30/04/2017 Sunday Politics North East and Cumbria


30/04/2017

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It's Sunday Morning, and this is the Sunday Politics.

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Theresa May says she has no plans to increase tax levels,

:00:41.:00:42.

but refuses to repeat David Cameron's 2015 manifesto

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promise ruling out hikes in VAT, national insurance and income tax.

:00:47.:00:53.

The leaders of the EU's 27 member states unanimously

:00:54.:00:56.

agree their negotiating strategy for the upcoming Brexit talks, but

:00:57.:01:00.

And in the last of our series of interviews ahead of Thursday's

:01:01.:01:10.

We are in Middlesbrough with the to the leader of Plaid Cymru Leanne

:01:11.:01:20.

We are in Middlesbrough with the four candidates who want to be the

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first elected mayor for the Tees They hit an all-time low

:01:23.:01:27.

after coalition government, but are the Lib Dems

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poised to bounce back, And with me to analyse

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the week's politics, Isabel Oakeshott, Steve Richards,

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Tom Newton-Dunn. They'll be tweeting

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using the hashtag #bbcsp. So when Theresa May was interviewed

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just over an hour ago on The Andrew Marr Show,

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the Prime Minister was asked to confirm that she would repeat

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David Cameron's 2015 election promise not to raise VAT,

:02:04.:02:05.

national insurance and income tax We have absolutely no plans

:02:06.:02:07.

to increase the level of tax, but I'm also very clear that I don't

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want to make specific proposals on taxes unless I'm absolutely sure

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that I can deliver on those. But it is, would be my intention

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as a Conservative Government and a Conservative Prime Minister,

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to reduce the taxes The Tories like to have a clear tax

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message in elections, are they getting into a bit of a mess? That

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method wasn't clear, but does it mean, saying they have no plans to

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increase the level of tax? We are clear there will not be a rise in

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VAT, a lot of commentators will get overexcited about that, but there

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was no great expectations there would be a rise in VAT. Tempting as

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it is, because even one percentage point on VAT rate is 4.5 billion for

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the exchequer so it is tempting but there has been no speculation that

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would happen. We can see that she clearly wants to reiterate the

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language about hard-working families but I don't think we are that much

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the wiser. Even if she does not put up rates, according to projections

:03:13.:03:18.

the overall tax burden, as a percentage of GDP, is rising, will

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rise in the years ahead. That is why it was an odd phrase, I know she is

:03:23.:03:26.

doing it to be evasive but to say they have no plans to raise the

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general level of taxation, they do have. We also know they have

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specific plans because it was in the last budget, they had a tax rise

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which they had to revise, National Insurance rises, so very wisely in

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my view they are keeping options open, the 2015 tax-and-spend debate

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was a fantasy world, totally unrelated to the demands that would

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follow. They now have the flexibility, one of the arguments

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you had heard last time was Philip Hammond saying to her, we have to

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break away from the 2015 manifesto commitment and we can only do it

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this way, that is one of the better arguments. The Tories like to talk

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about tax cuts in elections, whether they do it is another matter, but

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they are not being allowed to talk about tax cuts, they are now on the

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defensive over whether they will raise taxes. That is not a healthy

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position for the campaign to be in. If you look at the numbers, quite

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frankly, if you will not do this at this election with eight 20 point

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lead over Labour, then when will you take these tough decisions? Reading

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between the lines of what Theresa May has said all over different

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broadcasters this morning, income tax will go down for low-income

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families, such as the threshold rise that microbes that was already

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factored in. She has had to commit to it again. VAT will be fat,

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national insurance contributions will go up. Do you think they will

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go up? I think so, she had plenty of opportunity to rule it out and she

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didn't. There was a terrible mess with the budget, it is a good tax

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argument but not a good electoral argument that you are eroding the

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base so heavily with people moving into self-employment that as you

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raise national insurance contributions for everybody but the

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self-employed, it is something the Treasury will have to look at. The

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other triple lock on pensions, we don't know if they will keep to that

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either? If they are sensible they will find a form of words to give

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them flexibility in that area as well. I would say there is no

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question over that, that has gone. As Mrs May would say, you will have

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to wait for the manifesto. That is what all the party leaders tell me!

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Labour have spent the weekend pushing their messages

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Speaking at a camapign rally in London yesterday,

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Jeremy Corbyn promised a Labour government would fix what he called

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People are fed up, fed up with not being able to get somewhere to live,

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fed up waiting for hospital appointments, fed up with 0-hours

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contracts, fed up with low pay, fed up with debt, fed up with not being

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able to get on in their lives because we have a system that is

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rigged against so many. I've been joined from Newcastle

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by Labour's elections and campaigns co-ordinator,

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Ian Lavery. Good morning. To deal with this

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rigged economy, as Mr Corbyn calls it, the Shadow Chancellor John

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McDonnell has a 20 point plan for workers out today. When you add up

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everything he plans to do to help workers, how much will it cost? The

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full costings, one thing I need to say at the very beginning, the

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costings of any policy which we have already ruled out and any policy we

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will be ruling out in the next few days and weeks will be fully costed

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in the manifesto and in addition to the fact that it will be fully

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costed, we will see it in the manifesto how indeed it has been

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funded, so we are very clear, anything we have seen already, and

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there are some exciting policy releases and there will be more in

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the future, anything we are going to do will be fully costed and in the

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manifesto. You announced a 20 point plan but cannot tell me what the

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costs will be this morning so at the moment it is a menu without prices?

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It is not a menu without prices, it is a fantastic opportunity. This 20

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point plan is something which will transform the lives of millions of

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millions of people in the workplace... But what is the cost?

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It will be welcomed by many people across the UK. The fact the costings

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have not been released, you will have to be patient, it will be

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released very clearly, it will identify that in the manifesto. Let

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me come down to one of the points, the end of the public sector pay

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freeze. Can you give us any idea how much that will cost? The end of the

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public sector pay freeze, so important to the future of the

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Labour Party, it is an massive policy decision. Let me say at this

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stage, Theresa May, the Prime Minister, this morning, on The

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Andrew Marr Show, did not have the common decency, courtesy all respect

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to condone the fact that nurses, the heroes of the NHS, have had a

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reduction of nearly 14% in their wages since 2010 and are using food

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banks to feed themselves! Does that not say everything that is wrong

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with today's society? So can you tell me what it will cost, which is

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what my question was? What I will say is everything the Labour Party

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pledges, everything that we come out with, what we will roll out between

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now and the 8th of June, will be fully costed, people will be very

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much aware of how much the costings will be, where the funding will come

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from, when the manifesto is published. What about doubling

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paternity leave, nu minimum wage, four new bank holidays, any idea

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what it will cost? These are exciting new

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proposals and of course today cost money but we are the sixth richest

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economy in the world. It is about redistribution of the wealth we

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create. We are seeing growth in the economy, it is how we utilise the

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finances in the best way we possibly can for a fairer society for the

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many and not the few. You just can't tell me how much it will cost? That

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is why I will repeat again that you need to be very patient. Do you know

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the cost yourself? You are the head of the campaign, do you know the

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cost of these things yourself? I am very much aware of how much the

:09:59.:10:03.

costings are likely to be, they have been identified, they will be

:10:04.:10:07.

published in the manifesto. You really do understand I would not be

:10:08.:10:12.

releasing today, live on your show, any costings or predictions with

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regards the manifesto. Why not? You have released the policy, why not

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the cost? Because there is a fine detail and we will identify it to

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the general public in the manifesto. We not only explain how much it will

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cost but we will explain where the funding comes from. Be patient. Will

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some of the costs be met by increasing taxes? I would think at

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this point in time there is not any indication to increase basic taxes

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and again the taxes and spending of the Labour Government with the

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proposals of the 20 point plan, the issues we have got, housing, the

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NHS, crime, education will all be identified with the costings in the

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publication. Can you tell us this morning, we'll tax for most people

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rise or not to finance this? We in the Labour Party are looking to a

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fair tax system which will be clearly identified in the manifesto.

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Mr McDonnell also wants to ban all 0-hours contracts. Would that

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include those who actually like those contracts? There are nearly 1

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million, depending on which figured you'd use, there are nearly 1

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million people on zero-hours contract and the vast proportion of

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those want to be able to live a decent life, a secure life, they

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want to understand whether they will be at work the next day, they're

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included hours... I understand a lot of people don't like zero-hours

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contract and your proposal will address that, but there are those, I

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saw one survey where 65% of people on zero-hours contract like the

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flexibility it gives them. Will you force them off zero-hours contract

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or if they like them will they continue with them? We will discuss

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it with employee is to make sure individuals in the workplace have

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the right to negotiate hours in that workplace. Guaranteed hours is very,

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very important. Zero-hour contracts are an instrument in which employers

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abuse and exploit mainly young people, mainly female people in the

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workplace. We would be banning zero-hour contract. But there are

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those, students for example, who like them, would they be forced off

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zero-hour contracts in your proposal? Our proposal would be

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banning zero-hour contract and introducing contracts which have set

:12:50.:12:54.

hours in the workplace. You also say no company will be able to bid for a

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public contract unless the boss earns no more than 20 times the

:12:58.:13:02.

lowest paid, or the average wage, I'm not quite sure which. What would

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happen if British Aerospace bids to build more joint strike Fighters and

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the boss is paid more than 20 times? I understand the point you raise but

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we have an obscene situation in this country, Andrew, in which the bosses

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at the very top make an absolute fortune... But what would happen

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then? Who would build joint strike Fighters... The difference in wages

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between the top earners in the country and the people in the

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factories, in the workshops, producing the goods, is vast. I

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understand that is the reason you want a ratio. What I am saying is,

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what happens if the ratio is greater? Who gets the contract if

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not British Aerospace? Who else builds the planes? We are going to

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introduce a wage rate CEO of one to 20. -- wage ratio. We want to close

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the gap between the people at the very top and people who produce the

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goods. Let me try one more Time, who would build the joint strike

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fighter? We would look at the issue as it came along but the policy is

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clear... Can you name a single defence contractor weather boss'

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salary is less than 20 times average earnings? We are not reducing, we

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have rolled that out as part of this fantastic plan to transform society

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to get rid of discrimination, to try and bring together our communities.

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We will introduce a pay ratio of one to 20. Fair enough, thank you very

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much. It's a month after the triggering

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of Article 50, and EU leaders - with the exception of Britain -

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met in Brussels this weekend to agree their opening negotiating

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stance, to get the divorce It is inside this psychedelic

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chamber where Britain's 'Grexit' future will be decided over the next

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two years, but there is a vast gulf in rhetoric coming from the UK and

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the EU. With parallel narratives emerging for both sides. There is

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broad agreement that an orderly withdrawal is in the interests of

:15:31.:15:34.

both sides. But Theresa May's position is that the terms of our

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future trade deal should be negotiated alongside the terms of

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our divorce. Meanwhile the EU says the terms of the UK's exit must be

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decided before any discussion on a future trade deal can begin. But

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don't forget that divorce settlement. Don't remind me. In

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Brussels, many think written should pay even more, while in the UK

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ministers said the divorce bill should be capped at 3 billion. After

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you. Thank you. For are you looking forward to it?

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Isn't that divorce bill a bit high? Isn't this about punishing Britain?

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We are very united, you all seem so surprised but it's a fact. How soon

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can we get a deal? We have to wait for the elections. It was the

:16:30.:16:34.

decision of Mrs May. It took over an hour for the leaders to make their

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entrances but once inside it's just a few minutes to agree the

:16:39.:16:44.

negotiating guidelines. They set out three main areas. The first phase of

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talks on the divorce settlement will deal with the existing financial

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commitments to the EU, the Northern Ireland border and the rights of EU

:16:53.:16:56.

citizens in the UK. They said a UK trade agreement can be discussed

:16:57.:17:00.

when the first phase of talks reaches significant progress. And

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that there must be unity in the negotiations, that individual EU

:17:06.:17:08.

members won't negotiate separately with the UK. They are quite good

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here at negotiating because they are used to it. They set a maximum and

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then they have to recede a little bit depending on what the other side

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is prepared to offer. I think there is room for manoeuvre in some

:17:25.:17:29.

issues, but I don't think some of the baseline things will change that

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much. For example I don't think the European Union will concede on the

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rights of citizens who are already in the UK. It will be very difficult

:17:40.:17:44.

for them to accept that they will not be any exit bill, and the

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question of Northern Ireland is very important as well, the hard order

:17:50.:17:52.

question. The baseline things are not going to move that much, then

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you have room for manoeuvring between. On security, defence and

:17:58.:18:01.

the fight against terrorism, the guidelines said the EU stands ready

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to work together. And after lunch, friendly signs from some EU leaders

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as they gave individual press conferences. Paul and said the talks

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should open doors to new opportunities and even German

:18:16.:18:18.

Chancellor Angela Merkel, who had earlier said some in Britain were

:18:19.:18:24.

deluded about Brexit, softened her tone saying there was no conspiracy

:18:25.:18:26.

against the UK. Unity was the buzzword at this summit and for once

:18:27.:18:33.

everybody seemed to be sticking to the script. That unity is not only

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amongst the 27 states, it's also among the institutions so many of

:18:39.:18:41.

the divisions we have seen in the past at European level do not exist.

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That is very important and it's not be unity that is directed somehow

:18:47.:18:50.

against the UK because I think we all want this to be an orderly

:18:51.:18:55.

process and part of that is that the EU side is unified. So although

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there are no surprises here, what took place in this room was a

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significant step towards the real Brexit negotiations which will begin

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soon after the general election in June, said to be the most complex

:19:15.:19:17.

the UK has faced in our lifetimes. Isabel, Steve and Tom

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are still with me. Isabel, doesn't the British media

:19:22.:19:32.

have to be a bit careful here? We would never take at face value

:19:33.:19:36.

anything a British politician tells us. We would question it, put it in

:19:37.:19:42.

context and wonder if they are bluffing, but we seem to take at

:19:43.:19:46.

face value anything a European politician says about these

:19:47.:19:49.

negotiations. You only have to look at the front page of the Sunday

:19:50.:19:55.

Times today to see that. They quoted at length Juncker, who didn't like

:19:56.:19:59.

the food at the reception and this and that, and I think the mood is

:20:00.:20:04.

very optimistic. The key thing is the EU trade Commissioner has said

:20:05.:20:08.

we will get a free trade deal and a lot of people seem to be wilfully

:20:09.:20:13.

ignoring that incredibly big concession. That is what will happen

:20:14.:20:16.

in their view. Everything that is said at the moment needs a slight

:20:17.:20:23.

rerun over. They are all in negotiating positions, plus we seem

:20:24.:20:27.

to be completely unaware that they all have their own domestic

:20:28.:20:32.

constituencies as well. Angela Merkel has an important election

:20:33.:20:36.

coming up in September, Euroscepticism is quite different

:20:37.:20:39.

from Britain of course, but there's a different kind of euro scepticism

:20:40.:20:44.

in Germany, she has got to deal with that. Of course she has, which is

:20:45.:20:48.

why you are right, nothing should be taken too seriously out of the

:20:49.:20:55.

mouths of British politicians or European politicians until October

:20:56.:20:58.

this year. We have got to wait for the French elections, then German

:20:59.:21:01.

elections, and if you look through this you can see a way forward.

:21:02.:21:07.

There's no trade talks until pay up, but what was actually written was no

:21:08.:21:12.

trade talks until we make significant progress on the money.

:21:13.:21:15.

You can define significant progress in a lot of ways but come December,

:21:16.:21:20.

fireworks over the summer, we all get very excited about it, in these

:21:21.:21:24.

chairs I'm sure, come December things will look a lot smoother. The

:21:25.:21:29.

German elections are at the end of September but I've seen reports in

:21:30.:21:33.

German press, depending how it goes it could take until Christmas before

:21:34.:21:37.

a new coalition government is put together. The Brussels long-standing

:21:38.:21:43.

negotiating tactic of nothing is agreed until everything is agreed,

:21:44.:21:48.

then I guess the British could say we agree a certain sum of money if

:21:49.:21:51.

that's what it takes but that depends on them, what good trade

:21:52.:21:56.

deal we get. If we don't get that, the sum of money is off the table.

:21:57.:22:02.

In that sense, the two are going parallel. However, I wouldn't

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entirely dismiss what people are saying in their pre-election periods

:22:08.:22:12.

to their own electorates because they have to some extent to deliver

:22:13.:22:17.

subsequently. Of course Angela Merkel is campaigning and

:22:18.:22:20.

electioneering, who wouldn't, she has a tough election to fight, but

:22:21.:22:24.

she is measured and thoughtful and when she says things like some of

:22:25.:22:28.

the British are delusional, that is unusually strong language for her.

:22:29.:22:36.

What was she referring to? I don't know, it wasn't specific. Have the

:22:37.:22:41.

cake and eat it perhaps the sequencing the British don't want.

:22:42.:22:43.

When they thought the British government was going to effectively

:22:44.:22:47.

demand membership of the single market, that's not going to happen

:22:48.:22:54.

now. Unless you sign up to the four pillars, that's the cake and eat it

:22:55.:22:59.

proposition, which they are right in saying Theresa May has made. But

:23:00.:23:03.

everybody has access, even with no deal you have access. The other side

:23:04.:23:11.

of it is I think there will be a united position from them. And so,

:23:12.:23:18.

as somebody pointed out in that report, they are experienced, tough

:23:19.:23:23.

negotiators, so I don't think it will be quite as easy as some think.

:23:24.:23:33.

I spoke to one of those who drew up Article 50 and they said to me they

:23:34.:23:37.

deliberately put this two year timetable in to make it impossible

:23:38.:23:43.

for anybody to think about leaving. This is really tight, this

:23:44.:23:46.

negotiation. Easy, it isn't. This coming Thursday,

:23:47.:23:49.

voters up and down the country will be going to the polls in this

:23:50.:23:51.

year's local elections. Over the past few weeks I've

:23:52.:23:54.

interviewed representatives of the Conservative Party,

:23:55.:23:56.

Labour, the Liberal Democrats, Today it's the turn

:23:57.:23:58.

of Plaid Cymru and the SNP. A little earlier I spoke

:23:59.:24:01.

Alex Salmond, who until 2014 I started by asking him why Scots

:24:02.:24:03.

should vote SNP in local elections when the Scottish Government had

:24:04.:24:08.

just cut central Government funding It's actually a funding increase

:24:09.:24:23.

going into Scottish councils this year, and if you look at the funding

:24:24.:24:28.

position for example between Scottish councils and those in

:24:29.:24:31.

England, which are obviously directly related through the Barnett

:24:32.:24:36.

formula, the funding in Scotland has been incomparably better than that

:24:37.:24:41.

in England so there's a whole range of the -- of reasons... What's

:24:42.:24:50.

happening south of the border indicates the protection the

:24:51.:24:52.

Scottish Parliament has been able to put in that helps vital services in

:24:53.:24:56.

Scotland. But there hasn't been a funding increase, the block grant

:24:57.:25:01.

from Westminster to Edinburgh was increased by 1.5% in real terms but

:25:02.:25:06.

the grant to councils was cut by 2.6%. It was going to be a cut of

:25:07.:25:12.

330 million, the Greens got you to reduce it to 170 million but it is

:25:13.:25:25.

still a cut of 2.6%. Your own Aberdeenshire Council has had a cut

:25:26.:25:28.

to 391 million. You have cut the money to councils. Yes, but councils

:25:29.:25:32.

have available to them more resources this year, and as you say

:25:33.:25:35.

the budget increased that further which is why we put forward an

:25:36.:25:41.

excellent local government budget in Aberdeenshire and resisted a Tory

:25:42.:25:44.

attempts to knock ?3 million off... You asked me about Aberdeenshire,

:25:45.:25:50.

and Aberdeenshire has put forward a budget for investment expansion and

:25:51.:25:56.

resisted a Tory attempts to knock ?3 million off the education budget,

:25:57.:25:59.

and I'm very grateful you have given me the opportunity to make that

:26:00.:26:04.

point. The Government in Edinburgh has cut the money to Aberdeenshire

:26:05.:26:12.

by ?11 million. It is a cut. But there is an investment budget in

:26:13.:26:15.

Aberdeenshire that has been made available by the ability to increase

:26:16.:26:20.

the council tax by 2.5% after a nine-year freeze in Scotland, and

:26:21.:26:24.

that has brought more resources into local government and that's why the

:26:25.:26:29.

butchered in Aberdeenshire has been an investment budget including

:26:30.:26:32.

protection of the education budget in the face of a Tory and liberal

:26:33.:26:37.

attempt to cut bit. You have to compare what is happening in

:26:38.:26:41.

Scotland and England, and there's no doubt Scottish local authorities

:26:42.:26:44.

have been much better funded than those in England over the last few

:26:45.:26:50.

years and that's been the ability of the Scottish Government to protect

:26:51.:26:52.

the services at local level. A good reason for voting SNP. If they have

:26:53.:27:00.

been so well funded, why after a decade of SNP rule do one in five

:27:01.:27:05.

Scottish pupils leave primary school functionally illiterate? You have

:27:06.:27:13.

got to take these things... Nicola Sturgeon has made it a top priority

:27:14.:27:16.

to address these challenges but let's take another statistic. 93% of

:27:17.:27:22.

Scottish kids are now emerging from school to positive destinations,

:27:23.:27:26.

that means to further education, apprenticeships or work. Why are one

:27:27.:27:35.

in five functionally illiterate? You argue one statistic, I'm arguing

:27:36.:27:38.

Scottish education is putting in some substantially good performances

:27:39.:27:44.

like the 93% going on to positive destinations. You can't have a

:27:45.:27:49.

failing education system if you have got that 93%, and incidentally a

:27:50.:27:53.

record low youth unemployment in Scotland without the second lowest

:27:54.:27:57.

unemployment rate in Europe. These pupils are being prepared by the

:27:58.:28:01.

Scottish education system. Let's take the figures in the round on

:28:02.:28:08.

education. It's so important. Under your watch, under your government,

:28:09.:28:13.

the Scottish schools in the most important global comparison have

:28:14.:28:22.

fallen from tenth to 19th in science, and 11 to 24th in maths,

:28:23.:28:27.

that is a record of decline and failure. That is by the OECD and

:28:28.:28:35.

first questions about that, but the OECD has also described Scotland is

:28:36.:28:38.

one of the best educated societies in the world. That was from the

:28:39.:28:43.

school system in previous years gone by. For those who are currently in

:28:44.:28:49.

Scottish schools, you have fallen from 11th to 24th in mathematics.

:28:50.:28:54.

The OECD was commenting on introduction of the new curriculum

:28:55.:28:57.

for excellence in which they have given a resounding thumbs up to it,

:28:58.:29:03.

and that's the same source as the rankings which you are comparing.

:29:04.:29:08.

Nicola Sturgeon has said there are challenges on Scottish education,

:29:09.:29:10.

particularly the access through the education system and the attainment

:29:11.:29:15.

gap but don't tell me it's failing when 55% of our pupils have gone on

:29:16.:29:19.

to higher education. That's one of the most impressive figures in the

:29:20.:29:24.

world. Why have you cut 4000 teachers? The pupil numbers in

:29:25.:29:29.

Scotland have been falling over recent years as well and now of

:29:30.:29:33.

course we are increasing the number of people going through teachers

:29:34.:29:36.

training so we can make sure that number increases, but listen, the

:29:37.:29:41.

Scottish Government and Scottish Parliament, as you very well know,

:29:42.:29:46.

are subject to real terms spending cuts over the last few years and all

:29:47.:29:50.

public services have been under pressure. The main reason in terms

:29:51.:29:54.

of teacher numbers has been an attempt on the Scottish Government

:29:55.:29:57.

to protect the teacher pupil ratio, and that will now be enhanced by a

:29:58.:30:05.

further taker -- intake. You promised you would reduce primary

:30:06.:30:12.

class sizes to 18 and instead they are now 23.5 and rising. You broke

:30:13.:30:18.

that promise. You didn't mention where we started from. We have kept

:30:19.:30:22.

the teacher pupil ratio very solid in Scotland and that's been against

:30:23.:30:26.

a range of public expenditure cuts but the new intake of teachers into

:30:27.:30:30.

the new teacher training in Scotland I think will enhance the system.

:30:31.:30:35.

You have spent in the pasty in Hollywood 43 hours on Government

:30:36.:30:43.

time debating independence. How many hours have you debated education on

:30:44.:30:47.

Government time? I don't have that they get a hand... The answer is

:30:48.:30:53.

zero, you have spent zero-hours debating education on Government

:30:54.:30:57.

time. Isn't it time the SNP got back to concentrating on the day job?

:30:58.:31:03.

Andrew, as you very well know Nicola Sturgeon has identified a key

:31:04.:31:07.

priority, closing the attainment gap in Scottish education. That is

:31:08.:31:10.

exactly what she has done. Let me answer the question, it is difficult

:31:11.:31:18.

to be in a remote location, if you talk before I answer the question

:31:19.:31:21.

then the view was will not be able to listen. I let you answer that

:31:22.:31:29.

without saying a word. Is this general election about independence,

:31:30.:31:33.

as you say it is, or not about independence, as Mrs Sturgeon says

:31:34.:31:38.

it is? No, I have said exactly the same as Nicola Sturgeon on that. The

:31:39.:31:43.

issue what independence will be decided in a national referendum of

:31:44.:31:46.

the Scottish people. The mandate for that referendum was gained in last

:31:47.:31:51.

year's Scottish elections. What this election is about is backing the

:31:52.:31:55.

right of the Scottish parliament to exercise that mandate and also

:31:56.:31:58.

providing real opposition to this Tory Government and allowing the

:31:59.:32:02.

Scottish Parliament to reverse austerity and some of the public

:32:03.:32:05.

expenditure cutbacks you have been talking about, that is what this is

:32:06.:32:09.

about, backing our Scottish Parliament.

:32:10.:32:11.

Alex Salmond, speaking to me earlier.

:32:12.:32:13.

I'm now joined by the leader of Plaid Cymru, Leanne Wood.

:32:14.:32:16.

You accuse the Government of wanting an extreme Brexit, those are your

:32:17.:32:22.

words. What is the difference between hard Brexit and extreme

:32:23.:32:27.

Brexit? My concern is the way in which we leave the European Union

:32:28.:32:31.

could be very damaging to Wales if, for example, there are tariffs

:32:32.:32:34.

introduced then that would have a real impact in terms of Welsh jobs,

:32:35.:32:42.

and I want to make sure that we have a Brexit that doesn't cause the

:32:43.:32:45.

damage to Wales that could be caused. But what is the difference

:32:46.:32:50.

between extreme and hard? Anything that puts Welsh jobs at risk is

:32:51.:32:54.

either extreme or hard and unacceptable to Plaid Cymru, and we

:32:55.:32:58.

will do what we can to protect those jobs. You want Wales to remain a

:32:59.:33:03.

member of the single market even if the UK isn't, which would mean Wales

:33:04.:33:07.

having to accept the free movement of people, still being under the

:33:08.:33:19.

jurisdiction of the European Court, and you also want to stay in the

:33:20.:33:22.

customs union which means you could not do your own free trade deals.

:33:23.:33:24.

What is the difference between that and being a member of the European

:33:25.:33:27.

Union? We would be like Norway, outside the European Union and

:33:28.:33:29.

inside the single market. The key question is the issue of jobs and

:33:30.:33:33.

the ability to continue to trade. Wales exports, we are the biggest

:33:34.:33:38.

exporter in the whole of the UK, so there are many jobs reliant upon

:33:39.:33:41.

those goods being able to be sold to the single market. Is it central to

:33:42.:33:51.

the UK? Out of the four countries that make up the UK...

:33:52.:33:59.

Proportionally, yes. If you remain in the single market, it is hard to

:34:00.:34:03.

see how Wales could stay in the single market if the UK -- when the

:34:04.:34:07.

rest of the UK was not, you cite Norway, that has free movement, it

:34:08.:34:13.

has to be said, it effectively have to accept the jurisdiction of the

:34:14.:34:16.

European Court, it is not in the customs union so it can do some of

:34:17.:34:24.

its own free trade deals, but the Welsh people voted to leave. We have

:34:25.:34:28.

to accept the principle of free movement if there is not going to be

:34:29.:34:32.

a hard border between the north and south of Ireland. There is going to

:34:33.:34:37.

be free movement within Ireland and therefore freedom of movement, as we

:34:38.:34:40.

said in the referendum campaign, would be very, very difficult to

:34:41.:34:47.

rule out. You lost that campaign, as you know, Wales voted to leave, 17

:34:48.:34:51.

Council areas voted to leave, only five voted to remain. Doesn't it

:34:52.:34:59.

explain why your party is going nowhere? A majority in Wales voted

:35:00.:35:03.

to leave but you effectively want to support that and de facto remain in

:35:04.:35:09.

the EU? I don't accept that, we accepted the result but Plaid Cymru

:35:10.:35:13.

now is about defending Wales. There are so many risks facing our people

:35:14.:35:18.

from the jobs perspective, the privatisation perspective, the cuts

:35:19.:35:22.

perspective, and from the fact that the Tories would like to grab power

:35:23.:35:26.

was back from our National Assembly, so the key point... If you look at

:35:27.:35:31.

the Wales bill that went through recently, the list of reserved

:35:32.:35:35.

powers there suggests there are some powers currently within the Welsh

:35:36.:35:39.

Assembly jurisdiction that would be dragged back. Which power was will

:35:40.:35:45.

Westminster take back? They could take powers back over the NHS, for

:35:46.:35:49.

example. There is no indication they want to do that. The Tories have

:35:50.:35:58.

attacked the Welsh NHS. That is my point! Quite viciously. If they

:35:59.:36:05.

increase their mandate, I wouldn't put it past them to try to take

:36:06.:36:09.

power was back over the NHS and then of course we risk our NHS being

:36:10.:36:15.

privatised though this election is all about defending Wales,

:36:16.:36:18.

protecting Welsh people from further privatisation and cuts and a power

:36:19.:36:23.

grab from the Tories. Why is there never a breakthrough for your party,

:36:24.:36:27.

Plaid Cymru? Labour dominated in Wales for years, the Tories do quite

:36:28.:36:31.

well, Ukip had a surge for a while, it looks like the Tories will have

:36:32.:36:35.

another surge, never you, always the bridesmaid, never the bride. Wait

:36:36.:36:40.

until Thursday and I think you will see that in many parts of Wales we

:36:41.:36:43.

will increase our representation at a local council level. In the

:36:44.:36:50.

Rhondda, where I am assembly member, we are looking to increase our

:36:51.:36:55.

representation... You are only 13% in the polls will stop which is half

:36:56.:37:03.

of even the Tories in Wales! If you don't breakthrough in the selection,

:37:04.:37:10.

if the real problem is going nowhere, do you think you will pack

:37:11.:37:14.

it in? Robert Green not, I have a job to do, a vision of Wales which

:37:15.:37:19.

is about building up our nation and standing on our own two feet and my

:37:20.:37:23.

job is not done yet. Thank you for being with us as part of your job,

:37:24.:37:24.

we will see how it goes on Thursday. It's just gone 11.35,

:37:25.:37:28.

you're watching the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers

:37:29.:37:30.

in Scotland who leave us now Hello and welcome to your

:37:31.:37:33.

local part of the show. The clue is in the iconic

:37:34.:37:58.

transporter Bridge. We have come out of the studio

:37:59.:37:59.

and we are in Middlesbrough. Voters across much of the Northeast

:38:00.:38:02.

and all of Cumbria will go to the polls on Thursday

:38:03.:38:05.

to elect local councillors. But something different

:38:06.:38:07.

is happening here. People will be choosing

:38:08.:38:09.

the first ever elected mayor But are people

:38:10.:38:11.

interested in the role? Will they engage in a contest

:38:12.:38:15.

which could be drowned out by the hubbub of

:38:16.:38:19.

the general election campaign. Who better to ask than the four

:38:20.:38:24.

candidates who are standing who have hopefully talked to lots of voters

:38:25.:38:27.

over the last couple of weeks. Sue Jeffrey, Labour

:38:28.:38:33.

candidate, first of all. Now, it is a tough sell with any

:38:34.:38:35.

new job, but voters interested in this when you talk

:38:36.:38:39.

to them about it? In the first couple

:38:40.:38:41.

of weeks, perhaps not. But now I'm knocking on doors

:38:42.:38:43.

and getting a lot of responses People are actually seeing

:38:44.:38:46.

the benefits of us standing together, 660,000 people,

:38:47.:38:49.

actually starting to do something for the Tees Valley around jobs,

:38:50.:38:51.

the economy, skills, transport. So, yes, I think people

:38:52.:38:55.

are getting it now. Chris Foote Wood for the Liberal

:38:56.:38:58.

Democrats, you are a veteran What is engagement like in this one,

:38:59.:39:01.

compared to others? It is obvious that there

:39:02.:39:04.

is going to be a low turnout. It is something new and people don't

:39:05.:39:07.

understand what it is about. But I want to get across the point

:39:08.:39:11.

that this is something real. Scotland and Wales have done

:39:12.:39:14.

very well on devolution. Now Tees Valley is getting

:39:15.:39:16.

its own form of devolution. This is happening,

:39:17.:39:19.

whether you agree with it or not. You have an opportunity to choose

:39:20.:39:21.

someone who will have real power and bring real,

:39:22.:39:24.

new money into the area. Let's talk now to John Tennant,

:39:25.:39:26.

the Ukip candidates. You have said that you would hold

:39:27.:39:28.

a referendum on whether So presumably, you are not convinced

:39:29.:39:31.

the public are on board with this? Because we were never asked

:39:32.:39:35.

whether we wanted to be part I am the only candidate

:39:36.:39:44.

here offering a referendum to give people a chance to have their say

:39:45.:39:48.

on whether they want First and foremost,

:39:49.:39:50.

that is democracy. It should be upheld and I am

:39:51.:39:53.

the democracy candidate. We may discuss later whether that

:39:54.:39:56.

referendum would be binding But Ben Houchen,

:39:57.:39:58.

for the Conservatives, of course Theresa May called

:39:59.:40:00.

this general election. Does that make it a tougher

:40:01.:40:02.

sell for use yet people interested in your candidacy

:40:03.:40:05.

all the election in general? On top of my key pledge to buy

:40:06.:40:07.

back Teesside airport, We find that people are really

:40:08.:40:13.

engaging in it because we are now at a point, given that it is Sunday

:40:14.:40:17.

today, that we have less than a week We have had for too long,

:40:18.:40:22.

Labour politicians, local authorities that have destroyed

:40:23.:40:29.

the area for decades and no better example of that and the ruination

:40:30.:40:31.

of Teesside airport. So that has really engaged people

:40:32.:40:33.

and I think people have really Another issue on which we will be

:40:34.:40:36.

hearing from Labour later on that. Deals could not be agreed to bring

:40:37.:40:41.

these mayors to either Cumbria or the North East with ministers,

:40:42.:40:43.

but Tees Valley will join the likes of Manchester and the West Midlands

:40:44.:40:46.

who will be getting this new role. David McMillan has

:40:47.:40:49.

been taking a look. What is this place

:40:50.:40:52.

called the Tees Valley? Stockton and Middlesbrough

:40:53.:40:54.

in the middle, Cleveland in the east, Hartlepool in the north

:40:55.:40:57.

and in the west, Darlington. And the new mayor is going to get

:40:58.:41:00.

new powers over things I transport, skills and the economy and also

:41:01.:41:03.

getting new money. The mayor needs to engage

:41:04.:41:05.

in a new kind of conversation with electors in the region so that

:41:06.:41:14.

residents have really got a voice in how some part of that

:41:15.:41:20.

mayoral budget is spent. So what could the mayor do with this

:41:21.:41:22.

new money and power? Many people would like to

:41:23.:41:25.

see a new road bridge But the budget is not

:41:26.:41:28.

going to stretch that far. What it will pay for are detailed

:41:29.:41:35.

plans and architectural designs, giving the mayor more clout

:41:36.:41:37.

when they ask the government There are things that the mayor has

:41:38.:41:40.

direct control over. They can take charge of the buses

:41:41.:41:44.

if they want to and they will be in charge of adult skills,

:41:45.:41:47.

deciding what has to be taught to meet the demands

:41:48.:41:50.

of the local job market. The mayor will also be the face,

:41:51.:41:52.

the name, the chief ambassador of the Tees Valley, selling

:41:53.:41:55.

the region to potential visitors, The Tees Valley makes

:41:56.:41:57.

an important contribution It's part of the really successful

:41:58.:42:00.

story of exports of the North East. If we have a mayor who can talk

:42:01.:42:05.

about the whole of the Tees Valley, about all the places,

:42:06.:42:10.

their contributions, Finally, the mayor is a kind

:42:11.:42:11.

of Tees Valley tactician, deciding what sort of development

:42:12.:42:15.

should go where to benefit So they will need a strategy

:42:16.:42:17.

for business and industry. They will need a plan

:42:18.:42:20.

for culture and tourism. They will have to decide what sort

:42:21.:42:23.

of housing is required The mayor will be based

:42:24.:42:25.

here at Cavendish House in Stockton and ultimately,

:42:26.:42:29.

all of this is about insuring more of the decisions that matter

:42:30.:42:32.

to the Tees Valley are made We move inside to the Transporter

:42:33.:42:34.

Bridge Visitor Centre, Let's explore some of the issues

:42:35.:42:41.

and powers involved in this new job. Chris Foote Wood, we have already

:42:42.:42:47.

talked about a worrying lack of engagement from the public,

:42:48.:42:51.

but you have three years in your What is the one thing that

:42:52.:42:54.

you would say you could achieve in those three years that would make

:42:55.:42:58.

a difference to people's lives? There are so many things that

:42:59.:43:01.

you can do, even in three years. But in the first year,

:43:02.:43:05.

even in the first week, there are things that can be done,

:43:06.:43:08.

for example, the South Tees Development Corporation,

:43:09.:43:10.

which is one of a number which the mayor will be able to set

:43:11.:43:13.

up, it is already in being but it I want to see something happening

:43:14.:43:16.

on the SSI site of Redcar. We really need to get

:43:17.:43:23.

moving on that. And we need to lay plans

:43:24.:43:27.

for these new bridges across the Tees which will,

:43:28.:43:30.

in a few years' time, make a complete transformation

:43:31.:43:32.

for people to travel around the Tees Valley.

:43:33.:43:35.

OK. We will return to some

:43:36.:43:38.

of those is use. Ben Houchen, what is

:43:39.:43:44.

the one thing... I have a feeling I know

:43:45.:43:46.

what the answer is going to be! What is the one thing you think

:43:47.:43:49.

you can achieve in three years? Apart from the combined authorities'

:43:50.:43:53.

target that they have set themselves to create 25,000 jobs over the next

:43:54.:43:55.

period, I think we have But as a personal commitment that

:43:56.:43:58.

I want to achieve over the next three years,

:43:59.:44:02.

it is to buy back Teesside airport. I think the absolute disgrace

:44:03.:44:05.

that this has become under Labour run local authorities,

:44:06.:44:12.

the sell-off in the mid-2000s, has ruined our local airport

:44:13.:44:14.

and we are at the final stage where we have a last chance

:44:15.:44:17.

and within this week we have a final The service is going

:44:18.:44:21.

from the airport already. You don't know whether you can

:44:22.:44:31.

deliver it and there are other ways of getting that airport

:44:32.:44:35.

revived, aren't there? No, I think we really

:44:36.:44:36.

are at that last chance saloon. We have had for too long,

:44:37.:44:39.

Labour and authorities, for which all the leaders

:44:40.:44:41.

of the council says on the board authorities, for which the leaders

:44:42.:44:51.

of the council sit on the board, of the council sit

:44:52.:45:02.

on the board, of the airport, If we let this chance go,

:45:03.:45:05.

the airport will go. I have said it before,

:45:06.:45:08.

and I will say it again. We need a new, fresh idea and if I'm

:45:09.:45:11.

elected on the 4th of May, Sue Jeffrey for Labour,

:45:12.:45:14.

you might want to deal with that, but let's also hear what is the one

:45:15.:45:18.

thing you think you could deliver in three years that would make

:45:19.:45:22.

a difference to people? I have made it absolutely clear

:45:23.:45:24.

that my key priority is jobs, bringing jobs back to the Tees

:45:25.:45:27.

Valley. 25,000 new jobs over

:45:28.:45:29.

the next ten years. It is already in place,

:45:30.:45:32.

we have a strategic economic plan But more importantly,

:45:33.:45:35.

I have been working, leading the team that is revitalising

:45:36.:45:38.

the South Tees steel site And I am working with a range

:45:39.:45:40.

of business leaders, industrialists, to try and find ways to get

:45:41.:45:45.

that investment in. And I am also working

:45:46.:45:47.

with government on that and I think that is a key role for the mayor,

:45:48.:45:50.

work with partners, what with government,

:45:51.:45:53.

key people in the area This is crucial, can a mayor

:45:54.:45:55.

actually deliver jobs? Can it get somebody into work?

:45:56.:45:58.

Yes. Or can they just sit

:45:59.:45:59.

around planning things? What I'm already doing is I'm

:46:00.:46:01.

talking to the industry that are likely to want to come

:46:02.:46:05.

and invest on that site. I'm encouraging them to come

:46:06.:46:08.

and look at that site and work with me and to pull together

:46:09.:46:10.

packages of incentives that will enable them

:46:11.:46:13.

to want to bring their investment But I can't stop without

:46:14.:46:15.

mentioning the airport. The fact is, the airport

:46:16.:46:18.

is going to be a thriving airport. It will be one that will work

:46:19.:46:21.

with the people of the Tees Valley. But we won't do that by wasting

:46:22.:46:24.

the money of the Tees Valley people by buying that airport,

:46:25.:46:28.

we will do it by using the money of the Tees Valley people

:46:29.:46:31.

to invest in that airport. Where is the evidence that

:46:32.:46:33.

Durham Tees Valley Airport, Teesside Because we have seen

:46:34.:46:36.

a dramatci fall in passengers At least there is a plan there,

:46:37.:46:39.

your plan is just hope and wait for private companies

:46:40.:46:43.

to do something? I have a very clear plan,

:46:44.:46:45.

not just about investing in the airport itself,

:46:46.:46:48.

about investing in the business So there are a whole range

:46:49.:46:50.

of business opportunities. They can grow and thrive if we get

:46:51.:46:53.

the right incentives packages there. There is the whole issue around

:46:54.:46:56.

transport links to that airport, Already there are proposals

:46:57.:46:59.

on the cards for investment in that station to make sure that it comes

:47:00.:47:03.

back to a situation where we can start getting people

:47:04.:47:07.

going back to the airport. But most importantly,

:47:08.:47:09.

it is the links to the Heathrow expansion and again,

:47:10.:47:11.

I have been talking to people about how we can link

:47:12.:47:13.

into the Heathrow expansion But that won't happen

:47:14.:47:16.

in the first three years. Things are starting

:47:17.:47:19.

to happen around that now, since the decline started

:47:20.:47:21.

at Teesside airport. It is only now that she is standing

:47:22.:47:25.

at me that for some reason Can I say that that

:47:26.:47:29.

is complete nonsense. We have been working to deliver

:47:30.:47:31.

improvements in that airport over the last number of years

:47:32.:47:34.

and the fact is, we have been having to deal with a very

:47:35.:47:37.

difficult economic situation. We are now in a circumstance

:47:38.:47:39.

where we can see an opportunity It has been a one-party

:47:40.:47:42.

state in Teesside... There is no evidence of you guys

:47:43.:47:46.

ever doing anything. You, Sue, gave planning permission

:47:47.:47:49.

for 350 houses to be built right next to the airport,

:47:50.:47:53.

which is going to stop expansion of the airport.

:47:54.:47:55.

You are on the board. You made the application,

:47:56.:47:57.

and you are going to ruin I was not on the board

:47:58.:48:00.

when the decision was made to secure The issue is how do we invest

:48:01.:48:06.

in the airport to deliver a thriving airport that will secure the future

:48:07.:48:11.

that we all want for it? John Tennant, we will let you talk

:48:12.:48:14.

about the airport as well, but again, if you get this job,

:48:15.:48:19.

you have raised doubts about whether you think

:48:20.:48:22.

it is a worthwhile job, but let's say that

:48:23.:48:24.

you have to do it. What is the one thing you think

:48:25.:48:26.

you could achieve in three years First of all, I think it's very

:48:27.:48:29.

important that everybody has a say in whether they want to be part

:48:30.:48:33.

of this combined authority, so I would deliver that referendum

:48:34.:48:36.

before I was given a mandate... I want to check with

:48:37.:48:39.

you on that before we move on. It would not be binding,

:48:40.:48:42.

it would cost money. Because the government

:48:43.:48:47.

have the decision in the end. So you can give an indication of it,

:48:48.:48:49.

but what a waste of money. You have got two ways

:48:50.:48:52.

of looking at this. Either we use taxpayers' money

:48:53.:48:58.

to give people a real voice, all we waste it

:48:59.:49:09.

on buying an airport. Or we try and build a super bridge

:49:10.:49:11.

that we cannot afford. Or do we use some of that money

:49:12.:49:13.

to give people a voice? I think that is the most

:49:14.:49:17.

important thing. And you would be handing back

:49:18.:49:19.

this ?15 million a year ?15 million a year is a drop

:49:20.:49:21.

in the ocean for the entire region. Let's say you hold a referendum

:49:22.:49:26.

and people are suddenly enthusiastic about this job,

:49:27.:49:29.

you have to do it. What is the one thing you would do

:49:30.:49:32.

to make a difference in three years? I would like to see a Metro system

:49:33.:49:35.

delivered in this area. Obviously that will take

:49:36.:49:38.

longer than three years but I would like to get

:49:39.:49:43.

the groundwork going on that and that will help industry starts

:49:44.:49:45.

thriving again and get You would have to speak to various

:49:46.:49:48.

different companies, different parts of the private

:49:49.:49:53.

sector and speak to Westminster to put together a credible plan

:49:54.:49:55.

for building a Metro system. Somebody has to get it

:49:56.:50:00.

started and that can be me. But, John, you can't have a metro

:50:01.:50:02.

system without a bridge. You have rubbished the bridge,

:50:03.:50:05.

but without the bridge, we cannot have a Metro loop system

:50:06.:50:07.

around the Tees Valley. Chris Foote Wood, let's

:50:08.:50:10.

deal with the bridge. We are sat next to

:50:11.:50:12.

the Transporter Bridge. A Middlesbrough company started

:50:13.:50:13.

last century to fund But the truth is that

:50:14.:50:15.

you cannot fund a bridge You still have to go cap

:50:16.:50:19.

in hand to the government. Where is the power and independence

:50:20.:50:24.

of a mayor who says, I would like a bridge,

:50:25.:50:26.

I can draw up a plan, but I still have to persuade

:50:27.:50:29.

ministers to fund it? Well, whoever builds a bridge,

:50:30.:50:31.

it has got to come primarily I would say, look at

:50:32.:50:34.

the Humber Bridge which goes from nowhere to nowhere,

:50:35.:50:39.

which was still built. We have a bridge here that

:50:40.:50:41.

could bring prosperity to the region and have everybody travelling around

:50:42.:50:44.

on a Metro system. Every successful city

:50:45.:50:47.

as a Metro system. We need that, and to get that,

:50:48.:50:50.

we must have a bridge. It is an irrefutable argument

:50:51.:50:54.

and as long as we make that argument stronger,

:50:55.:50:57.

we have as much right as anybody else to have one

:50:58.:50:58.

of these structures built. We have built bridges all over

:50:59.:51:02.

the world, why can't Can I tell you the actual

:51:03.:51:04.

circumstances about the bridge? What has happened is that we have,

:51:05.:51:09.

as part of our involvement in an organisation called Transport

:51:10.:51:11.

for the North, we have secured funding from government

:51:12.:51:14.

to do a feasibility study Once we have completed

:51:15.:51:16.

that feasibility study, we will be making a bid

:51:17.:51:20.

to government for the It is really important

:51:21.:51:23.

that as the Tees Valley, we stand together and say that

:51:24.:51:27.

that is an essential part It is not about going cap in hand

:51:28.:51:29.

anywhere, we have already got ourselves in a situation

:51:30.:51:35.

that we have the I am now absolutely funding

:51:36.:51:38.

that we had to make their bid -- I am now absolutely certain that

:51:39.:51:56.

we have to make the bed and we will get the funding.

:51:57.:51:58.

Ben Houchen, it was the Conservative government to try to sell his idea

:51:59.:52:01.

But John Tennant is right, ?15 million a year in this fund

:52:02.:52:06.

In isolation, ?15 million a year is not a amount when you take

:52:07.:52:10.

But a lot of that money can be front-loaded.

:52:11.:52:13.

We are looking at leveraging that against the Northern

:52:14.:52:15.

I will be speaking to the operators of the Teesside pension fund.

:52:16.:52:19.

I think we can build a war chest of more than half ?1 billion

:52:20.:52:23.

which then gives us a critical mass to invest across the region.

:52:24.:52:26.

That sounds like a hell of a lot of borrowing.

:52:27.:52:28.

I thought the Conservatives didn't like borrowing.

:52:29.:52:30.

The borrowing is guaranteed against income the government

:52:31.:52:32.

So in the same way that if you know you have guaranteed income over 30

:52:33.:52:36.

years of which we get ?15 million a year, then what we are saying

:52:37.:52:40.

is that we are going to borrow that to get it sooner,

:52:41.:52:43.

to be able to invest more heavily in the short-term,

:52:44.:52:45.

knowing that we can guarantee that income in the long-term.

:52:46.:52:47.

John Tennant, you were not convinced by that?

:52:48.:52:49.

I'm not convinced because it is more borrowing while there are paying

:52:50.:52:52.

Debts to invest in the infrastructure of the area

:52:53.:52:58.

and benefit the economy, that has got to be a good thing?

:52:59.:53:00.

And you are in favour of turning them down and saying I don't

:53:01.:53:04.

No, I am in favour of saying that people have a voice first.

:53:05.:53:08.

We know that you personally am not convinced by the role.

:53:09.:53:12.

So you would turn down, if you had the choice,

:53:13.:53:14.

that ?15 million a year and powers to make a difference

:53:15.:53:17.

Know, in the short term I would have to accept it and get

:53:18.:53:21.

But crucially, people must have their say

:53:22.:53:25.

And there is no point all of us burying our heads in the sand

:53:26.:53:33.

First of all, a referendum would cost us ?1 million.

:53:34.:53:39.

And I firmly believe that that million pounds can be spent

:53:40.:53:42.

But secondly, there seems to be a complete misunderstanding

:53:43.:53:46.

about the money that is available to the combined authority

:53:47.:53:48.

There is actually an investment pot of ?450 million before we even start

:53:49.:53:54.

And that is made up of a range of funding pots including European

:53:55.:54:00.

money, skills money, money to support people

:54:01.:54:02.

A whole range of things and that ?450 million is earmarked,

:54:03.:54:06.

much of it, for schemes which I will be promoting

:54:07.:54:09.

In terms of the 15 million, that can be used to borrow,

:54:10.:54:14.

but unfortunately, this Conservative government has failed to give us

:54:15.:54:17.

the power to enable that borrowing to take place yet.

:54:18.:54:20.

And I have been talking to ministers over the last six months or so,

:54:21.:54:23.

saying, when we going to get these powers, and they

:54:24.:54:26.

I think one of the first thing is that the mayor will have to do

:54:27.:54:32.

is put pressure on the Conservative government, if there is one,

:54:33.:54:35.

to ensure that we get the borrowing powers.

:54:36.:54:37.

The next thing I was going to raise with Chris Foote Wood, is...

:54:38.:54:40.

We all accept that I have the mayor has not got the powers

:54:41.:54:43.

they need to do everything, but what is the one power

:54:44.:54:46.

unit of the government for if you were to become Mayor?

:54:47.:54:55.

-- what is the one power you would ask the government for?

:54:56.:55:00.

The extra power, and extra is quite right, we do need the power

:55:01.:55:03.

to borrow and every organisation that develops does it by borrowing.

:55:04.:55:06.

There is nothing wrong with that as long as it is secured.

:55:07.:55:09.

If you look at Scotland and Wales, they were set up with a certain

:55:10.:55:14.

They have both increased their powers and I'm certain that

:55:15.:55:17.

We are a long way from Scotland and Wales, we are a long way

:55:18.:55:22.

from London, in terms of the powers on offer!

:55:23.:55:24.

What I'm saying is, they increased those powers.

:55:25.:55:26.

And when we get this new system going and it is real devolution,

:55:27.:55:29.

not as much as Scotland and Wales but will make a difference,

:55:30.:55:33.

when we proven and I think three of the people around this table

:55:34.:55:38.

think it is going to work, and make it work, then we can say

:55:39.:55:41.

History has shown that when you set something up, extra powers come.

:55:42.:55:48.

Ben Houchen, you have heard the criticism of the government

:55:49.:55:50.

Would there be a power you would see?

:55:51.:56:01.

-- would that be a power that you would seek?

:56:02.:56:04.

What would be the extra power you would see?

:56:05.:56:06.

That is definitely a power that I would seek but it is important

:56:07.:56:09.

to look at as part of this package, rather than looking at specific

:56:10.:56:12.

Sue is in denial, on the 8th of June, we will re-elect

:56:13.:56:18.

the Conservative government with a vast increase majority.

:56:19.:56:19.

That means we will have a Conservative government

:56:20.:56:21.

and the best opportunity for this region to gain even more powers

:56:22.:56:24.

and more autonomy is to elect a Conservative mayor.

:56:25.:56:26.

So they will only deal with Conservatives?

:56:27.:56:28.

No, I don't think that is true at all.

:56:29.:56:30.

But I think anybody would be remiss to think that it would be easier

:56:31.:56:37.

into Whitehall with Conservative colleagues and say, I am leader

:56:38.:56:46.

across the Tees Valley, these are the powers that we need.

:56:47.:56:50.

It is easier putting out an open door rather than a closed door.

:56:51.:56:53.

You would, because you are head of the combined authority!

:56:54.:56:57.

I'm already having those conversations and I think the key

:56:58.:56:59.

is you that a mayor is having to deal with is dealing with people

:57:00.:57:02.

from all colours of the political spectrum and all places

:57:03.:57:05.

And that pragmatism to negotiate with whoever you need to is very

:57:06.:57:08.

important and I think that needs to be recognised.

:57:09.:57:11.

John Tennant, you're not a fan, but if there was one power

:57:12.:57:15.

you could deliver that would persuade you that the mayor

:57:16.:57:18.

It's not about powers, it's about representation.

:57:19.:57:23.

we have the Conservatives talking about having colleagues in

:57:24.:57:28.

Westminster, that means they will do their bidding. We have Labour who

:57:29.:57:37.

worry 1-party state in teeth Valley. -- in the Tees Valley. We have the

:57:38.:57:42.

ability to put pressure on to the government. We have succeeded in the

:57:43.:57:49.

past and we can do it again. In terms of my extra power... ? I think

:57:50.:57:55.

you told us! Very briefly. The really important one is funding for

:57:56.:58:00.

skills. We need to have control over skills funding if we are to give our

:58:01.:58:04.

young people opportunities to get the jobs we will create. Also, if

:58:05.:58:10.

you ask for more powers, you have to ask for a greater salary to deal

:58:11.:58:14.

with those powers... Lets not deal with that. Can I just say? No,

:58:15.:58:22.

because there is another issue I want to. The electoral system means

:58:23.:58:29.

that the voters have two votes. Who would be your second choice, Chris

:58:30.:58:34.

Foote Wood? Who would you advise voters to vote for? That is entirely

:58:35.:58:41.

for people to decide. Who is your personal preference? Everybody has a

:58:42.:58:46.

first and second preference. Would you cast your vote for the person

:58:47.:58:50.

you want to be mayor, then you look at the other three and by

:58:51.:58:54.

definition, you choose the least worst option. And in your view, who

:58:55.:59:02.

is that? I won't answer that but I urge people to use both their votes

:59:03.:59:06.

otherwise it will be danger -- there will be a danger as happened in

:59:07.:59:12.

Middlesbrough because the Labour candidate got one third of the boat

:59:13.:59:15.

and got elected because other people did not use their second boat. Full

:59:16.:59:21.

out of these esteemed colleagues would you put second? I think the

:59:22.:59:25.

people the watch and vote for it if you wouldn't believe is... Who would

:59:26.:59:30.

be your second choice? I wouldn't offer advice. Ben Houchen,? I don't

:59:31.:59:41.

do tactical voting. What I would say is if you want to have a sieve

:59:42.:59:46.

ensures it is overseeing the Labour Party because it is between me and

:59:47.:59:53.

the Labour Party. The Labour Party already run the five local

:59:54.:59:56.

authorities. If people are happy with the way the area has been run

:59:57.:00:00.

over the last 30 to 40 years, we need to look at that again. John

:00:01.:00:07.

Tennant? I take a similar view to Chris. You have to use your second

:00:08.:00:13.

vote. It should be the least worst. But you don't want them to vote

:00:14.:00:17.

Labour? I would urge feeble not to. And not Conservative either, because

:00:18.:00:24.

I don't -- I would urge people not to. And not Conservative either

:00:25.:00:27.

because I don't believe in wasting money on airport.

:00:28.:00:32.

Next week, there will be another election intruding on our

:00:33.:00:35.

we will take the mandate that we want. To all three of you, thank

:00:36.:00:40.

you. Andrew, back to you. So, how will Thursday's local

:00:41.:00:52.

election results affect Who's winning the

:00:53.:00:54.

election ground war? And as he celebrates 100

:00:55.:00:56.

days in the White House, We have the local elections, Metro

:00:57.:01:14.

elections in Liverpool, greater Birmingham, West Midlands, how will

:01:15.:01:19.

they play into the general election? Significantly, it is very unusual.

:01:20.:01:22.

People keep comparing this with the election in 83, not! Margaret

:01:23.:01:27.

Thatcher was nervous and to wait until after the local elections to

:01:28.:01:31.

call the election to see the result. We are getting these result in the

:01:32.:01:35.

middle of an election campaign so it will be important, whoever does

:01:36.:01:41.

badly will suffer a dent in confidence in terms of how they

:01:42.:01:44.

approach the election and we are also going to have mayoral figures

:01:45.:01:49.

as a reminder of another big difference with the 80s that however

:01:50.:01:54.

big, say, the Conservatives win in Westminster, there are now sectors

:01:55.:01:58.

of power in other parts of the United Kingdom which were not there

:01:59.:02:01.

in the 80s. One of the reasons niches that are rated in 83 was

:02:02.:02:06.

memories were still alive in political circles of 1970, Wilson

:02:07.:02:11.

saw the local election results and thought, I can win, he was told he

:02:12.:02:16.

would win by the Economist magazine, who had done the analysis, and of

:02:17.:02:20.

course he lost, so that is why she waited, Mrs May does not need to

:02:21.:02:28.

wait for that at all now, and on the Metro elections, the one she will be

:02:29.:02:31.

looking at is the West Midlands, that is the one that is a

:02:32.:02:35.

competition. I think she can really lose on Thursday in the local

:02:36.:02:38.

elections, governing parties are supposed to take effect again,

:02:39.:02:42.

losing lots of council seats. She is projected to put on 100 or so seats,

:02:43.:02:49.

Labour projected to lose around 200, the first time the main opposition

:02:50.:02:53.

party has shed seats since something like 83 so clearly the local

:02:54.:02:56.

elections give Mrs May great momentum going into the general

:02:57.:03:00.

election campaign but there is a downside in that, which is what we

:03:01.:03:03.

have already heard fighting about this morning, if it looks like it is

:03:04.:03:09.

going too well for the Tories, it says to voters, why bother turning

:03:10.:03:13.

up? Sushi comes up with totally unbelievable sound bites this

:03:14.:03:16.

morning that this is the most important general election in her

:03:17.:03:22.

lifetime. Really?! For her it is! It always is until the next one! I

:03:23.:03:29.

wonder if voter turnout is a problem? Tory voters are more likely

:03:30.:03:33.

to vote than Labour voters. If there is a sense that it is all over bar

:03:34.:03:39.

the shouting, the overall turnout will be low that Tory voters are

:03:40.:03:43.

still likely to turn out more than Labour voters so she would still win

:03:44.:03:47.

some. I don't think she needs to be too worried, I think there will be a

:03:48.:03:52.

significantly low turnout, even I am finding it hard to be that excited

:03:53.:03:59.

about this general election. Really, the policies, we have spent a lot of

:04:00.:04:03.

time talking about them today and we have to examine them, but all this

:04:04.:04:08.

is about is, do you want Theresa May or Jeremy Corbyn in Number Ten?

:04:09.:04:12.

Those are the only question is, apart from possibly how strong do

:04:13.:04:15.

you feel about Brexit, that will be on the voters' minds. You may say

:04:16.:04:21.

that but I will not be put off from going through a list of policies

:04:22.:04:25.

that we have already had in the last 24 hours. On the Conservatives, more

:04:26.:04:31.

powers to stop company bosses under pensions, of course Philip Green was

:04:32.:04:39.

in mind there. Labour has come up with quite a few policies, actually,

:04:40.:04:44.

give all work of equal rights, whether part-time or full-time,

:04:45.:04:53.

temporary or permanent. Ukip, scrap VAT or takeaway -- on takeaway food

:04:54.:04:58.

and end the BBC licence fee. The Liberal Democrats have come out

:04:59.:05:04.

posed to the runway at Heathrow. I thought I knew that already? Will

:05:05.:05:11.

any of these policies make a difference? They are all nice handy

:05:12.:05:17.

things that people quite liked but probably not, is the answer. They

:05:18.:05:21.

are an awful way away from polling day now for people to remember and

:05:22.:05:25.

latch onto. I don't think you make your mind up on small issues like

:05:26.:05:31.

Heathrow, unless you live in Richmond-upon-Thames, maybe, but the

:05:32.:05:34.

problem Labour have got with unfailing a lot of these retail type

:05:35.:05:38.

policies which, in themselves, are very popular, is no one will listen

:05:39.:05:43.

to them until they get over the leadership credibility issue. Jeremy

:05:44.:05:47.

Corbyn could the world on a stick, but if no one believes he can

:05:48.:05:50.

deliver it then he will not be listened to and he has not done much

:05:51.:05:53.

apart from a speech yesterday in which is claim to fame was getting

:05:54.:05:57.

arrested, I don't see how that would work for him getting to Number Ten.

:05:58.:06:03.

They are not making progress on it. Labour has rolled out a number of

:06:04.:06:09.

policies which, taken individually, would have certain traction in

:06:10.:06:14.

normal times, quite interesting ideas, this sense of unfairness, a

:06:15.:06:17.

feeling that ordinary workers have not done well out of the recovery,

:06:18.:06:23.

those who caused the crash have, 20 points, I went through some of them

:06:24.:06:26.

earlier, putting aside they are not costed, we are assured they will be.

:06:27.:06:31.

The problem I suggest is not the costing but the cut through? Every

:06:32.:06:38.

election has a context which is determined by opinion polls, however

:06:39.:06:41.

sceptical we are these days, and if one party is way ahead it is

:06:42.:06:44.

difficult for the other party to appear relevant, because if people

:06:45.:06:49.

assume they are not going to win, even some of its own MPs are saying,

:06:50.:06:54.

we are not going to win this, so you can vote for us, it is very hard to

:06:55.:07:01.

get attention and relevance. Where I think all the parties are bad with

:07:02.:07:05.

their current leaders is framing arguments, so those policies you

:07:06.:07:11.

have highlighted makes sense. The best leaders are brilliant framers

:07:12.:07:14.

of an argument and neither Theresa Maynor Jeremy Corbyn R. They have

:07:15.:07:21.

been campaigning, their manifestos are not out yet, both sides have

:07:22.:07:25.

been telling us we have to wait for costings, but it has not stopped

:07:26.:07:29.

them campaigning. Let's remind you of where they have been and what

:07:30.:07:34.

they have been doing so far. Let's start with Jeremy Corbyn, his

:07:35.:07:39.

first official visit was in the ultra-marginal Conservative seat of

:07:40.:07:43.

Croydon Central where the MP Gavin Barwell has a lead of just 165. That

:07:44.:07:48.

is not the only Conservative seat he has visited, along the way he popped

:07:49.:07:52.

in on Bristol North West, a Conservative majority of nearly

:07:53.:07:59.

5000. The Tory seat of Cardiff North, a lead of just over 2000,

:08:00.:08:06.

Warrington South, just over 2700, and Crewe and Nantwich, Tory

:08:07.:08:11.

majority of three and a half thousand. Yesterday he visited

:08:12.:08:16.

Bethnal greed and Bob, a Labour lead of 20 4000. Theresa May kicked off

:08:17.:08:22.

her campaign in Bolton, Labour majority of over 4000. On her way

:08:23.:08:26.

round the UK she had a comfy stop in her own maidenhead seat, where she

:08:27.:08:31.

is defending a majority of nearly 30,000, before travelling to other

:08:32.:08:34.

Labour marginals including Dudley North, a Labour lead of 4000.

:08:35.:08:42.

Bridgend, a lead of just under 2004 Labour, before becoming ambitious

:08:43.:08:43.

and visiting shadow minister Richard Bergen's Leeds East seat, which he

:08:44.:08:59.

won by over 12,500 votes. Yesterday she went north of the border to

:09:00.:09:02.

Aberdeenshire, where amongst other places she visited the SNP seat of

:09:03.:09:04.

West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine, where the Tories would have to gain

:09:05.:09:05.

over 7000 votes to unseat the NP. What do you make of it all so far?

:09:06.:09:13.

It is remarkable she is doing these visits in Scotland. Past but even

:09:14.:09:17.

five years and the idea of a Tory Prime Minister going round Scotland

:09:18.:09:20.

would be utterly counter-productive, and actually they are ambitious for

:09:21.:09:25.

Scotland now under with Davidson, a prospect of multiple seats, and that

:09:26.:09:29.

would be a real genuine shift in Scottish politics, the likes of

:09:30.:09:32.

which we have not seen for 15 or 20 years. If she gets that, that helps

:09:33.:09:42.

towards 100 seats, because if she wins ten in Scotland, it is

:09:43.:09:47.

effectively 20, the SNP lose ten, she gains ten, she wants to do that

:09:48.:09:51.

in the Midlands with Labour, and the North. To get the 100 majority,

:09:52.:09:57.

other than Scotland, she has to win Labour seats, that is all that is

:09:58.:10:02.

there. And clearly she has been told, it is obvious, that she has a

:10:03.:10:06.

chance of doing so, otherwise you don't go to these parts of the

:10:07.:10:09.

country in the first few days of the campaign. All logic points to her

:10:10.:10:14.

being able to pull it off as well. The opinion polls, the state of the

:10:15.:10:19.

Labour Party. The only qualification I have in this is that politics is

:10:20.:10:23.

so wild and free Braille at the moment, it doesn't feel like

:10:24.:10:30.

landslide to rain. That is true, it doesn't. It is early days, we

:10:31.:10:36.

haven't yet had the manifestos, the campaign is yet to gather momentum.

:10:37.:10:39.

It doesn't feel like landslide territory. I disagree, look at every

:10:40.:10:48.

single poll, the Tory lead is 10% in Wales, you can see her picking up 20

:10:49.:10:53.

seat there. Put this together, I am told by the way she is going into

:10:54.:10:57.

traditional Labour heartland again tomorrow, the key is the Ukip vote.

:10:58.:11:03.

That will implode... Crumble towards Tories? If she can hoover that up

:11:04.:11:22.

and retain the Tory vote, she will have a majority of 150.

:11:23.:11:22.

I cannot let you go without reminding you that it is Donald

:11:23.:11:23.

Trump's 100 days. He's not making a lot of it now, this is what he said

:11:24.:11:24.

last night. We are just beginning in our fight

:11:25.:11:26.

to make America great again. Now, before we talk about my first

:11:27.:11:29.

100 days, which has been very exciting and very productive,

:11:30.:11:38.

let's rate the media's 100 days. Because, as you know,

:11:39.:11:43.

they are a disgrace. There you go, still bashing the

:11:44.:12:03.

media, that was at a rally in Virginia, the 100 days was last

:12:04.:12:08.

night. He seems happier campaigning than running the country. You each

:12:09.:12:11.

have 20 seconds to give me your board on the first 100 days.

:12:12.:12:20.

Remarkable, he will not stop slagging off the media but America

:12:21.:12:25.

first has not meant America first in terms of national policy, he has

:12:26.:12:28.

reneges on what he said about Nato being obsolete. He is moving from

:12:29.:12:33.

the old right to the centre because that is where you get things done,

:12:34.:12:41.

he is a pragmatist, also is about's friend Nigel Parrott is no longer

:12:42.:12:47.

welcome, we read this morning! Allegedly! He loves campaigning but

:12:48.:12:52.

finds governing much more difficult. Who would have thought being

:12:53.:12:56.

president of the United States was a difficult job?! He loves rallies but

:12:57.:13:00.

being president and politics is a very difficult thing indeed. Thank

:13:01.:13:05.

you, there we go, Mr Trump's 100 days, we will see what the next 100

:13:06.:13:07.

brings. The Daily Politics is back

:13:08.:13:10.

on BBC Two after the bank holiday on Tuesday at midday,

:13:11.:13:13.

with all the latest And I'll be back here

:13:14.:13:15.

on BBC One next Sunday Remember - if it's Sunday,

:13:16.:13:18.

it's the Sunday Politics. The East End girl who became the

:13:19.:14:25.

nation's favourite. We don't know what it is,

:14:26.:14:27.

but she definitely has... Something. From stage to screen

:14:28.:14:32.

and into our hearts. Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!

:14:33.:14:37.

Ooh, in't she wonderful? If you're not careful, you'll end up

:14:38.:14:44.

playing this sexy little blonde

:14:45.:14:49.

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