27/05/2012 Sunday Politics North West

And in the north-west: why buy today as Bowe, will it really stop

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1674 seconds

anti-social behaviour. We get the Hello, I'm Arif Ansari. In the next

20 minutes - Goodbye, ASBO Hello, CRIMBO. But will it really stop

anti-social behaviour? We get the view from the sharp end.

But before we get there, let's introduce this week's guests - the

conservative MP for Pendle Andrew Stephenson and Labour's Graham

Jones for Hyndburn. As I'm sure you'll agree, political

jargon is to be avoided. But the word ASBO has entered the

dictionary. And it might soon disappear. Because the government's

outlined proposals to replace anti social behaviour orders with other

measures. That won't go down well with Jack Straw, the Blackburn MP

who invented ASBOs in 1998 when he was Home Secretary. On this

programme in December he warned the government not to tinker. They have

worked, people understand them. They have contributed to this

record drop in crime. The first ever period since the war where

crime has gone that way, not that way. Don't waste your time,

reinventing it. Well maybe Theresa May's not a

regular viewer of the Sunday Politics North West. She's

certainly ignored Jack Straw's advice and was in Manchester this

week outlining her proposals to reform ASBOs.

Anti-social behaviour, not quite crime, but it can certainly feel

like it. ASBOs were first introduced in 1998. There are now

19 types of orders. But are they working? I don't think they've

worked a tour. It is worth giving it a go. Communities can get

together and putting complaints procedures. They were just carry on

doing what they want to do. What can be done? Nothing at all.

Home Secretary seems to agree, Theresa May is stamping her ideas

down on Manchester and the Hon. They are proposing reducing the

number of orders from 19-6, the key ones replacing ASBO will be

criminal behaviour orders, and injunctions. It will be begun in

Manchester. The community trigger enabled them to say to the police

you have to do something about this, Greater Manchester Police are

willing to trial this to see how it operates. Some people fear or the

Labour government lost focus. the north-west the number of ASBO

has peaked at 881, for -- four years ago there were 291, then it

increased to 371. In Droylsden in east Manchester, they have problems

with anti-social behaviour, they built a youth centre as part of a

longer term solution. I feel that they have got such a good

relationship with the community, they do know what is going on in

terms of anti-social behaviour. If there are problems they are dealt

with immediately. The Home Secretary wants a more effective

system, the danger is if it is perceived to be a weaker one.

We are joined by Lesley Pullman, in her community from north-east

Manchester, give us an idea of some of the anti-social behaviour you

have had to combat. We have been saying this for 10 years. It is a

crime which has been brought down under the umbrella of anti-social

behaviour, that is why the ASBO came in. Intimidation, then you

start getting intimidated, my vehicle was broken into. Once you

start complaining, you have whole families, three families we had,

with properties broken into. So, you have to live with it. They will

break into your house for nothing. I took them on. You were very

successful at that. If the system is reformed in the way the

government is proposing, with that help you? No. This is tinkering

round the edges. This will create more victims in my opinion, the

ethos you have to vilify people before you get anything done, I

couldn't get five people to do this on my street. We saw in the peace,

the people who we were talking to, ordinary people, they said we are

not sure that the current system works. That is because people are

usually ignorant of the laws and what they are entitled to. The

service providers, the police and council are not doing their jobs

properly. Let us pick up with Andrew Stephenson, Lesley is not

convinced about these reforms, how would you persuade her? I would say

there is going to be a trial. That is in Manchester, in her area. As

we saw in the footage, there were conversations with people in

Manchester. That was the area are used to work in. I hope during this

trial period we will see an improvement on the ASBO has, I am

delighted the chief constables have welcomed this. Is it going to be an

improvement if it is already working? This is a reduction on a

number down to around six categories, we are reducing the

bureaucracy. We are allowing the orders to be implemented sooner,

which is one of the big concerns. It has become like a badge of

honour, almost. That is said a lot. People will be saying in the next

few months, the CRIMBO is the badge of honour. They will make a thing

of it. There should be nothing like it, it should be saved the order.

You can pass on legislation as much as you want. My concern in

Lancashire is that we have lost 600 officers. There's no point if

officers are being reduced. Labour were introducing legislation left,

right and centre before. Crime went down by 43 per cent. A you don't

want to see any changes to this? The old ASBO should have been

improved, I want to see more people being sent to prison. The looking

at the figures, in terms of the number of ASBO imposed on people,

it looks as if the government and police took their eye off the ball.

The Labour government, I am sorry, but the previous Labour government

saw the demise of the ASBO. They lost their nerve, stopped sending

people to prison. Once you stop sending them to prison, they

continue to preach them. The curfews, the harassment orders.

There was a big campaign against the ASBO, people labelled it as a

failure and it was not. It got bad press. The government decided they

would ease off a little bit, and it was the right direction initially.

They should have carried on in that direction and been firmer. Do you

want to see more people tackled with these orders? An increase in

numbers? Yes, I think it was only about one per cent of cases

previously. We have to make sure the victim is the number one in the

centre of everything we do. I really do hope for that this trial

will reassure people, like Lesley, people with direct experience.

ask Theresa May how much they will give us in Manchester to set up a

support service directly for law- abiding people to come forward as

witnesses, with CRIMBOs, not one penny will be put forward. They

will be spending millions on the criminals and criminal families.

They will not invest in law-abiding people to come forward. The point

that Andrew Stephenson is trying to make is that if you have a

situation where there are so many orders, as you have said yourself,

some are not even being used, surely making that system slightly

quicker will be better. It has not got the teeth of the ASBOs. She

says they may go to prison, they will not. I would put money on it.

Serious criminals and sex offenders included. The victims are not being

put first now. They are being put down the priority order. It takes

three calls before the police will actually come, before a referral.

They have to come on the first occasion, police have to respond.

Not on my third or 4th time. Why do you need five people to report a

crime? That is a dreadful situation. This is diluting the law, and goes

along with a reduced number of police officers. We have to leave

it there, thank you very much indeed.

We all know the government's top priority is economic growth and

creating jobs, and we also know how much it is struggling to achieve

that. Last year the government created local enterprise

partnerships, the idea was to bring together business leaders and local

authorities to energise an area's economy. One year on, are they

working? The every day in the our towns and

cities, local enterprise partnerships influence how we live.

It is all about localism. Civic leaders deciding on where to direct

government funding. The the corridor is going to be taken down,

that building will be demolished. In Manchester, some of that funding

is going towards regenerating the former Eye Hospital into a centre

of research. Mike is the chair of the Greater Manchester l e p, and

was voted one of the most influential people in the north-

west. He believes the right people are now making decisions about

their area. It is very different to Liverpool and Cheshire. We can

focus specifically on the needs for locality and make sure the right

centres and businesses can grow economically. In my view, Greater

Manchester is a great success. We have got better funding, we have

the enterprise zone up and running. The also at the list successful

bids which will secure money for the expansion of Manchester Airport,

and �15 million from the Treasury to help commercialise operations

and the University of Manchester. Over in Liverpool, the Local

Enterprise Partnership has secured money from a fund of �5 million set

aside for local projects. They are using it to develop transport links

around Merseyside. That was the expressway, there. We will open up

a 43 acre site for a new regional warehouse facility. It will employ

thousands. For the future of the region, we must decide where our

strength life. As a global city with international links. It is one

of the May Gethings. The local enterprise partnerships are in

their infancy, this has brought criticisms that it is not enough.

We were looking to provide local services, we lost that with these

development agencies. With the local Business Link services.

Perhaps that is something they should now be looking at. That is

what businesses need. There is a dearth of support given the demise.

We have had a flavour of what is going on in Manchester and

Liverpool, but what about elsewhere? In Lancashire local

enterprise partnerships are channelling money into a direct

rail link from Burnley to Manchester. In Cheshire, they are

encouraging businesses to take a more apprentices. Further north, in

Cumbria, the Local Enterprise Partnership has �4.5 million of

funding to invest in low carbon businesses. So in some areas

progress, but is it enough? I think it will depend. Localism is all

about a very mixed picture of this country. For some they are doing

very well, for others it is more challenging. They don't have much

funding, they don't really have clear powers. It is quite a

struggle for many to really be able to invest. So perhaps the Local

Enterprise Partnership is still a case of "wait and see". But time is

of the essence. Chris Maguire is here, the editor of the north-west

insider magazine. You have looked at this in your

latest addition, what do you make of it? You have to say the jury is

still out. One day if you weren't being kind? A waste of time, a

waste of space. The government have given no money, it is without

direction. The have a hotchpotch of it across the north-west and the

country. Is that what you think? Very much so. In Liverpool you have

got 52 members of staff working on this, but you could argue they are

going to duplicate services already existing. Are they amalgamated, the

staff? So some were amalgamated to create this. You have got Liverpool

together with the separate organisation. They had a couple of

staff, and in Lancashire, in Cumbria as well, with the local

authority and Chamber of Commerce already. Nobody has stuck to the

rules. What you have got is no consistency. Maybe it is a good

thing that in one part of the north-west you want a slightly

different structure to somewhere else? You could argue that by then

the start to sound like a politician! I would say that you

are looking to create conditions for growth. Bringing people

together, big names from the public and private sector, put them in a

room and tell them to come up with an idea. The proof is in the

pudding, though. The report there, lots of this money was already

happening. In the council in Liverpool already. The proof of the

pudding will be on delivery. In Liverpool and Manchester especially.

There is no consistency, in Manchester the chairman sits with

the Lancashire chairman, one is open to the public and one is not.

What do you make compared to in Lancashire? Are I am not happy. It

is too small scale in Lancashire. There is no ambition. It is the

local authority running all the bits. The new system is just a

front, I don't think there is much democratic involvement in what is

happening. I also think they are small-scale compared to what we had

previously. If you ask businesses in Hinde Byrne, they understood the

previous system. They knew the point of contact, they knew how to

get their business involved. Nobody has heard of this new system.

think the jury is still out. They are still finding their feet. We

have seen some doing innovative things, some are lagging behind. In

my own constituency, we want a East Lancashire system, focused on

manufacturing and engineering. we have seen criticism of what we

have got at the moment. Whatever was going to happen under this

government would have less money, we have less money. That is the

problem. If you look at a seat like mine, Lancashire council have been

able to deliver 144 time new positions, that is far more than

the North West agency ever delivered in their area. They are

making some real achievements. -- 140 new positions. The point is,

you are crediting that with this new system, but it was the council

who got the jobs. It was the chief executive who came in, the point is,

they have got a big image problem. Nobody knows what they do, the

rhetoric is fine but it is about results. The jury is out. They are

going to have to create jobs. One year in, they have not. I agree

with you on that. You clearly do as well? A I just think they are a

talking shop at the top. Lancashire County Council do all of the work.

It is just another tear of bureaucracy. People can relate to

it, businesses don't know what it is. Thank you for coming in, Chris.

It is time for a round-up of the week's news now.

Good news for jobs this week in Barrow, the shipyard got a �328

million contract to continue designing the next generation of

submarines for the Royal Navy. The company also announced a �2 billion

deal to supply Hawk trainer jets to Saudi Arabia. It has secured 200

jobs. It is going to expand into the legal sector, bringing 450 new

jobs to the region. The less welcome news, a new �2

million plan to increase court buildings in Britain will include

only 45 in the north-west. Every school in the area which applied

was turned down. The the best that Cheshire has to

offer went on show in the Houses of Parliament, the event was held by

the Chancellor of the Exchequer, George Osborne. Today is an

opportunity to raise the voice of Cheshire, and to make sure that it

is here in the national capital. Just time to think my guests,

Andrew Stephenson, Graham Jones and also Chris Maguire. Thank you for