08/06/2014 Sunday Politics North West

David Cameron slaps down two of his most senior Cabinet ministers

over their public row about Islamist extremism in schools.

And it?s HER special advisor that has to resign.

We'll talk to the Shadow Education Secretary live

Should this man become the next President of the EU Commission?

David Cameron has staked a lot on stopping Luxembourg Federalist

But could the arch europhile yet get the top job?

Here's to the quarter of a million votes.

And we'll find out why this political party is celebrating with

a pint down the pub and how their success may have cost UKIP two MEPs.

Coming up in the North West: the Rochdale care home scandal. You re

in Safe Hands ` Has Boris Johnson deserted the

suburbs and become a zone one man? And with me our panel

of top political journalists, who are always squabbling among

themselves, Nick Watt, Polly Toynbee and Janan Ganesh, who will be

tweeting throughout the programme This morning's political news is

dominated by the very public fall-out of

Home Secretary Theresa May and The high viz blue

on blue spat between two senior Conservatives centred around the

Government's approach to tackling The row burst into the open ahead

of the publication tomorrow of investigations into the so-called

Trojan Horse plot in Birmingham where it is alleged several state

schools have been covertly taken Mr Gove told The Times last week he

was concerned that the Home Office was unwilling to tackle extremism

at its roots. He said a robust response was

needed to drain the swamp. In response,

Mrs May's special advisor tweeted, "why is the Department for Education

wanting to blame other people Lord knows what more they have

overlooked on the subject of the An angry David Cameron ordered

a speedy inquiry. Last night, Mr Gove apologised to

the Prime Minister, while Ms May's Speaking

on the BBC earlier this morning this is what Foreign Secretary,

William Hague, had to say. There's been a disciplinary matter

within the Government, which the Prime Minister has dealt

with in a very firm, clear way. There will be discipline

in the Government. The main thing is the issue itself -

tackling extremism in schools. The Government will be very clear,

very robust about anything that s put children at risk -

risk to their safety or learning. Let's look at the positive of this.

Theresa May 's people of saying she has come off worse in theirs. Yelena

Kushi is no more guilty than Michael Gove he was guilty of indiscretion.

She is no more guilty. Even during 13 years of new Labour 's

psychodrama, I cannot remember an act of hostility quite as naked as

direct as publishing on a website and intergovernmental letter. It

suggests quite a lot of conservatives do not think they will

win next time. Why would there be a leadership spat going on like this

unless they thought there was a vacancy? Inside the Cabinet, Theresa

May is getting quite a bashing. In the Sunday Times, someone has

reported she is the date from hell. She sidles up to people and is

nakedly ambitious. I think that is interesting. On the whole, nobody

will understand the finesse differences of opinion. It is not

serious, it is not serious, it is tactical. It'll be puzzling for most

people and will probably fizzle out. Has the Prime Minister slapped it

down or will it rumble on? On the politics of it, it will not fizzle

out. What you have is Theresa May is deadly serious about replacing David

Cameron, not dislodging him but replacing him if there is a vacancy.

Michael Gove is deadly serious in ensuring George Osborne succeeds

David Cameron. It will be that ongoing political rivalry. What is

really interesting about this is the Prime Minister is absolutely fed up

with both of them. He is fed up with Michael Gove full-size gearing of

message. He had the row with Nick Clegg and he had a row with Theresa

May. He named Charles Barr and criticised him in a lunch with the

times. White brother he is the Security adviser at the Home Office.

-- he is the security advisor. He is fed up with Theresa May for mounting

an unannounced leader bid. What separates Theresa May from Michael

Gove on dealing with extremism? The view from Michael Gove is that it

shows no interest in Islamic extremism until it manifests in

violent form. Theresa May is criticised for rolling back the

programme which the previous Labour government introduced to do with the

previous Labour government introduced to do with the Home

Office has been made by other people and made when the Home Office was

not run by Theresa May but previous home secretaries, even dating back

to the Conservative government in the 1990s. It is about the laxity of

the Government. Michael Gove has used extraordinary inflammatory

language talking about draining the swamp. I think Theresa May 's view

is you can very easily inflamed those emotions and create many more

extremists the process. Michael Gove would say that his approach is

entirely consistent with the speech the Prime Minister made to the

Munich Security conference in 2 11 when the Prime Minister talked about

warp the grape great religion of Islam. The Birmingham school system

is going to be one of the most reported systems in Europe.

Joining me now from Kent is Shadow Education Secretary Tristram Hunt.

Should parents of Birmingham children be worried that some of

their schools are in the grip of an Islamist takeover? I think parents

in Birmingham schools will be very disappointed by the political

infighting going on in the Government. The briefings, the

resignations, the apologies. The real apology that Michael Gove needs

to deliver it to the pupil -- the pupils and parents of Birmingham.

There was a potential threat of radicalisation. He fell to act for

four years. The Labour Party is asking, when did he know the fact

that radicalisation could have been taking place? What has been going on

for the last four years? What we in the Labour Party want to see if much

stronger systems of local oversight and accountability to situations

like this do not arise again. Is there, in your view, if some of the

Birmingham schools, an Islamist takeover? What we have seen in the

leaked Ofsted report so far is fears about cultural isolation and an

overconcentration on Islamic teaching within the curriculum. We

want young people to celebrate their cultural identity, celebrate

themselves as Muslims. We also want them to have an education which

makes them succeed in multicultural 21st-century Birmingham. We want to

be quite tough on moves towards gender segregation, a restricted

curriculum. Birmingham is a multicultural city. We need an

education system which celebrates that. What is wrong with gender

segregation? You went to an all boys school. Where you have gender

segregation, we have had a long tradition in Catholic schooling

Where you have a state education system, which is about gender

equality between boys and girls and there is an unofficial policy of

gender segregation, that is unacceptable. We should not be

tarring communities with the same brush in terms of radicalisation. We

do want to see a successful, multicultural education. Two years

ago, Ofsted rated Parkview as outstanding. Now it looks like

tomorrow it is going into special measures. What is it up to? I do

think there is an issue for Ofsted that you can go from outstanding to

inadequate so quickly. That is why we are asking for a new criteria to

be introduced to look at a broad and balanced curriculum. We have healthy

sex and relationship education. There is a real issue this morning

as the BBC has been reporting on the night for the Department of

Education. We are hearing that some of those involved in the schools

were not allowed to open a free school on security grounds. They

were allowed to allow one of the schools to be taken over as an

academy. We have a lack of oversight and accountability in schools within

Birmingham. What the Labour Party wants is a local director of school

standards to make sure we challenge underperformance and make sure we

get in confronting Islamic extremism when it was in power? I was speaking

to Hazel blears and she was very clear about the prevent programme

which they rolled out when in office. A very atomised and

fragmented school system where every school is looked at from behind a

desk in Whitehall and he put that together and you do have an

increased risk of chances of radicalisation. You have attacked Mr

Gove for gross negligence. Was it the same -- you attacked Mr Gove for

gross negligence. We are dealing with a government which has been in

since 2010. The Government needs to hold the executive to account. We

note the Department Michael Gove was warned by a senior and respected

head teacher about fears over radicalism. What did he know and

what did he act upon? We are hearing more reports of conversations about

fears, about radicalisation, taking over some of the governing bodies of

schools. We need to know what ministers did. Let me continue. You

mention the capital to prevent strategy. Was it gross negligence

for Labour to regularly consult a man who once headed a group

dedicated to making Britain an Islamic state and wrote a book about

schools full of Taliban style decrees. I think the events in

Birmingham are enormously significant. About the nature of

multiculturalism, the nature of education, the role of civic

education, the role of faith schools. I will say to you this

morning that Birmingham City Council, Ofsted, the Labour Party,

the Department for Education were all involved in this conversation.

In 2010, ministers were warned about potential radicalisation of schools

and they fell to act. We need to know why, for years on, they allowed

this situation to exacerbate. When you look at the record of labour and

this government 's record, there are plenty of examples where both of you

fail to act. Would it not be better to drop the party politics and get

together to confront this problem for the sake of the children? There

are a number of reports going on in Birmingham. Some are led by the city

council, some by the Department for Education. Labour MPs this morning

have come forward with the Bishop of Birmingham talking about faith in

schools. If you have a minister failing to do their job, if you have

a minister being given warnings in 2010 and failing to act on them for

four years, the opposition has a role to hold the executive to

account. This is about the safety and standards of teaching for pupils

in Birmingham schools. It is about a great education for these young

people so they can succeed in a modern, multicultural Britain. Do

you agree with your Shadow Cabinet colleague, Rachel Reeves, that

Labour' as core voters are abandoning the party? She was

building on what Ed said the day after the elections in Berwick. We

have to make sure those communities who we historically represent regard

Labour as having a successful message for them. I am passionate

about making sure we have great vocational and technical education,

the great academic education in our schools. If we have more work to do

to get people to the polling booths, we must do that. We must

with listen to what she says. David Cameron has staked a lot on

stopping the former PM of Luxembourg - named by one newspaper as 'the

most dangerous man in Europe' because of his federalist views -

from becoming the next president Mr Cameron has reportedly described

Jean Claude Juncker as a 'face from the 80s who cannot solve the

problems of the next five years . But with the German Chancellor

Angela Merkel publicly backing Mr Juncker, it's not a dead cert that

Mr Cameron can stop his appointment. This is what he had to say at the G7

summit earlier this week: It is important that we have people

running the institutions of Europe who understand the need for change

and reform. I would argue that view is widely shared amongst other heads

of government and heads of state in the European Union. I am clear what

I want to achieve for Britain's future, to secure Britain's placed

in a reformed European Union and I have a strategy for delivering

that, a strategy for dealing with an issue which I think if we walk away

from it would see Britain drift towards the exits.

We've been joined from Berlin by the German MEP Elmar Brok who is

a senior figure in the EPP - that's the party backing Mr Juncker.

He's also Chairman of the Union of European Federalists.

And in our Newcastle newsroom is the former Conservative MEP Martin

Callanan who until last month led the European Conservatives

and Reformists group in Brussels. Welcome to you both.

The United Kingdom, Sweden, Hungary, they don't want Mr Junker, the new

Italian Prime Minister doesn't look keen either, should he bow out

gracefully? First of all, he wants to have Mr Junker but he wants to

have his conditions. Will he become president of the European Council, a

high representative? It is a discussion to be had in the next

three or four weeks until the European Parliament can elect the

president of the European Council after the proposal of the European

Council, which has to be done after consultation with the Parliament in

the light of the European elections and by a majority vote. If not Mr

Junker, then who? There are many available candidates, I am not going

to mention them in front of someone so esteemed as Elmar Brok.

to mention them in front of someone Lagarde, the minister from

Lithuania, these are people who have a record of old reform. Junker is

the ultimate Europe insider. We need radical inform. We need to respond

to the message the electorate gave us in the elections -- radical

reform. Junker said he had to lie in public, he allowed the security

services to conduct a dirty tricks campaign against his opponent. This

is majority in the light of the

European elections after consultation with the European

Parliament. The council cannot get a candidate against the will of the

European Parliament. Mr Junker has a majority in the European Parliament.

Theoretically he is right, the Parliament has do vote on the

candidates proposed by the council. I want to challenge the view that

somehow he won the European elections. There is no provision for

Jean Claude Junker to stand in the elections. He is saying that the EEP

party got the most number of seats in the Parliament but none of the

electorate knew they were taking part in this election. How many

people who voted Labour in the United Kingdom realised that their

vote would count towards a German socialist to be a candidate for the

commission of presidency is a nonsensical proposal. The elections

were 28 individual elections with hundreds of parties across Europe.

To try to claim there is a democratic mandate for somebody

nobody has heard from Luxembourg to take over the commission is a

nonsense. People should know him, if I should say that ironically.

Newspapers talking about members of the family of his wife with Nazi

links... What is the answer to Martin Callinan's point? I think it

is clear that British Conservatives have no candidate because they are

not a broad European family, they have not impacted on the selection

of top candidates but it is a form of isolation of the British Tory

Party. The Prime Minister said if Mr Junker is appointed it could lead to

Britain drifting towards the EU exit, is that credible? Is it

melodramatic? It is true that we want to renegotiate the

relationship. We want some serious reform in Europe so the people who

vote in a referendum will be able to vote to stay in if that is what they

want. We need a bold reformer, somebody prepared to engage. That is

not anti the interests of the UK. We need to recognise there is a problem

with public perception of the European Union. Elmar Brok is proud

to be one of the last bastions of federalism that that is not where

most of the public opinion is in Europe. I understand why he wants

his man installed but we need to take into account the message of the

letter -- the electorate. 25% of the publishing of France were prepared

to vote for an openly racist party. We can't just ignore the signal that

the electorate were sending us. If enthusiasm for federalism was at an

all-time low, it would be a slap in the face for the voters of Europe to

have a federalist as the president, would it not? 70, 80% of the members

of the European Parliament, selected by their people, are pro-Europeans.

These are the winners of the European elections. Even in France,

a majority of voters have voted pro-European and that should be

clear, not to make this a populist thing which is not only to do with

Europe. And we want to have a Europe which is strong, the member states

should do their things. We do not want to have a European centralism,

we do not want a European state This is not at stake. Let's talk

about the question of better governance, let's talk about what

was wrong in the past, we have to become better, to change our

programme in that question. That should be the way we lead to come to

positive results. Thank you for that. Before we go, there is a

British commissioner that needs to be appointed to Brussels, do you

like the sound of that? These are matters for the Prime Minister, I am

sure he has many excellent candidates. Do you like the sound of

it? Like previous British commissioners, Chris Patten, Neil

clinic, I have just lost an election -- Neil Kinnock for the everybody

who is asked would serve, I'm sure. Just days ago UKIP were celebrating

topping the poll in the European They're claiming they'd have had two

more MEPs and the Greens two fewer had another

party not confused the electorate. What's more UKIP say it's

the fault of the body which was set up to oversee

elections - the Electoral Commission This is a party celebrating success

at the European elections. They didn't win a single MEP but

nationally polled 250,000 votes They are an independence from

Europe, mostly people who were once in UKIP, and that is rather the

point. They may look like capers, drink like capers, sound like capers

-- -- sound like kippers, but they are not. The name and the logo were

displayed on this banner when the party launched its campaign. UKIP

suggest the look, the wording and the inclusion of UK in now confused

voters, and are looking at rewriting such a wrong. The way that seats are

allocated in a European election under a proportional representation

system is using this formula. It was invented by a Belgian mathematician

in 1878 and it is essentially this. When all of the votes have been

tallied up, the one with the most seats gets the first MEPC in a

region. The others are allocated using votes cast divided by the

number of seats gained plus one -- first MEP seat in a region. UKIP

were concerned with South West and London. There they say, when the

last MEP seats were being allocated, if everyone who had voted for an

independence from Europe had meant to vote for UKIP and you tallied

their votes up, and added them to UKIP, UKIP would have been up one in

each region and the greens would have lost them. Whether you can

prove that voters did that by mistake is a very different matter.

UKIP may have to just chalk it up to experience. It has happened before,

back in the European elections of 1994. Then in England under the

first past the post system. This man, Richard Huggett, decided to

stand as a little Democrat and polled a significant number of

votes. The Liberal Democrat candidate at the time is now an MP.

Many people voted and afterwards realised that they had bubbly voted

for -- probably voted for a little Democrat, not a Liberal Democrat as

they had been intending to do - bubbly voted for a literal Democrat

-- probably voted. Mr Sanders got some consolation In

1998, laws came into rule on so-called spoiler tactics and the

Electoral Commission was established. The Electoral

Commission are based on the seventh floor of this building and they did

look into this issue prior to voting. They have given us a

statement that reveals the conclusion they came to, part of

which says, we decided that the name of the party, and its description

are sufficiently different to those registered by the UK Independence

Party, UKIP, to mean, in our opinion, that voters were not likely

to be confused if they appeared on the same ballot paper. Pretty

conclusive stuff. Back at the pub, were an independence from Europe

just being crafty, or do UKIP need to wake up and smell the flowers? We

attack them in all areas. An independent study for Anglo

Netherlands because I was involved in the Dutch -- with the Dutch

member of Parliament and the description was UK Independence now,

nobody has a monopoly on the word independence. I have been fighting

for independence since I started in 1994, before I joined UKIP. The

party tell me they will stand again at the general election next year.

The ironies not lost on them or the major parties of UKIP complaining

that a smaller party has been taking votes of them.

Joining me now to discuss this story is Gawain Towler.

He's the UKIP candidate for the South West region, who failed to get

And in our Bristol studios is the victorious Green MEP for

How many of the 23,000 votes that were cast for the Independence party

were meant for you? Impossible to tell. I want to congratulate Molly

for getting elected. They are the breaks. I do not think there is a

purpose in complaining about boats that are cast. Do you think you

would have one otherwise? Yes, I do. You have to look at the

would have one otherwise? Yes, I do. You have to look boats for parties

people have not heard of and those with a long tradition that people

have heard of. I do not think there is any doubt. If you saw the spoiled

ballot papers, the amount of people who had voted at the top and the

bottom, most people are not anoraks, they say, they are the people I

want. They know what they are after. I think it is at least told. It is

said you owe your seat to And Independence Party. It is strange

for a man to say he could represent people in the south-west better than

me. There has been outpouring of delight that a Green MP has finally

been elected. A number of people have been saying they have been

voting all their lives and it is the first time they have elected

anybody. I am glad to represent them in a significant legislature. What

would you say to that? I find it strange. I am perfectly happy for

her to be elected. I feel the electoral commission has questions

to answer. But, congratulations to Molly. Why do you want an extra seat

for the Greens in the European Parliament but your national share

of the vote actually fell. We did come under pressure nationally. If

he is complaining about the role the election commission said we could

stand, the rule we were not happy with was the off, ruling which said

we were not a main party. We got significantly less media time and

that is why our belt actually fell. Not on the Daily Politics or the

Sunday Politics, where you were well represented. Was it a problem for

UKIP in other parts of the country? Only in London. What do you think

happened there? Very much the same. I do not think there is any doubt,

the number of people we have had getting in touch saying, I am really

sorry, I made a mess, that they voted for the wrong party. They are

the breaks. Politics is politics. What I would like to see and what is

reasonable, and I hope Molly would agree, there needs to be a reform -

a serious reform of the Electoral Commission. There is no appeal

process. They say it is not confusing. Lets see if she thinks

that. I make it a policy never to agree with UKIP. What is important

to note, if you look at the votes and the way the votes fell out and

the seats fell out in the south-west, it is difficult for an

Electoral Commission to turn boats into seats. UKIP got 33% of the vote

and 33% of the seats. For them, the system worked very well in the

south-west. Nationally, Greens did not get represented as the vote

share would require. That is because you get very small number of seats

in the different regions and you have to reach a high threshold. The

Green Party has a right to complain about the level of seats we have

ended up with. White rapper you have complaints about the Electoral

Commission? We need to move to a proportional system for elections

generally. If we poll around 7% 8%, we should be looking at having 0,

40 seats in the national legislature. We need to consider

proportional representation for national elections. Do you accept

the ballot paper may have confused some people? I think what happened

is that some people in UKIP were very worried. Worried about the

rightward move of UKIP and the authoritarian leadership of Nigel

Farage. He set up a separate party. That is what happens in politics,

particularly when parties are led by demagogues and are not focused on

Democratic policy. Do you have any legal redress to this? None

whatsoever. Have you had legal advice? I am told there is no

redress. We do feel, I am sure Molly does not agree with UKIP on anything

so, if we say the sun rises in the morning, she probably will disagree

with that. If, at the next election, there is a party called the Grown

Party, will she then complain? There needs to be some level of

accountability and, without that, one wonders what is going on. We

have an organisation with enormous and important power and influence

which is setup to stop this of thing going on. It has failed. Not has it

has failed. Not present served in Tower Hamlets and there have been

massive problems with postal votes. It is failing on almost everything

it is supposed to do. Just to go back for a final point from Molly.

Should there be a right of appeal to the rulings of the Electoral

Commission? You need to have an authoritative body that makes

decisions in this area and we have the Electoral Commission. It is

about being sore losers on the part of UKIP. I am delighted to represent

people in the South West. Should there be a right of appeal or not?

You need an authoritative body and the Electoral Commission is that. I

do not think it should have a right to appeal.

We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now

Coming up here in 20 minutes, we'll be discussing extremism

Hello, I'm Arif Ansari. Comhng up in the North West: You're in s`fe

hands. The country's youngest councillor tells us why he's thrown

himself into politics. And joining me this week, the Labour MP for

Heywood and Middleton, Jim Dobbin. And the Conservative MP for Chester,

Stephen Mosley. The Queen's speech, exciting? It was. We have h`d some

big hills in the last four xears. This is about making sure a lot of

the things we want to do ard being done. Things like the anti`slavery

bill. Bills to protect women and girls. Things to help pensioners.

There is a lot in it. It is not radical. We have had some rdally

radical policies like welfare and police reform. We are all aware this

is the final year of Parlialent and it is about making sure we get

something things done that light not have been priority in early years of

government. Would you like to have seen more done? I am Michael I would

like to have seen something about the health service. It was overall a

short speech and I understand why. We are coming towards the end of a

fixed term parliament and there will not be a lot of time to deb`te

issues properly in the chamber. We have a summer break on the 22nd of

July, then we are into Christmas after that and Parliament fhnishes

in March next year. It is the rather futuristic bill as they werd seeing.

It is a bit over the top for Labour to be condemning it as a zolbie

Parliament? We have had one of the most radical governments evdr over

the last four years and I do not think you can call it zombid. There

have been some meaty changes. The scandal `` The scandal over the

Rochdale care home where thd former Liberal MP Sir Cyril Smith hs

alleged to have abused boys took a new turn this week. A former health

worker says he's come to believe that a report he wrote into abuse at

Knowl View was covered up bx the council at the time. And thd fallout

over how the scandal's been handled has fuelled a coup within the

Rochdale Labour Party resulting new leader. Euan Doak reports.

Victory for Labour absolutely, I think they have made a

wise choice in choosing Richard to be the leader of the council. He was

the leader in the late 80s `nd the beginning of the 90s. I havd spoken

to him on many occasions about the situation and he assured me he was

never made aware of the abuse that was going on. Former leader Colin

Lambert was deposed after bding criticised for his handling of this

and other high`profile storhes. He believes once the QC's report is

published a national enquirx is needed. It does not happen just here

in Rochdale, it is happening in many communities. A full`blown n`tional

inquiry needs to be held whhch will include evidence taken from here and

other times and bars across the UK. `` towns and bars. `` boroughs. The

results of the council inquhry are expected later in the summer. What

do you think about him taking over as leader? I do not think it is wise

at this time. He was leader of the council at the time these

accusations were made. I do not think it is a clever thing for him

to do. Collaborate, why do xou think it is a bad move? I think the

inquiry that is ongoing or just about to start into this particular

care home, which is in conjtnction with the police, because he was

leader of the council at thd time these accusations were made. Even

though he may not have known anything about it at all, I still

think because of that it is wrong for him to be taking up leadership

of the council at this time. He said he did not know anything about it.

That may be true but that is not the perception that will be out there in

the public arena in Rochdald. Because of that, it would bd more

wise for him to take a back`seat at this stage. From an outsider's

perspective it does not look good. To have the man who was in charge

while this was going on and there are allegations of cover`up. From an

outsider's point of view it does not look good that he is in charge while

this investigation is going on. He should step down to allowed the full

investigation to go ahead and pick up the reins afterwards. He is

hardly going to step down when he has just stepped up. Back to you.

You were deputy at the end part of this period, did you know anything?

Not at all. The first time H had an inkling of this was when a xoung man

came to see me in 1989 `` 98 D9 `` 99 to 2000. He made his alldgations

about the treatment he recehved in that care home when he was ` young

boy. At that time and after he came to see me I went to see the Chief

Superintendent at the time. That is on record. He had a police

investigation into this at the highest level and he came b`ck and

told us there was no obvious evidence of what they were being

accused of. We had to accept that at the time and I reported that back to

the young man who came to sde me. Do you regret, in retrospect, not doing

more? As bad as I was concerned I had done what a member of P`rliament

should do. I took up the case and we got a response from the polhce. You

well know that the Rochdale MP has publicly criticised you for not

doing enough at the time? I Michael he criticises me all the tile, that

is the sort of relationship we have unfortunately. I am not surprised he

is saying things like that. At the same time, what we can say `bout the

MP is that he has really drhven this. He has brought it to the

attention of the House of Commons. Could you not have done that as one

of the MPs as well? I think this is all in the back of the boots he has

written about Cyril Smith. He has spent the last year researching

this. `` the book. When I knew Cyril Smith he was adored and idolised by

the community. I did not know anything else about what he might be

involved with. I am not condoning anything that has come out recently

but I think I did exactly what I had to do at the time. And what about

the leader of the council? H think so, yes. He was not around hn the

early part of this. My own view is that he did his very best ones he

knew that this was on the agenda. He set up this inquiry. He has got the

support of the Chief Constable. I have written to Sir Peter F`hy and

the legal services in Rochd`le in support. OK, we will leave ht there.

Remember your teenage years and it was hard enough getting out of bed,

never mind into a polling station let alone standing for election

Arguing about bin collections and budget cuts might not appeal to

everyone. But for one 18`ye`r`old in Pendle it did, and he's now the

country's youngest councillor. We sent a fresh`faced Stuart Pollitt to

meet him. Like most 18`year`olds, Lyle Davy likes the pub, and he s

into his football. But unlike most teenagers, he's also into local

government. Lyle was inspirdd to go into politics when the Primd

Minister spoke to him during a visit to Barnoldswick. The main thing he

wanted to do was tell us how they were getting young people involved

nationally. I went away and thought about it for a bit, then I was

selected and went on the calpaign trail. He cold on a few fridnds to

help out. We handed out leaflets. He has really got into it, he has done

really well. So well that Lxle overturned a 300 plus Lib Ddm

majority to become the first Tory to win his ward in more than 30 years.

Youngsters in politics alwaxs makes us think of this. But Lyle hsn't the

only young councillor in Pendle Across the country, councillors

remain older with an averagd age of 60. Meetings are held in thd

afternoon which if you are working makes it difficult to attend. While

he might not look like local councillors are supposed to look, he

got elected by doing what they are supposed to do, campaigning on local

issues. People liked what I was doing and the fact I was local, I

have done a lot of on the ground campaigning. Will we see yot in

Parliament? Maybe one day. @nd Lyle believes his big step is a small

step forward in encouraging more teens into politics. I think we have

shown that young people can have the say and get results. And we're also

joined by Rebecca Moore, who's Manchester's youngest counchllor

after winning in last month's local elections aged 22. Is it a bit weird

getting this involved in politics at this young an age? It is not that we

do for myself. I have been ` member of the Labour Party for fivd years.

I have been involved in campaigns both local and national but more

recently got involved in my local constituency and I was asked if I

had ever thought about standing I ended up getting selected and it is

a community where 54% of thd population are my age and younger. I

thought I could fit. I have been involved for a long time. It is very

daunting but I am here now. You said you got involved at 17, what do you

think gets people like you interested in politics when others

at a young age are quite alhenating from it? I had the support of group

around me who made it relathve to what I was interested in. For many

young people they think thex political process is completely

distanced from them. They do not relate to it. They cannot w`tch

question Time or look at PMP 's and think that relates to something I am

interested in. They do not think politicians cheer about what they

think. I do not think they `re particularly interested, especially

in this government. They ard not offering anything that might be of

interest or support for the young people of this country. I think

young people are interested in politics but not party politics

They are interested in camp`igns, working for charities and what is

happening in the world. In some ways that is a good thing becausd I think

politics looks an awful lot better if you are not always head to head

having party political battles but working together for the betterment

of your own community. It is about wanting to change something and

going to the ballot box to put your cross in the box. I have to make

myself available so people can talk to me. When campaigns come through

you have to respond and givd an honest answer. What do you think? I

thinking graduations. Thank you I think the youth Parliament hs very

important. I think you have got to look at life as a whole and very

often when you get the result in politics it takes over your life.

There are other issues you have to address and part of that is getting

yourself a good education. Getting a job for yourself and some lhfetime

experience. My involvement hs very similar. Going into schools. I

remember going into one of ly high school and I started talking about

how decisions were made in local government. I looked at the

first`time voters and they were totally glazed. I stopped after two

minutes and started asking puestions rather than talking at them.

Afterwards I said to the politics teacher, a piece of advice, give

them a grounding first before you ask politicians in to speak to

youngsters like this, they need to know a bit of background first of

all. What do you think? I think you can be political in communities when

doing charity work but I do not think they necessarily relate that

to party politics. 54% of mdn voted while only 34 think of women did. We

need to look at either end. My e`mail is to fit a niche in

Manchester City council that is not being addressed at the moment by

politicians. How can MPs engage young people? I think it is great

you both go out and talk to young people about the issues that matter

to them but you need to ask what they care about and genuine racial

and interest. Whether his education or whatever they are interested in

India life, whether it is the price of the box and, I think it hs just

about understanding. You nedd to use social media as well. Do yot use

social media? I have started. I am a tweeter. It is when I am retired, it

is used as a young person who will have to work and pay the tax to pay

my pension. We want young pdople to get the skills and experience to go

on and have good careers. Thank you for coming in. Time for the rest of

the week's news now, here's 60 seconds. Plans for five supdr

hospitals across Greater Manchester have been published. The Salford

Royal, Oldham and The Manchdster Royal Infirmary could be three of

them. It'll mean the downgr`ding of A E in three others. Transport us

to a better future. A report by MPs said our roads and rail need more

investment and that too much money is spent in London. The Labour MP

for Bootle, Joe Benton, could lose his seat after party members voted

to open up the selection process. Mr Benton, who's 80, says he w`nts to

continue. The rain Party saxs plans to make shale gas extraction easier

threaten the rights of homeowners. The Government wants to allow oil

and gas companies to run pipelines under private land without the

consent of owners. I am confident we will not see fracking in Brhtain,

there is strong public opposition. And Liverpool City Council's

announced plans for 1,500 ndw homes and the renovation of anothdr 1 000.

The council hopes the schemd will attract ?200 million of private

investment. Jim, those hosphtal proposals will affect your

constituents. I have spent 34 years in the National Health Servhce, I

have a good idea of what happens. I would remind you it is not `bout

buildings but about quality of service. I have got no problems with

the end these in actual fact possibly reducing. `` acciddnt and

emergency departments possibly reducing. Possibly being redirected

to a general unit. You get specialists. They are all bd linked

with individual parts of thd body. That is why you need these

specialist units. The changds have been proposed by the organisation

that now commissions health care in Greater Manchester. Here's what they

had to say. Standards will be raised. They will have that reliable

clear there. If they have a once in a lifetime specialist issued then

Kear will be available for them It is a dangerous thing we can figuring

be helped service. `` care. There are some hospitals where thd death

rates are much higher than others. That is because they do not have

specialist staff. That is why you are much better specialising in many

cases. We know the best place to go for cancer in the north`west and

probably the UK. If we can do the same for things like heart `nd

cardiovascular cases as well, if people know the hospital thdy go to

is absolutely the best and they will get the best Kear, you have to

ensure that. `` care. my guests. That is it for the Sunday

Politics in London. Back to Andrew. Will Mr Cameron stopped Mr Junker,

will make we are joined by the founder of the

Quilliam Association. If you read the Sunday Telegraph this morning,

Quilliam Association. If you read up again and again in different

situations in Birmingham. Is it a planned infiltration? In my

profession of you and planned infiltration? In my

profession of you having spent 3 years on the leadership of an

Islamist organisation, having been involved

Islamist organisation, having been and setting up schools, I am very

Islamist organisation, having been certain is a deliberate plan to

influence the students of this country with a medieval

interpretation of my own faith to bring about a medieval, conservative

view, and enforce things like segregation on boys and girls within

our public institutions. With these things be acceptable if they were

explicitly they schools? If they were state. We had state Anglican

faith schools. We have state Catholic faith schools as well.

Would it be acceptable if these were state Islamic schools? That is a

policy question. I am not generally in favour. I would believe in this

establishment. I am not a fan of faith schools. I do think the

solution is to ban them. I do think these schools should start working

out with an engaging with the wider communities and not being insular

and looking inwards. It is very important. The Ofsted report is

coming out tomorrow. We have already had a taste about what it is saying

about some of the schools. Is it a serious problem? It is a very

serious problem. It comes from the segregation of children into

intensely populated areas where everyone is Muslim virtually. You

have to have a system of spreading children between schools. It very

often happens, even with a secular school like this. Nearby Catholic or

Church of England schools become like-for-like schools and that

leaves the rest of the state schools to become all of one faith. I think

all of the parties are being quite hypocritical about the profound

problem of continuing to have faith schools. You have Orthodox Jewish

schools with extraordinary dogma being taught. Indeed very strict

Catholic schools with amazing dogma being taught. To somehow only get

worried when it is Islamic, when it is Muslim schools, becomes a

problem. You have to look at the whole issue and said the state

should simply withdraw from the business of faith education. Like

France? Yes, a secular school. The overall government policy is to take

power away. The dilemma with that is that it comes with dangers. Some

schools will be incompetent and some schools will be more than

incompetent, they will be maligned in some respects. The one bit of

this policy which has never been entirely squared is how do you

devolve and retain a basic minimum of educational standards and

behavioural standards while doing it? There is an even deeper quandary

for Britain. We have prided ourselves on allowing radical views

that stop short of violence. We took on Karl Marx and the rest of Europe

would not have him. The rest of Europe could not believe how

tolerably well of radical preachers in the 1990s. Do we stick with that

view? The risks were greater than they were 100 years ago. We do

expect, whatever peoples faith, that our children, at the expense of the

taxpayer, are educated, not instructed, not indoctrinated,

educated. We do expect that and also that boys and girls are treated

equally. One of the things the board in Birmingham will be looking at

which has Andrew Mitchell on it the former development Secretary,

because he is a Birmingham MP full Sutton, they are really concerned

about whether the girls are being treated as second-class citizens.

There has been a lot of work done on empowerment of girls. Shirley

Williams made the point that what Michael Gove has done by creating

free schools and academies is undermined the work of local

education authorities. They think they are traditional bodies which

are not open to reform. One school in Birmingham which is accused of

being in trouble is a local education school. They cannot have

the other side. Under Michael Gove, they are answerable to the Secretary

of State. It is down to Ofsted. Ofsted is giving the schools, not

that long ago, outstanding marks. There are big questions about the

oversight of schools. Tristan Hunt was trying to answer that point By

tapping it cannot all have gone pear shaped in two years. How do you

think that will play out? -- it cannot have gone pear shaped. The

story was broken in February. It will keep playing out. The report

that was due out Ofsted is tomorrow or Monday. Then there is the other

report that will look into wider questions, that will come out in

July, I think. We are expecting two points. -- reports. We have to look

at questions of Ofsted and other institutions in our society, even

government departments, where idea of taxing non-violent extremism

became a too boot in this country. -- a taboo. They must be rebuffed

the challenge, as we would expect racism to be challenged. In the

argument between Michael Gove and Theresa May, where do you side? They

should be challenged openly and robust leap by civilian society It

was settled by the Prime Minister and is government policy. I had a

hand in advising or consulting. I think Fiona Cunningham was forced to

resign because what she did violates official government policy. It just

has not been implemented yet. Will Mr Cameron succeed with Juncke?

You'll agree he have to decide whether he will spirit at stopping

him or accepting him as commission president and ask in return for a

massive commission portfolio for Britain, something like the internal

market, which they missed out on last time. It is a diplomatic

decision he have to make. It is too late for that he is into deep. If he

takes over the job, Cameron is left with egg on its face. From the

beginning, he did not have his voice with the weight of the British

Conservative Party, with ankle and Arkle, the rest of them. He is

reaping -- Angela Merkel, the rest of them. He is reaping that reward.

There is a lot of support within Europe. In Germany, there was a lot

of opposition to David Cameron getting his way. I know him from

Brussels. He is entertaining, you go to dinner with him and he smokes and

drinks. He is entertaining but he is the most awful person you could

think of having trying to sort of symbolise a new European Union. I

remember I was there join the Luxembourg presidency in 2005 when

the voters in France and the Netherlands voted no to the European

constitution, what was his response to that? Let's carry on with the

ratification process of this treaty that has been comprehensively

rejected by voters. He did not say the final bit of that sentence. You

can see why Eurosceptics want him. He has blown a raspy at all the

people who have protested at the elections with the way the European

Union is going. -- blown a Rasberry. This is your most popular... What

has come in most recently is doing really well. This is yours. There we

go. Cheers! By our people so cynical? They always go for a drink

at 11am and they pull their own pipes. I see them every day. -- pts.

Is there anything Mr Clegg can do is to mark the idea is to define

clearly a liberal brand, or at least I hope it is. It is not good enough

for us to say the Liberal Democrats challenge the Tories on this, on the

fairer society, and challenge the Labour Party on a strong economy. We

need to define what we stand for. That is what I call a liberal brand,

assertive liberalism. I have been there myself and I think that is

what he will be speaking about. Standing up for liberal values, to

finding -- defining what they are. Disestablishment in getting younger

people re-engage with politics. The overwhelming number are actually

liberal. We only have about 20 seconds. I suggest to you it is too

late. Sign up with the one principle on which he stood is Europe. -- the

one principle on which he stood if Europe. That is why he has been

doing so badly. He cannot get out of the hole he is in. If you fight

three general elections to the left of Labour and on the third when you

are in coalition with the Tories, you have got a problem. I will be

back next week. Remember if it is Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics.

What's the hardest thing about being a foster parent?

You're constantly trying to build the elusive trust.

It's like a big old question mark in your heart.