03/11/2013 Sunday Politics North West


03/11/2013

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Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. It began as

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Plebgate, now it is Plodgate. The evidence of three police officers to

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MPs is branded a great work of fiction. They tried to intimidate

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the Grangemouth bosses, but in the end it was the union that

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capitulated. I will ask Len McCluskey about Unite union's strong

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arm tactics at Grangemouth and Falkirk. They preach women should be

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sidelined and confined to the private sphere. They argued they

:01:16.:01:16.

should be covered up. And in the North West: No planes,

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but trains and automobiles. Can HS2 and road`building transform the

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region's economy? authority is investigating --

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investing thousands of pounds in a GPS tracking system to keep tabs on

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its staff. With me as always, the best and the

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brightest political panel, Helen Lewis, Janan Ganesh and Nick Watt

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who will be tweeting their humiliating climb-down is what they

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got wrong last week in the programme. If this can happen it to

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a Cabinet minister, what hope is there for anyone else? Thus the Home

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Affairs Select Committee concluded what many already thought about the

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treatment of Andrew Mitchell by three self-styled PC plebs. They met

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him to clear the air over what did or did not happen when he was

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prevented from ramming his bike through the Downing Street gates.

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But the officers gave the media and inaccurate account of that meeting.

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Two of them are even accused of misleading the Commons committee.

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The Independent Police Complaints Commission will now reopen there

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enquiry. This is not a story about Andrew Mitchell, it is about the

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police. Keith Vaz is often in high dudgeon and this is the highest dad

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and I have seen him in for some time. They could be held for

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contempt of Parliament and technically they could be sent to

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prison. It has blown up into an enormous story. I do not know what

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is worse, the police trying to stitch up a Cabinet member and try

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to mislead the media or the incompetence they have done it from

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day one. That is quite good. I would sleep more soundly at night if I

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knew the pleas were good at this. It is the incompetence that shocks me.

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And this is just a sideshow. We are still waiting on the main report as

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to what exactly happened outside Downing Street gates. But that not

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will be good for the police either. The file has gone from the

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Metropolitan police to the CPS, so we are limited about what we can

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say. This is about the police Federation. They were set up under

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statute in 1990 as a deal in which a police would not go on strike. This

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is a political campaign to get a Cabinet minister out and the legacy

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of this is the police Federation will have to be reformed. We will

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keep an eye on it. They were Ed Miliband's union backers, they swung

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the Labour leadership for him in 2010. Now the Unite union looks like

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his biggest headache. The Sunday Times has seen extracts of the

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report into the alleged vote rigging to select a Labour candidate in

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Falkirk. There was evidence of coercion and Gregory as well as

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deliberate attempt to frustrate the enquiry. We will be speaking to Len

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McCluskey, the Unite union's General Secretary, in a moment. First out

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the saga began an almost ended up with the loss of 800 jobs at a

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petrochemical plant in Grangemouth. Unite were key players in the

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Grangemouth dispute and the union headed by Len McCluskey has come

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under fire for its intimidator Tariq tactics. In one instance

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demonstrators complete with an inflatable rat picketed the home of

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a INEOS director. The police were called. It was part of a strategy

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the union called leverage. But turning up at people's houses seems

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to represent an escalation. At the centre of the rout was Steve in

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deals -- Stephen Denes. INEOS launched an investigation into him

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as he was suspected of using company time to engineer the selection of

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labour's candidate in Falkirk. That candidate was Karie Murphy, a friend

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of Len McCluskey. Stevie Deans resigned last week and denies any

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wrongdoing, but it capped a dramatic climb-down by Unite union. Len

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McCluskey joins me now. Thanks to the Sunday Times we now know what is

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in this labour report on the Falkirk vote rigging. Forgery, coercion

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trickery, manipulation. You must be ashamed of how Unite union behaved

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in Falkirk. The Sunday Times article is lazy journalism. There is nothing

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new in the article. This was all dealt with by the Labour Party in

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the summer. We rejected those allegations then and we said we had

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done nothing wrong and both the Labour Party and the police in

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Scotland indicated there had been no wrongdoing. The report itself says

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you were trying to thwart the investigation. First you tried to

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fix the selection of a candidate to get your woman in and then you

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thwarted the investigation into the dirty deeds. The reality is the

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Labour Party report was deeply flawed. The Labour Party then

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instructed a solicitor, a lawyer, to do an in-depth investigation and

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during that investigation they got to the bottom of what had happened

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and they decided there was no wrongdoing whatsoever. At the time I

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was so confident we had done nothing, I called for an independent

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enquiry. They were forced to conclude there was no wrongdoing

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because the people who originally complained changed their evidence

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and we now know they did so because Unite union officials helped them to

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rewrite their retraction and Stevie Deans approved it. That is not true.

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We have had 1000 e-mails thrown into the public arena and what is that

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all about? Who is leaking this? They showed the Unite union was rewriting

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the retractions. This interview would go a lot better if you are

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allowed me to finish the question that you asked. These e-mails were

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put into the public arena by the PR company from INEOS. Why are they

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doing this? The truth of the matter is that all of the investigations

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that took place demonstrate there was nothing to answer. This idea

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that the Unite union has rewritten and the evidence from the families

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has been withdrawn, the families are a part of Stevie deems' family. They

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clarified the position. Do you deny that union officials were involved

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in the retractions? I deny it completely. This is important.

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Independent solicitors to witness statements from the family and they

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are the ones that were influencing the Labour Party with the position

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is clarified and there is no case to answer. Do you deny Stevie deems saw

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their retractions? It is his family. So you do not deny it? It is his

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family. This is an ordinary, decent family who were faced with the full

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weight of the pleas, a forensic solicitor. Of course they spoke to

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Stevie Deans. This whole thing is a cesspit. Does it not need an

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independent investigation? This is a trap being laid by Tory Central

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office. They are making all the demands. The media, the Daily Mail,

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the Sunday Times, the Conservative mouthpiece, they are laying tracks

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for Ed Miliband and Ed Miliband should not fall into them. Since

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when did it become part of an industrial dispute to send mobs to

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the home of company families. This is a legitimate form of protest and

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it is a silent protest. We believe if faceless directors are making

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decisions that cripple communities, they cannot expect to simply drift

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back to their own leafy suburbia and not be countable. This is silent

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protest. It is lawful. It may be silent in Grangemouth, but it was

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not silent elsewhere. You went with a giant rat, loud-hailers telling

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everybody the neighbour was evil. No, we did not. You had

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loud-hailers, you even encouraged passing children in Grangemouth to

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join in. That is nonsense. Look at the rat. The reality is the

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Grangemouth community was going to be decimated, Grangemouth was going

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to become a ghost town. I reject totally this idea there were

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loud-hailers and children involved. That is a lie perpetrated by the

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Daily Mail. But you have used these tactics in other disputes. We have

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used the tactics in other disputes, but we have not used loud-hailers at

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people's homes. Because the labour laws are so restrictive we have to

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look at every available means that we can protest. It is an outrage, an

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absolute outrage, that this is happening to British workers in the

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21st-century. It could not happen elsewhere. Is not intimidation the

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wider hallmark of your union? You were quoted as saying to do whatever

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it takes during your attempts to take over the Labour Falkirk

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constituency. You were instructing to dig out the nasty stuff on your

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opponents. That is not true. Let's see these e-mails? This is a con

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trick. Nobody is looking to dig out... This is the words of your

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legal services advisor. Unite has tried to instigate a revival of

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trade union values within the Labour Party. That is what Ed Miliband

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wanted us to do. As soon as we started to be in any way

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ineffective, there were screams and howls of derision. When the company

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started to investigate Stevie Deans, your friend, your campaign manager,

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that he was using company time to moonlight on the job, you called

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INEOS and said unless you stop the investigation we will bring

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Grangemouth to a standstill. I never said that at all. You brought it to

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a standstill. We never brought it to a standstill, the company did. Who

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says that I said that we would bring it to a standstill? You have read it

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in the newspapers. You should not believe everything. I did not make

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that threat to the management. You carried the threat out. You

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instigated an overtime ban and a work to rule. And that is what

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Grangemouth to a standstill because the company decided to close the

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petrochemical site down. Because Stevie Deans was suspended due

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introduced industrial action? Our members in Grangemouth felt he was

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being unfairly treated. In the end you're grandstanding almost cost

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Scotland is most important industrial facility. The day was

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saved by your total capitulation. Grandstanding, capitulation and

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humiliation are grand phrases. There is nothing about capitulation. Len

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McCluskey did not wake up one day and decide to have a dispute with

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INEOS. The workers in that factory democratically elect their shop

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stewards to represent them and to express to management their concerns

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and their views. That is what happened with INEOS. Jack Straw has

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condemned your union's handling of Grangemouth as a catastrophe. Have

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you considered your position? Jack Straw and others in the Labour

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Party, you have to ask them what their agenda is. I am not interested

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in what he says. The truth of the matter is we responded to the

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requirements and needs of our members. At a mass meeting last

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Monday 100% supported their shop stewards and their union. We will

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continue to stand shoulder to shoulder with our members when they

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are faced with difficult situations. You have lost all the union rights.

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You have had to agree to a no strike rule, you have lost pension rights.

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We have not lost rights at all, we are still working with the company

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to implement its survival plan. The Prime Minister is always attacking

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unions and just lately he has taken to praising the automotive

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industry. Jaguar Land Rover, Foxhall, BMW at Cowley, they are all

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Unite union members were the shop stewards are engaged positively to

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implement survival plans and to make a success for the company. That is

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what we do, but by the same token we stand shoulder to shoulder with our

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members who are in struggle and we will always do that and we will not

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be cowed by media attacks on us Is your leadership not proving to be as

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disastrous for the members as Arthur Scargill was for the NUM? My

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membership is growing. I am accountable to my members, two are

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executive, and the one thing they will know is that when they want me

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standing shoulder to shoulder with them when they have a problem, I

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will be there, despite the disgraceful attacks launched on us

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by the media. "A country ready to welcome your

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investment which values your friendship and will never exclude

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anyone because of their race, religion, colour or creed." The

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words of the Prime minister at the World Islamic Economic Forum which

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was hosted for the first time in London this week. The PM's warm

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words are sure to be welcomed by British Muslims who have endured a

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spate of negative headlines. There's been the controversy over the

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wearing of the veil, attitudes to women, and the radicalisation of

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some young British Muslims. In a moment I'll be talking to the

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Secretary General of the Muslim Council of Britain, Farooq Murad.

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First - here's Giles Dilnot. The call to Friday prayers at the east

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London Mosque which has strong links with the Muslim Council of Britain,

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one of the more vocal groups amongst British Muslims. Despite the fact it

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frequently happens, it is neither helpful nor accurate to describe the

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British Muslim community. There are so many different sects,

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traditions, cultures and nationalities, it is more accurate

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to describe the British Muslim communities, but there is one

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question being put to them - are they doing enough internally to

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address some challenging issues Are they willing to confront

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radicalisation, attitudes to non-muslins, two women, and cases of

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sexual exploitation in a meaningful way? A number of them say no, not

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nearly enough. This former jihad de has spent ten years telling young

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Muslim teenagers how they can reject extremist radicalisation, using

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Outward Bound courses and community work, but he and others doing this

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work thing -- think some elders are failing the youngsters. This has

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been going on for decades, one figures -- thing is said in public

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to please people but in private something very different is being

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said and the messages are being confused. Some of the young people,

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it pushes them further into a space where they are vulnerable for

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radical recruiters. For many Muslim youngsters, life is about living 1's

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faith within an increasingly secular society, a struggle not helped if

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rigid interpretations of the Koran are being preached, say some

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sectors. Some practices often don't make sense in 21st-century Britain,

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and you are perhaps creating obstacles if you stick to those and

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it is perhaps better to let go of those cultural problems, especially

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when they need to clear injustices like forced marriage, reticence to

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talk about grooming for example or discrimination against women. There

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is a long list but I am very clear that in fact the bad Muslim is the

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one who sticks to unflinching, narrow dogmatic fundamentalist

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perception of religion. One issue often focused on is the wearing of

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minicab. Polling suggests 80% of Britons would favour a ban in public

:20:37.:20:51.

places. -- the niqab. Many people don't seem to recognise the legacy

:20:52.:21:03.

of the niqab. Many people preach that women should be sidelined and

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that they are sexual objects that should be covered up and the

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preservation of morality falls on their shoulders. The Muslim Council

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of Britain recently got praise for holding a conference on combating

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sexual exploitation. In the wake of abuse cases that had involved

:21:20.:21:25.

predominantly Pakistani men. For one man who has followed the story for

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some years, the Muslim Council of Britain needs to do much more. We

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need to get along together and if things like attitudes towards the

:21:39.:21:45.

normal slim girl in stark contrast to the expression of honour and

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chastity of the Muslim girl, your sister or daughter, are such that

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actions that would be an fought off with a slim girl becomes permissible

:21:58.:22:02.

with a white girl, then we are all in trouble. To some, attitudes to

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women are not limited to sexual interactions at the very structures

:22:09.:22:13.

of life in Muslim communities and indeed the Muslim Council of Britain

:22:14.:22:17.

itself. I would like to ask the Muslim Council of Britain what they

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are doing about the fact that very few mosques give voices to

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are doing about the fact that very the fact that someone women are

:22:35.:22:34.

experiencing female genital mutilation and forced marriages

:22:35.:22:39.

what about the women who are getting married and their marriages are not

:22:40.:22:42.

being registered and they are being left homeless and denied maintenance

:22:43.:22:47.

rights, what about the fact there are sharia rights that have been

:22:48.:22:50.

found to be discriminating against women, and the fact there are men in

:22:51.:22:55.

this country who continue to hold misogynistic views about women, what

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are you doing? The occasional press release will not solve this problem

:23:02.:23:07.

of a deeply patriarchal community. That all of these issues can be

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exploited to the point of Islam phobia is not doubted, but many

:23:12.:23:16.

Muslims feel that unless the communities do tackle this openly, a

:23:17.:23:21.

big cultural gap will exist between the two.

:23:22.:23:28.

And the Secretary General of the Muslim Council of Britain, Farooq

:23:29.:23:31.

Murad, joins me now. One visible sign that sets muslins aside is the

:23:32.:23:40.

veils that cover women's faces. Do you think it makes them impossible

:23:41.:23:47.

to be part of mainstream society? The niqab is not an obligatory

:23:48.:23:55.

requirement. But do you accept that those who wear it are cutting

:23:56.:23:57.

themselves off from mainstream society? Some people do, and whilst

:23:58.:24:12.

wearing niqab, some of them are working in various walks of life

:24:13.:24:14.

successfully and it is seen as a faith requirement, but it is a red

:24:15.:24:18.

herring in the sense that it applies to such a small number of Muslim

:24:19.:24:25.

girls. For many Muslim preachers, isn't separation precisely the point

:24:26.:24:35.

of the niqab? Certainly not, if you look at the Muslim women in the

:24:36.:24:39.

public sphere, we have many very successful women. But not the ones

:24:40.:24:48.

who are veiled. Not in the public arena as such, but the veil is a

:24:49.:24:55.

practice which is practised by a very small number. Do you favour

:24:56.:25:02.

it? I personally think it is not a requirement. But do you think women

:25:03.:25:08.

should wear the veil? I think it is wrong to force women to wear the

:25:09.:25:13.

veil. I asked if in your opinion women should wear the veil? It is

:25:14.:25:18.

important not to force women to wear the veil. Should they of their free

:25:19.:25:25.

choice where the veil? A lot of individuals do things out of their

:25:26.:25:28.

free choice which I do not approve of, I don't think it is conducive it

:25:29.:25:33.

helps their cause, but I do not have the right to take their choice away

:25:34.:25:39.

from them. I am still unsure if you think it is a good thing or a bad

:25:40.:25:44.

thing. Are not many Muslim women in this country being forced by Muslim

:25:45.:25:48.

preachers and often their male relations who want to keep Muslim

:25:49.:25:54.

women their place? As I said, it is wrong for anyone to force Muslim

:25:55.:26:01.

women. But how would we ever know in a family if a woman was being

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forced? Exactly, we don't know what is going on in people 's homes and

:26:09.:26:13.

what pressure is being applied. I want you to look at this picture,

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very popular on Islamic websites, and it shows the women who is

:26:19.:26:23.

wearing the niqab having a straight route to heaven, and the other

:26:24.:26:30.

Muslim woman dressed in western gear condemned to hell. Do you consider

:26:31.:26:33.

that a proper message for Muslim women? Not at all, I don't. So any

:26:34.:26:43.

Islamic websites in Britain... The Muslim Council of Britain is an

:26:44.:26:47.

organisation of five affiliates from across the country and this is not

:26:48.:26:53.

coming from any of them. As I said, those minority views propagated by

:26:54.:26:59.

individuals should not be used to represent Muslim community. So that

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would not have the support of the Muslim Council of Britain? It would

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not have the support. What about the Muslim free school that requires

:27:10.:27:21.

children as young as 11 to wear a black veil outside of school? Do you

:27:22.:27:28.

agree with that? I am not sure exactly what the policy is... I have

:27:29.:27:37.

just told you, do you agree that girls as young as 11 should wear a

:27:38.:27:46.

black burka outside of school? I don't think it should be imposed on

:27:47.:27:52.

anybody. But this is the desired dress School of the Muslim females.

:27:53.:28:03.

I am asking for your view. I said it at the beginning that I do not think

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it should be imposed. Would you send your daughter to a school that would

:28:10.:28:15.

wear a black burka at the age of 11? Would you? No. It seems that some

:28:16.:28:26.

muslins are determined to segregate young Muslim girls right from the

:28:27.:28:33.

start to very early from society. It is not their segregation as such, I

:28:34.:28:37.

would say that there are faith schools, if you look at an Islamic

:28:38.:28:46.

girls school in Blackburn in a traditional setting, it has come the

:28:47.:28:51.

top of the league table this year in the secondary school league tables.

:28:52.:28:59.

But it doesn't make 11-year-olds wear black burkas. Many of those

:29:00.:29:03.

girls go on to have a successful career. Not wearing black burkas. I

:29:04.:29:12.

am sure there are examples of women who do have successful careers.

:29:13.:29:17.

There is a very conservative movement from the continent on

:29:18.:29:30.

Islam, and the issue supposedly based on Islamic law on their

:29:31.:29:34.

website. Here is one of their recent judgements. The female is encouraged

:29:35.:29:41.

to remain within the confines of her home as much as possible, she should

:29:42.:29:45.

not come out of the home without need and necessity. What do you

:29:46.:29:50.

think of that? We need to say the whole context of that quote. They

:29:51.:29:55.

are saying they should stay at home as much as possible, do you agree

:29:56.:30:05.

with that? I see many Muslim women who are walking about... But this is

:30:06.:30:13.

what the mosque is recommending women should do. The practice is

:30:14.:30:18.

quite the contrary. Let me show you another one. Another Fatwa. Do you

:30:19.:30:40.

agree with that? These have been picked out from material dating back

:30:41.:30:44.

to different cultural settings and in practice they are not applied.

:30:45.:30:50.

This is advice being given as we speak. This is not being practised.

:30:51.:30:57.

Do you agree with it? No, not at all. These are from the DL Monday

:30:58.:31:04.

mosques, how come 72 of these mosques are affiliated to your

:31:05.:31:16.

counsel? There may be publications from one of their scholars, but they

:31:17.:31:26.

have been written in countries abroad and translated. This is

:31:27.:31:31.

advice being given to young women now. They are affiliated to the

:31:32.:31:37.

Muslim Council of Britain. Do you ever speak to them about that? The

:31:38.:31:43.

Muslim Council is a very broad organisation. We are working on lots

:31:44.:31:50.

of common issues to create a community which positively

:31:51.:31:58.

integrates. Did you ever speak to them to say this is not appropriate

:31:59.:32:05.

for British Muslims? There may be certain ad buys and publications

:32:06.:32:08.

available, but people make their choices. So it is OK for your

:32:09.:32:17.

organisation to issue things like that? Many of these things will fall

:32:18.:32:26.

under scrutiny and we need to create that. Why do only 26% of British

:32:27.:32:36.

mosques have facilities for women? If you go back to the requirement of

:32:37.:32:42.

prayer, it was not obligatory for women to come to the masks to

:32:43.:32:48.

prayer. When a poorer community began putting up mosques at the very

:32:49.:32:54.

beginning in terraced houses... Did you have a policy to encourage them?

:32:55.:33:02.

Is it on your website? It is in our practices that 20% of the council

:33:03.:33:12.

have to be female. Coming out of this movement there is a conscious

:33:13.:33:17.

stream of superiority between Muslims and non-Muslims. Look at

:33:18.:33:24.

this quote. He is a well-known picture in this country.

:33:25.:33:41.

That is what he wants to stop. I disagree with that. We believe we

:33:42.:33:53.

live in this society and Muslims in any society of the world, and they

:33:54.:33:58.

have historically lived as minorities in many countries... You

:33:59.:34:04.

would this associate yourself from that? Why do you allow people like

:34:05.:34:11.

that to be affiliated to you? The requirement is for any organisation

:34:12.:34:18.

to be affiliated is that they are bound by the Charity commission s

:34:19.:34:22.

rules and regulations. We only accept those who are under the law

:34:23.:34:29.

of this country. This is a matter of taste. Let me move on to a bigger

:34:30.:34:38.

issue. In 2009 you signed the Istanbul dash-mac the Istanbul

:34:39.:34:45.

declaration was signed. Do you still support it? No, we never signed it

:34:46.:34:56.

or supported it. One of your leading lights signed it. In the media

:34:57.:35:05.

mainstream he defended his position. You have this associated yourself

:35:06.:35:11.

from it? What is wrong with that? I am not sure about the declaration

:35:12.:35:19.

because we disassociated ourselves. Before reading it? We did not sign

:35:20.:35:28.

it. You have not read it? I do not know all the aspects of the

:35:29.:35:34.

declaration, but at the time in the national newspapers and media there

:35:35.:35:44.

was a discussion and a debate and it was highlighted that that was not

:35:45.:35:51.

what was meant by the declaration. When did you decide so is the

:35:52.:35:55.

yourself from the declaration? From day one. We never signed it. The

:35:56.:36:05.

East London Mosque which you are personally closely associated with

:36:06.:36:08.

is the venue for a number of extremist speakers, who espoused

:36:09.:36:20.

extremist positions. In 2009 the mosque posted a video and

:36:21.:36:24.

presentation by somebody described by the UN Security Council as an

:36:25.:36:30.

Al-Qaeda leader supporter. Another speaker described Christians and

:36:31.:36:34.

Jews as Phil. You have had a jihad is supporter of the Taliban there.

:36:35.:36:39.

Why do you do nothing to stop extremists like that at this mask

:36:40.:36:47.

with which you are associated with? We do not have anything to do with

:36:48.:36:52.

any rhetoric that condones or supported violence. We issue

:36:53.:36:58.

guidelines and the mosque itself is a registered charity which has its

:36:59.:37:03.

own rules and regulations, but it is a very large mosques and lots of

:37:04.:37:07.

organisations book and come and told their gatherings. We rent out the

:37:08.:37:13.

facilities. You were prepared to speak alongside a man who saluted

:37:14.:37:25.

suicide bombers, and said 9/11 was a Zionist conspiracy. Why would you

:37:26.:37:31.

share a platform like that? I did not share a platform like that.

:37:32.:37:35.

Different organisations come and have conferences here. Why did you

:37:36.:37:43.

agree? I did not agree with that. I completely reject that. When you add

:37:44.:37:52.

all this up the attitude to women, the alliance with the most

:37:53.:37:58.

fundamentalist Islamic mosques, the toleration of intolerant views, a

:37:59.:38:02.

willingness for you to be counted among them, why should anybody of

:38:03.:38:07.

goodwill, either a Muslim or a non-Muslim, regard the MCB as a good

:38:08.:38:16.

force? It is an organisation which embraces different organisations

:38:17.:38:23.

which are affiliated in the Muslim community. You have taken snippets

:38:24.:38:27.

of certain individual views which are not the views of our affiliates.

:38:28.:38:33.

It would be unfair to represent our view based on those which you have

:38:34.:38:38.

highlighted in this programme. The work that we do is quite clear and

:38:39.:38:46.

is on our website. They are all associated with you, but we will

:38:47.:38:51.

have to leave it there. You are watching the Sunday Politics. Coming

:38:52.:38:53.

up: I will be talking to joke Hello, I'm Arif Ansari. Coming up in

:38:54.:39:10.

the North West... No planes, but trains and

:39:11.:39:15.

automobiles, can High Speed Rail and road`building transform the

:39:16.:39:17.

region's economy? Let's meet the three with tickets. Paul Maynard,

:39:18.:39:23.

Conservative MP for Blackpool North and Cleveleys. Dave Watts, Labour MP

:39:24.:39:28.

for St Helens North and chair of the Parliamentary Labour Party. Gina

:39:29.:39:32.

Dowding, a Lancashire County Council and European Parliament a candidate

:39:33.:39:38.

for the Green party. We start in Lancashire, where this week, bleeps

:39:39.:39:43.

launched an investigation into possible financial irregularities at

:39:44.:39:45.

the County Council. `` police launched. In April, the council

:39:46.:39:51.

awarded One Connect, a joint venture between the council and Beattie a

:39:52.:39:55.

?5 million contract to manage the council's vehicles. The council s

:39:56.:40:01.

Chief Executive Phil Halsall was a director of One Connect. Six days

:40:02.:40:05.

late, Conservative Geoff Driver lost his job as Council Leader following

:40:06.:40:08.

the local elections, and the bow launched an enquiry. Mr Halsall was

:40:09.:40:13.

suspended in August and two weeks ago left his job. Meanwhile, in

:40:14.:40:18.

September, the council informed police about payments of more than

:40:19.:40:22.

?500,000 to David McElhinney, who worked on secondment to BT

:40:23.:40:26.

overseeing the One Connect deal and a similar one in Liverpool. The

:40:27.:40:32.

police have confirmed exactly wish aspect they are looking into. ``

:40:33.:40:38.

wished `` which aspect. Geoff Driver has been busy for an enquiry to get

:40:39.:40:42.

the facts into the open. We were not able to get hold of David

:40:43.:40:45.

McElhinney. Gina, you are a Lancashire County

:40:46.:40:48.

Council. This must have been pretty destabilises. Difficult times for

:40:49.:40:55.

the County Council. Absolutely. It is terrible news. It is depressing.

:40:56.:41:02.

Very concerning for local taxpayers. A bad day for the reputation of

:41:03.:41:08.

local government. What I hope comes out of this is that we get some

:41:09.:41:11.

transparency about what has been going on. I was elected to the

:41:12.:41:15.

council in May and I know nothing about the background. But I think

:41:16.:41:22.

the people of Lancashire are owed an explanation and a full

:41:23.:41:24.

investigation, and it needs to see the light of day, as to what has

:41:25.:41:28.

been going on. What do you think, Dave? I would say that it is

:41:29.:41:34.

important for local government to be transparent. As I understand, there

:41:35.:41:39.

has been gagging clause put on some individuals in this case, that is a

:41:40.:41:43.

bad thing. Never had to introduce any gagging clauses when I was

:41:44.:41:47.

leader and I do not see why any council Chief Executive or leader of

:41:48.:41:51.

the council should allow it in their own council. Paul, you are a

:41:52.:41:54.

Lancashire MP. What do you make of it? The public want to have the most

:41:55.:42:02.

confidence they can in our elected officials, and in public officials

:42:03.:42:06.

as well, and those elected to represent them. If there are any

:42:07.:42:09.

allegations, they have to be considered thoroughly. I welcome the

:42:10.:42:15.

fact that the lease have lodged an enquiry, I hope everyone can be

:42:16.:42:19.

opened, so the public can have the best confidence that things were

:42:20.:42:22.

done properly, and if that is not the case, there will be a price to

:42:23.:42:28.

pay. Do you have debts yourself is Mac I just know that there would not

:42:29.:42:33.

be a police enquiry at the was not something concerning people. Let's

:42:34.:42:40.

let the police investigate and come in with their findings when the time

:42:41.:42:44.

comes. Another week, another report on High Speed Rail. Lodged in

:42:45.:42:47.

Manchester, it is the Government's fifth business case. What could it

:42:48.:42:52.

mean for us? Supporters say it will slash journey

:42:53.:42:57.

times between London and the North West and provide much`needed extra

:42:58.:43:00.

capacity. The first stage from London to Birmingham could be

:43:01.:43:04.

finished by 2026 and seven years later, the line heading North West

:43:05.:43:09.

to Manchester and also linking up with the West Coast Mainline, just

:43:10.:43:13.

south of Wigan, is predicted to open. It will cost ?42.6 billion,

:43:14.:43:19.

but for every pound spent, the Government estimates it will now

:43:20.:43:25.

produce an economic effect of ? .30, down from the original estimate of

:43:26.:43:30.

?2.50. A total fall in revenue of almost ?9 billion. On the basis of

:43:31.:43:36.

those figures, the parliamentary bill was passed by MPs, allowing

:43:37.:43:40.

money to be spent on surveys and buying up land and property. But

:43:41.:43:44.

High Speed Rail is slowly moving forward.

:43:45.:43:48.

A high`speed future, bringing jobs, better connections and the country

:43:49.:43:52.

finally in line with its European neighbours. If Britain decides that

:43:53.:43:58.

High Speed Rail is not for Britain, this is a brave decision, this is

:43:59.:44:01.

saying that Spain, Italy, France, Germany, China, Japan, have got

:44:02.:44:08.

things fundamentally wrong. No`one at the National Rail Conference

:44:09.:44:12.

needed convincing. They told the Government they can deliver the

:44:13.:44:15.

project, probably under budget and earlier than scheduled. All they

:44:16.:44:22.

need is Parliament to say yes. I understand the desire for a speedier

:44:23.:44:27.

building of the line at it is one thing I will be talking to that I

:44:28.:44:31.

will be talking about with David Higgins about. In this new version,

:44:32.:44:37.

they say only HS2 can reach the gap to North and South, and satisfy the

:44:38.:44:41.

growth in passenger numbers. Without it, they said Owens of pounds will

:44:42.:44:46.

be spent and it will be 14 years of weekend closures. The city leaders

:44:47.:44:52.

in the North West say it kick`start regeneration objects like this one,

:44:53.:44:55.

Aaron Biggar Delhi. Without it, the economy of the North West could

:44:56.:44:59.

stagnate. A recent study said HS2 could boost the UK economy by ? 5

:45:00.:45:06.

billion. It is not just the big cities benefiting. Wigan could have

:45:07.:45:11.

a potential boost of ?81 million. It also estimated losers, towns not on

:45:12.:45:16.

the route. Lancaster, or to ?5 million. Chester and Ellesmere Port,

:45:17.:45:21.

?29 million. I do not think it is the best way to improve the

:45:22.:45:24.

structure. It is suited to countries in which the cities are a long way

:45:25.:45:31.

apart and the populations are concentrated in those cities. We are

:45:32.:45:35.

not a country like that, we have communities all over the country had

:45:36.:45:39.

many of those are going to lose out in a variety of ways. Concern over

:45:40.:45:44.

the scheme pondered caution from Labour's front bench. The Shadow

:45:45.:45:49.

Chancellor, telling everyone it will not go ahead. By Thursday, the

:45:50.:45:54.

preliminary bill was passed and cross`party consensus return. The

:45:55.:45:59.

whole of the Parliamentary Labour Party is supporting this project and

:46:00.:46:04.

this bill. I am grateful at this date for what appears to be a

:46:05.:46:10.

break`out of political consensus. If the Labour leadership does derail

:46:11.:46:12.

the project over money, they will face a bumpy ride from councils

:46:13.:46:16.

here. Paul, you are a supporter of High

:46:17.:46:22.

Speed Rail. Are you surprised there has not been public `` more public

:46:23.:46:27.

enthusiasm? Agreement there has been a great deal of enthusiasm, most

:46:28.:46:30.

people do want to see an improvement to the existing intercity lines The

:46:31.:46:35.

problem is not about the speed or the time saved, but the capacity

:46:36.:46:40.

issues. Making sure we can get more trains onto the track between the

:46:41.:46:48.

North West and London. The line is full up at the moment and we cannot

:46:49.:46:53.

get the new trains in that we need to expand capacity.

:46:54.:46:59.

But there does not seem to be that groundswell of support, there are

:47:00.:47:02.

still quite a lot of scepticism although people perhaps might quite

:47:03.:47:05.

like it, they are wondering if it is value for my. It is enormous, the

:47:06.:47:12.

amount of money. But we have to look at the cost if we do not go ahead

:47:13.:47:18.

with it. We do not want to see an affluent London floating away and

:47:19.:47:22.

leaving us behind. There is an immense economic output gap to make

:47:23.:47:27.

up with the South of England are part of that is done by improving

:47:28.:47:30.

transport links to generate more from our local economy and improve

:47:31.:47:35.

its within the North as well. Saw more business people are able to

:47:36.:47:37.

come up from London to work here? Exactly, it is also imported we can

:47:38.:47:43.

get from Liverpool to Manchester more speedily, or Manchester to

:47:44.:47:48.

Sheffield. So we cannot just look at HS2 in isolation, we had to look at

:47:49.:47:51.

it alongside things like the Northern Hub. Let's have a look at

:47:52.:47:58.

how much one study says it will cost, compared with elsewhere. In

:47:59.:48:03.

France, High Speed Rail costs ? million per mile to build. In

:48:04.:48:07.

Germany, 22, Spain 34, in the UK, it will cost ?129 million per mile

:48:08.:48:19.

Dave, too expensive? My party does not write a blank cheque. The reason

:48:20.:48:24.

for the high costs is that the Conservative Government has

:48:25.:48:29.

succumbed to backbench pressure and is tunnelling most of this, or a

:48:30.:48:34.

large section of it. My worry is that ?48 billion and counting, by

:48:35.:48:40.

the time we actually get there, there will be no money left to bring

:48:41.:48:44.

the rail system into the North West and beyond. The people behind it say

:48:45.:48:49.

they are clear what the budgets are for both its of the line, and they

:48:50.:48:53.

are on target and on budget and they will stick to that. But they have

:48:54.:48:57.

not build anything yet. If anyone can tell me of a mega steam this

:48:58.:49:02.

size that comes in on time and on price, I will be amazed. I do not

:49:03.:49:08.

believe, the Olympics did not come in on time, well, it came in on

:49:09.:49:15.

time, but not on budget. So you think there are better ways to spend

:49:16.:49:19.

the cash Chew Magna if you want to stimulate the North West, you should

:49:20.:49:24.

look at the East`West rail link That would open up the access to

:49:25.:49:30.

Europe and also the access from Ireland to Liverpool. That would be

:49:31.:49:34.

much better use of resources and would cost a lot less and would have

:49:35.:49:37.

an immediate effect. Where does the Green party stand? We are absolutely

:49:38.:49:49.

against HS2, it does not stack up. It has not been robust Lee assessed

:49:50.:49:55.

`` robustly assessed to meet its objectives and we want to see a

:49:56.:49:58.

rebalance the economy between North and South, but there is no evidence

:49:59.:50:03.

that HS2 will do that. Just explain that side of it. You do not agree

:50:04.:50:09.

with his argument deer `` his argument? We need to be moving

:50:10.:50:16.

towards more localised economies. Just dividing faster trains down to

:50:17.:50:20.

London from Manchester, and already there own figures are saying that

:50:21.:50:28.

for every one person travelling from Manchester to London and back, there

:50:29.:50:31.

are three doing it the other way. So this is clearly about people coming

:50:32.:50:36.

up from London and back. That is not a bad thing if they come to do

:50:37.:50:40.

business here. But what we need is jobs and a good rail infrastructure

:50:41.:50:45.

within the region. That is why they are coming, it is not for tourism.

:50:46.:50:49.

But we need to have our own sustainable economy within the

:50:50.:50:53.

region. We need better rail systems. At the moment, it hits you as long

:50:54.:50:58.

to get from Lancaster to Liverpool as does from Manchester London.

:50:59.:51:03.

Which is why we are not just investing in HS2, but in the

:51:04.:51:06.

Northern Hub, which facilitates greater travel within the North We

:51:07.:51:12.

have electrified rail lines in the region. HS2 is not the only

:51:13.:51:15.

improvement we are seeing from this Government in the North of England.

:51:16.:51:17.

Are you disappointed with the mismanagement of this? Costs have

:51:18.:51:24.

risen and the early figures do not bear relation to what we are now at.

:51:25.:51:30.

Costs have been rising but I and confidence `` but I am confident

:51:31.:51:33.

that we will stick to our budget. If we do not go ahead with it, will we

:51:34.:51:39.

be back here in ten years time, arguing about intercity trains Chew

:51:40.:51:43.

Magna will with these `` intercity trains? The North has to be part of

:51:44.:51:49.

the UK, and it will generate greater economic growth by being part of

:51:50.:51:56.

this. Avenue North West MPs been putting pressure on the Labour

:51:57.:51:58.

leadership to get behind High Speed Rail? Some of them have and some of

:51:59.:52:04.

them have not. Our position is we are not writing a blank cheque. Is

:52:05.:52:09.

the government? It is, it wants to go ahead and did it says it is on

:52:10.:52:15.

budget but what happens if that budget is broken? Is someone going

:52:16.:52:22.

to stop this system midway? That is as far as it will go. I'd like from

:52:23.:52:28.

rail to roads, Lancashire stands to benefit from hundreds of million as

:52:29.:52:32.

of investment over the next decade, under the Preston City Deal.

:52:33.:52:35.

As if that was not enough, people are being asked about a transport

:52:36.:52:38.

master plan for the east of the county. 55 years after the

:52:39.:52:44.

country's first motorway opened in Lancashire, our roads still the way

:52:45.:52:51.

forward? `` our roads. Lancashire has a proud history of

:52:52.:53:00.

road`building. In 1958, Harold Macmillan opened Britain's first

:53:01.:53:08.

motorway, Preston bypass. You were here when the motorway opened, you

:53:09.:53:12.

met the Prime Minister, what did he say? He said hello to me. He said,

:53:13.:53:17.

what do you think about the motorway? I said, it is amazing He

:53:18.:53:24.

said, you will remember this day for the rest of your life. In the years

:53:25.:53:31.

since the motorway opened, there have been plenty more built in this

:53:32.:53:36.

county, but many of Lancashire's roads remain gridlocked, so the

:53:37.:53:39.

solution and the plan for the future is to build more roads. Because of

:53:40.:53:47.

the bypass being built for the den, there will be less traffic, the sign

:53:48.:53:53.

of `` the new city deal has reached ?1 billion for new projects in

:53:54.:53:56.

Preston. Without the infrastructure in place,

:53:57.:54:01.

but cannot get anywhere and it is important, not just to get

:54:02.:54:04.

Lancashire moving but to get Lancashire's economy moving. If not

:54:05.:54:09.

happen overnight but within ten years, this will be a vastly

:54:10.:54:13.

different county. At road`building is not the right priority for

:54:14.:54:18.

everyone. Economic benefit comes from public transport improvement.

:54:19.:54:21.

If the number one priority is roads, we will not be seeing the

:54:22.:54:24.

improvements in the economy. Those cities who invest in public

:54:25.:54:28.

transport are the ones who see the real economic benefits. Wiggo start

:54:29.:54:35.

to get realistic attempts to get people out of their cars. `` if we

:54:36.:54:40.

attempt. People were started see that they have rail that works,

:54:41.:54:44.

buses that work, cycling facilities that work for people. Not just in

:54:45.:54:54.

Preston, where there is new roads, in East Lancashire there is also a

:54:55.:54:56.

transport masterplan in place. Two weeks ago, the Economist said towns

:54:57.:55:04.

like they should be left to die so will this become a road to nowhere?

:55:05.:55:12.

`` towns like Burnley. That view is a lot of hot air,

:55:13.:55:18.

according to those at BCW Engineering, who employ 130 people

:55:19.:55:23.

in Burnley, supplying parts for Jaguar and BAE Systems among others.

:55:24.:55:30.

We have been recognised and we expect the report to be that we do

:55:31.:55:36.

not respect to report to be saying that people should move out of the

:55:37.:55:39.

time. For the supply chain, it is very important that we can reach

:55:40.:55:44.

different suppliers, our customers have better links. So, where will it

:55:45.:55:51.

end? It is time we started looking at what used to happen in the old

:55:52.:55:56.

comics, where they go up in the air as well, to do motorway is! That is

:55:57.:56:03.

one solution they have not thought of! We will have to see. Probably

:56:04.:56:11.

not in my lifetime. For Ann and the rest of my Fisher, we will get to

:56:12.:56:14.

see this latest time to make life easier for drivers and whether it

:56:15.:56:18.

helps to I've the economy. Dave, do we want to see more of

:56:19.:56:25.

that? We need more investment in all of our transport systems, whether it

:56:26.:56:30.

is road, rail or airports. When I was Chairman of economic developer,

:56:31.:56:33.

we built a road which was described as a road to nowhere, but you go

:56:34.:56:38.

there now and you will see thousands of jobs being created. So it can be

:56:39.:56:44.

very good for the local community, but you need to balance these

:56:45.:56:47.

things. I don't think we will ever get people away from their cards in

:56:48.:56:50.

the numbers that some people would like. The worst thing you can have

:56:51.:56:54.

for pollution is congestion, which we are seeing in a lot of roads It

:56:55.:56:58.

seems to me that perhaps this is an area where the needs to be some

:56:59.:57:02.

investment in roads. But not taking it away from rail and other forms of

:57:03.:57:08.

transport. Is this what you would like to see more of? Too much

:57:09.:57:12.

emphasis on roads and not enough on sustainable transport solutions

:57:13.:57:16.

What you get with roads is more traffic. You can free up some road

:57:17.:57:21.

space for the time, then it fills up. The congestion builds up again.

:57:22.:57:26.

It is not a long`term sustainable solution. What we need to do is look

:57:27.:57:31.

at integrated transport systems across our cities and Lancashire. So

:57:32.:57:38.

that smart ticketing, it can make public transport easier, cheaper,

:57:39.:57:44.

more reliable, regular, that is the way to get people out of their cars.

:57:45.:57:48.

What they've is saying is that in the meantime when you bid `` when

:57:49.:57:52.

you build a big role, you can see economic development. What you often

:57:53.:57:57.

see with a new road is within development along that stretch, and

:57:58.:58:03.

it can easily suck out the economic activity in the centres of

:58:04.:58:05.

population, which is where we need them. There is plenty of evidence

:58:06.:58:09.

that roads to not regenerate local economies, they create and develop

:58:10.:58:14.

it, that is not what we want. We need to look at rail investment

:58:15.:58:17.

across the county. But not high speed. What do you think was Mac ``

:58:18.:58:27.

what do you think? Two of the project are actually rail and trams.

:58:28.:58:32.

There is a tramway extension. You cannot get much more sustainable

:58:33.:58:35.

than that. But not all roads are bad, some which are generating

:58:36.:58:40.

congestion, we tried to see if we can reduce that. But not every road

:58:41.:58:45.

project is a bad one. We to remember also that we need to promote

:58:46.:58:49.

economic growth and I am always concerned that the Green party is

:58:50.:58:53.

sometimes a bit antigrowth. I do not state every road is a bad road. No,

:58:54.:58:58.

it is about the type of economic activity. What we seem to be having,

:58:59.:59:02.

the whole debate is about a globalised economy and every thing

:59:03.:59:06.

focused around London. We need more activity within the region, more

:59:07.:59:09.

support for the local economy, and encouraging people to travel less,

:59:10.:59:13.

not pandering to this idea that everyone has to go everywhere

:59:14.:59:18.

Twitter and for longer. `` quicker. I think we need more transport

:59:19.:59:24.

investment than we have had in the past. The reason I am cynical about

:59:25.:59:29.

the high`speed that like about High Speed 2 is it'll suck out lots of

:59:30.:59:34.

money that could be spent on other things. We need to address all these

:59:35.:59:38.

things. We need roads, more airports, rail systems, but as we

:59:39.:59:42.

have seen over the last 30 years, most of the investment in the

:59:43.:59:46.

structure has gone down south, we should have had our fair share.

:59:47.:59:53.

Selling High Speed 2 as an author and scheme is extremely unlikely

:59:54.:59:56.

that the benefits will be derived in the North West and beyond, it is

:59:57.:00:00.

more likely in London. With Mac lets ask Paul about that. It is often the

:00:01.:00:06.

case that the stronger economic region does better initially from

:00:07.:00:13.

HS2, Bible `` what will make a difference is the housing and

:00:14.:00:18.

schools policies, they are able to take advantage of the opportunities

:00:19.:00:21.

that High Speed Rail offers. Looking overseas to Europe, the areas that

:00:22.:00:26.

benefited most had better plans to cope when the time came for the

:00:27.:00:30.

train to open. Time for the rest of the news now, with Mark Edwardson.

:00:31.:00:38.

Birkenhead MP Frank Field has asked the Attorney General to appeal the

:00:39.:00:41.

five`year sentence of a solvable and who kept a tenure old girl as a

:00:42.:00:45.

slave was up Tallat Ashar and her husband were convicted earlier this

:00:46.:00:48.

month. Let me go home, Andy Burnham has

:00:49.:00:52.

written to Barack Obama urging him to take back and deported for Romney

:00:53.:00:56.

claiming he was a US citizen. The party wall was born here, but lived

:00:57.:01:00.

in California for 30 years from the age of nine. `marriage to an

:01:01.:01:05.

American citizen, my daughter is an American citizen.

:01:06.:01:12.

Shutting up shop, the last Remploy factory, in Blackburn, has goes The

:01:13.:01:16.

Government there's its 19 disabled workers will be better off in

:01:17.:01:20.

mainstream industry. Two Merseyside in the departments

:01:21.:01:23.

are getting extra funding this winter. Southport Ormskirk is

:01:24.:01:27.

getting ?4 million, into University Hospital ?1.5 million.

:01:28.:01:32.

The Isle of Man has announced a 20`year ban on scallop dredging

:01:33.:01:35.

along another coast of the stretch `` off the coast, to protect stocks.

:01:36.:01:46.

My thanks to Paul Maynard, Dave Watts and Gina Dowding. Next week, I

:01:47.:01:52.

will be joined by Merseyside valise Commissioner Jane Kennedy as she and

:01:53.:01:55.

the other PCCs prepare to mark a year in office.

:01:56.:01:57.

confident we will deliver that. Thank you for coming, great to see

:01:58.:02:09.

you. Andrew, back to you. Labour 's relationship with Unite and other

:02:10.:02:17.

issues all to be discussed in the Week Ahead and we're joined now by

:02:18.:02:30.

the shadow business secretary Chuka Umunna. First I would like to get

:02:31.:02:33.

your reaction to the interview I did earlier with the General Secretary

:02:34.:02:36.

of the union Unite - Len McCluskey. Let's look at what he said. This is

:02:37.:02:39.

a trap being laid by Tory Central office. They are making all of the

:02:40.:02:44.

demands and the Daily Mail, the Sunday Times, are you telling me

:02:45.:02:48.

they are not the conservative mouthpiece in the media? They are

:02:49.:02:52.

laying traps for Ed Miliband and he should not fall into them. Though it

:02:53.:02:58.

is all a Tory plot. Len McCluskey denies a lot of the allegations put,

:02:59.:03:04.

but let me be clear in an industrial dispute, the use of aggressive or

:03:05.:03:10.

intimidatory tactics by either side is totally unacceptable. Do you

:03:11.:03:15.

think it is wrong for Unite to send its members to the homes of

:03:16.:03:19.

managers? I don't know what happened in that particular case, but I think

:03:20.:03:24.

you should keep people 's families out of these things and if you are

:03:25.:03:28.

doing something that can upset particularly children, that is a bad

:03:29.:03:33.

thing. I know he denied a number of things you put to him. We now know

:03:34.:03:39.

some of the content of Labour 's own report into what happened at Falkirk

:03:40.:03:44.

and they found all sorts of things - forgery, coercion, trickery and even

:03:45.:03:48.

that their own investigation was being thwarted by Unite. What should

:03:49.:04:00.

Labour do next? I have not read the report. We are told that the latest

:04:01.:04:10.

allegations that have been made is something that the police are

:04:11.:04:13.

looking into so that is not something I think would be

:04:14.:04:24.

appropriate for me to comment on. We learned Labour Party members in the

:04:25.:04:28.

Falkirk constituency have complained to the leader of the Scottish party

:04:29.:04:33.

about a lack of action by the Labour Party on what happened in Falkirk. I

:04:34.:04:43.

am not part of the Scottish party and that is news to me. But the

:04:44.:04:47.

police have indicated they are looking at the new information that

:04:48.:04:51.

has come to light. It is a bit like the 1980s and there was an

:04:52.:04:54.

electrifying moment when Neil Kinnock took on the militant

:04:55.:04:59.

tendency in Bournemouth in 1985 Ed Miliband has sort of tried to take

:05:00.:05:05.

on the Unite union, but it has not worked. Does then not need to be an

:05:06.:05:12.

electrifying moment for Ed Miliband? Your own paper has praised him for

:05:13.:05:16.

seeking to address the issues we have in politics and the

:05:17.:05:20.

disconnection from people. In many respects the situation in Falkirk

:05:21.:05:26.

categorises the process of further ongoing change where we are trying

:05:27.:05:30.

to establish a better relationship with individual trade union members.

:05:31.:05:37.

In parts of my constituency, some of the most deprived parts, we had

:05:38.:05:40.

people queueing round the block to vote. I do not think the issue is

:05:41.:05:46.

that people are not political, but they have never felt so far from

:05:47.:05:51.

party politics as they do now and that is why Ed Miliband announced

:05:52.:05:55.

this big chains about how we do things in the Labour Party, so we

:05:56.:06:00.

change structures in the Labour Party that were set up in the 2 th

:06:01.:06:05.

century. The reform of the way in which we connect and our

:06:06.:06:10.

relationship with the union puts us in a good position because we have

:06:11.:06:14.

this relationship between the 3 million working people who ensure

:06:15.:06:25.

our public services function. At Grangemouth INEOS stood up to

:06:26.:06:29.

unite. At Grangemouth and Falkirk Labour rolled over to the Unite

:06:30.:06:35.

union. I do not agree with that I'd just explained the reason. I do not

:06:36.:06:43.

think it is fair to ask people to give evidence in an enquiry on the

:06:44.:06:49.

basis of the report will be confidential and then to publish it

:06:50.:06:55.

after. But if somebody is trying to take over a Labour constituency to

:06:56.:07:00.

send an MP of their choice to our Parliament, that should not be

:07:01.:07:06.

secret, that should be public. Ed Miliband acted very decisively. That

:07:07.:07:12.

constituency party is still in special measures as I understand it.

:07:13.:07:17.

This idea that somehow the Unite union runs the Labour Party, they do

:07:18.:07:24.

not. The special measures mean according to Eric Joyce, that an

:07:25.:07:30.

ally of Stevie Deans is chairing the meeting. I am interested in the Tory

:07:31.:07:37.

suggestion that they would offer free Tory party membership to union

:07:38.:07:41.

members. I then moving onto your turf? We do not know exactly all the

:07:42.:07:50.

facts and the truth of the allegations that have been made On

:07:51.:07:59.

your point I think it is healthy the Conservatives are looking to recruit

:08:00.:08:04.

trade union members. A lot of their rhetoric is very negative in respect

:08:05.:08:11.

of trade unions. If you look at Unison a third of the members vote

:08:12.:08:18.

Conservative. In Unite union some of their members vote Tory. I think

:08:19.:08:22.

trade unions have a lot to bring to our country. It is one of the things

:08:23.:08:28.

many up and down the country will find very frustrating, a lot of the

:08:29.:08:33.

good work that unions do if it gets tarnished with all the negative

:08:34.:08:37.

stuff you see... Unite are working in partnership with GM and the

:08:38.:08:43.

senior management in Ellesmere Port and the government ensured that we

:08:44.:08:48.

kept that plant open. That gets overlooked by all of this. Do you

:08:49.:08:56.

not think the bolshie behaviour from unions are motivated not by

:08:57.:09:01.

strength, but by weakness. Unite know they cannot paralyse the

:09:02.:09:04.

country in the way their forebears used to be able to do. Their

:09:05.:09:10.

penetration rates in the private sector is 11%. The union movement is

:09:11.:09:15.

weaker than it was before I was born. Some of that truck killers and

:09:16.:09:20.

bad behaviour either death spasms of their movement rather than something

:09:21.:09:25.

that is motivated by the fact they can't paralyse the country. You have

:09:26.:09:34.

two increase the membership. But there is an issue about the public

:09:35.:09:39.

perception of trade unions. It is right they should be a voice of

:09:40.:09:43.

protest and anger and stand up for their members when it is necessary.

:09:44.:09:49.

But people join unions for their aspiration. The unions do a lot so

:09:50.:09:55.

that people can move up in their workplace. That profile needs to

:09:56.:09:59.

come across as strongly as the protest part. I want to move on to

:10:00.:10:06.

business. The head of the CBI has said that Labour's pro-enterprise

:10:07.:10:14.

credentials have suffered a setback. He said that in relation to Ed

:10:15.:10:19.

Miliband's speech. I was on the radio earlier. If you look at the

:10:20.:10:23.

things in the speech, some of that was going to be uncomfortable for

:10:24.:10:28.

some of the countries and they tend to be companies represented by the

:10:29.:10:32.

CBI, like energy companies, like land developers, a lot of the big

:10:33.:10:38.

business lose out from is not doing the corporate tax cut. The energy

:10:39.:10:46.

freeze is going to help over 2. million businesses that have been

:10:47.:10:50.

hit by high energy bills. The business community has said we had

:10:51.:10:55.

to bring the public sector finances back into balance. That is why we

:10:56.:11:00.

decided to switch the money being used to reduce corporation tax and

:11:01.:11:06.

use that to help a much greater variety of businesses by doing a

:11:07.:11:11.

business rate cut. It is all pro enterprise. They also seem to be

:11:12.:11:19.

critical of your new idea of a living wage. They are not critical.

:11:20.:11:25.

It would not be compulsory, but there would be a tax credit if they

:11:26.:11:32.

paid it. It is good for business because if people are earning more

:11:33.:11:37.

than they are more productive. It is good for the employee and good for

:11:38.:11:42.

us as well because it means we are not having to subsidise people to be

:11:43.:11:50.

paid to the extent we have with tax credits and benefits. Everybody

:11:51.:11:57.

benefits from this. We all know after 2009 we need to have bold

:11:58.:12:04.

change. Does Labour paid a living wage? We have got over 20 of our

:12:05.:12:12.

councils signed up to doing so and we have made commitments in respect

:12:13.:12:17.

to Whitehall. Does the Labour Party pay it? I believe so. Would it not

:12:18.:12:27.

be worth checking? Do you get a living wage? Yes, of course I do. I

:12:28.:12:40.

understand we paid a living wage. What does it feel like for Tristram

:12:41.:12:45.

Hunt who has taken over your mantle as Labour's next leader? Is that a

:12:46.:12:53.

relieved or are you angry? He is one of my best friends and at the end of

:12:54.:12:58.

the day if we got obsessed with this soap opera stuff we would never get

:12:59.:13:02.

anything done and we are working together to make sure we have got

:13:03.:13:11.

the right skills in our workforce. That is all for today. The daily

:13:12.:13:17.

politics is on all week. I will be here again next weekend at 12:2 pm

:13:18.:13:26.

after the Remembrance Day service at the Cenotaph. Remember if it is

:13:27.:13:28.

Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics. Planet Earth - it's unique.

:13:29.:13:57.

It has life. To understand why, we're going to

:13:58.:14:02.

build a planet...up there. There were the objects that were

:14:03.:14:10.

making the Earth. We're now weightless.

:14:11.:14:13.

That's how our planet started. Your arms are a little bit long

:14:14.:14:15.

Is that as small as they go? This is like every shopping trip

:14:16.:14:18.

I've ever been on.

:14:19.:14:23.

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