described is very accurate. Very true. There was this feeling as

for the Brexit voters and the Trump voters, vast parts of the people

were being talked down to by people who despised them. This has to

change. If it doesn't change, we cannot predict what the future will

be. We'll know the results or at least the ex-the Poll London time

tonight at 8.00pm. Thank for joining us from the glorious heart of your

city. Now, the Green Party currently has

one MP and they'll be contesting many more seats in June

as well as hoping to increase their presence on councils in

the local elections on 4th May. Launching their campaign

on Thursday, co-leader Caroline Lucas made

a pitch to younger voters. When it comes to young

people they've been But one crucial way they've been

betrayed is by what this generation and this government and the previous

ones have been doing when it comes We know we had the hottest year

on record last year, you know, you almost think what else does

the environment need to be doing All the signs are there

and it is young people who are going to be bearing

the brunt of a wrecked environment and that's why it's so important

that when we come to making that pitch to, yes, the country at large

but to young people in particular, I think climate change,

the environment, looking after our precious resources,

has to be up there. And I'm joined now by the Green

MEP, Molly Scott Cato. Welcome back to the programme.

Promised to scrap university tuition fees, increase NHS funding, rollback

cuts to local councils spending, how much would that cost and how would

you pay for it? Like the other parties we haven't got a costed

manifesto yet, it's only a few days since the election was announced so

I will come back and explain the figures. You don't know? Like every

party we have not produced accosted manifesto yet, we produced one last

time but public spending figures have changed so we're not in a

position to do that but we will be in a week or so. What taxes would

you like to consider raising? We would consider having higher taxes

for the better off in society. I think we need to increase the amount

of tax wealthier people pay. How do you define better off? I'm not

entirely clear what the precise number would be but I think 100,000

people would pay a bit more, 150,000 quite considerably more but the real

focus needs to be on companies avoiding paying taxes. I work on

that a lot in my role in the European Parliament, we see an

enormous amount of tax avoidance by companies moving profits from

country to country and we need European corporation to make that

successful. It has not made much difference yet. We have made lots of

changes. Google turned over $1 billion and only paid 25 million in

taxes last year. There was a significant fine introduced by the

competition commission on Apple and in the case of Google we must change

the laws so that people cannot move profits from country to country.

Everybody wants to do it. But you couldn't face a big spending

programme on the ability to do that. You'd have to increase other taxes.

If you look at the cost of free student tuition, tuition fees and

also maintenance grants to students, that would come in at about 10

billion a year. One way of paying for that would be to remove the

upper threshold on National Insurance, bringing in 20 billion a

year, that's the order of magnitude we are talking about. It is not

vast, and some of the proposals we have... That would be an increase on

the better of tax? National Insurance on people earning...

People earning above 42,000. You would have another 10% tax above

42,000? I can't remember exactly how much the National Insurance rate

changes by. But in government figures it would be 28 billion

raised. I think it is up to 45, a bit more you pay a marginal rate of

40%, you would have them pay a marginal rate of over 50%? We would

put the National Insurance rate on higher incomes the same as it is on

lower incomes. If you are a school head of an English department on 50,

60,000 a year you would face a marginal rate under U of over 50%?

It is not useful to do this as a mental maths exercise but if you

look at other proposals would could have a landlord licensing system,

longer term leases on properties, so young people particularly, but also

older people who rent, could have more security which needn't cost

anything. We could insist on landlords paying for that. The

mental arithmetic seems clear but we will come back to that. How is the

Progressive Alliance coming? It is going well, I have heard of a lot of

interest at local level. Winterset this in contest, context, lots of

progressives are concerned about the crisis in public services, prisons,

social care system, and also about the Tories' hard extreme Brexit they

are threatening. You want the left to come together? Theresa May has

given us opportunity, she has taken a risk because she has problems with

backbenchers, she doesn't think she can get through Brexit with a small

majority so there is an opportunity and we are saying progressives must

come together to corporate, Conservatives are effective at using

the first-past-the-post system and we have to become effective as well.

Do you accept this Progressive Alliance cannot become the

government and Mr Corbyn is the Prime Minister? How could it happen

otherwise? I think that is a secondary question. For me the

primary question is who do people choose to vote for? Aluminium

government afterwards comes after the election. In most countries that

is the case. I understand that but we have the system we have and you

accept this Progressive Alliance cannot be in power and thus mystical

Burmese Prime Minister? Personally I think Mr Corbyn is less of a threat

to the country than Theresa May, she has shown herself to be an

authoritarian leader and she has said she doesn't want to have

dissidents, which I would say is reasonable opposition, and what we

are suggesting at the moment is there is a way of avoiding that very

hard Brexit and damage to public services. You'd be happy to pay the

price of having Mr Corbyn as Prime Minister? I do not see that as a

price. People have the choice of Jeremy Corbyn or Theresa May as

Prime Minister, that's the system that works. You would prefer Mr

Corbyn? I would but votes are translated into seats and the

Progressive Alliance is a step towards that.

It's just gone 3:50pm, you're watching the Sunday Politics.

We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, Wales

and Northern Ireland who leave us now.

Coming up here in 20 minutes, the Week Ahead.

Hello, and a warm welcome to your local part of the show.

This week, what else but the general election?

Theresa May's decision to call a snap poll has left many voters,

We'll all have to endure more electioneering,

But could this poll change the political landscape

And, as if one big election wasn't enough, we'll also take a look

at whether local elections in our region on May 4th will give

And with me in a crowded studio to discuss all that

are Anne-Marie Trevelyan, the Conservative MP for Berwick,

Workington Labour MP Sue Hayman, Jonathan Arnott, UKIP's North East

MEP, and, yes you can yell house now, we also have Sunderland Lib Dem

Well, at the start of this week we were wondering what we might talk

Now, of course, we're having to pack it all in.

So on June 8th, or just after, we'll have a clearer picture of how

the political geography of our region has been affected

Sue Hayman, as Theresa May made her announcement, what was your feeling?

I said that I welcomed it because now voters have got an opportunity

to vote for a Labour government that will stand up for ordinary people,

shout out for everybody in this country to have a proper opposition

against a Tory government that really has been failing working

people. Do you think all the parties are as enthusiastic as you say you

are? We get into elections to fight them to wind and that is what we

will do. Anne-Marie Trevelyan, any vertical party would be tempted, it

would be pointers to say you wouldn't be, but let's not pretend

this is about the national interest. This is about the Conservatives

sensing Labour blood. The Prime Minister has been clear that there

is a political dimensional, and despite the fixed in Parliament act,

it shows Labour have come forward so that when there is a need to get the

clarity from the electorate, and that is what the Prime Minister

wants. She also wants a huge Conservative majority. If that is

what the electorate choose to give her so she can move forward with

Brexit with real clarity and that support the height, that would be

fantastic. Niall Hodson, even how about 2015 was for you in this

region, I assume you want a chance to bounce back from what was a near

death experience. We are straight out of the blocks, we have all our

candidates in place, we are raring to go and we have been out on the

campaign trail this weekend. It is all systems go. Do you sense you

have been forgiven for being in coalition with the Conservatives?

Time has moved on so quickly since then, so much has happened, it is

almost in relevant. There are completely different issues on the

table. It is looking at a situation now where the noble Democrats could

take a great deal of seats from the Tories and we are only party in a

position to do so. Jonathan after it -- Jonathan Arnott, the Conservative

government is delivering potentially the kind of Brexit that your voters

would want. It could not have come at a worse time for the party, could

it? I am a Democrat, I believe in elections. I want the people to have

as much of a say as possible. Of course there are questions of trust.

When a Prime Minister tells you time and time again they will not be a

snap election and then calls one, that is the kind of politics that

people don't want. But I think when you look at the areas in which Ukip

are doing well in, Ukip are on the up, and I think they are still on

the up in those areas. You know, I think if you believe in democracy,

then actually having an election is never going to be a bad thing. Apart

from that point I made, Theresa May saying there was not going to be won

and then doing it, that does not go down well. We will see.

Just after Jimmy Yates will have a clear idea of how our medical

geography has been affected in our region. The election could be a

bruising one for Labour. So could some Labour seats fall

to the Conservatives? And will UKIP break

through or break apart? Luke Walton has been

to a key battleground in Teesside where Labour faces

a particularly fierce contest. Market day in Guisborough,

the town has been trading for centuries and is also a place

where political control has been It is part of a constituency

that has been labour for the past 20 years,

but being conservative before them. And there's mixed opinions

about going to the ballot box again. You get sick of them

because they promise you the earth I don't welcome it,

but I think it will be a good Why, because it will

decide some things? I think it will, people get sick

of all the elections and everything but at the end of the day,

if it brings the country together, The Conservative lead in the polls

means Labour have faces a hard sell in this campaign,

and in this constituency, it will have to do it

without the sitting MP Tom He announced this week

he is standing down, due to what he says are irreconcilable

differences with Jeremy Corbyn. And he is not the only one

with doubts about the Labour leader. You have only got to look at

Tom Blenkinsop who is not standing. Marjorie has been a Labour voter

for more than 50 years. Like I say, we have been Labour

all our lives, but Jeremy Corbyn, when I watch on television,

he irritates me. But for businessman Abdul,

the Labour leader's anti-establishment style

is a positive. I personally think he is a breath

of fresh air for politics. He is honest, straightforward,

a regular guy. The other establishment,

it is all a bit too complex and too Pitching the right product,

whether yellow, red or blue is important for political parties

as it is for market traders. For Theresa May, the promise

is strong Brexit. For some of her opponents,

a break with austerity. So what is the issue that will seal

the deal with voters? The EU is the most important

at the present moment. A strong government is going to get

the country the best deal possible. Working people get tax

taken off them a lot I think the whole

situation is wrong. So you think working

people need a better The marginals being defended

by Labour include Hartlepool, With Workington also

potentially vulnerable. Battleground seats being defended

by the Conservatives include Copeland, Carlisle

and Stockton South. In a region long a Labour

stronghold, it is the party The Labour Party is still

across the region in a strong position in most seats and is likely

to win most seats, but they are being more strongly

challenged in more places than they have been

in living memory. but elsewhere it is the colours

in Middlesbrough South, but elsewhere it is a different

party colours of Ukip and the Lib Dems which are adding

to an unpredictable Less than seven weeks before

voters take their pick. The Conservatives took your

neighbouring constituency of Copland. This election is going to

be about limiting losses rather than about really trying to get into

government, isn't it? The only poll that matter is what it will happen

on May the 4th in the local elections and in the General

Election on June the 8th. Theresa May once this election to be just

about Brexit, but it won't be. To me that is a smoke screen because they

are trying to hide the huge cuts that have been made to public

services which affect the most vulnerable people in society the

most. There is so much more to this collection that people will be

looking at. The pulse can be wrong, but you are 20 points behind in the

polls which would suggest some of these seeds you could almost write

off. Your seat would go Conservative, are you worried about

it? Well, polling does not necessarily mean what a result is

going to be. I am going to fight hard for my seat, I have worked hard

since I was elected two years ago. You should not be in that position

where you should have two defend your seat, you should be trying to

win Stockton South, Carlisle, but the reality is you will be defending

your seat in Cumbria are not looking to win any others. This election is

about choice. For a Labour government it will stand up for

working people, and a Tory government that has failed. Well you

will not address directly the point. Anne-Marie Trevelyan, you one last

time with a good majority, but the Lib Dems may be thinking you can

harness all the remaining voters in your constituency. I got in in 2015

and have worked hard, I have secured funding to bring new investment into

Eric and another of practical investment issues, so I hope the

local electorate will give me the chance to continue working hard.

Tony Blair today said he believes anyone who voted to remain should

look at me at who is standing and not vote on an MP who will vote on

the Brexit deal and just wave it through. That is you, isn't it? Tony

Blair is entitled to encourage... But you are not going to question

the Brexit deal, are you? I believe that we should be leaving the EU,

which we will now do. I believe we need to take back our own laws,

leave the single market, so we are no longer under the jurisdiction of

the European Court of Justice. Brexit to me means having control of

our laws and our borders. That is what the Prime Minister is heading

towards. Jonathan Arnott, if you are honest, one seat is going to

interest you, which is Hartlepool. The rest of them, you might as well

forget. I think we will do well in Hartlepool, of course, but remember

that in 11 of the constituencies across the region Ukip other party

in second place. It does beg the question, if Labour have a huge

meltdown, then we could be the beneficiaries. It would be foolhardy

to put all our eggs in one basket. Was 2015 the high watermark? I don't

dispute Hartlepool is a target for you, but the rest of them, you will

just make waves. In 11 of those we are the party in second place, and

that does make a big difference. Our number one target in this region is

going to be the seat that we can win. We don't know who the candidate

is going to be yet, there will be a hustings on Wednesday night. I may

or may not be there. I am not committing to anything live on-air.

We have got some great people. Niall Hodson, the problem is, your party

is fighting a battle here because six out of ten voters in the

north-east backed Brexit in the referendum, and you are going to be

the party saying you will stop it. Which means four out of ten didn't.

Sue is right to say this is not just about back said. We are potentially

giving the reins to an extremely right-wing Tory government and

giving them free rein if they get such a large majority to do whatever

they like. That comes down to affecting our welfare state, the

NHS, local councils. It is a serious matter beyond Brexit. I think it

suits Theresa May to have this as a Brexit election. But the danger is

that you harvest some of the Remain voters, hand the victory to a

pro-Brexit Conservative. If you want to stop exit in this region, you

vote Labour. That is rubbish. You need to vote Liberal Democrat. We

heard earlier this week, an MP saying this is an election Labour

can't win. The Liberal Democrats do expect to win seat and we need them

in order to percent opposition to in order to percent opposition to

the Tories. Helen Goodman said this election is not going to be about

who is Prime Minister or who is in government. It strikes me as

something a lot of Labour MPs might do, to say this is a personal vote

for me, your neighbour John Woodcock has already said he will not support

Jeremy Corbyn. That is a bizarre message to go into this election

with, isn't it? I am going into this election to win my seat again, and

government because that is what we government because that is what we

get into elections to do. We do welcome Jeremy Corbyn with open arms

to your constituency? I will have to wait and see if he wants to come all

this way up to the west Cumbria. I am happy to welcome anyone who wants

to support me in this election. Will you put on your leaflet that you

would like him to be the next by Minister? We are looking at what our

leaflets will say at the moment, I can't say what will be on our

leaflet and what won't be. There was a dispute about whether he is a

liability on the doorstep, so was he a liability in a constituency like

West Cumbria where the nuclear industry is so important? Jeremy

Corbyn came up to Copeland, as did many other frontbenchers and what

are we hard. It was a disappointing result, I cannot deny that.

Anne-Marie Trevelyan, if Labour does manage to shift the election agenda

away from Brexit, let's talk about the state of the health service,

school funding, the fact that we might create jobs but pay has gone

down, there could be more difficulties for your party. What

worries me most is about issues regarding the defence of the nation

and the fact that Jeremy Corbyn still can't decide how he would look

after and use our Armed Forces. That sort of chaotic leadership is

terrifying, and therefore there is... What about the NHS? We have a

lot more nurses in the NHS than we had two years ago. We are moving in

the right direction. We are getting older, complex medical needs will

grow and we will need to increase the number of medical students

coming into the system, but we are continually growing that bill. These

are issues we must continue to talk about.

Well, amidst all the excitement about the general election,

it's easy to forget that there are also important local polls

But frankly we aren't going to let you forget.

But given this week's events, will they just be a barometer of how

the General Election might go or will local issues be to the fore.

Here's David Macmillan with a round-up of what's happening

where, and what's at stake via the medium of ice cream.

The red one, the blue one, the purple, orange or green one.

It is a choice we will be making over the next two months.

The local elections are always seen as an indicator of how the parties

are doing nationally, but it is rare to have it in such

sharp focus as it will be this year with the General Election

They will tell us whether this northern Labour heartland

is seriously flirting with the Conservatives.

We have flirted with the switch from Labour to something else,

we have elected monkeys, are we going to be prepared to move

Here in County Durham, Labour are defending a big majority.

In North Yorkshire, the Conservatives have

Labour have run a minority administration in Northumberland,

and in Cumbria they have been in coalition with

There are two mayoral elections as well, in Labour

held North Tyneside, and the new Tees Valley Metro Mayor.

So what issues are on people's minds in County Durham as they prepare

There is homelessness that needs tackling.

The facilities are getting closed or undermined.

And the dominant issue in recent years has been austerity.

They are going to be judged on the very, very difficult

decisions they have made about cutting wages

for members of staff, closing very popular services,

libraries, leisure centres, so people are going to be making

that sort of local judgment on how well the councils have responded

There's an array of delicious things to choose from here

Whoever is leading our councils on May 5th will hope they have more

palatable choices to make over the next four years than local

authorities have faced over the last four.

Anne-Marie Trevelyan, these council elections are being fought in the

context of years of budget cuts, everyone accepts that, but

particularly the budget cuts have been worse here, and people will be

entitled to say it is a Conservative government that has ensured that

north-east councils have suffered. We have changed the way funding is

going, so business rates are coming to councils, and councils have been

asked to look at doing a cover services, so Northumberland county

council and so on are doing more at office services using taxpayers

money as efficiently as possible. The last four years have been a tale

of reduced budgets and councils have been forced into difficult

decisions, and they come from cuts that have come from your government.

I am afraid that across-the-board there were needs to make but cross

the board. There is a question of raising business rates, and that is

improving because the system in place is better and encourages the

council to support business. The council is more proactive than

before, the council is supporting the industry because they know they

will seek money coming in. And there is an increase of the social care

budget will stop. This will be another tough election for you, Sue

Hayman potentially, because of those budget funding cuts have come from

above are haps, Labour will get the blame for individual decisions

because the perception is they could have done something different. In

Cumbria, the Labour Party is in coalition with the Lib Dems, and we

have had huge cuts to the local government and spending budgets in

Cumbria. Anne-Marie Trevelyan talked about business rates, and that will

be all we will be relying on seeing because the government is farming

out support to local councils. Funding used to be done by need. You

could apply for what you needed. Did you accept that Labour must take the

blame for some of the decisions that have been taken in cutting services?

The Labour Party and the Lib Dems worked together, they work a budget

that will do the best they can with the existing funds for the local

people of Cumbria. One of the things you have to accept is in a county

like Cumbria, it costs a lot more to deliver services like social care,

and that is not taken account of any more. We will talk to our guest

again in a moment, but I did want to talk to the Green Party who says

they offer a unique toys to voters. We are not left, we are not

right, we are green. We are not tied to

any fixed ideology. Whatever will reduce the impact

of climate change and improve quality of life is what the Greens

go with, and we prefer evidence based tried and tested policies,

instead of knee jerk reactions. Jonathan Arnott, you were meant to

be the main rivals for Labour in this region, but there are dozens of

seats in the selection whether I know Ukip candidates. It is not the

sign of a major party. I could sit here and I could make a lot of

excuses, I could talk about our best ideas not being opened and so one,

or whatever, but you are right, it is not good enough. That is honest,

fair enough. Niall Hodson, even your party is struggling to build up

enough support to field more candidates. Even though you are the

second largest party. Durham is a difficult council. It is tricky and

four us in the north-east, it is a matter of rebuilding, getting back

to where we were pre-2013 particular. But we do have a lot of

candidates up and we do hope to make steady gains across the elections.

As we have been doing over the past couple of years. Jonathan are not,

do you hope you will get seats on the council because there is no

chance of you controlling any of them. Yes, I think we have a number

of seats where we expect to do pretty well. Also, you mentioned

Hartlepool earlier, we have got a by-election coming up that we have

got some incredibly good responses coming back and we hope to do

incredibly well in that. I would say that there are a couple of seats in

the south-east and Northumberland where we think we could win. Thank

you. I'm off to brush up

on my majorities. Something I often do

on a Sunday evening. Next Sunday we'll have a special

debate between the candidates who want to be Tees Valley's

first elected mayor. on issues like the NHS. Run out of

time. Andrew, back to you. Now, Ukip have made their first

significant policy announcement of the election campaign today

with a call for a ban on wearing But is it a policy that will meet

with the approval of the man who bankrolled the party's last

general election campaign? Hello, Andrew. Let me see if I can

clarify some things, are you a member of Ukip? I a patron of Ukip

so I don't stop being a member. So you are still a member? I am,

apparently for life. Are you still hoping to bankroll Ukip? Not at the

moment. Why is that? The internal problems we have had in Ukip have

been aired, and a lot needs to happen in the party in terms of

professionalising it and I think it is ill-prepared for this general

election. Are you going to run in Clacton? I will be if selected. For

Ukip? Yes. Have you been to Clacton? I've been with Nigel Mansell on the

campaign. You will run for a constituency you've only been in

once? Yes, why does that surprise you? You know nothing about it. I've

just recently decided to become the candidate there. Did you know where

it is? Of course I do, your piece the other night was completely

wrong. I said I knew where it was but I didn't know much about it.

Maybe the people of Clacton will regard you as a carpetbagger? Why?

Because you have never been there. Most politicians are carpetbaggers

and I will be there for the right reasons. I thought it was because of

your visceral hatred of Douglas Carswell. He only lasted 24 hours

after I announced my candidacy so we will see what happens. The main

thing I am going to Clacton on Monday to meet the Ukip councillors,

see what the issues are and see if they want me as a candidate. They

may not want me. Who do you think you will be up against? The

potential Conservative candidate. Who in Ukip? I don't suppose anyone

in Ukip will stand against me, I wouldn't have thought. Really? I

would have thought. Money talks! Why do you say that? You talked about

having a pirate radio station to blast into Clacton so it is not

covered by the election rules. You've been talking about financing

a sort of right-wing Momentum movement. I just wonder, has

politics now just become a Richmond's hobby? From my

perspective the reason I'm interested in it is if you have

looked at what has happened in the country, it's clear the

Conservatives will have a massive majority. -- has politics become a

rich man's hobby. Only putting up candidates not against Brexit MPs.

Is Ukip over? I don't think so. The electoral maths is interesting

because first-past-the-post effectively could help Ukip in this

example. Ukip got one MP with 4 million votes. What we are seeing is

the total collapse of Labour. In that situation there are certain

seats up north in Hartlepool and other seats like that, the total

collapse of the Labour Party could help Ukip to win a few seats. Is

Ukip over? It looks that way, yes. They haven't made much of a dent in

Labour's vote in the north, they don't really have a defining issue

anymore and all the polls we have seen published since the election

was called show Ukip vote is going to the Conservatives. Is Ukip over?

It always happens when the Conservative Party goes far to the

right, really hard Brexit, there is no space for BMP, Ukip and all of

that. Are you associating the BNP with Ukip? Or that, movements to the

right of the Conservatives get eaten up one the Conservatives move as far

right as Theresa May has done. I think what your enterprise shows is

how it's really time to reform funding of political parties. It is

disgraceful that very rich people can move in and bankroll the Brexit

campaigned to the extent that they did. We need proper state funding of

parties. The union is bankrolling Labour. I assume the reform would

include trade unions? Indeed. Ukip has lost its talisman in Nigel

Farage, it was a one-man party, I have to say, people like Tim. Having

voted for Brexit its reason to be has gone. It will still take votes

from Labour and the Conservatives but probably only from the don't

knows. There are seats in certain places where if enough Tories back

Ukip dated when. Hartlepool is an example. Were the Tories will never

win. The demise of Ukip has been forecasted many times before but I

don't see a Tory candidate winning in a place like Hartlepool. So we

could see, and I think we will see, the total collapse of the Labour

vote. We shall see. The leader of the party of which you say you are

still a patron, Paul Nuttall, said he would ban the Burcea and the

niqab in public, what is your view? -- the niqab and the Burcea? I'm not

in agreement with that. If it is a security issue at airports or public

transport it could be acceptable but I'm not in favour of curtailing

people's writes. You have gone further than him, haven't you? You

tweeted you wanted to ban Muslim immigration. In my view the problem

we have had with the lack of integration in certain communities

has come about through mass open-door immigration. If you are a

must win you wouldn't be allowed in? What I said in the tweet was I think

they should be a ban on immigration... You said Muslim

immigration. That's what I believe. If you are a world famous doctor

coming to help one of our big teaching hospitals in this country

because you are a Muslim you could not get in? We have to start

somewhere, there are huge problems in areas where 20% of the population

don't speak the language, they haven't integrated. You should read

the rest of the tweet, it is control of immigration from a 10-year ban on

unskilled immigration. The first thing you said was to ban Muslim

immigration, it is in black and white. I have said that, I do not

dispute that. I was questioning that. There is my answer, you cannot

tell somebody's will adjust freedoms but what you can do is stop adding

to the problem. Doesn't that sound a bit like the BNP? It's as like BNP

and like Trump. Its, we hate Muslims, fine, if that is what you

are standing for, that is clear. The final word is we have had open-door

mass immigration from the Conservative Party, we've had it

from the Labour Party and its fine if you are in north London to say

these things, if you live in Oldham and your community has been

radically changed and you have a whole population not integrating in,

not speaking the language, something has got to be done. We had better

leave it there. Thank you for coming in. I am en route to Clacton. We

will see how you get on there. Now, Lib Dem leader Tim Farron

was on TV earlier today and he was asked again

about an issue that he's been asked about repeatedly -

his attitude to homosexuality. when they asked you whether gay sex

was a sin. Come on, Robert, I've been

asked this question loads few days and I have been clear,

even in the House of Commons, It's possible I'm not the only

person getting tired Probably, but then why don't

you just close it down? Toby Young, why does he get into

such a mess over this? I mean, he is leader of the Liberal Democrats. Its

2017. I guess the reason he keeps refusing to answer that question is

because what the implication is that he does think that homosexual acts

are sinful, and he cannot bring himself not to say that, or to say

what Robert Peston and others want him to say because he is an

evangelical Christian who converted at the age of 20, 21, and clearly he

really struggles with this issue and I think it will be really difficult

for the Lib Dems to promote, or even Lib Dem candidates like Vince Cable,

to promote the idea of the Progressive Alliance even though Tim

has ruled it out, if he is not prepared to say I don't think

homosexual acts are sinful. What is your view? It is disastrous if that

is what he really thinks but Preston did not push the hard. I'm not sure

he understood the difference about the question between gay sex and

being gay. I think he just thought he was going on saying I'm not

anti-gay. He needs to command immediately and clarify it. If you

are right and he does actually think it is a sin he is in real trouble.

There is a slight parallel with what police said before about Jeremy

Corbyn, how his unilateral nuclear policy would appeal to the hard core

of the left. The problem for Tim Farron with what he is saying here,

while he is an evangelical Christian, this will not appeal to

traditional Liberal Democrats. An LGBT community member cannot

possibly vote for an MP who believes that a sexual act between

homosexuals is sinful. He has not made that clear. Of course, he wants

to stop Brexit as well so he is neither liberal nor democratic. He

will have seven weeks to make it clear because I am sure he will be

asked again. We have the chairman of the Conservative Party on earlier,

Polly. An important figure for the Tory campaign. What did you make of

what he said? I don't think he will have him on very often, he didn't do

brilliantly. I think they will bring back chemical Ali, Michael Fallon,

he can say anything with a straight face, he can say black is white.

Michael Fallon, chemical Ali? Why do you say that? He can absolutely say

black is white. For instance if you look back at what he said, you

challenged him about the energy policy, when Ed Miliband came out

with it, he said any kind of freeze would stop investment, the lights

will go out. You have him on, he will say the exact opposite. He is

magic at that. But I don't think your guy today was up to the job. If

Michael Fallon was chemical Ali, or we should say chemical Fally,

Patrick was more like comical Ali. The whole Iraq war is rushing back

at me. He is the warm up comedian, there is another six weeks to go,

just getting things started. What did you think? I don't think he was

too bad, it was difficult for him to say exactly what was in the 2050

manifesto is going to be replicated in the Conservatives' manifesto

during this general election, he doesn't want to be seen rowing back

on stuff but on the other hand I don't think he can conceal the fact

they will be far fewer commitments in this Conservative manifesto than

in the last one, as you and I know, it was full of rash promises last

time because they thought they would have to trade a lot of them away in

the negotiations with the Liberal Democrats to form a second coalition

so they are saddled with policies they don't particularly want to be

hemmed in by. The forthcoming Conservative manifesto will be much

lighter and shorter with fewer commitments. Different? Some stuff

jumped from the 2050 manifesto? I think so but we will see a

commitment to run schools to overcome that hurdle in the next

parliament and I don't think, in spite of what you think, Polly, that

it will be a hard tack to the right. I think if anything the mood music

of the Conservative manifesto will be a centrist inclusive one. The

mood music will be because the specifics would be there. She is

good at saying governing for everybody and the many and not the

few but when you look at the hard facts of what her and Hammond's

budget looks like, you look at her hard Brexit, it's a very different

story. Or that, the music has stopped for this week! Thank you. I

will be back next week at the normal time of 11am on Sunday morning. On

BBC One The Daily Politics is back at midday tomorrow and we will be on

every day next week on BBC Two. Remember, if it's Sunday, it is The

Sunday Politics. There'll be a couple of hours of

just fantastic music, really, all the Ella classics, as well as

some very special guests, we have Mica Paris, Imelda May,

Dame Cleo Laine 'There's a side to Rory that the

public doesn't see. 'Rory has suspected for some time

that he may have ADHD. Here we have the first hydrogen bomb

that went into service with