13/10/2013 Sunday Politics North West

Morning, welcome to the veritable Sunday Politics. We have Alastair

Charmichael. We'll ask him what Sunday Politics. We have Alastair

Moore hadn't. Ken Clarke just keeps has that his predecessor Michael

Moore hadn't. Ken Clarke just keeps going on and on and on. He'll bang

Free of the shackles of Government, former Energy Secretary Chris Huhne

says we've misunderstood the problem of human trafficking and that men

pundits who we try to shuffle out of a job but failed miserably, Mick

watt, Miranda Green Andijan an Ganesh. They'll Tweet like mad as if

Is Ed Miliband's Labour Party moving chid owe Cabinet reshuffle was seen

a a shift to the lot of. Two have announced policy changes which could

Pensions Secretary Rachel Reeves says Labour will be tougher on the

Tories. While Tristram Hunt says Labour loves Tory-style free schools

after all. Here he is on the BBC viewers. If you are a group of

parents, social entrepreneurs, teachers, interested in setting

parents, social entrepreneurs, school in areas where you need new

school place, the Labour Government will be on your side. That's free

enterprise and innovation. It will will be on your side. That's free

be in areas of need. We have a school places crisis going on. It

teachers in these schools. And accountability. What is going on

with the Al Madina school is because of terrible mistakes with Michael

changed, the change of tone is I'm not sure if the policies have

changed, the change of tone is remarkable, both on welfare and

changed, the change of tone is schools. A significant change of

reshuffle on the Labour frontbench last week was init wered as a purge

of Blair rights. It seemed to be a purge of anti-reform thinking.

Rachel Reeves was not saying anythi different on substance but saying

Labour will be tough than the Tories on welfare. You've seen that clip

from Tristram, free schools will be allowed to be set up in areas of

need. Greater oversight. But a completely different change of tone,

we are on the side of parents and social entrepreneurs who want to set

these up. A different change. Why are they doing this? On education,

polarised. You've had the Michael department. This weekend, we've

polarised. You've had the Michael leaked memos from one of Michael

Gove's advisers which are extreme views about the state of education.

And on the other side teaching unions. It hasn't led to a healthy

debate which represents what parents want out of schools or employers.

This is a huge move from the Labour Party to sound more reasonable.

This is a huge move from the Labour have been silent on education which

is a huge policy area on the left. Is this a focus group-driven change?

They've seen the polls. Welfare reforms are hugery popular and free

only apiece the focus groups by changing the policy substantially. I

always thought a test for this Labour reshuffle was not whether Ed

Miliband would promote Blair rights, it is clear he did, it is whether

they would be allowed to be Blair rights. When Stephen Twigg carried

the education portfolio it was clear his own views were closer to the

Government than he was allowed to let on. He was constrained. There is

no point of giving Tristram Hunt this job if he is not allowed to say

what he thinks. I wouldn't mind betting privately he thinks free

schools should be available beyond just areas of need. He hasn't yet

defined need. It could be, we've run schools are so bad we need schools.

If that is it, it is the same Asics itsing Government policy. In they

unsatisfactory that's no different. He wanted to say he was in favour of

higher educational standards and rigour, he had to tell the audience

he has a Cambridge PhD to attack Michael Gove. That was difficult for

Tristram Hunt he had to mention that. Is that worth something, a PhD

from Cambridge? Obviously to him it is. He said they would demand proper

teaching qualifications. That could teaching? Independent schools do not

have to have teachers with formal teaching qualifications. I've never

been to one? What about you? That decision by Michael Gove to allow

free schools to employ nonunionised and non-trained people, so he has to

Watch this space. The dust settled after the party resufficients. Do

the Tories look a bit more like Britain. Do the Tories look more

#4 With reshuffles, you're never really certain. There's whispers,

rumours, guesses. But the only way to know it is underway is keeping

beady eyes on a front door. Up until now, the only way we knew who was in

and who was out was who came walking down this bit of Downing Street

and who was out was who came walking a smile on their face after going to

see the boss. The once who are to be sacked, they usually go round the

back. Not this time. No, something new alerted us all. The-PM started

can't remember a triple decker reshuffle where you've three parties

changing ministerial teams at the resufficient happened on Twitter.

Not that the press stopped watching the door as well. News was a bit

Charmichael replaced Michael Moore, the first to be pounced on. I'm

disappointed to be leaving office now but pleased at what I've been

able to achieve in the last couple of years. Not as pleased as one

imagines as the man receiving the welcome that went on, and on and

simultaneously having Jeremy Browne, in a sense seen off the premises of

the Home Office in conspiracy to let # Blowing hi Jude through a traffic

Democrats. We tend to think they are herbivorous. Sacking a Cabinet

Minister, another minister, Jeremy Browne. By lunch time, the Tory

ranks were shifting too. The PM Browne. By lunch time, the Tory

to boost the numbers of telegenic women walking into Government and

turning perceptions around. He tipped a so-called flatcap to men

backgrounds with room for some which fitted neither label but are friends

of George Osborne. And, all the while, those new Tory ministers

of George Osborne. And, all the learning of Labour's changes. Labour

too knows the value of new young blood striding into the limelight.

Again some with TV experience of that. Tristram Hunt and Gloria de

peer row would be hard to describe as hard left. But Blairbrushing

peer row would be hard to describe past out of the picture seemed to be

the name of the day. Liam Byrne With Diane Abbott also gone, was

this really a Blair right cull? It depends what you mean. Blair right

used to mean someone who wanted depends what you mean. Blair right

Blair to be leader of the Labour Party. Somebody who worked closely

with him. Now it means sometimes people who believe in a certain

with him. Now it means sometimes of ideologyies or ideas. There are

still very much those kind of Blair rights within the party. But we

still very much those kind of Blair seeing the group around Tony Blair

are not long assassin flew enjoys as over. New bees were sharing the

ministers quietly thanked commits raters. Or -- commiserators. Or

ministers quietly thanked commits disified. How much much someone

standing here might want it to be the case, you are unlikely to get

someone coming out of that do going "how could." And running off crying!

And the brand, spanking new Scottish Secretary Alastair Charmichael joins

us from Orkney on a line that hasn't been used since the fleet was used

in the outbreak of World War I! I wasn't around at the time. I'm

hearing you loud and clear. Why wasn't around at the time. I'm

you agreed to run a department? wasn't around at the time. I'm

you wanted to abolish six years wasn't around at the time. I'm

Hello? Maybe our connections are not Charmichael. Can you hear me? I

Hello? Maybe our connections are not hear you now. There was a nasty

second there where you disappeared. Let me try the question again. Why

have you agreed to run a department you wanted to abolish six years

have you agreed to run a department Because this is the, probably one of

the most important jobs in British politics at the moment. To ensure

that Scotland remains part of the UK. Even when I was talking about

the reconfiguration of rep sen Taigs of Scotland -- representation of

Scotland within Whitehall, there was always a job to be done. That is

true in spades now. I will focus on making sure the UK Government has a

real voice in that debate. What making sure the UK Government has a

you that Michael Moore didn't have? Look, I think Michael Moore did

you that Michael Moore didn't have? excellent job. The work he did

delivering the Edinburgh agreement clear legal and decisive referendum,

the work delivering extra powers to substantial piece of work. I'm not

friend of mine. I will say that substantial piece of work. I'm not

we go forward into this, this is now about the actual debate itself.

we go forward into this, this is now will be putting the case, with some

passion, I hope, for Scotland to just some abstract debate about

nationhood, sovereignty, this is a their livelihoods, the cost of their

mortgage. That and an awful lot challenge. I understand that. But if

you're being put in there to save the union, every pole has the no --

poll has the no campaign margin alley ahead. Mr Moore was doing

pretty well to save the union. I suspect you've been given the job to

Scotland? And lieu, you misread suspect you've been given the job to

situation if you -- Andrew, you misread the situation new think

anybody is going to be the person who will save the union. The people

who will save the union are the people of Scotland if they turn

who will save the union are the next year and vote to save the

union. We have to put the case for that. That is what I will be doing.

Look at the position of your own party. You came fourth in the last

Scottish parentry elections. You were even behind the Conservatives.

The latest poll has you still in fourth. Are you there because you're

a bruiser and you will pep up the Liberal Democrats opportunity in

Scotland. If I had a pound for everybody to referred to me as being

Scotland. If I had a pound for a bruiser, I wouldn't need to be

sitting here this morning. I could have retired by now. The truth of

this, if I can address it once and for all, I have done probably one of

the most complex and subtle jobs in three-and-a-half years, Liberal

Democrat Chief Whip in a Coalition survived in that job a week, let

alone three-and-a-half years, if I was the sort of person who went

around picking unnecessary fights. So, can we just please forget about

this business about being a bruiser. As far as the position of the party

in the polls, this is true also As far as the position of the party

the referendum vote, opinion polls are a snapshot. They are not a

prediction of what will happen in the future. I will be out there

putting the case. Neither the next election nor the referendum is one

or lost yet. One of the things I really want to be guarding against

because we are a good margin ahead today, 12 months out from the actual

polling day, that it is in the bag. Believe me, Andrew, it is not. As

you know, wasn't for the Liberal Democrats. Not just talking about

the polls. You came fourth in the You said you were happy to facial

ex-Salmond in a TV debade. Should David Cameron face him? I am happy

debate. Should David Cameron face him? No, because that allows Alex

Nationalists to portray this as him? No, because that allows Alex

sort of contest or choice between a vision of Scottish social democracy

is not. This is a debate that has to is not. This is a debate that has to

be held in Scotland about the future of Scotland amongst Scots. David

Cameron has a very important part in Scotland's public life, but he is

not Scottish and I think he will accept Commies edit himself in fact,

the person who should be debating Darling. He has got a Scottish name

wealthiest of Scotland at some stage in the past. Anyway, you described

the campaign to keep the union together as lacking passion, were

you referring to the campaign or referring to Alistair Darling. I

think what I was saying is that referring to Alistair Darling. I

we move into this new stage, and Alistair Darling said it himself, we

are now campaigning for people Alistair Darling said it himself, we

hearts because if you look at the range of papers the Government has

published, it is pretty clear the arguments lie in relation to the

head. I am not giving up the battle for the hearts and Scotland because

there is a good strong case, as somebody who is proud to be Scottish

and to be British, for Scotland somebody who is proud to be Scottish

remain part of the UK. You come somebody who is proud to be Scottish

distilleries and I understand you celebratory drink for your new post.

Not a drop has touched my lips. celebratory drink for your new post.

supporting local business! I will be making up for lost time on the

supporting local business! I will be of November, I will be doing it

supporting local business! I will be aid of Macmillan Cancer care and if

website, they can donate. It is worthwhile. I cannot think of a

better cause. One Cabinet minister who many thought might get Reef

better cause. One Cabinet minister Clarke. Welcome to Sunday Politics.

minorities, where did you fit in? I minorities, where did you fit in? I

would describe myself as the elder statesman, to be polite, but it

would describe myself as the elder difficult to replace them. I enjoy

it. It is a great privilege to have a role in Cabinet and I will carry

on as long as David wants me to a role in Cabinet and I will carry

I have seen many reshuffles, they are dreadful and I seem to have

survived them so far. Did David Cameron talk to you before this

reshuffle? No, he didn't. I would have had expected a phone call,

asking, how do you think about stepping down, but he didn't and my

role is one of giving my wit and wisdom to the Cabinet and meetings

of the Security Council so he has got to put up with me a bit longer.

You said you are going to stand again at the next election, why

You said you are going to stand you keep going? What do you hope to

achieve in politics? I am mostly a political anorak, I have been since

I was very small, by the process of politics but the older I get I get

governance of the country and at the moment the combination of problems

is quite appalling. The difficulty of tackling the modern world is

is quite appalling. The difficulty difficult and I find it fascinating.

The old argument that attracts every decent person into politics, you

might be able sometimes to make decent person into politics, you

bit of difference, and I try to decent person into politics, you

that. I try not to hark back on decent person into politics, you

experience but we will have a lot of tough problems which I think the

Conservative Government will have to tackle. You opposed referenda on

Maastricht, the Lisbon Treaty, you were even against one on Britain

adopting the euro. It must follow that you are against the referenda

on Britain's membership to the EU? I accountable to the long-term and

representatives, but this is a minority now and my colleagues have

firmly decided a referendum needs to be held to settle the question of

Britain's relationship with the European Union which I think is

Britain's relationship with the of the most important things in

Britain's place in the modern world politicians are able to look after

the living standards, the economy, the safety against terrorism. Last

the living standards, the economy, summer you said that only extreme

nationalists wanted a silly EU referendum. It follows your party

must be full of extremely silly nationalists. The people who are

desperate to have a referendum are all the people who actually want to

referendum will involve the public and people like me have got to get

across to the public, don't just feel angry about the last thing

across to the public, don't just read in the newspaper about what the

commission is or is not doing, do commission is or is not doing, do

bear in mind this is our base in the modern world. We happen to be a

leading member, almost as valuable and rich as the Americans, from

influence in events. That is not just how the politicians get on

influence in events. That is not politicians look after us when we

spilling over from the Middle East, or we face public services being

threatened. You didn't even turn up to vote for the bill which will

threatened. You didn't even turn up engagements on the Friday concerned.

It seemed to get through without my participation. You didn't want to be

seen voting for something your heart Look, many of your colleagues I

seen voting for something your heart interviewed say that if the choice

was between the state -- the status quo with the European Union and

leaving, they would leave. The truth is that you would vote to stay in

even on the status quo, wouldn't supporting the EU to leave now if I

got chance. I think our economy supporting the EU to leave now if I

investment, as in Washington last been if we were outside the EU.

investment, as in Washington last week. We are trying to roll forward

the prospect of free trade and I have to reassure Americans that

the prospect of free trade and I are not likely to leave the EU to

That is true but it also needs reform. The cry for reform, which is

particularly Germany, is a good reform. The cry for reform, which is

Even if David Cameron came back reform. The cry for reform, which is

nothing from Brussels, you would still vote to stay in, correct?

one which is dwindling in comparison with others, in the modern world it

would be dangerous. I also think the dangers of the Middle East and the

dangers of some of the countries disengage. I will take that as a

strengthen the case, and of some members of the public don't agree

persuaded when David delivers his reforms. The latest poll gives

Labour a ten point lead over the Tories and the reason why it has a

ten point lead is because UKIP are up there with 18% of the vote and

ten point lead is because UKIP are the Tory vote has slumped in the

Paul to 27%. How would you see off UKIP? By saying you need a strong

Paul to 27%. How would you see off and effective Government. We faced

terrible problems. Every Government I have been in has been behind in

the polls. This Government is not as popular as the previous Government I

have served in under the three previous prime ministers. When you

get an election, people have to previous prime ministers. When you

themselves who do we want to decide the issues of war and peace in this

country? Who do we want to get us out of our economic problems. I

don't think Ed Miliband is up to it. That generalised stuff will not

don't think Ed Miliband is up to it. off UKIP. People will not listen to

that. When people answer an opinion poll, they tell you how annoyed

that. When people answer an opinion are by something that has recently

upset them, but people are more sensible than this. Every Government

I have served in has been behind in the polls. At a general election you

have to mobilise the public to start thinking, who do we want to govern

us? They did take over a calamitous important problems to be decided

going forward. UKIP represents anti-immigration, anti-foreigners,

anti-Europe, anti-politics but I don't think it will get 18% of the

Thank you. Once upon a time, a politician whose career ended in

disgrace might choose to lie low for a while, perhaps to spend a bit

disgrace might choose to lie low for time tending the tulips and doing

the odd bit of charity work. Not Chris Huhne. He walked free from

prison only five months ago but Chris Huhne. He walked free from

former Energy Secretary is already back in the public eye - a column in

the Guardian, a job with a renewable interview. So is he working on a

political rehabilitation? Chris Politics. The answer to that is

clearly know, and thank you for inviting me back. You have set your

career in politics is over so what does the future hold for you? I

career in politics is over so what happy doing what I am doing, I am

passionate about green energy and climate change, so I am doing things

on that front in terms of business non-governmental organisations,

on that front in terms of business I am doing a column for the Guardian

on Mondays. You obviously get a I am doing a column for the Guardian

of material from the Sunday Politics to write about. Have you embarked on

political rehabilitation? It was clear from the point of view of

political rehabilitation? It was George when I was sentenced, he

rehabilitating you, because I had not offended for ten years, it was

actually about stopping people like you, Andrew, Ron doing the same

thing. It was a deterrent effect for the public. That is I think why

thing. It was a deterrent effect for prosecution was brought. I had not

offended for ten years on this, rehabilitate yourself in the public?

coalition to the bitter end? Or should they re-establish their own

Coalition agreement is for the whole Parliament, and the Lib Dems are

going to stay, and should stay. What would be a good result for the Lib

Dems in 2015? The loss of ten, would be a good result for the Lib

interesting election because I think you will have essentially three

party leaders, all of whom are negative ratings so it will be a

battle between the walking wounded. In those circumstances, in my view,

the Lib Dems can come out very well. But you will lose seats, won't

the Liberal Democrats do badly in next year's European elections,

the Liberal Democrats do badly in could come fourth on fifth behind

leadership be in jeopardy? I've could come fourth on fifth behind

in countless cycles where we've could come fourth on fifth behind

very low poll ratings. The normal pickup to the subsequent general

election on average has been 10 percentage points. So he's not in

jeopardy? I think Nick will be there at the next general election. I

think he'll lead the party into at the next general election. I

next general election. I expect we'll do much better than most

people think. If we are heading we'll do much better than most

another hung Parliament, which is Let's be honest, you'd rather be in

coalition with the Labour Party Let's be honest, you'd rather be in

have a repeat of the Conservatives? One of the key things I sawed to

colleagues, whatever your personal preference, I used to be a Labour

Party member, you can derive from that I'm on the left of centre of

the party. I always said to my colleagues in the party, it is

the we are in politics because we are Liberal Democrats, not because

we are either Conservatives or second best Labour. If you don't

take that view, you don't have any bargaining position when it comes to

coalition. You have to be able, genuinely, to do a coalition with

either of the other parties. I understand that, but you'd prefer

Labour? Your personal preference really should not come into this. It

is about making sure you get the best possible deal for the things

you get that with one party rather than another, that's fine. You stand

up for Liberal Democrat values, than another, that's fine. You stand

for Conservative or Labour second best values. You said you're keeping

up your interest in energy matters. Is Ed Miliband right to promise

up your interest in energy matters. temporary price freeze? There's

up your interest in energy matters. pop ewe louse posturing. It is not a

sensible policy. It was tried in California in 2,000 and 2001 which

led to blackouts. We had the Prime Minister promising we should sift

everybody automatically to the unfortunately we're at the stage in

the political cycle where we are getting clap trap. You're against

the freeze? It is a bad idea when we are trying to encourage investment.

When the market can give us some of the lowest gas and electricity

son-in-law of the lowest? Not our base price? The other European Ian

prices are only higher because they put a lot more taxes on to it? Our

base energy prices are among the highest in Europe? No, if you look

at EU comparisons in what goes out to people's households. That's after

all the taxes have been put on them? to people's households. That's after

green taxes is George Osborne with should no better. One the-hip ok

not want it. We do not need it to agreement because the Conservatives

not want it. We do not need it to electricity system. It was a revenue

raising measure by the Tories. It set off a whole load of hairs about

green taxes which are now coming home to roost. Final point to you,

wish we'd more time to talk, you're a big supporter of Leveson-style

press regulation. Will you stop writing for The Guardian if it

refuses to sign up to the Leveson charter? I think that's neither

refuses to sign up to the Leveson nor there. The Guardian gives me a

up to what you believe in will you up to what you believe in will you

support it? No because I'm sure up to what you believe in will you

they'll allow me to make that that point. I think newspapers will sign

up for it. They've had a collapse in public trust and confidence in

recent years. Unparalleled. They need a third party endorsement to

say these guys have cleaned up their act. If they are going to get trust

haven't signed up, which they won't, you can come back and we'll talk

You're watching the Sunday politics. Coming up in about 20 minutes, we'll

I'm Arif Ansari. Coming up in the North West: 60 years on and still

solving the housing crisis — will Help to Buy kick—start construction?

And joining our happy home this week, the Labour MP for Worsley

And joining our happy home this Eccles South, Barbara Keeley. And

for the Conservatives, Jake Berry, the MP for Rossendale and Darwen.

reshuffle. It is flattering a view to say that I should have been

promotions for people from the North conservative women going into the

administration as well. We will conservative women going into the

continue as an age to Ed Balls. I do, and it is a great place to be. I

think the reshuffle has been great, cabinet is women. I think it will be

a long time before the Conservative Balls? It's interesting. It is the

is a great guy to work with. A great ??NEWLINe Yes, it's been a week

is a great guy to work with. A great promotions, demotions and moves

sideways. It's the equivalent of the football transfer window without the

money or the glamour. Plenty of implications for policy too. Claire

Inching her way from the GMTV sofa to the front bench, Esther McVey's

promotion recognises the work she's done on some difficult briefs. The

Wirral West MP made the latest leg of her journey to the top table

Wirral West MP made the latest leg Government with a promotion to

Employment Minister after her work on welfare reform. You can count on

the fingers of one hand the number of women Conservative ministers

the fingers of one hand the number are from Merseyside. They are very

rare species. The last one was back in the 1980s. It's freezing energy

prices are good idea or a Communist part) —— Communist plot? We will

give them the reasons! Another North west MP finds himself championing

one of Labour's flagship policies. And with fracking also a big issue

in the North West, there could be a bumpy ride ahead for newly promoted

Jonathan Reynolds as Shadow Energy and Climate Change Minister. I think

shale gas could be part of the solution. I don't think it will

shale gas could be part of the quite big game changing magic button

that it has been in some other countries, but people do have some

very valid concerned. The Liverpool Garston and Halewood MP Maria Eagle

was shunted from Shadow Transport to Environment. A big supporter of

was shunted from Shadow Transport to — does her removal signal the party

distancing itself from the project? I don't think this is going to harm

the project in any way, shape, or form. There will be a strong message

of support after the next election. international development to become

Northern Ireland. And as predicted on this programme last month... It

is being suggested you are the most likely person to lose your job and

—— in every shuffle. As predicted on this programme last month, Liverpool

West Derby Mp Stephen Twigg finds his career hitting the buffers,

Secretary. The end of the era for Blarites perhaps, though Leigh MP

Andy Burnham remains on course for a head—on collision with Jeremy Hunt

after keeping his Health brief. head—on collision with Jeremy Hunt

we started off with the news about Esther McVeigh. Do you welcome

that? And other prominent women Esther McVeigh. Do you welcome

politics? I think it helps all of us that there are women in the other

parties, so I welcome it. But I think that the Conservative party

has a long way to go. They talk about 30% of the Cabinet being

They have a long way to go. Do you accept that you have a problem? I am

yesterday well, because we were accept that you have a problem? I am

around the corner from each other. She is exceptionally bright. Whether

she happens to be male or female, she is the right kind of person

she happens to be male or female, part of the reason, I understand the

argument about her talent, was part of the reason though also that the

Conservative party once to see women have more voices from the North

Conservative party once to see women Government? It is important that the

Government is representative of Government? It is important that the

society as a whole. We have 22 north—west and we need some of those

voices in Government. We have lots of women MPs. We need more women to

be ministers and in the Cabinet of women MPs. We need more women to

we are making good progress. She is certainly like. I think she is

excellent. There is an important point about why David Cameron needs

women. He has a real problem, he and George Osborne have great difficulty

hit women had very hard —— hit women very hard with their policies. It

does not help that they have hit women so hard. I hope Esther will be

advocating the fact that we have taken many of the lowest people

advocating the fact that we have of tax altogether. We have seen

their tax bill cut in half by this many of whom are in part—time work,

to balance family life. You were not overly impressed by Esther's role as

disabilities minister, where you? My constituency is very hard hit by the

bedroom tax. It is really hitting families of disabled people, carers

who cannot do anything to earn more, to get out of the arrears and pay

the rent. Can I ask you about the overall position. When the coalition

Government came in, there were three ministers who were Northwest MPs.

Now, several years on, we are still Northwest. Is that a problem? I

would certainly like to see more voices from the Northwest. I think

it takes time. If you let me finish, in 2010, we had a whole new group of

represent the Northwest. It takes time for those people to make their

mark and get their feet on the ground and get into office. What is

quite refreshing, I think, is a ground and get into office. What is

of reshuffling that we have had ground and get into office. What is

Government. People in the Secretary of State team, lots of people have

been in that job for three years. They are really getting stuck in. If

you have to change it every six They are really getting stuck in. If

seven months like Tony Blair... Labour could have been too much

change, but when Labour was in Cabinet ministers one point. We

still have four shadow Cabinet members. It matters because of

region needs to be represented and its issues need to be represented.

The interesting thing about this week is that we have the whole of

the health team and Northwest. Jamie Read Tannock, Ed, and if we have

represented. Onto high—speed rail, is the Labour Party getting cold

feet on HS two? I think what the Labour Party is doing is rightly

price just keep going up. Ed Balls said in his conference beach that

there are no blank cheques for this policy, and our new Shadow Secretary

of State said this week that David Cameron's Government is too fond of

that project. With Labour, there are no blank cheques. It is totally

wrong for a project like that to spiral out of control. Jake, a quick

response? I think the real line spiral out of control. Jake, a quick

have said that it will be delivered on—time on budget, and quite a lot

of the overspend is contingent. on—time on budget, and quite a lot

just look at the benefits it will bring to Manchester. Manchester

just look at the benefits it will be within 68 minutes of the capital.

That is one of the best ways to Now, this week, Liverpool City

recipient of its first one—pound home. Taxi driver Jayalal Madde

recipient of its first one—pound given the keys to the house in

Toxteth by Mayor Joe Anderson, along with a DIY instruction manual. He

was one of more than a thousand applicants for 20 properties. It's

part of the council's plan to bring a thousand empty homes back into

Well, Merseyside is just one area facing a housing shortage. Across

the North West, demand is predicted thousands of homes in the next few

years. So will phase two of the government's Help to Buy Scheme

kick—start construction in the region? Phase one allowed first—time

buyers to borrow up to 20% of the value of a new build home from the

Government, interest—free for the first five years. Phase two is open

to first—time buyers and existing home owners. The lender will be

to first—time buyers and existing Government covering up to 15% of the

value of the property. Both are available on properties worth up to

£600,000. Well, Elaine Dunkley's been asking if it will solve a

problem that stretches back decades. We must make up for the arrears

problem that stretches back decades. housing left by 50 years of Tory

bursting, home ownership has been a preoccupation of governments past

and present. In 1979 Thatcher's Government introduced the Right

and present. In 1979 Thatcher's Buy, and councils were forced to

sell their housing stock. Take your forward to this Government and their

offering is the Help to Buy Scheme. Young working couples are still

living at home with their parents. So, it's out with the bank of mum

and dad and in with Government backed loans. Claire Archer is a

personal fitness trainer, and now flat was priced at £128,000, she put

down a 5% deposit and borrowed a 20% difficult for me. I did not have a

lot of savings or a large deposit. And now have my own two—bedroom

property, which is ideal. It was a lot better than what I was the king

at without Help to Buy. The second phase of Help to Buy is now being

getting hands on cash which has phase of Help to Buy is now being

a problem. Government figures show that construction fell in the region

by 47% compared to its peak in that construction fell in the region

and according to a report for the North west over the next five years

homes because there's not enough land available to build on. A couple

building the future, and now a couple who built homes we told on a

double—decker bus! This was one solution offered in the 1940's to a

lack of housing. Decades on, and we are still defining home sweet home.

Property Developer Dr Francis Loow is taking inspiration from the Far

This entire flat is just 20 metres square. I do not believe Britain has

a scarcity of land compared to Hong Kong. The key is that the Hong Kong

Government also recognises that there is no need to have a big

apartment. They start putting up tiny apartments. We have to be

realistic. People cannot afford tiny apartments. We have to be

live in a bigger apartment. We have had 75 sales. Summer Hill Park is a

new development in Liverpool. The sales office has been inundated

new development in Liverpool. The buyers wanting to take up the second

phase of the Help to Buy scheme buyers wanting to take up the second

but developers getting planning permission to build is still a major

concern. You can just imagine the total bureaucracy that gets in the

Statistically, there are a lot of permission. The reality is that

Statistically, there are a lot of just over half of those voices are

no deliverable, because the rest are bogged down in red tape —— are now

it deliverable. From building to borrowing there are many factors

involved in getting the housing confidence but it's measured with

caution for those wanting to get a step up on the property ladder.

caution for those wanting to get a we're also joined now by Daniel

Klemm from the National Housing doing? Well, the Government is doing

a great thing with Help to Buy. doing? Well, the Government is doing

is helping people to move up. What comprehensive approach. Think about

those people who might want to rent to the private sector. We need to

tackle the problem of supply as opposed to just the issue of buying.

You are not worried that they Help to Buy scheme could create a housing

bubble? We are worried about that. But we will have to wait and manage

that very carefully. The real way to tackle the housing crisis is to

recognise that we have not built enough homes. We need homes of all

different shapes and sizes that enough homes. We need homes of all

available to buy. Do you agree that there should be more homes built,

committed to that. And I am on Twitter, and I tweeted this week

that anyone who talks about the housing bubble should think about

people under the age of 25. And housing bubble should think about

depressed housing market. But people want to move on. We want to help

them move on. What happens if the market collapses because people

cannot afford these mortgages? This is not for them. This is a two

people —— this is saying to people that we recognise that not everybody

has rich parents or can afford that we recognise that not everybody

deposit. But if you can prove that you are in a steady job and can

afford the mortgage, but you can only save a 5% deposit, that should

not stop you from owning your own important. That may not be world I

mid—ranking city bankers are keen to use this so they don't have to put

them big deposits for expensive properties in London —— that may not

this has been sold to the public on the basis of the first—time buyer

will stop going up to £600,000 is a very extensive amount. If they could

afford it, then it is not hitting hard. I looked yesterday and there

were some houses in my constituency why should those taxpayers pay for a

scheme, £12 million for a scheme, that is helping out city bankers

that don't have the same concerns? Of course, the taxpayer is not

putting any of this town. It is Of course, the taxpayer is not

guaranteed. And if you want the housing market to work, we inherited

a broken housing market, Labour broke the housing market. You have

to fix the whole market. You can say we are only going to deal with

first—time buyers. People have to be market. This scheme is about fixing

politics of this that you want to make people feel richer, and that if

prices go up you don't really mind? The politics of this is that if

prices go up you don't really mind? want to come to my constituency

prices go up you don't really mind? primary teacher, you cannot say

£50,000 for a deposit between her and her husband. They have a steady

job and contribute to society. The politics of this is that we should

help them, it is the right thing to do. I don't need to come to your

constituency to talk to people who ladder. The reason they cannot is

because house prices are so high, that is the point. I think the

biggest problem is actually the deposit barrier. In the Northwest,

deposit for the house. We are trying to support those people. I think it

would be really interesting to measure which part of the country

this ghosted. I hope the Treasury is looking at it. If it all goes to

London and causes of bubble and pushes up prices, it will not help

anybody. There is no guarantee this will help first—time buyers. One of

private developers is that they will help first—time buyers. One of

to see the man —— man in the market. You don't think they're doing enough

house—building community has not kept up with demand in our country.

Why is that? We so Steve Morgan kept up with demand in our country.

saying that the problem is too much red tape. Planning permission needs

to be looked at. The planning system needs to be changed entirely. It has

never been easier. In Salford, we have got 12,800 properties that

already have planning permission on sites that could actually go ahead.

But for some reason they are not. It is not a planning permission issue.

Is it about building houses to keep the prices up? What I see is that

the developers do not want to go ahead on these sites. They don't

want to build on brown field sites, which is what we would prefer that

they do. I do oppose development if it is is in an inappropriate place.

But we need to build more houses. If you look at the figures, I want

But we need to build more houses. If see everything where it needs to be.

You are clear about what you want? What I am saying to you is that

You are clear about what you want? constituency, so there must be a

problem. That was a community field. What I did want to say is that in

increase in the number of houses built this year. We need to look at

new construction methods. Thank built this year. We need to look at

Time for the rest of the week's built this year. We need to look at

Lawyers acting for the families built this year. We need to look at

21 Hillsborough victims told a hearing ahead of new inquests that

police footage of the disaster may have been edited before being given

to them. Nothing has been done. Rochdale MP Simon Danczuk said

police powers to restrict anyone vulnerable adults — even if they

haven't committed a crime — might have prevented the grooming scandal.

We would have been able to protect the girls that were so clearly

Apprentices from Merseyside and Manchester were among a hundred

civil service trainees to attend an official launch of the scheme in

Westminster. The Government gave Liverpool £2.7 million to improve

bus services in the same week the Transport Minister said scrapping

its bus lanes sent a "worrying And the scientists who developed

graphene — the world's thinnest And the scientists who developed

strongest material — will receive Manchester. They've already won

Barbara, these sexual risk orders that that MP takes is a good idea,

what the user? We must do something about the sexual grooming that has

gone on. I think they would be a very good thing, because we must

protect our young people. What do you think about the idea that he

would be targeting people that have not been convicted? We would have to

look at the evidence. If we can prevent one child or young person

being a victim of the sort of crime than it is something that we should

support. I would like to pay tribute to Simon and the working has done on

this across the house. You would want safeguards so? You would, but

it is very important for these listened to, and that we are taking

That is all we have time for. Back ministerial team this week with

That is all we have time for. Back commentators calling it the purge of

the Blairites, but one poor lamb who fell victim to this perch was Diane

Abbott, not somebody who worshipped at the altar of Tony Blair. Life on

the backbenches means she can pursue other interests such as attending

the Cheltenham literary Festival, and where she joins us now. Welcome.

Why did Ed Miliband fire you? He think the thing that did it for

Why did Ed Miliband fire you? He was me coming out on Syria. This was

Why did Ed Miliband fire you? He a purge of the Blairites, how did

you become collateral damage? I a purge of the Blairites, how did

no idea but the fact that I was a purge of the Blairites, how did

one member of the front bench to go public about my concerns on Syria

probably tipped my enemies in the party machinery over the edge. But

he went your way on Syria, in the end he agreed with your line on

Syria so why would that be for dismissal? I agree with you - you're

fired. Because I actually spoke dismissal? I agree with you - you're

and it was the fact that I spoke up, which was like a pebble falling

and it was the fact that I spoke up, forest or something. I am glad I

spoke up on Syria. He doesn't like people around them than who are

outspoken, who speak their minds? I think he's convinced he needs people

who read from the scripts. People increasingly upset that even though

who read from the scripts. People I was speaking party policy, I was

reading from the script. Since Mr Miliband bid you farewell, you've

said he's doing his best. Is his best good enough? I am sure it will

be. I've always said the Labour Party chose the right Miliband.

be. I've always said the Labour will remain loyal to him on the

backbenches. You're going to be loyal? However, I want to join in

the debate. You're going to be loyal? Absolutely. I was loyal both

in public and private when others were bitching about him behind the

from the backbenches, I hope to were bitching about him behind the

involved in the debate particularly around nick policy. Et's see how

loyal you are. You must be happy with all this new tough talk on

welfare and free schools? Well, with all this new tough talk on

think both Rachel and Tristram are very talented. We're going to have

to see how this all plays out. The issue of free schools, they are

to see how this all plays out. The thing. But diminishing the role

to see how this all plays out. The local authorities is another. There

need strong local authorities. I'm local authorities is another. There

sure Tristram will be aware of that. As for welfare, I'm sure Rachel

knows some of the cuts the Tories have made have been counter prod

ublingtive in -- productive in terms of spending. You wouldn't call that

your full-hearted endorsement, would you? What are you on, and lieu?

your full-hearted endorsement, would haven't seen the detail of Rachel's

new position. You have to wait and see the detail. It is in the papers.

You haven't stopped reading the papers. It was the Observer. When

will you announce you're running for Mayor of London? I have no plans to

announce that I'm running for Mayor Mayor of London? I have no plans to

of London. No plans. That's what Michael his I will Tyne used to

of London. No plans. That's what me. He had no plans to run against

Margaret Thatcher. Are these the same kind of plans you have? I know.

No, no. I have no plans. You know going for it. Everybody knows you're

going for it. Just fess up to your old mate! ! I have no plans to run.

If you did run, who would be, what would be your biggest threat other

than yourself? I think there's a lot of very talented candidates, David

They are all talented. I would have to weigh up the field. What do you

think your chances would be of getting the taxi drivers' vote?

Well, you know, Andrew, some of getting the taxi drivers' vote?

most loyal viewers of This Week getting the taxi drivers' vote?

were taxi drivers and their wives. I'm not frightened of reaching out

to middle England. You will find if you walk around London sub usual ya,

they all know me and they all love This Week. Love This Week. I thought

you were going to say they all love you. One person who loves you, is

Michael Portillo. He wasn't a happy chappie on Thursday night. You can't

see it but you can hear. This is what he said. I was disappointed for

her. She had decided to leave this something else in politics. She

wanted to do something serious. something else in politics. She

had taken what appeared to be a something else in politics. She

position but taken it extremely serious and was committed to the

issues. I'm quite disappointed for her. Why would Ed Miliband do such a

thing. You just mentioned about London mayor, did Diane not ask

thing. You just mentioned about Someone who's an eminent person

thing. You just mentioned about this programme, I don't know how he

could do that. I think Michael's missing you. Are you free this

Thursday night? Make him a happy man, come back to the fold. I think

I may be free this Thursday night. So, if he'll have me, I'll be there.

My people will speak to your people. We'll get it sorted out. Diane,

watch that big vase behind you, you're not insured for. That thanks

Does she have a chance of being Mayor of London? She's very well

known as Michael pointed out. That is important. People who are outside

known as Michael pointed out. That the party fold have traditionally

done well in the mayoral election. The job of being a London mayor

done well in the mayoral election. running an economy the size of a

nation. It is a very serious job. There may be problems with her

running? That was a transparent There may be problems with her

for it. She's potentially a very compelling Coll ticks. People have

left-winger but she's quite tough and conservative. Michael Gove said

he had fallen in love with Diane which That's one vote he has. What

do you think? I thing about Diane Abbott is she has a fantastic way of

connecting. She has a really good way of connecting wi people. She

would be a very strong candidate in candidate. It will probably be a

Labour win next time. Depends, if Labour wins the 2015 election it may

be more difficult. There's a danger for Labour that Diane is the big

personality liked by the party primary but isn't necessarily a

personality liked by the party in come the London general election?

That's true. London is traditionally a Labour city. But Boris managed to

win as an outsider. There are big dangers for Labour with that. I

think, as I said before, somebody who seems a bit independent from

their own party machinery tend to do We've only had mayors so far that

were independent? Indeed. And how well Ken Livingstone did last time.

Not that far behind bar Is Johnson. well Ken Livingstone did last time.

Not that far behind bar Is Johnson. He was and is much more left-wing

than Diane Abbott. Diane didn't He was and is much more left-wing

stray on Syria, it was immigration. Why was Jeremy brown replaced by

This is very much to do with Clegg deciding he has to go back to those

people who abandoned the Liberal Democrats the day they went into

coalition with the Conservatives really, and convince them there

coalition with the Conservatives some holy areas of policy, sacred

areas which they will defend. That includes civil liberties. In the

Home Office, that incident with includes civil liberties. In the

immigration vans went down very badly across the whole nation. Went

down particularly badly with Liberal Democrats and voters. In the Home

somebody there to put a shield on purpose behind it. And Nick Clegg

has won the argument against the left, Vince Cable on the economy,

away day in July, briefings say DrCable's been put in his box. He's

won the argument on economic policy against the left. When it comes

won the argument on economic policy the touchstone issue in the Home

Office, he wants to shore up that vote on the left. And please The

Guardian. This is important for something else going on which is

that Nick Clegg has to keep his parliamentary party happy. That

involves giving them ministerial jobs. A lot of Liberal Democrats

losing their jobs, Michael Moore, because vacancies have to be created

for number people to come in. By Liberal Democrat MPs will have been

on the payroll. It is effective party management. I want to move on

to press regulation. Brian Leveson's famous report, appeared before the

parliamentary select committee. famous report, appeared before the

will run you a clip from Connor politicians got involved in this. We

moved away from the press 300 years ago. The centr commitment is Lord

Leveson wanted a system the press self-regulation. This is state

involvement which I worry about profoundly. He sits on the media

interviews and investigations into the media. Chris Huhne said earlier

he thought all the newspapers would sign up to the Government-backed

Royal Charter. I think he's totally should. But he did say they would. I

think he's wrong. They won't sign up. All the mood music when that

Royal Charter was agreed on Friday was they would not sign up. It is

Maria Miller, is essentially saying to the press industry, if you don't

sign up, the Royal charter will to the press industry, if you don't

ahead. I cannot control the Labour to the press industry, if you don't

industry is wind the clock back to the press industry, if you don't

what they are calling the Puttnam stage. That was earlier this year,

Lord Puttnam was tack amendments which would introduce statutory

regulation. Maria Miller says you statutory legislation but if you

don't sign up to this, it will be a lot worse. Will that work? Playing

the good cop, bad cop routine? Will that pressurise everyone to sign up.

Lots of people are saying this will be a club with no members. It won't

work. As Nick and I broke the story last week that the Government was

going to reject the newspaper-backed one, I'm certain that the newspapers

now, most of them maybe, not all, but most, will go the legal route

and to judicial review on what the Government's proposing and will

and to judicial review on what the it to strains Bowring where freedom

of the press is enshrined. They it to strains Bowring where freedom

fight this? There is enough fury amongst Fleet Street to result in

that. The big political question going forward is which of the party

leaders does the press blame the most for the emergence of press

regulation? The Tories are very confident they'll blame Ed Miliband

the most. They'll target him before 2015. David Cameron gave us Brian

Leveson. You appoint a judge who shouldn't be surprised with what you

got in the Leveson report? I big chunk of press will look at David

Cameron saying, you were the guy who intended what will happen. If he had

have appointed Brian Leveson. If they face more punitive fines over

Labour ale cases they take that they face more punitive fines over

Europe. The Daily Mail and the tallest presumably will have to

suspend their campaign of Britain to leave the European Convention of

suspend that. We must never come out Churchill was behind it. He was

indeed. But it is actually a major constitutional issue whether you

regulate the press or not. There was constitutional issue whether you

a lot of ill feeling that this Marie ya miller statement was snubbing out

on Friday afternoon. Somebody said freedom of the press too important

to sneak out on afully afternoon. The whole subject should be treated

with respect. We've run out of time. I'll be back next Sunday with the

Communities Secretary Eric Pickles at our usual time of 11.00am. If