Browse content similar to 03/11/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. It began as | :00:38. | :00:51. | |
Plebgate, now it is Plodgate. The evidence of three police officers to | :00:52. | :00:55. | |
MPs is branded a great work of fiction. They tried to intimidate | :00:56. | :01:00. | |
the Grangemouth bosses, but in the end it was the union that | :01:01. | :01:05. | |
capitulated. I will ask Len McCluskey about Unite union's strong | :01:06. | :01:10. | |
arm tactics at Grangemouth and Falkirk. They preach women should be | :01:11. | :01:15. | |
sidelined and confined to the private sphere. They argued they | :01:16. | :01:16. | |
should be covered up. And in the North West: No planes, | :01:17. | :01:25. | |
but trains and automobiles. Can HS2 and road`building transform the | :01:26. | :01:26. | |
region's economy? authority is investigating -- | :01:27. | :01:35. | |
investing thousands of pounds in a GPS tracking system to keep tabs on | :01:36. | :01:41. | |
its staff. With me as always, the best and the | :01:42. | :01:48. | |
brightest political panel, Helen Lewis, Janan Ganesh and Nick Watt | :01:49. | :01:52. | |
who will be tweeting their humiliating climb-down is what they | :01:53. | :01:55. | |
got wrong last week in the programme. If this can happen it to | :01:56. | :02:02. | |
a Cabinet minister, what hope is there for anyone else? Thus the Home | :02:03. | :02:06. | |
Affairs Select Committee concluded what many already thought about the | :02:07. | :02:10. | |
treatment of Andrew Mitchell by three self-styled PC plebs. They met | :02:11. | :02:14. | |
him to clear the air over what did or did not happen when he was | :02:15. | :02:19. | |
prevented from ramming his bike through the Downing Street gates. | :02:20. | :02:23. | |
But the officers gave the media and inaccurate account of that meeting. | :02:24. | :02:30. | |
Two of them are even accused of misleading the Commons committee. | :02:31. | :02:33. | |
The Independent Police Complaints Commission will now reopen there | :02:34. | :02:37. | |
enquiry. This is not a story about Andrew Mitchell, it is about the | :02:38. | :02:44. | |
police. Keith Vaz is often in high dudgeon and this is the highest dad | :02:45. | :02:48. | |
and I have seen him in for some time. They could be held for | :02:49. | :02:52. | |
contempt of Parliament and technically they could be sent to | :02:53. | :02:57. | |
prison. It has blown up into an enormous story. I do not know what | :02:58. | :03:01. | |
is worse, the police trying to stitch up a Cabinet member and try | :03:02. | :03:06. | |
to mislead the media or the incompetence they have done it from | :03:07. | :03:14. | |
day one. That is quite good. I would sleep more soundly at night if I | :03:15. | :03:19. | |
knew the pleas were good at this. It is the incompetence that shocks me. | :03:20. | :03:25. | |
And this is just a sideshow. We are still waiting on the main report as | :03:26. | :03:28. | |
to what exactly happened outside Downing Street gates. But that not | :03:29. | :03:34. | |
will be good for the police either. The file has gone from the | :03:35. | :03:39. | |
Metropolitan police to the CPS, so we are limited about what we can | :03:40. | :03:43. | |
say. This is about the police Federation. They were set up under | :03:44. | :03:49. | |
statute in 1990 as a deal in which a police would not go on strike. This | :03:50. | :03:54. | |
is a political campaign to get a Cabinet minister out and the legacy | :03:55. | :03:58. | |
of this is the police Federation will have to be reformed. We will | :03:59. | :04:05. | |
keep an eye on it. They were Ed Miliband's union backers, they swung | :04:06. | :04:10. | |
the Labour leadership for him in 2010. Now the Unite union looks like | :04:11. | :04:15. | |
his biggest headache. The Sunday Times has seen extracts of the | :04:16. | :04:19. | |
report into the alleged vote rigging to select a Labour candidate in | :04:20. | :04:26. | |
Falkirk. There was evidence of coercion and Gregory as well as | :04:27. | :04:29. | |
deliberate attempt to frustrate the enquiry. We will be speaking to Len | :04:30. | :04:35. | |
McCluskey, the Unite union's General Secretary, in a moment. First out | :04:36. | :04:41. | |
the saga began an almost ended up with the loss of 800 jobs at a | :04:42. | :04:46. | |
petrochemical plant in Grangemouth. Unite were key players in the | :04:47. | :04:50. | |
Grangemouth dispute and the union headed by Len McCluskey has come | :04:51. | :04:54. | |
under fire for its intimidator Tariq tactics. In one instance | :04:55. | :04:59. | |
demonstrators complete with an inflatable rat picketed the home of | :05:00. | :05:05. | |
a INEOS director. The police were called. It was part of a strategy | :05:06. | :05:11. | |
the union called leverage. But turning up at people's houses seems | :05:12. | :05:16. | |
to represent an escalation. At the centre of the rout was Steve in | :05:17. | :05:22. | |
deals -- Stephen Denes. INEOS launched an investigation into him | :05:23. | :05:27. | |
as he was suspected of using company time to engineer the selection of | :05:28. | :05:32. | |
labour's candidate in Falkirk. That candidate was Karie Murphy, a friend | :05:33. | :05:38. | |
of Len McCluskey. Stevie Deans resigned last week and denies any | :05:39. | :05:45. | |
wrongdoing, but it capped a dramatic climb-down by Unite union. Len | :05:46. | :05:54. | |
McCluskey joins me now. Thanks to the Sunday Times we now know what is | :05:55. | :06:00. | |
in this labour report on the Falkirk vote rigging. Forgery, coercion | :06:01. | :06:08. | |
trickery, manipulation. You must be ashamed of how Unite union behaved | :06:09. | :06:14. | |
in Falkirk. The Sunday Times article is lazy journalism. There is nothing | :06:15. | :06:20. | |
new in the article. This was all dealt with by the Labour Party in | :06:21. | :06:24. | |
the summer. We rejected those allegations then and we said we had | :06:25. | :06:29. | |
done nothing wrong and both the Labour Party and the police in | :06:30. | :06:33. | |
Scotland indicated there had been no wrongdoing. The report itself says | :06:34. | :06:39. | |
you were trying to thwart the investigation. First you tried to | :06:40. | :06:44. | |
fix the selection of a candidate to get your woman in and then you | :06:45. | :06:48. | |
thwarted the investigation into the dirty deeds. The reality is the | :06:49. | :06:54. | |
Labour Party report was deeply flawed. The Labour Party then | :06:55. | :07:01. | |
instructed a solicitor, a lawyer, to do an in-depth investigation and | :07:02. | :07:05. | |
during that investigation they got to the bottom of what had happened | :07:06. | :07:09. | |
and they decided there was no wrongdoing whatsoever. At the time I | :07:10. | :07:14. | |
was so confident we had done nothing, I called for an independent | :07:15. | :07:20. | |
enquiry. They were forced to conclude there was no wrongdoing | :07:21. | :07:24. | |
because the people who originally complained changed their evidence | :07:25. | :07:29. | |
and we now know they did so because Unite union officials helped them to | :07:30. | :07:34. | |
rewrite their retraction and Stevie Deans approved it. That is not true. | :07:35. | :07:40. | |
We have had 1000 e-mails thrown into the public arena and what is that | :07:41. | :07:48. | |
all about? Who is leaking this? They showed the Unite union was rewriting | :07:49. | :07:55. | |
the retractions. This interview would go a lot better if you are | :07:56. | :07:59. | |
allowed me to finish the question that you asked. These e-mails were | :08:00. | :08:07. | |
put into the public arena by the PR company from INEOS. Why are they | :08:08. | :08:11. | |
doing this? The truth of the matter is that all of the investigations | :08:12. | :08:17. | |
that took place demonstrate there was nothing to answer. This idea | :08:18. | :08:22. | |
that the Unite union has rewritten and the evidence from the families | :08:23. | :08:27. | |
has been withdrawn, the families are a part of Stevie deems' family. They | :08:28. | :08:36. | |
clarified the position. Do you deny that union officials were involved | :08:37. | :08:41. | |
in the retractions? I deny it completely. This is important. | :08:42. | :08:47. | |
Independent solicitors to witness statements from the family and they | :08:48. | :08:51. | |
are the ones that were influencing the Labour Party with the position | :08:52. | :08:59. | |
is clarified and there is no case to answer. Do you deny Stevie deems saw | :09:00. | :09:07. | |
their retractions? It is his family. So you do not deny it? It is his | :09:08. | :09:15. | |
family. This is an ordinary, decent family who were faced with the full | :09:16. | :09:19. | |
weight of the pleas, a forensic solicitor. Of course they spoke to | :09:20. | :09:26. | |
Stevie Deans. This whole thing is a cesspit. Does it not need an | :09:27. | :09:33. | |
independent investigation? This is a trap being laid by Tory Central | :09:34. | :09:37. | |
office. They are making all the demands. The media, the Daily Mail, | :09:38. | :09:44. | |
the Sunday Times, the Conservative mouthpiece, they are laying tracks | :09:45. | :09:48. | |
for Ed Miliband and Ed Miliband should not fall into them. Since | :09:49. | :09:56. | |
when did it become part of an industrial dispute to send mobs to | :09:57. | :10:05. | |
the home of company families. This is a legitimate form of protest and | :10:06. | :10:13. | |
it is a silent protest. We believe if faceless directors are making | :10:14. | :10:16. | |
decisions that cripple communities, they cannot expect to simply drift | :10:17. | :10:23. | |
back to their own leafy suburbia and not be countable. This is silent | :10:24. | :10:32. | |
protest. It is lawful. It may be silent in Grangemouth, but it was | :10:33. | :10:36. | |
not silent elsewhere. You went with a giant rat, loud-hailers telling | :10:37. | :10:42. | |
everybody the neighbour was evil. No, we did not. You had | :10:43. | :10:51. | |
loud-hailers, you even encouraged passing children in Grangemouth to | :10:52. | :10:58. | |
join in. That is nonsense. Look at the rat. The reality is the | :10:59. | :11:05. | |
Grangemouth community was going to be decimated, Grangemouth was going | :11:06. | :11:11. | |
to become a ghost town. I reject totally this idea there were | :11:12. | :11:15. | |
loud-hailers and children involved. That is a lie perpetrated by the | :11:16. | :11:22. | |
Daily Mail. But you have used these tactics in other disputes. We have | :11:23. | :11:28. | |
used the tactics in other disputes, but we have not used loud-hailers at | :11:29. | :11:33. | |
people's homes. Because the labour laws are so restrictive we have to | :11:34. | :11:39. | |
look at every available means that we can protest. It is an outrage, an | :11:40. | :11:46. | |
absolute outrage, that this is happening to British workers in the | :11:47. | :11:49. | |
21st-century. It could not happen elsewhere. Is not intimidation the | :11:50. | :11:57. | |
wider hallmark of your union? You were quoted as saying to do whatever | :11:58. | :12:01. | |
it takes during your attempts to take over the Labour Falkirk | :12:02. | :12:10. | |
constituency. You were instructing to dig out the nasty stuff on your | :12:11. | :12:19. | |
opponents. That is not true. Let's see these e-mails? This is a con | :12:20. | :12:25. | |
trick. Nobody is looking to dig out... This is the words of your | :12:26. | :12:32. | |
legal services advisor. Unite has tried to instigate a revival of | :12:33. | :12:37. | |
trade union values within the Labour Party. That is what Ed Miliband | :12:38. | :12:42. | |
wanted us to do. As soon as we started to be in any way | :12:43. | :12:46. | |
ineffective, there were screams and howls of derision. When the company | :12:47. | :12:52. | |
started to investigate Stevie Deans, your friend, your campaign manager, | :12:53. | :12:57. | |
that he was using company time to moonlight on the job, you called | :12:58. | :13:03. | |
INEOS and said unless you stop the investigation we will bring | :13:04. | :13:08. | |
Grangemouth to a standstill. I never said that at all. You brought it to | :13:09. | :13:15. | |
a standstill. We never brought it to a standstill, the company did. Who | :13:16. | :13:23. | |
says that I said that we would bring it to a standstill? You have read it | :13:24. | :13:28. | |
in the newspapers. You should not believe everything. I did not make | :13:29. | :13:34. | |
that threat to the management. You carried the threat out. You | :13:35. | :13:37. | |
instigated an overtime ban and a work to rule. And that is what | :13:38. | :13:44. | |
Grangemouth to a standstill because the company decided to close the | :13:45. | :13:50. | |
petrochemical site down. Because Stevie Deans was suspended due | :13:51. | :13:56. | |
introduced industrial action? Our members in Grangemouth felt he was | :13:57. | :14:03. | |
being unfairly treated. In the end you're grandstanding almost cost | :14:04. | :14:06. | |
Scotland is most important industrial facility. The day was | :14:07. | :14:13. | |
saved by your total capitulation. Grandstanding, capitulation and | :14:14. | :14:17. | |
humiliation are grand phrases. There is nothing about capitulation. Len | :14:18. | :14:25. | |
McCluskey did not wake up one day and decide to have a dispute with | :14:26. | :14:32. | |
INEOS. The workers in that factory democratically elect their shop | :14:33. | :14:36. | |
stewards to represent them and to express to management their concerns | :14:37. | :14:40. | |
and their views. That is what happened with INEOS. Jack Straw has | :14:41. | :14:48. | |
condemned your union's handling of Grangemouth as a catastrophe. Have | :14:49. | :14:53. | |
you considered your position? Jack Straw and others in the Labour | :14:54. | :14:58. | |
Party, you have to ask them what their agenda is. I am not interested | :14:59. | :15:03. | |
in what he says. The truth of the matter is we responded to the | :15:04. | :15:08. | |
requirements and needs of our members. At a mass meeting last | :15:09. | :15:15. | |
Monday 100% supported their shop stewards and their union. We will | :15:16. | :15:19. | |
continue to stand shoulder to shoulder with our members when they | :15:20. | :15:24. | |
are faced with difficult situations. You have lost all the union rights. | :15:25. | :15:30. | |
You have had to agree to a no strike rule, you have lost pension rights. | :15:31. | :15:37. | |
We have not lost rights at all, we are still working with the company | :15:38. | :15:42. | |
to implement its survival plan. The Prime Minister is always attacking | :15:43. | :15:47. | |
unions and just lately he has taken to praising the automotive | :15:48. | :15:52. | |
industry. Jaguar Land Rover, Foxhall, BMW at Cowley, they are all | :15:53. | :15:59. | |
Unite union members were the shop stewards are engaged positively to | :16:00. | :16:02. | |
implement survival plans and to make a success for the company. That is | :16:03. | :16:08. | |
what we do, but by the same token we stand shoulder to shoulder with our | :16:09. | :16:12. | |
members who are in struggle and we will always do that and we will not | :16:13. | :16:18. | |
be cowed by media attacks on us Is your leadership not proving to be as | :16:19. | :16:23. | |
disastrous for the members as Arthur Scargill was for the NUM? My | :16:24. | :16:36. | |
membership is growing. I am accountable to my members, two are | :16:37. | :16:41. | |
executive, and the one thing they will know is that when they want me | :16:42. | :16:44. | |
standing shoulder to shoulder with them when they have a problem, I | :16:45. | :16:50. | |
will be there, despite the disgraceful attacks launched on us | :16:51. | :17:04. | |
by the media. "A country ready to welcome your | :17:05. | :17:06. | |
investment which values your friendship and will never exclude | :17:07. | :17:09. | |
anyone because of their race, religion, colour or creed." The | :17:10. | :17:12. | |
words of the Prime minister at the World Islamic Economic Forum which | :17:13. | :17:14. | |
was hosted for the first time in London this week. The PM's warm | :17:15. | :17:18. | |
words are sure to be welcomed by British Muslims who have endured a | :17:19. | :17:21. | |
spate of negative headlines. There's been the controversy over the | :17:22. | :17:23. | |
wearing of the veil, attitudes to women, and the radicalisation of | :17:24. | :17:26. | |
some young British Muslims. In a moment I'll be talking to the | :17:27. | :17:29. | |
Secretary General of the Muslim Council of Britain, Farooq Murad. | :17:30. | :17:39. | |
First - here's Giles Dilnot. The call to Friday prayers at the east | :17:40. | :17:43. | |
London Mosque which has strong links with the Muslim Council of Britain, | :17:44. | :17:48. | |
one of the more vocal groups amongst British Muslims. Despite the fact it | :17:49. | :17:53. | |
frequently happens, it is neither helpful nor accurate to describe the | :17:54. | :17:58. | |
British Muslim community. There are so many different sects, | :17:59. | :18:01. | |
traditions, cultures and nationalities, it is more accurate | :18:02. | :18:06. | |
to describe the British Muslim communities, but there is one | :18:07. | :18:10. | |
question being put to them - are they doing enough internally to | :18:11. | :18:19. | |
address some challenging issues Are they willing to confront | :18:20. | :18:23. | |
radicalisation, attitudes to non-muslins, two women, and cases of | :18:24. | :18:27. | |
sexual exploitation in a meaningful way? A number of them say no, not | :18:28. | :18:37. | |
nearly enough. This former jihad de has spent ten years telling young | :18:38. | :18:43. | |
Muslim teenagers how they can reject extremist radicalisation, using | :18:44. | :18:47. | |
Outward Bound courses and community work, but he and others doing this | :18:48. | :18:54. | |
work thing -- think some elders are failing the youngsters. This has | :18:55. | :19:02. | |
been going on for decades, one figures -- thing is said in public | :19:03. | :19:11. | |
to please people but in private something very different is being | :19:12. | :19:15. | |
said and the messages are being confused. Some of the young people, | :19:16. | :19:21. | |
it pushes them further into a space where they are vulnerable for | :19:22. | :19:29. | |
radical recruiters. For many Muslim youngsters, life is about living 1's | :19:30. | :19:34. | |
faith within an increasingly secular society, a struggle not helped if | :19:35. | :19:39. | |
rigid interpretations of the Koran are being preached, say some | :19:40. | :19:47. | |
sectors. Some practices often don't make sense in 21st-century Britain, | :19:48. | :19:54. | |
and you are perhaps creating obstacles if you stick to those and | :19:55. | :19:58. | |
it is perhaps better to let go of those cultural problems, especially | :19:59. | :20:04. | |
when they need to clear injustices like forced marriage, reticence to | :20:05. | :20:09. | |
talk about grooming for example or discrimination against women. There | :20:10. | :20:13. | |
is a long list but I am very clear that in fact the bad Muslim is the | :20:14. | :20:19. | |
one who sticks to unflinching, narrow dogmatic fundamentalist | :20:20. | :20:25. | |
perception of religion. One issue often focused on is the wearing of | :20:26. | :20:36. | |
minicab. Polling suggests 80% of Britons would favour a ban in public | :20:37. | :20:51. | |
places. -- the niqab. Many people don't seem to recognise the legacy | :20:52. | :21:03. | |
of the niqab. Many people preach that women should be sidelined and | :21:04. | :21:07. | |
that they are sexual objects that should be covered up and the | :21:08. | :21:10. | |
preservation of morality falls on their shoulders. The Muslim Council | :21:11. | :21:15. | |
of Britain recently got praise for holding a conference on combating | :21:16. | :21:19. | |
sexual exploitation. In the wake of abuse cases that had involved | :21:20. | :21:25. | |
predominantly Pakistani men. For one man who has followed the story for | :21:26. | :21:32. | |
some years, the Muslim Council of Britain needs to do much more. We | :21:33. | :21:38. | |
need to get along together and if things like attitudes towards the | :21:39. | :21:45. | |
normal slim girl in stark contrast to the expression of honour and | :21:46. | :21:49. | |
chastity of the Muslim girl, your sister or daughter, are such that | :21:50. | :21:57. | |
actions that would be an fought off with a slim girl becomes permissible | :21:58. | :22:02. | |
with a white girl, then we are all in trouble. To some, attitudes to | :22:03. | :22:08. | |
women are not limited to sexual interactions at the very structures | :22:09. | :22:13. | |
of life in Muslim communities and indeed the Muslim Council of Britain | :22:14. | :22:17. | |
itself. I would like to ask the Muslim Council of Britain what they | :22:18. | :22:26. | |
are doing about the fact that very few mosques give voices to | :22:27. | :22:34. | |
are doing about the fact that very the fact that someone women are | :22:35. | :22:34. | |
experiencing female genital mutilation and forced marriages | :22:35. | :22:39. | |
what about the women who are getting married and their marriages are not | :22:40. | :22:42. | |
being registered and they are being left homeless and denied maintenance | :22:43. | :22:47. | |
rights, what about the fact there are sharia rights that have been | :22:48. | :22:50. | |
found to be discriminating against women, and the fact there are men in | :22:51. | :22:55. | |
this country who continue to hold misogynistic views about women, what | :22:56. | :23:01. | |
are you doing? The occasional press release will not solve this problem | :23:02. | :23:07. | |
of a deeply patriarchal community. That all of these issues can be | :23:08. | :23:11. | |
exploited to the point of Islam phobia is not doubted, but many | :23:12. | :23:16. | |
Muslims feel that unless the communities do tackle this openly, a | :23:17. | :23:21. | |
big cultural gap will exist between the two. | :23:22. | :23:28. | |
And the Secretary General of the Muslim Council of Britain, Farooq | :23:29. | :23:31. | |
Murad, joins me now. One visible sign that sets muslins aside is the | :23:32. | :23:40. | |
veils that cover women's faces. Do you think it makes them impossible | :23:41. | :23:47. | |
to be part of mainstream society? The niqab is not an obligatory | :23:48. | :23:55. | |
requirement. But do you accept that those who wear it are cutting | :23:56. | :23:57. | |
themselves off from mainstream society? Some people do, and whilst | :23:58. | :24:12. | |
wearing niqab, some of them are working in various walks of life | :24:13. | :24:14. | |
successfully and it is seen as a faith requirement, but it is a red | :24:15. | :24:18. | |
herring in the sense that it applies to such a small number of Muslim | :24:19. | :24:25. | |
girls. For many Muslim preachers, isn't separation precisely the point | :24:26. | :24:35. | |
of the niqab? Certainly not, if you look at the Muslim women in the | :24:36. | :24:39. | |
public sphere, we have many very successful women. But not the ones | :24:40. | :24:48. | |
who are veiled. Not in the public arena as such, but the veil is a | :24:49. | :24:55. | |
practice which is practised by a very small number. Do you favour | :24:56. | :25:02. | |
it? I personally think it is not a requirement. But do you think women | :25:03. | :25:08. | |
should wear the veil? I think it is wrong to force women to wear the | :25:09. | :25:13. | |
veil. I asked if in your opinion women should wear the veil? It is | :25:14. | :25:18. | |
important not to force women to wear the veil. Should they of their free | :25:19. | :25:25. | |
choice where the veil? A lot of individuals do things out of their | :25:26. | :25:28. | |
free choice which I do not approve of, I don't think it is conducive it | :25:29. | :25:33. | |
helps their cause, but I do not have the right to take their choice away | :25:34. | :25:39. | |
from them. I am still unsure if you think it is a good thing or a bad | :25:40. | :25:44. | |
thing. Are not many Muslim women in this country being forced by Muslim | :25:45. | :25:48. | |
preachers and often their male relations who want to keep Muslim | :25:49. | :25:54. | |
women their place? As I said, it is wrong for anyone to force Muslim | :25:55. | :26:01. | |
women. But how would we ever know in a family if a woman was being | :26:02. | :26:08. | |
forced? Exactly, we don't know what is going on in people 's homes and | :26:09. | :26:13. | |
what pressure is being applied. I want you to look at this picture, | :26:14. | :26:18. | |
very popular on Islamic websites, and it shows the women who is | :26:19. | :26:23. | |
wearing the niqab having a straight route to heaven, and the other | :26:24. | :26:30. | |
Muslim woman dressed in western gear condemned to hell. Do you consider | :26:31. | :26:33. | |
that a proper message for Muslim women? Not at all, I don't. So any | :26:34. | :26:43. | |
Islamic websites in Britain... The Muslim Council of Britain is an | :26:44. | :26:47. | |
organisation of five affiliates from across the country and this is not | :26:48. | :26:53. | |
coming from any of them. As I said, those minority views propagated by | :26:54. | :26:59. | |
individuals should not be used to represent Muslim community. So that | :27:00. | :27:03. | |
would not have the support of the Muslim Council of Britain? It would | :27:04. | :27:09. | |
not have the support. What about the Muslim free school that requires | :27:10. | :27:21. | |
children as young as 11 to wear a black veil outside of school? Do you | :27:22. | :27:28. | |
agree with that? I am not sure exactly what the policy is... I have | :27:29. | :27:37. | |
just told you, do you agree that girls as young as 11 should wear a | :27:38. | :27:46. | |
black burka outside of school? I don't think it should be imposed on | :27:47. | :27:52. | |
anybody. But this is the desired dress School of the Muslim females. | :27:53. | :28:03. | |
I am asking for your view. I said it at the beginning that I do not think | :28:04. | :28:09. | |
it should be imposed. Would you send your daughter to a school that would | :28:10. | :28:15. | |
wear a black burka at the age of 11? Would you? No. It seems that some | :28:16. | :28:26. | |
muslins are determined to segregate young Muslim girls right from the | :28:27. | :28:33. | |
start to very early from society. It is not their segregation as such, I | :28:34. | :28:37. | |
would say that there are faith schools, if you look at an Islamic | :28:38. | :28:46. | |
girls school in Blackburn in a traditional setting, it has come the | :28:47. | :28:51. | |
top of the league table this year in the secondary school league tables. | :28:52. | :28:59. | |
But it doesn't make 11-year-olds wear black burkas. Many of those | :29:00. | :29:03. | |
girls go on to have a successful career. Not wearing black burkas. I | :29:04. | :29:12. | |
am sure there are examples of women who do have successful careers. | :29:13. | :29:17. | |
There is a very conservative movement from the continent on | :29:18. | :29:30. | |
Islam, and the issue supposedly based on Islamic law on their | :29:31. | :29:34. | |
website. Here is one of their recent judgements. The female is encouraged | :29:35. | :29:41. | |
to remain within the confines of her home as much as possible, she should | :29:42. | :29:45. | |
not come out of the home without need and necessity. What do you | :29:46. | :29:50. | |
think of that? We need to say the whole context of that quote. They | :29:51. | :29:55. | |
are saying they should stay at home as much as possible, do you agree | :29:56. | :30:05. | |
with that? I see many Muslim women who are walking about... But this is | :30:06. | :30:13. | |
what the mosque is recommending women should do. The practice is | :30:14. | :30:18. | |
quite the contrary. Let me show you another one. Another Fatwa. Do you | :30:19. | :30:40. | |
agree with that? These have been picked out from material dating back | :30:41. | :30:44. | |
to different cultural settings and in practice they are not applied. | :30:45. | :30:50. | |
This is advice being given as we speak. This is not being practised. | :30:51. | :30:57. | |
Do you agree with it? No, not at all. These are from the DL Monday | :30:58. | :31:04. | |
mosques, how come 72 of these mosques are affiliated to your | :31:05. | :31:16. | |
counsel? There may be publications from one of their scholars, but they | :31:17. | :31:26. | |
have been written in countries abroad and translated. This is | :31:27. | :31:31. | |
advice being given to young women now. They are affiliated to the | :31:32. | :31:37. | |
Muslim Council of Britain. Do you ever speak to them about that? The | :31:38. | :31:43. | |
Muslim Council is a very broad organisation. We are working on lots | :31:44. | :31:50. | |
of common issues to create a community which positively | :31:51. | :31:58. | |
integrates. Did you ever speak to them to say this is not appropriate | :31:59. | :32:05. | |
for British Muslims? There may be certain ad buys and publications | :32:06. | :32:08. | |
available, but people make their choices. So it is OK for your | :32:09. | :32:17. | |
organisation to issue things like that? Many of these things will fall | :32:18. | :32:26. | |
under scrutiny and we need to create that. Why do only 26% of British | :32:27. | :32:36. | |
mosques have facilities for women? If you go back to the requirement of | :32:37. | :32:42. | |
prayer, it was not obligatory for women to come to the masks to | :32:43. | :32:48. | |
prayer. When a poorer community began putting up mosques at the very | :32:49. | :32:54. | |
beginning in terraced houses... Did you have a policy to encourage them? | :32:55. | :33:02. | |
Is it on your website? It is in our practices that 20% of the council | :33:03. | :33:12. | |
have to be female. Coming out of this movement there is a conscious | :33:13. | :33:17. | |
stream of superiority between Muslims and non-Muslims. Look at | :33:18. | :33:24. | |
this quote. He is a well-known picture in this country. | :33:25. | :33:41. | |
That is what he wants to stop. I disagree with that. We believe we | :33:42. | :33:53. | |
live in this society and Muslims in any society of the world, and they | :33:54. | :33:58. | |
have historically lived as minorities in many countries... You | :33:59. | :34:04. | |
would this associate yourself from that? Why do you allow people like | :34:05. | :34:11. | |
that to be affiliated to you? The requirement is for any organisation | :34:12. | :34:18. | |
to be affiliated is that they are bound by the Charity commission s | :34:19. | :34:22. | |
rules and regulations. We only accept those who are under the law | :34:23. | :34:29. | |
of this country. This is a matter of taste. Let me move on to a bigger | :34:30. | :34:38. | |
issue. In 2009 you signed the Istanbul dash-mac the Istanbul | :34:39. | :34:45. | |
declaration was signed. Do you still support it? No, we never signed it | :34:46. | :34:56. | |
or supported it. One of your leading lights signed it. In the media | :34:57. | :35:05. | |
mainstream he defended his position. You have this associated yourself | :35:06. | :35:11. | |
from it? What is wrong with that? I am not sure about the declaration | :35:12. | :35:19. | |
because we disassociated ourselves. Before reading it? We did not sign | :35:20. | :35:28. | |
it. You have not read it? I do not know all the aspects of the | :35:29. | :35:34. | |
declaration, but at the time in the national newspapers and media there | :35:35. | :35:44. | |
was a discussion and a debate and it was highlighted that that was not | :35:45. | :35:51. | |
what was meant by the declaration. When did you decide so is the | :35:52. | :35:55. | |
yourself from the declaration? From day one. We never signed it. The | :35:56. | :36:05. | |
East London Mosque which you are personally closely associated with | :36:06. | :36:08. | |
is the venue for a number of extremist speakers, who espoused | :36:09. | :36:20. | |
extremist positions. In 2009 the mosque posted a video and | :36:21. | :36:24. | |
presentation by somebody described by the UN Security Council as an | :36:25. | :36:30. | |
Al-Qaeda leader supporter. Another speaker described Christians and | :36:31. | :36:34. | |
Jews as Phil. You have had a jihad is supporter of the Taliban there. | :36:35. | :36:39. | |
Why do you do nothing to stop extremists like that at this mask | :36:40. | :36:47. | |
with which you are associated with? We do not have anything to do with | :36:48. | :36:52. | |
any rhetoric that condones or supported violence. We issue | :36:53. | :36:58. | |
guidelines and the mosque itself is a registered charity which has its | :36:59. | :37:03. | |
own rules and regulations, but it is a very large mosques and lots of | :37:04. | :37:07. | |
organisations book and come and told their gatherings. We rent out the | :37:08. | :37:13. | |
facilities. You were prepared to speak alongside a man who saluted | :37:14. | :37:25. | |
suicide bombers, and said 9/11 was a Zionist conspiracy. Why would you | :37:26. | :37:31. | |
share a platform like that? I did not share a platform like that. | :37:32. | :37:35. | |
Different organisations come and have conferences here. Why did you | :37:36. | :37:43. | |
agree? I did not agree with that. I completely reject that. When you add | :37:44. | :37:52. | |
all this up the attitude to women, the alliance with the most | :37:53. | :37:58. | |
fundamentalist Islamic mosques, the toleration of intolerant views, a | :37:59. | :38:02. | |
willingness for you to be counted among them, why should anybody of | :38:03. | :38:07. | |
goodwill, either a Muslim or a non-Muslim, regard the MCB as a good | :38:08. | :38:16. | |
force? It is an organisation which embraces different organisations | :38:17. | :38:23. | |
which are affiliated in the Muslim community. You have taken snippets | :38:24. | :38:27. | |
of certain individual views which are not the views of our affiliates. | :38:28. | :38:33. | |
It would be unfair to represent our view based on those which you have | :38:34. | :38:38. | |
highlighted in this programme. The work that we do is quite clear and | :38:39. | :38:46. | |
is on our website. They are all associated with you, but we will | :38:47. | :38:51. | |
have to leave it there. You are watching the Sunday Politics. Coming | :38:52. | :38:53. | |
up: I will be talking to joke Hello, I'm Arif Ansari. Coming up in | :38:54. | :39:10. | |
the North West... No planes, but trains and | :39:11. | :39:15. | |
automobiles, can High Speed Rail and road`building transform the | :39:16. | :39:17. | |
region's economy? Let's meet the three with tickets. Paul Maynard, | :39:18. | :39:23. | |
Conservative MP for Blackpool North and Cleveleys. Dave Watts, Labour MP | :39:24. | :39:28. | |
for St Helens North and chair of the Parliamentary Labour Party. Gina | :39:29. | :39:32. | |
Dowding, a Lancashire County Council and European Parliament a candidate | :39:33. | :39:38. | |
for the Green party. We start in Lancashire, where this week, bleeps | :39:39. | :39:43. | |
launched an investigation into possible financial irregularities at | :39:44. | :39:45. | |
the County Council. `` police launched. In April, the council | :39:46. | :39:51. | |
awarded One Connect, a joint venture between the council and Beattie a | :39:52. | :39:55. | |
?5 million contract to manage the council's vehicles. The council s | :39:56. | :40:01. | |
Chief Executive Phil Halsall was a director of One Connect. Six days | :40:02. | :40:05. | |
late, Conservative Geoff Driver lost his job as Council Leader following | :40:06. | :40:08. | |
the local elections, and the bow launched an enquiry. Mr Halsall was | :40:09. | :40:13. | |
suspended in August and two weeks ago left his job. Meanwhile, in | :40:14. | :40:18. | |
September, the council informed police about payments of more than | :40:19. | :40:22. | |
?500,000 to David McElhinney, who worked on secondment to BT | :40:23. | :40:26. | |
overseeing the One Connect deal and a similar one in Liverpool. The | :40:27. | :40:32. | |
police have confirmed exactly wish aspect they are looking into. `` | :40:33. | :40:38. | |
wished `` which aspect. Geoff Driver has been busy for an enquiry to get | :40:39. | :40:42. | |
the facts into the open. We were not able to get hold of David | :40:43. | :40:45. | |
McElhinney. Gina, you are a Lancashire County | :40:46. | :40:48. | |
Council. This must have been pretty destabilises. Difficult times for | :40:49. | :40:55. | |
the County Council. Absolutely. It is terrible news. It is depressing. | :40:56. | :41:02. | |
Very concerning for local taxpayers. A bad day for the reputation of | :41:03. | :41:08. | |
local government. What I hope comes out of this is that we get some | :41:09. | :41:11. | |
transparency about what has been going on. I was elected to the | :41:12. | :41:15. | |
council in May and I know nothing about the background. But I think | :41:16. | :41:22. | |
the people of Lancashire are owed an explanation and a full | :41:23. | :41:24. | |
investigation, and it needs to see the light of day, as to what has | :41:25. | :41:28. | |
been going on. What do you think, Dave? I would say that it is | :41:29. | :41:34. | |
important for local government to be transparent. As I understand, there | :41:35. | :41:39. | |
has been gagging clause put on some individuals in this case, that is a | :41:40. | :41:43. | |
bad thing. Never had to introduce any gagging clauses when I was | :41:44. | :41:47. | |
leader and I do not see why any council Chief Executive or leader of | :41:48. | :41:51. | |
the council should allow it in their own council. Paul, you are a | :41:52. | :41:54. | |
Lancashire MP. What do you make of it? The public want to have the most | :41:55. | :42:02. | |
confidence they can in our elected officials, and in public officials | :42:03. | :42:06. | |
as well, and those elected to represent them. If there are any | :42:07. | :42:09. | |
allegations, they have to be considered thoroughly. I welcome the | :42:10. | :42:15. | |
fact that the lease have lodged an enquiry, I hope everyone can be | :42:16. | :42:19. | |
opened, so the public can have the best confidence that things were | :42:20. | :42:22. | |
done properly, and if that is not the case, there will be a price to | :42:23. | :42:28. | |
pay. Do you have debts yourself is Mac I just know that there would not | :42:29. | :42:33. | |
be a police enquiry at the was not something concerning people. Let's | :42:34. | :42:40. | |
let the police investigate and come in with their findings when the time | :42:41. | :42:44. | |
comes. Another week, another report on High Speed Rail. Lodged in | :42:45. | :42:47. | |
Manchester, it is the Government's fifth business case. What could it | :42:48. | :42:52. | |
mean for us? Supporters say it will slash journey | :42:53. | :42:57. | |
times between London and the North West and provide much`needed extra | :42:58. | :43:00. | |
capacity. The first stage from London to Birmingham could be | :43:01. | :43:04. | |
finished by 2026 and seven years later, the line heading North West | :43:05. | :43:09. | |
to Manchester and also linking up with the West Coast Mainline, just | :43:10. | :43:13. | |
south of Wigan, is predicted to open. It will cost ?42.6 billion, | :43:14. | :43:19. | |
but for every pound spent, the Government estimates it will now | :43:20. | :43:25. | |
produce an economic effect of ? .30, down from the original estimate of | :43:26. | :43:30. | |
?2.50. A total fall in revenue of almost ?9 billion. On the basis of | :43:31. | :43:36. | |
those figures, the parliamentary bill was passed by MPs, allowing | :43:37. | :43:40. | |
money to be spent on surveys and buying up land and property. But | :43:41. | :43:44. | |
High Speed Rail is slowly moving forward. | :43:45. | :43:48. | |
A high`speed future, bringing jobs, better connections and the country | :43:49. | :43:52. | |
finally in line with its European neighbours. If Britain decides that | :43:53. | :43:58. | |
High Speed Rail is not for Britain, this is a brave decision, this is | :43:59. | :44:01. | |
saying that Spain, Italy, France, Germany, China, Japan, have got | :44:02. | :44:08. | |
things fundamentally wrong. No`one at the National Rail Conference | :44:09. | :44:12. | |
needed convincing. They told the Government they can deliver the | :44:13. | :44:15. | |
project, probably under budget and earlier than scheduled. All they | :44:16. | :44:22. | |
need is Parliament to say yes. I understand the desire for a speedier | :44:23. | :44:27. | |
building of the line at it is one thing I will be talking to that I | :44:28. | :44:31. | |
will be talking about with David Higgins about. In this new version, | :44:32. | :44:37. | |
they say only HS2 can reach the gap to North and South, and satisfy the | :44:38. | :44:41. | |
growth in passenger numbers. Without it, they said Owens of pounds will | :44:42. | :44:46. | |
be spent and it will be 14 years of weekend closures. The city leaders | :44:47. | :44:52. | |
in the North West say it kick`start regeneration objects like this one, | :44:53. | :44:55. | |
Aaron Biggar Delhi. Without it, the economy of the North West could | :44:56. | :44:59. | |
stagnate. A recent study said HS2 could boost the UK economy by ? 5 | :45:00. | :45:06. | |
billion. It is not just the big cities benefiting. Wigan could have | :45:07. | :45:11. | |
a potential boost of ?81 million. It also estimated losers, towns not on | :45:12. | :45:16. | |
the route. Lancaster, or to ?5 million. Chester and Ellesmere Port, | :45:17. | :45:21. | |
?29 million. I do not think it is the best way to improve the | :45:22. | :45:24. | |
structure. It is suited to countries in which the cities are a long way | :45:25. | :45:31. | |
apart and the populations are concentrated in those cities. We are | :45:32. | :45:35. | |
not a country like that, we have communities all over the country had | :45:36. | :45:39. | |
many of those are going to lose out in a variety of ways. Concern over | :45:40. | :45:44. | |
the scheme pondered caution from Labour's front bench. The Shadow | :45:45. | :45:49. | |
Chancellor, telling everyone it will not go ahead. By Thursday, the | :45:50. | :45:54. | |
preliminary bill was passed and cross`party consensus return. The | :45:55. | :45:59. | |
whole of the Parliamentary Labour Party is supporting this project and | :46:00. | :46:04. | |
this bill. I am grateful at this date for what appears to be a | :46:05. | :46:10. | |
break`out of political consensus. If the Labour leadership does derail | :46:11. | :46:12. | |
the project over money, they will face a bumpy ride from councils | :46:13. | :46:16. | |
here. Paul, you are a supporter of High | :46:17. | :46:22. | |
Speed Rail. Are you surprised there has not been public `` more public | :46:23. | :46:27. | |
enthusiasm? Agreement there has been a great deal of enthusiasm, most | :46:28. | :46:30. | |
people do want to see an improvement to the existing intercity lines The | :46:31. | :46:35. | |
problem is not about the speed or the time saved, but the capacity | :46:36. | :46:40. | |
issues. Making sure we can get more trains onto the track between the | :46:41. | :46:48. | |
North West and London. The line is full up at the moment and we cannot | :46:49. | :46:53. | |
get the new trains in that we need to expand capacity. | :46:54. | :46:59. | |
But there does not seem to be that groundswell of support, there are | :47:00. | :47:02. | |
still quite a lot of scepticism although people perhaps might quite | :47:03. | :47:05. | |
like it, they are wondering if it is value for my. It is enormous, the | :47:06. | :47:12. | |
amount of money. But we have to look at the cost if we do not go ahead | :47:13. | :47:18. | |
with it. We do not want to see an affluent London floating away and | :47:19. | :47:22. | |
leaving us behind. There is an immense economic output gap to make | :47:23. | :47:27. | |
up with the South of England are part of that is done by improving | :47:28. | :47:30. | |
transport links to generate more from our local economy and improve | :47:31. | :47:35. | |
its within the North as well. Saw more business people are able to | :47:36. | :47:37. | |
come up from London to work here? Exactly, it is also imported we can | :47:38. | :47:43. | |
get from Liverpool to Manchester more speedily, or Manchester to | :47:44. | :47:48. | |
Sheffield. So we cannot just look at HS2 in isolation, we had to look at | :47:49. | :47:51. | |
it alongside things like the Northern Hub. Let's have a look at | :47:52. | :47:58. | |
how much one study says it will cost, compared with elsewhere. In | :47:59. | :48:03. | |
France, High Speed Rail costs ? million per mile to build. In | :48:04. | :48:07. | |
Germany, 22, Spain 34, in the UK, it will cost ?129 million per mile | :48:08. | :48:19. | |
Dave, too expensive? My party does not write a blank cheque. The reason | :48:20. | :48:24. | |
for the high costs is that the Conservative Government has | :48:25. | :48:29. | |
succumbed to backbench pressure and is tunnelling most of this, or a | :48:30. | :48:34. | |
large section of it. My worry is that ?48 billion and counting, by | :48:35. | :48:40. | |
the time we actually get there, there will be no money left to bring | :48:41. | :48:44. | |
the rail system into the North West and beyond. The people behind it say | :48:45. | :48:49. | |
they are clear what the budgets are for both its of the line, and they | :48:50. | :48:53. | |
are on target and on budget and they will stick to that. But they have | :48:54. | :48:57. | |
not build anything yet. If anyone can tell me of a mega steam this | :48:58. | :49:02. | |
size that comes in on time and on price, I will be amazed. I do not | :49:03. | :49:08. | |
believe, the Olympics did not come in on time, well, it came in on | :49:09. | :49:15. | |
time, but not on budget. So you think there are better ways to spend | :49:16. | :49:19. | |
the cash Chew Magna if you want to stimulate the North West, you should | :49:20. | :49:24. | |
look at the East`West rail link That would open up the access to | :49:25. | :49:30. | |
Europe and also the access from Ireland to Liverpool. That would be | :49:31. | :49:34. | |
much better use of resources and would cost a lot less and would have | :49:35. | :49:37. | |
an immediate effect. Where does the Green party stand? We are absolutely | :49:38. | :49:49. | |
against HS2, it does not stack up. It has not been robust Lee assessed | :49:50. | :49:55. | |
`` robustly assessed to meet its objectives and we want to see a | :49:56. | :49:58. | |
rebalance the economy between North and South, but there is no evidence | :49:59. | :50:03. | |
that HS2 will do that. Just explain that side of it. You do not agree | :50:04. | :50:09. | |
with his argument deer `` his argument? We need to be moving | :50:10. | :50:16. | |
towards more localised economies. Just dividing faster trains down to | :50:17. | :50:20. | |
London from Manchester, and already there own figures are saying that | :50:21. | :50:28. | |
for every one person travelling from Manchester to London and back, there | :50:29. | :50:31. | |
are three doing it the other way. So this is clearly about people coming | :50:32. | :50:36. | |
up from London and back. That is not a bad thing if they come to do | :50:37. | :50:40. | |
business here. But what we need is jobs and a good rail infrastructure | :50:41. | :50:45. | |
within the region. That is why they are coming, it is not for tourism. | :50:46. | :50:49. | |
But we need to have our own sustainable economy within the | :50:50. | :50:53. | |
region. We need better rail systems. At the moment, it hits you as long | :50:54. | :50:58. | |
to get from Lancaster to Liverpool as does from Manchester London. | :50:59. | :51:03. | |
Which is why we are not just investing in HS2, but in the | :51:04. | :51:06. | |
Northern Hub, which facilitates greater travel within the North We | :51:07. | :51:12. | |
have electrified rail lines in the region. HS2 is not the only | :51:13. | :51:15. | |
improvement we are seeing from this Government in the North of England. | :51:16. | :51:17. | |
Are you disappointed with the mismanagement of this? Costs have | :51:18. | :51:24. | |
risen and the early figures do not bear relation to what we are now at. | :51:25. | :51:30. | |
Costs have been rising but I and confidence `` but I am confident | :51:31. | :51:33. | |
that we will stick to our budget. If we do not go ahead with it, will we | :51:34. | :51:39. | |
be back here in ten years time, arguing about intercity trains Chew | :51:40. | :51:43. | |
Magna will with these `` intercity trains? The North has to be part of | :51:44. | :51:49. | |
the UK, and it will generate greater economic growth by being part of | :51:50. | :51:56. | |
this. Avenue North West MPs been putting pressure on the Labour | :51:57. | :51:58. | |
leadership to get behind High Speed Rail? Some of them have and some of | :51:59. | :52:04. | |
them have not. Our position is we are not writing a blank cheque. Is | :52:05. | :52:09. | |
the government? It is, it wants to go ahead and did it says it is on | :52:10. | :52:15. | |
budget but what happens if that budget is broken? Is someone going | :52:16. | :52:22. | |
to stop this system midway? That is as far as it will go. I'd like from | :52:23. | :52:28. | |
rail to roads, Lancashire stands to benefit from hundreds of million as | :52:29. | :52:32. | |
of investment over the next decade, under the Preston City Deal. | :52:33. | :52:35. | |
As if that was not enough, people are being asked about a transport | :52:36. | :52:38. | |
master plan for the east of the county. 55 years after the | :52:39. | :52:44. | |
country's first motorway opened in Lancashire, our roads still the way | :52:45. | :52:51. | |
forward? `` our roads. Lancashire has a proud history of | :52:52. | :53:00. | |
road`building. In 1958, Harold Macmillan opened Britain's first | :53:01. | :53:08. | |
motorway, Preston bypass. You were here when the motorway opened, you | :53:09. | :53:12. | |
met the Prime Minister, what did he say? He said hello to me. He said, | :53:13. | :53:17. | |
what do you think about the motorway? I said, it is amazing He | :53:18. | :53:24. | |
said, you will remember this day for the rest of your life. In the years | :53:25. | :53:31. | |
since the motorway opened, there have been plenty more built in this | :53:32. | :53:36. | |
county, but many of Lancashire's roads remain gridlocked, so the | :53:37. | :53:39. | |
solution and the plan for the future is to build more roads. Because of | :53:40. | :53:47. | |
the bypass being built for the den, there will be less traffic, the sign | :53:48. | :53:53. | |
of `` the new city deal has reached ?1 billion for new projects in | :53:54. | :53:56. | |
Preston. Without the infrastructure in place, | :53:57. | :54:01. | |
but cannot get anywhere and it is important, not just to get | :54:02. | :54:04. | |
Lancashire moving but to get Lancashire's economy moving. If not | :54:05. | :54:09. | |
happen overnight but within ten years, this will be a vastly | :54:10. | :54:13. | |
different county. At road`building is not the right priority for | :54:14. | :54:18. | |
everyone. Economic benefit comes from public transport improvement. | :54:19. | :54:21. | |
If the number one priority is roads, we will not be seeing the | :54:22. | :54:24. | |
improvements in the economy. Those cities who invest in public | :54:25. | :54:28. | |
transport are the ones who see the real economic benefits. Wiggo start | :54:29. | :54:35. | |
to get realistic attempts to get people out of their cars. `` if we | :54:36. | :54:40. | |
attempt. People were started see that they have rail that works, | :54:41. | :54:44. | |
buses that work, cycling facilities that work for people. Not just in | :54:45. | :54:54. | |
Preston, where there is new roads, in East Lancashire there is also a | :54:55. | :54:56. | |
transport masterplan in place. Two weeks ago, the Economist said towns | :54:57. | :55:04. | |
like they should be left to die so will this become a road to nowhere? | :55:05. | :55:12. | |
`` towns like Burnley. That view is a lot of hot air, | :55:13. | :55:18. | |
according to those at BCW Engineering, who employ 130 people | :55:19. | :55:23. | |
in Burnley, supplying parts for Jaguar and BAE Systems among others. | :55:24. | :55:30. | |
We have been recognised and we expect the report to be that we do | :55:31. | :55:36. | |
not respect to report to be saying that people should move out of the | :55:37. | :55:39. | |
time. For the supply chain, it is very important that we can reach | :55:40. | :55:44. | |
different suppliers, our customers have better links. So, where will it | :55:45. | :55:51. | |
end? It is time we started looking at what used to happen in the old | :55:52. | :55:56. | |
comics, where they go up in the air as well, to do motorway is! That is | :55:57. | :56:03. | |
one solution they have not thought of! We will have to see. Probably | :56:04. | :56:11. | |
not in my lifetime. For Ann and the rest of my Fisher, we will get to | :56:12. | :56:14. | |
see this latest time to make life easier for drivers and whether it | :56:15. | :56:18. | |
helps to I've the economy. Dave, do we want to see more of | :56:19. | :56:25. | |
that? We need more investment in all of our transport systems, whether it | :56:26. | :56:30. | |
is road, rail or airports. When I was Chairman of economic developer, | :56:31. | :56:33. | |
we built a road which was described as a road to nowhere, but you go | :56:34. | :56:38. | |
there now and you will see thousands of jobs being created. So it can be | :56:39. | :56:44. | |
very good for the local community, but you need to balance these | :56:45. | :56:47. | |
things. I don't think we will ever get people away from their cards in | :56:48. | :56:50. | |
the numbers that some people would like. The worst thing you can have | :56:51. | :56:54. | |
for pollution is congestion, which we are seeing in a lot of roads It | :56:55. | :56:58. | |
seems to me that perhaps this is an area where the needs to be some | :56:59. | :57:02. | |
investment in roads. But not taking it away from rail and other forms of | :57:03. | :57:08. | |
transport. Is this what you would like to see more of? Too much | :57:09. | :57:12. | |
emphasis on roads and not enough on sustainable transport solutions | :57:13. | :57:16. | |
What you get with roads is more traffic. You can free up some road | :57:17. | :57:21. | |
space for the time, then it fills up. The congestion builds up again. | :57:22. | :57:26. | |
It is not a long`term sustainable solution. What we need to do is look | :57:27. | :57:31. | |
at integrated transport systems across our cities and Lancashire. So | :57:32. | :57:38. | |
that smart ticketing, it can make public transport easier, cheaper, | :57:39. | :57:44. | |
more reliable, regular, that is the way to get people out of their cars. | :57:45. | :57:48. | |
What they've is saying is that in the meantime when you bid `` when | :57:49. | :57:52. | |
you build a big role, you can see economic development. What you often | :57:53. | :57:57. | |
see with a new road is within development along that stretch, and | :57:58. | :58:03. | |
it can easily suck out the economic activity in the centres of | :58:04. | :58:05. | |
population, which is where we need them. There is plenty of evidence | :58:06. | :58:09. | |
that roads to not regenerate local economies, they create and develop | :58:10. | :58:14. | |
it, that is not what we want. We need to look at rail investment | :58:15. | :58:17. | |
across the county. But not high speed. What do you think was Mac `` | :58:18. | :58:27. | |
what do you think? Two of the project are actually rail and trams. | :58:28. | :58:32. | |
There is a tramway extension. You cannot get much more sustainable | :58:33. | :58:35. | |
than that. But not all roads are bad, some which are generating | :58:36. | :58:40. | |
congestion, we tried to see if we can reduce that. But not every road | :58:41. | :58:45. | |
project is a bad one. We to remember also that we need to promote | :58:46. | :58:49. | |
economic growth and I am always concerned that the Green party is | :58:50. | :58:53. | |
sometimes a bit antigrowth. I do not state every road is a bad road. No, | :58:54. | :58:58. | |
it is about the type of economic activity. What we seem to be having, | :58:59. | :59:02. | |
the whole debate is about a globalised economy and every thing | :59:03. | :59:06. | |
focused around London. We need more activity within the region, more | :59:07. | :59:09. | |
support for the local economy, and encouraging people to travel less, | :59:10. | :59:13. | |
not pandering to this idea that everyone has to go everywhere | :59:14. | :59:18. | |
Twitter and for longer. `` quicker. I think we need more transport | :59:19. | :59:24. | |
investment than we have had in the past. The reason I am cynical about | :59:25. | :59:29. | |
the high`speed that like about High Speed 2 is it'll suck out lots of | :59:30. | :59:34. | |
money that could be spent on other things. We need to address all these | :59:35. | :59:38. | |
things. We need roads, more airports, rail systems, but as we | :59:39. | :59:42. | |
have seen over the last 30 years, most of the investment in the | :59:43. | :59:46. | |
structure has gone down south, we should have had our fair share. | :59:47. | :59:53. | |
Selling High Speed 2 as an author and scheme is extremely unlikely | :59:54. | :59:56. | |
that the benefits will be derived in the North West and beyond, it is | :59:57. | :00:00. | |
more likely in London. With Mac lets ask Paul about that. It is often the | :00:01. | :00:06. | |
case that the stronger economic region does better initially from | :00:07. | :00:13. | |
HS2, Bible `` what will make a difference is the housing and | :00:14. | :00:18. | |
schools policies, they are able to take advantage of the opportunities | :00:19. | :00:21. | |
that High Speed Rail offers. Looking overseas to Europe, the areas that | :00:22. | :00:26. | |
benefited most had better plans to cope when the time came for the | :00:27. | :00:30. | |
train to open. Time for the rest of the news now, with Mark Edwardson. | :00:31. | :00:38. | |
Birkenhead MP Frank Field has asked the Attorney General to appeal the | :00:39. | :00:41. | |
five`year sentence of a solvable and who kept a tenure old girl as a | :00:42. | :00:45. | |
slave was up Tallat Ashar and her husband were convicted earlier this | :00:46. | :00:48. | |
month. Let me go home, Andy Burnham has | :00:49. | :00:52. | |
written to Barack Obama urging him to take back and deported for Romney | :00:53. | :00:56. | |
claiming he was a US citizen. The party wall was born here, but lived | :00:57. | :01:00. | |
in California for 30 years from the age of nine. `marriage to an | :01:01. | :01:05. | |
American citizen, my daughter is an American citizen. | :01:06. | :01:12. | |
Shutting up shop, the last Remploy factory, in Blackburn, has goes The | :01:13. | :01:16. | |
Government there's its 19 disabled workers will be better off in | :01:17. | :01:20. | |
mainstream industry. Two Merseyside in the departments | :01:21. | :01:23. | |
are getting extra funding this winter. Southport Ormskirk is | :01:24. | :01:27. | |
getting ?4 million, into University Hospital ?1.5 million. | :01:28. | :01:32. | |
The Isle of Man has announced a 20`year ban on scallop dredging | :01:33. | :01:35. | |
along another coast of the stretch `` off the coast, to protect stocks. | :01:36. | :01:46. | |
My thanks to Paul Maynard, Dave Watts and Gina Dowding. Next week, I | :01:47. | :01:52. | |
will be joined by Merseyside valise Commissioner Jane Kennedy as she and | :01:53. | :01:55. | |
the other PCCs prepare to mark a year in office. | :01:56. | :01:57. | |
confident we will deliver that. Thank you for coming, great to see | :01:58. | :02:09. | |
you. Andrew, back to you. Labour 's relationship with Unite and other | :02:10. | :02:17. | |
issues all to be discussed in the Week Ahead and we're joined now by | :02:18. | :02:30. | |
the shadow business secretary Chuka Umunna. First I would like to get | :02:31. | :02:33. | |
your reaction to the interview I did earlier with the General Secretary | :02:34. | :02:36. | |
of the union Unite - Len McCluskey. Let's look at what he said. This is | :02:37. | :02:39. | |
a trap being laid by Tory Central office. They are making all of the | :02:40. | :02:44. | |
demands and the Daily Mail, the Sunday Times, are you telling me | :02:45. | :02:48. | |
they are not the conservative mouthpiece in the media? They are | :02:49. | :02:52. | |
laying traps for Ed Miliband and he should not fall into them. Though it | :02:53. | :02:58. | |
is all a Tory plot. Len McCluskey denies a lot of the allegations put, | :02:59. | :03:04. | |
but let me be clear in an industrial dispute, the use of aggressive or | :03:05. | :03:10. | |
intimidatory tactics by either side is totally unacceptable. Do you | :03:11. | :03:15. | |
think it is wrong for Unite to send its members to the homes of | :03:16. | :03:19. | |
managers? I don't know what happened in that particular case, but I think | :03:20. | :03:24. | |
you should keep people 's families out of these things and if you are | :03:25. | :03:28. | |
doing something that can upset particularly children, that is a bad | :03:29. | :03:33. | |
thing. I know he denied a number of things you put to him. We now know | :03:34. | :03:39. | |
some of the content of Labour 's own report into what happened at Falkirk | :03:40. | :03:44. | |
and they found all sorts of things - forgery, coercion, trickery and even | :03:45. | :03:48. | |
that their own investigation was being thwarted by Unite. What should | :03:49. | :04:00. | |
Labour do next? I have not read the report. We are told that the latest | :04:01. | :04:10. | |
allegations that have been made is something that the police are | :04:11. | :04:13. | |
looking into so that is not something I think would be | :04:14. | :04:24. | |
appropriate for me to comment on. We learned Labour Party members in the | :04:25. | :04:28. | |
Falkirk constituency have complained to the leader of the Scottish party | :04:29. | :04:33. | |
about a lack of action by the Labour Party on what happened in Falkirk. I | :04:34. | :04:43. | |
am not part of the Scottish party and that is news to me. But the | :04:44. | :04:47. | |
police have indicated they are looking at the new information that | :04:48. | :04:51. | |
has come to light. It is a bit like the 1980s and there was an | :04:52. | :04:54. | |
electrifying moment when Neil Kinnock took on the militant | :04:55. | :04:59. | |
tendency in Bournemouth in 1985 Ed Miliband has sort of tried to take | :05:00. | :05:05. | |
on the Unite union, but it has not worked. Does then not need to be an | :05:06. | :05:12. | |
electrifying moment for Ed Miliband? Your own paper has praised him for | :05:13. | :05:16. | |
seeking to address the issues we have in politics and the | :05:17. | :05:20. | |
disconnection from people. In many respects the situation in Falkirk | :05:21. | :05:26. | |
categorises the process of further ongoing change where we are trying | :05:27. | :05:30. | |
to establish a better relationship with individual trade union members. | :05:31. | :05:37. | |
In parts of my constituency, some of the most deprived parts, we had | :05:38. | :05:40. | |
people queueing round the block to vote. I do not think the issue is | :05:41. | :05:46. | |
that people are not political, but they have never felt so far from | :05:47. | :05:51. | |
party politics as they do now and that is why Ed Miliband announced | :05:52. | :05:55. | |
this big chains about how we do things in the Labour Party, so we | :05:56. | :06:00. | |
change structures in the Labour Party that were set up in the 2 th | :06:01. | :06:05. | |
century. The reform of the way in which we connect and our | :06:06. | :06:10. | |
relationship with the union puts us in a good position because we have | :06:11. | :06:14. | |
this relationship between the 3 million working people who ensure | :06:15. | :06:25. | |
our public services function. At Grangemouth INEOS stood up to | :06:26. | :06:29. | |
unite. At Grangemouth and Falkirk Labour rolled over to the Unite | :06:30. | :06:35. | |
union. I do not agree with that I'd just explained the reason. I do not | :06:36. | :06:43. | |
think it is fair to ask people to give evidence in an enquiry on the | :06:44. | :06:49. | |
basis of the report will be confidential and then to publish it | :06:50. | :06:55. | |
after. But if somebody is trying to take over a Labour constituency to | :06:56. | :07:00. | |
send an MP of their choice to our Parliament, that should not be | :07:01. | :07:06. | |
secret, that should be public. Ed Miliband acted very decisively. That | :07:07. | :07:12. | |
constituency party is still in special measures as I understand it. | :07:13. | :07:17. | |
This idea that somehow the Unite union runs the Labour Party, they do | :07:18. | :07:24. | |
not. The special measures mean according to Eric Joyce, that an | :07:25. | :07:30. | |
ally of Stevie Deans is chairing the meeting. I am interested in the Tory | :07:31. | :07:37. | |
suggestion that they would offer free Tory party membership to union | :07:38. | :07:41. | |
members. I then moving onto your turf? We do not know exactly all the | :07:42. | :07:50. | |
facts and the truth of the allegations that have been made On | :07:51. | :07:59. | |
your point I think it is healthy the Conservatives are looking to recruit | :08:00. | :08:04. | |
trade union members. A lot of their rhetoric is very negative in respect | :08:05. | :08:11. | |
of trade unions. If you look at Unison a third of the members vote | :08:12. | :08:18. | |
Conservative. In Unite union some of their members vote Tory. I think | :08:19. | :08:22. | |
trade unions have a lot to bring to our country. It is one of the things | :08:23. | :08:28. | |
many up and down the country will find very frustrating, a lot of the | :08:29. | :08:33. | |
good work that unions do if it gets tarnished with all the negative | :08:34. | :08:37. | |
stuff you see... Unite are working in partnership with GM and the | :08:38. | :08:43. | |
senior management in Ellesmere Port and the government ensured that we | :08:44. | :08:48. | |
kept that plant open. That gets overlooked by all of this. Do you | :08:49. | :08:56. | |
not think the bolshie behaviour from unions are motivated not by | :08:57. | :09:01. | |
strength, but by weakness. Unite know they cannot paralyse the | :09:02. | :09:04. | |
country in the way their forebears used to be able to do. Their | :09:05. | :09:10. | |
penetration rates in the private sector is 11%. The union movement is | :09:11. | :09:15. | |
weaker than it was before I was born. Some of that truck killers and | :09:16. | :09:20. | |
bad behaviour either death spasms of their movement rather than something | :09:21. | :09:25. | |
that is motivated by the fact they can't paralyse the country. You have | :09:26. | :09:34. | |
two increase the membership. But there is an issue about the public | :09:35. | :09:39. | |
perception of trade unions. It is right they should be a voice of | :09:40. | :09:43. | |
protest and anger and stand up for their members when it is necessary. | :09:44. | :09:49. | |
But people join unions for their aspiration. The unions do a lot so | :09:50. | :09:55. | |
that people can move up in their workplace. That profile needs to | :09:56. | :09:59. | |
come across as strongly as the protest part. I want to move on to | :10:00. | :10:06. | |
business. The head of the CBI has said that Labour's pro-enterprise | :10:07. | :10:14. | |
credentials have suffered a setback. He said that in relation to Ed | :10:15. | :10:19. | |
Miliband's speech. I was on the radio earlier. If you look at the | :10:20. | :10:23. | |
things in the speech, some of that was going to be uncomfortable for | :10:24. | :10:28. | |
some of the countries and they tend to be companies represented by the | :10:29. | :10:32. | |
CBI, like energy companies, like land developers, a lot of the big | :10:33. | :10:38. | |
business lose out from is not doing the corporate tax cut. The energy | :10:39. | :10:46. | |
freeze is going to help over 2. million businesses that have been | :10:47. | :10:50. | |
hit by high energy bills. The business community has said we had | :10:51. | :10:55. | |
to bring the public sector finances back into balance. That is why we | :10:56. | :11:00. | |
decided to switch the money being used to reduce corporation tax and | :11:01. | :11:06. | |
use that to help a much greater variety of businesses by doing a | :11:07. | :11:11. | |
business rate cut. It is all pro enterprise. They also seem to be | :11:12. | :11:19. | |
critical of your new idea of a living wage. They are not critical. | :11:20. | :11:25. | |
It would not be compulsory, but there would be a tax credit if they | :11:26. | :11:32. | |
paid it. It is good for business because if people are earning more | :11:33. | :11:37. | |
than they are more productive. It is good for the employee and good for | :11:38. | :11:42. | |
us as well because it means we are not having to subsidise people to be | :11:43. | :11:50. | |
paid to the extent we have with tax credits and benefits. Everybody | :11:51. | :11:57. | |
benefits from this. We all know after 2009 we need to have bold | :11:58. | :12:04. | |
change. Does Labour paid a living wage? We have got over 20 of our | :12:05. | :12:12. | |
councils signed up to doing so and we have made commitments in respect | :12:13. | :12:17. | |
to Whitehall. Does the Labour Party pay it? I believe so. Would it not | :12:18. | :12:27. | |
be worth checking? Do you get a living wage? Yes, of course I do. I | :12:28. | :12:40. | |
understand we paid a living wage. What does it feel like for Tristram | :12:41. | :12:45. | |
Hunt who has taken over your mantle as Labour's next leader? Is that a | :12:46. | :12:53. | |
relieved or are you angry? He is one of my best friends and at the end of | :12:54. | :12:58. | |
the day if we got obsessed with this soap opera stuff we would never get | :12:59. | :13:02. | |
anything done and we are working together to make sure we have got | :13:03. | :13:11. | |
the right skills in our workforce. That is all for today. The daily | :13:12. | :13:17. | |
politics is on all week. I will be here again next weekend at 12:2 pm | :13:18. | :13:26. | |
after the Remembrance Day service at the Cenotaph. Remember if it is | :13:27. | :13:28. | |
Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics. Planet Earth - it's unique. | :13:29. | :13:57. | |
It has life. To understand why, we're going to | :13:58. | :14:02. | |
build a planet...up there. There were the objects that were | :14:03. | :14:10. | |
making the Earth. We're now weightless. | :14:11. | :14:13. | |
That's how our planet started. Your arms are a little bit long | :14:14. | :14:15. | |
Is that as small as they go? This is like every shopping trip | :14:16. | :14:18. | |
I've ever been on. | :14:19. | :14:23. |