14/05/2017 Sunday Politics North East and Cumbria

It's Sunday morning and this is the Sunday Politics.

Theresa May unveils plans to build many more affordable homes

in England, but with no price tag, timetable or building targets -

Labour takes aim at the City with what it calls a Robin Hood Tax

to fund public services, but will traders just

Don't look at the polls - Jeremy Corbyn, at least,

insists he can win this election - so which way will

We'll hear from a focus group in Leeds.

Here: Labour hits back after the Prime Minister accuses

Jeremy Corbyn of abandoning the North East's working-class voters.

But have the Conservatives really won

and here, what the parties are saying about tackling the air

pollution problem in London. And with me, our own scientifically

selected focus group of political pundits -

they're not so much undecided as clueless -

Tom Newton Dunn, Isabel Oakeshott They'll be tweeting

throughout the programme. So, we've got two new

policies this morning. Labour say they will introduce

a financial transaction tax if they win the general election

and what they're calling "the biggest crackdown on tax

avoidance in the country's history". The Conservatives say they'll work

with local authorities in England to build council houses

with the right to buy. Theresa May says the policy

"will help thousands of people get on the first rung

of the housing ladder". Steve, what do you make of them? I

have been conditioned after doing tax and spend debates in

pre-election periods for many decades to treat policy is not as

literal but as arguments. In other words if you look back to 2015 the

Tory plan to wipe out the deficit was never going to happen and yet it

framed and large event. In that sense the Robin Hood tax is a

sensible move for Labour to make at this point because it is part of a

narrative of reconfiguring taxation to be fair. Treating it as an

argument rather than something that would happen in day one of Labour

government is sensible. In terms of building houses Theresa May said

right from the beginning when she was in Number Ten that there is a

housing deficit in this country rather than the economic deficit

George Osborne was focusing on, and this is an example of trying to get

house-building going. It seems entirely sensible, not sure how it

works with right to buy but again as framing of a 90 minute it makes

sense. I disagree with Steve on one front which is how sensible Theresa

May's policy is on the housing announcement. I think more broadly

these two announcements have something in common which is that

over the next 24 hours both will probably unravel in different ways.

Ye of little faith! The Mayor of London has already said he doesn't

agree with this, and when people see the actual impact of what looks like

a populist tax will very potentially affect people's pensions, it might

become a lot less popular. On the Tory housing plans, I think it is

difficult to imagine how they are going to implement this huge, what

looks like a huge land and property grab. Through compulsory purchase

orders, which are not a simple instrument. They say they will

change the law but really the idea of paying people below the market

value for their assets is not something I can see sitting easily

with Tory backbenchers or the Tories in the House of Lords. Tom. Both

would appear superficially to be appealing to traditional left and

traditional right bases. What is more Tory than right to buy, then

councils sell on these houses, and Labour slapping a massive tax on the

city. The Tories' plan, I would say look a bit deeper and all of the

Tory narrative from the last six years which hasn't worked well is

talking about the private sector increasing supply in the market. Now

Mrs May is talking about the role for the state after all so this is

the shift creeping in. On the Labour transaction tax, one of the most

interesting things I heard in days was from Paul Mason, former BBC

correspondent, now a cog in Easter extreme. On Newsnight he said don't

worry about whether the Labour manifesto will add up, I'm promising

it will, the bigger Tory attack line should be what on earth will be the

macroeconomic effect of taking so much tax out of the system. Very

well, we shall see. At least we have some policies to talk about.

Now, on Tuesday Labour will launch its manifesto.

But we've already got a pretty good idea of what's in it -

that's because most of its contents were leaked to the media

Labour has a variety of spending pledges including an extra

?6 billion a year for the NHS, an additional ?8 billion for social

care over the lifetime of the next parliament,

as well as a ?250 billion in infrastructure over

The party will support the renewal of the Trident submarine system,

although any Prime Minister should be extremely cautious

about its use, and the party will hold a strategic defence

and security review immediately after the election.

In terms of immigration, Labour will seek "reasonable

management of migration", but it will not make "false

Elsewhere, university tuition fees will be abolished,

and the public sector pay cap, which limits pay rises

for public sector workers to 1%, will be scrapped.

The party also aims to renationalise the railways, the Royal Mail

and the National Grid, as well as creating at least one

A senior Labour backbencher described it to the Sunday Politics

as a manifesto for a leadership who don't "give a toss

about the wider public", and several other Labour candidates

told us they thought it had been deliberately

leaked by the leadership, with one suggesting

the leak was intended to "bounce the National Executive"

And we're joined now from Salford by the Shadow Business Secretary,

Welcome to the programme. The draft manifesto proposed to renationalise

the number of industry. You will wait for the franchises to run out

rather than buy them out at the moment so can you confirm the

railways will not be wholly nationalised until 2030, after three

Labour governments, and Jeremy Corbyn will be 80? I'm not going to

comment on leaks, you will just have to be patient and wait to see what

is in our manifesto. But you have already announced you will

nationalise the railways, so tell me about it. We have discussed taking

the franchises into public ownership as they expire, however the detail

will be set out in the manifesto so I'm not prepared to go into detail

until that policy is formally laid out on Tuesday. That doesn't sound

very hopeful but let's carry on. You will also nationalise the National

Grid, it has a market capitalisation of ?40 billion, why do you want to

nationalise that? Again, I'm not going to speculate on leaks, you

will just have to be patient. But you said you will nationalise the

National Grid so tell's Y. The leaks have suggested but you will just

have to wait and see what the final manifesto states on that one. So is

it a waste of time me asking you how you will pay for something that

costs 40 billion? Be patient, just couple of days to go, but what I

would say is there is growing pressure from the public to reform

the utilities sector. The Competition and Markets Authority

stated in 2015 that bill payers were paying over till debt -- ?2 billion

in excess of what they should be paying so there is a clear need for

reform. The bills we get are from the energy companies, you are not

going to nationalise them, you are going to nationalise the

distribution company and I wondered what is the case for nationalising

the distribution company? As I said, our full plans will be set out on

Tuesday. In relation to the big six energy companies, we know in recent

years they have been overcharging customers... There's no point in

answering questions I am not asking. I am asking what is the case for

nationalising the National Grid? There is a case for reforming the

energy sector as a whole and that looks at the activities of the big

six companies and it will look at other aspects too. You will have to

be patient and wait until Tuesday. What about the Royal Mail? Again,

you will have to wait until Tuesday. Why can't you just be honest with

the British voter? We know you are going to do this and you have a duty

to explain. I'm not even arguing whether it is right or wrong. The

Royal Mail was sold off and we know it was sold under value and British

taxpayers have a reason to feel aggrieved about that. There is a

long-term strategy that would ensure the Royal Mail was classified as a

key piece of infrastructure but the details of that will be set out in

our manifesto because we want to ensure businesses and households

ensure the best quality of service when it comes to their postal

providers. You plan to borrow an extra 25 billion per year, John

McDonnell has already announced this, on public investment, on top

of the around 50 billion already being planned for investment. You

will borrow it all so that means, if you can confirm, that many years

after the crash by 2021, Labour government would still be borrowing

75 billion a year. Is that correct? We have set out ?250 billion of

capital investment, and ?250 billion for a national investment bank. Our

financial and fiscal rules dictate we will leave the Government in a

state of less debt than we found it at the start of the parliament so we

won't increase the national debt at the end of our Parliamentary term.

How can you do that if by 2021 you will still be borrowing around 75

billion a year, which is more than we borrow at the moment? The 500

billion figure is set out over a period of ten years, it's a figure

that has been suggested by Peter Helm from Oxford University as a

figure that is necessary to bring us in line with other industrial

competitors. Similar figures have been suggested by groups such as the

CBI. By the way I have not included all 500 billion, just the 250

billion on public spending, not the extra money. You talk about the

fiscal rules. The draft manifesto said you will leave debt as a

proportion of trend GDP law at the end of each parliament, you have

just said a version of that. What is trend GDP? In clear terms we will

ensure the debt we acquire will be reduced by the end of the

parliament. We won't leave the Government finances in a worse state

than we found them. OK, but what is trend GDP? Our rule is we will

ensure public sector net debt is less than we found it when we came

to power in Government on June the 8th. But that is not what your draft

manifesto says. I'm not going to comment on leaks, you are just going

to have to wait until Tuesday to look at the fine detail and perhaps

we will have another chat then. You have published your plans for

corporation tax and you will increase it by a third and your

predictions assumed that will get an extra 20 billion a year by the end

of the parliament. But that assumes the companies don't change their

behaviour, that they move money around, they leave the country or

they generate smaller profits. Is that realistic? You are right to

make that point and you will see when we set out our policies and

costings in the manifesto that we haven't spent all of the tax take.

We have allowed for different differentials and potential changes

in market activity because that would be approved and direction to

take. But corporation tax is allowed to be cut in France and the United

States, it's only 12.5% in Dublin. Many companies based in Britain are

already wondering whether they should relocate because of Brexit,

if you increase this tax by a third couldn't that clinch it for a number

of them? No, we will still be one of the lowest corporation tax rate in

the G7. Let's look at what's important for business. Cutting

corporation tax in itself doesn't improve productivity, or business

investment and there's no suggestion cutting corporation tax in recent

years has achieved that. Businesses need an investment in tools in

things they need to thrive and prosper, they also need to reduce

the burden at the lower end of the tax scale, before we get to the

Prophet stage. One key example is business rates. We have made the

proposal to government to in -- exclude machinery so businesses can

invest and grow operations in the future but the Government refused.

Corporation tax has been cut since 2010. When it was 28% it brought in

?43 billion a year. Now it is down to 20%, it brought in ?55 billion a

year. By cutting it in the last year, it brought in 21% more, so

what is the problem? It might have brought in more money, but has it

increased business investment in the long term. It is not just about

cutting corporation tax, but it is on the ability of businesses to

thrive and prosper. Business investment in the UK is below are

industrial competitors. Wages are stagnating which doesn't indicate

businesses are not doing well. Let me get it right, you are arguing if

we increase business tax by a third, that will increase investment? I am

not saying that. You just did. Know I didn't, I said reducing business

tax isn't enough, you have to invest in the things businesses need to

thrive and prosper. You have also got to lessen the burden on

business. You have announced a financial transaction tax. Your own

labour Mayor of London said he has vowed to fight it. He said I do not

want a unilateral tax on business in our city, so why are you proceeding

with it? This isn't a new initiative, there is a growing

global pressure to make sure we have fairness in the financial sector.

Ordinary British people are paying for our banking crisis they didn't

cause. Another important point, stamp duty reserve tax was brought

in in the 1600 and there have been little reforms. The sector has

changed and we have do provide changes to the system for that

change. High-frequency trading where we have a state of affairs where a

lot of shares are traded on computers within milliseconds. We

need a tax system that keeps up with that. What happens if they move the

computers to another country? Emily Thornaby said this morning, other

countries had already introduced a financial transaction tax, what

other countries have done that? There are ten countries looking at

introducing a transaction tax. Which ones have done it so far? They will

be later announcing a final package, going through the finer detail at

the moment. But the European Commission tried to get this done in

2011 and it still hasn't happened in any of these countries. But you are

going to go ahead unilaterally and risk these businesses, which

generate a lot of money, moving to other jurisdictions. There is not a

significant risk of that happening. The stamp duty reserve tax is levied

at either where the person or company is domiciled or where the

instrument is issued rather than worth the transaction takes place.

This tax in itself is not enough to make people leave this country in

terms of financial services because there is more to keep these

businesses here in terms of the investment we are making, the

economy that Labour will build, in terms of productivity improvement we

will see. Thank you very much, Rebecca Long-Bailey.

And listening to that was the Home Office Minister, Brandon Lewis.

Over the years, you have got corporation tax by 20%, it is lower

than international standards, so why are so many global companies who

make money out of Great Britain, still not paying 20%? It is one of

the problems with the point Labour were making and Rebecca could not

answer, these companies can move around the world. One of the

important things is having a low tax economy but these businesses, it

encourages them to come at a rate they are prepared to pay. People may

say they are right, if they were paying 19, 20% incorporation tax.

But they are not. Google runs a multi-million pound corporation and

did not pay anywhere near 20%. There are companies that are trading

internationally and that is why we have to get this work done with our

partners around the world. Has there been an improvement? It is more than

they were paying before. Whether it is Google or any other company,

alongside them being here, apart from the tax they pay, it is the

people they employ. The deal was, if you cut the business tax, the

corporation tax on profits, we would get more companies coming here and

more companies paying their tax. It seems it doesn't matter how low, a

number of companies just pay a derisory amount and you haven't been

able to change that. As you outlined, the income taken from the

changing corporation tax has gone up. That is from established British

companies, not from these international companies. It is

because more companies are coming here and paying tax. That is a good

thing. There is always more to do and that is why we want to crack

down. In the last few weeks in the Finnish Parliament, Labour refused

to put to another ?8.7 billion of tax take we could have got by

cracking down further. You claim to have made great progress on cracking

down on people and companies to pay the tax they should. But the tax gap

is the difference between what HMRC takes in and what it should take in.

It has barely moved in five years, so where is the progress? He have

brought in 150 billion more where we have cracked down on those tax

schemes. The gap is still the same as it was five years ago. It's gone

from 6.8, 26.5. It has gone down. The Prime Minister and the

Chancellor said they want to continue work on to get more money

on these companies while still having a competitive rate to

encourage these companies. While big business and the wealthy continue to

prosper, the Office for Budget Responsibility tell us those on

average earnings in this country will be earning less in real terms

by 2021 than they did in 2008. How can that be fair? I don't see it

that way. I haven't seen the figures you have got. What I can say to you,

Andrew, we have made sure the minimum wage has gone up, the actual

income tax people pay has gone down. So in their pocket, real terms,

people have more money. You are the self-styled party of work. We keep

emphasising work. Under your government you can work for 13 years

and still not earn any more at the end of it, and you did at the start.

Where is the reward for effort in that? I have not seen those figures.

There are 2.8 million more people, more jobs in economy than there was.

1000 jobs every day and people are working and developing through their

careers. This is what I thought was odd in what Rebecca was saying,

investing in people is what the apprenticeship levy is about,

companies are investing their works force to take more opportunities

that there. We are talking about fairness, politicians talk about

hard-working people and we know the average earnings are no higher than

they were in 2008. We know the pay and bonuses of senior executives

have continued to grow and the Institute for Fiscal Studies has

shown 3 million of the poorest households will lose an average of

?2500 a year in the next Parliament, benefits frozen, further sanctions

kick in. 3 million of the poorest losing 2500. Under the Tories, one

law for the rich and another for the poor. It is quite wrong. First of

all, we have got to be fair to the taxpayer who is funding the welfare

and benefit system. Which is why the welfare was right. Get more people

in work and then it is important to get more people upscaling. As that

allowance rises, people have more of the money they earn in their pocket

to be able to use in the economy. People will be worse off. 2500,

among the poorest already. They will have more money in their pocket as

we increase the allowance before people pay tax. We have seen

millions of people coming out of tax altogether. The reason I ask these

questions, you and the Prime Minister go on and on about the just

about managing classes. I am talking about the just about managing and

below that. It is all talk, you haven't done anything for them. We

have made sure they have an increasing minimum wage, it has gone

up more under us than any other previous government. Their wages

will be still lower in real terms. Let me come on to this plan for

housing. We have announced a new plan to increase affordable housing,

social housing, some council housing and social housing built by the

associations. How much money is behind this? It is part of the 1.4

billion announced in the Autumn Statement. How many homes will you

get for 1.4 billion? That depends on the negotiations with local

authorities. It is local authorities, who know the area best.

I will not put a number on that. 1.4 billion, if you price the house at

100,000, which is very low, particularly for the South, back at

you 14,000 new homes. That is it. What we have seen before, how the

local government can leveraged to build thousands more homes. That is

what we want to see across the country. It is not just about the

money, for a lot of local authorities it is about the

expertise and knowledge on how to do this. That is why support from the

housing communities minister will help. What is the timescale, how

many more affordable homes will be built? I will not put a number on

it. You announced it today, so you cannot tell me how many more or what

the target is? It is a matter of working with the local authorities

who know what their local needs are, what land they have got available.

What we saw through the local elections with the Metro mayors,

they want to deliver in their areas, whether it is the West of England,

the north-east, Liverpool, Manchester and we want to work with

them. You have said variations of this for the past seven years and I

want some credibility. When you cannot tell us how much money, what

the target and timescale is, and this government, under which

affordable house building has fallen to a 24 year low. 1.2 million

families are on waiting lists for social housing to rent. That is your

record. Why should we believe a word you say? This is different to what

we have been doing over the last two years. We want to develop and have a

strong and stable economy that can sustain that 1.4 billion homes. This

is important. In 2010, we inherited the lowest level of house building,

75,000 new homes. That is about 189,000 over the last four years.

That is a big step forward after the crash, getting people back into the

industry. More first-time buyers onto the market. Final question, in

2010, 2011, your first year in government, there were 60,000

affordable homes built. May not be enough, but last day it was 30 2000.

So why should we trust anything you say about this? On housing, we have

delivered. We have delivered more social housing. Double what Labour

did in 13 years, in just five years. This is what this policy is about,

working with local authorities to deliver more homes to people in

their local areas. Thank you. Now, they have a deficit

of between 15 and 20% in the polls, but Jeremy Corbyn and those

around him insist Labour can win. If the polls are right they've got

three and half weeks to change voters' minds and persuade those

fabled undecided voters We enlisted the polling organisation

YouGov to help us find out how the performance of party leaders

will affect behaviour Leeds, a city of three quarters

of a million people, eight Parliamentary seats and home

to our very own focus group. Our panel was recruited

from a variety of backgrounds and the majority say they haven't

decided who to vote for yet. Watching behind the glass,

two experts on different sides Giles Cunningham, who headed up

political press at Downing Street under David Cameron

and Aaron Bastani, Corbin supporter, under David Cameron

and Aaron Bastani, Corbyn supporter, I think Theresa May sees herself

as a pound shop Thatcher. Milliband's policies but when it

came about who you want,

if you wake up on maybe a 2015, We found in a couple of focus

groups, people saying we'd be quite relieved,

even though some of those same people have been saying we quite

like the Labour policies. I think the fact that Corbyn's

going so hard on his values, this is a really progressive

manifesto, they live But I think that's a new challenge,

that wasn't there in 2015. Is there anyone here that

you don't recognise? After a little warm up,

the first exercise, recognising I think it's nice to have a strong

woman in politics, I do. But I've got to say,

when she comes on the news, I kind of do think,

here we go again. Tell me about Tim Farron, what

are your impressions of Tim Farron? It isn't going to do anything,

it isn't going to change anything. You'll be surprised to hear it's

actually the Greens. Strong and stable leadership

in the national interest. Yes, Team May, it's

the British equivalent of make What do we think about this one

for the many and not the few? It's not quite as bad

as strong and stable, but it will probably get

on our nerves after a while. We must seize that chance today

and every day until June the 8th. But that's not quite my

question, my question is, if you are Prime Minister,

we will leave, come hell or high water, whatever is on the table

at the end of the negotiations? If we win the election,

we'll get a good deal with Europe. Assertive and in control

and he felt comfortable But the second one, I thought

he was very hesitant. I thought he was kind of,

hovering around, skirting around and that's the second

time I've seen a similar interview with the question

being asked regarding Brexit. I don't think I'd have

any confidence with him You think you are going up

against some quite strong people, how are you going to stand

up for us? When you are in negotiations,

you need to be tough. And actually is right

to be tough sometimes, particularly when you are doing

something for the country. There's a reason for talking

about strong and stable leadership. It's about the future

of the country, it's It's just that people kind of listen

to that kind of thing and think Both on The One Show

and in the news. She attracts the public better

than what Corbyn does. She didn't answer the question

in a more articular way than Corbyn Imagine that Theresa

May is an animal. So, in your minds,

what animal is coming to mind I've done a Pekinese because I think

she's all bark and no bite. Alpaca because she's

superior looking and woolly I don't think his policies

are for the modern, real world. A mouse because they are weak

and they can be easily bullied, but also they can catch

you by surprise if you're What do you take away

from what you saw then, and what message would you send back

to the Tories now? I think what came over is people see

Theresa May as a strong politician, not everyone likes her,

but you don't need to be liked to be elected,

because ultimately it's about who do you trust with your future

and your security. I think what I also take out

of that focus group, was it was a group of floating

voters, there was no huge appetite for the Lib Dems and there was no

huge appetite for Ukip. So my messaged back to CCHQ

would be stick to the plan. I thought the response

to the manifesto was excellent. It's clear that people aren't

particularly keen on Theresa May, There are some associations with her

about strength and stability, which is exactly what the Tory party

want of course, but they are not positive and nobody thinks

that she has a vision So, what I'd say the Jeremy Corbyn,

what I'd say to the Labour Party is, they need to really emphasise

the manifesto in Jeremy Corbyn himself has to perform

out of his skin and I think he has to reemphasise those

characteristics which may be have come to the fore may be

over the last 12 months, resilience, strength and the fact

that he's come this far, why not take that final step and go

into ten Downing Street? We're joined now by the American

political consultant For the sake of this discussion,

assume the polls at the moment are broadly right, is there any hope for

Mr Corbyn in the undecided voters? Know, and this is a very serious

collection with serious consequences to who wins. Nobody cares whether

you can draw and what animal they represent, they want to know where

they stand, and I felt that was frivolous. I come to Britain to

watch elections because I learned from here. Your elections are more

substantial, more serious, more policy and less about personality

and that peace was only about personality. That's partly because

Mrs May has decided to make this a presidential election. You can see

on the posters it is all Team May. I agree with that, and in her language

she says not everyone benefits from a Conservative government, I don't

see how using anything Republicans have used in the past. In fact her

campaign is more of a centrist Democrats but it is a smart strategy

because it pushes Corbyn further to the left. Of course you said Hillary

Clinton have won. On election night the polling was so bad in America,

the exit polls that were done, the BBC told America she had won. No, I

was anchoring the programme that night, I ignored your tweet. The BBC

had the same numbers. Yes, but we did not say she had won, I can

assure you of that. Because of people like you we thought she had

but we didn't broadcast it. That was a smart approach. My point is other

than teasing you, maybe there is hope for Jeremy Corbyn. I think you

will have one of the lowest turnout in modern history and I think Labour

will fall to one of the lowest percentages, not percentage of

number of seats they have had, and this will be a matter of

soul-searching for both political parties. What you do with a sizeable

majority, and she has a responsibility to tell the British

people exactly what happens as she moves forward. He and Labour will

have to take a look at whether they still represent a significant slice

of the British population. Do you see a realignment in British

politics taking place? I see a crumbling of the left and yet there

is still a significant percentage of the British population that once

someone who is centre-left. And they like a lot of Mr Corbyn's policies.

I'm listening to Michael foot. I went to school here in the 1980s and

I feel like I'm watching the Labour Party of 35 years ago, in a

population that wants to focus on the future, not the past. Thank you.

It's just gone 11.35, you're watching the Sunday Politics.

We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now

Hello and welcome to your local part of the show -

live from Newcastle - in the week the Prime Minister came

to the North East and claimed Labour's leadership was abandoning

Labour's campaign co-ordinator and Wansbeck candidate Ian Lavery -

working-class to his core - will no doubt have plenty

Also with me this week: Fiona Mills who's standing for Ukip

in Carlisle, Simon Clarke - who's aiming to take the marginal

seat of Middlesbrough South for the Conservatives, and Julie Porksen

who's trying to win back Berwick for the Liberal Democrats.

Also coming up: We're in County Durham with the first

of our films looking at the big issues of

Let's start though with that visit to the North East

The Prime Minister had a message to working-class voters and she went

deep into Labour territory in North Shields to deliver it.

In a visit that also included brief stops

in Northumberland and Darlington, she said Jeremy Corbyn didn't

Millions of people here in the north-east of England

and across our country have loyally given their support to

We respect that parents and grandparents

taught their children and

grandchildren that Labour was a party that

shared their values and

But across the country today traditional

Labour supporters are increasingly looking at what Jeremy Corbyn

He, I'm sure you will scoff at the talk of taking working-class Labour

votes. She wants is secretly into an airfield miles away from anywhere to

an invited audience of 20 to 25 invited people without speaking and

listening to ordinary working class people and then being moved to North

Shields, somewhere that the Tories tried to close down 13 years ago to

an invited audience. This is an insult to the people of the

north-east. It is the ultimate insult for a Prime Minister to waltz

into this area and not speak to anybody other than invited guests

and claim to be a champion of the workers. They shouldn't take the

voters of this region as fools and I'm sure they are not. Let's put

that point assignment. -- to Simon. If she is so keen on appealing to

these voters why should not talking to any? I imagine the doorstep Day

in and day out. The number of conversations I have with photos

that begin with I have always voted Labour backed is quite striking. --

but... She is taking questions day in and day out. From party

activists. From journalists. What I see in community and community

across the area and rural and urban areas as well is that people are out

fed up with a complacent labour establishment which is totally out

of tune with them. Ian, you must have heard from Labour candidates in

the doorstep who have heard of some voters wanted to go Theresa May. I

haven't heard anyone say to me that they will be turning from the Labour

Party. Even in the marginal constituencies such assignments? --

as Simon? When I have been on the doorstep that has not been anybody

who said that to me. Not one. That suggest the polls are wrong. It

would be the first time. What might convince the voters of some more

sincerity for the Prime Minister is word of some investment? The

platform is not about making big announcements but delivering strong

and stable leadership. We're not in the business of promising money like

sweeties like the Labour Party. We are about making sure that as a

credible programme for jobs and growth. Unemployment in the

north-east is down sharply since 2010. The strong and stable stand by

it. Don't hold on for investment. -- sound bite. People want credible

Government for serious times and we are providing that. Fiona Mills,

these traditional Labour voters Theresa May is appealing to other

very people recruited to Ukip and flooding away from you? She is right

that the Labour Party don't represent the traditional working

class people in a morbid Ukip two. Voters tell me I can't possibly vote

Conservative but I will vote Ukip. The reason that Labour voters might

ford Conservative this time is to get Brexit and no other reason. --

vote. Julie is this not a problem in Berwick where conservatives may

shore up the boat but people will be put off by Labour who want to see

Brexit happen? Brexit has hardly come up on the doorstep and I had

been out and about. I meet a lot of people say I have always voted

Labour but I really need to defeat the Tories. The other clueless

Government we have had a long time. -- the most cruel Government. You

don't hear anyone saying I want Brexit so I'm not voting Liberal

Democrat? And maximum I have met one day. I have also met a lot of

conservatives who are really crossed that the Conservative MP did not

tell anybody that she was Brexit here before standing in 2015. It

will affect rural areas are significantly. Let's talk about who

will be standing. Now, let's talk about who'll be

standing in the General Election - Nominations have closed

and Labour, Conservative and the Liberal Democrats

are fielding a full slate of candidates in all 39

constituencies across Cumbria But there's been some

informal deals done The Greens won't be standing

in Carlisle, Copeland, Workington, Bishop Auckland or Hartlepool

in the hope of consolidating the Labour vote - and stopping

a Conservative landslide. has decided not to stand in seats

where they believe there's another That includes Blyth Valley,

Berwick and Middlesbrough South. I am the only candidate in the seat

we did a back Brexit. I think Fiona and I would be as one that we remain

very distinct parties with very distinct agendas. The Ukip agenda is

not mine. There has been no deal done and as far as I'm aware Ukip

couldn't find a candidate to feel. -- field. In some of the seats are

you saying we will leave it to the Conservatives? Ukip puts country

sitting MP who was a Brexit MP and sitting MP who was a Brexit MP and

campaign to leave we will not oppose them. In Stockton South the

candidate put a referendum bill in Parliament. I am standing in

who was for remain and I don't think who was for remain and I don't think

his heart was fully in it. I think it was along party lines. In the

north-east you're fielding 26 candidates, 25 men and one woman.

Whether the woman? Are they behind the fridge? We have two women can do

Cumbria. We don't have all women short list for other parties do. It

is absolutely true merit. Through merit there is only one woman? There

must of been. We do not discriminate. Should you not have

followed the green example, Julie? In Bishop Auckland and Hartlepool

Labour could lose because the Liberal Democrats could peel off

from Labour? We are really pleased that Caroline Lucas in Brighton has

been spotted. It is madness if you want to stop Brexit. I think what is

really important is that we have strong individuals representing

local areas and key issues and that is why we are really pleased that

Caroline Lucas will hopefully when Brighton. I am in force interested

in Brighton, I have to tell you. Ian, you have a full list of

candidates not all of them are running the local campaigns. I'm

looking at a leaflet by a candidate and it does not mention she's a

Labour candidate. We are standing candidates in every constituency.

That is really important. There are no deals being done

behind-the-scenes to let one party have an advantage. We're looking at

every vote in every town and in this country to stop some of them are

looking for every bought by making sure it is a personal vote for them

and not to mention Jeremy Corbyn on even the Labour Party. I have been

campaigning since I was a young boy and different people camping in

different ways. The two different things on the leaflet. Some include

some things and some others. That is the nature of the game. Things have

not changed in that. But the reason why these deals are being done with

Ukip and the Conservatives, quite obvious that has been a lot of deals

done with them, is because Theresa May has taken the Conservative Party

that far to the right and the one of the party with Ukip. I disagree

completely. We have an excellent manifesto which is much better than

the conservative one. I will be sending it off in London on

Wednesday. Completely severed parties. One thing that hasn't

changed about the conservative is a bunch of southern candidates in

northern seats. Hastings and Chelsea and Westminster. We have a strong

slate of north-east candidates and I grew up in Middlesbrough in the

constituency I am representing. In terms of my fellow candidates, Jacob

Young is from Middlesbrough and Peter Gibson in Redcar grew up

there. The idea that Peter Mandelson was from Hartlepool or Tony Blair

was from Sedgefield, it's about getting the right person for the

right job. Now: Labour said this week they want

a "Brexit for Jobs" - And where will the new jobs

of the future come from? Our reporter David Macmillan has

been to the constituency of Sedgefield in County Durham

to try and find out.. It's a prize all our

politicians are chasing. A world-famous company creating jobs

and investing millions in their patch, In the

Sedgefield constituency This constituency was made famous

by its former MP Tony Blair, who entertained world

leaders including George W It's still held by Labour

but these days the Making things is what

people like to do in They build showers at this

plant in Newton Aycliffe. The boss here says

it is a great time to It has been a good couple

of years for Newton Aycliffe, and the estate's

very busy, very full. I think the inward investment

with Hitachi has made a and I think we've seen

a few things smartened up but the estate is full and it's busy

and it's good to see. The strong manufacturing base helps

keep unemployment rates low and wages high compared

to the north-east average. But there are parts of this

constituency where pay and opportunities seem far from

abundant, especially in old coalmine At this job club in Ferryhill,

people say the few vacancies available

are low-paid and insecure. I went in on Tuesday after the bank

holiday and they said, Oh, you've Then turned around and said,

We'll have you back I've gone in on night

shift, half past ten, and they've sent us home at 11 o'clock,

Go home, we don't need you. The unemployment rate

in the north-east is still but that masks big variations

across the region. The rate of people claiming

unemployment benefit is just 2.3% in the City of Durham yet

it is 8.3% in Middlesbrough. And while wages in

Stockton South are close to the national average,

in Redcar weekly pay packets The impact of public sector cuts

which has led to job losses and pay freezes has also been

felt across the region. What we've seen is tens

of thousands of public So that is an impact

on real human beings, real On people who are still

in the public sector because of the Government continued

public pay cap, actually their wages have dropped

in real value and people

are reliant on food banks. Back in Sedgefield high-tech firms

at NETPark are trying to The outcome of Brexit could be

a decisive factor for them. I think if we had

access to the single market, it would certainly

make our life easier. We have to have a plan

for all eventualities. As long as there are

opportunities and we can still get in there with a minimum of red

tape and a maximum of open opportunity of cross-border

trading with no tariff, The local Chamber of

Commerce say the region's be given a prominent role in the

next Government's economic plans. If we can be given the power

to invest now in developing our key sectors, things like logistics

in this region like bio-sciences, silence we can start to be

the development be at the forefront of an industry

that is world-leading. And that is the way

we will work our way out of The economy is always

a key political battleground. And the issues raised

in Sedgefield will be crucial in deciding the outcome

of this general election. Well the Green Party wants

to increase public spending to create jobs while tackling low

pay and zero hour contracts. Our reporter Bob Cooper

asked how their approach I think it seems like Jeremy Corbyn

has been reading our manifesto from 2015

to get lots of his ideas. Well the Green Party wants

to increase public spending to create jobs while tackling low

pay and zero hour contracts. Our reporter Bob Cooper

asked how their approach I think it seems like Jeremy Corbyn

has been reading our manifesto from 2015

to get lots of his ideas. distinctions in how

we want to spend money. Its proven that further

investment that are more jobs renewable

energy then there are things like nuclear,

which So I think that accept the

differences in how we would want to We were talking

about the Living Wage Foundation before it something that

Labour was talking about. Jack Lenox who was going to be

the Green's candidate in Copeland - until the party stood aside

in the seat this week. You always hear that unemployment

has fallen but when you scrape the surface, the clip you have seen

shows that not only have got below average wages in this region but

double the average unemployment rates. We have people who are

underemployed. It is a blackspot for people working on serial our

contracts. Part-time employment. We're going to change that. With

regard to Brexit the Labour is fully behind the triggering of Article 50

Brexit, quite simply is a Brexit in Brexit, quite simply is a Brexit in

the best interests of the nation. The people of this nation. Not the

best interest of our political parties. What are you going to do

about wages and contracts? We will be setting up investment banks in

the regions and bringing investment aid and better jobs and highly

skilled jobs with better wages and conditions. Our business is not

going to bring those jobs and you will bring them more tax? We will

bring secure jobs and highly skilled jobs in this region, something we've

been suffering from for many years. Simon, watches saw in the film is

typical of employers. They are happy at the moment but concerned about

any future but they don't have access to the single market and

might be tariffs? What I have from Ian was rhetoric. Labour have no

plan to create the jobs we need. I have been speaking to employers

across Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland. That is back to my job

and I went to an engineering from a few weeks ago that is a major

exporter in defence and energy. They are sending products all over the

world. What I had from them as they are not concerned at this stage

about the outline of the deal. They are in fact happy that as an

exporter, we are the only exporting region in the country. Nissan went

to Downing Street because they were concerned about what might be an

offer and tariffs would be death for exporters and jobs in this region.

She said no deal was better than a bad deal. No deal is better than a

bad deal but tariffs are very sectoral. In the car industry

tariffs are not nearly as high as in some other areas. I am saying that

as a deal to be done but don't think as a deal to be done but don't think

we should scaremonger about the impact of tariffs if that is where

we end up. I don't think it is in our best interests are the best

interests of Europe. I think that is a deal to be done. We know the

Liberal Democrat position is on Brexit but not too much about how do

you ensure the economy rise in the north-east. -- thrives. We depend a

lot on Europe. I have read from companies who are very concerned

because that is all this talk about if we leave this single market with

another trade deal. You don't get exports from trade deals, you get

them from companies having customers. Another really big issue

that comes up on the doorstep, we find, as with the NHS and education

and with the Conservative cuts to the public sector it is a really

important employer. In Northumberland would apply on

tourism a lot so we don't have that and it comes from outside and also

the region, so they don't have good jobs and people with money to spend

the whole of Northumberland is at risk in that sector. Fiona Mills

you're still asking businesses to take a step into the unknown of

Brexit. There are no guarantees the economy will stay on track. It will

flourish. I agree with the Conservative position that no deal

would be better than a bad deal. We buy more from Europe than they buy

from us that is not a problem there. No deal would be tariffs on

employers across the region they would have to try to sell their

goods into Europe with those tariffs on top. I really don't think that

will happen. It is not interests of European countries to do that. I

would like to say about Ukip that we support small businesses and that

would generate jobs in the region. We want to get rid of EU red tape

and Abbott encouraged people to set up their own businesses and employ

people. One specific idea, Ian. I note your idea still to be fully

published. To create jobs in the north-east. To have an investment

back here in the north-east. -- investment bank. Simon. We have the

new Tees Valley mayor delivering targeted investment. We have to stay

part of the single market because we need that for agricultural produce

we cannot survive on the world market.

206 candidates are now about to come knocking on your door -

including the Durham Cobbler who's standing in Tynemouth.

And the intriguingly-named Mr Fishfinger in

There's a full list by the way on the BBC election website.W

Tories are saying. It is a very emotive subject and we have run out

of time. On Thursday nominations closed

in the 650 parliamentary seats across the country,

so now we know exactly who's We've been analysing the parties'

candidates to find out what they might tell us

about the make-up of the House Well, we know Theresa May is

committed to delivering Brexit and analysis of Conservative

candidates has shown that in their top 100 target seats,

37 candidates supported leave during last year's referendum

campaign and 20 supported remain; 43

have not made public In the last parliament,

the vast majority of Labour MPs were hostile to Jeremy Corbyn so how

supportive are Labour Well, of 50 of Labour's

top 100 target seats 17 candidates have expressed

support for Mr Corbyn. 20 candidates supported Owen Smith

in last year's leadership contest or have expressed

anti-Corbyn sentiment, and If they won those,

the Labour benches would be marginally more sympathetic

to Mr Corbyn than they are now. What do the figures tell us

about where the other Well, the Lib Dems have decided not

to stand against the Greens in Brighton Pavilion,

and are fielding 629 candidates this year -

that's two fewer than 2015. The number of Ukip candidates has

fallen dramatically. They are standing in 247 fewer

constituencies than 2015, throwing their support behind

solidly pro-Brexit Tories in some areas such as Lewes

and Norfolk North. The Greens are fielding

103 fewer candidates than at the last election,

standing down to help other progressive candidates

in some places. The most liking statistic is the

demise in Ukip candidates, is this their swansong? And I think so. It

is remarkable how few Ukip candidates are standing. It is hard

to see they will suddenly revive in the next couple of years. I think

this is probably the end. Frank Luntz mentioned the fragmentation of

the left was a feature of this election, but also there is the

consolidation of the right, and if you take the things together that

could explain why the polls are where they are. Absolutely, that's

precisely what happened at the start of the 1980s, the right was

incredibly united and that's when we started talking about majorities of

over 100 or so. No matter what the size of Theresa May's majority, it

will be the total collapse of Ukip, but not just because we are now

leaving the EU and that was their only reason for being, but a whole

lot of people voted for Ukip because they felt the Tories were no longer

listening. Theresa May has given the impression that she is listening,

and that is the biggest possible thing that could happen to the Tory

vote. Fragmentation of the left, consolidation of the right? It's one

of the lessons that is never learnt, it happened in the 1980s, it doesn't

take much for the whole thing to fracture so now you have on the

centre-left the SNP, the Labour Party, the Greens, the Liberal

Democrats all competing for the same votes and when you have, fleetingly

perhaps, large numbers coalescing on the right in one party, there is

only going to be one outcome. It happens regularly. It doesn't mean

the Tories haven't got their own fragility. Two years ago, David

Cameron and George Osborne the dominant figures, neither are in

Parliament now which is a symptom of the fragility this election is

disguising. Mrs May's position in a way reminds me of Mrs Thatcher in

the 1980s, I won't be outflanked on the right, Nicolas Sarkozy in

France, I won't be outflanked on the right, so the National Front didn't

get through either timed he ran to the second round on like this time,

and now Mrs May on Brexit won't be outflanked Iver and as a result has

seen off right flank. And also she is looking to the left as well with

some of the state interventions. What was interesting about the

analysis you showed a few minutes ago was the number of Tory

candidates who have apparently not declared which way they voted in the

referendum, and you would have thought if this election was all

about Brexit, as some would claim, that would become an unsustainable

position, and actually more it's about leadership. But the point that

I'm now hearing from a number of Labour candidates that they are

seeing Tory leaflets that don't even have the Tory candidate's name on

them, it is just about Theresa May. I am glad they are keeping to the

law because by law they have to put it on. It has been harder for some

of the smaller parties too because of the speed of the election being

called. We have the manifesto is coming out this week. I think Labour

Forshaw on Tuesday, we are not yet sure when the Tories will bring

bears out. I suggest one thing, it will at least for people like me

bring an end to the question you will have to wait for the manifesto.

And Rebecca Long baby will never have that excuse again, isn't it

wonderful! She is not the only one. When you are trying to take the

north and Midlands from Labour, I would go to one or the other. For

me, I can barely hold back my excitement over the Tory manifesto.

This will be, I think, the most important day for the British

government for the next five years. That wasn't irony there? You

actually meant that? I'm not even being cynical at all on Sunday

Politics! This is a huge day and it's because I think we will see...

I don't think Mrs May will play it safe and I don't think we will get

the broadbrush stuff that she might be advised to do. I think she will

lay out precisely what you want to do over the next five years and take

some big risks. Then finally after a year of this guessing and

theorising, we will finally work out what Mrs May is all about. She will

say she doesn't want the next parliament to be all about Brexit,

though she knows that's the next important thing she has to deliver

in some way, so she gets a mandate for that if the polls are right but

she does have very different ideas from

Mr Cameron about how to run a country. She will I assume one to

mandate for what these different ideas are. Otherwise there is no

point in holding an early election. You will get a majority, but if you

get a mandate to carry on implementing the Cameron and Osborne

manifesto it would be utterly pointless. I agree, it is the

pivotal event of the election and it will be interesting to see the

degree to which she expands on the line which interests me about its

time to look at the good that government can do. Because in a way

this moves the debate on in UK politics from, from 97 the Blair

Brown governments were insecure about arguing about the role of

government. Cameron Osborne government similarly so, so here you

have a Labour Party talking about the role of government and the

state, and Tory leader apparently doing so was well. I think that will

be really interesting to see whether it is fleshed out in any significant

way. And it is not a natural Tory message. Harold Macmillan talked

about the role of the state, Ted Heath Mark two was pretty big on the

state, the industrial policy and so on, and even if it is not thought to

be that Tory, does she get away with it because she deliver such a big

victory if that's what she does deliver? Just inject a little note

of scepticism, I wonder how much of this is authentically Theresa May. I

was interested to and talk to someone who used to sit in cabinet

meetings during which Theresa May never expressed an opinion on

anything outside the Home Office briefs. Other ministers were roving

all over their colleagues' briefs. So where are the ideas coming from?

I think we can point to Nick Timothy. One of her closest advisers

in Downing Street. It will be interesting to see how that evolves.

On Thursday I think we will all be talking about something called

Urdington Toryism. Urdington is the suburb of Birmingham where Nick

Timothy comes from, who is very much Theresa May's policy brain and

leading inspiration. Urdington Toryism is about connecting the

party with traditional working class voters, and their belief to do that

is not just taking away government out of their lives but showing them

that government can actually help their lives. It can be a force for

good to rebuild the trust. A lot of what Mrs May talks about is all...

It is talk and then a lot of it suddenly goes by the wayside. What

happened to worker directors on the boards. It is designed to appeal to

that constituency and then nothing happens. She had an excuse before in

the sense that it wasn't in the 2015 manifesto and she had a small

majority so therefore she arguably had to water down some of the stuff

for example in her Tory conference speech, which had a lot of this

active government material in it. If she puts it in the manifesto, it is

a sign she plans to do it and will have no excuse if she then gets

nervous afterwards because it will be in there. If it wasn't for

Brexit, this great overwhelming issue, I think this election will be

seen as quite a significant development in terms of an argument

around the role of government, much-needed. But Brexit

unfortunately overshadows it all. As much as we like our arguments over

the role of government we will hear strong and stable, stable and strong

ad nauseam, aren't we? Absolutely, and we heard the same old lines from

the Labour Party as well so they are all at it. It will be a fascinating

week, stop talking it down! Thanks to our panel.

The Daily Politics will be back on BBC Two at noon

I'll be back here at the same time on BBC One next Sunday.

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