30/09/2012 Sunday Politics North West

Been the North West, we are live in Manchester city centre as delegates

gather for the Labour Party conference, talking to the leader,

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2113 seconds

Ed Miliband, and former Home A welcome to the Labour Party

annual conference here in Manchester. I am Elaine Dunkley

with the Sunday Politics in the North West. The Liberal Democrats

have told us about the financial mess Labour has left behind and the

tough decisions they have had to make. So is Ed Miliband ready to

take on the big decisions needed in Government? I have been to Burnley

to find out whether he is in tune This is one of the purest the areas

of Burnley. The town is one of the benefit hotspots of Britain. And it

is a big talking point. -- this is one of the poorest areas Mackle

Burnley. It is not fear that we are getting punished and people that

have many are getting away with it. I have seen people struggling just

putting food on the table. Well 1,000 people here are claiming

benefit and most will be affected by a major shake-up of the welfare

system. -- 12,000 people. There seems to be cut after cut coming.

The Eastleigh Borough Council believes benefits should be cut,

but thinks people are being penalised. -- this Labour

councillor believes benefits should be cut, but believes people are

being penalised. They are not many jobs out there. They have not

stepped up to the plate like the Government said it would.

Universal Credit will mean a single payment to replace all benefits.

For most people, it will be capped at a maximum of �500 per week.

Housing benefit will also be deducted for rooms that are not

occupied. I only have basics. I wonder how I will cover for that

spare room. What it means downsizing, which means that my

young boy cannot come and visit and stay with me. Tough times require

tough decisions. Last year in Burnley alone, �200 million was

paid out in benefits. Despite this, Labour leader Ed Miliband does not

believe the coalition Cup has been well thought out. The Liberal

Democrats MP for the town however thinks the cap is too high and will

be used to subsidise rents elsewhere. I suggested 12,000 would

be adequate. The average salary in Burnley is �18,000 per year. My

constituents should not pay for people living in housing they

cannot afford in London. Do you think people should only be allowed

a certain amount of benefits? we will then not have problems with

the next generation. People will have to work if there are no

benefits. People will suffer if they do captured. -- if it is cap.

This week, Ed Miliband will set out the agenda on welfare reform. The

challenge is to persuade voters of the benefits of Labour.

Earlier this week, we caught up with Ed Miliband.

Mr Miliband, there is the proposed benefit cap of �26,000. Who in the

North West needs more than �26,000 in benefits? I think the principle

of a benefits cap on a regional basis is right. But we have always

said housing benefit levels on a regional basis. We should do that

similarly won a regional basis when it comes to an overall benefits cut.

That tends to make sense. But one thing we have to do is crack down

on private landlords. This 26,000 takes account of money paid to

private landlords. I want a benefit cap, but one that works. What sort

of figure? Eric Pickles himself, the Local Government Secretary,

wrote a letter before the benefits Cup legislation was introduced,

saying it would not work, driving people into temporary bed-and-

breakfast accommodation, not at -- not achieving the benefits. I would

be very surprised that people were receiving �26,000 and benefits. Do

you wanted to be tighter than that? It is taking account of money paid

directly to landlords. We have to tackle road -- we have to tackle

rogue landlords. We need a cap that works across the country. I do not

want you to plug a figure. Make a judgment. The principle of a

benefits Cup is right, but we must do it right, that does not cost

extra money. We do not want to drive people into temporary

accommodation, which I fear the proposal will. People want this to

be fair. Talking about benefits is a problem in the North West, with

unemployment currently a 9%, about 300,000 people. At which you do you

think unemployment began to rise in the region? I will not play at quiz

game, we just need to sort out the unemployment problem. There was a

recession... Let me tell you, it was 2005, the year the Labour

Government came in. It can continue to increase up to 2010. This is not

a recent problem. There are pick, chronic problems of unemployment.

But there is also the fact that we have seen unemployment at its

highest level for 17 years since the last time there was a Tory

Government. That is happening because the economy is shrinking,

not growing, and I believe we can make a difference. The conference

is about rebuilding Britain's economy. You did not make the

difference during your time in Government. We did, but there was a

recession. The theme of the conferences rebuilding Britain's

economy. One day 1, if I was Prime Minister, I would level a backbone

as tax, using the money to put young people back into work. -- I

would level a bank bonus tax. investing in rail, new bridges over

the mayor's seat, investing in new airport link road. -- new bridges

over the River Mersey. If you think places like Manchester and

Liverpool were doing worse under the last Labour Government that

this Conservative Government, I think most people would disagree

with you. It is right we invest in infrastructure, that is really

important. But if the economy is not growing, if there is no demand,

businesses are not getting orders, the infrastructure is not going to

solve the problem. Yes to more infrastructure, but yes also to an

economy that is growing. That is the big difference between us and

the current Government. Thank you very much and hope you enjoy the

conference. I'm well, thank you. -- I'm well, thank you. SOUND

By I'm joined now by Jack Straw and Jon Tonge. Mr Straw, you have

contributed to previous Labour General Election victories. How

important is conference to Labour? The conference at this stage, have

we threw the electoral cycle, is very important at setting the tone

for that long pre-election run-in to the General Election likely in

2015. It is really important. The challenge for any opposition leader.

We picked up some of this in that interview with Ed Miliband. The

challenge is not to get to committed to policy, because the

Tories more rapid round our neck. But also do not travel empty. There

is a fine balance illustrating there is a vision there, giving

some detail, but also recognising there is no way we can make

detailed decisions 2.5 years before a General Election. His Labour

running on empty at the moment? I thought we might be too much in

opposition, and although there are people around the party saying we

should just a pose and put things back, which is impossible, Ed

Miliband and his colleagues are taking some responsible positions,

especially on this critical issue of public spending and public

sector pay. Jon, what other challenges facing Labour? One is

from straying Ed Miliband as a Prime Minister in waiting. -- One

is portraying Ed Miliband. You could your jaws dropping when Ed

Miliband was elected leader. People thought this was someone being

promoted beyond his means. That debate has now been put to bed. It

is now about whether Ed Miliband is a Prime Minister in waiting. Few

people beyond the conference will believe he is. The second is policy,

it is not enough to wait for the opposition to implode. Without

producing a draft election manifesto, we need clear policy

ideas in an era of austerity, with no money to spend. What areas does

leader need ideas on? We need clarity on the policy of Universal

Credit. Labour has been to some extent all over the place. Clarity

on Education's, Free Schools, the NHS, although Andy Burnham has

offered some clear pledges. We need clarity on the economy. Ed Balls

has topped a tough game this weekend about you ruthless on

spending, but at a rate cut that the coalition Government has tried

to introduce, effectively, Labour opposition has tried to oppose. The

need to be clear about what is up for axing, what is up for

preserving. Das Ed Miliband and ask for advice? Plenty. -- does Ed

Miliband ask for advice? What does he say? It is not quite correct

that we have opposed everything the Tories have done, although I

understand Jon's criticism, but being in opposition you are pushed

by the trade unions, pressure groups, but if for example you take

the big cuts in legal aid, most of them, not all, were once that I had

won the stocks. It would be impossible to restore these,

because I started some of them. That is true in a lot of areas. The

difficulty we have an opposition is the fact that many of the cuts the

Tories are making a taking place in a very unfair way. That is why we

get into this. So not that -- so that is giving the impression you

oppose everything? It does. We have to be tougher with our allies and

say we are sorry, the easy way is to walk through the lobbies and

vote against this, but the truth is we will not be to back when in

Government. It would have been tight if we had been in Government.

That is just the reality. There is a big, difficult issue with people

in the public sector. I understand a fact that people in the public

sector have not had a pay rise. But there is an equation there between

extra jobs for people or more money for people with jobs. The party has

to come down on the part of more jobs. We shall leave it there. Won

-- one man who should know how it Labour MPs are appealing about Ed

Miliband is with Elaine Dunkley. -- a feeling about.

The Banksy are, I am joined by Dave Watts, the MP.

-- thank you. He represents the party's back benches. Thank you for

joining us. 25% of the Labour Party is made up of people from the North

West. Do the big move leader understands this region? I think

people feel this leader does. He could be different in the fact that

he understands the issue of the North-South divide, dealing with

high levels of unemployment and poverty we have, so I think this

leader does listen and I think he will develop policies that will

help the North West. Is there still a position that he is an Oxbridge

sudden intellectual? Not really. I don't think most people a kitten

that week. -- Sudden intellectual. He spends far more time with the

back benches, going out of its way to make sure that he knows what

people are saying. In my meetings with them, it is clear he is not

elitist, he is in touch with what real people think. That is what he

is trying to do, trying to change policy so that we will be a party

that represents the aspirations of everyone, including the North West.

Are we still heaving rumblings of discussion between Ed Miliband and

David Miliband, or a MPs bully behind the leader? -- or carpet MPs

fully behind the leader? You never really hear that. What

are you going to do to ensure that, in places like Burnley, Lancashire,

St Helens, you will gain seats? In 2010, we were comparatively did

very poorly. Yes, and we need to do well, we need policies to attract

the electorate. I believe Ed Miliband will do that. He is

talking about taking on vested interests. It is time to do that.

Not just the media, banks, it is the energy companies, different

agencies we need to represent people on. Thank you for joining us.

Enjoy the conference. Thank you very much. Jon, what you

are saying as the party should be doing better? It has to do better.

If Labour believes the 10% lead in the polls is sufficient, no

opposition has won a General Election without being at least 20%

ahead around the mid-term. That shows this year scale of their task.

Ed Miliband polls way behind David Cameron on issues such as

decisiveness. There is the leader factor and the general Labour

backed up. It is not impossible to be the largest party, but there

could be a hung parliament. They were lost and many voters. How many

have actually come back? There is not many declaring so far. There is

a big task for Labour. Mr Straw, you have served with winners and

losers. What can Ed Miliband do to better connect with the country and

the way Jon is describing? He has to do more about what Tory cutters

was talking about, coming across to ordinary people. -- do more about

Dave Watts was talking about. But if we talked about things like the

distributions, the audience would dissolve rapidly. You need to

ensure to deal with the causes of inequality, rather than just the

effects. Jon is right. I would not put it quite how he does. 10% at

this stage is not a guarantee by any means of victory. One of the

most important things Ed Miliband has to do is ensure no one retreats

into some sort of comfort zone and thinks that they can come out with

extravagant claims which the public will not notice. We are doing much

better than parts of the country, including the North West. We still

have quite a long way to go in seats in the south and South West.

And part of outer London, which we need to form a majority. Jon, is

there no tension between appealing to the North West, where they are

now controlling 21 councils out of about 36, and appealing to other

parts of the country? The thing with New Labour was building

coalitions between Labour heartland voters and swing voters in the

Midlands and the South, who were perhaps less naturally Labour, and

that is about Labour winning the next General Election, getting both

those pools of voters. They still have the Labour heartlands, but the

need to go beyond that. The question is achieving that. Ed

Miliband is not quite a creature of the North, so could appeal to

voters in the south, but people have not made the jump back to

Labour in the way that is needed. do not think there is a

disconnection between voters we need to appeal in the North West,

affluent voters whose lifestyle aspirations is no different from

the south or South West. But Jon is right that new Labour did a huge

amount, also winning three elections, was able to get this

coalition together. That is the big challenge on us. And Ed Miliband

went back as party leader? He has already shown within the party,

where there was a high degree of scepticism when he was elected, not

least in the Parliamentary party, that has changed. People's

perceptions can change, because he is now delivering and performing.

That will change again. I am confident that we can win. But it

is miles away from being in the back. I am asking you briefly how

you move to a position rapidly would it can be. One of the things

I bring out in my book is that you have to reach out to. Leaders when

it BAA takes on vested interest, including in the party itself. --

leaders win if taking on vested interests. There can be extravagant

union leaders, but will not win in the country if not challenging that.

It is time for 60 seconds with Euan Doak.

Social workers, police and prosecutors all failed to protect

dozens of children in Rochdale from sexual exploitation, a report said

this week, following the conviction of nine men board grooming. Kelvin

MacKenzie wants an apology from South Yorkshire Police, blaming the

force of his infamous headline after the Hillsborough disaster.

Liverpool MP Maria Eagle said he should have used his critical

faculties. A Lib Dem reveals more about working under Eric Pickles.

Eric got on like a house on fire. There is plenty of flames and smoke.

Manchester City Council says it did not hit the wrong note spending

�425,000 to stage a concert. The council says it will boost the

city's global profile. And life in the slow lane, the Government has

approved at 10 knots speed limit on Windermere. There will be

exceptions for special events, like the plan to land a replica of

Britain's first seedling. -- seat plane. Jack Straw has

brought out his autobiography this week. You have been an MP -- a

black bun MP for 30 years, how much did that into wins your time as a

Minister? It influenced it hugely. One of the great strengths of the

system is you can be as high as you like, but you or your job as a

Member of Parliament. -- but you owe your job. What Ireland and

Blackburn made a fantastic difference to my life than politics.

-- what I learnt in Blackburn. It was because of that that I stayed

in touch with people. Labour's big law and order agenda, to make

Europe the areas say there was drawn from that kind of experience.

-- to make areas that a purer safer was drawn from that kind of

experience. There was some discussion about the issue of

immigration, where you were said to be sensible and not a softie.

soft on immigration? No. When I introduced the 1999 Immigration and

Asylum Bill, I was condemned as some kind of right wing semi

fascist, not by my constituents, but one of the things forgotten by

those that do not represent black or Asian communities, immigrants

and the last two or three generations, is that none of them

want people coming here illegally or unlawfully. Those people get

more angry about this, because it undermines the confidence of the

white population in them. Hasn't been an interesting experience,

bringing up memories you have forgotten? -- has it been. It has

been. One of the most important lessons are learned again was of

the importance of the Labour Party really being tough on its policy

examination and not turning in on itself. We had 25 years of internal