04/03/2018 Sunday Politics Northern Ireland


Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS


04/03/2018

Mark Carruthers with the latest political news, interviews and debate.


Similar Content

Browse content similar to 04/03/2018. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

Morning, everyone, and welcome

to the Sunday Politics.

0:00:370:00:38

I'm Sarah Smith.

0:00:380:00:40

And this is the programme that

will provide your essential briefing

0:00:400:00:42

on everything that's moving

and shaking in the

0:00:420:00:44

world of politics.

0:00:440:00:46

Theresa May's big Brexit speech

appears to have done the impossible

0:00:460:00:52

and united both sides

of her party for the time being

0:00:520:00:54

but is the devil in the detail?

0:00:540:00:56

We'll get the verdicts of former

Tory leader and Brexit supporter

0:00:560:01:00

Lord Howard and leading backbencher

and Remain campaigner Nicky Morgan,

0:01:000:01:03

and ask if they can

really both be happy.

0:01:030:01:07

Away from Brexit, the Government yet

again promises to take on the Nimbys

0:01:070:01:13

and build more houses

where we need them most.

0:01:130:01:16

And coming up here:

0:01:160:01:17

The Prime Minister has put are some

meat on the bones of how to solve

0:01:170:01:20

the problem of the Irish

border, but not everyone

0:01:200:01:22

is happy with her plans.

0:01:220:01:25

All that coming up in the programme.

0:01:340:01:39

And with me today, I've got three

hardy souls who've struggled

0:01:390:01:43

through the harsh conditions

to help me to make sense of all

0:01:430:01:46

the big stories - Isabel Oakeshott,

Steve Richards and Anushka Asthana.

0:01:460:01:48

Well, it was as week where politics

was often given second billing

0:01:480:01:51

to the weather, with people up

and down the country battling

0:01:510:01:54

the Beast from the East.

0:01:540:01:55

But snow or not, Theresa May had her

crucial Brexit speech to give,

0:01:550:01:58

and she had a few big beasts herself

to contend with.

0:01:580:02:06

Forget the weather, the UK faced

a Brexit blizzard this week.

0:02:080:02:12

On Monday, Jeremy Corbyn offered up

a clear dividing line between Labour

0:02:120:02:15

and the Conservatives.

0:02:150:02:16

Labour would keep Britain

in a customs union with the EU.

0:02:160:02:24

Labour would seek to negotiate

a new, comprehensive UK EU customs

0:02:250:02:27

union to ensure there are no

tariffs with Europe.

0:02:270:02:30

On Tuesday, international

trade secretary Liam Fox

0:02:300:02:32

immediately hit back.

0:02:320:02:33

It would be a complete sell-out

of Britain's national interest

0:02:330:02:35

and a betrayal of the voters

in the referendum.

0:02:350:02:40

But his speech was overshadowed

by a warning shot from the former

0:02:400:02:45

boss of his own department -

Sir Martin Donnelly said leaving

0:02:450:02:47

the single market and the customs

union would risk the UK

0:02:470:02:50

going from feast to famine.

0:02:500:02:51

It's like giving up a three course

meal for a packet of crisps.

0:02:510:02:55

Also on Tuesday, Foreign Secretary

Boris Johnson took to the radio

0:02:550:02:58

waves to try to ease tensions

on Northern Ireland after Brexit.

0:02:580:03:02

He wasn't entirely persuasive.

0:03:020:03:04

There's no border between

Camden and Westminster.

0:03:040:03:07

You can't compare two boroughs

of London with the kind

0:03:070:03:12

of difference in the arrangements

that would be in place after Brexit

0:03:120:03:14

between the UK and the EU.

0:03:140:03:16

I think it's a very

relevant comparison.

0:03:160:03:20

On Wednesday, former

Prime Minister Sir John Major said

0:03:200:03:22

MPs should be given a free vote

on the final Brexit deal.

0:03:220:03:26

So let Parliament decide or put

the issue back to the people.

0:03:260:03:34

And the EU Commission published

the first legal draft

0:03:370:03:39

of the UK's exit treaty.

0:03:390:03:40

The proposals were controversial.

0:03:400:03:41

To avoid a hard border,

Northern Ireland must stay

0:03:410:03:43

in the customs union

if all else fails.

0:03:430:03:46

Theresa May was having none of it.

0:03:460:03:50

No UK Prime Minister

could ever agree to it.

0:03:500:03:55

On Thursday, diplomatic niceties

with the European Council

0:03:550:03:59

President Donald Tusk,

as he got a preview of the Prime

0:03:590:04:01

Minister's big Brexit speech.

0:04:010:04:05

But the real test would come later,

when she would need a lot

0:04:050:04:09

of grit to keep all members

of her own party onside.

0:04:090:04:14

The big day arrived,

and with it some hard truths.

0:04:140:04:16

We are leaving the single market.

0:04:160:04:18

Life is going to be different.

0:04:180:04:19

In certain ways, our access to each

other's markets will be

0:04:190:04:22

less than it is now.

0:04:220:04:23

Even after we have

left the jurisdiction

0:04:230:04:25

of the European Court of Justice,

EU law and the decisions of the ECJ

0:04:250:04:28

will continue to affect us.

0:04:280:04:34

This was also a pitch

for a pick and mix Brexit.

0:04:340:04:37

She said all EU trade deals

are tailor-made and what Britain

0:04:370:04:39

wants is no different.

0:04:390:04:41

If this is cherry picking,

then every trade arrangement

0:04:410:04:43

is cherry picking.

0:04:430:04:47

He was happy, and so was he.

0:04:470:04:50

Despite being stranded

and left out in the cold.

0:04:500:04:54

So, has the Prime Minister managed

to thaw the tensions

0:04:540:04:57

between her Cabinet on Brexit?

0:04:570:04:58

Time will tell.

0:04:580:05:04

There is more than enough to chew

over with our expert panel who will

0:05:040:05:09

tell us what's been going on behind

the scenes this week. Anushka, we

0:05:090:05:16

asked the question, has she achieved

the impossible and United warring

0:05:160:05:21

factions of the Conservative Party

over Brexit? It looks that way, will

0:05:210:05:26

it stay that way?

It is impressive

politically that your guests will

0:05:260:05:31

both have some praise for the speech

but it doesn't mean they agree with

0:05:310:05:34

each other when it comes to Brexit.

I'm sure there's a lot they continue

0:05:340:05:38

to disagree about. She managed to do

that by doubling down on the red

0:05:380:05:44

lines she already had but saying

beyond that we will try to get as

0:05:440:05:47

close as we can to the EU. I don't

think the Brexiteers are totally

0:05:470:05:53

happy, they see this as a staging

post and happy that what she said

0:05:530:05:57

future parliaments can change it.

She has done a magic trick now but

0:05:570:06:02

trouble ahead still.

Isabel, a lot

of it was how in the immediate

0:06:020:06:06

future we will stay tangibly similar

to EU rules and regulations, that

0:06:060:06:12

won't hold with the Brexiteer crowd,

will it?

Only an idiot would predict

0:06:120:06:17

peace and harmony within the Tory

party for more than a few days.

0:06:170:06:25

party for more than a few days. I

think they recognise the immense

0:06:280:06:31

discipline the Prime Minister

injected into the speech, in some

0:06:310:06:34

ways that means bits of it don't

please everybody. There was

0:06:340:06:38

frustration at the way she handled

some of the questions afterwards.

0:06:380:06:42

Some would have liked her, for

example Nigel Farage, outside of the

0:06:420:06:47

party of course, would have liked

her to be more explicit that no deal

0:06:470:06:51

remains an option. On the other

hand, had she said that, that is

0:06:510:06:56

provocative. I think Tory MPs found

she struck a balance and a great

0:06:560:07:02

feeling of positivity this weekend,

maybe not next.

Steve, did it tell

0:07:020:07:08

us a huge amount about what Brexit

deal might look like? Or is Theresa

0:07:080:07:13

May sitting on the fence about what

the future deal will be?

I don't

0:07:130:07:18

think she is sitting on the fence.

She gave a clear idea of what she

0:07:180:07:23

envisages it to be. Watching it, and

reading it several times, I have

0:07:230:07:29

reached the conclusion that she is

the only person that can lead this

0:07:290:07:32

party.

0:07:320:07:42

You have Michael Howard on in a

minute, you knows how difficult it

0:07:430:07:46

is to do. She can do it and I think

they would be daft to get rid of

0:07:460:07:49

her. However, having read the

speech, it is full of unexploded

0:07:490:07:52

bombs metaphorically speaking. Like

the budgets that go down well on the

0:07:520:07:54

day and then turn out to have hidden

bombs, I think this one does. In her

0:07:540:07:59

admission we are giving up things,

we won't have the same market

0:07:590:08:04

access, in saying we have given up

passporting for the financial

0:08:040:08:08

services already. She did it to show

we weren't having our cake and

0:08:080:08:12

eating it, she was honest, but it is

depressing to have that candour

0:08:120:08:17

explained so clearly. And in

explaining we will be fully aligned

0:08:170:08:21

with the EU in many ways but have

the right to diverged even if it is

0:08:210:08:28

against our interest. And the all of

this, to have the right to diverge

0:08:280:08:32

at a future date seems fraught with

difficulty. I see problems down

0:08:320:08:37

road.

Steve's point about only this

Prime Minister can lead the party is

0:08:370:08:44

a very astute one and that's what

I'm picking up this weekend, even

0:08:440:08:47

from those who have been her

harshest critics, at her ability not

0:08:470:08:53

to say too much which makes her seem

rather boring at times is precisely

0:08:530:08:56

the reason she can manage these

delicate factions. I definitely feel

0:08:560:09:02

time has run out now for those who

would like to have seen her gone

0:09:020:09:06

well before Brexit next year. I feel

that has evaporated milk. We might

0:09:060:09:12

be in a different place in a few

months but I would suspect not.

0:09:120:09:17

Anushka bitchy answer the question

about the border between the

0:09:170:09:22

Republic and Northern Ireland? Simon

Coveney said he's not sure the EU

0:09:220:09:30

can support the plan she came up

with.

Both sides can smile and say

0:09:300:09:34

they don't want a border, the

question is how you achieve that.

0:09:340:09:38

The Government have put forward

these options, a customs partnership

0:09:380:09:43

which is a slightly weird system

under which there would be checks on

0:09:430:09:47

the UK border that would then be

acceptable for the rest of the EU.

0:09:470:09:50

The problem is the rest of the EU

have suggested that won't be

0:09:500:09:55

acceptable to them, and even very

senior figures in Government around

0:09:550:09:58

the Cabinet table have told me they

think it is a completely unrealistic

0:09:580:10:03

option. The second option is to use

technology to make it flow freely,

0:10:030:10:08

perhaps not quite as Boris

0:10:080:10:15

perhaps not quite as Boris Johnson

was suggesting, it happens in the

0:10:150:10:16

congestion charge in London. He was

slightly mocked for those comments,

0:10:160:10:18

but can there be a way to make it

softer in that way? Perhaps there

0:10:180:10:22

can but there is no evidence you

would end up with no border. Then

0:10:220:10:26

there's that tricky situation of the

EU saying the backstop is Northern

0:10:260:10:30

Ireland stays in the customs union,

and the Prime Minister says that is

0:10:300:10:35

unacceptable.

Thank you for that,

stay with us.

0:10:350:10:40

Theresa May was on the

Andrew Marr Show this

0:10:400:10:42

morning, and she was asked how

the UK's rules and regulations

0:10:420:10:45

might move away from

the EU's in the future.

0:10:450:10:47

Parliament will be able to take

decisions about the rules that

0:10:470:10:55

are set, so in the circumstances

in which the EU

0:10:590:11:01

change a particular rule,

there'd be a decision

0:11:010:11:03

for us to take.

0:11:030:11:04

Did we accept it

in the future or not?

0:11:040:11:07

But if we didn't accept it,

there'd be an arbitration mechanism,

0:11:070:11:09

an independent arbitration

mechanism, so people

0:11:090:11:10

would look at it and say,

actually, you know what,

0:11:100:11:13

if the UK doesn't accept that,

does it make any difference

0:11:130:11:15

to the trading relationship?

0:11:150:11:16

And they might say no, it doesn't,

so there's no consequence.

0:11:160:11:19

They might say yes, it does,

and so there would be a consequence.

0:11:190:11:22

So you're saying we might

lose market access -

0:11:220:11:24

the more we diverge,

the more market access

0:11:240:11:26

we might lose in the future.

0:11:260:11:28

There'd be a decision to be taken.

0:11:280:11:29

Joining me now from

Loughborough is the former

0:11:290:11:31

Education Secretary Nicky Morgan,

who put her name down on a Commons

0:11:310:11:34

amendment that calls for the UK

to participate in a customs union

0:11:340:11:37

with the EU after Brexit.

0:11:370:11:39

Good morning. So you heard the Prime

Minister ruling out a customs union

0:11:390:11:47

which is what you say you want, and

they will be less access to EU

0:11:470:11:52

markets in future, you cannot be

very happy with this speech, can

0:11:520:11:57

you?

I thought it was a very

realistic speech that set out the

0:11:570:12:01

compromises and hard facts we have

to face, and I think it was a

0:12:010:12:06

welcome dose of realism. That's why

I think it has been welcomed from

0:12:060:12:09

people on all sides of the debate

because we can get away from

0:12:090:12:12

pretending things will stay the

same, that we can have the same

0:12:120:12:16

benefits, and be honest with

ourselves and our constituents about

0:12:160:12:21

what that means. The reason MPs put

down amendments is to get ministers

0:12:210:12:30

to explain their position is more

fully and that's what we began to

0:12:300:12:33

see in the Prime Minister's speech

on this issue of the border between

0:12:330:12:38

Northern Ireland, the Republic of

Ireland on Friday. The Prime

0:12:380:12:42

Minister could not have been more

clear this morning and last week

0:12:420:12:45

that she does not want to see a hard

border between them, and that's

0:12:450:12:49

where we are as well. I think there

are more discussions to come about

0:12:490:12:54

the two options, as Anushka was

setting out, that the Prime Minister

0:12:540:13:00

outlined, and we will have to see

what happens when the bill comes

0:13:000:13:03

back to the House of Commons.

Your

amendment wasn't just about Northern

0:13:030:13:06

Ireland, it said you want the UK to

stay in the customs union with the

0:13:060:13:12

EU. Now you say you want to talk to

the Prime Minister about this. Talk

0:13:120:13:16

about what? We are either in the

customs union or knots and her

0:13:160:13:21

speech made it clear she didn't want

a customs union.

I can speak for

0:13:210:13:27

myself and my colleagues, many of

whom put their name down, it was

0:13:270:13:31

about the Irish border issue because

many of us got to the stage of

0:13:310:13:35

thinking how can this be resolved

without being in a customs union. I

0:13:350:13:41

think many of us don't care what it

is called, it's a question of what

0:13:410:13:45

it does. Does it avoid a hard border

and small traders having to make

0:13:450:13:50

declarations each time they crossed

the border? I was a Treasury duties

0:13:500:13:57

minister, I visited the Irish border

and it is 300 miles of incredibly

0:13:570:14:00

porous countryside basically. People

are crossing it everyday for work,

0:14:000:14:05

for trading, and it's not just about

the economics, it's about the

0:14:050:14:10

cultural and political significance

of not a hard border.

The Irish

0:14:100:14:19

government and Irish Foreign

Minister Simon Coveney were saying

0:14:190:14:21

this morning he didn't think EU

would accept this. Theresa May said

0:14:210:14:25

a long she doesn't want a hard

border, just saying that doesn't

0:14:250:14:28

mean it won't happen and the EU

don't seem satisfied with what she

0:14:280:14:33

laid out as a possible solution.

The

first point is, as I said in a tweet

0:14:330:14:39

on Friday, the EU cannot say and

Simon Coveney recognise that this

0:14:390:14:44

morning, the EU cannot say it

doesn't know what the UK Government

0:14:440:14:48

wants. Simon Coveney also agreed, as

the Prime Minister rightly set out,

0:14:480:14:55

this is a problem that has been

created by Brexit and it's up to the

0:14:550:14:58

UK Government, the EU and Irish

government to work together to find

0:14:580:15:02

a solution. I think it is right that

talks will continue in one of those

0:15:020:15:06

areas where it is best for the Irish

government and UK Government to be

0:15:060:15:10

talking directly because at the

moment what's been remarkable is how

0:15:100:15:15

cohesive the 27 have been in

negotiating through the commission

0:15:150:15:18

but there may be ways to speed up

discussions, particularly on the

0:15:180:15:25

Irish border issue. What we saw on

Friday is the Prime Minister saying

0:15:250:15:28

there's difficult things ahead.

People won't remember ultimately the

0:15:280:15:31

negotiations, they will remember the

enduring deal that's struck, that

0:15:310:15:36

puts livelihoods and economic

security first.

0:15:360:15:41

One of the hard fact is that she

laid out is we will have less access

0:15:410:15:46

to EU markets. That is one of the

things that you as a Remainer have

0:15:460:15:49

been worried about. Maybe she is

being pragmatic and you're welcome

0:15:490:15:53

that, but is that pragmatism not

admitting were going to be worse off

0:15:530:15:56

in future as a result of this?

I

think it probably is. Actually,

0:15:560:16:03

while the speech was well come in

its towns, it did set out some of

0:16:030:16:08

these hard truths. Some people have

said, nothing will change, it will

0:16:080:16:12

have exactly the same benefits but

that is not the case. I am chair of

0:16:120:16:16

the Treasury Select Committee, we

look at financial services. That

0:16:160:16:21

industry understands that things are

going to change. The Prime Minister

0:16:210:16:25

was clear, no more passporting.

People have reconciled themselves to

0:16:250:16:30

this in the city. What next? The

Prime Minister is talking about

0:16:300:16:35

mutual recognition of regulations,

that is the way to go, that is

0:16:350:16:40

achievable, but this is the start of

negotiations and it is a long way to

0:16:400:16:43

go. At least we are now on the

starting blocks. Your right to say

0:16:430:16:49

that many of us have been concerned

about the prosperity and livelihoods

0:16:490:16:54

of people in our constituencies and

our businesses. We welcome this

0:16:540:16:57

speech but we will continue to watch

out for any drifting backwards

0:16:570:17:01

towards some kind of idea logically

driven hard Brexit. That does not

0:17:010:17:07

benefit anybody. As the Prime

Minister said on Friday, reverting

0:17:070:17:11

to WTO is not a good outcome that

will benefit people in this country.

0:17:110:17:17

The Prime Minister made clear that

the UK after Brexit can choose to

0:17:170:17:20

stay aligned with the rules and

regulations of the EU or future

0:17:200:17:24

parliaments to choose to diverged.

In those circumstances you will be

0:17:240:17:28

fighting every step of the week to

try to stay aligned with the EU, I

0:17:280:17:33

take it?

Not necessarily. That was a

really well come statement from the

0:17:330:17:38

Prime Minister. It is for the

sovereign parliament to be making

0:17:380:17:41

these decisions in future, which is

why we had the debate over the

0:17:410:17:45

amendment in December because

ultimately it should be sovereign

0:17:450:17:49

Parliament that makes these key

decisions in the future. In terms of

0:17:490:17:54

divergences regulation, there may

well be good arguments in the future

0:17:540:17:57

by businesses and industry say, we

do not need to be aligned with that

0:17:570:18:02

regulation, because there is a

higher international standard that

0:18:020:18:05

we can all get around and following

that will benefit our businesses.

0:18:050:18:09

The point is, at the moment,

Parliament will take decisions about

0:18:090:18:14

things on the basis of listening to

constituents, and that is what will

0:18:140:18:19

happen in the future. That is

welcome. Financial services, that is

0:18:190:18:23

the message we're getting by, there

are some international standards,

0:18:230:18:27

which is what business already

comply with, higher standards than

0:18:270:18:32

the EU, and that is what businesses

want to on complying with.

Nicky

0:18:320:18:37

Morgan, thank you for talking to us.

0:18:370:18:39

Listening to that is the former

Conservative leader Lord Howard,

0:18:390:18:41

who campaigned for Britain

to leave the EU.

0:18:410:18:43

You were nodding away in agreement

with Nicky Morgan all the way

0:18:430:18:47

through that interview. Not

something we thought we were going

0:18:470:18:50

to see happen in the studio.

You

agree with her? I agree with very

0:18:500:18:54

much of what she said and I am

delighted to be able to agree with

0:18:540:18:58

her. Can I just say this about the

speech on Friday, I thought it

0:18:580:19:03

should the Prime Minister at her

best, cam, patient, disciplined.

0:19:030:19:08

That is exactly the kind of approach

we need in these negotiations. I

0:19:080:19:14

think Steve Richards was right when

he said she is the only person who

0:19:140:19:18

can lead the country through these

negotiations, and she showed her

0:19:180:19:22

qualities on Friday, and I think it

was an excellent speech, and it is

0:19:220:19:29

something, of course it is a good

thing from my point of view that it

0:19:290:19:33

seems to have united the

Conservative Party, but more

0:19:330:19:36

importantly, I think it has united

the country. I think everyone in the

0:19:360:19:41

country, except perhaps those few

people are neither extreme, can

0:19:410:19:46

rally round. People like John Major

and Tony Blair? I fear that on this

0:19:460:19:52

issue John Major and Tony Blair are

to make love the people who have

0:19:520:19:55

never been able to reconcile

themselves to the results of the

0:19:550:19:59

referendum. I think a large majority

of people in the country, even of

0:19:590:20:04

those who voted Remain, they now

say, let's get on with it and see

0:20:040:20:09

what we can get out of these

negotiations. Nicky Morgan was

0:20:090:20:13

absolutely right when she said that

in years to come people will not be

0:20:130:20:17

looking back at the negotiations.

They will be looking back at the

0:20:170:20:21

outcome.

The negotiations matter

because they determine the outcome.

0:20:210:20:25

You like the tone of the speech.

When you look at the detail, does it

0:20:250:20:30

really amounted taking back control

when the Prime Minister says the UK

0:20:300:20:33

will need to make a strong

commitment that regulatory standards

0:20:330:20:37

will remain as high as the EU and in

practice they will remain similar in

0:20:370:20:41

the future?

That is not what you

campaign for. In many respects they

0:20:410:20:46

will be similar. As the Prime

Minister said this morning, on the

0:20:460:20:49

Andrew Marr programme, these

regulations are not EU regulations,

0:20:490:20:55

the international regulations. The

crucial thing is that our sovereign

0:20:550:21:01

parliament, in future, will be able

to decide whether we remain in a

0:21:010:21:05

layman, which in many cases would be

a sensible thing to do, or whether

0:21:050:21:10

we diverged, which could also be

sensible. That is what taking back

0:21:100:21:14

control means.

The sovereign

parliament will decide. Look at

0:21:140:21:18

where we do remain in alignment and

a hard fact that Theresa May picked

0:21:180:21:22

out there, in order to maintain

access we may have to maintain a

0:21:220:21:26

layman. The EU will change their

rules over the next few deals --

0:21:260:21:30

over the next few years. We will end

up having to mirror rules that we

0:21:300:21:34

had no say at all in making if we

want to maintain access.

That is not

0:21:340:21:39

control. We will be able to decide.

In some cases it may be sensible to

0:21:390:21:45

change rules to remain in alignment

with the European Union's rules but

0:21:450:21:48

in other cases it will not be, and

we will be able to decide. That is

0:21:480:21:55

what taking back control means.

You're perfectly happy with

0:21:550:21:58

associated membership of some of the

EU agencies, medicine, chemicals,

0:21:580:22:03

the aviation safety agency, and with

paying a fee to be -- to be a

0:22:030:22:11

member. Very sensible. A year ago

you would not have been telling us

0:22:110:22:15

that you wanted to stay a member of

any of these agents is a tall.

You

0:22:150:22:21

never ask me. You would have been

surprised by the answer. These are

0:22:210:22:25

sensible, practical arrangements

that we benefit from, and the EU

0:22:250:22:28

benefits.

It is sensible. We were

promised famously by David Davis

0:22:280:22:33

that we would have the exact same

benefits of being in the customs

0:22:330:22:37

union and the single market after

Brexit. The Prime Minister herself

0:22:370:22:42

said something similar. Now she's

telling us we will have less access.

0:22:420:22:47

When people were told we could leave

the EU and maintain the same

0:22:470:22:51

benefits, were they being lied to?

Not at all. I think it is a

0:22:510:22:55

consequence of what the Prime

Minister has said, that in all

0:22:550:22:59

important respects, we will have the

access we need. There may be some

0:22:590:23:03

areas where that will not be the

case, but she dealt with the most

0:23:030:23:07

important aspect in her speech on

Friday and should have in the most

0:23:070:23:10

important areas we will be able to

have access. I think that will be

0:23:100:23:16

the outcome. It is in the interests

of the European Union as well as

0:23:160:23:19

ourselves that that should be so.

They want access to our large

0:23:190:23:24

market. We are one of the six

biggest economies in the world. They

0:23:240:23:28

want access to our markets. It will

be on both our interest to reach

0:23:280:23:32

that sort of agreement.

Both wings

of the Tory party might be happy

0:23:320:23:37

with this. The speech was received

less enthusiastically in Brussels.

0:23:370:23:41

The EU will publish their draft

guidelines on how they see a future

0:23:410:23:45

deal on Tuesday. If they do not

accept the approach that Theresa May

0:23:450:23:49

has laid out, what should she do

next?

Let's concentrate on the

0:23:490:23:54

positives. We are in a negotiation.

There will inevitably be posturing

0:23:540:23:59

by the European Union in the course

of these negotiations. That is what

0:23:590:24:03

negotiations always bring with them.

But I think, as I say, it is in both

0:24:030:24:09

our interest that we should have a

good deal. At the end of the day,

0:24:090:24:13

they want our money. They will not

get our money unless there is a good

0:24:130:24:18

deal.

It has been said that a trade

deal cannot be said by putting up a

0:24:180:24:23

few extra cherries in the Brexit

cake. This speech did not persuade

0:24:230:24:27

him that is a deal to be done.

He is

not in charge of the negotiations.

0:24:270:24:32

Michel Barnier did not seem terribly

impressed. Are they going to accept

0:24:320:24:39

the Prime Minister's view that you

can accept different access for

0:24:390:24:42

different sectors?

Let's wait and

see. Michel Barnier welcome the

0:24:420:24:47

speech. There is lots of posturing.

It is invading tress and hours to

0:24:470:24:51

arrive at a deal that is very

similar to that which the Prime

0:24:510:24:55

Minister set on Friday.

You're being

very positive about with the EU is

0:24:550:25:01

likely to do. They may well not do

that. Is there a point at which the

0:25:010:25:05

Prime Minister may be forced to walk

away because they will not meet

0:25:050:25:09

halfway?

I hope not but if you go

into any negotiations in, I want to

0:25:090:25:15

deal at any price, you will be taken

to the cleaners. That is true of

0:25:150:25:20

every negotiation. I agree with the

Prime Minister when she says that in

0:25:200:25:24

the ultimate circumstance, no deal

is better than a bad deal, but I do

0:25:240:25:27

not think we're going to have a bad

deal, I think we're going to have a

0:25:270:25:31

deal along the lines the Prime

Minister set out on Friday.

She said

0:25:310:25:34

we are going to have to compromise

and we are not

0:25:340:25:41

and we are not going to get what we

want. We will have to meet someone

0:25:410:25:44

in the middle on this and the

response from the EU has not been to

0:25:440:25:48

say, we agree, let's talk about

compromise, it has to -- it has been

0:25:480:25:50

to maintain a lot of their hard

lines about cherry picking.

That

0:25:500:25:54

will change. Their approach to the

negotiations on the first stage

0:25:540:25:57

changed. All sorts of figures were

bandied about about the money we

0:25:570:26:01

would have to pay and they bore no

reality to the ultimate outcome. You

0:26:010:26:06

have to take these initial

negotiating positions with a pinch

0:26:060:26:09

of salt.

When the EU was negotiating

with Greece during its financial

0:26:090:26:16

crisis, they were absolutely

insistent, they did not soften their

0:26:160:26:18

lines.

No disrespect to Greece, but

we are not Greece. The European

0:26:180:26:26

Union needs access to our markets.

The European Union needs our money.

0:26:260:26:31

The situation is very, very

different from that which happened

0:26:310:26:36

between the EU and Greece.

Lord

Howard, thank you for talking to us

0:26:360:26:40

this morning.

0:26:400:26:42

As we've heard, Jeremy Corbyn

made his own big speech on Brexit

0:26:420:26:45

earlier in the week and he backed

a customs union.

0:26:450:26:47

So how would it work?

0:26:470:26:48

With me from Salford

is the Shadow Communities

0:26:480:26:50

Secretary, Andrew Gwynne.

0:26:500:26:51

Thank you very much for coming in to

speak to us today. We have got to

0:26:510:26:56

make a very different approaches.

Jeremy Corbyn at the beginning of

0:26:560:26:59

the week saying he wanted to stay in

a customs union, Theresa May on

0:26:590:27:05

Friday pretty much ruling it out. Is

it not Theresa May who is being

0:27:050:27:10

honest with the voters by laying out

the hard fact, as she puts it, that

0:27:100:27:14

we will have to accept we have less

access to the EU market?

Absolutely

0:27:140:27:19

not. That we are leaving the

European Union is decided. We had a

0:27:190:27:24

referendum, but the Thames by which

we leave the European Union is what

0:27:240:27:28

the negotiations are all about and

the Labour Party has always said it

0:27:280:27:31

would seek to maintain the benefits

of a customs union. In doing that,

0:27:310:27:36

we have set out our proposals for

what we think that new arrangement

0:27:360:27:40

should be, I bespoke agreement

between the EU in the UK that would

0:27:400:27:47

maintain the benefits of tariff free

trade between the UK and the

0:27:470:27:50

European Union going forward. But

one in which we are equal partners,

0:27:500:27:55

so we have a say on those new trade

deals that are being made and a half

0:27:550:28:01

of the new arrangements between our

two trading blocs.

That has never

0:28:010:28:06

happened with any other country that

has entered into a customs union

0:28:060:28:10

with the EU. Why do you think they

would give us an equal say, one of

0:28:100:28:14

us against 27 of them, when it came

to a negotiating a trade deal with

0:28:140:28:19

someone else somewhere else in the

world?

The EU is different trading

0:28:190:28:22

arrangements with different

countries.

It does and none of them

0:28:220:28:26

have a say in outside trade deals.

The difference here, as Lord Howard

0:28:260:28:31

said, we are the largest economy the

world. The European Union has

0:28:310:28:37

important trading links with the

United Kingdom, it is a two-way

0:28:370:28:41

process, and therefore it is in both

of interest that we strike a deal

0:28:410:28:45

that benefits both of us.

I do not

know what is happening on this

0:28:450:28:49

programme. You are agreeing with

Laura Taarabt, he's agreeing with

0:28:490:28:53

Nicky Morgan. It is a very unusual

morning.

You're all in the same

0:28:530:28:58

side. The difference is the

Conservatives have ruled out a

0:28:580:29:02

customs union, and we are saying

that a customs union is vital, not

0:29:020:29:05

least that we can give real

assurances that the Good Friday

0:29:050:29:09

Agreement and our treaty obligations

in the Good Friday Agreement are not

0:29:090:29:13

torn up. We do not want to lose the

advantage is that we have seen of 20

0:29:130:29:17

years of peace between Northern

Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.

0:29:170:29:22

If the EU says, you can remain in a

customs union but you do not get a

0:29:220:29:26

large say in future trade deals with

countries outside of the EU and you

0:29:260:29:30

just have to accept what is

negotiated by the EU 27, would you

0:29:300:29:34

still want to be in that customs

union?

We would have to look at that

0:29:340:29:38

carefully. We want to be a rule

maker

0:29:380:29:45

maker and not a real taker. It is

hard to do that if you stay in a

0:29:450:29:49

customs union. Unless you have a new

arrangement whereby the United

0:29:490:29:51

Kingdom sits at the table when those

trade deals are being made. That is

0:29:510:29:54

the new arrangement that we seek to

make. We believe we would be in a

0:29:540:29:58

better position to make those

arrangements with the European Union

0:29:580:30:02

because we have approached the

Brexit negotiations in an entirely

0:30:020:30:06

different manner. We have said what

we would like to see in terms of

0:30:060:30:11

transitional arrangements, the

government subsequently followed on

0:30:110:30:13

a number of those issues, but all

along we have said that we want to

0:30:130:30:17

maintain the benefits of tariff free

custom free trade, and that is

0:30:170:30:21

absolutely crucial, not least for

the Northern Ireland issue.

One of

0:30:210:30:26

the things the Labour Party was

looking forward to have to Brexit,

0:30:260:30:30

and that Jeremy Corbyn has stressed,

was the freedom from state aid

0:30:300:30:34

rules, where the EU stops the UK

Government from giving financial

0:30:340:30:38

assistance to any particular sector

of industry. Theresa May spoke about

0:30:380:30:43

that on Friday and said it would be

necessary to sign up to the

0:30:430:30:46

directives on state aid and

procurement rules, to keep those EU

0:30:460:30:50

rules. Do you accept that will have

to happen?

0:30:500:30:57

No, and we have a different view

anyway. When it came to our

0:30:570:31:01

anyway. When it came to our

0:31:010:31:03

arguments the Government should step

anyway. When it came to our

0:31:030:31:04

arguments the Government should step

in to assist the steel industry in

0:31:040:31:06

Britain, the Government used these

0:31:060:31:08

in to assist the steel industry in

fallacies about state aid rules

0:31:080:31:11

in to assist the steel industry in

excuse themselves for not giving

0:31:110:31:11

adequate support to that industry.

We didn't believe in the

0:31:110:31:15

interpretation the Government

0:31:150:31:18

We didn't believe in the

because other European countries

0:31:180:31:19

have got round the so-called

0:31:190:31:21

because other European countries

aid rules. We have said as part of

0:31:210:31:24

our negotiations, that is a red line

for us. We would want to make sure

0:31:240:31:29

we could facilitate state aid in a

number of areas where

0:31:290:31:35

we could facilitate state aid in a

policies have been clearer about

0:31:350:31:39

we could facilitate state aid in a

is a red line, is

0:31:390:31:41

we could facilitate state aid in a

staying in the customs union,

0:31:410:31:43

we could facilitate state aid in a

have to make the choice? The EU

0:31:430:31:45

could say no customs union if you

insist on state aid.

We believe we

0:31:450:31:54

could get a bespoke arrangement for

a new customs relationship, a new

0:31:540:31:59

customs union.

I think there's a

name for that, isn't it called

0:31:590:32:04

cherry picking?

No because we

0:32:040:32:05

name for that, isn't it called

believe this is in the interests of

0:32:050:32:07

believe this is in the interests of

the UK and in the interests of the

0:32:070:32:11

European Union. 44% of our trade is

with the European Union, 53% of the

0:32:110:32:18

European Union. 44% of our trade is

EU's trade is with the UK so it is

0:32:180:32:19

in both our interests that we sort

this out and get the best deal not

0:32:190:32:27

in both our interests that we sort

for the European Union but for

0:32:270:32:30

in both our interests that we sort

Britain outside of the

0:32:300:32:30

in both our interests that we sort

Union.

You seem to be saying

0:32:300:32:32

in both our interests that we sort

Tory government are asking for the

0:32:320:32:34

in both our interests that we sort

impossible in their

0:32:340:32:35

in both our interests that we sort

won't get what they are

0:32:350:32:38

in both our interests that we sort

but somehow if there was a Labour

0:32:380:32:39

government negotiating this deal,

all doors would open and you would

0:32:390:32:44

government negotiating this deal,

be able to select which bit of the

0:32:440:32:45

government negotiating this deal,

customs union you did and didn't

0:32:450:32:46

like and could have a

0:32:460:32:50

customs union you did and didn't

that is not available for

0:32:500:32:51

customs union you did and didn't

reason to Theresa May.

They ruled

0:32:510:32:54

out a customs union, I think that is

out a customs union, I think that is

0:32:540:32:57

a bad decision because I believe a

customs union, negotiated between

0:32:570:33:02

the UK and the European Union 27 is

in the best interests of

0:33:020:33:08

the UK and the European Union 27 is

customs free tariff-free trade going

0:33:080:33:10

forward but also sorting out the

0:33:100:33:13

customs free tariff-free trade going

issue of the border between Ireland,

0:33:130:33:15

customs free tariff-free trade going

north and south.

Labour set out six

0:33:150:33:18

tests as to whether they

0:33:180:33:22

north and south.

Labour set out six

one of those was that it had to

0:33:220:33:25

north and south.

Labour set out six

deliver the same benefits we

0:33:250:33:26

north and south.

Labour set out six

from being in the single market and

0:33:260:33:28

customs union. That was a quote from

David Davis, but Theresa May has

0:33:280:33:33

David Davis, but Theresa May has

been clear we are not going to

0:33:330:33:35

David Davis, but Theresa May has

the same benefits. Does this mean

0:33:350:33:38

Labour under no circumstances will

be able to vote for any Brexit deal

0:33:380:33:44

that's been negotiated?

Let's see

that's been negotiated?

Let's see

0:33:440:33:45

what Brexit deal comes back

0:33:450:33:48

that's been negotiated?

Let's see

we have a hypothetical vote on this.

0:33:480:33:50

You don't think there's any

circumstances in which it could come

0:33:500:33:54

back...

I believe if the Government

wanted to enter into negotiations to

0:33:540:33:58

wanted to enter into negotiations to

do that, they could do that. The

0:33:580:34:01

fact the Prime Minister

0:34:010:34:04

do that, they could do that. The

is probably because they have ruled

0:34:040:34:07

do that, they could do that. The

out a customs union. We believe that

0:34:070:34:07

do that, they could do that. The

is the wrong decision, we believe

0:34:070:34:11

do that, they could do that. The

that arrangement is possible, but

0:34:110:34:12

let's see what the Government comes

back with and then we will decide

0:34:120:34:16

let's see what the Government comes

how we vote in parliament.

0:34:160:34:19

Parliament has got a meaningful vote

0:34:190:34:21

how we vote in parliament.

and that was something that had to

0:34:210:34:23

be secured through the parliamentary

processes. The Government weren't

0:34:230:34:27

going to give us that right

0:34:270:34:29

processes. The Government weren't

think it is right it is ultimately

0:34:290:34:33

Parliament that decides.

Thank

0:34:330:34:35

It's coming up to 11.40,

you're watching the Sunday Politics.

0:34:350:34:37

Still to come...

0:34:370:34:39

As the government promises to cut

red tape to get more houses built,

0:34:390:34:42

we'll ask the Cabinet Office

minister David Lidington

0:34:420:34:44

whether they're finally prepared

to take on the nimbys.

0:34:440:34:46

First though, it's

time for the Sunday Politics

0:34:460:34:48

where you are.

0:34:480:34:56

Hello and welcome

to Sunday Politics.

0:34:560:34:57

A major speech on Brexit

by the Prime Minister,

0:34:570:35:01

but did it offer any new ideas

to help reach agreement?

0:35:010:35:04

We'll hear from Sinn Fein -

which claims there wasn't one

0:35:040:35:07

specific solution to help prevent

a hard border -

0:35:070:35:09

and the Ulster Unionists,

who say the principle

0:35:090:35:11

of consent cannot be ignored.

0:35:110:35:13

And with their thoughts

on that and more, my guests

0:35:130:35:15

of the day are commentators

0:35:150:35:17

Brian Feeney and Felicity Huston.

0:35:170:35:18

It was billed as a speech

which would shed more detail

0:35:250:35:28

on the sort of trading relationship

Theresa May wants to see after

0:35:280:35:31

the UK's left the European Union.

0:35:310:35:34

She restated her commitment

to avoiding a hard border,

0:35:340:35:36

but gave no new detail on how

that is to be achieved.

0:35:360:35:39

We'll hear what the Ulster

Unionist MEP Jim Nicholson

0:35:390:35:42

and Sinn Fein's Martina Anderson

make of it in just a moment,

0:35:420:35:45

but first, here are the Prime

Minister and the Tanaiste,

0:35:450:35:48

Simon Coveney, speaking

on the Andrew Marr show earlier.

0:35:480:35:51

As ever, the border proved

to be the big issue.

0:35:510:35:59

And there are various elements of

ensuring we don't have a hard

0:35:590:36:02

border. After that is the customs

arrangements, after that is the

0:36:020:36:06

standards we abide by. What've sing

on standards is we will be looking

0:36:060:36:14

to say where does it make sense any

practical sense, it's important for

0:36:140:36:20

people and their prosperity, where

does it make sense for us to say we

0:36:200:36:24

will abide by these items? This is

important, because we talk about EU

0:36:240:36:31

standards, but often what we have

talked about aren't EU standards,

0:36:310:36:36

they are international standards.

Often these are developed in an

0:36:360:36:40

international markets, so what we

would be doing is making sure we are

0:36:400:36:44

meeting standards that enable us to

trade elsewhere.

And do you think

0:36:440:36:49

the borderline between Islington and

Camden as a useful comparison?

I

0:36:490:36:54

think the Irish border is something

to which we are all committed. All

0:36:540:36:58

the parties in Northern Ireland and

ourselves are committed to make sure

0:36:580:37:04

there is no hard border. I am

pleased the commission and the

0:37:040:37:08

governments will be able to sit down

and see how the proposals we put

0:37:080:37:14

forward will work.

Boris Johnson

thinks might have to be a hard

0:37:140:37:19

border.

No, Boris Johnson is clear

there will not be a hard border.

0:37:190:37:26

There will be no hard border between

Northern Ireland and Ireland. We

0:37:260:37:30

have proposals as to how we can

achieve that, we will now be able to

0:37:300:37:34

sit down and talk with others to how

we do that. That is back my message

0:37:340:37:38

in this speech overall, we're set

out our ideas for the future on this

0:37:380:37:45

ambitious relationship, let's get on

and start the negotiation.

This was

0:37:450:37:52

the mistake made in Britain all the

time, I think, when someone

0:37:520:37:56

definitively says something will be

the case from the British

0:37:560:38:00

governments, people will assume that

is the negotiated outcome. Of

0:38:000:38:03

course, it's not. I'm not sure the

European Union will be able to spot

0:38:030:38:08

the situation whereby 80% of

companies which trades across the

0:38:080:38:17

border will protect the integrity of

the European single market. While of

0:38:170:38:24

course we will explore and look at

all at the proposed British

0:38:240:38:28

solutions, there are essentially a

starting point in negotiations, as

0:38:280:38:31

opposed to an end point. Our

responsibility and Ireland is to

0:38:310:38:35

work with Britain. We will work

positively with Britain to explore

0:38:350:38:45

solutions, but if we can't agree on

solutions, what will happen is the

0:38:450:38:49

backstop, a commitment by the

British Government to rent an full

0:38:490:38:53

alignment with the

0:38:530:38:58

alignment with the rules and customs

of the single market.

0:38:590:39:01

Theresa May and Simon Coveney.

0:39:010:39:02

And joining me now from Brussels

is Sinn Fein's Martina Anderson.

0:39:020:39:05

With me in studio is the Ulster

Unionist MEP, Jim Nicholson.

0:39:050:39:07

Martina, it do you welcome the clear

change in tone from Theresa May's

0:39:070:39:12

speech, clearly acknowledging the

need to find a solution to the

0:39:120:39:21

border situation?

I don't know what

speech you were listening to,

0:39:210:39:26

because tone is not what we were

looking for. We needed precise

0:39:260:39:30

proposals, and we didn't get that.

Theresa May signed up on the 8th of

0:39:300:39:35

December to three options. The

first, preferred option, was that

0:39:350:39:39

there would be an agreement at this

stage. Claiming that, she would

0:39:390:39:43

bring back proposals in relation to

the

0:39:430:39:50

the border in Ireland. And of both

those proposals fails, there would

0:39:500:39:52

be the third option, and that would

be done in the context of moving

0:39:520:39:57

from phase one phase two that you

would fully and faithfully implement

0:39:570:40:03

her commitments. We got none of that

in this speech. It was full of fluff

0:40:030:40:07

and nonsense.

She made it clear she

doesn't like option C, the backstop

0:40:070:40:14

option, she wants to flesh out

options A and B. She said things

0:40:140:40:20

like we will not introduce a hard

border, if the EU forces Ireland to

0:40:200:40:26

that, it's to learn. She says,

that's not acceptable, we chose to

0:40:260:40:33

leave, we have to help find a

solution. She now needs to flesh out

0:40:330:40:40

the meat on the bones, that is what

happened next.

She is a co-parent of

0:40:400:40:48

the Good Friday Agreement, so it is

obvious it is our responsibility to

0:40:480:40:51

find a solution. We are less then 51

weeks away from the end of this

0:40:510:40:56

process. We haven't had one concrete

proposal brought forward by the

0:40:560:41:01

British Government. She may not like

option Charlie, but she signed up to

0:41:010:41:09

it on the 8th of December, and the

Parliament and Council was very

0:41:090:41:14

clear, that we have to make sure

that what was committed to by the

0:41:140:41:23

British Government would be fully

and faithfully implemented in this

0:41:230:41:28

draft treaty in order for us to

phase two, which is about the future

0:41:280:41:32

relationship. We want that. What we

all have to do is provide legal

0:41:320:41:39

certainty for the traders, for

businesses and to make sure there's

0:41:390:41:46

no diminution of rights and

0:41:460:41:52

no diminution of rights and we have

that is going to be rejected and

0:41:520:41:56

protected for people in the North.

Shisha is developed option C

0:41:560:42:05

brother.

It has been said this was a

triumph of style over substance. We

0:42:050:42:13

haven't seen any new details

whatsoever in how precisely the

0:42:130:42:16

Prime Minister wants to move the

process forward comedy exit that?

I

0:42:160:42:21

do not. This speech should have been

made some time ago, but this has

0:42:210:42:28

been a pragmatic speech by her. She

made it clear she accepts the

0:42:280:42:37

responsibility that the UK has a

role to play in finding a solution.

0:42:370:42:44

She made clear because it was Europe

and the Irish Government who said it

0:42:440:42:48

is up to the UK to find a solution

on the border. Theresa May has come

0:42:480:42:51

back and said, I'm sorry, it's up to

all three of us. I was here and I

0:42:510:43:01

said at the time of the Council

agreement at the time that was a

0:43:010:43:06

fudge, and it has proved to be a

budget, and they have greater

0:43:060:43:10

difficulty in putting legal

certainty under that. The thing I am

0:43:100:43:14

not clear about now as we move

forward is how long it's going to

0:43:140:43:18

take the UK and the other 27 to find

a solution before we move on to the

0:43:180:43:24

more important talks on trade and

the second stage of this process,

0:43:240:43:27

which is I want to see us go on to.

In that, we will find a lot of

0:43:270:43:35

solutions to the problems we do

face.

I think everyone is keen to

0:43:350:43:40

move on to substantive trade talks

and the future relationship, but

0:43:400:43:45

Theresa May said three things the

other day, no hard border, no hard

0:43:450:43:50

border between Northern Ireland and

Great Britain, and no continuing

0:43:500:43:53

membership of the customs union. A

lot of people say it is not possible

0:43:530:43:57

to achieve those three commitments.

Do you think

it remains to be seen.

0:43:570:44:04

There is a lot of negotiation to go

through. The one thing I am clear

0:44:040:44:08

about is there will be a lots of

compromise and nobody is going to

0:44:080:44:12

get all they once. Not the UK or the

EU. The amazing thing about this

0:44:120:44:22

process is that Mr Barnier and Mr

Juncker have been able to keep the

0:44:220:44:25

member states very close together

Octonauts. We will watch what

0:44:250:44:31

happens as we come towards other

negotiations. Recently I visited the

0:44:310:44:38

port against,

0:44:380:44:43

port against, -- I visited the port

of Ghent, there will be many

0:44:450:44:48

borders, ports in the UK and on the

continent that face similar

0:44:480:44:54

difficulties and face major

problems. Have to face them as well.

0:44:540:45:01

We had to face them as well, but we

are so close and trying to find a

0:45:010:45:04

way forward out of this, but the

truth as this will be difficult.

0:45:040:45:10

Those who thought it was an easy

process that the

0:45:100:45:18

process that the UK was going to

leave the EU didn't work over all

0:45:180:45:21

the substance. This is the problem

we are now facing.

There are not

0:45:210:45:29

many people saying these days it

will be simple. Martina, Baxter that

0:45:290:45:33

backstop agreement that on the table

in December about full regulatory

0:45:330:45:40

alignment. Theresa May has indicated

she is not happy with that, but

0:45:400:45:44

there was a hint in the Mansion

House speech that he said, we are

0:45:440:45:47

leaving, taking back control, but

will continue to adopt the system of

0:45:470:45:53

rules and regulations we are tied

into. That is very interesting shift

0:45:530:45:58

potentially on the part of the

British Government?

What the British

0:45:580:46:07

Government wants is its cake and eat

it. It was some kind of Brexit

0:46:070:46:12

varied to magically resolve the

Brexit disaster. She is talking

0:46:120:46:17

about outcomes, regulatory outcomes.

She is not talking about regulatory

0:46:170:46:23

convergence. It's quite clear that

in the EU it is about being precise,

0:46:230:46:30

making sure it is in a treaty,

making sure you give certainty. Not

0:46:300:46:36

to just trust us on the day. And

even though our laws will be

0:46:360:46:42

different, the outcomes will be the

same. That is what she proposed on

0:46:420:46:45

Friday. House speech on Friday was

no different to any other speech

0:46:450:46:49

that she has given from the start of

this process. My responsibility is

0:46:490:46:57

that I need to make sure I protect

all the people of the North and of

0:46:570:47:01

the island as far as I can. I can

guarantee you that what is in the

0:47:010:47:06

backstop, while it refers to the

North remaining in the custom union

0:47:060:47:10

and the single market, will be

embraced by everyone who is trading

0:47:100:47:15

not just across the island but into

the largest market that there is in

0:47:150:47:20

the world. So what we have to do is

to capture what has been put

0:47:200:47:26

forward, and let's not forget, she

may not like it, but she agreed to

0:47:260:47:32

it on the 8th of December. She

agreed to do three things. She has

0:47:320:47:36

failed an option A and option B, we

need certainty in the North and I

0:47:360:47:44

have a responsibility to make sure

at the North stays in the custom

0:47:440:47:47

union and the single market, the ECJ

applies, and from Thursday next

0:47:470:47:54

week, I will be launching a legal

advice in London to show the charter

0:47:540:47:56

for fundamental rights not being in

this Brexit discussion by Theresa

0:47:560:48:03

May is also going to have

implications for the North.

That

0:48:030:48:07

maybe your aspiration, it doesn't

mean the British Government

0:48:070:48:10

necessarily agrees with you. I want

to ask you about what the World

0:48:100:48:15

Trade Organisation terms and

conditions may mean if the UK

0:48:150:48:19

doesn't reach a deal with EU. That

is what some Brexit supporters think

0:48:190:48:27

would be fine, Theresa May not that

on the head, he said that would not

0:48:270:48:30

be enough for the UK to keep its

border promises. In all at this, she

0:48:300:48:35

has made a commitment to no hard

border on the island of Ireland.

The

0:48:350:48:42

harsh truth is that no matter what

Theresa May will say, Martina

0:48:420:48:46

Anderson will not agree, because she

has taken a diametrically opposed

0:48:460:48:49

position. Quite frankly, I think as

we move forward, you're right, WTO

0:48:490:48:56

is the worst case of all. White

fleece some people would like that?

0:48:560:49:02

Some people would like that, but it

would end up being a total disaster

0:49:020:49:10

for us and the Republic of Ireland.

We keep talking about North/South,

0:49:100:49:14

but does the East/West relationship

we have to look to too. I am not

0:49:140:49:20

going to affect the single market of

the United Kingdom.

That is an

0:49:200:49:27

internal, UK issue and the European

Union doesn't want to get involved

0:49:270:49:30

in that at all. It is not arguing to

diminish the integrity of the

0:49:300:49:35

Constitution of the UK.

You talk

about alignments, what will that be

0:49:350:49:39

like in ten years' time? Who was

going to monitor that? We don't even

0:49:390:49:42

have a storm at executive to have

any input. Scotland, Wales and

0:49:420:49:49

everyone else is putting in inputs,

and we are not Ireland have no say.

0:49:490:49:54

And who in future is going to

monitor what that alignment will be?

0:49:540:49:58

Are we going to the simply told what

to do? Willet come to the stage

0:49:580:50:09

where what we produce will not be

accepted and the rest of the UK? I

0:50:090:50:12

will let out right away.

No meeting

of minds, but an interesting debate.

0:50:120:50:19

Martina Anderson and Jim

Nicholson, thank you.

0:50:190:50:20

Let's hear from my

guests of the day,

0:50:200:50:22

Brian Feeney and Felicity Huston.

0:50:220:50:29

Felicity, do you feel debate has

substantially moved on in the wake

0:50:290:50:32

of what the Prime Minister had to

say on Friday, I was simply a

0:50:320:50:35

restatement of previous commitments?

And things he was attempting to move

0:50:350:50:42

on. There is this delusional

suggestion she should be coming down

0:50:420:50:44

on the hard side. If she explained

the consulate have to be filled in

0:50:440:50:51

over a hard border, people don't

want to hear that...

Were not need

0:50:510:50:57

more than they commitments at this

stage?

I think there should be more

0:50:570:51:02

set from Brussels on their

commitments.

0:51:020:51:08

commitments. All we hear is no, I

think it is time we hear something

0:51:090:51:12

from there.

She bears some

responsible to providing solutions,

0:51:120:51:18

she is clear about that. The turn of

the speech was interesting. There is

0:51:180:51:24

a responsibility in the UK

Government to come up with solutions

0:51:240:51:27

because it was their decision to

leave.

As recently as May 17, the

0:51:270:51:36

commissioner down south was happy to

go ahead with an open border and

0:51:360:51:39

very little electronic changes. Why

has that changed?

Do you think the

0:51:390:51:47

change of tone is real or has it

been overplayed?

There has been a

0:51:470:51:52

change of tone and it is

significant, but not overly border.

0:51:520:51:57

She is accepting now that,

essentially, Britain is going to be

0:51:570:52:01

growing slower. People are going to

be more poor. Life has changed, they

0:52:010:52:08

will not be able to have the same

relationship if they leave the

0:52:080:52:12

customs union and the single market.

She said we will not have the same

0:52:120:52:15

access any more. There is a dose of

reality. Michael Heseltine this

0:52:150:52:20

morning said it's all platitudes,

there is nothing there. Felicity say

0:52:200:52:28

the EU aren't producing anything,

they have produced this draft

0:52:280:52:31

withdrawal treaty and she has

responded with platitudes. I am one

0:52:310:52:35

of the few people, apart from

officials, I have read this 120

0:52:350:52:41

pages. It is an enormously detailed

legal document. There is nothing

0:52:410:52:46

coming from the British Government

at all. They are going to have to

0:52:460:52:50

negotiate on this. Will get another

documents on Tuesday and on the 23rd

0:52:500:52:55

of March, European Council will

decide how to move on on the basis

0:52:550:52:59

of the withdrawal treaty. There is

nothing substantive. The 120 pages

0:52:590:53:06

aren't just the Irish border, there

are other things about data

0:53:060:53:11

protection, about the role of

different courts. She has changed

0:53:110:53:17

her talent, yes, she is excepting

the European Court of Justice will

0:53:170:53:20

have a continuing role. People

concentrate on the North/South,

0:53:200:53:25

East/West stuff, they are missing

that the European Court of Justice

0:53:250:53:29

will continue to have a role in

Northern Ireland.

Maybe this speech

0:53:290:53:33

was more about trying to hold the

very difficult Conservative Party

0:53:330:53:39

together than anything else? Cheese

instead succeeded in that?

Even Anna

0:53:390:53:45

Soubry was quite confirmatory, which

is quite an achievement.

0:53:450:53:47

Thanks, both.

0:53:470:53:49

Let's just pause for a moment

and have a look back at another

0:53:490:53:52

Brexit-focused week in

60 seconds with Gareth Gordon.

0:53:520:53:55

The European Commission of list is

Strata legal text, suggesting

0:54:020:54:06

Northern Ireland should remain part

of the customs union and share a

0:54:060:54:11

common regulatory area with the

Republic. The Prime Minister said

0:54:110:54:14

no.

Know UK Prime Minister could

ever agree to eight. I will make it

0:54:140:54:21

crystal clear to President Juncker

and others we will never do so.

0:54:210:54:25

Double hopes the backstop option

won't be needed.

I don't want a

0:54:250:54:29

border between the north and sell

than I want with the UK.

People keep

0:54:290:54:42

treating the border question is

little separates, it is not, it is a

0:54:420:54:46

metaphor for the overall dilemma.

Businesses in the border would now

0:54:460:54:52

like to start over.

We have three

different Britons, the only

0:54:520:54:57

alternative is to have a second

referendum would be people who

0:54:570:55:00

didn't realise what they were voting

for in the first place. -- we have

0:55:000:55:04

three different options, the

alternative.

0:55:040:55:06

Gareth Gordon reporting.

0:55:060:55:07

And let's have a final word

with our commentators.

0:55:070:55:11

I just want to look ahead to local

politics and pick up on a couple of

0:55:110:55:17

weeks of toxic exchanges between the

DUP and Sinn Fein on what was and

0:55:170:55:20

not agreed on the negotiation of the

draft agreement text. DC any sign of

0:55:200:55:27

Stormont is coming back in the short

time?

Not in the short term. It is

0:55:270:55:31

difficult to see how they can even

be renewed talks before the 20th

0:55:310:55:36

anniversary of the agreement. We

have a couple of difficult weeks to

0:55:360:55:40

with Brexit. It has been said there

is tension between the British and

0:55:400:55:47

Irish governments on the whole

thing. It is difficult to see how

0:55:470:55:51

they can bring the two parties

together, they are very far apart,

0:55:510:55:54

they are not even agreeing on what

they agreed.

The irony is, if you

0:55:540:56:00

look at that draft text and the fact

it has now been shown that Arlene

0:56:000:56:04

Foster did give a hard copy of that

to Michelle O'Neill on the Friday

0:56:040:56:08

nights, they were so close to a

remarkable deal.

It fell apart over

0:56:080:56:13

the weekend. Mary Lou McDonald said

she warned that if they didn't

0:56:130:56:22

agree, people would and picket. But

the suspicion and leaks that were

0:56:220:56:28

coming out over that weekend spoke

to elements in the DUP who say, we

0:56:280:56:34

can't service to the grassroots.

That is the key, DUP grassroots had

0:56:340:56:41

not been prepared for what is

coming?

Arlene had said they would

0:56:410:56:45

be no Irish Language Act, now there

appears to be one. It is important

0:56:450:56:48

to remember there is not just the

DUP by the idea of an Irish language

0:56:480:56:53

and difficult, it is widespread

concern.

It is also worth pointing

0:56:530:56:59

out it is not your Sinn Fein who

once one?

But they are the drivers

0:56:590:57:04

of it, they are driving the whole

interest and people say

0:57:040:57:09

weaponisation of the Irish Language

Act aback

but others want it?

They

0:57:090:57:16

are hanging on the coat-tails of

Sinn Fein who are very organised.

0:57:160:57:22

People are a bit incorrect of their

assessment that it is just the DUP

0:57:220:57:27

who don't want this and are very

uncomfortable with what comes with

0:57:270:57:29

its.

0:57:290:57:36

its.

A final word on that?

It is a

mistake to think it is just the

0:57:360:57:41

Irish Language Act, it is symbolic

of Unionists saying we will decide

0:57:410:57:46

how many rights you have.

Thank you

both very much, that is

0:57:460:57:51

Costanza, thank you very

much for coming in.

0:57:510:57:53

That's all we've got time

for for the London part of the show.

0:57:530:57:56

My thanks to you for

being my guests today.

0:57:560:57:58

Bye-bye.

0:57:580:57:59

welcome back.

0:57:590:58:00

So how about a bit of

a break from Brexit?

0:58:000:58:02

This morning the government

announced new plans to make it

0:58:020:58:05

easier for more houses to be built,

with rules to cut red

0:58:050:58:08

tape so that there can

be more homes in areas

0:58:080:58:10

where they are needed the most.

0:58:100:58:11

The government says they will take

on what they call the "Nimby

0:58:110:58:14

councils" who don't build enough.

0:58:140:58:15

However, their problem is that a lot

of these councils are Conservative.

0:58:150:58:18

So could we be about to see

a battle between local

0:58:180:58:21

and central government?

0:58:210:58:22

With me now with hopefully

all the answers is Cabinet Office

0:58:220:58:25

Minister David Lidington.

0:58:250:58:27

Thanks very much for coming in.

Good

morning. If you're going to try and

0:58:270:58:31

build more homes in the south-east

of England, which is where the

0:58:310:58:34

demand is highest, these are going

to be your own councillors you're

0:58:340:58:38

taking on over this?

If you talk to

most Conservative councillors they

0:58:380:58:42

will get the need for more homes and

their significant growth in house

0:58:420:58:46

building. Actually, if you talk to

councils in my area you will see

0:58:460:58:52

councils that are getting on in

doing it with one of the fastest new

0:58:520:58:54

house-building rates anywhere in the

country.

Under this government

0:58:540:58:58

house-building rates have fallen

significantly. Fewer new houses a

0:58:580:59:02

year than there were under the

Labour government, 223,000 in 2007,

0:59:020:59:09

217,000, fewer now than word being

built under the last Labour

0:59:090:59:14

government.

The number of new houses

last year was 217,000, the

0:59:140:59:18

second-highest annual house-building

figure in 30 years. That is not a

0:59:180:59:22

record to be ashamed of. We have

also increased considerably the

0:59:220:59:26

spending on affordable homes in the

delivery of affordable homes in

0:59:260:59:29

council homes compared with what the

Labour government achieved. More

0:59:290:59:33

council houses have been built since

2010 than the entire 13 years in the

0:59:330:59:38

Labour government before that.

The

number of affordable homes being

0:59:380:59:41

built is going down.

0:59:410:59:47

built is going down. In 2010 it was

61,000, last year was 40,000.

This

0:59:470:59:49

is exactly why we have put in £9

billion, an extra 2 billion in the

0:59:490:59:53

last year alone, into the affordable

housing programme. What we need to

0:59:530:59:57

do is to get the new homes built.

That takes us to the planning

0:59:571:00:01

announcement that is being made

tomorrow, with a new national

1:00:011:00:06

planning policy framework for public

consultation. Houses and residents'

1:00:061:00:11

groups can feedback their views on

that. When I talk to councils I

1:00:111:00:16

find, and I talk to residents

concerned about new development,

1:00:161:00:19

what they want is to know that there

is going to be the infrastructure,

1:00:191:00:22

there is going to be the public

services to support new housing. I

1:00:221:00:28

find increasingly people get the

need for new housing.

People get the

1:00:281:00:31

need for new housing, they just do

not want it anywhere near them. That

1:00:311:00:36

is where the phrase Nimby comes

from.

I think that is being unfair.

1:00:361:00:41

When I say to

1:00:411:00:47

people, all can your children or

grandchildren afford to get on the

1:00:531:00:55

housing ladder, you see the heads

nodding, even among older residents.

1:00:551:00:58

They get the importance of this,

just as people get the significance

1:00:581:01:01

that we are living independently for

longer. That is great, but we also

1:01:011:01:03

need more accommodation, there are

more households for any given level

1:01:031:01:05

of population than we had in the

past. As well as having the house is

1:01:051:01:09

planned for, so that the locations,

as in the new guard in towns and

1:01:091:01:13

cities programme are being properly

planned for, you also need the

1:01:131:01:18

infrastructure, the transport, the

broadband to support that. That is

1:01:181:01:23

why the housing infrastructure fund

has been set up, so that local

1:01:231:01:26

councils can bid for that to support

unlocking development opportunities.

1:01:261:01:29

The government has said this morning

that Nimbys need to be tackled. But

1:01:291:01:38

the Nimbys and in the Cabinet. You

have said this needs to be done in a

1:01:381:01:41

way that protects the green belt.

The housing minister says every

1:01:411:01:44

effort must be made to avoid

building in the green belt. The

1:01:441:01:49

Prime Minister Minister said that

local authorities may only alter

1:01:491:01:53

green belt boundaries in exceptional

circumstances.

1:01:531:02:00

circumstances.

No, not at all, you

are underestimating the way green

1:02:021:02:06

belt is important. If you come back

to the Chilterns green belt area,

1:02:061:02:12

for people living in London, living

in Luton, High Wycombe, Milton

1:02:121:02:19

Keynes, Watford, these are places

expanding, new houses are being

1:02:191:02:21

built. Having that nearby is

something that is really important

1:02:211:02:28

so we need to plan housing alongside

conservation which is why when the

1:02:281:02:34

planning framework is announced

tomorrow and the Prime Minister

1:02:341:02:36

makes her big speech on housing, we

are also saying this will be

1:02:361:02:41

developed alongside and taking full

account of what Michael Gove and the

1:02:411:02:45

environment Department are doing

with a 25 year plans to improve the

1:02:451:02:49

environment of our country.

Let me

take you back to the speech the

1:02:491:02:53

Prime Minister made on Friday, her

Brexit speech. She made it clear one

1:02:531:02:58

of the hard facts was we weren't

going to get everything we wanted.

1:02:581:03:02

You are as close as you can beat her

thinking on this, what will she

1:03:021:03:07

compromise on?

Tempted as I am, I'm

not going to go into a detailed

1:03:071:03:14

negotiating position. We accept that

what we put forward is ambitious,

1:03:141:03:20

also credible idea for a close

economic partnership with the EU in

1:03:201:03:24

the future. The PM said in the text

of the speech that neither of us

1:03:241:03:28

will end up with everything they

wanted. What we need to do now is

1:03:281:03:34

see the EU's opening position, to

sit down and start to work through

1:03:341:03:38

in detail some of these points about

the law, how you deliver our

1:03:381:03:46

objectives of as frictionless trade

as possible, our economic

1:03:461:03:48

partnership in the future that

allows cross-border spy chains to

1:03:481:03:51

continue in a way that works to our

advantage and that of the EU 27

1:03:511:03:57

countries alike.

The Irish

government don't seem to be happy

1:03:571:04:02

about this, Simon Coveney said this

morning he doesn't then -- think the

1:04:021:04:10

EU will agree to it so we are no

closer to fixing the problem.

Simon

1:04:101:04:17

Coveney and the Taoiseach as well as

others have also the way to solving

1:04:171:04:20

the responsibilities over the Irish

border and avoiding the hard border

1:04:201:04:24

as to do that in the context of an

overall EU UK economic partnership

1:04:241:04:30

for the future, and go back to the

PM's speech on Friday and she set

1:04:301:04:34

out a number of elements of that. A

deal on goods that would mean the

1:04:341:04:40

and the EU recognise each other's

standards so British and European

1:04:401:04:47

goods circulated freely without the

need for border checks or paperwork.

1:04:471:04:52

That's what the Irish said they

don't think the EU will agree to.

I

1:04:521:04:57

think it is in the interests of the

EU to have this arrangement and

1:04:571:05:01

these sorts of detail are what we

need to get into to understand where

1:05:011:05:06

difficulties lie. The Prime Minister

also talks about a customs

1:05:061:05:11

arrangement or partnership with the

EU 27 in the future that would allow

1:05:111:05:15

us to simplify and eliminate some of

these problems. We already have

1:05:151:05:19

agreement on the continuation of the

Common travel area which means free

1:05:191:05:26

movement of people across the

jurisdiction border between the

1:05:261:05:27

island of Ireland and Ireland and

the UK. What the Cabinet are

1:05:271:05:34

committed to, and it was laid out in

the PM's speech, is that we see it

1:05:341:05:39

as essential to ensure there is not

a hard border on the island of

1:05:391:05:44

Ireland, that every aspect of the

Good Friday Agreement, both

1:05:441:05:49

east-west and north-south, is upheld

in full.

Moving onto President

1:05:491:05:55

Trump, he's threatening tariffs on

cars imported into the US which

1:05:551:05:57

would include cars coming from the

UK, Jaguar Land Rover brought over

1:05:571:06:04

100,000 into the US. If he makes

good on the threat of 10% tariffs,

1:06:041:06:09

what will the UK do about that?

At

the moment we are part of the EU and

1:06:091:06:15

would be talking with the commission

and European partners about our

1:06:151:06:19

collective response to this. I just

think that the United States is not

1:06:191:06:28

taking an advisable course. Trade

wars don't do anybody any good.

But

1:06:281:06:37

you know there's every possibility

Donald will go with this so what

1:06:371:06:44

would the EU do?

We would have to

see what happens. There's a lot of

1:06:441:06:48

concern recently about something

comparable as regards to aviation

1:06:481:06:52

and the aircraft we produced in part

in Belfast and the American

1:06:521:06:56

authorities at the end of the day to

drop back down and said no, that is

1:06:561:07:00

not the way we should be going.

We

tried in Britain in the 1960s

1:07:001:07:05

getting our car industry from

competition. It didn't work, it

1:07:051:07:11

protected inefficiencies, we lost

all our export markets because our

1:07:111:07:14

competitors went out and gobble them

up and the car industry had to go

1:07:141:07:20

through a very painful restructuring

to get to the success story it is

1:07:201:07:24

now.

Once we have left the European Union

1:07:241:07:28

and customs union, we will be able

to respond to a tariff or trade war

1:07:281:07:32

like this entirely differently so if

this were happening in three years,

1:07:321:07:36

what would the British government be

able to do in response to American

1:07:361:07:41

president threatening tariffs?

That

is likely piling hypothesis on

1:07:411:07:46

hypothesis, but it would also depend

in part on the nature of the

1:07:461:07:49

agreement that I hope we conclude

with the EU on industrial goods and

1:07:491:07:54

cross-border supply chains but we

would be free to impose our own

1:07:541:07:58

trade defence measures against any

country that is trying to dump on

1:07:581:08:01

the UK market and the bill is

currently going through Parliament

1:08:011:08:06

will give the UK authorities the

power to do just that.

David

1:08:061:08:11

Lidington, thanks for talking to us

this morning. We will now turn to

1:08:111:08:16

our expert Anil and what they think

it means for the future. Steve, this

1:08:161:08:24

idea of the potential of a trade

battle going on between the EU and

1:08:241:08:28

US takes us to part of whether the

UK can make up its own responses,

1:08:281:08:33

doesn't it?

Yes, and it's very

interesting David Lidington saying

1:08:331:08:38

we are leaping several hurdles here

because he hopes that post Brexit

1:08:381:08:43

the UK and the EU are lined terms of

other sectors. Whether they get that

1:08:431:08:52

sector by sector deal is highly

questionable so that's one of the

1:08:521:08:56

several hoops that it is very hard

to navigate. If you have a president

1:08:561:09:02

of the United States who is a

protectionist butting up tariffs,

1:09:021:09:05

that will have an impact on the rest

of the world. No country operates

1:09:051:09:09

alone in this global market. That is

the harsh reality. It has been lost

1:09:091:09:16

sometimes in arguments about

sovereignty and Britain going it

1:09:161:09:19

alone and the rest of it. It has an

immediate impact on every other

1:09:191:09:25

country and they are partly

powerless to do very much about it.

1:09:251:09:29

Is Donald Trump threatening this is

a clearer example as to why Britain

1:09:291:09:37

needs to leave the customs union,

Isabel?

I think we will have a

1:09:371:09:43

better deal with the EU than Donald

Trump does.

1:09:431:09:51

Trump does. Trump hates the EU, he

doesn't hate Britain, he wants

1:09:511:09:55

things to work well for us. He has

been very consistent about that and

1:09:551:10:02

always said America first so I

agree, it is possible he will go

1:10:021:10:06

ahead with this but also equally it

is possible that we will strike

1:10:061:10:11

something very positive with the US.

We did promise we will talk about

1:10:111:10:15

something other than Brexit for

small parts of the programme so

1:10:151:10:19

let's pick up on the housing

announcement coming tomorrow from

1:10:191:10:22

the Government. It feels like every

six months or so the Government will

1:10:221:10:29

-- promised they will build more

homes, and I being cynical?

I think

1:10:291:10:34

what they are promising now is

exactly what they promised in the

1:10:341:10:37

White Paper on housing, this is just

fleshing it out. It is the exact

1:10:371:10:44

same announcement. That said, what's

quite good about this, to some

1:10:441:10:47

extent I think the language is too

aggressive about councils and that

1:10:471:10:52

is what Labour is picking up on. For

a long time, politicians have

1:10:521:10:57

focused on things which are demand

side in the housing market because

1:10:571:11:03

it is sexier. Help to buy, right to

buy, and yet they can exacerbate the

1:11:031:11:09

problem because if anything while

helping a few people they are

1:11:091:11:13

pushing up prices potentially. What

they are doing here unapologetically

1:11:131:11:16

is focusing on the supply side and

that's what they need to do. It

1:11:161:11:21

isn't very sexy, it is not on every

front page today, the speech

1:11:211:11:25

tomorrow won't have as much of an

effect as the speech on Friday but

1:11:251:11:30

this is probably one of the biggest

crisis facing the country.

Probably

1:11:301:11:33

something voters care more about

than Brexit?

And the timing of this

1:11:331:11:39

is very interesting, coming up to

local elections in London Tories are

1:11:391:11:45

is very interesting, coming up to

expected to do very badly. Sadiq

1:11:451:11:46

Khan's record on housing is

extremely questionable to say the

1:11:461:11:49

Khan's record on housing is

least and I think this is an area

1:11:491:11:51

where the Tory party senses it

1:11:511:11:55

least and I think this is an area

be more proactive.

Is there enough

1:11:551:11:57

least and I think this is an area

oxygen in the room for people to

1:11:571:11:59

least and I think this is an area

concentrate on housing for voters to

1:11:591:12:00

get the message or ministers to push

1:12:001:12:05

concentrate on housing for voters to

this through?

Voters have got the

1:12:051:12:08

this through?

Voters have got the

message. Grandparents understand it

1:12:081:12:10

even if they don't want house

building near them because their

1:12:101:12:14

grandchildren cannot buy because

1:12:141:12:16

building near them because their

they cannot afford to in certain

1:12:161:12:17

parts of the country so everybody

1:12:171:12:20

they cannot afford to in certain

agrees about the ens, we need more

1:12:201:12:22

housing, it is just another means. I

completely agree that right to buy

1:12:221:12:27

doesn't address the issue of more

housing. This does partly but I

1:12:271:12:31

housing. This does partly but I

think the cabinet needs a housing

1:12:311:12:34

minister in the Cabinet accountable

1:12:341:12:36

think the cabinet needs a housing

and to say right, we are going to

1:12:361:12:39

build this number through various

means and I am accountable to make

1:12:391:12:43

sure it happens. It needs that

1:12:431:12:47

means and I am accountable to make

of focus.

At the same time as

1:12:471:12:49

Brexit, it should be housing?

Yes,

they have the right issue. There are

1:12:491:12:54

many issues, Brexit is sucking up

1:12:541:12:57

they have the right issue. There are

much energy. There are tonnes of

1:12:571:13:00

much energy. There are tonnes of

shoes we should be focusing on but

1:13:001:13:00

this is one of them.

Excellent,

thank you for coming in.

1:13:001:13:09

Join me again next Sunday

at 11am here on BBC One.

1:13:091:13:11

Until then, bye-bye.

1:13:111:13:18