Browse content similar to 05/03/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hello and welcome to an extended Sunday Politics. | :00:33. | :00:35. | |
The votes have been counted, the new 90-strong Assembly's | :00:36. | :00:38. | |
been filled and now the blood-letting begins. | :00:39. | :00:41. | |
The Ulster Unionist leader Mike Nesbitt has already | :00:42. | :00:43. | |
His resignation speech includes flash photography. | :00:44. | :00:52. | |
The electorate disagreed, they did not give me a mind a big enough for | :00:53. | :00:59. | |
me to feel justified in continuing in this position, so I shall not | :01:00. | :01:02. | |
continue in this position. And could the DUP leader now be | :01:03. | :01:04. | |
coming under pressure, too? I'll be asking newly-elected MLAs | :01:05. | :01:07. | |
from the five big parties what next for Arlene Foster, | :01:08. | :01:09. | |
and if they believe Stormont can get And we'll also hear from the smaller | :01:10. | :01:12. | |
parties, the successful Independent Claire Sugden, | :01:13. | :01:16. | |
and the Secretary of State - and we'll round everything off | :01:17. | :01:19. | |
with analysis from our Political Editor, Mark Devenport, | :01:20. | :01:21. | |
number-cruncher Nicholas Whyte and commentators Professor Pete Shirlow | :01:22. | :01:24. | |
and Patricia MacBride. Well, it was an unprecedented | :01:25. | :01:35. | |
election for many different reasons - the main one being that | :01:36. | :01:37. | |
with the nationalist surge and the loss of unionist seats, | :01:38. | :01:40. | |
there is now no longer a unionist Add in the reduced number of seats - | :01:41. | :01:43. | |
down from 108 to 90 - and you have a recipe | :01:44. | :01:49. | |
for major electoral upset. With that in mind, and just | :01:50. | :01:52. | |
in case you've been hiding in a bunker all weekend, | :01:53. | :01:54. | |
here's how things played out all through Friday | :01:55. | :01:58. | |
and into the early hours The DUP remain the biggest party | :01:59. | :02:02. | |
at Stormont on 28 seats - They only lost one seat - | :02:03. | :02:06. | |
quite an achievement The SDLP are now the third | :02:07. | :02:13. | |
largest party, coming back with a dozen seats, | :02:14. | :02:16. | |
the same number of seats they held Next up - the Ulster Unionists | :02:17. | :02:19. | |
on ten seats - a total that cost It was a good day for | :02:20. | :02:23. | |
Alliance as they held The Greens held their two seats, | :02:24. | :02:28. | |
while the TUV held its single seat, occupied by Jim Allister of course, | :02:29. | :02:32. | |
while People Before Profit are reduced to a solo seat - | :02:33. | :02:34. | |
Gerry Carroll in West Beflast. And there's one Independent - | :02:35. | :02:38. | |
Claire Sugden, the former Justice Minister, who we'll | :02:39. | :02:41. | |
hear from later. With just a whisker now separating | :02:42. | :02:46. | |
the DUP and Sinn Fein in terms of seats and votes, | :02:47. | :02:49. | |
the future shape of devolution and power-sharing will now be | :02:50. | :02:52. | |
on the negotiation table. My guests will be reflecting on that | :02:53. | :02:55. | |
in just a moment, but first our Political Correspondent, | :02:56. | :02:58. | |
Enda McClafferty, has the story We have had dramatic collections | :02:59. | :03:14. | |
before, but not quite like this. -- elections. | :03:15. | :03:24. | |
So we now have 18 politicians officially unemployed and looking | :03:25. | :03:30. | |
for a job, some with lots of experience, and some about. We also | :03:31. | :03:35. | |
by the weight have jobs vacant seat which now needs to be filled sooner | :03:36. | :03:38. | |
rather than later. But the real story from the selection is the | :03:39. | :03:43. | |
power shift at Stormont with unionists for the first time ever no | :03:44. | :03:48. | |
longer holding the majority. Arlene Foster predicted a brutal campaign | :03:49. | :03:52. | |
but didn't expect such a brutal result for unionism. This election | :03:53. | :03:57. | |
was a disaster for unionism, they've lost their overall majority and they | :03:58. | :04:05. | |
may never regain it. From going from a powerful position only last May, | :04:06. | :04:10. | |
2016, unionism is in crisis this morning. The DUP lost ten seed, | :04:11. | :04:15. | |
dropping to 28. And some big names paid the price. Former minister | :04:16. | :04:25. | |
Nelson McCausland. There is a life beyond politics, and other things I | :04:26. | :04:31. | |
can do. Is that it now, is at finish? Did I say that? Remember | :04:32. | :04:37. | |
this? When Arlene Foster was the darling of the DUP in the last | :04:38. | :04:41. | |
election. Roll the clock forward ten months and another new leader is | :04:42. | :04:46. | |
entering the spotlight. I think it is amazing, we are delighted, thank | :04:47. | :04:51. | |
you, you have come out in strong numbers. The vote has increased, | :04:52. | :04:54. | |
people know action needed to be taken. Sinn Fein's gamble paid off, | :04:55. | :05:03. | |
as their vote rose by 4%. They sold their selection on hold and resolve | :05:04. | :05:08. | |
issues of equality and legacy and all the things that have been | :05:09. | :05:12. | |
blocked by the DUP the many years, and people will be expecting | :05:13. | :05:17. | |
delivery. There will be a period of grace, where they knew we were going | :05:18. | :05:25. | |
into negotiations. And if Sinn Fein is to deliver, will it be when | :05:26. | :05:30. | |
Arlene Foster as business? I think the difficulty is there is now | :05:31. | :05:34. | |
there's a very firm image, a caricature of her as a hate figure, | :05:35. | :05:40. | |
someone who is too extreme to do business with nationalism. That is | :05:41. | :05:45. | |
damaging for her, it helped her in the campaign for the boat, but now | :05:46. | :05:50. | |
that is a huge difficulty for her. The DUP leader wasn't the only one | :05:51. | :05:55. | |
feeling the heat. Even before the count ended, Mike Nesbitt knew the | :05:56. | :05:59. | |
game was up. Losing six seats and falling behind the SDLP in the | :06:00. | :06:05. | |
political order sealed his fate. For three months I have been criticising | :06:06. | :06:11. | |
another party leader for not taking responsibility for actions that | :06:12. | :06:16. | |
occurred on their watch, so it would be the height of hypocrisy about | :06:17. | :06:19. | |
didn't take full responsibility for the results to date for the Ulster | :06:20. | :06:26. | |
Unionists. In pure terms, the buck stops here. But he was in the | :06:27. | :06:32. | |
party's only big casualty. Enoch Powell said our political career | :06:33. | :06:45. | |
ends in tears. I think I prefer that I am too tired to laugh and too old | :06:46. | :06:50. | |
to cry. They now have an Assembly team that is very light in terms of | :06:51. | :06:53. | |
experience, they got no leader, it'll be a challenge to get that in, | :06:54. | :07:00. | |
and I think, what is the direction for them? What now for the official | :07:01. | :07:05. | |
opposition? The SDLP had a good election, retaining its trial seeds | :07:06. | :07:10. | |
of a few familiar faces making a comeback. But it came at a cost, | :07:11. | :07:15. | |
they no longer have an Assembly boys in west Belfast. I feel much more | :07:16. | :07:20. | |
for the party and people in the committee then I do for myself -- | :07:21. | :07:30. | |
Assembly voice. Warning signs, where the SDLP was appalled by Sinn Fein. | :07:31. | :07:35. | |
So can we expect the party to return to the opposition benches? That | :07:36. | :07:42. | |
remains open to DSL DP, it depends on the nature of any agreement that | :07:43. | :07:47. | |
is reached between Sinn Fein and the DUP. It was also a good election for | :07:48. | :07:53. | |
Alliance, as they record of the highest vote in decades. We talked | :07:54. | :07:57. | |
about what we would do differently and how we would try to re-establish | :07:58. | :08:01. | |
the Assembly on a different photo where it would be sustainable and | :08:02. | :08:05. | |
able to deliver. People respond that I connected with the message. The | :08:06. | :08:11. | |
Green Party held its two seats, and Claire Sugden is also returning. But | :08:12. | :08:16. | |
for the TUV, it was another election which, failed to convince doubters | :08:17. | :08:22. | |
to return more than one candidate. And disappointment for People Before | :08:23. | :08:29. | |
Profit, who lost their seat. This was the election where voters | :08:30. | :08:32. | |
re-engage the politics, as the turnout was up ten percentage points | :08:33. | :08:38. | |
on the last poll. So what do voters make the result? I thought it was | :08:39. | :08:43. | |
grey, the number of women across all the parties and a lot younger | :08:44. | :08:48. | |
people, so I am trying to be very optimistic, and they hope to get | :08:49. | :08:54. | |
together and get some deal. It is a shake-up. I think Arlene was wrong | :08:55. | :09:00. | |
in her attitudes and aggression. And I feel she should have stepped | :09:01. | :09:05. | |
aside. Unionism is dysfunctional at the moment, it lacks leadership and | :09:06. | :09:12. | |
direction. Being a DUP voter, I can see it. The focus now switches to | :09:13. | :09:18. | |
Stormont where tomorrow MLAs will return to face the same challenges | :09:19. | :09:20. | |
they left behind six weeks ago. They're still the "big five" | :09:21. | :09:23. | |
parties in political terms, but the distances between them, | :09:24. | :09:26. | |
and even their order, has changed. I'm joined now by Simon | :09:27. | :09:30. | |
Hamilton of the DUP, Sinn Fein's Conor Murphy, | :09:31. | :09:33. | |
Claire Hanna of the SDLP, the Ulster Unionist Robin Swann | :09:34. | :09:36. | |
and the Alliance leader, Weight you are all very welcome to | :09:37. | :09:48. | |
the programme. Flank either being here today. Arlene Foster has use to | :09:49. | :09:54. | |
it weakest position in the history of Northern Ireland, it has lost its | :09:55. | :09:59. | |
overall majority at Stormont. It was a disappointing election, not just | :10:00. | :10:03. | |
for the DUP, with the whole unionist family. Let's not forget there were | :10:04. | :10:08. | |
lots of addictions before the election, many taking place in the | :10:09. | :10:12. | |
studio, that the DUP's boat would crumble, it went up by 20 5000. We | :10:13. | :10:17. | |
have had the single biggest vote of any party since the return of the | :10:18. | :10:22. | |
Assembly back in 1998. Sadly that vote not been converted into more | :10:23. | :10:28. | |
seats than the 28 we had. But we still have a big mandate, we saw the | :10:29. | :10:32. | |
biggest party. We have to reflect on the lessons of that election and we | :10:33. | :10:38. | |
will do it in due course. Your boat was up, but your share was your role | :10:39. | :10:46. | |
vote was up. You are down 1.1%. Many were saying our vote would go down, | :10:47. | :10:53. | |
it went up. It went down by 1.1%. How much of the responsibility for | :10:54. | :10:58. | |
what was a disappointing day, you just said it, it should be put on | :10:59. | :11:03. | |
Arlene Foster? Gavin Robinson said a bad day be unionism. Not a good day | :11:04. | :11:10. | |
for the DUP. A bad day at the office. You've got to sit down and | :11:11. | :11:17. | |
think, we hung the campaign on Hollywood Foster, critics said she | :11:18. | :11:22. | |
didn't conduct herself well, she made mistakes. You've lost ten | :11:23. | :11:26. | |
seats. It is disappointing we've lost so many seed, that so many | :11:27. | :11:30. | |
colleagues and returning. We will look at the lessons of this, we will | :11:31. | :11:34. | |
reflect on it. Could one of those lessons may be be Arlene Foster | :11:35. | :11:38. | |
isn't as sure-footed as maybe you thought she was? Absolutely not. | :11:39. | :11:44. | |
I've known Arlene for many years, she's very capable. You still think | :11:45. | :11:49. | |
that? She has shown that down the years. She has shown it in her | :11:50. | :11:55. | |
leadership, not just of the DUP but Northern Ireland. She has my full | :11:56. | :11:59. | |
support, she has the support of the party and most importantly, she has | :12:00. | :12:04. | |
the support of 225,000 people across Northern Ireland who voted for the | :12:05. | :12:09. | |
DUP. They increased the mandate. It hasn't been converted into as many | :12:10. | :12:15. | |
seats. She also galvanise Republicans, say many. That is why | :12:16. | :12:20. | |
Sinn Fein did well. Jonathan explainers, Sinn Fein seized an | :12:21. | :12:23. | |
opportunity that was presented around this. That was the excuse | :12:24. | :12:30. | |
they use the calling the election, there were many reasons. | :12:31. | :12:37. | |
There were bigger issues. That is what people... When I was going | :12:38. | :12:45. | |
around the doors, people realise this was much more than it was about | :12:46. | :12:51. | |
it. They knew what Sinn Fein was doing, so our vote increase. | :12:52. | :12:56. | |
Disappointingly that wasn't translated into the number of seeds | :12:57. | :13:02. | |
we would like. We were expected to lung some -- lose some of the seeds. | :13:03. | :13:08. | |
You are down to 28, unionism has 44% of the seats in the chamber, where | :13:09. | :13:16. | |
it used to have more than 50%. This is an important question. Which is | :13:17. | :13:20. | |
more important... I can't believe you thought it would be a good idea | :13:21. | :13:26. | |
to go below 50%. That is the first time you've done that since 1921. | :13:27. | :13:30. | |
You can't tell me it isn't significant. Which is more important | :13:31. | :13:35. | |
to you, retaining Arlene Foster in a position of leadership as First | :13:36. | :13:39. | |
Minister or the future of devolved government? If you have to make a | :13:40. | :13:44. | |
choice, which do you go for? We did set a benchmark, we said it would be | :13:45. | :13:48. | |
a close election. People mocked those, people laughed at us, said we | :13:49. | :13:53. | |
were crying wolf. You've made that point. The message coming back to me | :13:54. | :14:00. | |
in the election, to all of my colleagues and everyone here today, | :14:01. | :14:03. | |
in spite of the differences we have, people want to see a functioning and | :14:04. | :14:07. | |
working Assembly delivering for them. I do need you do and this | :14:08. | :14:14. | |
question, I will tease it out more. Sinn Fein are not prepared to work | :14:15. | :14:21. | |
with Arlene in an executive, she can continue in her leadership, but they | :14:22. | :14:26. | |
won't work with as an executive. I'm asking you now, and I want you to be | :14:27. | :14:31. | |
clear, if that continues to be the case, is it possible, as Gavin | :14:32. | :14:36. | |
Robinson suggested on the radio last night, that may be Arlene Foster | :14:37. | :14:40. | |
might just consider stepping aside to allow devolution to be restored? | :14:41. | :14:45. | |
The God we want to see devolution restored, the working Assembly | :14:46. | :14:51. | |
delivering -- we want to see devolution restored. It is not the | :14:52. | :14:55. | |
Sinn Fein to dictate who our nominee is. It is not reasonable to do so. | :14:56. | :15:03. | |
The DUP could have objective. Gavin Robinson said he wasn't ruling it | :15:04. | :15:09. | |
out if it was the decision by Arlene Foster, they would back. The party | :15:10. | :15:14. | |
does support. Should she step aside to make sure the devolution is | :15:15. | :15:20. | |
restored? No, she shouldn't. She has my support, she has the party's | :15:21. | :15:24. | |
support and most importantly, she has the support of 225,000 people | :15:25. | :15:31. | |
who voted for her and the party. It is Arlene or nobody? I want Arlene | :15:32. | :15:36. | |
to listen to the talks. I want to see her going back into government. | :15:37. | :15:41. | |
How do you respond to that? If it is the position of the DUP during these | :15:42. | :15:48. | |
negotiations, life will not be breezed back into the Executive. You | :15:49. | :15:53. | |
have drawn a line in the sand by saying that Sinn Fein will not work | :15:54. | :15:56. | |
with Arlene Foster in an Executive this side of the enquiry. That | :15:57. | :16:01. | |
hasn't changed? When you look at the opening piece of your programme | :16:02. | :16:06. | |
today, I think we have a recipe for power-sharing. We have power blocs | :16:07. | :16:20. | |
in the Assembly with an equal basis. We have to get our act together, | :16:21. | :16:25. | |
ensure that the Assembly and the Executive working. The message | :16:26. | :16:27. | |
received on the doorstep is all of that but also included that we have | :16:28. | :16:32. | |
to go back and ensure that it's based on the agreements that were | :16:33. | :16:36. | |
previously agreed to at the implication of those. You accept the | :16:37. | :16:40. | |
point that it is nothing to do with Michelle O'Neill or any of the rest | :16:41. | :16:45. | |
of your Assembly team who leads the DUP? We not dictating who leads the | :16:46. | :16:49. | |
DUP. But you are deep rating that she will not be First Minister? The | :16:50. | :17:00. | |
DUP will have two decide... So you are dictating? To continue with | :17:01. | :17:14. | |
that, if Sinn Fein nominates Arlene Foster as First Minister,, your | :17:15. | :17:21. | |
leader will not work with her as Deputy First Minister? Sinn Fein | :17:22. | :17:28. | |
will not support that nomination. So that is a red line as far as Sinn | :17:29. | :17:34. | |
Fein is concerned? That is an obstacle to devolution. You are | :17:35. | :17:42. | |
saying, here is Aaron line in the sand, we are not willing to accept | :17:43. | :17:47. | |
that part of the process. She cannot be First Minister. We were clear on | :17:48. | :17:51. | |
the doorstep, we were clear during the election, we have a mandate | :17:52. | :17:56. | |
which just told us, and we said to the people that we would not support | :17:57. | :18:00. | |
Arlene Foster as joint First Minister. So they should respect | :18:01. | :18:09. | |
your mandate, but you do not respect hers? The DUP can nominate whoever | :18:10. | :18:19. | |
they want as First Minister. If they nominate Arlene Foster ahead of the | :18:20. | :18:22. | |
publication of the RHI report, Sinn Fein will not support that. How do | :18:23. | :18:29. | |
you respond to that? We're heading into talks and negotiations, had | :18:30. | :18:34. | |
we've gone through many over the last number of years. Often, people | :18:35. | :18:40. | |
have said... They say it is impossible to find a way through the | :18:41. | :18:44. | |
difficulties we face. We will go into those talks in the upcoming | :18:45. | :18:49. | |
week... But you are not saying there is a line in the sand today that | :18:50. | :18:55. | |
Arlene Foster would not step aside? You are leaving wiggle room to say, | :18:56. | :19:00. | |
maybe if necessary during the negotiation, we may submit to what | :19:01. | :19:05. | |
Sinn Fein is saying if they want to resurrect evolution? We have | :19:06. | :19:14. | |
received a mandate, a strong mandate which has increased from the last | :19:15. | :19:17. | |
election, although that has not increased the number of seats. We | :19:18. | :19:20. | |
are still the leading party within the Assembly, and Arlene has | :19:21. | :19:26. | |
received that mandate and endorsement of her dealership. I | :19:27. | :19:30. | |
want to see her not only leading us into the talks to restore | :19:31. | :19:34. | |
devolution, which is what people want. We don't... I understand that. | :19:35. | :19:43. | |
You make that point. We want to get devolution back up and running. I | :19:44. | :19:47. | |
will make this point. As I said at the start of my interview, there is | :19:48. | :19:51. | |
a recipe within the Assembly for a stable Assembly and a stable | :19:52. | :19:56. | |
Executive. We cannot ignore the issues that brought the election | :19:57. | :20:00. | |
about, alleged corruption at the heart of government. There is in | :20:01. | :20:06. | |
competent at the heart of government. The increased turnout at | :20:07. | :20:09. | |
the polls shows that the public were very tuned into the discussion. | :20:10. | :20:19. | |
Final sentence. We cannot have a kind of power-sharing he is talking | :20:20. | :20:25. | |
about, when you have diktats about who heads up the DUP in government. | :20:26. | :20:28. | |
We have heard a lot from Sinn Fein over the last couple of weeks. He is | :20:29. | :20:32. | |
entitled to have a negotiating position. I hear lots coming from | :20:33. | :20:42. | |
Sinn Fein about respect, but they are not respecting the mandate that | :20:43. | :20:45. | |
the DUP has received. There are other people at the table who have | :20:46. | :20:50. | |
mandate as well. Claire Hanna, you had a strong performance in the | :20:51. | :20:54. | |
SDLP, stronger than people were expecting, perhaps more than you | :20:55. | :20:58. | |
were expecting. You kept the 12 seats. What do you make of the | :20:59. | :21:02. | |
difficulties with the two main parties in terms of whether or not | :21:03. | :21:07. | |
it is going to be possible, giving the positions they have backed | :21:08. | :21:09. | |
themselves into, it seems to me, whether Stormont can function again | :21:10. | :21:18. | |
in the short-term? We're sitting without a budget or a Brexit plan. | :21:19. | :21:22. | |
The two parties beside me did get the largest mandate. Is this a lot | :21:23. | :21:28. | |
of bluff and bluster this morning? We need to know which of these | :21:29. | :21:33. | |
issues is red hot and so on. It is fair to say that Arlene Foster was | :21:34. | :21:38. | |
the name that came up on most of the doorsteps we knocked on. Not in a | :21:39. | :21:43. | |
positive way? Absolute disrespect for anybody who did not share her | :21:44. | :21:48. | |
view, whether in Brexit or identity issues. People will take it... Find | :21:49. | :21:58. | |
it difficult to have her as First Minister. It is up to Arlene Foster | :21:59. | :22:08. | |
and the DUP. People thought it was worth having an election, and we | :22:09. | :22:12. | |
hope that they will look at the bigger picture. That is an issue for | :22:13. | :22:18. | |
that party to decide. Can I ask you this? Would you take a seat in the | :22:19. | :22:28. | |
Executive? We're going into government in May. We are not up | :22:29. | :22:36. | |
for, take it or leave it, here are the scraps. You would want to be in | :22:37. | :22:41. | |
the Executive, that things need to change? Absolutely. Some of the | :22:42. | :22:46. | |
reforms have become academic in terms of the DUP not being able to | :22:47. | :22:49. | |
throw petitions of concern around everywhere they want to. In May, and | :22:50. | :22:55. | |
over the last few years, there were issues we try to bring through the | :22:56. | :22:58. | |
Executive and put into the programme for government and we were rebuffed | :22:59. | :23:02. | |
by the two parties, who did not want to negotiate. Secondly, as is well | :23:03. | :23:06. | |
documented, we did not have access to the same information. Decisions | :23:07. | :23:11. | |
were made by the two large parties in advance. We are for it but we | :23:12. | :23:14. | |
will not have the power excluding government that we had for a lot of | :23:15. | :23:22. | |
the last ten years. Robin Swann, it is fair to say that it was nothing | :23:23. | :23:30. | |
short of a disaster? I don't fix. We only had three months to work in the | :23:31. | :23:34. | |
Executive. We were only there for a short amount of time. We were | :23:35. | :23:41. | |
becoming effective. The voters passed their judgment on Thursday, | :23:42. | :23:45. | |
and they did not look favourably on the Ulster Unionist Party. And like | :23:46. | :23:50. | |
it or not, Mike Nesbitt has fallen on his sword. The voters increased | :23:51. | :23:56. | |
our vote and a percentage vote on Thursday as well. You say he fell on | :23:57. | :24:06. | |
his sword, but he showed the character of leadership in his | :24:07. | :24:12. | |
utility, taking the ultimate decision, he said the buck stopped | :24:13. | :24:21. | |
with him. He said he would not go any further because you across | :24:22. | :24:23. | |
possibility for the leadership. Someone else has to take up the | :24:24. | :24:29. | |
mantle. And then Mike Nesbitt will move on to pastures new, and we have | :24:30. | :24:39. | |
-- we had a conversation on the election night, you told me it would | :24:40. | :24:48. | |
be up to Mrs Swan as to whether or not your name would be in the hat. | :24:49. | :24:52. | |
What was her decision? I've spoken to her another times. Is the first | :24:53. | :25:01. | |
time I seen her in a number of weeks. She will have about at our | :25:02. | :25:09. | |
AGM on the 8th of April. She has a lot of power! If my name is on the | :25:10. | :25:14. | |
ballot paper, I hope she will be voting for me. Is that a distinct | :25:15. | :25:18. | |
possibility? Let's be honest, uni have ten people to choose from, some | :25:19. | :25:28. | |
of them are only just in the door. There is a misconception out there. | :25:29. | :25:36. | |
Jenny might. Who knows? It could be somebody else. It is more than | :25:37. | :25:40. | |
likely to be of the SMB team. You're not ruling yourself up? I'm not at | :25:41. | :25:46. | |
this stage. You will have a lot of work to do if you are taking the | :25:47. | :25:50. | |
reigns over from Mike Nesbitt, because it was a disappointing | :25:51. | :25:52. | |
performance. You will not argue with that, will you? I will not argue. | :25:53. | :25:57. | |
But we did have some good results. Jon Stewart took a seat of Sinn | :25:58. | :26:04. | |
Fein. The number of constituencies where we were coming in... We could | :26:05. | :26:12. | |
be looking at Michael Henderson in south Belfast. The reality is it was | :26:13. | :26:17. | |
a mighty seat Assembly. We are there as the sixth candidate in a number | :26:18. | :26:24. | |
of constituencies. It is case of increasing that vote. In my | :26:25. | :26:31. | |
constituency, we increased our first preference vote by 36%. A solid | :26:32. | :26:37. | |
performance by Alliance, you had eight seats, and you held onto | :26:38. | :26:44. | |
those, and your vote was up 2%. As I made the point earlier, the number | :26:45. | :26:49. | |
of people voting was up substantially. How percentage was | :26:50. | :26:54. | |
also up, today is the highest since 1987. Regardless of the vote being | :26:55. | :26:58. | |
up, how share bid was also increased, which is significant. | :26:59. | :27:02. | |
Mixed messages as far as the middle ground. You're pleased with that. I | :27:03. | :27:09. | |
don't think there is mixed messages in the middle ground. That is not | :27:10. | :27:15. | |
fair. If you include the Ulster Unionist Party as part of the middle | :27:16. | :27:18. | |
ground... You can't, they were part of the hammering that Unionism took. | :27:19. | :27:25. | |
If you look at the middle ground in terms of the Greens, ourselves and | :27:26. | :27:31. | |
so on, we held our ground and increased our overall proportional | :27:32. | :27:32. | |
representation at the Assembly. I think those parties that are not | :27:33. | :27:38. | |
aligned did better than the Unionist parties. I don't think you can lump | :27:39. | :27:40. | |
that together. I think the differential turnout did benefit | :27:41. | :27:46. | |
nationalists parties, and the STL be benefited from that. Because Sinn | :27:47. | :27:50. | |
Fein got their vote out. Arlene Foster is to thank for that. As far | :27:51. | :27:56. | |
as the future of your party is concerned, you're part of the | :27:57. | :28:01. | |
opposition last time, but not the official opposition. Would you want | :28:02. | :28:05. | |
to be part of that, or would you like the Ulster Unionist 's and SDLP | :28:06. | :28:10. | |
to be part of that with you, or will you be in a minority as far as the | :28:11. | :28:19. | |
official opposition be concerned? We will see what happens. There is no | :28:20. | :28:22. | |
indication that it is possible to get an Executive. I think one thing | :28:23. | :28:27. | |
we've learned from this election is people digging in around | :28:28. | :28:30. | |
personalities is a bad choice. If the DUP do not realise that now, | :28:31. | :28:34. | |
they will never realise that. If you look back with the benefit of high | :28:35. | :28:40. | |
-- of hindsight, people would have preferred a step down by Arlene | :28:41. | :28:45. | |
Foster in December brother than the note down in the election. That is | :28:46. | :28:53. | |
not what happened. No, but to dig in around personalities is the wrong | :28:54. | :29:00. | |
route to take. The public see the opportunity for power-sharing to be | :29:01. | :29:02. | |
restored, for progressive politics in this Assembly. The addition of | :29:03. | :29:07. | |
concern is not theoretical, it needs to be addressed, it can still be | :29:08. | :29:11. | |
abused in its current form and that needs to stop. There is the | :29:12. | :29:15. | |
opportunity for us to move forward on a whole host of issues. The | :29:16. | :29:21. | |
public will judge anyone, including Sinn Fein, harshly if they do not | :29:22. | :29:25. | |
take the opportunity presented to make that deliver for them. You are | :29:26. | :29:32. | |
a former party leader, for a time, served as Justice Minister, and the | :29:33. | :29:35. | |
decision was made not to do that in the previous short mandate and went | :29:36. | :29:40. | |
to Claire Sugden instead. To you like the sound of Naomi Long as | :29:41. | :29:43. | |
Justice Minister? You could be offered it. | :29:44. | :29:48. | |
We are not interested whether it goes elsewhere, we are interested in | :29:49. | :29:55. | |
the quality of government we get. We were clear the basis on which we | :29:56. | :29:59. | |
were willing to participate in government and have been willing to | :30:00. | :30:02. | |
pass it in spades on previous occasions where those conditions | :30:03. | :30:06. | |
were met. They would not be met. What we found actually with the | :30:07. | :30:10. | |
collapse of the executive was our estimation of how that executive | :30:11. | :30:13. | |
would play out, it will be dominated by the DUP, they wouldn't show | :30:14. | :30:18. | |
respect, it was proven to be correct. Just briefly, you must have | :30:19. | :30:23. | |
a sense whether you'd like to be inside the executive all out | :30:24. | :30:28. | |
criticising it? What's your hunch? It is not about hunch is, it is | :30:29. | :30:32. | |
fact, if the executive is willing to be progressive and deliver on the | :30:33. | :30:36. | |
issues we are concerned about and to be a proper executive, we would | :30:37. | :30:39. | |
consider if there were opportunities to be part of it. If there are not, | :30:40. | :30:45. | |
we are quite happy to sit in opposition and to do that job | :30:46. | :30:50. | |
effectively. I think we were effective, despite not being in | :30:51. | :30:56. | |
official opposition. Simon Hamilton, D you fancy it at this stage a | :30:57. | :31:01. | |
return to a grand coalition that had four or five parties involved, it | :31:02. | :31:05. | |
would be better than the DUP, better for Sinn Fein because some of the | :31:06. | :31:10. | |
sharp differences might be blurred and little bits in future if that | :31:11. | :31:14. | |
were the case? Would you rather have everybody inside the tent rather | :31:15. | :31:19. | |
than some of them out causing huge trouble? It is a matter for other | :31:20. | :31:23. | |
parties... I know it is, I'm asking you what you think. It may be seen | :31:24. | :31:29. | |
strange as we said here now at the last couple of months to see we had | :31:30. | :31:36. | |
Sinn Fein and the DUP, they had been working quite effectively in | :31:37. | :31:40. | |
government. But it fell apart in December in spectacular fashion. | :31:41. | :31:45. | |
That's why I qualified my remarks. It is a matter for other parties | :31:46. | :31:49. | |
whether they want to join the executive, but what we want to do, | :31:50. | :31:55. | |
whether there are two parties, how many in the executive, if we can get | :31:56. | :31:59. | |
it up and running, we have to get back to that effective delivery, | :32:00. | :32:02. | |
that more joined up approach we were taken before it fell apart. That is | :32:03. | :32:07. | |
the most important thing. People recognise progress had been made, we | :32:08. | :32:12. | |
were working closer. That is a tall order, just say it won't make it | :32:13. | :32:17. | |
happen. You can't waive your magic wand and see all that has been said | :32:18. | :32:25. | |
in the past weeks. There are three things the government has a say, set | :32:26. | :32:30. | |
a budget, have a plan for Brexit and sustain themselves. You didn't do | :32:31. | :32:35. | |
any of them. I am not saying from December onwards it was a wonderful | :32:36. | :32:41. | |
success, but up until then... The wheels came off the cart. There was | :32:42. | :32:50. | |
a piece that said... It was job only executive achievement, it was an | :32:51. | :32:54. | |
opinion piece. We need to get back to that. Regardless of how many are | :32:55. | :33:00. | |
in the executive, we have to deliver on what matters to the people. Jobs | :33:01. | :33:07. | |
and health education. The electorate have retained a recipe for | :33:08. | :33:10. | |
power-sharing as envisaged under the terms. Sinn Fein wants to see | :33:11. | :33:17. | |
power-sharing back at Stormont? There are people who think perhaps | :33:18. | :33:21. | |
Sinn Fein privately has the view that direct rule might be better and | :33:22. | :33:26. | |
it might deliver on some of those... You will scotch that? I want it | :33:27. | :33:34. | |
removed completely. I want power-sharing returner, more powers | :33:35. | :33:37. | |
given to the Assembly and the executive to run government. There a | :33:38. | :33:41. | |
responsibility on all the parties around this table to enter the | :33:42. | :33:46. | |
executive and share power together. It is our responsibility... There | :33:47. | :33:55. | |
was leaking of executive papers... Not by us. Let me finish. One of the | :33:56. | :34:00. | |
complaints as they didn't get the papers. The Ulster Unionist parties | :34:01. | :34:13. | |
are on the middle ground, I'm trying to get my head around that comment. | :34:14. | :34:17. | |
If you look at the landscape and Sinn Fein is at one end, the DUP at | :34:18. | :34:22. | |
the other, it is not reasonable to talk about the middle ground as the | :34:23. | :34:27. | |
other parties. We are at the end that's aboard equality and respect | :34:28. | :34:32. | |
for all our citizens. I will state that. That is what our politics is | :34:33. | :34:38. | |
based on. The three parties beside me, two of them, never supported the | :34:39. | :34:44. | |
budget in ten years. There is a responsibility on all those who | :34:45. | :34:47. | |
enter the executive to work the executive. How do you respond to | :34:48. | :34:57. | |
that? Hang on. Executive papers were leaked and the SDLP never voted for | :34:58. | :35:02. | |
a budget, even though you had administrators in your executive. | :35:03. | :35:08. | |
You can't have it both ways. You can. You can't. We were out. All of | :35:09. | :35:13. | |
the criticisms we made of the executive over the last two and a | :35:14. | :35:17. | |
half terms have been borne out. We said there was a lack of delivery, | :35:18. | :35:22. | |
corruption, power exclusion. Sinn Frain agreed avers, despite telling | :35:23. | :35:30. | |
us it was just sour grapes but ten years -- agreed with us. I think it | :35:31. | :35:37. | |
say we also have a mandate and shouldn't expect to go in and get | :35:38. | :35:41. | |
crumbs from the mandate, little bits and pieces of information and not | :35:42. | :35:47. | |
have any... It is fair to say everyone will look at the Assembly | :35:48. | :35:51. | |
and seat two blocks of a third on the side and one block in the centre | :35:52. | :35:56. | |
ground. I think that was borne out in the transfers that helped achieve | :35:57. | :36:00. | |
a lot of those seats in that middle third, they came from all across | :36:01. | :36:06. | |
acute unity and chose to people. Robin Swann, if you would a leader | :36:07. | :36:11. | |
of Unionist party, which you want to be in the executive or part of the | :36:12. | :36:14. | |
opposition? You wouldn't be Leader of the Opposition, would you want to | :36:15. | :36:19. | |
be part of the opposition criticising the new executive? If | :36:20. | :36:25. | |
this is the future government, this is what we will the exchange we | :36:26. | :36:32. | |
had... Finish the sentence. If this is a future government, there is no | :36:33. | :36:38. | |
hope. If you are part of it, you might get them to behave better. | :36:39. | :36:43. | |
What we saw in the past was those withholding information, a budget | :36:44. | :36:47. | |
not functioning, it was used to punish the smaller parties that were | :36:48. | :36:52. | |
in the executive. The health minister never saw any additional | :36:53. | :36:56. | |
money is coming to help. When the DUP took over help there were ?430 | :36:57. | :37:05. | |
million... 20 million withheld. Forgive me for wanting to speak on | :37:06. | :37:09. | |
their behalf, but it might just think everyone needs to grow up | :37:10. | :37:13. | |
around the table a little bit. Those who criticise the way the bigger | :37:14. | :37:19. | |
bodies behave, but themselves are not beyond criticism. Everyone is | :37:20. | :37:22. | |
talking about things being done differently. Is net everyone who | :37:23. | :37:29. | |
need to do things differently? -- isn't it. We did support the budget | :37:30. | :37:36. | |
in the executive. When we got the information in advance, got the | :37:37. | :37:40. | |
opportunity to scrutinise it and negotiate our position. When the | :37:41. | :37:43. | |
budget was dropped on our table half an hour before the vote in the | :37:44. | :37:48. | |
Assembly, we didn't. Why would we? Who in their right mind would be | :37:49. | :37:53. | |
bounced into accepting it, a budget they had no part in shaping? What we | :37:54. | :37:57. | |
have said clearly from the outset, if you want to be partners in | :37:58. | :38:00. | |
government, treat them like partners. If you want to treat | :38:01. | :38:05. | |
people like they aren't your equal, then forget it, because we won't | :38:06. | :38:15. | |
be... What happens next is? Budget process in 1998 saw the budget | :38:16. | :38:21. | |
brought to the Assembly, put through scrutiny committees, voted on, | :38:22. | :38:25. | |
change and amended at four different stages. Not simply presented as a | :38:26. | :38:29. | |
done deal. That is where this executive needs to mandate. Sinn | :38:30. | :38:37. | |
Fein and the DUP carved up the decisions outside the room, walked | :38:38. | :38:40. | |
in, push them through, that is no way to run a government. I want to | :38:41. | :38:45. | |
start looking back and start looking forward. We have a couple minutes | :38:46. | :38:50. | |
left. James Brokenshire said there will be talks process sooner than | :38:51. | :38:57. | |
later. Let me ask you, John, it looks like the man in the driving | :38:58. | :39:02. | |
seat to move that process board is James Brokenshire, but you said he | :39:03. | :39:07. | |
wasn't an honest broker. Will you be at the talks? He will be at the | :39:08. | :39:11. | |
talks, but he's not there to check, he is there as a player. He is part | :39:12. | :39:16. | |
of the problem, so he's got to be part of the solution. His commentary | :39:17. | :39:20. | |
in the months leading up, in relation to Brexit, they have all | :39:21. | :39:26. | |
worsen the problems we face in our society. He has issued the | :39:27. | :39:31. | |
invitation is... Whether he issues invitations are not, there will be | :39:32. | :39:37. | |
talks. So you will be boycotting the talks? The God he has to get it | :39:38. | :39:43. | |
clear that he's not there as an independent -- he has to get it | :39:44. | :39:53. | |
clear in his head. We need to deliver... I do believe it can be | :39:54. | :40:03. | |
delivered. You are prepared to compromise on that if necessary? We | :40:04. | :40:07. | |
are prepared to work on what people from Northern Ireland one, a | :40:08. | :40:11. | |
functioning Assembly that is delivering on issues that are | :40:12. | :40:17. | |
important with him. Claire Hanna, will you be there? Of course. He has | :40:18. | :40:22. | |
not got the best interest of Northern Ireland regarding Brexit, | :40:23. | :40:27. | |
and he has been an activist. I hope he will have the self-awareness to | :40:28. | :40:31. | |
exclude himself. If you sending me e-mails out and issuing invitations, | :40:32. | :40:35. | |
of course we will be participating. We desperately want things to work. | :40:36. | :40:40. | |
Can they be made to work which marked the clock is ticking. Of | :40:41. | :40:44. | |
course they can be made to a parties, the right attitude. Robin | :40:45. | :40:51. | |
Swann? We will be at the talks. Will Mike Nesbitt rerunning it? No. What | :40:52. | :41:02. | |
is his role? Mike as party leader until the AGM, so he will be there. | :41:03. | :41:07. | |
There was a goal from Danny Kennedy to move the process back a little | :41:08. | :41:12. | |
bit because you got an annual meeting up soon, it might bounce you | :41:13. | :41:15. | |
into a quick decision. Should you take your time and think about it? | :41:16. | :41:22. | |
Our AGM is the 9th of April and that is pencilled in. Naomi Long, what is | :41:23. | :41:28. | |
your view on talks? You said you didn't like James Brokenshire's | :41:29. | :41:35. | |
talks. We have to get around the table and make it work, because it | :41:36. | :41:41. | |
will be James Brokenshire in charge, and it ever there was an argument | :41:42. | :41:45. | |
why devolution needs to work, it is because the current man is not an | :41:46. | :41:50. | |
impartial player when it comes to politics. | :41:51. | :41:51. | |
Well, the focus now is on whether or not | :41:52. | :41:58. | |
the newly-elected Assembly can produce a government. | :41:59. | :42:01. | |
The Secretary of State, James Brokenshire, | :42:02. | :42:03. | |
and the Irish Foreign Minister, Charlie Flanagan, have both pledged | :42:04. | :42:06. | |
to work with the parties - and Mr Brokenshire made a short | :42:07. | :42:08. | |
I just want to make a short statement. This week's election has | :42:09. | :42:25. | |
demonstrated the clear desire by the overwhelming majority of people in | :42:26. | :42:28. | |
Northern Ireland for inclusive devolved government. And I | :42:29. | :42:32. | |
congratulate all those who'd been elected. Everyone now has a shared | :42:33. | :42:39. | |
responsibility to engage intensively in the short days available to us to | :42:40. | :42:44. | |
establish a strong and stable administration. Northern Ireland has | :42:45. | :42:50. | |
made great strides forward over the past two decades, and all others | :42:51. | :42:55. | |
must continue this work of building a stable, peaceful and prosperous | :42:56. | :42:57. | |
Northern Ireland that works for everyone, based on the strong and | :42:58. | :43:04. | |
solid foundations of the Belfast agreement, the Good Friday Agreement | :43:05. | :43:08. | |
and its successors. It is with this positive intent that the government | :43:09. | :43:13. | |
's approach as the days ahead. I'll be speaking to party leaders later | :43:14. | :43:17. | |
today and remaining in close contact with the Irish government. | :43:18. | :43:19. | |
The Secretary of State re-iterating his commitment to devolution. | :43:20. | :43:21. | |
And I'm joined now by a member of the previous Executive, | :43:22. | :43:24. | |
the newly re-elected Independent MLA Claire Sugden. | :43:25. | :43:30. | |
Congratulations to you first of all. It was a good performance, your vote | :43:31. | :43:38. | |
was up about 1600 first preferences on last maple top how do you account | :43:39. | :43:45. | |
for it? Was it your high profile? I have a very strong support within my | :43:46. | :43:50. | |
own constituency. I've spent the past three years since becoming an | :43:51. | :43:54. | |
MP getting out and no my constituents. I am delighted with my | :43:55. | :44:01. | |
performance, 50% up on last year. Hopefully we can see how we will | :44:02. | :44:05. | |
take the company board. Your decision to go into the executive | :44:06. | :44:09. | |
worked in your favour because it looks like it didn't work in the | :44:10. | :44:14. | |
favour of, for example, the Ulster Unionist party, a lot of people | :44:15. | :44:17. | |
wondered whether something similar would happen to you in terms of your | :44:18. | :44:23. | |
decision? But not so? I think my constituents were content I took the | :44:24. | :44:26. | |
role because they saw the opportunity for them that I would | :44:27. | :44:31. | |
have a seat at the table so I could influence decisions. You did admit | :44:32. | :44:39. | |
to meet in an interview last week that you were very sorely let down | :44:40. | :44:44. | |
by the DUP and Sinn Fein, they invited you into the executive, they | :44:45. | :44:47. | |
couldn't function without you in the role of justice minister. They said | :44:48. | :44:51. | |
they wanted to work in partnership, the whole thing collapsed when the | :44:52. | :44:55. | |
wheels came off the cart in December. And you did say you felt | :44:56. | :44:59. | |
let down. I was let down, they asked me to do a job and it away from me. | :45:00. | :45:06. | |
Of course I was let down. You did make a mistake. You said I have no | :45:07. | :45:11. | |
shopping list, I want to do the right thing to Northern Ireland. | :45:12. | :45:14. | |
Maybe if you'd had had a shopping list and got in and said, I will do | :45:15. | :45:19. | |
this but you got to do this and behave in a certain way. If you had | :45:20. | :45:24. | |
said that and help them to it, maybe we wouldn't have had the election. | :45:25. | :45:36. | |
Hopefully it will benefit me moving forward. If I had the opportunity, I | :45:37. | :45:43. | |
would like to finish the job I started. That remains the case. It | :45:44. | :45:49. | |
cannot just be about you. It has to be about what is right for Northern | :45:50. | :45:56. | |
Ireland overall. It is not just about Claire Sugden's benefit. It is | :45:57. | :46:03. | |
not just about me, and one of the hardest things you can do is stand | :46:04. | :46:08. | |
for the Northern Ireland Assembly as an independent. It is not just about | :46:09. | :46:12. | |
me. Apart from my red assessor, I'm the most experienced person for this | :46:13. | :46:21. | |
job. I will be going into this... It is fair to say that previous to the | :46:22. | :46:26. | |
scandal of RHI, Sinn Fein the DUP and myself were working successfully | :46:27. | :46:31. | |
in government in a way that was unprecedented. I would like to find | :46:32. | :46:34. | |
a way to get back to that space. You would like to be Justice Minister | :46:35. | :46:40. | |
again? Yes. If it is offered to you by Sinn Fein and the DUP, would you | :46:41. | :46:45. | |
not say to them, here is my shopping list, I want you to agree to my | :46:46. | :46:48. | |
terms and conditions and a Petition of Concern. I want you to sign up to | :46:49. | :46:54. | |
an agreement on how you behave in government and working together in | :46:55. | :46:57. | |
partnership. If you don't do that, there is the possibility that the | :46:58. | :47:00. | |
wheels will come off in another eight or ten months? I don't think | :47:01. | :47:07. | |
my telling them to behave and grub will make them do that. What we need | :47:08. | :47:11. | |
to do in these negotiations is work on that relationship between Sinn | :47:12. | :47:14. | |
Fein and the DUP. It was not me that collapse the guy Executive. I | :47:15. | :47:24. | |
thought that that relationship was strong, but clearly it was | :47:25. | :47:26. | |
vulnerable. If we're going to move forward, they need to work on that | :47:27. | :47:35. | |
relationship. What do you make... Do you think this could be made to work | :47:36. | :47:40. | |
in three weeks? Do you get a sense that now the election is over, | :47:41. | :47:44. | |
people trying to get out of the corners that people have painted | :47:45. | :47:52. | |
themselves into? I think during an election to an extent, you take an | :47:53. | :47:55. | |
awful lot of what is said with a pinch of salt. By BMI is that the | :47:56. | :47:59. | |
DUP and Sinn Fein have backed themselves into a corner with the | :48:00. | :48:01. | |
red lines they have suggested. But moving forward this is about them as | :48:02. | :48:09. | |
much as it is about me, it is really about the people of Northern | :48:10. | :48:12. | |
Ireland. I think that that is the message. We have had an increased | :48:13. | :48:17. | |
ten more than ever, so we need people to get back to running the | :48:18. | :48:23. | |
Government, because that is what we pay them for. Where you invited to | :48:24. | :48:31. | |
the talks? He has been in touch, and I am eager to take him up on that. | :48:32. | :48:38. | |
If he said EU, I would like you to be part of this process, you would | :48:39. | :48:41. | |
be there? Of course. We need to find a way forward. It is not about party | :48:42. | :48:46. | |
political interest, not about who is going to take what seats. We have to | :48:47. | :48:52. | |
get our government back up and running. This is about governing for | :48:53. | :48:55. | |
the people of Northern Ireland. It will be messy if James Brokenshire | :48:56. | :49:03. | |
and three smaller parties and yourself, it will be difficult with | :49:04. | :49:07. | |
everyone around the table. I like to think I'm a voice of reason. It is | :49:08. | :49:13. | |
not going to be any less messy with the five of them up as well as the | :49:14. | :49:18. | |
smaller parties and myself. We all need to be part of it because if we | :49:19. | :49:21. | |
can move forward, we will be part of this process. We would not want to | :49:22. | :49:25. | |
be in a situation where the Executive has collapsed again. How | :49:26. | :49:32. | |
politics is fragile. We are still in our infancy. But you remain an | :49:33. | :49:39. | |
optimist? We have do, it is not about us. It is about the people | :49:40. | :49:43. | |
that voted us into these mandates last Thursday. | :49:44. | :49:50. | |
And there were, of course, representatives of three smaller | :49:51. | :49:53. | |
After his election the TUV leader, Jim Allister, said the results | :49:54. | :49:57. | |
showed that unionists now need to rethink their views | :49:58. | :49:59. | |
It is a day when we are seeing Sinn Fein advances, and there is no | :50:00. | :50:14. | |
longer a majority control in the Assembly. That sends a message to | :50:15. | :50:21. | |
the leaders of unionism and the people within it,... There will be | :50:22. | :50:34. | |
asking themselves whether we really want to keep Stormont, at all | :50:35. | :50:43. | |
unionists have to do some hard -- heart searching. | :50:44. | :50:49. | |
Clare Bailey of the Green Party was the last MLA to be elected, | :50:50. | :50:52. | |
with the South Belfast declaration made in the early hours | :50:53. | :50:54. | |
Her party leader, Steven Agnew, told our Political Correspondent, | :50:55. | :50:57. | |
Stephen Walker, that the key priority now is agreeing | :50:58. | :50:59. | |
We will go back with a good green team, both here and in south | :51:00. | :51:14. | |
Belfast. What I will be saying to all politicians, we have got to | :51:15. | :51:16. | |
focus on the fact that those people or unprotected notice for their jobs | :51:17. | :51:21. | |
will stop we need to get that security for those people who are | :51:22. | :51:24. | |
waiting on a budget being agreed, and their jobs being confirmed. That | :51:25. | :51:30. | |
should focus minds. And the time for the political power play is done, we | :51:31. | :51:33. | |
need to get the Government back up and running. You are small party. | :51:34. | :51:37. | |
People across Northern Ireland, people have backed the DUP and Sinn | :51:38. | :51:40. | |
Fein to make them the biggest parties, backed them in their | :51:41. | :51:44. | |
thousands. Why do green votes matter? There thousands of people | :51:45. | :51:53. | |
who voted Green. It is important that everybody has a stake in our | :51:54. | :51:54. | |
politics. People Before Profit always knew | :51:55. | :51:55. | |
the reduction in seats would likely mean Eamonn McCann | :51:56. | :51:58. | |
was going to lose his Gerry Carroll retained his | :51:59. | :52:00. | |
seat in west Belfast - he defended that party's stance | :52:01. | :52:03. | |
on Brexit, which became a part We were close to the youth from a | :52:04. | :52:12. | |
left-wing standpoint. Look at what they have done to the people in the | :52:13. | :52:16. | |
South of Ireland, they demanded that they pay water charges, demanded | :52:17. | :52:25. | |
that they have job losses. People were ignored in graceful stop the U | :52:26. | :52:29. | |
reticence austerity and the establishment, and People Before | :52:30. | :52:32. | |
Profit are opposed to it for those reasons. There was a lot of | :52:33. | :52:37. | |
scaremongering and this representation of our organisation, | :52:38. | :52:39. | |
particularly in west Belfast by the established parties. But people | :52:40. | :52:44. | |
voted for Sinn Fein, there was an increase across the North because | :52:45. | :52:48. | |
people thought that by voting for Sinn Fein, that is the best way to | :52:49. | :52:51. | |
stand up against corruption as they see it, stand up against the DUP. | :52:52. | :52:56. | |
But it will be critical happens in the next few weeks. There was going | :52:57. | :53:03. | |
to be a call for heads to roll within RHI as well. | :53:04. | :53:05. | |
Gerry Carroll, looking forward to the next few weeks. | :53:06. | :53:07. | |
Well, it's been described as a watershed election by Gerry Adams. | :53:08. | :53:10. | |
Let's see what my guests of the day make of it all. | :53:11. | :53:13. | |
I'm joined by Patricia McBride, Professor Pete Shirlow, | :53:14. | :53:14. | |
Nicholas Whyte and our Political editor Mark Devenport. | :53:15. | :53:17. | |
You are all welcome to the programme. Thank you for being here. | :53:18. | :53:22. | |
I want to tease out your thoughts in terms of what you heard with regard | :53:23. | :53:27. | |
to the five main parties earlier in the programme. Did you see any signs | :53:28. | :53:33. | |
of John O'Dowd, Simon Hamilton, there are presented of Sinn Fein and | :53:34. | :53:39. | |
the DUP trying to find a way to make things happen in a positive way in | :53:40. | :53:44. | |
the next three weeks? I think the tone has been fairly positive in | :53:45. | :53:47. | |
terms of the sort of mood music from both of them saying they want to | :53:48. | :53:52. | |
come to this, in terms of trying to put Humpty Dumpty back together | :53:53. | :53:56. | |
again. He said there was a recipe for devolution here, and Simon | :53:57. | :54:02. | |
Hamilton was saying that the DUP wants to make things work. What we | :54:03. | :54:05. | |
did not get down to was any obvious sign of compromise on this clear | :54:06. | :54:09. | |
problem or Sinn Fein stipulating that they would not be supporting | :54:10. | :54:15. | |
Arlene Foster as First Minister. Under the current system, they don't | :54:16. | :54:18. | |
have to vote for her as First Minister, but my understanding that | :54:19. | :54:25. | |
Sinn Fein will not nominate their Debuchy First Minister if Arlene | :54:26. | :54:31. | |
Foster is First Minister. We know there is the RHI scandal which Sinn | :54:32. | :54:36. | |
Fein wants to conclude, but that is due to go on for at least six | :54:37. | :54:41. | |
months, maybe longer. I saw Gerry Adams talking again about the fact | :54:42. | :54:45. | |
they had originally look for a preliminary report, but Sinn Fein | :54:46. | :54:56. | |
phone's Minister said that it was not an option. It is hard to square | :54:57. | :55:01. | |
that circle at the moment. We will watch that. Let's talk about Arlene | :55:02. | :55:04. | |
Foster and her leadership and how damaged she may or may not be by the | :55:05. | :55:09. | |
result. Simon Hamilton had a stout defence of her performance, saying | :55:10. | :55:16. | |
that her demise was exaggerated. On the radio last night, if she thought | :55:17. | :55:21. | |
that someone just add aside to let someone else be nominated, the party | :55:22. | :55:25. | |
would back her decision. Does that mean that those conversations are | :55:26. | :55:29. | |
happening, always very danger in the circumstances that people begin to | :55:30. | :55:35. | |
exaggerate? Conversations will happen for real when people get up | :55:36. | :55:38. | |
to Stormont and when I can have their proper internal conversations. | :55:39. | :55:42. | |
I'm sure the phone has been buzzing. There are some within the DUP who | :55:43. | :55:45. | |
feel sore about this, we have seen ten of their team out of a job, and | :55:46. | :55:51. | |
this could have been avoided if she had stood aside, Mike Peter Robinson | :55:52. | :56:00. | |
in the winter period. There is some difficulty getting their heads | :56:01. | :56:03. | |
around this. At the moment, I don't see anyone watching a coup against, | :56:04. | :56:10. | |
but there will be a discussion around the option of a caretaker | :56:11. | :56:15. | |
First Minister. Someone like Simon Hamilton? He will be an obvious | :56:16. | :56:20. | |
person. He was associated with the renewable heat initiative in | :56:21. | :56:25. | |
relation to being an economy job and in relation to pushing through | :56:26. | :56:28. | |
things like the cost controls, but he was not associated with it in the | :56:29. | :56:33. | |
earlier days. He might be seen as someone who will be a compromise | :56:34. | :56:40. | |
candidate. At the same time, Arlene Foster has very much said, I have | :56:41. | :56:42. | |
done nothing wrong, she stood against this, and she might feel | :56:43. | :56:47. | |
that this will be an intolerable loss of face if she gave way to what | :56:48. | :56:53. | |
has been a Sinn Fein demand. OK. Do you think Arlene Foster has been | :56:54. | :56:57. | |
damaged by this result? Similar to when Peter Robinson stood down, | :56:58. | :57:05. | |
there is a fundamental problem for her that this is why they came out. | :57:06. | :57:13. | |
The type of leadership she offered, she emboldened nationalism to some | :57:14. | :57:20. | |
extent, leading us to where we are today. That vote was always there, | :57:21. | :57:23. | |
it just needed something to trigger it. That is a new situation we're | :57:24. | :57:29. | |
in. The problem will always be 50 plus one. This has brought them | :57:30. | :57:35. | |
close to that. Very much she has to consider what Unionist leadership | :57:36. | :57:40. | |
will be because there are two separate things. I think that Sinn | :57:41. | :57:49. | |
Fein will... They will call for a border poll. There will be support | :57:50. | :57:56. | |
for unification. She has been increasingly careful here, because | :57:57. | :57:59. | |
if she does anything like she did before the election which emboldens | :58:00. | :58:03. | |
nationalism, that border poll will be incredibly problematic. This | :58:04. | :58:10. | |
election has shown is that Unionism has to realise the society in which | :58:11. | :58:14. | |
we now live. If you look at the census and you look at people over | :58:15. | :58:19. | |
the age of 18, the question over the last four or five years has been, | :58:20. | :58:26. | |
why is it so flat? It wasn't annoyed, it did not feel as if it | :58:27. | :58:35. | |
was being treated as second-class citizenry. They do feel that now. It | :58:36. | :58:43. | |
was not about the bigger issue, the question has changed and will be a | :58:44. | :58:48. | |
big shift in that over the next couple of years. One of the | :58:49. | :58:53. | |
interesting things is that the strategy for this election when you | :58:54. | :58:57. | |
are saying, Sinn Fein can't be the biggest party, you must back the | :58:58. | :59:01. | |
DUP. A hard strategy might work in that situation. The border poll will | :59:02. | :59:08. | |
not be immediate, but the strategy has to be different. You have two | :59:09. | :59:17. | |
reassure people who might be slightly nationalists, which are | :59:18. | :59:31. | |
diametrically opposed to the strategy we have just seen played | :59:32. | :59:41. | |
out. There is a drive that people are talking about their for a border | :59:42. | :59:47. | |
poll. I would not describe nationalism has emboldened as Alvin | :59:48. | :59:51. | |
iced. There have been a series of events over the past number of | :59:52. | :59:56. | |
years, the RHI is, Nam, red sky, a number of scandals which the DUP | :59:57. | :00:01. | |
have had falling at their feet. There have been issues around | :00:02. | :00:05. | |
equality, Irish language, petitions of concern, it is about nationalism | :00:06. | :00:13. | |
and Republicans of all shades, saying, this is not how we will | :00:14. | :00:19. | |
accept how the governorate is run. John O'Dowd made clear, Harold | :00:20. | :00:25. | |
desired outcome is the restoration of a dissolved Assembly and | :00:26. | :00:26. | |
Executive at Stormont. That is the back mechanism for | :00:27. | :00:36. | |
ensuring the quality issues that we are driving forward delivered. The | :00:37. | :00:40. | |
idea of a border poll is premature. You see Sinn Fein saying in the next | :00:41. | :00:47. | |
of time and this is about developing reassurance of the structure works, | :00:48. | :00:50. | |
people are saved, equality is something that goes across the | :00:51. | :00:54. | |
entire community, it is not simply a Republican issue. But it is seismic | :00:55. | :00:59. | |
that we are going into a new Assembly. Almost 100 years since | :01:00. | :01:04. | |
partition, where there's not a Unionist majority. In political | :01:05. | :01:08. | |
terms. That is frightening. That is challenged Sinn Fein, to not turn | :01:09. | :01:14. | |
fear in the anger and to try and harness a positive attitude. The | :01:15. | :01:22. | |
SDLP likewise should not see the number of seats sustained, should | :01:23. | :01:25. | |
not see that as an endorsement of their strategy of going into | :01:26. | :01:29. | |
opposition. They should be clearly reading the signals from the | :01:30. | :01:32. | |
electorate that they were frustrated at the lack of progress in terms of | :01:33. | :01:36. | |
equality, in terms of addressing issues around scandals. Nicholas, | :01:37. | :01:42. | |
there are lots of things we can extrapolate from the figures, but | :01:43. | :01:45. | |
something I wanted to tease out slightly. We've heard a lot of chat | :01:46. | :01:50. | |
over the last 48 hours about a mixed message and, different messages | :01:51. | :01:55. | |
coming out. How should we read it? Mark has talked about differential | :01:56. | :01:59. | |
turnout. What is it, and how does it play into what has happened in terms | :02:00. | :02:05. | |
of voting holding firmly but not producing the outcome, Sinn Fein | :02:06. | :02:12. | |
vote up, galvanise? The SDLP seemingly doing well in the middle | :02:13. | :02:17. | |
ground, Alliance doing well, Ulster Unionist doing badly. Several things | :02:18. | :02:20. | |
are happening, turnover is up everywhere. In east Belfast, most in | :02:21. | :02:30. | |
some of the border constituencies. And by 18% across-the-board. By ten | :02:31. | :02:35. | |
points, which is an 18% increase. That in itself is remarkable. We had | :02:36. | :02:43. | |
decreasing turnouts, now it is clear there new voters were not Unionist | :02:44. | :02:48. | |
voters. Sinn Fein got a lot of those new boat, the Alliance party got a | :02:49. | :02:52. | |
lot. The Unionists on a whole did not -- vote. Now, the SDLP | :02:53. | :03:01. | |
performance slightly flattered to deceive in terms of the numbers of | :03:02. | :03:06. | |
seats they won. It was historically the lowest vote share ever achieved | :03:07. | :03:11. | |
at a Northern Ireland election. They pulled in a few big names. They did, | :03:12. | :03:18. | |
they pulled them in with all seniors transfers. Which is the fascinating | :03:19. | :03:23. | |
thing. Mike Nesbitt said the ball rolling. He said in his | :03:24. | :03:28. | |
constituency, he would beat given his second preference of the SLP, | :03:29. | :03:33. | |
others felt it was in such a good idea. Pat Catley won seat, was that | :03:34. | :03:38. | |
because a transfer? That was precisely because the Ulster | :03:39. | :03:43. | |
Unionists transfers, when they came, went to him as well as a DUP. He | :03:44. | :03:47. | |
also picked up the Sinn Fein as well. And the SLP returned the | :03:48. | :03:58. | |
favour, Rosemary Barton survived. We're looking at those figures | :03:59. | :04:02. | |
played through as far as those transfers are concerned. It is an | :04:03. | :04:05. | |
interesting picture. Maybe nobody was more surprised than Pat Catley. | :04:06. | :04:11. | |
He tried before and failed. The other side of that is a DUP voters | :04:12. | :04:19. | |
in south Belfast seemingly did not transfer to Michael Henderson, he | :04:20. | :04:22. | |
lost the fifth seat to the Green Party. That right, we can no longer | :04:23. | :04:29. | |
treat the blocks as monolithic, there's more tactful picture out. | :04:30. | :04:37. | |
That is valuable, but those. We are looking at the figures come through. | :04:38. | :04:44. | |
Transfers. When the history of this election is written, the word | :04:45. | :04:47. | |
transfer will be in the first sentence, won't it? Yes, because in | :04:48. | :04:52. | |
relation to Mike Nesbitt's comment, it could be argued that it may have | :04:53. | :04:57. | |
ended up costing him the leadership, it does not just because of the | :04:58. | :05:01. | |
whole technical issue of transfers, bid because he hadn't cleared it | :05:02. | :05:05. | |
with his party beforehand and you had him saying something, his | :05:06. | :05:10. | |
candidate saying others. Some people may have fought, here we go again. | :05:11. | :05:15. | |
It may be some voters who are thinking of giving him the number | :05:16. | :05:20. | |
one, hopped across to Alliance, who returned with the same number of | :05:21. | :05:23. | |
seats, which was a strengthening of their position. What about the new | :05:24. | :05:29. | |
leader of the Unionist party, Robert Swan is not ruling himself out. We | :05:30. | :05:36. | |
are still waiting what Mrs Swan has to saved. Steve Aiken says he is | :05:37. | :05:41. | |
thinking about things, Doug Beattie ruled himself out and hesitated, so | :05:42. | :05:49. | |
I wasn't sure if he was, if he was potentially ruin himself back in. | :05:50. | :05:56. | |
Who is there, who do you think the front you have talked about most of | :05:57. | :06:04. | |
them, Robin Swann must be up them, taken them on a more traditional | :06:05. | :06:17. | |
line. This will be a battle, and one fascinating thing they face, Robin | :06:18. | :06:21. | |
Swann said that Tom Elliott is the chief negotiator, but they have to | :06:22. | :06:26. | |
make a decision about whether they take a seat in government. In the | :06:27. | :06:29. | |
talks that will come up between now and April when they pick a new | :06:30. | :06:32. | |
leader. You wonder who will make that call? Lu it will have to be a | :06:33. | :06:40. | |
collective decision, I would have thought. They will honestly be | :06:41. | :06:43. | |
looking at these results and wondering whether their decision to | :06:44. | :06:48. | |
hop into opposition cost them. I think you have to take a step back | :06:49. | :06:52. | |
and think about Mike Nesbitt. He said he stood for a crossed unity | :06:53. | :06:58. | |
nonsectarian boat. He has left the stage. What we have seen in this | :06:59. | :07:05. | |
election -- vote. Those smaller parties are there because they got | :07:06. | :07:10. | |
the fifth seat. We have somebody who tried to change the dynamic of | :07:11. | :07:14. | |
politics. And has left the political stage. What we have this morning | :07:15. | :07:18. | |
with by political parties was rolling and fighting. The two main | :07:19. | :07:21. | |
parties stood on a platform of keeping each other out. One platform | :07:22. | :07:28. | |
per Sinn Fein was we are mistreated, and that but a lot of fire under | :07:29. | :07:32. | |
their campaign. The DUP was, if you vote this way, if you vote for the | :07:33. | :07:38. | |
SDLP you get Gerry Adams. That was that. We have somebody who tried to | :07:39. | :07:46. | |
change it. Which reflects... He was part of a packed with a DUP two | :07:47. | :07:51. | |
years ago. There is a voice, somebody who is still up and said | :07:52. | :07:56. | |
let's reflect, we engage with each other, Protestants and Catholics, | :07:57. | :08:02. | |
Unionists and non-newness, people work in different ways. We socialise | :08:03. | :08:06. | |
in different ways. There is a mismatch between the politics we | :08:07. | :08:10. | |
have, which is driven by the spire and anger and this constitutional | :08:11. | :08:13. | |
issue, which does not reflect part of the society in which we live. One | :08:14. | :08:18. | |
voice for that has now left the stage. I think that is really | :08:19. | :08:21. | |
regrettable. The middle ground has not achieved much. I disagree, I | :08:22. | :08:26. | |
think it is disrespectful to the electorate to say we want people to | :08:27. | :08:31. | |
come and be engaged, but we don't want you to vote that way, we want | :08:32. | :08:35. | |
you to vote in the middle ground and how we tell you. People voted | :08:36. | :08:39. | |
because they were angry, angry either for all the reasons we've | :08:40. | :08:45. | |
talked about. I think the electorate have shown that the opposition has | :08:46. | :08:51. | |
failed. You can't say we only had three Munsey operated, you should | :08:52. | :08:54. | |
never have gone into it if you didn't have a plan, he didn't have | :08:55. | :09:03. | |
an alternative -- three months. You worked with Mike. On a personal | :09:04. | :09:08. | |
level, are you sorry to see him go? I think he is a loss, because he | :09:09. | :09:13. | |
encouraged debate that perhaps that party had never had. And from that | :09:14. | :09:16. | |
point of view, it gave them an opportunity to look at how they were | :09:17. | :09:20. | |
doing, how they were doing business. I fundamentally believe he would | :09:21. | :09:22. | |
have taken them back if he had remained. They didn't lose because | :09:23. | :09:27. | |
they were in opposition, these parties were damaged at the 1998. | :09:28. | :09:35. | |
They lost half of their boats, each lost half of their boats ten, 12 | :09:36. | :09:44. | |
years ago. -- votes. What has damaged the is the dysfunctional | :09:45. | :09:46. | |
relationship between the two main parties in the Assembly, and that | :09:47. | :09:51. | |
dysfunctional Blishen ship work for them in terms of maximising their | :09:52. | :09:58. | |
boats. This is what we have observed -- relationship. What has damaged | :09:59. | :10:06. | |
the Ulster Unionists and the SLP in the first place was a failure to | :10:07. | :10:11. | |
deliver. Which is possibly based on their ablation ship. Interesting | :10:12. | :10:15. | |
stepping back, if the Ulster Unionist don't go to executive and | :10:16. | :10:29. | |
the S Gill P do, -- SDLP, you could be looking at a nationalist | :10:30. | :10:39. | |
majority. Which is intriguing? I would suspect the STL P and alter | :10:40. | :10:43. | |
Unionists one man mark each other, they will either jumping or jump our | :10:44. | :10:49. | |
-- SDLP. We often talk about Sinn Fein's red line. Colonies to word | :10:50. | :10:55. | |
was on record saying he wouldn't join and Arlene Foster led | :10:56. | :11:00. | |
government. But remains a problem. If they both jump out, we get back | :11:01. | :11:13. | |
into that problem. It is four DUP, three Sinn Fein. Alliance could | :11:14. | :11:21. | |
theoretically be offered it. We are in very interesting circumstances. | :11:22. | :11:26. | |
The Unionist lead was 1100 votes. The next leaders will have to answer | :11:27. | :11:31. | |
the question, would you accept the position of Deputy First Minister? | :11:32. | :11:34. | |
That is a fascinating question to leave the programme on. Thank you | :11:35. | :11:36. | |
very much. So that was the Assembly Election | :11:37. | :11:38. | |
2017 - a snap election that saw crocodiles to the fore, | :11:39. | :11:41. | |
and which chewed up and spat I'll be back with lots more | :11:42. | :11:43. | |
on The View on Thursday Until then, we'll leave | :11:44. | :11:47. | |
you with some of the stand-out moments of a memorable | :11:48. | :11:51. | |
couple of days. Something is happening out there, we | :11:52. | :11:59. | |
don't know what it is yet, but we're here to find out. No one could have | :12:00. | :12:08. | |
predicted this ten months ago. Some politicians are going to be very | :12:09. | :12:09. | |
disappointed. It proves a total relevance of | :12:10. | :12:44. | |
social media for a start. You must be feeling better you've got that | :12:45. | :12:47. | |
off your chest. I've been waiting all day. | :12:48. | :13:03. | |
There's also a huge vote of thanks to Martin. Too tired to laugh and to | :13:04. | :13:16. | |
all to cry. So I shall not continue in this position. People are | :13:17. | :13:21. | |
comparing this to blockbusters, how dare they? I resented, my mother | :13:22. | :13:27. | |
resented, my family resented, stop doing it. Can I have a DUP, please, | :13:28. | :13:34. | |
Bob? Is that a crocodile or an alligator? Are you trying to kill | :13:35. | :13:42. | |
me? We have a huge responsibility to ensure we and run from Dublin, from | :13:43. | :13:44. | |
London. CHEERING | :13:45. | :13:51. |