10/02/2013 Sunday Politics North West

Eric Pickles warns local authorities over council tax. A

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2461 seconds

Eric Pickles warned local authorities not to take him up for

a mug over council tax. It will backfire in the most spectacular

way. My guests are Peter Thornton the Liberal Democrat leader of

South Lakeland council and the mayor of Salford Ian Stuart. What

do you make of the position of Eric Pickles? Eric Pickles is a very

experienced politician at national level and local level. He has a

history in local government. But his bluster with councils who are

trying to do the best for the local residents does not wash. The threat

he has made are in appropriate. have a genuine? I am not sure how

he could possibly do what he is threatening. You have been council

leader for nine months. Are you finding that a difficult job given

the financial situation? If it is tricky. I have not met Eric Pickles

yet. I am looking forward to meeting them. There will be a few

quiet words in secret. The tone it needs to change. The stone from

government but councils are doing everything wrong needs to stop. We

are all on the same site. Serving the people of allah areas. --

serving the people of local areas. It has been revealed that a number

of NHS Trust are being investigated for her height decorates.

Some are used to go this woman lost her husband's in hospital just

weeks after getting married. His hospital her -- his operation had

been delayed. The place was dirty. The trusts mentioned in the report

have had high rates for two years. Our quality of care is very high.

There is no risk of coming into this hospital. The rates are

calculated by looking at the number of people that would be expected to

died taking into account their age and profile of people locally.

air have been various reports on the health of the people in

Blackpool. The problems still remain it - too much smoking and

drinking and lack of exercise. saw this in the hospital in Salford

we they are so proud of the fact that they asked the staff, the

patients, everybody, would you have your friend and family treated in

hospital. It is on every single ward. But Salford Royal Hospital

hourly checks are carried out to see if the patient is in pain. This

makes the hospital one of the safest in the country. It is an

effort, but it saves problems. If you can prevent someone being upset

it saves time in the long run. cannot Blackpool and others follow

suit? The air is some evidence that the doctor and nurse to bed ratio

affect the level of mortality. If you look at the ratios in Salford

we are much higher than they are in an hour trust. And other three

trusts wait to see what form the investigation will take.

We are joined by a health specialists from Manchester

Business School. How serious is this? I do not think we know yet.

The figures suggest the requirement for some investigation. These are

unusually complex problems. Therefore it is important not to

jump to conclusions too early about the reason for a high mortality

rate. There may be a number of reasons. The problems at Stafford

hospital started with high mortality rates. They were

investigated. It was decided it was normal statistical variation. That

is wrong. But is worth investigating. Absolutely. We heard

the doctor at Blackpool suggesting that one of the factors here is

staff, a lack of staff. Do you accept that? If I was in the place

of the person investigating those hospitals I would want to ask a

number of hospitals. There are a number of reasons for high

mortality rates. One of them might be to do with staffing. A second

one might Beek the sickness absence rates. That these usually. -- might

be the sickness absence. I would look at the quality of leadership

at the hospital trust. We know from research evidence that troubled

hospitals are those which have a high turnover of chief executives.

The good news from your point of view is that Salford comes out of

this looking very good. C offered does not look very good. Salford

hospital trust is very good. It starts with a Labour government

investing �200 million to build a brand new hospital. A brand new

facility means that the hospital can look at that procedures, how it

does its work, and improve them. Everything encourages improvement.

Sorry to interrupt, but isn't the Labour government park of the

problem as well? It was imposing targets on NHS hospitals. You can

argue those theoretical things, but the actuality in Salford is that

Salford hospital trust is in the top five for keeping mortality low.

There is nothing theoretical about this. What is real is that the

satisfaction rates of patients and staff are very high at Salford

hospital trust. It all goes to show that when you give professional

workers from the cleaners to the top consultants a good facility

they can review their procedures, they can make it happen for

patients. That is the key thing. It is patient orientated. In Salford

it is very successful. We have had a issue recently been at Furnace

hospital with regard to a lack of staff are due to illness. Under the

possibility of losing cuts of moving maternity services. That has

gone away but are there other issues? If you look at that

hospital, and they should have been there -- if you have not been there

you would not know what it is like. It is essential that local

politicians, local doctors, feed into this. What about the issue

that I was trying to ask about? Targets. There is a real problem

with an over focus on target. The Francis Report leader that there.

What it has encouraged is a particular style of leadership,

which is a very pace-setting, driven style of leadership. What we

have lacked in our hospitals, whether the our new hospitals, or

all the hospitals in older buildings, is a variety of styles

of leadership. Particularly a style which encourages and supports and

praises and his kind to staff as well as challenging stuff. If all

you do is challenge staff around target how can you expect those

staff to be kind to patients? are two words to scare any local

authority. Eric Pickles. The Communities Secretary wants some of

our local councils to back down over proposed council tax increases.

Any council planning an increase of two % or more must hold a

referendum. Eric Pickles is annoyed that some councils are putting it

up by 1.99 %. He calls them democracy dodgers. Some are putting

up bills by more than two % without a boat. How? Look at the largest

increase. Manchester City Council. The extra money being raised his

four weeks, police, and transport. The but for the city council is

actually going down. But overall bills increase by 3.7 %. In a

moment Eric Pickles, but first someone quite different.

It is a battle with Eric Pickles which has turned Adli. He has

accused Labour councils of reliving the past like a bad 1980s tribute

band. Please sir I want some more. Now in a Dickensian a twist he has

criticised Manchester City Council for asking for more council tax.

This is not a loophole. We in Manchester are faced by significant

increases in the waste disposal led the, the transport levy, but we do

not control. The actual increase in our own share of the council tax is

minus 2.4 %. The amount available for council services directly is

going down. A major part of the increase in

council taxes to raise money for this plant which recycles always

collected from nine districts across Greater Manchester. This

year the need to raise an extra �20 million for investment.

Why are you causing council tax bills to warm up by so much?

knew that in the first ideas be would see significant hikes in the

cost. We knew we were going to charge greater Manchester council.

What we are cream here in Greater Manchester Council is building

sustainable waste facilities. �640 million worth, which will last for

the next 20 years at least. Try it would council is also facing

increased costs from the Greater Manchester waste disposal authority.

Rather than passing it on to house sold it has managed to freeze

council tax. You will get Labour authorities who will start banging

the drum and really criticise this in many respects. We think that

just as we as a council are finding it financially difficult, household

and hard-working councils are finding it difficult. We have been

clear on the bottom line to drive out as much cost, make things as

efficient as possible, rather than passing it on to residents to pay.

Elsewhere in the north-west Oldham council and Roger council are

proposing a 3.5 % increase in the I love my brother next door. He is

a neighbour of mine. I would not do it. He should not do it. It is

wrong. We will go be on Daphne's. We will go to 2015 without a

council tax increase at all. That is fine for Cheshire East. That is

his choice. I will not criticise him for the decisions he needs to

make. Likewise for ourselves we have to be what is right for our

residents. East Cheshire and West Cheshire are both facing a new bill

for the new Police and Crime Commissioner. If I wanted to raise

at more than 1.99 % and it have to go for a referendum which means

going to ask the people of Cheshire what else can I put it up by. That

would have cost �1.4 million. A further �1 million to do rebuilding

exercise afterwards. We're looking at �2.5 million which in my view is

a waste of money. Last some are using a clever police were to avoid

a referendum, some local councils say they are feeling the heat and

cannot afford a threesome council tax.

I asked Eric Pickles what he makes of bells. -- feeling the heat and

cannot afford to threes council tax. They do not have the degree of

transparency. I shall be taking powers to bring those into the

referendum for next year. I will take into consideration the about

that they have raised this year. What's will that mean? If they put

it up this year I will insure that the two years are taken into

consideration and they will not be able to put up to the same level

that other authorities will next year. In other words the message

for those councils in Greater Manchester were going down this

route is they had better stop because it will backfire? It will

backfire in a spectacular way. has the waste authority done wrong?

The it has delivered a contract which does not take into

consideration market rates or waste. A lot of these deals. They would

argue this was signed by the Treasury. This was not done by us.

That is an appalling move away from responsibility. In Cheshire the

Cheshire Police Commissioner is pretty his council tax up by 1.89 %

stock -- 1.99 %. I would prefer him to deliver council tax freeze.

have you told him? Of course. a democracy Dodger? I am less than

happy. What is happening to council tax in South Lakeland. We do not

have the secret state that Eric Pickles is talking about. We are

going to propose back threes. It gives as financial difficulties but

we think it is the right thing to do. It is the policy of the

Coalition to leave spending with the people. Every pound we do not

take of people as a pound they can spend on local businesses. It is

the right way to go. What do you make of the fact that the police

commissioner is putting his bit of the council tax up by a 1.85 %? The

police commissioner might have to sit down with Eric Pickles one day

and account for that. That is up to the Police Commissioner to decide.

Were I to disagree with Eric Pickles is this issue of localism.

He has tried to push us around the same route. It should be decided

locally. If other people decide to put it up that is up to them. We

are all accountable to the electorate. We answer at the ballot

box. Is the police commissioner bodging democracy? A I am not going

to say that. People have to stand for re a Wrexham -- for an election.

If he is putting it appears it of the council tax then you are

getting less. The problem we have got is a communication issue.

People think it is as that is bidding it up. For three years

South Lakeland District Council has kept council tax increases of 20.

That is the message we need to get across. -- increases to zero.

been the leader of another authority I would probably be doing

the same thing as the leaders in the other authorities. They have

their own pressures. They have to make political judgements to

protect their own electorate. In Salford we have decided that enough

is enough. We have come at cuts on top of the precepts for police,

fire, waste. We have lost �100 million from Salford but the

government has taken away in the last three years. 24 million this

year. Another 27,000,004 years to come. Another 80 million in the

next two or three years. The Government has taken that money

away from Salford. On top of all fat -- on top of that, with the

atrocious concept of a Belgian tax, -- AB bedroom tax. You are saying

you know the list but you do not know what that means to the people

of Salford. All that cumulatively is an absolute outrage. We are in a

place we have never been in before. In the pit be control, the council

tax element for Salford, we have given a little chink of hope to the

people of Salford and what is a Coalition government blackspot.

it not frustrating to see some of your colleagues putting up their

bit of the council tax by 19 %, almost one-fifth? You are not going

to be able to compromise me on services to the City of Salford. We

put great store on our partnership work in the area of crime. We want

to be able to have a situation where the people of Salford and

their families are safe. That costs money. That is not that we control.

But we control is about the Salford council tax. We have put it at his

zeal for the 4th year running. -- put it at zero. I am proud we have

been able to do that. But it does not solve the problem for the

people Salford. It's a certainly does not. We leave the discussion

there. It is time for the rest of the news

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